Speaker 1: Now on weekends the Sunday Sweet looking at the stories
Speaker 1: of the week. Time for the Sunday Sweep, where we
Speaker 1: look back at the issues of the week and just
Speaker 1: talk about the body politic here and all around the world.
Speaker 1: And I'm delighted to say that again. The host of
Speaker 1: The Spectator Australia's Fired Will podcast and contributor to gb
Speaker 1: and Sky News, Will Kingston is with us on the
Speaker 1: line from the United Kingdom. But you've been in Oz,
Speaker 1: haven't you?
Speaker 2: Will? Good alek I have. I got back to he
Speaker 2: throw at six am this morning, so yeah, nice, you
Speaker 2: can city for a few weeks and now in Blighty, lovely.
Speaker 1: We might start with the news at the Caterhan early
Speaker 1: yesterday on our show, which was that Donald Trump now
Speaker 1: hiking steel tariffs to fifty percent. He says he plans
Speaker 1: to increase tariffs on foreign steel imports from twenty five percent.
Speaker 1: The doubling of these levies taking effect on June four.
Speaker 1: These could further push up prices for mature or used
Speaker 1: in housing, vehicles and other goods. That adds already to
Speaker 1: our inability to build homes quickly and affordably, and this
Speaker 1: will have impacts all around the world made.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it will. Well, there's always two ways of looking
Speaker 2: at this, the politics of it, and then there's the
Speaker 2: consequences on the politics. Trump's actually got this acronym that's
Speaker 2: being labeled against him now, taco. I don't know if
Speaker 2: you've heard about this. Trump always chickens out, yes, and
Speaker 2: it's actually it's starting to get a bit of traction,
Speaker 2: and it's the kind of thing which Trump would really hate.
Speaker 2: So I do wonder whether if he then goes back
Speaker 2: on these tariffs like he has on some of the others,
Speaker 2: or if there is further judicial pushback, the reputation which
Speaker 2: he wants to cultivate as a strong man could actually
Speaker 2: take a bit of a hit. And we've got those
Speaker 2: midterm elections coming up next year, so there will be
Speaker 2: implications there. That's the politics side. But you're right to
Speaker 2: point out that the reality is with all the other tariffs,
Speaker 2: they will make things more expensive to make, which therefore
Speaker 2: will make things more expensive to buy for consumers. Now,
Speaker 2: if in the long term that this plays out, that
Speaker 2: he can somehow manage to bring more workers back to America,
Speaker 2: well that's hunky dory, but it doesn't change the fact
Speaker 2: that for American consumers and Australian consumers. It's going to
Speaker 2: cost more to buy cars, and that's something which I
Speaker 2: think when we talk about costs of living, that's a
Speaker 2: real problem. Yeah.
Speaker 1: The other point about Trump is, and I have heard
Speaker 1: the taco thing, but he does try to get a deal. Now,
Speaker 1: if he wants, for example, to get an extra hundred
Speaker 1: on something, he might initially go with two hundred. If
Speaker 1: he settles for a hundred, he's got what he originally wants.
Speaker 1: Is that the other way of looking at taco or
Speaker 1: the taco idea.
Speaker 2: Potentially, But this is the thing I struggle with, and
Speaker 2: that is he's at different times given different reasons to tariffs.
Speaker 2: At one time he basically says that it's really just
Speaker 2: a four D chess tactic to try and get trade
Speaker 2: deals with other countries and really get them to lower
Speaker 2: their tariff levels. And at other times he's basically saying, well, no,
Speaker 2: we're going to keep the tariffs forever, and they're a
Speaker 2: way for us to bring workers back to America. And
Speaker 2: those two things are in tension with each other. In fact,
Speaker 2: they're contradictory. So it would actually be helpful if he
Speaker 2: did provide more clarity and what's the real purpose of
Speaker 2: these But that, to your point, is not really the
Speaker 2: Trump mo so time will tell it.
Speaker 1: Will Now I want you to tell me about reform
Speaker 1: in the UK, the Reform Party. This is Nigel Farras
Speaker 1: and I guess, as you well know, mate, in Australian
Speaker 1: politics now the conservative, traditionally center right parties are I
Speaker 1: don't think it's unfair to say turmoil, or at least
Speaker 1: they're having to rebuild and over in the UK was
Speaker 1: seeing Nigel Faraj and his party do very well. I
Speaker 1: don't know if what happens they're necessarily happens here, but
Speaker 1: give us your take on all of this.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think you've hit the nail on the head.
Speaker 2: I would say more than turmoil for the Conservatives in
Speaker 2: the UK and for the Liberal National parties in Australia,
Speaker 2: I think they're both in existential threat under threat. If
Speaker 2: you look at the Conservatives, they basically let the public
Speaker 2: down for fourteen years. Everything they said they would do
Speaker 2: they didn't and as a result of that there is
Speaker 2: a very real chance that they are wiped off the
Speaker 2: electoral at the next election, which would be extraordinary. They
Speaker 2: are the most successful party of any political party in
Speaker 2: modern Western political history, and Reform have capitalized on that.
Speaker 2: The poll of polls which comes out, which is basically
Speaker 2: an amalgamation of all the different polls over the last
Speaker 2: couple of weeks, came out only an hour or so
Speaker 2: ago and it pointed to what would be if an
Speaker 2: election was held tomorrow, a landslide win for Reform, which
Speaker 2: would put Nigel Fargen's Prime minister. And basically, I think
Speaker 2: I think they've got a that over just thirty percent
Speaker 2: of the total vote. I think Labor came in at
Speaker 2: about twenty four the Conservatives boys that if these numbers hold,
Speaker 2: and again keep in mind four years ago a long time,
Speaker 2: but you would see the Conservatives wiped off to face
Speaker 2: the map, you would say, Nigel Farage's prime minisign. You
Speaker 2: would see Labor be dumped after one terming government. And
Speaker 2: I think we'll get to this. But the enduring issue,
Speaker 2: the issue above all else, which is driving this real
Speaker 2: anger amongst electorates is both legal and illegmigration.
Speaker 1: Immigration isn't that interesting? And the center right here, as
Speaker 1: you know, they were talking a big game about reducing
Speaker 1: immigration to nearer the long term averages and I think
Speaker 1: you've only got to look at the ability to get
Speaker 1: around our productivity problem, lack of housing and other infrastructure.
Speaker 1: It seems and it doesn't have to be necessarily forever,
Speaker 1: but it just seems to be common sense. But again
Speaker 1: the liberal National parties went to the people. It ended
Speaker 1: up being the case from many of the likely suspects
Speaker 1: in the commentariat that that was anti anti the Australia,
Speaker 1: that we've become a migrant nation. It led to certain
Speaker 1: groups and Chinese. I often refer to Chinese Australians running
Speaker 1: away from the center right coalition. But it intrigues me
Speaker 1: that this is made about race and culture. It's purely
Speaker 1: here in mathematics. Is it mathematics in England or is
Speaker 1: it more to do.
Speaker 2: With culture, so mathematics the issue? Or on a per
Speaker 2: capita base, its especially been more immigrations Australia than the
Speaker 2: UK in recent years, but the feeling around how the
Speaker 2: culture is changing is worse than the UK. I was
Speaker 2: trying to work it out myself when I was back
Speaker 2: in Sydney a few weeks ago. I think it is
Speaker 2: because the Australian population is more spread out. Therefore the
Speaker 2: effects of immigration are more diluted as opposed to the UK,
Speaker 2: where if you go now to parts of London, if
Speaker 2: you go to parts of Birmingham, to go to parts
Speaker 2: of Newcastle, you do not feel like you're in England.
Speaker 2: And look, there are too many people who say, oh, well,
Speaker 2: it's racist to say that we'll be driving down Edgeway
Speaker 2: roads in the central of London's day and it could
Speaker 2: have been Islamabad. It was absolutely shocking. Now people go like,
Speaker 2: this just doesn't feel like the England that that it
Speaker 2: once did. And you put into the mix that and
Speaker 2: I think this is another distinction with Australia. There is
Speaker 2: a higher there is higher amounts of Islamic immigration, which
Speaker 2: has led to in many instances a real feeling of
Speaker 2: cultural fracture, feeling that so particularly more conservative fundamentalist Islamic communities,
Speaker 2: their values are not commandal with western liberal democracy. It's
Speaker 2: led to a real anger in parts of the UK.
Speaker 2: We're seeing that in parts of western Sydney. We're seeing
Speaker 2: that in parts of Victoria, as you know, but not
Speaker 2: nearly to the same level of intensity. And as a
Speaker 2: result of that, people here are just fed up and
Speaker 2: if they don't see the numbers go down in dramatically.
Speaker 2: Then kiss Dama is toast you've also got. And this
Speaker 2: is something which luckily Australia has largely solved, the illegal
Speaker 2: boat problem, which is just getting worse and worse here.
Speaker 1: And Nigel Farage what sort of character as you know,
Speaker 1: Peter Dutton and even just sent a Nampa jimper Price.
Speaker 1: Can you believe it? They were? They were at least
Speaker 1: compared or thought to be introducing Trump like politics to Australia.
Speaker 1: And again the commentariat, the likely suspects say, well, you know,
Speaker 1: Australians rejected that what are the similarities if there are
Speaker 1: similarities with Farage and Trump?
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, it's interesting you say that because I always
Speaker 2: think Farage a bit like Dusn't actually is trying very
Speaker 2: consciably to disassociate himself with Trumpian tactics. So he's making
Speaker 2: a very deliberate effort to move from I guess the
Speaker 2: right to the center. And he's but at the same time,
Speaker 2: in terms of similarities, it's this sort of kind of
Speaker 2: right wing populism which isn't necessarily right wing on economics,
Speaker 2: like he's still keen to spend money, probably more money
Speaker 2: than I would like, as more of a fiscal conservative
Speaker 2: kind of guy. But the similarities are kind of this
Speaker 2: right wing almost like kind of populous economics, real hardline
Speaker 2: on immigration, and then a real plea to kind of
Speaker 2: bring back some pride in British identity in the same
Speaker 2: way that Trump would say make America great again. Trump
Speaker 2: Farage is playing off this feeling that this country in
Speaker 2: decline and you need to basically bring it back in
Speaker 2: some way. So he's playing a sense of grievance and
Speaker 2: he's doing it very successfully at the moment.
Speaker 1: The way back for the Liberal Party, it's a very
Speaker 1: big question that I don't expect you to have it
Speaker 1: real an't it too. But you've seen the ascension of
Speaker 1: Susan Lee as leader. There's been, of course the little
Speaker 1: fight between the Coalition Party members or the Nationals and
Speaker 1: the Liberal Party. We've seen ministers that will shadow ministers
Speaker 1: dump like Sarah Henderson and Jane Hume too. Women, and
Speaker 1: of course that's another area of discussion, more women or not.
Speaker 1: Is there an obvious way back that you look at
Speaker 1: this and with your knowledge and experience, what would you
Speaker 1: be saying.
Speaker 2: Well, number one, get some guts. Basically, you know, we
Speaker 2: have this argument around the broad church of the Liberal Party,
Speaker 2: and in the past there's been social conservatives and critical
Speaker 2: liberals and it's been how do you keep that group together?
Speaker 2: The broad church has been blown up and now you've
Speaker 2: just got these vaguely right wing people all wandering around
Speaker 2: in different directions, and there's been no discussion, no real
Speaker 2: attempt to try and say what is the purpose of
Speaker 2: the Liberal Party in twenty twenty five? I cannot believe
Speaker 2: the Liberal Party went to an election basically promising higher
Speaker 2: taxes than labor and basically promising that they would spend
Speaker 2: money then labor, at least in the first two years
Speaker 2: after the election. It's like, what that kind of got
Speaker 2: me thinking? What is the point of you in twenty
Speaker 2: twenty five? So they need to very quickly work out
Speaker 2: what does it mean to be to be a conserve
Speaker 2: party in politics in twenty twenty five. I suspect it
Speaker 2: is similar to the platform that Reform is running on
Speaker 2: in the UK, which is to be tougher on legal
Speaker 2: immigration and to reduce legal immigration numbers. It is to
Speaker 2: promote pro growth policies by just bringing in more migrants
Speaker 2: but by reducing taxes, but then also having the guts
Speaker 2: to reduce spending commensarily at the same time, and it's
Speaker 2: also basically not shying away from cultural issues when appropriate
Speaker 2: in the way that Dutan did. The reality is that
Speaker 2: this was the Seinfeld election. Look, it was the election
Speaker 2: about nothing, and when you look back at the end,
Speaker 2: people said, you know, I need to have something to
Speaker 2: believe in from the right of Polics and doesn't didn't
Speaker 2: give them that. Sadly, I don't think Susan leg will either.
Speaker 2: You look at where the world is going now. Nazeron
Speaker 2: ditched it recently, Reform will ditch it if they win government.
Speaker 2: I think the Labor Party even now will walk away
Speaker 2: from net zero. Quietly, the world and everyone that matters
Speaker 2: in the world is moving away from net zero, and
Speaker 2: Australia increasingly looks like this bizarre statistic outlier. The fact
Speaker 2: of the matter is you can do this sort of
Speaker 2: symbolic singling nonsense and make no mistake, this is symbolic
Speaker 2: because it won't impact the global climate and one iota
Speaker 2: when times are good. But when times are tough for Australians,
Speaker 2: and times are going to get tougher with the economy
Speaker 2: in the next three years, you can't afford this sort
Speaker 2: of stuff. Cheap energy is one of the keepers to
Speaker 2: a strong economy, and it's also one of the easiest
Speaker 2: ways that you reduced cost of living, and you just
Speaker 2: cannot do it when you're tying one hand behind your
Speaker 2: back with net zero. So the thing with the Liberal Party,
Speaker 2: and I'm sick of them continue arguing about how to
Speaker 2: get to new net zero and the whole nuclear thing.
Speaker 2: The argument should be we are going to ditch zero,
Speaker 2: but once again I'm not sure whether they have the
Speaker 2: guts to be able to do it.
Speaker 1: Yeah. You can hear more of Will of course on
Speaker 1: the Spectator Australia's Fire at Will podcast. See him on
Speaker 1: Sky News. He's often on with bolt GB News as well.
Speaker 1: We'll look after yourself, mate, Thank you for staying up
Speaker 1: for us. Great to hear your voice. We'll talk again soon.
Speaker 2: Thanks lud chiersmute