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S1: Hey, I'm Osman Farooqui and this is The Drop, a

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S1: weekly culture show from the Sydney Morning Herald and The Age,

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S1: where we dive into the latest in the world of

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S1: pop culture and entertainment. I mean, with Thomas Mitchell and

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S1: Meg Watson. How you going, pals? Good.

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S2: Happy to be back again.

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S1: Very excited to have you back again. Mel is still off,

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S1: but I can assure you she's on the mend. Hopefully

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S1: back with us soon. Thomas, how are you doing?

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S3: Yeah, I'm pretty good. Um, yeah. That hand, foot and

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S3: mouth really gets you, Mel. So everyone's thinking of you and, uh. No,

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S3: I'm very good. You know, it's been a big week already.

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S3: A week that started at, like, you know, 1 p.m.

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S3: on Sunday as we geared up for the Logies, an

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S3: event we both love and work on consistently. Osman.

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S1: It's crazy. If you told me ten years ago the

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S1: amount of time and energy I would spend on planning

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S1: our coverage of the Logies, doing our coverage of the Logies,

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S1: and then reflecting on our coverage of the Logies, I

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S1: wouldn't have believed you, but that is that is going

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S1: to be a big part of our show today.

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S3: If you had told me ten years ago when I

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S3: was at the Logies, that I would still be talking

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S3: about the Logies ten years later, I probably would have

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S3: asked you to choke me out. So.

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S1: Um. Well, they were on Sunday. Uh, we were covering

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S1: the awards. And traditionally here on this podcast, we do

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S1: a bit of analysis and have a bit of a

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S1: conversation about what the awards reveal, I guess, about the

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S1: state of Australian television, where things are heading. We're going

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S1: to get into that later on in this episode. We're

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S1: also going to dissect, I think, what I feel comfortable

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S1: in calling a very incredible and heart racing second episode

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S1: of Industry Season three, maybe one of my favorite episodes

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S1: of television this year, in fact. Yeah, we'll lay all

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S1: of that out a bit later on as well. But first,

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S1: there's some news around some kind of breaking news as

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S1: we're recording this on Wednesday morning, J.Lo and Ben Affleck

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S1: have divorced again.

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S2: The newsroom is scrambling.

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S1: We're all a bit late to this recording, trying to

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S1: get all our angles covered on this one. I feel

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S1: like celeb separation news. Not normally the kind of thing

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S1: that we discuss, but the relationship between these two sort

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S1: of transcends. Just like gossip stuff. These guys have been

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S1: absolute pillars of pop culture for decades now. Want to

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S1: talk a little bit about, you know, the last couple

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S1: of years they've had and where it all goes, but

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S1: maybe before. I'm interested to get your guys take on

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S1: exactly why we have, throughout the years, put so much

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S1: stock in the Bennifer dynamic. Meg, do you ever do

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S1: you have a take?

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S2: Yeah, I mean, they're one of the foundational celebrity couples.

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S2: I think they kind of almost invented the idea of

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S2: the celebrity couple. They came together at the same time

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S2: that tabloid media was booming, and it was them that

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S2: everyone latched on to. It was I mean, I learned

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S2: about their relationship before I learned about relationships.

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S4: Wow, wow.

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S2: They I think. I think that's true, though. You know,

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S2: probably you project so much feelings on these people and

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S2: in an age of like tabloid magazine covers and paparazzi shots,

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S2: you knew everything about them at the time and for

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S2: their relationship and having an engagement called off. It's like

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S2: that was celebrity drama that fueled so much of our

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S2: lives back then. And then obviously with them getting back together,

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S2: that also brought so much nostalgia for people. And it

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S2: was so there was this romantic idea of, you know,

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S2: maybe the person you were with 20 years ago was

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S2: the right person, but it was the wrong time and

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S2: you couldn't help but latch on to it. So, I mean,

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S2: it's sad. It's very sad to see that as a

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S2: total lie. Yeah, I'm sad I they were so happy. Right.

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S1: Like, well, I mean, not that happy, I guess.

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S4: Well, yeah, I know that. I'm sad that it.

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S3: Means we definitely won't get Jilly two now.

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S4: I know. Which is sad.

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S3: Yeah, it is, it is weird. Like, I kind of

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S3: agree in that, you know, normally, like celebs splitting up

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S3: or whatever, kind of like they come and go on

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S3: the radar and that's it. But this one, I think

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S3: people always were keen on. And definitely I think Meg

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S3: is right in that, you know, the fact that they

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S3: got back together 20 years later for our generation, you know,

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S3: people in their the aging millennials, we're so obsessed with,

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S3: you know, like looking back at our own youth and

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S3: being nostalgic for the early 2000 that the kind of

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S3: Bennifer reunion was like such a good avenue for that.

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S3: And it brought back so much of, you know, their

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S3: early courting. And then they had the pictures of them

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S3: on the boat and it was all just like it

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S3: all fit into the current narrative. But yeah, I mean,

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S3: they were one of the original kind of like, you know,

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S3: how we're all obsessed for a while with, like the

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S3: portmanteau couples of, like, sticking them together. It was like

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S3: them and Brangelina. And so like I have fond memories

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S3: of them as a couple. And yeah, I'm very sad

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S3: that once again, um, they've broken up.

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S1: Well, it's interesting you mentioned the portmanteau because Bennifer, which

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S1: is what they were dubbed, is the first celebrity portmanteau.

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S3: That's what I mean. Yeah, they.

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S1: Yeah, they sort of coined it. You're right. I mean.

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S2: I don't think they.

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S4: Did. Sorry, sorry.

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S1: They, they being the tabloid media.

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S4: They were famously hounded by the press, and it was one.

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S1: Of the reasons I think JLo said that, you know.

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S3: The ghouls running TMZ and us or whatever, they they

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S3: coined it.

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S1: It's funny because they were only together initially for a

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S1: couple of years, like they met on the set of

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S1: is it, do we say Gigli or Gigli? What do

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S1: we say? Gili. Gili.

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S4: Gili Gili. I thought it was Gili.

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S2: I don't know, maybe this is why it performs so badly.

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S2: No one knew how to talk about it.

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S4: Well, they.

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S1: Met on the set of that movie that we don't

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S1: know how to pronounce properly, and then they sort of

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S1: dated for a while. They were in the Jenny from

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S1: the block.

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S4: Music video, iconic together, sick video from the.

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S1: Block. And then it was all kind of done and

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S1: dusted after that, but probably, I guess, something about that

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S1: time that you guys have both just discussed. It was

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S1: the peak era of if you are in this sphere

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S1: of being covered by celebrity mags, the internet was really

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S1: becoming a thing. Then virality was becoming a thing. You

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S1: just permeated every part of culture. So you kind of

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S1: got in on the ground floor, and even years and years,

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S1: years later, uh Bennifer was still this kind of talking point.

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S1: And we've talked a lot on this show about our

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S1: kind of desire for nostalgia or a sense of our

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S1: generation in particular, and some people a little bit older,

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S1: a little bit younger to hark back to a time of,

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S1: you know, things felt a bit lower stakes and a

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S1: bit more fun, and pop culture felt like it was

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S1: at its peak. And so these guys actually getting back

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S1: together was this real physical manifestation of that, more so than,

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S1: you know, Netflix rebooting TV shows from that era. There's

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S1: actually two people decided to get together. I think, like

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S1: you said, Meg, there's a whole kind of social psychological

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S1: element to it as well, where people are like, oh,

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S1: that's sad. That like it didn't work out. And they

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S1: went on to have other relationships and have kids and stuff,

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S1: but maybe they were each other's one that got away.

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S1: And maybe we, you know, if someone else has that

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S1: in their life, it could work out for them. I

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S1: guess the news out of this week is that two

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S1: bad guys.

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S4: Yeah, there's a reason why it didn't work. Is dead.

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S2: I there is something. I mean, Ben Affleck seems like

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S2: divorced is his natural state. Like that does feel right.

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S2: Something has rebalanced. Well, he's kind of.

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S3: Become the sad man of the internet. There's obviously that

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S3: famous photo of him when he's like, you know, smoking

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S3: and just looking really exhausted and fed up. And it's

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S3: become like, you know, the meme for when you've had

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S3: a bad day or whatever. It's actually a great photo.

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S3: Like it's great credit to that.

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S4: All that content and everything looks kind of.

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S1: Looks still, looks kind of jacked in that.

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S4: You know, he's still.

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S3: He's like he's a good looking man. I'm all for

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S3: Ben Affleck. I text the other day I was watching

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S3: good Will hunting. It's a fucking great movie. It's a

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S3: great it's a great movie.

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S4: It's a great.

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S3: Film. Um, and I think I said to you specifically,

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S3: I wish I had, like, a Robin Williams figure in

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S3: my life. Anyway, this is my own stuff to go through.

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S3: This is.

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S2: Getting very.

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S4: Personal.

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S1: Am I not that? Am I the. Am I the

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S1: will hunting in your life?

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S3: Yeah. You you actually. And the way you're dressed today,

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S3: you do kind of feel like my therapist or something. Um, but. Yeah,

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S3: like he and, you know, like, he's always, like all

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S3: those pictures of him, like, carrying coffees and stuff, like,

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S3: he he really has had a great second life on

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S3: the internet as well as being a great actor, so

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S3: I think anything that ever happens with him, and especially

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S3: now that he has returned to his default state as

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S3: like the disgruntled divorcee, this will just be great for him.

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S3: Now we'll have another like year of Ben Affleck content

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S3: until he, like, inevitably starts dating someone completely insane, like

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S3: probably Sydney Sweeney or something. And then that'll be a

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S3: whole new story.

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S2: I will say that I don't know if all that

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S2: content is great for him. Him getting stalked, looking depressed,

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S2: having Dunkin Donuts every day.

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S1: Um, should we evaluate, like the creative output in the

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S1: last year or so? Because they've been pretty prolific, both

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S1: of them. Uh, Ben has started up this production company

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S1: with with Matt Damon, and, uh, J.Lo has this movie

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S1: deal with, I think first Netflix and then Amazon. Uh,

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S1: so Ben starred in air, the movie about Nike's deal

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S1: with Michael Jordan. Pretty good movie. I thought, like, pretty fun,

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S1: maybe a little bit underrated, if anything. He also was

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S1: in a movie called hypnotic, which I did not watch.

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S4: I have not seen that you guys are cross hypnotic.

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S3: I have not seen that.

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S1: No idea what hypnotic is.

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S4: Good for him though. Great. He's out there.

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S1: And he produced the recent Apple TV movie with Casey

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S1: Affleck and Matt Damon, The Instigators, which I watch, which is, like,

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S1: not great. It's not terrible. It's sort of like a

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S1: heist film, but it's his classic. You know, if this

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S1: movie came out ten years ago, it would have been

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S1: a really good movie. Matt Damon and Casey Affleck would

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S1: have been in a good movie, but now Apple just

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S1: pays everyone a bunch of money to make something. So

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S1: you see this title card that is like it's Casey

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S1: Affleck and Matt Damon, produced by Ben Affleck, and it's

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S1: kind of a heist. You want to watch it and

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S1: you do. And it's pretty, pretty, pretty lame.

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S3: That felt like a movie where, like in the group chat,

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S3: they were like, hey, we haven't caught up in ages.

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S4: Like, should we.

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S3: Should we make that dumb idea we've been talking about?

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S3: Apple boys.

223
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S4: Are back. The boys.

224
00:09:37,890 --> 00:09:41,790
S1: Are back. Um, he's just finished filming The Accountant two.

225
00:09:41,820 --> 00:09:46,800
S1: I'm not across the accountant universe. You guys, the accountant heads.

226
00:09:46,830 --> 00:09:48,420
S2: I am not.

227
00:09:48,450 --> 00:09:52,410
S3: Well, the accountant two is actually crucial to the narrative

228
00:09:52,410 --> 00:09:55,740
S3: of the Bennifer demise. Because is it really? Well, yes,

229
00:09:55,740 --> 00:09:59,370
S3: because when J.Lo was chairing the Met Gala this year,

230
00:09:59,429 --> 00:10:01,170
S3: and that was kind of one of the big moments

231
00:10:01,170 --> 00:10:03,780
S3: where people were like, ooh, what's going on? Because Ben

232
00:10:03,780 --> 00:10:06,240
S3: Affleck didn't go and it's obviously a big deal. You know,

233
00:10:06,270 --> 00:10:08,880
S3: she was like chairing the Met Gala, but his excuse was,

234
00:10:08,880 --> 00:10:11,219
S3: oh no, I'm filming The Accountant two. I definitely can't

235
00:10:11,220 --> 00:10:12,780
S3: get on a plane and come back to support you.

236
00:10:12,809 --> 00:10:15,960
S3: My beautiful wife, who I love, um, because I'm filming

237
00:10:15,960 --> 00:10:18,809
S3: this really important movie, The Accountant two. And everyone was like, oh,

238
00:10:18,840 --> 00:10:20,309
S3: that's not good enough.

239
00:10:20,309 --> 00:10:21,270
S1: Not true. That's not.

240
00:10:21,270 --> 00:10:22,860
S3: True. Yeah. If you were in like, you know, if

241
00:10:22,860 --> 00:10:25,770
S3: you were in like the puppy dog honeymoon phase of

242
00:10:25,770 --> 00:10:28,260
S3: your relationship, you could be filming fucking good Will hunting

243
00:10:28,290 --> 00:10:31,380
S3: two and you would come back. So yeah, that was

244
00:10:31,380 --> 00:10:34,290
S3: kind of like, okay, that's not really. You know, we

245
00:10:34,290 --> 00:10:36,540
S3: don't really buy that. I have seen the first accountant

246
00:10:36,540 --> 00:10:39,689
S3: and I'm surprised they're making a second one, but yeah.

247
00:10:39,720 --> 00:10:42,240
S1: Also where were they filming? It's an American movie, right?

248
00:10:42,270 --> 00:10:44,100
S3: Yeah. I think he was overseas though.

249
00:10:44,130 --> 00:10:46,979
S1: Oh I see oh, this is interesting. Ben Affleck stars

250
00:10:46,980 --> 00:10:50,690
S1: as Christian Wolff, an autistic Accountant who launders money for

251
00:10:50,690 --> 00:10:53,630
S1: some of the most dangerous criminals in the world. Jon

252
00:10:53,630 --> 00:10:57,230
S1: Bernthal is Christian's brother. He operates a security car. J.K.

253
00:10:57,230 --> 00:10:59,839
S1: Simmons is in this movie. I like all of those people.

254
00:10:59,929 --> 00:11:02,840
S1: I think I've got to watch The Accountant movies. As

255
00:11:02,840 --> 00:11:07,700
S1: for J.Lo, during their marriage, she made a shotgun wedding,

256
00:11:07,700 --> 00:11:10,070
S1: which I think had like a really great trailer. If

257
00:11:10,070 --> 00:11:12,110
S1: you guys remember this, where it's like, starts like as

258
00:11:12,110 --> 00:11:13,130
S1: a fun rom com.

259
00:11:13,700 --> 00:11:16,640
S5: You got your gift. It's your something borrowed brings you

260
00:11:16,640 --> 00:11:19,640
S5: good luck. Except for Uncle Greg, who ended up decapitated

261
00:11:19,640 --> 00:11:22,340
S5: on that forklift. But that's not the knives fault.

262
00:11:22,910 --> 00:11:23,390
S6: Oh.

263
00:11:23,750 --> 00:11:26,120
S1: And then next minute JLo's got a shotgun and is

264
00:11:26,150 --> 00:11:28,850
S1: like trying to shoot kidnappers and assassins.

265
00:11:31,520 --> 00:11:34,610
S7: Or pirates outside. And they took everybody hostage.

266
00:11:35,929 --> 00:11:38,000
S1: The movie was not very good, I would say.

267
00:11:38,030 --> 00:11:41,059
S2: I didn't mind, like. I mean, it's a great trash movie.

268
00:11:41,210 --> 00:11:43,189
S2: You know, if you sit down and it's a streaming

269
00:11:43,190 --> 00:11:45,590
S2: film and you've had a couple drinks on a Friday

270
00:11:45,590 --> 00:11:46,820
S2: night with some friends, it's fun.

271
00:11:46,850 --> 00:11:47,750
S4: Yeah, that's fair, that's fair.

272
00:11:47,780 --> 00:11:50,120
S1: It's better than I didn't. I really didn't like that.

273
00:11:50,120 --> 00:11:52,940
S1: George Clooney, Julia Roberts. Ticket to.

274
00:11:52,970 --> 00:11:53,570
S3: Paradise.

275
00:11:53,600 --> 00:11:54,920
S1: Ticket to Paradise on an island. But it's sort of

276
00:11:54,950 --> 00:11:55,130
S1: in that.

277
00:11:55,220 --> 00:11:56,660
S4: Just holding that against it. No, no, no.

278
00:11:56,690 --> 00:11:58,339
S1: I'm just saying it's in that same sort of category.

279
00:11:58,370 --> 00:11:59,569
S1: I guess it's like I didn't watch it. But if

280
00:11:59,570 --> 00:12:01,760
S1: you're kind of hungover on a Sunday or you're bored or.

281
00:12:02,210 --> 00:12:03,890
S3: Like, you know how I famously compare every movie to

282
00:12:03,920 --> 00:12:04,970
S3: Ticket to Paradise? Well.

283
00:12:06,110 --> 00:12:07,790
S4: It just angers me so much.

284
00:12:07,850 --> 00:12:11,689
S1: Well, I'm mad because people who hate anyone but you

285
00:12:11,690 --> 00:12:13,460
S1: and therefore are really mad at me for saying it's

286
00:12:13,460 --> 00:12:16,130
S1: a good movie. All seem to love Ticket to Paradise

287
00:12:16,130 --> 00:12:17,780
S1: and I just don't understand that to me.

288
00:12:17,809 --> 00:12:19,220
S4: No, they're in the same universe for sure.

289
00:12:19,250 --> 00:12:21,560
S1: To me, they're inverse. One is good and one is bad,

290
00:12:21,559 --> 00:12:25,130
S1: and it's not the one everyone thinks that's. That's my

291
00:12:25,340 --> 00:12:28,130
S1: plug again for anyone but you. Nearly 12 months on

292
00:12:28,130 --> 00:12:32,510
S1: from the movie's release, um, she also starred in The Mother,

293
00:12:32,510 --> 00:12:34,220
S1: which I have not seen.

294
00:12:34,220 --> 00:12:35,990
S2: I've never even heard of that.

295
00:12:36,050 --> 00:12:36,800
S1: Never heard of that.

296
00:12:36,920 --> 00:12:37,610
S4: I feel like Shotgun.

297
00:12:37,610 --> 00:12:40,250
S2: Wedding was probably the highlight of what she's been up to.

298
00:12:40,280 --> 00:12:42,530
S3: Well, and then there was she's obviously like one of

299
00:12:42,530 --> 00:12:45,380
S3: those Netflix deals. So she did Atlas as well, I think,

300
00:12:45,410 --> 00:12:47,150
S3: you know, like she's done all a bunch of like

301
00:12:47,200 --> 00:12:50,079
S3: kind of really forgettable films. But the moment again where

302
00:12:50,080 --> 00:12:51,939
S3: she I feel like she people were like, oh, this

303
00:12:51,940 --> 00:12:55,449
S3: is another crazy JLo thing was the weird like documentary

304
00:12:55,450 --> 00:12:57,220
S3: that Ben Affleck produced.

305
00:12:57,250 --> 00:12:59,290
S1: Yeah, this is me now, that was sort of inspired

306
00:12:59,290 --> 00:13:01,570
S1: by her reunion with Ben.

307
00:13:02,710 --> 00:13:08,709
S8: I know what they say about me. About hopeless romantics

308
00:13:10,030 --> 00:13:14,140
S8: that we're weak but I'm not weak.

309
00:13:15,130 --> 00:13:18,280
S1: And all of her celebrity friends played kind of gods

310
00:13:18,280 --> 00:13:20,110
S1: and masters of the universe. It was. It was strange.

311
00:13:20,110 --> 00:13:22,569
S1: I actually respected the swing that movie took. It was

312
00:13:22,570 --> 00:13:24,579
S1: sort of crazy, but it was just JLo being like,

313
00:13:24,580 --> 00:13:27,640
S1: I want to make some kind of fun, arty, long

314
00:13:27,670 --> 00:13:29,680
S1: music video type thing. Good on it. And it's her.

315
00:13:29,679 --> 00:13:32,380
S2: Vibe, I guess. Like, she's always been pretty out there and, like,

316
00:13:32,410 --> 00:13:34,839
S2: pretty cringe in many ways. And she's just owning it.

317
00:13:34,840 --> 00:13:40,060
S1: But you would say that 1234567, eight projects between the

318
00:13:40,059 --> 00:13:42,910
S1: two of them over the course of their second marriage,

319
00:13:43,420 --> 00:13:47,439
S1: maybe like one of them, air is good and worth recommending,

320
00:13:47,440 --> 00:13:51,610
S1: but maybe that's fine because obviously the relationship was about

321
00:13:51,610 --> 00:13:54,640
S1: them and not about making great content. So maybe it's

322
00:13:54,670 --> 00:13:57,069
S1: actually good that they made bad stuff because they were

323
00:13:57,070 --> 00:14:00,460
S1: really prioritising spending time with each other and trying to

324
00:14:00,460 --> 00:14:01,180
S1: make it work.

325
00:14:01,240 --> 00:14:01,840
S4: Except.

326
00:14:01,840 --> 00:14:03,550
S2: At the Met Gala, I guess, except the.

327
00:14:03,550 --> 00:14:04,000
S4: Met Gala.

328
00:14:04,570 --> 00:14:07,660
S3: I know, but then we do want like, I don't know,

329
00:14:08,080 --> 00:14:10,480
S3: is it okay for or can we be happy for

330
00:14:10,480 --> 00:14:14,589
S3: two celebrities to be in love if it impacts their collective?

331
00:14:14,620 --> 00:14:17,140
S1: Yeah, ultimately, I care more about these people as creatives

332
00:14:17,140 --> 00:14:19,300
S1: who make stuff I want to consume, I kind of

333
00:14:19,330 --> 00:14:22,300
S1: don't really care about their personal happiness. Like, you're an artist.

334
00:14:22,330 --> 00:14:24,940
S1: Your job is to destroy your life and your livelihood,

335
00:14:24,970 --> 00:14:27,220
S1: to make stuff for us to watch and discuss, right?

336
00:14:27,250 --> 00:14:28,150
S1: That's how it works.

337
00:14:28,180 --> 00:14:30,520
S3: Yeah, I'm kind of the same. Like, shout out.

338
00:14:30,520 --> 00:14:31,750
S4: To all the artists listening.

339
00:14:32,470 --> 00:14:35,979
S3: Yeah, like, I mean, if it means Ben Affleck is sad,

340
00:14:36,010 --> 00:14:38,380
S3: but we get another Argo. I'm okay with.

341
00:14:38,380 --> 00:14:38,590
S4: That.

342
00:14:39,400 --> 00:14:42,730
S1: Crazy that Ben Affleck has a best director Oscar, that is.

343
00:14:43,630 --> 00:14:44,050
S4: He's actually.

344
00:14:44,410 --> 00:14:45,810
S3: A talented guy like.

345
00:14:46,200 --> 00:14:47,580
S1: Martin Scorsese. He doesn't know.

346
00:14:50,070 --> 00:14:53,310
S3: He's he's under I would say he's actually underrated because

347
00:14:53,310 --> 00:14:55,860
S3: he's done everything. He's like, well, he's I think Ben.

348
00:14:55,860 --> 00:14:57,960
S1: Affleck is a great actor and a great writer and

349
00:14:57,960 --> 00:14:59,970
S1: a great director. I completely agree with you.

350
00:14:59,970 --> 00:15:01,410
S3: And also but the thing I like about it is,

351
00:15:01,410 --> 00:15:03,480
S3: even though he does all have all those things and

352
00:15:03,480 --> 00:15:05,130
S3: he's like, but he'll also be like, I'm going to

353
00:15:05,130 --> 00:15:09,840
S3: be Batman. And and like, the worst ever Batman in

354
00:15:09,840 --> 00:15:12,000
S3: the worst ever Batman films. Like, he's just.

355
00:15:12,270 --> 00:15:12,840
S4: Yeah.

356
00:15:13,320 --> 00:15:15,900
S1: We should just do a special Ben Affleck episode. Man,

357
00:15:15,900 --> 00:15:17,850
S1: his career is crazy. He's is crazy.

358
00:15:17,880 --> 00:15:19,740
S3: It is. It is so crazy.

359
00:15:19,770 --> 00:15:22,290
S1: Do one of those shameless, you know, bonus episodes. And

360
00:15:22,290 --> 00:15:24,600
S1: we're just sort of go back and unpack. Shout out

361
00:15:24,630 --> 00:15:29,340
S1: shameless as usual. Other fun TV news. Michaela Coel, the

362
00:15:29,340 --> 00:15:32,280
S1: creative mind behind I May Destroy You, which was one

363
00:15:32,280 --> 00:15:35,100
S1: of my favorite shows of the past few years, has

364
00:15:35,100 --> 00:15:38,460
S1: finally announced her new project, you guys. Fans of I

365
00:15:38,460 --> 00:15:39,720
S1: May Destroy You remember that show?

366
00:15:39,750 --> 00:15:42,300
S2: Yeah, yeah, it destroyed me for sure.

367
00:15:42,330 --> 00:15:45,290
S1: It was pretty affecting. It was really, really amazing television,

368
00:15:45,290 --> 00:15:49,040
S1: but very intense. Um, her new show is called First

369
00:15:49,040 --> 00:15:53,300
S1: Day on Earth, and the official synopsis is, uh, British

370
00:15:53,300 --> 00:15:57,320
S1: novelist Henry, played by Michaela Coel, is stuck, works dried up,

371
00:15:57,320 --> 00:16:00,680
S1: her relationships going nowhere. So when she's offered a job

372
00:16:00,680 --> 00:16:04,130
S1: on a film in Ghana, her parents homeland, where her

373
00:16:04,130 --> 00:16:07,880
S1: estranged father lives, she can't resist the chance to reconnect

374
00:16:07,880 --> 00:16:11,270
S1: with him and the country of her heritage. It's an

375
00:16:11,270 --> 00:16:17,240
S1: executive produced by succession creator Jesse Armstrong and co-produced by

376
00:16:17,240 --> 00:16:20,270
S1: HBO with an A24 credit in there as well. I

377
00:16:20,270 --> 00:16:23,570
S1: feel like this is designed in a lab for people

378
00:16:23,570 --> 00:16:26,540
S1: like us. Uh, the vibes are high on this one.

379
00:16:26,720 --> 00:16:29,810
S3: Yeah, I know. I mean, yeah, every with each reveal,

380
00:16:29,810 --> 00:16:32,300
S3: I was like, oh, well, the algorithms really got me

381
00:16:32,300 --> 00:16:32,660
S3: this time.

382
00:16:33,020 --> 00:16:36,140
S1: You're the man with the with the brain meme exploding. Yeah.

383
00:16:36,440 --> 00:16:39,530
S3: Exactly. Um, it's it's funny because, like, I've been really,

384
00:16:39,530 --> 00:16:42,740
S3: I think everyone who, you know, loved succession has been

385
00:16:42,740 --> 00:16:45,050
S3: waiting to see what Jesse Armstrong would do next, and

386
00:16:45,050 --> 00:16:46,460
S3: I kind of figured he wouldn't. It wasn't like he

387
00:16:46,460 --> 00:16:47,810
S3: was going to go in and like, you know, be

388
00:16:47,810 --> 00:16:49,970
S3: a show runner on another show and create another series.

389
00:16:49,970 --> 00:16:52,550
S3: So I guess something like this makes sense. But yeah,

390
00:16:52,580 --> 00:16:54,440
S3: I mean, it has all the elements to be great,

391
00:16:54,440 --> 00:16:56,690
S3: which means it'll probably end up being awful, but I

392
00:16:56,690 --> 00:16:57,410
S3: can't wait to watch it.

393
00:16:58,160 --> 00:16:59,000
S4: That's the hard.

394
00:16:59,000 --> 00:17:01,940
S2: Thing because it's just so much hype behind her now.

395
00:17:01,940 --> 00:17:04,220
S2: And like, that's a great thing. And it means she's

396
00:17:04,220 --> 00:17:06,260
S2: able to take on projects that are cool and original

397
00:17:06,260 --> 00:17:08,810
S2: and interesting and devote time to doing it. But the

398
00:17:08,810 --> 00:17:10,970
S2: pressure that must come with that, I kind of want

399
00:17:11,000 --> 00:17:13,610
S2: to just zone out completely of any news about this.

400
00:17:13,640 --> 00:17:15,350
S2: I don't even want to watch trailers and just go

401
00:17:15,350 --> 00:17:17,540
S2: in fresh because it's just too much.

402
00:17:17,570 --> 00:17:19,340
S1: Yeah, I think that's that's a really good point. I mean,

403
00:17:19,369 --> 00:17:21,949
S1: I think what is good is that I May Destroy

404
00:17:21,980 --> 00:17:24,980
S1: You was so good and received so much critical acclaim.

405
00:17:24,980 --> 00:17:27,950
S1: I'm sure Michaela Cole was offered enormous sums of money

406
00:17:27,950 --> 00:17:30,470
S1: to just follow something up straight away. And we've talked

407
00:17:30,470 --> 00:17:33,770
S1: about this before, that it's just generally never quite as good.

408
00:17:33,770 --> 00:17:37,040
S1: That sophomore thing where you spent so long writing the

409
00:17:37,040 --> 00:17:39,709
S1: project you really believe in, you pour your heart and

410
00:17:39,710 --> 00:17:41,120
S1: soul into it, and then you do your follow up,

411
00:17:41,119 --> 00:17:43,210
S1: which you kind of scramble to do this doesn't start

412
00:17:43,210 --> 00:17:44,889
S1: filming until next year, so it probably isn't going to

413
00:17:44,890 --> 00:17:48,100
S1: come out for maybe another 18 months. 24 months. That's

414
00:17:48,130 --> 00:17:50,080
S1: like six years between I May Destroy You and this

415
00:17:50,080 --> 00:17:52,330
S1: new show. I think it's great that she's actually even

416
00:17:52,359 --> 00:17:54,700
S1: though I'm sort of would love another great show from her.

417
00:17:54,730 --> 00:17:56,679
S1: It's cool that she's just taking her time and is like,

418
00:17:56,680 --> 00:17:58,540
S1: I want to find the right project. I want to

419
00:17:58,540 --> 00:18:00,970
S1: take my time to write stuff. So I think there

420
00:18:00,970 --> 00:18:04,720
S1: are good indications here. So looking forward to that one.

421
00:18:04,900 --> 00:18:06,969
S2: How devastating do you think it's going to be? Because

422
00:18:06,970 --> 00:18:09,130
S2: she's a she's really funny as well obviously.

423
00:18:09,160 --> 00:18:09,790
S4: I mean this.

424
00:18:09,790 --> 00:18:13,750
S1: This were now moving into like, you know, parent issues, uh,

425
00:18:13,780 --> 00:18:17,410
S1: sort of third culture kid disconnected from their homeland, the colonial.

426
00:18:17,440 --> 00:18:18,400
S4: History.

427
00:18:18,550 --> 00:18:21,429
S1: This one's going to hit, uh, the struggles in the

428
00:18:21,430 --> 00:18:25,000
S1: media industry. This is going to have, um, a lot

429
00:18:25,030 --> 00:18:36,280
S1: of emotional resonance. All right. Time to talk about the Logies.

430
00:18:36,280 --> 00:18:39,760
S1: As I mentioned, Thomas and I covered the event on Sunday.

431
00:18:39,760 --> 00:18:43,360
S1: The ceremony went for five hours. It's crazy to me

432
00:18:43,359 --> 00:18:46,690
S1: that the lodges are longer than the Oscars.

433
00:18:46,720 --> 00:18:49,780
S2: Why is that? Very genuinely like what's going on?

434
00:18:49,810 --> 00:18:51,429
S1: We're going to talk about that. We're going to talk

435
00:18:51,430 --> 00:18:54,190
S1: about that because there are definitely some suggestions I've got

436
00:18:54,190 --> 00:18:57,340
S1: for edits that they could make. Thomas was there even longer.

437
00:18:57,340 --> 00:18:59,830
S1: He was doing the red carpet for a few hours before.

438
00:18:59,859 --> 00:19:01,870
S2: I kept tuning in to the live blogs and everything.

439
00:19:01,930 --> 00:19:06,100
S2: You're still going? It's like midnight. Trapped in the media room.

440
00:19:06,130 --> 00:19:09,970
S3: It got increasingly more like frantic and unhinged. The posts,

441
00:19:09,970 --> 00:19:11,050
S3: I think. But yeah.

442
00:19:11,290 --> 00:19:13,300
S1: Um. What? I mean, maybe we'll start with this. Thomas.

443
00:19:13,420 --> 00:19:15,040
S1: Why don't you give us a bit of a vibe check?

444
00:19:15,040 --> 00:19:17,649
S1: How was the night? How did it play out for you?

445
00:19:17,650 --> 00:19:19,960
S1: And what sort of temperature check did you get on

446
00:19:19,960 --> 00:19:22,119
S1: the state of Australian television?

447
00:19:22,810 --> 00:19:25,120
S3: Yeah, it was. It was a strange one. I thought

448
00:19:25,119 --> 00:19:27,850
S3: it was the second year that it's kind of relocated

449
00:19:27,850 --> 00:19:32,080
S3: to Sydney. And I think in a weird way, where

450
00:19:32,080 --> 00:19:37,060
S3: the Logies are held has a kind of flow on effect. Um, the.

451
00:19:37,240 --> 00:19:39,990
S3: Was that the darling in Sydney? Like the hotel and

452
00:19:39,990 --> 00:19:41,580
S3: pretty much from the get go, you know, you get

453
00:19:41,580 --> 00:19:44,369
S3: into the red carpet at like 330. All the stars

454
00:19:44,369 --> 00:19:46,560
S3: walk down and that's all filmed and stuff. And then

455
00:19:46,560 --> 00:19:49,470
S3: the broadcast doesn't start until later, but pretty, pretty quickly.

456
00:19:49,470 --> 00:19:52,409
S3: I was like, okay, there's a lot less media here

457
00:19:52,410 --> 00:19:54,449
S3: this year. Um, like, you know, you all kind of

458
00:19:54,480 --> 00:19:56,699
S3: get shuffled into these little pens and stuff, and it

459
00:19:56,700 --> 00:19:58,199
S3: felt like it felt like to me, anyway, that there

460
00:19:58,200 --> 00:20:00,720
S3: was a lot less media. And at the same time,

461
00:20:00,720 --> 00:20:02,520
S3: they felt like there was just less people, like less

462
00:20:02,520 --> 00:20:05,370
S3: celebrities walking the carpet. And I think that is like

463
00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:07,770
S3: a purposeful thing. The room that they held it in

464
00:20:07,770 --> 00:20:10,619
S3: Sydney is smaller. So you don't have like, you know,

465
00:20:10,650 --> 00:20:13,080
S3: in years gone by, you have the, you know, the

466
00:20:13,080 --> 00:20:15,240
S3: reality stars and often they're the people that kind of

467
00:20:15,270 --> 00:20:16,830
S3: make a bit of buzz on the carpet because they

468
00:20:16,859 --> 00:20:19,679
S3: wear something outrageous, they don't really care. And that creates

469
00:20:19,710 --> 00:20:21,600
S3: like a flow on effect. Whereas this year that's not

470
00:20:21,630 --> 00:20:23,970
S3: not really the case. They're inviting they are inviting less

471
00:20:23,970 --> 00:20:26,490
S3: people to the Logies each year. So I guess that

472
00:20:26,490 --> 00:20:28,919
S3: makes it feel different. And then once you kind of

473
00:20:28,950 --> 00:20:30,389
S3: get in there like, you know, as you said, it

474
00:20:30,390 --> 00:20:34,080
S3: was that was like one of the longest Logies in years.

475
00:20:34,080 --> 00:20:35,879
S3: It was even longer than last year's, which ran like

476
00:20:35,910 --> 00:20:40,050
S3: four hours, 28 minutes. Um, so that's like pretty crazy,

477
00:20:40,050 --> 00:20:42,030
S3: I think. You know, it's the first year that they've

478
00:20:42,030 --> 00:20:43,709
S3: changed the categories. So everyone I think thought it was

479
00:20:43,710 --> 00:20:45,990
S3: going to be shorter because rather than having the most

480
00:20:45,990 --> 00:20:50,010
S3: popular and most outstanding categories, they all were condensed into best.

481
00:20:50,010 --> 00:20:51,600
S3: So everyone thought it was going to be a bit

482
00:20:51,600 --> 00:20:54,390
S3: more tight this year. And in fact it like bled out.

483
00:20:54,390 --> 00:20:55,770
S3: So I think it was over five hours by the

484
00:20:55,770 --> 00:20:58,770
S3: time it eventually, you know, the gold was given out

485
00:20:58,770 --> 00:21:00,510
S3: at the end of the night, which is an incredibly

486
00:21:00,510 --> 00:21:03,990
S3: long broadcast. But generally I think, and we'll get into this,

487
00:21:04,020 --> 00:21:06,300
S3: the vibe that I took away and that lots of

488
00:21:06,300 --> 00:21:08,639
S3: people were talking about in the media room and as we,

489
00:21:08,670 --> 00:21:11,490
S3: you know, walk to get our respective Ubers at 2 a.m.

490
00:21:11,520 --> 00:21:14,730
S3: or whatever was that, it definitely felt like a changing

491
00:21:14,730 --> 00:21:17,400
S3: of the guard. Um, you know, the Logies are now

492
00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:20,010
S3: being broadcast on seven, but they're always broadcast on basically

493
00:21:20,010 --> 00:21:23,400
S3: one of the three main commercial networks in Australia, seven,

494
00:21:23,430 --> 00:21:25,560
S3: 9 or 10. It's it kind of goes between 9

495
00:21:25,560 --> 00:21:28,350
S3: and 7. But it felt like even though the Logies

496
00:21:28,380 --> 00:21:31,470
S3: are historically a celebration of free to air TV and,

497
00:21:31,500 --> 00:21:34,410
S3: you know, all the stars, they're free to air faces

498
00:21:34,410 --> 00:21:36,869
S3: and the presenters are, you know, different faces from the

499
00:21:36,869 --> 00:21:39,620
S3: networks It felt like the big thing that everyone cared

500
00:21:39,619 --> 00:21:41,989
S3: about this year was like Boy Swallows universe and the

501
00:21:41,990 --> 00:21:45,169
S3: success of streaming shows and the, you know, Lost Flowers

502
00:21:45,170 --> 00:21:47,720
S3: of Alice Hart and and obviously the huge success of

503
00:21:47,720 --> 00:21:51,710
S3: Boy Swallows Universe. And that just felt like people were like, okay,

504
00:21:51,710 --> 00:21:54,830
S3: it's weird now that we even though the lodges have

505
00:21:54,830 --> 00:21:56,630
S3: a home on free to air and that's what their

506
00:21:56,630 --> 00:21:59,870
S3: history is all about, really. That's where the focus is now.

507
00:21:59,869 --> 00:22:04,100
S3: And and yeah, to me it definitely felt like jarring

508
00:22:04,100 --> 00:22:06,080
S3: in the way that the relevancy of free to air

509
00:22:06,109 --> 00:22:09,110
S3: is probably at its absolute lowest. And yet we still

510
00:22:09,109 --> 00:22:12,350
S3: have these awards that kind of champion that and but

511
00:22:12,350 --> 00:22:15,560
S3: they almost struggling to contain the excitement around streaming.

512
00:22:16,250 --> 00:22:18,770
S1: How good to have someone who's been going to the

513
00:22:18,770 --> 00:22:21,380
S1: lodges for a decade to provide us that level of analysis,

514
00:22:21,380 --> 00:22:23,450
S1: I will say I'm really I'm really glad you sort

515
00:22:23,480 --> 00:22:28,040
S1: of covered both the mechanics of of the actual ceremony

516
00:22:28,070 --> 00:22:29,300
S1: and how all that works. I think that is an

517
00:22:29,300 --> 00:22:33,620
S1: interesting conversation. And the more interesting, I guess, clues we're

518
00:22:33,619 --> 00:22:36,560
S1: getting about where TV is going in Australia. Meg, you

519
00:22:36,590 --> 00:22:39,230
S1: asked the question, you know, why does it go for

520
00:22:39,230 --> 00:22:41,480
S1: so long? It is fascinating that there are less categories

521
00:22:41,480 --> 00:22:43,640
S1: than ever before, but it went on for longer. And

522
00:22:43,670 --> 00:22:45,590
S1: I mean, the ratings are pretty high this year. I

523
00:22:45,590 --> 00:22:47,719
S1: think it was actually one of the highest ratings since 2016.

524
00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:51,110
S1: So at certain points, a lot of people did pay attention.

525
00:22:51,109 --> 00:22:54,410
S1: But I think still, there's no reason for these ceremonies

526
00:22:54,410 --> 00:22:56,389
S1: to be longer than something like the Oscars. And I

527
00:22:56,390 --> 00:22:59,330
S1: think ultimately it's kind of self-indulgence on the part of

528
00:22:59,330 --> 00:23:02,780
S1: people in the industry in putting together the awards and

529
00:23:02,780 --> 00:23:05,120
S1: not really thinking about the audience. I think one example

530
00:23:05,119 --> 00:23:08,090
S1: of that is Rebecca Gibney was inducted into the Hall

531
00:23:08,090 --> 00:23:09,920
S1: of Fame. Like, Good on Rebecca Gibney. We all love

532
00:23:09,920 --> 00:23:13,790
S1: Rebecca Gibney. Deserving entry into the Hall of Fame, the

533
00:23:13,790 --> 00:23:18,919
S1: the entire segment that was about her being inducted, which

534
00:23:18,950 --> 00:23:23,240
S1: included speeches from her colleagues, included like a clips reel included.

535
00:23:23,240 --> 00:23:26,360
S1: Her son speaking about her multiple times included. Her giving

536
00:23:26,359 --> 00:23:29,960
S1: a speech went for nearly 25 minutes. That's like more

537
00:23:29,960 --> 00:23:33,320
S1: than 10% of the whole time of these awards. It

538
00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:36,609
S1: just doesn't need to happen. Like that. And then there's

539
00:23:36,609 --> 00:23:39,520
S1: the classic thing of you have 30s to give a speech.

540
00:23:39,580 --> 00:23:41,590
S1: The music plays you off. The music didn't really play

541
00:23:41,590 --> 00:23:44,290
S1: anyone off this year, but people gave speeches that went

542
00:23:44,290 --> 00:23:47,800
S1: on for a long time. Multiple people gave speeches, and

543
00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:49,600
S1: it's sometimes it's nice to see it, but I think

544
00:23:49,630 --> 00:23:52,899
S1: if ultimately it all just builds up where you're getting

545
00:23:52,900 --> 00:23:56,080
S1: the Gold Logie announced after midnight on a Sunday. Like,

546
00:23:56,109 --> 00:23:58,180
S1: who's watching that? Who is that for? How is that

547
00:23:58,180 --> 00:24:01,540
S1: helping promote Australian TV? You also have there's always some

548
00:24:01,540 --> 00:24:04,480
S1: musical performances, right? This time around it was James Bay

549
00:24:04,510 --> 00:24:08,020
S1: was the big international UK artist. He had like a

550
00:24:08,020 --> 00:24:10,450
S1: big hit ten years ago. Good on him. He didn't

551
00:24:10,450 --> 00:24:12,970
S1: get wheeled out to like 1130. It's like, what's the

552
00:24:12,970 --> 00:24:16,360
S1: point of having a huge international star if that's obviously

553
00:24:16,359 --> 00:24:19,510
S1: being done, to try to get like families to watch

554
00:24:19,510 --> 00:24:22,030
S1: and tune into the Logies? No one's watching by 1130.

555
00:24:22,030 --> 00:24:23,889
S1: So it's a couple of weird decisions like that that

556
00:24:23,890 --> 00:24:24,580
S1: don't make sense to me.

557
00:24:24,609 --> 00:24:27,250
S2: Yeah, and it is a shame because I mean, as

558
00:24:27,250 --> 00:24:30,250
S2: you said, Thomas, free to air television is getting watched

559
00:24:30,250 --> 00:24:33,550
S2: less and less every year. And it needs a big boost.

560
00:24:33,550 --> 00:24:36,310
S2: And I mean Australian shows on streaming networks need a

561
00:24:36,310 --> 00:24:38,440
S2: boost as well. As much as they're getting a better

562
00:24:38,440 --> 00:24:40,450
S2: audience than free to air, they're still lost in a

563
00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:43,030
S2: sea of content where you don't even know it's Australian.

564
00:24:43,060 --> 00:24:45,879
S2: Sometimes it's not foregrounded in certain ways, and so events

565
00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:48,820
S2: like the Logies actually have this great opportunity to focus

566
00:24:48,820 --> 00:24:51,520
S2: attention on what Australia has produced over the past year.

567
00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:53,590
S2: What's the best show that we have made? Who are

568
00:24:53,590 --> 00:24:56,590
S2: the upcoming talents? But if it's just going to be

569
00:24:56,590 --> 00:24:59,740
S2: this long, bloated thing that people aren't even watching or

570
00:24:59,740 --> 00:25:02,140
S2: aware of, then what is the point? Is it just

571
00:25:02,140 --> 00:25:05,320
S2: for the people inside the room? And if so, I mean,

572
00:25:05,350 --> 00:25:09,310
S2: it's not going to have much of an ongoing impact.

573
00:25:09,310 --> 00:25:11,260
S1: I think that's a really good point. I think ultimately

574
00:25:11,260 --> 00:25:13,060
S1: that was kind of the conclusion I took away as well,

575
00:25:13,060 --> 00:25:15,730
S1: that most of this ceremony is for people inside the

576
00:25:15,730 --> 00:25:18,310
S1: room and people in the industry. When the whole point

577
00:25:18,310 --> 00:25:21,189
S1: of a televised event is that it's this opportunity to

578
00:25:21,220 --> 00:25:23,920
S1: showcase a bunch of great Australian stuff that people might

579
00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:27,010
S1: not be across and celebrate it. I want to talk

580
00:25:27,040 --> 00:25:30,190
S1: a bit about the winners and sort of what that reveals. Thomas,

581
00:25:30,190 --> 00:25:34,080
S1: you you made the point that it felt like Uh,

582
00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:36,480
S1: significant kind of pivot that, you know, this is the

583
00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:39,390
S1: beginning of the era where the streamers, you know, are

584
00:25:39,390 --> 00:25:42,869
S1: really part of it. You know, Netflix won the most awards,

585
00:25:42,900 --> 00:25:48,210
S1: largely not exclusively, thanks to Boy Swallows Universe. I'm interested

586
00:25:48,210 --> 00:25:51,000
S1: in talking about that for a second, because we discussed

587
00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:53,310
S1: before the awards the way that the voting and judging

588
00:25:53,310 --> 00:25:56,670
S1: process had shifted. So now it's a combination of a

589
00:25:56,670 --> 00:26:01,230
S1: panel of judges voting, public votes and audience data. And

590
00:26:01,230 --> 00:26:05,040
S1: I find it really interesting that even though there were

591
00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:09,090
S1: a lot of shows from streamers that were nominated, the

592
00:26:09,090 --> 00:26:13,410
S1: only actual streamer that won any awards was Netflix, which

593
00:26:13,410 --> 00:26:16,590
S1: is far and away the biggest streaming platform in this country.

594
00:26:16,590 --> 00:26:20,820
S1: And I wonder whether an inadvertent result of that change

595
00:26:20,820 --> 00:26:25,650
S1: is it's basically impossible for a show on, like Paramount+

596
00:26:25,650 --> 00:26:30,389
S1: or Amazon Prime to win an award when they're up

597
00:26:30,390 --> 00:26:33,959
S1: against Netflix, because 20% of the award is based on

598
00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:36,990
S1: your viewership data. And if a show like Boy Swallows

599
00:26:36,990 --> 00:26:39,389
S1: Universe and Heartbreak High, those shows get millions and millions

600
00:26:39,390 --> 00:26:42,240
S1: of viewers. There might be a better show on a

601
00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:45,300
S1: smaller streamer, but it just gets totally blasted out. Was

602
00:26:45,300 --> 00:26:48,570
S1: there any kind of conversation around the total dominance of

603
00:26:48,570 --> 00:26:49,500
S1: Netflix this year?

604
00:26:49,530 --> 00:26:51,450
S3: No, I think I think you raise a good point,

605
00:26:51,450 --> 00:26:53,790
S3: but I think because it's the first year that the

606
00:26:53,790 --> 00:26:57,660
S3: change has come in that that will probably be an

607
00:26:57,660 --> 00:27:01,080
S3: increasingly big talking point, like as the years go by,

608
00:27:01,170 --> 00:27:03,449
S3: if we keep going down this road where, you know,

609
00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:07,650
S3: whatever Netflix, Australian commissions keep cleaning up the Logies, then

610
00:27:07,650 --> 00:27:09,420
S3: there will probably have to be a conversation around, well, okay,

611
00:27:09,450 --> 00:27:12,480
S3: like you've given 20% weighting of the best category to

612
00:27:12,510 --> 00:27:16,590
S3: audience data. And Netflix has, you know, five times the

613
00:27:16,590 --> 00:27:19,740
S3: amount of subscribers, as Disney does in Australia or Paramount+

614
00:27:19,740 --> 00:27:21,840
S3: or binge or whatever. They'll probably have to look at that.

615
00:27:21,840 --> 00:27:24,570
S3: But yeah, I think, you know, this year there wasn't

616
00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:26,369
S3: that didn't seem to be a thing people were talking about.

617
00:27:26,369 --> 00:27:28,709
S3: People were just like, wow, Netflix is killing it with

618
00:27:28,710 --> 00:27:31,580
S3: Boy Swallows Universe. And that show was a huge success.

619
00:27:31,580 --> 00:27:33,230
S3: I was kind of surprised that The Lost Flowers of

620
00:27:33,230 --> 00:27:36,950
S3: Alice Hart didn't win more. Or win anything, I think because, like,

621
00:27:36,980 --> 00:27:40,070
S3: you know, that show really obviously Sigourney Weaver, you know,

622
00:27:40,100 --> 00:27:42,470
S3: was the lead. She was nominated but didn't win. But

623
00:27:42,500 --> 00:27:44,180
S3: you know, like that got really good reviews.

624
00:27:44,180 --> 00:27:46,460
S1: I imagine beating Sigourney Weaver at the Logies is pretty

625
00:27:46,490 --> 00:27:47,540
S1: stoked I don't know.

626
00:27:47,570 --> 00:27:49,399
S3: Yes, I think Sam Pang kind of mentioned, you know,

627
00:27:49,430 --> 00:27:51,139
S3: she'd won all these other awards and like, yeah, she

628
00:27:51,140 --> 00:27:53,270
S3: must be really excited to get her Logie. But I

629
00:27:53,270 --> 00:27:57,050
S3: think it was just a really funny night because it

630
00:27:57,050 --> 00:28:00,619
S3: kind of revealed the glaring issue in Australian TV that

631
00:28:00,619 --> 00:28:03,500
S3: we already kind of know. But like free to air

632
00:28:03,530 --> 00:28:07,850
S3: networks just do not invest in local drama. And local

633
00:28:07,850 --> 00:28:11,750
S3: drama is and drama generally is what most people watch.

634
00:28:11,750 --> 00:28:13,280
S3: So even though, you know, like there's still a big

635
00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:15,020
S3: audience for free to air and, you know, it's still

636
00:28:15,020 --> 00:28:18,740
S3: a pretty significant audience for reality TV shows and stuff like,

637
00:28:18,770 --> 00:28:21,770
S3: you know, comedy, entertainment and the Bruins and hard quizzes

638
00:28:21,770 --> 00:28:24,980
S3: and stuff. But the way people build relationships, I think,

639
00:28:24,980 --> 00:28:27,980
S3: with actors who they watch on series, is very different

640
00:28:27,980 --> 00:28:30,609
S3: to the relationship you have with a reality contestant. And

641
00:28:30,609 --> 00:28:32,470
S3: so we live in a time where free to air

642
00:28:32,500 --> 00:28:35,770
S3: networks basically only put to their resources into reality shows

643
00:28:35,770 --> 00:28:39,370
S3: because they're cheap and they rate well enough. But then

644
00:28:39,370 --> 00:28:41,500
S3: you get to a night like the Logies, and the

645
00:28:41,500 --> 00:28:44,950
S3: chasm is so obvious, because it's like all the drama

646
00:28:44,950 --> 00:28:48,370
S3: that people watch and the, you know, the, the identities

647
00:28:48,370 --> 00:28:51,520
S3: that they have a real relationship with are coming from streamers. So, like,

648
00:28:51,550 --> 00:28:55,330
S3: you saw it with the way everyone embraced Felix Cameron or, um,

649
00:28:55,330 --> 00:28:58,420
S3: you know, like the again, like Lost Flowers of Alice Hart.

650
00:28:58,420 --> 00:29:01,000
S3: And then because like, it's such a common complaint for

651
00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:02,410
S3: people to be like, oh, the Logies are irrelevant, it's

652
00:29:02,410 --> 00:29:03,910
S3: because they tune in and they just see these people.

653
00:29:03,910 --> 00:29:07,180
S3: They don't really watch because not everyone really watches reality TV.

654
00:29:07,180 --> 00:29:09,070
S3: And so yeah, that for me was the biggest takeaway.

655
00:29:09,070 --> 00:29:11,860
S3: It was like, wow, this refusal kind of from like seven,

656
00:29:11,890 --> 00:29:14,620
S3: nine and ten to properly invest in local drama is

657
00:29:14,620 --> 00:29:16,540
S3: becoming so obvious on awards night. And then you have

658
00:29:16,540 --> 00:29:18,760
S3: these two like it's like there's two different things going

659
00:29:18,760 --> 00:29:20,080
S3: on in awards night. It's like the free to air

660
00:29:20,110 --> 00:29:22,810
S3: commercial networks clapping themselves on the back for the stuff

661
00:29:22,810 --> 00:29:25,720
S3: they do and then having to acknowledge that, yeah, okay,

662
00:29:25,750 --> 00:29:28,480
S3: most people in the country are actually watching streaming and,

663
00:29:28,510 --> 00:29:31,000
S3: you know the millions of people that have watched Boy

664
00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:32,140
S3: Swallows universe?

665
00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:34,900
S1: Yeah, I think no commercial free to air network won

666
00:29:34,900 --> 00:29:38,170
S1: a single acting category this time around across comedy and drama.

667
00:29:38,170 --> 00:29:40,750
S1: And to add to that excellent point you made about drama.

668
00:29:40,780 --> 00:29:44,470
S1: I think the same applies to children's television. The out

669
00:29:44,470 --> 00:29:47,260
S1: of the nominees this year, five of the six were

670
00:29:47,260 --> 00:29:50,469
S1: from the ABC and the. And the sixth is Eddie's

671
00:29:50,470 --> 00:29:53,350
S1: Little Homies, which is a co-pro between NITV, a publicly

672
00:29:53,350 --> 00:29:57,280
S1: funded broadcaster, and Netflix. This is not good. This is

673
00:29:57,280 --> 00:30:01,090
S1: really not good. It's not a great result for Australian television.

674
00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:03,130
S2: Yeah, but I mean, do we see that changing in

675
00:30:03,130 --> 00:30:05,440
S2: the current environment? I don't think these commercial networks have

676
00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:08,380
S2: any money to invest in scripted drama or comedy. I mean,

677
00:30:08,410 --> 00:30:11,110
S2: it takes a lot more. That's why they invest in

678
00:30:11,110 --> 00:30:13,240
S2: panel shows and things that are quite easy and quick

679
00:30:13,240 --> 00:30:17,560
S2: to produce. Um, with the state of the way things

680
00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:19,270
S2: are right now, I don't see it changing. I think

681
00:30:19,270 --> 00:30:21,760
S2: it will just be a total streaming takeover eventually.

682
00:30:21,790 --> 00:30:24,940
S1: Yeah. And historically, a big part of the reason why

683
00:30:24,970 --> 00:30:27,400
S1: networks have invested in it is because there were government

684
00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:29,940
S1: rules that were more stringent than they are now to

685
00:30:29,970 --> 00:30:31,620
S1: force them to do it. I mean, I would love

686
00:30:31,620 --> 00:30:34,320
S1: to live in a world where after the logis, I

687
00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:37,200
S1: don't know, the government sits down and networks it down

688
00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:39,840
S1: and say, cool, what does this like the conversation we're having? Like,

689
00:30:39,870 --> 00:30:41,430
S1: what does this tell us about where things are going?

690
00:30:41,430 --> 00:30:42,960
S1: What do we need to do? And you know, maybe

691
00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:44,760
S1: I'm naive. I have no idea what is going on

692
00:30:44,760 --> 00:30:48,060
S1: in the corridors of power in Canberra. Perhaps that conversation

693
00:30:48,060 --> 00:30:50,340
S1: is happening, but the fact that we've been talking about

694
00:30:50,340 --> 00:30:52,620
S1: these logis on this podcast now for like three years,

695
00:30:52,620 --> 00:30:56,010
S1: and we just keep having a very similar discussion, suggests

696
00:30:56,010 --> 00:30:57,990
S1: that things are still a little bit broken.

697
00:30:57,990 --> 00:31:00,060
S2: It's been a big talking point with children's TV for

698
00:31:00,060 --> 00:31:02,250
S2: a long time, and there's a lot of lobbying going

699
00:31:02,250 --> 00:31:04,470
S2: on in that space because, I mean, a place like

700
00:31:04,470 --> 00:31:06,930
S2: channel ten used to make a lot of children's TV,

701
00:31:06,930 --> 00:31:09,660
S2: and it's crazy that you see a success like Bluey,

702
00:31:09,690 --> 00:31:13,590
S2: like literally the biggest show in the world practically. It's

703
00:31:13,590 --> 00:31:15,780
S2: up there with literally not even just children's content. The

704
00:31:15,780 --> 00:31:17,040
S2: most popular show in the world.

705
00:31:17,070 --> 00:31:17,670
S4: Absolutely.

706
00:31:17,700 --> 00:31:20,850
S2: How can the commercial networks not justify being part of that?

707
00:31:20,850 --> 00:31:23,220
S2: It's not even that expensive to produce, really. You just

708
00:31:23,220 --> 00:31:26,070
S2: need to invest in a good creative team who can

709
00:31:26,100 --> 00:31:28,380
S2: back their work and look at how far it's come in.

710
00:31:28,380 --> 00:31:29,670
S2: Just a few years. Really?

711
00:31:29,700 --> 00:31:31,229
S1: Yeah. And if you have a success like that, that

712
00:31:31,230 --> 00:31:34,350
S1: can then subsidize so much other stuff, you make 100%.

713
00:31:34,350 --> 00:31:34,860
S2: Yeah.

714
00:31:35,250 --> 00:31:38,160
S1: Um, we should talk about the Gold Logie. Thomas, this

715
00:31:38,160 --> 00:31:39,960
S1: was a really exciting result.

716
00:31:40,500 --> 00:31:40,650
S4: For.

717
00:31:40,650 --> 00:31:43,410
S1: You. Your good friend, Larry Emdur.

718
00:31:43,500 --> 00:31:47,010
S3: Yeah. Uh, yeah. Larry. Happy for Larry. We worked together

719
00:31:47,220 --> 00:31:50,040
S3: a few years ago at the morning show. Uh, and

720
00:31:50,040 --> 00:31:52,770
S3: I think, again, it was kind of funny like that,

721
00:31:52,770 --> 00:31:57,540
S3: sensing the general vibe from the organization on the night

722
00:31:57,540 --> 00:32:00,600
S3: was very much like, again, this is only my opinion.

723
00:32:00,870 --> 00:32:03,180
S3: It seemed like they were like, oh, God, we really

724
00:32:03,180 --> 00:32:05,280
S3: need Larry to win, because it was basically between him

725
00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:07,080
S3: and Robert Irwin. And of course, there were lots of

726
00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:09,750
S3: jokes that Robert Irwin's been on TV for two minutes.

727
00:32:09,750 --> 00:32:12,900
S3: He's only 19 or 20 or whatever he is. And so,

728
00:32:12,900 --> 00:32:15,300
S3: like for him to have, if he had edged out

729
00:32:15,330 --> 00:32:17,400
S3: Larry Emdur, who is a, you know, TV veteran, he's

730
00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:19,650
S3: hosted a million shows, he's been on TV for 40 years,

731
00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:22,320
S3: would have been a kind of uphill battle for the

732
00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:24,930
S3: Logies to climb in terms of defending itself. So I

733
00:32:24,930 --> 00:32:28,050
S3: think everyone was happy for Larry, um, to win. And,

734
00:32:28,080 --> 00:32:30,090
S3: you know, he gave a funny speech he committed to

735
00:32:30,120 --> 00:32:31,590
S3: his on air tattoo.

736
00:32:31,620 --> 00:32:34,740
S9: I just remembered, um, I did say that if I

737
00:32:34,740 --> 00:32:40,140
S9: won this during the week, did I? I did say

738
00:32:40,140 --> 00:32:42,060
S9: I was so convinced that I wasn't going to win this,

739
00:32:42,060 --> 00:32:44,730
S9: that I said that if I did win it, I

740
00:32:44,730 --> 00:32:47,880
S9: would have all the nominees initials tattooed on my ass

741
00:32:47,880 --> 00:32:53,580
S9: live tomorrow morning. So.

742
00:32:54,600 --> 00:32:56,550
S3: But yeah. But again, like, that's what I think was

743
00:32:56,550 --> 00:32:58,860
S3: so funny in that, you know, that was the Gold

744
00:32:58,860 --> 00:33:01,920
S3: Logie is obviously like the big award, the most popular

745
00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:05,280
S3: personality on Australian TV. That is not like these new categories.

746
00:33:05,310 --> 00:33:08,460
S3: You know, it's exclusive public voting. So seven, who is

747
00:33:08,460 --> 00:33:11,130
S3: the new broadcast partner was able to lobby massively for

748
00:33:11,130 --> 00:33:14,040
S3: Larry and they did and he won. And he deserves it.

749
00:33:14,040 --> 00:33:15,840
S3: That's like no issue for me. But I just thought

750
00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:18,390
S3: it was interesting that even though that's the big, you know,

751
00:33:18,420 --> 00:33:20,550
S3: moment of the night, it is the gold. It felt

752
00:33:20,550 --> 00:33:22,680
S3: like to me the next day at least, people that

753
00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:24,510
S3: I was speaking to and stuff I was reading, it

754
00:33:24,510 --> 00:33:27,140
S3: was really all about Boy Swallows universe and the cute

755
00:33:27,140 --> 00:33:29,690
S3: moments from that and Felix Cameron really, you know, like

756
00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:33,110
S3: heartfelt and nice acceptance speeches and Trent Dalton and like,

757
00:33:33,140 --> 00:33:36,650
S3: it just felt like the, you know, the kind of

758
00:33:36,710 --> 00:33:39,830
S3: soul of the logis. But then the actual what people

759
00:33:39,830 --> 00:33:41,660
S3: wanted to talk about no longer marry up.

760
00:33:41,660 --> 00:33:44,420
S1: That's a really good point. I think a really smart observation.

761
00:33:44,420 --> 00:33:46,430
S1: I think I think you're right. I feel like the

762
00:33:46,460 --> 00:33:49,490
S1: gold now feels a little bit out of step with

763
00:33:49,490 --> 00:33:50,900
S1: what else is going on. I feel like it's quite

764
00:33:50,900 --> 00:33:53,810
S1: different to the 90s and 2000 when, you know, when

765
00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:56,690
S1: Lisa McCune was winning, it was because that show was

766
00:33:56,690 --> 00:33:59,120
S1: winning and Blue Heelers was winning. Like all the gold

767
00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:02,989
S1: winners tended to come out of extremely popular commercial drama

768
00:34:03,020 --> 00:34:05,810
S1: or sort of comedy and lifestyle sort of shows.

769
00:34:06,110 --> 00:34:08,270
S3: And it just still feels like it is a it

770
00:34:08,270 --> 00:34:10,489
S3: is a strange award when you really think about it. Like,

771
00:34:10,489 --> 00:34:11,750
S3: you know, at the Oscars, like we get to the

772
00:34:11,750 --> 00:34:13,130
S3: end of the night, it's like, who's going to win

773
00:34:13,130 --> 00:34:16,250
S3: Best Picture and the Logies? It's like the Gold Logie

774
00:34:16,280 --> 00:34:19,760
S3: who out of a field that includes actors and presenters

775
00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:23,509
S3: and morning show hosts and reality show hosts, like all

776
00:34:23,540 --> 00:34:25,299
S3: these people who have nothing to do with each other,

777
00:34:25,330 --> 00:34:28,450
S3: who is going to be voted the best of this thing.

778
00:34:28,450 --> 00:34:31,420
S3: And it doesn't really. It's just odd. I think in

779
00:34:31,420 --> 00:34:35,380
S3: 2024 to have like the big award being so mixed

780
00:34:35,380 --> 00:34:37,030
S3: and confused, like, yeah.

781
00:34:37,210 --> 00:34:40,450
S1: And acting and actors are like, I think Asher Keddie

782
00:34:40,480 --> 00:34:42,100
S1: was the only actor and she was.

783
00:34:42,100 --> 00:34:44,109
S3: Like the last actress to win it. And that was

784
00:34:44,140 --> 00:34:45,940
S3: like 2013, I think. Yeah.

785
00:34:45,940 --> 00:34:46,960
S1: Wow. How interesting.

786
00:34:46,989 --> 00:34:49,360
S2: It's strange. What that what that metric is in the

787
00:34:49,390 --> 00:34:53,410
S2: Gold Logie race. Because when you accept actors and morning

788
00:34:53,440 --> 00:34:56,710
S2: show presenters, is it the best acting performance? Is it

789
00:34:56,710 --> 00:34:59,800
S2: the most likable person off screen? Like what? How are

790
00:34:59,800 --> 00:35:01,690
S2: we judging this? Just vibes.

791
00:35:01,719 --> 00:35:04,330
S3: Yeah, well that's the thing. Like for Asher Keddie this year, like,

792
00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:08,140
S3: technically she was nominated for strife that um, show on

793
00:35:08,140 --> 00:35:11,739
S3: binge about, you know, like the Mia Freedman show and

794
00:35:11,739 --> 00:35:15,430
S3: which has just been greenlit for second season. Um, but like,

795
00:35:15,460 --> 00:35:17,710
S3: you know, it basically it's really like, oh, Asher Keddie

796
00:35:17,710 --> 00:35:19,239
S3: is really popular. And she was on a show this

797
00:35:19,239 --> 00:35:21,730
S3: year and she's so popular. So like, she's going to

798
00:35:21,730 --> 00:35:24,310
S3: be nominated for gold. Yeah, it's a very it is

799
00:35:24,340 --> 00:35:26,859
S3: it is a metric, I think, that struggles increasingly to

800
00:35:26,890 --> 00:35:31,390
S3: keep up with like 2024. And, you know, what constitutes

801
00:35:31,420 --> 00:35:33,910
S3: award ceremonies and what they should be rewarding.

802
00:35:34,719 --> 00:35:38,350
S1: Uh, we didn't mention Sam Pang. He hosted again. I

803
00:35:38,350 --> 00:35:40,540
S1: feel like he's pretty comfortable in that role. He's kind

804
00:35:40,570 --> 00:35:43,180
S1: of like, um, you know, Ricky Gervais doing the Golden

805
00:35:43,180 --> 00:35:45,790
S1: Globes all the time. It sort of feels like that's

806
00:35:45,790 --> 00:35:47,379
S1: his gig forever, I don't think.

807
00:35:47,410 --> 00:35:49,270
S2: I wonder how he feels about that comparison.

808
00:35:49,810 --> 00:35:50,950
S4: Yeah, but what did.

809
00:35:50,950 --> 00:35:53,620
S3: You guys think? Because I felt like in the room,

810
00:35:53,650 --> 00:35:56,350
S3: last year's opening monologue hit way harder.

811
00:35:56,380 --> 00:35:58,420
S1: I think you're right. I think it was. He was

812
00:35:58,450 --> 00:36:00,580
S1: a breath of fresh air and his gags were a

813
00:36:00,580 --> 00:36:02,980
S1: bit sharper. I think he did a good job, but

814
00:36:02,980 --> 00:36:05,680
S1: he seemed a little bit like half hearted, if I'm honest.

815
00:36:05,680 --> 00:36:07,509
S1: Like maybe a little bit flat. He's like, I'm going

816
00:36:07,540 --> 00:36:09,700
S1: to make these jokes. I know they're land, but I

817
00:36:09,700 --> 00:36:12,130
S1: don't feel as excited about this as I did last time.

818
00:36:12,160 --> 00:36:14,469
S1: Maybe that's partly because the room's a bit smaller. It's

819
00:36:14,469 --> 00:36:17,170
S1: harder to vibe off it. I can't really think of

820
00:36:17,170 --> 00:36:19,270
S1: anyone who'd be better than him. I mean, it's funny,

821
00:36:19,270 --> 00:36:22,170
S1: Tony Armstrong could probably do a good job. I'd say.

822
00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:25,380
S1: It'd be fun to maybe have co-hosts the Oscars and

823
00:36:25,560 --> 00:36:27,960
S1: Emmys and stuff. Kind of do that. But Pang's pretty

824
00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:28,859
S1: good at it, so I'm happy for.

825
00:36:28,860 --> 00:36:30,540
S4: Him to keep going. I think he's good.

826
00:36:30,570 --> 00:36:32,970
S3: Yeah. No, I think so too. I think it's a

827
00:36:32,969 --> 00:36:34,590
S3: tough gig. And I mean, like, there was lots of

828
00:36:34,590 --> 00:36:36,180
S3: material for him to work with, and I feel like

829
00:36:36,180 --> 00:36:39,330
S3: he touched on all of the, you know, respective scandals

830
00:36:39,330 --> 00:36:42,930
S3: for each network pretty smartly. But yeah, all in all,

831
00:36:42,930 --> 00:36:46,350
S3: I think, you know, it's like if he can just

832
00:36:46,350 --> 00:36:49,890
S3: get the ceremony down to like 2.5 hours, everyone literally,

833
00:36:49,890 --> 00:36:51,180
S3: if they can get it down to under three hours,

834
00:36:51,180 --> 00:36:54,480
S3: I think people would be like amazing. Like our bar

835
00:36:54,480 --> 00:36:56,010
S3: is so low for the Logies.

836
00:36:56,010 --> 00:36:57,900
S1: And here's the other thing, right? The ratings were big,

837
00:36:57,900 --> 00:37:00,690
S1: but the ratings are also a measure of your average

838
00:37:00,690 --> 00:37:03,930
S1: performance across the five hours. So if they get it

839
00:37:03,930 --> 00:37:06,330
S1: down to three hours, the ratings actually go up on paper,

840
00:37:06,330 --> 00:37:09,060
S1: which makes the ceremony look like a bigger success and

841
00:37:09,060 --> 00:37:11,549
S1: gets people more excited about it.

842
00:37:11,700 --> 00:37:12,270
S4: It makes people.

843
00:37:12,270 --> 00:37:14,610
S2: More likely to watch it as well because, I mean, truly,

844
00:37:14,610 --> 00:37:16,260
S2: people are just tuning out and waiting for the TikTok

845
00:37:16,260 --> 00:37:17,370
S2: clips the next morning, right?

846
00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:19,740
S1: Exactly, exactly. I mean, we pitched this every year, Thomas,

847
00:37:19,739 --> 00:37:21,300
S1: but just call us.

848
00:37:22,140 --> 00:37:24,150
S3: I know I've been I've been waiting to write the

849
00:37:24,150 --> 00:37:25,650
S3: Logies for ten years, so.

850
00:37:25,920 --> 00:37:29,010
S1: Yeah, I mean, there's there's fewer people in this country

851
00:37:29,040 --> 00:37:34,200
S1: who have as much knowledge of the Logies and care

852
00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:36,960
S1: as much about them, and lots of experience in producing

853
00:37:36,989 --> 00:37:40,170
S1: television and just understanding what makes good content as you. Thomas.

854
00:37:40,170 --> 00:37:41,250
S1: So I'm.

855
00:37:41,280 --> 00:37:41,910
S4: Thomas Mitchell.

856
00:37:41,910 --> 00:37:42,690
S2: For the gold.

857
00:37:42,719 --> 00:37:43,109
S4: Yeah.

858
00:37:43,290 --> 00:37:45,120
S2: Why not? How do I.

859
00:37:45,120 --> 00:37:48,150
S1: Get. All right. Let's talk about industry.

860
00:37:49,020 --> 00:37:53,910
S10: So I'm sure you've all been programmed to expect something radical.

861
00:37:55,260 --> 00:37:57,660
S10: But what I have here for you today, it really

862
00:37:57,660 --> 00:38:02,880
S10: isn't you at all. Join us in the ground floor

863
00:38:03,540 --> 00:38:07,410
S10: of what is going to be a spectacular journey. Not

864
00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:08,190
S10: my words.

865
00:38:09,270 --> 00:38:12,000
S1: Well, I said it last week, but like, I think

866
00:38:12,030 --> 00:38:16,200
S1: without a doubt, fast becoming my favourite show of the year.

867
00:38:16,230 --> 00:38:19,880
S1: Episode two. I mean, this is fucking sick television This

868
00:38:19,880 --> 00:38:26,060
S1: show is wild. We didn't think we wanted a character

869
00:38:26,060 --> 00:38:30,890
S1: played by Kit Harington who is into water sports, which

870
00:38:30,890 --> 00:38:33,410
S1: is like revealed in this episode. Uh.

871
00:38:33,920 --> 00:38:35,780
S3: And of course, by that you mean he likes being

872
00:38:35,780 --> 00:38:36,560
S3: pissed on?

873
00:38:36,680 --> 00:38:38,690
S1: Correct? Correct. Just want to.

874
00:38:38,690 --> 00:38:40,100
S3: Be explicit in. Yeah.

875
00:38:40,670 --> 00:38:42,740
S1: Um, that's that's my sizzle at the top of this.

876
00:38:42,739 --> 00:38:44,390
S1: For people who still haven't watched the show, that is

877
00:38:44,390 --> 00:38:47,450
S1: what you're getting from industry season three. I mean, the

878
00:38:47,450 --> 00:38:50,180
S1: way that this episode in particular drops you in the

879
00:38:50,180 --> 00:38:54,680
S1: middle of just this real high octane, energetic, frenetic situation

880
00:38:54,680 --> 00:38:56,960
S1: that I don't really understand what's going on. But I

881
00:38:56,960 --> 00:38:58,969
S1: know that it's important and it's happening at a very

882
00:38:58,969 --> 00:39:02,600
S1: high pace. It doesn't relent throughout. There's so many different

883
00:39:02,600 --> 00:39:07,130
S1: fascinating plots, characters, situations that that run over the course

884
00:39:07,130 --> 00:39:09,049
S1: of the 50 minutes of the show. They all fit

885
00:39:09,080 --> 00:39:12,650
S1: together really well. You feel exhilarated as you're watching it,

886
00:39:12,650 --> 00:39:14,930
S1: and you can't wait for the next episode. It's just

887
00:39:14,930 --> 00:39:18,800
S1: really bloody excellent, masterful television. What did you think about

888
00:39:18,800 --> 00:39:19,219
S1: this app?

889
00:39:19,489 --> 00:39:21,140
S3: This is probably one of the best episodes of TV

890
00:39:21,170 --> 00:39:24,290
S3: I've seen in a very long time. Also, you know,

891
00:39:24,320 --> 00:39:27,020
S3: I haven't felt stress like this since the kind of

892
00:39:27,050 --> 00:39:30,920
S3: peak of succession. I would say, um, the way like, yeah,

893
00:39:31,219 --> 00:39:33,890
S3: the way the episode begins with, you know, they're about

894
00:39:33,890 --> 00:39:36,589
S3: to take this company public, but there's a blackout. And

895
00:39:36,739 --> 00:39:39,140
S3: like you said, there's no context. There's no, like, gently, gently.

896
00:39:39,140 --> 00:39:41,630
S3: You're just like throwing into it. Um, I watched episode

897
00:39:41,660 --> 00:39:43,760
S3: two with maybe what I would describe as, like, a

898
00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:47,480
S3: gentle hangover. And it was a fucking awful idea because

899
00:39:47,510 --> 00:39:50,660
S3: it's so stressful, man, and really stressful. Really stressful. It's

900
00:39:50,660 --> 00:39:53,480
S3: really funny because I feel like this season particularly, they've.

901
00:39:53,510 --> 00:39:56,240
S3: Everything is a little bit different. Even the way they're shooting,

902
00:39:56,239 --> 00:40:01,069
S3: it looks a bit grittier and everyone looks exhausted. Like Yasmin,

903
00:40:01,070 --> 00:40:03,230
S3: played by Marissa Abella. They are doing such a good job.

904
00:40:03,230 --> 00:40:06,830
S3: On making her look like she's just fucking fed up.

905
00:40:06,860 --> 00:40:09,380
S3: Like she just she's always just looks. She's such a,

906
00:40:09,410 --> 00:40:11,900
S3: you know, she's a very good looking person. She they

907
00:40:11,900 --> 00:40:14,719
S3: make her look so haggard and stuff, and everyone generally

908
00:40:14,719 --> 00:40:18,219
S3: just looks like they're about to, like, have a mental breakdown.

909
00:40:18,219 --> 00:40:20,950
S1: They look like how everyone I know feels like in

910
00:40:20,950 --> 00:40:21,310
S1: the world.

911
00:40:21,310 --> 00:40:23,710
S4: Just like not taking that personally. Geez.

912
00:40:23,739 --> 00:40:26,469
S1: Well, just like this. This sort of like within three years,

913
00:40:26,469 --> 00:40:29,650
S1: they've crunched these stories about these people who started in

914
00:40:29,650 --> 00:40:33,820
S1: this industry wide eyed, excited, like ready to go, and

915
00:40:33,820 --> 00:40:38,170
S1: then just seeing the world the way that capitalism operates,

916
00:40:38,170 --> 00:40:41,080
S1: the way that workplaces operate, the way the way that

917
00:40:41,080 --> 00:40:45,219
S1: Covid and life after Covid and relationships and the things

918
00:40:45,219 --> 00:40:47,200
S1: you turn to like drugs and alcohol to manage all

919
00:40:47,200 --> 00:40:51,460
S1: that stuff just squeezes you dry is so interesting. Like,

920
00:40:51,489 --> 00:40:53,680
S1: there are so many things happening in this show.

921
00:40:53,710 --> 00:40:55,570
S3: And it is true because like, you know, they started

922
00:40:55,570 --> 00:40:58,420
S3: out as like these fresh faced graduates and because I,

923
00:40:58,450 --> 00:41:00,790
S3: you know, I said last week, I haven't I've been

924
00:41:00,790 --> 00:41:02,710
S3: binging this show in order to like catch up to

925
00:41:02,739 --> 00:41:04,960
S3: season three. So I feel so I've got like I

926
00:41:04,960 --> 00:41:08,229
S3: feel carsick almost from going through like only five days ago.

927
00:41:08,230 --> 00:41:10,360
S3: They were like, oh my God, these guys are beautiful

928
00:41:10,360 --> 00:41:13,390
S3: and youthful and all their, you know, skin is perfect

929
00:41:13,390 --> 00:41:15,640
S3: and glowing and dewy. And then they're having fun nights out.

930
00:41:15,640 --> 00:41:17,379
S3: And I could do that too And then like five

931
00:41:17,380 --> 00:41:19,750
S3: days later, I binge three seasons. I'm like, oh my God,

932
00:41:19,750 --> 00:41:21,370
S3: these guys are so fucked up. And they've all got

933
00:41:21,400 --> 00:41:24,280
S3: drug issues and daddy issues and like, that's kind.

934
00:41:24,280 --> 00:41:24,850
S4: Of surprising.

935
00:41:25,239 --> 00:41:27,880
S2: So I'm only like four episodes into the first season,

936
00:41:27,880 --> 00:41:30,070
S2: and they already seem kind of fucked up to me.

937
00:41:30,580 --> 00:41:32,830
S2: So I can't wait to see how things go downhill.

938
00:41:32,860 --> 00:41:33,880
S4: Oh yeah. But it's always like.

939
00:41:33,910 --> 00:41:35,500
S3: Even when I feel like in the early seasons when

940
00:41:35,500 --> 00:41:37,420
S3: they're like kind of, you know, fucked up or like

941
00:41:37,450 --> 00:41:39,669
S3: having these massive benders and then like, changing their shirt

942
00:41:39,670 --> 00:41:41,710
S3: in the cubicle and going into work. It was never

943
00:41:41,710 --> 00:41:44,530
S3: felt like kind of heavy or sinister. It always felt

944
00:41:44,530 --> 00:41:46,570
S3: a bit like, oh, you know, like, you know, this

945
00:41:46,570 --> 00:41:49,210
S3: is crazy young people being crazy and young. And now

946
00:41:49,210 --> 00:41:52,330
S3: it's like, you know, even when they have these big benders,

947
00:41:52,330 --> 00:41:55,689
S3: it's never like with a fun lens. It's like something

948
00:41:55,780 --> 00:41:59,170
S3: they're escaping these, you know, incredible issues and their stressful

949
00:41:59,170 --> 00:42:01,870
S3: job and all of their weird kind of like dynamics.

950
00:42:01,870 --> 00:42:04,029
S3: And they're all none of them. There's no healthy relationship

951
00:42:04,030 --> 00:42:04,600
S3: in this show.

952
00:42:05,230 --> 00:42:07,719
S1: There are two structural things this show does really well

953
00:42:07,719 --> 00:42:10,120
S1: that I wanted to discuss because I think, I mean,

954
00:42:10,150 --> 00:42:12,610
S1: it seems effortless, but it's such a contrast to so

955
00:42:12,610 --> 00:42:15,549
S1: many other shows, and I think it's why it feels

956
00:42:15,570 --> 00:42:17,819
S1: so good and so exciting and so different. I mean,

957
00:42:17,850 --> 00:42:20,160
S1: one of them we touched on this last week, it's

958
00:42:20,160 --> 00:42:22,230
S1: the way that the show really has just created a

959
00:42:22,230 --> 00:42:25,560
S1: cast of characters and a world, and uses that as

960
00:42:25,560 --> 00:42:28,020
S1: a universe to talk about so many different things. Like

961
00:42:28,020 --> 00:42:31,379
S1: we are now in this season, getting really interesting conversations

962
00:42:31,380 --> 00:42:34,710
S1: about media and the links between big business and media,

963
00:42:34,710 --> 00:42:37,649
S1: and who pulls the strings and how news stories can

964
00:42:37,650 --> 00:42:40,500
S1: be created and just disappeared. Because you happen to meet

965
00:42:40,500 --> 00:42:43,140
S1: the right person who you do a favor for. That's fascinating.

966
00:42:43,170 --> 00:42:45,420
S1: That's sort of very reminiscent of where we got to

967
00:42:45,450 --> 00:42:49,049
S1: with with succession as well. There's this ongoing theme in

968
00:42:49,050 --> 00:42:52,110
S1: this season about the contradictions around ethical investing. You've got

969
00:42:52,110 --> 00:42:54,450
S1: these people who are saying that they're going to use

970
00:42:54,450 --> 00:42:58,380
S1: the force of the economy and capitalism and investment banking

971
00:42:58,410 --> 00:43:00,299
S1: to make the world a better place, and they just

972
00:43:00,300 --> 00:43:03,000
S1: keep running up against the reality of what that actually

973
00:43:03,000 --> 00:43:07,110
S1: means again and again. There's this ongoing throughline throughout the show, really,

974
00:43:07,110 --> 00:43:11,430
S1: all three seasons about sexual assault and not just the

975
00:43:11,430 --> 00:43:15,170
S1: human ramifications of being a victim of sexual assault. But

976
00:43:15,170 --> 00:43:19,100
S1: the way that structures and organizations deal with it, and

977
00:43:19,100 --> 00:43:22,160
S1: who covers it for who and what consequences are. It's

978
00:43:22,160 --> 00:43:25,910
S1: really interesting stuff to do with a show that's ostensibly

979
00:43:25,910 --> 00:43:27,770
S1: about a bunch of young people who like to party

980
00:43:27,770 --> 00:43:31,280
S1: and trade shares at a high pace. And the other thing,

981
00:43:31,280 --> 00:43:33,890
S1: structurally that's really interesting is we're going week to week,

982
00:43:33,890 --> 00:43:36,259
S1: which is amazing, but kind of like the last season

983
00:43:36,290 --> 00:43:39,290
S1: of succession. We're seeing it happen in real time, like

984
00:43:39,320 --> 00:43:41,960
S1: every episode so far has been a day. So when

985
00:43:41,960 --> 00:43:44,690
S1: you pick up again at episode two and we know

986
00:43:44,690 --> 00:43:48,440
S1: that episode one kind of ended with, uh, Eric and

987
00:43:48,440 --> 00:43:51,200
S1: Yasmin coming in after their big coke bender, and you're

988
00:43:51,200 --> 00:43:54,799
S1: seeing the consequences of it the next week where she's, like,

989
00:43:54,800 --> 00:43:57,319
S1: spinning out. She's about to throw up. He still hasn't

990
00:43:57,350 --> 00:44:01,339
S1: tucked his shirt in. And it it's so interesting using

991
00:44:01,340 --> 00:44:05,719
S1: that kind of frame, that time space to help us

992
00:44:05,719 --> 00:44:08,270
S1: to the point you were making. Thomas see the darkness,

993
00:44:08,270 --> 00:44:10,640
S1: the grimness of you actually feel what it's like to

994
00:44:10,670 --> 00:44:13,280
S1: be dealing with an IPO when you've been up all

995
00:44:13,290 --> 00:44:17,100
S1: night doing cocaine with your boss. And I don't think

996
00:44:17,100 --> 00:44:20,250
S1: there's any repentance coming. I don't think there's any salvation

997
00:44:20,250 --> 00:44:23,190
S1: for these people. It just seems like they have made

998
00:44:23,190 --> 00:44:25,080
S1: a lot of bad decisions. They've betrayed a lot of

999
00:44:25,110 --> 00:44:28,170
S1: their friends. There's not much left other than their ability

1000
00:44:28,170 --> 00:44:30,870
S1: to deliver profit for their bosses. And if they can't

1001
00:44:30,870 --> 00:44:34,650
S1: do that, what do they have? And that's a fascinating

1002
00:44:34,680 --> 00:44:36,090
S1: thing to explore, I think.

1003
00:44:36,120 --> 00:44:38,520
S3: Yeah. And it's funny because they kind of have this,

1004
00:44:38,610 --> 00:44:42,210
S3: you know, they give you the alternate, I guess, reality

1005
00:44:42,210 --> 00:44:44,700
S3: in someone like Kenny, his character, who has such a

1006
00:44:44,700 --> 00:44:46,710
S3: big journey through the show. You know, when we first

1007
00:44:46,710 --> 00:44:49,230
S3: meet Kenny, he's all the worst things you hear about

1008
00:44:49,230 --> 00:44:53,850
S3: this industry. He's sexist, he's an alcoholic. He is abusive.

1009
00:44:53,940 --> 00:44:56,820
S3: You know, he abuses his privilege and is just awful

1010
00:44:56,820 --> 00:44:58,470
S3: to be around. And then his character, I feel like,

1011
00:44:58,500 --> 00:45:00,299
S3: has such an interesting journey in that he gets sober

1012
00:45:00,300 --> 00:45:03,239
S3: and becomes like a really nice, protective guy. And then,

1013
00:45:03,270 --> 00:45:07,169
S3: you know, like, spoiler alert, he gets ousted and his

1014
00:45:07,170 --> 00:45:09,989
S3: career is over because he doesn't he can no longer

1015
00:45:09,989 --> 00:45:13,450
S3: play that game. And yeah I feel like it is

1016
00:45:13,450 --> 00:45:15,940
S3: touching on some really, really big issues and in a

1017
00:45:15,940 --> 00:45:19,060
S3: really smart way. And yeah, there's so many like there's

1018
00:45:19,060 --> 00:45:21,790
S3: so many like tiny moments in the show that I'm

1019
00:45:21,790 --> 00:45:23,710
S3: just like, oh, what is that telling us? It seriously

1020
00:45:23,710 --> 00:45:27,040
S3: has such a succession feel for me. I'm very curious

1021
00:45:27,040 --> 00:45:29,950
S3: about what the fuck is going on between Eric and

1022
00:45:29,950 --> 00:45:30,790
S3: Yasmin now.

1023
00:45:30,820 --> 00:45:33,190
S1: Yeah, Eric seems to have transferred the weird daddy relationship

1024
00:45:33,190 --> 00:45:36,370
S1: he had with Harper onto Yasmin, but that's kind of

1025
00:45:36,400 --> 00:45:40,000
S1: not her vibe. And she's got this weird Dom sub

1026
00:45:40,030 --> 00:45:42,850
S1: thing going on with with Henry, Mark, Kit Harington's character,

1027
00:45:42,880 --> 00:45:45,370
S1: Kit Harington. I got to say, pretty fun in this.

1028
00:45:45,400 --> 00:45:48,430
S1: It's cool seeing a guy who, you know, played that

1029
00:45:48,430 --> 00:45:51,880
S1: kind of hero character in in Game of Thrones and,

1030
00:45:51,910 --> 00:45:53,980
S1: you know, was was a lot of people's heartthrob for

1031
00:45:53,980 --> 00:45:55,840
S1: a while. And he's taken a bit of a break

1032
00:45:55,840 --> 00:45:58,090
S1: and he's playing this kind of piece of shit who's

1033
00:45:58,090 --> 00:46:01,149
S1: kind of complicated and interesting and willing to kind of

1034
00:46:01,180 --> 00:46:04,180
S1: push things if you're a normie. Game of Thrones fan

1035
00:46:04,180 --> 00:46:06,160
S1: and you turn this show on and you're like, this

1036
00:46:06,160 --> 00:46:08,410
S1: guy's up to some freaky shit. That's pretty fun. It's

1037
00:46:08,410 --> 00:46:09,460
S1: pretty fun to go through.

1038
00:46:09,489 --> 00:46:12,219
S3: Yeah, I mean, I like him in it. And also

1039
00:46:12,250 --> 00:46:15,190
S3: Sarah Goldberg from Barry. Yeah. Yeah, he's been great. I

1040
00:46:15,190 --> 00:46:17,080
S3: reckon like HBO, they just have a big factory of

1041
00:46:17,080 --> 00:46:18,520
S3: people that have been in other shows and they just

1042
00:46:18,520 --> 00:46:20,920
S3: go and get them. They're like, maybe let's see who's

1043
00:46:20,920 --> 00:46:23,830
S3: in there. Like, maybe we'll get, I don't know, like someone.

1044
00:46:23,860 --> 00:46:26,469
S3: Maybe we'll get Vito from The Sopranos in season four.

1045
00:46:27,250 --> 00:46:30,400
S1: Vito, uh, we talked last time about, you know, the

1046
00:46:30,400 --> 00:46:34,239
S1: quality increased season to season. Meg, you weren't necessarily absolutely

1047
00:46:34,239 --> 00:46:37,660
S1: in love with season one. The interesting thing is, the ratings,

1048
00:46:37,660 --> 00:46:40,120
S1: like the viewership figures for season three, have been a

1049
00:46:40,120 --> 00:46:43,510
S1: big bump on season two. They're 60% more people watching

1050
00:46:43,510 --> 00:46:45,850
S1: these episodes and watching season two. So I think the

1051
00:46:45,880 --> 00:46:48,340
S1: kind of prediction we had about the time slot change,

1052
00:46:48,340 --> 00:46:50,530
S1: the hype driving people to the show is happening. I

1053
00:46:50,530 --> 00:46:51,880
S1: feel like that's going to grow and grow. And I

1054
00:46:51,880 --> 00:46:54,219
S1: know you're only four episodes in, but I promise you

1055
00:46:54,219 --> 00:46:55,450
S1: it's worth sticking with.

1056
00:46:55,660 --> 00:46:57,490
S2: Yeah, I mean, I don't I'm not hating it. I'm

1057
00:46:57,489 --> 00:46:59,530
S2: not hating it. I was watching it the other day

1058
00:46:59,530 --> 00:47:01,150
S2: in the other room from my partner, and he was

1059
00:47:01,150 --> 00:47:03,340
S2: just like, are you watching porn in there? And I

1060
00:47:03,340 --> 00:47:03,970
S2: was like, pretty.

1061
00:47:03,969 --> 00:47:04,930
S4: Much, yeah.

1062
00:47:04,960 --> 00:47:08,050
S1: Season one really leans on like sex a lot.

1063
00:47:08,080 --> 00:47:08,890
S4: It sure does.

1064
00:47:08,920 --> 00:47:11,400
S3: It's so funny because as well, like, you know, it's

1065
00:47:11,430 --> 00:47:13,980
S3: one of those shows, I've obviously come to it late

1066
00:47:13,980 --> 00:47:17,070
S3: and binged it and I love it. And so like naturally,

1067
00:47:17,100 --> 00:47:19,980
S3: my inclination is to tell people that I speak to

1068
00:47:20,010 --> 00:47:23,220
S3: to like watch this show. And my father in law

1069
00:47:23,219 --> 00:47:25,950
S3: is like a futures trader, and he's like in the

1070
00:47:25,950 --> 00:47:28,710
S3: business on the weekend. I'm like, I was like, he

1071
00:47:28,710 --> 00:47:31,109
S3: was like he often asked me for recommendations. I'm like,

1072
00:47:31,140 --> 00:47:33,390
S3: oh my God. Like, Paul, you have to watch industry.

1073
00:47:33,390 --> 00:47:35,759
S3: It's so good. Like it's about your industry. And I

1074
00:47:35,790 --> 00:47:38,550
S3: gave him like the the kind of plot of it.

1075
00:47:38,550 --> 00:47:40,140
S3: And he was like, oh cool, we'll start watching it.

1076
00:47:40,140 --> 00:47:41,759
S3: And then we were walking home like my wife and I,

1077
00:47:41,760 --> 00:47:43,290
S3: and she's like, are you fucking serious? You're telling my

1078
00:47:43,290 --> 00:47:45,420
S3: dad to watch industry. Like, have you thought about what's

1079
00:47:45,420 --> 00:47:49,049
S3: in the first season of that show? And then like yesterday,

1080
00:47:49,050 --> 00:47:52,110
S3: I think her mom texted her and was like, hey, sweet, hey, hey, sweetie.

1081
00:47:52,140 --> 00:47:55,259
S3: We've started watching industry. Very graphic. I was like, man.

1082
00:47:55,290 --> 00:47:57,719
S3: And like, you know, I'm watching this scene where like,

1083
00:47:57,750 --> 00:47:59,850
S3: you know, Yasmin's dad is like going down on a

1084
00:47:59,850 --> 00:48:02,370
S3: pregnant employee of his. I'm like, oh my God. Now

1085
00:48:02,400 --> 00:48:03,660
S3: my parents in law are going to be watching this

1086
00:48:03,690 --> 00:48:06,029
S3: at some time in the future. I have to move countries.

1087
00:48:06,060 --> 00:48:08,730
S1: You see a lot of Yasmin's dad in that scene?

1088
00:48:08,760 --> 00:48:11,730
S3: Yes you do. So yeah, great show, but just be

1089
00:48:11,730 --> 00:48:13,410
S3: careful who you recommend it to. I suppose.

1090
00:48:13,440 --> 00:48:17,669
S1: Yeah. Speaking of recommendations, time for our regular Impress Your

1091
00:48:17,670 --> 00:48:20,970
S1: Friends segment where we share something we watched, read, listened to,

1092
00:48:21,000 --> 00:48:25,770
S1: or consumed in the world of culture in the past week. Meg,

1093
00:48:25,890 --> 00:48:26,730
S1: why don't you take it away?

1094
00:48:26,760 --> 00:48:32,700
S2: Sure. Um, my recommendation is an album that's out next week. Um, Barker.

1095
00:48:32,700 --> 00:48:36,180
S2: She's a First Nations rapper who you might know from

1096
00:48:36,180 --> 00:48:38,310
S2: her debut EP that came out a couple of years ago,

1097
00:48:38,310 --> 00:48:42,330
S2: Black Matriarchy. Um, she kind of came up through Covid times,

1098
00:48:42,330 --> 00:48:45,420
S2: which is a weird time for a musician to become famous. But, um,

1099
00:48:45,420 --> 00:48:48,660
S2: a lot of her first tracks were kind of like

1100
00:48:48,690 --> 00:48:52,830
S2: protest songs. Um, did a lot of performances around kind

1101
00:48:52,830 --> 00:48:57,030
S2: of Black Lives Matter stuff. 2020 2021. This album is

1102
00:48:57,030 --> 00:49:00,360
S2: called Big Titter and it's much more, she says. It's

1103
00:49:00,360 --> 00:49:03,870
S2: about like black joy. It's more like a celebration album.

1104
00:49:03,870 --> 00:49:07,649
S2: It's very like boppy and sunny while still being super powerful.

1105
00:49:07,890 --> 00:49:11,210
S2: Um I've been listening to it a lot ahead of time.

1106
00:49:11,239 --> 00:49:13,250
S2: It comes out next week, but it's been kind of

1107
00:49:13,280 --> 00:49:15,140
S2: sunny here in Melbourne. I've been playing it for my

1108
00:49:15,140 --> 00:49:18,320
S2: little toddlers, bopping around. They don't know swear words yet,

1109
00:49:18,320 --> 00:49:23,600
S2: so it works perfectly. Um, yeah, I think she's definitely

1110
00:49:23,600 --> 00:49:25,400
S2: one to watch. She's going on a national tour now

1111
00:49:25,400 --> 00:49:27,830
S2: as well, and it's just like this great boom in

1112
00:49:27,830 --> 00:49:31,340
S2: indigenous hip hop recently, I think, like she just won

1113
00:49:31,520 --> 00:49:34,549
S2: the top award at the National Indigenous Music Awards last week. And,

1114
00:49:34,580 --> 00:49:37,100
S2: you know, on top of Kid Laroi and Baker Boy

1115
00:49:37,100 --> 00:49:38,900
S2: and all these other acts coming through, it's just like

1116
00:49:38,900 --> 00:49:40,940
S2: a great scene to get across now, I think.

1117
00:49:40,969 --> 00:49:44,180
S1: Awesome recommendation. Big fan of Baka. I'm very excited for

1118
00:49:44,210 --> 00:49:47,720
S1: that album. Thank you mate. I got a music one two. Um,

1119
00:49:47,719 --> 00:49:51,920
S1: Lupe fiasco has an album out called Samurai Lupe for

1120
00:49:51,920 --> 00:49:54,529
S1: people who don't know he's from Chicago. His first two albums,

1121
00:49:54,530 --> 00:49:56,870
S1: Food and Liquor and the Cool, were like two of

1122
00:49:56,870 --> 00:49:59,840
S1: the best albums of the 2000, I reckon. Thomas, I

1123
00:49:59,840 --> 00:50:01,790
S1: got a feeling you're a bit of a loop. Head

1124
00:50:01,820 --> 00:50:02,660
S1: back in the day.

1125
00:50:02,690 --> 00:50:05,000
S3: Food and liquor. I played it till I couldn't play

1126
00:50:05,000 --> 00:50:05,720
S3: it anymore.

1127
00:50:05,960 --> 00:50:09,980
S1: Kick push kick push. He had a bunch of weird

1128
00:50:09,980 --> 00:50:12,830
S1: label drama and problems and kind of his career stalled

1129
00:50:12,830 --> 00:50:15,259
S1: for a bit. He experimented with some different genres and

1130
00:50:15,260 --> 00:50:18,440
S1: kind of released some decent records in the last little while,

1131
00:50:18,440 --> 00:50:20,839
S1: but this is easily, I think, his best project in

1132
00:50:20,840 --> 00:50:24,440
S1: the last ten years. It's a very jazzy, breezy record.

1133
00:50:24,469 --> 00:50:26,870
S1: It's only 30 minutes long. All of the tracks are

1134
00:50:26,870 --> 00:50:29,960
S1: produced by his long term collaborator. Soundtrack. It's a really

1135
00:50:29,960 --> 00:50:33,200
S1: interesting concept in this album, so he was inspired by

1136
00:50:33,200 --> 00:50:37,759
S1: a line from Asif Kapadia's brilliant 2015 film Amy about

1137
00:50:37,760 --> 00:50:41,180
S1: Amy Winehouse, where she talked about how she felt like

1138
00:50:41,210 --> 00:50:45,230
S1: a samurai and a battle rapper. And Lupe has taken

1139
00:50:45,230 --> 00:50:48,410
S1: that idea and is kind of rapping from the perspective

1140
00:50:48,410 --> 00:50:51,050
S1: of Amy Winehouse. If she was a battle rapper and

1141
00:50:51,050 --> 00:50:54,800
S1: a samurai, which sounds wild, but it's really interesting. It's

1142
00:50:54,830 --> 00:50:57,529
S1: an exploration of what it means to be an artist,

1143
00:50:57,530 --> 00:51:00,710
S1: the toll that takes, the challenges you know he's faced

1144
00:51:00,710 --> 00:51:04,400
S1: and discusses all of Amy's kind of well-publicised issues as well.

1145
00:51:04,400 --> 00:51:07,600
S1: So thematically, it's very rich and very interesting, but just

1146
00:51:07,630 --> 00:51:10,570
S1: kind of musically and sonically, it's a really nice, interesting

1147
00:51:10,570 --> 00:51:13,660
S1: listen and it's great to see someone with his experience

1148
00:51:13,660 --> 00:51:16,509
S1: and his skills kind of get back to the top

1149
00:51:16,510 --> 00:51:19,629
S1: of his game. So check it out. Lupe fiasco samurai.

1150
00:51:19,989 --> 00:51:20,560
S4: Yes, I'm definitely.

1151
00:51:20,650 --> 00:51:22,600
S2: Lupe fiasco. Blogspot.com.

1152
00:51:22,630 --> 00:51:22,930
S4: I feel like.

1153
00:51:22,960 --> 00:51:23,860
S2: That signed off every.

1154
00:51:23,860 --> 00:51:25,270
S4: Track. It really.

1155
00:51:25,270 --> 00:51:28,420
S1: Did. It really did. All those mixtapes he had. Um, Thomas,

1156
00:51:28,420 --> 00:51:29,230
S1: what have you got?

1157
00:51:29,260 --> 00:51:32,290
S3: Uh, yes. Mine is actually a long read this week. Um,

1158
00:51:32,290 --> 00:51:34,480
S3: how do you guys feel about baseball?

1159
00:51:35,200 --> 00:51:40,120
S1: I have watched Moneyball. Um, and I don't think we

1160
00:51:40,120 --> 00:51:42,969
S1: can replace Giambi, but I think we can recreate him

1161
00:51:42,969 --> 00:51:43,900
S1: in the aggregate.

1162
00:51:43,930 --> 00:51:45,850
S3: Well, I guess the most important question is, how does

1163
00:51:45,850 --> 00:51:48,009
S3: Moneyball compare to Ticket to Paradise?

1164
00:51:48,850 --> 00:51:51,219
S1: Significantly better. I don't know heaps about baseball, but I'm

1165
00:51:51,219 --> 00:51:53,080
S1: interested in sport. What have you got for us? Well, this.

1166
00:51:53,080 --> 00:51:54,790
S3: Is. I don't really know about baseball either, but I've

1167
00:51:54,790 --> 00:51:58,390
S3: been kind of obsessed with Shohei Ohtani, the Japanese kind

1168
00:51:58,390 --> 00:51:59,649
S3: of baseball sensation.

1169
00:51:59,650 --> 00:52:00,430
S4: Who is? Oh, yeah.

1170
00:52:00,460 --> 00:52:00,790
S1: Oh, yeah.

1171
00:52:00,820 --> 00:52:03,130
S3: This guy in baseball terms, like a bit of a

1172
00:52:03,130 --> 00:52:06,190
S3: unicorn in that he pitches and bats. It's it's like

1173
00:52:06,219 --> 00:52:08,980
S3: almost unheard of. He basically, you know, at the end

1174
00:52:08,980 --> 00:52:13,210
S3: of last year signed an $800 million contract, which is 80%

1175
00:52:13,210 --> 00:52:17,109
S3: back ended. He moved from the angels to the Dodgers.

1176
00:52:17,140 --> 00:52:19,930
S3: And he's getting paid like $720 million of that contract

1177
00:52:19,930 --> 00:52:21,370
S3: in the last two years of his life.

1178
00:52:21,460 --> 00:52:22,810
S4: It's like a ten year amount of money.

1179
00:52:22,840 --> 00:52:26,380
S3: It's insane. But what I think is curious is, you know,

1180
00:52:26,410 --> 00:52:28,480
S3: the story that I want to recommend to you is

1181
00:52:28,480 --> 00:52:30,430
S3: it's on the Athletic, you know, offshoot of The New

1182
00:52:30,460 --> 00:52:33,969
S3: York Times. And it's the insular relationships that protected Shohei

1183
00:52:34,000 --> 00:52:36,760
S3: Ohtani until they didn't. And basically it looks at, you know,

1184
00:52:36,790 --> 00:52:38,799
S3: he doesn't really speak much English. And so he's got

1185
00:52:38,800 --> 00:52:41,950
S3: two minders that kind of facilitate his life at these

1186
00:52:41,950 --> 00:52:44,890
S3: huge Major League Baseball organizations. And one of them was

1187
00:52:44,920 --> 00:52:47,950
S3: like enormously ripping him off because he had like a

1188
00:52:47,950 --> 00:52:50,530
S3: gambling addiction. And that's kind of the crux of the story.

1189
00:52:50,530 --> 00:52:52,510
S3: But it takes you into, I guess, like the world

1190
00:52:52,510 --> 00:52:55,420
S3: of a professional sports star who is so insulated he

1191
00:52:55,420 --> 00:52:57,130
S3: doesn't really speak to his teammates. He doesn't speak to

1192
00:52:57,160 --> 00:52:59,980
S3: his coaches. All of his, you know, life is conducted

1193
00:52:59,980 --> 00:53:03,370
S3: through this one minder or these two minders. And yeah,

1194
00:53:03,370 --> 00:53:05,310
S3: I just found it a really interesting long read to

1195
00:53:05,340 --> 00:53:07,770
S3: to get inside the mind of someone who is so

1196
00:53:07,770 --> 00:53:10,560
S3: incredibly talented, but their entire life is just about one

1197
00:53:10,560 --> 00:53:13,230
S3: thing being good at baseball, which he is very good

1198
00:53:13,230 --> 00:53:14,850
S3: at it. So yeah, I thought it was a great

1199
00:53:14,850 --> 00:53:17,339
S3: read from The Athletic. It's by Ken Rosenthal. He's like

1200
00:53:17,370 --> 00:53:19,680
S3: a long term New York Times journalist, and I found

1201
00:53:19,680 --> 00:53:21,750
S3: it really interesting as someone who is not into baseball.

1202
00:53:21,780 --> 00:53:24,300
S1: That's a great shot. I haven't followed him super closely,

1203
00:53:24,300 --> 00:53:27,090
S1: but I'm aware that he's like this crazy unicorn player

1204
00:53:27,090 --> 00:53:28,800
S1: who's worth so much money. And yeah, he was sort

1205
00:53:28,830 --> 00:53:31,739
S1: of being accused of of betting on himself, like match

1206
00:53:31,770 --> 00:53:33,330
S1: fixing or something. And then why.

1207
00:53:33,330 --> 00:53:33,990
S2: Would he need to do.

1208
00:53:33,989 --> 00:53:35,640
S4: That? He has so much money. Totally.

1209
00:53:35,670 --> 00:53:37,109
S1: And I think that's when it sort of emerged that

1210
00:53:37,110 --> 00:53:39,660
S1: he was being taken advantage of by this trend of

1211
00:53:39,870 --> 00:53:42,840
S1: fucking fascinating kind of sports business story.

1212
00:53:42,870 --> 00:53:43,530
S4: Great recommendation.

1213
00:53:43,739 --> 00:53:44,790
S2: Moneyball was right on.

1214
00:53:44,820 --> 00:53:45,840
S4: Yeah, exactly.

1215
00:53:46,980 --> 00:53:48,270
S1: I might rewatch that.

1216
00:53:48,960 --> 00:53:49,440
S4: Um.

1217
00:53:50,340 --> 00:53:52,649
S1: Hey, before we wrap up a little bit of news, uh,

1218
00:53:52,650 --> 00:53:56,100
S1: my time at The Age and Sydney Morning Herald is

1219
00:53:56,100 --> 00:53:59,700
S1: coming to an end. Which means that my time on

1220
00:53:59,700 --> 00:54:02,970
S1: this podcast is coming to an end, which you know,

1221
00:54:03,000 --> 00:54:05,910
S1: mixed feelings about. It's the right decision for me and

1222
00:54:05,910 --> 00:54:09,870
S1: various other things I've got underway. But I will miss

1223
00:54:09,900 --> 00:54:13,109
S1: you guys. I will miss working here. Um, Thomas and Meg,

1224
00:54:13,110 --> 00:54:18,030
S1: wonderful colleagues, wonderful friends, wonderful podcast co-hosts. Uh, hoping to

1225
00:54:18,030 --> 00:54:20,820
S1: be back next week with Mel. Fingers crossed. And we

1226
00:54:20,820 --> 00:54:24,270
S1: can go out with something special. But, um, the news

1227
00:54:24,300 --> 00:54:27,090
S1: the news is out slightly earlier than I intended, so

1228
00:54:27,090 --> 00:54:29,190
S1: I thought it made sense to just let all of

1229
00:54:29,190 --> 00:54:33,660
S1: our wonderful listeners know, uh, you've all been extremely supportive

1230
00:54:33,660 --> 00:54:36,630
S1: and encouraging. Even the ones that tell me I talk

1231
00:54:36,630 --> 00:54:40,140
S1: weirdly or have bad takes. Uh, it's the fun of

1232
00:54:40,140 --> 00:54:43,259
S1: being a public commentator. It's been a really fun podcast

1233
00:54:43,260 --> 00:54:46,920
S1: to make, and I'll say some proper farewells next week.

1234
00:54:46,920 --> 00:54:50,279
S1: But she our wonderful producer in Sydney, David McMillan, who

1235
00:54:50,280 --> 00:54:52,439
S1: helps us set up and looks after us every week,

1236
00:54:52,440 --> 00:54:55,410
S1: and Cormac Lally here in Melbourne, could not have done

1237
00:54:55,410 --> 00:54:59,850
S1: the podcast without you guys. Um, but yeah, that's the news.

1238
00:55:00,000 --> 00:55:02,390
S2: I am shocked this is the first time I'm hearing it.

1239
00:55:02,960 --> 00:55:04,279
S4: That's a lie, everyone.

1240
00:55:05,420 --> 00:55:08,390
S2: Um, yeah. It's such sad news. And we're gonna miss

1241
00:55:08,420 --> 00:55:10,580
S2: you so much. And I'm sure listeners of the podcast

1242
00:55:10,580 --> 00:55:13,190
S2: feel the same way. This podcast is really off the

1243
00:55:13,190 --> 00:55:17,240
S2: back of your big giant brain, so it will be

1244
00:55:17,239 --> 00:55:19,250
S2: lacking a lot. And we're not sure what's to come,

1245
00:55:19,250 --> 00:55:21,680
S2: but people will get updated from there, I'm sure.

1246
00:55:21,710 --> 00:55:22,520
S1: Thank you very much.

1247
00:55:22,700 --> 00:55:24,020
S2: And I love how you saved it right till the end.

1248
00:55:24,050 --> 00:55:25,460
S2: Only the real ones get the news.

1249
00:55:25,489 --> 00:55:25,910
S4: Totally.

1250
00:55:25,940 --> 00:55:27,020
S1: Yeah, well, I thought it'd be weird to say at

1251
00:55:27,020 --> 00:55:28,040
S1: the start and then just have.

1252
00:55:28,070 --> 00:55:29,840
S4: A conversation about it.

1253
00:55:29,870 --> 00:55:32,870
S2: You're our good Will hunting. I don't want to see

1254
00:55:32,870 --> 00:55:34,010
S2: you around here anymore.

1255
00:55:35,630 --> 00:55:37,760
S3: Um, yeah. You've gone to what? To go and see

1256
00:55:37,760 --> 00:55:41,210
S3: about a girl slash go out into the world? Yeah, obviously.

1257
00:55:41,239 --> 00:55:43,550
S3: You know, very sad. I am still shocked, even though

1258
00:55:43,550 --> 00:55:45,859
S3: I've heard about it multiple times. And I still kind

1259
00:55:45,860 --> 00:55:48,710
S3: of am, like, am I living in an alternate reality? Uh, yes.

1260
00:55:48,710 --> 00:55:51,260
S3: It's going to be very strange not to be working

1261
00:55:51,260 --> 00:55:53,180
S3: with you. And as you said, I think the listeners

1262
00:55:53,180 --> 00:55:55,610
S3: will miss you very much. Even that one person that

1263
00:55:55,610 --> 00:55:59,420
S3: commented recently, this has become a Osman echo chamber. Hahaha.

1264
00:55:59,900 --> 00:56:00,410
S4: Um, I mean.

1265
00:56:00,469 --> 00:56:02,960
S1: My name is in the podcast title. I know you

1266
00:56:02,960 --> 00:56:03,680
S1: don't want my takes.

1267
00:56:04,010 --> 00:56:04,970
S4: He made sure of it.

1268
00:56:05,390 --> 00:56:08,600
S3: That was part of his contract? Yes. And hopefully we

1269
00:56:08,600 --> 00:56:10,669
S3: can have time for a more proper goodbye. But, um. Yeah,

1270
00:56:10,700 --> 00:56:14,510
S3: no doubt everyone will be feeling exactly as Meg and Mel,

1271
00:56:14,540 --> 00:56:16,850
S3: no doubt at home is feeling. Which is really, really sad,

1272
00:56:16,880 --> 00:56:18,740
S3: but happy for you that you've made a decision that

1273
00:56:18,739 --> 00:56:20,540
S3: you think is right. And yeah, it won't be the

1274
00:56:20,540 --> 00:56:21,410
S3: same without you.

1275
00:56:21,440 --> 00:56:24,440
S1: Thanks so much guys. I appreciate it and thank you

1276
00:56:24,469 --> 00:56:24,859
S1: for thinking.

1277
00:56:24,860 --> 00:56:26,540
S3: About all that time. You're going to have to watch

1278
00:56:26,570 --> 00:56:27,770
S3: films and text us about.

1279
00:56:29,540 --> 00:56:32,960
S1: Um, thanks for all your wonderful contributions to today's episode.

1280
00:56:32,989 --> 00:56:34,100
S1: Take care. Ciao.

1281
00:56:34,130 --> 00:56:35,029
S2: Thanks, guys.

1282
00:56:39,260 --> 00:56:42,200
S1: This episode of The Drop was produced by Kea Wong.

1283
00:56:42,230 --> 00:56:45,110
S1: If you enjoyed listening to today's episode of The Drop,

1284
00:56:45,110 --> 00:56:47,779
S1: make sure to follow us in your favorite podcast app.

1285
00:56:47,780 --> 00:56:50,210
S1: Leave us a review or better yet, share it with

1286
00:56:50,210 --> 00:56:53,420
S1: a friend! I'm Osman Farooqi. See you next week for

1287
00:56:53,420 --> 00:56:54,350
S1: one more ride.