1 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:07,520 S1: The reserve Bank lifted the cash rate for the first 2 00:00:07,520 --> 00:00:13,560 S1: time in two years yesterday to 3.85%, exactly as mortgage 3 00:00:13,560 --> 00:00:16,720 S1: holders have been fearing. But what if many of us 4 00:00:16,720 --> 00:00:19,640 S1: are not actually in the cost of living crisis that 5 00:00:19,640 --> 00:00:23,000 S1: we keep being told that we're in, and that this 6 00:00:23,000 --> 00:00:28,320 S1: new interest rate is comparatively good? I'm Samantha Selinger Morris, 7 00:00:28,320 --> 00:00:31,080 S1: and you're listening to Morning Edition from The Age and 8 00:00:31,080 --> 00:00:36,400 S1: the Sydney Morning Herald today, senior economics reporter Matt Wade 9 00:00:36,400 --> 00:00:39,279 S1: on how obsessing over the cost of living hides the 10 00:00:39,280 --> 00:00:45,360 S1: real challenges of our age. Welcome, Matt. 11 00:00:45,400 --> 00:00:46,400 S2: Thanks for having me. 12 00:00:46,680 --> 00:00:49,080 S1: Okay, so I'm very excited to speak to you because 13 00:00:49,080 --> 00:00:51,879 S1: you argue that for many of us, the so-called cost 14 00:00:51,880 --> 00:00:55,360 S1: of living crisis isn't really backed by evidence. So what 15 00:00:55,360 --> 00:00:57,720 S1: do you mean by that? I mean, all the headlines 16 00:00:57,720 --> 00:01:00,760 S1: are saying that we are indeed experiencing one. 17 00:01:01,560 --> 00:01:03,700 S2: Yeah, well, I guess one of the things is there's 18 00:01:03,700 --> 00:01:07,380 S2: no doubt that many households have come under cost of 19 00:01:07,380 --> 00:01:10,220 S2: living pressure. You could even call it a cost of 20 00:01:10,220 --> 00:01:13,619 S2: living crunch. But I think when you think across the 21 00:01:13,620 --> 00:01:17,100 S2: whole of Australian society, the all of our households, all 22 00:01:17,140 --> 00:01:21,860 S2: the families calling it a crisis is probably overstating it 23 00:01:21,860 --> 00:01:25,820 S2: for the vast majority. And we've got very good data 24 00:01:25,819 --> 00:01:30,259 S2: that goes back 20 years, where a group from Melbourne, 25 00:01:30,300 --> 00:01:33,819 S2: the Melbourne Institute at Melbourne University, have asked households a 26 00:01:33,819 --> 00:01:38,380 S2: whole lot of questions about their financial situation. Um, it's 27 00:01:38,380 --> 00:01:41,220 S2: called the Hilda survey. It's a very famous long running 28 00:01:41,420 --> 00:01:45,540 S2: survey in Australia. Very valuable. And so they've asked these 29 00:01:45,540 --> 00:01:50,180 S2: questions about financial stress since 2001 of a similar sample 30 00:01:50,180 --> 00:01:53,500 S2: of 9000 households. And it turns out that in the 31 00:01:53,500 --> 00:01:56,860 S2: past few years, while the level has risen a bit, 32 00:01:56,900 --> 00:02:00,100 S2: it's not out of step with that whole 20 year period. 33 00:02:00,100 --> 00:02:01,980 S2: And in fact, it's a little lower than it was 34 00:02:01,980 --> 00:02:07,080 S2: in the early 2000. So this language of crisis, I think, 35 00:02:07,120 --> 00:02:09,399 S2: can be a little bit of an overstatement. 36 00:02:09,840 --> 00:02:11,880 S1: And you point out in your most recent column that 37 00:02:11,880 --> 00:02:15,240 S1: one Anu economist says that households are typically well ahead 38 00:02:15,240 --> 00:02:17,440 S1: of those a generation ago. So walk us through that 39 00:02:17,440 --> 00:02:18,040 S1: a little bit. 40 00:02:18,280 --> 00:02:20,760 S2: Yeah. Well, you see I guess there's always these are 41 00:02:20,760 --> 00:02:25,240 S2: always somewhat relative questions. But let's take wealth for example. 42 00:02:25,639 --> 00:02:28,520 S2: I did a story just the other day about the 43 00:02:28,520 --> 00:02:32,680 S2: incredible growth in household wealth over the past five years. 44 00:02:32,919 --> 00:02:37,720 S2: Now that's average. Obviously it doesn't count for everyone, but overall, 45 00:02:37,760 --> 00:02:41,760 S2: Australian households are far more wealthy than they were even 46 00:02:41,760 --> 00:02:44,639 S2: five years ago, let alone longer. The other thing to 47 00:02:44,639 --> 00:02:48,240 S2: say is that while income growth has probably been a 48 00:02:48,240 --> 00:02:51,840 S2: little bit more subdued over the past decade than many 49 00:02:51,840 --> 00:02:55,520 S2: would hope, for much of that period, we've kept up, 50 00:02:55,520 --> 00:02:59,360 S2: if not had, higher wage growth than inflation. That means 51 00:02:59,360 --> 00:03:04,480 S2: real wage growth. So that's an indicator, again, that, you know, 52 00:03:04,520 --> 00:03:07,010 S2: we might not be way ahead of where we were, 53 00:03:07,090 --> 00:03:10,010 S2: say ten, 15 years ago. We certainly haven't gone backwards. 54 00:03:10,210 --> 00:03:13,450 S1: And so you've also pointed out in your column that historically, 55 00:03:13,490 --> 00:03:16,410 S1: I mean, if we go way back, that interest rates 56 00:03:16,410 --> 00:03:19,209 S1: have been way, way higher. So how much higher are 57 00:03:19,210 --> 00:03:22,330 S1: we talking about? And then why should that be comforting 58 00:03:22,370 --> 00:03:23,209 S1: to us now? 59 00:03:23,850 --> 00:03:27,489 S2: Again, it's quite a complex story here, because we can 60 00:03:27,490 --> 00:03:30,690 S2: look back on the days where many of our probably 61 00:03:30,690 --> 00:03:34,290 S2: our older listeners had were borrowing money. When interest rates 62 00:03:34,330 --> 00:03:38,290 S2: rose to like 18% in the late 1980s, early 1990s. 63 00:03:38,850 --> 00:03:41,970 S2: So that's way off where they are now, right? Um, 64 00:03:42,010 --> 00:03:45,210 S2: where your typical home borrower has a probably a mortgage 65 00:03:45,210 --> 00:03:49,010 S2: rate around 5%, you know, give or take 50 basis 66 00:03:49,010 --> 00:03:52,490 S2: points or half a percentage point or two. So we're 67 00:03:52,490 --> 00:03:55,490 S2: way from those days, of course. But what's changed since 68 00:03:55,490 --> 00:03:59,530 S2: then is that mortgages have got bigger, especially the mortgage 69 00:03:59,530 --> 00:04:03,210 S2: payments or the mortgage amounts of those who recently purchased 70 00:04:03,210 --> 00:04:07,250 S2: the house. So there's certainly differences there. So it's hard 71 00:04:07,250 --> 00:04:10,470 S2: to make comparisons over time, but it's fair to say 72 00:04:10,590 --> 00:04:14,430 S2: that we're the level of interest rates now are certainly 73 00:04:14,430 --> 00:04:18,909 S2: not high by historical standards. And they are, you know, 74 00:04:18,950 --> 00:04:22,229 S2: compared to those days 20 or 30 years ago, quite low. 75 00:04:22,670 --> 00:04:28,270 S2: I'd also add there that often we focus a lot on, 76 00:04:28,310 --> 00:04:31,430 S2: if you like, people who have recently borrowed money to 77 00:04:31,470 --> 00:04:33,910 S2: buy a house or whatever. Now that's a really important 78 00:04:33,910 --> 00:04:37,270 S2: group and we need to be very concerned about that group. 79 00:04:37,430 --> 00:04:40,109 S2: But again, we're looking at the whole of the population here. 80 00:04:40,110 --> 00:04:42,830 S2: And so there's people who maybe borrowed money ten, 15, 81 00:04:42,870 --> 00:04:45,630 S2: 20 years ago. They're paid off a lot of their loan. 82 00:04:45,870 --> 00:04:50,070 S2: And so they're not carrying such big mortgage burdens as, say, 83 00:04:50,070 --> 00:04:52,350 S2: someone who bought a house in the past few years. 84 00:04:52,790 --> 00:04:56,630 S2: They're all part of the Australian community or part of the, 85 00:04:56,870 --> 00:05:00,070 S2: if you like, the household story. And we've got a 86 00:05:00,350 --> 00:05:02,870 S2: sort of take that into account when we start talking 87 00:05:02,870 --> 00:05:04,150 S2: about crisis. 88 00:05:04,790 --> 00:05:07,630 S1: And also, do you think it's relevant? I'm thinking something 89 00:05:07,630 --> 00:05:11,050 S1: that our colleague, economics correspondent Shane Wright mentioned on this 90 00:05:11,050 --> 00:05:13,729 S1: podcast just last week, which is that only two years ago, 91 00:05:13,770 --> 00:05:18,849 S1: mortgage interest rates were 4.35% and that it was 20 92 00:05:18,890 --> 00:05:22,570 S1: years ago under John Howard, when interest rates at the 93 00:05:22,570 --> 00:05:26,130 S1: time were at a record low, and that was at 3.85%, 94 00:05:26,130 --> 00:05:28,210 S1: which is, you know, what the reserve Bank announced. 95 00:05:28,610 --> 00:05:31,409 S2: Well, that's absolutely right. And look, I think we all 96 00:05:31,490 --> 00:05:34,970 S2: often suffer from recency bias. It's a sort of a 97 00:05:35,089 --> 00:05:38,370 S2: a word that gets bandied around often by academics and 98 00:05:38,370 --> 00:05:41,730 S2: economists and so forth. And the point is, during Covid, 99 00:05:41,730 --> 00:05:46,049 S2: we had this extraordinary experience where interest rates went down 100 00:05:46,050 --> 00:05:48,850 S2: to virtually zero. They were just a little bit above zero. 101 00:05:49,410 --> 00:05:50,770 S2: And a lot of us kind of got used to 102 00:05:50,810 --> 00:05:53,529 S2: that as sort of it was great. You know, we've 103 00:05:53,529 --> 00:05:57,090 S2: never experienced such low interest rates ever. But, you know, 104 00:05:57,130 --> 00:05:59,490 S2: what's happened is interest rates have gone back to a 105 00:05:59,490 --> 00:06:03,050 S2: more normal level. And that's where they are now. That 106 00:06:03,050 --> 00:06:05,210 S2: was always going to happen. It was kind of inevitable. 107 00:06:05,570 --> 00:06:09,330 S2: It's certainly unfortunate and a problem that we've got this 108 00:06:09,330 --> 00:06:12,990 S2: uptick in inflation that the reserve Bank is currently grappling with, 109 00:06:13,310 --> 00:06:16,310 S2: but all the figures are fairly within the bounds of 110 00:06:16,310 --> 00:06:20,070 S2: our historical experience. There's nothing unusual going on now that 111 00:06:20,070 --> 00:06:21,950 S2: we haven't perhaps seen in the past. 112 00:06:26,110 --> 00:06:27,109 S1: After the break. 113 00:06:28,390 --> 00:06:31,270 S2: Household wealth inequality is a big deal, and it's going 114 00:06:31,270 --> 00:06:35,950 S2: to take good, thorough, thoughtful policy to address it. We 115 00:06:35,950 --> 00:06:39,630 S2: need to do it. But if politicians are constantly responding 116 00:06:39,670 --> 00:06:43,030 S2: to complaints about the cost of living, it means there's 117 00:06:43,029 --> 00:06:45,950 S2: a lot less political bandwidth to deal with these other 118 00:06:45,950 --> 00:06:47,110 S2: economic challenges. 119 00:06:57,830 --> 00:06:59,789 S1: Okay, but I do want to play devil's advocate for 120 00:06:59,790 --> 00:07:03,710 S1: just a moment in particular about the cost of petrol, groceries. 121 00:07:03,750 --> 00:07:06,390 S1: You know, our bills. Our colleague Shane, right, noted just 122 00:07:06,390 --> 00:07:12,470 S1: last week that electricity prices grew by 21% across 2025. 123 00:07:12,470 --> 00:07:16,450 S1: So surely that would cause enormous strain on some households, right? 124 00:07:17,290 --> 00:07:20,210 S2: You're right. This is a really big problem for certain 125 00:07:20,210 --> 00:07:23,930 S2: types of households. I referred before to the Hilda survey, 126 00:07:23,930 --> 00:07:27,850 S2: which gives us this amazing picture of not just, you know, 127 00:07:28,090 --> 00:07:31,850 S2: average across the board sort of problems or issues that 128 00:07:31,850 --> 00:07:34,930 S2: household face, but the type of household. And it turns 129 00:07:34,930 --> 00:07:38,410 S2: out that the kind of households you might expect, single 130 00:07:38,410 --> 00:07:42,810 S2: parent households with kids often have a high rate of 131 00:07:42,810 --> 00:07:46,610 S2: financial stress. It's interesting, often people who live alone, or 132 00:07:46,770 --> 00:07:50,010 S2: people who don't have a family who are on low incomes, obviously, 133 00:07:50,010 --> 00:07:53,490 S2: they also are overrepresented in sort of, I guess, the 134 00:07:53,490 --> 00:07:57,290 S2: financial stress data. But the other point I'd sort of 135 00:07:57,330 --> 00:08:00,170 S2: make is that we even have data on the share 136 00:08:00,170 --> 00:08:04,090 S2: of people who had trouble paying electricity bills, those who 137 00:08:04,090 --> 00:08:07,810 S2: had had to either put it off or delay or whatever. 138 00:08:08,130 --> 00:08:11,369 S2: And it's lower now. Or the most recent Hilda survey 139 00:08:11,410 --> 00:08:14,170 S2: found it's lower then than it was at several points 140 00:08:14,170 --> 00:08:17,820 S2: over the past 20 years. So even on that example 141 00:08:17,820 --> 00:08:21,700 S2: of electricity that is so often raised, and it is true, 142 00:08:21,940 --> 00:08:26,100 S2: electricity prices have really surged for a variety of reasons. 143 00:08:26,340 --> 00:08:29,580 S2: But this story that suddenly, somehow all these people can't 144 00:08:29,580 --> 00:08:33,420 S2: pay their electricity bills is not borne out by the figures. 145 00:08:33,460 --> 00:08:36,860 S1: Okay. That's interesting. And you mentioned that the average household 146 00:08:36,860 --> 00:08:40,020 S1: in Australia has enjoyed a big increase in wealth. But 147 00:08:40,020 --> 00:08:42,900 S1: I'm just curious, like, does this only apply to homeowners? 148 00:08:42,940 --> 00:08:46,740 S1: What about renters who have been facing massive increases in payments? 149 00:08:47,059 --> 00:08:48,740 S2: Well, this is one of the problems with wealth. I mean, 150 00:08:48,780 --> 00:08:51,620 S2: wealth is an area in Australia where if you do 151 00:08:51,700 --> 00:08:56,740 S2: own property, you've benefited disproportionately. So one of my points about, 152 00:08:56,780 --> 00:09:00,179 S2: I guess, raising the question about the cost of living 153 00:09:00,179 --> 00:09:05,219 S2: crisis is we do have all these other big economic challenges, 154 00:09:05,220 --> 00:09:08,500 S2: and wealth inequality is one of them. But it's like 155 00:09:08,780 --> 00:09:12,060 S2: this so-called crisis for cost of living. It crowds out 156 00:09:12,100 --> 00:09:16,260 S2: discussion of all these other issues. You're right. Household wealth 157 00:09:16,260 --> 00:09:20,839 S2: inequality is a big deal. and it's going to take good, thorough, 158 00:09:20,840 --> 00:09:24,000 S2: thoughtful policy to address it. We need to do it. 159 00:09:24,360 --> 00:09:28,320 S2: But if politicians are constantly responding to complaints about the 160 00:09:28,320 --> 00:09:31,439 S2: cost of living, it means there's a lot less political 161 00:09:31,480 --> 00:09:34,360 S2: bandwidth to deal with these other economic challenges. 162 00:09:34,559 --> 00:09:38,480 S1: And so, Matt, with this interest rate rise to 3.85%, 163 00:09:38,559 --> 00:09:42,160 S1: Australians with mortgages of $600,000, they're going to be paying 164 00:09:42,160 --> 00:09:45,080 S1: about $100 more a month. Right. And that's going to 165 00:09:45,080 --> 00:09:47,319 S1: be stressful for a lot of people, even though we 166 00:09:47,360 --> 00:09:50,840 S1: now understand from our discussion that contextually it's been a 167 00:09:50,840 --> 00:09:53,040 S1: lot higher before. So what do you say to that? 168 00:09:53,480 --> 00:09:58,079 S2: First of all, no one wants to see interest rates increase. 169 00:09:58,080 --> 00:10:00,800 S2: But I'd also make that point that we look at 170 00:10:00,800 --> 00:10:06,240 S2: the household financial stress data. And the reality is that 171 00:10:06,240 --> 00:10:12,480 S2: most Australian borrowers home borrowers are not in financial stress. 172 00:10:12,520 --> 00:10:15,920 S2: In fact, one of the striking features of the last 173 00:10:16,080 --> 00:10:18,440 S2: five years, if we go back to Covid, where we've 174 00:10:18,440 --> 00:10:23,140 S2: had this incredible ups and downs of economic fortunes with, 175 00:10:23,179 --> 00:10:27,339 S2: you know, the disruptions of Covid, super low interest rates. 176 00:10:27,540 --> 00:10:30,780 S2: Then we had that surge of inflation that pushed interest 177 00:10:30,780 --> 00:10:33,660 S2: rates higher. They've come down a bit over the past 178 00:10:33,660 --> 00:10:35,780 S2: year and now they're going up again. But the thing is, 179 00:10:35,780 --> 00:10:42,660 S2: through all that kind of volatility, rates of mortgage distress, 180 00:10:42,940 --> 00:10:45,780 S2: you know, the share of households who couldn't pay their 181 00:10:45,780 --> 00:10:49,059 S2: mortgage if they were a home borrower has remained very 182 00:10:49,059 --> 00:10:52,620 S2: low at historic lows. And that's a really good sign. 183 00:10:52,620 --> 00:10:56,460 S2: It means that the Australian economy and Australian households and 184 00:10:56,500 --> 00:11:01,219 S2: Australian families have done an amazing job of being flexible 185 00:11:01,220 --> 00:11:04,740 S2: and responding to the challenges of the past five years. 186 00:11:05,020 --> 00:11:07,700 S2: And I think you have to say, the reserve Bank 187 00:11:07,740 --> 00:11:09,820 S2: cops a lot of flack because they're, you know, everyone 188 00:11:09,820 --> 00:11:12,660 S2: thinks they're about to lift interest rates, but we are 189 00:11:12,700 --> 00:11:17,980 S2: well served by fine economic institutions in our country, and 190 00:11:17,980 --> 00:11:20,179 S2: that's something we can be very thankful for. 191 00:11:20,420 --> 00:11:23,560 S1: Which brings us, Matt, to the real pointy end of 192 00:11:23,559 --> 00:11:26,160 S1: your argument, which is that there are actually two really 193 00:11:26,160 --> 00:11:28,920 S1: big problems with our obsession with the cost of living 194 00:11:28,920 --> 00:11:31,320 S1: that actually can hurt us in the long run. So 195 00:11:31,360 --> 00:11:32,080 S1: what are they? 196 00:11:32,760 --> 00:11:34,760 S2: Yeah. Well, my my point is, as I say, I 197 00:11:34,760 --> 00:11:38,079 S2: think that, um, our obsession with cost of living has 198 00:11:38,080 --> 00:11:43,600 S2: a couple of unhelpful consequences. The first one is that 199 00:11:43,800 --> 00:11:49,000 S2: it leads government or encourages governments to adopt poor economic policies. 200 00:11:49,320 --> 00:11:51,240 S2: You know, when they know their voters are sort of 201 00:11:51,240 --> 00:11:54,880 S2: whingeing about or complaining about cost of living all the time, 202 00:11:54,880 --> 00:11:58,040 S2: even if they might have high incomes. Mind you, it's 203 00:11:58,040 --> 00:12:01,000 S2: very hard for them to resist doing something about it, 204 00:12:01,000 --> 00:12:04,280 S2: or at least being appearing to do something significant about it. 205 00:12:04,280 --> 00:12:06,600 S2: And a very good example of this was in the 206 00:12:06,600 --> 00:12:11,320 S2: last federal budget. The federal government basically handed out electricity 207 00:12:11,360 --> 00:12:15,200 S2: subsidies to every household. Now, it was a popular policy. 208 00:12:15,200 --> 00:12:17,760 S2: I'm sure people liked that. But the fact of the 209 00:12:17,760 --> 00:12:20,720 S2: matter is that not all of them needed it, and 210 00:12:20,720 --> 00:12:23,240 S2: therefore it's a bit of a waste of money. So 211 00:12:23,500 --> 00:12:26,260 S2: that is like if you're like an inefficient policy for 212 00:12:26,260 --> 00:12:29,660 S2: the government to adopt. And I think that's partly a 213 00:12:29,660 --> 00:12:32,940 S2: result of the political pressure that builds when people have 214 00:12:32,940 --> 00:12:36,420 S2: such strong feelings about cost of living. The second one, 215 00:12:36,420 --> 00:12:39,660 S2: it's a bigger point, I guess, and that is Australia 216 00:12:39,660 --> 00:12:43,700 S2: has a range of massive economic challenges. You can sort 217 00:12:43,700 --> 00:12:45,820 S2: of reel them off. You know, we've got fairly low 218 00:12:45,820 --> 00:12:52,180 S2: productivity and obviously the incredible challenge of the clean energy transition. 219 00:12:52,420 --> 00:12:55,300 S2: And that is a massive and long term economic challenge 220 00:12:55,300 --> 00:12:58,740 S2: that we've got. And you know, many would argue perhaps 221 00:12:58,740 --> 00:13:01,340 S2: one of our biggest challenges, there was a problem I 222 00:13:01,340 --> 00:13:04,860 S2: mentioned before about growing inequality. I think that is going 223 00:13:04,900 --> 00:13:08,180 S2: to become a bigger challenge for Australia as time goes on, 224 00:13:08,220 --> 00:13:12,940 S2: especially intergenerational equity and a whole lot of cluster of 225 00:13:12,940 --> 00:13:16,699 S2: issues around that. And again, the problem is politicians are 226 00:13:16,700 --> 00:13:19,860 S2: very quick to talk about these challenges for cost of living, 227 00:13:20,179 --> 00:13:22,980 S2: but we need to debate these other ones. You know, 228 00:13:23,020 --> 00:13:26,750 S2: if we're going to have a successful energy transition, for instance. 229 00:13:26,750 --> 00:13:29,110 S2: That's going to take a lot of public education, a 230 00:13:29,150 --> 00:13:34,030 S2: lot of discussion with different community groups, helping people understand 231 00:13:34,030 --> 00:13:38,070 S2: what's going on and why we're doing all this stuff 232 00:13:38,070 --> 00:13:42,910 S2: to transition to a low emission economy. And my point 233 00:13:42,910 --> 00:13:45,589 S2: is that when some issue, like cost of living is 234 00:13:45,590 --> 00:13:48,910 S2: taking up all the political space, it's very hard for 235 00:13:48,950 --> 00:13:52,469 S2: that process to get going in a meaningful way or 236 00:13:52,470 --> 00:13:56,230 S2: to get the space that it needs for the community 237 00:13:56,230 --> 00:13:59,190 S2: to be brought along and understand what's going on. 238 00:14:00,550 --> 00:14:02,870 S1: Well, I absolutely love to get your perspective, and I'm 239 00:14:02,870 --> 00:14:05,670 S1: not sure if you are one of those journalists who 240 00:14:05,670 --> 00:14:08,670 S1: likes to read the comments on their pieces, but I'm 241 00:14:08,670 --> 00:14:10,670 S1: expecting that you're going to cop a lot of them 242 00:14:10,670 --> 00:14:13,630 S1: with this one. It's a good thing you're resilient, Matt Wade. 243 00:14:14,190 --> 00:14:16,110 S2: Uh, I'll be I'll be okay. I mean, it's good 244 00:14:16,110 --> 00:14:17,830 S2: to have a bit of a debate about it, because 245 00:14:17,830 --> 00:14:20,910 S2: I do think that, um, yeah, the debate is good 246 00:14:20,910 --> 00:14:21,550 S2: and healthy. 247 00:14:21,710 --> 00:14:24,630 S1: It is. Well, thank you so much, Matt, for your time. 248 00:14:25,110 --> 00:14:25,830 S2: You're welcome. 249 00:14:34,930 --> 00:14:38,050 S1: In other news today, some of the nation's most historic 250 00:14:38,050 --> 00:14:42,850 S1: defense properties, including Victoria Barracks in Sydney, Melbourne and Brisbane 251 00:14:42,850 --> 00:14:45,050 S1: are poised to be sold in the hope of funneling 252 00:14:45,050 --> 00:14:50,170 S1: billions back to defence. Exposure to harmful UV and smoking 253 00:14:50,330 --> 00:14:54,330 S1: were the leading causes of preventable cancers among Australians, according 254 00:14:54,370 --> 00:14:57,650 S1: to a new major global analysis. And residents of a 255 00:14:57,650 --> 00:15:01,930 S1: Melbourne street, Prince Andrew Avenue, have called for Andrew Mountbatten, 256 00:15:01,930 --> 00:15:05,730 S1: Windsor's name to be removed following the former prince's connection 257 00:15:05,890 --> 00:15:10,970 S1: to sex offender Jeffrey Epstein. Today's episode was produced by 258 00:15:10,970 --> 00:15:14,930 S1: Josh towers. Our executive producer is Tammy Mills, and our 259 00:15:14,930 --> 00:15:19,250 S1: podcasts are overseen by Lisa Muxworthy and Tom McKendrick. If 260 00:15:19,290 --> 00:15:22,130 S1: you like our show, follow the Morning Edition and leave 261 00:15:22,130 --> 00:15:26,050 S1: a review for us on Apple or Spotify. Thanks for listening.