1 00:00:06,880 --> 00:00:11,160 S1: Allegations of cheating and sporting corruption have followed the revelation 2 00:00:11,160 --> 00:00:14,920 S1: that Donald Trump intervened in the World Cup to overturn 3 00:00:14,920 --> 00:00:19,279 S1: the suspension of an American player. But the ramifications of 4 00:00:19,280 --> 00:00:25,160 S1: this unprecedented event might far outlast the cup. I'm Samantha 5 00:00:25,160 --> 00:00:28,240 S1: Selinger Morris, and you're listening to The Morning Edition from 6 00:00:28,240 --> 00:00:32,400 S1: The Age and the Sydney Morning Herald. Today, Sydney Morning 7 00:00:32,400 --> 00:00:37,000 S1: Herald deputy editor Nick Ralston and North America correspondent Michael 8 00:00:37,000 --> 00:00:41,680 S1: Koziol on the worldwide cheers against the USA that followed 9 00:00:41,680 --> 00:00:51,600 S1: this intervention. And if it marks a nadir for Trump supporters. Welcome, 10 00:00:51,600 --> 00:00:53,440 S1: Nick and Michael to the podcast. 11 00:00:53,479 --> 00:00:54,280 S2: Good to be here. 12 00:00:54,560 --> 00:00:55,520 S3: Thanks, Samantha. 13 00:00:55,880 --> 00:00:58,280 S1: Okay, so I don't know why I'm surprised that Donald 14 00:00:58,320 --> 00:01:02,450 S1: Trump has yet again intervened in a pretty remarkable way 15 00:01:02,450 --> 00:01:05,449 S1: on the world stage. And yet here, of course we are. So, Nick, 16 00:01:05,450 --> 00:01:09,170 S1: let's start with you. What happened with the American president 17 00:01:09,170 --> 00:01:11,970 S1: and this red card incident at the World Cup? 18 00:01:12,530 --> 00:01:14,770 S2: Yeah. So the US had been having something of a 19 00:01:14,770 --> 00:01:18,170 S2: successful World Cup. They obviously one of the three co-hosts 20 00:01:18,209 --> 00:01:21,290 S2: a lot of pressure and expectation on them. But they 21 00:01:21,290 --> 00:01:23,770 S2: had performed reasonably well. They had that um well that 22 00:01:23,770 --> 00:01:27,090 S2: unfortunate uh two nil win over the Socceroos. They got 23 00:01:27,090 --> 00:01:29,450 S2: through the group stage. They did lose to Turkey but 24 00:01:29,450 --> 00:01:32,130 S2: did it reasonably easily. And what was a competitive group? 25 00:01:32,530 --> 00:01:37,369 S2: They played their first knockout round of 32 game against Bosnia. Uh, 26 00:01:37,370 --> 00:01:39,690 S2: and they were sort of cruising in that as well. Uh, 27 00:01:39,690 --> 00:01:42,930 S2: Florian Bellingham who's been something of a sort of a 28 00:01:42,930 --> 00:01:46,890 S2: standout for the US team, scored one uh, had one disallowed, 29 00:01:46,890 --> 00:01:49,850 S2: but then in the 61st minute got into a bit 30 00:01:49,850 --> 00:01:53,770 S2: of a tangle with a Bosnian defender, uh, landed awkwardly 31 00:01:53,970 --> 00:01:56,370 S2: sort of on the back of his, uh, leg towards 32 00:01:56,370 --> 00:01:59,890 S2: his ankle. The referee took a look and gave him 33 00:01:59,890 --> 00:02:03,050 S2: a red card. Uh, I was sent off. There wasn't. 34 00:02:03,090 --> 00:02:05,050 S2: There was in the US media after that about how 35 00:02:05,050 --> 00:02:08,370 S2: there was sort of no real, uh, avenue for the 36 00:02:08,370 --> 00:02:11,210 S2: US to appeal this decision, and it looked as if 37 00:02:11,210 --> 00:02:13,649 S2: the US would go into their next round of 16 38 00:02:13,650 --> 00:02:18,010 S2: knockout game against Belgium without their, their star attacker. And then, uh, 39 00:02:18,050 --> 00:02:20,690 S2: sort of somewhat out of nowhere, uh, we got this 40 00:02:20,730 --> 00:02:24,210 S2: sort of, uh, breaking news came to our phones saying that, uh, 41 00:02:24,210 --> 00:02:27,210 S2: Malagon would be able to play against Belgium. And, uh, 42 00:02:27,210 --> 00:02:30,290 S2: Donald Trump was very quick to sort of congratulate and 43 00:02:30,290 --> 00:02:33,169 S2: thank FIFA for doing so, which I think, uh, got 44 00:02:33,169 --> 00:02:34,970 S2: everyone's sort of suspicions up. 45 00:02:35,450 --> 00:02:38,050 S1: Absolutely. I mean, I've heard people refer to this as 46 00:02:38,050 --> 00:02:41,210 S1: a presidential pardon in terms of his sway in getting 47 00:02:41,210 --> 00:02:44,810 S1: this red card overturned. But, Michael, I think it's fair 48 00:02:44,810 --> 00:02:46,889 S1: to say there's a lot more to it than just 49 00:02:46,889 --> 00:02:50,090 S1: Trump's intervention. Right. So tell us, I guess, about how 50 00:02:50,090 --> 00:02:53,370 S1: big of a governmental effort was this to get the 51 00:02:53,370 --> 00:02:54,530 S1: red card overturned? 52 00:02:55,290 --> 00:02:59,050 S3: It was a full court press. Uh, so Andrew Giuliani, 53 00:02:59,250 --> 00:03:01,660 S3: who was the guy that Donald Trump put in charge 54 00:03:01,660 --> 00:03:05,180 S3: of the white House World Cup task force. He's the 55 00:03:05,180 --> 00:03:09,260 S3: son of former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani, also a 56 00:03:09,500 --> 00:03:13,180 S3: Trump acolyte, and used to be one of his lawyers. Anyway, 57 00:03:13,180 --> 00:03:17,180 S3: so Andrew Giuliani, in an interview with ESPN in the 58 00:03:17,180 --> 00:03:20,900 S3: last 24 hours, basically said, look, as soon as we 59 00:03:20,940 --> 00:03:25,060 S3: got on the plane after that Bosnia game, we were 60 00:03:25,220 --> 00:03:28,299 S3: on the phone to lawyers contacting lawyers, trying to work 61 00:03:28,300 --> 00:03:31,380 S3: out how to appeal this decision. He was on the 62 00:03:31,380 --> 00:03:36,740 S3: plane with Howard Lutnick, Donald Trump's commerce secretary, another well-connected guy, 63 00:03:36,740 --> 00:03:41,020 S3: another billionaire. So they were contacting lawyers. Other people got involved. 64 00:03:41,020 --> 00:03:43,060 S3: The New York Times has done some reporting about a 65 00:03:43,060 --> 00:03:47,540 S3: guy called Scott Goodwin, uh, another rich guy, hedge fund manager, 66 00:03:47,580 --> 00:03:50,780 S3: big soccer donor here in the US. Um, and he's 67 00:03:50,780 --> 00:03:53,100 S3: the guy, apparently, according to the New York Times who 68 00:03:53,100 --> 00:03:58,500 S3: brought to the White House's attention, um, these former accusations, 69 00:03:58,500 --> 00:04:03,309 S3: old accusations against the referee in that US Bosnia game. Raphael, 70 00:04:03,310 --> 00:04:05,750 S3: Klaus and Trump had something about to say about that 71 00:04:05,750 --> 00:04:08,230 S3: today during his little Q and A in the white 72 00:04:08,230 --> 00:04:11,350 S3: House basically saying, you know, this guy's very suspect. 73 00:04:12,430 --> 00:04:19,470 S4: And this referee who is a little bit suspect if 74 00:04:19,470 --> 00:04:22,630 S4: you check his if you check his past. I don't 75 00:04:22,630 --> 00:04:25,710 S4: want to say that because I don't like to create controversy, 76 00:04:26,230 --> 00:04:28,190 S4: but but very suspect. 77 00:04:28,670 --> 00:04:32,270 S3: Of course, those allegations were were not were not upheld. 78 00:04:32,270 --> 00:04:35,310 S3: In the end, he was cleared, but Trump brought it 79 00:04:35,310 --> 00:04:39,909 S3: up anyway. So there was a big effort, lots across government, 80 00:04:39,910 --> 00:04:42,630 S3: lots of people involved. And, you know, to be fair, 81 00:04:42,990 --> 00:04:46,270 S3: the US soccer team is allowed to appeal this decision. 82 00:04:46,270 --> 00:04:48,990 S3: They're allowed to put their case to FIFA. But it 83 00:04:48,990 --> 00:04:50,989 S3: seems in this case, they got a lot of help 84 00:04:50,990 --> 00:04:53,869 S3: from people throughout the government, including obviously, as we've spoken 85 00:04:53,870 --> 00:04:56,630 S3: about from the very, very top of the US government 86 00:04:56,630 --> 00:04:59,550 S3: in Donald Trump. And that is extremely unusual. 87 00:04:59,630 --> 00:05:01,390 S4: How do you penalize them for a game that hasn't 88 00:05:01,390 --> 00:05:03,400 S4: been played yet. It's very unfair. You can't do that. 89 00:05:03,400 --> 00:05:08,920 S4: So yes, I asked for a review by FIFA. I 90 00:05:08,920 --> 00:05:11,719 S4: spoke to a man who's highly respected and by the way, 91 00:05:11,720 --> 00:05:16,480 S4: who's level of respect has gone up tenfold. And he 92 00:05:16,480 --> 00:05:19,200 S4: was good before this started. But, you know, he really 93 00:05:19,200 --> 00:05:21,680 S4: pushed it in this country. I'm the one that got 94 00:05:21,680 --> 00:05:22,479 S4: them to do it. 95 00:05:27,960 --> 00:05:29,560 S1: And so, Nick, I want to turn to you because, 96 00:05:29,600 --> 00:05:32,279 S1: of course, the end result was that Balogun was allowed 97 00:05:32,279 --> 00:05:35,160 S1: to play in this match against Belgium, which kicked off 98 00:05:35,160 --> 00:05:38,400 S1: on Tuesday morning. Our time. So how much of a part, 99 00:05:38,400 --> 00:05:42,160 S1: I guess, did Donald Trump's intervention play in him actually 100 00:05:42,160 --> 00:05:43,159 S1: playing this match? 101 00:05:43,640 --> 00:05:46,400 S2: Look, I think everything indicates that Trump's intervention played a 102 00:05:46,400 --> 00:05:48,920 S2: major role in him being able to play. But I 103 00:05:48,920 --> 00:05:52,120 S2: think probably FIFA has been saved by the Belgian football team. 104 00:05:52,360 --> 00:05:54,520 S2: Belgium winning four one means the US are out of 105 00:05:54,520 --> 00:05:56,560 S2: the tournament. And look, I don't think it ends the 106 00:05:56,560 --> 00:05:58,440 S2: discussion there. I think that there will be a lot 107 00:05:58,440 --> 00:06:00,560 S2: more of this still to play out. We've had some 108 00:06:00,560 --> 00:06:04,800 S2: pretty senior figures within the game, including UEFA, which is 109 00:06:04,800 --> 00:06:08,640 S2: the European body that oversees football there. Thomas Tuchel, the 110 00:06:08,640 --> 00:06:11,600 S2: coach of England, pretty much any other sort of big 111 00:06:11,600 --> 00:06:15,000 S2: name manager who's given a press conference since this decision 112 00:06:15,000 --> 00:06:17,520 S2: has been made, has come out and spoken out against it. 113 00:06:17,520 --> 00:06:21,279 S2: So in some ways, probably the integrity of the tournament 114 00:06:21,279 --> 00:06:24,000 S2: has been saved by Belgium beating the US four one. 115 00:06:24,040 --> 00:06:27,160 S2: Balogun did play. He didn't play very well. Uh, the 116 00:06:27,160 --> 00:06:30,760 S2: US didn't play very well. So I think it's you know, 117 00:06:30,800 --> 00:06:32,919 S2: the US was already sort of I guess on many 118 00:06:32,920 --> 00:06:35,600 S2: Australian soccer fans, uh, enemy list. Uh, there was a 119 00:06:35,600 --> 00:06:38,000 S2: lot of tension and build up between Australia and the 120 00:06:38,000 --> 00:06:40,680 S2: Socceroos for that clash in Seattle. So I don't know 121 00:06:40,680 --> 00:06:44,360 S2: if there'll be too many sympathetic Australian soccer fans with 122 00:06:44,360 --> 00:06:46,200 S2: how this has played out for the US, but I 123 00:06:46,200 --> 00:06:48,719 S2: think that this has definitely overshadowed their performance. And I 124 00:06:48,720 --> 00:06:51,799 S2: don't know if there was many, if any, neutral soccer 125 00:06:51,839 --> 00:06:54,480 S2: fans that would have been, uh, on the US side today. 126 00:06:54,480 --> 00:06:57,840 S2: So look, it's all come to nothing really, except that 127 00:06:57,839 --> 00:07:01,279 S2: it put FIFA's integrity under spotlight and the influence of 128 00:07:01,279 --> 00:07:03,490 S2: Trump on forefront and the spotlight as well. 129 00:07:03,770 --> 00:07:06,170 S1: And just to play devil's advocate for just a moment, Nick, 130 00:07:06,210 --> 00:07:08,849 S1: I mean, is there any chance that Trump actually did 131 00:07:08,850 --> 00:07:10,690 S1: have a case. Is there a case to be made 132 00:07:10,690 --> 00:07:13,730 S1: that the referee did err in issuing Balogun with a 133 00:07:13,730 --> 00:07:17,650 S1: red card? Because I certainly have seen sport commentators, some 134 00:07:17,650 --> 00:07:19,810 S1: of them saying that he thought the ref made the 135 00:07:19,810 --> 00:07:22,850 S1: wrong decision. Although my understanding is within the world of FIFA, 136 00:07:23,290 --> 00:07:26,170 S1: there's an understanding it's subjective and that if the ref 137 00:07:26,170 --> 00:07:28,850 S1: calls a red card, it's stood by and that you 138 00:07:28,850 --> 00:07:31,370 S1: don't appeal it. Obviously that's not what happened in this case. 139 00:07:31,370 --> 00:07:32,810 S1: But does Trump have a case? 140 00:07:33,290 --> 00:07:36,890 S2: Well, look, there's been 13 red cards this World Cup 141 00:07:37,250 --> 00:07:40,210 S2: which is quite a lot by tournament standards. This is 142 00:07:40,210 --> 00:07:43,410 S2: the only one that people are talking about. It doesn't 143 00:07:43,410 --> 00:07:45,130 S2: really matter at the end of the day, if it's 144 00:07:45,130 --> 00:07:47,650 S2: a red card, it's a red card. You know, the 145 00:07:47,650 --> 00:07:50,690 S2: video VAR were the one that sort of awarded it. 146 00:07:50,690 --> 00:07:53,330 S2: Decisions made, and you sort of have to accept that decision. 147 00:07:53,330 --> 00:07:59,610 S2: Football's built on discussion and controversy around decisions like this. 148 00:07:59,850 --> 00:08:01,530 S2: And I think that if you're going to have instances 149 00:08:01,530 --> 00:08:03,060 S2: like this, I this. I think it's the first time 150 00:08:03,060 --> 00:08:06,540 S2: since 1962 that a red card has ever been suspended 151 00:08:06,540 --> 00:08:08,820 S2: like this. And like I said, there's been 13 this tournament. 152 00:08:08,820 --> 00:08:12,820 S2: There's probably cases where also question marks have been put on, on, 153 00:08:12,820 --> 00:08:15,180 S2: on some of those, the other 12. But I think 154 00:08:15,180 --> 00:08:17,420 S2: once the red cards given, then that's sort of the 155 00:08:17,420 --> 00:08:20,940 S2: the final decision, the one game suspension should have stood and, uh, 156 00:08:20,940 --> 00:08:23,860 S2: and it should never have happened. I think everyone was 157 00:08:23,900 --> 00:08:27,060 S2: sort of, you know, totally blown away by what, what 158 00:08:27,060 --> 00:08:29,300 S2: has gone on here. And, and Trump picking up the 159 00:08:29,300 --> 00:08:33,500 S2: phone to, uh, Gianni Infantino, the president of FIFA, have 160 00:08:33,500 --> 00:08:36,340 S2: not heard of this happening, uh, ever before. And, uh, 161 00:08:36,340 --> 00:08:38,940 S2: it's hard to imagine that it would happen, uh, possibly 162 00:08:38,940 --> 00:08:41,820 S2: with any other two people except for, for Trump and 163 00:08:41,820 --> 00:08:44,940 S2: his mate Gianni, Gianni Infantino. And it sort of goes 164 00:08:44,940 --> 00:08:48,100 S2: to this, I guess, feeling that the Americans, you know, 165 00:08:48,179 --> 00:08:50,740 S2: aren't a serious, uh, football or soccer nation and don't 166 00:08:50,740 --> 00:08:53,140 S2: understand how the sport works. Uh, which has sort of 167 00:08:53,179 --> 00:08:56,340 S2: been a bit of an undercurrent, a bit of Euro, uh, snobbery, 168 00:08:56,340 --> 00:09:00,100 S2: possibly towards North American soccer fans. I think there's sort 169 00:09:00,100 --> 00:09:03,460 S2: of a, a feeling that the Americans don't understand how 170 00:09:03,460 --> 00:09:05,740 S2: the game properly works. And this is not this is 171 00:09:05,740 --> 00:09:06,980 S2: not the done thing in football. 172 00:09:09,220 --> 00:09:10,180 S1: After the break. 173 00:09:10,900 --> 00:09:13,100 S3: If you liked him, you think he did a great 174 00:09:13,100 --> 00:09:15,620 S3: thing standing up for his country and going into bat 175 00:09:15,620 --> 00:09:18,860 S3: for one of his countrymen. And if you don't like Trump, 176 00:09:18,860 --> 00:09:21,900 S3: you think that he's, um, you know, embarrassed the country 177 00:09:21,900 --> 00:09:23,940 S3: on the world stage yet again. 178 00:09:31,059 --> 00:09:34,579 S5: Virginia Giuffre helped vanquish a prince and a millionaire. 179 00:09:34,900 --> 00:09:37,340 S6: And I won't stop fighting. I will never be silenced. 180 00:09:38,020 --> 00:09:40,860 S5: But one of her toughest battles was a very private one. 181 00:09:41,580 --> 00:09:43,980 S7: It was the worst thing that could have happened to her. 182 00:09:44,020 --> 00:09:47,179 S7: Her children were her life. 183 00:09:48,260 --> 00:09:52,060 S5: Virginia, a podcast from the newsrooms of The age, The 184 00:09:52,059 --> 00:09:55,580 S5: Sydney Morning Herald and WA today. Coming soon. 185 00:09:59,780 --> 00:10:01,620 S1: So, Michael, I just want to turn to you now 186 00:10:01,620 --> 00:10:04,069 S1: because we've talked a little bit about in this conversation 187 00:10:04,070 --> 00:10:06,910 S1: about how there's probably not many Australian fans that are 188 00:10:06,910 --> 00:10:10,270 S1: going to be mourning what's happened here and whether this 189 00:10:10,309 --> 00:10:13,110 S1: sort of, I guess, continues on this controversy lives on, 190 00:10:13,110 --> 00:10:15,870 S1: even though, of course, America has lost the match, might, 191 00:10:15,870 --> 00:10:20,790 S1: for instance, this prevailing anti-U.S. sentiment that's resulted from Trump's 192 00:10:20,790 --> 00:10:24,109 S1: intervention like, could that cost Trump politically? 193 00:10:24,950 --> 00:10:29,190 S3: Oh, I don't think so. I mean, I think in 194 00:10:29,190 --> 00:10:33,190 S3: the US, opinion is has been settled on Trump for 195 00:10:33,190 --> 00:10:36,230 S3: a very long time, probably for about ten years. Um, 196 00:10:36,230 --> 00:10:38,670 S3: and there's very few things that kind of move the 197 00:10:38,670 --> 00:10:42,070 S3: dial on him personally among Americans. I mean, you know, 198 00:10:42,110 --> 00:10:44,270 S3: if you like Trump, you think he did a great 199 00:10:44,270 --> 00:10:46,790 S3: thing standing up for his country and going into bat 200 00:10:46,790 --> 00:10:49,910 S3: for one of his countrymen and, you know, for the 201 00:10:49,910 --> 00:10:52,429 S3: the hope of Assad. Um, and if you don't like Trump, 202 00:10:52,470 --> 00:10:55,510 S3: you think that he's, um, you know, embarrassed the country 203 00:10:55,510 --> 00:10:58,550 S3: on the world stage yet again. And, um, you know, 204 00:10:58,590 --> 00:11:00,270 S3: I mean, there are some people that talk about Trump 205 00:11:00,270 --> 00:11:03,160 S3: curse when it comes to sport, mainly to do with 206 00:11:03,160 --> 00:11:06,320 S3: the Kansas City Chiefs in the NFL who, whenever Trump 207 00:11:06,320 --> 00:11:10,480 S3: gets involved, seem to start losing. But, um. Uh, yeah, look, 208 00:11:10,520 --> 00:11:13,120 S3: I mean, I, you know, I think people who believe 209 00:11:13,120 --> 00:11:15,360 S3: that Donald Trump has brought the US into disrepute around 210 00:11:15,360 --> 00:11:17,600 S3: the world have thought that for a long time. So 211 00:11:17,640 --> 00:11:21,600 S3: I don't necessarily see any political consequences for him. I mean, 212 00:11:21,640 --> 00:11:26,600 S3: in terms of ongoing consequences in the tournament itself, there's 213 00:11:26,600 --> 00:11:30,040 S3: an English player who got a red card in their 214 00:11:30,040 --> 00:11:32,440 S3: match last night against Mexico, and I don't know if 215 00:11:32,440 --> 00:11:36,040 S3: anything's come of that in the last couple of hours, but, uh, England, 216 00:11:36,400 --> 00:11:39,520 S3: British politicians are now saying, well, we need to challenge 217 00:11:39,640 --> 00:11:43,720 S3: this red card ahead of England's next match. So, you know, 218 00:11:44,080 --> 00:11:46,720 S3: all red cards are now kind of up in the air. Why? 219 00:11:46,720 --> 00:11:49,160 S3: Why don't we put a challenge forth and see what 220 00:11:49,160 --> 00:11:50,840 S3: we can get, uh, see if we can get the 221 00:11:50,840 --> 00:11:54,600 S3: suspension overturned. And who knows what could happen in the next, 222 00:11:54,640 --> 00:11:57,480 S3: you know, week, week or two down the pointy end 223 00:11:57,480 --> 00:11:59,800 S3: of the tournament. So, yes, I mean, you know, there 224 00:11:59,800 --> 00:12:02,000 S3: could be flow on effects within the World Cup itself. 225 00:12:02,570 --> 00:12:04,329 S1: And Mike and Nick. Just to wrap up, I'll throw 226 00:12:04,330 --> 00:12:06,650 S1: this last question to both of you. I'm just wondering 227 00:12:06,809 --> 00:12:09,090 S1: if you could reflect, I guess, on just how this 228 00:12:09,090 --> 00:12:12,250 S1: story has blown up, because of course, we've seen allegations 229 00:12:12,250 --> 00:12:15,610 S1: of sporting corruption and that the integrity of this particular 230 00:12:16,010 --> 00:12:20,610 S1: World Cup has been absolutely harmed by this incident. But 231 00:12:20,610 --> 00:12:23,290 S1: I'm just wondering, I guess, about political reflections on this. 232 00:12:23,330 --> 00:12:27,970 S1: You know, is this yet another example of this American president, 233 00:12:28,010 --> 00:12:31,050 S1: I guess, wielding his power in ways that are unprecedented 234 00:12:31,050 --> 00:12:33,730 S1: in American presidency? I mean, do you think this is 235 00:12:33,730 --> 00:12:36,130 S1: how people are feeling it? I don't know if you've 236 00:12:36,130 --> 00:12:37,970 S1: been noticing that on the ground, Nick, you were just 237 00:12:37,970 --> 00:12:42,010 S1: covering the World Cup in America and elsewhere. And Michael, 238 00:12:42,010 --> 00:12:44,050 S1: you of course, are in Washington now, but you were 239 00:12:44,050 --> 00:12:46,650 S1: at the match, I believe in Seattle. Like what what 240 00:12:46,650 --> 00:12:47,610 S1: are people feeling? 241 00:12:48,250 --> 00:12:50,610 S2: Look, there was a lot of concerns going into this 242 00:12:50,610 --> 00:12:54,290 S2: World Cup about certain issues. I think about how some 243 00:12:54,290 --> 00:12:56,330 S2: countries would be treated. We saw a lot of talk about, 244 00:12:56,370 --> 00:12:59,050 S2: you know, the Iranian football team and what they've had 245 00:12:59,050 --> 00:13:02,250 S2: to do. They weren't obviously allowed to stay in America. 246 00:13:02,250 --> 00:13:03,809 S2: They were going to be based in Arizona. They were 247 00:13:03,809 --> 00:13:05,970 S2: forced to go to Mexico and fly in and out. 248 00:13:06,010 --> 00:13:07,450 S2: You know, the day of the match and or the 249 00:13:07,450 --> 00:13:10,970 S2: day after the match, etc.. And I think talking to 250 00:13:10,970 --> 00:13:13,610 S2: people that were over there for the World Cup, I 251 00:13:13,610 --> 00:13:15,689 S2: think it was sort of a bit of an apprehension 252 00:13:15,690 --> 00:13:18,930 S2: before the tournament began, but there wasn't really any sort 253 00:13:18,929 --> 00:13:21,570 S2: of sight or mention of Donald Trump in relation to 254 00:13:21,610 --> 00:13:25,610 S2: the World Cup up until this moment. And look, the 255 00:13:25,610 --> 00:13:28,290 S2: tournament has has not been without its faults. And there 256 00:13:28,290 --> 00:13:30,850 S2: has been, you know, some some controversies and that in 257 00:13:30,890 --> 00:13:34,010 S2: the background. But but by and large, I think fans 258 00:13:34,010 --> 00:13:37,130 S2: were sort of happy that this hadn't become a Donald 259 00:13:37,210 --> 00:13:40,210 S2: Trump circus and that the football was allowed to play out. 260 00:13:40,690 --> 00:13:43,730 S2: That's obviously all changed now in the last sort of 261 00:13:43,770 --> 00:13:47,890 S2: 48 hours or so. But yeah, it's unfortunate. I mean, 262 00:13:47,929 --> 00:13:50,530 S2: you know, they had controversies around the World Cup in 263 00:13:50,570 --> 00:13:53,969 S2: 2018 in Russia in 2022 and Qatar. And I think 264 00:13:54,010 --> 00:13:56,290 S2: when this one was awarded, the North America was sort 265 00:13:56,290 --> 00:13:58,410 S2: of seen as going to be the sort of more 266 00:13:58,410 --> 00:14:02,329 S2: straightforward World Cup and obviously world events, uh, in the 267 00:14:02,330 --> 00:14:04,860 S2: ten years since the US and Mexico and Canada were 268 00:14:04,860 --> 00:14:08,860 S2: awarded the, um, the tournament, uh, considerably. But look, I 269 00:14:08,860 --> 00:14:11,100 S2: think this has left a bit of a sour taste 270 00:14:11,100 --> 00:14:13,660 S2: in people's mouths. And like I said, I think if, uh, 271 00:14:13,860 --> 00:14:16,340 S2: if the US had won today, then, um, I think 272 00:14:16,340 --> 00:14:19,220 S2: it would also be, you know, a real sort of, um, 273 00:14:19,260 --> 00:14:20,900 S2: what would be interesting to see where the, where the 274 00:14:20,900 --> 00:14:24,180 S2: tournament went from there, given all the outrage, especially from 275 00:14:24,180 --> 00:14:27,460 S2: Belgium and UEFA about the decision. So I think in 276 00:14:27,460 --> 00:14:30,580 S2: many ways we're fortunate the US are out of the tournament. 277 00:14:30,580 --> 00:14:32,860 S2: And um, uh, hopefully the rest of it can proceed 278 00:14:32,860 --> 00:14:35,380 S2: without too many other interventions. 279 00:14:35,740 --> 00:14:37,580 S1: And Michael, what about you and what are your reflections 280 00:14:37,580 --> 00:14:38,220 S1: on this? 281 00:14:38,620 --> 00:14:41,540 S3: Well, it was reported a few days ago that, uh, 282 00:14:41,580 --> 00:14:45,220 S3: Donald Trump and possibly JD Vance were going to be 283 00:14:45,260 --> 00:14:49,020 S3: at that game in Seattle that we just watched the, uh, 284 00:14:49,060 --> 00:14:53,260 S3: us and Belgium game. Uh, that obviously didn't come to fruition, but, uh, 285 00:14:53,260 --> 00:14:56,300 S3: it would have been fascinating, uh, if he had attended 286 00:14:56,300 --> 00:14:59,220 S3: to see what reception he would have received. He is still, 287 00:14:59,260 --> 00:15:02,100 S3: as far as we know, um, due to present the 288 00:15:02,100 --> 00:15:06,270 S3: trophy to the winner. Um, up in new Jersey on 289 00:15:06,270 --> 00:15:10,150 S3: what is it, July 18th. So, you know, be interesting 290 00:15:10,150 --> 00:15:13,230 S3: to see what reception he gets then from the two 291 00:15:13,230 --> 00:15:16,150 S3: non USA teams, whoever they turn out to be. I 292 00:15:16,150 --> 00:15:18,990 S3: mean look I think in some ways Donald Trump lifts 293 00:15:18,990 --> 00:15:22,510 S3: the lid on the way the system always has worked. 294 00:15:22,550 --> 00:15:25,870 S3: You know the way the power often operates in the background, 295 00:15:25,910 --> 00:15:29,990 S3: you know, powerful, wealthy, connected people call each other up 296 00:15:29,990 --> 00:15:32,710 S3: and ask for favors and skirt the rules. This happens 297 00:15:32,710 --> 00:15:34,550 S3: all the time with Donald Trump. It's just a lot 298 00:15:34,550 --> 00:15:37,070 S3: more overt. And then he'll go into the Oval Office 299 00:15:37,070 --> 00:15:40,630 S3: and just blurt out, uh, you know, the details about 300 00:15:40,630 --> 00:15:44,630 S3: exactly what transpired as if, you know, it was totally 301 00:15:44,630 --> 00:15:47,470 S3: fine and there was nothing untoward about it. And possibly 302 00:15:47,470 --> 00:15:51,150 S3: that's because he believes that there wasn't. He obviously recognized 303 00:15:51,150 --> 00:15:52,550 S3: it was not a good thing for him to be 304 00:15:52,550 --> 00:15:56,110 S3: seen to be pressuring Gianni Infantino because he said, you know, 305 00:15:56,150 --> 00:15:59,910 S3: he he stressed, um, I didn't tell him what to do. Um, 306 00:15:59,910 --> 00:16:02,030 S3: you know, I can't tell him what to do, but 307 00:16:02,030 --> 00:16:04,880 S3: he was perhaps not alert to the fact that you 308 00:16:04,880 --> 00:16:07,880 S3: know him as president, ringing up the head of FIFA 309 00:16:08,040 --> 00:16:11,760 S3: and requesting a review and, you know, whatever else he said, uh, 310 00:16:11,760 --> 00:16:15,640 S3: you know, carries a certain weight to it, let's say. 311 00:16:16,120 --> 00:16:19,120 S3: So I think in some ways, um, what we see 312 00:16:19,160 --> 00:16:22,360 S3: from Donald Trump is, is the way the system has 313 00:16:22,400 --> 00:16:25,120 S3: often works, but in a much more extreme way. He's 314 00:16:25,120 --> 00:16:29,080 S3: willing to push the boundaries of his power and of 315 00:16:29,080 --> 00:16:32,600 S3: the office as far as they can possibly be pushed. Uh, 316 00:16:32,600 --> 00:16:35,760 S3: and when we see that, of course, it is pretty ugly. 317 00:16:40,560 --> 00:16:43,920 S1: Thank you so much. I'm Michael and Nick for joining us. 318 00:16:44,400 --> 00:16:45,000 S2: Thank you. 319 00:16:45,160 --> 00:16:45,840 S3: No problem. 320 00:16:50,600 --> 00:16:54,200 S1: In other news, today, one of the nation's chief forecasters 321 00:16:54,200 --> 00:16:58,480 S1: has predicted that Australia faces its longest stretch of subpar 322 00:16:58,520 --> 00:17:03,560 S1: economic growth since the early 1990s recession. Days before a 323 00:17:03,560 --> 00:17:07,639 S1: Central Coast mother allegedly murdered her son. Caseworkers warned it 324 00:17:07,640 --> 00:17:10,480 S1: was only a matter of time before a child died 325 00:17:10,480 --> 00:17:13,720 S1: in the New South Wales region that's afflicted by drugs, 326 00:17:13,720 --> 00:17:18,000 S1: mental health problems and a child protection regime in shambles. 327 00:17:18,720 --> 00:17:22,400 S1: And midlife women used to report higher satisfaction with their 328 00:17:22,400 --> 00:17:25,399 S1: bodies than younger women. But a new study has found 329 00:17:25,400 --> 00:17:29,600 S1: that this has changed as grey divorce and anti-ageing messages 330 00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:35,480 S1: have increased. You can read more at the age.com.au or smh.com.au. 331 00:17:37,920 --> 00:17:42,200 S1: Today's episode was produced by Kai Wong. Our executive producer 332 00:17:42,200 --> 00:17:45,359 S1: is Tammy Mills, and our podcasts are overseen by Lisa 333 00:17:45,359 --> 00:17:49,240 S1: Muxworthy and Tom McKendrick. If you like our show, follow 334 00:17:49,240 --> 00:17:51,720 S1: The Morning Edition and leave a review for us on 335 00:17:51,720 --> 00:17:55,080 S1: Apple or Spotify. Thanks for listening.