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Speaker 2: important disclaimers. Remember always seek financial advice. And we're back

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Speaker 2: Episode one O eight. I did. We didn't think it'd

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Speaker 2: make it. Mike. We thought he might be on there

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Speaker 2: feeling this some hospital I.

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Speaker 3: Know, and he's clearly in so much pain.

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Speaker 2: It was Jimmy. He was whipping about early In a

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Speaker 2: few minutes.

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Speaker 1: I've got it, you know. I hurt my back playing tennis.

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Speaker 1: It was so it was so no, you can laugh.

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Speaker 1: It was pathetic. No, it was pathetic, like so I

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Speaker 1: often have some back problems, but this was like, just

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Speaker 1: all of a sudden, I actually thought I did had

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Speaker 1: a disc problem, but I didn't. But it was like

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Speaker 1: I felt like all of a sudden, like I got shot, dropped,

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Speaker 1: the racket fell on the floor and I'm like, nah,

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Speaker 1: it's over, and like I couldn't get out of bid.

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Speaker 1: Day one. The worst thing is it was on a

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Speaker 1: backswing on this greatest off forehand I had lined up.

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Speaker 1: I never even got to play the shot. You know,

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Speaker 1: I was playing against my coach. And so you know

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Speaker 1: how we always say we don't provide advice, So this

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Speaker 1: is doubly so when it comes to medical advice. But

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Speaker 1: day one, I think, wow, don't take this as advice.

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Speaker 1: That first night, I basically could not sleep. Took five

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Speaker 1: milligrams of volume. After half an hour, I'm like, nah,

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Speaker 1: this is a joke. Took another five milligrams and that

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Speaker 1: did the trick. So anyway, I'm a little better today.

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Speaker 1: Did not expected I thought you'd be. But when I'm

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Speaker 1: up and walking, No, when I'm actually walking is the

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Speaker 1: easiest thing for me. It's just getting standing up from

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Speaker 1: you stand.

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Speaker 2: Up holding the microphone for this episode. Okay, well I'll

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Speaker 2: take that advice. I'll take that advice on board.

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Speaker 1: Other than the injury, how was how was your week.

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Speaker 1: I've had a very interesting week because you know, I

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Speaker 1: was away and I just got back recently ago. I mean,

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Speaker 1: how crazy is this? I got out of Israel three

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Speaker 1: days before the Iranian missiles started falling and the airspace

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Speaker 1: was closed. And then I got out of Dubai a

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Speaker 1: few days ago, and I suspect that airspace is about

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Speaker 1: to be closed as well. If it's not already, well

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Speaker 1: you can forget about that. I don't think that's going

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Speaker 1: to happen. I don't think that's going to happen.

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Speaker 2: So at the moment, what happens to everybody else is

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Speaker 2: still flying?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think, look as long as the Emirates is

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Speaker 1: flying exactly. But I missed the Emirates connection because of

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Speaker 1: the long route to avoid Iran. And they were very amazing,

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Speaker 1: Like basically I got off the plane, they said, look,

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Speaker 1: you missed the can On the plane, I was messaging

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Speaker 1: them to find out about my connection. They were updating

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Speaker 1: me on their horribly slow internet, but still pretty amazing. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's true. And then I got off and they're like, okay,

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Speaker 1: we're taking you to this. I was with my son.

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Speaker 1: We're taking you to this The JW Marriott, you can

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Speaker 1: sleep there for twelve hours and we'll bring you back.

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Speaker 1: And it was they are their service is unbelievable, unbelievable.

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Speaker 2: You own most of the country.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well I did, you know what I said to

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Speaker 1: my son as we were being let out by Emirates

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Speaker 1: And like I hadn't been into Dubai before, like I'd

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Speaker 1: never been out of the airport, and so I tried

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Speaker 1: to use the automatic you know, the smart gates, but

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Speaker 1: it didn't know my photo yet and so it stopped me.

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Speaker 1: And then the guy that was taking us through said, now,

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Speaker 1: don't worry about it, and we just skipped through straight

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Speaker 1: to a kind of private person. And I said to

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Speaker 1: my son, this is what happens when the government and

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Speaker 1: the airline and the airport are basically all the same thing, right,

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Speaker 1: Like that's pretty incredible. So I got to tell you

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Speaker 1: the craziest story of when I was away in Boston.

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Speaker 1: So because Liam.

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Speaker 2: Was with me, this is headquarters in Boston, right.

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Speaker 1: Correct, And so I was in a hotel and he

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Speaker 1: decided he was going to join me through the US

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Speaker 1: and so I booked like a room that had like

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Speaker 1: a it was like a suite that had a fold

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Speaker 1: out so far hotel. So I was at the hotel

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Speaker 1: called the Fairmont Copley, which it's not even a five

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Speaker 1: star hotel. I think it's it was one hundred and

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Speaker 1: twenty years ago. It's pretty old, right, but it's like,

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Speaker 1: let's say it's a four and a half star hotel. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's on like Copley's Square. Yeah, lovely, this is an

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Speaker 1: old hotel. And so I get there to check in

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Speaker 1: and like hot in Boston, it was not hot enough.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean one.

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Speaker 2: Day it was go through a heat wave. No, it

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Speaker 2: wasn't your US.

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Speaker 1: It was twenty five one day, but Boston and New

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Speaker 1: York were like eighteen and nineteen and rainy. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: was hoping for spring. No, that's true, that's true. And

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Speaker 1: so we get to this hotel and am I allowed

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Speaker 1: to say who I booked through?

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Speaker 2: Because it wasn't luxury Escape. So you don't do a

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Speaker 2: lot of the US through MS. And you know they

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Speaker 2: give you those upgrades, right, which are very fine hotels.

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Speaker 2: You're a plan member, yeap correct, And so it's very

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Speaker 2: hit and miss if you get upgraded, well get the

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Speaker 2: free breakfast in the credit correct, which I never made

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Speaker 2: it to breakfast. But my son woke up at ten

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Speaker 2: thirty every morning and mosey down to breakfast. And so

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Speaker 2: to his credit, you know, he went he like walked

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Speaker 2: to Harvard one day. Actually it's a long walk, no,

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Speaker 2: but we went past MIT. He was much more impressed

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Speaker 2: with MIT. I think I told you this was much

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Speaker 2: more impressed with MIT. Anyway, so we're in this hotel.

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Speaker 2: I was reluctant to tell this story, but I'm going

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Speaker 2: to tell to you because it was. I think it's

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Speaker 2: my most mind blowing hotel story of my life. Really

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Speaker 2: about that.

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Speaker 1: And so I get to the desk and they say, oh,

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Speaker 1: we've upgraded you because of MS. Then I find out

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Speaker 1: they've upgraded us to the presidential suite of the hotel.

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Speaker 1: Then I start because I think this hotel's pretty old,

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Speaker 1: it's probably got some nice history. Then I start googling

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Speaker 1: every president in the last one hundred years has stayed

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Speaker 1: in this room. And so I'm sitting on the toilet

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Speaker 1: and I say to my son, well, this is the

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Speaker 1: toilet that Obama used. Like there's actually photos and footage

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Speaker 1: or whatever of all these presidents in this hotel room.

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Speaker 1: Mind you, if you look at a photo of it

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Speaker 1: fifty years earlier. It's a lot nicer, right, But it's

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Speaker 1: a pretty bizarre feeling to stand in a room and

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Speaker 1: to feel like there's that amount of history that's been

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Speaker 1: through this room, and like every celebrity has stayed in

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Speaker 1: that room. Pavarotti and he's been in that room, And

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Speaker 1: is he celebrity? I guess he was Elizabeth Taylor because

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Speaker 1: all this hotel, right, and you're in this room, and

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Speaker 1: you're thinking, and.

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Speaker 2: Boston isn't that big?

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Speaker 1: Right, That's right, that's right. And I was thinking these

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Speaker 1: two things. One is I was kind of a bit

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Speaker 1: overwhelmed is the wrong word, but maybe very aware of

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Speaker 1: like some of the stuff that must have gone in

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Speaker 1: this room on in this room. And then the other

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Speaker 1: thing I thought is I would have expected these people

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Speaker 1: to stay in much bigger, nicer.

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Speaker 2: Rooms than this room. I guess they probably tacked on

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Speaker 2: a couple of presentition. Should be quite big.

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Speaker 1: I reckon it was probably two hundred and fifty meters

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Speaker 1: pretty big.

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Speaker 2: It was big. It had like maybe not your usual

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Speaker 2: a big bedroom wardrobe big.

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Speaker 1: The bottom actually was not the very impressive.

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Speaker 2: I lived in with multiple people with like one hundreds

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Speaker 2: grand meters but rememberless enough times, upgrade, upgrade, and so

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Speaker 2: lounge room, massive dining room, like sixteen seat table in

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Speaker 2: the dining room. Do you expect these presidents to have

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Speaker 2: as their suite?

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Speaker 3: I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I guess so, I guess so. I remember many years

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Speaker 1: ago when I was in Melbourne and an Israeli deputy

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Speaker 1: foreign minister came and I went and had a meeting

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Speaker 1: with him as like a twenty year old at the

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Speaker 1: High Hotel, the Grand Hiats, and he was staying in

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Speaker 1: the diplomatic suite and I went in there and I

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Speaker 1: remember thinking, what the hell kind of person stays in

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Speaker 1: a room of this size.

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Speaker 2: You're a small man, so probably both small.

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Speaker 1: And like you know, this room was probably bigger than

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Speaker 1: that room. And it's funny how all of the excitement

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Speaker 1: of life just evaporates, all right, because and then you can't.

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Speaker 1: But I have to say I was very excited about

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Speaker 1: this room.

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Speaker 2: It was.

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Speaker 1: It wasn't two bedroom. And in fact, since you raised this,

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Speaker 1: I had to say to them, can you bring in

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Speaker 1: a roll away bed? Because there was no sofa bed

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Speaker 1: in that room, and so and so on the couch, well,

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Speaker 1: she sleeps in the bed and Trump is on the couch.

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Speaker 1: But but anyway, we had a great time there and

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Speaker 1: it was it was very lovely.

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Speaker 2: It was very lovely, fancy. So I've got a I

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Speaker 2: know you love quizzes. I've got a quiz for you

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Speaker 2: as well.

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Speaker 1: I've got a fun quiz for you. Companies that have

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Speaker 1: the highest annual revenue per employee. Do you see this quiz?

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Speaker 1: You would maybe didn't see this quiz?

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Speaker 2: I have an idea of there.

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Speaker 1: Well, so what I'm going to ask you is for

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Speaker 1: the top three, and then you'll probably keep going. And

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Speaker 1: then I'm going to ask you a more interesting question

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Speaker 1: than the top one. So who do you think number

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Speaker 1: one is?

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Speaker 2: Video?

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Speaker 1: Well, you were thought correctly. I'm I'm surprised. What do

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Speaker 1: you think the number is? Revenue per employee?

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Speaker 2: I heard this about a year ago, and revenue has

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Speaker 2: gone up a lot since then. But it was a

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Speaker 2: crazy was it like fifty or sixty million?

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Speaker 1: No, that's not that high. It's like three and a

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Speaker 1: half mil. But three and a half mil per employee.

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Speaker 1: H they've got a lot of staff. I mean there's

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Speaker 1: a mic drop, right, you just dropped the mic? Walk

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Speaker 1: out three and a half pil No, and so I'll

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Speaker 1: say no one, no other company is even over three milbe.

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Speaker 2: I heard on another podcast, listening to a different American

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Speaker 2: podcast this morning.

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Speaker 1: You should try. You should believe this podcast as your.

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Speaker 2: Especially given it was all in and half it's probably wrong,

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Speaker 2: but they said that a business we talked about recently

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Speaker 2: on the pod was that it was right up there.

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Speaker 2: Do you know what that?

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Speaker 1: Well? I can see the whole list in front of me,

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Speaker 1: so we've we've spoken about almost every one of these businesses.

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Speaker 1: So this is an unfair question to ask us that

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Speaker 1: I'm going to answer you, and then I can't quiz

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Speaker 1: you because I'm going to say all the answers to you.

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Speaker 1: So we're going to ignore your question and keep going.

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Speaker 1: So give me number two. Is Apple Loving up there?

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Speaker 1: Because that was what the all in guys claimed, Apple

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Speaker 1: Love and is not on here. I recently actually had

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Speaker 1: a conversation with someone about app Love and the complete

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Speaker 1: roller coaster that it's been on. But apparently the company

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Speaker 1: that I was talking to like is a close partner

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Speaker 1: with them and actually says the underlying business, because you know,

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Speaker 1: we were dubious about the business, but they said the

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Speaker 1: underlying business. She's really good. It's just the roller coaster

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Speaker 1: of the stock market valuation that's been crazy. I know,

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Speaker 1: I know, but they said the underlying business actually really

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Speaker 1: good underlying business. So tell me number two. Number two,

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Speaker 1: these are a bit clustered. The next three they're pretty

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Speaker 1: tightly clustered.

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Speaker 2: I assume it's MAG seven. I presume, Yeah, they've got

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Speaker 2: so many employees. I don't think it's Microsoft because I

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Speaker 2: think most are too many starts.

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Speaker 1: Well, you're right, Microsoft is actually number six.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I've got like fifty thousand staff, so I don't

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Speaker 2: think except.

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Speaker 1: By the way, just to give you some context, Microsoft

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Speaker 1: is still a million dollars plus her employees.

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Speaker 2: Starts.

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Speaker 1: I got your employees, which I think is a number.

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Speaker 1: You're a SAS business, Yeah, a mill plus is probably

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Speaker 1: representative of a high quality SAS business. Like it's not

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Speaker 1: in saying that's about right for a high quality SaaS business.

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Speaker 2: Would Google number two?

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Speaker 1: Well, Google is alphabet is number four, so it's less

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Speaker 1: than two mil per employee USD. This is is number three.

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Speaker 1: You're going to be surprised by this number, I think

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Speaker 1: because you've gone for software heavy businesses, as I would have.

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Speaker 1: But actually number one is not.

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Speaker 2: Software heavy it is, and neither is number two.

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Speaker 1: No, well that's not even on the list. Forget about them.

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Speaker 2: Yeah not Amazon, No, it's about Max Evans almost now.

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Speaker 1: But you've forgotten the one that is staring you right

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Speaker 1: in the face quite literally A yes, Apple, So Apple is.

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Speaker 1: So isn't that interesting that number one and number two

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Speaker 1: are hardware heavy business, very high And so this goes

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Speaker 1: to my point, which is people are in love with

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Speaker 1: software margins and SaaS margins. But if you have a

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Speaker 1: really great hardware business where brand and is doing heavy lifting,

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure. In video both hybrid software hardware. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but Apple, so Apple almost entirely brand doing the heavy

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Speaker 1: lifting for their high hardware margins. In video you could

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Speaker 1: probably argue that the tech is doing a lot of

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Speaker 1: heavy lifting.

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Speaker 2: So they've got that they got network there because they

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Speaker 2: got cood Let programming language, some other stuff they have

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Speaker 2: that there's really helpful.

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Speaker 1: And so one of the companies you mentioned.

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Speaker 2: You also argue in VideA app in many both Apple

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Speaker 2: and Video we talked about the main hardware businesses, but

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Speaker 2: they obviously subcontract out the manufacturing. Obviously t s MC

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Speaker 2: does in videos manufacturing and Fox Gone does Apple, they're

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Speaker 2: kind of the brains behind them, but they didn't really

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Speaker 2: make anything.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but yes, that's true. That's a good bit of

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Speaker 1: those business they really are mostly So maybe the point

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Speaker 1: that really I would have a home is to say

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Speaker 1: the world is in love, has been in love for

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Speaker 1: a very long time with the notional economics of SESS businesses.

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Speaker 1: But neither in Video nor Apple is a pure SAS

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Speaker 1: business in any way, shape or form, and they are.

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Speaker 1: They are the highest revenue per INMPL.

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Speaker 2: When you say SaaS, like none of the bags have sas.

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Speaker 1: May well, maybe I would broad into SaaS and say

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Speaker 1: close to zero incremental cost of additional users software. I

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Speaker 1: don't know there should be a word for that, but

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Speaker 1: basically adding another user as almost no cost sos mata

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Speaker 1: is that alphabet? Alphabet?

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Speaker 2: Is that?

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Speaker 1: The one you didn't say is Shopify, which is basically

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Speaker 1: the same as Microsoft, just just around a million dollars.

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Speaker 1: And so you mentioned Amazon's Amazon's next in the list,

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Speaker 1: So that's number What are we up to? Seven?

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Speaker 2: I think amazons all those warehouses, Well.

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Speaker 1: So what do you think? So what company do you

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Speaker 1: think is just below Amazon and almost the same as Amazon?

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Speaker 2: Yes, go with your instinct. Yes, that's right. So Amazon

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Speaker 2: is in the CADG same group as Warmer, Target ups, FedEx.

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Speaker 2: Surprised those businesses so high, well, they did WS well.

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Speaker 1: Amazon is probably only four hundred k USD per employer.

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Speaker 1: Walmart is almost the same. And so what you see

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Speaker 1: when you look at Amazon is that it's employee based

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Speaker 1: economics are much more similar to it's to the fact

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Speaker 1: that it's this massive, massive physical logistics business and that's

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Speaker 1: where you know, it's got like one and a half

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Speaker 1: million employees.

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Speaker 2: Yes, it's massive. Walmar's the bigest employe. Amazon will have

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Speaker 2: to be pretty close to it.

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Speaker 1: And so Amazon is like, You've got Microsoft and Shopify

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Speaker 1: that are like one point one mill looks like let's

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Speaker 1: say per employee, and then all of a sudden you

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Speaker 1: have this huge drop to the next group, which is

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Speaker 1: like sub half a mill, and Amazon is at the

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Speaker 1: top of that group. They do not have the employee

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Speaker 1: economics of a of a tech company. In USD it

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Speaker 1: would be two hundred and something k. So we would

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Speaker 1: be like below Amazon, but in that tier. But also

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Speaker 1: it's a business that is now growing revenue pretty strongly,

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Speaker 1: and it's fixed cost base isn't really moving, So how

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Speaker 1: we're starting to get kind of the flywheel, right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's right, all of that. All of these businesses obviously

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Speaker 1: are scale.

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Speaker 2: Business amateur scale, those right escapes would be depend if

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Speaker 2: you use turnover all accounting revenue in verta commerce.

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Speaker 1: I would use your commission revenue, so it would be

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Speaker 1: similar to that.

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Speaker 2: Then if using commission revenue, similar commission mount is quiet.

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Speaker 1: But also you know, still a strongly growing business, not

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Speaker 1: at full scale, not mature scale. And so and also

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Speaker 1: we have to remember in video, if we did this

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Speaker 1: five years ago, there would be nowhere near the top

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Speaker 1: of this list five years.

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Speaker 2: Ago absolutely never would have grown staff count as well

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Speaker 2: significantly over those five years. But as they grow revenue more.

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Speaker 1: I think what's impressive is that Apple, Meta, Alphabet, Shopify, Microsoft,

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Speaker 1: they've actually delivered. Like these businesses could have easily just

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Speaker 1: been like VC disasters. And you know, what we have

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Speaker 1: is a situation where you know, in Australia, the biggest

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Speaker 1: most well known tech businesses Canvas. But and like we

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Speaker 1: think that that's making money now, but like it would

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Speaker 1: be almost the only one that's making material free cash. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and but here on this list you have in video, Apple,

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Speaker 1: Meta Alphabet, Shopify, Microsoft or making material profits and free

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Speaker 1: cash generation. It's like a different category of company.

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Speaker 2: And Microsoft's a forty something year come out, I know,

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Speaker 2: for fifty almost like they're kind of different camas at

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Speaker 2: ten years old.

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Speaker 1: But Shopify made money pretty early. Shop five incredible men

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Speaker 1: have made money instantly, like Facebook was profitable almost. And

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Speaker 1: so what's interesting is you have these global leaders in video.

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Speaker 1: You know, their story is long and complicated and nearly

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Speaker 1: when broke but like three quiet episodes. Yeah, but they

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Speaker 1: ended up making money, like after their near death experience,

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Speaker 1: like all a sudden, they started making money, right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And so I think what's the miss much the.

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Speaker 2: More interesting you have this start a heap is market

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Speaker 2: cat per employee? That'd be a really interesting number, yeah,

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Speaker 2: because the revenue numbers very different you have. You'd have

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Speaker 2: video even higher because it's.

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Speaker 1: Got but you can't really control that, right, Like a

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Speaker 1: company can control revenue per employee, but you don't control

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Speaker 1: the market. I think what's interesting though, is this kind

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Speaker 1: of I don't know what cognitive dissonance or maybe just

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Speaker 1: cognitive mismatch between the nature of these ultra successful companies

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Speaker 1: and the VC model slash startup model that doesn't really

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Speaker 1: think about profitability in any material way to software businesses, well,

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Speaker 1: this is revenue, but like in Vidia, Apple, Meta, Alphabet, Shopify,

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Speaker 1: Microsoft or massively profitable businesses.

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Speaker 2: I feel, and this is which goes to my often

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Speaker 2: criticism of vcs may friends with many vcs is just

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Speaker 2: the lack of focus on any sort of profitability. They

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Speaker 2: don't seem to care. And we talked about Immunible last

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Speaker 2: week with tiny revenue and huge valuation, and this is constant,

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Speaker 2: like just almost complete ignorance of debility to make a profit.

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Speaker 1: So there are businesses that should absolutely be VC funded,

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Speaker 1: like massively high capital costs upfront that needs VC funding,

402
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Speaker 1: or a business where it's likely there's going to be

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Speaker 1: a winner takes most market and it's a race to

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Speaker 1: own that market. But like Aria, was that business right,

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Speaker 1: like that could have been VC funded It wasn't. But

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Speaker 1: now yeah, but like that was going to be a

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Speaker 1: winner takes most market. Definitely there's a place for vcs.

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Speaker 1: I wonder the concert adventures, I know, but like I'm

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Speaker 1: thinking about how that relates to this, Like obviously Microsoft

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Speaker 1: basically didn't take VC money.

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Speaker 2: You had one tiny round THO spent it.

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Speaker 1: And I wonder it's an interesting from Zakoya who becked

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Speaker 1: it knows KOI didn't back Apple, it was it was

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Speaker 1: another firm that back Apple in the end.

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Speaker 2: That's right.

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Speaker 1: But the thing is one of the interesting counter factuals

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Speaker 1: which we're not going to know the answer to, is

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Speaker 1: what would CANVOR have been like if it hadn't taken

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Speaker 1: VC money? Like? What did VC money enable it to do?

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Speaker 1: And how would it have grown without that VC money?

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Speaker 1: And I think if I was starting a software business today,

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Speaker 1: like a SAS business today, my first instinct would be

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Speaker 1: can I get this thing to be at least break

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Speaker 1: even for the first couple of years, so that if

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Speaker 1: I'm going to take VC, my negotiating positions much better

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Speaker 1: and maybe I won't need to take it, or maybe

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Speaker 1: I'll just take it on a secondary sell down or something.

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Speaker 1: So I think it isn't I think the mindset has

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Speaker 1: I won't say it's been shifting, but I have noticed

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Speaker 1: on you know, the occasions that I'm on LinkedIn that

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Speaker 1: there's that there's a.

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Speaker 2: Big news to all us.

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Speaker 1: There is this big movement now which is talking very

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Speaker 1: heavily about bootstrapping startups, especially in the early days.

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Speaker 2: Every time some bound it comes to me and ask

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Speaker 2: me for typical often I'm sure you get even more

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Speaker 2: like they come asking for advice, but really I want money,

438
00:20:48,600 --> 00:20:50,280
Speaker 2: And I say, well, there's no money coming, but I

439
00:20:50,320 --> 00:20:52,119
Speaker 2: had to give you the advice I has. Sure and

440
00:20:52,160 --> 00:20:53,800
Speaker 2: I say and I say, oh, how do I raise money?

441
00:20:53,800 --> 00:20:55,600
Speaker 2: Can you use me to vas blah bah blah. I said, well,

442
00:20:56,160 --> 00:20:59,239
Speaker 2: my advice is boots don't write and in fantasy some

443
00:20:59,240 --> 00:21:02,560
Speaker 2: companies like it's impossible. But if there is any way

444
00:21:02,600 --> 00:21:04,560
Speaker 2: at a bootstrap, I say, try and do it, because

445
00:21:04,760 --> 00:21:06,239
Speaker 2: I was with that you do. If you look at

446
00:21:06,240 --> 00:21:08,359
Speaker 2: our story, we would never have to raise venture money.

447
00:21:08,600 --> 00:21:11,280
Speaker 2: Nobody has ever given us a revenuemultiples. We're making ebit

448
00:21:11,320 --> 00:21:13,240
Speaker 2: that all the time. No, you get your Ebito multiple,

449
00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:14,879
Speaker 2: which is a fraction of the revenue multiple. And we

450
00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:17,440
Speaker 2: never got a temple of Webster style valuation because nobody

451
00:21:17,480 --> 00:21:19,200
Speaker 2: gave us that kind of multiple, which is which is fine,

452
00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:22,080
Speaker 2: it is what it is. But it's not a chrism

453
00:21:22,119 --> 00:21:24,600
Speaker 2: of that. It's chrism of when business do get these

454
00:21:24,640 --> 00:21:27,159
Speaker 2: crazy revenue multiples because they're not even close to profitability.

455
00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:27,960
Speaker 2: That makes no sense.

456
00:21:28,200 --> 00:21:31,080
Speaker 1: I think the way I would think about giving money

457
00:21:31,280 --> 00:21:34,879
Speaker 1: to these, especially like Series A rounds, is to say,

458
00:21:35,280 --> 00:21:37,520
Speaker 1: show me what this business would look like if you

459
00:21:37,640 --> 00:21:41,200
Speaker 1: ran it profitably, and then show me what an extra

460
00:21:41,400 --> 00:21:44,359
Speaker 1: ten million dollars pumped in over the next eighteen months

461
00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:48,080
Speaker 1: does to change that business. And I think that's to

462
00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:49,720
Speaker 1: me the way that I would look at it to

463
00:21:49,800 --> 00:21:52,439
Speaker 1: really understand what you're buying for the money exactly. And

464
00:21:52,480 --> 00:21:55,240
Speaker 1: I'm not sure that's you know necessarily how it works.

465
00:21:55,240 --> 00:21:57,960
Speaker 1: Are you just going to go straight into your squizzle?

466
00:21:58,000 --> 00:21:58,840
Speaker 1: You've got something else?

467
00:21:59,240 --> 00:22:00,720
Speaker 2: Now we'll go to my queer. Actually, actually we'll know

468
00:22:00,760 --> 00:22:02,680
Speaker 2: something else. My hockey gos go this clip. This is

469
00:22:02,880 --> 00:22:10,639
Speaker 2: in our Predictions episode, and that ever ever is propite pricing.

470
00:22:10,640 --> 00:22:13,600
Speaker 2: This is in the last twenty years. And talked about

471
00:22:13,560 --> 00:22:15,120
Speaker 2: interest rates and what race would do. And I said,

472
00:22:15,119 --> 00:22:17,119
Speaker 2: they dropped twenty five to fifty BIPs this year. And

473
00:22:17,160 --> 00:22:18,879
Speaker 2: you said you thought they say steady. I said, I

474
00:22:18,920 --> 00:22:21,280
Speaker 2: think they should stay steady. But the RBA is concerned

475
00:22:21,320 --> 00:22:23,320
Speaker 2: about property prices and nothing else, and they'll drop them.

476
00:22:23,400 --> 00:22:25,200
Speaker 2: Of course, that's what happened. RBA wrapped it up into

477
00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:28,520
Speaker 2: all these other excuses that were wrong. It's not over

478
00:22:28,600 --> 00:22:31,119
Speaker 2: it though, of course it's ninety what happens, and we

479
00:22:31,359 --> 00:22:33,960
Speaker 2: said calendar year, the calendar is yeah. But I think

480
00:22:33,960 --> 00:22:35,520
Speaker 2: I think the fifty bits to me, I think they'll

481
00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:36,440
Speaker 2: probably hold it prettytall.

482
00:22:36,440 --> 00:22:38,480
Speaker 1: I didn't give out the gold medal at the halfway

483
00:22:38,520 --> 00:22:39,320
Speaker 1: point of the race.

484
00:22:39,400 --> 00:22:41,280
Speaker 2: I just think, I think you're in a lot of trouble.

485
00:22:41,280 --> 00:22:43,320
Speaker 2: I can't see them increasing well, I must not love

486
00:22:43,359 --> 00:22:44,359
Speaker 2: them too. I can't see it happened.

487
00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:47,440
Speaker 1: I love to be the underestimated underdog in this case

488
00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:49,479
Speaker 1: for good reason. When I went to the US very

489
00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:52,959
Speaker 1: early on in Catapults, I would present to these teams

490
00:22:53,040 --> 00:22:55,880
Speaker 1: or investors and they and what I would hear back

491
00:22:55,880 --> 00:22:58,119
Speaker 1: from them was the craziest thing that I kind of loved.

492
00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:01,199
Speaker 1: It was, we think that you do is incredible, but

493
00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:03,119
Speaker 1: we just find it impossible to believe that there's not

494
00:23:03,119 --> 00:23:05,280
Speaker 1: an American that does it better. And like the whole

495
00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:08,119
Speaker 1: Australian thing got you so underestimated, and so you know,

496
00:23:08,160 --> 00:23:10,600
Speaker 1: eventually we had to overcome it with Cuban, but like

497
00:23:11,080 --> 00:23:14,280
Speaker 1: it did provide certain advantages and so basically I'm going

498
00:23:14,320 --> 00:23:17,040
Speaker 1: to sneak up behind you and when you least expect it,

499
00:23:17,320 --> 00:23:19,280
Speaker 1: you are going to could go there savaged by to

500
00:23:19,359 --> 00:23:20,800
Speaker 1: go the way of your Richard Goyd a better as

501
00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:24,960
Speaker 1: well and no surprise. Falling borrowing cost and fewer homes

502
00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:27,600
Speaker 1: coming to market has meant the preliminary auction clearance rate

503
00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:30,520
Speaker 1: and the largest three cities has hit seventy four percent,

504
00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:34,200
Speaker 1: the highest in earlier year and Melbourne, Truily, country's largest

505
00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:36,840
Speaker 1: action market, posted a clearance rate of seventy seven percent

506
00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:39,600
Speaker 1: last week. So as certainly Iperta and I think you

507
00:23:39,640 --> 00:23:42,879
Speaker 1: agree with the time property prices. The only beneficiary of

508
00:23:42,920 --> 00:23:45,400
Speaker 1: lower interest rates really is those who have multiple properties.

509
00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:47,320
Speaker 1: If you own one or zero properties, you don't really

510
00:23:47,359 --> 00:23:49,720
Speaker 1: benefit from this because you your said brest parabise or

511
00:23:49,720 --> 00:23:51,919
Speaker 1: you're worse off. And we've just seen it translate to

512
00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:54,840
Speaker 1: higher property prices almost instantaneously. So the RBA is une

513
00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:57,280
Speaker 1: exactly what I thought they'd do, and just look after

514
00:23:57,320 --> 00:23:57,880
Speaker 1: property owners.

515
00:23:57,880 --> 00:24:00,880
Speaker 2: It's a detriment of everyone else. It's hard to argue.

516
00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:03,480
Speaker 2: There is a brief conversation which is you are correct,

517
00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:05,879
Speaker 2: did you say I seen you a photo a few

518
00:24:05,880 --> 00:24:07,280
Speaker 2: minutes Ago'm not sure you had a hands look at it,

519
00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:08,359
Speaker 2: but we talk to me a.

520
00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:10,720
Speaker 1: Photo a few minutes while I was telling you my story.

521
00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:12,720
Speaker 2: This is before the podcast, when I was of the

522
00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:15,680
Speaker 2: barn Me Joint around the corner. Oh yeah, you said

523
00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:17,639
Speaker 2: I've never seen I wasn't, and you complained about the

524
00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:21,320
Speaker 2: calories in Barmes. And I mean that that role because

525
00:24:21,320 --> 00:24:25,160
Speaker 2: you know, like it's the fusion of Vietnamese and French cuisine, right,

526
00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:27,400
Speaker 2: and so that role that beget I mean, I can't

527
00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:30,480
Speaker 2: it's two thousand and four hundred Killer Jewels, twenty four

528
00:24:30,520 --> 00:24:31,760
Speaker 2: hundred obout me.

529
00:24:31,960 --> 00:24:34,320
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, what am I going to do with that?

530
00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:38,879
Speaker 2: Back? I is like four thousand.

531
00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:43,640
Speaker 1: I know it's not KFC, okay, but that's pretty filling, right.

532
00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:46,240
Speaker 2: I've never seen a cafe. This is like a barn

533
00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:49,080
Speaker 2: Me joints across the road from your old at list

534
00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:51,200
Speaker 2: that Mike, there was at least fifty or sixty people,

535
00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:54,080
Speaker 2: And every single day there's sixty people outside this bar

536
00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:54,639
Speaker 2: Me place.

537
00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:58,560
Speaker 3: There's a very similar story on Swan Street in Richmond.

538
00:24:58,680 --> 00:24:58,920
Speaker 2: Really.

539
00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:00,600
Speaker 1: Oh yes, I I have seen that.

540
00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:04,160
Speaker 3: It is every day at eleven forty five there are

541
00:25:04,359 --> 00:25:07,240
Speaker 3: probably fifty or sixty lined up down the road. I

542
00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:08,000
Speaker 3: walk good.

543
00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:10,200
Speaker 2: Sometimes one's amazing. The one here is amazing.

544
00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:13,440
Speaker 1: I sometimes walk there from catapults and by the time

545
00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:16,440
Speaker 1: I get there, I think I probably have done enough

546
00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:19,000
Speaker 1: calories to eat this bar and me. But you know

547
00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:21,399
Speaker 1: what I do. I mean, I'm going to make you sick.

548
00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:23,960
Speaker 1: What I'm about to say. I go into the Colt

549
00:25:24,040 --> 00:25:26,280
Speaker 1: supermarket and just buy one of their sandwiches and a

550
00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:29,040
Speaker 1: banana and a yogurt. I'm just sick of that. It's fine,

551
00:25:29,040 --> 00:25:32,040
Speaker 1: it's kind of pathetic. It's very cheap, by the way,

552
00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:35,880
Speaker 1: definitely what you get for the reality of it all. Yeah,

553
00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:37,800
Speaker 1: what you get for the money is more than one pay.

554
00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:39,960
Speaker 1: But there's an unbelievably low book used at work.

555
00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:41,840
Speaker 2: We have to have lunches here now, but why someone

556
00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:44,320
Speaker 2: will gone buy a chicken from meat, Someone buy a

557
00:25:44,359 --> 00:25:46,600
Speaker 2: chicken from coal. Somebody by bread rolls, which between three

558
00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:49,000
Speaker 2: would be like a three or fifty lunch. So no,

559
00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:51,679
Speaker 2: I'm not against that at all, supportive of that, but

560
00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:53,639
Speaker 2: just this bad I think it just shows into your

561
00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:56,000
Speaker 2: place on Swan Street. Hospitality is such a wind lose.

562
00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:57,720
Speaker 2: I think someone was telling me it's about three percent

563
00:25:57,800 --> 00:26:01,360
Speaker 2: average margin on court restaurants or food places. So some

564
00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:03,439
Speaker 2: places have like a ten percent margin. Some have a

565
00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:06,320
Speaker 2: negative margin, callt negative five and go bus and the

566
00:26:06,359 --> 00:26:08,840
Speaker 2: places that get it right. And we talk about process

567
00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:11,040
Speaker 2: power a bit. There's not no other explanation. I mean,

568
00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:13,800
Speaker 2: these places have great process power. They're able to get

569
00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:17,280
Speaker 2: something right that ninety five percent places can't get right.

570
00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:21,480
Speaker 1: Well, you reckon that, I would say they have nothing.

571
00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:25,000
Speaker 1: I think they've got nothing. I think basically, you open

572
00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:27,920
Speaker 1: something in a place where there's not much to eat

573
00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:31,320
Speaker 1: of that kind, you're the one that's there. It tastes good,

574
00:26:31,440 --> 00:26:33,280
Speaker 1: it doesn't have to taste ten out of ten, can

575
00:26:33,320 --> 00:26:35,760
Speaker 1: taste seven and a half out of ten, eight out

576
00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:39,080
Speaker 1: of ten. And you basically do that and you're finding

577
00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:42,119
Speaker 1: a little pocket of opportunity in the market. And I

578
00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:44,879
Speaker 1: don't think that's strategic anything. I just think that's a

579
00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:49,600
Speaker 1: technical decision. It's not nvidiots. There's a place before here.

580
00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:51,439
Speaker 2: What happens? When I met around for ten years, there

581
00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:54,480
Speaker 2: was always Okay, this place comes and it's like three

582
00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:56,200
Speaker 2: exercise of it?

583
00:26:56,320 --> 00:26:57,440
Speaker 1: Are they both selling barn me?

584
00:26:57,800 --> 00:26:59,679
Speaker 2: There was a bar meet place there for years and

585
00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:01,520
Speaker 2: it was it was actually not a bad, but me place.

586
00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:03,480
Speaker 2: And this place has come. I thought, why does any

587
00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:05,440
Speaker 2: place people outside this bar mejo and they realize it

588
00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:07,800
Speaker 2: changed to this Luke's place. There's a couple of them,

589
00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:11,520
Speaker 2: and there's got to be something inherent with some people

590
00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:13,720
Speaker 2: like like Crystally your friend Chris Lucas, or like Justin

591
00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:18,720
Speaker 2: Ham's have absolutely got this. Chris has personal process power, right,

592
00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:22,440
Speaker 2: we can call it process power basically just Chris better. Yes, correct,

593
00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:24,800
Speaker 2: They've got a good eye for understanding what people want

594
00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:26,760
Speaker 2: and then they have a machine behind them to deliver.

595
00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:28,600
Speaker 2: The machine is the process power. I agree with you

596
00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:30,560
Speaker 2: about that, this Luke's bar me I mean it might

597
00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:32,399
Speaker 2: be saying this is a mini process This is not

598
00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:35,119
Speaker 2: You're so enthusiastic. I wish I could short sell this.

599
00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:40,439
Speaker 2: There's got no power whatsoever. You want to hit that

600
00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:42,400
Speaker 2: many people out. I wanted to get a bar met

601
00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:45,480
Speaker 2: the podcast even later than year. This is what you do.

602
00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:47,919
Speaker 1: This is what I was in fairness, I wasn't very

603
00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:52,080
Speaker 1: late and I was only fifteen meters away downstairs. This

604
00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:53,639
Speaker 1: is this is what happens with you.

605
00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:56,040
Speaker 2: I'm going to give you a bit of a psychoanalysis, Okay,

606
00:27:56,720 --> 00:27:58,960
Speaker 2: basically you go and get the Seven Powers book.

607
00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:02,640
Speaker 1: Courtesy of me you read it, you fall in love

608
00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:04,800
Speaker 1: with it. You're in love with your podcast. We're talking

609
00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:07,359
Speaker 1: about it. Correct, that's you really can't have that much

610
00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:09,600
Speaker 1: credit for you with the conduit. I can still take

611
00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:13,640
Speaker 1: full creed stuff. And then you go and you look

612
00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:17,159
Speaker 1: at the whole world. But instead of just wearing like

613
00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:20,520
Speaker 1: seven powers glasses, you've actually had this, like you know,

614
00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:24,200
Speaker 1: LA six surgery done to your eyes, so you see

615
00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:26,199
Speaker 1: the whole world of seven powers. I've got news for you.

616
00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:27,080
Speaker 1: Luke's barn me.

617
00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:30,080
Speaker 2: You're seeing nothing Hamilton for America.

618
00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:33,960
Speaker 1: It's like looking at night. There is nothing to see.

619
00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:37,480
Speaker 1: It's dark, holy big ham Everything is a nail. No, correct,

620
00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:42,320
Speaker 1: that's that's absolutely true. And so and so. I think

621
00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:45,080
Speaker 1: it's probably a good location and it's very tasty.

622
00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:47,280
Speaker 2: The thing is you've been wrong because there was the

623
00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:52,200
Speaker 2: place ten years ten years beforehand. Fair enough, fair enough,

624
00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:54,480
Speaker 2: We've got a b test here that's like that. It's

625
00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:55,440
Speaker 2: probably a bit cool.

626
00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:58,360
Speaker 1: It's probably on Insta or TikTok where you don't spend

627
00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:01,880
Speaker 1: your days, but probably stuff time. We're not on TikTok.

628
00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:05,520
Speaker 2: I'm China's propaganda to be tracking me. All right, Well

629
00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:09,960
Speaker 2: be that as May sixty people in line. Probably TikTok

630
00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:12,600
Speaker 2: did it up and that's why they're in line.

631
00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:13,600
Speaker 1: TikTok.

632
00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:16,400
Speaker 3: Well, I was going to say, to support Adam's view,

633
00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:19,560
Speaker 3: there are two other barme places on Swan Street and

634
00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:21,920
Speaker 3: this one always has more.

635
00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:24,880
Speaker 1: And there's like three bummy places within right. This is

636
00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:26,640
Speaker 1: what I'm going to do. I can't put a timeline

637
00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:28,240
Speaker 1: on this because I can't have one of these. I

638
00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:30,080
Speaker 1: can't be no, I'm not I'm not going to have one.

639
00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:32,480
Speaker 1: But like, I can't put a timeline because I don't

640
00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:34,000
Speaker 1: know when I'm going to be bothered doing it, because

641
00:29:34,040 --> 00:29:36,479
Speaker 1: it's going to be incidental. But when next time I'm

642
00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:38,880
Speaker 1: on Swan Street, I'm going to go to people in

643
00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:41,800
Speaker 1: the line and I'm going to say, why are you

644
00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:44,400
Speaker 1: going to this bun me and waiting in line when

645
00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:46,560
Speaker 1: there are two others that you can go to? And

646
00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:48,200
Speaker 1: I'm going to ask people.

647
00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:50,880
Speaker 2: You're going to say process parody, Hamilton Helmer. If they

648
00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:55,440
Speaker 2: say that, I will quit this podcast and I will

649
00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:59,400
Speaker 2: become an acholide of yours. You will become my pope. Okay,

650
00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:02,160
Speaker 2: but it's unlikely to have You should.

651
00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:04,680
Speaker 3: Record yourself doing that. Get some Fox pops for the show.

652
00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:07,520
Speaker 1: All right, well you know what that means.

653
00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:08,840
Speaker 2: You'll be coming with me by the way.

654
00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:12,680
Speaker 1: All right, we'll record some we ask five.

655
00:30:12,560 --> 00:30:14,760
Speaker 2: Or six people because it's one hundred meters.

656
00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:16,560
Speaker 1: All right, you go ask and you say no, you

657
00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:18,960
Speaker 1: can to ask, but there's no there's only one other

658
00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:20,959
Speaker 1: place here. There's a whole swan streep.

659
00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:23,840
Speaker 2: There's multiple there's multiple bar places around. Here's my point.

660
00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:26,239
Speaker 2: That's my scept that I was going to ask us

661
00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:28,600
Speaker 2: superior to others. It is a very it is a

662
00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:30,600
Speaker 2: very you know, we laugh about this, but it is

663
00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:33,040
Speaker 2: a very interesting I'm mostly laughing at you but suggesting

664
00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:35,560
Speaker 2: it's got power, but like it. Laugh.

665
00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:38,800
Speaker 1: It is a very interesting question though, about what it

666
00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:41,800
Speaker 1: is that makes people queue up, because like I see

667
00:30:41,800 --> 00:30:44,720
Speaker 1: a queue and all I think is Soviet Union. I

668
00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:47,760
Speaker 1: don't need like toilet papers, potatoes or whatever's at the

669
00:30:47,800 --> 00:30:48,320
Speaker 1: end of the line.

670
00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:51,320
Speaker 2: It's a genuine product that it's easily comparable. It's a

671
00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:53,160
Speaker 2: consumer rule. So if you get it wrong, you've got

672
00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:53,600
Speaker 2: it wrong.

673
00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:55,960
Speaker 1: If you feel this strongly about it, you should go

674
00:30:56,040 --> 00:30:58,760
Speaker 1: to Luke. I'm not joking about this, and you should

675
00:30:58,760 --> 00:31:01,360
Speaker 1: say I want to invest to hell Pew roll out

676
00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:04,080
Speaker 1: these should actually and that's that's what we should get something,

677
00:31:04,360 --> 00:31:06,000
Speaker 1: that's what we should do. And I can guarantee the

678
00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:09,040
Speaker 1: minute you and I invest in that even if they

679
00:31:09,080 --> 00:31:11,360
Speaker 1: had process power, it will evaporated into.

680
00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:15,480
Speaker 2: I was at MUMO last week. I was in Sydney

681
00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:17,680
Speaker 2: for a day. I don't know what that is. It's

682
00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:20,760
Speaker 2: justin Hems's. I think it's Malaysian or I think it's

683
00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:22,160
Speaker 2: Malaysian or Indonesian.

684
00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:24,719
Speaker 1: Next to Jael Laffel, they're the same thing.

685
00:31:24,720 --> 00:31:27,360
Speaker 2: And it is like it is always in that place,

686
00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:29,520
Speaker 2: like every day of the week you have to book,

687
00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:30,800
Speaker 2: like it's have to book.

688
00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:32,920
Speaker 1: Well, he's also got brand there you go to give

689
00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:36,880
Speaker 1: you a power. He's also got personal brand. But personal brand.

690
00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:38,680
Speaker 2: I think if he opened the restaurant that wasn't great,

691
00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:40,520
Speaker 2: people wouldn't go there. I don't think people go there

692
00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:42,560
Speaker 2: just because it's justin Hemson. I don't think people because

693
00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:45,240
Speaker 2: he and it's great, you think it's great. I don't

694
00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:48,200
Speaker 2: find like, listen, I've seen this many times before. I'm

695
00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:50,080
Speaker 2: not a foodie. I don't know how you could be

696
00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:53,360
Speaker 2: a foodie. You don't eat anything what measonably, what that

697
00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:55,400
Speaker 2: apple and that water is better than the apple and

698
00:31:55,440 --> 00:31:56,560
Speaker 2: water I had anywhere else.

699
00:31:58,000 --> 00:31:59,760
Speaker 1: So I'm not a foodie, but I don't when I've

700
00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:03,440
Speaker 1: gone to Justin. You know, there's a Japanese place in

701
00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:07,000
Speaker 1: Sydney at the top of the ivy Okay, it's a

702
00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:09,600
Speaker 1: very expensive Japanese yea, it used to be a non

703
00:32:10,120 --> 00:32:11,920
Speaker 1: that is that where the pool is. No, No, that's

704
00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:14,120
Speaker 1: a very top but like all some other level, I'm

705
00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:16,000
Speaker 1: not super familiar. But I went to that Japanese I

706
00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:18,680
Speaker 1: actually walked out. I mean I paid my bill, like,

707
00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:23,080
Speaker 1: but it was. I thought it was very inauthentic really

708
00:32:23,120 --> 00:32:26,920
Speaker 1: and mediocre and actually my favorite Japanese ultra authentic place

709
00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:30,400
Speaker 1: hidden away just closed after twenty five weears. Yeah, very

710
00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:32,560
Speaker 1: but yeah, so I don't know if it's great, but

711
00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:35,280
Speaker 1: definitely there's a certain thing that you get when you

712
00:32:35,320 --> 00:32:38,719
Speaker 1: go to one of his establishments, and people are prepared

713
00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:41,040
Speaker 1: to go because of his personal brand as well.

714
00:32:41,240 --> 00:32:43,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, I can't give you my quiz now, all right,

715
00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:47,120
Speaker 2: number of searches per platform per day, so like I'll

716
00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:49,040
Speaker 2: give you first one because its obvious Google's number one

717
00:32:49,520 --> 00:32:51,080
Speaker 2: and that's got thirteen point seven.

718
00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:53,960
Speaker 1: I thought I actually thought you were asking me how

719
00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:57,400
Speaker 1: many searches are conducted on each individual platform each day.

720
00:32:57,760 --> 00:33:00,920
Speaker 1: With the preface of saying, I'm starting with an easy question,

721
00:33:01,320 --> 00:33:02,840
Speaker 1: but you're actually saying rank the.

722
00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:06,440
Speaker 2: Rank, Rank, So number one Google at thirteen point seven billion,

723
00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:09,400
Speaker 2: that's obviously the super easy one. And then there's I

724
00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:11,479
Speaker 2: think it's the top fifteen or something. Here, how many

725
00:33:11,520 --> 00:33:11,960
Speaker 2: can you get?

726
00:33:11,960 --> 00:33:14,240
Speaker 1: All right, so you're asking me what just to put

727
00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:17,560
Speaker 1: this into English form for me to understand. Tell me

728
00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:20,040
Speaker 1: the platforms that have the most searchers and how many

729
00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:20,440
Speaker 1: they've got.

730
00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:22,360
Speaker 2: Right, I've given you that. I've given you the scale

731
00:33:22,760 --> 00:33:26,360
Speaker 2: Google thirteen billions billion?

732
00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:27,000
Speaker 1: Is that I mean?

733
00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:27,880
Speaker 2: Is that not crazy?

734
00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:30,160
Speaker 1: That is pretty It's crazy, that's actually I mean we

735
00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:32,240
Speaker 1: say it flippantly when there aren't even that many people

736
00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:32,800
Speaker 1: in the world.

737
00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:36,000
Speaker 2: It's like, and how do people connect to the internet

738
00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:38,320
Speaker 2: as well? Probably five billion maybe, so it's like three

739
00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:39,360
Speaker 2: per person per a.

740
00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:42,240
Speaker 1: Basically, are we delving into the realms of Chinese companies

741
00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:43,960
Speaker 1: as part of your list Chinese company? Well, this is

742
00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:46,200
Speaker 1: a nightmare for me. I mean, you have to think

743
00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:48,960
Speaker 1: that one of the big Chinese one like buy Do

744
00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:52,080
Speaker 1: must be somewhere. Yep, that's number three, number three. How

745
00:33:52,080 --> 00:33:52,880
Speaker 1: many how many searchers?

746
00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:53,200
Speaker 2: You reckon?

747
00:33:53,280 --> 00:33:54,160
Speaker 1: Eleven million?

748
00:33:54,280 --> 00:33:55,640
Speaker 2: No, five five billions?

749
00:33:56,200 --> 00:33:59,160
Speaker 1: So I me the belly Ye yeah, five billion, So wow,

750
00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:00,520
Speaker 1: that sounds a pretty drop.

751
00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:03,760
Speaker 2: I number two. I never would have guessed. I'm not surprised.

752
00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:05,840
Speaker 1: What about that Shaohong?

753
00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:08,120
Speaker 2: What it is that's the only Chinese one I can

754
00:34:08,160 --> 00:34:09,920
Speaker 2: see on here? Yeah? Joy times I.

755
00:34:09,920 --> 00:34:11,839
Speaker 1: Can say, so, okay, that was the only Chinese one.

756
00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:15,279
Speaker 1: So now we're back to English speaking ones number two.

757
00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:17,480
Speaker 1: Everything else looks like an English speaker. Well, Amazon will

758
00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:19,760
Speaker 1: be somewhere, but I reckon it will be five close

759
00:34:19,920 --> 00:34:22,920
Speaker 1: four okay, very close, so that will be three million

760
00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:26,320
Speaker 1: se See how you know I've said this here before.

761
00:34:26,600 --> 00:34:28,680
Speaker 1: What medical school taught me is when you don't know,

762
00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:31,120
Speaker 1: but you think, maybe say it really confidently because there's

763
00:34:31,160 --> 00:34:33,800
Speaker 1: no downside. Do you see how confident said all that?

764
00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:34,560
Speaker 1: That's amazing?

765
00:34:34,640 --> 00:34:34,839
Speaker 2: Right?

766
00:34:35,200 --> 00:34:37,240
Speaker 1: Well, no, no, no, you're definitely have ache. You're definitely

767
00:34:37,280 --> 00:34:41,799
Speaker 1: not having a all right, let's think of well meta

768
00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:42,040
Speaker 1: will be?

769
00:34:42,160 --> 00:34:44,080
Speaker 2: Is meta a combined thing? Or is it broke? O?

770
00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:47,799
Speaker 2: It's not combined, So I would have thought. I'm trying

771
00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:49,719
Speaker 2: to think about what's bigger now, Facebook or Insta. I

772
00:34:49,719 --> 00:34:52,719
Speaker 2: don't even know which one's bigger. I think Facebook is

773
00:34:52,760 --> 00:34:57,359
Speaker 2: still bigger. No, Facebook is one, two, three, four or five, six, seven,

774
00:34:57,440 --> 00:34:58,920
Speaker 2: eight nine at one point five?

775
00:34:59,080 --> 00:35:02,880
Speaker 1: Okay, well that' that's way down. Insta must be five

776
00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:07,160
Speaker 1: in number two, is it? I know you threw me

777
00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:09,200
Speaker 1: a curveball with that one because I want to do it.

778
00:35:09,239 --> 00:35:10,759
Speaker 1: Number two is hard, I know, but I don't think

779
00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:13,279
Speaker 1: that's hard. Like I'm I never thought instead of two,

780
00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:16,080
Speaker 1: why not? Just because I would have thought, yeah, like

781
00:35:16,160 --> 00:35:16,400
Speaker 1: I do.

782
00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:18,080
Speaker 2: I thought we're in higher and Amazon, I thought we

783
00:35:18,120 --> 00:35:20,319
Speaker 2: were in higher and other places that is on here,

784
00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:21,240
Speaker 2: I thought we're in higher.

785
00:35:21,360 --> 00:35:24,120
Speaker 1: So I'll tell you what's interesting about Insta being number

786
00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:28,280
Speaker 1: two versus Amazon being further down. I mean, fifty percent

787
00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:31,040
Speaker 1: of the of the US more than fifty percent is

788
00:35:31,080 --> 00:35:33,080
Speaker 1: a Prime member. By the way, I'm going to take

789
00:35:33,080 --> 00:35:35,600
Speaker 1: something interesting about Prime video in a second, but we'll

790
00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:39,560
Speaker 1: get back to that. Insta's got more users, more accounts

791
00:35:39,600 --> 00:35:43,200
Speaker 1: than Amazon, but it won't be crazily more. And the

792
00:35:43,239 --> 00:35:44,680
Speaker 1: reason is free obviously.

793
00:35:44,760 --> 00:35:44,920
Speaker 2: Yeah.

794
00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:46,920
Speaker 1: But the reason that's interesting number two is there's no

795
00:35:47,080 --> 00:35:50,960
Speaker 1: other way to interact with Amazon other than search, whereas

796
00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:53,440
Speaker 1: Insta is a lot of endless scroll. Yeah, I'm not

797
00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:56,400
Speaker 1: sure what you're searching for an Insta well, yeah, people

798
00:35:56,400 --> 00:35:59,040
Speaker 1: maybe better yeah, or things you've heard about or whatever

799
00:35:59,080 --> 00:36:01,440
Speaker 1: it is. I'm very rarely do you use instanmuch or not?

800
00:36:01,719 --> 00:36:01,959
Speaker 2: Yeah?

801
00:36:02,040 --> 00:36:04,200
Speaker 3: I use it a fair bit. I just searched for

802
00:36:04,320 --> 00:36:06,640
Speaker 3: users US just to find.

803
00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:08,759
Speaker 2: The search Google way andmplexity, way more than i'd search on.

804
00:36:08,719 --> 00:36:11,040
Speaker 1: Insta And what else is on there? I mean, we

805
00:36:11,040 --> 00:36:13,080
Speaker 1: always have to go with the biggies. Apple's got to

806
00:36:13,120 --> 00:36:14,920
Speaker 1: be somewhere on there, but probably towards the bottom.

807
00:36:15,320 --> 00:36:17,440
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, so Apple App Store is like right down

808
00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:19,400
Speaker 2: in the model of five hundred million yep, So I'm

809
00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:20,759
Speaker 2: not surprised by that that'll be there.

810
00:36:20,840 --> 00:36:23,239
Speaker 1: And then like, is do they have Android App Store

811
00:36:23,239 --> 00:36:24,080
Speaker 1: separately as well?

812
00:36:24,200 --> 00:36:27,200
Speaker 2: Google plays way higher obasly more users of Google. Yeah, one,

813
00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:29,480
Speaker 2: two three, Googles about eight at two point one? So

814
00:36:29,560 --> 00:36:31,719
Speaker 2: bad Facebook? What am I missing? And then I wonder

815
00:36:31,719 --> 00:36:34,239
Speaker 2: a number four? You're missing, number four, number six, number seven,

816
00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:35,439
Speaker 2: number eight, So.

817
00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:37,279
Speaker 1: We haven't said Microsoft, but I don't know what I'd

818
00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:37,640
Speaker 1: be searching.

819
00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:39,200
Speaker 2: There is a Microsoft property on there.

820
00:36:39,360 --> 00:36:43,200
Speaker 1: There is a Microsoft property Microsoft property linked in.

821
00:36:43,200 --> 00:36:46,120
Speaker 2: Link it in is number one, two three six at

822
00:36:46,120 --> 00:36:46,960
Speaker 2: three point two.

823
00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:49,759
Speaker 1: And what about non tech, like, what about a Walmart? No,

824
00:36:50,840 --> 00:36:52,880
Speaker 1: so Amazon's on there, but Walmart's not on there. I

825
00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:55,879
Speaker 1: think that's dubious. Wow, it's what the list says. All right, Well,

826
00:36:56,000 --> 00:36:57,680
Speaker 1: can I argue with the list? Print it out from

827
00:36:57,680 --> 00:37:01,920
Speaker 1: somewhere source undefined? Founded on the tram when you were

828
00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:03,360
Speaker 1: catching the capitalist.

829
00:37:03,520 --> 00:37:05,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, I won't give over all of them, but

830
00:37:05,640 --> 00:37:07,880
Speaker 2: number four, which is one you missed this snapchat.

831
00:37:09,520 --> 00:37:12,919
Speaker 1: I'm always shocked that snap is still a thing, like

832
00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:13,520
Speaker 1: this is.

833
00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:15,880
Speaker 2: So much money. TikTok is on there, that's what that's

834
00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:18,920
Speaker 2: down at number ten because that's more of this endless scale.

835
00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:23,160
Speaker 2: And pinterest is out number seven or eight, Yeah, that's

836
00:37:23,400 --> 00:37:24,200
Speaker 2: and Reddit's on there.

837
00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:26,440
Speaker 1: Well, I can't believe x is on there, but down

838
00:37:26,480 --> 00:37:29,680
Speaker 1: the bottom. I can't believe that snap is still so big.

839
00:37:29,840 --> 00:37:30,040
Speaker 2: Yeah.

840
00:37:30,080 --> 00:37:31,080
Speaker 1: I'm always shocked by.

841
00:37:31,400 --> 00:37:34,440
Speaker 2: Market caps, like ten ten billions drop right back. It's

842
00:37:34,480 --> 00:37:38,280
Speaker 2: almost irrelevant market cap wise. Did you see our meat

843
00:37:38,360 --> 00:37:39,080
Speaker 2: got approved?

844
00:37:39,400 --> 00:37:39,640
Speaker 1: Yes?

845
00:37:40,160 --> 00:37:42,440
Speaker 2: What are your thoughts on? This is cultured meat? Essentially

846
00:37:42,440 --> 00:37:44,719
Speaker 2: you're growing using cells, you're growing meat, So it's not

847
00:37:45,320 --> 00:37:47,840
Speaker 2: like beyond meat, which is which is made out of

848
00:37:47,960 --> 00:37:51,839
Speaker 2: pea and soil. This is actual cell based I get

849
00:37:51,880 --> 00:37:54,239
Speaker 2: it perfectly, real mate, what are you would you eat

850
00:37:54,280 --> 00:37:57,960
Speaker 2: that meal? It reminds me of growing skin cells for graphs.

851
00:37:58,080 --> 00:38:00,399
Speaker 2: That's what I think of when I was just not verytizing.

852
00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:01,239
Speaker 2: I suppose.

853
00:38:02,440 --> 00:38:06,040
Speaker 1: I eat it, I wouldn't be the first person to

854
00:38:06,120 --> 00:38:08,759
Speaker 1: eat it. I'd eat it five years later. It's like

855
00:38:08,840 --> 00:38:10,919
Speaker 1: I didn't fly the A three eighty until I saw

856
00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:13,160
Speaker 1: that land for a year and then it's like, all right,

857
00:38:13,200 --> 00:38:14,320
Speaker 1: well that stayed on the runway.

858
00:38:14,320 --> 00:38:16,560
Speaker 2: I'm happy a few times, I know.

859
00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:21,279
Speaker 1: But you know, they tested like the seven seven eight

860
00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:23,600
Speaker 1: as well, and like I wasn't that enthusiastic. I've being

861
00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:25,719
Speaker 1: the first on that either. So yeah, I think I'm

862
00:38:25,760 --> 00:38:27,520
Speaker 1: not going no issue with that. I've often thought, I'm

863
00:38:27,560 --> 00:38:30,200
Speaker 1: sure you're in this camp. Like the fact that we

864
00:38:30,840 --> 00:38:35,839
Speaker 1: are still raising and killing baby animals feels like it's

865
00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:38,799
Speaker 1: anachronistic in the time that we're living in, and so

866
00:38:38,920 --> 00:38:41,799
Speaker 1: I think fake meat, let's just call it for what

867
00:38:41,840 --> 00:38:44,600
Speaker 1: it is. I don't think that's going to be the answer,

868
00:38:44,680 --> 00:38:47,279
Speaker 1: because there's all sorts of reasons that that's not meat,

869
00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:50,680
Speaker 1: and there are evolutionary reasons why meat is good, and

870
00:38:50,719 --> 00:38:53,560
Speaker 1: so I think it would be amazing if this took off.

871
00:38:53,600 --> 00:38:55,640
Speaker 1: It just feels like it's going to be very expensive,

872
00:38:55,920 --> 00:38:56,279
Speaker 1: but then.

873
00:38:56,200 --> 00:39:02,000
Speaker 2: Again, is pretty expensive if the water intensity and it's

874
00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:05,480
Speaker 2: living in the cruelty, but it's hardly a sensible way.

875
00:39:05,640 --> 00:39:08,960
Speaker 1: So I'm very much in favor of that. I think

876
00:39:08,960 --> 00:39:11,240
Speaker 1: it will be great if they do that. I mean,

877
00:39:11,600 --> 00:39:13,640
Speaker 1: of all of the things that you could have been

878
00:39:13,880 --> 00:39:16,719
Speaker 1: in the last ten thousand years, a pig would have

879
00:39:16,760 --> 00:39:19,600
Speaker 1: to have been the worst, and like a chicken was

880
00:39:19,680 --> 00:39:21,680
Speaker 1: up there, and a cow, a lamb.

881
00:39:21,840 --> 00:39:23,640
Speaker 2: Chickens are kept in worse conditions than pigs.

882
00:39:24,160 --> 00:39:27,719
Speaker 1: But like, like you know, you look at the population

883
00:39:27,800 --> 00:39:30,600
Speaker 1: of different animals over the last ten thousand years, like

884
00:39:31,239 --> 00:39:33,479
Speaker 1: horses had a pretty big drop. It was just real,

885
00:39:33,680 --> 00:39:36,560
Speaker 1: like horses were very big, and then one hundred years

886
00:39:36,560 --> 00:39:39,319
Speaker 1: ago they started diminishing rapidly. But if you look at

887
00:39:39,320 --> 00:39:42,279
Speaker 1: the population of like in fact, I saw a statistic,

888
00:39:42,520 --> 00:39:44,480
Speaker 1: so it's not really business, but like I saw a

889
00:39:44,520 --> 00:39:46,880
Speaker 1: statistic that said, if you look at the total mass

890
00:39:46,920 --> 00:39:50,960
Speaker 1: of animals on Earth, humans account for almost nothing. It's

891
00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:53,120
Speaker 1: basically all of the food that we grow to eat,

892
00:39:53,480 --> 00:39:55,360
Speaker 1: like all of the animals we grow to eat that

893
00:39:55,520 --> 00:39:59,960
Speaker 1: is almost all of the mass of living animals on Earth.

894
00:40:00,280 --> 00:40:02,520
Speaker 1: It's crazy, isn't it. I'm all in favor of that.

895
00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:03,040
Speaker 2: Is it?

896
00:40:03,120 --> 00:40:03,920
Speaker 1: Who owns that?

897
00:40:04,440 --> 00:40:07,360
Speaker 2: Austraight own? I think some funding from VC's but I

898
00:40:07,400 --> 00:40:09,040
Speaker 2: think quite a bit of funding from VC. I think

899
00:40:09,040 --> 00:40:11,120
Speaker 2: the blackbird maybe in there. Is it going to go broke?

900
00:40:11,719 --> 00:40:13,799
Speaker 2: I think they do. I think they're doing okay, these guys.

901
00:40:14,000 --> 00:40:15,960
Speaker 2: They're doing a bit of unusual. I think like quail

902
00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:18,759
Speaker 2: and some sort of unusual type of food, So which

903
00:40:18,800 --> 00:40:20,520
Speaker 2: is which a different way to address it as opposed

904
00:40:20,560 --> 00:40:22,719
Speaker 2: to like Beyond and impossible, which went for the sausages

905
00:40:22,760 --> 00:40:25,359
Speaker 2: and hamburgers. Yeah, obviously Beyond has had a tough time.

906
00:40:25,560 --> 00:40:27,760
Speaker 2: I think that evaluations down to about two fifty million years.

907
00:40:27,760 --> 00:40:30,760
Speaker 1: Because because no, like it was that was a fad

908
00:40:30,880 --> 00:40:33,239
Speaker 1: right like basically twenty one.

909
00:40:33,120 --> 00:40:35,840
Speaker 2: When everything was a fad. But like, I still eat Beyond.

910
00:40:35,920 --> 00:40:38,359
Speaker 2: I actually beat B two sausages, I think. I think

911
00:40:38,360 --> 00:40:39,920
Speaker 2: the B two products are excellent, which is I think

912
00:40:40,200 --> 00:40:41,279
Speaker 2: owns a stake in that.

913
00:40:41,320 --> 00:40:45,200
Speaker 1: But they're not. They were kind of a solution in

914
00:40:45,239 --> 00:40:47,560
Speaker 1: search of a problem. It turned out the problem isn't

915
00:40:47,600 --> 00:40:49,799
Speaker 1: real as well, It's not as big as if you're

916
00:40:49,800 --> 00:40:52,120
Speaker 1: a vegetarian, then it's absolutely a solution. I know, Well,

917
00:40:52,120 --> 00:40:56,600
Speaker 1: maybe I said it badly. It is the TAM was misunderstood,

918
00:40:56,960 --> 00:40:58,919
Speaker 1: like the TAM was not as big as people thought

919
00:40:58,920 --> 00:41:03,200
Speaker 1: it was because people that eat meat, they're not sold

920
00:41:03,400 --> 00:41:04,720
Speaker 1: on eating these things.

921
00:41:04,719 --> 00:41:07,920
Speaker 2: I think. I think that history has proven you're right. So, Mike,

922
00:41:07,960 --> 00:41:09,879
Speaker 2: would you eat the culture stuff before?

923
00:41:09,880 --> 00:41:14,520
Speaker 3: I guess so. I'd try it just for the sake

924
00:41:14,600 --> 00:41:15,800
Speaker 3: of it, to be honest.

925
00:41:15,920 --> 00:41:17,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think in terms of the obviously it had

926
00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:20,120
Speaker 2: a lot of beyond and impossible and v stuff.

927
00:41:20,480 --> 00:41:21,360
Speaker 1: I like that stuff.

928
00:41:21,440 --> 00:41:24,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's half the calories of normal meat in San

929
00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:27,359
Speaker 2: angel Well, it depends the tree is half. Well, if

930
00:41:27,360 --> 00:41:30,480
Speaker 2: you get lean meat, it's not okay, but for a

931
00:41:30,560 --> 00:41:36,080
Speaker 2: normal But there's definitely been a very impressive rearguard action

932
00:41:36,200 --> 00:41:38,279
Speaker 2: by the big meat you could say, and they've been

933
00:41:38,280 --> 00:41:41,520
Speaker 2: able to demonize these beat what's big meat, Buffalo, No,

934
00:41:41,600 --> 00:41:45,280
Speaker 2: that big, the big elephant, elephant meat, so the whole

935
00:41:45,320 --> 00:41:48,520
Speaker 2: big meat industry, And in the US they managed to

936
00:41:48,840 --> 00:41:53,040
Speaker 2: paid lobbyists millions dollars to force in some states. I

937
00:41:53,080 --> 00:41:56,160
Speaker 2: think in ten US states you can't. You can't great

938
00:41:56,239 --> 00:41:59,520
Speaker 2: culture culture meat now, so they've done this incredible lobbyist

939
00:41:59,560 --> 00:42:01,640
Speaker 2: funded big Farmer does all the time, like it's like

940
00:42:01,840 --> 00:42:03,759
Speaker 2: a buck, big everything does. And they're pushed back on

941
00:42:03,920 --> 00:42:06,880
Speaker 2: this new technology, but because they're trying to maintain their

942
00:42:06,880 --> 00:42:09,200
Speaker 2: market position. It's just it's and it's just politicians being

943
00:42:09,239 --> 00:42:11,560
Speaker 2: bought so easily, as is always the case. And I

944
00:42:11,600 --> 00:42:13,400
Speaker 2: think it's a real shame, whether you're vegetarian or not,

945
00:42:13,600 --> 00:42:17,080
Speaker 2: that these technologies are great technologies, and I don't think

946
00:42:17,160 --> 00:42:19,719
Speaker 2: and people dancing on the grave beyond food and beyond

947
00:42:19,800 --> 00:42:22,840
Speaker 2: meats is sickening because this is a great technology that

948
00:42:23,239 --> 00:42:26,440
Speaker 2: can will certainly save animal suffering, but more importantly reduce

949
00:42:26,600 --> 00:42:27,720
Speaker 2: calorie in take for humans.

950
00:42:27,880 --> 00:42:31,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree with you. Listen, every very large incumbent

951
00:42:31,960 --> 00:42:38,840
Speaker 1: industry tries to protect itself from oblivion and so positioning. Yeah,

952
00:42:38,880 --> 00:42:41,479
Speaker 1: so that's that's what happens. Eventually they lose.

953
00:42:41,520 --> 00:42:43,640
Speaker 2: We'd hope that the politicians aren't as stupid as they are,

954
00:42:43,680 --> 00:42:45,280
Speaker 2: but they just get they forward every time.

955
00:42:45,440 --> 00:42:47,879
Speaker 1: I don't think it's an intelligence issue. I think it's

956
00:42:47,920 --> 00:42:51,879
Speaker 1: a systemic struct issue. Yeah, you know, like they want

957
00:42:51,880 --> 00:42:54,400
Speaker 1: to number one. I've said this before, the order of

958
00:42:54,440 --> 00:43:00,600
Speaker 1: most politicians get elected or re elected yea, get even yeah,

959
00:43:00,640 --> 00:43:03,880
Speaker 1: everything else that's the order, not all of them, Like

960
00:43:03,920 --> 00:43:05,520
Speaker 1: there are some really good ones that you know someone

961
00:43:05,560 --> 00:43:08,560
Speaker 1: I know some, but that's too common in politics. Definitely.

962
00:43:08,719 --> 00:43:11,279
Speaker 1: Let me tell you about an acquisition. It's we're going

963
00:43:11,320 --> 00:43:15,240
Speaker 1: to talk about business stuff again about business. Well, that's true.

964
00:43:15,520 --> 00:43:17,000
Speaker 1: I think you're going to quite like this because we're

965
00:43:17,000 --> 00:43:19,719
Speaker 1: going to stick to the food industry. So DoorDash has

966
00:43:19,760 --> 00:43:21,880
Speaker 1: been buying a lot of stuff. You talked about it

967
00:43:21,880 --> 00:43:23,560
Speaker 1: a few weeks ago. The point we didn't talk about

968
00:43:23,600 --> 00:43:28,319
Speaker 1: this acquisition, which I thought was very interesting. So this

969
00:43:28,480 --> 00:43:32,040
Speaker 1: is an acquisition in a strange area that you enjoy

970
00:43:32,120 --> 00:43:32,800
Speaker 1: talking about.

971
00:43:32,880 --> 00:43:37,520
Speaker 2: So did you see Luke Spami's process power, no powers?

972
00:43:38,640 --> 00:43:42,880
Speaker 1: So doorday supports something called Symbiosis for one hundred and

973
00:43:42,920 --> 00:43:45,520
Speaker 1: seventy five million dollars. Did you see that acquisition? You

974
00:43:46,280 --> 00:43:50,040
Speaker 1: are going to love this story. So, well, this is

975
00:43:50,040 --> 00:43:52,719
Speaker 1: what syven doesn't have process power, it has one hundred

976
00:43:52,760 --> 00:43:55,360
Speaker 1: and seventy five million dollars. So this is what this

977
00:43:55,440 --> 00:43:59,680
Speaker 1: business does. It is retail media. It is a very

978
00:44:00,120 --> 00:44:03,279
Speaker 1: range kind of retail media. Firstly, how about this for

979
00:44:03,320 --> 00:44:06,840
Speaker 1: a question, have a guess how big door Dashers retail

980
00:44:06,920 --> 00:44:09,360
Speaker 1: media businesses. So I say retail media. It's like what

981
00:44:09,360 --> 00:44:11,400
Speaker 1: you see in uber eats. When you're gonna look on

982
00:44:11,400 --> 00:44:14,160
Speaker 1: the platform, you see ads from other rests, from rest

983
00:44:14,160 --> 00:44:17,160
Speaker 1: options like aid thing, like what Amazon does with their marketplace.

984
00:44:17,200 --> 00:44:17,839
Speaker 1: What do you think there?

985
00:44:17,960 --> 00:44:20,560
Speaker 2: I hear I've heard someone that was very big.

986
00:44:20,800 --> 00:44:24,760
Speaker 1: So door Dasher's twenty twenty four revenue was about eleven

987
00:44:24,920 --> 00:44:27,680
Speaker 1: billion dollars. By the way, it grew twenty four percent.

988
00:44:27,719 --> 00:44:28,440
Speaker 1: Pretty impressive.

989
00:44:28,560 --> 00:44:31,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, I reckon media might be two billion.

990
00:44:31,160 --> 00:44:34,120
Speaker 1: So a billion, so it's like almost ten percent of

991
00:44:34,120 --> 00:44:34,640
Speaker 1: their revenue.

992
00:44:34,840 --> 00:44:36,799
Speaker 2: Their earning is probably one hundred percent. I mean yeah,

993
00:44:36,800 --> 00:44:38,799
Speaker 2: well there's no cost associated with it, and so no

994
00:44:38,920 --> 00:44:41,160
Speaker 2: as in I probably make nothing apart from the retail media.

995
00:44:41,200 --> 00:44:42,279
Speaker 2: It's poke chemists, way house sta.

996
00:44:42,600 --> 00:44:46,000
Speaker 1: So Doordash's net income until the end of March this year.

997
00:44:46,040 --> 00:44:49,400
Speaker 1: That's probably their fiscal year was three hundred and thirty

998
00:44:49,480 --> 00:44:54,840
Speaker 1: nine billion, so income, it's all more of their income, right, Yes,

999
00:44:54,840 --> 00:44:55,279
Speaker 1: that's right.

1000
00:44:55,760 --> 00:44:56,759
Speaker 2: Stage ten probability.

1001
00:44:56,840 --> 00:44:58,600
Speaker 1: I mean, isn't this I mean, I'm going to talk

1002
00:44:58,600 --> 00:45:00,919
Speaker 1: about this inquisition because it's a very usual retail media

1003
00:45:00,920 --> 00:45:03,359
Speaker 1: acquisition and it's strange that do I shport it? But like,

1004
00:45:04,040 --> 00:45:07,279
Speaker 1: isn't it unbelievable that you have all of these businesses

1005
00:45:07,680 --> 00:45:10,359
Speaker 1: we can broadly call the marketplaces, but I'm just using

1006
00:45:10,360 --> 00:45:13,440
Speaker 1: that word to encompass third party retail as well, basically

1007
00:45:13,520 --> 00:45:17,000
Speaker 1: shops that sell other people's stuff, and all of a sudden,

1008
00:45:17,080 --> 00:45:21,799
Speaker 1: all of their profitability is coming from running ads for

1009
00:45:21,840 --> 00:45:24,480
Speaker 1: those And if I would have gone back thirty years

1010
00:45:24,960 --> 00:45:27,160
Speaker 1: and said to Maya, I've got a new way for

1011
00:45:27,200 --> 00:45:29,000
Speaker 1: you to make money. You know how you buy all

1012
00:45:29,000 --> 00:45:32,160
Speaker 1: this infantry and you sell it, well, you should also

1013
00:45:32,400 --> 00:45:35,440
Speaker 1: charge companies for running ads, and they would say, well,

1014
00:45:35,480 --> 00:45:38,160
Speaker 1: we do charge them for position, which they.

1015
00:45:38,040 --> 00:45:40,920
Speaker 2: Do, like they've done in different ways, but am I

1016
00:45:41,160 --> 00:45:42,160
Speaker 2: chance for concessions?

1017
00:45:42,239 --> 00:45:45,120
Speaker 1: And well, one hundred percent of profitability coming from them

1018
00:45:45,160 --> 00:45:45,759
Speaker 1: is pretty new.

1019
00:45:45,800 --> 00:45:49,680
Speaker 2: We never knew Hammuck and supermarkets have been hitting supplies

1020
00:45:49,719 --> 00:45:51,879
Speaker 2: up for this catalog position for many years. So again

1021
00:45:52,080 --> 00:45:56,520
Speaker 2: not new, and will was obviously Cartology was one of

1022
00:45:56,800 --> 00:46:00,440
Speaker 2: the first retail media businesses in Australia. But so let

1023
00:46:00,440 --> 00:46:03,520
Speaker 2: me tell you why this particular business is interesting other

1024
00:46:03,600 --> 00:46:05,680
Speaker 2: than so I found this. You know, they've done a

1025
00:46:05,719 --> 00:46:08,000
Speaker 2: lot of acquisitions recently. I thought this was the most

1026
00:46:08,040 --> 00:46:12,879
Speaker 2: fascinating acquisition. So this is how this particular business works.

1027
00:46:12,920 --> 00:46:16,520
Speaker 2: It does not come from the restaurant or hospitality industry

1028
00:46:16,600 --> 00:46:19,799
Speaker 2: at all. This is what it does. If you are

1029
00:46:20,320 --> 00:46:22,520
Speaker 2: Mecca or it's probably not in Australia.

1030
00:46:22,560 --> 00:46:26,120
Speaker 1: So if you are Sephora, you're selling stuff that is

1031
00:46:26,120 --> 00:46:28,879
Speaker 1: made by Looreal. And so think about what it looks

1032
00:46:28,920 --> 00:46:32,280
Speaker 1: like on Google when somebody searches for a Looreal product.

1033
00:46:32,719 --> 00:46:36,240
Speaker 1: Loreal is probably running ads and Sephora is running ads

1034
00:46:36,400 --> 00:46:39,319
Speaker 1: and they're competing against each other. But if you click

1035
00:46:39,360 --> 00:46:41,319
Speaker 1: on the Lorreal ad, what do they have to do that?

1036
00:46:41,360 --> 00:46:43,840
Speaker 1: And sell direct? So they have to tell you information

1037
00:46:43,880 --> 00:46:46,279
Speaker 1: about the product and then send you somewhere to buy it.

1038
00:46:46,280 --> 00:46:49,840
Speaker 1: It's very inefficient and so it's not easy to figure

1039
00:46:49,840 --> 00:46:52,000
Speaker 1: out what this company does and how they do it.

1040
00:46:52,040 --> 00:46:54,799
Speaker 1: But by my understanding, my take on it is what

1041
00:46:54,880 --> 00:46:59,480
Speaker 1: Symbiosis effectively does is lets the retailer and the product

1042
00:46:59,520 --> 00:47:04,400
Speaker 1: man effact sure are collectively ascribe money to add campaigns

1043
00:47:05,040 --> 00:47:08,120
Speaker 1: so that they can bid together on terms and have

1044
00:47:08,280 --> 00:47:11,359
Speaker 1: much more efficient acquisition. I mean that that's amazing, right,

1045
00:47:11,400 --> 00:47:14,480
Speaker 1: Like that is so smart. Now God knows what's going

1046
00:47:14,520 --> 00:47:15,600
Speaker 1: to do with it. I think they're just trying to

1047
00:47:15,600 --> 00:47:19,680
Speaker 1: find ways to get more money from their restaurant's marketing

1048
00:47:19,800 --> 00:47:22,239
Speaker 1: off their own platform. So I think they're gonna, like,

1049
00:47:22,520 --> 00:47:24,160
Speaker 1: I don't know what they're gonna partner with them to

1050
00:47:24,200 --> 00:47:27,160
Speaker 1: advertise when someone searches Mexican or something on Google.

1051
00:47:27,320 --> 00:47:29,560
Speaker 2: I guess they want. Let's say you've got lukes ban

1052
00:47:29,719 --> 00:47:33,080
Speaker 2: me and it's it's on Uber eats and door Dash

1053
00:47:33,120 --> 00:47:36,080
Speaker 2: and at the two now I think and they're going

1054
00:47:36,080 --> 00:47:38,040
Speaker 2: so instead of having ubres come up and it'll just be

1055
00:47:38,120 --> 00:47:41,600
Speaker 2: the door dash one comes up inverted commas with lukes

1056
00:47:41,640 --> 00:47:44,759
Speaker 2: bar me, so they cut out, they cut out Uber Eats.

1057
00:47:44,760 --> 00:47:45,600
Speaker 2: I think we'll be intent.

1058
00:47:45,800 --> 00:47:48,520
Speaker 1: And so the thing is this though said they're only

1059
00:47:48,520 --> 00:47:51,960
Speaker 1: going to charge on a CPA basis, So once a

1060
00:47:52,040 --> 00:47:54,880
Speaker 1: customer has purchased from lux ban me, I get the

1061
00:47:54,880 --> 00:47:57,200
Speaker 1: feeling you've are really invested in lux ban me. You're

1062
00:47:57,239 --> 00:48:01,680
Speaker 1: talking about it to declare your interests on this show

1063
00:48:03,080 --> 00:48:06,480
Speaker 1: and so and so. If door She's going to do that,

1064
00:48:06,760 --> 00:48:09,239
Speaker 1: then you know they're taking arbitragure risk because if they

1065
00:48:09,239 --> 00:48:11,080
Speaker 1: go and advertise on Google and they only charge on

1066
00:48:11,120 --> 00:48:13,640
Speaker 1: a CPA basis, I mean that's a dangerous game to play.

1067
00:48:13,680 --> 00:48:16,160
Speaker 2: We should have CPAs adjustable though, so they're seeing what

1068
00:48:16,239 --> 00:48:19,319
Speaker 2: problems they're just charging it. Give me show top.

1069
00:48:19,400 --> 00:48:21,239
Speaker 1: The problem with that model is that looks. The last

1070
00:48:21,280 --> 00:48:23,920
Speaker 1: thing looks by me wants is to be like have

1071
00:48:24,160 --> 00:48:25,360
Speaker 1: orders coming through door dash.

1072
00:48:26,400 --> 00:48:27,960
Speaker 2: That's the problem, and that's another reason my doors are

1073
00:48:28,000 --> 00:48:29,400
Speaker 2: doing it to get a share of Rolet.

1074
00:48:29,520 --> 00:48:31,880
Speaker 1: But isn't that I think that's a very interesting acquisition.

1075
00:48:31,920 --> 00:48:34,600
Speaker 1: And we're going to talk about acquisitions more, I guess soon.

1076
00:48:34,760 --> 00:48:37,400
Speaker 1: But let me tell you another couple of quick and interesting things. Okay,

1077
00:48:37,800 --> 00:48:40,640
Speaker 1: I'll take something very quickly. First, Prime Video. How do

1078
00:48:40,680 --> 00:48:42,759
Speaker 1: you get Prime Video? How do you get access to

1079
00:48:42,800 --> 00:48:46,640
Speaker 1: Amazon Prime if you pay for Prime? Fantastic? Well, it

1080
00:48:46,719 --> 00:48:50,480
Speaker 1: turns out Amazon wants more money a lah Google, and

1081
00:48:50,560 --> 00:48:52,879
Speaker 1: so instead of just jacking the price of Prime, which

1082
00:48:52,920 --> 00:48:56,000
Speaker 1: by the way, they do frequently as well. I was

1083
00:48:56,120 --> 00:48:59,000
Speaker 1: watching Prime recently and guess what came on to my

1084
00:48:59,120 --> 00:49:02,799
Speaker 1: screen and it said get rid of the ads. So

1085
00:49:02,880 --> 00:49:05,839
Speaker 1: I clicked it. And have you had this experience, Mike, I.

1086
00:49:05,800 --> 00:49:09,160
Speaker 3: Don't use Amazon Prime video your Prime. I am a

1087
00:49:09,160 --> 00:49:11,880
Speaker 3: Prime member. I just I just have never really so much.

1088
00:49:11,880 --> 00:49:13,759
Speaker 1: That I'm trying to remember what I was watching. I

1089
00:49:13,760 --> 00:49:17,520
Speaker 1: think I was watching Office, the American version of the Office,

1090
00:49:17,640 --> 00:49:20,080
Speaker 1: right anyway, so I click on it. There used to

1091
00:49:20,080 --> 00:49:22,040
Speaker 1: be a Netflix Day may they brought it well on

1092
00:49:22,080 --> 00:49:24,000
Speaker 1: top of I think they move around all that, right

1093
00:49:24,239 --> 00:49:26,680
Speaker 1: on top of the whatever hundred dollars that I'm paying

1094
00:49:26,680 --> 00:49:28,799
Speaker 1: for Amazon Prime, which we can insider.

1095
00:49:28,800 --> 00:49:30,680
Speaker 2: Pay for video. You pay for Amazon Prime and you.

1096
00:49:30,600 --> 00:49:32,759
Speaker 1: Get that's right, and we can insert another ad for

1097
00:49:33,120 --> 00:49:36,120
Speaker 1: Amex Platinum and say, you know, they like like they

1098
00:49:36,160 --> 00:49:38,600
Speaker 1: pay for Prime if you've got a plan. That's one

1099
00:49:38,640 --> 00:49:38,839
Speaker 1: of the.

1100
00:49:38,800 --> 00:49:41,279
Speaker 2: Purposes Platinum on the personal Platinum, right, Well, one of

1101
00:49:41,280 --> 00:49:43,000
Speaker 2: the perks of the Personal Platinum is they pay for someone.

1102
00:49:44,800 --> 00:49:47,520
Speaker 3: It's actually similar as well to our discussion last week

1103
00:49:47,560 --> 00:49:51,160
Speaker 3: on YouTube Premium, a lot of people commented on LinkedIn

1104
00:49:51,320 --> 00:49:53,920
Speaker 3: that one of the perks they get is YouTube music.

1105
00:49:54,040 --> 00:49:55,960
Speaker 1: Yes, that's me as well, use YouTube.

1106
00:49:56,040 --> 00:49:58,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, actually that was you that commented on and a

1107
00:49:58,480 --> 00:49:59,600
Speaker 3: few other people.

1108
00:50:00,160 --> 00:50:03,759
Speaker 1: Why I commented on the pod and then some people said, yeah, I.

1109
00:50:03,840 --> 00:50:05,919
Speaker 3: Did a post on LinkedIn and a few people said,

1110
00:50:05,960 --> 00:50:07,279
Speaker 3: I YouTube.

1111
00:50:07,040 --> 00:50:09,080
Speaker 2: Music, and so your music like Spotify.

1112
00:50:09,520 --> 00:50:14,239
Speaker 1: Yes, it's basically just same a worse version of basically

1113
00:50:14,320 --> 00:50:15,759
Speaker 1: and so guess what if I want to get rid

1114
00:50:15,760 --> 00:50:18,560
Speaker 1: of ads on Prime, It's another four dollars a month.

1115
00:50:19,200 --> 00:50:20,680
Speaker 1: And so then I started thinking.

1116
00:50:20,480 --> 00:50:22,200
Speaker 2: I shudn't find that to be unreasoning. What do you mean,

1117
00:50:22,239 --> 00:50:24,040
Speaker 2: you know, find it to be unrea you're paying for

1118
00:50:24,120 --> 00:50:26,120
Speaker 2: video you're getting free with Amazon Prime? You would you

1119
00:50:26,120 --> 00:50:27,960
Speaker 2: would have paid for Prime anyway. I'll tell you what

1120
00:50:28,000 --> 00:50:29,799
Speaker 2: the problem with your argument is. I can tell you

1121
00:50:29,840 --> 00:50:34,279
Speaker 2: definitively that the Amazon view of Prime is chuck as

1122
00:50:34,360 --> 00:50:36,520
Speaker 2: much stuff as you can into it to make it

1123
00:50:36,560 --> 00:50:39,800
Speaker 2: a complete no brainer. So everybody pays for it forever

1124
00:50:40,280 --> 00:50:43,160
Speaker 2: because the effect that it has on retail sales is insane.

1125
00:50:44,120 --> 00:50:47,040
Speaker 2: I agree with you, vb Z Prime. I'm talking about

1126
00:50:47,040 --> 00:50:50,480
Speaker 2: Prime Video specifically, and I think because it's pretty shit,

1127
00:50:50,880 --> 00:50:52,400
Speaker 2: I don't think people value with that much. So I

1128
00:50:52,400 --> 00:50:54,839
Speaker 2: don't think that actually helps the stickiness of Prime. Well,

1129
00:50:54,880 --> 00:50:58,040
Speaker 2: I disagree with that. And also, like, so let's say

1130
00:50:58,280 --> 00:51:00,960
Speaker 2: how much you since missus mays like barey watched Amazon

1131
00:51:01,000 --> 00:51:03,000
Speaker 2: Prime Video, will you watch that? I mean it's like

1132
00:51:03,200 --> 00:51:05,279
Speaker 2: fifty dollars. Another fifty dollars a year is almost the

1133
00:51:05,280 --> 00:51:07,520
Speaker 2: cost of get I never watched Prime, all right, But

1134
00:51:07,560 --> 00:51:09,520
Speaker 2: the point is not. I know that this is hard.

1135
00:51:09,520 --> 00:51:11,800
Speaker 2: It's just like seven am, Mark's way cheaper than Netflix.

1136
00:51:11,920 --> 00:51:14,840
Speaker 1: This is hard for you to believe Amazon is not

1137
00:51:15,040 --> 00:51:21,640
Speaker 1: solely basic its model around. But talking about Jeff, because

1138
00:51:21,640 --> 00:51:24,320
Speaker 1: there's many Jeffs, but there's two but Jeff.

1139
00:51:24,239 --> 00:51:26,040
Speaker 2: Jeff Wiggles and Jeff from basis no.

1140
00:51:26,040 --> 00:51:31,120
Speaker 1: No, but like Jeff Bezos is a long way in

1141
00:51:31,200 --> 00:51:34,680
Speaker 1: the distance with this, like this company which is just

1142
00:51:34,880 --> 00:51:38,279
Speaker 1: make it amazing in Venice, just well, just well, that's right,

1143
00:51:38,480 --> 00:51:41,279
Speaker 1: just like you know, Amazon was just making amazing for

1144
00:51:41,320 --> 00:51:44,160
Speaker 1: customers and that's how we're going to make money. And

1145
00:51:44,200 --> 00:51:46,000
Speaker 1: progressively things have gotten worse and worse.

1146
00:51:46,040 --> 00:51:50,440
Speaker 2: Worst, Amazon retail, Amazon retip parents is almost unusable, so bad, terrible.

1147
00:51:50,440 --> 00:51:53,239
Speaker 2: It's like ninety percent ads come on Amazon. Well, if

1148
00:51:53,239 --> 00:51:54,080
Speaker 2: you need a fifty games.

1149
00:51:54,080 --> 00:51:56,200
Speaker 1: Well, and so I also thought, let's say they're are

1150
00:51:56,239 --> 00:51:58,080
Speaker 1: like I don't know how many Amazon subscribers there are

1151
00:51:58,080 --> 00:52:01,240
Speaker 1: in the world, prime five hundred million, let's say, because

1152
00:52:01,560 --> 00:52:03,759
Speaker 1: at least yeah, and so what percentage you're going to

1153
00:52:03,760 --> 00:52:05,960
Speaker 1: sign up to this one percent? Let's say we'll get

1154
00:52:06,000 --> 00:52:09,280
Speaker 1: rid of the ads? Well, that's the usual.

1155
00:52:09,440 --> 00:52:12,000
Speaker 2: What's the YouTube subscription levels for YouTube? Prep?

1156
00:52:12,880 --> 00:52:14,920
Speaker 1: They don't release them. But like you could say this

1157
00:52:15,680 --> 00:52:20,560
Speaker 1: one percent is a pretty typical freemium subscription. It can

1158
00:52:20,600 --> 00:52:23,120
Speaker 1: be a few percent, but considering people like you don't

1159
00:52:23,120 --> 00:52:27,000
Speaker 1: even think Prime video is worth anything, let's say one percent,

1160
00:52:27,040 --> 00:52:29,120
Speaker 1: and let's say it's half a billion people. That's five

1161
00:52:29,160 --> 00:52:34,239
Speaker 1: million people making four dollars a month. Yeah, twenty million dollars.

1162
00:52:34,280 --> 00:52:35,680
Speaker 1: The hell is the point of that?

1163
00:52:36,200 --> 00:52:38,640
Speaker 2: Just for me to rant about it on a podcast

1164
00:52:39,280 --> 00:52:43,320
Speaker 2: like ridiculous. They've had a great success with our ad platform,

1165
00:52:43,360 --> 00:52:45,560
Speaker 2: but it's a very different business to Amazon Prime video.

1166
00:52:45,880 --> 00:52:49,440
Speaker 1: Well their business is that is that business? Yeah, totally Amazon.

1167
00:52:49,480 --> 00:52:51,080
Speaker 1: This is just all meant to be. So I just

1168
00:52:51,239 --> 00:52:54,399
Speaker 1: mindlessly keep clicking by now like.

1169
00:52:54,719 --> 00:52:57,560
Speaker 2: My can to that is like I never watched prime video,

1170
00:52:57,800 --> 00:53:00,799
Speaker 2: so check adds on. Don't keep my primes lower? Is

1171
00:53:00,800 --> 00:53:03,279
Speaker 2: my preference? Well, they're not going to reduce your prime

1172
00:53:03,320 --> 00:53:06,680
Speaker 2: subject Well, they're not going to do that either. They're

1173
00:53:06,719 --> 00:53:08,959
Speaker 2: going to do everything. I don't know if you've worked

1174
00:53:08,960 --> 00:53:12,800
Speaker 2: this out, but they love money, like that's the most

1175
00:53:13,239 --> 00:53:16,520
Speaker 2: enjoyed things their favorite thing money and like if they

1176
00:53:16,520 --> 00:53:19,400
Speaker 2: can make more money, but that was it wasn't the case.

1177
00:53:19,400 --> 00:53:21,799
Speaker 1: That's right, that's right. So I'm saying that that's the

1178
00:53:21,840 --> 00:53:24,360
Speaker 1: fundamental difference. Okay, here's a question you've got to answer.

1179
00:53:24,400 --> 00:53:26,520
Speaker 1: You can answer this question as well. What do you

1180
00:53:26,560 --> 00:53:28,960
Speaker 1: I've been thinking about this quite a bit because you

1181
00:53:29,000 --> 00:53:36,400
Speaker 1: know the book came out written by it's called Careless People, Yes, correct.

1182
00:53:35,880 --> 00:53:37,080
Speaker 3: Sarah winn Williams yea.

1183
00:53:37,560 --> 00:53:38,960
Speaker 2: And there was the other one and that was one

1184
00:53:38,960 --> 00:53:41,160
Speaker 2: they pseudo for and got my more publicity than.

1185
00:53:42,480 --> 00:53:44,280
Speaker 1: Your beloved Strides and Defect.

1186
00:53:44,560 --> 00:53:47,040
Speaker 2: Yeah. Do you ever read Chaos Monkeys? Which is that

1187
00:53:47,120 --> 00:53:47,840
Speaker 2: was great book?

1188
00:53:49,000 --> 00:53:51,839
Speaker 1: And so you read these books? I haven't read them,

1189
00:53:51,840 --> 00:53:54,719
Speaker 1: but I've read snippets of them. Whatever, And like you know,

1190
00:53:54,960 --> 00:53:57,279
Speaker 1: terrible things are going on in meta like we talked

1191
00:53:57,280 --> 00:54:01,640
Speaker 1: about it before, targeting young girls that seem to be depressed,

1192
00:54:01,719 --> 00:54:03,880
Speaker 1: right for example, with ads and stuff. And so I

1193
00:54:03,880 --> 00:54:07,120
Speaker 1: was thinking about this. What do you think is a

1194
00:54:07,120 --> 00:54:11,040
Speaker 1: bigger health risk to a sixteen year old kid today?

1195
00:54:12,000 --> 00:54:16,520
Speaker 1: Smoking or being on these social media platforms? Which is

1196
00:54:16,520 --> 00:54:17,680
Speaker 1: a bigger health risk?

1197
00:54:18,800 --> 00:54:21,880
Speaker 2: I mean there's more chance for quick death on the

1198
00:54:22,080 --> 00:54:24,920
Speaker 2: social media for sure, and smoking as much slower there.

1199
00:54:25,080 --> 00:54:26,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm not sure they're less dangerous.

1200
00:54:26,960 --> 00:54:29,239
Speaker 2: Question, what would you rather your child beyond the other

1201
00:54:29,239 --> 00:54:30,840
Speaker 2: thing is smoke is much more likely to kill you

1202
00:54:30,880 --> 00:54:33,879
Speaker 2: than social media. Like social media is bad for really

1203
00:54:33,880 --> 00:54:36,720
Speaker 2: bad for a time, So the smoking is bad for everyone.

1204
00:54:36,760 --> 00:54:40,160
Speaker 1: Well, the mortality of smoking is bad, right, and like

1205
00:54:40,200 --> 00:54:42,480
Speaker 1: there is morbidity like sickness with it as well, And

1206
00:54:42,719 --> 00:54:45,400
Speaker 1: you can't smoke cigarettes and not get some morbidity in

1207
00:54:45,400 --> 00:54:47,439
Speaker 1: two chances of dying from a smoking and also you're

1208
00:54:47,440 --> 00:54:49,520
Speaker 1: going to have like you'll have something and for same

1209
00:54:49,600 --> 00:54:51,279
Speaker 1: or if you do it or whatever. But like the

1210
00:54:51,320 --> 00:54:54,399
Speaker 1: morbidity from social media is pretty bad, like in terms

1211
00:54:54,440 --> 00:54:56,719
Speaker 1: of what it does to your life, your relationships, et cetera.

1212
00:54:56,920 --> 00:54:59,560
Speaker 1: Like it might not be X is worse than why,

1213
00:54:59,680 --> 00:55:02,720
Speaker 1: But I I definitely think that that people should start

1214
00:55:02,840 --> 00:55:05,520
Speaker 1: thinking about them in a similar context now and saying

1215
00:55:05,719 --> 00:55:07,000
Speaker 1: this is a real health res question.

1216
00:55:07,680 --> 00:55:10,439
Speaker 2: That's why Alberti's comes bringing in social media by both

1217
00:55:10,560 --> 00:55:13,040
Speaker 2: both parties. Social media band that everybody but the far

1218
00:55:13,160 --> 00:55:16,200
Speaker 2: left seems to like yep, So I look, I've been

1219
00:55:16,200 --> 00:55:18,680
Speaker 2: thinking about that quite a bit, and I think, like

1220
00:55:18,880 --> 00:55:21,279
Speaker 2: maybe you can say I'm naive and I did just

1221
00:55:21,320 --> 00:55:24,000
Speaker 2: say all of these companies just care about money, which

1222
00:55:24,040 --> 00:55:27,080
Speaker 2: is true, but like it has been shocking to me

1223
00:55:27,239 --> 00:55:30,359
Speaker 2: to see the allegations that have been made against Facebook

1224
00:55:30,800 --> 00:55:34,520
Speaker 2: in that book like astonishing. I think the problem with

1225
00:55:34,560 --> 00:55:36,560
Speaker 2: her is she's she's somewhat.

1226
00:55:36,480 --> 00:55:38,200
Speaker 1: She might have been honest witness, right.

1227
00:55:38,640 --> 00:55:41,080
Speaker 2: There's the issues around her her that I think probably

1228
00:55:42,040 --> 00:55:45,319
Speaker 2: make that book less credible than otherwise could have been.

1229
00:55:45,440 --> 00:55:47,440
Speaker 2: But there's no doubt that Facebook has been right for

1230
00:55:47,600 --> 00:55:49,200
Speaker 2: criticized for a lot of the things they do, and

1231
00:55:49,320 --> 00:55:52,480
Speaker 2: Zach's been criticized, and I think I think to that credit,

1232
00:55:52,520 --> 00:55:54,560
Speaker 2: they have fixed up a chunk of it. I don't

1233
00:55:54,560 --> 00:55:56,399
Speaker 2: think it's anyone there as bad as it was five

1234
00:55:56,480 --> 00:55:59,000
Speaker 2: years ago. But yeah, so you're certainly right. That's it's

1235
00:55:59,000 --> 00:56:01,360
Speaker 2: a really good question. What's it's not good for you?

1236
00:56:01,400 --> 00:56:03,520
Speaker 2: That's for sure, it's not good for you. And then

1237
00:56:03,600 --> 00:56:05,080
Speaker 2: we'll go to a quick grag. We've got some really

1238
00:56:05,320 --> 00:56:09,000
Speaker 2: great stories coming up. Stick with us in today's digital landscape,

1239
00:56:09,200 --> 00:56:12,680
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1240
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1241
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1259
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1260
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1262
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1263
00:57:37,520 --> 00:57:40,320
Speaker 2: you had some news come from the world of catapults,

1264
00:57:40,320 --> 00:57:46,160
Speaker 2: Australia's latest unicorn. What's happening down from Boston and Rich Cremornway.

1265
00:57:46,560 --> 00:57:50,200
Speaker 1: Well, I think what you're referring to is an acquisition

1266
00:57:50,280 --> 00:57:53,640
Speaker 1: that we made last week, which is not a huge

1267
00:57:53,800 --> 00:57:55,720
Speaker 1: It was not a huge acquisition. We bought a company

1268
00:57:55,760 --> 00:57:59,520
Speaker 1: called Perch, which is actually MIT grads. We've been kind

1269
00:57:59,520 --> 00:58:07,240
Speaker 1: of building this I'm hesitant to say these letters AI technology,

1270
00:58:07,600 --> 00:58:10,320
Speaker 1: but they've been building it. It's basically computer vision technology

1271
00:58:10,360 --> 00:58:12,400
Speaker 1: with a bit of another layer of sitting on top

1272
00:58:12,440 --> 00:58:12,640
Speaker 1: of it.

1273
00:58:13,120 --> 00:58:14,600
Speaker 2: How do you find these acquisitions?

1274
00:58:14,880 --> 00:58:16,040
Speaker 1: So let me I'll tell you what this is. And

1275
00:58:16,080 --> 00:58:19,160
Speaker 1: that's a great question. And I thought like it's interesting

1276
00:58:19,240 --> 00:58:21,800
Speaker 1: because I think this is interesting to talk about, not

1277
00:58:21,840 --> 00:58:24,840
Speaker 1: so much Catapult because it's a relatively small acquisition, but

1278
00:58:26,080 --> 00:58:28,440
Speaker 1: most of the people listening to this podcast are not

1279
00:58:28,840 --> 00:58:32,200
Speaker 1: really involved in acquisitions, and it is quite interesting to

1280
00:58:32,240 --> 00:58:34,600
Speaker 1: think about these acquisitions. I mean, this business for us

1281
00:58:34,680 --> 00:58:37,919
Speaker 1: is interesting because when you think about what Catapult does,

1282
00:58:37,960 --> 00:58:41,240
Speaker 1: a lot of what we do is help athletes maximize

1283
00:58:41,440 --> 00:58:44,480
Speaker 1: practice like training, and one of the key things that

1284
00:58:44,520 --> 00:58:46,720
Speaker 1: they do is spend time in the gym, like that's

1285
00:58:46,920 --> 00:58:48,560
Speaker 1: universal across everything.

1286
00:58:49,280 --> 00:58:50,120
Speaker 2: In the gym itself.

1287
00:58:50,160 --> 00:58:52,280
Speaker 1: Well, and so that's what this acquisition was. And so

1288
00:58:52,360 --> 00:58:54,880
Speaker 1: mostly it was just out in the field it is, right,

1289
00:58:54,920 --> 00:58:56,800
Speaker 1: And now it's like, well, what else are they doing

1290
00:58:56,840 --> 00:58:57,880
Speaker 1: in practice.

1291
00:58:57,720 --> 00:58:59,520
Speaker 2: When they're not training at home? Can they use it?

1292
00:59:00,040 --> 00:59:00,200
Speaker 2: You know?

1293
00:59:00,280 --> 00:59:02,360
Speaker 1: These are all interesting questions because I think we're the

1294
00:59:02,440 --> 00:59:06,640
Speaker 1: logical parent, let's call it, for everything that goes on

1295
00:59:07,160 --> 00:59:11,400
Speaker 1: to maximize the practice, training, conditioning, et cetera of the

1296
00:59:11,440 --> 00:59:14,480
Speaker 1: athlete in the catapult platform. And so we had a

1297
00:59:14,480 --> 00:59:16,840
Speaker 1: hole in the gym basically in terms of what we

1298
00:59:16,880 --> 00:59:19,960
Speaker 1: could provide. There's lots of alternatives. I mean, maybe you've

1299
00:59:19,960 --> 00:59:21,720
Speaker 1: never thought about the fact that you want to measure

1300
00:59:21,760 --> 00:59:25,960
Speaker 1: stuff in a gym, because athletes are doing training that

1301
00:59:26,120 --> 00:59:29,360
Speaker 1: is directly correlated to all of the other practice and

1302
00:59:29,400 --> 00:59:32,240
Speaker 1: training that they're doing. And so historically they used to

1303
00:59:32,280 --> 00:59:35,560
Speaker 1: attach cables to weights and so they would be able

1304
00:59:35,640 --> 00:59:38,080
Speaker 1: to measure the force, et cetera. And then they tried

1305
00:59:38,120 --> 00:59:41,400
Speaker 1: to use accelerometers or if they put a strap on

1306
00:59:41,480 --> 00:59:44,600
Speaker 1: a bar bell, and like it's called velocity based training,

1307
00:59:44,640 --> 00:59:49,520
Speaker 1: so how fast you lifted, But it's cumbersome and not

1308
00:59:49,640 --> 00:59:53,320
Speaker 1: so fantastic, and so we have been looking around, and

1309
00:59:53,520 --> 00:59:56,720
Speaker 1: you know, basically the way it works is we formulate

1310
00:59:56,760 --> 00:59:59,480
Speaker 1: a strategic view at the board level with management, what

1311
00:59:59,560 --> 01:00:01,360
Speaker 1: do we want the business to look like in three

1312
01:00:01,360 --> 01:00:03,920
Speaker 1: to five years time, What are the interesting what are

1313
01:00:03,920 --> 01:00:06,240
Speaker 1: the bits that we should build out, What are the

1314
01:00:06,280 --> 01:00:09,000
Speaker 1: interesting holes that we've got that we might want to add.

1315
01:00:09,280 --> 01:00:11,160
Speaker 1: And we identified that this was a whole, and then

1316
01:00:11,280 --> 01:00:14,439
Speaker 1: the question is what's the best way to fill that hole?

1317
01:00:14,480 --> 01:00:16,360
Speaker 1: Because we care a lot about the quality of tech,

1318
01:00:16,400 --> 01:00:18,920
Speaker 1: obviously being a tech company, and so we want to

1319
01:00:19,040 --> 01:00:22,360
Speaker 1: fill that hole. And our big advantage is we've got

1320
01:00:22,400 --> 01:00:25,120
Speaker 1: a platform that's used by thousands of teams, and we've

1321
01:00:25,160 --> 01:00:28,080
Speaker 1: got people all over the world that are engaged with

1322
01:00:28,160 --> 01:00:29,160
Speaker 1: those teams.

1323
01:00:28,840 --> 01:00:31,400
Speaker 2: People using Catapult every day, individuals.

1324
01:00:31,520 --> 01:00:33,520
Speaker 1: I couldn't say, but there's four thousand teams, so there

1325
01:00:33,520 --> 01:00:38,160
Speaker 1: would be hundreds of thousands, probably one or two hundred thousand,

1326
01:00:38,160 --> 01:00:40,160
Speaker 1: we might guess. And so we have the advantage of

1327
01:00:40,200 --> 01:00:43,200
Speaker 1: saying to a company, your tech is amazing. It's very

1328
01:00:43,240 --> 01:00:46,120
Speaker 1: hard to sell into sports tech because your clients are

1329
01:00:46,160 --> 01:00:49,040
Speaker 1: all over the world, so hard distribution, so hard to

1330
01:00:49,080 --> 01:00:52,520
Speaker 1: get to them. Let us help solve that problem for you.

1331
01:00:52,520 --> 01:00:56,400
Speaker 2: Coke little software coming exactly and sends about through its distribution.

1332
01:00:56,480 --> 01:00:58,120
Speaker 1: And we looked at this and we were like, I never.

1333
01:00:58,040 --> 01:00:59,800
Speaker 2: Thought of you guys as a platform in that sense.

1334
01:01:00,360 --> 01:01:03,120
Speaker 1: I think, you know, I'm going to be say something

1335
01:01:03,160 --> 01:01:05,280
Speaker 1: which I cringe a bit when I say it, but

1336
01:01:05,280 --> 01:01:07,080
Speaker 1: I believe it from the bottom of my heart. I

1337
01:01:07,160 --> 01:01:10,760
Speaker 1: think we're kind of turning into the Salesforce for elite

1338
01:01:10,840 --> 01:01:14,720
Speaker 1: sports in terms of being this singular platform that everything

1339
01:01:14,760 --> 01:01:17,280
Speaker 1: plugs into. And you know, the advantage that we have

1340
01:01:17,400 --> 01:01:20,640
Speaker 1: is that the data that we collect is almost the

1341
01:01:20,640 --> 01:01:22,800
Speaker 1: only proprietary data that exists in.

1342
01:01:22,840 --> 01:01:26,240
Speaker 2: Sports, much much more a tech enable business than Salesforce,

1343
01:01:26,280 --> 01:01:27,840
Speaker 2: which is some of the worst teching.

1344
01:01:27,600 --> 01:01:29,640
Speaker 1: In fint I'd happily what places with them at this

1345
01:01:29,720 --> 01:01:33,600
Speaker 1: moment in time, but yes, very disruptive. It is very

1346
01:01:33,640 --> 01:01:37,400
Speaker 1: hard to maintain an innovation edge when you're at that size, right,

1347
01:01:37,400 --> 01:01:40,880
Speaker 1: It's difficult. But for us, yeah, we have a platform

1348
01:01:40,960 --> 01:01:44,360
Speaker 1: and distribution. That's a huge advantage. And so we thought

1349
01:01:44,480 --> 01:01:46,560
Speaker 1: this tech is amazing and like we got into the

1350
01:01:46,600 --> 01:01:48,760
Speaker 1: detail of the tech. This is mostly Will the CEO

1351
01:01:48,960 --> 01:01:51,640
Speaker 1: and his team, and like, for example, a lot of

1352
01:01:51,680 --> 01:01:55,000
Speaker 1: the tech in a gym that measures is either cumbersome

1353
01:01:55,160 --> 01:01:57,440
Speaker 1: or you can't do things like you can't measure kettle

1354
01:01:57,520 --> 01:01:59,880
Speaker 1: bell lifts and so this when you can measure also

1355
01:02:00,120 --> 01:02:00,919
Speaker 1: your kettlebell lifts.

1356
01:02:00,920 --> 01:02:02,560
Speaker 2: So you'll go to all your four thousand teens and

1357
01:02:02,560 --> 01:02:04,880
Speaker 2: say I've got this new thing. We'll charge then extra

1358
01:02:05,000 --> 01:02:07,280
Speaker 2: Amazon prim Video Style for all is an extra month.

1359
01:02:07,320 --> 01:02:09,280
Speaker 2: If that's sort of what you're doing. Yeah, it's upselling

1360
01:02:09,400 --> 01:02:10,040
Speaker 2: extra products.

1361
01:02:10,080 --> 01:02:10,520
Speaker 1: I think.

1362
01:02:10,640 --> 01:02:13,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, we would find ways of without giving too much away.

1363
01:02:13,840 --> 01:02:16,800
Speaker 2: It's pretty obvious that the more stuff that a team

1364
01:02:16,840 --> 01:02:19,480
Speaker 2: has with us. Number one, it's easy to have it

1365
01:02:19,520 --> 01:02:22,560
Speaker 2: with one provider, but number two, the sum of having

1366
01:02:22,840 --> 01:02:26,040
Speaker 2: different pieces with us produces an overall total that would

1367
01:02:26,080 --> 01:02:28,760
Speaker 2: be greater than just getting the pieces from individual providers.

1368
01:02:28,760 --> 01:02:30,920
Speaker 2: I'm just gonna get word, you're gonna get word Excel, PowerPoint,

1369
01:02:31,120 --> 01:02:33,840
Speaker 2: and all the data enables us to show you things

1370
01:02:34,040 --> 01:02:36,960
Speaker 2: that you wouldn't otherwise be able to see, and you

1371
01:02:37,000 --> 01:02:38,680
Speaker 2: could tell you building switching costs.

1372
01:02:38,680 --> 01:02:41,960
Speaker 1: Yes, definitely, the switching costs grow and grow. And also

1373
01:02:42,400 --> 01:02:45,080
Speaker 1: there are some network effects that have crept into this

1374
01:02:45,160 --> 01:02:47,760
Speaker 1: business as well. Right, because all of these different teams

1375
01:02:47,760 --> 01:02:49,440
Speaker 1: are using this platform.

1376
01:02:48,960 --> 01:02:50,840
Speaker 2: Would you share data the team share data?

1377
01:02:51,720 --> 01:02:56,480
Speaker 1: There are ways that teams can understand things that they

1378
01:02:56,520 --> 01:02:59,520
Speaker 1: couldn't if they were using some smaller provider, and that's

1379
01:02:59,520 --> 01:03:01,560
Speaker 1: been a wrapper growing area for us.

1380
01:03:01,600 --> 01:03:04,400
Speaker 2: Like the network effects feel weaker, there's some scale benefits

1381
01:03:04,400 --> 01:03:05,000
Speaker 2: for sure.

1382
01:03:06,160 --> 01:03:08,000
Speaker 1: And switching costs and switching.

1383
01:03:07,680 --> 01:03:11,160
Speaker 2: Costs unquestionably, the network's obviously hard. It's very few busy

1384
01:03:11,200 --> 01:03:13,720
Speaker 2: the network effects. But I guess you could argue to

1385
01:03:13,800 --> 01:03:16,320
Speaker 2: the Boston player, to the Celtics players get a benefit

1386
01:03:16,360 --> 01:03:19,280
Speaker 2: when the New York Yankees use Catapult if you can

1387
01:03:19,720 --> 01:03:23,400
Speaker 2: somehow get the data across that help helps you interpret

1388
01:03:23,480 --> 01:03:25,000
Speaker 2: data batter that potentially it potentially is.

1389
01:03:25,040 --> 01:03:26,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think, And I think like one of the

1390
01:03:26,560 --> 01:03:30,440
Speaker 1: network effects, for example, is the video in college football

1391
01:03:31,120 --> 01:03:34,120
Speaker 1: is managed through our platform, all of that video, and

1392
01:03:34,160 --> 01:03:36,760
Speaker 1: so if you're a client, it's just much easier to

1393
01:03:36,840 --> 01:03:38,720
Speaker 1: engage with that video. And if we didn't have all

1394
01:03:38,800 --> 01:03:41,440
Speaker 1: these teams, we probably couldn't have gotten that contract. But

1395
01:03:41,480 --> 01:03:44,640
Speaker 1: you probably call it scale, right, Yeah, And so.

1396
01:03:44,640 --> 01:03:47,000
Speaker 2: Okay, there will be a network though if like one

1397
01:03:47,040 --> 01:03:49,120
Speaker 2: team records the videos and then the other team and

1398
01:03:49,120 --> 01:03:51,160
Speaker 2: everybody just records their home games. For example, so you

1399
01:03:51,160 --> 01:03:53,080
Speaker 2: don't have to send two people recording the same thing

1400
01:03:53,320 --> 01:03:55,080
Speaker 2: and oh, I'll record your home game if you record

1401
01:03:55,160 --> 01:03:56,520
Speaker 2: my home game, and then all shit. That would be

1402
01:03:56,560 --> 01:03:57,480
Speaker 2: network effects for sure.

1403
01:03:57,600 --> 01:04:01,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, but it's not like it's not fa machine network

1404
01:04:01,080 --> 01:04:04,960
Speaker 1: effects where because the problem is this these like uber

1405
01:04:05,120 --> 01:04:08,439
Speaker 1: like most businesses that even get network effects, they cap

1406
01:04:08,480 --> 01:04:11,640
Speaker 1: out it a certain size, and so the one extra

1407
01:04:11,800 --> 01:04:14,920
Speaker 1: team that makes takes us to five thousand or something

1408
01:04:15,400 --> 01:04:18,840
Speaker 1: that doesn't really provide this next step up in benefittwork

1409
01:04:19,160 --> 01:04:21,640
Speaker 1: mobile phone or Yeah. That's why I said fax machines

1410
01:04:21,640 --> 01:04:24,920
Speaker 1: because like until the day, even if a million people

1411
01:04:24,920 --> 01:04:27,400
Speaker 1: had a fax machine the day you got it, that

1412
01:04:27,440 --> 01:04:29,560
Speaker 1: would be great for me, Like it would actually provide

1413
01:04:29,720 --> 01:04:32,680
Speaker 1: a benefit to me. There's a valuable extra node, and

1414
01:04:32,760 --> 01:04:34,840
Speaker 1: so the advantage capiple also has. I think this is

1415
01:04:35,000 --> 01:04:37,760
Speaker 1: kind of interesting as a point as well, is you know,

1416
01:04:37,840 --> 01:04:41,960
Speaker 1: we buy businesses from founders, and founders are very worried

1417
01:04:41,960 --> 01:04:44,480
Speaker 1: about what happens to them after you buy their business

1418
01:04:44,960 --> 01:04:47,680
Speaker 1: because they're the king, well, they're the monarch. I was

1419
01:04:47,680 --> 01:04:49,280
Speaker 1: going to say king or queen, but they're the monarch

1420
01:04:49,320 --> 01:04:52,959
Speaker 1: of their world, and then they get subsumed into something

1421
01:04:53,040 --> 01:04:55,240
Speaker 1: much bigger. And one of the advantages we have is

1422
01:04:55,520 --> 01:04:58,360
Speaker 1: a business that we bought previously by a guy who

1423
01:04:58,400 --> 01:05:01,000
Speaker 1: had already sold a couple of businesses, made plenty of money.

1424
01:05:01,360 --> 01:05:04,320
Speaker 1: He's now the CEO of Catapult and sticking around and building,

1425
01:05:04,320 --> 01:05:08,480
Speaker 1: And so we can point to this long history of

1426
01:05:08,560 --> 01:05:12,840
Speaker 1: integrating founders into the business in important and meaningful positions.

1427
01:05:13,320 --> 01:05:13,920
Speaker 2: In any ways.

1428
01:05:14,000 --> 01:05:15,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, except we're not acquiring because we want the tech

1429
01:05:15,920 --> 01:05:18,080
Speaker 1: and we want the platform or whatever. But I think

1430
01:05:18,320 --> 01:05:21,240
Speaker 1: in acquisitions people don't think about that enough, like the

1431
01:05:21,360 --> 01:05:25,400
Speaker 1: human factor of someone might have had twenty or thirty

1432
01:05:25,440 --> 01:05:28,320
Speaker 1: staff and that was their domain and it was a

1433
01:05:28,320 --> 01:05:31,200
Speaker 1: particular vibe and a particular feeling, and now you're in

1434
01:05:31,240 --> 01:05:33,840
Speaker 1: a business with five or six hundred people. I think

1435
01:05:33,960 --> 01:05:36,120
Speaker 1: a business I mean, I know you agree with this.

1436
01:05:36,240 --> 01:05:38,160
Speaker 1: A business that you buy gets much worse if the

1437
01:05:38,200 --> 01:05:41,280
Speaker 1: founders leave, unless there's a founder problem. And so that's

1438
01:05:41,320 --> 01:05:44,160
Speaker 1: a big factor for us making coitions.

1439
01:05:43,880 --> 01:05:47,440
Speaker 2: And exhibitions failures. The people factor, like the eyep just

1440
01:05:47,480 --> 01:05:50,160
Speaker 2: walks out the door, and you've wasted time thinking. All

1441
01:05:50,240 --> 01:05:51,960
Speaker 2: the great filed acquisitions that mean a lot of them

1442
01:05:52,080 --> 01:05:54,440
Speaker 2: almost always stems down to that or just overpaying but

1443
01:05:54,560 --> 01:05:55,960
Speaker 2: usually it's the people factor.

1444
01:05:56,080 --> 01:05:58,040
Speaker 1: And so people often say to me, what are you

1445
01:05:58,080 --> 01:06:00,160
Speaker 1: doing when you travel around the world, and what a

1446
01:06:00,160 --> 01:06:02,000
Speaker 1: lot of what I'm doing is because you said, how

1447
01:06:02,000 --> 01:06:04,000
Speaker 1: do we source these acquisitions? A lot of what I'm

1448
01:06:04,000 --> 01:06:06,920
Speaker 1: doing is just meeting people and some I know already

1449
01:06:06,960 --> 01:06:09,200
Speaker 1: and I'm staying in touch. And like you know, every

1450
01:06:09,240 --> 01:06:12,280
Speaker 1: industry is a small industry. That's the truth, right, Like

1451
01:06:12,320 --> 01:06:15,040
Speaker 1: you're in the travel industry, there's only X number of

1452
01:06:15,080 --> 01:06:18,440
Speaker 1: people involved in it. And I think like staying across

1453
01:06:18,520 --> 01:06:23,000
Speaker 1: the gossip who's doing what, it's amazing how what a

1454
01:06:23,280 --> 01:06:26,880
Speaker 1: precious resource information is and the way it's got value

1455
01:06:26,920 --> 01:06:29,960
Speaker 1: and it's shared. And a lot of people, I would say,

1456
01:06:29,960 --> 01:06:33,280
Speaker 1: are trying to ingratiate themselves to catapults, and so they're

1457
01:06:33,440 --> 01:06:37,760
Speaker 1: very forthcoming with information about other companies. And so it's

1458
01:06:37,920 --> 01:06:41,880
Speaker 1: quite advantageous in staying across everything that's going on, who's

1459
01:06:41,880 --> 01:06:45,080
Speaker 1: doing what, which companies are emerging, who's struggling, who's interested

1460
01:06:45,120 --> 01:06:48,440
Speaker 1: in selling? And so I think we're very across the

1461
01:06:48,480 --> 01:06:50,600
Speaker 1: goings on in the broader space.

1462
01:06:51,120 --> 01:06:54,000
Speaker 2: Banks to help you the transitions, so.

1463
01:06:54,080 --> 01:06:57,080
Speaker 1: On these we didn't we use work and use Goldman Sachs,

1464
01:06:57,160 --> 01:07:00,840
Speaker 1: like Mick Sims and yeah, there you go, like, and

1465
01:07:00,880 --> 01:07:03,360
Speaker 1: he's a great guy, and so him and Adrian are

1466
01:07:03,400 --> 01:07:07,440
Speaker 1: like really strong and so often we'll use banks this

1467
01:07:08,080 --> 01:07:10,640
Speaker 1: sometimes the other party will use a bank, especially if

1468
01:07:10,640 --> 01:07:14,800
Speaker 1: there's some VC involved. This was a relatively small transaction

1469
01:07:15,840 --> 01:07:18,160
Speaker 1: bank No, it was funded. It was funded, but the

1470
01:07:18,160 --> 01:07:20,000
Speaker 1: price of it was a few tens of millions of

1471
01:07:20,040 --> 01:07:22,360
Speaker 1: dollars and like it was stock and a bit of cash, right,

1472
01:07:22,400 --> 01:07:24,000
Speaker 1: we didn't even raise money for it. So it was

1473
01:07:24,040 --> 01:07:27,080
Speaker 1: a relatively straightforward transaction. But I was in Boston last week.

1474
01:07:27,120 --> 01:07:27,920
Speaker 1: I met the founders.

1475
01:07:27,960 --> 01:07:30,720
Speaker 2: They're like, I mean, they're ultra happy, like they're already

1476
01:07:30,720 --> 01:07:31,960
Speaker 2: integrated into the business.

1477
01:07:32,360 --> 01:07:33,040
Speaker 1: It's really good.

1478
01:07:33,080 --> 01:07:33,439
Speaker 3: I think.

1479
01:07:33,640 --> 01:07:36,560
Speaker 1: One other interesting thing about it is the question that

1480
01:07:36,600 --> 01:07:38,560
Speaker 1: we usually talk about, which is how do you know

1481
01:07:38,600 --> 01:07:41,680
Speaker 1: what to pay for its acquisition? Right? And so for us,

1482
01:07:42,000 --> 01:07:44,760
Speaker 1: we've said to the market very clearly, we are very

1483
01:07:44,760 --> 01:07:47,880
Speaker 1: focused on rule of forty and that means the acquisitions

1484
01:07:47,880 --> 01:07:50,480
Speaker 1: that we make have to be a creative to rule

1485
01:07:50,480 --> 01:07:54,640
Speaker 1: of forty. And this business is like it's a business

1486
01:07:54,640 --> 01:07:57,160
Speaker 1: that's growing very quickly. And like I'm not sure if

1487
01:07:57,160 --> 01:07:59,920
Speaker 1: we've released what the what the profit and lost line.

1488
01:08:00,120 --> 01:08:02,200
Speaker 1: But we're not interested in burning cash, so you can

1489
01:08:02,240 --> 01:08:05,480
Speaker 1: kind of work it out, yea. And what's interesting though

1490
01:08:05,480 --> 01:08:07,480
Speaker 1: that I've discovered with rule of forty is you can't

1491
01:08:07,560 --> 01:08:10,840
Speaker 1: just base it on rule of forty because rule of

1492
01:08:10,920 --> 01:08:14,040
Speaker 1: forty is not susceptible to the price that you pay,

1493
01:08:15,200 --> 01:08:19,400
Speaker 1: because the growth rate of revenue and the cash generated

1494
01:08:19,439 --> 01:08:22,519
Speaker 1: by the business is independent of what you pay for

1495
01:08:22,560 --> 01:08:25,320
Speaker 1: that business. And so if I paid a trillion dollars

1496
01:08:25,360 --> 01:08:27,840
Speaker 1: for this business, the rule of forty wouldn't change. So

1497
01:08:27,880 --> 01:08:30,280
Speaker 1: you can't only use rule of forty. And so that

1498
01:08:30,320 --> 01:08:32,559
Speaker 1: you need to use another metric, which might be we

1499
01:08:32,600 --> 01:08:34,840
Speaker 1: want it to be have a lower we want to

1500
01:08:34,840 --> 01:08:37,880
Speaker 1: pay a lower ebit d creation essentially yeah, lower ebit

1501
01:08:37,920 --> 01:08:40,559
Speaker 1: don multiple. Then we're training on or revenue multiple. We

1502
01:08:40,600 --> 01:08:42,639
Speaker 1: want it to be a creedy I to something right.

1503
01:08:42,800 --> 01:08:46,240
Speaker 1: And so that's how we think about these acquisitions. But

1504
01:08:46,840 --> 01:08:49,080
Speaker 1: I think we spent a lot of time and again

1505
01:08:49,360 --> 01:08:51,000
Speaker 1: like I'm saying we but like I talk a bit,

1506
01:08:51,040 --> 01:08:54,200
Speaker 1: but it's mostly Will and Bob the CFO, talking to

1507
01:08:54,240 --> 01:08:56,439
Speaker 1: the market and saying this is how we're thinking about things,

1508
01:08:56,479 --> 01:08:58,000
Speaker 1: this is what we're doing. And I think like the

1509
01:08:58,080 --> 01:09:01,120
Speaker 1: market really understood it. But it's taken me a decade

1510
01:09:01,160 --> 01:09:06,559
Speaker 1: to understand how to get markets to be ready for

1511
01:09:06,640 --> 01:09:09,960
Speaker 1: an acquisition without telling them about an acquisition, and to

1512
01:09:10,080 --> 01:09:12,400
Speaker 1: understand why you bought something and where it fits in.

1513
01:09:12,479 --> 01:09:14,000
Speaker 1: I think, you know, we didn't get it right for

1514
01:09:14,040 --> 01:09:15,000
Speaker 1: the first few years.

1515
01:09:15,080 --> 01:09:16,840
Speaker 2: And now obviously a lot of credibility as well. So

1516
01:09:17,280 --> 01:09:19,639
Speaker 2: Mark or presumably trust you when you do something because

1517
01:09:19,760 --> 01:09:22,080
Speaker 2: you've got a great multiple and it's almost always going

1518
01:09:22,120 --> 01:09:24,160
Speaker 2: to be a creative and they trust you to get it.

1519
01:09:24,160 --> 01:09:25,040
Speaker 1: Right, definitely.

1520
01:09:25,120 --> 01:09:27,840
Speaker 2: But I do think, like you know, you said, you've

1521
01:09:27,880 --> 01:09:30,759
Speaker 2: made acquisitions and like the crappy things that you bought

1522
01:09:31,080 --> 01:09:34,120
Speaker 2: tend not to work out no matter how buff has

1523
01:09:34,120 --> 01:09:36,400
Speaker 2: got a couple of good quotes, and one good quote

1524
01:09:36,400 --> 01:09:40,000
Speaker 2: it's always you're better off paying a fair price for

1525
01:09:40,040 --> 01:09:42,080
Speaker 2: a good business and the cheap price for a bad business.

1526
01:09:42,439 --> 01:09:45,840
Speaker 2: Another great quote is, whenever you've got a manager with

1527
01:09:45,880 --> 01:09:48,360
Speaker 2: a great reputation and a business with the bad reputation,

1528
01:09:48,400 --> 01:09:50,719
Speaker 2: the reputation of the business was the one that will survive. Yeah.

1529
01:09:50,760 --> 01:09:53,519
Speaker 2: So they're two great Buffet quotes and they almost always right. Yeah,

1530
01:09:53,640 --> 01:09:54,639
Speaker 2: they are always right.

1531
01:09:54,880 --> 01:09:58,080
Speaker 1: And so what I think about these kind of ecquisitions

1532
01:09:58,160 --> 01:10:03,680
Speaker 1: is especially with fountal businesses, like I'm not really a

1533
01:10:03,720 --> 01:10:06,720
Speaker 1: fan of buying these businesses. Firstly, I do not want

1534
01:10:06,760 --> 01:10:09,880
Speaker 1: to buy opportunistic businesses, like if you want to do

1535
01:10:09,920 --> 01:10:12,840
Speaker 1: a turnaround and you're a turn around specialist, like knock

1536
01:10:12,880 --> 01:10:15,000
Speaker 1: yourself out. But what you hear from people that have

1537
01:10:15,040 --> 01:10:17,360
Speaker 1: done one turnaround generally is I'll never do that again.

1538
01:10:17,760 --> 01:10:20,400
Speaker 1: And it's hell right, It's the hardest way to make money.

1539
01:10:20,760 --> 01:10:23,240
Speaker 1: And so you know, we want to buy really high

1540
01:10:23,320 --> 01:10:26,680
Speaker 1: quality businesses where we think there's some advantage in that

1541
01:10:26,720 --> 01:10:29,280
Speaker 1: business rolling into us, which is not cost cutting, like

1542
01:10:29,880 --> 01:10:31,760
Speaker 1: that's usually not going to be the advantage for us.

1543
01:10:32,240 --> 01:10:35,639
Speaker 1: But also, I do not want to pay founders much

1544
01:10:35,680 --> 01:10:37,200
Speaker 1: of the upside.

1545
01:10:36,720 --> 01:10:38,440
Speaker 2: In cash in the synergies.

1546
01:10:38,800 --> 01:10:40,840
Speaker 1: No I no, as in yes, I don't want to

1547
01:10:40,840 --> 01:10:43,559
Speaker 1: pay them for my synergies. But here I was it

1548
01:10:43,600 --> 01:10:45,599
Speaker 1: was more like the growth of the business as opposed

1549
01:10:45,600 --> 01:10:47,000
Speaker 1: to but I don't want to pay much of it

1550
01:10:47,080 --> 01:10:49,280
Speaker 1: in cash. So I want to pay them enough cash

1551
01:10:49,520 --> 01:10:51,960
Speaker 1: so maybe they can pay off their mortgage. But if

1552
01:10:51,960 --> 01:10:54,000
Speaker 1: you're going to give a founder cash to the point

1553
01:10:54,040 --> 01:10:58,080
Speaker 1: where they where this enters their mind, even if the

1554
01:10:58,080 --> 01:10:59,840
Speaker 1: rest of my equity turned out to be worth it

1555
01:11:00,040 --> 01:11:02,800
Speaker 1: year old, I still would have done Okay, that's not

1556
01:11:02,880 --> 01:11:06,080
Speaker 1: a good outcome. And so we very much have a

1557
01:11:06,120 --> 01:11:09,599
Speaker 1: preference for paying in stock, and we're happy to pay

1558
01:11:09,680 --> 01:11:11,840
Speaker 1: like the expensive. Your stock's done pretty well, I know,

1559
01:11:12,000 --> 01:11:15,160
Speaker 1: and we can pay super upside on stocklock. I don't

1560
01:11:15,160 --> 01:11:18,040
Speaker 1: mind saying there's earnouts and we'll pay you super upside

1561
01:11:18,080 --> 01:11:20,439
Speaker 1: if we really nail the earnouts. But I just want

1562
01:11:20,479 --> 01:11:25,280
Speaker 1: them to feel like they won't really have succeeded in

1563
01:11:25,360 --> 01:11:28,240
Speaker 1: selling this business unless they get the value of the

1564
01:11:28,400 --> 01:11:29,799
Speaker 1: stockshire we've paid them.

1565
01:11:30,040 --> 01:11:33,760
Speaker 2: Or inn out or whatever exactly. Totally that makes otherwise

1566
01:11:34,120 --> 01:11:35,240
Speaker 2: last thing you want to do is buy a found

1567
01:11:35,240 --> 01:11:36,400
Speaker 2: of that business have the founder's leave.

1568
01:11:36,439 --> 01:11:40,879
Speaker 1: That's just total disaster. And back in twenty seventeen, maybe

1569
01:11:41,240 --> 01:11:44,120
Speaker 1: we bought this business called Exos. It was oh mean god,

1570
01:11:44,160 --> 01:11:47,400
Speaker 1: that was the messiest cap table ever. I mean, actually,

1571
01:11:47,680 --> 01:11:52,040
Speaker 1: my recollection is we had to facilitate a vote where

1572
01:11:52,840 --> 01:11:56,400
Speaker 1: the seed and Series A investors voted in favor of

1573
01:11:56,439 --> 01:11:59,640
Speaker 1: a transaction that would give them no sense in the

1574
01:11:59,720 --> 01:12:03,360
Speaker 1: dollar and just enable a tax right of And so

1575
01:12:03,520 --> 01:12:05,040
Speaker 1: we did that, and there was a guy who was

1576
01:12:05,080 --> 01:12:07,839
Speaker 1: not the founder running it. His name's Matt bay Ross.

1577
01:12:08,080 --> 01:12:10,000
Speaker 1: Actually he'd been a high school teacher and started in

1578
01:12:10,000 --> 01:12:12,280
Speaker 1: the call center and over fifteen years had worked his

1579
01:12:12,320 --> 01:12:15,360
Speaker 1: way up to CEO. The last man stands.

1580
01:12:15,040 --> 01:12:17,440
Speaker 2: Effectively, it's effectively a founded.

1581
01:12:17,240 --> 01:12:20,759
Speaker 1: And so eight years later he's still a direct report

1582
01:12:20,840 --> 01:12:23,840
Speaker 1: to Will, in charge of product, and very important in

1583
01:12:23,880 --> 01:12:27,479
Speaker 1: the Catapult business. And I think when founders like have

1584
01:12:27,479 --> 01:12:30,519
Speaker 1: our potential acquisitions, look at that and they see these people, Yeah,

1585
01:12:30,560 --> 01:12:33,439
Speaker 1: for sure, they say, like, these guys actually walk the talk.

1586
01:12:33,479 --> 01:12:35,719
Speaker 1: And I have to say, I do think that provides

1587
01:12:35,800 --> 01:12:40,480
Speaker 1: us with a competitive advantage in making these acquisitions.

1588
01:12:40,560 --> 01:12:43,040
Speaker 2: Yeah. I look through our staff and we bought a

1589
01:12:43,040 --> 01:12:45,880
Speaker 2: bunch of businesses of between two thousand and eleven and

1590
01:12:45,920 --> 01:12:50,200
Speaker 2: two thousand seventeen, and a lot of the most accuses

1591
01:12:50,200 --> 01:12:51,920
Speaker 2: didn't work, but we did get a bunch of great

1592
01:12:51,960 --> 01:12:54,160
Speaker 2: people as a legacy of these and they're still around.

1593
01:12:54,439 --> 01:12:57,000
Speaker 2: So even when the occasion doesn't work, you actually still

1594
01:12:57,000 --> 01:12:57,759
Speaker 2: get some great people.

1595
01:12:57,920 --> 01:13:01,120
Speaker 1: Do you feel like in of the acquisitions that you

1596
01:13:01,280 --> 01:13:07,599
Speaker 1: made were either transformative or fundamental to being the business

1597
01:13:07,600 --> 01:13:08,400
Speaker 1: that you are today.

1598
01:13:08,560 --> 01:13:11,600
Speaker 2: I wouldn't say that extent. We bought Kudo it was

1599
01:13:11,640 --> 01:13:14,200
Speaker 2: a great deal that Glenn helped us out with one

1600
01:13:14,200 --> 01:13:16,719
Speaker 2: of our shareholders, and that ended up being a super

1601
01:13:16,760 --> 01:13:18,720
Speaker 2: chief acquisition because they did a few things wrong and

1602
01:13:18,760 --> 01:13:22,080
Speaker 2: we adjusted the prime purchase price subsequently down and paid

1603
01:13:22,080 --> 01:13:24,120
Speaker 2: almost nothing for it. And that was the lead into

1604
01:13:24,160 --> 01:13:25,920
Speaker 2: Luxury Escape. So we had a deals dot Com that

1605
01:13:25,960 --> 01:13:28,080
Speaker 2: are You business and then we were building luxury escapes.

1606
01:13:28,120 --> 01:13:30,000
Speaker 2: We could roll in with what was called getaway Land,

1607
01:13:30,040 --> 01:13:32,720
Speaker 2: which is nine of us N's showing property like, well,

1608
01:13:32,840 --> 01:13:35,000
Speaker 2: it wasn't a great property, it was something to sort

1609
01:13:35,000 --> 01:13:37,479
Speaker 2: of kickstarted. So that was the only one I deemed

1610
01:13:37,520 --> 01:13:38,760
Speaker 2: to be somewhat transplant was.

1611
01:13:39,040 --> 01:13:42,599
Speaker 1: So what did that? Did that start your travel business?

1612
01:13:42,680 --> 01:13:44,160
Speaker 2: So we had a travel We had a pretty decent

1613
01:13:44,160 --> 01:13:47,000
Speaker 2: travel business, but it was inside of deals dot com

1614
01:13:47,000 --> 01:13:48,840
Speaker 2: that are You and not the business called uth This

1615
01:13:49,000 --> 01:13:51,400
Speaker 2: allowed us to split it out into Luxury Escapes, which

1616
01:13:51,400 --> 01:13:52,559
Speaker 2: is a few years after we started.

1617
01:13:52,760 --> 01:13:55,680
Speaker 1: So is it cuto? Is Luxury Escapes the continuation of

1618
01:13:55,760 --> 01:13:58,280
Speaker 1: Cuto as an entity? Not really, because we're based. So

1619
01:13:58,320 --> 01:13:59,640
Speaker 1: we had we had a business called deals dot Com

1620
01:13:59,640 --> 01:14:02,439
Speaker 1: that are You? Had out sixty stuff and then we

1621
01:14:02,479 --> 01:14:06,640
Speaker 1: bought Kudo, which also owned Getaway Lounge, which is a

1622
01:14:06,640 --> 01:14:09,320
Speaker 1: travel business that both those business Max and these of

1623
01:14:09,320 --> 01:14:11,559
Speaker 1: course was running. Kudo was struggling and said they weren't

1624
01:14:11,560 --> 01:14:13,200
Speaker 1: making any money. Had they had revenue, but weren't making

1625
01:14:13,200 --> 01:14:16,040
Speaker 1: any money. Had a decent team in there, because this

1626
01:14:16,120 --> 01:14:18,519
Speaker 1: was Getaway Lunch was a nine property. This was all

1627
01:14:18,520 --> 01:14:20,040
Speaker 1: inside nine mbercent, yes exactly.

1628
01:14:20,040 --> 01:14:22,920
Speaker 2: It was halfway by nine, halfway by Microsoft, and Mark

1629
01:14:22,960 --> 01:14:24,840
Speaker 2: Britt was running down numbers and then who then went

1630
01:14:24,840 --> 01:14:26,960
Speaker 2: to work with Patrick Grove at Ifflex and he's not

1631
01:14:27,000 --> 01:14:29,599
Speaker 2: a new thing I just saw recently. So we bought

1632
01:14:29,600 --> 01:14:31,960
Speaker 2: that business fro nine number cen We're ready were working

1633
01:14:32,000 --> 01:14:33,720
Speaker 2: on luxury escapes and it just gave us a bit

1634
01:14:33,720 --> 01:14:35,960
Speaker 2: more of a running start. So they had two hundred

1635
01:14:36,000 --> 01:14:38,960
Speaker 2: thousand subscribers. We then poured of those subscribers in I

1636
01:14:39,000 --> 01:14:40,960
Speaker 2: see out as many subscribers still around from that year.

1637
01:14:41,160 --> 01:14:43,840
Speaker 2: So we built it mostly organically, but it was it's

1638
01:14:43,840 --> 01:14:45,719
Speaker 2: not as we bought luxury scates because we had it anyway,

1639
01:14:45,720 --> 01:14:48,439
Speaker 2: but it gave it a bit of a start, and

1640
01:14:48,520 --> 01:14:50,040
Speaker 2: we had we inherited a couple of people in that

1641
01:14:50,080 --> 01:14:52,840
Speaker 2: side of the business, but most mostly of the sort

1642
01:14:52,840 --> 01:14:55,640
Speaker 2: of fifteen acquistions we did that was the best the

1643
01:14:55,720 --> 01:14:57,840
Speaker 2: least bad. But of the other ones we bought the

1644
01:14:57,880 --> 01:14:59,679
Speaker 2: were bad, we still managed to get some great people

1645
01:14:59,680 --> 01:14:59,960
Speaker 2: from them.

1646
01:15:00,240 --> 01:15:04,040
Speaker 1: So I'll tell you three acquisitions we did that were

1647
01:15:04,920 --> 01:15:07,840
Speaker 1: very material to the business. The first acquisition we did

1648
01:15:07,960 --> 01:15:12,360
Speaker 1: was pretty soon after I joined Catapults. Yes, we bought

1649
01:15:12,520 --> 01:15:15,000
Speaker 1: a competitor, and we did it in such a way

1650
01:15:15,760 --> 01:15:18,800
Speaker 1: that a little bit before, a couple of years before

1651
01:15:18,800 --> 01:15:19,120
Speaker 1: the float.

1652
01:15:19,240 --> 01:15:20,720
Speaker 2: Did you buy one just for the float as well?

1653
01:15:21,160 --> 01:15:24,120
Speaker 1: We didn't, but we bought one maybe a year before

1654
01:15:24,160 --> 01:15:26,680
Speaker 1: maybe thinking about this. So this was a business that

1655
01:15:26,800 --> 01:15:28,639
Speaker 1: was in a lawsuit with Catapult when I got there.

1656
01:15:28,640 --> 01:15:32,120
Speaker 1: It was a very messy ip lawsuit, and we kind

1657
01:15:32,160 --> 01:15:35,320
Speaker 1: of ran a very long process and we made them

1658
01:15:35,439 --> 01:15:37,479
Speaker 1: show us their numbers as we were running the process.

1659
01:15:37,520 --> 01:15:39,479
Speaker 1: And what we were able to see is I think

1660
01:15:39,560 --> 01:15:42,320
Speaker 1: the wave is coming for this industry now, and we

1661
01:15:42,320 --> 01:15:45,599
Speaker 1: were able to acquire them. We bought them at a

1662
01:15:45,600 --> 01:15:50,280
Speaker 1: certain multiple, but we raised money to buy them based

1663
01:15:50,280 --> 01:15:53,519
Speaker 1: on the combined businesses getting rid of a competitor at

1664
01:15:53,520 --> 01:15:56,080
Speaker 1: a much higher multiple. So we got this great multiple.

1665
01:15:56,520 --> 01:15:58,880
Speaker 1: And so I would say that was transformative because it

1666
01:15:58,920 --> 01:16:02,000
Speaker 1: took out the largest competitor we're talking about when the

1667
01:16:02,040 --> 01:16:04,160
Speaker 1: business was doing two or three million dollars of revenue.

1668
01:16:04,240 --> 01:16:07,640
Speaker 1: Was tiny, right, but we did not want to have

1669
01:16:07,720 --> 01:16:09,040
Speaker 1: a big competitor.

1670
01:16:10,240 --> 01:16:12,280
Speaker 2: New one hundred and fifty million revenue now two hundred

1671
01:16:12,280 --> 01:16:13,160
Speaker 2: million revenue.

1672
01:16:12,920 --> 01:16:18,320
Speaker 1: In aud we would be pushing towards two hundred yep yep.

1673
01:16:18,840 --> 01:16:20,920
Speaker 1: And so yeah, it's funny to think about it. It's

1674
01:16:20,920 --> 01:16:23,840
Speaker 1: like one hundred close to one hundred xcess story wow.

1675
01:16:24,840 --> 01:16:27,080
Speaker 1: And so that was one that was transformative. The other

1676
01:16:27,120 --> 01:16:29,479
Speaker 1: one is that when I just spoke about exos and

1677
01:16:29,520 --> 01:16:32,479
Speaker 1: so that got us. We knew that we I mean,

1678
01:16:32,520 --> 01:16:34,400
Speaker 1: the Fanners are very smart of this business, shawn An

1679
01:16:34,400 --> 01:16:38,320
Speaker 1: Eagle and so Sean, we have found a catabule. Yeah,

1680
01:16:38,360 --> 01:16:41,800
Speaker 1: like they're very smart guys. And like Sewan was clear

1681
01:16:41,840 --> 01:16:43,840
Speaker 1: with me pretty much at the outset, which is we

1682
01:16:43,880 --> 01:16:46,120
Speaker 1: need to be a platform and be well rounded. And

1683
01:16:46,120 --> 01:16:47,639
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, that's exactly what I think as well,

1684
01:16:47,680 --> 01:16:50,160
Speaker 1: you know, And all three of us won the same page.

1685
01:16:50,280 --> 01:16:51,920
Speaker 1: And so we knew we had to do more than wearables,

1686
01:16:51,920 --> 01:16:55,360
Speaker 1: and so we bought this video tactical video platform which

1687
01:16:55,400 --> 01:16:57,080
Speaker 1: is I was talking about, which was very big in

1688
01:16:57,120 --> 01:17:01,040
Speaker 1: the US, had NFL and hockey ice hockey, and we

1689
01:17:01,080 --> 01:17:04,040
Speaker 1: bought that when our share price was probably higher than

1690
01:17:04,240 --> 01:17:08,160
Speaker 1: maybe was justified, and so we used that share price

1691
01:17:08,640 --> 01:17:12,480
Speaker 1: to go and make this acquisition, and that was transformative

1692
01:17:12,479 --> 01:17:15,000
Speaker 1: to the business, like completely transformative. And then recently not

1693
01:17:15,040 --> 01:17:18,479
Speaker 1: this proche acquisition, but we also bought this business called SBG,

1694
01:17:18,960 --> 01:17:21,360
Speaker 1: which was kind of a leap forward in continuing to

1695
01:17:21,360 --> 01:17:23,840
Speaker 1: build out this video business for soccer. I would say

1696
01:17:23,840 --> 01:17:26,800
Speaker 1: like there's been acquisitions along the way that haven't really

1697
01:17:27,000 --> 01:17:29,280
Speaker 1: panned out great for us, but there have been three

1698
01:17:29,280 --> 01:17:32,160
Speaker 1: acquisitions that have been fundamental for the business.

1699
01:17:32,200 --> 01:17:34,719
Speaker 2: If you move on, I think you were talking about.

1700
01:17:34,520 --> 01:17:37,240
Speaker 1: A dares So I feel like I've done a lot

1701
01:17:37,280 --> 01:17:40,800
Speaker 1: of talking in this procrast No, it's not come on.

1702
01:17:41,080 --> 01:17:43,200
Speaker 2: Actually, when we do some analysis on who talks more

1703
01:17:43,200 --> 01:17:45,040
Speaker 2: in these parts, I reckon my condition homework.

1704
01:17:45,040 --> 01:17:47,720
Speaker 1: You can do some analysis on who talks over other

1705
01:17:47,760 --> 01:17:49,760
Speaker 1: people more. By the way, that's not an insult to you.

1706
01:17:49,840 --> 01:17:52,160
Speaker 1: I think it would be close. It's neck and neck,

1707
01:17:52,760 --> 01:17:55,519
Speaker 1: neck and neck. Mike's very quiet, like it doesn't want

1708
01:17:55,560 --> 01:17:57,759
Speaker 1: to take sites. I'll give you a tip. You should

1709
01:17:57,760 --> 01:17:59,920
Speaker 1: take Adam's side because I don't even look at the

1710
01:18:00,040 --> 01:18:04,280
Speaker 1: bank balance presumably he's paying you, So I'm totally relaxed,

1711
01:18:06,360 --> 01:18:10,040
Speaker 1: one hundred percent yred percent. In fact, the crazy thing

1712
01:18:10,160 --> 01:18:12,960
Speaker 1: is people always asking me about this podcast, about like sponsorship, dollars,

1713
01:18:12,960 --> 01:18:16,160
Speaker 1: et cetera. I'm like, I know vaguely the direction we

1714
01:18:16,240 --> 01:18:18,439
Speaker 1: had in my My general disposition is I always say

1715
01:18:18,439 --> 01:18:20,599
Speaker 1: to Adam, no, we should be higher, let's get higher.

1716
01:18:20,760 --> 01:18:21,960
Speaker 1: But if you said to me, how much do we

1717
01:18:22,000 --> 01:18:24,320
Speaker 1: pay for anything, including Mike, I've got no idea. I

1718
01:18:24,360 --> 01:18:26,160
Speaker 1: couldn't care less. You've got it all under control. I

1719
01:18:26,200 --> 01:18:29,280
Speaker 1: always say to people, you are the the I think,

1720
01:18:29,360 --> 01:18:31,680
Speaker 1: the singular I'm going to give a compliment now, so

1721
01:18:31,800 --> 01:18:35,640
Speaker 1: look away from me. It's not embarrassed. Okay, you're the

1722
01:18:35,760 --> 01:18:41,280
Speaker 1: singular most operationally capable person I've ever met. Like you

1723
01:18:41,439 --> 01:18:44,320
Speaker 1: run this whole luxury escapes business with a level of detail.

1724
01:18:44,320 --> 01:18:47,439
Speaker 1: It's frankly across the detail in a way that I

1725
01:18:47,439 --> 01:18:50,160
Speaker 1: would never be if I read it. Plus this whole thing,

1726
01:18:50,200 --> 01:18:51,720
Speaker 1: and people say, how does Adam have time to do it?

1727
01:18:51,720 --> 01:18:53,479
Speaker 1: And I'm like, it doesn't even seem to make a

1728
01:18:53,520 --> 01:18:56,160
Speaker 1: difference to his time. So anyway, it's pretty remarkable. So

1729
01:18:56,240 --> 01:18:58,320
Speaker 1: with that compliment, what I've got to come up with

1730
01:18:58,360 --> 01:19:03,880
Speaker 1: an insult to balance that guy, I'll hit you when

1731
01:19:03,920 --> 01:19:07,479
Speaker 1: you least expect it. So as this goes to well,

1732
01:19:07,520 --> 01:19:10,040
Speaker 1: I was going to say air but to recording, but

1733
01:19:10,120 --> 01:19:14,400
Speaker 1: basically pretty close to going to air A. Dares released

1734
01:19:14,600 --> 01:19:17,960
Speaker 1: an update, a trading update for the end of FY

1735
01:19:18,120 --> 01:19:21,880
Speaker 1: twenty five, which is, you know, one minute away basically,

1736
01:19:21,960 --> 01:19:24,680
Speaker 1: so presumably they've got a pretty good understanding of how

1737
01:19:24,680 --> 01:19:27,080
Speaker 1: it's going to turn out. And it's fair to say

1738
01:19:27,160 --> 01:19:29,200
Speaker 1: the market was not overjoyed about it because it promptly

1739
01:19:29,200 --> 01:19:30,040
Speaker 1: fell twenty percent.

1740
01:19:30,360 --> 01:19:31,599
Speaker 2: Yeah, share price now.

1741
01:19:32,360 --> 01:19:34,559
Speaker 1: It's not out the twelve month low. It's still a

1742
01:19:34,640 --> 01:19:37,840
Speaker 1: thirty percent above the twelve month low. It has little

1743
01:19:37,840 --> 01:19:40,080
Speaker 1: double what it was eight months. It is I should

1744
01:19:40,439 --> 01:19:44,919
Speaker 1: disclose and say today I'm unfortunately in a Darees shareholder,

1745
01:19:45,000 --> 01:19:47,719
Speaker 1: but in generally I'm I'm a believer in it. It's yeah,

1746
01:19:47,800 --> 01:19:49,800
Speaker 1: like I really understand that business. I think it's fair

1747
01:19:49,800 --> 01:19:50,559
Speaker 1: to say because.

1748
01:19:50,320 --> 01:19:52,080
Speaker 2: The business is all over the place. Its graph is

1749
01:19:52,160 --> 01:19:54,120
Speaker 2: up and down, up and down, up, It's like a rollercoast.

1750
01:19:54,160 --> 01:19:56,559
Speaker 1: It's basically worth the same as it was worth pre COVID,

1751
01:19:56,560 --> 01:19:58,679
Speaker 1: but is a better business in my view.

1752
01:19:58,600 --> 01:20:00,559
Speaker 2: If you look at a listed it like to eighty.

1753
01:20:00,760 --> 01:20:04,400
Speaker 2: Then it dropped to sixty five cents in twenty seventeen,

1754
01:20:04,800 --> 01:20:10,200
Speaker 2: then it rose to two forty, and it dropped sort

1755
01:20:10,200 --> 01:20:14,000
Speaker 2: of sixty five cents in COVID in the sandy twenty

1756
01:20:14,000 --> 01:20:17,280
Speaker 2: twenty one hit like five bucks, and then it dropped

1757
01:20:17,320 --> 01:20:20,439
Speaker 2: down to dollar thirty and then went back up. And

1758
01:20:20,800 --> 01:20:22,240
Speaker 2: it's all over the places business.

1759
01:20:22,320 --> 01:20:24,479
Speaker 1: Yeah, and so I'll sell you a few things about

1760
01:20:24,479 --> 01:20:26,200
Speaker 1: it before I say it's now. The reason I know

1761
01:20:26,280 --> 01:20:29,439
Speaker 1: this business so well is I can say this because

1762
01:20:29,680 --> 01:20:35,519
Speaker 1: it came out in court transcript. They were pretty keen

1763
01:20:35,600 --> 01:20:38,360
Speaker 1: on doing a deal with Sleeping Duck at like, you know,

1764
01:20:38,439 --> 01:20:39,400
Speaker 1: north of three hundred mil.

1765
01:20:39,439 --> 01:20:41,559
Speaker 2: And I got the current market cap pretty much.

1766
01:20:41,800 --> 01:20:43,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, well obviously a lot because I don't know, so

1767
01:20:44,120 --> 01:20:47,519
Speaker 1: DU's a trillion times Sleeping Ducks the tab. Yeah it wasn't.

1768
01:20:47,560 --> 01:20:49,599
Speaker 2: I mean a dar's market cap, I know, but like

1769
01:20:49,680 --> 01:20:51,960
Speaker 2: it's almost a desk market cap. But also you know,

1770
01:20:52,040 --> 01:20:54,080
Speaker 2: it's a crazy do you'll want to take. I've got

1771
01:20:54,080 --> 01:20:55,840
Speaker 2: to know them well, I've got to know Trent Peterson well,

1772
01:20:55,840 --> 01:20:57,400
Speaker 2: who I think is now the chairman of it Goes,

1773
01:20:57,920 --> 01:21:01,320
Speaker 2: is a sensational operator and so he's also involved in

1774
01:21:01,439 --> 01:21:03,439
Speaker 2: Dusk and like a chunk he's like a whole lot

1775
01:21:03,439 --> 01:21:06,400
Speaker 2: of stuff with Brett Blundy as well and Soresent Richard.

1776
01:21:06,439 --> 01:21:07,240
Speaker 2: I don't think he's anymore.

1777
01:21:07,240 --> 01:21:10,120
Speaker 1: It was a correct So Trentdy is really an A

1778
01:21:10,280 --> 01:21:13,280
Speaker 1: grade operator. The only thing I don't like about a

1779
01:21:13,280 --> 01:21:16,080
Speaker 1: desk they've got some debts, so that's the thing's not

1780
01:21:16,160 --> 01:21:18,840
Speaker 1: great about it. I still maintain like Dusk is, in

1781
01:21:18,840 --> 01:21:21,599
Speaker 1: my view, like one of the cheapest retailers going around

1782
01:21:21,680 --> 01:21:24,320
Speaker 1: right now. I don't love their products, but like they're

1783
01:21:24,400 --> 01:21:28,479
Speaker 1: But the thing about Adairs is that, like they're a

1784
01:21:28,479 --> 01:21:32,559
Speaker 1: business of a few pieces, and so their main piece

1785
01:21:33,040 --> 01:21:35,600
Speaker 1: is what you see in the Adair stores, which we

1786
01:21:35,640 --> 01:21:40,439
Speaker 1: could broadly just call soft furnishings, and that's the predominant business.

1787
01:21:40,439 --> 01:21:42,599
Speaker 1: I think I've mentioned this to you before. They've got

1788
01:21:42,600 --> 01:21:46,840
Speaker 1: this sheets, yeah, sheets, towels, pillows, et cetera. They sally

1789
01:21:46,880 --> 01:21:50,240
Speaker 1: sell some furniture as well, yeah, but mostly they're soft

1790
01:21:50,240 --> 01:21:53,880
Speaker 1: furnishings business. This is a business where I'm going to

1791
01:21:53,960 --> 01:21:56,479
Speaker 1: say eighty five to ninety percent of purchases come from

1792
01:21:56,560 --> 01:21:59,400
Speaker 1: members of their loyalty programs.

1793
01:22:00,080 --> 01:22:02,479
Speaker 2: It's a strange business to have a very strong loyalty

1794
01:22:02,479 --> 01:22:04,759
Speaker 2: program because it's not like you buy a lot of sheets,

1795
01:22:04,920 --> 01:22:07,800
Speaker 2: you pay forty bucks and you get a discount off

1796
01:22:07,840 --> 01:22:12,040
Speaker 2: every purchase. I mean that's Cogan style, correct, but it's.

1797
01:22:12,040 --> 01:22:15,880
Speaker 1: Cheap, right, it's forty dollars and like it depends, but

1798
01:22:16,000 --> 01:22:17,160
Speaker 1: I think it's at least a ten.

1799
01:22:17,040 --> 01:22:20,400
Speaker 2: Percent massive margins business seventy correct.

1800
01:22:20,880 --> 01:22:22,200
Speaker 1: And so it's got that business.

1801
01:22:22,600 --> 01:22:24,519
Speaker 2: And then it bought it and they really make their

1802
01:22:24,520 --> 01:22:25,880
Speaker 2: own stuff out of China.

1803
01:22:25,920 --> 01:22:28,080
Speaker 1: It's all first part, it's all so one of the

1804
01:22:28,120 --> 01:22:31,400
Speaker 1: things I love about this business is it's their stuff predominantly.

1805
01:22:31,439 --> 01:22:34,479
Speaker 1: I think they sell some jumbuck like whatever those things are,

1806
01:22:34,520 --> 01:22:38,240
Speaker 1: but like predominantly it's their stuff, right, And so what

1807
01:22:38,320 --> 01:22:40,280
Speaker 1: I don't love about it is, you know, the model

1808
01:22:40,439 --> 01:22:43,320
Speaker 1: business is associated with blunding. I know this one isn't now,

1809
01:22:43,360 --> 01:22:46,080
Speaker 1: but it's like their stores often in malls and stuff,

1810
01:22:46,120 --> 01:22:47,880
Speaker 1: which is like high rent, and I mean you're in

1811
01:22:47,960 --> 01:22:51,400
Speaker 1: malls like it's you have to really be a sharp operator.

1812
01:22:51,800 --> 01:22:54,559
Speaker 1: Trent is a sharp operator. Like his payback periods are

1813
01:22:54,560 --> 01:22:57,200
Speaker 1: extremely good on new stores. But like it is tricky.

1814
01:22:57,240 --> 01:23:00,960
Speaker 1: So they've got that business. They've got a business called Mocker,

1815
01:23:01,360 --> 01:23:03,880
Speaker 1: which is like I would just say, it's kind of

1816
01:23:03,920 --> 01:23:07,880
Speaker 1: like a template Webster competitor, but much smaller. Few, yeah, few.

1817
01:23:08,320 --> 01:23:13,120
Speaker 1: They've just started opening concessions inside a Dares stores. But

1818
01:23:13,360 --> 01:23:16,000
Speaker 1: I think it's I would call it quite down market.

1819
01:23:16,560 --> 01:23:18,599
Speaker 1: They had a lot of problems with that business early on.

1820
01:23:19,000 --> 01:23:21,080
Speaker 1: They've fixed a lot of those problems by the looks

1821
01:23:21,080 --> 01:23:23,080
Speaker 1: of things. And then a couple of years ago they

1822
01:23:23,080 --> 01:23:24,559
Speaker 1: bought a business I think they actually brought it off

1823
01:23:24,600 --> 01:23:29,240
Speaker 1: Jeff Leafy and his group, which is called Focus on Furniture.

1824
01:23:30,439 --> 01:23:32,960
Speaker 1: Have you heard of that business? Actually bought my catch there, Okay,

1825
01:23:33,000 --> 01:23:35,080
Speaker 1: And so I thought that was a good purchase at

1826
01:23:35,080 --> 01:23:38,200
Speaker 1: a good price. It's turned out to have some headaches

1827
01:23:38,320 --> 01:23:43,120
Speaker 1: that business, and so I thought this response to this

1828
01:23:43,320 --> 01:23:47,320
Speaker 1: update may have been too severe. The update basically said

1829
01:23:48,360 --> 01:23:51,040
Speaker 1: it gave a repeat of H one, and it pretty

1830
01:23:51,080 --> 01:23:54,280
Speaker 1: much said for H one, the group was up almost

1831
01:23:54,280 --> 01:23:57,320
Speaker 1: seven percent to three hundred and ten million dollars and

1832
01:23:57,400 --> 01:24:00,479
Speaker 1: kept thirty three million dollars of underlying e But so

1833
01:24:00,479 --> 01:24:03,800
Speaker 1: what is that It doesn't include some warehouse software transition

1834
01:24:03,840 --> 01:24:06,000
Speaker 1: and some other bits and pieces. But actually it's pretty good.

1835
01:24:06,040 --> 01:24:08,400
Speaker 1: You can accept underlying ebit. I accept that and so

1836
01:24:08,479 --> 01:24:10,640
Speaker 1: that's pretty good. Like, revenue was up six point six

1837
01:24:10,720 --> 01:24:13,639
Speaker 1: percent in H one and underlung Ebit was up ten percent,

1838
01:24:13,680 --> 01:24:18,160
Speaker 1: so that's margin expansion. The problem was so Adares was

1839
01:24:18,240 --> 01:24:21,400
Speaker 1: up nine percent and it's underlung Ebit was up thirty

1840
01:24:21,439 --> 01:24:24,200
Speaker 1: three percent, so that core business is really good. In

1841
01:24:24,360 --> 01:24:27,680
Speaker 1: H one and Moker was up twelve and twelve. The

1842
01:24:27,760 --> 01:24:30,559
Speaker 1: problem is focused on furniture was down four and it's

1843
01:24:30,640 --> 01:24:33,160
Speaker 1: underlung Ebitt was down twenty three percent. And so when

1844
01:24:33,200 --> 01:24:35,360
Speaker 1: you see something like that, what you think is not

1845
01:24:35,400 --> 01:24:38,360
Speaker 1: only have they got problems with sales, but their margins

1846
01:24:38,360 --> 01:24:40,800
Speaker 1: are collapsing there as well in that business, in that

1847
01:24:40,960 --> 01:24:43,040
Speaker 1: particular focus on furniture business.

1848
01:24:42,800 --> 01:24:45,200
Speaker 2: The biggest of the total business. How big is Focus

1849
01:24:45,600 --> 01:24:46,599
Speaker 2: much of the business of the.

1850
01:24:46,600 --> 01:24:50,599
Speaker 1: Three ten Adares is two twenty yeh Focus is sixty two,

1851
01:24:50,720 --> 01:24:51,960
Speaker 1: and Locker is twenty eight.

1852
01:24:52,360 --> 01:24:55,599
Speaker 2: Yeah, but these business makes what thirty million bucks net

1853
01:24:55,600 --> 01:24:56,240
Speaker 2: profitty year.

1854
01:24:56,200 --> 01:24:58,800
Speaker 1: Right, I don't know what it's saing made that I

1855
01:24:58,840 --> 01:25:01,200
Speaker 1: no matter how it splits it, I know it's underlying ebit.

1856
01:25:01,560 --> 01:25:04,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, you've see their profit for the first half for

1857
01:25:04,080 --> 01:25:08,479
Speaker 2: the half ending one Jan this year was almost twenty million.

1858
01:25:08,600 --> 01:25:11,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, so it would have a bias that so yeah,

1859
01:25:11,120 --> 01:25:13,880
Speaker 1: I think it's probably that's probably right. They talk about

1860
01:25:13,960 --> 01:25:17,960
Speaker 1: underlying EBIT, so we'll talk about those numbers. The problem is,

1861
01:25:18,000 --> 01:25:20,440
Speaker 1: even though focus on when you've got three businesses.

1862
01:25:20,080 --> 01:25:22,680
Speaker 2: Even what was an unklining EBIT last six months.

1863
01:25:22,439 --> 01:25:25,759
Speaker 1: Thirty three six months, yeah, H one thirty three underlying

1864
01:25:25,840 --> 01:25:28,400
Speaker 1: ebit yeap, and so they're on it like five times

1865
01:25:29,160 --> 01:25:32,479
Speaker 1: the well, so the problem is this. The problem is

1866
01:25:32,800 --> 01:25:37,880
Speaker 1: that Adares continues to perform pretty strongly. Like their H

1867
01:25:38,040 --> 01:25:42,200
Speaker 1: two was up the same nine percent as H one,

1868
01:25:43,000 --> 01:25:45,360
Speaker 1: and like, look, they're not getting the margin expansion, the

1869
01:25:45,400 --> 01:25:48,800
Speaker 1: thirty three percent margin expand growth that they got in

1870
01:25:48,840 --> 01:25:51,679
Speaker 1: underlowing ebitar, but they've still got eight point four percent,

1871
01:25:51,720 --> 01:25:54,120
Speaker 1: So yeah, they had a bit of margin contraction. But

1872
01:25:54,280 --> 01:25:57,400
Speaker 1: overall for the year, Adares is expecting to be up

1873
01:25:57,479 --> 01:26:01,960
Speaker 1: around nine percent and underlying it's twenty one percent like

1874
01:26:02,160 --> 01:26:05,439
Speaker 1: margin expansion, and that's the bulk of their business, right,

1875
01:26:05,439 --> 01:26:08,000
Speaker 1: so of the six hundred and fourteen to six hundred

1876
01:26:08,000 --> 01:26:09,960
Speaker 1: and eighteen million dollars that they expect for the fully,

1877
01:26:10,080 --> 01:26:13,920
Speaker 1: that's their guidance. A Dares is four forty ish, like

1878
01:26:14,040 --> 01:26:17,759
Speaker 1: it's it's more than two thirds, and so you would say,

1879
01:26:17,840 --> 01:26:19,920
Speaker 1: this is why I think it's been too harsh. And

1880
01:26:19,960 --> 01:26:22,720
Speaker 1: then we go to Moka, the littlest of the businesses.

1881
01:26:22,840 --> 01:26:24,880
Speaker 1: All right, it was up twelve in the first half.

1882
01:26:25,200 --> 01:26:27,439
Speaker 1: In the second half, its revenue is up sixteen that's

1883
01:26:27,439 --> 01:26:30,880
Speaker 1: the forecast. It's second half margin. Instead of being up

1884
01:26:31,120 --> 01:26:33,719
Speaker 1: the same twelve percent as revenue is up, it's second

1885
01:26:33,760 --> 01:26:37,360
Speaker 1: half margin is forecast to be up twenty seven percent.

1886
01:26:37,400 --> 01:26:40,559
Speaker 1: So it's getting margin expansion. And so that looks pretty good, right,

1887
01:26:41,000 --> 01:26:44,400
Speaker 1: And so all of that is fantastic. The problem is

1888
01:26:44,800 --> 01:26:47,160
Speaker 1: all you need is like you know, if every one

1889
01:26:47,200 --> 01:26:50,160
Speaker 1: of your teeth are perfect, wide and shiny, but one

1890
01:26:50,200 --> 01:26:53,599
Speaker 1: of them needs a root canal alogia before one root

1891
01:26:53,680 --> 01:26:56,600
Speaker 1: canal ruins your whole mouth. And so I think the

1892
01:26:56,680 --> 01:27:00,040
Speaker 1: problem is that focus on furniture. It looks like it

1893
01:27:00,040 --> 01:27:01,559
Speaker 1: it's a root canal. It may not.

1894
01:27:01,720 --> 01:27:04,120
Speaker 2: By the way, this is a classic conglomerate issue where

1895
01:27:04,160 --> 01:27:06,400
Speaker 2: the conglomerate, so you have a big conglomerate, it could

1896
01:27:06,400 --> 01:27:08,720
Speaker 2: be ten different businesses and the market just gives it

1897
01:27:08,760 --> 01:27:10,640
Speaker 2: the multiple of the worst business, even though in this

1898
01:27:10,680 --> 01:27:13,000
Speaker 2: case it's like the smallest business. So if the Dares

1899
01:27:13,080 --> 01:27:15,400
Speaker 2: was just the Dares and it was making thirty million

1900
01:27:15,479 --> 01:27:18,559
Speaker 2: net on two twenty at growing at fifteen percent or

1901
01:27:18,560 --> 01:27:21,639
Speaker 2: whatever it is. That's a five teen hundred million dollar business,

1902
01:27:21,640 --> 01:27:24,040
Speaker 2: no problem. Yeah, So it just be that the market

1903
01:27:24,120 --> 01:27:24,840
Speaker 2: feels really well.

1904
01:27:24,920 --> 01:27:27,559
Speaker 1: Let me tell you how problematic H two is looking

1905
01:27:27,680 --> 01:27:30,000
Speaker 1: for focus on furniture. So I said they were down

1906
01:27:30,360 --> 01:27:34,120
Speaker 1: four percent in H one and their underlung EBIT was

1907
01:27:34,160 --> 01:27:38,360
Speaker 1: down twenty three percent. In H two they're down ten percent.

1908
01:27:38,840 --> 01:27:42,559
Speaker 1: Their underlung EBIT is down fifty five percent. What's basically

1909
01:27:42,640 --> 01:27:44,760
Speaker 1: happened and what a des has said in the commentary

1910
01:27:44,840 --> 01:27:48,720
Speaker 1: is it's been very hard to make sales and so

1911
01:27:48,960 --> 01:27:53,479
Speaker 1: we've been discounting running promotions and that's the consequence. Right,

1912
01:27:53,520 --> 01:27:55,759
Speaker 1: not only are your sales down, but they're much less

1913
01:27:55,760 --> 01:27:59,960
Speaker 1: profitable sales as well. And so it's still a positive

1914
01:28:00,080 --> 01:28:02,559
Speaker 1: underlying EBITDA business. So the guidance for the full year,

1915
01:28:02,600 --> 01:28:05,080
Speaker 1: even on that focus on furniture business is let's call

1916
01:28:05,080 --> 01:28:07,120
Speaker 1: it one hundred and eighteen million dollars of revenue for

1917
01:28:07,439 --> 01:28:11,280
Speaker 1: twelve plus mil of underlying but that's down like seven

1918
01:28:11,360 --> 01:28:14,719
Speaker 1: percent and thirty six percent respectively. That's what the market

1919
01:28:14,720 --> 01:28:17,800
Speaker 1: has hated. I think when I look at this, it

1920
01:28:17,800 --> 01:28:19,880
Speaker 1: feels like an overreaction. This is a business that's running

1921
01:28:19,920 --> 01:28:22,960
Speaker 1: at a five percent fully franked dividend. The rest of

1922
01:28:23,000 --> 01:28:25,519
Speaker 1: the business is growing really well. They've said shut these

1923
01:28:25,520 --> 01:28:28,080
Speaker 1: business down, Well, they just bought it and they've actually

1924
01:28:28,120 --> 01:28:30,360
Speaker 1: to their and you know one of the they've just

1925
01:28:30,400 --> 01:28:33,360
Speaker 1: swapped CEOs recently, and this could be a bit, you know,

1926
01:28:33,400 --> 01:28:36,280
Speaker 1: clearing the decks a bit as well. They've said, like

1927
01:28:36,560 --> 01:28:39,400
Speaker 1: the refurbished in news stores for focus on furniture are

1928
01:28:39,439 --> 01:28:43,360
Speaker 1: performing better than like the older stores. So yeah, I

1929
01:28:43,360 --> 01:28:46,000
Speaker 1: think it's an overreaction, but I will say the problem

1930
01:28:46,040 --> 01:28:49,040
Speaker 1: they've got there's there's a macro problem and an Adares problem.

1931
01:28:49,240 --> 01:28:53,280
Speaker 1: I think here the Adares problem is you said it's

1932
01:28:53,280 --> 01:28:55,680
Speaker 1: been their share price is a roller coaster. And I

1933
01:28:55,680 --> 01:28:59,040
Speaker 1: think one of the things I learned with Catapult, which

1934
01:28:59,280 --> 01:29:00,880
Speaker 1: might be a slow and it took me a while

1935
01:29:00,920 --> 01:29:04,559
Speaker 1: to learn, but the way to have the market really

1936
01:29:05,360 --> 01:29:08,840
Speaker 1: like you is to make very clear commitments and then

1937
01:29:08,920 --> 01:29:12,040
Speaker 1: consistently deliver on those commitments and over deliver where you can.

1938
01:29:12,680 --> 01:29:14,760
Speaker 1: And I think the problem with the Dares is it's

1939
01:29:14,800 --> 01:29:18,360
Speaker 1: been a roller coaster of under and over deliver and

1940
01:29:18,400 --> 01:29:19,439
Speaker 1: the market like.

1941
01:29:19,439 --> 01:29:22,360
Speaker 2: A business like a Dares Sung sheets and towels shouldn't

1942
01:29:22,360 --> 01:29:23,679
Speaker 2: be that sicklical a business.

1943
01:29:23,880 --> 01:29:27,599
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's not. It's not. And so I think

1944
01:29:27,800 --> 01:29:31,320
Speaker 1: the thing that's made it trickier to project has been

1945
01:29:31,360 --> 01:29:33,800
Speaker 1: these furniture businesses. And by the way, Moka was like

1946
01:29:33,880 --> 01:29:36,160
Speaker 1: a real headache for the first couple of years. Now

1947
01:29:36,160 --> 01:29:38,920
Speaker 1: it's looking a lot better. It's small. I think the

1948
01:29:38,960 --> 01:29:41,960
Speaker 1: macro problem this points to is this Moka is cheaper.

1949
01:29:42,560 --> 01:29:45,800
Speaker 1: Focus on furniture. You bought, focus on furniture, and so

1950
01:29:46,200 --> 01:29:47,800
Speaker 1: it's not like you know, you're not buying.

1951
01:29:49,240 --> 01:29:50,479
Speaker 2: It goes like the rest of the button and thing

1952
01:29:50,520 --> 01:29:52,280
Speaker 2: goes up. It was like twelve hundred bucks. It was great, yep.

1953
01:29:52,520 --> 01:29:56,160
Speaker 1: And so it's not a polyform kind of price range,

1954
01:29:56,240 --> 01:29:59,240
Speaker 1: but it is a higher price range. And I think

1955
01:29:59,280 --> 01:30:01,800
Speaker 1: that it's you know, you like that particular sofa, But

1956
01:30:01,840 --> 01:30:06,280
Speaker 1: if you look at their range, it's relatively undifferentiated product

1957
01:30:06,439 --> 01:30:08,679
Speaker 1: compared to competitors, which by the way, is what appealed

1958
01:30:08,680 --> 01:30:11,400
Speaker 1: to me about Eva, right, because it's fundamentally different type

1959
01:30:11,400 --> 01:30:14,120
Speaker 1: of furniture. But I think that if you are in

1960
01:30:14,160 --> 01:30:19,559
Speaker 1: this kind of mid market with undifferentiated product, and I'm

1961
01:30:19,600 --> 01:30:21,040
Speaker 1: not trying to be harsh to them, but it is

1962
01:30:21,120 --> 01:30:23,800
Speaker 1: relatively I think that is a very hard place to

1963
01:30:23,800 --> 01:30:26,280
Speaker 1: be in the economy right now, and that's why I

1964
01:30:26,320 --> 01:30:29,160
Speaker 1: think when I look at this business, it's not a

1965
01:30:29,160 --> 01:30:31,760
Speaker 1: great time to be releasing updates when there's a war

1966
01:30:31,840 --> 01:30:34,080
Speaker 1: going on between Iran and the US to begin with.

1967
01:30:34,640 --> 01:30:36,560
Speaker 1: But I do think that a twenty percent drop in

1968
01:30:36,600 --> 01:30:39,960
Speaker 1: a business that it was not expensive to begin with,

1969
01:30:40,360 --> 01:30:43,920
Speaker 1: it feels to me like an overestimate, like an overreaction.

1970
01:30:45,080 --> 01:30:49,240
Speaker 1: It'll be interesting to see Nick Scale's full year results

1971
01:30:49,760 --> 01:30:52,640
Speaker 1: to see how that compares to Focus on Furniture. Nick

1972
01:30:52,680 --> 01:30:55,920
Speaker 1: Scully brand is much much stronger than Focus on Furniture. Yeah,

1973
01:30:55,920 --> 01:30:58,559
Speaker 1: I think my number one comment about Focus on Furniture

1974
01:30:58,600 --> 01:31:01,320
Speaker 1: is in the couple of year since they bought it,

1975
01:31:01,320 --> 01:31:03,400
Speaker 1: it doesn't feel like they've done much to elevate the

1976
01:31:03,439 --> 01:31:06,240
Speaker 1: brand and position the brand clearly, and it continues to

1977
01:31:06,280 --> 01:31:10,000
Speaker 1: be relatively undifferentiated in the market. How did you like choose?

1978
01:31:10,080 --> 01:31:11,600
Speaker 2: We had to walk past it and saw it and

1979
01:31:11,640 --> 01:31:14,160
Speaker 2: brought it. Where did you say for our house? We

1980
01:31:14,439 --> 01:31:16,560
Speaker 2: were renovating a house, so we weren't This wasn't that

1981
01:31:16,640 --> 01:31:18,240
Speaker 2: forever cash. This was the coush to get U through

1982
01:31:18,240 --> 01:31:19,840
Speaker 2: a couple of years and we'll get a new one.

1983
01:31:20,080 --> 01:31:23,360
Speaker 2: I think they've got a store in DF that's where

1984
01:31:23,360 --> 01:31:26,720
Speaker 2: you were. Yeah, so you're walking through your story, there's

1985
01:31:26,720 --> 01:31:28,439
Speaker 2: like three or four furniture places really close.

1986
01:31:28,520 --> 01:31:30,000
Speaker 1: Were you on the hunt for a sofa?

1987
01:31:30,120 --> 01:31:32,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, we have sofa. Like we bought one from I

1988
01:31:32,760 --> 01:31:35,760
Speaker 2: don't know, like am Art or whatever. It was yeah,

1989
01:31:35,880 --> 01:31:39,200
Speaker 2: old and am who just bought Freedom, Yes, yep. And

1990
01:31:39,240 --> 01:31:40,960
Speaker 2: it was so old that like it was like basically

1991
01:31:41,080 --> 01:31:43,920
Speaker 2: like ruined. It couldn't sit on it. Yeah, it was

1992
01:31:43,920 --> 01:31:45,400
Speaker 2: going it was a collapsing. So I had to buy

1993
01:31:45,439 --> 01:31:47,080
Speaker 2: a new one and we got one that was actually

1994
01:31:47,080 --> 01:31:47,639
Speaker 2: it's a great.

1995
01:31:47,439 --> 01:31:50,200
Speaker 1: It's a good cash and so was your Like was

1996
01:31:50,280 --> 01:31:54,639
Speaker 1: the contemplation period for the purchase like ten minutes pretty much? Yeah,

1997
01:31:54,640 --> 01:31:55,960
Speaker 1: so you walked in bought it.

1998
01:31:55,960 --> 01:31:58,439
Speaker 2: That's not my usual content near to me and my wife,

1999
01:31:58,680 --> 01:32:01,640
Speaker 2: my kids like shopping anyway, So we're in there. We

2000
01:32:01,680 --> 01:32:03,799
Speaker 2: could getut QUI couldn't get out the quick We couldn't

2001
01:32:03,800 --> 01:32:04,639
Speaker 2: get out that quick enough.

2002
01:32:04,640 --> 01:32:06,680
Speaker 1: How fast did they get it to you?

2003
01:32:07,040 --> 01:32:08,400
Speaker 2: Oh, like within a week.

2004
01:32:08,640 --> 01:32:11,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think they're kind of like a direct to

2005
01:32:12,040 --> 01:32:15,320
Speaker 1: consumer business, even though with their stores, I mean, I

2006
01:32:15,360 --> 01:32:17,479
Speaker 1: find the store is very uninspiring. Right, It's like a

2007
01:32:17,760 --> 01:32:20,400
Speaker 1: kind of a it's like a Nick scale, right, It's

2008
01:32:20,400 --> 01:32:23,840
Speaker 1: like a couch basically exactly. And if you were buying

2009
01:32:23,880 --> 01:32:27,720
Speaker 1: a forever couch, I'm not literally forever, but ten years, like,

2010
01:32:27,800 --> 01:32:29,240
Speaker 1: where do you think you would look for that?

2011
01:32:29,800 --> 01:32:31,600
Speaker 2: We'll probably get it, like an interior designer to do

2012
01:32:31,640 --> 01:32:34,559
Speaker 2: a house when we finish it, so we'll probably take

2013
01:32:34,560 --> 01:32:37,400
Speaker 2: guidance from there. Right then compare some prices and wherever

2014
01:32:37,439 --> 01:32:41,160
Speaker 2: we go to a higher end place than focus on

2015
01:32:41,240 --> 01:32:41,679
Speaker 2: what I thought.

2016
01:32:41,840 --> 01:32:45,320
Speaker 1: But twenty years ago or ten years ago, I think

2017
01:32:45,400 --> 01:32:48,640
Speaker 1: people would have answered King Furniture to that. But I

2018
01:32:48,680 --> 01:32:51,240
Speaker 1: think that's been diminishing a bit. I might be wrong

2019
01:32:51,280 --> 01:32:53,760
Speaker 1: about that, but they kind of had that space, which

2020
01:32:53,840 --> 01:32:56,559
Speaker 1: is like, you know, everybody needs a great brand hook,

2021
01:32:56,840 --> 01:33:00,680
Speaker 1: and King's brand hook was their steel frame. That's what

2022
01:33:00,720 --> 01:33:04,639
Speaker 1: everybody knows about King. Doesn't matter, probably not timber. Timber

2023
01:33:04,760 --> 01:33:07,400
Speaker 1: is fine, right, but that was their brand hook. And

2024
01:33:07,479 --> 01:33:09,240
Speaker 1: I think when you think about that business all the

2025
01:33:09,240 --> 01:33:12,080
Speaker 1: way up, growing up in my twenties thirties, that was

2026
01:33:12,120 --> 01:33:15,040
Speaker 1: a brand that you could kind of aspire to stretch

2027
01:33:15,040 --> 01:33:17,160
Speaker 1: a bit on your budget and buy it, and they

2028
01:33:17,200 --> 01:33:20,519
Speaker 1: do last, So I'm not always trying to think like

2029
01:33:20,520 --> 01:33:23,479
Speaker 1: I always have these conversations internally, like what's the next king?

2030
01:33:24,280 --> 01:33:25,640
Speaker 1: Like what's going to replace it?

2031
01:33:25,760 --> 01:33:25,920
Speaker 2: Right?

2032
01:33:26,080 --> 01:33:27,320
Speaker 1: So interesting, I don't know.

2033
01:33:27,320 --> 01:33:29,680
Speaker 2: They'll probably wrap it up there out of time. It

2034
01:33:29,720 --> 01:33:31,800
Speaker 2: was a great episode. What's happening is about last in

2035
01:33:31,800 --> 01:33:34,200
Speaker 2: person for a little while. I'm heading overseas hopefully later

2036
01:33:34,280 --> 01:33:40,280
Speaker 2: this week airspace permitted some way to go. You're flying

2037
01:33:40,439 --> 01:33:45,280
Speaker 2: the you know, fifty kilometer little corridor between one war

2038
01:33:45,320 --> 01:33:48,599
Speaker 2: and the other work basically exactly, so hopefully get through

2039
01:33:48,680 --> 01:33:51,920
Speaker 2: and hopefully this comfort comes from end sooner rather than later.

2040
01:33:52,320 --> 01:33:54,799
Speaker 2: And you can you say who you're flying with with Aka,

2041
01:33:54,960 --> 01:33:58,000
Speaker 2: with Emirates, with Emirates, Yeah, because it's very hard.

2042
01:33:58,040 --> 01:33:58,920
Speaker 1: I love Emirates.

2043
01:33:59,000 --> 01:34:01,200
Speaker 2: I prefer Catar, but Emas is pretty good. But I

2044
01:34:01,240 --> 01:34:04,720
Speaker 2: think guitars. The Catar just won the Skytracks number one. Yeah,

2045
01:34:05,120 --> 01:34:08,920
Speaker 2: you know, I met the Skytreks guy in his name's

2046
01:34:09,120 --> 01:34:12,240
Speaker 2: Edward place Dead. I reached out to him when I

2047
01:34:12,320 --> 01:34:15,240
Speaker 2: was originally running Global Reviews. Really back, I think I

2048
01:34:15,280 --> 01:34:17,600
Speaker 2: reached out to him in two thousand and one and

2049
01:34:17,680 --> 01:34:20,400
Speaker 2: had like five or six interactions with him because I

2050
01:34:20,439 --> 01:34:22,680
Speaker 2: loved the idea of rating things and he had just

2051
01:34:22,880 --> 01:34:25,160
Speaker 2: kind of started this skygress space. Right.

2052
01:34:25,680 --> 01:34:27,280
Speaker 1: I thought he was in London, but you might.

2053
01:34:27,160 --> 01:34:31,760
Speaker 2: Be right, Amideius, I think was in Paris, French. Yep, yeah,

2054
01:34:31,800 --> 01:34:33,640
Speaker 2: it's French, right, And so I mean, I don't know

2055
01:34:34,240 --> 01:34:36,880
Speaker 2: the US one. I don't know if Amidas is still huge,

2056
01:34:36,880 --> 01:34:39,280
Speaker 2: but that was like the GDS that everybody used when

2057
01:34:39,280 --> 01:34:42,600
Speaker 2: I was pretty split, like say, Bradys had pretty even.

2058
01:34:42,600 --> 01:34:45,799
Speaker 1: And so basically he was just early on in that business.

2059
01:34:45,840 --> 01:34:47,800
Speaker 1: And I think his website was not I mean, he

2060
01:34:47,800 --> 01:34:50,800
Speaker 1: had the Skytraks brand. It was like airline ratings or

2061
01:34:50,840 --> 01:34:53,720
Speaker 1: something like that. And it's amazing to watch and like

2062
01:34:53,800 --> 01:34:57,599
Speaker 1: a bit heartbreaking for me to watch. What like how

2063
01:34:57,680 --> 01:34:59,200
Speaker 1: much credibility that this.

2064
01:34:59,120 --> 01:35:00,000
Speaker 2: Is built up over.

2065
01:35:01,400 --> 01:35:02,320
Speaker 1: Do make money?

2066
01:35:02,560 --> 01:35:05,799
Speaker 2: They must charge airlines to participate, right.

2067
01:35:05,720 --> 01:35:08,320
Speaker 1: I would have thought, I mean, yeah, it's interesting. The

2068
01:35:08,360 --> 01:35:10,480
Speaker 1: pr they get is next level, it's unbelievable.

2069
01:35:10,600 --> 01:35:13,280
Speaker 3: Before we go as well, let's do a big plug

2070
01:35:13,320 --> 01:35:15,519
Speaker 3: and a thank you to everyone who's sent in questions

2071
01:35:15,520 --> 01:35:17,200
Speaker 3: for our Q and a yeps and if you have

2072
01:35:17,240 --> 01:35:19,720
Speaker 3: a question for Adam and a deer, literally anything at all,

2073
01:35:20,160 --> 01:35:22,400
Speaker 3: just get it to us. There's many many platforms you

2074
01:35:22,400 --> 01:35:28,400
Speaker 3: can LinkedIn, LinkedIn, dot com, yeh voice, voice message on

2075
01:35:28,479 --> 01:35:31,920
Speaker 3: LinkedIn message, personal, Instagram. There are so many ways you'll

2076
01:35:31,960 --> 01:35:34,240
Speaker 3: figure one out. We would love to hear from.

2077
01:35:34,200 --> 01:35:34,680
Speaker 2: Before we go.

2078
01:35:34,760 --> 01:35:36,400
Speaker 1: I'm going to make it worthwhile for the people that

2079
01:35:36,439 --> 01:35:38,280
Speaker 1: have stayed to the end, which is basically everyone to

2080
01:35:38,320 --> 01:35:38,679
Speaker 1: be fair.

2081
01:35:38,720 --> 01:35:39,120
Speaker 2: But like.

2082
01:35:40,680 --> 01:35:43,479
Speaker 1: So, movie recommendation, I.

2083
01:35:43,360 --> 01:35:44,280
Speaker 2: Thought you hated movies.

2084
01:35:45,160 --> 01:35:51,360
Speaker 1: Airline play choice, the man who definitely didn't steal Hollywood.

2085
01:35:52,160 --> 01:35:54,559
Speaker 1: It's about it's actually what it's called. Yep, Okay, it's

2086
01:35:54,600 --> 01:35:55,680
Speaker 1: about an Italian guy.

2087
01:35:55,720 --> 01:35:57,360
Speaker 2: He's watched it. Yep.

2088
01:35:57,640 --> 01:36:02,120
Speaker 1: It's an Italian guy who made all this money. He's

2089
01:36:02,160 --> 01:36:05,479
Speaker 1: heavily involved in the documentaries in his eighties. No one

2090
01:36:05,560 --> 01:36:07,320
Speaker 1: really knows how he made all of his money. At

2091
01:36:07,360 --> 01:36:10,080
Speaker 1: one stage he owned merely a hotels.

2092
01:36:10,760 --> 01:36:12,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, he was like, that's a big brand. Made a

2093
01:36:12,840 --> 01:36:16,200
Speaker 2: movie for the Pope, bought a movie studio that was

2094
01:36:16,360 --> 01:36:19,679
Speaker 2: like the studio that John Claude Van Dam and Chuck Norris.

2095
01:36:20,280 --> 01:36:23,519
Speaker 2: He made the movie that was like, you know, the

2096
01:36:23,560 --> 01:36:27,479
Speaker 2: Azaria Chamberlain. I did go to a baby movie that

2097
01:36:27,600 --> 01:36:29,960
Speaker 2: was his studio that made those Who's the other guy

2098
01:36:29,960 --> 01:36:32,240
Speaker 2: who was in it, Sam Neil?

2099
01:36:31,880 --> 01:36:33,840
Speaker 1: And I only know that because I watched the movie

2100
01:36:33,840 --> 01:36:38,439
Speaker 1: one minute ago and like all these just incredible movies,

2101
01:36:38,920 --> 01:36:42,920
Speaker 1: and he cares zero percent about movies. And in the end,

2102
01:36:43,000 --> 01:36:45,840
Speaker 1: the reason that they've made a movie about him is

2103
01:36:45,880 --> 01:36:49,480
Speaker 1: because he's the guy that bought MGM of Kurt Krekorian

2104
01:36:49,600 --> 01:36:52,960
Speaker 1: for one point three billion dollars nineties in the nineties.

2105
01:36:53,000 --> 01:36:56,240
Speaker 1: I won't ruin the movie. It's basically this incredible guy

2106
01:36:58,000 --> 01:37:05,880
Speaker 1: I can't even remember. That sounds right and so and

2107
01:37:05,920 --> 01:37:09,679
Speaker 1: basically I just you should watch this movie to see Cardigan.

2108
01:37:09,880 --> 01:37:13,120
Speaker 1: It's called The Man Who Definitely Didn't Steal Hollywood?

2109
01:37:13,200 --> 01:37:14,920
Speaker 2: Is it like a social movie or is it like

2110
01:37:14,920 --> 01:37:15,600
Speaker 2: a docco.

2111
01:37:15,400 --> 01:37:18,760
Speaker 1: Or a documentary. There's a reason for that title, which

2112
01:37:18,920 --> 01:37:20,799
Speaker 1: I'm not going to ruin. It become obvious in the movie.

2113
01:37:20,960 --> 01:37:24,200
Speaker 1: You will never, I think, watch a movie where there

2114
01:37:24,280 --> 01:37:30,360
Speaker 1: was a bigger, more incredible deal that was more ridiculous

2115
01:37:30,560 --> 01:37:34,920
Speaker 1: and I guess dishonest that everybody just wanted to happen,

2116
01:37:35,320 --> 01:37:37,320
Speaker 1: and so everybody went along with it. You know who

2117
01:37:37,320 --> 01:37:38,639
Speaker 1: owns MGM today?

2118
01:37:38,680 --> 01:37:39,080
Speaker 2: Amazon?

2119
01:37:39,080 --> 01:37:41,439
Speaker 1: Now, yes, it's Amazon that's doing well, right because.

2120
01:37:41,200 --> 01:37:43,599
Speaker 2: They bought the Bond because that holding about the Broccoli

2121
01:37:43,640 --> 01:37:46,160
Speaker 2: family and the Bond franchise yep, and.

2122
01:37:46,080 --> 01:37:51,200
Speaker 1: So this guy kind of lost the Bond franchise. Basically,

2123
01:37:51,200 --> 01:37:53,719
Speaker 1: he lost everything within ten seconds of owning this studio.

2124
01:37:54,320 --> 01:37:57,400
Speaker 2: And you will love this stuio is almost like buying

2125
01:37:57,439 --> 01:37:59,840
Speaker 2: an airline in terms of like how many go wrong?

2126
01:38:00,000 --> 01:38:02,439
Speaker 1: I don't know as goes wrong? Yes, unless you're d

2127
01:38:02,800 --> 01:38:05,760
Speaker 1: but you but he had these like I don't want

2128
01:38:05,760 --> 01:38:09,040
Speaker 1: to ruin it, but he had some enormous wins while

2129
01:38:09,040 --> 01:38:11,839
Speaker 1: he owned the studio that kind of kept him going. Anyway,

2130
01:38:11,840 --> 01:38:13,479
Speaker 1: he really didn't have the money to buy this studio.

2131
01:38:13,479 --> 01:38:15,600
Speaker 1: I won't tell you where the money came from. It's fascinating.

2132
01:38:16,000 --> 01:38:19,960
Speaker 1: I could not recommend to you in particular this movie thing.

2133
01:38:19,960 --> 01:38:21,639
Speaker 2: There was the whole thing with Ripper Murdoch and then

2134
01:38:21,720 --> 01:38:24,320
Speaker 2: eighties and that and the whole Michael Milkine was involved.

2135
01:38:24,360 --> 01:38:26,559
Speaker 2: There was a whole thing with MGM and it was

2136
01:38:26,840 --> 01:38:28,839
Speaker 2: Kirka cor was also the Las Vegas casino.

2137
01:38:28,920 --> 01:38:32,679
Speaker 1: Well that's what I think. He might be the father

2138
01:38:32,920 --> 01:38:37,600
Speaker 1: of the Mega resort basically pretty yeah, but Cocord was

2139
01:38:37,640 --> 01:38:40,160
Speaker 1: before him, Like yeah, I think he would you could

2140
01:38:40,200 --> 01:38:42,440
Speaker 1: call him the father of that. I think his Armenian

2141
01:38:42,520 --> 01:38:44,160
Speaker 1: is and he that's his background. I think that name

2142
01:38:44,200 --> 01:38:46,800
Speaker 1: sounds Armenian to me. Yeah, it was a great time.

2143
01:38:46,840 --> 01:38:49,200
Speaker 2: I think it was a business wars that went through

2144
01:38:49,240 --> 01:38:52,120
Speaker 2: that was actually quite good with winning and all that.

2145
01:38:52,200 --> 01:38:54,800
Speaker 1: Right, well, you got to watch this movie and tell

2146
01:38:54,840 --> 01:38:58,840
Speaker 1: me what you think of it. I don't know. Yeah, yeah,

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01:38:58,840 --> 01:39:00,960
Speaker 1: you can watch it. The plane takes off. Definitely watch it. Yep,

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01:39:01,200 --> 01:39:03,040
Speaker 1: you'll definitely get well. I was going to say you'll

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01:39:03,040 --> 01:39:05,400
Speaker 1: definitely get to Dubai. Well that might not be true.

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01:39:05,320 --> 01:39:08,360
Speaker 1: Getting out of Dubai's the truth. Yeah, both through the

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01:39:08,360 --> 01:39:09,920
Speaker 1: sewers something of this. Right, that's right.

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01:39:10,200 --> 01:39:12,360
Speaker 2: Well, so thank thank you everyone for listening in. Thank you,

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01:39:12,400 --> 01:39:14,800
Speaker 2: I thank you Mike. As always, We'll be back next

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01:39:14,800 --> 01:39:19,479
Speaker 2: week as always with invest in news, business technology, and

2155
01:39:19,520 --> 01:39:26,400
Speaker 2: of course our views. See then I did. Did you

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Speaker 2: know one of my favorite businesses, net Wealth, the ASX

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Speaker 2: listed goliath founded in Melbourne, is giving an incredible offer

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Speaker 2: just for Contrarian's listeners.

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Speaker 1: I'm actually about to start using net Wealth's investment account,

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Speaker 1: which is perfect for self made super funds. I can

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Speaker 1: see what you like them so much.

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Speaker 2: you to invest in a wide range of assets via

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Speaker 2: well as seven hundred managed funds and a huge range

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Speaker 2: For wholesale investors, it even allows you to choose from

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Speaker 2: a huge range of turn deposits to get the best

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Speaker 2: interest rate without having to deal with banks separately.

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Speaker 1: I love how Netwealth lets you add alternative investments like

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Speaker 1: venture capital, which is great for angel investors, but.

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Speaker 2: I've done exactly that. I've combined my fifteen early stage

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Speaker 2: investments and all my VC and managed funds in the

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Speaker 2: does it all with pretty much the click of a button. Plus,

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Speaker 2: Exclusive to Contrarians listeners, Netwealth is giving up to twenty

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Speaker 2: vary by account and type, and check the website for

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Speaker 2: important disclaimers. Remember always seek financial advice