S1: Hey, I'm Osman Farooqui and this is The Drop, a
S1: weekly culture show from the Sydney Morning Herald and The Age,
S1: where we dive into the latest in the world of
S1: pop culture and entertainment. I mean, with Thomas Mitchell and
S1: Meg Watson. How you going, pals? Good.
S2: Happy to be back again.
S1: Very excited to have you back again. Mel is still off,
S1: but I can assure you she's on the mend. Hopefully
S1: back with us soon. Thomas, how are you doing?
S3: Yeah, I'm pretty good. Um, yeah. That hand, foot and
S3: mouth really gets you, Mel. So everyone's thinking of you and, uh. No,
S3: I'm very good. You know, it's been a big week already.
S3: A week that started at, like, you know, 1 p.m.
S3: on Sunday as we geared up for the Logies, an
S3: event we both love and work on consistently. Osman.
S1: It's crazy. If you told me ten years ago the
S1: amount of time and energy I would spend on planning
S1: our coverage of the Logies, doing our coverage of the Logies,
S1: and then reflecting on our coverage of the Logies, I
S1: wouldn't have believed you, but that is that is going
S1: to be a big part of our show today.
S3: If you had told me ten years ago when I
S3: was at the Logies, that I would still be talking
S3: about the Logies ten years later, I probably would have
S3: asked you to choke me out. So.
S1: Um. Well, they were on Sunday. Uh, we were covering
S1: the awards. And traditionally here on this podcast, we do
S1: a bit of analysis and have a bit of a
S1: conversation about what the awards reveal, I guess, about the
S1: state of Australian television, where things are heading. We're going
S1: to get into that later on in this episode. We're
S1: also going to dissect, I think, what I feel comfortable
S1: in calling a very incredible and heart racing second episode
S1: of Industry Season three, maybe one of my favorite episodes
S1: of television this year, in fact. Yeah, we'll lay all
S1: of that out a bit later on as well. But first,
S1: there's some news around some kind of breaking news as
S1: we're recording this on Wednesday morning, J.Lo and Ben Affleck
S1: have divorced again.
S2: The newsroom is scrambling.
S1: We're all a bit late to this recording, trying to
S1: get all our angles covered on this one. I feel
S1: like celeb separation news. Not normally the kind of thing
S1: that we discuss, but the relationship between these two sort
S1: of transcends. Just like gossip stuff. These guys have been
S1: absolute pillars of pop culture for decades now. Want to
S1: talk a little bit about, you know, the last couple
S1: of years they've had and where it all goes, but
S1: maybe before. I'm interested to get your guys take on
S1: exactly why we have, throughout the years, put so much
S1: stock in the Bennifer dynamic. Meg, do you ever do
S1: you have a take?
S2: Yeah, I mean, they're one of the foundational celebrity couples.
S2: I think they kind of almost invented the idea of
S2: the celebrity couple. They came together at the same time
S2: that tabloid media was booming, and it was them that
S2: everyone latched on to. It was I mean, I learned
S2: about their relationship before I learned about relationships.
S4: Wow, wow.
S2: They I think. I think that's true, though. You know,
S2: probably you project so much feelings on these people and
S2: in an age of like tabloid magazine covers and paparazzi shots,
S2: you knew everything about them at the time and for
S2: their relationship and having an engagement called off. It's like
S2: that was celebrity drama that fueled so much of our
S2: lives back then. And then obviously with them getting back together,
S2: that also brought so much nostalgia for people. And it
S2: was so there was this romantic idea of, you know,
S2: maybe the person you were with 20 years ago was
S2: the right person, but it was the wrong time and
S2: you couldn't help but latch on to it. So, I mean,
S2: it's sad. It's very sad to see that as a
S2: total lie. Yeah, I'm sad I they were so happy. Right.
S1: Like, well, I mean, not that happy, I guess.
S4: Well, yeah, I know that. I'm sad that it.
S3: Means we definitely won't get Jilly two now.
S4: I know. Which is sad.
S3: Yeah, it is, it is weird. Like, I kind of
S3: agree in that, you know, normally, like celebs splitting up
S3: or whatever, kind of like they come and go on
S3: the radar and that's it. But this one, I think
S3: people always were keen on. And definitely I think Meg
S3: is right in that, you know, the fact that they
S3: got back together 20 years later for our generation, you know,
S3: people in their the aging millennials, we're so obsessed with,
S3: you know, like looking back at our own youth and
S3: being nostalgic for the early 2000 that the kind of
S3: Bennifer reunion was like such a good avenue for that.
S3: And it brought back so much of, you know, their
S3: early courting. And then they had the pictures of them
S3: on the boat and it was all just like it
S3: all fit into the current narrative. But yeah, I mean,
S3: they were one of the original kind of like, you know,
S3: how we're all obsessed for a while with, like the
S3: portmanteau couples of, like, sticking them together. It was like
S3: them and Brangelina. And so like I have fond memories
S3: of them as a couple. And yeah, I'm very sad
S3: that once again, um, they've broken up.
S1: Well, it's interesting you mentioned the portmanteau because Bennifer, which
S1: is what they were dubbed, is the first celebrity portmanteau.
S3: That's what I mean. Yeah, they.
S1: Yeah, they sort of coined it. You're right. I mean.
S2: I don't think they.
S4: Did. Sorry, sorry.
S1: They, they being the tabloid media.
S4: They were famously hounded by the press, and it was one.
S1: Of the reasons I think JLo said that, you know.
S3: The ghouls running TMZ and us or whatever, they they
S3: coined it.
S1: It's funny because they were only together initially for a
S1: couple of years, like they met on the set of
S1: is it, do we say Gigli or Gigli? What do
S1: we say? Gili. Gili.
S4: Gili Gili. I thought it was Gili.
S2: I don't know, maybe this is why it performs so badly.
S2: No one knew how to talk about it.
S4: Well, they.
S1: Met on the set of that movie that we don't
S1: know how to pronounce properly, and then they sort of
S1: dated for a while. They were in the Jenny from
S1: the block.
S4: Music video, iconic together, sick video from the.
S1: Block. And then it was all kind of done and
S1: dusted after that, but probably, I guess, something about that
S1: time that you guys have both just discussed. It was
S1: the peak era of if you are in this sphere
S1: of being covered by celebrity mags, the internet was really
S1: becoming a thing. Then virality was becoming a thing. You
S1: just permeated every part of culture. So you kind of
S1: got in on the ground floor, and even years and years,
S1: years later, uh Bennifer was still this kind of talking point.
S1: And we've talked a lot on this show about our
S1: kind of desire for nostalgia or a sense of our
S1: generation in particular, and some people a little bit older,
S1: a little bit younger to hark back to a time of,
S1: you know, things felt a bit lower stakes and a
S1: bit more fun, and pop culture felt like it was
S1: at its peak. And so these guys actually getting back
S1: together was this real physical manifestation of that, more so than,
S1: you know, Netflix rebooting TV shows from that era. There's
S1: actually two people decided to get together. I think, like
S1: you said, Meg, there's a whole kind of social psychological
S1: element to it as well, where people are like, oh,
S1: that's sad. That like it didn't work out. And they
S1: went on to have other relationships and have kids and stuff,
S1: but maybe they were each other's one that got away.
S1: And maybe we, you know, if someone else has that
S1: in their life, it could work out for them. I
S1: guess the news out of this week is that two
S1: bad guys.
S4: Yeah, there's a reason why it didn't work. Is dead.
S2: I there is something. I mean, Ben Affleck seems like
S2: divorced is his natural state. Like that does feel right.
S2: Something has rebalanced. Well, he's kind of.
S3: Become the sad man of the internet. There's obviously that
S3: famous photo of him when he's like, you know, smoking
S3: and just looking really exhausted and fed up. And it's
S3: become like, you know, the meme for when you've had
S3: a bad day or whatever. It's actually a great photo.
S3: Like it's great credit to that.
S4: All that content and everything looks kind of.
S1: Looks still, looks kind of jacked in that.
S4: You know, he's still.
S3: He's like he's a good looking man. I'm all for
S3: Ben Affleck. I text the other day I was watching
S3: good Will hunting. It's a fucking great movie. It's a
S3: great it's a great movie.
S4: It's a great.
S3: Film. Um, and I think I said to you specifically,
S3: I wish I had, like, a Robin Williams figure in
S3: my life. Anyway, this is my own stuff to go through.
S3: This is.
S2: Getting very.
S4: Personal.
S1: Am I not that? Am I the. Am I the
S1: will hunting in your life?
S3: Yeah. You you actually. And the way you're dressed today,
S3: you do kind of feel like my therapist or something. Um, but. Yeah,
S3: like he and, you know, like, he's always, like all
S3: those pictures of him, like, carrying coffees and stuff, like,
S3: he he really has had a great second life on
S3: the internet as well as being a great actor, so
S3: I think anything that ever happens with him, and especially
S3: now that he has returned to his default state as
S3: like the disgruntled divorcee, this will just be great for him.
S3: Now we'll have another like year of Ben Affleck content
S3: until he, like, inevitably starts dating someone completely insane, like
S3: probably Sydney Sweeney or something. And then that'll be a
S3: whole new story.
S2: I will say that I don't know if all that
S2: content is great for him. Him getting stalked, looking depressed,
S2: having Dunkin Donuts every day.
S1: Um, should we evaluate, like the creative output in the
S1: last year or so? Because they've been pretty prolific, both
S1: of them. Uh, Ben has started up this production company
S1: with with Matt Damon, and, uh, J.Lo has this movie
S1: deal with, I think first Netflix and then Amazon. Uh,
S1: so Ben starred in air, the movie about Nike's deal
S1: with Michael Jordan. Pretty good movie. I thought, like, pretty fun,
S1: maybe a little bit underrated, if anything. He also was
S1: in a movie called hypnotic, which I did not watch.
S4: I have not seen that you guys are cross hypnotic.
S3: I have not seen that.
S1: No idea what hypnotic is.
S4: Good for him though. Great. He's out there.
S1: And he produced the recent Apple TV movie with Casey
S1: Affleck and Matt Damon, The Instigators, which I watch, which is, like,
S1: not great. It's not terrible. It's sort of like a
S1: heist film, but it's his classic. You know, if this
S1: movie came out ten years ago, it would have been
S1: a really good movie. Matt Damon and Casey Affleck would
S1: have been in a good movie, but now Apple just
S1: pays everyone a bunch of money to make something. So
S1: you see this title card that is like it's Casey
S1: Affleck and Matt Damon, produced by Ben Affleck, and it's
S1: kind of a heist. You want to watch it and
S1: you do. And it's pretty, pretty, pretty lame.
S3: That felt like a movie where, like in the group chat,
S3: they were like, hey, we haven't caught up in ages.
S4: Like, should we.
S3: Should we make that dumb idea we've been talking about?
S3: Apple boys.
S4: Are back. The boys.
S1: Are back. Um, he's just finished filming The Accountant two.
S1: I'm not across the accountant universe. You guys, the accountant heads.
S2: I am not.
S3: Well, the accountant two is actually crucial to the narrative
S3: of the Bennifer demise. Because is it really? Well, yes,
S3: because when J.Lo was chairing the Met Gala this year,
S3: and that was kind of one of the big moments
S3: where people were like, ooh, what's going on? Because Ben
S3: Affleck didn't go and it's obviously a big deal. You know,
S3: she was like chairing the Met Gala, but his excuse was,
S3: oh no, I'm filming The Accountant two. I definitely can't
S3: get on a plane and come back to support you.
S3: My beautiful wife, who I love, um, because I'm filming
S3: this really important movie, The Accountant two. And everyone was like, oh,
S3: that's not good enough.
S1: Not true. That's not.
S3: True. Yeah. If you were in like, you know, if
S3: you were in like the puppy dog honeymoon phase of
S3: your relationship, you could be filming fucking good Will hunting
S3: two and you would come back. So yeah, that was
S3: kind of like, okay, that's not really. You know, we
S3: don't really buy that. I have seen the first accountant
S3: and I'm surprised they're making a second one, but yeah.
S1: Also where were they filming? It's an American movie, right?
S3: Yeah. I think he was overseas though.
S1: Oh I see oh, this is interesting. Ben Affleck stars
S1: as Christian Wolff, an autistic Accountant who launders money for
S1: some of the most dangerous criminals in the world. Jon
S1: Bernthal is Christian's brother. He operates a security car. J.K.
S1: Simmons is in this movie. I like all of those people.
S1: I think I've got to watch The Accountant movies. As
S1: for J.Lo, during their marriage, she made a shotgun wedding,
S1: which I think had like a really great trailer. If
S1: you guys remember this, where it's like, starts like as
S1: a fun rom com.
S5: You got your gift. It's your something borrowed brings you
S5: good luck. Except for Uncle Greg, who ended up decapitated
S5: on that forklift. But that's not the knives fault.
S6: Oh.
S1: And then next minute JLo's got a shotgun and is
S1: like trying to shoot kidnappers and assassins.
S7: Or pirates outside. And they took everybody hostage.
S1: The movie was not very good, I would say.
S2: I didn't mind, like. I mean, it's a great trash movie.
S2: You know, if you sit down and it's a streaming
S2: film and you've had a couple drinks on a Friday
S2: night with some friends, it's fun.
S4: Yeah, that's fair, that's fair.
S1: It's better than I didn't. I really didn't like that.
S1: George Clooney, Julia Roberts. Ticket to.
S3: Paradise.
S1: Ticket to Paradise on an island. But it's sort of
S1: in that.
S4: Just holding that against it. No, no, no.
S1: I'm just saying it's in that same sort of category.
S1: I guess it's like I didn't watch it. But if
S1: you're kind of hungover on a Sunday or you're bored or.
S3: Like, you know how I famously compare every movie to
S3: Ticket to Paradise? Well.
S4: It just angers me so much.
S1: Well, I'm mad because people who hate anyone but you
S1: and therefore are really mad at me for saying it's
S1: a good movie. All seem to love Ticket to Paradise
S1: and I just don't understand that to me.
S4: No, they're in the same universe for sure.
S1: To me, they're inverse. One is good and one is bad,
S1: and it's not the one everyone thinks that's. That's my
S1: plug again for anyone but you. Nearly 12 months on
S1: from the movie's release, um, she also starred in The Mother,
S1: which I have not seen.
S2: I've never even heard of that.
S1: Never heard of that.
S4: I feel like Shotgun.
S2: Wedding was probably the highlight of what she's been up to.
S3: Well, and then there was she's obviously like one of
S3: those Netflix deals. So she did Atlas as well, I think,
S3: you know, like she's done all a bunch of like
S3: kind of really forgettable films. But the moment again where
S3: she I feel like she people were like, oh, this
S3: is another crazy JLo thing was the weird like documentary
S3: that Ben Affleck produced.
S1: Yeah, this is me now, that was sort of inspired
S1: by her reunion with Ben.
S8: I know what they say about me. About hopeless romantics
S8: that we're weak but I'm not weak.
S1: And all of her celebrity friends played kind of gods
S1: and masters of the universe. It was. It was strange.
S1: I actually respected the swing that movie took. It was
S1: sort of crazy, but it was just JLo being like,
S1: I want to make some kind of fun, arty, long
S1: music video type thing. Good on it. And it's her.
S2: Vibe, I guess. Like, she's always been pretty out there and, like,
S2: pretty cringe in many ways. And she's just owning it.
S1: But you would say that 1234567, eight projects between the
S1: two of them over the course of their second marriage,
S1: maybe like one of them, air is good and worth recommending,
S1: but maybe that's fine because obviously the relationship was about
S1: them and not about making great content. So maybe it's
S1: actually good that they made bad stuff because they were
S1: really prioritising spending time with each other and trying to
S1: make it work.
S4: Except.
S2: At the Met Gala, I guess, except the.
S4: Met Gala.
S3: I know, but then we do want like, I don't know,
S3: is it okay for or can we be happy for
S3: two celebrities to be in love if it impacts their collective?
S1: Yeah, ultimately, I care more about these people as creatives
S1: who make stuff I want to consume, I kind of
S1: don't really care about their personal happiness. Like, you're an artist.
S1: Your job is to destroy your life and your livelihood,
S1: to make stuff for us to watch and discuss, right?
S1: That's how it works.
S3: Yeah, I'm kind of the same. Like, shout out.
S4: To all the artists listening.
S3: Yeah, like, I mean, if it means Ben Affleck is sad,
S3: but we get another Argo. I'm okay with.
S4: That.
S1: Crazy that Ben Affleck has a best director Oscar, that is.
S4: He's actually.
S3: A talented guy like.
S1: Martin Scorsese. He doesn't know.
S3: He's he's under I would say he's actually underrated because
S3: he's done everything. He's like, well, he's I think Ben.
S1: Affleck is a great actor and a great writer and
S1: a great director. I completely agree with you.
S3: And also but the thing I like about it is,
S3: even though he does all have all those things and
S3: he's like, but he'll also be like, I'm going to
S3: be Batman. And and like, the worst ever Batman in
S3: the worst ever Batman films. Like, he's just.
S4: Yeah.
S1: We should just do a special Ben Affleck episode. Man,
S1: his career is crazy. He's is crazy.
S3: It is. It is so crazy.
S1: Do one of those shameless, you know, bonus episodes. And
S1: we're just sort of go back and unpack. Shout out
S1: shameless as usual. Other fun TV news. Michaela Coel, the
S1: creative mind behind I May Destroy You, which was one
S1: of my favorite shows of the past few years, has
S1: finally announced her new project, you guys. Fans of I
S1: May Destroy You remember that show?
S2: Yeah, yeah, it destroyed me for sure.
S1: It was pretty affecting. It was really, really amazing television,
S1: but very intense. Um, her new show is called First
S1: Day on Earth, and the official synopsis is, uh, British
S1: novelist Henry, played by Michaela Coel, is stuck, works dried up,
S1: her relationships going nowhere. So when she's offered a job
S1: on a film in Ghana, her parents homeland, where her
S1: estranged father lives, she can't resist the chance to reconnect
S1: with him and the country of her heritage. It's an
S1: executive produced by succession creator Jesse Armstrong and co-produced by
S1: HBO with an A24 credit in there as well. I
S1: feel like this is designed in a lab for people
S1: like us. Uh, the vibes are high on this one.
S3: Yeah, I know. I mean, yeah, every with each reveal,
S3: I was like, oh, well, the algorithms really got me
S3: this time.
S1: You're the man with the with the brain meme exploding. Yeah.
S3: Exactly. Um, it's it's funny because, like, I've been really,
S3: I think everyone who, you know, loved succession has been
S3: waiting to see what Jesse Armstrong would do next, and
S3: I kind of figured he wouldn't. It wasn't like he
S3: was going to go in and like, you know, be
S3: a show runner on another show and create another series.
S3: So I guess something like this makes sense. But yeah,
S3: I mean, it has all the elements to be great,
S3: which means it'll probably end up being awful, but I
S3: can't wait to watch it.
S4: That's the hard.
S2: Thing because it's just so much hype behind her now.
S2: And like, that's a great thing. And it means she's
S2: able to take on projects that are cool and original
S2: and interesting and devote time to doing it. But the
S2: pressure that must come with that, I kind of want
S2: to just zone out completely of any news about this.
S2: I don't even want to watch trailers and just go
S2: in fresh because it's just too much.
S1: Yeah, I think that's that's a really good point. I mean,
S1: I think what is good is that I May Destroy
S1: You was so good and received so much critical acclaim.
S1: I'm sure Michaela Cole was offered enormous sums of money
S1: to just follow something up straight away. And we've talked
S1: about this before, that it's just generally never quite as good.
S1: That sophomore thing where you spent so long writing the
S1: project you really believe in, you pour your heart and
S1: soul into it, and then you do your follow up,
S1: which you kind of scramble to do this doesn't start
S1: filming until next year, so it probably isn't going to
S1: come out for maybe another 18 months. 24 months. That's
S1: like six years between I May Destroy You and this
S1: new show. I think it's great that she's actually even
S1: though I'm sort of would love another great show from her.
S1: It's cool that she's just taking her time and is like,
S1: I want to find the right project. I want to
S1: take my time to write stuff. So I think there
S1: are good indications here. So looking forward to that one.
S2: How devastating do you think it's going to be? Because
S2: she's a she's really funny as well obviously.
S4: I mean this.
S1: This were now moving into like, you know, parent issues, uh,
S1: sort of third culture kid disconnected from their homeland, the colonial.
S4: History.
S1: This one's going to hit, uh, the struggles in the
S1: media industry. This is going to have, um, a lot
S1: of emotional resonance. All right. Time to talk about the Logies.
S1: As I mentioned, Thomas and I covered the event on Sunday.
S1: The ceremony went for five hours. It's crazy to me
S1: that the lodges are longer than the Oscars.
S2: Why is that? Very genuinely like what's going on?
S1: We're going to talk about that. We're going to talk
S1: about that because there are definitely some suggestions I've got
S1: for edits that they could make. Thomas was there even longer.
S1: He was doing the red carpet for a few hours before.
S2: I kept tuning in to the live blogs and everything.
S2: You're still going? It's like midnight. Trapped in the media room.
S3: It got increasingly more like frantic and unhinged. The posts,
S3: I think. But yeah.
S1: Um. What? I mean, maybe we'll start with this. Thomas.
S1: Why don't you give us a bit of a vibe check?
S1: How was the night? How did it play out for you?
S1: And what sort of temperature check did you get on
S1: the state of Australian television?
S3: Yeah, it was. It was a strange one. I thought
S3: it was the second year that it's kind of relocated
S3: to Sydney. And I think in a weird way, where
S3: the Logies are held has a kind of flow on effect. Um, the.
S3: Was that the darling in Sydney? Like the hotel and
S3: pretty much from the get go, you know, you get
S3: into the red carpet at like 330. All the stars
S3: walk down and that's all filmed and stuff. And then
S3: the broadcast doesn't start until later, but pretty, pretty quickly.
S3: I was like, okay, there's a lot less media here
S3: this year. Um, like, you know, you all kind of
S3: get shuffled into these little pens and stuff, and it
S3: felt like it felt like to me, anyway, that there
S3: was a lot less media. And at the same time,
S3: they felt like there was just less people, like less
S3: celebrities walking the carpet. And I think that is like
S3: a purposeful thing. The room that they held it in
S3: Sydney is smaller. So you don't have like, you know,
S3: in years gone by, you have the, you know, the
S3: reality stars and often they're the people that kind of
S3: make a bit of buzz on the carpet because they
S3: wear something outrageous, they don't really care. And that creates
S3: like a flow on effect. Whereas this year that's not
S3: not really the case. They're inviting they are inviting less
S3: people to the Logies each year. So I guess that
S3: makes it feel different. And then once you kind of
S3: get in there like, you know, as you said, it
S3: was that was like one of the longest Logies in years.
S3: It was even longer than last year's, which ran like
S3: four hours, 28 minutes. Um, so that's like pretty crazy,
S3: I think. You know, it's the first year that they've
S3: changed the categories. So everyone I think thought it was
S3: going to be shorter because rather than having the most
S3: popular and most outstanding categories, they all were condensed into best.
S3: So everyone thought it was going to be a bit
S3: more tight this year. And in fact it like bled out.
S3: So I think it was over five hours by the
S3: time it eventually, you know, the gold was given out
S3: at the end of the night, which is an incredibly
S3: long broadcast. But generally I think, and we'll get into this,
S3: the vibe that I took away and that lots of
S3: people were talking about in the media room and as we,
S3: you know, walk to get our respective Ubers at 2 a.m.
S3: or whatever was that, it definitely felt like a changing
S3: of the guard. Um, you know, the Logies are now
S3: being broadcast on seven, but they're always broadcast on basically
S3: one of the three main commercial networks in Australia, seven,
S3: 9 or 10. It's it kind of goes between 9
S3: and 7. But it felt like even though the Logies
S3: are historically a celebration of free to air TV and,
S3: you know, all the stars, they're free to air faces
S3: and the presenters are, you know, different faces from the
S3: networks It felt like the big thing that everyone cared
S3: about this year was like Boy Swallows universe and the
S3: success of streaming shows and the, you know, Lost Flowers
S3: of Alice Hart and and obviously the huge success of
S3: Boy Swallows Universe. And that just felt like people were like, okay,
S3: it's weird now that we even though the lodges have
S3: a home on free to air and that's what their
S3: history is all about, really. That's where the focus is now.
S3: And and yeah, to me it definitely felt like jarring
S3: in the way that the relevancy of free to air
S3: is probably at its absolute lowest. And yet we still
S3: have these awards that kind of champion that and but
S3: they almost struggling to contain the excitement around streaming.
S1: How good to have someone who's been going to the
S1: lodges for a decade to provide us that level of analysis,
S1: I will say I'm really I'm really glad you sort
S1: of covered both the mechanics of of the actual ceremony
S1: and how all that works. I think that is an
S1: interesting conversation. And the more interesting, I guess, clues we're
S1: getting about where TV is going in Australia. Meg, you
S1: asked the question, you know, why does it go for
S1: so long? It is fascinating that there are less categories
S1: than ever before, but it went on for longer. And
S1: I mean, the ratings are pretty high this year. I
S1: think it was actually one of the highest ratings since 2016.
S1: So at certain points, a lot of people did pay attention.
S1: But I think still, there's no reason for these ceremonies
S1: to be longer than something like the Oscars. And I
S1: think ultimately it's kind of self-indulgence on the part of
S1: people in the industry in putting together the awards and
S1: not really thinking about the audience. I think one example
S1: of that is Rebecca Gibney was inducted into the Hall
S1: of Fame. Like, Good on Rebecca Gibney. We all love
S1: Rebecca Gibney. Deserving entry into the Hall of Fame, the
S1: the entire segment that was about her being inducted, which
S1: included speeches from her colleagues, included like a clips reel included.
S1: Her son speaking about her multiple times included. Her giving
S1: a speech went for nearly 25 minutes. That's like more
S1: than 10% of the whole time of these awards. It
S1: just doesn't need to happen. Like that. And then there's
S1: the classic thing of you have 30s to give a speech.
S1: The music plays you off. The music didn't really play
S1: anyone off this year, but people gave speeches that went
S1: on for a long time. Multiple people gave speeches, and
S1: it's sometimes it's nice to see it, but I think
S1: if ultimately it all just builds up where you're getting
S1: the Gold Logie announced after midnight on a Sunday. Like,
S1: who's watching that? Who is that for? How is that
S1: helping promote Australian TV? You also have there's always some
S1: musical performances, right? This time around it was James Bay
S1: was the big international UK artist. He had like a
S1: big hit ten years ago. Good on him. He didn't
S1: get wheeled out to like 1130. It's like, what's the
S1: point of having a huge international star if that's obviously
S1: being done, to try to get like families to watch
S1: and tune into the Logies? No one's watching by 1130.
S1: So it's a couple of weird decisions like that that
S1: don't make sense to me.
S2: Yeah, and it is a shame because I mean, as
S2: you said, Thomas, free to air television is getting watched
S2: less and less every year. And it needs a big boost.
S2: And I mean Australian shows on streaming networks need a
S2: boost as well. As much as they're getting a better
S2: audience than free to air, they're still lost in a
S2: sea of content where you don't even know it's Australian.
S2: Sometimes it's not foregrounded in certain ways, and so events
S2: like the Logies actually have this great opportunity to focus
S2: attention on what Australia has produced over the past year.
S2: What's the best show that we have made? Who are
S2: the upcoming talents? But if it's just going to be
S2: this long, bloated thing that people aren't even watching or
S2: aware of, then what is the point? Is it just
S2: for the people inside the room? And if so, I mean,
S2: it's not going to have much of an ongoing impact.
S1: I think that's a really good point. I think ultimately
S1: that was kind of the conclusion I took away as well,
S1: that most of this ceremony is for people inside the
S1: room and people in the industry. When the whole point
S1: of a televised event is that it's this opportunity to
S1: showcase a bunch of great Australian stuff that people might
S1: not be across and celebrate it. I want to talk
S1: a bit about the winners and sort of what that reveals. Thomas,
S1: you you made the point that it felt like Uh,
S1: significant kind of pivot that, you know, this is the
S1: beginning of the era where the streamers, you know, are
S1: really part of it. You know, Netflix won the most awards,
S1: largely not exclusively, thanks to Boy Swallows Universe. I'm interested
S1: in talking about that for a second, because we discussed
S1: before the awards the way that the voting and judging
S1: process had shifted. So now it's a combination of a
S1: panel of judges voting, public votes and audience data. And
S1: I find it really interesting that even though there were
S1: a lot of shows from streamers that were nominated, the
S1: only actual streamer that won any awards was Netflix, which
S1: is far and away the biggest streaming platform in this country.
S1: And I wonder whether an inadvertent result of that change
S1: is it's basically impossible for a show on, like Paramount+
S1: or Amazon Prime to win an award when they're up
S1: against Netflix, because 20% of the award is based on
S1: your viewership data. And if a show like Boy Swallows
S1: Universe and Heartbreak High, those shows get millions and millions
S1: of viewers. There might be a better show on a
S1: smaller streamer, but it just gets totally blasted out. Was
S1: there any kind of conversation around the total dominance of
S1: Netflix this year?
S3: No, I think I think you raise a good point,
S3: but I think because it's the first year that the
S3: change has come in that that will probably be an
S3: increasingly big talking point, like as the years go by,
S3: if we keep going down this road where, you know,
S3: whatever Netflix, Australian commissions keep cleaning up the Logies, then
S3: there will probably have to be a conversation around, well, okay,
S3: like you've given 20% weighting of the best category to
S3: audience data. And Netflix has, you know, five times the
S3: amount of subscribers, as Disney does in Australia or Paramount+
S3: or binge or whatever. They'll probably have to look at that.
S3: But yeah, I think, you know, this year there wasn't
S3: that didn't seem to be a thing people were talking about.
S3: People were just like, wow, Netflix is killing it with
S3: Boy Swallows Universe. And that show was a huge success.
S3: I was kind of surprised that The Lost Flowers of
S3: Alice Hart didn't win more. Or win anything, I think because, like,
S3: you know, that show really obviously Sigourney Weaver, you know,
S3: was the lead. She was nominated but didn't win. But
S3: you know, like that got really good reviews.
S1: I imagine beating Sigourney Weaver at the Logies is pretty
S1: stoked I don't know.
S3: Yes, I think Sam Pang kind of mentioned, you know,
S3: she'd won all these other awards and like, yeah, she
S3: must be really excited to get her Logie. But I
S3: think it was just a really funny night because it
S3: kind of revealed the glaring issue in Australian TV that
S3: we already kind of know. But like free to air
S3: networks just do not invest in local drama. And local
S3: drama is and drama generally is what most people watch.
S3: So even though, you know, like there's still a big
S3: audience for free to air and, you know, it's still
S3: a pretty significant audience for reality TV shows and stuff like,
S3: you know, comedy, entertainment and the Bruins and hard quizzes
S3: and stuff. But the way people build relationships, I think,
S3: with actors who they watch on series, is very different
S3: to the relationship you have with a reality contestant. And
S3: so we live in a time where free to air
S3: networks basically only put to their resources into reality shows
S3: because they're cheap and they rate well enough. But then
S3: you get to a night like the Logies, and the
S3: chasm is so obvious, because it's like all the drama
S3: that people watch and the, you know, the, the identities
S3: that they have a real relationship with are coming from streamers. So, like,
S3: you saw it with the way everyone embraced Felix Cameron or, um,
S3: you know, like the again, like Lost Flowers of Alice Hart.
S3: And then because like, it's such a common complaint for
S3: people to be like, oh, the Logies are irrelevant, it's
S3: because they tune in and they just see these people.
S3: They don't really watch because not everyone really watches reality TV.
S3: And so yeah, that for me was the biggest takeaway.
S3: It was like, wow, this refusal kind of from like seven,
S3: nine and ten to properly invest in local drama is
S3: becoming so obvious on awards night. And then you have
S3: these two like it's like there's two different things going
S3: on in awards night. It's like the free to air
S3: commercial networks clapping themselves on the back for the stuff
S3: they do and then having to acknowledge that, yeah, okay,
S3: most people in the country are actually watching streaming and,
S3: you know the millions of people that have watched Boy
S3: Swallows universe?
S1: Yeah, I think no commercial free to air network won
S1: a single acting category this time around across comedy and drama.
S1: And to add to that excellent point you made about drama.
S1: I think the same applies to children's television. The out
S1: of the nominees this year, five of the six were
S1: from the ABC and the. And the sixth is Eddie's
S1: Little Homies, which is a co-pro between NITV, a publicly
S1: funded broadcaster, and Netflix. This is not good. This is
S1: really not good. It's not a great result for Australian television.
S2: Yeah, but I mean, do we see that changing in
S2: the current environment? I don't think these commercial networks have
S2: any money to invest in scripted drama or comedy. I mean,
S2: it takes a lot more. That's why they invest in
S2: panel shows and things that are quite easy and quick
S2: to produce. Um, with the state of the way things
S2: are right now, I don't see it changing. I think
S2: it will just be a total streaming takeover eventually.
S1: Yeah. And historically, a big part of the reason why
S1: networks have invested in it is because there were government
S1: rules that were more stringent than they are now to
S1: force them to do it. I mean, I would love
S1: to live in a world where after the logis, I
S1: don't know, the government sits down and networks it down
S1: and say, cool, what does this like the conversation we're having? Like,
S1: what does this tell us about where things are going?
S1: What do we need to do? And you know, maybe
S1: I'm naive. I have no idea what is going on
S1: in the corridors of power in Canberra. Perhaps that conversation
S1: is happening, but the fact that we've been talking about
S1: these logis on this podcast now for like three years,
S1: and we just keep having a very similar discussion, suggests
S1: that things are still a little bit broken.
S2: It's been a big talking point with children's TV for
S2: a long time, and there's a lot of lobbying going
S2: on in that space because, I mean, a place like
S2: channel ten used to make a lot of children's TV,
S2: and it's crazy that you see a success like Bluey,
S2: like literally the biggest show in the world practically. It's
S2: up there with literally not even just children's content. The
S2: most popular show in the world.
S4: Absolutely.
S2: How can the commercial networks not justify being part of that?
S2: It's not even that expensive to produce, really. You just
S2: need to invest in a good creative team who can
S2: back their work and look at how far it's come in.
S2: Just a few years. Really?
S1: Yeah. And if you have a success like that, that
S1: can then subsidize so much other stuff, you make 100%.
S2: Yeah.
S1: Um, we should talk about the Gold Logie. Thomas, this
S1: was a really exciting result.
S4: For.
S1: You. Your good friend, Larry Emdur.
S3: Yeah. Uh, yeah. Larry. Happy for Larry. We worked together
S3: a few years ago at the morning show. Uh, and
S3: I think, again, it was kind of funny like that,
S3: sensing the general vibe from the organization on the night
S3: was very much like, again, this is only my opinion.
S3: It seemed like they were like, oh, God, we really
S3: need Larry to win, because it was basically between him
S3: and Robert Irwin. And of course, there were lots of
S3: jokes that Robert Irwin's been on TV for two minutes.
S3: He's only 19 or 20 or whatever he is. And so,
S3: like for him to have, if he had edged out
S3: Larry Emdur, who is a, you know, TV veteran, he's
S3: hosted a million shows, he's been on TV for 40 years,
S3: would have been a kind of uphill battle for the
S3: Logies to climb in terms of defending itself. So I
S3: think everyone was happy for Larry, um, to win. And,
S3: you know, he gave a funny speech he committed to
S3: his on air tattoo.
S9: I just remembered, um, I did say that if I
S9: won this during the week, did I? I did say
S9: I was so convinced that I wasn't going to win this,
S9: that I said that if I did win it, I
S9: would have all the nominees initials tattooed on my ass
S9: live tomorrow morning. So.
S3: But yeah. But again, like, that's what I think was
S3: so funny in that, you know, that was the Gold
S3: Logie is obviously like the big award, the most popular
S3: personality on Australian TV. That is not like these new categories.
S3: You know, it's exclusive public voting. So seven, who is
S3: the new broadcast partner was able to lobby massively for
S3: Larry and they did and he won. And he deserves it.
S3: That's like no issue for me. But I just thought
S3: it was interesting that even though that's the big, you know,
S3: moment of the night, it is the gold. It felt
S3: like to me the next day at least, people that
S3: I was speaking to and stuff I was reading, it
S3: was really all about Boy Swallows universe and the cute
S3: moments from that and Felix Cameron really, you know, like
S3: heartfelt and nice acceptance speeches and Trent Dalton and like,
S3: it just felt like the, you know, the kind of
S3: soul of the logis. But then the actual what people
S3: wanted to talk about no longer marry up.
S1: That's a really good point. I think a really smart observation.
S1: I think I think you're right. I feel like the
S1: gold now feels a little bit out of step with
S1: what else is going on. I feel like it's quite
S1: different to the 90s and 2000 when, you know, when
S1: Lisa McCune was winning, it was because that show was
S1: winning and Blue Heelers was winning. Like all the gold
S1: winners tended to come out of extremely popular commercial drama
S1: or sort of comedy and lifestyle sort of shows.
S3: And it just still feels like it is a it
S3: is a strange award when you really think about it. Like,
S3: you know, at the Oscars, like we get to the
S3: end of the night, it's like, who's going to win
S3: Best Picture and the Logies? It's like the Gold Logie
S3: who out of a field that includes actors and presenters
S3: and morning show hosts and reality show hosts, like all
S3: these people who have nothing to do with each other,
S3: who is going to be voted the best of this thing.
S3: And it doesn't really. It's just odd. I think in
S3: 2024 to have like the big award being so mixed
S3: and confused, like, yeah.
S1: And acting and actors are like, I think Asher Keddie
S1: was the only actor and she was.
S3: Like the last actress to win it. And that was
S3: like 2013, I think. Yeah.
S1: Wow. How interesting.
S2: It's strange. What that what that metric is in the
S2: Gold Logie race. Because when you accept actors and morning
S2: show presenters, is it the best acting performance? Is it
S2: the most likable person off screen? Like what? How are
S2: we judging this? Just vibes.
S3: Yeah, well that's the thing. Like for Asher Keddie this year, like,
S3: technically she was nominated for strife that um, show on
S3: binge about, you know, like the Mia Freedman show and
S3: which has just been greenlit for second season. Um, but like,
S3: you know, it basically it's really like, oh, Asher Keddie
S3: is really popular. And she was on a show this
S3: year and she's so popular. So like, she's going to
S3: be nominated for gold. Yeah, it's a very it is
S3: it is a metric, I think, that struggles increasingly to
S3: keep up with like 2024. And, you know, what constitutes
S3: award ceremonies and what they should be rewarding.
S1: Uh, we didn't mention Sam Pang. He hosted again. I
S1: feel like he's pretty comfortable in that role. He's kind
S1: of like, um, you know, Ricky Gervais doing the Golden
S1: Globes all the time. It sort of feels like that's
S1: his gig forever, I don't think.
S2: I wonder how he feels about that comparison.
S4: Yeah, but what did.
S3: You guys think? Because I felt like in the room,
S3: last year's opening monologue hit way harder.
S1: I think you're right. I think it was. He was
S1: a breath of fresh air and his gags were a
S1: bit sharper. I think he did a good job, but
S1: he seemed a little bit like half hearted, if I'm honest.
S1: Like maybe a little bit flat. He's like, I'm going
S1: to make these jokes. I know they're land, but I
S1: don't feel as excited about this as I did last time.
S1: Maybe that's partly because the room's a bit smaller. It's
S1: harder to vibe off it. I can't really think of
S1: anyone who'd be better than him. I mean, it's funny,
S1: Tony Armstrong could probably do a good job. I'd say.
S1: It'd be fun to maybe have co-hosts the Oscars and
S1: Emmys and stuff. Kind of do that. But Pang's pretty
S1: good at it, so I'm happy for.
S4: Him to keep going. I think he's good.
S3: Yeah. No, I think so too. I think it's a
S3: tough gig. And I mean, like, there was lots of
S3: material for him to work with, and I feel like
S3: he touched on all of the, you know, respective scandals
S3: for each network pretty smartly. But yeah, all in all,
S3: I think, you know, it's like if he can just
S3: get the ceremony down to like 2.5 hours, everyone literally,
S3: if they can get it down to under three hours,
S3: I think people would be like amazing. Like our bar
S3: is so low for the Logies.
S1: And here's the other thing, right? The ratings were big,
S1: but the ratings are also a measure of your average
S1: performance across the five hours. So if they get it
S1: down to three hours, the ratings actually go up on paper,
S1: which makes the ceremony look like a bigger success and
S1: gets people more excited about it.
S4: It makes people.
S2: More likely to watch it as well because, I mean, truly,
S2: people are just tuning out and waiting for the TikTok
S2: clips the next morning, right?
S1: Exactly, exactly. I mean, we pitched this every year, Thomas,
S1: but just call us.
S3: I know I've been I've been waiting to write the
S3: Logies for ten years, so.
S1: Yeah, I mean, there's there's fewer people in this country
S1: who have as much knowledge of the Logies and care
S1: as much about them, and lots of experience in producing
S1: television and just understanding what makes good content as you. Thomas.
S1: So I'm.
S4: Thomas Mitchell.
S2: For the gold.
S4: Yeah.
S2: Why not? How do I.
S1: Get. All right. Let's talk about industry.
S10: So I'm sure you've all been programmed to expect something radical.
S10: But what I have here for you today, it really
S10: isn't you at all. Join us in the ground floor
S10: of what is going to be a spectacular journey. Not
S10: my words.
S1: Well, I said it last week, but like, I think
S1: without a doubt, fast becoming my favourite show of the year.
S1: Episode two. I mean, this is fucking sick television This
S1: show is wild. We didn't think we wanted a character
S1: played by Kit Harington who is into water sports, which
S1: is like revealed in this episode. Uh.
S3: And of course, by that you mean he likes being
S3: pissed on?
S1: Correct? Correct. Just want to.
S3: Be explicit in. Yeah.
S1: Um, that's that's my sizzle at the top of this.
S1: For people who still haven't watched the show, that is
S1: what you're getting from industry season three. I mean, the
S1: way that this episode in particular drops you in the
S1: middle of just this real high octane, energetic, frenetic situation
S1: that I don't really understand what's going on. But I
S1: know that it's important and it's happening at a very
S1: high pace. It doesn't relent throughout. There's so many different
S1: fascinating plots, characters, situations that that run over the course
S1: of the 50 minutes of the show. They all fit
S1: together really well. You feel exhilarated as you're watching it,
S1: and you can't wait for the next episode. It's just
S1: really bloody excellent, masterful television. What did you think about
S1: this app?
S3: This is probably one of the best episodes of TV
S3: I've seen in a very long time. Also, you know,
S3: I haven't felt stress like this since the kind of
S3: peak of succession. I would say, um, the way like, yeah,
S3: the way the episode begins with, you know, they're about
S3: to take this company public, but there's a blackout. And
S3: like you said, there's no context. There's no, like, gently, gently.
S3: You're just like throwing into it. Um, I watched episode
S3: two with maybe what I would describe as, like, a
S3: gentle hangover. And it was a fucking awful idea because
S3: it's so stressful, man, and really stressful. Really stressful. It's
S3: really funny because I feel like this season particularly, they've.
S3: Everything is a little bit different. Even the way they're shooting,
S3: it looks a bit grittier and everyone looks exhausted. Like Yasmin,
S3: played by Marissa Abella. They are doing such a good job.
S3: On making her look like she's just fucking fed up.
S3: Like she just she's always just looks. She's such a,
S3: you know, she's a very good looking person. She they
S3: make her look so haggard and stuff, and everyone generally
S3: just looks like they're about to, like, have a mental breakdown.
S1: They look like how everyone I know feels like in
S1: the world.
S4: Just like not taking that personally. Geez.
S1: Well, just like this. This sort of like within three years,
S1: they've crunched these stories about these people who started in
S1: this industry wide eyed, excited, like ready to go, and
S1: then just seeing the world the way that capitalism operates,
S1: the way that workplaces operate, the way the way that
S1: Covid and life after Covid and relationships and the things
S1: you turn to like drugs and alcohol to manage all
S1: that stuff just squeezes you dry is so interesting. Like,
S1: there are so many things happening in this show.
S3: And it is true because like, you know, they started
S3: out as like these fresh faced graduates and because I,
S3: you know, I said last week, I haven't I've been
S3: binging this show in order to like catch up to
S3: season three. So I feel so I've got like I
S3: feel carsick almost from going through like only five days ago.
S3: They were like, oh my God, these guys are beautiful
S3: and youthful and all their, you know, skin is perfect
S3: and glowing and dewy. And then they're having fun nights out.
S3: And I could do that too And then like five
S3: days later, I binge three seasons. I'm like, oh my God,
S3: these guys are so fucked up. And they've all got
S3: drug issues and daddy issues and like, that's kind.
S4: Of surprising.
S2: So I'm only like four episodes into the first season,
S2: and they already seem kind of fucked up to me.
S2: So I can't wait to see how things go downhill.
S4: Oh yeah. But it's always like.
S3: Even when I feel like in the early seasons when
S3: they're like kind of, you know, fucked up or like
S3: having these massive benders and then like, changing their shirt
S3: in the cubicle and going into work. It was never
S3: felt like kind of heavy or sinister. It always felt
S3: a bit like, oh, you know, like, you know, this
S3: is crazy young people being crazy and young. And now
S3: it's like, you know, even when they have these big benders,
S3: it's never like with a fun lens. It's like something
S3: they're escaping these, you know, incredible issues and their stressful
S3: job and all of their weird kind of like dynamics.
S3: And they're all none of them. There's no healthy relationship
S3: in this show.
S1: There are two structural things this show does really well
S1: that I wanted to discuss because I think, I mean,
S1: it seems effortless, but it's such a contrast to so
S1: many other shows, and I think it's why it feels
S1: so good and so exciting and so different. I mean,
S1: one of them we touched on this last week, it's
S1: the way that the show really has just created a
S1: cast of characters and a world, and uses that as
S1: a universe to talk about so many different things. Like
S1: we are now in this season, getting really interesting conversations
S1: about media and the links between big business and media,
S1: and who pulls the strings and how news stories can
S1: be created and just disappeared. Because you happen to meet
S1: the right person who you do a favor for. That's fascinating.
S1: That's sort of very reminiscent of where we got to
S1: with with succession as well. There's this ongoing theme in
S1: this season about the contradictions around ethical investing. You've got
S1: these people who are saying that they're going to use
S1: the force of the economy and capitalism and investment banking
S1: to make the world a better place, and they just
S1: keep running up against the reality of what that actually
S1: means again and again. There's this ongoing throughline throughout the show, really,
S1: all three seasons about sexual assault and not just the
S1: human ramifications of being a victim of sexual assault. But
S1: the way that structures and organizations deal with it, and
S1: who covers it for who and what consequences are. It's
S1: really interesting stuff to do with a show that's ostensibly
S1: about a bunch of young people who like to party
S1: and trade shares at a high pace. And the other thing,
S1: structurally that's really interesting is we're going week to week,
S1: which is amazing, but kind of like the last season
S1: of succession. We're seeing it happen in real time, like
S1: every episode so far has been a day. So when
S1: you pick up again at episode two and we know
S1: that episode one kind of ended with, uh, Eric and
S1: Yasmin coming in after their big coke bender, and you're
S1: seeing the consequences of it the next week where she's, like,
S1: spinning out. She's about to throw up. He still hasn't
S1: tucked his shirt in. And it it's so interesting using
S1: that kind of frame, that time space to help us
S1: to the point you were making. Thomas see the darkness,
S1: the grimness of you actually feel what it's like to
S1: be dealing with an IPO when you've been up all
S1: night doing cocaine with your boss. And I don't think
S1: there's any repentance coming. I don't think there's any salvation
S1: for these people. It just seems like they have made
S1: a lot of bad decisions. They've betrayed a lot of
S1: their friends. There's not much left other than their ability
S1: to deliver profit for their bosses. And if they can't
S1: do that, what do they have? And that's a fascinating
S1: thing to explore, I think.
S3: Yeah. And it's funny because they kind of have this,
S3: you know, they give you the alternate, I guess, reality
S3: in someone like Kenny, his character, who has such a
S3: big journey through the show. You know, when we first
S3: meet Kenny, he's all the worst things you hear about
S3: this industry. He's sexist, he's an alcoholic. He is abusive.
S3: You know, he abuses his privilege and is just awful
S3: to be around. And then his character, I feel like,
S3: has such an interesting journey in that he gets sober
S3: and becomes like a really nice, protective guy. And then,
S3: you know, like, spoiler alert, he gets ousted and his
S3: career is over because he doesn't he can no longer
S3: play that game. And yeah I feel like it is
S3: touching on some really, really big issues and in a
S3: really smart way. And yeah, there's so many like there's
S3: so many like tiny moments in the show that I'm
S3: just like, oh, what is that telling us? It seriously
S3: has such a succession feel for me. I'm very curious
S3: about what the fuck is going on between Eric and
S3: Yasmin now.
S1: Yeah, Eric seems to have transferred the weird daddy relationship
S1: he had with Harper onto Yasmin, but that's kind of
S1: not her vibe. And she's got this weird Dom sub
S1: thing going on with with Henry, Mark, Kit Harington's character,
S1: Kit Harington. I got to say, pretty fun in this.
S1: It's cool seeing a guy who, you know, played that
S1: kind of hero character in in Game of Thrones and,
S1: you know, was was a lot of people's heartthrob for
S1: a while. And he's taken a bit of a break
S1: and he's playing this kind of piece of shit who's
S1: kind of complicated and interesting and willing to kind of
S1: push things if you're a normie. Game of Thrones fan
S1: and you turn this show on and you're like, this
S1: guy's up to some freaky shit. That's pretty fun. It's
S1: pretty fun to go through.
S3: Yeah, I mean, I like him in it. And also
S3: Sarah Goldberg from Barry. Yeah. Yeah, he's been great. I
S3: reckon like HBO, they just have a big factory of
S3: people that have been in other shows and they just
S3: go and get them. They're like, maybe let's see who's
S3: in there. Like, maybe we'll get, I don't know, like someone.
S3: Maybe we'll get Vito from The Sopranos in season four.
S1: Vito, uh, we talked last time about, you know, the
S1: quality increased season to season. Meg, you weren't necessarily absolutely
S1: in love with season one. The interesting thing is, the ratings,
S1: like the viewership figures for season three, have been a
S1: big bump on season two. They're 60% more people watching
S1: these episodes and watching season two. So I think the
S1: kind of prediction we had about the time slot change,
S1: the hype driving people to the show is happening. I
S1: feel like that's going to grow and grow. And I
S1: know you're only four episodes in, but I promise you
S1: it's worth sticking with.
S2: Yeah, I mean, I don't I'm not hating it. I'm
S2: not hating it. I was watching it the other day
S2: in the other room from my partner, and he was
S2: just like, are you watching porn in there? And I
S2: was like, pretty.
S4: Much, yeah.
S1: Season one really leans on like sex a lot.
S4: It sure does.
S3: It's so funny because as well, like, you know, it's
S3: one of those shows, I've obviously come to it late
S3: and binged it and I love it. And so like naturally,
S3: my inclination is to tell people that I speak to
S3: to like watch this show. And my father in law
S3: is like a futures trader, and he's like in the
S3: business on the weekend. I'm like, I was like, he
S3: was like he often asked me for recommendations. I'm like,
S3: oh my God. Like, Paul, you have to watch industry.
S3: It's so good. Like it's about your industry. And I
S3: gave him like the the kind of plot of it.
S3: And he was like, oh cool, we'll start watching it.
S3: And then we were walking home like my wife and I,
S3: and she's like, are you fucking serious? You're telling my
S3: dad to watch industry. Like, have you thought about what's
S3: in the first season of that show? And then like yesterday,
S3: I think her mom texted her and was like, hey, sweet, hey, hey, sweetie.
S3: We've started watching industry. Very graphic. I was like, man.
S3: And like, you know, I'm watching this scene where like,
S3: you know, Yasmin's dad is like going down on a
S3: pregnant employee of his. I'm like, oh my God. Now
S3: my parents in law are going to be watching this
S3: at some time in the future. I have to move countries.
S1: You see a lot of Yasmin's dad in that scene?
S3: Yes you do. So yeah, great show, but just be
S3: careful who you recommend it to. I suppose.
S1: Yeah. Speaking of recommendations, time for our regular Impress Your
S1: Friends segment where we share something we watched, read, listened to,
S1: or consumed in the world of culture in the past week. Meg,
S1: why don't you take it away?
S2: Sure. Um, my recommendation is an album that's out next week. Um, Barker.
S2: She's a First Nations rapper who you might know from
S2: her debut EP that came out a couple of years ago,
S2: Black Matriarchy. Um, she kind of came up through Covid times,
S2: which is a weird time for a musician to become famous. But, um,
S2: a lot of her first tracks were kind of like
S2: protest songs. Um, did a lot of performances around kind
S2: of Black Lives Matter stuff. 2020 2021. This album is
S2: called Big Titter and it's much more, she says. It's
S2: about like black joy. It's more like a celebration album.
S2: It's very like boppy and sunny while still being super powerful.
S2: Um I've been listening to it a lot ahead of time.
S2: It comes out next week, but it's been kind of
S2: sunny here in Melbourne. I've been playing it for my
S2: little toddlers, bopping around. They don't know swear words yet,
S2: so it works perfectly. Um, yeah, I think she's definitely
S2: one to watch. She's going on a national tour now
S2: as well, and it's just like this great boom in
S2: indigenous hip hop recently, I think, like she just won
S2: the top award at the National Indigenous Music Awards last week. And,
S2: you know, on top of Kid Laroi and Baker Boy
S2: and all these other acts coming through, it's just like
S2: a great scene to get across now, I think.
S1: Awesome recommendation. Big fan of Baka. I'm very excited for
S1: that album. Thank you mate. I got a music one two. Um,
S1: Lupe fiasco has an album out called Samurai Lupe for
S1: people who don't know he's from Chicago. His first two albums,
S1: Food and Liquor and the Cool, were like two of
S1: the best albums of the 2000, I reckon. Thomas, I
S1: got a feeling you're a bit of a loop. Head
S1: back in the day.
S3: Food and liquor. I played it till I couldn't play
S3: it anymore.
S1: Kick push kick push. He had a bunch of weird
S1: label drama and problems and kind of his career stalled
S1: for a bit. He experimented with some different genres and
S1: kind of released some decent records in the last little while,
S1: but this is easily, I think, his best project in
S1: the last ten years. It's a very jazzy, breezy record.
S1: It's only 30 minutes long. All of the tracks are
S1: produced by his long term collaborator. Soundtrack. It's a really
S1: interesting concept in this album, so he was inspired by
S1: a line from Asif Kapadia's brilliant 2015 film Amy about
S1: Amy Winehouse, where she talked about how she felt like
S1: a samurai and a battle rapper. And Lupe has taken
S1: that idea and is kind of rapping from the perspective
S1: of Amy Winehouse. If she was a battle rapper and
S1: a samurai, which sounds wild, but it's really interesting. It's
S1: an exploration of what it means to be an artist,
S1: the toll that takes, the challenges you know he's faced
S1: and discusses all of Amy's kind of well-publicised issues as well.
S1: So thematically, it's very rich and very interesting, but just
S1: kind of musically and sonically, it's a really nice, interesting
S1: listen and it's great to see someone with his experience
S1: and his skills kind of get back to the top
S1: of his game. So check it out. Lupe fiasco samurai.
S4: Yes, I'm definitely.
S2: Lupe fiasco. Blogspot.com.
S4: I feel like.
S2: That signed off every.
S4: Track. It really.
S1: Did. It really did. All those mixtapes he had. Um, Thomas,
S1: what have you got?
S3: Uh, yes. Mine is actually a long read this week. Um,
S3: how do you guys feel about baseball?
S1: I have watched Moneyball. Um, and I don't think we
S1: can replace Giambi, but I think we can recreate him
S1: in the aggregate.
S3: Well, I guess the most important question is, how does
S3: Moneyball compare to Ticket to Paradise?
S1: Significantly better. I don't know heaps about baseball, but I'm
S1: interested in sport. What have you got for us? Well, this.
S3: Is. I don't really know about baseball either, but I've
S3: been kind of obsessed with Shohei Ohtani, the Japanese kind
S3: of baseball sensation.
S4: Who is? Oh, yeah.
S1: Oh, yeah.
S3: This guy in baseball terms, like a bit of a
S3: unicorn in that he pitches and bats. It's it's like
S3: almost unheard of. He basically, you know, at the end
S3: of last year signed an $800 million contract, which is 80%
S3: back ended. He moved from the angels to the Dodgers.
S3: And he's getting paid like $720 million of that contract
S3: in the last two years of his life.
S4: It's like a ten year amount of money.
S3: It's insane. But what I think is curious is, you know,
S3: the story that I want to recommend to you is
S3: it's on the Athletic, you know, offshoot of The New
S3: York Times. And it's the insular relationships that protected Shohei
S3: Ohtani until they didn't. And basically it looks at, you know,
S3: he doesn't really speak much English. And so he's got
S3: two minders that kind of facilitate his life at these
S3: huge Major League Baseball organizations. And one of them was
S3: like enormously ripping him off because he had like a
S3: gambling addiction. And that's kind of the crux of the story.
S3: But it takes you into, I guess, like the world
S3: of a professional sports star who is so insulated he
S3: doesn't really speak to his teammates. He doesn't speak to
S3: his coaches. All of his, you know, life is conducted
S3: through this one minder or these two minders. And yeah,
S3: I just found it a really interesting long read to
S3: to get inside the mind of someone who is so
S3: incredibly talented, but their entire life is just about one
S3: thing being good at baseball, which he is very good
S3: at it. So yeah, I thought it was a great
S3: read from The Athletic. It's by Ken Rosenthal. He's like
S3: a long term New York Times journalist, and I found
S3: it really interesting as someone who is not into baseball.
S1: That's a great shot. I haven't followed him super closely,
S1: but I'm aware that he's like this crazy unicorn player
S1: who's worth so much money. And yeah, he was sort
S1: of being accused of of betting on himself, like match
S1: fixing or something. And then why.
S2: Would he need to do.
S4: That? He has so much money. Totally.
S1: And I think that's when it sort of emerged that
S1: he was being taken advantage of by this trend of
S1: fucking fascinating kind of sports business story.
S4: Great recommendation.
S2: Moneyball was right on.
S4: Yeah, exactly.
S1: I might rewatch that.
S4: Um.
S1: Hey, before we wrap up a little bit of news, uh,
S1: my time at The Age and Sydney Morning Herald is
S1: coming to an end. Which means that my time on
S1: this podcast is coming to an end, which you know,
S1: mixed feelings about. It's the right decision for me and
S1: various other things I've got underway. But I will miss
S1: you guys. I will miss working here. Um, Thomas and Meg,
S1: wonderful colleagues, wonderful friends, wonderful podcast co-hosts. Uh, hoping to
S1: be back next week with Mel. Fingers crossed. And we
S1: can go out with something special. But, um, the news
S1: the news is out slightly earlier than I intended, so
S1: I thought it made sense to just let all of
S1: our wonderful listeners know, uh, you've all been extremely supportive
S1: and encouraging. Even the ones that tell me I talk
S1: weirdly or have bad takes. Uh, it's the fun of
S1: being a public commentator. It's been a really fun podcast
S1: to make, and I'll say some proper farewells next week.
S1: But she our wonderful producer in Sydney, David McMillan, who
S1: helps us set up and looks after us every week,
S1: and Cormac Lally here in Melbourne, could not have done
S1: the podcast without you guys. Um, but yeah, that's the news.
S2: I am shocked this is the first time I'm hearing it.
S4: That's a lie, everyone.
S2: Um, yeah. It's such sad news. And we're gonna miss
S2: you so much. And I'm sure listeners of the podcast
S2: feel the same way. This podcast is really off the
S2: back of your big giant brain, so it will be
S2: lacking a lot. And we're not sure what's to come,
S2: but people will get updated from there, I'm sure.
S1: Thank you very much.
S2: And I love how you saved it right till the end.
S2: Only the real ones get the news.
S4: Totally.
S1: Yeah, well, I thought it'd be weird to say at
S1: the start and then just have.
S4: A conversation about it.
S2: You're our good Will hunting. I don't want to see
S2: you around here anymore.
S3: Um, yeah. You've gone to what? To go and see
S3: about a girl slash go out into the world? Yeah, obviously.
S3: You know, very sad. I am still shocked, even though
S3: I've heard about it multiple times. And I still kind
S3: of am, like, am I living in an alternate reality? Uh, yes.
S3: It's going to be very strange not to be working
S3: with you. And as you said, I think the listeners
S3: will miss you very much. Even that one person that
S3: commented recently, this has become a Osman echo chamber. Hahaha.
S4: Um, I mean.
S1: My name is in the podcast title. I know you
S1: don't want my takes.
S4: He made sure of it.
S3: That was part of his contract? Yes. And hopefully we
S3: can have time for a more proper goodbye. But, um. Yeah,
S3: no doubt everyone will be feeling exactly as Meg and Mel,
S3: no doubt at home is feeling. Which is really, really sad,
S3: but happy for you that you've made a decision that
S3: you think is right. And yeah, it won't be the
S3: same without you.
S1: Thanks so much guys. I appreciate it and thank you
S1: for thinking.
S3: About all that time. You're going to have to watch
S3: films and text us about.
S1: Um, thanks for all your wonderful contributions to today's episode.
S1: Take care. Ciao.
S2: Thanks, guys.
S1: This episode of The Drop was produced by Kea Wong.
S1: If you enjoyed listening to today's episode of The Drop,
S1: make sure to follow us in your favorite podcast app.
S1: Leave us a review or better yet, share it with
S1: a friend! I'm Osman Farooqi. See you next week for
S1: one more ride.