1
00:00:07,880 --> 00:00:10,490
S1: Hey, I'm Osman Farooqui and this is the drop a

2
00:00:10,490 --> 00:00:13,309
S1: culture show from the Sydney Morning Herald and The Age,

3
00:00:13,310 --> 00:00:15,650
S1: where we dive into the latest in the world of

4
00:00:15,650 --> 00:00:19,160
S1: pop culture and entertainment. I'm here with Mel Kambouris and

5
00:00:19,160 --> 00:00:21,080
S1: Thomas Mitchell. What's up team?

6
00:00:21,110 --> 00:00:23,270
S2: Oh, you know, just here in the podcast I realize

7
00:00:23,270 --> 00:00:27,740
S2: I am like wearing a chef themed outfit for today's podcast.

8
00:00:27,740 --> 00:00:29,310
S2: It's a visual gag. I just Just wanted to get

9
00:00:29,310 --> 00:00:31,050
S2: ahead of it. Um, what do you mean?

10
00:00:31,050 --> 00:00:34,350
S3: You realize you, like, put it on and sat down?

11
00:00:34,380 --> 00:00:36,300
S2: Well, I just thought it would be appropriate. Yeah.

12
00:00:36,479 --> 00:00:39,810
S1: For people who can't look at Thomas, which is most

13
00:00:39,810 --> 00:00:42,870
S1: of you, because this is a podcast. He's wearing a

14
00:00:42,870 --> 00:00:46,229
S1: white t shirt, his famous white t shirts with a

15
00:00:46,320 --> 00:00:50,280
S1: dark blue navy blue apron in the style of Carmy

16
00:00:50,280 --> 00:00:53,500
S1: Berzatto from the bear. He looks very good in it.

17
00:00:53,500 --> 00:00:55,270
S1: But you were saying you don't think that apron is

18
00:00:55,270 --> 00:00:58,000
S1: particularly robust? It's not going to mop up spills?

19
00:00:58,000 --> 00:01:00,250
S2: No, this is not. This is obviously like an apron

20
00:01:00,250 --> 00:01:02,680
S2: that's been made for to be sent out to journalists.

21
00:01:02,680 --> 00:01:04,600
S2: You would never wear this in a kitchen, I don't think.

22
00:01:04,870 --> 00:01:07,029
S3: And the reason Thomas has this is because he has

23
00:01:07,030 --> 00:01:09,820
S3: such a reputation in the office for being obsessed with

24
00:01:09,819 --> 00:01:12,490
S3: the bear, that one of our fashion writers received it

25
00:01:12,490 --> 00:01:14,470
S3: in the mail, and then placed it as a little

26
00:01:14,470 --> 00:01:16,960
S3: surprise on his desk, along with a hat. Yes.

27
00:01:16,959 --> 00:01:18,800
S2: Correct. That was very nice of him. A hat that

28
00:01:18,800 --> 00:01:21,560
S2: says yes, chef. Uh, so yeah, very nice to dress

29
00:01:21,560 --> 00:01:23,870
S2: as Carmy, um, even before we get a chance to

30
00:01:23,870 --> 00:01:25,699
S2: talk about him, but otherwise all good.

31
00:01:26,060 --> 00:01:27,470
S3: Will you wear it all day? Yes.

32
00:01:27,470 --> 00:01:28,010
S2: Correct.

33
00:01:28,310 --> 00:01:30,560
S1: Um, yeah. You've probably guessed that we will be talking

34
00:01:30,560 --> 00:01:33,590
S1: about the pair on on today's show. But before we

35
00:01:33,590 --> 00:01:37,910
S1: get there, congratulations, Thomas, on predicting origin. Last week you

36
00:01:37,910 --> 00:01:40,160
S1: said blues by 20. Very impressive. It's what happened.

37
00:01:40,160 --> 00:01:42,180
S2: I know I like I mean, I've been telling you

38
00:01:42,180 --> 00:01:44,580
S2: guys for ages, if you just follow me and especially

39
00:01:44,580 --> 00:01:48,720
S2: follow me, like when I go heavily into financial like predictions,

40
00:01:48,720 --> 00:01:51,300
S2: then you'll be all right. Uh, literally. I picked the

41
00:01:51,300 --> 00:01:53,670
S2: scoreline and I can't wait to do the same thing.

42
00:01:53,670 --> 00:01:55,320
S2: I think July 17th is game three.

43
00:01:55,320 --> 00:01:58,710
S3: So can I ask what ballpark of money or winnings

44
00:01:58,710 --> 00:01:59,400
S3: you made?

45
00:02:00,060 --> 00:02:03,570
S2: It was actually a pretty good one, to be honest.

46
00:02:03,570 --> 00:02:04,800
S2: Yeah it was. Have you so.

47
00:02:04,800 --> 00:02:06,430
S1: Good. He doesn't want to say the number. So the

48
00:02:06,430 --> 00:02:09,790
S1: tax man doesn't find out. Correct. Before we get into

49
00:02:09,790 --> 00:02:11,920
S1: the guts of today's app, I wanted to ask you

50
00:02:11,919 --> 00:02:16,480
S1: guys if you had seen these photos that emerged from

51
00:02:16,480 --> 00:02:19,059
S1: Gladiator two. I'm not sure if they're like set photos

52
00:02:19,060 --> 00:02:23,140
S1: or their official released film stills. They were part of

53
00:02:23,139 --> 00:02:27,100
S1: a Vanity Fair first look profile on this film. So

54
00:02:27,100 --> 00:02:30,230
S1: this is Ridley Scott doing the sequel. No Russell Crowe

55
00:02:30,230 --> 00:02:33,620
S1: but yes to Paul Mescal, yes to Joseph Quinn, yes

56
00:02:33,620 --> 00:02:37,580
S1: to Denzel Washington. I thought these looked pretty sick. You

57
00:02:37,580 --> 00:02:41,060
S1: guys know that I'm, you know, not super high on Paul.

58
00:02:41,060 --> 00:02:42,950
S1: I'm a bit sad that rusty is not going to

59
00:02:42,950 --> 00:02:46,460
S1: be in this one, but looking at these photos and

60
00:02:46,460 --> 00:02:49,250
S1: particularly like the fit that Denzel is in got me

61
00:02:49,250 --> 00:02:51,739
S1: really excited. What did you guys think?

62
00:02:51,950 --> 00:02:53,580
S3: Oh man. You know, I've got a lot of time

63
00:02:53,580 --> 00:02:56,700
S3: for Denzel, especially lately. I think I've watched every single

64
00:02:56,700 --> 00:02:59,040
S3: film he has been in in the last year. Like

65
00:02:59,040 --> 00:03:03,120
S3: Denzel Washington has been my genre. So I'm really excited. Yeah,

66
00:03:03,120 --> 00:03:06,390
S3: all the equalizers, man on, man on Fire, all of them. Um,

67
00:03:06,389 --> 00:03:09,750
S3: I'm excited to see him in it. I think the

68
00:03:09,750 --> 00:03:11,760
S3: pictures looked good, right? Like, I know I've had a

69
00:03:11,760 --> 00:03:14,190
S3: bit of concerns about Ridley Scott because of Napoleon, that

70
00:03:14,190 --> 00:03:17,560
S3: it might just be a kind of big men doing

71
00:03:17,560 --> 00:03:20,380
S3: big men things, but I don't know, it made me excited.

72
00:03:20,380 --> 00:03:22,510
S3: But also what I'm really excited about is that we

73
00:03:22,510 --> 00:03:26,830
S3: might have a barbenheimer match up with Wicked and Gladiator

74
00:03:26,830 --> 00:03:30,280
S3: coming out on the same day in November. That's gonna

75
00:03:30,280 --> 00:03:30,580
S3: be huge.

76
00:03:31,150 --> 00:03:32,980
S2: Gladiator clicking.

77
00:03:33,250 --> 00:03:33,850
S1: Click click.

78
00:03:33,850 --> 00:03:36,880
S3: It's good. Oh, we should coin that here first.

79
00:03:36,880 --> 00:03:39,370
S2: Yeah, I don't know. I like the more I hear

80
00:03:39,370 --> 00:03:41,780
S2: about this movie, the more I feel like it's increasingly

81
00:03:41,780 --> 00:03:45,680
S2: an internet play. Like it's got Pedro Pascal and Paul

82
00:03:45,680 --> 00:03:48,650
S2: Mescal and everyone else that rhymes. Like I just, I

83
00:03:48,650 --> 00:03:52,100
S2: don't know if it's going to be that good. Like, I,

84
00:03:52,100 --> 00:03:54,290
S2: I really like the photos of Paul. I, you know,

85
00:03:54,290 --> 00:03:55,970
S2: I'm here for Paul. I'm not part of the anti

86
00:03:55,970 --> 00:03:58,850
S2: Paul brigade, um, like Osman is. I did think it

87
00:03:58,850 --> 00:04:01,460
S2: was very funny seeing some photos of Joseph Quinn online,

88
00:04:01,460 --> 00:04:03,470
S2: and it was like I saw one meme that was like, lol,

89
00:04:03,470 --> 00:04:05,030
S2: this looks like the kind of guy who leaves his

90
00:04:05,040 --> 00:04:08,490
S2: wife Ariana Grande. I thought that was I thought that

91
00:04:08,490 --> 00:04:12,720
S2: was very funny. I don't know, I just for me, Gladiator,

92
00:04:12,720 --> 00:04:15,690
S2: the first one, the initial one is such like a

93
00:04:15,690 --> 00:04:17,610
S2: great film and I just don't know if I need

94
00:04:17,610 --> 00:04:19,890
S2: to go back there. I'm happy. Like I think Russell

95
00:04:19,890 --> 00:04:23,070
S2: all power to him. You keep finding like exorcisms to

96
00:04:23,070 --> 00:04:25,710
S2: do on screen. That's where you should be now. And

97
00:04:25,710 --> 00:04:27,479
S2: I just don't know if this film is going to, like,

98
00:04:27,480 --> 00:04:28,500
S2: tarnish the legacy.

99
00:04:28,500 --> 00:04:30,460
S3: I actually found the first Gladiator because we were quite

100
00:04:30,460 --> 00:04:32,140
S3: young when it came out, and I remember watching it

101
00:04:32,140 --> 00:04:34,630
S3: with my dad. I found it quite traumatic, like that

102
00:04:34,630 --> 00:04:37,870
S3: image of the family hanging from the ropes and some

103
00:04:37,870 --> 00:04:40,960
S3: of the. Yeah, yeah. Like, I often think about it. Um,

104
00:04:40,960 --> 00:04:43,000
S3: so I'll be interested to see if they make this

105
00:04:43,000 --> 00:04:45,310
S3: one as dark and violent. I'm sure they will. Knowing

106
00:04:45,310 --> 00:04:47,890
S3: Ridley Scott and what we've seen in Napoleon.

107
00:04:47,890 --> 00:04:52,029
S1: There are so few films left that just exist as

108
00:04:52,029 --> 00:04:56,789
S1: independent standalone like pieces of culture. Everything is getting mined

109
00:04:56,790 --> 00:05:00,060
S1: and turned into IP with a million sequels. I feel like, yeah,

110
00:05:00,210 --> 00:05:04,830
S1: I'm like you, Thomas. I don't feel convinced we need

111
00:05:04,830 --> 00:05:07,800
S1: a sequel. Like if Ridley wants to get in the

112
00:05:07,800 --> 00:05:10,679
S1: dust with Paul and Denzel and Pedro Pascal, find a

113
00:05:10,680 --> 00:05:13,500
S1: project for that. But I can't help but feel like

114
00:05:13,500 --> 00:05:17,200
S1: a sequel that inevitably won't be as good or as

115
00:05:17,200 --> 00:05:20,740
S1: important as the first one kind of could sully it.

116
00:05:20,740 --> 00:05:23,650
S1: Because now it's not just Gladiator, this great film from

117
00:05:23,650 --> 00:05:27,400
S1: 24 years ago, it's Gladiator and Gladiator two. But I

118
00:05:27,400 --> 00:05:30,430
S1: have to say, yeah, some of my cynicism was was

119
00:05:30,430 --> 00:05:33,280
S1: brushed to the side just by seeing some of these photos.

120
00:05:33,279 --> 00:05:36,130
S1: And like I said, particularly Denzel, who looks fucking awesome

121
00:05:36,130 --> 00:05:39,430
S1: in that sort of blue outfit he was wearing. Very exciting.

122
00:05:39,430 --> 00:05:39,580
S1: I mean.

123
00:05:39,580 --> 00:05:41,489
S2: We all have lots of time for Denzel, but yeah,

124
00:05:41,490 --> 00:05:45,360
S2: I do think somewhere where where was he this weekend? Glastonbury,

125
00:05:45,360 --> 00:05:47,940
S2: Russell Crowe, like probably punching a dart, being like, yeah,

126
00:05:47,940 --> 00:05:50,369
S2: fuck you guys. It'll never be as good as the

127
00:05:50,370 --> 00:05:50,940
S2: first one.

128
00:05:50,940 --> 00:05:53,160
S3: I'm mainly excited for the gladiator pod, because then you

129
00:05:53,160 --> 00:05:55,289
S3: can dress as a gladiator. Like, maybe that's going to

130
00:05:55,290 --> 00:05:56,729
S3: be your thing now. Okay, cool.

131
00:05:56,730 --> 00:06:00,060
S1: You'll be dressed as Elphaba the wicked. Is she the

132
00:06:00,060 --> 00:06:00,660
S1: wicked witch?

133
00:06:00,660 --> 00:06:02,250
S3: I don't I don't know which one she is, but

134
00:06:02,250 --> 00:06:02,940
S3: I will be.

135
00:06:04,680 --> 00:06:06,419
S1: Um. Any other news you guys want to talk about

136
00:06:06,420 --> 00:06:10,469
S1: Joe Biden tanking in the presidential debate? The governor's tapping

137
00:06:10,470 --> 00:06:12,330
S1: him on the shoulder. You want to pivot to being

138
00:06:12,330 --> 00:06:13,680
S1: a political podcast for a bit?

139
00:06:13,680 --> 00:06:15,659
S2: Should I dress up as Joe Biden or.

140
00:06:15,930 --> 00:06:18,030
S3: I mean, you do stare off into space a bit.

141
00:06:18,360 --> 00:06:21,000
S1: There's there's a culture angle to that. It was a televised,

142
00:06:21,000 --> 00:06:23,670
S1: you know, debate. He didn't do very well in. No.

143
00:06:23,670 --> 00:06:26,460
S3: And then all the the video of him not dancing,

144
00:06:26,460 --> 00:06:28,830
S3: I find it quite painful to watch the whole thing.

145
00:06:28,830 --> 00:06:31,150
S3: Like I feel like I'm trying to avoid engaging with

146
00:06:31,150 --> 00:06:33,549
S3: it too much because it stresses me out when I

147
00:06:33,550 --> 00:06:35,650
S3: get into the weeds of it and really think about it.

148
00:06:35,650 --> 00:06:37,510
S1: Yeah, to be clear, it was a joke. I wasn't

149
00:06:37,510 --> 00:06:41,470
S1: planning on us having an extended conversation about Biden's chances.

150
00:06:41,470 --> 00:06:43,990
S2: I've been too busy engaging with like, the anti hot

151
00:06:43,990 --> 00:06:47,440
S2: chocolate mafia. So, unfortunately.

152
00:06:47,950 --> 00:06:49,600
S1: Uh, do you want to talk about that, Thomas? You

153
00:06:49,600 --> 00:06:52,690
S1: you had a pretty tough weekend online. You shared your

154
00:06:52,710 --> 00:06:56,940
S1: thoughts about hot chocolate and why adults shouldn't be drinking it.

155
00:06:56,940 --> 00:07:00,030
S1: And it became like you became Twitter's main character for

156
00:07:00,029 --> 00:07:02,010
S1: a weekend, which is never good. I believe I used

157
00:07:02,010 --> 00:07:03,809
S1: the term you got at Osfed.

158
00:07:03,810 --> 00:07:07,020
S2: Yeah, I was expecting a bit more like of leadership

159
00:07:07,020 --> 00:07:08,820
S2: from you because you've been there so many times. But

160
00:07:08,820 --> 00:07:11,100
S2: like of all the dumb shit I've written and I've

161
00:07:11,100 --> 00:07:13,680
S2: written some pretty dumb stuff, uh, this one really seemed

162
00:07:13,680 --> 00:07:15,960
S2: to strike a chord. I woke up on Monday morning

163
00:07:15,990 --> 00:07:19,920
S2: to like, thousands of Twitter notifications. Uh, a call from

164
00:07:19,920 --> 00:07:22,110
S2: a radio station asking me if I wanted to talk

165
00:07:22,110 --> 00:07:25,440
S2: about my drink shaming article, which was an amazing.

166
00:07:25,440 --> 00:07:27,090
S1: That one was actually my fault. They called me and

167
00:07:27,090 --> 00:07:28,560
S1: they said, do you have Thomas's number? We want to

168
00:07:28,560 --> 00:07:30,870
S1: interview him about his hot chocolate. And I said, yes,

169
00:07:30,870 --> 00:07:32,550
S1: here it is. Please give him a buzz.

170
00:07:32,550 --> 00:07:34,470
S2: And the funniest thing is like, obviously, you know, these

171
00:07:34,470 --> 00:07:37,020
S2: things happen. You write something, whatever, people don't agree with it.

172
00:07:37,020 --> 00:07:39,300
S2: And then Twitter, like takes a hold. But just I

173
00:07:39,300 --> 00:07:42,080
S2: find it so funny the some of the tweets just

174
00:07:42,080 --> 00:07:43,520
S2: like really made me laugh, even though, you know, I

175
00:07:43,520 --> 00:07:44,810
S2: would read them to my wife and she'd be like,

176
00:07:44,810 --> 00:07:46,490
S2: oh my God, that makes me so sad. This one

177
00:07:46,490 --> 00:07:49,340
S2: guy wanted me to stick my wobbly bits in a mulcher,

178
00:07:49,340 --> 00:07:52,610
S2: which I thought was particularly creative. But then there was one.

179
00:07:52,610 --> 00:07:54,320
S2: There was one that had 1000 retweets, and it was

180
00:07:54,320 --> 00:07:57,200
S2: just like, well, at least we can all agree on something.

181
00:07:57,230 --> 00:08:00,920
S2: Thomas Mitchell is a moron. So that was.

182
00:08:00,920 --> 00:08:02,960
S3: One that was just like, let the people drink what

183
00:08:02,960 --> 00:08:07,550
S3: they want, you hot chocolate eating journalist and had 15,000 likes.

184
00:08:07,730 --> 00:08:09,920
S2: So yeah, I mean, it's good. It's it was it

185
00:08:09,920 --> 00:08:13,070
S2: was a fun experience. And but I would say I

186
00:08:13,070 --> 00:08:14,690
S2: did have a hot chocolate yesterday as a way of,

187
00:08:14,690 --> 00:08:17,119
S2: you know, take like getting the heat off and it

188
00:08:17,120 --> 00:08:18,950
S2: was quite nice. But again, I stand by the fact

189
00:08:18,950 --> 00:08:20,780
S2: that it's not an everyday drink. All right.

190
00:08:20,780 --> 00:08:24,590
S1: Well, speaking of food and drink related opinions, let's talk

191
00:08:24,590 --> 00:08:26,780
S1: about the bear. Good.

192
00:08:27,620 --> 00:08:28,250
S4: You feel good?

193
00:08:29,060 --> 00:08:34,089
UU: We're gonna see. We're open. Button your lip, baby.

194
00:08:34,150 --> 00:08:37,720
S5: Let's fly or cavatelli. Enjoy. Via Wagyu. Take your.

195
00:08:37,720 --> 00:08:39,699
S6: Time. Just bear with us. One more second.

196
00:08:40,000 --> 00:08:41,200
S7: Refire.

197
00:08:42,370 --> 00:08:44,589
S6: I'm getting drilled out there. We're in.

198
00:08:46,690 --> 00:08:50,140
S5: This is a dysfunctional kitchen. Show me a functional one.

199
00:08:54,250 --> 00:08:56,230
S1: A little bit of housekeeping first. Maybe the bear is

200
00:08:56,230 --> 00:08:59,740
S1: released all in one go on Disney+. So all ten

201
00:08:59,740 --> 00:09:03,370
S1: episodes are available now of season three. It makes talking

202
00:09:03,370 --> 00:09:06,010
S1: about it kind of tricky because we don't really know

203
00:09:06,010 --> 00:09:09,160
S1: where everyone is at with the show, since everyone watches

204
00:09:09,160 --> 00:09:12,250
S1: it at a different pace. Our conversation today, we're going

205
00:09:12,250 --> 00:09:15,309
S1: to focus on the first five episodes, and we'll talk

206
00:09:15,309 --> 00:09:18,210
S1: about the second half of the season next week. So

207
00:09:18,210 --> 00:09:22,230
S1: our conversation will include spoilers up to and including episode five.

208
00:09:22,230 --> 00:09:24,150
S1: If you haven't watched that fight and you don't want

209
00:09:24,150 --> 00:09:26,640
S1: to be spoiled, maybe catch up and then come back

210
00:09:26,640 --> 00:09:29,760
S1: to us. There's a few different threads to how I

211
00:09:29,760 --> 00:09:32,820
S1: think we should tackle this conversation. This was one of

212
00:09:32,820 --> 00:09:36,660
S1: our most anticipated shows of the year. The critical and

213
00:09:36,660 --> 00:09:40,680
S1: audience reception to season three has been more mixed than

214
00:09:40,679 --> 00:09:43,800
S1: the first two, which was basically universal acclaim and a

215
00:09:43,800 --> 00:09:46,320
S1: swag of Emmys. I want to talk about how the

216
00:09:46,320 --> 00:09:48,960
S1: season is being received, and what that might tell us

217
00:09:48,960 --> 00:09:51,270
S1: about how people are feeling about this kind of television

218
00:09:51,270 --> 00:09:52,770
S1: right now. But first, I just want to talk to

219
00:09:52,770 --> 00:09:56,640
S1: you guys about what you think of this season. The

220
00:09:56,640 --> 00:10:01,380
S1: first episode in particular elicited some very, very strong responses.

221
00:10:01,410 --> 00:10:05,130
S1: Season two ends with Kimmy locked in the freezer at

222
00:10:05,130 --> 00:10:08,020
S1: the restaurant. He's screaming at Cousin Richie. He's fighting with

223
00:10:08,020 --> 00:10:11,589
S1: his girlfriend Claire. When we pick things back up with

224
00:10:11,590 --> 00:10:14,979
S1: the premiere of season three, we have this very non-linear,

225
00:10:14,980 --> 00:10:20,560
S1: largely exposition and dialogue free episode. It's a little bit experimental.

226
00:10:20,559 --> 00:10:22,600
S1: It takes us a little bit after the events of

227
00:10:22,600 --> 00:10:27,040
S1: the season two finale, but it mainly focuses on Kimmy's past.

228
00:10:27,040 --> 00:10:30,319
S1: What did you guys make of this Pretty wild way

229
00:10:30,320 --> 00:10:33,200
S1: to kick off a very highly anticipated season of a

230
00:10:33,200 --> 00:10:34,100
S1: TV show.

231
00:10:34,130 --> 00:10:37,699
S3: Yeah, I feel that third seasons are tough for any show.

232
00:10:37,700 --> 00:10:40,640
S3: It's a make or break point, and the bear finished

233
00:10:40,640 --> 00:10:43,970
S3: on such a powerful note last time it reached such

234
00:10:43,970 --> 00:10:47,120
S3: a climactic peak that it was always going to be

235
00:10:47,120 --> 00:10:50,120
S3: hard to follow. I actually think if there hadn't been

236
00:10:50,120 --> 00:10:52,160
S3: a season break and this had been attached to the

237
00:10:52,160 --> 00:10:55,020
S3: last season, this episode might have worked better. It might

238
00:10:55,020 --> 00:10:57,540
S3: have been just what we needed after the highs of

239
00:10:57,540 --> 00:11:00,120
S3: kami being locked in the fridge. But to start a

240
00:11:00,120 --> 00:11:04,920
S3: new season, I thought this episode was self-indulgent and annoying,

241
00:11:04,920 --> 00:11:09,030
S3: and it actually really summarized what's wrong with the rest

242
00:11:09,030 --> 00:11:11,670
S3: of the season. I will say we've only seen up

243
00:11:11,670 --> 00:11:13,860
S3: to five, and I. I feel like from what I've read,

244
00:11:13,860 --> 00:11:16,110
S3: there's some high notes coming in the rest of the season,

245
00:11:16,110 --> 00:11:18,189
S3: and we know from the second season, I think some

246
00:11:18,190 --> 00:11:20,470
S3: of the best episodes came in the second half. So,

247
00:11:20,470 --> 00:11:22,300
S3: I mean, I will caveat with we've only seen the

248
00:11:22,300 --> 00:11:24,760
S3: top one, but this episode just summed it up. It's

249
00:11:24,760 --> 00:11:29,679
S3: kind of reliance on melodrama, it's obsession with montages, it's

250
00:11:29,679 --> 00:11:33,100
S3: obsession with throwing back into the past. It's kind of weird,

251
00:11:33,100 --> 00:11:38,140
S3: heavy handed use of music. It's a very aimless episode,

252
00:11:38,140 --> 00:11:42,830
S3: I don't know, like kami is obsessed with, like, continuously evolving.

253
00:11:42,830 --> 00:11:44,810
S3: And that's a bit of a theme through the episode.

254
00:11:44,809 --> 00:11:47,420
S3: But like, the show has not done that. And I

255
00:11:47,420 --> 00:11:50,929
S3: think this first EP really summarizes what my issues are

256
00:11:50,929 --> 00:11:51,980
S3: with the first five.

257
00:11:52,070 --> 00:11:54,320
S2: Yeah, I mean, it pains me to say this, given

258
00:11:54,320 --> 00:11:58,190
S2: I'm literally sat here dressed like kami as an adult,

259
00:11:58,190 --> 00:12:01,130
S2: but like, yeah, I feel I mean, I guess in

260
00:12:01,130 --> 00:12:04,069
S2: answer to your question about the episode, one in particular,

261
00:12:04,070 --> 00:12:08,130
S2: I did really think it was a like a style

262
00:12:08,130 --> 00:12:11,520
S2: over substance thing. It just felt so overblown to me. Like,

263
00:12:11,520 --> 00:12:14,219
S2: you know, it was undoubtedly beautiful. The show has never

264
00:12:14,220 --> 00:12:15,959
S2: had an issue with the way it looks and the

265
00:12:15,960 --> 00:12:18,150
S2: way it feels like, you know, the shots were beautiful,

266
00:12:18,150 --> 00:12:20,880
S2: the food looks beautiful. It's hard to not take a

267
00:12:20,880 --> 00:12:24,179
S2: nice take in Copenhagen like, you know, because we see

268
00:12:24,210 --> 00:12:26,640
S2: Carmy kind of like revisiting all the places he's worked.

269
00:12:26,640 --> 00:12:29,040
S2: And essentially we're meant to be learning about how he

270
00:12:29,040 --> 00:12:31,929
S2: came to be this kind of anxious mess of a

271
00:12:31,929 --> 00:12:35,080
S2: guy who kind of repeats the cycle of abuse, blah, blah, blah.

272
00:12:35,080 --> 00:12:38,410
S2: But like, I just found it. That could have been

273
00:12:38,410 --> 00:12:41,439
S2: a montage in a part of the episode rather than

274
00:12:41,440 --> 00:12:44,050
S2: basically the entire episode. And, you know, I understand we're

275
00:12:44,050 --> 00:12:48,040
S2: coming off the back of the finale, which was so tense.

276
00:12:48,040 --> 00:12:50,260
S2: And I you know, I think that fight between Richie

277
00:12:50,260 --> 00:12:52,420
S2: and Carmy in the fridge was like one of the

278
00:12:52,420 --> 00:12:55,610
S2: best scenes of the series. And maybe this, you know,

279
00:12:55,610 --> 00:12:57,260
S2: they wanted to really change the pace when they were

280
00:12:57,260 --> 00:12:59,570
S2: bringing us back into the show. But I felt like

281
00:12:59,570 --> 00:13:03,140
S2: it just was really kind of limp. Um, you know, like,

282
00:13:03,140 --> 00:13:05,330
S2: it's so funny that we constantly get this mantra from

283
00:13:05,330 --> 00:13:08,270
S2: Chef Terry of, like, every Second Counts. And the show

284
00:13:08,270 --> 00:13:11,209
S2: is like, not thinking about that at all. Instead, we're

285
00:13:11,210 --> 00:13:13,520
S2: just kind of being forced to be like, oh, look

286
00:13:13,520 --> 00:13:15,620
S2: at all these pretty pictures. And, you know, I think

287
00:13:15,620 --> 00:13:18,420
S2: in what Mel said, I think really agree with that

288
00:13:18,420 --> 00:13:20,219
S2: is a snapshot of what I think a lot of

289
00:13:20,220 --> 00:13:22,679
S2: the issues with the first five episodes of season three

290
00:13:22,679 --> 00:13:24,840
S2: are so far. Um, for me anyway, I don't know,

291
00:13:24,840 --> 00:13:26,969
S2: I feel like oseman I know that you watched it

292
00:13:26,970 --> 00:13:29,099
S2: in a particular context and you seem to dig it.

293
00:13:29,100 --> 00:13:31,050
S1: Well, I will say that I think there is a

294
00:13:31,050 --> 00:13:34,170
S1: structural problem with this season, and it goes to the

295
00:13:34,170 --> 00:13:37,650
S1: first episode as well that I think you touched on.

296
00:13:38,040 --> 00:13:41,630
S1: This was supposed to be a three season arc, and

297
00:13:41,630 --> 00:13:45,260
S1: the success of the first two has prompted Disney or Fox,

298
00:13:45,260 --> 00:13:48,410
S1: or whichever Disney subsidiary is in charge of this, to

299
00:13:48,410 --> 00:13:52,400
S1: say to the creator, Chris Storer, hey, we want four seasons,

300
00:13:52,400 --> 00:13:56,150
S1: and I think it really feels like he's taking a

301
00:13:56,150 --> 00:13:59,720
S1: season's worth of stuff and stretching it out over two seasons.

302
00:13:59,720 --> 00:14:02,240
S1: Like at that point you made about every second counting

303
00:14:02,240 --> 00:14:03,860
S1: that not happening. I think that's really spot on. I

304
00:14:03,860 --> 00:14:07,830
S1: feel like there's big moments of this season, either entire

305
00:14:07,830 --> 00:14:10,469
S1: episodes or bits of episodes that just feel like filler,

306
00:14:10,470 --> 00:14:14,100
S1: that aren't really driving things forward or not taking the

307
00:14:14,100 --> 00:14:16,380
S1: kinds of swings or the big set pieces that we've

308
00:14:16,380 --> 00:14:19,530
S1: come to love and appreciate from the show. And I

309
00:14:19,560 --> 00:14:21,660
S1: hear you guys on the first episode as well, and

310
00:14:21,660 --> 00:14:23,670
S1: I can see why it didn't work for a lot

311
00:14:23,670 --> 00:14:26,430
S1: of people. I had a slightly different response to it.

312
00:14:26,430 --> 00:14:27,960
S1: And I'm not trying to say that if you didn't

313
00:14:27,960 --> 00:14:30,610
S1: like it, you're wrong or anything like that, but. And

314
00:14:30,610 --> 00:14:32,620
S1: it may have to do with my mental state. Thomas,

315
00:14:32,620 --> 00:14:34,690
S1: you and I, I was in Sydney. We were hanging out.

316
00:14:34,690 --> 00:14:37,989
S1: We had a wonderful night at a wonderful restaurant in

317
00:14:37,990 --> 00:14:41,200
S1: Sydney and Newtown. Delicious food, delicious drink. I caught a

318
00:14:41,200 --> 00:14:43,570
S1: flight the next morning. I was like a bit tired,

319
00:14:43,690 --> 00:14:46,330
S1: a bit emotional in a certain mental state. And I

320
00:14:46,330 --> 00:14:52,030
S1: watched this episode of television that I found visually quite beautiful.

321
00:14:52,030 --> 00:14:55,070
S1: You know, I think Chris stories like using the cash

322
00:14:55,070 --> 00:14:56,990
S1: that he's got and the budget, he's got to just

323
00:14:56,990 --> 00:14:59,030
S1: flex his muscles a little bit. And part of me

324
00:14:59,030 --> 00:15:01,940
S1: respects that. Like, you've created two seasons of a great show.

325
00:15:01,940 --> 00:15:04,130
S1: Everyone loves you. You can kind of do whatever you want.

326
00:15:04,130 --> 00:15:07,010
S1: Your apex now. And he said, I want an episode

327
00:15:07,010 --> 00:15:08,150
S1: that I just want to, like, have a bit of

328
00:15:08,150 --> 00:15:10,250
S1: fun in that I want to shoot in an interesting

329
00:15:10,250 --> 00:15:13,220
S1: way that I want to make a little bit daring,

330
00:15:13,220 --> 00:15:16,130
S1: a little bit experimental. I kind of appreciated that. I'm

331
00:15:16,130 --> 00:15:18,600
S1: glad the whole season isn't that. I think it's interesting

332
00:15:18,600 --> 00:15:21,180
S1: and nice of him to stretch himself in a direction.

333
00:15:21,270 --> 00:15:24,540
S1: I also did find some of the themes of it

334
00:15:24,540 --> 00:15:27,270
S1: really interesting, like it is a bit of a restatement

335
00:15:27,270 --> 00:15:29,760
S1: of the thesis of this show that Carmy is a

336
00:15:29,760 --> 00:15:33,330
S1: very troubled character, and every time he is presented with

337
00:15:33,330 --> 00:15:36,030
S1: challenges or trauma, he doesn't know how to deal with it,

338
00:15:36,030 --> 00:15:38,640
S1: and he throws himself into his work to try to

339
00:15:38,640 --> 00:15:41,780
S1: seek some control in the kitchen environment, because he doesn't

340
00:15:41,780 --> 00:15:44,330
S1: really feel like he's got control on other aspects of

341
00:15:44,330 --> 00:15:46,520
S1: his life. One of the bits that I thought worked

342
00:15:46,520 --> 00:15:49,910
S1: really well was seeing that sort of cycle filter down,

343
00:15:50,330 --> 00:15:53,810
S1: where you see Carmy finally creating the dish that he's

344
00:15:53,810 --> 00:15:57,050
S1: the most proud of after this pressure. It's like a diamond,

345
00:15:57,050 --> 00:15:59,540
S1: like he's put under this pressure from that mean chef

346
00:15:59,540 --> 00:16:03,560
S1: Joel McHale. He's in that situation because he's fleeing all

347
00:16:03,560 --> 00:16:06,320
S1: sorts of other issues he's got. He finally nails the

348
00:16:06,320 --> 00:16:09,650
S1: perfect dish. And who is it who eats that dish?

349
00:16:09,680 --> 00:16:12,290
S1: It's Sid, and she's like, I want to work with

350
00:16:12,290 --> 00:16:15,260
S1: this guy. What a genius. Not aware at that time

351
00:16:15,260 --> 00:16:18,140
S1: that he could only create something so masterful because of

352
00:16:18,140 --> 00:16:20,750
S1: all the shit that he's carrying and how that hardened

353
00:16:20,750 --> 00:16:23,120
S1: inside of him. And then you see, over the next

354
00:16:23,120 --> 00:16:26,360
S1: two and a half seasons, the way that Carmy brings

355
00:16:26,360 --> 00:16:29,760
S1: that trauma and stress onto her as well. I thought

356
00:16:29,760 --> 00:16:32,850
S1: that was a really interesting way to tell that story,

357
00:16:32,850 --> 00:16:35,070
S1: but like I said, it was a restatement of everything

358
00:16:35,070 --> 00:16:37,590
S1: we know. We know that kami is like a bit

359
00:16:37,590 --> 00:16:39,450
S1: of a piece of shit who wasn't handling himself well.

360
00:16:39,450 --> 00:16:41,490
S1: So did it push things forward? Not.

361
00:16:41,490 --> 00:16:44,250
S3: Not really. Yeah. And how many times do they have

362
00:16:44,250 --> 00:16:47,610
S3: to tell us that kami is traumatized and that he

363
00:16:47,610 --> 00:16:49,740
S3: puts that out on people like, to me it was

364
00:16:49,740 --> 00:16:51,840
S3: just like, oh my God, how many more times do

365
00:16:51,840 --> 00:16:54,800
S3: we have to see Tommy has problems? Kami is like

366
00:16:54,800 --> 00:16:57,170
S3: a perfectionist, blah blah blah. To me. He is the

367
00:16:57,170 --> 00:16:59,750
S3: worst thing about this show and the less of kami

368
00:16:59,750 --> 00:17:01,520
S3: in this show. And I'm sorry Thomas, like I hope

369
00:17:01,520 --> 00:17:04,520
S3: you're not taking this personally the worst thing. And the

370
00:17:04,520 --> 00:17:07,639
S3: less of him the better. And I just think the

371
00:17:07,640 --> 00:17:11,179
S3: show is best when he's not involved as much to me,

372
00:17:11,180 --> 00:17:13,850
S3: because I know people will say to me, oh, but that's,

373
00:17:13,850 --> 00:17:16,729
S3: you know, his character is meant to be unlikable and troubled,

374
00:17:16,730 --> 00:17:19,250
S3: but you can have anti-heroes in other shows, and they

375
00:17:19,250 --> 00:17:23,030
S3: don't feel as one dimensional to me as Carmy feels.

376
00:17:23,330 --> 00:17:25,220
S2: I might go and put on my Marcus beanie, then

377
00:17:25,220 --> 00:17:29,239
S2: feels weird because no, look, I do agree with you.

378
00:17:29,240 --> 00:17:31,669
S2: I think there's like a few things going on. Um,

379
00:17:31,850 --> 00:17:33,619
S2: I mean, like, yeah, you kind of said it at

380
00:17:33,619 --> 00:17:36,649
S2: the top mil season three for any show. Like it

381
00:17:36,650 --> 00:17:39,500
S2: actually was thinking a lot about succession last night. Just

382
00:17:39,500 --> 00:17:41,119
S2: I mean, I feel like we talk about that show

383
00:17:41,119 --> 00:17:43,649
S2: so often, but more and more as these shows, you know,

384
00:17:43,650 --> 00:17:47,280
S2: continue to like, navigate their way through different arcs, it

385
00:17:47,280 --> 00:17:49,440
S2: kind of just makes you realize how amazing succession was

386
00:17:49,440 --> 00:17:51,900
S2: to maintain that quality for so long. But like season

387
00:17:51,900 --> 00:17:55,199
S2: three is famously a tricky season for any show like

388
00:17:55,200 --> 00:17:57,030
S2: and especially, you know, season one, we were like thrown

389
00:17:57,030 --> 00:18:00,119
S2: into this world. Everyone was like, what an incredible show. And,

390
00:18:00,119 --> 00:18:01,860
S2: you know, they're dealing with a subject matter that is

391
00:18:01,859 --> 00:18:04,109
S2: easy and that you're building something, you know, from the

392
00:18:04,109 --> 00:18:06,760
S2: ground up. And then season two, you know, they get

393
00:18:06,760 --> 00:18:09,850
S2: this thing going. And like, that's easy too, in a way.

394
00:18:09,850 --> 00:18:12,609
S2: But then like where they're at in season three, like they've,

395
00:18:12,609 --> 00:18:16,120
S2: they've got it is naturally like a less exciting subject matter,

396
00:18:16,119 --> 00:18:18,070
S2: I think. And I kind of agree with you in

397
00:18:18,070 --> 00:18:21,219
S2: that kami like, it just feels like that. You know,

398
00:18:21,220 --> 00:18:23,710
S2: we have been like ramped over the head with these

399
00:18:23,710 --> 00:18:26,889
S2: messages of like, kami is like traumatized. Kami has issues

400
00:18:26,890 --> 00:18:29,320
S2: and I feel like all of the tension is so

401
00:18:29,320 --> 00:18:32,060
S2: arrested right now with with everything that's going on, it's

402
00:18:32,060 --> 00:18:35,300
S2: basically like we see Richie and Carmy continue to have

403
00:18:35,300 --> 00:18:38,300
S2: their situation. Syd still doesn't feel that respected by Carmy.

404
00:18:38,300 --> 00:18:40,490
S2: He offers her like an official partnership in the restaurant,

405
00:18:40,490 --> 00:18:42,560
S2: but he doesn't actually listen to her or seek her

406
00:18:42,560 --> 00:18:45,350
S2: counsel on dishes. The sister has been pregnant for like

407
00:18:45,350 --> 00:18:49,010
S2: three years. It's insane. Like, I just I just feel like,

408
00:18:49,010 --> 00:18:51,050
S2: you know, I understand the timeline of the show, but

409
00:18:51,050 --> 00:18:54,180
S2: it feels like all of the tension has, like, not

410
00:18:54,180 --> 00:18:58,890
S2: moved forward at all. And, you know, like, unfortunately, whether

411
00:18:58,890 --> 00:19:01,380
S2: or not that's like a reflection of real life in

412
00:19:01,380 --> 00:19:04,169
S2: this restaurant, but it doesn't necessarily then translate to really

413
00:19:04,170 --> 00:19:05,340
S2: watchable TV.

414
00:19:05,369 --> 00:19:07,500
S1: Yeah, I think there's a bit to talk about there

415
00:19:07,500 --> 00:19:09,000
S1: in terms of the good and the bad of this

416
00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:11,940
S1: show and also the season three issue. Before we get there,

417
00:19:11,940 --> 00:19:13,680
S1: I want to maybe we'll just move through the rest

418
00:19:13,680 --> 00:19:15,389
S1: of the season and talk about what we liked and

419
00:19:15,390 --> 00:19:18,609
S1: didn't like. Episode two. You know, it's kind of like

420
00:19:18,609 --> 00:19:21,609
S1: the return to normality in terms of the structure, the

421
00:19:21,609 --> 00:19:25,180
S1: non-negotiables episode. But to your point, Thomas. Yeah, it's like

422
00:19:25,180 --> 00:19:27,730
S1: predominantly about Richie and Carmy yelling at each other, which

423
00:19:27,730 --> 00:19:30,850
S1: I did find very fun and interesting, but wasn't new.

424
00:19:30,850 --> 00:19:33,820
S1: Wasn't that exciting? Episode three. It's just like, here's a

425
00:19:33,820 --> 00:19:37,330
S1: restaurant operating over the space of a month. Great. We've

426
00:19:37,330 --> 00:19:40,930
S1: seen that over two years as well. Episode four Syd

427
00:19:40,930 --> 00:19:43,399
S1: gets her own apartment. I don't really care that much

428
00:19:43,400 --> 00:19:47,750
S1: about that. Marcus's mum died. He. He speaks at the funeral,

429
00:19:47,750 --> 00:19:50,840
S1: delivers the eulogy. It's now been like a season and

430
00:19:50,840 --> 00:19:54,380
S1: a half of Marcus's mum dying. Like, in no disrespect

431
00:19:54,380 --> 00:19:56,719
S1: to my guy, but, like, that's a lot of time

432
00:19:56,720 --> 00:20:01,160
S1: to spend on one minor characters like personal family issue.

433
00:20:01,160 --> 00:20:03,890
S1: And then episode five, the episode of the review where

434
00:20:03,890 --> 00:20:08,070
S1: we get some of the stunt casting John Cena. Overall,

435
00:20:08,070 --> 00:20:11,100
S1: I found those episodes like, I think at least episode

436
00:20:11,100 --> 00:20:13,650
S1: one tried to do something different and interesting. I found

437
00:20:13,650 --> 00:20:16,440
S1: the rest of it really treading water. The only bits

438
00:20:16,440 --> 00:20:20,430
S1: that really worked for me were Abby Elliott, who plays

439
00:20:20,760 --> 00:20:23,370
S1: my sister. I find a really interesting and I get

440
00:20:23,369 --> 00:20:26,610
S1: that the the pregnancy story, I think that resolves itself

441
00:20:26,609 --> 00:20:29,369
S1: later in the season from, from what I've read. But

442
00:20:29,380 --> 00:20:32,739
S1: she's really interesting and compelling, and I find her to

443
00:20:32,740 --> 00:20:36,399
S1: be a really interesting anchor in this show. But that's

444
00:20:36,400 --> 00:20:38,229
S1: kind of really all I can say in terms of

445
00:20:38,230 --> 00:20:40,090
S1: what I really loving about it at the moment.

446
00:20:40,090 --> 00:20:42,970
S3: Yeah, I completely agree. I think Nat or Sugar is

447
00:20:42,970 --> 00:20:46,330
S3: she's known and Cousin Richie are like the beating heart

448
00:20:46,330 --> 00:20:49,270
S3: of this show. And I actually think Cousin Richie where

449
00:20:49,270 --> 00:20:52,869
S3: Carmy's character or writing of his character fails. Cousin Richie

450
00:20:52,869 --> 00:20:56,540
S3: shows how you can be a complicated, traumatized character, but

451
00:20:56,540 --> 00:20:59,270
S3: still not feel one note. And I thought the two

452
00:20:59,270 --> 00:21:00,590
S3: best scenes and we have to say, like in the

453
00:21:00,590 --> 00:21:03,920
S3: first five episodes, pretty much the dialogue consists of people

454
00:21:03,920 --> 00:21:06,050
S3: telling each other to shut the fuck up like that

455
00:21:06,050 --> 00:21:08,270
S3: is just like, go fuck yourself. Yeah, go fuck yourself.

456
00:21:08,270 --> 00:21:12,350
S3: That's like the main dialogue, but there's two really great scenes.

457
00:21:12,350 --> 00:21:15,560
S3: That scene with Cousin Richie where he's wondering whether he

458
00:21:15,560 --> 00:21:18,940
S3: needs to stay out of his kid's life for her sake.

459
00:21:18,970 --> 00:21:20,380
S1: Josh Hartnett coming out.

460
00:21:20,380 --> 00:21:22,990
S3: Yeah, he's really having a renaissance. He was really.

461
00:21:22,990 --> 00:21:23,680
S2: Good in that scene.

462
00:21:23,680 --> 00:21:25,179
S1: Too. He was great in that scene. He was a

463
00:21:25,180 --> 00:21:26,470
S1: really good, like, stunt car.

464
00:21:26,500 --> 00:21:28,360
S2: I was like, really happy for Josh Hartnett.

465
00:21:28,359 --> 00:21:31,240
S3: He was great in Oppenheimer. Bring him back. Yeah. Um,

466
00:21:31,240 --> 00:21:32,980
S3: and then the other scene was the one with sugar

467
00:21:32,980 --> 00:21:35,619
S3: where she's talking about. It's this really great moment of

468
00:21:35,619 --> 00:21:38,170
S3: script writing where she's talking about worrying about passing what's

469
00:21:38,170 --> 00:21:40,869
S3: going on in her head and her life down into

470
00:21:40,869 --> 00:21:44,109
S3: her baby. And it does show that they have the

471
00:21:44,109 --> 00:21:48,490
S3: potential to do these wonderful scenes, but they're too distracted

472
00:21:48,490 --> 00:21:52,450
S3: by the montages and the close ups and the music,

473
00:21:52,450 --> 00:21:55,480
S3: and they don't actually invest in these characters as much

474
00:21:55,480 --> 00:21:57,970
S3: outside of the restaurant as I think that they should.

475
00:21:57,970 --> 00:21:59,680
S2: And I feel like that's been one of the biggest

476
00:21:59,680 --> 00:22:01,330
S2: things that's really bothered me. And like, I think it's

477
00:22:01,330 --> 00:22:02,740
S2: fair to say I went into this show, like probably

478
00:22:02,890 --> 00:22:05,050
S2: more prepared than anyone to like it, but like the

479
00:22:05,050 --> 00:22:08,450
S2: tricks that made the first two seasons so great. Like

480
00:22:08,450 --> 00:22:11,750
S2: like these, like really well timed flashbacks like these really

481
00:22:11,750 --> 00:22:14,689
S2: kind of like beautiful montages of, like the minutiae of like,

482
00:22:14,690 --> 00:22:16,520
S2: life in the kitchen and not necessarily just like food

483
00:22:16,520 --> 00:22:19,460
S2: being cooked, but like Greece being, you know, wiped from

484
00:22:19,460 --> 00:22:22,430
S2: the inside of an oven that, that they now feel

485
00:22:22,430 --> 00:22:24,650
S2: like the biggest kind of like papering over the cracks

486
00:22:24,650 --> 00:22:27,530
S2: of like holes in these episodes. And they've completely, like,

487
00:22:27,530 --> 00:22:30,179
S2: forgotten the idea, you know, probably something you hear in

488
00:22:30,180 --> 00:22:32,100
S2: the kitchen all the time, like less is more, and

489
00:22:32,100 --> 00:22:35,430
S2: instead they're just like the aside from the opening episode,

490
00:22:35,430 --> 00:22:38,369
S2: the amount of like flashbacks and montages, it's just such

491
00:22:38,369 --> 00:22:41,370
S2: a like distraction. And also, I think it tells any

492
00:22:41,369 --> 00:22:44,430
S2: savvy enough viewer that you've, like, not got a great

493
00:22:44,430 --> 00:22:46,830
S2: idea of what's going on in your show because you're,

494
00:22:46,830 --> 00:22:48,630
S2: you're doing this and I guess Oseman, I was curious

495
00:22:48,630 --> 00:22:50,250
S2: to speak to you about this because you are such

496
00:22:50,250 --> 00:22:53,280
S2: a marvel guy. Like, is this the whole like, Avengers

497
00:22:53,300 --> 00:22:55,250
S2: Endgame situation where it's like, you split it in two

498
00:22:55,250 --> 00:22:57,500
S2: because and then you just dilute the quality?

499
00:22:57,770 --> 00:23:00,050
S1: I don't know what to say in response to that.

500
00:23:00,140 --> 00:23:02,690
S3: The Avengers link was not one I expected.

501
00:23:02,810 --> 00:23:04,850
S1: But yeah, also calling me a marvel guy. Like, I

502
00:23:04,850 --> 00:23:07,970
S1: watch these things because they are the most popular forms

503
00:23:07,970 --> 00:23:11,660
S1: of commercial entertainment to exist, and I feel responsible as

504
00:23:11,660 --> 00:23:15,140
S1: a person who engages with culture and mass consumption of

505
00:23:15,140 --> 00:23:18,120
S1: it to be across them. Um, but yeah, I mean,

506
00:23:18,119 --> 00:23:21,270
S1: I weirdly, annoyingly, I'm going to now sound like a

507
00:23:21,270 --> 00:23:25,350
S1: marvel guy. Avengers. The splitting of it didn't feel like this,

508
00:23:25,350 --> 00:23:28,890
S1: because I feel like there was so many storylines that

509
00:23:28,890 --> 00:23:30,600
S1: had been built up over such a long period of

510
00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:33,390
S1: time that there was enough to warrant two movies. I mean,

511
00:23:33,390 --> 00:23:37,410
S1: we're talking about maybe like 15 hours of television across

512
00:23:37,410 --> 00:23:40,500
S1: these three and four seasons. This doesn't feel like there's

513
00:23:40,500 --> 00:23:44,420
S1: 15 hours or even 12 hours of storytelling to tell here.

514
00:23:44,420 --> 00:23:47,660
S1: So we've got these flashbacks. We've got so many shots

515
00:23:47,660 --> 00:23:51,050
S1: of Carmy deciding what micro herb to put on, so

516
00:23:51,050 --> 00:23:52,939
S1: many shots of him cooking food and throwing it in

517
00:23:52,940 --> 00:23:57,080
S1: the bin. And it's not clear to me what purpose

518
00:23:57,080 --> 00:23:59,780
S1: they serve. You know, we had this conversation about action

519
00:23:59,780 --> 00:24:01,790
S1: scenes and sex scenes and people say, what's the point

520
00:24:01,790 --> 00:24:04,459
S1: of them? All these different sort of scenes can tell

521
00:24:04,460 --> 00:24:07,070
S1: you something about a character. But for me, at this

522
00:24:07,070 --> 00:24:10,250
S1: stage in this show, it's not clear what these scenes

523
00:24:10,250 --> 00:24:14,929
S1: are supposed to represent. And Mel, you're right about Richie

524
00:24:14,930 --> 00:24:18,859
S1: and Sugar being the most interesting because despite them playing

525
00:24:18,859 --> 00:24:22,070
S1: specific roles in relation to how Carmy and the rest

526
00:24:22,070 --> 00:24:24,380
S1: of the crew are doing, we know about their lives.

527
00:24:24,380 --> 00:24:26,479
S1: We know what they're thinking about. We know what they're

528
00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:29,180
S1: trying to process. We even know that Richie is obsessed

529
00:24:29,180 --> 00:24:32,580
S1: with William Friedkin and Michael Mann films, right? That's like

530
00:24:32,580 --> 00:24:35,399
S1: a fleshed out and interesting and compelling character who is

531
00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:38,189
S1: trying to work at his job, find some meaning in

532
00:24:38,190 --> 00:24:41,489
S1: his life through his profession, manage his his divorce and

533
00:24:41,490 --> 00:24:44,850
S1: his kid and his ex-wife getting married. He's got he's

534
00:24:44,850 --> 00:24:47,669
S1: got a relationship with the maitre d that worked at ever,

535
00:24:47,670 --> 00:24:49,950
S1: the really fancy Olivia Colman restaurant. We understand all these

536
00:24:49,950 --> 00:24:52,800
S1: things for Carmy. What do we what's going on in

537
00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:55,459
S1: his life other than he's just, like, quite stressed out

538
00:24:55,460 --> 00:24:58,880
S1: in the kitchen and misses his ex-girlfriend who's not in

539
00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:01,040
S1: the show at all so far. So it's just flashbacks.

540
00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:04,250
S1: It's a really bizarre situation I think the show has

541
00:25:04,250 --> 00:25:05,689
S1: ended up at.

542
00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:08,030
S2: And I was thinking about this a lot when watching

543
00:25:08,030 --> 00:25:10,490
S2: the first five, because I particularly agree that, like, I

544
00:25:10,490 --> 00:25:13,730
S2: really do unfortunately think kami is the least interesting character,

545
00:25:13,730 --> 00:25:15,979
S2: and the show was so kind of like critically lauded

546
00:25:15,980 --> 00:25:19,080
S2: for expanding that ensemble cast and giving everyone, like, equal billing.

547
00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:21,389
S2: And then it was so funny to find the first,

548
00:25:21,390 --> 00:25:24,330
S2: I mean, the first episode especially, but generally the vibe

549
00:25:24,330 --> 00:25:27,119
S2: of the first five, kind of like batch of episodes

550
00:25:27,119 --> 00:25:29,400
S2: is kami is like really front and center again. And

551
00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:33,900
S2: I was thinking about like, what role does the reputation

552
00:25:33,900 --> 00:25:36,510
S2: of the show like? Jeremy Allen white has no doubt

553
00:25:36,510 --> 00:25:38,940
S2: become the biggest star from this show. Like, you know,

554
00:25:38,940 --> 00:25:40,890
S2: I think Ayo Edebiri has a case also to make

555
00:25:40,890 --> 00:25:43,950
S2: for how much her stock has risen. But those two really,

556
00:25:43,950 --> 00:25:46,770
S2: let's say from the bear doing so well, have become

557
00:25:46,770 --> 00:25:49,950
S2: like these huge pop culture figures now. And I wonder

558
00:25:49,950 --> 00:25:52,800
S2: what the relationship like is between, you know, the network

559
00:25:52,800 --> 00:25:55,470
S2: and the creators of the show when talking about what

560
00:25:55,470 --> 00:25:58,109
S2: the season will look like. Because if you look at

561
00:25:58,109 --> 00:26:00,300
S2: the trajectory of the show, it felt like Carmy was

562
00:26:00,300 --> 00:26:03,540
S2: becoming less and less, you know, important and less crucial

563
00:26:03,540 --> 00:26:05,639
S2: to be centered. And then suddenly we get to season

564
00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:08,050
S2: three and the gap. You know, what's happened in that

565
00:26:08,050 --> 00:26:11,110
S2: gap is that he's become a superstar, really. And then

566
00:26:11,109 --> 00:26:13,180
S2: he's like, right back in the frame. And I was wondering,

567
00:26:13,180 --> 00:26:15,550
S2: I'm like, if that kind of speaks to, I guess,

568
00:26:15,550 --> 00:26:18,280
S2: you know, leveraging his star power because I wouldn't have

569
00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:19,900
S2: expected it to be the case.

570
00:26:19,900 --> 00:26:22,540
S1: It's a really interesting one. And also you note where

571
00:26:22,540 --> 00:26:25,330
S1: like you hear these things from people like Olivia Colman

572
00:26:25,330 --> 00:26:27,879
S1: and Joe McHale, who are these actors coming in for

573
00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:29,929
S1: an episode or a scene or two? They're like, we

574
00:26:29,930 --> 00:26:31,609
S1: just fly in for a day. We shoot our sins,

575
00:26:31,609 --> 00:26:34,940
S1: we fly out. It's interesting hearing you make that point,

576
00:26:34,940 --> 00:26:37,560
S1: because most of Carmy's scenes are in like 1 or

577
00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:40,310
S1: 2 sets, and we know that he's like working on

578
00:26:40,310 --> 00:26:42,950
S1: like a oh, so many different film projects and other

579
00:26:42,950 --> 00:26:46,490
S1: things right now that maybe they're one foot in the bear,

580
00:26:46,490 --> 00:26:48,830
S1: one foot out of the bear. And that then impacts

581
00:26:48,830 --> 00:26:50,870
S1: the story you can tell and the scenes that these

582
00:26:50,869 --> 00:26:53,090
S1: guys can be in. The other thing I wanted to

583
00:26:53,090 --> 00:26:55,320
S1: ask you guys about, I think it kind of goes

584
00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:58,740
S1: to the nature of what kind of show the bear is,

585
00:26:58,740 --> 00:27:01,110
S1: what kind of show maybe the creators wanted to make

586
00:27:01,109 --> 00:27:04,230
S1: and where it's going now. These sorts of like three, four,

587
00:27:04,230 --> 00:27:08,340
S1: five season shows. Succession is like a clear standout that

588
00:27:08,340 --> 00:27:09,870
S1: doesn't really fit into this because of just how kind

589
00:27:09,869 --> 00:27:13,020
S1: of special it was. But these kinds of shows last

590
00:27:13,020 --> 00:27:17,129
S1: because you create an ensemble cast, a dynamic, a vibe

591
00:27:17,130 --> 00:27:19,330
S1: that you want to hang out with, right? Like shows

592
00:27:19,330 --> 00:27:23,020
S1: like The Office, these workplace situational comedies or dramas. It's like,

593
00:27:23,020 --> 00:27:26,139
S1: I want to see these guys for 20 episodes a year, whatever.

594
00:27:26,140 --> 00:27:28,450
S1: Just like get up to high jinks, just do some stuff.

595
00:27:28,450 --> 00:27:32,080
S1: Maybe there'll be some plot lines about love, death and marriages,

596
00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:33,879
S1: and it's a little bit soapy, and this show is

597
00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:36,399
S1: a little bit of that soapiness to it as well.

598
00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:40,629
S1: But it's also very firmly in terms of its structure

599
00:27:40,630 --> 00:27:45,649
S1: and themes, that classic kind of prestige show like more focused.

600
00:27:45,650 --> 00:27:47,690
S1: It's trying to tell a particular story. It's got eight

601
00:27:47,690 --> 00:27:50,780
S1: episodes here or eight episodes there. The stakes are really high.

602
00:27:50,780 --> 00:27:55,760
S1: It's really grappling with big, complex ideas about trauma and

603
00:27:55,760 --> 00:27:58,129
S1: life and work and family and all that sort of stuff,

604
00:27:58,130 --> 00:28:00,379
S1: and it feels like it's kind of trying to do

605
00:28:00,380 --> 00:28:02,090
S1: both those things and not doing it well. Like there's

606
00:28:02,090 --> 00:28:04,190
S1: almost a version of the show where the stakes aren't

607
00:28:04,190 --> 00:28:06,149
S1: so high, it's not so fucking intense and there's so

608
00:28:06,150 --> 00:28:08,729
S1: much swearing. And it's just like today is about Marcus

609
00:28:08,730 --> 00:28:10,950
S1: trying to, like, go to the donut store and figure

610
00:28:10,950 --> 00:28:13,260
S1: out what his new donut recipe is. And if the

611
00:28:13,260 --> 00:28:16,170
S1: tension isn't ratcheted up, you can just enjoy that. And

612
00:28:16,170 --> 00:28:18,780
S1: then you look forward to the CID episode or the

613
00:28:18,780 --> 00:28:21,450
S1: comedy episode. But the show doesn't want to give up

614
00:28:21,450 --> 00:28:25,469
S1: being a very serious, dark kind of a series, and

615
00:28:25,470 --> 00:28:28,560
S1: I think that is also feeding into why it feels

616
00:28:28,560 --> 00:28:31,000
S1: a bit tonally mixed here. Do you guys have thoughts

617
00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:31,449
S1: on that?

618
00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:33,760
S3: Yeah, I think that's right. I think you can either

619
00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:37,689
S3: develop character or plot or both if you're a great show,

620
00:28:37,690 --> 00:28:40,960
S3: but this season seems to be doing none. The plot

621
00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:44,350
S3: is at a stasis. The characters are at a stasis.

622
00:28:44,380 --> 00:28:48,580
S3: And then what might be the experimental element of the show?

623
00:28:48,580 --> 00:28:51,580
S3: And of course, like I do appreciate that he's mixing

624
00:28:51,580 --> 00:28:53,380
S3: it up in the first Christopher story is mixing it

625
00:28:53,380 --> 00:28:56,240
S3: up in the first episode and some of these episodes,

626
00:28:56,240 --> 00:28:59,510
S3: but I don't think it's, um, I don't I don't

627
00:28:59,510 --> 00:29:02,210
S3: think it's it's working. And he's lost. What did actually

628
00:29:02,210 --> 00:29:05,270
S3: make the show great in the first and also to

629
00:29:05,300 --> 00:29:08,810
S3: that tonal difference, there's a lot of the fact family

630
00:29:08,810 --> 00:29:12,020
S3: comes into this. Matty Matheson and his brother have a

631
00:29:12,020 --> 00:29:14,930
S3: bit more of a lead role in the first five episodes,

632
00:29:14,930 --> 00:29:17,420
S3: and it's very clear that they're there for some comic

633
00:29:17,420 --> 00:29:20,250
S3: relief in between all the yelling. But their scenes are

634
00:29:20,250 --> 00:29:24,660
S3: very slapsticky, and the juxtaposition just feels really like we've

635
00:29:24,660 --> 00:29:26,730
S3: got to have some hecticness now. We've got to have

636
00:29:26,730 --> 00:29:29,940
S3: some lightness. And I also found that that tonally, it

637
00:29:29,940 --> 00:29:32,610
S3: couldn't quite pick whether it wanted to make us laugh

638
00:29:32,610 --> 00:29:35,280
S3: or cry, love or hate. It was. Yeah, it was

639
00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:36,180
S3: a bit confusing.

640
00:29:36,180 --> 00:29:38,700
S2: Yeah, I really found that. And, you know, we were

641
00:29:38,700 --> 00:29:40,260
S2: going to talk about, I guess, like what we think

642
00:29:40,260 --> 00:29:43,480
S2: is working and not working for the season. And like

643
00:29:43,990 --> 00:29:46,060
S2: for me, in terms of what's not working, I would

644
00:29:46,060 --> 00:29:49,630
S2: definitely say that the comedy element is it's like, again,

645
00:29:49,630 --> 00:29:52,300
S2: I feel like I'm like watching the head noise of

646
00:29:52,300 --> 00:29:54,850
S2: Christopher Cetera on screen. Like, not only has there been

647
00:29:54,850 --> 00:29:57,400
S2: a little bit of chat around the fact that, you know,

648
00:29:57,400 --> 00:29:59,680
S2: is there a bit of like, nomination fraud for The Bear?

649
00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:02,710
S2: It gets nominated in the comedy category for the Emmys,

650
00:30:02,710 --> 00:30:06,120
S2: and it's swept that category last season. But like this

651
00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:08,070
S2: show is not a comedy, and there's always a conversation

652
00:30:08,070 --> 00:30:10,590
S2: around that. But like, there was some kind of chatter

653
00:30:10,590 --> 00:30:13,290
S2: online about, like, is the show like shoehorning in these

654
00:30:13,290 --> 00:30:16,170
S2: comedy scenes? And it's always been kind of funny, but

655
00:30:16,170 --> 00:30:18,930
S2: especially like, yeah, as you said, Mel, the fact that,

656
00:30:18,930 --> 00:30:22,050
S2: you know, like Jack and his brothers have been so clearly, like,

657
00:30:22,050 --> 00:30:25,170
S2: slotted in as this comedic relief and previously in previous seasons,

658
00:30:25,170 --> 00:30:27,300
S2: like he had this, you know, like funny interactions with

659
00:30:27,300 --> 00:30:29,040
S2: Richie and they all felt so organic as they were

660
00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:32,310
S2: trying to fucking revive the beef and then start the bear.

661
00:30:32,310 --> 00:30:34,740
S2: Whereas now it's like we have these really intense scenes

662
00:30:34,740 --> 00:30:38,220
S2: and then we cut to fuck, like buffing a floor

663
00:30:38,220 --> 00:30:40,860
S2: or trying to measure up a glass. And it's so

664
00:30:40,860 --> 00:30:44,190
S2: like it just feels so jarring. It's like, you know,

665
00:30:44,190 --> 00:30:46,590
S2: you're watching like comedic relief and it just has the

666
00:30:46,590 --> 00:30:49,230
S2: reverse effect. And and for me, it feels like such

667
00:30:49,230 --> 00:30:51,570
S2: a shame because the show has always been so good

668
00:30:51,570 --> 00:30:54,170
S2: at blending this really intense trauma and drama with like,

669
00:30:54,170 --> 00:30:57,290
S2: really funny bits of very natural comedy. And now it,

670
00:30:57,290 --> 00:30:59,300
S2: you know, like, feels like a box is being ticked.

671
00:31:10,670 --> 00:31:13,550
S1: I think what's interesting, reflecting back on season two, I

672
00:31:13,550 --> 00:31:15,890
S1: don't know how you guys feel, but the two episodes

673
00:31:15,890 --> 00:31:18,020
S1: just stand out to me of fishes and forks and

674
00:31:18,020 --> 00:31:20,450
S1: I feel like everyone remembers those. And they came in

675
00:31:20,450 --> 00:31:23,330
S1: the second half of the season and they were really big,

676
00:31:23,330 --> 00:31:26,720
S1: big set piece kinds of things and doing very different things,

677
00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:30,680
S1: but showing you the absolute highs and emotional lows of

678
00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:35,060
S1: what television can evoke within you. If this show in

679
00:31:35,060 --> 00:31:38,000
S1: its final half has a couple of episodes like that,

680
00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:40,940
S1: I think that will probably drown out our issues with

681
00:31:40,940 --> 00:31:43,420
S1: the first half of the season. I think it's still

682
00:31:43,420 --> 00:31:46,150
S1: the key issue, still seems to be too many episodes

683
00:31:46,150 --> 00:31:48,670
S1: for the amount of plot and development that they've got,

684
00:31:48,670 --> 00:31:51,730
S1: but I am pretty interested to check back in next

685
00:31:51,730 --> 00:31:55,090
S1: week and see how we go. But before we finish

686
00:31:55,090 --> 00:31:57,730
S1: on the bear, I had a question for you guys.

687
00:31:57,880 --> 00:31:59,830
S1: It kind of leads me to a prediction I want

688
00:31:59,830 --> 00:32:02,170
S1: to make about where this season or where the show

689
00:32:02,170 --> 00:32:06,200
S1: is going. Story wise, the food on the show is

690
00:32:06,200 --> 00:32:10,400
S1: obviously a show about fine dining, restaurants and and food

691
00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:13,010
S1: is a key part of it. I've started to come

692
00:32:13,010 --> 00:32:16,160
S1: to the conclusion, or perhaps the realization that I don't

693
00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:19,400
S1: think the food on this show looks particularly good. What

694
00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:20,390
S1: do you guys think?

695
00:32:20,420 --> 00:32:23,390
S2: I think I would if I was in Chicago living

696
00:32:23,390 --> 00:32:25,160
S2: in this fictional universe, I would be going to the

697
00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:27,890
S2: sandwich window and not the restaurant.

698
00:32:27,890 --> 00:32:30,090
S3: I agree, I'm a vegetarian, but I reckon they made

699
00:32:30,090 --> 00:32:33,870
S3: those beef shots look quite sumptuous compared to compared to

700
00:32:33,870 --> 00:32:36,450
S3: the fine dining shots that Carmy's making.

701
00:32:36,450 --> 00:32:39,630
S1: Actually sort of. You guys have stepped on my theory here.

702
00:32:39,630 --> 00:32:42,660
S1: I wonder whether the arc of this show is going

703
00:32:42,660 --> 00:32:48,270
S1: to be. After trying to prove himself in the fine

704
00:32:48,270 --> 00:32:52,800
S1: dining world and saying, originally, I don't care about the

705
00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:55,780
S1: chef's star and then going for the chef's star and

706
00:32:55,780 --> 00:33:00,340
S1: realizing perhaps that dealing with all of his issues through

707
00:33:00,340 --> 00:33:03,220
S1: pouring his energy into a fine dining kitchen is not

708
00:33:03,220 --> 00:33:06,100
S1: the outcome here. In fact, it is alienating him and

709
00:33:06,100 --> 00:33:08,860
S1: everyone else involved from the people they love. We end

710
00:33:08,860 --> 00:33:13,000
S1: up back at the original Beef of Chicago, because it's

711
00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:17,050
S1: interesting that this season has the guy making those sandwiches.

712
00:33:17,050 --> 00:33:19,320
S1: They look great. It's successful. They're talking about how that's

713
00:33:19,320 --> 00:33:21,330
S1: the only part of the business making money. I kind

714
00:33:21,330 --> 00:33:23,280
S1: of think the show is going to end with them

715
00:33:23,280 --> 00:33:27,030
S1: shutting down the bear and saying, let let's just make

716
00:33:27,030 --> 00:33:30,510
S1: these delicious sandwiches in honor of Mike. That's that's my prediction. Yeah.

717
00:33:30,510 --> 00:33:33,360
S3: That seems like a classic Carmy move to destroy everything.

718
00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:36,450
S3: He's made everyone build from him and once again run

719
00:33:36,450 --> 00:33:40,020
S3: away from all his troubles, financial and food, and just

720
00:33:40,020 --> 00:33:41,670
S3: make sandwiches again. Yeah, that's.

721
00:33:42,120 --> 00:33:43,709
S2: Like I've been saying, I'm not enjoying the show. We're

722
00:33:43,710 --> 00:33:46,410
S2: not going to fucking character assassinate my boy kami. Here.

723
00:33:47,100 --> 00:33:48,570
S2: A few things to add before we finish up on

724
00:33:48,570 --> 00:33:51,210
S2: the bear. Uh, number one, I think maybe that is right.

725
00:33:51,210 --> 00:33:53,580
S2: And I feel like they have kind of, um, given

726
00:33:53,580 --> 00:33:55,830
S2: us a few, like, clues along the way. Even in

727
00:33:55,830 --> 00:33:58,530
S2: episode five, there's a moment where kami, who has basically

728
00:33:58,530 --> 00:34:01,860
S2: shut out everyone in his work life, family life, everything

729
00:34:01,860 --> 00:34:03,989
S2: he like, you know, they drop some trays and he

730
00:34:03,990 --> 00:34:06,100
S2: finds himself with Ibrahim, the guy who's running, you know,

731
00:34:06,100 --> 00:34:09,310
S2: the beef sandwich window. And he just they look at

732
00:34:09,310 --> 00:34:10,930
S2: each other and he's like, am I fucking this up?

733
00:34:10,930 --> 00:34:12,940
S2: And I thought that was interesting. You know, he like, yeah.

734
00:34:12,940 --> 00:34:15,040
S2: In the kitchen hierarchy Ibrahim is kind of like down

735
00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:16,780
S2: the bottom. He's just doing the sandwich window. But he

736
00:34:16,780 --> 00:34:19,270
S2: can't be like really genuinely asks him like, am I

737
00:34:19,270 --> 00:34:20,680
S2: ruining this? And you're kind of.

738
00:34:20,680 --> 00:34:22,359
S3: Insightful of him, isn't it? Yeah.

739
00:34:22,750 --> 00:34:25,000
S2: Don't just leave him alone. But I would say it's

740
00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:26,860
S2: very funny. I was reading, uh, like a story, a

741
00:34:26,860 --> 00:34:29,650
S2: story from Eater.com, you know, that website. And they were

742
00:34:29,650 --> 00:34:31,739
S2: talking particularly about the food. It was a food writer

743
00:34:31,739 --> 00:34:33,600
S2: writing this review, and they were like, you know, the

744
00:34:33,600 --> 00:34:35,730
S2: restaurants I love, they each have like an identity and

745
00:34:35,730 --> 00:34:38,310
S2: a theme. And, you know, Osman, you own a restaurant.

746
00:34:38,310 --> 00:34:39,660
S2: You know how important it is to to know.

747
00:34:39,660 --> 00:34:41,550
S1: I feel like I'm uniquely placed out of many people

748
00:34:41,550 --> 00:34:44,070
S1: in this world to comment on, on this show. Exactly.

749
00:34:44,070 --> 00:34:46,290
S2: But she was like the food that I see Carmy

750
00:34:46,290 --> 00:34:49,140
S2: making has like, no identity. Like, all we ever get

751
00:34:49,140 --> 00:34:51,150
S2: told is that he's a genius and he's excellent, but like,

752
00:34:51,150 --> 00:34:53,040
S2: none of his food seems to make sense to him.

753
00:34:53,040 --> 00:34:55,150
S2: It's just like really fine dining. Like, I don't know,

754
00:34:55,150 --> 00:34:56,859
S2: I don't mouth water over any of the food. I

755
00:34:56,860 --> 00:34:59,379
S2: still think about the omelet from last season that Syd

756
00:34:59,380 --> 00:35:01,480
S2: made like she whipped up, but the food here is

757
00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:04,150
S2: just like it's the worst of what people think of

758
00:35:04,150 --> 00:35:05,350
S2: fine dining, I reckon.

759
00:35:05,350 --> 00:35:08,649
S1: I think that's spot on, and I think that Christopher

760
00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:11,920
S1: knows enough about fine dining to understand that as well. Like,

761
00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:13,870
S1: I don't think this is an accident. I think it

762
00:35:13,870 --> 00:35:17,590
S1: only makes sense if it concludes with the realization that

763
00:35:17,590 --> 00:35:20,050
S1: this is not authentic to him. Like we talked about this,

764
00:35:20,050 --> 00:35:22,450
S1: I think in season two when they're making the bear

765
00:35:22,450 --> 00:35:24,850
S1: and they're like, well, what is our menu going to be?

766
00:35:24,850 --> 00:35:26,469
S1: It's like, if you don't have a vision for your menu,

767
00:35:26,469 --> 00:35:27,879
S1: what the hell are you doing? You're sort of just

768
00:35:27,880 --> 00:35:31,090
S1: like fulfilling this role that you've observed without that kind

769
00:35:31,090 --> 00:35:33,760
S1: of creative spark, that passion that drives you. He's in

770
00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:37,509
S1: the kitchen every episode. Venison with a bearnaise foam. Like,

771
00:35:37,510 --> 00:35:39,760
S1: none of that makes sense. And I and I think

772
00:35:39,760 --> 00:35:43,190
S1: even though it's annoying to see so much of that stuff,

773
00:35:43,190 --> 00:35:46,730
S1: if the payoff is I'm a fucking idiot, these delicious

774
00:35:46,730 --> 00:35:50,540
S1: beef sandwiches are the best thing in the world. That's

775
00:35:50,540 --> 00:35:52,520
S1: what I'm going to do. Yeah. Fair enough.

776
00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:55,460
S2: And so I just wanted to lastly ask, uh, I

777
00:35:55,460 --> 00:36:00,470
S2: realize you're kind of like, uh, the uncle in your restaurant, but, like,

778
00:36:00,469 --> 00:36:02,450
S2: if you came off air today and you had, like,

779
00:36:02,450 --> 00:36:05,750
S2: a voicemail from your head chef and he was like, yo, Oz,

780
00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:09,430
S2: I've decided we're changing the menu every single day. Uh, also,

781
00:36:09,430 --> 00:36:12,009
S2: I need $1 million for micro herbs. Would you be like,

782
00:36:12,010 --> 00:36:14,620
S2: absolutely not. Or would you back the creativity?

783
00:36:14,650 --> 00:36:20,140
S1: Well, that's that's what the show does get I think so. Well,

784
00:36:20,140 --> 00:36:23,800
S1: it nails this. The various pressures of running a restaurant

785
00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:25,360
S1: in a kind of a post Covid era. It's like

786
00:36:25,360 --> 00:36:27,880
S1: we want the best possible ingredients because that's how you

787
00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:30,490
S1: make the best food. But that's pretty expensive and it's

788
00:36:30,489 --> 00:36:33,670
S1: getting more expensive and farmers markets are struggling. We want

789
00:36:33,670 --> 00:36:37,780
S1: to change the menu to be responsive to what's seasonally in,

790
00:36:37,780 --> 00:36:40,840
S1: you know, being being produced or being grown. That's really

791
00:36:40,840 --> 00:36:43,750
S1: hard to do. You don't have, uh, you don't have

792
00:36:43,750 --> 00:36:46,600
S1: like an expectation from the people coming into the restaurant.

793
00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:49,989
S1: The chefs are not always communicating effectively with the front

794
00:36:49,989 --> 00:36:52,810
S1: of house. These are all the challenges. You don't make

795
00:36:52,810 --> 00:36:55,910
S1: the intake you expect for that week that puts pressure on.

796
00:36:55,910 --> 00:36:58,100
S1: You've got to cut back all that stuff, even down

797
00:36:58,100 --> 00:37:01,850
S1: to shit. We've been reviewed this week. We didn't know

798
00:37:01,850 --> 00:37:03,890
S1: they're coming to take a photo. All of that stuff

799
00:37:03,890 --> 00:37:06,200
S1: plays out in fine dining land, and I think the

800
00:37:06,200 --> 00:37:08,299
S1: show does that well. I think what's still kind of

801
00:37:08,300 --> 00:37:11,240
S1: missing is like, to what purpose? To what purpose? That

802
00:37:11,239 --> 00:37:15,440
S1: we exploring their anxieties about the fine dining space. I

803
00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:18,270
S1: didn't answer your question directly, I realized, Thomas, But, um,

804
00:37:18,420 --> 00:37:20,910
S1: you know, I think it's a partnership. I did. I did, though,

805
00:37:20,910 --> 00:37:23,549
S1: have a message with my chef this morning about something

806
00:37:23,550 --> 00:37:24,570
S1: financial related, but.

807
00:37:25,080 --> 00:37:25,350
S8: We'll keep.

808
00:37:25,350 --> 00:37:26,549
S1: The details of that private.

809
00:37:27,480 --> 00:37:30,990
S3: I will say, I think that if it does have

810
00:37:30,989 --> 00:37:35,069
S3: some standout episodes in the last five, that could save

811
00:37:35,070 --> 00:37:38,279
S3: the season, because I remember absolutely hating the first five

812
00:37:38,280 --> 00:37:40,739
S3: episodes of season two. I thought they were so sappy

813
00:37:40,739 --> 00:37:44,410
S3: and sentimental. And and then the last half absolutely saved it.

814
00:37:44,410 --> 00:37:47,259
S3: So I feel like I'm not completely ready to write

815
00:37:47,260 --> 00:37:50,080
S3: off the bear. I think it could redeem itself. And

816
00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:52,870
S3: even if it just has two episodes that everyone talks

817
00:37:52,870 --> 00:37:55,810
S3: about forever, that that that'll be something for me.

818
00:37:55,810 --> 00:37:59,020
S2: Okay, firstly, I would say you hated last season because

819
00:37:59,020 --> 00:38:00,550
S2: you didn't like that there was a love story and

820
00:38:00,550 --> 00:38:02,620
S2: you thought Claire was a manic pixie dream girl and

821
00:38:02,620 --> 00:38:05,170
S2: you just didn't want a bar of her, which apparently

822
00:38:05,170 --> 00:38:07,399
S2: seems to be in agreeance with what Christopher Storer thinks,

823
00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:09,860
S2: because she's basically only exists as a flashback now.

824
00:38:10,219 --> 00:38:11,870
S8: It didn't work out. Sorry, Claire, but.

825
00:38:12,080 --> 00:38:15,890
S2: No, I, I remember last season I didn't dislike the

826
00:38:15,890 --> 00:38:18,080
S2: first five as much as you and then the back five,

827
00:38:18,080 --> 00:38:21,260
S2: like really, really crushed it. I do think even if

828
00:38:21,260 --> 00:38:23,330
S2: the next five and you know, we've kind of all

829
00:38:23,330 --> 00:38:25,040
S2: read ahead in terms of like a little bit of

830
00:38:25,040 --> 00:38:26,840
S2: reviews and it seems that there are some really good

831
00:38:26,840 --> 00:38:29,060
S2: moments coming in in the back half of the season.

832
00:38:29,060 --> 00:38:31,290
S2: I still don't know, even if the next five absolutely

833
00:38:31,290 --> 00:38:33,090
S2: smack it out of the park. I don't, I just

834
00:38:33,090 --> 00:38:35,820
S2: know for a fact in my fucking soul that I

835
00:38:35,820 --> 00:38:37,860
S2: didn't feel the same watching these first five as I

836
00:38:37,860 --> 00:38:40,650
S2: have previously watching the show. Like it's just it's edged

837
00:38:40,650 --> 00:38:42,750
S2: off for me and so I don't know, I think

838
00:38:42,750 --> 00:38:45,390
S2: it'll yeah, unfortunately I don't know how good this season

839
00:38:45,390 --> 00:38:47,580
S2: can be. Even if the next five are absolutely stellar.

840
00:38:47,580 --> 00:38:48,870
S3: Will you hang up your apron?

841
00:38:49,469 --> 00:38:52,440
S2: Well, I don't know. I just yeah, I have to

842
00:38:52,440 --> 00:38:53,549
S2: seriously think about it.

843
00:38:53,550 --> 00:38:56,380
S3: My question is, is I don't know if Molly Gordon,

844
00:38:56,380 --> 00:38:58,720
S3: because I did avoid reading about the next episodes. I

845
00:38:58,719 --> 00:39:01,390
S3: don't know if Molly Gordon is coming back to play Claire,

846
00:39:01,390 --> 00:39:02,920
S3: and I don't know if I want her to. I

847
00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:04,450
S3: don't know if that's actually going to be really good

848
00:39:04,450 --> 00:39:06,910
S3: for the show or really bad. So I am interested

849
00:39:06,910 --> 00:39:09,640
S3: to see how they explore that or if they if

850
00:39:09,640 --> 00:39:10,420
S3: they go there.

851
00:39:10,840 --> 00:39:13,570
S1: I'm very proud of all of us showing restraint in this.

852
00:39:13,570 --> 00:39:16,570
S1: Thanks for. Yeah. So we'll be back next week with, uh,

853
00:39:16,570 --> 00:39:19,370
S1: the next five where, you know, maybe Thomas in real

854
00:39:19,370 --> 00:39:23,060
S1: time can, like, burn his apron. Um, in terms of

855
00:39:23,060 --> 00:39:25,279
S1: how he's feeling, put on the Marcus beanie. Do you

856
00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:27,319
S1: guys want to do a bit of a presumed innocent

857
00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:28,040
S1: check in?

858
00:39:28,040 --> 00:39:29,270
S3: Yes, I do, yes, I do.

859
00:39:29,480 --> 00:39:31,850
S1: So you guys talked about this with Meg? Uh, really

860
00:39:31,850 --> 00:39:34,040
S1: great chat. When I was off. I didn't get to

861
00:39:34,040 --> 00:39:36,890
S1: talk to you guys about it. Um, we're up to

862
00:39:36,890 --> 00:39:40,940
S1: episode four of that show just to put my, uh,

863
00:39:40,940 --> 00:39:43,390
S1: thoughts and feelings on the table. I really like this show.

864
00:39:43,420 --> 00:39:46,450
S1: I think it's great. Um, I think Jake Gyllenhaal is

865
00:39:46,450 --> 00:39:50,410
S1: the best he's been since, like, Zodiac or Nightcrawler. Like

866
00:39:50,410 --> 00:39:53,529
S1: he's doing really, really well doing a similar sort of job,

867
00:39:53,530 --> 00:39:56,379
S1: I think. I think this show is is great. It's

868
00:39:56,380 --> 00:40:00,370
S1: like one of the best crime procedurals I've seen since

869
00:40:00,370 --> 00:40:02,680
S1: the night of, like, I love David E Kelley, I

870
00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:05,680
S1: love Jake, I love Bill camp, I love Elisabeth Moss,

871
00:40:05,739 --> 00:40:08,410
S1: like all the side characters in this Peter Sarsgaard, they're

872
00:40:08,410 --> 00:40:11,920
S1: all so good and I'm so hooked. And I sort

873
00:40:11,920 --> 00:40:15,160
S1: of sometimes hate how every episode ends in that real

874
00:40:15,160 --> 00:40:17,770
S1: obvious cliffhanger way. But the show is so good, and

875
00:40:17,770 --> 00:40:20,170
S1: there are so many great characters and twists that I

876
00:40:20,170 --> 00:40:23,710
S1: kind of don't care. I'm really, really enjoying it. And yeah,

877
00:40:23,710 --> 00:40:25,330
S1: still loving it. Four apps in I.

878
00:40:25,330 --> 00:40:27,580
S3: Think the Night Of is a really good comparison and

879
00:40:27,580 --> 00:40:29,710
S3: I keep thinking of that. And also they keep saying

880
00:40:29,710 --> 00:40:32,690
S3: the night of in the series, but subliminal.

881
00:40:32,690 --> 00:40:32,930
S8: Yeah.

882
00:40:32,960 --> 00:40:34,310
S1: Bill camp was in both as well.

883
00:40:34,310 --> 00:40:36,080
S8: So there are a lot of obvious solutions.

884
00:40:36,080 --> 00:40:38,960
S3: But I yes, I think that's spot on. Um, I

885
00:40:38,960 --> 00:40:40,910
S3: was thinking about it. Why do I love this so much?

886
00:40:40,910 --> 00:40:44,330
S3: It's not like it's reinventing the wheel of the crime drama,

887
00:40:44,330 --> 00:40:46,820
S3: but it is so slick and the characters are all

888
00:40:46,820 --> 00:40:51,170
S3: so interesting, and the plot moves so fast that it's

889
00:40:51,170 --> 00:40:54,220
S3: just gripping to watch. And we talked about it with Meg,

890
00:40:54,219 --> 00:40:56,859
S3: but because I haven't seen the original and I don't

891
00:40:56,860 --> 00:41:00,160
S3: know if this deviates from the original book or movie

892
00:41:00,160 --> 00:41:03,790
S3: at all, I really don't know who is responsible. Yeah,

893
00:41:03,790 --> 00:41:06,010
S3: who done it. So, um, and they keep throwing in

894
00:41:06,010 --> 00:41:08,560
S3: new contenders. So yeah, it's got me completely hooked. And

895
00:41:08,560 --> 00:41:10,899
S3: I would say it's maybe the best crime show I've

896
00:41:10,900 --> 00:41:13,509
S3: seen this year or in some time.

897
00:41:13,510 --> 00:41:15,370
S2: Yeah, I reckon it's 100% one of the shows of

898
00:41:15,370 --> 00:41:17,320
S2: the year. And it is funny because it's because it's

899
00:41:17,320 --> 00:41:20,029
S2: David E Kelley. It does. It almost feels like it's

900
00:41:20,030 --> 00:41:22,670
S2: it feels very contemporary and stuff, but it feels also

901
00:41:22,670 --> 00:41:25,250
S2: very 90s like, especially with the cliffhanger thing at the

902
00:41:25,250 --> 00:41:26,870
S2: end of each episode. And it's like, you know, big

903
00:41:26,870 --> 00:41:28,790
S2: moment and then like you kind of like shock and

904
00:41:28,790 --> 00:41:30,560
S2: awe and then like, the credits roll. I feel like

905
00:41:30,560 --> 00:41:33,319
S2: that's such a 90s tool that they used to use

906
00:41:33,320 --> 00:41:36,259
S2: in these shows, especially David E Kelley. Um, but yeah,

907
00:41:36,260 --> 00:41:38,540
S2: I think it's it's definitely one of the shows of

908
00:41:38,540 --> 00:41:40,819
S2: the year and especially, I guess, you know, coming off

909
00:41:40,820 --> 00:41:43,180
S2: the back of talking about the bear. But again, I

910
00:41:43,180 --> 00:41:46,390
S2: reckon like the ensemble casting for this Is so good, like,

911
00:41:46,390 --> 00:41:48,850
S2: you could, I could happily watch an entire bottle episode

912
00:41:48,850 --> 00:41:52,390
S2: of Peter Sarsgaard being a fucking slime ball or like,

913
00:41:52,390 --> 00:41:54,100
S2: I mean, we do get so much of Bill camp

914
00:41:54,100 --> 00:41:55,840
S2: and his wife and even their home life is like

915
00:41:55,840 --> 00:41:57,700
S2: such an interesting dynamic. Like everyone, you.

916
00:41:57,700 --> 00:41:59,739
S1: Know, they're a real couple in real life.

917
00:41:59,739 --> 00:42:00,310
S8: No, really.

918
00:42:00,640 --> 00:42:02,740
S1: Yeah, yeah. Elizabeth Marvel and Bill camp, which I think

919
00:42:02,739 --> 00:42:04,780
S1: adds an awesome layer. It makes it feel so real

920
00:42:04,780 --> 00:42:05,319
S1: watching them.

921
00:42:05,320 --> 00:42:05,530
S8: Yeah.

922
00:42:05,530 --> 00:42:07,670
S2: Especially especially because like the way they bicker feels so

923
00:42:07,670 --> 00:42:09,890
S2: real and she's like concerned about his health. But you know,

924
00:42:09,890 --> 00:42:12,440
S2: like it's yeah, that's great. I didn't know that. Um,

925
00:42:12,440 --> 00:42:15,350
S2: but yeah, like I just think it's across the board,

926
00:42:15,350 --> 00:42:17,719
S2: you know, like we spoke in last week's episode about,

927
00:42:17,719 --> 00:42:21,080
S2: you know, I guess like crime shows and the idea of, like,

928
00:42:21,080 --> 00:42:23,300
S2: another really gruesome death to a young woman and how

929
00:42:23,300 --> 00:42:25,910
S2: that is becoming tired. And yet, here we are. I

930
00:42:25,910 --> 00:42:28,609
S2: do feel like, unfortunately, this show like slots neatly into

931
00:42:28,610 --> 00:42:30,230
S2: those categories. And yet it feels like one of the

932
00:42:30,230 --> 00:42:32,930
S2: most gripping shows of the year.

933
00:42:32,930 --> 00:42:35,270
S3: And if you compare the two leads, Jeremy Allen White

934
00:42:35,270 --> 00:42:38,330
S3: as Carmy and Jake Gyllenhaal, they're both moody and hot,

935
00:42:38,330 --> 00:42:43,850
S3: quote unquote and complete quote unquote complicated men, but who

936
00:42:43,850 --> 00:42:46,190
S3: don't say a lot and are obviously just kind of

937
00:42:46,190 --> 00:42:48,650
S3: messing up their lives and everyone else's in the process

938
00:42:48,650 --> 00:42:51,410
S3: of dealing with their issues. But like the way they

939
00:42:51,410 --> 00:42:54,819
S3: do it with Jake Gyllenhaal, it's complicated. It's way more

940
00:42:54,820 --> 00:42:57,250
S3: complicated than what they're doing with kami. And you kind

941
00:42:57,250 --> 00:43:00,069
S3: of hate him. You feel for him, you understand him.

942
00:43:00,070 --> 00:43:03,070
S3: It it has a different emotional complexity to it. I

943
00:43:03,070 --> 00:43:05,140
S3: think if you're looking at those leads.

944
00:43:05,320 --> 00:43:06,160
S2: Would you say he's so.

945
00:43:06,160 --> 00:43:06,759
S8: Sexy?

946
00:43:06,790 --> 00:43:10,959
S1: Jake Gyllenhaal I mean, he's incredibly jacked in this. It's

947
00:43:10,960 --> 00:43:12,100
S1: crazy how jacked he is.

948
00:43:12,100 --> 00:43:12,850
S8: I know I was.

949
00:43:12,850 --> 00:43:14,920
S3: Thinking like, if that was my I don't want to

950
00:43:14,920 --> 00:43:16,330
S3: say daddy, but like.

951
00:43:16,600 --> 00:43:17,350
S8: You can say daddy.

952
00:43:18,100 --> 00:43:21,130
S3: If I was those children and that was my dad. Like,

953
00:43:21,130 --> 00:43:24,160
S3: imagine having Jake Gyllenhaal looking like that as your father.

954
00:43:24,520 --> 00:43:27,910
S1: Yeah, he's come off the, um, the road. What's that film?

955
00:43:28,180 --> 00:43:29,650
S8: Oh, yeah. Roadhouse.

956
00:43:29,650 --> 00:43:32,650
S1: Yeah. He's come off the Roadhouse set just straight into, like,

957
00:43:32,650 --> 00:43:34,810
S1: playing a prosecutor. And there's a couple of scenes in

958
00:43:34,810 --> 00:43:36,610
S1: the first few where he swims a lot, so you're like, oh,

959
00:43:36,610 --> 00:43:38,350
S1: that's why he's jacked. I don't think you get that

960
00:43:38,350 --> 00:43:41,080
S1: jacked from doing a couple of laps. Uh, Jake G.

961
00:43:41,110 --> 00:43:43,970
S3: I mean, he's doing a bit of other physical activity

962
00:43:43,969 --> 00:43:44,420
S3: as well.

963
00:43:44,420 --> 00:43:45,020
S8: I mean, also, I.

964
00:43:45,020 --> 00:43:47,870
S2: Think, like we've all seen enough, like police, prosecutors. My

965
00:43:47,870 --> 00:43:49,880
S2: dad's a criminal lawyer. I've been to work with him. No,

966
00:43:49,880 --> 00:43:52,250
S2: fucking none of them look like Jake Gyllenhaal. They look

967
00:43:52,250 --> 00:43:52,969
S2: like Bill camp.

968
00:43:52,969 --> 00:43:54,710
S3: I love that you brought your dad into it.

969
00:43:55,340 --> 00:43:57,469
S1: To go back to your point, Mel, about, you know,

970
00:43:57,469 --> 00:44:00,800
S1: how it compares to the film. I've seen the film.

971
00:44:00,800 --> 00:44:04,100
S1: I don't know whether or not like it'll resolve itself

972
00:44:04,100 --> 00:44:06,150
S1: in the same way. And I've got to say, even

973
00:44:06,150 --> 00:44:08,430
S1: if I've seen the film, I don't like, the show

974
00:44:08,430 --> 00:44:10,529
S1: has enough going on that I'm still pretty fascinated and

975
00:44:10,530 --> 00:44:13,950
S1: glued to my seat. One of the most obvious changes

976
00:44:13,950 --> 00:44:15,780
S1: that I think is a really great change, and you

977
00:44:15,780 --> 00:44:19,529
S1: probably won't be surprised to hear this. The role of

978
00:44:19,530 --> 00:44:23,160
S1: Caroline Polhemus, the murdered woman played by Greta Scacchi in

979
00:44:23,160 --> 00:44:27,480
S1: the film, very reflective of the social attitude towards like

980
00:44:27,480 --> 00:44:30,610
S1: women in Hollywood in the 90s in the sense that

981
00:44:30,610 --> 00:44:34,000
S1: she's basically, like, slut shamed for what she's done and

982
00:44:34,000 --> 00:44:36,759
S1: you don't really feel, I mean, like, you obviously feel

983
00:44:36,760 --> 00:44:38,379
S1: sorry for her because she's dead, but the film is

984
00:44:38,380 --> 00:44:41,830
S1: not that sympathetic to her. Whereas I think the character here,

985
00:44:41,830 --> 00:44:45,370
S1: played by Renate Reinsve, is far more interesting, far more complicated.

986
00:44:45,370 --> 00:44:47,920
S1: She gets around to like life before you find out

987
00:44:47,920 --> 00:44:49,900
S1: a lot more about her. And I think that's a

988
00:44:49,900 --> 00:44:54,010
S1: really smart change that they've made to the show. And

989
00:44:54,020 --> 00:44:55,460
S1: just the last thing I want to say, I don't

990
00:44:55,460 --> 00:44:57,680
S1: know how to pronounce his last name. O-T Fagbenle, who

991
00:44:57,680 --> 00:45:01,190
S1: plays Nico Della Guardia, who's from the, um, he's so good, too.

992
00:45:01,219 --> 00:45:03,680
S1: He's so good. And he he's English, so he doesn't

993
00:45:03,680 --> 00:45:06,260
S1: sound like that. So he's doing this thing with, like,

994
00:45:06,260 --> 00:45:09,260
S1: his chin jutting forward and that kind of like, you know,

995
00:45:09,260 --> 00:45:12,110
S1: arrogant tone that he has. I would watch an entire

996
00:45:12,110 --> 00:45:14,780
S1: spin off show, like David E Kelley loves doing spin offs.

997
00:45:14,780 --> 00:45:17,330
S1: I'd love to see him just being this kind of

998
00:45:17,330 --> 00:45:21,810
S1: dodgy chief prosecutor. Uh, in, in Chicago, just.

999
00:45:21,810 --> 00:45:23,310
S2: Bullying Peter Sarsgaard. Those two.

1000
00:45:23,340 --> 00:45:24,060
S8: Together are.

1001
00:45:24,060 --> 00:45:25,529
S2: So they make my skin.

1002
00:45:25,530 --> 00:45:26,610
S8: Crawl, I love it.

1003
00:45:26,940 --> 00:45:29,880
S2: It's. Yeah, it's it's it's it's such a good show. And, um,

1004
00:45:29,880 --> 00:45:34,170
S2: I annoyingly I watched ahead on the screen as which

1005
00:45:34,170 --> 00:45:36,300
S2: we get access to for review purposes, but they don't

1006
00:45:36,300 --> 00:45:38,549
S2: drop the finale until like, the data goes here, which

1007
00:45:38,550 --> 00:45:41,310
S2: is still a month away. So I'm now just like

1008
00:45:41,610 --> 00:45:44,259
S2: kind of stewing on this, but, uh, yeah, that's obviously I.

1009
00:45:44,260 --> 00:45:46,450
S1: Thought about going ahead with the screeners, but I decided

1010
00:45:46,450 --> 00:45:48,219
S1: against that for that reason. I don't want to catch

1011
00:45:48,219 --> 00:45:50,140
S1: up and have to wait a month. But no, I'm

1012
00:45:50,140 --> 00:45:52,120
S1: super hooked. And maybe we should check in again at

1013
00:45:52,120 --> 00:45:54,850
S1: the finale and see if it's delivered. All right, guys,

1014
00:45:54,850 --> 00:45:58,150
S1: before we round out, we've got our regular Impress Your

1015
00:45:58,150 --> 00:46:02,440
S1: Friends segment sharing something we've watched, read, listened to, Consumed

1016
00:46:02,440 --> 00:46:06,100
S1: in culture over the past week. Thomas, why don't you

1017
00:46:06,290 --> 00:46:07,400
S1: go first on this one?

1018
00:46:07,400 --> 00:46:11,390
S2: Yeah. Perfect. Uh, this is another TV show. Uh, I thought, look,

1019
00:46:11,390 --> 00:46:14,719
S2: we all know, uh, the countdown to the Olympics is on. It's,

1020
00:46:14,719 --> 00:46:16,820
S2: I don't know, however many days away. And, you know,

1021
00:46:16,820 --> 00:46:18,680
S2: we've all kind of really gotten into these, like, fly

1022
00:46:18,680 --> 00:46:21,319
S2: on the wall sports documentaries that Netflix has been doing

1023
00:46:21,320 --> 00:46:25,400
S2: breakpoint and, um, like the football ones and the, you know,

1024
00:46:25,400 --> 00:46:28,910
S2: NFL ones and stuff. But this is Sprint on Netflix. Uh,

1025
00:46:29,000 --> 00:46:32,130
S2: it comes out on Friday. It's ten episodes, and I

1026
00:46:32,130 --> 00:46:34,950
S2: found it so fascinating and like, so basically it takes

1027
00:46:34,950 --> 00:46:40,020
S2: you inside the particularly the 100 metre male sprint circuit

1028
00:46:40,020 --> 00:46:42,330
S2: in the year leading up to the Olympic final. Uh,

1029
00:46:42,330 --> 00:46:44,609
S2: and I guess it's always been the blue ribbon event

1030
00:46:44,610 --> 00:46:46,739
S2: for the Olympics. You know, obviously Usain Bolt won it

1031
00:46:46,739 --> 00:46:48,930
S2: three Olympics in a row. It's kind of that one

1032
00:46:48,930 --> 00:46:52,710
S2: event that everyone tunes into. It's like everything to athletics.

1033
00:46:52,710 --> 00:46:55,810
S2: And it follows, I guess, the major contenders. And I

1034
00:46:55,810 --> 00:46:58,239
S2: just found it so interesting to meet these guys. The

1035
00:46:58,239 --> 00:47:01,660
S2: first episode is basically about the Olympic champion, the Italian

1036
00:47:01,660 --> 00:47:04,420
S2: Marcell Jacobs, and then like the next up and comer,

1037
00:47:04,420 --> 00:47:07,210
S2: Noah Lyles, this young American guy. And basically those two

1038
00:47:07,210 --> 00:47:08,680
S2: are going to be like it seems battling it out

1039
00:47:08,680 --> 00:47:10,600
S2: at the Olympics. But it just shows you like what

1040
00:47:10,600 --> 00:47:13,960
S2: goes into the training for this, how insane it is

1041
00:47:13,960 --> 00:47:16,660
S2: to like spend your life basically working on a nine

1042
00:47:16,660 --> 00:47:19,040
S2: second run. It did the exact thing that I want

1043
00:47:19,040 --> 00:47:20,690
S2: a sports documentary to do, which is like give you

1044
00:47:20,690 --> 00:47:23,870
S2: insight into a part of this, I guess, like arena

1045
00:47:23,870 --> 00:47:25,219
S2: that you never really go into or you have no

1046
00:47:25,219 --> 00:47:27,680
S2: interest in. So yeah, that Sprint on Netflix, I really,

1047
00:47:27,680 --> 00:47:28,430
S2: really enjoyed it.

1048
00:47:28,430 --> 00:47:30,740
S1: Great shot. Very excited to watch a bunch of sport

1049
00:47:30,739 --> 00:47:33,140
S1: docos in the lead up to the greatest sporting event

1050
00:47:33,140 --> 00:47:34,100
S1: every four years.

1051
00:47:34,489 --> 00:47:39,230
S3: Mine actually is also a sporting choice. Like if this

1052
00:47:39,230 --> 00:47:41,930
S3: isn't enough reason why we shouldn't be enough to get

1053
00:47:41,930 --> 00:47:44,940
S3: us sent to the Olympics, I don't know what is.

1054
00:47:45,060 --> 00:47:46,740
S8: I reckon that's a long shot.

1055
00:47:46,920 --> 00:47:49,680
S1: Every time I bigger issues in the fire, Mel. Yeah.

1056
00:47:49,680 --> 00:47:52,290
S3: That's true. Still, every time I see the sports editor here,

1057
00:47:52,290 --> 00:47:54,600
S3: I'm like, we're ready to go. Like, we've got our

1058
00:47:54,600 --> 00:47:58,590
S3: bags packed. Um. Uh, mine is the tour de France.

1059
00:47:58,620 --> 00:48:01,020
S1: Oh, thank God someone mentioned this.

1060
00:48:01,620 --> 00:48:03,540
S3: Which I know you're a big fan of. I don't

1061
00:48:03,540 --> 00:48:06,669
S3: think we've quite convinced you, Thomas, yet to get into cycling,

1062
00:48:06,670 --> 00:48:07,630
S3: but I would like to.

1063
00:48:07,630 --> 00:48:09,130
S2: It is very funny. Like whenever we talk in our

1064
00:48:09,130 --> 00:48:11,410
S2: group chat, there's very few things that, like all three

1065
00:48:11,410 --> 00:48:13,750
S2: of us don't like, discuss together. And then whenever you

1066
00:48:13,750 --> 00:48:15,400
S2: guys are talking cycling, have you noticed I just disappear

1067
00:48:15,400 --> 00:48:16,030
S2: for like a day?

1068
00:48:16,030 --> 00:48:16,690
S8: Yeah, yeah.

1069
00:48:16,690 --> 00:48:18,430
S1: I think you and I have a couple of things

1070
00:48:18,430 --> 00:48:20,919
S1: that we just talk that Mel politely ignores, probably for

1071
00:48:20,920 --> 00:48:23,650
S1: like sake of her mental health and sanity. But there

1072
00:48:23,650 --> 00:48:25,300
S1: are not many things that just Mel and I are

1073
00:48:25,300 --> 00:48:27,219
S1: on a track on that you aren't in. And it's

1074
00:48:27,219 --> 00:48:29,500
S1: like Latour is the main one. It is.

1075
00:48:29,500 --> 00:48:29,770
S8: Yeah.

1076
00:48:29,770 --> 00:48:33,780
S3: That's it. It's stage five tonight on SBS. Um, if

1077
00:48:33,780 --> 00:48:37,050
S3: you never watched it, I honestly think you don't have

1078
00:48:37,050 --> 00:48:39,840
S3: to be across the rules because cycling tours can be

1079
00:48:39,840 --> 00:48:45,600
S3: very confusing. There's lots going on. There's a lot of people, teams, strategy, rules, positions.

1080
00:48:45,600 --> 00:48:48,120
S3: I don't even think you need to worry about that.

1081
00:48:48,120 --> 00:48:50,279
S3: You can just turn it on and watch six hours

1082
00:48:50,280 --> 00:48:54,960
S3: of lovely countryside people riding their bikes. Great commentary team

1083
00:48:54,960 --> 00:48:58,469
S3: Matthew Keenan, Bridie O'Donnell, Simon Gerrans this perfect mix of

1084
00:48:58,469 --> 00:49:02,969
S3: kind of medical expertise, cycling expertise, cycling knowledge and just

1085
00:49:02,969 --> 00:49:05,459
S3: enjoy yourself, enjoy the tour. Pets that pop on. That's

1086
00:49:05,460 --> 00:49:08,010
S3: when people send pictures of their pets watching the tour.

1087
00:49:08,010 --> 00:49:12,630
S3: Enjoy the food. It's just delightful. And Thomas, can you

1088
00:49:12,630 --> 00:49:13,350
S3: watch it?

1089
00:49:13,350 --> 00:49:15,330
S1: I couldn't agree more. We should have done a whole

1090
00:49:15,330 --> 00:49:18,400
S1: episode on this like it is amazing to watch. There

1091
00:49:18,400 --> 00:49:21,370
S1: was a bit of the trivia that you get gourmet

1092
00:49:21,400 --> 00:49:24,130
S1: cooking telling you what regional cuisine is like. There was

1093
00:49:24,130 --> 00:49:27,100
S1: this bit where Brady was talking about that, a town

1094
00:49:27,100 --> 00:49:29,650
S1: in Italy, because the tour started this year in Italy, um,

1095
00:49:29,650 --> 00:49:32,020
S1: that they're going through and they're like that building there

1096
00:49:32,020 --> 00:49:34,239
S1: that there was like this helicopter shot. This old museum

1097
00:49:34,239 --> 00:49:38,620
S1: holds the Beretta pistol that was used to shoot Benito Mussolini. Yeah.

1098
00:49:38,620 --> 00:49:41,410
S1: And I'm like, that is awesome. I am just watching

1099
00:49:41,410 --> 00:49:45,040
S1: a bunch of weird men cycle and I'm learning some history. Uh,

1100
00:49:45,040 --> 00:49:47,770
S1: I'm learning some details about the history of Italian fascism.

1101
00:49:47,950 --> 00:49:48,640
S1: That is great.

1102
00:49:48,640 --> 00:49:50,590
S2: Do you feel like, does it relax you? Because it's

1103
00:49:50,590 --> 00:49:52,239
S2: often before bed, and I feel like you guys are

1104
00:49:52,239 --> 00:49:54,819
S2: texting while I'm, like, trying to go to sleep and

1105
00:49:54,820 --> 00:49:56,440
S2: you're like, ah, yeah. And this is like, is it

1106
00:49:56,440 --> 00:49:57,490
S2: a cathartic thing?

1107
00:49:57,489 --> 00:50:00,010
S3: It is. It is very pleasant view. But I also

1108
00:50:00,010 --> 00:50:04,330
S3: really do admire the athleticism of these men competing like

1109
00:50:04,330 --> 00:50:06,250
S3: they go back to back for three weeks. They're covering

1110
00:50:06,250 --> 00:50:09,760
S3: hundreds of kilometers at gradients that are I mean, I

1111
00:50:09,760 --> 00:50:11,560
S3: don't know if you've ever ridden a bike, but gradients

1112
00:50:11,560 --> 00:50:15,760
S3: that are completely insane and they fall off and they

1113
00:50:15,760 --> 00:50:18,610
S3: get sick and they just keep going because they have

1114
00:50:18,610 --> 00:50:22,030
S3: this one opportunity. And their window professionally for competing is

1115
00:50:22,030 --> 00:50:24,730
S3: so small that it really is high stakes. And then

1116
00:50:24,730 --> 00:50:26,590
S3: you kind of wonder, like there's not heaps of money

1117
00:50:26,590 --> 00:50:28,540
S3: in cycling, like it's not a sport.

1118
00:50:28,540 --> 00:50:29,350
S8: That that freaks, that.

1119
00:50:29,350 --> 00:50:32,489
S3: Total freaks they're doing this for. It's just I really

1120
00:50:32,489 --> 00:50:33,540
S3: admire that too.

1121
00:50:33,540 --> 00:50:35,430
S1: I think it's similar to test cricket in a way,

1122
00:50:35,430 --> 00:50:37,620
S1: in that so much of it is just very peaceful

1123
00:50:37,620 --> 00:50:40,260
S1: and meditative to watch, and quite beautiful in terms of

1124
00:50:40,260 --> 00:50:42,990
S1: the aerial shots over the French countryside. But then there

1125
00:50:42,989 --> 00:50:45,030
S1: are these moments that kind of come up out of nowhere,

1126
00:50:45,030 --> 00:50:47,610
S1: where someone will just challenge someone to win a point

1127
00:50:47,610 --> 00:50:49,259
S1: in a sprint or in a climb, and you just

1128
00:50:49,260 --> 00:50:51,900
S1: see something really exciting, and then it just goes back

1129
00:50:51,900 --> 00:50:55,109
S1: to being this relaxing lull of the waves just gently

1130
00:50:55,110 --> 00:50:57,900
S1: crashing over you as you try to go to sleep.

1131
00:50:57,900 --> 00:50:58,590
S1: It's great stuff.

1132
00:50:58,590 --> 00:51:00,870
S3: And also man the field art. So in the tour

1133
00:51:00,870 --> 00:51:03,570
S3: there's a whole thing where like there's everyone in the

1134
00:51:03,570 --> 00:51:07,320
S3: field does like artwork and they're they're insane. Like when

1135
00:51:07,320 --> 00:51:10,500
S3: you see hundreds of tractors going around in a circle

1136
00:51:10,500 --> 00:51:13,680
S3: to make the wheel of a bike, it. Yeah. Look,

1137
00:51:13,680 --> 00:51:15,239
S3: just watch it tonight. We'll text.

1138
00:51:15,239 --> 00:51:15,810
S8: Okay, fine.

1139
00:51:15,810 --> 00:51:17,850
S2: I will give it a go. You have impressed me,

1140
00:51:17,850 --> 00:51:19,390
S2: and I am your friend. So, look, I.

1141
00:51:19,540 --> 00:51:20,380
S8: No doubt.

1142
00:51:20,500 --> 00:51:21,580
S2: Our listeners will get on.

1143
00:51:21,580 --> 00:51:23,410
S1: Board. That's why we called it that. That's why we

1144
00:51:23,410 --> 00:51:27,220
S1: called it that. Um, mine is a TV show. Um,

1145
00:51:27,219 --> 00:51:30,880
S1: you guys remember the film that came out in 1994?

1146
00:51:30,880 --> 00:51:32,770
S1: Interview with the vampire?

1147
00:51:32,770 --> 00:51:33,910
S8: I do, yeah, starring.

1148
00:51:33,910 --> 00:51:39,070
S1: Brad Pitt and Tom cruise. Kirsten Dunst, Christian Slater, based

1149
00:51:39,070 --> 00:51:42,920
S1: on the novels by Anne Rice. Turns out, like, quietly,

1150
00:51:42,920 --> 00:51:44,900
S1: for the last two years, there's been one of the

1151
00:51:44,900 --> 00:51:49,100
S1: best TV series around. That is an adaptation of the

1152
00:51:49,100 --> 00:51:51,620
S1: books as well. It's a TV adaptation compared to a

1153
00:51:51,620 --> 00:51:55,730
S1: film adaptation. It's on ABC iview actually. Interview with a vampire.

1154
00:51:55,760 --> 00:52:01,160
S1: It stars Australia's Sam Reid, also Jacob Anderson. It's really,

1155
00:52:01,160 --> 00:52:04,070
S1: really good. It's not that kind of like True Blood

1156
00:52:04,070 --> 00:52:06,460
S1: Twilight sort of thing. It's a bit darker, a bit

1157
00:52:06,460 --> 00:52:08,830
S1: more interesting. It feels more contemporary in terms of what

1158
00:52:08,830 --> 00:52:11,620
S1: it's trying to grapple with. The books famously have these

1159
00:52:11,620 --> 00:52:17,410
S1: quite sharp, queer themes to them that the film largely eradicated,

1160
00:52:17,410 --> 00:52:20,710
S1: like very, very subtle. They're they're back in this in

1161
00:52:20,710 --> 00:52:25,000
S1: a really interesting and fun and sharp way. And I

1162
00:52:25,000 --> 00:52:27,790
S1: think it reminded me of, like, the Ripley TV adaptation

1163
00:52:27,790 --> 00:52:30,730
S1: in that way, where we had this Ripley film that

1164
00:52:30,730 --> 00:52:33,460
S1: was great, but, you know, softened some of the edges

1165
00:52:33,460 --> 00:52:35,560
S1: of the original source material, and then it takes you

1166
00:52:35,560 --> 00:52:37,900
S1: some time to to delve back into them. Interview with

1167
00:52:37,900 --> 00:52:41,320
S1: a vampire is is doing that. It's sort of like

1168
00:52:41,320 --> 00:52:44,080
S1: going back to the text and picking the bits that

1169
00:52:44,080 --> 00:52:46,600
S1: are interesting, but maybe didn't feel right in the in

1170
00:52:46,600 --> 00:52:48,850
S1: the early to mid 90s. It's just been renewed for

1171
00:52:48,850 --> 00:52:51,640
S1: a third season, but the first two are on iview.

1172
00:52:51,640 --> 00:52:54,190
S1: If you're just looking for something that's like fun and

1173
00:52:54,210 --> 00:52:57,120
S1: interesting and dramatic, give this series a go. Sam Reid

1174
00:52:57,120 --> 00:52:59,580
S1: people might know him from the newsreader. He's really great.

1175
00:52:59,580 --> 00:53:02,640
S1: Great Australian actor. Great in this series. That's my rec.

1176
00:53:02,640 --> 00:53:04,350
S3: That's a good one. Is it scary?

1177
00:53:05,070 --> 00:53:06,480
S1: No, I wouldn't say so.

1178
00:53:06,480 --> 00:53:06,779
S8: Yeah, but.

1179
00:53:06,780 --> 00:53:07,590
S3: You're pretty brave.

1180
00:53:07,620 --> 00:53:09,779
S1: It's like a it's like about vampires, but like a

1181
00:53:09,780 --> 00:53:11,879
S1: horror themed show, you know, it's like American Horror Story.

1182
00:53:11,880 --> 00:53:15,270
S1: It's not going to make you, uh, jump up and be.

1183
00:53:15,270 --> 00:53:17,070
S1: I mean, it might. I don't know about your threshold

1184
00:53:17,070 --> 00:53:17,850
S1: for these things.

1185
00:53:18,690 --> 00:53:19,259
S8: I mean.

1186
00:53:19,260 --> 00:53:21,900
S2: Considering you spent the last six weeks just watching polite.

1187
00:53:21,900 --> 00:53:24,540
S8: Countryside and, you know, tractor art, I.

1188
00:53:24,540 --> 00:53:26,279
S3: Get the heebie jeebies pretty easily.

1189
00:53:26,880 --> 00:53:30,600
S1: Guys, that was a great conversation about a bunch of television.

1190
00:53:30,600 --> 00:53:33,450
S1: Looking forward to your thoughts on the tour, and looking

1191
00:53:33,450 --> 00:53:35,790
S1: forward to chatting with you guys next week about what

1192
00:53:35,790 --> 00:53:39,690
S1: will hopefully be a better and more redeeming second half

1193
00:53:39,690 --> 00:53:40,680
S1: of the bear.

1194
00:53:40,920 --> 00:53:41,550
S3: Looking forward to.

1195
00:53:41,550 --> 00:53:42,270
S8: It. Let it rip.

1196
00:53:46,510 --> 00:53:49,480
S1: This episode of The Drop was produced by Kai Huang.

1197
00:53:49,510 --> 00:53:52,150
S1: If you enjoyed listening to today's episode of The Drop,

1198
00:53:52,150 --> 00:53:54,730
S1: make sure to follow us in your favorite podcast app.

1199
00:53:54,730 --> 00:53:57,130
S1: Leave us a review or better yet, share it with

1200
00:53:57,130 --> 00:54:00,160
S1: a friend! I'm Usman Farooqui. See you next week!