S1: Hey, I'm Osman Farooqui and this is the drop a
S1: culture show from the Sydney Morning Herald and The Age,
S1: where we dive into the latest in the world of
S1: pop culture and entertainment. I'm here with Mel Kambouris and
S1: Thomas Mitchell. What's up team?
S2: Oh, you know, just here in the podcast I realize
S2: I am like wearing a chef themed outfit for today's podcast.
S2: It's a visual gag. I just Just wanted to get
S2: ahead of it. Um, what do you mean?
S3: You realize you, like, put it on and sat down?
S2: Well, I just thought it would be appropriate. Yeah.
S1: For people who can't look at Thomas, which is most
S1: of you, because this is a podcast. He's wearing a
S1: white t shirt, his famous white t shirts with a
S1: dark blue navy blue apron in the style of Carmy
S1: Berzatto from the bear. He looks very good in it.
S1: But you were saying you don't think that apron is
S1: particularly robust? It's not going to mop up spills?
S2: No, this is not. This is obviously like an apron
S2: that's been made for to be sent out to journalists.
S2: You would never wear this in a kitchen, I don't think.
S3: And the reason Thomas has this is because he has
S3: such a reputation in the office for being obsessed with
S3: the bear, that one of our fashion writers received it
S3: in the mail, and then placed it as a little
S3: surprise on his desk, along with a hat. Yes.
S2: Correct. That was very nice of him. A hat that
S2: says yes, chef. Uh, so yeah, very nice to dress
S2: as Carmy, um, even before we get a chance to
S2: talk about him, but otherwise all good.
S3: Will you wear it all day? Yes.
S2: Correct.
S1: Um, yeah. You've probably guessed that we will be talking
S1: about the pair on on today's show. But before we
S1: get there, congratulations, Thomas, on predicting origin. Last week you
S1: said blues by 20. Very impressive. It's what happened.
S2: I know I like I mean, I've been telling you
S2: guys for ages, if you just follow me and especially
S2: follow me, like when I go heavily into financial like predictions,
S2: then you'll be all right. Uh, literally. I picked the
S2: scoreline and I can't wait to do the same thing.
S2: I think July 17th is game three.
S3: So can I ask what ballpark of money or winnings
S3: you made?
S2: It was actually a pretty good one, to be honest.
S2: Yeah it was. Have you so.
S1: Good. He doesn't want to say the number. So the
S1: tax man doesn't find out. Correct. Before we get into
S1: the guts of today's app, I wanted to ask you
S1: guys if you had seen these photos that emerged from
S1: Gladiator two. I'm not sure if they're like set photos
S1: or their official released film stills. They were part of
S1: a Vanity Fair first look profile on this film. So
S1: this is Ridley Scott doing the sequel. No Russell Crowe
S1: but yes to Paul Mescal, yes to Joseph Quinn, yes
S1: to Denzel Washington. I thought these looked pretty sick. You
S1: guys know that I'm, you know, not super high on Paul.
S1: I'm a bit sad that rusty is not going to
S1: be in this one, but looking at these photos and
S1: particularly like the fit that Denzel is in got me
S1: really excited. What did you guys think?
S3: Oh man. You know, I've got a lot of time
S3: for Denzel, especially lately. I think I've watched every single
S3: film he has been in in the last year. Like
S3: Denzel Washington has been my genre. So I'm really excited. Yeah,
S3: all the equalizers, man on, man on Fire, all of them. Um,
S3: I'm excited to see him in it. I think the
S3: pictures looked good, right? Like, I know I've had a
S3: bit of concerns about Ridley Scott because of Napoleon, that
S3: it might just be a kind of big men doing
S3: big men things, but I don't know, it made me excited.
S3: But also what I'm really excited about is that we
S3: might have a barbenheimer match up with Wicked and Gladiator
S3: coming out on the same day in November. That's gonna
S3: be huge.
S2: Gladiator clicking.
S1: Click click.
S3: It's good. Oh, we should coin that here first.
S2: Yeah, I don't know. I like the more I hear
S2: about this movie, the more I feel like it's increasingly
S2: an internet play. Like it's got Pedro Pascal and Paul
S2: Mescal and everyone else that rhymes. Like I just, I
S2: don't know if it's going to be that good. Like, I,
S2: I really like the photos of Paul. I, you know,
S2: I'm here for Paul. I'm not part of the anti
S2: Paul brigade, um, like Osman is. I did think it
S2: was very funny seeing some photos of Joseph Quinn online,
S2: and it was like I saw one meme that was like, lol,
S2: this looks like the kind of guy who leaves his
S2: wife Ariana Grande. I thought that was I thought that
S2: was very funny. I don't know, I just for me, Gladiator,
S2: the first one, the initial one is such like a
S2: great film and I just don't know if I need
S2: to go back there. I'm happy. Like I think Russell
S2: all power to him. You keep finding like exorcisms to
S2: do on screen. That's where you should be now. And
S2: I just don't know if this film is going to, like,
S2: tarnish the legacy.
S3: I actually found the first Gladiator because we were quite
S3: young when it came out, and I remember watching it
S3: with my dad. I found it quite traumatic, like that
S3: image of the family hanging from the ropes and some
S3: of the. Yeah, yeah. Like, I often think about it. Um,
S3: so I'll be interested to see if they make this
S3: one as dark and violent. I'm sure they will. Knowing
S3: Ridley Scott and what we've seen in Napoleon.
S1: There are so few films left that just exist as
S1: independent standalone like pieces of culture. Everything is getting mined
S1: and turned into IP with a million sequels. I feel like, yeah,
S1: I'm like you, Thomas. I don't feel convinced we need
S1: a sequel. Like if Ridley wants to get in the
S1: dust with Paul and Denzel and Pedro Pascal, find a
S1: project for that. But I can't help but feel like
S1: a sequel that inevitably won't be as good or as
S1: important as the first one kind of could sully it.
S1: Because now it's not just Gladiator, this great film from
S1: 24 years ago, it's Gladiator and Gladiator two. But I
S1: have to say, yeah, some of my cynicism was was
S1: brushed to the side just by seeing some of these photos.
S1: And like I said, particularly Denzel, who looks fucking awesome
S1: in that sort of blue outfit he was wearing. Very exciting.
S1: I mean.
S2: We all have lots of time for Denzel, but yeah,
S2: I do think somewhere where where was he this weekend? Glastonbury,
S2: Russell Crowe, like probably punching a dart, being like, yeah,
S2: fuck you guys. It'll never be as good as the
S2: first one.
S3: I'm mainly excited for the gladiator pod, because then you
S3: can dress as a gladiator. Like, maybe that's going to
S3: be your thing now. Okay, cool.
S1: You'll be dressed as Elphaba the wicked. Is she the
S1: wicked witch?
S3: I don't I don't know which one she is, but
S3: I will be.
S1: Um. Any other news you guys want to talk about
S1: Joe Biden tanking in the presidential debate? The governor's tapping
S1: him on the shoulder. You want to pivot to being
S1: a political podcast for a bit?
S2: Should I dress up as Joe Biden or.
S3: I mean, you do stare off into space a bit.
S1: There's there's a culture angle to that. It was a televised,
S1: you know, debate. He didn't do very well in. No.
S3: And then all the the video of him not dancing,
S3: I find it quite painful to watch the whole thing.
S3: Like I feel like I'm trying to avoid engaging with
S3: it too much because it stresses me out when I
S3: get into the weeds of it and really think about it.
S1: Yeah, to be clear, it was a joke. I wasn't
S1: planning on us having an extended conversation about Biden's chances.
S2: I've been too busy engaging with like, the anti hot
S2: chocolate mafia. So, unfortunately.
S1: Uh, do you want to talk about that, Thomas? You
S1: you had a pretty tough weekend online. You shared your
S1: thoughts about hot chocolate and why adults shouldn't be drinking it.
S1: And it became like you became Twitter's main character for
S1: a weekend, which is never good. I believe I used
S1: the term you got at Osfed.
S2: Yeah, I was expecting a bit more like of leadership
S2: from you because you've been there so many times. But
S2: like of all the dumb shit I've written and I've
S2: written some pretty dumb stuff, uh, this one really seemed
S2: to strike a chord. I woke up on Monday morning
S2: to like, thousands of Twitter notifications. Uh, a call from
S2: a radio station asking me if I wanted to talk
S2: about my drink shaming article, which was an amazing.
S1: That one was actually my fault. They called me and
S1: they said, do you have Thomas's number? We want to
S1: interview him about his hot chocolate. And I said, yes,
S1: here it is. Please give him a buzz.
S2: And the funniest thing is like, obviously, you know, these
S2: things happen. You write something, whatever, people don't agree with it.
S2: And then Twitter, like takes a hold. But just I
S2: find it so funny the some of the tweets just
S2: like really made me laugh, even though, you know, I
S2: would read them to my wife and she'd be like,
S2: oh my God, that makes me so sad. This one
S2: guy wanted me to stick my wobbly bits in a mulcher,
S2: which I thought was particularly creative. But then there was one.
S2: There was one that had 1000 retweets, and it was
S2: just like, well, at least we can all agree on something.
S2: Thomas Mitchell is a moron. So that was.
S3: One that was just like, let the people drink what
S3: they want, you hot chocolate eating journalist and had 15,000 likes.
S2: So yeah, I mean, it's good. It's it was it
S2: was a fun experience. And but I would say I
S2: did have a hot chocolate yesterday as a way of,
S2: you know, take like getting the heat off and it
S2: was quite nice. But again, I stand by the fact
S2: that it's not an everyday drink. All right.
S1: Well, speaking of food and drink related opinions, let's talk
S1: about the bear. Good.
S4: You feel good?
UU: We're gonna see. We're open. Button your lip, baby.
S5: Let's fly or cavatelli. Enjoy. Via Wagyu. Take your.
S6: Time. Just bear with us. One more second.
S7: Refire.
S6: I'm getting drilled out there. We're in.
S5: This is a dysfunctional kitchen. Show me a functional one.
S1: A little bit of housekeeping first. Maybe the bear is
S1: released all in one go on Disney+. So all ten
S1: episodes are available now of season three. It makes talking
S1: about it kind of tricky because we don't really know
S1: where everyone is at with the show, since everyone watches
S1: it at a different pace. Our conversation today, we're going
S1: to focus on the first five episodes, and we'll talk
S1: about the second half of the season next week. So
S1: our conversation will include spoilers up to and including episode five.
S1: If you haven't watched that fight and you don't want
S1: to be spoiled, maybe catch up and then come back
S1: to us. There's a few different threads to how I
S1: think we should tackle this conversation. This was one of
S1: our most anticipated shows of the year. The critical and
S1: audience reception to season three has been more mixed than
S1: the first two, which was basically universal acclaim and a
S1: swag of Emmys. I want to talk about how the
S1: season is being received, and what that might tell us
S1: about how people are feeling about this kind of television
S1: right now. But first, I just want to talk to
S1: you guys about what you think of this season. The
S1: first episode in particular elicited some very, very strong responses.
S1: Season two ends with Kimmy locked in the freezer at
S1: the restaurant. He's screaming at Cousin Richie. He's fighting with
S1: his girlfriend Claire. When we pick things back up with
S1: the premiere of season three, we have this very non-linear,
S1: largely exposition and dialogue free episode. It's a little bit experimental.
S1: It takes us a little bit after the events of
S1: the season two finale, but it mainly focuses on Kimmy's past.
S1: What did you guys make of this Pretty wild way
S1: to kick off a very highly anticipated season of a
S1: TV show.
S3: Yeah, I feel that third seasons are tough for any show.
S3: It's a make or break point, and the bear finished
S3: on such a powerful note last time it reached such
S3: a climactic peak that it was always going to be
S3: hard to follow. I actually think if there hadn't been
S3: a season break and this had been attached to the
S3: last season, this episode might have worked better. It might
S3: have been just what we needed after the highs of
S3: kami being locked in the fridge. But to start a
S3: new season, I thought this episode was self-indulgent and annoying,
S3: and it actually really summarized what's wrong with the rest
S3: of the season. I will say we've only seen up
S3: to five, and I. I feel like from what I've read,
S3: there's some high notes coming in the rest of the season,
S3: and we know from the second season, I think some
S3: of the best episodes came in the second half. So,
S3: I mean, I will caveat with we've only seen the
S3: top one, but this episode just summed it up. It's
S3: kind of reliance on melodrama, it's obsession with montages, it's
S3: obsession with throwing back into the past. It's kind of weird,
S3: heavy handed use of music. It's a very aimless episode,
S3: I don't know, like kami is obsessed with, like, continuously evolving.
S3: And that's a bit of a theme through the episode.
S3: But like, the show has not done that. And I
S3: think this first EP really summarizes what my issues are
S3: with the first five.
S2: Yeah, I mean, it pains me to say this, given
S2: I'm literally sat here dressed like kami as an adult,
S2: but like, yeah, I feel I mean, I guess in
S2: answer to your question about the episode, one in particular,
S2: I did really think it was a like a style
S2: over substance thing. It just felt so overblown to me. Like,
S2: you know, it was undoubtedly beautiful. The show has never
S2: had an issue with the way it looks and the
S2: way it feels like, you know, the shots were beautiful,
S2: the food looks beautiful. It's hard to not take a
S2: nice take in Copenhagen like, you know, because we see
S2: Carmy kind of like revisiting all the places he's worked.
S2: And essentially we're meant to be learning about how he
S2: came to be this kind of anxious mess of a
S2: guy who kind of repeats the cycle of abuse, blah, blah, blah.
S2: But like, I just found it. That could have been
S2: a montage in a part of the episode rather than
S2: basically the entire episode. And, you know, I understand we're
S2: coming off the back of the finale, which was so tense.
S2: And I you know, I think that fight between Richie
S2: and Carmy in the fridge was like one of the
S2: best scenes of the series. And maybe this, you know,
S2: they wanted to really change the pace when they were
S2: bringing us back into the show. But I felt like
S2: it just was really kind of limp. Um, you know, like,
S2: it's so funny that we constantly get this mantra from
S2: Chef Terry of, like, every Second Counts. And the show
S2: is like, not thinking about that at all. Instead, we're
S2: just kind of being forced to be like, oh, look
S2: at all these pretty pictures. And, you know, I think
S2: in what Mel said, I think really agree with that
S2: is a snapshot of what I think a lot of
S2: the issues with the first five episodes of season three
S2: are so far. Um, for me anyway, I don't know,
S2: I feel like oseman I know that you watched it
S2: in a particular context and you seem to dig it.
S1: Well, I will say that I think there is a
S1: structural problem with this season, and it goes to the
S1: first episode as well that I think you touched on.
S1: This was supposed to be a three season arc, and
S1: the success of the first two has prompted Disney or Fox,
S1: or whichever Disney subsidiary is in charge of this, to
S1: say to the creator, Chris Storer, hey, we want four seasons,
S1: and I think it really feels like he's taking a
S1: season's worth of stuff and stretching it out over two seasons.
S1: Like at that point you made about every second counting
S1: that not happening. I think that's really spot on. I
S1: feel like there's big moments of this season, either entire
S1: episodes or bits of episodes that just feel like filler,
S1: that aren't really driving things forward or not taking the
S1: kinds of swings or the big set pieces that we've
S1: come to love and appreciate from the show. And I
S1: hear you guys on the first episode as well, and
S1: I can see why it didn't work for a lot
S1: of people. I had a slightly different response to it.
S1: And I'm not trying to say that if you didn't
S1: like it, you're wrong or anything like that, but. And
S1: it may have to do with my mental state. Thomas,
S1: you and I, I was in Sydney. We were hanging out.
S1: We had a wonderful night at a wonderful restaurant in
S1: Sydney and Newtown. Delicious food, delicious drink. I caught a
S1: flight the next morning. I was like a bit tired,
S1: a bit emotional in a certain mental state. And I
S1: watched this episode of television that I found visually quite beautiful.
S1: You know, I think Chris stories like using the cash
S1: that he's got and the budget, he's got to just
S1: flex his muscles a little bit. And part of me
S1: respects that. Like, you've created two seasons of a great show.
S1: Everyone loves you. You can kind of do whatever you want.
S1: Your apex now. And he said, I want an episode
S1: that I just want to, like, have a bit of
S1: fun in that I want to shoot in an interesting
S1: way that I want to make a little bit daring,
S1: a little bit experimental. I kind of appreciated that. I'm
S1: glad the whole season isn't that. I think it's interesting
S1: and nice of him to stretch himself in a direction.
S1: I also did find some of the themes of it
S1: really interesting, like it is a bit of a restatement
S1: of the thesis of this show that Carmy is a
S1: very troubled character, and every time he is presented with
S1: challenges or trauma, he doesn't know how to deal with it,
S1: and he throws himself into his work to try to
S1: seek some control in the kitchen environment, because he doesn't
S1: really feel like he's got control on other aspects of
S1: his life. One of the bits that I thought worked
S1: really well was seeing that sort of cycle filter down,
S1: where you see Carmy finally creating the dish that he's
S1: the most proud of after this pressure. It's like a diamond,
S1: like he's put under this pressure from that mean chef
S1: Joel McHale. He's in that situation because he's fleeing all
S1: sorts of other issues he's got. He finally nails the
S1: perfect dish. And who is it who eats that dish?
S1: It's Sid, and she's like, I want to work with
S1: this guy. What a genius. Not aware at that time
S1: that he could only create something so masterful because of
S1: all the shit that he's carrying and how that hardened
S1: inside of him. And then you see, over the next
S1: two and a half seasons, the way that Carmy brings
S1: that trauma and stress onto her as well. I thought
S1: that was a really interesting way to tell that story,
S1: but like I said, it was a restatement of everything
S1: we know. We know that kami is like a bit
S1: of a piece of shit who wasn't handling himself well.
S1: So did it push things forward? Not.
S3: Not really. Yeah. And how many times do they have
S3: to tell us that kami is traumatized and that he
S3: puts that out on people like, to me it was
S3: just like, oh my God, how many more times do
S3: we have to see Tommy has problems? Kami is like
S3: a perfectionist, blah blah blah. To me. He is the
S3: worst thing about this show and the less of kami
S3: in this show. And I'm sorry Thomas, like I hope
S3: you're not taking this personally the worst thing. And the
S3: less of him the better. And I just think the
S3: show is best when he's not involved as much to me,
S3: because I know people will say to me, oh, but that's,
S3: you know, his character is meant to be unlikable and troubled,
S3: but you can have anti-heroes in other shows, and they
S3: don't feel as one dimensional to me as Carmy feels.
S2: I might go and put on my Marcus beanie, then
S2: feels weird because no, look, I do agree with you.
S2: I think there's like a few things going on. Um,
S2: I mean, like, yeah, you kind of said it at
S2: the top mil season three for any show. Like it
S2: actually was thinking a lot about succession last night. Just
S2: I mean, I feel like we talk about that show
S2: so often, but more and more as these shows, you know,
S2: continue to like, navigate their way through different arcs, it
S2: kind of just makes you realize how amazing succession was
S2: to maintain that quality for so long. But like season
S2: three is famously a tricky season for any show like
S2: and especially, you know, season one, we were like thrown
S2: into this world. Everyone was like, what an incredible show. And,
S2: you know, they're dealing with a subject matter that is
S2: easy and that you're building something, you know, from the
S2: ground up. And then season two, you know, they get
S2: this thing going. And like, that's easy too, in a way.
S2: But then like where they're at in season three, like they've,
S2: they've got it is naturally like a less exciting subject matter,
S2: I think. And I kind of agree with you in
S2: that kami like, it just feels like that. You know,
S2: we have been like ramped over the head with these
S2: messages of like, kami is like traumatized. Kami has issues
S2: and I feel like all of the tension is so
S2: arrested right now with with everything that's going on, it's
S2: basically like we see Richie and Carmy continue to have
S2: their situation. Syd still doesn't feel that respected by Carmy.
S2: He offers her like an official partnership in the restaurant,
S2: but he doesn't actually listen to her or seek her
S2: counsel on dishes. The sister has been pregnant for like
S2: three years. It's insane. Like, I just I just feel like,
S2: you know, I understand the timeline of the show, but
S2: it feels like all of the tension has, like, not
S2: moved forward at all. And, you know, like, unfortunately, whether
S2: or not that's like a reflection of real life in
S2: this restaurant, but it doesn't necessarily then translate to really
S2: watchable TV.
S1: Yeah, I think there's a bit to talk about there
S1: in terms of the good and the bad of this
S1: show and also the season three issue. Before we get there,
S1: I want to maybe we'll just move through the rest
S1: of the season and talk about what we liked and
S1: didn't like. Episode two. You know, it's kind of like
S1: the return to normality in terms of the structure, the
S1: non-negotiables episode. But to your point, Thomas. Yeah, it's like
S1: predominantly about Richie and Carmy yelling at each other, which
S1: I did find very fun and interesting, but wasn't new.
S1: Wasn't that exciting? Episode three. It's just like, here's a
S1: restaurant operating over the space of a month. Great. We've
S1: seen that over two years as well. Episode four Syd
S1: gets her own apartment. I don't really care that much
S1: about that. Marcus's mum died. He. He speaks at the funeral,
S1: delivers the eulogy. It's now been like a season and
S1: a half of Marcus's mum dying. Like, in no disrespect
S1: to my guy, but, like, that's a lot of time
S1: to spend on one minor characters like personal family issue.
S1: And then episode five, the episode of the review where
S1: we get some of the stunt casting John Cena. Overall,
S1: I found those episodes like, I think at least episode
S1: one tried to do something different and interesting. I found
S1: the rest of it really treading water. The only bits
S1: that really worked for me were Abby Elliott, who plays
S1: my sister. I find a really interesting and I get
S1: that the the pregnancy story, I think that resolves itself
S1: later in the season from, from what I've read. But
S1: she's really interesting and compelling, and I find her to
S1: be a really interesting anchor in this show. But that's
S1: kind of really all I can say in terms of
S1: what I really loving about it at the moment.
S3: Yeah, I completely agree. I think Nat or Sugar is
S3: she's known and Cousin Richie are like the beating heart
S3: of this show. And I actually think Cousin Richie where
S3: Carmy's character or writing of his character fails. Cousin Richie
S3: shows how you can be a complicated, traumatized character, but
S3: still not feel one note. And I thought the two
S3: best scenes and we have to say, like in the
S3: first five episodes, pretty much the dialogue consists of people
S3: telling each other to shut the fuck up like that
S3: is just like, go fuck yourself. Yeah, go fuck yourself.
S3: That's like the main dialogue, but there's two really great scenes.
S3: That scene with Cousin Richie where he's wondering whether he
S3: needs to stay out of his kid's life for her sake.
S1: Josh Hartnett coming out.
S3: Yeah, he's really having a renaissance. He was really.
S2: Good in that scene.
S1: Too. He was great in that scene. He was a
S1: really good, like, stunt car.
S2: I was like, really happy for Josh Hartnett.
S3: He was great in Oppenheimer. Bring him back. Yeah. Um,
S3: and then the other scene was the one with sugar
S3: where she's talking about. It's this really great moment of
S3: script writing where she's talking about worrying about passing what's
S3: going on in her head and her life down into
S3: her baby. And it does show that they have the
S3: potential to do these wonderful scenes, but they're too distracted
S3: by the montages and the close ups and the music,
S3: and they don't actually invest in these characters as much
S3: outside of the restaurant as I think that they should.
S2: And I feel like that's been one of the biggest
S2: things that's really bothered me. And like, I think it's
S2: fair to say I went into this show, like probably
S2: more prepared than anyone to like it, but like the
S2: tricks that made the first two seasons so great. Like
S2: like these, like really well timed flashbacks like these really
S2: kind of like beautiful montages of, like the minutiae of like,
S2: life in the kitchen and not necessarily just like food
S2: being cooked, but like Greece being, you know, wiped from
S2: the inside of an oven that, that they now feel
S2: like the biggest kind of like papering over the cracks
S2: of like holes in these episodes. And they've completely, like,
S2: forgotten the idea, you know, probably something you hear in
S2: the kitchen all the time, like less is more, and
S2: instead they're just like the aside from the opening episode,
S2: the amount of like flashbacks and montages, it's just such
S2: a like distraction. And also, I think it tells any
S2: savvy enough viewer that you've, like, not got a great
S2: idea of what's going on in your show because you're,
S2: you're doing this and I guess Oseman, I was curious
S2: to speak to you about this because you are such
S2: a marvel guy. Like, is this the whole like, Avengers
S2: Endgame situation where it's like, you split it in two
S2: because and then you just dilute the quality?
S1: I don't know what to say in response to that.
S3: The Avengers link was not one I expected.
S1: But yeah, also calling me a marvel guy. Like, I
S1: watch these things because they are the most popular forms
S1: of commercial entertainment to exist, and I feel responsible as
S1: a person who engages with culture and mass consumption of
S1: it to be across them. Um, but yeah, I mean,
S1: I weirdly, annoyingly, I'm going to now sound like a
S1: marvel guy. Avengers. The splitting of it didn't feel like this,
S1: because I feel like there was so many storylines that
S1: had been built up over such a long period of
S1: time that there was enough to warrant two movies. I mean,
S1: we're talking about maybe like 15 hours of television across
S1: these three and four seasons. This doesn't feel like there's
S1: 15 hours or even 12 hours of storytelling to tell here.
S1: So we've got these flashbacks. We've got so many shots
S1: of Carmy deciding what micro herb to put on, so
S1: many shots of him cooking food and throwing it in
S1: the bin. And it's not clear to me what purpose
S1: they serve. You know, we had this conversation about action
S1: scenes and sex scenes and people say, what's the point
S1: of them? All these different sort of scenes can tell
S1: you something about a character. But for me, at this
S1: stage in this show, it's not clear what these scenes
S1: are supposed to represent. And Mel, you're right about Richie
S1: and Sugar being the most interesting because despite them playing
S1: specific roles in relation to how Carmy and the rest
S1: of the crew are doing, we know about their lives.
S1: We know what they're thinking about. We know what they're
S1: trying to process. We even know that Richie is obsessed
S1: with William Friedkin and Michael Mann films, right? That's like
S1: a fleshed out and interesting and compelling character who is
S1: trying to work at his job, find some meaning in
S1: his life through his profession, manage his his divorce and
S1: his kid and his ex-wife getting married. He's got he's
S1: got a relationship with the maitre d that worked at ever,
S1: the really fancy Olivia Colman restaurant. We understand all these
S1: things for Carmy. What do we what's going on in
S1: his life other than he's just, like, quite stressed out
S1: in the kitchen and misses his ex-girlfriend who's not in
S1: the show at all so far. So it's just flashbacks.
S1: It's a really bizarre situation I think the show has
S1: ended up at.
S2: And I was thinking about this a lot when watching
S2: the first five, because I particularly agree that, like, I
S2: really do unfortunately think kami is the least interesting character,
S2: and the show was so kind of like critically lauded
S2: for expanding that ensemble cast and giving everyone, like, equal billing.
S2: And then it was so funny to find the first,
S2: I mean, the first episode especially, but generally the vibe
S2: of the first five, kind of like batch of episodes
S2: is kami is like really front and center again. And
S2: I was thinking about like, what role does the reputation
S2: of the show like? Jeremy Allen white has no doubt
S2: become the biggest star from this show. Like, you know,
S2: I think Ayo Edebiri has a case also to make
S2: for how much her stock has risen. But those two really,
S2: let's say from the bear doing so well, have become
S2: like these huge pop culture figures now. And I wonder
S2: what the relationship like is between, you know, the network
S2: and the creators of the show when talking about what
S2: the season will look like. Because if you look at
S2: the trajectory of the show, it felt like Carmy was
S2: becoming less and less, you know, important and less crucial
S2: to be centered. And then suddenly we get to season
S2: three and the gap. You know, what's happened in that
S2: gap is that he's become a superstar, really. And then
S2: he's like, right back in the frame. And I was wondering,
S2: I'm like, if that kind of speaks to, I guess,
S2: you know, leveraging his star power because I wouldn't have
S2: expected it to be the case.
S1: It's a really interesting one. And also you note where
S1: like you hear these things from people like Olivia Colman
S1: and Joe McHale, who are these actors coming in for
S1: an episode or a scene or two? They're like, we
S1: just fly in for a day. We shoot our sins,
S1: we fly out. It's interesting hearing you make that point,
S1: because most of Carmy's scenes are in like 1 or
S1: 2 sets, and we know that he's like working on
S1: like a oh, so many different film projects and other
S1: things right now that maybe they're one foot in the bear,
S1: one foot out of the bear. And that then impacts
S1: the story you can tell and the scenes that these
S1: guys can be in. The other thing I wanted to
S1: ask you guys about, I think it kind of goes
S1: to the nature of what kind of show the bear is,
S1: what kind of show maybe the creators wanted to make
S1: and where it's going now. These sorts of like three, four,
S1: five season shows. Succession is like a clear standout that
S1: doesn't really fit into this because of just how kind
S1: of special it was. But these kinds of shows last
S1: because you create an ensemble cast, a dynamic, a vibe
S1: that you want to hang out with, right? Like shows
S1: like The Office, these workplace situational comedies or dramas. It's like,
S1: I want to see these guys for 20 episodes a year, whatever.
S1: Just like get up to high jinks, just do some stuff.
S1: Maybe there'll be some plot lines about love, death and marriages,
S1: and it's a little bit soapy, and this show is
S1: a little bit of that soapiness to it as well.
S1: But it's also very firmly in terms of its structure
S1: and themes, that classic kind of prestige show like more focused.
S1: It's trying to tell a particular story. It's got eight
S1: episodes here or eight episodes there. The stakes are really high.
S1: It's really grappling with big, complex ideas about trauma and
S1: life and work and family and all that sort of stuff,
S1: and it feels like it's kind of trying to do
S1: both those things and not doing it well. Like there's
S1: almost a version of the show where the stakes aren't
S1: so high, it's not so fucking intense and there's so
S1: much swearing. And it's just like today is about Marcus
S1: trying to, like, go to the donut store and figure
S1: out what his new donut recipe is. And if the
S1: tension isn't ratcheted up, you can just enjoy that. And
S1: then you look forward to the CID episode or the
S1: comedy episode. But the show doesn't want to give up
S1: being a very serious, dark kind of a series, and
S1: I think that is also feeding into why it feels
S1: a bit tonally mixed here. Do you guys have thoughts
S1: on that?
S3: Yeah, I think that's right. I think you can either
S3: develop character or plot or both if you're a great show,
S3: but this season seems to be doing none. The plot
S3: is at a stasis. The characters are at a stasis.
S3: And then what might be the experimental element of the show?
S3: And of course, like I do appreciate that he's mixing
S3: it up in the first Christopher story is mixing it
S3: up in the first episode and some of these episodes,
S3: but I don't think it's, um, I don't I don't
S3: think it's it's working. And he's lost. What did actually
S3: make the show great in the first and also to
S3: that tonal difference, there's a lot of the fact family
S3: comes into this. Matty Matheson and his brother have a
S3: bit more of a lead role in the first five episodes,
S3: and it's very clear that they're there for some comic
S3: relief in between all the yelling. But their scenes are
S3: very slapsticky, and the juxtaposition just feels really like we've
S3: got to have some hecticness now. We've got to have
S3: some lightness. And I also found that that tonally, it
S3: couldn't quite pick whether it wanted to make us laugh
S3: or cry, love or hate. It was. Yeah, it was
S3: a bit confusing.
S2: Yeah, I really found that. And, you know, we were
S2: going to talk about, I guess, like what we think
S2: is working and not working for the season. And like
S2: for me, in terms of what's not working, I would
S2: definitely say that the comedy element is it's like, again,
S2: I feel like I'm like watching the head noise of
S2: Christopher Cetera on screen. Like, not only has there been
S2: a little bit of chat around the fact that, you know,
S2: is there a bit of like, nomination fraud for The Bear?
S2: It gets nominated in the comedy category for the Emmys,
S2: and it's swept that category last season. But like this
S2: show is not a comedy, and there's always a conversation
S2: around that. But like, there was some kind of chatter
S2: online about, like, is the show like shoehorning in these
S2: comedy scenes? And it's always been kind of funny, but
S2: especially like, yeah, as you said, Mel, the fact that,
S2: you know, like Jack and his brothers have been so clearly, like,
S2: slotted in as this comedic relief and previously in previous seasons,
S2: like he had this, you know, like funny interactions with
S2: Richie and they all felt so organic as they were
S2: trying to fucking revive the beef and then start the bear.
S2: Whereas now it's like we have these really intense scenes
S2: and then we cut to fuck, like buffing a floor
S2: or trying to measure up a glass. And it's so
S2: like it just feels so jarring. It's like, you know,
S2: you're watching like comedic relief and it just has the
S2: reverse effect. And and for me, it feels like such
S2: a shame because the show has always been so good
S2: at blending this really intense trauma and drama with like,
S2: really funny bits of very natural comedy. And now it,
S2: you know, like, feels like a box is being ticked.
S1: I think what's interesting, reflecting back on season two, I
S1: don't know how you guys feel, but the two episodes
S1: just stand out to me of fishes and forks and
S1: I feel like everyone remembers those. And they came in
S1: the second half of the season and they were really big,
S1: big set piece kinds of things and doing very different things,
S1: but showing you the absolute highs and emotional lows of
S1: what television can evoke within you. If this show in
S1: its final half has a couple of episodes like that,
S1: I think that will probably drown out our issues with
S1: the first half of the season. I think it's still
S1: the key issue, still seems to be too many episodes
S1: for the amount of plot and development that they've got,
S1: but I am pretty interested to check back in next
S1: week and see how we go. But before we finish
S1: on the bear, I had a question for you guys.
S1: It kind of leads me to a prediction I want
S1: to make about where this season or where the show
S1: is going. Story wise, the food on the show is
S1: obviously a show about fine dining, restaurants and and food
S1: is a key part of it. I've started to come
S1: to the conclusion, or perhaps the realization that I don't
S1: think the food on this show looks particularly good. What
S1: do you guys think?
S2: I think I would if I was in Chicago living
S2: in this fictional universe, I would be going to the
S2: sandwich window and not the restaurant.
S3: I agree, I'm a vegetarian, but I reckon they made
S3: those beef shots look quite sumptuous compared to compared to
S3: the fine dining shots that Carmy's making.
S1: Actually sort of. You guys have stepped on my theory here.
S1: I wonder whether the arc of this show is going
S1: to be. After trying to prove himself in the fine
S1: dining world and saying, originally, I don't care about the
S1: chef's star and then going for the chef's star and
S1: realizing perhaps that dealing with all of his issues through
S1: pouring his energy into a fine dining kitchen is not
S1: the outcome here. In fact, it is alienating him and
S1: everyone else involved from the people they love. We end
S1: up back at the original Beef of Chicago, because it's
S1: interesting that this season has the guy making those sandwiches.
S1: They look great. It's successful. They're talking about how that's
S1: the only part of the business making money. I kind
S1: of think the show is going to end with them
S1: shutting down the bear and saying, let let's just make
S1: these delicious sandwiches in honor of Mike. That's that's my prediction. Yeah.
S3: That seems like a classic Carmy move to destroy everything.
S3: He's made everyone build from him and once again run
S3: away from all his troubles, financial and food, and just
S3: make sandwiches again. Yeah, that's.
S2: Like I've been saying, I'm not enjoying the show. We're
S2: not going to fucking character assassinate my boy kami. Here.
S2: A few things to add before we finish up on
S2: the bear. Uh, number one, I think maybe that is right.
S2: And I feel like they have kind of, um, given
S2: us a few, like, clues along the way. Even in
S2: episode five, there's a moment where kami, who has basically
S2: shut out everyone in his work life, family life, everything
S2: he like, you know, they drop some trays and he
S2: finds himself with Ibrahim, the guy who's running, you know,
S2: the beef sandwich window. And he just they look at
S2: each other and he's like, am I fucking this up?
S2: And I thought that was interesting. You know, he like, yeah.
S2: In the kitchen hierarchy Ibrahim is kind of like down
S2: the bottom. He's just doing the sandwich window. But he
S2: can't be like really genuinely asks him like, am I
S2: ruining this? And you're kind of.
S3: Insightful of him, isn't it? Yeah.
S2: Don't just leave him alone. But I would say it's
S2: very funny. I was reading, uh, like a story, a
S2: story from Eater.com, you know, that website. And they were
S2: talking particularly about the food. It was a food writer
S2: writing this review, and they were like, you know, the
S2: restaurants I love, they each have like an identity and
S2: a theme. And, you know, Osman, you own a restaurant.
S2: You know how important it is to to know.
S1: I feel like I'm uniquely placed out of many people
S1: in this world to comment on, on this show. Exactly.
S2: But she was like the food that I see Carmy
S2: making has like, no identity. Like, all we ever get
S2: told is that he's a genius and he's excellent, but like,
S2: none of his food seems to make sense to him.
S2: It's just like really fine dining. Like, I don't know,
S2: I don't mouth water over any of the food. I
S2: still think about the omelet from last season that Syd
S2: made like she whipped up, but the food here is
S2: just like it's the worst of what people think of
S2: fine dining, I reckon.
S1: I think that's spot on, and I think that Christopher
S1: knows enough about fine dining to understand that as well. Like,
S1: I don't think this is an accident. I think it
S1: only makes sense if it concludes with the realization that
S1: this is not authentic to him. Like we talked about this,
S1: I think in season two when they're making the bear
S1: and they're like, well, what is our menu going to be?
S1: It's like, if you don't have a vision for your menu,
S1: what the hell are you doing? You're sort of just
S1: like fulfilling this role that you've observed without that kind
S1: of creative spark, that passion that drives you. He's in
S1: the kitchen every episode. Venison with a bearnaise foam. Like,
S1: none of that makes sense. And I and I think
S1: even though it's annoying to see so much of that stuff,
S1: if the payoff is I'm a fucking idiot, these delicious
S1: beef sandwiches are the best thing in the world. That's
S1: what I'm going to do. Yeah. Fair enough.
S2: And so I just wanted to lastly ask, uh, I
S2: realize you're kind of like, uh, the uncle in your restaurant, but, like,
S2: if you came off air today and you had, like,
S2: a voicemail from your head chef and he was like, yo, Oz,
S2: I've decided we're changing the menu every single day. Uh, also,
S2: I need $1 million for micro herbs. Would you be like,
S2: absolutely not. Or would you back the creativity?
S1: Well, that's that's what the show does get I think so. Well,
S1: it nails this. The various pressures of running a restaurant
S1: in a kind of a post Covid era. It's like
S1: we want the best possible ingredients because that's how you
S1: make the best food. But that's pretty expensive and it's
S1: getting more expensive and farmers markets are struggling. We want
S1: to change the menu to be responsive to what's seasonally in,
S1: you know, being being produced or being grown. That's really
S1: hard to do. You don't have, uh, you don't have
S1: like an expectation from the people coming into the restaurant.
S1: The chefs are not always communicating effectively with the front
S1: of house. These are all the challenges. You don't make
S1: the intake you expect for that week that puts pressure on.
S1: You've got to cut back all that stuff, even down
S1: to shit. We've been reviewed this week. We didn't know
S1: they're coming to take a photo. All of that stuff
S1: plays out in fine dining land, and I think the
S1: show does that well. I think what's still kind of
S1: missing is like, to what purpose? To what purpose? That
S1: we exploring their anxieties about the fine dining space. I
S1: didn't answer your question directly, I realized, Thomas, But, um,
S1: you know, I think it's a partnership. I did. I did, though,
S1: have a message with my chef this morning about something
S1: financial related, but.
S8: We'll keep.
S1: The details of that private.
S3: I will say, I think that if it does have
S3: some standout episodes in the last five, that could save
S3: the season, because I remember absolutely hating the first five
S3: episodes of season two. I thought they were so sappy
S3: and sentimental. And and then the last half absolutely saved it.
S3: So I feel like I'm not completely ready to write
S3: off the bear. I think it could redeem itself. And
S3: even if it just has two episodes that everyone talks
S3: about forever, that that that'll be something for me.
S2: Okay, firstly, I would say you hated last season because
S2: you didn't like that there was a love story and
S2: you thought Claire was a manic pixie dream girl and
S2: you just didn't want a bar of her, which apparently
S2: seems to be in agreeance with what Christopher Storer thinks,
S2: because she's basically only exists as a flashback now.
S8: It didn't work out. Sorry, Claire, but.
S2: No, I, I remember last season I didn't dislike the
S2: first five as much as you and then the back five,
S2: like really, really crushed it. I do think even if
S2: the next five and you know, we've kind of all
S2: read ahead in terms of like a little bit of
S2: reviews and it seems that there are some really good
S2: moments coming in in the back half of the season.
S2: I still don't know, even if the next five absolutely
S2: smack it out of the park. I don't, I just
S2: know for a fact in my fucking soul that I
S2: didn't feel the same watching these first five as I
S2: have previously watching the show. Like it's just it's edged
S2: off for me and so I don't know, I think
S2: it'll yeah, unfortunately I don't know how good this season
S2: can be. Even if the next five are absolutely stellar.
S3: Will you hang up your apron?
S2: Well, I don't know. I just yeah, I have to
S2: seriously think about it.
S3: My question is, is I don't know if Molly Gordon,
S3: because I did avoid reading about the next episodes. I
S3: don't know if Molly Gordon is coming back to play Claire,
S3: and I don't know if I want her to. I
S3: don't know if that's actually going to be really good
S3: for the show or really bad. So I am interested
S3: to see how they explore that or if they if
S3: they go there.
S1: I'm very proud of all of us showing restraint in this.
S1: Thanks for. Yeah. So we'll be back next week with, uh,
S1: the next five where, you know, maybe Thomas in real
S1: time can, like, burn his apron. Um, in terms of
S1: how he's feeling, put on the Marcus beanie. Do you
S1: guys want to do a bit of a presumed innocent
S1: check in?
S3: Yes, I do, yes, I do.
S1: So you guys talked about this with Meg? Uh, really
S1: great chat. When I was off. I didn't get to
S1: talk to you guys about it. Um, we're up to
S1: episode four of that show just to put my, uh,
S1: thoughts and feelings on the table. I really like this show.
S1: I think it's great. Um, I think Jake Gyllenhaal is
S1: the best he's been since, like, Zodiac or Nightcrawler. Like
S1: he's doing really, really well doing a similar sort of job,
S1: I think. I think this show is is great. It's
S1: like one of the best crime procedurals I've seen since
S1: the night of, like, I love David E Kelley, I
S1: love Jake, I love Bill camp, I love Elisabeth Moss,
S1: like all the side characters in this Peter Sarsgaard, they're
S1: all so good and I'm so hooked. And I sort
S1: of sometimes hate how every episode ends in that real
S1: obvious cliffhanger way. But the show is so good, and
S1: there are so many great characters and twists that I
S1: kind of don't care. I'm really, really enjoying it. And yeah,
S1: still loving it. Four apps in I.
S3: Think the Night Of is a really good comparison and
S3: I keep thinking of that. And also they keep saying
S3: the night of in the series, but subliminal.
S8: Yeah.
S1: Bill camp was in both as well.
S8: So there are a lot of obvious solutions.
S3: But I yes, I think that's spot on. Um, I
S3: was thinking about it. Why do I love this so much?
S3: It's not like it's reinventing the wheel of the crime drama,
S3: but it is so slick and the characters are all
S3: so interesting, and the plot moves so fast that it's
S3: just gripping to watch. And we talked about it with Meg,
S3: but because I haven't seen the original and I don't
S3: know if this deviates from the original book or movie
S3: at all, I really don't know who is responsible. Yeah,
S3: who done it. So, um, and they keep throwing in
S3: new contenders. So yeah, it's got me completely hooked. And
S3: I would say it's maybe the best crime show I've
S3: seen this year or in some time.
S2: Yeah, I reckon it's 100% one of the shows of
S2: the year. And it is funny because it's because it's
S2: David E Kelley. It does. It almost feels like it's
S2: it feels very contemporary and stuff, but it feels also
S2: very 90s like, especially with the cliffhanger thing at the
S2: end of each episode. And it's like, you know, big
S2: moment and then like you kind of like shock and
S2: awe and then like, the credits roll. I feel like
S2: that's such a 90s tool that they used to use
S2: in these shows, especially David E Kelley. Um, but yeah,
S2: I think it's it's definitely one of the shows of
S2: the year and especially, I guess, you know, coming off
S2: the back of talking about the bear. But again, I
S2: reckon like the ensemble casting for this Is so good, like,
S2: you could, I could happily watch an entire bottle episode
S2: of Peter Sarsgaard being a fucking slime ball or like,
S2: I mean, we do get so much of Bill camp
S2: and his wife and even their home life is like
S2: such an interesting dynamic. Like everyone, you.
S1: Know, they're a real couple in real life.
S8: No, really.
S1: Yeah, yeah. Elizabeth Marvel and Bill camp, which I think
S1: adds an awesome layer. It makes it feel so real
S1: watching them.
S8: Yeah.
S2: Especially especially because like the way they bicker feels so
S2: real and she's like concerned about his health. But you know,
S2: like it's yeah, that's great. I didn't know that. Um,
S2: but yeah, like I just think it's across the board,
S2: you know, like we spoke in last week's episode about,
S2: you know, I guess like crime shows and the idea of, like,
S2: another really gruesome death to a young woman and how
S2: that is becoming tired. And yet, here we are. I
S2: do feel like, unfortunately, this show like slots neatly into
S2: those categories. And yet it feels like one of the
S2: most gripping shows of the year.
S3: And if you compare the two leads, Jeremy Allen White
S3: as Carmy and Jake Gyllenhaal, they're both moody and hot,
S3: quote unquote and complete quote unquote complicated men, but who
S3: don't say a lot and are obviously just kind of
S3: messing up their lives and everyone else's in the process
S3: of dealing with their issues. But like the way they
S3: do it with Jake Gyllenhaal, it's complicated. It's way more
S3: complicated than what they're doing with kami. And you kind
S3: of hate him. You feel for him, you understand him.
S3: It it has a different emotional complexity to it. I
S3: think if you're looking at those leads.
S2: Would you say he's so.
S8: Sexy?
S1: Jake Gyllenhaal I mean, he's incredibly jacked in this. It's
S1: crazy how jacked he is.
S8: I know I was.
S3: Thinking like, if that was my I don't want to
S3: say daddy, but like.
S8: You can say daddy.
S3: If I was those children and that was my dad. Like,
S3: imagine having Jake Gyllenhaal looking like that as your father.
S1: Yeah, he's come off the, um, the road. What's that film?
S8: Oh, yeah. Roadhouse.
S1: Yeah. He's come off the Roadhouse set just straight into, like,
S1: playing a prosecutor. And there's a couple of scenes in
S1: the first few where he swims a lot, so you're like, oh,
S1: that's why he's jacked. I don't think you get that
S1: jacked from doing a couple of laps. Uh, Jake G.
S3: I mean, he's doing a bit of other physical activity
S3: as well.
S8: I mean, also, I.
S2: Think, like we've all seen enough, like police, prosecutors. My
S2: dad's a criminal lawyer. I've been to work with him. No,
S2: fucking none of them look like Jake Gyllenhaal. They look
S2: like Bill camp.
S3: I love that you brought your dad into it.
S1: To go back to your point, Mel, about, you know,
S1: how it compares to the film. I've seen the film.
S1: I don't know whether or not like it'll resolve itself
S1: in the same way. And I've got to say, even
S1: if I've seen the film, I don't like, the show
S1: has enough going on that I'm still pretty fascinated and
S1: glued to my seat. One of the most obvious changes
S1: that I think is a really great change, and you
S1: probably won't be surprised to hear this. The role of
S1: Caroline Polhemus, the murdered woman played by Greta Scacchi in
S1: the film, very reflective of the social attitude towards like
S1: women in Hollywood in the 90s in the sense that
S1: she's basically, like, slut shamed for what she's done and
S1: you don't really feel, I mean, like, you obviously feel
S1: sorry for her because she's dead, but the film is
S1: not that sympathetic to her. Whereas I think the character here,
S1: played by Renate Reinsve, is far more interesting, far more complicated.
S1: She gets around to like life before you find out
S1: a lot more about her. And I think that's a
S1: really smart change that they've made to the show. And
S1: just the last thing I want to say, I don't
S1: know how to pronounce his last name. O-T Fagbenle, who
S1: plays Nico Della Guardia, who's from the, um, he's so good, too.
S1: He's so good. And he he's English, so he doesn't
S1: sound like that. So he's doing this thing with, like,
S1: his chin jutting forward and that kind of like, you know,
S1: arrogant tone that he has. I would watch an entire
S1: spin off show, like David E Kelley loves doing spin offs.
S1: I'd love to see him just being this kind of
S1: dodgy chief prosecutor. Uh, in, in Chicago, just.
S2: Bullying Peter Sarsgaard. Those two.
S8: Together are.
S2: So they make my skin.
S8: Crawl, I love it.
S2: It's. Yeah, it's it's it's it's such a good show. And, um,
S2: I annoyingly I watched ahead on the screen as which
S2: we get access to for review purposes, but they don't
S2: drop the finale until like, the data goes here, which
S2: is still a month away. So I'm now just like
S2: kind of stewing on this, but, uh, yeah, that's obviously I.
S1: Thought about going ahead with the screeners, but I decided
S1: against that for that reason. I don't want to catch
S1: up and have to wait a month. But no, I'm
S1: super hooked. And maybe we should check in again at
S1: the finale and see if it's delivered. All right, guys,
S1: before we round out, we've got our regular Impress Your
S1: Friends segment sharing something we've watched, read, listened to, Consumed
S1: in culture over the past week. Thomas, why don't you
S1: go first on this one?
S2: Yeah. Perfect. Uh, this is another TV show. Uh, I thought, look,
S2: we all know, uh, the countdown to the Olympics is on. It's,
S2: I don't know, however many days away. And, you know,
S2: we've all kind of really gotten into these, like, fly
S2: on the wall sports documentaries that Netflix has been doing
S2: breakpoint and, um, like the football ones and the, you know,
S2: NFL ones and stuff. But this is Sprint on Netflix. Uh,
S2: it comes out on Friday. It's ten episodes, and I
S2: found it so fascinating and like, so basically it takes
S2: you inside the particularly the 100 metre male sprint circuit
S2: in the year leading up to the Olympic final. Uh,
S2: and I guess it's always been the blue ribbon event
S2: for the Olympics. You know, obviously Usain Bolt won it
S2: three Olympics in a row. It's kind of that one
S2: event that everyone tunes into. It's like everything to athletics.
S2: And it follows, I guess, the major contenders. And I
S2: just found it so interesting to meet these guys. The
S2: first episode is basically about the Olympic champion, the Italian
S2: Marcell Jacobs, and then like the next up and comer,
S2: Noah Lyles, this young American guy. And basically those two
S2: are going to be like it seems battling it out
S2: at the Olympics. But it just shows you like what
S2: goes into the training for this, how insane it is
S2: to like spend your life basically working on a nine
S2: second run. It did the exact thing that I want
S2: a sports documentary to do, which is like give you
S2: insight into a part of this, I guess, like arena
S2: that you never really go into or you have no
S2: interest in. So yeah, that Sprint on Netflix, I really,
S2: really enjoyed it.
S1: Great shot. Very excited to watch a bunch of sport
S1: docos in the lead up to the greatest sporting event
S1: every four years.
S3: Mine actually is also a sporting choice. Like if this
S3: isn't enough reason why we shouldn't be enough to get
S3: us sent to the Olympics, I don't know what is.
S8: I reckon that's a long shot.
S1: Every time I bigger issues in the fire, Mel. Yeah.
S3: That's true. Still, every time I see the sports editor here,
S3: I'm like, we're ready to go. Like, we've got our
S3: bags packed. Um. Uh, mine is the tour de France.
S1: Oh, thank God someone mentioned this.
S3: Which I know you're a big fan of. I don't
S3: think we've quite convinced you, Thomas, yet to get into cycling,
S3: but I would like to.
S2: It is very funny. Like whenever we talk in our
S2: group chat, there's very few things that, like all three
S2: of us don't like, discuss together. And then whenever you
S2: guys are talking cycling, have you noticed I just disappear
S2: for like a day?
S8: Yeah, yeah.
S1: I think you and I have a couple of things
S1: that we just talk that Mel politely ignores, probably for
S1: like sake of her mental health and sanity. But there
S1: are not many things that just Mel and I are
S1: on a track on that you aren't in. And it's
S1: like Latour is the main one. It is.
S8: Yeah.
S3: That's it. It's stage five tonight on SBS. Um, if
S3: you never watched it, I honestly think you don't have
S3: to be across the rules because cycling tours can be
S3: very confusing. There's lots going on. There's a lot of people, teams, strategy, rules, positions.
S3: I don't even think you need to worry about that.
S3: You can just turn it on and watch six hours
S3: of lovely countryside people riding their bikes. Great commentary team
S3: Matthew Keenan, Bridie O'Donnell, Simon Gerrans this perfect mix of
S3: kind of medical expertise, cycling expertise, cycling knowledge and just
S3: enjoy yourself, enjoy the tour. Pets that pop on. That's
S3: when people send pictures of their pets watching the tour.
S3: Enjoy the food. It's just delightful. And Thomas, can you
S3: watch it?
S1: I couldn't agree more. We should have done a whole
S1: episode on this like it is amazing to watch. There
S1: was a bit of the trivia that you get gourmet
S1: cooking telling you what regional cuisine is like. There was
S1: this bit where Brady was talking about that, a town
S1: in Italy, because the tour started this year in Italy, um,
S1: that they're going through and they're like that building there
S1: that there was like this helicopter shot. This old museum
S1: holds the Beretta pistol that was used to shoot Benito Mussolini. Yeah.
S1: And I'm like, that is awesome. I am just watching
S1: a bunch of weird men cycle and I'm learning some history. Uh,
S1: I'm learning some details about the history of Italian fascism.
S1: That is great.
S2: Do you feel like, does it relax you? Because it's
S2: often before bed, and I feel like you guys are
S2: texting while I'm, like, trying to go to sleep and
S2: you're like, ah, yeah. And this is like, is it
S2: a cathartic thing?
S3: It is. It is very pleasant view. But I also
S3: really do admire the athleticism of these men competing like
S3: they go back to back for three weeks. They're covering
S3: hundreds of kilometers at gradients that are I mean, I
S3: don't know if you've ever ridden a bike, but gradients
S3: that are completely insane and they fall off and they
S3: get sick and they just keep going because they have
S3: this one opportunity. And their window professionally for competing is
S3: so small that it really is high stakes. And then
S3: you kind of wonder, like there's not heaps of money
S3: in cycling, like it's not a sport.
S8: That that freaks, that.
S3: Total freaks they're doing this for. It's just I really
S3: admire that too.
S1: I think it's similar to test cricket in a way,
S1: in that so much of it is just very peaceful
S1: and meditative to watch, and quite beautiful in terms of
S1: the aerial shots over the French countryside. But then there
S1: are these moments that kind of come up out of nowhere,
S1: where someone will just challenge someone to win a point
S1: in a sprint or in a climb, and you just
S1: see something really exciting, and then it just goes back
S1: to being this relaxing lull of the waves just gently
S1: crashing over you as you try to go to sleep.
S1: It's great stuff.
S3: And also man the field art. So in the tour
S3: there's a whole thing where like there's everyone in the
S3: field does like artwork and they're they're insane. Like when
S3: you see hundreds of tractors going around in a circle
S3: to make the wheel of a bike, it. Yeah. Look,
S3: just watch it tonight. We'll text.
S8: Okay, fine.
S2: I will give it a go. You have impressed me,
S2: and I am your friend. So, look, I.
S8: No doubt.
S2: Our listeners will get on.
S1: Board. That's why we called it that. That's why we
S1: called it that. Um, mine is a TV show. Um,
S1: you guys remember the film that came out in 1994?
S1: Interview with the vampire?
S8: I do, yeah, starring.
S1: Brad Pitt and Tom cruise. Kirsten Dunst, Christian Slater, based
S1: on the novels by Anne Rice. Turns out, like, quietly,
S1: for the last two years, there's been one of the
S1: best TV series around. That is an adaptation of the
S1: books as well. It's a TV adaptation compared to a
S1: film adaptation. It's on ABC iview actually. Interview with a vampire.
S1: It stars Australia's Sam Reid, also Jacob Anderson. It's really,
S1: really good. It's not that kind of like True Blood
S1: Twilight sort of thing. It's a bit darker, a bit
S1: more interesting. It feels more contemporary in terms of what
S1: it's trying to grapple with. The books famously have these
S1: quite sharp, queer themes to them that the film largely eradicated,
S1: like very, very subtle. They're they're back in this in
S1: a really interesting and fun and sharp way. And I
S1: think it reminded me of, like, the Ripley TV adaptation
S1: in that way, where we had this Ripley film that
S1: was great, but, you know, softened some of the edges
S1: of the original source material, and then it takes you
S1: some time to to delve back into them. Interview with
S1: a vampire is is doing that. It's sort of like
S1: going back to the text and picking the bits that
S1: are interesting, but maybe didn't feel right in the in
S1: the early to mid 90s. It's just been renewed for
S1: a third season, but the first two are on iview.
S1: If you're just looking for something that's like fun and
S1: interesting and dramatic, give this series a go. Sam Reid
S1: people might know him from the newsreader. He's really great.
S1: Great Australian actor. Great in this series. That's my rec.
S3: That's a good one. Is it scary?
S1: No, I wouldn't say so.
S8: Yeah, but.
S3: You're pretty brave.
S1: It's like a it's like about vampires, but like a
S1: horror themed show, you know, it's like American Horror Story.
S1: It's not going to make you, uh, jump up and be.
S1: I mean, it might. I don't know about your threshold
S1: for these things.
S8: I mean.
S2: Considering you spent the last six weeks just watching polite.
S8: Countryside and, you know, tractor art, I.
S3: Get the heebie jeebies pretty easily.
S1: Guys, that was a great conversation about a bunch of television.
S1: Looking forward to your thoughts on the tour, and looking
S1: forward to chatting with you guys next week about what
S1: will hopefully be a better and more redeeming second half
S1: of the bear.
S3: Looking forward to.
S8: It. Let it rip.
S1: This episode of The Drop was produced by Kai Huang.
S1: If you enjoyed listening to today's episode of The Drop,
S1: make sure to follow us in your favorite podcast app.
S1: Leave us a review or better yet, share it with
S1: a friend! I'm Usman Farooqui. See you next week!