WEBVTT - The Sunday Showdown with Will Kingston

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<v Speaker 1>Now on weekends the Sunday Sweet looking at the stories

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<v Speaker 1>of the week. Time for the Sunday Sweep, where we

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<v Speaker 1>look back at the issues of the week and just

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<v Speaker 1>talk about the body politic here and all around the world.

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<v Speaker 1>And I'm delighted to say that again. The host of

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<v Speaker 1>The Spectator Australia's Fired Will podcast and contributor to gb

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<v Speaker 1>and Sky News, Will Kingston is with us on the

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<v Speaker 1>line from the United Kingdom. But you've been in Oz,

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<v Speaker 1>haven't you?

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<v Speaker 2>Will? Good alek I have. I got back to he

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<v Speaker 2>throw at six am this morning, so yeah, nice, you

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<v Speaker 2>can city for a few weeks and now in Blighty, lovely.

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<v Speaker 1>We might start with the news at the Caterhan early

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<v Speaker 1>yesterday on our show, which was that Donald Trump now

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<v Speaker 1>hiking steel tariffs to fifty percent. He says he plans

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<v Speaker 1>to increase tariffs on foreign steel imports from twenty five percent.

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<v Speaker 1>The doubling of these levies taking effect on June four.

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<v Speaker 1>These could further push up prices for mature or used

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<v Speaker 1>in housing, vehicles and other goods. That adds already to

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<v Speaker 1>our inability to build homes quickly and affordably, and this

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<v Speaker 1>will have impacts all around the world made.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it will. Well, there's always two ways of looking

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<v Speaker 2>at this, the politics of it, and then there's the

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<v Speaker 2>consequences on the politics. Trump's actually got this acronym that's

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<v Speaker 2>being labeled against him now, taco. I don't know if

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<v Speaker 2>you've heard about this. Trump always chickens out, yes, and

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<v Speaker 2>it's actually it's starting to get a bit of traction,

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<v Speaker 2>and it's the kind of thing which Trump would really hate.

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<v Speaker 2>So I do wonder whether if he then goes back

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<v Speaker 2>on these tariffs like he has on some of the others,

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<v Speaker 2>or if there is further judicial pushback, the reputation which

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<v Speaker 2>he wants to cultivate as a strong man could actually

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<v Speaker 2>take a bit of a hit. And we've got those

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<v Speaker 2>midterm elections coming up next year, so there will be

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<v Speaker 2>implications there. That's the politics side. But you're right to

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<v Speaker 2>point out that the reality is with all the other tariffs,

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<v Speaker 2>they will make things more expensive to make, which therefore

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<v Speaker 2>will make things more expensive to buy for consumers. Now,

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<v Speaker 2>if in the long term that this plays out, that

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<v Speaker 2>he can somehow manage to bring more workers back to America,

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<v Speaker 2>well that's hunky dory, but it doesn't change the fact

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<v Speaker 2>that for American consumers and Australian consumers. It's going to

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<v Speaker 2>cost more to buy cars, and that's something which I

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<v Speaker 2>think when we talk about costs of living, that's a

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<v Speaker 2>real problem. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>The other point about Trump is, and I have heard

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<v Speaker 1>the taco thing, but he does try to get a deal. Now,

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<v Speaker 1>if he wants, for example, to get an extra hundred

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<v Speaker 1>on something, he might initially go with two hundred. If

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<v Speaker 1>he settles for a hundred, he's got what he originally wants.

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<v Speaker 1>Is that the other way of looking at taco or

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<v Speaker 1>the taco idea.

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<v Speaker 2>Potentially, But this is the thing I struggle with, and

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<v Speaker 2>that is he's at different times given different reasons to tariffs.

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<v Speaker 2>At one time he basically says that it's really just

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<v Speaker 2>a four D chess tactic to try and get trade

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<v Speaker 2>deals with other countries and really get them to lower

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<v Speaker 2>their tariff levels. And at other times he's basically saying, well, no,

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<v Speaker 2>we're going to keep the tariffs forever, and they're a

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<v Speaker 2>way for us to bring workers back to America. And

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<v Speaker 2>those two things are in tension with each other. In fact,

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<v Speaker 2>they're contradictory. So it would actually be helpful if he

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<v Speaker 2>did provide more clarity and what's the real purpose of

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<v Speaker 2>these But that, to your point, is not really the

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<v Speaker 2>Trump mo so time will tell it.

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<v Speaker 1>Will Now I want you to tell me about reform

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<v Speaker 1>in the UK, the Reform Party. This is Nigel Farras

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<v Speaker 1>and I guess, as you well know, mate, in Australian

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<v Speaker 1>politics now the conservative, traditionally center right parties are I

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<v Speaker 1>don't think it's unfair to say turmoil, or at least

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<v Speaker 1>they're having to rebuild and over in the UK was

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<v Speaker 1>seeing Nigel Faraj and his party do very well. I

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<v Speaker 1>don't know if what happens they're necessarily happens here, but

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<v Speaker 1>give us your take on all of this.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I think you've hit the nail on the head.

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<v Speaker 2>I would say more than turmoil for the Conservatives in

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<v Speaker 2>the UK and for the Liberal National parties in Australia,

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<v Speaker 2>I think they're both in existential threat under threat. If

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<v Speaker 2>you look at the Conservatives, they basically let the public

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<v Speaker 2>down for fourteen years. Everything they said they would do

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<v Speaker 2>they didn't and as a result of that there is

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<v Speaker 2>a very real chance that they are wiped off the

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<v Speaker 2>electoral at the next election, which would be extraordinary. They

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<v Speaker 2>are the most successful party of any political party in

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<v Speaker 2>modern Western political history, and Reform have capitalized on that.

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<v Speaker 2>The poll of polls which comes out, which is basically

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<v Speaker 2>an amalgamation of all the different polls over the last

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<v Speaker 2>couple of weeks, came out only an hour or so

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<v Speaker 2>ago and it pointed to what would be if an

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<v Speaker 2>election was held tomorrow, a landslide win for Reform, which

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<v Speaker 2>would put Nigel Fargen's Prime minister. And basically, I think

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<v Speaker 2>I think they've got a that over just thirty percent

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<v Speaker 2>of the total vote. I think Labor came in at

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<v Speaker 2>about twenty four the Conservatives boys that if these numbers hold,

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<v Speaker 2>and again keep in mind four years ago a long time,

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<v Speaker 2>but you would see the Conservatives wiped off to face

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<v Speaker 2>the map, you would say, Nigel Farage's prime minisign. You

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<v Speaker 2>would see Labor be dumped after one terming government. And

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<v Speaker 2>I think we'll get to this. But the enduring issue,

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<v Speaker 2>the issue above all else, which is driving this real

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<v Speaker 2>anger amongst electorates is both legal and illegmigration.

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<v Speaker 1>Immigration isn't that interesting? And the center right here, as

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<v Speaker 1>you know, they were talking a big game about reducing

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<v Speaker 1>immigration to nearer the long term averages and I think

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<v Speaker 1>you've only got to look at the ability to get

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<v Speaker 1>around our productivity problem, lack of housing and other infrastructure.

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<v Speaker 1>It seems and it doesn't have to be necessarily forever,

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<v Speaker 1>but it just seems to be common sense. But again

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<v Speaker 1>the liberal National parties went to the people. It ended

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<v Speaker 1>up being the case from many of the likely suspects

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<v Speaker 1>in the commentariat that that was anti anti the Australia,

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<v Speaker 1>that we've become a migrant nation. It led to certain

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<v Speaker 1>groups and Chinese. I often refer to Chinese Australians running

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<v Speaker 1>away from the center right coalition. But it intrigues me

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<v Speaker 1>that this is made about race and culture. It's purely

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<v Speaker 1>here in mathematics. Is it mathematics in England or is

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<v Speaker 1>it more to do.

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<v Speaker 2>With culture, so mathematics the issue? Or on a per

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<v Speaker 2>capita base, its especially been more immigrations Australia than the

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<v Speaker 2>UK in recent years, but the feeling around how the

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<v Speaker 2>culture is changing is worse than the UK. I was

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<v Speaker 2>trying to work it out myself when I was back

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<v Speaker 2>in Sydney a few weeks ago. I think it is

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<v Speaker 2>because the Australian population is more spread out. Therefore the

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<v Speaker 2>effects of immigration are more diluted as opposed to the UK,

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<v Speaker 2>where if you go now to parts of London, if

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<v Speaker 2>you go to parts of Birmingham, to go to parts

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<v Speaker 2>of Newcastle, you do not feel like you're in England.

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<v Speaker 2>And look, there are too many people who say, oh, well,

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<v Speaker 2>it's racist to say that we'll be driving down Edgeway

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<v Speaker 2>roads in the central of London's day and it could

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<v Speaker 2>have been Islamabad. It was absolutely shocking. Now people go like,

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<v Speaker 2>this just doesn't feel like the England that that it

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<v Speaker 2>once did. And you put into the mix that and

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<v Speaker 2>I think this is another distinction with Australia. There is

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<v Speaker 2>a higher there is higher amounts of Islamic immigration, which

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<v Speaker 2>has led to in many instances a real feeling of

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<v Speaker 2>cultural fracture, feeling that so particularly more conservative fundamentalist Islamic communities,

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<v Speaker 2>their values are not commandal with western liberal democracy. It's

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<v Speaker 2>led to a real anger in parts of the UK.

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<v Speaker 2>We're seeing that in parts of western Sydney. We're seeing

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<v Speaker 2>that in parts of Victoria, as you know, but not

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<v Speaker 2>nearly to the same level of intensity. And as a

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<v Speaker 2>result of that, people here are just fed up and

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<v Speaker 2>if they don't see the numbers go down in dramatically.

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<v Speaker 2>Then kiss Dama is toast you've also got. And this

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<v Speaker 2>is something which luckily Australia has largely solved, the illegal

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<v Speaker 2>boat problem, which is just getting worse and worse here.

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<v Speaker 1>And Nigel Farage what sort of character as you know,

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<v Speaker 1>Peter Dutton and even just sent a Nampa jimper Price.

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<v Speaker 1>Can you believe it? They were? They were at least

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<v Speaker 1>compared or thought to be introducing Trump like politics to Australia.

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<v Speaker 1>And again the commentariat, the likely suspects say, well, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>Australians rejected that what are the similarities if there are

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<v Speaker 1>similarities with Farage and Trump?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, yeah, it's interesting you say that because I always

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<v Speaker 2>think Farage a bit like Dusn't actually is trying very

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<v Speaker 2>consciably to disassociate himself with Trumpian tactics. So he's making

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<v Speaker 2>a very deliberate effort to move from I guess the

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<v Speaker 2>right to the center. And he's but at the same time,

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<v Speaker 2>in terms of similarities, it's this sort of kind of

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<v Speaker 2>right wing populism which isn't necessarily right wing on economics,

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<v Speaker 2>like he's still keen to spend money, probably more money

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<v Speaker 2>than I would like, as more of a fiscal conservative

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<v Speaker 2>kind of guy. But the similarities are kind of this

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<v Speaker 2>right wing almost like kind of populous economics, real hardline

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<v Speaker 2>on immigration, and then a real plea to kind of

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<v Speaker 2>bring back some pride in British identity in the same

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<v Speaker 2>way that Trump would say make America great again. Trump

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<v Speaker 2>Farage is playing off this feeling that this country in

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<v Speaker 2>decline and you need to basically bring it back in

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<v Speaker 2>some way. So he's playing a sense of grievance and

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<v Speaker 2>he's doing it very successfully at the moment.

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<v Speaker 1>The way back for the Liberal Party, it's a very

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<v Speaker 1>big question that I don't expect you to have it

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<v Speaker 1>real an't it too. But you've seen the ascension of

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<v Speaker 1>Susan Lee as leader. There's been, of course the little

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<v Speaker 1>fight between the Coalition Party members or the Nationals and

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<v Speaker 1>the Liberal Party. We've seen ministers that will shadow ministers

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<v Speaker 1>dump like Sarah Henderson and Jane Hume too. Women, and

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<v Speaker 1>of course that's another area of discussion, more women or not.

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<v Speaker 1>Is there an obvious way back that you look at

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<v Speaker 1>this and with your knowledge and experience, what would you

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<v Speaker 1>be saying.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, number one, get some guts. Basically, you know, we

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<v Speaker 2>have this argument around the broad church of the Liberal Party,

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<v Speaker 2>and in the past there's been social conservatives and critical

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<v Speaker 2>liberals and it's been how do you keep that group together?

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<v Speaker 2>The broad church has been blown up and now you've

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<v Speaker 2>just got these vaguely right wing people all wandering around

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<v Speaker 2>in different directions, and there's been no discussion, no real

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<v Speaker 2>attempt to try and say what is the purpose of

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<v Speaker 2>the Liberal Party in twenty twenty five? I cannot believe

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<v Speaker 2>the Liberal Party went to an election basically promising higher

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<v Speaker 2>taxes than labor and basically promising that they would spend

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<v Speaker 2>money then labor, at least in the first two years

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<v Speaker 2>after the election. It's like, what that kind of got

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<v Speaker 2>me thinking? What is the point of you in twenty

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<v Speaker 2>twenty five? So they need to very quickly work out

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<v Speaker 2>what does it mean to be to be a conserve

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<v Speaker 2>party in politics in twenty twenty five. I suspect it

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<v Speaker 2>is similar to the platform that Reform is running on

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<v Speaker 2>in the UK, which is to be tougher on legal

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<v Speaker 2>immigration and to reduce legal immigration numbers. It is to

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<v Speaker 2>promote pro growth policies by just bringing in more migrants

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<v Speaker 2>but by reducing taxes, but then also having the guts

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<v Speaker 2>to reduce spending commensarily at the same time, and it's

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<v Speaker 2>also basically not shying away from cultural issues when appropriate

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<v Speaker 2>in the way that Dutan did. The reality is that

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<v Speaker 2>this was the Seinfeld election. Look, it was the election

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<v Speaker 2>about nothing, and when you look back at the end,

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<v Speaker 2>people said, you know, I need to have something to

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<v Speaker 2>believe in from the right of Polics and doesn't didn't

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<v Speaker 2>give them that. Sadly, I don't think Susan leg will either.

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<v Speaker 2>You look at where the world is going now. Nazeron

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<v Speaker 2>ditched it recently, Reform will ditch it if they win government.

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<v Speaker 2>I think the Labor Party even now will walk away

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<v Speaker 2>from net zero. Quietly, the world and everyone that matters

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<v Speaker 2>in the world is moving away from net zero, and

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<v Speaker 2>Australia increasingly looks like this bizarre statistic outlier. The fact

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<v Speaker 2>of the matter is you can do this sort of

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<v Speaker 2>symbolic singling nonsense and make no mistake, this is symbolic

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<v Speaker 2>because it won't impact the global climate and one iota

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<v Speaker 2>when times are good. But when times are tough for Australians,

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<v Speaker 2>and times are going to get tougher with the economy

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<v Speaker 2>in the next three years, you can't afford this sort

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<v Speaker 2>of stuff. Cheap energy is one of the keepers to

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<v Speaker 2>a strong economy, and it's also one of the easiest

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<v Speaker 2>ways that you reduced cost of living, and you just

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<v Speaker 2>cannot do it when you're tying one hand behind your

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<v Speaker 2>back with net zero. So the thing with the Liberal Party,

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<v Speaker 2>and I'm sick of them continue arguing about how to

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<v Speaker 2>get to new net zero and the whole nuclear thing.

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<v Speaker 2>The argument should be we are going to ditch zero,

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<v Speaker 2>but once again I'm not sure whether they have the

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<v Speaker 2>guts to be able to do it.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. You can hear more of Will of course on

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<v Speaker 1>the Spectator Australia's Fire at Will podcast. See him on

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<v Speaker 1>Sky News. He's often on with bolt GB News as well.

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<v Speaker 1>We'll look after yourself, mate, Thank you for staying up

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<v Speaker 1>for us. Great to hear your voice. We'll talk again soon.

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<v Speaker 2>Thanks lud chiersmute