WEBVTT - Is our housing bubble beginning to burst? 0:00:07.120 --> 0:00:10.280 Our four biggest banks have reported a drop in the 0:00:10.280 --> 0:00:13.880 numbers of people taking out mortgage loans. One has even 0:00:13.880 --> 0:00:17.560 forecast a significant drop in house prices in two cities. 0:00:18.079 --> 0:00:21.400 But then came the reserve Bank governor last week with 0:00:21.400 --> 0:00:25.840 a stern warning. I'm Samantha Zellinger Maurice, and you're listening 0:00:25.880 --> 0:00:28.800 to Morning Edition. From The Age and the Sydney Morning 0:00:28.800 --> 0:00:34.040 Herald today, senior economics correspondent Shane Wright on whether the 0:00:34.040 --> 0:00:44.360 housing bubble is finally beginning to burst. It's August the 18th. Shane, 0:00:44.360 --> 0:00:45.760 welcome back to the podcast. 0:00:46.040 --> 0:00:48.480 Oh, why wouldn't I come back to see your happy 0:00:48.479 --> 0:00:49.440 face again, Sam? 0:00:49.479 --> 0:00:51.560 Well, I'll tell you, I think I'm happy as a 0:00:51.560 --> 0:00:53.680 result of reading your last feature. Tell me if I've 0:00:53.680 --> 0:00:56.760 read it right. First off, let's start by you telling 0:00:56.760 --> 0:01:00.120 us what the economics team from the ANZ Bank has 0:01:00.120 --> 0:01:03.890 said about housing prices in Sydney and in Melbourne falling 0:01:03.890 --> 0:01:04.650 going forward. 0:01:05.090 --> 0:01:07.250 That's right. We've had a lot of new forecasts out 0:01:07.250 --> 0:01:11.889 from the big banks and the ANZ. Their economics team 0:01:11.890 --> 0:01:16.530 is predicting it's like a 14.5% fall in Sydney's median 0:01:16.530 --> 0:01:22.450 house prices between this year and into next. Just under 13% 0:01:22.450 --> 0:01:27.729 for Melbourne and smaller falls across all the other capital cities. 0:01:28.330 --> 0:01:32.690 And this would then be corrected in 2028, with house 0:01:32.690 --> 0:01:36.490 prices supposedly going up. They're the most bearish of all 0:01:37.130 --> 0:01:42.130 the big economics teams, and the history of predictions on 0:01:42.130 --> 0:01:47.650 house prices is pretty terrible from most from most analysts. 0:01:47.650 --> 0:01:50.570 It's very difficult to pick because you also have to 0:01:50.570 --> 0:01:52.450 take into account what the reserve Bank might get up 0:01:52.450 --> 0:01:56.810 to and other big macro effects. So always difficult. But 0:01:56.810 --> 0:02:00.650 these have generated a lot of interest because a lot 0:02:00.650 --> 0:02:03.330 of people seem to think that house prices never fall 0:02:03.330 --> 0:02:06.410 in this country. And my goodness, I could sell these 0:02:06.410 --> 0:02:10.330 people a bridge over Sydney Harbour because there is a 0:02:10.370 --> 0:02:16.489 long history of price, corrections, price, downfalls and most infamously, 0:02:16.530 --> 0:02:21.490 an absolute crash which precipitated probably our worst depression. But 0:02:21.530 --> 0:02:24.330 neither you or I were around for the 1890s depression 0:02:24.330 --> 0:02:29.850 of Melbourne where, uh, where house prices actually fell 50%. Wow. Yeah, 0:02:30.210 --> 0:02:32.450 it was all tied up with the financial system in 0:02:32.450 --> 0:02:35.410 Melbourne at the time. Very different world. Um, and it 0:02:35.410 --> 0:02:38.649 was one of the reasons that Sydney became larger than 0:02:38.650 --> 0:02:40.930 Melbourne and became the financial centre of the, of the 0:02:40.930 --> 0:02:43.329 country because of what happened in the 1890s. 0:02:43.530 --> 0:02:45.850 It's interesting. And there's also been some other metrics out 0:02:45.850 --> 0:02:48.370 there that you might help us, uh, read into to 0:02:48.410 --> 0:02:50.450 sort of find out how our housing market is at 0:02:50.450 --> 0:02:52.770 the moment. So I guess just tell us about our 0:02:52.770 --> 0:02:57.370 country's other biggest banks besides the ANZ. What have they revealed? 0:02:57.490 --> 0:03:00.329 In particular, I guess, about how many loan applications they 0:03:00.330 --> 0:03:04.740 have received or not, because they also have released financial updates, right? 0:03:04.980 --> 0:03:08.740 Yeah. So all the banks like the ANZ, NAB and 0:03:08.740 --> 0:03:13.060 Westpac released their their quarterly results last week. And the 0:03:13.060 --> 0:03:16.460 Commonwealth Bank released its annual results. And all of them 0:03:16.460 --> 0:03:19.420 have picked up that there's been a big fall in 0:03:19.980 --> 0:03:23.500 applications for mortgages since the budget. Now they were there 0:03:23.500 --> 0:03:26.260 had been this had been slowing beforehand because of the 0:03:26.260 --> 0:03:29.980 reserve Bank starting to increase interest rates in February. And 0:03:29.980 --> 0:03:33.419 there was a little thing like the war that kicked 0:03:33.419 --> 0:03:37.620 off on February 28th, which has really affected the global economy. 0:03:37.660 --> 0:03:42.540 Anyone with a petrol driven car or a diesel driven 0:03:42.540 --> 0:03:45.860 truck would clearly understand what's been going on in that space. 0:03:46.580 --> 0:03:54.100 But really sizeable falls in applications predominantly amongst investors, which 0:03:54.300 --> 0:03:57.220 is effectively exactly what the government was expecting. And that 0:03:57.220 --> 0:03:59.340 was on the top of the box saying, we're going 0:03:59.340 --> 0:04:01.660 to do these changes. We're going to have fewer investors 0:04:01.790 --> 0:04:05.390 competing against first home buyers. There is some conflicting advice 0:04:05.390 --> 0:04:09.750 about what's coming out in terms of first home buyers specifically. 0:04:10.270 --> 0:04:14.070 Some have picked up a big fall, others have not. 0:04:14.110 --> 0:04:16.390 Have said no, it hasn't. There hasn't been a big 0:04:16.390 --> 0:04:20.430 drop off in first home buyers accessing it. The government's 0:04:20.430 --> 0:04:24.230 own 5% deposit scheme, which is managed by Housing Australia. 0:04:24.830 --> 0:04:30.270 They were. pre-Budget getting 188 applications a day. It's fallen 0:04:30.270 --> 0:04:34.670 to 186. So yeah, I think that's just a little 0:04:34.670 --> 0:04:37.869 bit of noise. But it wouldn't be the biggest surprise 0:04:38.150 --> 0:04:41.029 that first home buyers might be a little reticent at 0:04:41.029 --> 0:04:43.950 the moment, given how much like it's hard to open 0:04:43.950 --> 0:04:46.869 a paper or listen to a talkback radio star talking about, 0:04:46.870 --> 0:04:48.910 oh my God, end of days or oh my God, 0:04:48.910 --> 0:04:51.909 how affordable. A lot of conflicting advice for first home 0:04:51.910 --> 0:04:54.950 buyers who are on the precipice of diving into their 0:04:54.990 --> 0:04:58.669 probably their biggest personal investment ever. 0:04:59.350 --> 0:05:02.160 But like you said, I mean, lots of a slide, 0:05:02.160 --> 0:05:05.520 I guess. In mortgage applications, the NAB reported a 15% 0:05:05.520 --> 0:05:09.800 slide in those applications, the ANZ at 12% dip and 0:05:09.960 --> 0:05:14.400 the Commonwealth Bank 15% drop in loan applications, uh, and 0:05:14.400 --> 0:05:18.760 a 28% plunge in applications from investors. So bigger than 0:05:18.760 --> 0:05:21.880 expected declines. Is that right? Even though they were expected 0:05:22.080 --> 0:05:25.480 to decline, given that the reserve Bank had begun lifting 0:05:25.480 --> 0:05:27.160 interest rates earlier this year? 0:05:27.800 --> 0:05:30.800 Yeah, no one was really sure in terms of how 0:05:30.800 --> 0:05:34.000 many investors would come out of the market. And we 0:05:34.040 --> 0:05:37.440 don't know how long term this is, because on Friday, 0:05:37.440 --> 0:05:40.920 the Bureau of Stats, which actually tries to collect information 0:05:40.960 --> 0:05:45.120 on every mortgage that gets issued, they also showed a 0:05:45.120 --> 0:05:49.280 fairly sizable fall in the June quarter. So that's covering 0:05:49.400 --> 0:05:53.080 the like the 6 or 7 weeks from between the 0:05:53.120 --> 0:05:55.880 May budget being released and the end of the quarter. 0:05:56.360 --> 0:06:00.400 But it also picked up a sizable increase, in fact, 0:06:00.440 --> 0:06:04.160 to record levels, the number of mortgages taken out by 0:06:04.160 --> 0:06:09.560 investors to build new homes. Now, that was also part 0:06:09.560 --> 0:06:12.919 and parcel of the government's changes. Like the most important 0:06:12.920 --> 0:06:15.880 in this case is the negative gearing one, which is 0:06:15.880 --> 0:06:18.320 you can negatively gear as long as you build a 0:06:18.320 --> 0:06:23.000 new house. So you can. These are preliminary. So I'm 0:06:23.040 --> 0:06:25.600 really reticent to go, oh my God, we've got absolute 0:06:25.600 --> 0:06:30.520 proof of everything. It's like seeing a video of a 0:06:30.680 --> 0:06:36.920 Sasquatch wandering around, uh, parts of Northern America. Uh, let's 0:06:36.920 --> 0:06:39.920 get a bit more evidence in before we. We declare 0:06:39.920 --> 0:06:44.720 that sasquatches are real. Uh, next we'll be talking about yetis. Um, 0:06:45.080 --> 0:06:49.960 but there is a preliminary sign that that's working as intended. 0:06:50.000 --> 0:06:53.440 Of course, all the big banks have noted this. You've 0:06:53.440 --> 0:06:57.279 still got the reserve Bank. Uh, its rate rises now 0:06:57.320 --> 0:07:00.640 rate increases take between 12 and 18 months to fully 0:07:00.640 --> 0:07:03.969 work their way through an economy. So they've only been 0:07:04.010 --> 0:07:06.730 they've only increased them between February and May. So we 0:07:06.730 --> 0:07:08.690 have still got a long way to go on that one. 0:07:08.810 --> 0:07:11.410 And the other, of course, is the flow on flow 0:07:11.410 --> 0:07:14.930 on impact from the war, what it's done to petrol prices. 0:07:15.130 --> 0:07:17.450 So petrol is back over $2 a litre in just 0:07:17.450 --> 0:07:21.250 about every capital city at the moment. We can see 0:07:21.250 --> 0:07:23.490 what's happening there. Like we've had a huge increase in 0:07:23.490 --> 0:07:27.490 the number of people buying electric vehicles. So that is 0:07:27.490 --> 0:07:32.050 churning around in the in the in the background as well. 0:07:32.250 --> 0:07:36.290 I suspect between you and I, Sam, that there are 0:07:36.290 --> 0:07:39.530 some people who've pulled out of the housing market but 0:07:39.530 --> 0:07:42.450 are using their cash to change over into an EV. 0:07:43.050 --> 0:07:46.050 I would not surprise me because EVs, some of the 0:07:46.050 --> 0:07:49.050 higher end ones are not cheap. But we've actually had 0:07:49.050 --> 0:07:52.090 a record number of vehicles being new, new vehicles being 0:07:52.090 --> 0:07:56.330 bought over the last three months, and half of them 0:07:56.330 --> 0:08:00.050 have been EVs. So that is telling us something that's 0:08:00.050 --> 0:08:01.450 going on in the economy as well. 0:08:01.690 --> 0:08:02.780 Okay. And you mentioned. 0:08:02.820 --> 0:08:05.660 Yetis and sasquatches just there. So I wanted to ask 0:08:05.660 --> 0:08:08.300 you about what is possibly the ultimate sort of, um, 0:08:08.340 --> 0:08:12.220 confirmation of the Yeti or the great white Sasquatch, which is, 0:08:12.220 --> 0:08:16.260 of course, watching to see if the housing bubble is 0:08:16.260 --> 0:08:18.820 finally starting to burst. Now, this is a game we've 0:08:18.820 --> 0:08:21.580 all played for, I don't know, 30 years or so. 0:08:21.940 --> 0:08:23.820 So is it finally coming to pass all of this 0:08:23.820 --> 0:08:26.740 data you've walked us through? Is it happening? Is the 0:08:26.780 --> 0:08:28.780 bubble finally starting to burst? 0:08:29.300 --> 0:08:31.740 Look, I want to I want a hair sample. I 0:08:31.740 --> 0:08:33.540 want to be able to talk to the Sasquatch first 0:08:33.540 --> 0:08:38.020 before I declare, I think Shane Oliver, the AMP chief economist, 0:08:38.020 --> 0:08:40.420 talks about the property super cycle that has been running 0:08:40.420 --> 0:08:46.540 since 1996 and since 1996 we've had, well, it's a 0:08:46.540 --> 0:08:53.220 450 500% increase, huge blowout in the sizes of mortgages 0:08:53.260 --> 0:08:56.700 like the Bureau of Stats. Data actually showed. Yep. That 0:08:56.940 --> 0:08:59.700 the size of new mortgages actually come down, came down 0:08:59.700 --> 0:09:02.939 over the last three months. Of course, the average is 0:09:02.940 --> 0:09:08.740 still $841,000 in New South Wales. Um, and so if 0:09:08.740 --> 0:09:12.900 you discount non Sydney you're looking at more than $1 million. Uh, 0:09:12.900 --> 0:09:18.300 average new sized mortgage. So whether it's finally come to 0:09:18.300 --> 0:09:21.780 an end. Look, uh, you and I will have to 0:09:22.059 --> 0:09:24.900 go out into the bush and keep looking for our 0:09:25.340 --> 0:09:28.460 our unusual animals, because, look, I'd love to say it, 0:09:28.460 --> 0:09:30.420 but I'm not sure. I'm not sure you can say 0:09:30.420 --> 0:09:31.179 it quite yet. 0:09:33.260 --> 0:09:34.220 After the break. 0:09:34.620 --> 0:09:40.179 More than 60% of people actually support lower house prices, 0:09:40.620 --> 0:09:44.260 and those who are opposed is around 10%. 0:10:01.780 --> 0:10:04.310 But there has, of course, like you've said earlier, there's 0:10:04.309 --> 0:10:08.150 been this sizable decline in investors taking out home applications. 0:10:08.150 --> 0:10:09.910 We haven't seen a rate rise in a bit. So 0:10:09.950 --> 0:10:12.830 is now the best time for a first home buyer 0:10:12.830 --> 0:10:13.910 to get into the market? 0:10:15.110 --> 0:10:19.230 Was it? Matt Coman? The head of CBA actually said ah, 0:10:20.150 --> 0:10:22.949 over the next 6 to 12 months might actually be 0:10:22.990 --> 0:10:25.829 the prime time. Of course, if that happens, you have 0:10:25.830 --> 0:10:28.430 more first home buyers coming into the market that they'll 0:10:28.429 --> 0:10:30.870 push up the price, particularly at the bottom end of 0:10:30.870 --> 0:10:34.190 the market. And so the prices may not fall as far. Um, 0:10:34.230 --> 0:10:37.990 this is you're into the whole argument about affordability. And 0:10:38.309 --> 0:10:41.110 there are some who like the political argument is very 0:10:41.110 --> 0:10:44.030 weird at the moment where all sides of politics profess. Yes, 0:10:44.030 --> 0:10:47.310 we're worried about our first home buyers, but they don't 0:10:47.309 --> 0:10:52.110 want actually say house prices have to fall. Now our 0:10:52.110 --> 0:10:54.910 resolve political monitor. I have been asking for the last 0:10:54.910 --> 0:10:58.590 three months whether people can what their feelings are towards 0:10:58.590 --> 0:11:03.319 a fall in house prices. And this has been interesting 0:11:03.320 --> 0:11:05.960 because it is it has not changed. And it's more 0:11:05.960 --> 0:11:12.120 than 60% of people actually support lower house prices. And 0:11:12.120 --> 0:11:16.240 those who are opposed is around 10%. And we've been 0:11:16.280 --> 0:11:21.480 asking this consistently, and we're getting the same answers across 0:11:21.880 --> 0:11:27.040 every sort of voter, like labor coalition One Nation. They're like, 0:11:27.080 --> 0:11:29.880 it's more than I think it's 54% of One Nation 0:11:29.880 --> 0:11:34.040 supporters say, yep, happy with house prices to fall and 16% 0:11:34.040 --> 0:11:40.400 opposed Greens. It's 68 supportive, 5% opposed. Like, I don't 0:11:40.440 --> 0:11:42.400 know how many times we can ask this question and 0:11:42.400 --> 0:11:45.520 think the answer will change. Like if we went back 0:11:45.520 --> 0:11:48.120 to the 1890s and asked Melburnians whether they want to 0:11:48.120 --> 0:11:50.440 see house prices continue to fall, they might have had 0:11:50.440 --> 0:11:55.679 a different perspective because housing had got expensive at that 0:11:55.679 --> 0:11:57.120 point of time, but it was tied up with a 0:11:57.120 --> 0:12:01.640 big speculative bubble that filtered right through the property, the 0:12:01.679 --> 0:12:04.689 financial system in Melbourne at the time. This one is 0:12:04.690 --> 0:12:07.970 a bit different in terms of. This is all about affordability. 0:12:08.170 --> 0:12:10.690 This is all about whether people have a chance of 0:12:10.690 --> 0:12:13.209 getting into a home tie in. What's going on with 0:12:13.210 --> 0:12:17.650 the rental market, of course. And like we've seen, there's 0:12:17.650 --> 0:12:22.010 been some absolute terrible reporting, not in this masthead, of course, 0:12:22.290 --> 0:12:25.929 but this commentary about rents went straight up like the 0:12:25.929 --> 0:12:29.650 week after the budget was announced because investors decided, right, 0:12:29.650 --> 0:12:32.210 I'm not going to be able to negatively gear if 0:12:32.250 --> 0:12:34.370 you've got a if you've got a landlord who's making 0:12:34.370 --> 0:12:37.970 a change on something that they were actually protected from. Well, 0:12:38.410 --> 0:12:41.410 I think take it up with the local tenancy advisory 0:12:41.410 --> 0:12:44.530 organizations at the state level because you're being sold an 0:12:44.530 --> 0:12:45.370 absolute pup. 0:12:45.730 --> 0:12:47.690 And Shane, just to wrap up, I wanted to. 0:12:47.730 --> 0:12:50.209 Ask you how you think we're going to be faring 0:12:50.210 --> 0:12:53.610 with regards to the reserve Bank inflicting another interest rate 0:12:53.610 --> 0:12:56.370 rise on us, because last week the bank held the 0:12:56.370 --> 0:12:59.850 cash rate steady for a second successive meeting. And the 0:12:59.850 --> 0:13:02.770 reserve Bank governor, Michele Bullock, she made some comments last week. 0:13:02.770 --> 0:13:04.330 So what can we read into those? 0:13:05.809 --> 0:13:08.770 Look, we could delve into the ins and outs of 0:13:08.770 --> 0:13:13.290 monetary policy and communication, which I think this is really interesting. 0:13:13.290 --> 0:13:17.170 Michelle Bullock sounded as if like, I thought she was 0:13:17.170 --> 0:13:19.570 like a newspaper holding a rolled up newspaper, talking to 0:13:19.570 --> 0:13:22.410 a dog, saying, you just wait, I'll get you. 0:13:22.530 --> 0:13:24.929 So we will need still need to see some further 0:13:24.929 --> 0:13:27.730 progress before the board can be confident that we are 0:13:27.730 --> 0:13:30.650 going to get inflation back to target. With current monetary 0:13:30.650 --> 0:13:34.610 policy settings, the board will raise interest rates further if 0:13:34.610 --> 0:13:37.010 that is what is required to bring inflation down in 0:13:37.010 --> 0:13:40.210 a timely way, the board will be closely watching for 0:13:40.210 --> 0:13:45.010 evidence of upside risks to inflation materializing. Now, I understand 0:13:45.010 --> 0:13:47.410 this is a difficult period for some households. 0:13:47.770 --> 0:13:50.809 In central banking terms. There's a there's a term for that. 0:13:50.809 --> 0:13:57.770 It's called jawboning. And Jawboning is talking really solidly, either 0:13:58.130 --> 0:14:03.540 hawkishly or dovish but not actually moving rates because. And 0:14:03.580 --> 0:14:06.459 like Michelle Bullock and lots of other central bankers, say 0:14:06.460 --> 0:14:09.500 I've only got one lever to inflict pain upon people 0:14:09.500 --> 0:14:14.100 or reduce pain. They don't Jawboning is is a very 0:14:14.100 --> 0:14:18.060 well documented way, and I've seen Australian central bankers use 0:14:18.059 --> 0:14:21.300 it as well. They've they've got their own pulpit to talk. 0:14:21.620 --> 0:14:25.300 Michelle Bullock has a whole hour after the post, the 0:14:25.300 --> 0:14:29.340 press conference to talk it up because the forecasts she 0:14:29.380 --> 0:14:33.660 released actually say no, these guys have they've done for 0:14:33.660 --> 0:14:37.900 rate rises. Start thinking about rate cuts next year. A 0:14:37.900 --> 0:14:42.980 whole host of asterisks next to those. The war gets worse. 0:14:43.460 --> 0:14:47.700 We get some other inflationary pulse. People decide to people 0:14:47.700 --> 0:14:50.700 go out and striking, get huge wage rises all sorts 0:14:50.740 --> 0:14:53.980 or the economy slows much faster than we than the 0:14:53.980 --> 0:14:58.340 bank and others anticipate. Put it this way, the bank's 0:14:58.340 --> 0:15:02.620 major last major forecasts were released first week of May, 0:15:02.860 --> 0:15:06.910 and they said inflation is going to be 4.8% by June. 0:15:07.510 --> 0:15:12.830 It was 3.8. Now, in macroeconomic terms, that's missing by 0:15:12.830 --> 0:15:15.510 the side of a barn like they missed by a 0:15:15.550 --> 0:15:19.070 long way. And there's really good reasons for that. And 0:15:19.070 --> 0:15:22.710 they missed their other key forecasts as well. So I 0:15:22.710 --> 0:15:26.830 think Bullock has used Jawboning to try and make sure 0:15:26.830 --> 0:15:31.670 people don't get ahead of themselves, knowing that she may 0:15:31.670 --> 0:15:35.790 not have to use rate rises, given that's how the 0:15:35.830 --> 0:15:37.830 bank itself thinks the economy is going to play out 0:15:37.830 --> 0:15:39.390 over the next 12 months or so. 0:15:39.710 --> 0:15:42.390 So her jawboning, that's her way of saying, just you wait, 0:15:42.390 --> 0:15:46.310 you better not go crazy on the spending. Otherwise I'm 0:15:46.350 --> 0:15:47.910 going to hit you with a rate rise. 0:15:48.110 --> 0:15:52.190 Yep. Exactly. Exactly. And look, you're living in fear immediately 0:15:52.190 --> 0:15:55.030 after hearing Michelle Bullock say that. So it might have worked. 0:15:55.230 --> 0:16:00.390 You put off that really expensive coffee, uh, last Wednesday 0:16:00.390 --> 0:16:03.150 because oh my goodness. Michelle Bullock warned me if I 0:16:03.150 --> 0:16:06.800 spend too much. So you can see like there's a 0:16:06.800 --> 0:16:11.800 lot of dealing with people's emotions because economics, it might 0:16:11.840 --> 0:16:14.760 it is called the gloomy science for a particular reason, 0:16:14.960 --> 0:16:19.640 but it does deal a lot with consumer sentiment, business sentiment, 0:16:19.640 --> 0:16:23.480 business emotion. That's that's why it's such a fascinating topic 0:16:23.480 --> 0:16:25.400 to always talk to you, Sam, about. 0:16:25.640 --> 0:16:28.040 Well, thank you so much, Shane, for your time. 0:16:28.920 --> 0:16:32.160 Look, and we've got a date to go looking for some, 0:16:32.600 --> 0:16:37.120 some maybe fictional, maybe real, uh, wild animals out there 0:16:37.160 --> 0:16:37.760 next time. 0:16:38.160 --> 0:16:38.960 Till next time, Shane. 0:16:39.240 --> 0:16:40.080 Until next time. 0:16:55.840 --> 0:16:59.440 In other news, today, first of its kind scientific modelling 0:16:59.440 --> 0:17:03.760 forecasts that more than 2.6 million Australians will be living 0:17:03.840 --> 0:17:07.859 with a cancer diagnosis by 2050, an increase of a 0:17:07.859 --> 0:17:12.680 million people over the next 25 years, and a $5 0:17:12.680 --> 0:17:15.440 million learn to Swim program will be launched today by 0:17:15.440 --> 0:17:19.680 the federal government with Royal Life Saving Australia. The We 0:17:19.720 --> 0:17:22.920 Swim program will be led by local community leaders, including 0:17:22.920 --> 0:17:27.320 those from India, China and Korea, who understand the particular 0:17:27.320 --> 0:17:30.440 risks and the culture of their own people. You can 0:17:30.440 --> 0:17:38.640 read more at the age.com.au or smh.com.au. Today's episode was 0:17:38.640 --> 0:17:42.520 produced by Kai Wong. Our executive producer is Tammy Mills, 0:17:42.520 --> 0:17:46.440 and our podcasts are overseen by Lisa Muxworthy and Tom McKendrick. 0:17:47.320 --> 0:17:50.080 If you like our show, follow The Morning Edition and 0:17:50.080 --> 0:17:53.400 leave a review for us on Apple or Spotify. Thanks 0:17:53.400 --> 0:17:54.199 for listening.