WEBVTT - Do we need a minister for men? 0:00:00.640 --> 0:00:04.160 From the newsrooms of the Sydney Morning Herald and The Age. 0:00:04.360 --> 0:00:08.920 This is the morning edition. I'm Samantha Selinger Morris. It's Wednesday, 0:00:09.119 --> 0:00:15.920 April 30th. It's never happened in Australia, but should we 0:00:15.920 --> 0:00:20.279 have a federal minister for men, Dan Repacholi. A federal 0:00:20.280 --> 0:00:24.599 labor MP who is currently campaigning for re-election says it's 0:00:24.600 --> 0:00:27.960 a no brainer. He knows how taboo it is that 0:00:27.960 --> 0:00:32.200 to promote the idea risks him being labelled anti-woman. But 0:00:32.200 --> 0:00:36.640 tragedies and struggles in his electorate and his own experience 0:00:36.640 --> 0:00:40.040 have convinced him of the need to speak out. Today, 0:00:40.080 --> 0:00:43.919 Foreign Affairs and national security correspondent Matthew Not on the 0:00:43.920 --> 0:00:47.479 movement across the globe pushing for this idea and whether 0:00:47.479 --> 0:00:53.040 it could happen in Australia. So, Matthew, just to start, 0:00:53.040 --> 0:00:56.640 can you briefly begin by telling us about labor MP 0:00:56.680 --> 0:00:59.840 Dan Repacholi? Like, who is this guy? And I guess 0:00:59.840 --> 0:01:04.110 perhaps if he is an unlikely person to openly advocate 0:01:04.310 --> 0:01:07.190 that our federal government establish a minister for men. 0:01:07.590 --> 0:01:11.710 Well, Dan Repacholi has been the minister for the Hunter 0:01:12.150 --> 0:01:15.990 since the last election, since 2020 22. 0:01:17.510 --> 0:01:21.710 Look who's back. Back again. Dan's back. Tell a friend. 0:01:21.750 --> 0:01:23.990 The federal election is coming. Would you like mine? 0:01:24.630 --> 0:01:27.710 It's a very interesting seat. It's traditionally been one of 0:01:27.709 --> 0:01:31.150 the safest labor seats in the country. This is a 0:01:31.150 --> 0:01:35.990 coal mining area. Very blue collar, heavy union presence there. 0:01:36.390 --> 0:01:40.750 But in recent elections, it's been drifting away from the party. 0:01:41.110 --> 0:01:44.470 But Dan Repacholi came in at the last election as 0:01:44.470 --> 0:01:50.430 really the ideal candidate for labor there. He was a tradesperson. 0:01:50.430 --> 0:01:55.030 He worked as a coal miner himself. He represented Australia 0:01:55.070 --> 0:01:59.910 at five Olympics as a sports shooter. So he's got 0:01:59.910 --> 0:02:04.620 that athletic track record, which is appealing in a politician, 0:02:04.620 --> 0:02:07.380 and he's held onto the seat. 0:02:07.420 --> 0:02:10.820 We say fee free TAFE. What do they say? No, 0:02:11.500 --> 0:02:14.780 we say pay rises for aged care and childcare workers. 0:02:14.780 --> 0:02:16.580 What do they say? No. 0:02:16.820 --> 0:02:19.619 He's very well known for in the press gallery in 0:02:19.620 --> 0:02:23.139 Canberra is his annual calendar he puts out. That is 0:02:23.380 --> 0:02:27.380 him eating a different hamburger from a different fast food 0:02:27.380 --> 0:02:30.460 chain in his electorate for every month of the year, 0:02:30.460 --> 0:02:34.100 and they're in high demand in December in the press gallery. 0:02:34.500 --> 0:02:37.980 So he's he's a labor backbencher. And this area, this 0:02:37.980 --> 0:02:42.940 seat has been discussed as one that could be competitive 0:02:43.100 --> 0:02:45.740 at this election. So I was very keen to go 0:02:45.740 --> 0:02:49.179 up there and spend some time with him and see 0:02:49.180 --> 0:02:52.220 what was going on in this seat. He's very passionate 0:02:52.220 --> 0:02:54.980 about hamburgers. We did eat one together. I said, if 0:02:54.980 --> 0:02:56.620 we're coming to the Hunter, we have to do it. 0:02:56.620 --> 0:02:59.500 And he was happy to have a burger. So it 0:02:59.500 --> 0:03:02.040 was a very relaxed day spent with him. 0:03:04.240 --> 0:03:06.720 Okay, so on trend or perhaps on brand, I should 0:03:06.720 --> 0:03:09.160 say for him to be chomping down on a hamburger 0:03:09.160 --> 0:03:11.520 with you. But tell me about how this discussion about 0:03:11.520 --> 0:03:14.360 having a minister for men actually came about, because I 0:03:14.360 --> 0:03:16.240 know you asked him about it. So what made you 0:03:16.240 --> 0:03:18.160 actually ask him if he thought it might be a 0:03:18.160 --> 0:03:20.760 good idea? And was he happy to then go on 0:03:20.760 --> 0:03:23.040 the record with, with his feelings that yeah, he did 0:03:23.040 --> 0:03:24.280 think it's a good idea? 0:03:24.320 --> 0:03:26.560 Yes. This was unexpected for me. When we were going 0:03:26.600 --> 0:03:28.520 to the Hunter, I was more thinking of it in 0:03:28.520 --> 0:03:33.200 terms of the environment, energy, coal mining. That's what we 0:03:33.200 --> 0:03:37.800 associate with this seat. But he was saying men, the 0:03:37.800 --> 0:03:41.080 men he encounters in his social life, but also really 0:03:41.080 --> 0:03:43.960 as an MP, the amount of people he meets are 0:03:43.960 --> 0:03:48.800 much more reluctant to talk about their health, emotional issues, 0:03:48.800 --> 0:03:51.640 also financial issues. He was talking about this, that we're 0:03:51.640 --> 0:03:54.480 all talking about cost of living in the election. But 0:03:54.480 --> 0:03:57.960 many men who are genuinely doing it very tough will 0:03:58.000 --> 0:04:01.790 often be too proud to talk about those struggles. So 0:04:01.790 --> 0:04:04.830 it was in the context of that this was coming up. 0:04:04.830 --> 0:04:08.630 And I said, oh, well, do you think we should 0:04:08.670 --> 0:04:12.030 perhaps look at the idea of having a minister for men? 0:04:12.070 --> 0:04:15.470 We have a minister for women. We also have a 0:04:15.510 --> 0:04:19.710 role which is very strongly focused on women's health as well. 0:04:20.070 --> 0:04:22.469 And just off the top of my head said, would 0:04:22.470 --> 0:04:26.190 that be something worth pursuing? And he instinctively said, yes, 0:04:26.190 --> 0:04:28.750 I think that would be great. And he started thinking 0:04:28.750 --> 0:04:33.070 about ways that this could work. But yeah, he did 0:04:33.110 --> 0:04:35.430 pause for a second to wonder whether to go on 0:04:35.430 --> 0:04:38.070 the record about it, which I think gets to there's 0:04:38.110 --> 0:04:41.390 been a bit of a taboo around this idea that 0:04:41.390 --> 0:04:46.350 to be advocating for men. Does that make you sexist? 0:04:46.350 --> 0:04:49.710 Does that make you a misogynist? Is it problematic in 0:04:49.710 --> 0:04:53.670 some way to say that men have particular issues that 0:04:53.670 --> 0:04:58.270 need addressing? Because the Minister for women position that was 0:04:58.270 --> 0:05:01.420 created in the Hawke years, you know, that's the idea 0:05:01.420 --> 0:05:07.020 that women have particular issues that need a focus. Yeah, 0:05:07.100 --> 0:05:10.260 there's there's a bit of a stigma around it and 0:05:10.740 --> 0:05:12.740 whether that should be the case. I think when you 0:05:12.740 --> 0:05:15.860 look at some of the statistics, some of the issues 0:05:15.860 --> 0:05:19.580 that are specific to men, we should probably do away 0:05:19.580 --> 0:05:22.539 with that taboo and we can have a conversation about this. 0:05:22.940 --> 0:05:25.539 And so, you know, he did say to you, you know, 0:05:25.580 --> 0:05:27.340 that there was a risk that he could be branded 0:05:27.339 --> 0:05:31.099 as anti-woman if he went ahead and sort of said, actually, yeah, 0:05:31.100 --> 0:05:33.660 I do think it's a good idea. But he did 0:05:33.660 --> 0:05:36.100 then go ahead to say, no, that's fine. I'm not 0:05:36.100 --> 0:05:37.820 going to censor myself. I'm going to I'm going to 0:05:37.820 --> 0:05:39.860 tell you all about this. So tell us, I guess, 0:05:39.860 --> 0:05:42.339 a bit about why he did want to go ahead 0:05:42.339 --> 0:05:44.339 on the record about this, you know, what does he 0:05:44.339 --> 0:05:46.020 feel about this more broadly? 0:05:46.380 --> 0:05:49.979 Yeah. We've had stories in the past where talking about 0:05:49.980 --> 0:05:52.700 things like the men's rights movement, you know, that is 0:05:52.700 --> 0:05:56.140 very problematic in many ways. And he doesn't want to 0:05:56.140 --> 0:06:00.529 be associated with that, understandably. And what he said was 0:06:00.529 --> 0:06:03.250 when he thought about it. And I saw this firsthand 0:06:03.250 --> 0:06:06.529 when the with the people he was speaking to while 0:06:06.570 --> 0:06:10.650 door knocking, we went up to give a campaign poster 0:06:10.730 --> 0:06:14.729 to a Labour supporter in his electorate in Singleton in 0:06:14.730 --> 0:06:18.050 the Hunter Valley, and she was shocked. She said, you 0:06:18.050 --> 0:06:20.370 look so great, you've lost all this weight. What's happening? 0:06:20.370 --> 0:06:22.850 And he said, oh, well, I'm actually on this new 0:06:22.850 --> 0:06:27.330 drug called Mounjaro, which is very similar to Ozempic. And 0:06:27.330 --> 0:06:30.410 he was very up front talking to her about why 0:06:30.529 --> 0:06:32.770 he went on it and how it's changed his life. 0:06:32.770 --> 0:06:36.370 And I spoke to him after about it and he said, look, 0:06:36.370 --> 0:06:38.610 I've decided to speak openly about this. I'm not going 0:06:38.650 --> 0:06:41.570 to pretend that I'm on this amazing diet or that 0:06:41.610 --> 0:06:46.090 I'm taking up so much more exercise. He's lost almost 0:06:46.089 --> 0:06:49.770 30 kilos on it already and wants to keep going. 0:06:50.050 --> 0:06:52.170 And so I think that's part of it, is that 0:06:52.170 --> 0:06:56.370 he's decided people need to speak openly about their health. 0:06:56.370 --> 0:06:59.130 Men need to speak openly about their health. He's trying 0:06:59.130 --> 0:07:03.560 to set an example doing it. And that's why he's 0:07:04.000 --> 0:07:07.520 open to this idea of having a minister for men, 0:07:07.560 --> 0:07:12.040 a minister for men's health, perhaps a special envoy for 0:07:12.520 --> 0:07:14.960 men and boys. You know, there could be different ways 0:07:14.960 --> 0:07:17.320 that it could work. We have lots of these different 0:07:17.320 --> 0:07:20.440 types of positions now. And he thought it was a 0:07:20.440 --> 0:07:22.040 good thing for people to talk about. 0:07:22.040 --> 0:07:24.400 And he also opened up, I guess, about, you know, 0:07:24.440 --> 0:07:27.160 something quite personal, I would have thought, which is, you know, 0:07:27.320 --> 0:07:30.360 his disappointment, I guess, when his diet absolutely spun out 0:07:30.360 --> 0:07:32.920 of control at a certain point in his life. So 0:07:32.920 --> 0:07:35.440 can you tell us what happened there? Because it does 0:07:35.440 --> 0:07:37.600 sound like it was a difficult experience for him. 0:07:37.640 --> 0:07:40.760 Yeah. Exactly. That that goes to the emotional issues where 0:07:40.760 --> 0:07:45.680 he was talking about that. He's competed at five Olympics 0:07:45.680 --> 0:07:50.600 before he wanted to compete again at the Paris Olympics. Now, 0:07:50.600 --> 0:07:55.080 this is extremely rare for sitting politicians to compete at 0:07:55.080 --> 0:07:57.680 the Olympics. This would have been a big deal for him, 0:07:58.040 --> 0:08:03.470 but he really narrowly missed out. Extremely, extremely close. He 0:08:03.470 --> 0:08:05.270 could have gone, but he just didn't make it. And 0:08:05.270 --> 0:08:09.430 he said that sent him into a bit of a spiral. Uh, 0:08:09.550 --> 0:08:11.910 that that he was upset by that. And he started 0:08:11.910 --> 0:08:16.110 eating a lot more than usual. He also spoke about 0:08:16.110 --> 0:08:19.190 the issues that men have with alcohol and drinking a 0:08:19.190 --> 0:08:22.870 huge amount of beer in one sitting. So he was 0:08:22.870 --> 0:08:24.550 very upfront about that. 0:08:26.550 --> 0:08:30.830 We'll be right back. Matt, I want to turn now to, 0:08:30.870 --> 0:08:33.790 I guess, the broader picture of perhaps there being a 0:08:33.790 --> 0:08:36.630 ministry for men. We are hearing about it overseas. Right. 0:08:36.630 --> 0:08:39.350 I think it's been floated in the UK. So can 0:08:39.350 --> 0:08:41.030 you tell me about that? Because it seems to have 0:08:41.030 --> 0:08:44.949 dovetailed with this show. That's massive at the moment, adolescence 0:08:44.950 --> 0:08:47.550 and this sort of larger discussion that we keep hearing 0:08:47.550 --> 0:08:50.790 about the crisis in masculinity that we're sort of seeing 0:08:50.830 --> 0:08:52.790 play out. So can you just tell me about this? 0:08:53.510 --> 0:08:56.590 Yeah, I think this conversation has been building for a 0:08:56.590 --> 0:08:59.310 few years. To start with, there has been a big 0:08:59.309 --> 0:09:03.250 conversation in the United States about this. There's a book 0:09:03.250 --> 0:09:07.530 by a scholar called Richard Reeves called Of Boys and Men. 0:09:07.530 --> 0:09:10.810 And I know that's generated a lot of discussion. He's 0:09:10.809 --> 0:09:15.170 looking at the numbers, you know, about boys education, about 0:09:15.170 --> 0:09:18.570 men's suicide rates going into the numbers and trying to 0:09:18.570 --> 0:09:22.370 say that we essentially have a crisis of masculinity and 0:09:22.370 --> 0:09:25.329 we need to address it. In the UK now, we're 0:09:25.330 --> 0:09:29.010 seeing a lot of discussion around this right now because 0:09:29.010 --> 0:09:32.610 of the Netflix show adolescence, which is going into some 0:09:32.610 --> 0:09:37.490 of these dark subcultures around incels who would call them and, 0:09:37.490 --> 0:09:41.850 and some of the the dark side of modern masculinity. 0:09:42.410 --> 0:09:46.890 80% of women are attracted to 20% of men. You 0:09:46.890 --> 0:09:48.730 must trick them because you'll never get them in a 0:09:48.730 --> 0:09:49.330 normal way. 0:09:49.730 --> 0:09:52.930 Adolescence, Nick. He should be shown in Parliament. It should 0:09:52.929 --> 0:09:55.969 be shown in schools. It should be shared more widely. 0:09:56.450 --> 0:09:59.490 We saw Anthony Albanese talk about this at a debate. 0:09:59.490 --> 0:10:03.120 He's found time to watch this on the campaign trail. 0:10:03.160 --> 0:10:07.000 I don't know if you've seen adolescents. I encourage anyone 0:10:07.000 --> 0:10:11.559 to have a look at it. It's scary. It's scary. 0:10:11.920 --> 0:10:15.600 This is something we need to have conversations about. It's 0:10:15.600 --> 0:10:20.400 something that government needs to be determined front and center. 0:10:20.679 --> 0:10:23.599 Well, and in the context of that, British Prime Minister 0:10:23.600 --> 0:10:27.080 Keir Starmer has been asked should they have a minister 0:10:27.080 --> 0:10:30.880 for men there? Now, I think going to the slightly 0:10:30.920 --> 0:10:34.199 taboo aspect of this, we're speaking about before he said no, 0:10:34.360 --> 0:10:36.760 he's not going to do that right now. He says 0:10:36.760 --> 0:10:39.720 there are big issues for boys and men, but it's 0:10:39.720 --> 0:10:42.960 more about creating good role models. He doesn't think we're 0:10:43.000 --> 0:10:45.480 at the stage yet where you need a special minister. 0:10:46.040 --> 0:10:49.720 Are we sleepwalking into a kind of crisis for masculinity here? 0:10:49.760 --> 0:10:51.839 How do you feel? Not. Not necessarily as a prime minister, 0:10:51.840 --> 0:10:52.679 but as a dad. 0:10:52.720 --> 0:10:55.680 I am worried about this. I've got a 16 year 0:10:55.720 --> 0:10:56.920 old boy and a 14 year old. 0:10:56.960 --> 0:11:00.230 And something I'd stress, though, about what Dan Repacholi was 0:11:00.230 --> 0:11:04.630 telling me was that this wouldn't be an adversarial type 0:11:04.630 --> 0:11:07.870 of position. This wouldn't be about pitting men against women. 0:11:07.870 --> 0:11:13.350 He said that he could imagine the minister working closely with, say, 0:11:13.350 --> 0:11:16.709 the Minister for Women's Health. They could do joint events together. 0:11:16.710 --> 0:11:19.429 It's not about saying one is more important than the 0:11:19.429 --> 0:11:24.309 other or diminishing the particular problems that women face, but 0:11:24.309 --> 0:11:28.350 about speaking to both constituencies. And he could imagine them 0:11:28.670 --> 0:11:31.110 being being two sides of the same coin, really. 0:11:35.870 --> 0:11:38.350 But let's get into what's actually happening. Like who is 0:11:38.350 --> 0:11:41.750 speaking to these men, you know, is it the Andrew 0:11:41.790 --> 0:11:44.390 Tates of the world? Is it is it what messages 0:11:44.390 --> 0:11:46.670 do you think they're getting more broadly that people are 0:11:46.670 --> 0:11:47.950 so concerned about? 0:11:48.390 --> 0:11:51.470 And this is what needs to be interrupted. It's something 0:11:51.470 --> 0:11:55.630 that school teachers will be very familiar with, that some 0:11:55.630 --> 0:12:00.260 of the social media content that boys and young men 0:12:00.260 --> 0:12:04.380 in particular are consuming can be really worrying people like 0:12:04.420 --> 0:12:07.660 Andrew Tate. I know school teachers have come in absolutely 0:12:07.660 --> 0:12:11.380 alarmed by how many young boys this is, where they're 0:12:11.380 --> 0:12:16.180 getting their ideas about girls and women from. And, you know, 0:12:16.460 --> 0:12:20.260 we're supposed to be moving towards a more modern, enlightened, 0:12:20.300 --> 0:12:23.939 perhaps progressive age of gender relations. And it seems that 0:12:24.140 --> 0:12:27.780 isn't happening because of some of these, some of these 0:12:27.780 --> 0:12:31.700 ideas which are about control and domination and a very 0:12:31.700 --> 0:12:34.540 disturbing and for a long time have been happening outside 0:12:34.540 --> 0:12:39.059 of the view, really, of the mainstream media, of politicians. 0:12:39.220 --> 0:12:42.819 It's young people living in their own world without much 0:12:43.300 --> 0:12:46.580 and their parents not having much access to that world. 0:12:46.580 --> 0:12:49.980 So I think that's a big discussion is about how 0:12:49.980 --> 0:12:55.700 you break up that pretty terrible feedback loop and introduce 0:12:55.700 --> 0:13:00.209 better role models, you know, people who would have been 0:13:00.210 --> 0:13:03.770 Olympians and sports people like Dan, and who can provide 0:13:03.770 --> 0:13:06.329 an alternative frame of reference. 0:13:06.690 --> 0:13:08.890 And let's just talk a little bit about, I guess, 0:13:08.929 --> 0:13:12.050 what are the outcomes at the moment for boys and men? 0:13:12.090 --> 0:13:14.690 Let's look to Australia. You know, are they suffering? I 0:13:14.730 --> 0:13:17.689 guess in a way that's perhaps under-acknowledged, because I believe 0:13:17.730 --> 0:13:19.970 they are right, at least when it comes to school 0:13:19.970 --> 0:13:22.770 outcomes and even suicide rates. So can you just tell 0:13:22.770 --> 0:13:24.170 me a little bit about this, I guess? 0:13:24.210 --> 0:13:27.130 Very much so. It's different. So we know and we 0:13:27.130 --> 0:13:30.530 do talk about the important issues that women face. We 0:13:30.530 --> 0:13:33.929 talk about the gender pay gap. We talk about the 0:13:33.970 --> 0:13:39.530 terrible issues with domestic violence. It's overwhelmingly women that face 0:13:39.770 --> 0:13:43.890 that issue. The Herald's been running stories recently about misogyny 0:13:43.890 --> 0:13:47.730 in healthcare, the way women aren't always believed. So they're specific. 0:13:47.730 --> 0:13:50.969 And I think it is acknowledged that there was there 0:13:50.970 --> 0:13:54.370 were particular gender dynamics at play there that need to 0:13:54.370 --> 0:13:57.170 be addressed. You can't speak about domestic violence as if 0:13:57.170 --> 0:14:00.070 it's happening to everyone in the same way, even though 0:14:00.350 --> 0:14:04.189 some men also face issues in that terrain. So similarly 0:14:04.190 --> 0:14:07.790 with men, I think that the big one is suicide. Uh, 0:14:08.030 --> 0:14:13.550 about three quarters of suicides each year in Australia are men, 0:14:14.070 --> 0:14:18.310 and that probably doesn't get discussed that much in terms 0:14:18.309 --> 0:14:22.190 of why men are killing themselves at rates so much 0:14:22.190 --> 0:14:26.790 higher than women and and why the numbers aren't coming down. Uh, 0:14:26.790 --> 0:14:30.590 that's a big one. Uh, educational attainment is really a 0:14:30.590 --> 0:14:35.190 turning around that, uh, more women are getting bachelor's degrees now, 0:14:35.190 --> 0:14:40.110 significantly more women than men. And that has a downstream 0:14:40.110 --> 0:14:43.150 effect throughout the economy. You know, if we're looking at 0:14:43.190 --> 0:14:49.030 men more in, uh, skilled manufacturing jobs, that can be, uh, 0:14:49.030 --> 0:14:52.750 a bit more, uh, turbulent, you know, less reliable, perhaps 0:14:52.790 --> 0:14:56.070 we're seeing that play out very much in Trump's America, 0:14:56.110 --> 0:14:58.750 leading into some of the anger that men in particular 0:14:58.750 --> 0:15:02.500 feel about the changing economy. They're vulnerable to that. 0:15:02.500 --> 0:15:05.540 And you mentioned suicide rates there and the horrific reality 0:15:05.540 --> 0:15:08.700 that so many more men in Australia are committing suicide 0:15:08.700 --> 0:15:10.740 in comparison to women. And I believe this is something 0:15:10.740 --> 0:15:14.220 that Dan Repacholi actually spoke to you about, in particular, 0:15:14.220 --> 0:15:17.180 two young men from his own electorate, both under the 0:15:17.180 --> 0:15:20.780 age of 20, who recently took their own lives. So 0:15:20.820 --> 0:15:23.740 was this something that he is sort of quite impassioned about? 0:15:23.780 --> 0:15:25.620 Yeah, he was moved by that. And when we talk 0:15:25.660 --> 0:15:28.300 about why was he willing to put his name to 0:15:28.340 --> 0:15:31.540 this idea, it was definitely examples like that that have 0:15:31.540 --> 0:15:35.740 happened pretty recently in his electorate. And the shocking thing 0:15:35.740 --> 0:15:38.900 about that is definitely also the the young ages that 0:15:38.900 --> 0:15:42.420 are happening as these young people, young boys really or 0:15:42.420 --> 0:15:47.420 extremely young men committing suicide, that's, uh, seems to be 0:15:47.860 --> 0:15:51.380 a pretty worrying new trend in this area. You know, 0:15:51.420 --> 0:15:55.780 people with so much more life left to live, um, 0:15:55.780 --> 0:15:59.140 that that's sparking this whole discussion that we're also talking 0:15:59.140 --> 0:16:02.970 about whether social media, whether to have restrictions on who 0:16:02.970 --> 0:16:07.690 can use social media, so that that definitely impacted him 0:16:07.690 --> 0:16:10.490 and helped make him decide he wanted to talk about this. 0:16:10.530 --> 0:16:12.730 I mean, just the alarming stats alone, I guess on 0:16:12.730 --> 0:16:15.930 suicide does make you wonder whether, you know, there really 0:16:15.930 --> 0:16:18.610 is a strong argument here for there being more of 0:16:18.610 --> 0:16:21.050 a focus, I guess, on mental health from the federal government. 0:16:21.370 --> 0:16:25.050 But you and I were speaking before recording that, though 0:16:25.050 --> 0:16:28.170 it does seem like Dan Repacholi is, as much as 0:16:28.170 --> 0:16:30.730 we know, the first federal MP who has really been 0:16:30.770 --> 0:16:34.610 advocating for this. We do know that another labor MP, 0:16:34.650 --> 0:16:37.770 Susan Templeman, that she forwarded a petition to the government 0:16:37.770 --> 0:16:41.130 in October last year that the government introduce a minister 0:16:41.130 --> 0:16:43.330 for men. I think this idea actually came from a 0:16:43.330 --> 0:16:45.650 member of the public, not from her. But what did 0:16:45.650 --> 0:16:48.490 the petition argue at the time, and what do we 0:16:48.490 --> 0:16:50.170 know about how the government responded? 0:16:50.210 --> 0:16:53.210 Yes, this petition was making some of the points we 0:16:53.210 --> 0:16:58.330 have here about those issues around men's health, men's suicide, 0:16:58.330 --> 0:17:04.400 men's education. It's been pretty much a rejected by the government. 0:17:04.520 --> 0:17:07.760 I asked the Prime Minister I was on the campaign 0:17:07.760 --> 0:17:11.080 trail with him when we published this piece, and I 0:17:11.119 --> 0:17:14.360 asked him about it, and he was very impressed by 0:17:14.560 --> 0:17:17.240 Dan Repacholi. He's he's a big fan of him. He 0:17:17.240 --> 0:17:20.960 was very enthused by the issues he was talking about 0:17:20.960 --> 0:17:24.159 and getting men talking more about their health like he 0:17:24.160 --> 0:17:26.840 was he was right, right onto it. But he definitely 0:17:26.840 --> 0:17:31.560 didn't commit to creating this, uh, position. I think he 0:17:31.560 --> 0:17:36.200 might be more in the Keir Starmer position, where it's 0:17:36.320 --> 0:17:39.600 a bit of a step too far right now. Uh, 0:17:39.600 --> 0:17:43.680 but who knows? Down the track, if momentum builds and 0:17:43.680 --> 0:17:47.480 more people come on board, including perhaps, uh, female politicians, 0:17:47.480 --> 0:17:49.960 if they came on board, it could be something we 0:17:49.960 --> 0:17:52.920 would see. Because, look, we have a lot of, uh, 0:17:52.960 --> 0:18:00.230 special envoys and ministers representing many different fields, uh, cybersecurity. security. Um. 0:18:00.390 --> 0:18:04.470 Veterans affairs. There's there's many positions that are important, but 0:18:04.470 --> 0:18:07.109 I would say this is a pretty important one as well. 0:18:07.150 --> 0:18:10.910 And it's not about saying that just because men have 0:18:10.910 --> 0:18:13.510 issues to address, that women have it easier. I don't 0:18:13.510 --> 0:18:15.550 think that's the case at all. And in many ways, 0:18:16.109 --> 0:18:21.149 women would be beneficiaries from trying to address male suicide, 0:18:21.350 --> 0:18:23.510 for example. That would be a great thing for them. 0:18:23.510 --> 0:18:27.470 So I think perhaps, hopefully, we're entering a time where 0:18:27.470 --> 0:18:30.670 we can speak about these issues a bit more freely 0:18:30.830 --> 0:18:34.950 without putting it in a binary of only one gender 0:18:34.950 --> 0:18:38.590 is going to do better or worse. Um, it's pretty 0:18:38.590 --> 0:18:41.950 clear that there are different issues that they face, but 0:18:41.990 --> 0:18:44.150 that are both important. 0:18:44.190 --> 0:18:46.110 And do you think it's still taboo, though? I guess 0:18:46.109 --> 0:18:49.310 just to wrap up this idea that, you know, that 0:18:49.350 --> 0:18:52.070 that boys and men are, I guess, frequently getting these 0:18:52.070 --> 0:18:55.230 messages of toxic masculinity and men are to blame for 0:18:55.230 --> 0:18:57.310 all these problems. Do you think it's still taboo, though, 0:18:57.350 --> 0:18:58.750 to sort of look at the other side of the 0:18:58.750 --> 0:19:02.260 coin and go, this might be really damaging for for 0:19:02.260 --> 0:19:03.340 some men to hear. 0:19:03.780 --> 0:19:08.340 Um, I think we're only starting to talk about it enough. Uh, 0:19:08.340 --> 0:19:11.379 and and that's the thing I think it's it's something 0:19:11.380 --> 0:19:13.020 that's going to be have to be a lot more 0:19:13.020 --> 0:19:17.980 focused on, uh, in politics, in the media. I don't 0:19:17.980 --> 0:19:20.460 think we have the option to be kind of logged 0:19:20.460 --> 0:19:23.860 out and be leaving it to young people to figure 0:19:23.859 --> 0:19:26.780 out themselves. So I think this is going to be, 0:19:26.780 --> 0:19:29.859 to be honest, one of the big issues of our time. 0:19:30.020 --> 0:19:32.140 We're coming up at the end of an election campaign 0:19:32.140 --> 0:19:36.780 that's been pretty a small target, uh, you know, cost 0:19:36.780 --> 0:19:39.340 of living. You know, these things are important. But this 0:19:39.340 --> 0:19:44.340 is one of the big swirling, swirling issues of modern life, uh, 0:19:44.340 --> 0:19:47.379 is essentially, you know, is do we face a crisis 0:19:47.380 --> 0:19:50.820 of masculinity and we're going to see more about it 0:19:50.859 --> 0:19:52.660 and we're going to have to take it more seriously. 0:19:52.700 --> 0:19:54.899 And I do have to ask you, what is it 0:19:54.900 --> 0:19:56.820 like to sort of see this coming to the fore 0:19:56.859 --> 0:19:59.399 as a man, you know, because I of course, You know, 0:19:59.440 --> 0:20:02.159 I've long been passionate about. Well, I'm passionate about all humans. But, 0:20:02.200 --> 0:20:05.640 you know, I've experienced the stuff that women experience, you know, 0:20:05.640 --> 0:20:09.680 systemic biases and all that. What's it like as a man, 0:20:09.720 --> 0:20:11.280 I guess, to sort of see this come to the 0:20:11.280 --> 0:20:14.240 fore as something that might, you know, gain respect and 0:20:14.240 --> 0:20:16.960 be less taboo to actually discuss, given that it is 0:20:17.320 --> 0:20:20.000 it's controversial, I guess, just because the focus has been 0:20:20.000 --> 0:20:22.840 on women for so long and for good reason, to 0:20:22.880 --> 0:20:25.560 address all of the imbalances against us. 0:20:25.600 --> 0:20:28.879 Yeah, I can feel some of that, of whether there's 0:20:28.880 --> 0:20:35.320 some taboo to talk about it. Um, yeah. It to, 0:20:35.359 --> 0:20:38.560 to raise it. I was I was worried whether Dan 0:20:38.560 --> 0:20:41.280 would want to go there and be willing to talk 0:20:41.280 --> 0:20:42.920 about it, but I think it was good that we 0:20:42.920 --> 0:20:46.800 had a trusting relationship. Uh, he said that he's had 0:20:47.040 --> 0:20:51.760 very good feedback to his idea, which was which was interesting. So, uh, yeah, 0:20:51.760 --> 0:20:56.199 I think it's about being more, uh, more open to it. And, uh, 0:20:56.200 --> 0:20:57.880 I'm glad we got around to doing it. 0:20:57.920 --> 0:20:59.990 Yeah, well, I was thrilled to see the article. I 0:20:59.990 --> 0:21:03.670 think it's something that should be explored further and with 0:21:03.670 --> 0:21:06.389 greater compassion. I would hope for people on all sides. 0:21:06.390 --> 0:21:08.790 So thank you so much Matt for your time. 0:21:08.830 --> 0:21:09.710 No worries at all. 0:21:15.670 --> 0:21:19.670 Today's episode was produced by Josh Towers and Julia Carcasole. 0:21:19.710 --> 0:21:23.230 Our executive producer is Tami Mills. Tom McKendrick is our 0:21:23.230 --> 0:21:26.190 head of audio. To listen to our episodes as soon 0:21:26.190 --> 0:21:29.950 as they drop, follow the Morning Edition on Apple, Spotify, 0:21:29.950 --> 0:21:33.550 or wherever you listen to podcasts. Our newsrooms are powered 0:21:33.550 --> 0:21:37.669 by subscriptions, so to support independent journalism, visit The Age 0:21:37.670 --> 0:21:42.990 or smh.com.au. Subscribe and to stay up to date. Sign 0:21:42.990 --> 0:21:45.669 up to our Morningedition newsletter to receive a summary of 0:21:45.670 --> 0:21:49.230 the day's most important news in your inbox every morning. 0:21:49.750 --> 0:21:53.350 Links are in the show. Notes. I'm Samantha Selinger. Morris. 0:21:53.510 --> 0:21:54.629 Thanks for listening.