S1: Nine podcasts.
S2: Welcome back to Prime Time. With the election almost upon us,
S2: we thought it was the perfect time to check back
S2: in with Shane Wright, our trusted guide to economic stories
S2: behind the politics. Shane's the senior economics correspondent for The
S2: Age and The Sydney Morning Herald, and he's brilliant at
S2: helping us separate the noise from the numbers. Shane Wright,
S2: welcome back to Prime Time.
S3: Can't believe you brought me back. But look, your poor listeners.
S2: We've had six weeks of campaigning now. What has surprised
S2: you economically?
S3: Economically, actually, the biggest surprise apart from the start, which
S3: was the stupidity of Donald Trump's tariffs and Liberation Day,
S3: has been the costings being produced by the opposition on
S3: the second last day, because I think the chutzpah of
S3: the opposition to have been complaining about economic management for
S3: such a long time and then say, oh, by the way,
S3: we'll have two bigger deficits for the next two years
S3: is pretty extraordinary. And you can understand why they waited
S3: until the after the Thursday afternoon before the Saturday election,
S3: when a third of the public have voted to come
S3: out with that sort of reveal.
S2: Wow. It's just it's it's astounding, isn't it?
S3: Yeah. Look, we've had this whole economic, um, through line
S3: from the campaign, from the coalition saying better economic managers,
S3: and they're free to say that. But then when you
S3: come out with the costings and you go, oh, oops,
S3: by the way, and they've been complaining about tax, the
S3: amount of tax being paid by Australians, fair criticism. But
S3: they think their argument is we will improve the budget
S3: bottom line by the end of the decade. I won't
S3: hold my breath, but it's all done by higher tax.
S3: It is all done by higher tax. Like one of
S3: the weirder things. And if Peter Dutton, if the people
S3: traveling with him, they've seen a lot of service stations
S3: over the six the five weeks of the campaign and
S3: the Peter Dutton campaign continues to claim that there is
S3: this yurt tax coming from labor, which is the introduction
S3: of higher fuel standards. The coalition is actually banking on
S3: an extra $600 million by getting rid of that tax.
S3: And I go, how's this? How is this so? It's
S3: because they are expecting that people will pay more fuel
S3: excise because their cars will not be as fuel efficient,
S3: higher tax. Like it's one of the great mysteries. But
S3: that's what they managed to do. So.
S2: Wow. And that's the tax they're waving up front isn't it.
S3: Well they're saying we're not going to go ahead with
S3: it with the with the higher fuel, the better fuel standards,
S3: which start from July 1st. But doing that actually means
S3: they collect more tax. And it makes sense because if
S3: cars are not as fuel efficient, then you burn more fuel.
S3: You pay more fuel excise.
S2: Wow. One of the great mysteries having you to unpick
S2: it just makes so much of a difference to listening
S2: to the lines coming out through the media.
S3: Well, this is the media. Come on.
S2: I know, I know, but but you don't see beneath
S2: the story. And this is the stuff that I, I
S2: am a bit fascinated by because I think we have
S2: to understand rather than just hear.
S3: Out more, if that's what that's what's getting you excited.
S3: But yeah that's.
S2: Yeah. Well sorry. Yeah. So since we last spoke, which
S2: was right back at the beginning of the campaign, Trump's
S2: tariffs have really come in. Cracked the market apart. What
S2: do you think that's going to do to the polls.
S3: Well I think Liberation Day which was April 2nd was
S3: one of the key moments of the campaign because you've
S3: had Peter Dutton, remember in January there he was saying,
S3: we're going to have a Department of Government efficiency. We
S3: all love Elon Musk. He's going to rip. We're going
S3: to rip through and get rid of spending and all
S3: the rest. And then Americans have got to look at him.
S3: The Canadians have got to look at him. The Greenlanders
S3: have got a good look at him. Hell, even the
S3: penguins on heard and McDonald Island have now heard about
S3: Donald Trump. And they've gone, oops a daisy. Um, like,
S3: even this week, we've had, like, two really interesting pieces
S3: of data out of the US. One is the economic
S3: the American economy contracted through the first three months of
S3: the year, which is because every business is trying to
S3: put in product into the US now because of all
S3: these tariffs. And the other thing which showed and also
S3: we've also seen their trade figures. Australia had not run
S3: a trade surplus with the United States since Harry Truman
S3: was president. Okay, we have now run a surplus for
S3: the last three months with the US, and it's because
S3: Americans are buying gold.
S2: Wow.
S3: Lots of gold. Not just from Australia, but Australia is
S3: a big producer of gold, of course, but from other countries.
S3: And it's because gold is a traditional inflation hedge. And
S3: that's what people are doing because they know investors in
S3: the US know tariffs are inflationary. That's why they're buying gold.
S3: That's why gold has gone to such high prices over
S3: the last month or so. So yeah, April 2nd for
S3: an opposition that had gone had linked itself to that Trumpian.
S3: We're going to take on the world and we're going
S3: to we're going to cut government spending was a major issue.
S3: And people and voters here, Australians, even before Trump was elected,
S3: with when did not have any love for Trump. Like
S3: the support, Trump would not be successful in Australia. Like
S3: we can see that in every poll that where he
S3: gets asked about it. And I think that it's such
S3: a key moment when everyone went, oh my God, this
S3: is what Trump, Trump, Trump is Trump ism is. And
S3: that has hurt. You've seen it in the polls, the
S3: Canadian elections, that sort of, um, real antithesis towards what
S3: Trump stands for has hurt everyone on the right or
S3: the populist side of politics over the last.
S2: Very interesting times, isn't it? You wouldn't have predicted this
S2: back in in March, would you?
S3: I have written about how Trump and those tariffs were crazy,
S3: like even the numbers, like the stupidity of ultimately we
S3: got the threat of 145% tariffs on China. Like it
S3: is such a destabilizing aspect of it and it makes
S3: no sense. And people think like his whole argument, that
S3: we will pay for huge tax cuts with revenue on these,
S3: on these imported products, will force people to produce everything locally. Okay.
S3: So that means you don't get any revenue because there's
S3: nothing being imported into the country. How the deficit just
S3: blows out. And and he's running a huge like the
S3: deficit has got bigger since he's taken over. So that's
S3: that's that's Trump. But that's the Trump factor that's played
S3: through a real key line through this whole election campaign
S3: I think.
S2: Yeah. It's amazing something so far away can actually be
S2: so close. Um.
S3: Well, I think like the the last time a US
S3: president has played such a big role in an Australian election,
S3: you have to go back to Harold Holt. And 1966,
S3: when Lyndon Baines Johnson actually visited Australia in October that
S3: year and like huge crowds, this is Pro-vietnam and LBJ
S3: pro Harold Holt. And the 1966 election, which was held
S3: about six weeks later, the biggest victory by any side
S3: of politics in history, the Harold Holt had a huge
S3: win like it was about 5743. Wow. And by 1969,
S3: the Vietnam War was not so popular, and they and
S3: the Liberal Party went very close to losing office in 69.
S3: It finally happened in 72. But that impact of a
S3: US president like we saw it in 2007, people might
S3: remember when John Howard effectively said, Barack Obama, like, if
S3: you if you want if Americans want, uh, terrorists to succeed,
S3: vote for Barack Obama, that people forget that that's he
S3: really leant in at that point. But LBJ 66 was
S3: even bigger impact on an Australian election?
S2: Interesting times, aren't we in? And so for someone heading
S2: to the polls this Saturday, which, you know, it's tomorrow,
S2: it's tomorrow. Um, what are the economic red flags or
S2: promises you'd be reading the fine print on? What should
S2: we be looking for?
S3: Um, anything about either side saying we're going to save money?
S3: Because the history of politicians saving money is a very
S3: sad one. It's a very sad one. And both sides
S3: are doing that. We will save x, y, z. Um,
S3: like the Jim Chalmers and Katy Gallagher have said. Right.
S3: We will improve the budget bottom line by $1 billion
S3: over four years. That means still cumulative deficits of 150 billion. Um,
S3: even with what Angus Taylor and Jane Hume have announced,
S3: the deficits over the next four years are 137 7 billion.
S3: Like so. It's huge. Neither side has really come. Has
S3: been upfront about how they really improve the structural side
S3: of the budget, or how they improve the speed of
S3: the economy, like the policies, their policy, rats and mice
S3: from both sides, rather than something that really goes to
S3: how you improve the functioning of the overall economy, like,
S3: and and if you go down that path, there will
S3: be winners and losers for the last 20 years. Neither
S3: side of politics has wanted to talk about winners and losers.
S3: But in any economic reform, there are losers. Um, and
S3: and no one wants to be completely upfront about that.
S2: So let's let's knock on that door. Who's the loser
S2: in the Liberal Party's picture? And who's the loser in
S2: the Labor Party's picture at the moment as you see it?
S3: Well, the loser is anyone in the public service in
S3: the Liberal Party. And those numbers do not make any sense.
S3: Like they just there is this suggestion and Peter Dutton
S3: has leant into that camp. There's been an extra 41,000
S3: public servants put into Canberra. There's only 69,000 here to
S3: begin with. And that the numbers that they've like. And
S3: we know what happened when the Liberal Party tried to
S3: keep a lid on the public service. And there's nothing
S3: wrong with keeping a lid on the public service. Absolutely
S3: nothing wrong with that. But ultimately, in their last term
S3: of office, which is only three years ago, they ran
S3: into huge problems which required use of labour hire. The.
S3: If anyone wants an idea, read the Veterans Royal Commission
S3: and what happened there people mental health people died because
S3: they weren't able to get access to their compensation or
S3: or or ongoing financial support because of huge delays in
S3: the Veterans Affairs Department.
S2: We know you couldn't get through a Centrelink call line
S2: for for you know, people were saying for months.
S3: That's right. So that's the that's one clear loser for
S3: the for the government. Like you'd be looking at anyone
S3: in in the business sector. Like there's nothing really.
S2: A tough enemy to take on.
S3: It's a tough. Well, this is the Labor Party, but
S3: there's nothing really there that says. Right. We're really supportive
S3: of trying to help you find a way to be
S3: more efficient, to be more productive. They've talked about competition
S3: and the budget actually had a competition element. And I
S3: actually think there were two really interesting policies, one from
S3: either side. They're very, very different. One was Labor's promise
S3: for the standardized tax deduction, which we're in a country
S3: where there are more accountants than there are farmers. And
S3: part of that is because of the stupidity of our
S3: tax system, and the fact that so many of us
S3: have to go to a tax agent. Introduction to the
S3: standardized tax deduction of $1,000. That's been around as an
S3: idea since the Henry tax paper. It's an efficiency gain.
S3: It's not huge, but it is a step on the
S3: coalition side. One of the interesting ones like it hasn't
S3: got any attention. But, uh, and this only affects a
S3: few people, but I think you'll resonate is the idea
S3: that we need somebody, an ambassador around hostage taking. So
S3: they actually have come up with this idea, right. Because
S3: people are being abducted overseas, and there's this whole element
S3: that goes under the under the radar of how you
S3: look after the families and how you get these people back.
S3: They've come up with a really interesting policy whereby you
S3: actually get somebody within foreign affairs who's sort of the
S3: point person, but you actually develop a way to deal
S3: with that. Like it's.
S2: Interesting.
S3: It's an interesting policy you got. Yep. Both sides can
S3: still come up with interesting or good policy. It's just
S3: the crap that's everywhere else. That's the problem.
S2: With me is Shane, right? The senior economics correspondent for
S2: The Age and the Sydney Morning Herald. Well, let's come
S2: back to the stuff that really affects everybody's hip pocket
S2: as we go into the election. Cost of living was
S2: a huge issue when we last spoke. Has any party
S2: put forward a plan that tackles it in a serious,
S2: long term way?
S3: I wouldn't go that far. Neither side. Come on, come on.
S3: Like ultimately like we got some really great inflation figures
S3: this week. Like, and my wife and I were having
S3: a debate about this just the other day about saying Cher.
S3: Cher complaining about inflation is so high. And I said, well,
S3: inflation is not high. And then I said, the other
S3: thing is wages are going up. No they're not. I said, yes,
S3: they are. Your wage is going up. And this is
S3: the issue with inflation. It's when you get into a
S3: whole cost of living argument. Um, because people look at
S3: the price of everything and everything has gone up. Absolutely.
S2: Absolutely.
S3: They're absolutely right. But people don't look at what their
S3: wages are doing either. And they go, hold on, how
S3: am I paying for this? So this has been a
S3: real key argument from Peter Dutton. And he has come
S3: up with this idea. We'll have fuel excise cut for
S3: 12 months, which means in 12 months time, the cost
S3: of your petrol will go up by $0.25 a litre. Yep.
S3: And this one off tax offset, $1,200. Which is mind
S3: boggling silly because this is what happened last under the
S3: last government. And you just people get used to it.
S3: So in two years time, everyone's going to fail. 10
S3: million people face a $1,200 increase in their tax. So
S3: it's just you get, you give with one hand, you
S3: take away with the other.
S2: Right before another election just before.
S3: And someone and ultimately the and this is part of
S3: their costings is the government. The opposition says we won't
S3: go ahead with the tax cut that's been legislated already.
S3: That's all their costings are predicated on this extra like
S3: in 2829, there's an extra $7 billion in personal income
S3: tax collected under the coalition that helps improves their bottom budget.
S3: Bottom line. So you've got that going. You've got tax
S3: going up. So really, really short term the government has
S3: been doing this with, say, its energy subsidies, which run
S3: out at the end of this year. I think the
S3: reserve Bank will be finally happy that they're out of
S3: the system, because then we can see really what's going
S3: on in terms of the energy market, whether there really
S3: is a reduction in price pressures across that area, and
S3: there won't be that sort of money going back into
S3: the economy. Like the opposition says, it's fuel excise is deflationary.
S3: It yes, it reduces the inflation rate, but it's still
S3: pumping $7.5 billion into the economy. At the same time,
S3: my economics training is that would be inflationary. That's what
S3: the reserve Bank also would be believing as well.
S2: Very interesting times, isn't it? Um, we spoke about how
S2: older Australians make up the majority of voters last time
S2: we spoke. Do you think they've been a part of
S2: this campaign at all? Do you think there has been
S2: anything beyond lip service paid to older generations, or is
S2: this is this really targeting the young people and their
S2: cost of living?
S3: Um, well, cost of living is important to older Australians,
S3: but ultimately, like, we're really at that crux where the
S3: Gen Z and millennials are around the same size of
S3: voting bloc Look as, um, boomers and Xers. We're we're
S3: on that cusp right at the moment. Um, in terms
S3: of like the you can see like both sides have
S3: really embraced the government's urgent care clinics.
S2: Yeah.
S3: Now, we know older Australians use the health system more
S3: than younger people. And that is and they portray it
S3: as such. Like this is helping you like. Yes, it
S3: helps the mother who's got a kid who's done something
S3: silly to their hand or their foot or whatever, because
S3: children are great at that. Yeah, but it's also aimed
S3: at older Australians who really. Yeah, chronically who need that
S3: health service. So in that space and yeah, that's both
S3: sides have been really promising a lot in that that space.
S2: In Medicare space. And it's good to see because it's
S2: been hard to hard to maintain health services in, you know,
S2: and stay stay healthy if you can't access a doctor
S2: at the right price.
S3: That's right. But ultimately, like the older Australians, they've been
S3: more peripheral to this election than in past ones. Like
S3: if you go back, John Howard in oh seven was
S3: promising like like billions of dollars in a straight out
S3: handout to people on the aged pension, like.
S2: Tax cuts don't hit the hip pocket of the retiree. Right.
S2: That's right. You're very much nobody talks about that in
S2: the media. But but that's the reality is if you
S2: get a tax cut you don't you're not paying tax.
S2: If you've got the retirement based super fund on tap. No.
S3: That's right. And like the opposition has really pushed into
S3: the change that the government has been pushing for the
S3: best part of three years, which is the the tax
S3: arrangements on people with superannuation balances of more than $3 billion,
S3: 3 billion, $3 million. Like that is still a very
S3: small proportion. But they're not young people who have $3 million. No.
S3: And this is where the where the rhetoric has really
S3: pushed into, oh, this is in inheritance text. Peter Dutton
S3: has used that in the last couple of days. So
S3: that's really aimed at older voters more probably his base
S3: higher income.
S2: Do you think the libs will block that?
S3: Yeah. That's their plan.
S2: That's their plan.
S3: Part of their saving is they cost out blocking that,
S3: not going ahead with that change because it costs money
S3: not to go ahead with that change.
S2: And talking to people out there, the biggest fear around
S2: that one from the mass market is that that's not indexed.
S3: Yeah, it's not indexed. But at a government will index it. Yeah,
S3: it will absolutely get indexed.
S2: Because, you know, an average young person today, millennial coming
S2: through that has 30 years of super will compound their
S2: way to $2 million balances. Yeah. Before they retire easily.
S3: Yeah. They'll still be short of the 3 million. But
S3: you can see like even the government's own numbers, you
S3: can see how it picks up. But their argument is one,
S3: we've got to put the policy in place. Okay. But two,
S3: to they would know in their own heads. A future
S3: government will index that, otherwise they will have angry retirees
S3: with a lot of money in their super saying, what
S3: the hell are you doing to us? But ultimately, once
S3: you're in that superannuation space, there are huge concessions going on.
S3: Everyone says, that's my money. Absolutely. But you're being forced
S3: to put in being putting away your money into that
S3: and you're getting a huge tax concession to do it. Yeah.
S3: So that's the trade off in that space.
S2: Now talk to me about one issue that I've heard
S2: very little about. And I would really like to have
S2: heard more about. And that's deeming rates on the aged pension.
S2: I thought I heard something in the budget that the
S2: Labour government was going to maintain the freeze. But then
S2: I've heard in the last week that they weren't. What's
S2: the truth of this?
S3: There's no truth to them. Like there was a this
S3: is being put out like these are parts of the
S3: subterranean campaign.
S2: Things, people. Yeah, but it's a significant number of people
S2: that operate off the income test.
S3: Oh, yeah.
S2: In Australia.
S3: The argument that the government, like there wasn't there was
S3: a thought that maybe because the deeming rate should be changed,
S3: it is actually too low.
S2: It's very low. It's very low, but it will impact.
S2: There's about 450,000 people that will be hurt who are
S2: retired and reliant on the aged pension, who will lose
S2: a good chunk of their pension. Yeah. If if that
S2: number moves.
S3: Yeah, but I'm putting them on my budget hard hat
S3: right now. I'm going to assume the deeming rate was
S3: at 0.25% at the moment. If you are getting if
S3: you were only getting 0.25.
S2: And 2.25.
S3: And 2.25, if you're getting that when the cash rate
S3: is at 4.1.
S2: So where do you think it will go to? Because
S2: we're going to see that by 30th June. So, you know,
S2: I've got a book going to print and I need
S2: to change, change the numbers in it.
S3: The Prime Minister got asked this and he said no change.
S3: He got he he he got asked that question. He
S3: got asked that question. He knew the numbers on the
S3: deeming rate. So he knew that this issue is in
S3: the ether with people because.
S2: So you think there'll be no change this year?
S3: I don't think they'll change this year. It needs to change.
S2: Yeah.
S3: Because ultimately it's it's not it's actually not true. The
S3: deeming rate at the moment is not true.
S2: No. It means everybody's getting an incredible discount on their
S2: Commonwealth seniors health card and their, their pension. And it's
S2: great for for retirees. Right I love it the rate
S2: at this level and I I'm watching for it. And
S2: a lot of people don't know what the deeming rate is.
S2: If you're if you're on the aged pension using the
S2: income test, you'll know. But you may not realize it's
S2: a it's a hot button for July June 30th.
S3: Yeah. But if I but I'm thinking about taxpayers and
S3: future taxpayers. No, it's a bad deal right at the
S3: moment because.
S2: Like, I'm thinking about real people.
S3: That's right. The deeming rate never used to be such
S3: a political hotbed. Yeah, up until we got into Covid,
S3: where it was changed and that made sense because cash
S3: rate collapsed, share markets really fell away. Um, and but
S3: then it became this political thing saying, oh, hold on.
S3: The it should have been changed in the, in the
S3: 2022 budget. It wasn't it should have been changed in
S3: Jim Chalmers first budget. It wasn't. They've just let it
S3: go because they now go, oh God, if we change it,
S3: the politics of it is terrible for us.
S2: And yet, I have heard in the last week that
S2: it might get changed by both parties because. So I'm
S2: watching this one going, is anyone going to speak and
S2: are we just going to get a notification three days
S2: after the election that it's going up? Yeah.
S3: It wasn't in either costings of of the major parties.
S2: Okay. That's good to know. Yeah I'm glad you're reading
S2: below the below the line. Let's talk about the overarching
S2: Australian economy as we head into this election. What's the
S2: biggest risk that the next government will inherit?
S3: Two words Donald Trump. He's by far the biggest risk. Yeah,
S3: he's by far the biggest risk. Um, which, because of
S3: what he's doing. What how it affects China. That's an issue.
S3: Whether he has unleashed, uh, a whole new world of
S3: higher tariffs around the world, gumming up the way that
S3: we move goods and services and people around the world. Like,
S3: people complain about neo liberalism and globalization, but the world
S3: has got to a point where we have the fewest
S3: number of people in poverty as a share of the
S3: population in history. It has been good. Yes, we feel
S3: it's tough sometimes, but that's been the benefit of the last,
S3: like the last 60, 70 years of increased linkages between
S3: countries around the world economically. Donald Trump is trying to
S3: upend that. Go for it. But it comes at a
S3: huge cost. And that remains the by far the biggest
S3: single risk to every economy, not just either Anthony Albanese
S3: or Peter Dutton.
S2: And which government do you think is most experienced to
S2: be able to cope with that or able better positioned?
S2: Is there any real?
S3: I think you're almost like a bottle in the ocean,
S3: like you're bobbing around like we are a middle power.
S3: What are we? The 12th largest economy in the world? Um,
S3: but ultimately, in this case, like Donald Trump is part
S3: of the problem with Donald Trump is that he he
S3: listens or deals with the the person he most recently
S3: listened to. That's his idea. And off he goes. And
S3: there's no rationale. He he's not he just doesn't understand
S3: how the economy works. He looks at it as a
S3: win lose mercantilist approach, which was great in the 17th century.
S3: Not in the 21st.
S2: Interesting times, isn't it? All right, so we're we're, uh.
S2: We're at the end. For someone undecided, what's the one
S2: economic issue you'd like to see them weighing up most
S2: heavily before they cast their vote?
S3: Uh, I should say productivity. But most people, they fall asleep,
S3: and you use.
S2: I think productivity is so important.
S3: It's very important. But trying to find the policies that
S3: improve productivity. Good luck with that. Absolutely. Good luck.
S2: Does it does it impact things like trade unions and
S2: construction and all these things that we see? Well, I'm
S2: up in Queensland and we've seen a lot of that
S2: grind to a halt.
S3: Yeah we do, but this is me being nerdy.
S2: The the I love nerdy.
S3: The Productivity Commission, about 6 or 7 weeks ago released
S3: a report on construction sector productivity and said it has fallen. Absolutely.
S3: But Australia's productivity in construction has not fallen by as
S3: much as the United States, as Britain, as Spain, as
S3: other parts of Europe. And part of it is people
S3: like think of the think of your splashback if you're
S3: building a new home. Okay, I go back 15 years ago,
S3: just plain old white tiles. Now people are demanding really
S3: upmarket levels of finishes to their their homes. That is
S3: coming at a cost in terms of productivity. So the
S3: homes that we are building, they are different to what
S3: we were building even ten, 15 years ago. And this
S3: is a global issue that that demand for a better
S3: quality is feeding into lower productivity.
S2: Where else are the productivity problems?
S3: Um, the we've seen like Covid blew that out as
S3: we saw like because of the the global supply chains,
S3: we are requiring more stuff to come in.
S2: So where are the ones we can control? Where is
S2: the productivity we can actually impact?
S3: Well this is it. Like this. Again the PC report
S3: actually pointed out part of the problem is that our
S3: building construction sector is just filled with really like mum
S3: and dad and son or mum and dad businesses, and
S3: they are never going to they don't drive productivity as
S3: much as people say. Small business is the saviour. It
S3: is not they. They don't have the ability or the
S3: scale to really improve productivity by like the the big
S3: hope is for, say us off site construction, like where
S3: you build modular, modular and stuff like that. Like the
S3: the during the campaign, someone actually visited a place out
S3: in Perth where they're using machines to build homes almost
S3: within a day, just laying bricks. That's that is not
S3: something a, like a team of bricklayers are going to do,
S3: for instance, that requires what we call capital deepening spending money,
S3: investing in new tech to make things more productive. But
S3: that's just construction part of the issue. We're trying to
S3: measure productivity in a world where 70 to 80% of
S3: the economy is services, and trying to improve productivity in
S3: the service sector is notoriously difficult and notoriously difficult to measure.
S3: Like we are living longer that. So that's a factor
S3: of the health system. But that is not a productivity
S3: that doesn't come up as productivity.
S2: So where do we vote for that? How do we
S2: vote for that?
S3: No I know. No I don't know if we can
S3: vote for it, but we can demand it.
S2: Well, what else you got to leave me with? One
S2: one issue people can vote for when they're when they're
S2: out there thinking about the economy. If we all want
S2: to fix the economy. What could we what could we
S2: vote for?
S3: Yeah, we'd only you would look at either the policies
S3: that you think are the best in terms of inflation
S3: or wages growth.
S2: Yeah.
S3: That's that's all policies that like I'm never going to
S3: tell someone how to vote because.
S2: No, none of us.
S3: Are so many different ways that people like.
S2: I just like to weigh up the smart stuff, you know?
S2: And you're you're the nerd. We get to speak to this.
S2: You tell us.
S3: This is about the 11th election campaign I've been on,
S3: like I spent a week with with Albanese, for instance. Um,
S3: and we were I still remember we were in at
S3: the seat of Deakin down in Melbourne, whereby this is
S3: trying to get, um, like there'd been a house there
S3: in this particular, this little cul de sac of a
S3: house that had been affected. It was at the end
S3: of its life. So social housing is going in there.
S3: They're building two fairly quickly, two homes on the same block,
S3: which would suit a single parent. Okay. They're doing it
S3: relatively quickly, but ultimately that's better land use, which again,
S3: comes into productivity. And the fact that our housing sector
S3: is just a mess as well. Just where we build,
S3: how many people we're building. We've just we've fallen so
S3: far behind. That's another podcast that'll go for 5 or
S3: 6 days about problems in the housing sector. But that
S3: is a that is an example of where government policy
S3: is actually doing something. And it's it's a cul de
S3: sac at a time. Like it's really difficult to measure.
S3: But you can see ultimately in the next like that,
S3: that site will be finished within the next three months.
S3: There'll be there'll be two small families living in there,
S3: in one in a site that there used to be
S3: just one in a house that couldn't be lived in anymore.
S3: So that that's.
S2: The speed we've got to operate at to fix these problems,
S2: isn't it? It's frightening. And and both parties have got
S2: to do that stuff.
S3: They do absolutely have to both get into that space. Yeah.
S2: Um, Shane, we're not going to tell anyone how to vote.
S2: Any last tips for people as they're heading to the polls?
S3: Get a sausage, get a sausage or or find something sweet.
S3: Whatever you like.
S2: We'll let you go back to the newsroom so that
S2: you can keep the news flowing to us for the
S2: next two days. We greatly appreciate you taking time out
S2: to come on the show.
S3: No troubles. Beck, have a good day.
S2: You too. Thank you for listening to Prime Time. Shane.
S2: Thank you for being such a wealth of knowledge. We
S2: hope this has given everyone some last minute ideas to
S2: take in as they approach the polls tomorrow. I'd love
S2: to hear from prime timers in an email. If you've
S2: got thoughts on what's going on out there and what
S2: should be important to everyone, please drop me a message.
S2: And don't forget to rate, review and follow us on
S2: your podcast platform and subscribe to our newsletter at Prime Timers. Net.
S2: My name is Beck Wilson. Stay tuned for our next
S2: episode and in the meantime, make your prime time count.