1 00:00:03,400 --> 00:00:07,240 S1: As much as Australians love to hate Kyle Sandilands and 2 00:00:07,240 --> 00:00:11,680 S1: Jackie O, who for so long ruled Australia's most expensive 3 00:00:11,680 --> 00:00:16,520 S1: radio program, the implosion of their show is consequential and 4 00:00:16,520 --> 00:00:19,720 S1: not just in a business sense. Though if Sandilands is 5 00:00:19,720 --> 00:00:23,160 S1: successful in the lawsuit he launched against his former employer 6 00:00:23,160 --> 00:00:26,480 S1: this week, it could take down the entire radio network. 7 00:00:26,960 --> 00:00:29,920 S1: I'm Samantha Selinger Morris, and you're listening to The Morning 8 00:00:29,920 --> 00:00:34,320 S1: Edition from The Age and The Sydney Morning Herald today. 9 00:00:34,360 --> 00:00:38,479 S1: Media writer Callum Jaspin on whether Kyle Sandilands might take 10 00:00:38,479 --> 00:00:41,640 S1: his brand to another platform and turn it into a 11 00:00:41,640 --> 00:00:45,560 S1: political force with an even greater focus on the grotesque. 12 00:00:46,000 --> 00:00:54,960 S1: And what's happened to Jackie O. It's March the 25th. Callum, 13 00:00:54,960 --> 00:00:56,440 S1: welcome back to the podcast. 14 00:00:56,680 --> 00:00:57,640 S2: Thanks for having me. 15 00:00:58,240 --> 00:01:02,760 S1: Okay. This week, Kyle Sandilands launched legal action against the 16 00:01:02,760 --> 00:01:06,520 S1: radio company Arn for sacking him. Tell us, what is 17 00:01:06,520 --> 00:01:07,840 S1: this stoush all about? 18 00:01:08,600 --> 00:01:11,760 S2: Well, I think it can really be boiled down to 19 00:01:11,800 --> 00:01:15,480 S2: a case of flying too close to the sun. Kyle 20 00:01:15,480 --> 00:01:18,160 S2: and Jackie O have been a mainstay in Australian media 21 00:01:18,160 --> 00:01:20,640 S2: for more than 25 years, and for a big chunk 22 00:01:20,640 --> 00:01:23,800 S2: of that, they've been some of the highest paid yet 23 00:01:23,840 --> 00:01:27,880 S2: most popular and controversial characters. On Radio. 24 00:01:28,800 --> 00:01:33,440 S3: Australia's most controversial media performer, Kyle Sandilands, has escaped punishment 25 00:01:33,440 --> 00:01:36,680 S3: again for one of his offensive on air traffic. 26 00:01:36,680 --> 00:01:41,040 S4: Conversations about sex. Plus, female staff recorded using the toilet. 27 00:01:41,040 --> 00:01:44,480 S5: And the boys will try and figure out who's made 28 00:01:44,480 --> 00:01:45,160 S5: that we. 29 00:01:46,200 --> 00:01:49,040 S6: And what exactly will it take for commercial radio shock 30 00:01:49,040 --> 00:01:52,040 S6: jock Kyle Sandilands to get the sack? In the past 31 00:01:52,040 --> 00:01:54,920 S6: two days, sponsors have been deserting the Kyle and Jackie 32 00:01:54,920 --> 00:01:58,520 S6: O show in droves after Mr. Sandilands made some puerile, 33 00:01:58,560 --> 00:02:01,000 S6: sexist comments about a female journalist. 34 00:02:01,760 --> 00:02:06,600 S7: Some fat slag on Telegraph website. I'm sorry. News.com.au has 35 00:02:06,600 --> 00:02:08,360 S7: already branded it a disaster. 36 00:02:08,880 --> 00:02:10,080 S8: A disaster. 37 00:02:10,120 --> 00:02:12,600 S7: What a what a fat bit of thing you are. 38 00:02:12,680 --> 00:02:15,840 S2: But a major part of their bargaining power has to 39 00:02:15,880 --> 00:02:18,480 S2: this point, been. Well, if you don't want us, someone 40 00:02:18,480 --> 00:02:21,560 S2: else would. The story has really ramped up in the 41 00:02:21,560 --> 00:02:26,520 S2: past few years after the duo launched into Melbourne, and 42 00:02:26,560 --> 00:02:31,959 S2: they were handed an astonishing $200 million, ten year contract 43 00:02:31,960 --> 00:02:38,400 S2: in 2023 by their employers, Arn media. Now, the backdrop 44 00:02:38,400 --> 00:02:42,560 S2: of this most recent stoush has been that since launching 45 00:02:42,560 --> 00:02:46,840 S2: into Melbourne in April 2024, it really couldn't have gone 46 00:02:46,840 --> 00:02:52,040 S2: much worse from both a ratings and advertiser perspective. And 47 00:02:52,160 --> 00:02:56,640 S2: on February 20th this year, after Kyle had already that 48 00:02:56,639 --> 00:02:59,590 S2: Friday morning, clearly maybe woken up on the wrong side 49 00:02:59,590 --> 00:03:03,070 S2: of bed, but he'd spent the morning berating the show's 50 00:03:03,070 --> 00:03:06,230 S2: producers for not being up to scratch. And then later, 51 00:03:06,230 --> 00:03:09,310 S2: he turned his focus to Jackie O, accusing her of 52 00:03:09,310 --> 00:03:13,070 S2: being off with the fairies while looking into astrology charts 53 00:03:13,070 --> 00:03:17,030 S2: on that show relating to the former Prince Andrew Mountbatten-Windsor. 54 00:03:17,430 --> 00:03:20,870 S9: Oh, it's affecting other things, like your fixation on this 55 00:03:20,910 --> 00:03:23,750 S9: has made you almost unworkable. 56 00:03:24,270 --> 00:03:26,070 S10: Oh, it's not that bad. Oh. 57 00:03:27,389 --> 00:03:28,910 S9: You're not talking. I'm talking. 58 00:03:28,910 --> 00:03:30,550 S10: You do that like that's not fair. 59 00:03:30,590 --> 00:03:34,310 S9: Like I it's but it's but it's actually true. But you, you, 60 00:03:34,350 --> 00:03:36,270 S9: you might have done that in five minutes, but you're 61 00:03:36,310 --> 00:03:37,670 S9: off with the fairies with this shit. 62 00:03:37,790 --> 00:03:39,910 S10: Tell me where. No, no, no, tell me where. I've 63 00:03:39,910 --> 00:03:41,230 S10: been off with the fairies during the show. 64 00:03:41,270 --> 00:03:42,790 S9: I don't have to. I don't have to prove anything. 65 00:03:42,790 --> 00:03:43,070 S9: You do. 66 00:03:43,110 --> 00:03:44,830 S10: You can't accuse me of doing something. 67 00:03:44,910 --> 00:03:48,150 S9: Listen to the. Listen to the programme. You'll hear yourself. 68 00:03:48,190 --> 00:03:49,670 S10: Oh, no. Just give me one example. 69 00:03:49,710 --> 00:03:51,710 S9: Be aware of what's really going on. 70 00:03:52,110 --> 00:03:55,950 S10: Kyle, I totally am offended by you saying something. 71 00:03:58,510 --> 00:04:02,390 S2: He sort of said live on air, that everyone else 72 00:04:02,390 --> 00:04:04,670 S2: is thinking the same thing in this building. You don't 73 00:04:04,670 --> 00:04:08,030 S2: give a shit. Now, she didn't return to the show 74 00:04:08,310 --> 00:04:10,510 S2: the following week and the week after that on the 75 00:04:10,510 --> 00:04:14,830 S2: Tuesday evening. Arne releases a statement saying that her contract 76 00:04:14,830 --> 00:04:17,870 S2: had been terminated after she informed the company she could 77 00:04:17,870 --> 00:04:22,870 S2: no longer work with Sandilands. So I guess to sum 78 00:04:22,910 --> 00:04:26,950 S2: up the show's success in Sydney over the past two decades, 79 00:04:26,950 --> 00:04:30,990 S2: for anyone who hasn't listened but sort of knows the formula. 80 00:04:31,029 --> 00:04:34,550 S2: I'll leave this to Kyle's lawyers now. This is an 81 00:04:34,550 --> 00:04:37,630 S2: extract from his statement of claim filed to the federal 82 00:04:37,630 --> 00:04:42,190 S2: court over the weekend. Quote, it was high energy and controversial, 83 00:04:42,350 --> 00:04:46,990 S2: involving the broadcast, amongst other things, material that was irreverent 84 00:04:46,990 --> 00:04:51,470 S2: and deliberately provocative, including using crude humour, ribald commentary and 85 00:04:51,470 --> 00:04:55,710 S2: sexual innuendo. Banter and tension between Mr. Sandilands and Miss 86 00:04:55,710 --> 00:04:59,070 S2: Henderson was a central dynamic to the show. Mr. Sandilands 87 00:04:59,070 --> 00:05:02,469 S2: generally performed the role of the dominant and abrasive personality, 88 00:05:02,510 --> 00:05:06,310 S2: who was deliberately outrageous and often offensive, whilst Miss Henderson 89 00:05:06,310 --> 00:05:10,150 S2: played a moderating role as a warmer and more emotionally 90 00:05:10,150 --> 00:05:13,430 S2: attuned character. The statement of claim says. 91 00:05:14,430 --> 00:05:16,789 S1: And so if I've got this right, Callum is is 92 00:05:16,790 --> 00:05:23,070 S1: Kyle Sandilands main argument that essentially the Arn radio network 93 00:05:23,070 --> 00:05:26,109 S1: paid him for his out there behaviour and therefore to 94 00:05:26,150 --> 00:05:29,510 S1: sack him for that same behaviour is invalid because he 95 00:05:29,510 --> 00:05:33,150 S1: actually committed no serious misconduct or breach of contract. Like 96 00:05:33,190 --> 00:05:35,310 S1: is essentially that what the judge is going to have 97 00:05:35,310 --> 00:05:36,270 S1: to judge on? 98 00:05:36,710 --> 00:05:39,190 S2: Well, again, it's hard to know. But if we're to 99 00:05:39,230 --> 00:05:43,349 S2: take Sandilands as lawyer's word for it, not only was 100 00:05:43,670 --> 00:05:46,310 S2: that consistent with the past behaviour, but he sort of 101 00:05:46,350 --> 00:05:50,630 S2: claims that he was doing what was actually asked of him. Now, 102 00:05:51,150 --> 00:05:55,150 S2: the contract says that Sandilands and his lawyers reckon that 103 00:05:55,150 --> 00:05:57,750 S2: this was absolutely no different to the car on Jackie O. 104 00:05:58,029 --> 00:06:00,710 S2: We've known for so long and that in fact, he, 105 00:06:00,750 --> 00:06:02,990 S2: as we've all sort of said in the past, is 106 00:06:02,990 --> 00:06:06,190 S2: that he's said and done much, much worse. His lawyers 107 00:06:06,190 --> 00:06:08,830 S2: wrote that the exchange was congruent with the style, tone 108 00:06:08,830 --> 00:06:11,750 S2: and nature of the show and the robust character that 109 00:06:11,790 --> 00:06:15,830 S2: Arn desired. Now, that last word desired suggests this was 110 00:06:15,830 --> 00:06:19,310 S2: a tried and tested formula that Arn had specifically asked for, 111 00:06:19,310 --> 00:06:22,510 S2: and Kyle was playing into intentionally. They say there was 112 00:06:22,510 --> 00:06:25,469 S2: no breach, and what does seem apparent is that while 113 00:06:25,510 --> 00:06:29,670 S2: Kyle may have an argument, Henderson has now deviated and 114 00:06:29,670 --> 00:06:32,190 S2: it's left all three parties in a tight spot. 115 00:06:33,230 --> 00:06:35,190 S1: Okay, so that brings us up to today. We know 116 00:06:35,190 --> 00:06:38,669 S1: that this fallout has just been a massive gossip story, 117 00:06:38,670 --> 00:06:42,190 S1: but it's also a really unique business story. Tell us why. 118 00:06:43,190 --> 00:06:46,909 S2: So I don't think the stakes have ever really been 119 00:06:47,150 --> 00:06:50,870 S2: higher for a media company than they are with this deal. 120 00:06:51,270 --> 00:06:54,070 S2: And that's for any kind of media, let alone radio. 121 00:06:54,470 --> 00:06:57,990 S2: This kind of money really is astronomical now. For the 122 00:06:57,990 --> 00:07:01,870 S2: first time again on Monday evening, we got a bit 123 00:07:01,910 --> 00:07:05,790 S2: of a look into the actual details of this contract. Now, 124 00:07:05,830 --> 00:07:10,590 S2: Sandilands claims he is still owed upwards of 85 million. 125 00:07:10,830 --> 00:07:13,110 S2: There was a breakdown in sort of just how he 126 00:07:13,150 --> 00:07:17,110 S2: has paid. That included a $7.4 million upfront annual fee. 127 00:07:17,390 --> 00:07:22,750 S2: It included a $200,000 per year consultancy fee, licensing fees 128 00:07:22,750 --> 00:07:27,670 S2: and a $120,000 per year flight allowance. Now, I think 129 00:07:27,710 --> 00:07:31,030 S2: probably any listeners would probably get better bang for their 130 00:07:31,030 --> 00:07:34,190 S2: buck than their Qantas frequent flyer points on that. But 131 00:07:34,470 --> 00:07:37,989 S2: sort of regardless of what you think, radio hosts just 132 00:07:37,990 --> 00:07:40,030 S2: don't have the same kind of cut through that they 133 00:07:40,070 --> 00:07:43,550 S2: once did. As share of listening has been impacted by 134 00:07:43,870 --> 00:07:48,550 S2: things like watching TikTok reels or listening to podcasts on 135 00:07:48,550 --> 00:07:51,990 S2: Apple and Spotify. And as part of that, content has 136 00:07:51,990 --> 00:07:55,300 S2: just become generally more globalized. But at the same time, 137 00:07:55,540 --> 00:07:57,700 S2: Kyle and Jackie O at the time of this deal 138 00:07:57,700 --> 00:08:00,380 S2: were becoming more popular. They got their best ever share 139 00:08:00,380 --> 00:08:05,740 S2: result in the third share of 2023. And Arne had 140 00:08:05,740 --> 00:08:08,500 S2: this unique opportunity and they wanted to make the most 141 00:08:08,500 --> 00:08:10,820 S2: of it. So what they decided was they would take 142 00:08:10,820 --> 00:08:14,220 S2: the show that was, you know, for 20 years dominant 143 00:08:14,220 --> 00:08:17,660 S2: in Sydney to the three other markets that they had 144 00:08:17,660 --> 00:08:20,980 S2: the Kiss network in, that being Melbourne, Brisbane and Adelaide. 145 00:08:20,980 --> 00:08:24,340 S2: Melbourne was the first one. Melbourne is the biggest radio 146 00:08:24,340 --> 00:08:27,100 S2: market in Australia. So they thought, well, look, if this 147 00:08:27,100 --> 00:08:28,980 S2: show has been so successful in Sydney, we have an 148 00:08:28,980 --> 00:08:33,300 S2: even bigger opportunity in Melbourne. But the important point here 149 00:08:33,300 --> 00:08:38,940 S2: is that with $20 million per year, paying them this 150 00:08:38,940 --> 00:08:41,780 S2: much would only work if the show was successful elsewhere. 151 00:08:41,980 --> 00:08:45,340 S2: Because the money that you're saving on on air talent 152 00:08:45,380 --> 00:08:50,700 S2: on production team's individual marketing, less localized content, it can 153 00:08:50,700 --> 00:08:54,740 S2: only be replaced if this show is a juggernaut and 154 00:08:54,740 --> 00:08:58,900 S2: that that is replicated into Melbourne. Now, interestingly, there wasn't 155 00:08:58,940 --> 00:09:01,100 S2: actually a heap of criticism of the deal at the time. 156 00:09:01,140 --> 00:09:03,820 S2: I guess that says something about just how successful they 157 00:09:03,820 --> 00:09:07,500 S2: were that people thought that this maybe made sense. But 158 00:09:07,740 --> 00:09:10,020 S2: in radio terms, it's a little bit like having the 159 00:09:10,059 --> 00:09:13,260 S2: AFL or the NRL in television. As long as you 160 00:09:13,260 --> 00:09:16,500 S2: have them, you'll get ratings and therefore advertising dollars, and 161 00:09:16,500 --> 00:09:20,460 S2: without them you lose a potential massive audience. But it 162 00:09:20,460 --> 00:09:22,980 S2: was maybe a bit presumptuous to assume that Melbourne would 163 00:09:22,980 --> 00:09:25,820 S2: take to them and the numbers would simply be replicated. 164 00:09:26,260 --> 00:09:29,300 S1: And we know that ever since a Carl Sandilands contract 165 00:09:29,300 --> 00:09:32,140 S1: was torn up last week, that the impact on Arn, 166 00:09:32,260 --> 00:09:33,860 S1: it was just immediate, wasn't it? 167 00:09:34,500 --> 00:09:38,580 S2: Yeah, to put it bluntly, it has torn apart Arn. 168 00:09:38,660 --> 00:09:41,020 S2: The company is now worth less than a third of 169 00:09:41,020 --> 00:09:43,059 S2: what it was worth when they handed them the deal 170 00:09:43,380 --> 00:09:47,660 S2: on Monday. The company's market value dropped below 100 million, 171 00:09:48,100 --> 00:09:51,100 S2: and it was only months after their sort of immediately 172 00:09:51,100 --> 00:09:55,460 S2: disastrous launch into Melbourne that had flopped. We were reporting 173 00:09:55,460 --> 00:09:58,260 S2: that ALM was preparing to make $20 million in cuts 174 00:09:58,500 --> 00:10:02,699 S2: and cut 50 staff. These continued as advertiser share continued 175 00:10:02,700 --> 00:10:08,060 S2: to fall. They've now cut more than 250 jobs since then, 176 00:10:08,059 --> 00:10:12,780 S2: and offshored several of their sort of more back end functions. 177 00:10:13,420 --> 00:10:16,059 S2: The fact that the show never really got out of 178 00:10:16,059 --> 00:10:20,540 S2: eighth place at breakfast in Melbourne meant that advertisers just 179 00:10:20,540 --> 00:10:23,260 S2: went elsewhere, and this was obviously in combination with an 180 00:10:23,260 --> 00:10:26,900 S2: activist campaign by the mad fucking witches. And all of 181 00:10:26,940 --> 00:10:30,500 S2: that just really spelt this situation where things went from 182 00:10:30,500 --> 00:10:34,660 S2: bad to worse. The show contributed to Aaron losing 16% 183 00:10:34,660 --> 00:10:39,380 S2: of its advertising revenue in 2025 alone. That equates to 184 00:10:39,660 --> 00:10:44,020 S2: 28 million. So the knock on effect of your breakfast 185 00:10:44,020 --> 00:10:46,339 S2: show flopping, which is really meant to set up the 186 00:10:46,340 --> 00:10:49,660 S2: whole day for a station, can't be understated. 187 00:10:51,179 --> 00:10:52,100 S1: After the break. 188 00:10:52,620 --> 00:10:54,620 S2: The view was sort of, look, here's this crass duo 189 00:10:54,660 --> 00:10:57,459 S2: who are going to come to Melbourne. They're openly bragging, 190 00:10:57,460 --> 00:11:00,900 S2: or at least Sandilands is about doing zero work to 191 00:11:00,940 --> 00:11:03,180 S2: try and win over the Melbourne audience. They barely made 192 00:11:03,179 --> 00:11:05,820 S2: a trip down to Melbourne, and they want you to 193 00:11:05,860 --> 00:11:08,640 S2: be aware of the fact that they're getting paid 10 194 00:11:08,640 --> 00:11:10,620 S2: million bucks each a year to do so. 195 00:11:15,660 --> 00:11:18,460 S1: Okay, but what does it actually matter if this company tanks? 196 00:11:18,500 --> 00:11:19,900 S1: Like walk us through that. 197 00:11:20,220 --> 00:11:22,740 S2: If we do get to a point where Arn is 198 00:11:22,740 --> 00:11:25,940 S2: forced to pay out what Sandilands claims he's owed more 199 00:11:25,940 --> 00:11:29,660 S2: than 85 million, it could prove existential for the company. 200 00:11:29,700 --> 00:11:33,140 S2: And now that's important for a few reasons, one of 201 00:11:33,140 --> 00:11:37,060 S2: them being that whatever you think of The Car and 202 00:11:37,059 --> 00:11:40,940 S2: Jackie O show, they are a uniquely Australian, well sourced, 203 00:11:40,940 --> 00:11:45,660 S2: local piece of content that is coming out of Australia, 204 00:11:45,660 --> 00:11:47,579 S2: and it's harder and harder to come by at the moment, 205 00:11:47,580 --> 00:11:50,939 S2: as everything from talent to advertising dollars are scooped up 206 00:11:50,940 --> 00:11:55,979 S2: by digital giants. And so with this court case potentially 207 00:11:55,980 --> 00:11:59,340 S2: taking years, that time off air for for both of 208 00:11:59,340 --> 00:12:04,100 S2: them could prove catastrophic, particularly for Sandilands, whose daily broadcasts 209 00:12:04,380 --> 00:12:07,740 S2: are almost the oxygen that keeps him relevant. And there's 210 00:12:07,740 --> 00:12:10,860 S2: also an argument that this could be detrimental to radio. Overall, 211 00:12:11,620 --> 00:12:15,340 S2: their contract and popularity added to radio's relevance itself, and 212 00:12:15,340 --> 00:12:19,540 S2: without them, hundreds of thousands of listeners who either listen 213 00:12:19,540 --> 00:12:22,579 S2: to the show or cycled through several shows each morning 214 00:12:22,860 --> 00:12:25,140 S2: on their way to work on the school drop off 215 00:12:25,140 --> 00:12:28,660 S2: or anything like that, could just switch to Spotify. And radio, 216 00:12:28,660 --> 00:12:31,300 S2: in its essence, is built on habits, and once you 217 00:12:31,340 --> 00:12:34,220 S2: kill those habits, which are much easier to kill than 218 00:12:34,220 --> 00:12:36,940 S2: they are to build up, it could be hard to return. 219 00:12:37,740 --> 00:12:38,740 S11: So you just said there that. 220 00:12:38,740 --> 00:12:41,220 S1: Part of the reason it matters is because they were 221 00:12:41,220 --> 00:12:45,100 S1: uniquely Australian, and now we know they've absolutely flopped in Melbourne. 222 00:12:45,140 --> 00:12:47,700 S1: Obviously they were a huge hit for a hugely long 223 00:12:47,700 --> 00:12:49,980 S1: time in Sydney. So do you think that they were 224 00:12:50,020 --> 00:12:54,620 S1: sort of an iconic Australian brand across the nation on 225 00:12:54,620 --> 00:12:56,420 S1: some level. Like, do you think they had that sort 226 00:12:56,420 --> 00:12:58,579 S1: of importance in terms of the radio landscape? 227 00:12:59,220 --> 00:13:02,300 S2: I mean, my view is that the duo are sort 228 00:13:02,300 --> 00:13:06,180 S2: of emblematic of this sort of sense that Sydney is brash, 229 00:13:06,179 --> 00:13:08,540 S2: it's in your face, and it's a place where you 230 00:13:08,580 --> 00:13:12,220 S2: flaunt your wealth compared to Melbourne, where if you're rich, 231 00:13:12,260 --> 00:13:14,940 S2: you try and sort of play it down. And we 232 00:13:14,980 --> 00:13:18,220 S2: sort of saw this with this contract. I mean, in 233 00:13:18,260 --> 00:13:20,860 S2: Henderson's book, which was released a few years ago after 234 00:13:20,860 --> 00:13:25,500 S2: this deal was signed, she talks about them both wanting 235 00:13:25,540 --> 00:13:28,700 S2: to secure this pie in the sky figure, which was 236 00:13:28,700 --> 00:13:32,579 S2: $10 million each per year. I mean, it's pretty rare 237 00:13:32,620 --> 00:13:37,820 S2: that you get people talking about what their they view 238 00:13:37,820 --> 00:13:41,220 S2: their personal value is in dollar terms, so openly as 239 00:13:41,260 --> 00:13:44,140 S2: as these two could. And I think it's probably put 240 00:13:44,140 --> 00:13:46,300 S2: a bit of a target on their back because previously 241 00:13:46,300 --> 00:13:48,780 S2: in Melbourne, people didn't actually pay that much attention to 242 00:13:48,820 --> 00:13:52,570 S2: them like Sandilands is obviously the the host of Australian Idol, 243 00:13:52,570 --> 00:13:55,370 S2: which is a show that obviously a lot of people watch, 244 00:13:55,370 --> 00:13:58,890 S2: but the majority of Australians don't. And by the time 245 00:13:58,890 --> 00:14:01,890 S2: their ten year deal was announced alongside the launch into Melbourne, 246 00:14:02,610 --> 00:14:04,650 S2: the view was sort of, look, here's this crass duo 247 00:14:04,690 --> 00:14:07,530 S2: who are going to come to Melbourne. They're openly bragging, 248 00:14:07,530 --> 00:14:10,970 S2: or at least Sandilands is about doing zero work to 249 00:14:10,970 --> 00:14:13,210 S2: try and win over the Melbourne audience. They barely made 250 00:14:13,210 --> 00:14:15,929 S2: a trip down to Melbourne, and they want you to 251 00:14:15,929 --> 00:14:18,730 S2: be aware of the fact that they're getting paid 10 252 00:14:18,730 --> 00:14:20,650 S2: million bucks each a year to do so. 253 00:14:21,210 --> 00:14:23,770 S1: And I wonder if all this crassness and of course, 254 00:14:23,810 --> 00:14:26,330 S1: you know, sort of telegraphing how much money they wanted 255 00:14:26,330 --> 00:14:28,690 S1: to make and how much they're worth. Uh, do you 256 00:14:28,690 --> 00:14:32,050 S1: think this has put an uncomfortable mirror up to Sydney society? 257 00:14:32,090 --> 00:14:34,250 S1: You know, I mean, obviously they did really well here, 258 00:14:34,370 --> 00:14:37,210 S1: but are they becoming more on the nose in Sydney 259 00:14:37,210 --> 00:14:39,810 S1: as well just for that crassness or is that who 260 00:14:39,810 --> 00:14:41,290 S1: we are? Callum and Sydney. 261 00:14:42,570 --> 00:14:45,210 S2: Look, I don't want to cast aspersions from from down 262 00:14:45,210 --> 00:14:48,890 S2: south because they might come across as biased. But look, 263 00:14:48,930 --> 00:14:52,410 S2: it's undeniable that since the show launched in Melbourne, they 264 00:14:52,410 --> 00:14:58,170 S2: have lost almost 250,000 listeners by survey. So that's a 265 00:14:58,170 --> 00:15:00,490 S2: number that sort of captures anyone that listened to the 266 00:15:00,490 --> 00:15:04,650 S2: show during that period. So whether or not Sydneysiders have 267 00:15:04,650 --> 00:15:09,170 S2: changed their attitude towards them, fewer people were listening by 268 00:15:09,170 --> 00:15:12,930 S2: the end of the show in Sydney. And I think, 269 00:15:13,410 --> 00:15:16,650 S2: you know, it's it's interesting in a sense where you, um, 270 00:15:16,690 --> 00:15:19,450 S2: it's sort of like a, the analogy of a frog 271 00:15:19,450 --> 00:15:22,890 S2: in boiling water where they've been part of the furniture 272 00:15:22,890 --> 00:15:25,730 S2: in Sydney for so long that their listeners are just 273 00:15:25,730 --> 00:15:28,290 S2: used to it. And people that don't listen just go, oh, well, 274 00:15:28,290 --> 00:15:30,690 S2: that's Kyle and Jackie O. You'll get to know them or, 275 00:15:30,730 --> 00:15:34,370 S2: you know, whatever you think of them. But this potentially 276 00:15:34,410 --> 00:15:37,770 S2: shined a spotlight on just some of the content. And 277 00:15:37,770 --> 00:15:40,290 S2: I think, you know, once you have a national media story, 278 00:15:40,290 --> 00:15:44,330 S2: you start getting national media attention. And obviously, the most, 279 00:15:44,330 --> 00:15:47,290 S2: probably the most famous example is the competition where they 280 00:15:47,770 --> 00:15:50,610 S2: tried to tell who was urinating by the sound of 281 00:15:50,650 --> 00:15:54,330 S2: their urine on air. And there's countless examples, but it 282 00:15:54,330 --> 00:15:57,730 S2: just sort of reminds people that this is what's on air. 283 00:15:57,730 --> 00:16:01,970 S2: And look, I think if the show launched in 2026 284 00:16:01,970 --> 00:16:05,450 S2: or another show launched with the exact same content that 285 00:16:05,450 --> 00:16:08,330 S2: people weren't just used to it being written off as 286 00:16:08,330 --> 00:16:10,570 S2: Kyle and Jackie O, I don't think it would have 287 00:16:10,570 --> 00:16:11,930 S2: lasted longer than a few weeks. 288 00:16:12,410 --> 00:16:14,170 S1: And I think it is easy to sort of make 289 00:16:14,210 --> 00:16:17,810 S1: light of the sort of behavior that Kyle Sandilands exhibited 290 00:16:17,850 --> 00:16:19,530 S1: on the show, but it's got to be said that 291 00:16:19,930 --> 00:16:25,450 S1: he did arguably, uh, pronounce some very intolerant views towards 292 00:16:25,610 --> 00:16:28,570 S1: a number of communities. So it isn't all laughing matter. 293 00:16:29,130 --> 00:16:30,970 S1: But I've got to ask, like, if someone like Kyle 294 00:16:30,970 --> 00:16:34,410 S1: Sandilands isn't in radio, won't he just start a podcast 295 00:16:34,410 --> 00:16:36,810 S1: or a YouTube channel? Like, is that is that what 296 00:16:36,810 --> 00:16:37,850 S1: we're likely to see? 297 00:16:38,490 --> 00:16:41,650 S2: Well, I mean, Kyle very much could take his talents 298 00:16:41,650 --> 00:16:44,450 S2: to YouTube. Now. Henderson it sort of seems like maybe 299 00:16:44,690 --> 00:16:46,770 S2: she is wanting to actually just take a step back 300 00:16:46,770 --> 00:16:51,450 S2: from the public spotlight more generally. But, you know, a 301 00:16:51,490 --> 00:16:54,930 S2: sort of comparable example might be we've seen one of 302 00:16:54,930 --> 00:16:59,130 S2: Nine's most popular talents, Karl Stefanovic, launch a podcast this 303 00:16:59,130 --> 00:17:02,730 S2: year as he seemingly tries to set himself up for 304 00:17:02,730 --> 00:17:05,450 S2: life after television. Now, a lot of the stuff that 305 00:17:05,450 --> 00:17:09,050 S2: goes on his channel is largely just interviews with right 306 00:17:09,050 --> 00:17:13,930 S2: wing politicians and influencers, and this kind of stuff would 307 00:17:13,930 --> 00:17:17,090 S2: need a lot more ring fencing on a licensed broadcaster, which, 308 00:17:17,130 --> 00:17:20,570 S2: you know, there are rules that apply to both radio 309 00:17:21,369 --> 00:17:24,770 S2: and to television, and the industry regulator has has really 310 00:17:24,770 --> 00:17:29,730 S2: sharpened its focus on Arn recently, but with fewer regulations. 311 00:17:29,730 --> 00:17:33,730 S2: This means that whether or not you believe Stefanovic's beliefs, 312 00:17:33,890 --> 00:17:36,409 S2: he is clearly identified that there's money to be made 313 00:17:36,410 --> 00:17:39,930 S2: by pandering to a highly engaged, highly online audience that 314 00:17:39,930 --> 00:17:43,690 S2: really appears to line up with this sort of rise 315 00:17:43,690 --> 00:17:46,490 S2: of one nation that we've seen at the moment. Now, 316 00:17:46,490 --> 00:17:49,810 S2: I doubt Kyle does the same in terms of going 317 00:17:49,810 --> 00:17:52,409 S2: down a political avenue, because I just don't think people 318 00:17:52,410 --> 00:17:55,930 S2: would really take him that seriously in that sort of domain. 319 00:17:55,930 --> 00:17:59,250 S2: But what we very well could see is his content 320 00:17:59,250 --> 00:18:03,730 S2: move online and sort of veer further towards this sort 321 00:18:03,730 --> 00:18:07,930 S2: of vulgar, or at least pushing the limits a bit 322 00:18:07,930 --> 00:18:09,169 S2: further in the future. 323 00:18:09,770 --> 00:18:10,810 S11: And so, Callum, what. 324 00:18:10,810 --> 00:18:12,530 S1: Happens now with the court case? 325 00:18:12,890 --> 00:18:17,250 S2: So we've really not heard much from Henderson. She's been 326 00:18:17,250 --> 00:18:21,090 S2: very quiet. She released one statement a few days after 327 00:18:21,090 --> 00:18:26,010 S2: her contract was terminated, saying that she didn't quit. She 328 00:18:26,050 --> 00:18:29,130 S2: seemingly seems to be of the opinion that her contract. 329 00:18:29,130 --> 00:18:31,810 S2: She wanted to keep her contract, but do something else now. 330 00:18:31,850 --> 00:18:35,730 S2: Arne seemed pretty confident of their decision to terminate Henderson's 331 00:18:35,730 --> 00:18:38,530 S2: contract as well. What we understand was that there was 332 00:18:38,530 --> 00:18:42,490 S2: a pretty extensive letter from her lawyers detailing the reasons 333 00:18:42,490 --> 00:18:45,930 S2: just why she didn't want to work with Sandilands any longer, 334 00:18:46,170 --> 00:18:48,800 S2: and because she was contracted to deliver the show with them, 335 00:18:48,800 --> 00:18:52,720 S2: they just tore that contract up. Sandilands, I guess, as 336 00:18:52,720 --> 00:18:54,879 S2: things have always been, has sucked up a lot of 337 00:18:54,880 --> 00:18:58,960 S2: the attention naturally, because he's continued to be a lot 338 00:18:58,960 --> 00:19:02,840 S2: more vocal while she has stayed quiet. Now, there's no 339 00:19:02,840 --> 00:19:05,680 S2: knowing exactly how this court case will play out or 340 00:19:05,680 --> 00:19:08,440 S2: even how quickly it will happen, but I'm sure Sandilands 341 00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:10,840 S2: will want a resolution as quickly as possible so that 342 00:19:10,840 --> 00:19:13,119 S2: he can get back on air or in front of 343 00:19:13,119 --> 00:19:16,040 S2: his listeners somewhere, wherever that will be. But whether a 344 00:19:16,080 --> 00:19:19,040 S2: judge views this as being as important a priority as 345 00:19:19,040 --> 00:19:21,960 S2: he does over another backlog of cases, we'll have to 346 00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:22,679 S2: wait and see. 347 00:19:23,400 --> 00:19:25,840 S1: Well, thank you so much for your time. 348 00:19:26,560 --> 00:19:27,200 S2: Thank you. 349 00:19:37,359 --> 00:19:41,520 S1: In other news, today, Singapore Airlines will launch daily flights 350 00:19:41,520 --> 00:19:46,400 S1: to Sydney's new $6 billion international airport on November 23rd. 351 00:19:46,800 --> 00:19:51,800 S1: Taking advantage of its curfew free status. Tesla is facing 352 00:19:51,800 --> 00:19:55,359 S1: multiple legal actions in Australia over a claim it charged 353 00:19:55,359 --> 00:19:59,359 S1: an Australian customer more than $10,000 for its cutting edge, 354 00:19:59,400 --> 00:20:05,359 S1: fully self-driving software, despite their car being technologically restricted from 355 00:20:05,359 --> 00:20:10,360 S1: activating the autonomous feature here. And the ABC has scrapped 356 00:20:10,359 --> 00:20:14,640 S1: its flagship current affairs program, 730 on Wednesday night, as 357 00:20:14,640 --> 00:20:18,520 S1: more than 2000 staff are expected to strike for the 358 00:20:18,520 --> 00:20:24,560 S1: first time in 20 years. Today's episode was produced by 359 00:20:24,600 --> 00:20:28,000 S1: Kai Wong. Our executive producer is Tammy Mills, and our 360 00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:32,360 S1: podcasts are overseen by Lisa Muxworthy and Tom McKendrick. If 361 00:20:32,400 --> 00:20:35,200 S1: you like our show, follow The Morning Edition and leave 362 00:20:35,200 --> 00:20:39,080 S1: a review for us on Apple or Spotify. Thanks for listening.