S1: Hey, I'm Osman Farooqui and this is the drop a
S1: culture show from the Sydney Morning Herald and The Age,
S1: where we dive into the latest in the world of
S1: pop culture and entertainment. The gang's all here. I'm here
S1: with Mel Schembri and Thomas Mitchell. What's up team? How
S1: are we doing?
S2: Good.
S3: Yeah. Very good. Nice to be back. How are you
S3: down there?
S1: Oh, thank you for asking. That's very kind. I'm in.
S1: I'm in better spirits than I have been previously. I
S1: don't know if you guys have seen the news, but, um,
S1: Wayne Bennett, super coach, is back at South Sydney. We're
S1: paying him enormous amounts of money to rescue our failing clubs.
S1: So I got a spring in my step off the
S1: back of that news.
S3: Yes. I mean, he's he's about 200 years old now,
S3: but he's he's still probably the best coach, uh, in
S3: that age bracket.
S1: Yeah. I feel like these sorts of announcements are made
S1: just to reassure kind of players and fans that, look,
S1: we have a plan here. It's unclear whether or not
S1: it's a great plan, but it's just don't freak out.
S1: You know Wayne, he's very good. He works very well
S1: with this cohort of players. Just don't shit yourselves, guys,
S1: we've got this sorted. So I am I'm excited about
S1: getting slightly more reinvested in NRL this year than I
S1: have been for we.
S2: Are famously Thomas and I, the worst NRL tippers in
S2: the office. Every year we sign up for the tipping
S2: comp every year. It turns out that both of us
S2: are being pursued for our tipping funds. Yeah, and then
S2: every year both of us forget to tip and get
S2: expelled from the competition.
S3: I actually opted out this year because I couldn't deal
S3: with the stress.
S1: I also opted out this year because the wonderful Jason,
S1: who manages the tipping comp, had just increasingly threatened to
S1: kill me for not paying. You know, the tipping fees.
S2: I became afraid to come to work because I was like.
S2: And in the end, we were both like, why don't
S2: we just pay it? Something in us resisted. The more
S2: we were chased, the less we wanted to give.
S1: Also, because by the time you're in like round six
S1: and you haven't paid, you know you're not going to win.
S1: So what is the incentive to put money into the
S1: system now?
S3: At first lend a man. He's quite terrifying too. He
S3: walks around with his dragons hat. He's a Dragons fan
S3: and you know, he like he's broken legs before. I
S3: reckon he's his slack.
S1: Emoji is also like he's got a permanent slack emoji.
S1: That is just the Dragons logo is incredible guy.
S2: And he also wears a big scarf. And there's something
S2: about a big scarf on a small man, which is frightening.
S1: This is just us auditioning for our sports podcast that
S1: they won't let us have, so we smuggle it in
S1: to this one. Um, Thomas, it's good to have you back.
S1: How was your adventure to the town or place that
S1: were not allowed to say until you tell us about
S1: it in a piece you're writing for later this year?
S2: Allegedly writing?
S3: Uh, yeah. Northern territory was really good.
S4: Um.
S3: Uh, it was amazing up there. But we'll talk about
S3: that more later. But I would say, um, sadly, I
S3: noticed that in my one week absence, not a single
S3: review missing my nuance.
S1: I was going to bring this up. It is funny
S1: because when I was away earlier this year, there was
S1: some there was some, you know, reviews saying nice things
S1: that they missed me when Mel was away. There was
S1: some reviews saying nice things about people missing her. And
S1: when you were away, no one said anything?
S4: No. Firstly, I was away for one week.
S3: So be careful what you wish for. I will take
S3: an extended break and then I will set up a
S3: bunch of burner accounts like Martha from Baby Reindeer. And
S3: I will be, like, demanding the return of Thomas.
S2: And to be fair, we talked about you so much
S2: on the pod. It was almost like you were in
S2: the room with us. I did actually.
S3: I listened to the pod as well, unlike you. Um,
S3: just purely to hear my own name. Uh, and it
S3: came up a fair bit, but I was it was
S3: a great episode. Uh, obviously it missed that magical element,
S3: but now we're all back together. It's great.
S1: And, Mel, we are recording this episode slightly later than
S1: than usual. Um, part of the reason for that is
S1: you were being very busy and famous, uh, on Wednesday
S1: at the Sydney Writers Festival, which is kicked off this week.
S1: Can you tell us a bit about that and what
S1: the vibes are like this year at the Writers Fest?
S2: Famous definitely feels a bit of a stretch, but the
S2: vibes are great. This was kind of the opening day.
S2: It was at the State Library of New South Wales
S2: in this beautiful new auditorium they've got down there where
S2: the walls all kind of look like wooden books, which
S2: is very fitting. I was interviewing Lauren Groff, who, um,
S2: did wrote The Vaster Wilds, which I talked about a
S2: few a few months ago on the Pod and Matrix
S2: and Fates and Furies, which is probably her most famous one.
S2: She was great. She's very interesting. She's just opened a bookstore,
S2: and she's really campaigning against book banning. And the bookstore
S2: called The Links. It really champions banned books like it's
S2: got a whole wall of them, and it's whole project
S2: is to make sure and to react against the book
S2: banning that's going on in Florida and has obviously kind
S2: of been a topic of discussion here. So she was great.
S2: And then in the afternoon, I spoke to Susan Wyndham,
S2: former literary editor here, about her new book, which is
S2: about Shirley Hazzard and Elizabeth Harrower, and Gian Jankovic, a
S2: friend of the pod and our colleague here who has
S2: a book out called Just Friends. And Thomas actually was
S2: in the audience for that one. So if you want
S2: any kind of feedback on the session, he is your man.
S3: I do have some things to update you on. I
S3: met yeah, I met Melanie's mother.
S4: Oh, that's.
S1: A good.
S4: Development.
S3: It was amazing.
S2: I tried.
S4: It was so.
S2: Hard to avoid this.
S3: It was so funny. Was it like.
S1: Seeing a second Mel or was it like a very
S1: different experience?
S3: Well, in the most like, I guess, Schembri family esque way.
S3: Mel didn't even know her own mother was turning up.
S3: She surprised her at the Sydney Writers Festival and then
S3: she obviously Mel tried to, like, not let me know
S3: that her mum was there. As soon as she let
S3: it slip, I went over there. Um, we had an
S3: amazing chat. Uh, she loves the pod. She talked about
S3: the podcast. She also told me that I wasn't as
S3: broad as my photo in the paper, so that's something
S3: for me to unpack.
S2: We then had to unpack for a lot. Is that
S2: a good thing or a bad thing?
S4: What am I going.
S1: To have broad in the abdominal region.
S3: And I know I was like, is that a good thing?
S3: Am I gonna like, have I got a vibe with
S3: Mel's mum now I. I know. Um, well then.
S2: Mum followed up immediately after being like that. Tom was
S2: very nice. I was like, what is going on here?
S3: But yes, it was very funny. And you and you're right, Mel, like,
S3: I've been to a few Sydney writers festivals with Mel
S3: and she is like a celebrity there. She's kind of
S3: like the mayor. She's like kissing babies and shaking hands.
S3: I can see that. It's amazing. And the whole it
S3: always reminds me of, like, you know, in like 21
S3: Jump Street when they go back to high school and suddenly, like,
S3: Channing is the uncool one and Jonah Hill is the
S3: cool one. That's what it's like going to like a
S3: writers festival with Mel compared to, like, a normal event.
S2: Yeah, yeah, this is my field. Like when we go
S2: to the movies, you shine at the Writers Festival. I'm.
S2: I'm the one. Yeah.
S1: You guys. Absolutely. The mayors of those respective weird, small
S1: little culture worlds. That's very funny.
S3: Yeah, it is, it's weird, but it was great. Uh,
S3: Mel did a very good job moderating. Um, John was
S3: amazing as well. And, uh. Yeah, all in all, a
S3: fun afternoon out at the Writers Festival.
S2: And I will tell you a bit of trivia just quickly,
S2: I was speaking to Lauren Groff in the green room.
S2: And here's another way to smuggle Taylor into.
S4: Uh, yeah.
S2: Into the green room, which is just like this barren room.
S2: And they had the weirdest, like, little food. It was
S2: like arancini balls, shapes. And then some, like, pastrami. It
S2: was very odd. Is this the.
S4: Green room at.
S1: The State Library or the one at the at Carriageworks?
S1: Like the main green room.
S2: This was at the State Library.
S4: Yeah, because.
S1: Because the Carriageworks green room for the Writers Festival. I
S1: got to say, I've been lucky enough in my life
S1: to go to many Writers Festival, Green Rooms, the Carriageworks
S1: one for the Writers Festival. It's pretty top tier. There's
S1: like a barista, there's all sorts of fancy drinks, there's
S1: like fresh food, there's fruit, there's salads. I think they
S1: turned it into like a wine bar after hours. But
S1: this was not quite that level.
S2: It wasn't quite that, but it was, you know, it
S2: did the job of being a little holding room. Um,
S2: but I was chatting to Lauren Groff, and I was.
S2: She lives in Florida, and I was like, wow, how's
S2: how's Florida's rep? Since Taylor and Florence and the Machine's
S2: Florida song came out? Turns out for Florence and the
S2: machine posted on Instagram that the song was based on
S2: Lauren Groffs collection of short stories called Florida. Wow.
S4: Wow, that's actually cool. Apparently that's really cool.
S2: Yeah, and apparently they sold about 200 more copies of
S2: the short story. That's it that week. Yeah, I know,
S2: not heaps, but still whole new audience.
S4: Taylor Taylor could post it.
S1: Come on. If you're inspired by this brilliant work, why
S1: don't you share that? Taylor.
S2: Yeah, I'll credit it. That's what I reckon. But, um. Yeah,
S2: apparently she woke up and her phone was just blowing
S2: up because Florence had posted. That's great editing it. So, um. Yeah.
S2: Very interesting.
S1: We'll actually have more to say about Taylor Swift later
S1: in this episode. The main focus of today's episode is Furiosa,
S1: the latest installment in the mad Max franchise. It's a
S1: follow up to 2015 stunning Fury Road. It's the most
S1: expensive Australian film ever made. It's also one of the
S1: few remaining big ticket event releases on the cinema calendar
S1: this year, so we're going to talk about the relatively
S1: lackluster lineup for the rest of 2024, but there are
S1: a few other newsy bits and pieces in the world
S1: of culture I wanted to talk to you guys about.
S1: Probably the most interesting has been the, uh, war between
S1: Scarlett Johansson and Open Eye, the company that is probably
S1: most well known for releasing ChatGPT, the AI prompt software. Thomas,
S1: you wrote about this stoush for us this week. Can
S1: you give us a bit of a breakdown? Why is
S1: Scarlett fired up at OpenAI?
S3: Yeah, because I guess in a case of, you know,
S3: life imitating, art imitating Scarlett Johansson in the movie, her, uh,
S3: essentially a few weeks ago, OpenAI introduced the voice of Sky.
S3: So this new AI assisted tool, like a conversation tool, um,
S3: and basically the voice sounded eerily similar to Scarlett Johansson. Uh,
S3: people were very quick to pick up on this. And
S3: also the fact that she did famously star in the
S3: Spike Jonze film her, where she lent her voice to a,
S3: you know, an AI, um, starring opposite Joaquin Phoenix. So
S3: people were pretty quick to be like, this is weird.
S3: You know, Scarjo has a very, uh, like, unique and
S3: noticeable voice and, you know, to the point where people
S3: on the internet were like, this is obviously Scarlett Johansson.
S3: Even her boyfriend, Colin Jost made a joke about it
S3: on the SNL finale. Um, so it was all kind
S3: of like, okay, this is odd. On the day of
S3: release as well, the OpenAI CEO Sam Altman just tweeted
S3: one single word her, which everyone you know kind of
S3: knows is a reference to that film. So it was
S3: all kind of there. Uh, and then this week, Scarlett
S3: Johansson came out and basically released a statement saying she
S3: was shocked and angered that this had happened because they
S3: actually approached her. She considered it for a little bit,
S3: but then ultimately said, no, um, you know, and then
S3: she says in her statement, when I heard the release demo,
S3: I was shocked and angered and in disbelief that Mr.
S3: Altman would pursue a voice that sounded so eerily similar
S3: to mine that my closest friends and news outlets could
S3: not tell the difference. So yeah, very weird. Like we've
S3: had so much chat about, you know, what's happening with
S3: AI and the fact that OpenAI did approach Scarlett. She
S3: said no. And they kind of like went ahead and
S3: did it anyway. So similarly, uh, basically the way they
S3: framed it, they've paused the use of the voice, um,
S3: because she did engage legal counsel. Yeah. It's kind of
S3: like the next step in the AI debate that we've
S3: all been fearing.
S1: Yeah, it's worth pointing out that. And I say that
S1: they used another voice actress who they're not naming for
S1: privacy reasons, but the fact that like a couple of
S1: days before it was released, they went back to Scarlett
S1: and said, hey man, like, just want to let you know,
S1: we still.
S4: Really want to use your.
S1: Voice. What do you think about this? It feels like
S1: one of the main concerns around AI at the moment
S1: is what it could do to the creative industries, whether
S1: that's writing, music, film, art, whatever. And you'd think that
S1: these companies or the people behind them would be a
S1: little bit aware of what it looks like to potentially
S1: just rip off a very famous person's voice.
S2: Yeah. To me, this is so odd. Personally, like, even
S2: approaching Scarlett Johansson in the first place, when she was
S2: one of the actors that's kind of contributing huge amounts
S2: of money to end the strike stalemate and is very
S2: involved in those discussions about the role of AI. To
S2: approach her to be the voice of AI in the
S2: first place feels like an odd decision then to approach her,
S2: because potentially linking the AI voice to the film her
S2: is also maybe missing the point, because that film showed
S2: a lot of the potential dangers that can come from
S2: the role of AI in our life. That's also odd.
S2: And then again, to seek a voice that is has
S2: been called sexy, sultry, very overly feminine also is a
S2: huge misstep. Um, for a company that is trying to
S2: position itself as forward thinking. So I just feel like
S2: this is a, you know, a strange choice on top
S2: of a strange choice, on top of a strange choice.
S2: And it's a kind of worrying sign of who's at
S2: the the helm of this company.
S4: It's almost like.
S1: These tech bros are not very good at, like, very
S1: normal things.
S4: And it's like.
S3: They thought it was a really funny like wink or something.
S3: And everyone was like, you've completely cooked it.
S1: I'm glad you brought up the fact that the movie
S1: her is, is kind of not really a glowing endorsement
S1: of AI. I feel like by the end of the
S1: movie you're like, oh, this is a terrible for the
S1: potential alienation of society. Someone, someone on social media pointed
S1: out that this is now the third movie about tech
S1: or science, that Sam Altman has completely misunderstood the meaning
S1: of in 2023. Sam Altman tweeted, I was hoping that
S1: the Oppenheimer movie would inspire a generation of kids to
S1: be physicists, but it really missed the mark on that. Yeah,
S1: no shit. The movie where the guy says at the end,
S1: I think we destroyed the world is not supposed to
S1: inspire people to make nuclear bombs like that. That's the
S1: point of the movie.
S4: Sam Altman Um, yeah. At the end of the.
S2: The point was to question the role of has he.
S3: Not also, has he not seen Young Sheldon? What about
S3: a young physicist?
S4: Um, and at the.
S1: End of that tweet, he said in brackets, I think
S1: the social network managed to do this for startup founders.
S1: So basically he's saying, I think the social network did
S1: encourage people to be startup founders. And that's good. Again,
S1: definitely not the.
S4: Point of the movie. The Social Network.
S2: I love that he watched it and that's why he
S2: is now doing this. It was all because of The
S2: Social Network, though it did make me think. I started
S2: to think about films that probably shouldn't have inspired me.
S2: But then, you know that did. I was thinking about
S2: Black Swan. I was like, that makes the ballet one.
S2: I thought, that makes the ballet world look kind of
S2: like cool, which was not the point of that film.
S4: Yeah, I watched Godzilla.
S1: Godzilla x Kong, and that made me want to be
S1: a podcaster. So that's.
S4: Well, a dream.
S3: I recently saw June 2nd that made me want to
S3: kill myself. I'm not sure if you guys.
S2: Will become like a giant worm.
S3: I wish I could have buried my head in the
S3: sand for the entire we're not.
S4: Relitigating.
S1: June 2nd. It's too early.
S4: But.
S1: Um, um, one of the other things I wanted to
S1: touch on briefly with you guys is the Taylor Swift
S1: versus Billie Eilish war that's kind of been raging. The
S1: pop culture charts, pop culture discourse for the past week.
S1: You guys, you guys across this.
S2: Yeah, you couldn't see. But just so, in an attempt
S2: to let you see, I like physically, I rolled my
S2: whole body when you said verses each other, I don't
S2: know what.
S1: What is this? Your take saying that it's unfair to
S1: pit two women against each other.
S2: Well, maybe we should question the pit.
S4: Okay, I know I think I'm.
S1: Ready for this conversation because Taylor Swift is so actively
S1: doing something that I think is quite like nefarious here,
S1: that I don't think people who comment on it should
S1: be portrayed as evil people. Let's just break this down. Right?
S1: So Billie Eilish released her latest studio album, Hit Me
S1: Hard and Soft, last week on Friday. I actually really
S1: enjoyed the album. I think it's got some real fun
S1: songs on it. It's a bit too short for me.
S1: I think she was like experimenting with some fun new
S1: ideas and musical styles and then it sort of just ends.
S1: But I thought it was pretty good. Did you guys
S1: enjoy it?
S2: I loved it. I thought it was such a mature album.
S2: I found it quite shocking that she's only 22. I
S2: thought it was full of surprises and I kind of like,
S2: you know, it does have that old Billie style of
S2: the ballads and the whispers. But then I really loved
S2: like the kind of synth pop songs too, that kind
S2: of moved to the dance floor. I thought it was
S2: a really interesting record, and yeah, I've been listening to
S2: it a lot.
S3: I'll be totally honest. I was in the Northern Territory
S3: last week and I was mostly listening to Troy Cassar-daley. Yeah,
S3: they don't really do Billie Eilish up there.
S4: That's appropriate. I haven't that's appropriate. Yeah.
S1: Um, okay. Well, it's good to know that you like
S1: the album, Mel, because I did also, and I think
S1: you'll be shocked to learn what your number one fave
S1: taylorswift is doing to poor Billie. So in the lead
S1: up to the album's release, Billie talked in interviews about
S1: the tendency of artists now some artists, to release multiple
S1: physical versions of the same album on vinyl to basically
S1: juice their numbers to get their fans to buy 12 copies.
S1: In the case of the Midnights release, rather than just one,
S1: their fans loved them. They'll spend all their pocket money
S1: on it, and the album sales will go through the roof,
S1: helping get that song to the top of the Billboard charts,
S1: she said. It was unethical, and she said it was
S1: really bad for the environment, and everyone basically interpreted that
S1: as a bit of a dig at Taylor Swift, because
S1: she is the person who is the most prominently involved
S1: with this. So anyway, Billie's album comes out on Friday.
S1: On the very same day, Taylor Swift decides to release
S1: three new digital only versions of her most recent album,
S1: The Tortured Poets Department, and these include extra tracks including
S1: First Draft Phone Memos. So basically just a voice recording
S1: of Taylor singing some harmonies and choruses. Her fans obviously
S1: buy these up because they will do anything Taylor tells
S1: them to do. Tortured poets uh album has been number
S1: one for four weeks, the most obvious chance coming up
S1: for it to be knocked out of that position was
S1: Billie Eilish's Hit Me Hard and Soft. The chart numbers
S1: at the moment are a little bit too early to tell.
S1: We'll find this out next week. Suggest that Billie is
S1: probably aiming for a number two spot. Gonna get pipped
S1: by Taylor because she chose that same day to release
S1: day of Billie Eilish's album to juice the numbers again. Now,
S1: that's not me saying I'm just going to pit two
S1: random women against each other for the sake of it.
S1: That's Taylor Swift launching a salvo at Billie Eilish keeping
S1: her from the number one spot. Like, quite obviously, isn't it?
S2: Firstly, I'd like to say that I love both these
S2: women and I'm not, I don't. I, as much as
S2: he liked to identify me as Taylor's number one fan girl,
S2: I'm kind of generally just interested in her as a phenomenon.
S2: I don't identify as a swiftae personally. Um, I will
S2: say a few things to this that I.
S4: I will begin.
S2: Saying now that I will begin. It's like the terms
S2: of the debate. Um, no, I think I think there
S2: is an interesting discussion about the release of vinyl albums
S2: and multiple versions of the album, but I will note
S2: that Eilish has released nine vinyl editions of Hit Me
S2: for separate CD options, a cassette and a deluxe album
S2: that is different. So I will say that. And Eilish
S2: herself has acknowledged that she too releases multiple vinyl albums. Um,
S2: and that is, what does that have to.
S1: Do with Taylor Swift doing new releases on the day
S1: of Billy's album?
S2: Well, I think what has pitted them up against each
S2: other in your mind is the story leading up to
S2: this that Billie makes a comment about the vinyl albums.
S2: Taylor is for some reason offended by that, and then
S2: drops her vinyl albums on the same day. Like the
S2: narrative leading up to this release is that it's some
S2: kind of act against Billie, which is what I guess
S2: I'm refuting. I don't think it's an act against Billie.
S2: I think Taylor always releases vinyl albums. I would also
S2: question whether Billie did like, I think this album is
S2: going to do really well, but whether realistically she and
S2: we will find out be number one only for a
S2: number of reasons, because the album track is so small,
S2: it's got ten songs compared to what Taylor's albums have,
S2: so the chances of that album going to number one
S2: are already lower and also like if you look at
S2: a tortured poets department has sold kind of, you know, two,
S2: 2.5 million albums. I mean, that's just abroad. It's obviously
S2: album figures are hard to compute, but that's almost like
S2: half of what Billie has sold in her entire career.
S2: So I do wonder whether this story that Taylor has
S2: stopped Billie from getting to number one is really true. Like,
S2: I'm questioning, I guess, Taylor's intent, or the intent that
S2: has been attributed to her, and the reality of whether
S2: that is what's stopping Billie from getting to number one.
S1: All right, true pain over here. Taylor Swift's publicist, I, I,
S1: I don't think that that explains what happened in the
S1: past week, to be honest with you, because Taylor Swift's
S1: album moved a stack of units right in its first
S1: few weeks. We're now into week five of that album,
S1: one of the biggest pop stars in the world, probably
S1: the second biggest female pop star in the world after
S1: Taylor Swift, is Billie Eilish. She has won two Academy
S1: Awards she's won a bunch of Grammys for. Her to
S1: release an extremely anticipated album that is getting pretty good.
S1: Critical response. It would be normal for that to be
S1: considered number one, particularly when the Tortured Poets department is
S1: in its fifth week. The only reason that that would
S1: continue to be number one is if everyone had bought
S1: a whole bunch of new copies of that, which they
S1: have done, because Taylor released new copies with the extra
S1: voice memo stuff on it. I don't think it's a
S1: coincidence that she just managed to do that the week.
S1: Not even the week. The day of the Billie album release.
S4: Okay, so.
S2: Even if even if we take your point that Taylor
S2: is deliberately trying to stay at number one, is that like, what?
S2: Is there something wrong with that? I mean, why are
S2: men allowed to compete all the time or we don't
S2: make them have to, you know, we don't make them
S2: have to stand out of the way to let another
S2: man come to the top. I don't know, like this
S2: is saying, even if we take which I disagree with
S2: your imputation, that Taylor is deliberately trying to sabotage Billie
S2: or to stay ahead of her, why is she not
S2: allowed to have a competitive attitude, but.
S3: At least do it the proper way and start releasing
S3: diss tracks?
S4: I don't know why.
S3: What no, I do, I see this is very fun
S3: for me to watch. Number one, I see the point
S3: you're both making, but I do think I.
S2: Know where you're gonna fall on this. And it does
S2: not surprise me. No.
S3: But like. I would say the same thing. I think, well,
S3: we did, we did.
S1: We did do a whole episode on two men fighting
S1: each other. And so it's fine for two women to
S1: be competitive and want to, like, edge each other out.
S1: But that's kind of the point. Like you're sort of
S1: saying inside of this conversation saying, don't pit these people
S1: against each other. I'm like, oh, of Billy and Taylor
S1: are in an antagonistic relationship of a commercial album sales
S1: right now to get to number one, they're definitely allowed
S1: to do that. I think the tactics and strategy of
S1: Taylor choosing this particular moment. In terms of setting up
S1: a competition with Billy in particular, and doing it not
S1: through the actual release of tortured poets, but through this
S1: modern way of just trying to rinse your fans for
S1: more money. It feels both. It feels crass to me
S1: on a number of levels. It feels crass on the
S1: level of you're just extracting more money from your desperate
S1: fans who have this parasocial relationship with you when you're
S1: already the wealthiest and most successful artist on the planet.
S1: That's one. To me, that feels a little bit weird.
S1: And two, you're doing it at a time where you
S1: know you're stopping another young pop artist who is a
S1: generation below you from receiving the number one, which is
S1: a significant potential achievement. Both of those things, it's valid.
S1: She's allowed to do it. I'm not saying she's not
S1: allowed to do it. She should be sent to jail
S1: for doing it. But it doesn't end with her looking
S1: great in my in my view.
S3: I do kind of agree with that. Shocking. No, I
S3: do kind of agree with that though, because if it
S3: was a case of like, you know, Billy's album and
S3: Taylor's album coming out on the same day, and then
S3: it was just like, it's a it's a fair competition.
S3: But I think given we know how dominant and talented
S3: and just like the saturation levels of Taylor Swift, it
S3: does make it feel. And there is already, I guess,
S3: this like mythology around her that she is, you know,
S3: kind of suffocating the culture with her dominance, which is
S3: not her fault. But then to actively, like, release this
S3: fifth version with extra voice memos, like on the same
S3: day that Billy's releasing her new album, it's like, you
S3: know how this is all going to pan out and
S3: it just doesn't lend itself to, you know, you.
S2: Liking Taylor Swift anymore? Well, look, I think we're going
S2: to have to disagree on this one.
S1: Well, look, Taylor Swift did get another victory literally today
S1: in the Apple Music Top 100 albums of all time. Uh,
S1: this is something that Apple has been doing over ten days.
S1: They released ten albums in the countdown each day. They're
S1: saying that this is not based on like streaming numbers.
S1: It's just an editorial, subjective viewpoint based on this panel
S1: of experts and some musicians that they've got. There's kind
S1: of interesting stuff to talk about with this one, but
S1: I reckon we could start with running through the top
S1: ten countdown of of the top Apple albums of all time,
S1: starting from number ten, working our way to number one,
S1: it's Lemonade by Beyoncé, never mind by Nirvana, back to black,
S1: Amy Winehouse, Good kid, Mad City by Kendrick Lamar. Songs.
S1: In the Key of Life by Stevie Wonder. Blonde by
S1: Frank ocean. Purple rain, by Prince Abbey. Road, by The Beatles. Thriller,
S1: by Michael Jackson. Number one. The Miseducation of Lauryn Hill,
S1: by Lauryn Hill.
S3: Played dual.
S4: Um takes.
S1: On that top ten. Firstly, how how do you guys
S1: feel about it?
S3: Yeah, it's really weird. I mean, Mel and I spoke
S3: about this beforehand. These lists are designed, I guess, for
S3: conversations like this. Um, you know, they are always going
S3: to be controversial. I saw someone post that being like,
S3: was this list designed to exclusively make me angry? And
S3: the answer probably is yes. Like there is absolutely no.
S3: You know, we don't like it isn't based on any
S3: kind of data. It's just like a bunch of nameless
S3: people creating a list that then is released into, you know,
S3: the internet, and then off we go to discuss it, like,
S3: I mean, and the other hard thing is like when
S3: there is no kind of criteria, these are all great albums.
S3: You could possibly make an argument for many of them
S3: to be number one, except I don't know how blonde
S3: got on there, even though I love that album.
S1: Yeah, I want to talk about some of the some
S1: of the things about why that album from that artist
S1: as well.
S3: Yeah, yeah, it's really weird. Um, but yeah, I guess
S3: like and especially starting at the top, I suppose like
S3: Lauryn Hill, The Miseducation of Lauryn Hill, one of my
S3: favorite albums. So great, but I, I don't even know
S3: what my number one album would be, but I don't
S3: know if it would be that I.
S2: Was happy with The Miseducation of Lauryn Hill as number one,
S2: I could. I'm comfortable. I think that fits quite nicely there.
S2: I don't know the top ten. None of them were
S2: really surprising to me. I think they're all worthy places
S2: in the top ten. Could they have been in the
S2: top 20 and others have been in there? Sure, I
S2: don't know. I do take these lists, as Thomas was saying,
S2: with a with a grain of salt, because obviously they're
S2: hugely subjective and I don't know actually how useful they are.
S2: But yeah, all those albums deserve a place in top ten.
S2: So yeah, I wasn't shocked by any. Yeah, I feel.
S1: Like the list making is sort of partly let's make
S1: some people angry. And partly we just need to, like,
S1: mention every giant act from the past 70 years somewhere
S1: so people don't actually kill us. So there's got to
S1: be a Beatles record. There's got to be a Michael
S1: Jackson record. There's got to be Nirvana. Because, you know,
S1: even though that genre of music is dead, it was
S1: a big album for a bunch of people or on
S1: our platform. So it's almost feels like a little bit
S1: focus grouped now as well. Um, it was interesting doing
S1: the breakdown by genre. Hip hop was the most represented
S1: genre with 21 tracks, uh, rock, uh, then second with
S1: 18 and pop, third with 16. That's what it feels,
S1: you know, feels right in terms of what is generally considered,
S1: you know, really iconic albums. Taylor Swift, uh, she with 1989,
S1: Taylor's version was at number 18, Billie Eilish with When
S1: We All Fall Asleep, Where do We go? 30. So
S1: that's another victory for Taylor Swift over Billie this week.
S2: Oh, no. Better take it down a notch.
S3: Weird that there is no John Mayer.
S4: Um, so.
S1: Yeah, let's talk about some of the ones that stood
S1: out to me as being a little bit odd, like blonde.
S1: Fine album, but like it's better than Channel Orange. Since
S1: when did we agree that that was a thing that
S1: that that was that was a thing? Basically. I'm not
S1: crazy for thinking that, right?
S3: No. Definitely not. That was the weirdest edition to me. Um, like, yeah,
S3: I mean, good kid, m.A.A.d city. Fair enough. I don't know,
S3: it's a very strange list, but yeah, definitely Frank ocean
S3: has like, obviously he's got like, nudes of someone at
S3: Apple because he's snuck onto that list.
S2: Yeah, like I could have easily replaced him with like, rumours.
S2: Even Adele's 21 blue Joni Mitchell. I feel like there
S2: were a lot of others that could have been substituted
S2: for that. I was gonna say.
S3: The Chronic Doctor Dre in at 19, I love.
S4: The most.
S1: Um, the most egregious thing on this list, though, genuinely
S1: to me, is My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy being 26.
S1: And maybe that's like a Kanye is insane thing, but
S1: it's like, okay, we're gonna have Michael Jackson and like,
S1: various cooked artists in the top ten. What's the argument
S1: for not putting what is widely considered one of the
S1: most groundbreaking albums of history outside the top 25? Like that?
S1: That's strange to me.
S3: Did Eminem make the list?
S1: Don't believe Eminem made the list.
S2: Oh no no no, the.
S4: Marshall are true. Number 80. Yeah, there you go.
S2: Number 80.
S3: So we can cut this. But did John Mayer actually
S3: not make the list at all?
S1: John Mayer why would John May make the list?
S4: John may make the list.
S2: What did he have? One song, my body is a Wonderland.
S4: No, no.
S3: Fucking.
S2: John Mayer deserve to make the list via Taylor. And
S2: that's it.
S3: That's this.
S4: Is I mean, like.
S1: We all of us have been involved, you know, in
S1: making these kinds of lists and that kind of fun. And,
S1: you know, Mel, you did one not that long ago
S1: with all of the Kylie Minogue songs. And and it's
S1: pretty interesting and you know, that it's going to spark
S1: a debate. You know, that's part of the reason it's
S1: about people saying, I love that. I don't love that.
S1: I want that moved around. One of the things I find.
S1: Odd about lists is that they're never going to be objective, right?
S1: You've got different people with different perspectives, and there are
S1: obviously some arguments being had around like why that album? Why?
S1: Why is it 19 and not 17? I find that
S1: conversation more interesting than the end result itself. Like I'd
S1: way rather see the working out of the conversation. I
S1: don't know if Apple is going to release like videos
S1: of the producers or the. I think there's some artists
S1: like Charli XCX and Bad Bunny involved in these conversations.
S1: I'd love to watch those guys arguing and talking through like,
S1: that's interesting. Criticism isn't just a number out of ten,
S1: or isn't just a ranking on a list, but people
S1: justifying why Miseducation of Lauryn Hill deserves to be number
S1: one versus other albums. And when you just get the list,
S1: it feels a bit reductive and pointless at that point.
S2: Yeah, I agree, I think Apple and we should demand
S2: that Apple release the marking scorecards for this so that
S2: we can see how they were graded and judged and
S2: who ranked what where. That's definitely more interesting. But I
S2: do think these lists are fun, aren't they? Because they
S2: do let you kind of see your own musical education
S2: and revisit albums, discover new albums. I haven't listened to
S2: quite a few of these albums, and some I haven't
S2: listened to for some time, so I also find that
S2: they do have a value in that sense.
S3: Well, the blueprint is super high by Jay-Z, so I'm
S3: actually just going through the list officially now.
S1: Why is this the first? You're the one who wanted
S1: to talk about this, and this seems like the first
S1: time you've read the list on there.
S4: Huh?
S3: I didn't look at the full list. But anyway.
S4: Three.
S1: Members of the Knowles-carter family with four albums Beyonce and Jay-Z,
S1: that's that's pretty strong representation. It's like 4% of the list.
S2: Yeah, they're a big deal.
S3: And as far as I can tell, oh only is AC,
S3: DC the only Australian act on the list.
S1: Yeah Australia copping some ls there who the Australian do
S1: would have like to see up there.
S3: Troy Cassar-daley I mean obviously Troy Cassar-daley uh Brad Cox
S3: kid Laroi uh, no, I think like I'm kind of
S3: surprised that I thought like these types of lists especially,
S3: I would have seen like maybe Tame Impala on the
S3: list or something. Oh yeah.
S2: I can see there's a there's a case for that.
S1: All right, let's talk, Furiosa, before we get into this film.
S1: The latest installment in the mad Max franchise. Where are
S1: you guys at with mad Max? You fans of the
S1: earlier films, your fans of Fury Road. How do you
S1: feel about the post-apocalyptic world cooked up by George Miller?
S2: I am a huge mad Max fan. Um, and I
S2: have seen all of them up to the latest one,
S2: and I think it's very easy as much as I mean,
S2: I think the films are good in and of themselves,
S2: but I also think the significance of the film culturally
S2: is what's really interesting. And it's easy to forget so
S2: many decades on from the first mad Max, just how
S2: huge it was for Australian cinema at the time, because
S2: it was during that ozploitation phase of the 70s and
S2: 80s these kind of budget films with these shaky cams
S2: and mad Max cut through and it cut through globally,
S2: and it showed that Australia could do action with an
S2: Australian accent on it. And then these films have kind
S2: of been so significant globally and also for filmmaking in Australia.
S2: Pretty much all of them, apart from one has been
S2: shot in Australia. So I think their role in Australia's
S2: cinematic history and relevance globally is often kind of overlooked
S2: only because it was such a gap between the first
S2: films and then kind of Fury Road in 2015, and
S2: this one, now that you kind of forget the original
S2: origin story of where this franchise has grown from. And
S2: I mean, I think like also when it came out
S2: in the 80s, a lot of the kind of desert
S2: stories in Australian fiction and sorry, now I feel like
S2: I'm giving like a Ted talk or something.
S4: Keep going. You're cooking.
S2: In. Yeah. Well, a lot of the, you know, the
S2: films leading up, when you had films and stories about
S2: going into the desert, the desert was often this kind
S2: of unknown place. It was this real colonial lands. And
S2: then mad Max came along, and the desert is wild
S2: and barren, but it's because of what humans have done
S2: to it. It's because of what white people have done
S2: to it. They've overfarmed it. They've exploited it for oil.
S2: So I always thought that was really interesting about the
S2: films as well. And it was a very early example
S2: of like climate fiction too. And like, you know, water
S2: and drought have have always been central to these films. So, uh, yeah,
S2: for that reason, I really do like mad Max.
S4: Great. That was a very it.
S2: Was that was an that's an extensive relationship.
S1: Said great. Great explanation.
S3: Yeah. As above, I agree. I know I like my
S3: mum and dad were really into them growing up. I
S3: hadn't actually watched the original three until like maybe 4
S3: or 5 years ago, kind of maybe around the time that, um,
S3: Fury Road came out. But yeah, I've like I mean, look,
S3: as we've discussed previously and today on this pod, I'm
S3: not a big fan of like, sand related epic films,
S3: but this I will make an exception. Uh, and yeah,
S3: I mean, I thought Furiosa was amazing. We'll obviously get
S3: into it, but yeah, I've always been here for the
S3: mad Max universe. Um, and I guess, like it was
S3: really the making of Mel Gibson. He's obviously become a
S3: strange figure for like, people to process now, especially Australians.
S3: But that early era Mel Gibson like man, he was
S3: on one with some of those films and it all
S3: really started with mad Max.
S2: I love that Taylor gets demon in a mel Gibson
S2: gets strange.
S4: I mean.
S3: That's just a demon.
S4: He definitely didn't say that.
S1: Um, I went through our archives with the help of
S1: our wonderful library staff here at the Herald, and asked
S1: them to dig up, like, our coverage of mad Max
S1: when it was first released. And interestingly, the first reference
S1: is in 77. So a couple of years before the
S1: movie came out, and it's like this doctor from Queensland,
S1: George Miller, has managed to get together $350,000 to make this,
S1: you know, weird apocalyptic movie that's about cars. And then
S1: a few months after that, it's like two nighter graduates
S1: cast in their first film, Mel Gibson and Steve Bisley.
S1: They're ready to give real acting a go. It's so
S1: odd to think that is the genesis of what became
S1: the biggest Australian film franchise in history. And funnily enough,
S1: I also looked up our first review of mad Max
S1: in the Sydney Morning Herald. It was not good.
S4: Um, did Mel Ryder.
S1: The reviewer? Uh meled. Dubois, who wrote, reviewed a lot
S1: of movies for the Herald I think in the 70s,
S1: said the movie was brutal but lacked social value. She
S1: was not into, I guess, some of the violence, and
S1: I have to say, I don't know when the last
S1: time you watched, like the first mad Max was, but
S1: I rewatched it in anticipation for Furiosa. It is way
S1: more depraved and violent than I remember, like a brilliant movie.
S1: But there is some very, very intense stuff, and I think,
S1: you know, it's in service of the plot. It's not
S1: just there for the sake of it, but it's kind
S1: of crazy to think that this, you know, this, this
S1: kind of Australian exploitation movie, as you said, Mel, influenced
S1: by George Miller's work as a doctor in Queensland treating
S1: car crash victims, became this huge franchise and what is
S1: now the most expensive Australian film ever. It's such a
S1: fascinating journey from that film to where we are now.
S2: Yeah, totally. And like the aesthetics are so completely different.
S2: As you said, it's such a dark, kind of austere
S2: film in a way. Real revenge narrative. After his family
S2: is killed to the kind of hyper saturation that Fury
S2: Road and Furiosa are known for. It has been a
S2: really interesting journey, but I think that's also part of
S2: why I like it. Like, you know, even the shift
S2: towards different gender roles in the characters, with Furiosa essentially
S2: replacing mad Max, which I'm sure we'll talk about. Is
S2: is an interesting like how that franchise is adapting and
S2: reflecting what George Miller.
S4: Mad Max has gone.
S1: Woke is what you're saying.
S4: Yeah.
S2: I don't think that's quite what I'm saying. But yeah,
S2: I do think that I actually think, to be fair,
S2: they have done those changes in a good way, like
S2: in an interesting way. Like I actually don't think it
S2: comes across as overly woke.
S4: Do you know? Sorry, I didn't mean to. I think
S4: it's just more.
S1: And we'll talk about this when we get into furious.
S1: I think he's yeah. More explicit engagement with very contemporary
S1: political themes is much more noticeable in the last couple
S1: of films. His his filmography is crazy. He makes the
S1: three mad Max films, then he goes on a detour
S1: with like Babe and Babe, Pig in the city, Happy
S1: Feet one and Happy Feet two, and he's like, you
S1: know what I'm doing Fury Road, man, we got we
S1: got to.
S4: Go back to mad.
S1: Max. It is such a strange, um, strange journey for
S1: a director who started in Oz exploitation land. Mel, you
S1: unfortunately weren't able to see Furiosa this week. You were unwell. Um, so.
S1: So Thomas and I will probably, uh, do most of
S1: the chatting in this one, but but, you know, jump
S1: in at any moment with your thoughts or questions. All right.
S1: So Furiosa, prequel to Fury Road, starring Anya Taylor-Joy as
S1: a younger version of the character played by Charlize Theron
S1: in Fury Road, and Chris Hemsworth as her key antagonist.
S1: He's a kind of nomadic warlord called Dementors. The movie
S1: opens with a young Furiosa played in the first section
S1: of the film, actually by a young Australian actress, uh,
S1: Leila Brown. Uh, being snatched from the Green Place is
S1: kind of idyllic Paradise in this otherwise post-apocalyptic hellscape by
S1: a group of bikers who take her to Hemsworth's Dementors.
S1: She tries unsuccessfully to escape before being traded to Immortan Joe,
S1: who rules over the Citadel, which is the key location
S1: for most of the action in Fury Road took place.
S1: She eventually does escape. She blends into the world of
S1: the Citadel. She plots her eventual escape back to the
S1: Green Place and revenge on Dementors. Uh, in this movie,
S1: there's significantly more world building than we got in Fury Road,
S1: which was kind of just like a straightforward road movie
S1: and a chase film. Other than The Citadel, we got
S1: hints of this broader world in this, in this landscape,
S1: but we didn't see them. But in Furiosa, places like
S1: Gas Town and The Bullet Farm, which were alluded to,
S1: I kind of fully realized, and the action takes place
S1: in and around a kind of universe that is more
S1: fleshed out. I think there's also a really interesting stretch
S1: of the film where Furiosa teams up with a very
S1: mad Max like character. Uh, this guy called Praetorian Jack,
S1: played by Tom Burke. I really enjoyed that element of
S1: it as well. It's kind of like we've got a
S1: story that is very different. It's about a different character,
S1: but we know that people also want to see a
S1: guy in a leather jacket driving cars around. So let's
S1: include him in this too. I think the biggest challenge
S1: the film faced is the obvious comparison to Fury Road.
S1: Largely considered widely considered to be one of the best
S1: action films of this century. I think when you get
S1: over that and you realize that, yes, this movie is
S1: obviously a prequel, it's set in the same universe. It's
S1: not trying to tell the same kind of story. It's
S1: trying to do something a little bit different and and
S1: something with a bit more scope, more history, I think
S1: some more broader political scope as well. Like, I think
S1: Fury Road focused on feminism and environmental destruction here. There's
S1: a lot of that. There's also a lot of talk
S1: about humanity's just inability to stop going to war with
S1: one another, and the damage that is doing on both
S1: a personal and community level. And I think there's some
S1: playing around with, like, interesting ideas around class as well.
S1: I watch this movie in Imax. It looked and sounded
S1: awesome for me. The real highlight is Chris Hemsworth as Dementors.
S1: He's brilliant. He's having a lot of fun. He's bringing
S1: this kind of Shakespearean lunatic presence to the stage. I
S1: think he kind of outshined Anya in a lot of scenes,
S1: but I think she did a really great job as well,
S1: channeling that kind of quiet fury that Charlize, uh, really,
S1: really displayed in Fury Road. I had an awesome time
S1: with this movie overall. Thomas, what did you think?
S3: Yeah, I really liked it. Um, I agree that I,
S3: we actually having this conversation not too long ago where
S3: it was like, Is Chris Hemsworth a good actor? Like,
S3: we all know, he's really famous and like jacked and
S3: he's in Marvel movies and stuff, but like, has he
S3: ever done anything where you're like, wow, that was like
S3: Chris Hemsworth, like kind of owned that. And this I
S3: think is that movie, um, kind of from the first
S3: time you meet Dementors, it's like, wow, he's got, you know,
S3: kind of some prosthetics. They've made him like, it still
S3: looks like Chris Hemsworth in prosthetics, but he looks a
S3: bit weird. And pretty quickly I was like, okay, like,
S3: he's going for this. Almost like Jack Sparrow meets like,
S3: Heath ledger as the Joker. He's kind of like, almost
S3: a bit camp. And he the way he speaks is
S3: really interesting. I don't know, the whole thing. I was like, okay,
S3: I'm here for this. And I did think he kind
S3: of stole the movie. Um, yeah. Like visually it was
S3: like I also saw it in Imax. I almost think
S3: you're doing yourself a disservice if you don't see this
S3: in Imax. Um, and like even the way the movie sounds,
S3: everything about it was like, it's such a movie going experience.
S3: And it was funny, like looking in it was like
S3: Imax was packed. And you could see people, like, actively
S3: like sitting back in their chairs as if they were being, like,
S3: forced back by the actual, like, weight of the film. Um, yeah.
S3: It was it was incredible. It did definitely feel like,
S3: as you said, I feel like Fury Road is widely
S3: accepted now as this like, wow, that is, you know,
S3: the kind of benchmark for a modern action film. And
S3: this felt a little bit more like drifting into the
S3: Marvel territory of, like, are we being set up for
S3: the mad Max universe completely now? Because we did, you know,
S3: see a lot more of the wasteland universe? And will
S3: there be like, like, will it be another eight years
S3: before we get another mad Max, or will it be
S3: like two or something like, Will we.
S1: Get, you know, the mad Max TV show spin offs,
S1: exploring certain characters? I think that's potentially something that could
S1: happen here.
S3: Yeah, it does feel a little bit like that. Or
S3: maybe George Miller, like, hands the IP over to someone
S3: else and they do make a, you know, ten part
S3: Disney show out of it or whatever. And then I did,
S3: even though I like enjoyed the film, I walked away
S3: thinking like, oh, it does feel perhaps like Hollywood has
S3: kind of got its claws in the mad Max franchise
S3: now and are we going to get like an Immortan
S3: Joe ten parter? Or, you know, like, are we going
S3: to start to see it diluted and broken down and
S3: like basically sold off for parts?
S1: Yeah, I mean, George Miller is 79 now. People said
S1: that when Fury Road came out, it was that was
S1: going to be the last one. I think it's amazing
S1: that he's come back with this one and it is
S1: as good as it is. But, you know, the IP
S1: of the film, I think it's owned by Warner Brothers,
S1: or at least Warner Brothers is the company behind this.
S1: Warner Brothers is now a part of Warner Brothers Discovery,
S1: which owns HBO and all these sorts of things. And
S1: you're seeing this happen with Dune, right? Well, we've got
S1: the Dune films, and simultaneously to the Dune films, we've
S1: got the Dune TV series trailer dropped for Dune Prophecy,
S1: which is about the history of the Bene Gesserit. You know,
S1: the kind of nuns in that I feel like. And
S1: I don't begrudge George for this at this stage of
S1: his life, his career. If he's just like, give me
S1: $1 billion, I will retire happy. My family will never
S1: have to work again. And you can make whatever mad
S1: Max films or shows you want. I don't really begrudge
S1: him for that. I don't think the movie is like
S1: the movie isn't bad because of the world building he's done.
S1: It kind of all works. But your spot on, Thomas,
S1: you can see. Cool. Let's get the history of the
S1: Green Place. Let's get a drama set in. What's going
S1: on in Bullet Town? Mad Max has always done that
S1: in a really interesting way, where, you know, through in
S1: Fury Road, there were those guys on stilts just kind
S1: of walking in the wasteland in this sort of marsh,
S1: and it's never explained. And there's been stuff like that
S1: throughout the franchise's history. You don't have this overriding, this dialogue,
S1: this exposition, you just kind of thrown into it. This
S1: one had a bit more of that. Even at the
S1: start of this film. You have this montage of news
S1: clips that allude to how we ended up in this
S1: apocalyptic hell space. Things like pandemic, nuclear war, environmental destruction.
S1: It felt a little bit more like George linking very
S1: current things going on to what's happened. I think, Mel,
S1: you mentioned that the first mad Max films always had
S1: a little bit of that going on, but it was
S1: never laid out for us explicitly. Manohla Dargis in The
S1: New York Times review of this film made the point that,
S1: you know, we never really talked about George Miller being
S1: a prophet, but as like, time has gone on and
S1: the world is edged closer to the kinds of battles
S1: over resources that he first talked about in the 70s
S1: and this movie kind of shrinking that gap between reality
S1: and fiction even more. It has become like a more
S1: prophetic franchise.
S2: And did you feel that that kind of world building
S2: slowed it down? Because definitely the original two, and the
S2: third one is a bit of an interesting outlier of
S2: a film, but the first two and even Fury Road
S2: are quite simple stories of revenge, like it's a very
S2: clear pattern, almost like a fable, which then, you know,
S2: allows him to do spectacular stuff elsewhere. But did you
S2: feel that it slowed it down, that they were developing
S2: too much of the world?
S4: It's a really.
S2: Attracted.
S1: It's a really interesting question. I enjoyed a lot of it,
S1: and there is a lot of great action set pieces,
S1: but at certain points I was wondering, and I don't
S1: often feel this about movies. I was like, just give
S1: me more crazy scenes of them on the road doing
S1: crazy stuff, like there's a bit where they get to
S1: this big conflict and instead of showing it, it's just
S1: like a narration and a montage. And I'm like, what?
S1: This what these movies do so well, particularly since Fury
S1: Road are stunts that you're just like, they take your
S1: breath away. You know, my guy Steven Soderbergh has that
S1: famous quote about Fury Road. He's like, every time I
S1: watch it, I don't understand how there aren't, like, dead
S1: bodies here on the set and some of the set pieces.
S1: I mean, most of them are astonishing. There's one in
S1: particular which is like the big iconic war rig scene
S1: from Fury Road, and they take it to another level
S1: and I'm like, that is amazing. And it's interesting that
S1: when the trailer for this film came out, I wasn't
S1: particularly excited. A lot of people seemed to react a
S1: bit negatively because it looked very CGI focused, not a
S1: lot of practical effects, and the CGI didn't look great.
S1: Sometimes we forget that trailers are released before all the
S1: work has been done on the visual effects. This looked
S1: really good, like it felt very practical. I. And think
S1: the CGI looked bad. What did you think about that, Thomas?
S3: Yeah, no, I think like it didn't didn't really bother
S3: me at all. And I just think the scope of
S3: some of those set pieces is, like, so amazing. And like,
S3: you know, we spoke earlier before about how the rest
S3: of them have kind of been filmed in Australia. Mad
S3: Max Fury Road was like a lot in Namibia, but
S3: it was so nice to be. It was so obviously
S3: Australia again, having just recently returned from the Northern Territory
S3: for undisclosed reasons. But like, you know, like that, that
S3: sense of the, you know, when you do get into
S3: those parts of Australia that feel like so barren and
S3: you're the only person in the world like it's nice
S3: to see that back on screen. And I just thought
S3: it looked incredible. It's been funny, you know, like the
S3: last week, I think George Miller has done a sit down.
S3: And he spoke again about the strange relationship between Tom
S3: Hardy and Charlize Theron on Fury Road. And then inevitably, like,
S3: you know, it comes up as this movie comes out.
S3: But I thought the actual chemistry between Chris Hemsworth and
S3: Anya Taylor-Joy, they have some really intense scenes towards the end.
S3: And just like from a physical standpoint, like he is
S3: so imposing and she is quite like a little person. She's,
S3: you know, she's like slender and but like, they feel
S3: like such a great match. And again, you know, like
S3: these are not dialogue heavy films, although Chris Hemsworth does
S3: have some long speeches. But I reckon Anya Taylor-Joy, like,
S3: as Furiosa says, like, I don't know, 40 words in
S3: the whole film. Yeah, not a lot.
S1: And it's a hard role because Charlize played that so well,
S1: and I've not historically been like, I've never really gotten
S1: the Anya Taylor-Joy thing. I didn't love Queen's Gambit. I
S1: think she did The Northman. She's pretty cool, but I
S1: was really impressed with her. And this I think there
S1: is like that, you know, it's a bad pun, but
S1: a quiet fury of rage, like what her motivations are,
S1: how she feels within each scene, what her what her
S1: goal is like, what the kind of struggles that she
S1: has about trying to make peace with where she's at
S1: whilst not losing sight of where she came from. She
S1: really does that very well through her face and her
S1: acting more so than through dialogue. So I thought she
S1: was wonderful in this film, and it.
S2: Is interesting that she's going for these kind of quite
S2: big epic films. She was flagged at the end of June,
S2: and there's a lot of rumors that she will kind
S2: of be a main character in Dune Part three. She's
S2: got a quite interesting career trajectory, and at this point,
S2: she's kind of seems to be moving away from character
S2: roles and doing a lot more of these huge franchise acting, um,
S2: huge franchise action roles.
S3: Do you think like this? I know that Fury Road,
S3: you know, obviously it was like made over 400 million
S3: at the box office. It was nominated for like eight
S3: Academy Awards. Um, it's like swept the technical categories. No
S3: acting awards. Do you suspect? Obviously. Well, you haven't seen it,
S3: but do you suspect that it will be similar this
S3: time around? Do you think Chris could get a nom?
S1: I think there's a there's a chance Chris gets a nod.
S1: I might depend on what category he's in. He's he's
S1: probably a bit too much for Best Supporting Actor. And
S1: it's probably not a good enough or big enough performance
S1: or kind of Oscar worthy performance for best actor. But yeah, I,
S1: I think this will do very well in the technical categories.
S1: It'd be awesome if Chris got some sort of acknowledgement,
S1: because I think he's really trying and he's showing off
S1: the acting that he can do, and it's such a
S1: reversal of the Marvel stuff where he's the good guy
S1: in this. He's playing the bad guy. His character's name
S1: is literally Dementors, you know? I mean, the character names
S1: in this movie. Thomas, you mentioned the Australian landscape. The
S1: sheer australianness of these movies is I love them. Like
S1: every Australian, that guy actor like pops up in these movies.
S1: Some of the names he gave Immortan Joe, he got
S1: Praetorian Jack.
S4: It's just.
S1: Ridiculous. My personal favorite is, uh, So Lucky, whom plays
S1: two characters. He plays Immortan Joe, and he plays this
S1: one eyed sort of consiglieri to, uh, Dementors. This character's
S1: name is Ridsdale Pell, right. George Ridsdale, one of the
S1: most notorious pedophile priests in Ballarat. And George Pell.
S4: What is George Miller doing? That's that's so weird.
S3: I did not I did not know that that is. Yeah, right.
S3: That's layered that's a layered drive by from George. And there.
S4: Is some, you.
S1: Know, pedophile stuff in this film. So that's just coming
S1: out of nowhere. But you know, there are some pretty
S1: like dark characters and dark moments in this film.
S2: Wow. And fun fact that I was reading that, um,
S2: apparently Bathurst where they were filming around was too green.
S2: So like in post-production they had to remove all the
S2: greenery to make it have that arid look, which I
S2: thought was kind of interesting, but also the case for
S2: Australian government supporting filmmaking here, because it was because of
S2: the rebates and incentives that they kept it in Australia, really,
S2: versus 2015 when those rebates weren't here and they took
S2: Fury Road elsewhere.
S1: But one of the good things about Fury Road being
S1: in Namibia is that Mel Gibson didn't want to go there.
S1: There's like some quotes from him and his wife sort
S1: of not really wanting to be in Africa, you know,
S1: make of that what you will. Um, and I do
S1: think that movie is better without like contemporary Mel Gibson
S1: in there.
S2: So yeah, I'm that's a that was a great decision
S2: on behalf of everyone.
S4: I wonder I wonder if Miller was like.
S1: How do I get rid of Mel from this franchise.
S3: Given that the first set of films was a trilogy,
S3: we're now on two of the newest Mad Max's, but
S3: Happy Feet and Babe are both. Also arrested on two.
S3: What does George Miller do next? Are we going to
S3: see babe three Pig Piggy Road, or are we going
S3: to see some kind of happy feet? I would love
S3: to see another babe get James Cromwell Magda Szubanski back together.
S3: It's like this. I mean, there's so much to do there.
S4: Give us.
S1: The babe. Expanded universe. I think he's like, he's nearly 80.
S1: I don't know if he's going to make another movie.
S3: He'll probably end up coaching South.
S4: Yeah, I wouldn't mind.
S2: Him seeing taking like, another animal franchise. And like, what
S2: if he did like, a Winnie the Pooh or something? Like,
S2: I wouldn't mind another animal franchise.
S4: Well, that IP is up.
S3: For the taking, aren't they? They're making it. It is.
S4: Winnie the Pooh is out of copyright.
S1: Um, one of the conversations around films in 2024 has
S1: been that they're not performing at the box office as
S1: well as anticipated. The fall guy did okay, but, you know,
S1: didn't do amazingly. There's not a lot of big tentpole releases,
S1: big event movies on the calendar. This is one. After this,
S1: it's the new Marvel one. Deadpool versus Wolverine. There's the
S1: Joker sequel. There's not much else, I think. I mean,
S1: I think this could do very well. It's being released
S1: in Imax around the world. You know that that costs
S1: a bit more. It's good for box office results. It's
S1: a pretty bare like cinema listings at the moment. I
S1: don't know if you guys have looked at what's on,
S1: but people messaged me. They're like, you know what, what
S1: do I see? I'm like, there's not it's not a
S1: heap on there's actually a pretty great film. It's a
S1: bit violent. We're not a family friendly movie, but I
S1: wonder whether this could break the drought and do do
S1: quite well. Maybe get to that four, $500 million mark
S1: at the box office.
S3: Yeah, it wouldn't surprise me. I mean, it is funny
S3: that like, I read read that kind of similar articles
S3: about fall guy, like not really doing what it was
S3: supposed to do. And, you know, like there was such a,
S3: I guess, a thought from the studio of like, we'll
S3: pluck Ryan Gosling from the biggest film of last year
S3: and Emily Blunt from the other biggest film of last
S3: year and put them together. And we can't lose in this,
S3: you know, with like kind of semi existing IP and
S3: you know, it'll be funny and look amazing. And then
S3: it did okay. But it didn't like Set the World
S3: on fire. The fall guy. And then yeah it is
S3: it is strange looking at the rest of the year.
S3: Like I think Deadpool versus Wolverine will be fucking enormous.
S3: Like I reckon that will go bonkers. Um, everyone loves,
S3: you know, the Deadpool character. Then we're bringing back in,
S3: you know, Wolverine and the popularity of Hugh Jackman. I
S3: reckon that'll go crazy. But the rest of the year
S3: is kind of like, you know, lacking in things to
S3: look forward to in terms of, like, big box office hits.
S3: So yeah, I suspect that mad Max will do really well.
S3: And we've already seen like, you know, what did Dune
S3: two do, like crazy numbers.
S1: 800 million or so. Maybe got close to a billion.
S1: I mean, it it's interesting. The Australian Australia is punching
S1: above its weight when it comes to bringing in box
S1: office results this year. Anyone but you big hit into the, uh,
S1: start of this year. Filmed in Sydney. The fall guy
S1: you know didn't do enormously still is making quite a
S1: lot of money. Filmed in Australia. Mad Max Furiosa filmed
S1: in Australia. Largely Australian cast and director. Deadpool versus Wolverine. Wolverine.
S1: He's Australian. Australia. What? Like that's cool.
S3: Yeah, Australians are cool. I've been saying it for ages.
S4: Yeah.
S2: Yeah that's great. It's our it's our year and hopefully
S2: it'll be a showing at the uh at some of
S2: the awards ceremonies too.
S3: That being said, one of my other I mean, I
S3: know we're about to get on to this, but one
S3: of my other most anticipated films of the year is
S3: also shot in Australia. Uh, and that is Nicolas Cage.
S2: Ah. The surfer.
S4: Yeah. So I wanted I wanted to.
S1: Talk to you guys a bit about, uh, a bit
S1: about Khan, which has been happening over the last week,
S1: and this has been a particularly interesting one to watch
S1: because of the fact that the big studio films, you know,
S1: like we've said, there's not there's not a heap to
S1: get excited about. So what is playing at Khan and
S1: what is reacting? Getting good reactions and uh, being highly
S1: anticipated could give us a slightly more fleshed out, you know,
S1: second half of the year of these films get picked
S1: up and distributed in Australia. One of those that got
S1: a really great reception was the Surfer, the Nick cage
S1: film Thomas.
S3: Yeah. So that's like was shot up in WA. I think, uh,
S3: Nicolas Cage plays, I think he's like on the run
S3: or something and he plays and then he kind of
S3: gets into surf, falls in with a surf gang. It
S3: feels like kind of an exploitation, like B movie vibe. Um,
S3: like I did want to say before we get into this, like,
S3: do we think at this point the standing ovation thing
S3: at Cannes is getting like, ridiculous?
S1: It is. It's now become like a complete joke, right?
S1: Where for people who don't know, different media outlets are
S1: now recording the length of standing ovations, different films get.
S1: Some of them are seven minutes, some of them are
S1: 11 minutes, some of them 17 minutes. It's always been
S1: like a very Khan specific thing, and I think now
S1: it's become a bit of a joke. People are making
S1: kind of memes about it, you know? Hans Moleman man
S1: gets hit in the head by football. 17 minutes standing ovation.
S1: I can't like it's funny stuff. It seems completely ridiculous
S1: because it often has nothing to do with the quality
S1: of the film. It's just this director's back. Let's just
S1: stand up and clap. Honestly, I could not imagine anything
S1: worse than being forced to clap for like seven minutes,
S1: let alone 17.
S2: I can imagine being the person who has to receive the.
S4: Clapping for.
S2: That long. Like, what do you do? I hate when
S2: I would be.
S4: Fine with that. Honestly, I.
S5: Hate when people sing.
S2: Happy Birthday for 30s. What do you do for seven
S2: minutes of like I just every time I see the
S2: footage of people having to like, smile and say thank
S2: you for seven, 13, 15 minutes, I just internally shrivel
S2: up and die.
S3: A few years ago, Adam Driver got one for. And
S3: I mean, it can't have been for that weird Italian movie.
S3: But anyway, he got one one. It was like the
S3: sixth minute and he lit up a cigarette and.
S4: Just started smoking it. Well, that's boss, which I think.
S3: Is kind of great, but like, yeah, you know, like
S3: there's this weird new, like, not Yellowstone movie by Kevin
S3: Costner and that got like a 12 minute standing ovation, like,
S3: are you fucking kidding me? Like two minutes is a
S3: long time. I don't know, I just find that whole
S3: thing weird. And then it does become this. Like, it's
S3: almost like a calling card, like, oh, they got a,
S3: you know, ten minute standing ovation. It must be amazing.
S2: It's like the new star ranking.
S3: Yeah, exactly. So that that is very weird. But yeah,
S3: Nicolas Cage, as we all know, we know and love
S3: Nicolas Cage. He's got this. Probably the strangest IMDb besides
S3: George Miller, I suppose. Um, he does like horror movies,
S3: amazing movies, Oscar movies, insane movies, B movies, action movies. Uh,
S3: and it sounds like the surfer might tick a lot
S3: of those boxes. So, yeah, I'm very excited about that one.
S1: Um, the other you mentioned Kevin Costner in the horizon film.
S1: I'm sort of excited by that. Like, I like Yellowstone
S1: and this is Kevin Costner kind of ditching Yellowstone and
S1: putting all of his money into, uh, you know, horizon,
S1: Udorn and American sort of Western frontier film. Apparently it's
S1: not great. It just basically looks like a TV show,
S1: and he's doing part one, and then he's doing six
S1: weeks later in cinemas, part two. That's kind of wacky,
S1: but I guess I applaud lunatic people in the film
S1: industry putting all their money into their passion projects. Which
S1: brings me to what looks like one of the craziest
S1: films ever made. And we've talked about this, uh, earlier
S1: in the year when we were previewing upcoming, upcoming, when
S1: we were previewing upcoming movies, Francis Ford Coppola's Megalopolis, starring
S1: Adam Driver. Uh, this is crazy. I mean, the reviews
S1: on this one are just wacky. Some people are convinced it's,
S1: you know, brilliant or tourist cinema at its best. Other
S1: people say it's a total mess. It makes no sense.
S1: It has now just received an Australian distributor in Mad Men,
S1: so it will be coming to Australian cinemas hopefully later
S1: this year. I'm very excited to watch it. Like I'm
S1: famously one of the three people in the world that
S1: thought Babylon, Damien Chazelle's very messy, strange movie about Hollywood,
S1: was great. I like Coppola, I feel like even if
S1: it's a bit of a weird movie again, I back
S1: the fact that he sold off his entire, like estate
S1: to make this film, which seems to be a statement
S1: on the death and decay of American Empire. Like, you know,
S1: he's a great artist making a crazy movie about ideas
S1: he cares about. Let's watch.
S4: It.
S2: Yes, I'm very excited for this film, whether or not
S2: it was filmed in Australia. Uh, yeah. Just that he
S2: has staked so much on it and that he sees
S2: it as the kind of epitome of his career and
S2: how it's going to throw all his other films in
S2: a different light. I can't wait.
S1: For the other film that made some headlines this week, uh,
S1: The Apprentice, Ali Abbas Iranian director's new film about Donald Trump, uh,
S1: starring Sebastian Stan as Donald Trump and starring Jeremy Strong as, uh,
S1: Trump's lawyer during this era. It's it's pretty interesting. It's
S1: got some controversy for a seemingly quite explicit scene of
S1: sexual assault that, uh, you know, Trump allegedly perpetrates based
S1: on some divorce documents, I think, with with his ex-wife.
S1: That was sort of the main story coming out of Cannes.
S1: I mean, we loved Jeremy Strong. Sebastian Stan certainly looks
S1: a lot like Donald Trump. I'm pretty interested in this one.
S2: Yeah, I'm kind of keen to check in on Jeremy Strong,
S2: to see that he's back on his feet into a
S2: new character. Yeah, I miss Jeremy from our screens.
S3: Yeah, I'm very excited for this one. Um, and we've
S3: already seen Trump tweeting madly about it. Uh, rubbish movie garbage. Uh,
S3: probably hasn't seen it, but yeah, it looks great. You know,
S3: like you got those, like leaked photos from set and
S3: it was just like Sebastian Stan as Trump sitting on
S3: a bench eating a sandwich. I was like, yeah, I
S3: am in for this. I actually reckon that could also
S3: be one that maybe is a like a bit of
S3: a surprise hit at the box office. Like we're going
S3: to be deep in, you know, Trump content for the
S3: next like few months as the election heats up and
S3: the debates and everything. So yeah, it's interesting timing and
S3: I suspect that might do quite well. Plus all the
S3: succession heads will be so keen to see number one
S3: son back on screens.
S1: Shall we go to Cannes?
S3: Yes we should.
S2: Yes we absolutely. How do we get there?
S1: Um, which hopefully someone listening to this podcast, either one
S1: of our bosses or someone more, you know, wealthier and
S1: some sort of patron just wants to send us there
S1: to do podcasts for two weeks.
S4: Man, I.
S2: Would love a patron. I think about kind of back
S2: in the day, the Renaissance and having a patron. We
S2: all need one like we should all individually kind of
S2: acquire a patron.
S4: I'm surprised you don't have one.
S3: You seem like the patron type. I thought.
S4: The Nine.
S1: Entertainment company is our patron. What are you talking about? Um, let's, uh,
S1: move on to our Impress Your Friends segment where we
S1: share something we watched, listened to, read. Otherwise, enjoy consuming
S1: this week. Mine's pretty quick. TV is in a bit
S1: of a lull, I reckon. I'm hoping that one of
S1: you has a great show to recommend, but I went
S1: a bit sideways. Talk about music. Chief Keef has a
S1: new album Almighty. So two back on my hip hop
S1: thing after the Kendrick Drake beef. I'm like, you know
S1: what country's over, man? Hip hop is where it's. At
S1: a caf is like the godfather of Chicago drill. It's
S1: probably been one of the most interesting and influential genres
S1: in hip hop over the past decade. This is a
S1: really great album. It's like a full return to the
S1: drill roots he had, but it feels like contemporary and
S1: progressive and fun to really, really good album. It's really hard.
S1: Go listen to it. That's my recommendation.
S2: Nice, I will. Well, I am this this week recommending
S2: the Sydney Morning Herald 2024 Best young Australian Novelists.
S3: Either of us on the.
S4: List, you.
S2: Are absolutely not, but famously has written a book. Yes. Um,
S2: these we announce these every year. The prize is in
S2: its 28th year, which is kind of insane. Um, and
S2: the winners get $5,000 thanks to the Copyright Agency Cultural Fund. Um,
S2: they have to be under 35 or 35 at the
S2: time of publication. So there you go. You've both got
S2: a few more years. Um, the winners this year were
S2: Andre Dao, who wrote Anam, which is this kind of
S2: sweeping story based on his own family history. John Morrissey,
S2: who has written a really great, fun, interesting short story collection,
S2: kind of speculative fiction, and Emily O'Grady, whose novel feast
S2: is really dark and full of tension. And she said
S2: it was inspired by this dream she had about Nick
S2: Cave and Tilda Swinton being in love, stuck in a gothic, um,
S2: stuck in a gothic castle. So three really different books,
S2: three really interesting books, and kind of, you know, I read,
S2: I think about there were more than 30 or so
S2: young novelists entered in the prize. So it's a really
S2: good way to get a temperature check about what's coming
S2: out of emerging writers in, in the country. And I
S2: think these three really kind of, you know, cream of
S2: the crop and a and a good sign of what
S2: is being written in Australia now. So, um, yeah, I'd
S2: recommend each of their books and all three because they're
S2: all so different.
S3: They all sound very good. I'm keen, especially feast, I think.
S3: I want to check that out. I think you would.
S2: Really like that.
S3: I also have a book this week actually, also by
S3: an Australian author.
S4: Great.
S3: Are you proud of me? Uh, this is Thunderhead by Miranda, darling.
S3: I'm not sure if either of you have read this.
S3: I have read.
S2: This. Yes. I knew you would like this book.
S4: Really? Yeah.
S3: Yeah, it's really good. Uh, it's like it's a funny one.
S3: Like it, I guess. I hate to be this person, but, like,
S3: for fans of Rachel Cusk, it does feel very, uh,
S3: in that space, right down to actually the cover art,
S3: which looks basically like a Rachel Cusk book. But this
S3: is Thunderhead by Miranda Darling. She's an Australian author. Um,
S3: it's basically set over the course of one day when
S3: we meet Winona Dalloway. And basically she's a mother of
S3: two who we learn is in this very strange relationship.
S3: It's kind of like a stream of consciousness book. Um,
S3: but there are multiple voices that are kind of talking
S3: to each other as she, you know, prepares for this
S3: dinner party. We kind of learn that she's in this
S3: coercive relationship. Her husband, who only is referred to as
S3: him or he, uh, is, you know, not a very
S3: nice person. Um, it's like this kind of, like, snapshot
S3: of suburbia and motherhood and crushed dreams and all these
S3: different things. There's a lot going on, but it's very tense. Um,
S3: it's a short book. You can read it basically in
S3: 1 or 2 sittings, but I've been really enjoying it. Plus,
S3: there are the occasional side references to Sydney and Taronga Zoo.
S3: But yeah, it's great, it's gripping and it feels very
S3: like contemporary. So if you're into that type of thing, uh,
S3: that is Thunderhead by Miranda Darling, and the cover does
S3: look great. So if you chuck it on your grid,
S3: Osman and I will probably like it. So that's what's up.
S4: Your ability to.
S1: Turn every book review into a comment about the cover
S1: and Instagram is very funny to me. Um, no. Really
S1: good Rex books and music to listen to while we
S1: wait for like good TV to come back. But there
S1: are a couple of exciting things on that front that
S1: I hope we will get to talk about in the
S1: next couple of weeks. Thomas and Mel, thanks so much, Tim.
S4: Thank you. That'll do pig.
S1: This episode of The Drop was produced by Kai Wong.
S1: If you enjoyed listening to today's episode of The Drop,
S1: make sure to follow us in your favorite podcast app.
S1: Leave us a review or better yet, share it with
S1: a friend! I'm Usman Farooqi, see you next week.