1 00:00:05,120 --> 00:00:08,280 S1: The Labour Party is facing fresh scrutiny about where it 2 00:00:08,280 --> 00:00:11,280 S1: gets its money. Five days ago, it was the result 3 00:00:11,280 --> 00:00:15,160 S1: of revelations that the party collected more than $4 million 4 00:00:15,160 --> 00:00:19,040 S1: in gambling donations in five years, a chunk of that 5 00:00:19,079 --> 00:00:22,160 S1: while it dithered on gambling reform and then backed down 6 00:00:22,320 --> 00:00:26,800 S1: from a full crackdown on betting advertising. And now another 7 00:00:26,800 --> 00:00:31,160 S1: donation that has raised eyebrows. I'm Samantha Selinger Morris, and 8 00:00:31,160 --> 00:00:34,120 S1: you're listening to Morning Edition from The Age and The 9 00:00:34,120 --> 00:00:38,440 S1: Sydney Morning Herald today, investigative reporter Lucy Macken on the 10 00:00:38,440 --> 00:00:41,519 S1: billionaire's son, who allegedly offered to donate money to the 11 00:00:41,520 --> 00:00:45,360 S1: Labour Party during a function attended by Prime Minister Anthony 12 00:00:45,360 --> 00:00:51,960 S1: Albanese and why it's under question. It's July the 27th. Lucy, 13 00:00:51,960 --> 00:00:53,600 S1: welcome back to the podcast. 14 00:00:53,640 --> 00:00:54,480 S2: Hi, Sam. 15 00:00:54,840 --> 00:00:59,560 S1: Okay. Last Monday, Anthony Albanese's prime ministerial limousine rolled through 16 00:00:59,620 --> 00:01:02,540 S1: the gates of the Sydney residence of a 25 year 17 00:01:02,580 --> 00:01:06,300 S1: old man named Felix Lee. And most of us have 18 00:01:06,300 --> 00:01:08,620 S1: never heard of this man, I imagine. But ever since 19 00:01:08,819 --> 00:01:13,060 S1: it's been the subject of massive newspaper pieces, some screaming headlines. 20 00:01:13,060 --> 00:01:14,660 S1: What was going on at that house? Lucy? 21 00:01:14,980 --> 00:01:18,979 S2: Well, what was Mr. Albanese thinking? Actually. But. 22 00:01:19,180 --> 00:01:19,980 S1: Well, do tell. 23 00:01:22,140 --> 00:01:24,300 S2: You'd have to ask him. Get him on the podcast. 24 00:01:24,340 --> 00:01:25,100 S1: Okay. I'm going to try to. 25 00:01:26,459 --> 00:01:30,740 S2: But really, what was happening was some sort of donor event. 26 00:01:30,780 --> 00:01:34,220 S2: You know, a handful or half a dozen of really 27 00:01:34,220 --> 00:01:37,900 S2: serious business leaders were in attendance. So was Mr. Albanese. 28 00:01:37,940 --> 00:01:41,380 S2: The big question mark is of the donation that was 29 00:01:41,380 --> 00:01:45,500 S2: made to ALP coffers. You know, was it $1 million? 30 00:01:45,500 --> 00:01:48,700 S2: Was it much less than that? But more importantly for 31 00:01:48,700 --> 00:01:51,700 S2: our efforts, I mean, it raises the question of where 32 00:01:51,700 --> 00:01:54,420 S2: is the money, the Lee family money coming from? And 33 00:01:54,420 --> 00:01:57,620 S2: I don't think, you know, I don't know many 25 34 00:01:57,620 --> 00:02:01,000 S2: year olds who run a sort of $2 billion investment 35 00:02:01,000 --> 00:02:04,360 S2: fund out of their family office. I have to confess, 36 00:02:04,360 --> 00:02:07,680 S2: I was not doing that at 25. I was still 37 00:02:07,880 --> 00:02:12,080 S2: I was in the Herald office. So so the question comes, though, Felix, 38 00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:14,200 S2: you know, to his credit, has has gone to great 39 00:02:14,200 --> 00:02:18,040 S2: lengths to set himself up as a young businessman, you know, 40 00:02:18,280 --> 00:02:21,600 S2: albeit from family wealth, but at great lengths to distinguish 41 00:02:21,600 --> 00:02:24,640 S2: himself from his father. Now, his father might be more 42 00:02:24,760 --> 00:02:29,560 S2: well known to Sydneysiders. Philip Dongfang Li. I've been acquainted 43 00:02:29,560 --> 00:02:33,079 S2: with Philip Dongfang Li since he bought his Point Piper 44 00:02:33,080 --> 00:02:36,200 S2: Trophy home, the one with the beautiful sandstone gates and 45 00:02:36,240 --> 00:02:39,920 S2: the European villa style, you know, fascia that looks over 46 00:02:39,919 --> 00:02:43,600 S2: Sydney Harbour, a stunning views. He bought that in 2015 47 00:02:43,600 --> 00:02:46,800 S2: for just shy. A bit of coinage shy of $40 million. 48 00:02:46,800 --> 00:02:51,480 S2: It was a non-waterfront record for that year. Yada yada yada. 49 00:02:51,480 --> 00:02:53,800 S2: It seemed like a lot of money at the time, 50 00:02:53,800 --> 00:02:55,880 S2: but of course, right behind it is a property called 51 00:02:55,919 --> 00:02:59,260 S2: Uig Lodge, which tech bro Scott Farquhar lives in and 52 00:02:59,260 --> 00:03:02,380 S2: he bought for $130 million cash. So, you know, all 53 00:03:02,380 --> 00:03:05,739 S2: things in perspective, I guess. But more pertinently for Mandalay, 54 00:03:05,780 --> 00:03:08,620 S2: it is actually the home of Philip Lee and his wife, 55 00:03:08,660 --> 00:03:12,700 S2: Xiao Bashi. And Felix lives in the Art Deco apartments 56 00:03:12,740 --> 00:03:15,140 S2: next door. But if you're going to host the prime 57 00:03:15,139 --> 00:03:17,700 S2: Minister for dinner and Mum and Dad have a house 58 00:03:17,700 --> 00:03:19,579 S2: like that, you're going to go next door for it. Now, 59 00:03:19,580 --> 00:03:22,900 S2: as I understand it, it remains unknown if Philip Lee 60 00:03:23,020 --> 00:03:26,100 S2: was in attendance. But there's a simple level is where 61 00:03:26,100 --> 00:03:29,780 S2: is this money that is going into ALP coffers coming from? 62 00:03:30,220 --> 00:03:32,859 S2: And better yet, where is the money, the Lee family 63 00:03:32,860 --> 00:03:37,100 S2: money coming from? And what we have is this I'm sure, 64 00:03:37,140 --> 00:03:41,180 S2: very qualified, very successful, very intelligent 25 year old who 65 00:03:41,540 --> 00:03:44,660 S2: the message I'm being given from all quarters is that 66 00:03:44,700 --> 00:03:49,540 S2: his grandmother, his paternal grandmother, Philip Lee's money is funding him. 67 00:03:49,740 --> 00:03:52,100 S1: Okay, well, let's get into this because you raised at 68 00:03:52,100 --> 00:03:55,060 S1: the very top. Okay. Why was Anthony Albanese there as 69 00:03:55,060 --> 00:03:57,160 S1: though there might be something wrong with that. But for 70 00:03:57,160 --> 00:03:59,320 S1: those who are listening, they're going, okay, so he's been 71 00:03:59,320 --> 00:04:03,760 S1: offered a donation. The Financial Review has reported it's $1 million, 72 00:04:03,760 --> 00:04:07,040 S1: but government sources are telling us that it's drastically lower. 73 00:04:07,360 --> 00:04:09,760 S1: And the Prime minister, he's at this dinner, it's at 74 00:04:09,760 --> 00:04:12,160 S1: an illustrious mansion. This family has a lot of money. 75 00:04:12,160 --> 00:04:15,360 S1: So listeners might be thinking, okay, what's the problem with that? 76 00:04:15,840 --> 00:04:18,440 S1: But you and our colleague Nick McKenzie, you know a 77 00:04:18,440 --> 00:04:21,200 S1: little bit more about the family and their wealth, and 78 00:04:21,200 --> 00:04:24,960 S1: particularly about Felix Lee's father, Philip. So tell us about that. 79 00:04:25,560 --> 00:04:29,720 S2: Yeah. Look, Philip Lee became the subject of more headlines, 80 00:04:29,720 --> 00:04:32,680 S2: not just for his property, but because he was a 81 00:04:32,720 --> 00:04:37,719 S2: star witness in the 2002 Star City Casino inquiry, public 82 00:04:37,720 --> 00:04:40,560 S2: inquiry into Star City's right to have a licence. And 83 00:04:40,560 --> 00:04:43,320 S2: in it, the revelations were extraordinary, you know, the extent 84 00:04:43,320 --> 00:04:48,119 S2: of his gambling. But it also it also raised questions 85 00:04:48,120 --> 00:04:51,120 S2: as to why, you know, more than $100 million has 86 00:04:51,120 --> 00:04:55,780 S2: been funnelled over years through the casino for Mr. Lee. 87 00:04:55,820 --> 00:04:59,300 S2: In the background to that, the tax office, unbeknownst to 88 00:04:59,339 --> 00:05:02,500 S2: me at the time, was undertaking an audit of Mr. 89 00:05:02,500 --> 00:05:06,460 S2: Lee's financials. You know, on a very sort of outside 90 00:05:06,460 --> 00:05:10,060 S2: looking in perspective, Mr. Lee, he doesn't work in Sydney. 91 00:05:10,100 --> 00:05:13,020 S2: He's a businessman. So, you know, there's no wage that 92 00:05:13,020 --> 00:05:14,860 S2: I can see that he's going off to. And yet 93 00:05:14,860 --> 00:05:18,260 S2: he's extraordinarily rich. You know, there are houses in Bellevue 94 00:05:18,260 --> 00:05:21,700 S2: Hill and Chatswood and investments and and, you know, all 95 00:05:21,740 --> 00:05:23,859 S2: of this property in the Mid North Coast, a huge 96 00:05:23,900 --> 00:05:27,580 S2: amount of rural and bushland. So the question has become, 97 00:05:27,580 --> 00:05:30,620 S2: where is this money coming from? Felix Lee maintains it's 98 00:05:30,620 --> 00:05:33,020 S2: coming from his paternal grandmother and has nothing to do 99 00:05:33,020 --> 00:05:36,380 S2: with his dad, and therefore nothing to do with the 100 00:05:36,900 --> 00:05:41,340 S2: dubious funnelling of money through the Star City Casino. 101 00:05:41,580 --> 00:05:44,380 S1: Detail that to us detail what the allegations are that 102 00:05:44,380 --> 00:05:48,140 S1: that result from this previously confidential, as I understand it, 103 00:05:48,140 --> 00:05:52,300 S1: affidavit that was prepared by the Australian Tax Office in 2021. 104 00:05:52,300 --> 00:05:56,880 S1: Our masthead spent months trying to get their hands on this, essentially, 105 00:05:56,880 --> 00:05:59,800 S1: and I understand from this that tell me if I'm right. 106 00:05:59,839 --> 00:06:05,080 S1: Chief among the allegations are details about, quote, sham arrangements, unquote, 107 00:06:05,120 --> 00:06:09,040 S1: whereby purported loans from Phillips 92 year old mother, friends 108 00:06:09,040 --> 00:06:12,320 S1: and business associates were designed to conceal the true source 109 00:06:12,520 --> 00:06:15,080 S1: and character of the foreign income. So what does this 110 00:06:15,080 --> 00:06:17,800 S1: all mean? You know, why is this so bad, Lucy? 111 00:06:17,800 --> 00:06:18,479 S1: If it is. 112 00:06:18,600 --> 00:06:22,720 S2: Well, if it's a loan, it's arguably most usually it 113 00:06:22,720 --> 00:06:26,279 S2: is that it's it's not taxed as income. It's a loan. 114 00:06:26,279 --> 00:06:29,680 S2: You're going to be paying it back. So. Right. Most 115 00:06:29,680 --> 00:06:32,560 S2: of these transfers of money from Chinese accounts into Philip 116 00:06:32,600 --> 00:06:37,000 S2: Lee's family's accounts were purported to be loans. But when 117 00:06:37,000 --> 00:06:38,800 S2: the tax office went through and had a look at 118 00:06:38,800 --> 00:06:42,120 S2: some of these loans, they actually dispute that they are loans. 119 00:06:42,120 --> 00:06:45,160 S2: And in fact, they just say that this is a sham, 120 00:06:45,200 --> 00:06:46,920 S2: as you say, the sham arrangement. 121 00:06:46,920 --> 00:06:49,360 S1: So so just just to translate this, for those of 122 00:06:49,360 --> 00:06:52,020 S1: us who aren't familiar with moving money from country to country. 123 00:06:52,020 --> 00:06:56,659 S1: So essentially, the allegation is that the Lee family's wealth was, 124 00:06:56,700 --> 00:06:59,779 S1: I guess, partly created via a scheme that effectively moves 125 00:06:59,779 --> 00:07:04,100 S1: money into Australia from China. It's purported to be loans. 126 00:07:04,140 --> 00:07:07,340 S1: The Australian Tax Office questions whether they're loans. And as 127 00:07:07,339 --> 00:07:10,060 S1: I understand it, there's no suggestion by this masthead that 128 00:07:10,060 --> 00:07:12,540 S1: the allegations are true, only that they've been made. Is 129 00:07:12,540 --> 00:07:13,340 S1: that right? 130 00:07:13,380 --> 00:07:15,900 S2: That's right, that's right. So in some of the loans, 131 00:07:15,900 --> 00:07:20,260 S2: for example, a $25 million so-called loan from Philip's mother 132 00:07:20,260 --> 00:07:24,300 S2: in China, it was executed, you know, signed in Shanghai 133 00:07:24,300 --> 00:07:28,100 S2: and witnessed by Philip's sister. But as the tax office claims, 134 00:07:28,100 --> 00:07:30,620 S2: his sister was in Australia at the time, it's very 135 00:07:30,620 --> 00:07:33,900 S2: difficult to sign documents at that time. You know, DocuSign 136 00:07:33,900 --> 00:07:34,860 S2: wasn't a thing. 137 00:07:34,900 --> 00:07:38,980 S1: Okay. So we've got this information about these alleged loans 138 00:07:38,980 --> 00:07:42,020 S1: that the tax office. It seems to be suggesting might 139 00:07:42,020 --> 00:07:45,780 S1: not be loans to Phillip Lee from his elderly mother. 140 00:07:45,900 --> 00:07:49,380 S1: What relationship is there between those loans and Philip's son, 141 00:07:49,380 --> 00:07:53,200 S1: Felix Lee, who has allegedly then made this donation to 142 00:07:53,240 --> 00:07:54,120 S1: Anthony Albanese. 143 00:07:54,360 --> 00:07:57,200 S2: Well, look, Felix has separated himself out from his dad's 144 00:07:57,200 --> 00:08:00,000 S2: business and to all intents and purposes, as far as 145 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:02,880 S2: anyone could see, that is certainly happening. He's best known 146 00:08:02,880 --> 00:08:05,560 S2: for having the former treasurer of Australia, Joe Hockey, as 147 00:08:05,560 --> 00:08:09,320 S2: the chairman of his Lee family office, you know, which 148 00:08:09,320 --> 00:08:12,600 S2: is fairly reputable, I guess. But the issues that are 149 00:08:12,600 --> 00:08:17,000 S2: raised in this is that Felix is Phillips son. He 150 00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:20,160 S2: was raised here and he lives, you know, next door 151 00:08:20,160 --> 00:08:24,360 S2: to his parents in the details that the ATO have itemised. 152 00:08:24,400 --> 00:08:27,280 S2: When he was younger, the funds that were brought out 153 00:08:27,280 --> 00:08:33,680 S2: to Australia via his grandmother, Felix's grandmother, were actually moved 154 00:08:33,679 --> 00:08:36,359 S2: into his account to pay for some of the property 155 00:08:36,360 --> 00:08:41,560 S2: in Sydney. So, for example, there was a Der opera 156 00:08:41,760 --> 00:08:45,200 S2: purchased in Bellevue Hill, and the funds for that were 157 00:08:45,200 --> 00:08:51,020 S2: transferred from Philip's grandmother into Felix's bank account to pay 158 00:08:51,020 --> 00:08:53,980 S2: for the property. Of course, it wasn't such a great 159 00:08:53,980 --> 00:08:56,260 S2: deal for Felix, because when it was sold a few 160 00:08:56,260 --> 00:08:59,059 S2: years later, the $12 million, the vast majority of that 161 00:08:59,059 --> 00:09:03,459 S2: went into Philip's bank account. More recently, there's a sort 162 00:09:03,460 --> 00:09:06,300 S2: of pine plantation up on the mid-north coast now that 163 00:09:06,300 --> 00:09:10,739 S2: was bought using funds from his younger brother Edward's bank account. 164 00:09:10,740 --> 00:09:12,660 S2: I think he was 10 or 12 at the time, 165 00:09:12,660 --> 00:09:14,980 S2: certainly not old enough to be, you know, walking around 166 00:09:14,980 --> 00:09:18,300 S2: with $22 million. But that was used to buy it 167 00:09:18,300 --> 00:09:21,660 S2: for $22 million. Now, it was held by Philip and 168 00:09:21,660 --> 00:09:25,020 S2: his wife in their various corporate entities until last month, 169 00:09:25,380 --> 00:09:29,540 S2: when the property was transferred to Felix's Li family office. 170 00:09:29,540 --> 00:09:34,420 S2: So if nothing else, these sort of significant properties have 171 00:09:34,420 --> 00:09:37,500 S2: transferred from father to son on our paper trail. 172 00:09:44,179 --> 00:09:45,140 S1: After the break. 173 00:09:46,059 --> 00:09:49,689 S2: Does it by influence, you know, is there not good 174 00:09:49,690 --> 00:09:53,690 S2: reason why Anthony Albanese took time out from his life 175 00:09:53,690 --> 00:09:56,050 S2: to go to Point Piper and to have this dinner? 176 00:10:04,130 --> 00:10:08,370 S1: Okay. So we've got these allegations about, I guess, ways 177 00:10:08,370 --> 00:10:11,330 S1: in which the Lee family have made their money. And 178 00:10:11,330 --> 00:10:13,650 S1: I've got to say here, the Ato's allegations have led 179 00:10:13,650 --> 00:10:16,809 S1: to no criminal charges. Absolutely. They've never been tested in 180 00:10:16,809 --> 00:10:19,450 S1: any court. After the ATO and Phillip Lee reached a 181 00:10:19,450 --> 00:10:22,170 S1: settlement that included paying back part of the tax liability. 182 00:10:22,170 --> 00:10:25,330 S1: So I've got to got to set that straight. But 183 00:10:25,370 --> 00:10:27,450 S1: I guess with all of this in mind, why could 184 00:10:27,450 --> 00:10:30,450 S1: a donation to the Labor Party possibly be a concern? 185 00:10:30,730 --> 00:10:33,689 S2: Well, it depends on what sort of influence it takes 186 00:10:33,690 --> 00:10:37,210 S2: with it. Well, we've been raising a storm too recently 187 00:10:37,210 --> 00:10:40,850 S2: when Gina Rinehart gifted a private jet to Pauline Hanson 188 00:10:40,850 --> 00:10:43,209 S2: to go around the country and talk. But does it 189 00:10:43,210 --> 00:10:47,390 S2: by influence, you know, is there not good reason why 190 00:10:47,790 --> 00:10:50,710 S2: Anthony Albanese took time out from his life to go 191 00:10:50,710 --> 00:10:53,069 S2: to Point Piper and to have this dinner? I mean, 192 00:10:53,110 --> 00:10:55,550 S2: it's about raising these questions and I think a little 193 00:10:55,590 --> 00:10:59,950 S2: bit more clarity and oversight or transparency about this is 194 00:10:59,950 --> 00:11:01,030 S2: what's needed. 195 00:11:01,030 --> 00:11:04,510 S1: I guess, further to that, does it possibly raise questions 196 00:11:04,510 --> 00:11:08,709 S1: about alleged foreign interference or, I guess more broadly, questions 197 00:11:08,710 --> 00:11:12,070 S1: about whether politicians should be more careful about where money 198 00:11:12,070 --> 00:11:12,750 S1: comes from? 199 00:11:12,990 --> 00:11:17,030 S2: Look, the foreign interference question was raised with another billionaire, 200 00:11:17,270 --> 00:11:22,110 S2: Huang Xiangmo, in Mosman. But his interests. I think this 201 00:11:22,110 --> 00:11:25,550 S2: is different. I think this is different. The fact is 202 00:11:25,550 --> 00:11:27,990 S2: Philip Lee doesn't go back to China. He doesn't base 203 00:11:27,990 --> 00:11:31,190 S2: himself there. He's based in Sydney. He's an Australian, has 204 00:11:31,190 --> 00:11:34,230 S2: been for 28 years. So I think it's a little 205 00:11:34,270 --> 00:11:37,230 S2: bit different. It's more a question of the influence that 206 00:11:37,230 --> 00:11:40,230 S2: is coming with this money from Felix. And I think, 207 00:11:40,350 --> 00:11:42,790 S2: you know, Felix is trying to set himself up and 208 00:11:42,830 --> 00:11:46,329 S2: establish his name. That's great. But I think that the 209 00:11:46,330 --> 00:11:49,010 S2: issue is, is where are these funds coming from that 210 00:11:49,010 --> 00:11:51,569 S2: are buying such influence? If they are. 211 00:11:51,809 --> 00:11:53,730 S1: And so, I guess, tell us a bit more about 212 00:11:53,730 --> 00:11:56,090 S1: Felix Lee and about the Lee family. You know, what 213 00:11:56,130 --> 00:12:00,290 S1: sort of influence could they be wanting perhaps? Are there certain, 214 00:12:00,330 --> 00:12:03,250 S1: you know, matters in which they might want to have influence? 215 00:12:03,370 --> 00:12:06,890 S2: Well, I don't know. When Mr. Albanese visited the house, 216 00:12:06,890 --> 00:12:10,210 S2: he probably didn't check title records on the way through. 217 00:12:10,250 --> 00:12:12,170 S2: It's sort of the only thing I would do. I 218 00:12:12,170 --> 00:12:14,130 S2: think I'm the only human in the world who would. 219 00:12:14,170 --> 00:12:17,290 S2: But if he had, he might have noticed the mortgage 220 00:12:17,330 --> 00:12:21,410 S2: on title. It was held by his own tax department as. 221 00:12:21,450 --> 00:12:24,850 S2: As security for the tax dispute that's been playing out 222 00:12:24,850 --> 00:12:27,650 S2: between Phillip Lee and the Tax Office. That dispute has 223 00:12:27,650 --> 00:12:31,810 S2: since settled. And while Phillip Lee's properties, including this House, 224 00:12:31,809 --> 00:12:35,050 S2: were frozen a few years ago, those freeze orders have 225 00:12:35,050 --> 00:12:38,610 S2: been discharged and there is a settlement of sorts over 226 00:12:38,610 --> 00:12:41,250 S2: the tax dispute. It's just not known how much they 227 00:12:41,530 --> 00:12:44,230 S2: have settled that a bank account for. But the fact 228 00:12:44,230 --> 00:12:48,190 S2: remains that the ATO remains in control of Philip Lea's 229 00:12:48,350 --> 00:12:52,590 S2: property empire and his wife's property empire, and so. Does 230 00:12:52,590 --> 00:12:55,070 S2: he need any help with that, I don't know. Is 231 00:12:55,070 --> 00:12:58,110 S2: he hoping for a little bit of. I don't know. Look, 232 00:12:58,150 --> 00:13:01,870 S2: to be honest, he's a very private and reclusive businessman. He. 233 00:13:02,270 --> 00:13:04,310 S2: I'm yet to get an answer to a call or 234 00:13:04,309 --> 00:13:06,910 S2: a text. And it's been a decade. 235 00:13:06,950 --> 00:13:08,469 S1: Okay. And I do want to ask, though, you know, 236 00:13:08,510 --> 00:13:12,030 S1: if it took our mastheads months of fighting with the 237 00:13:12,030 --> 00:13:16,310 S1: courts to release these previously secret affidavits, which do sort of, 238 00:13:16,350 --> 00:13:19,030 S1: I guess, lift the lid off a bit of mystique 239 00:13:19,030 --> 00:13:22,990 S1: which has surrounded, as I understand it, Philip Lea's financial dealings. 240 00:13:22,990 --> 00:13:25,390 S1: Like you say, he's a private businessman. Could our Prime 241 00:13:25,390 --> 00:13:29,270 S1: Minister have reasonably known before attending this lavish dinner party 242 00:13:29,550 --> 00:13:32,630 S1: about the allegations against Felix Lees father? 243 00:13:33,190 --> 00:13:36,469 S2: Look, I don't think it's reasonable necessarily. I don't want 244 00:13:36,470 --> 00:13:37,950 S2: to I don't want to sort of give anyone a 245 00:13:37,950 --> 00:13:41,390 S2: free pass. But is it reasonable that he knew about 246 00:13:41,390 --> 00:13:43,970 S2: the tax. He wouldn't have known. I'm sure he doesn't 247 00:13:43,970 --> 00:13:46,610 S2: go around to every single department in the federal government 248 00:13:46,610 --> 00:13:48,730 S2: and ask them how people are, you know, whether they're 249 00:13:48,730 --> 00:13:53,690 S2: paying their tax. He might not meet many people in 250 00:13:53,690 --> 00:13:56,930 S2: parts of Australia if he did. But that said, you know, 251 00:13:56,970 --> 00:14:00,450 S2: it isn't a secret that Phillip Lee's relations with the 252 00:14:00,450 --> 00:14:03,650 S2: authorities have been a bit fraught since he came here. 253 00:14:03,690 --> 00:14:06,530 S1: Is that right? Like, how well known has that been? And. 254 00:14:06,570 --> 00:14:09,290 S2: Well, I've written at least a half a dozen stories 255 00:14:09,330 --> 00:14:11,610 S2: again and again, I think I'm. I don't know if 256 00:14:11,610 --> 00:14:14,010 S2: people have been bored about hearing. But on the mid-north coast, 257 00:14:14,050 --> 00:14:19,170 S2: he owns a very significant waterfront bushland retreat at Farm Cove, 258 00:14:19,170 --> 00:14:20,890 S2: and he has owned it for a long time. There 259 00:14:20,890 --> 00:14:25,370 S2: has been a series of environmental breaches on it. Since 2009. 260 00:14:25,370 --> 00:14:29,450 S2: He has garnered the attentions of the state regulatory authorities 261 00:14:29,450 --> 00:14:31,690 S2: for some of the breaches there, and it was last 262 00:14:31,690 --> 00:14:34,850 S2: written about by me last year in regards to some 263 00:14:34,890 --> 00:14:37,610 S2: orders from the Land and Environment Court to restore parts 264 00:14:37,610 --> 00:14:40,250 S2: of the property. So that has all been on the 265 00:14:40,350 --> 00:14:41,310 S2: public record. 266 00:14:41,310 --> 00:14:43,350 S1: So I guess, is it a bad look for Anthony 267 00:14:43,350 --> 00:14:47,230 S1: Albanese to have attended this party and then accept the donation? 268 00:14:47,550 --> 00:14:49,750 S1: And do we even know if he has accepted a 269 00:14:49,750 --> 00:14:51,070 S1: donation from Felix Lee? 270 00:14:51,430 --> 00:14:53,910 S2: Look, we don't know. The question is, you know, given 271 00:14:53,910 --> 00:14:56,590 S2: the lack of transparency, you know, it would be good 272 00:14:56,590 --> 00:14:58,150 S2: to know and it would be good to know what 273 00:14:58,150 --> 00:15:00,310 S2: comes with it, what strings are attached at the back 274 00:15:00,310 --> 00:15:03,030 S2: of it. The reality is, you know, his office has 275 00:15:03,030 --> 00:15:05,270 S2: said that it will be disclosed and in the appropriate 276 00:15:05,270 --> 00:15:08,070 S2: channels at the appropriate time, and not at the email 277 00:15:08,070 --> 00:15:13,150 S2: or calls of Lucy Macken. So yeah, but so anyway, 278 00:15:13,150 --> 00:15:16,670 S2: but the reality is this should have been better known, 279 00:15:16,670 --> 00:15:19,910 S2: I guess, beforehand. And now we do know and he knows. And, 280 00:15:19,950 --> 00:15:22,510 S2: you know, if he was thinking why this might not 281 00:15:22,510 --> 00:15:24,790 S2: be a good idea, he doesn't have to go back 282 00:15:24,790 --> 00:15:27,630 S2: too far in time to the fortunes of our state 283 00:15:27,630 --> 00:15:32,110 S2: governments as to how this stuff plays out, when donations 284 00:15:32,110 --> 00:15:34,550 S2: are made and there's a lack of transparency over them. 285 00:15:34,550 --> 00:15:36,990 S1: And are you thinking of any particular scandal? 286 00:15:37,030 --> 00:15:40,570 S2: Lucy Macken Well, there was a certain Aldi bag that 287 00:15:40,570 --> 00:15:41,730 S2: was full of cash. 288 00:15:42,010 --> 00:15:45,090 S1: Well, it's funny you mentioned this because you did mention, yes, 289 00:15:45,130 --> 00:15:48,410 S1: that there was this incident. It was quite public. I 290 00:15:48,410 --> 00:15:50,170 S1: guess it was made quite public. I believe it was 291 00:15:50,170 --> 00:15:53,970 S1: 2019 and there was a corruption inquiry into the state's 292 00:15:53,970 --> 00:15:54,810 S1: donation laws. 293 00:15:54,850 --> 00:15:56,570 S2: Yeah, ICAC was damning about it. 294 00:15:56,570 --> 00:16:00,490 S1: That's right. After Chinese billionaire Zhang Mo, who you mentioned before, 295 00:16:00,810 --> 00:16:05,290 S1: he had delivered $100,000 in cash in an Aldi plastic bag. 296 00:16:05,290 --> 00:16:08,570 S1: So I guess, is that why this is sort of 297 00:16:08,730 --> 00:16:11,370 S1: perhaps such a interest? 298 00:16:11,690 --> 00:16:15,330 S2: Look, every case is actually different, and I'm not sure 299 00:16:15,330 --> 00:16:18,490 S2: I wouldn't actually go so far as to say foreign influence. 300 00:16:18,490 --> 00:16:22,090 S2: It's just unknown influence with all of these donations. And 301 00:16:22,450 --> 00:16:26,850 S2: it's crossed the political spectrum, right? I mean, when Simon Holmes, 302 00:16:26,850 --> 00:16:30,330 S2: a court is funding the teals through climate 200, you know, 303 00:16:30,370 --> 00:16:33,010 S2: there are questions raised there. How much say does that 304 00:16:33,010 --> 00:16:35,770 S2: give him in the policies of our teals? Likewise, as 305 00:16:35,770 --> 00:16:40,350 S2: we've mentioned, Gina Rinehart with Pauline Hanson. Clive Palmer likes 306 00:16:40,350 --> 00:16:41,790 S2: to have a little bit of a say in the 307 00:16:41,790 --> 00:16:44,790 S2: political process and isn't afraid to pay for it, and 308 00:16:44,790 --> 00:16:47,070 S2: none of the major parties are exempt from this. At 309 00:16:47,070 --> 00:16:48,230 S2: a state or a federal level. 310 00:16:48,230 --> 00:16:50,590 S1: And so, I mean, as a last question, Lucy, is 311 00:16:50,590 --> 00:16:53,910 S1: that ultimately why you reported on this? Why this matters, 312 00:16:53,910 --> 00:16:56,710 S1: why it's important for us to know where money is 313 00:16:56,710 --> 00:16:59,670 S1: being donated, where it comes from, when people are donating 314 00:16:59,710 --> 00:17:02,270 S1: to our political parties, and why the public should know, like, 315 00:17:02,310 --> 00:17:02,990 S1: is this why? 316 00:17:03,350 --> 00:17:05,389 S2: Well, look, if you take it back to a very 317 00:17:05,390 --> 00:17:09,430 S2: basic level, when vast amounts of money come into the 318 00:17:09,430 --> 00:17:14,150 S2: country and they are spent resetting, you know, values, in 319 00:17:14,150 --> 00:17:16,830 S2: a way, it might just be non-waterfront records, you know, 320 00:17:16,869 --> 00:17:19,790 S2: in Point Piper of ten years ago, right? It might 321 00:17:19,790 --> 00:17:22,430 S2: be houses in Chatsworth. It might be, you know, the 322 00:17:22,430 --> 00:17:25,710 S2: reason we have public access to tidal records is because 323 00:17:25,710 --> 00:17:28,110 S2: it speaks to where the money and the power and 324 00:17:28,109 --> 00:17:30,990 S2: the wealth is in our society and where it is not. 325 00:17:31,390 --> 00:17:33,790 S2: And without that sort of clarity as to what sort 326 00:17:33,790 --> 00:17:35,750 S2: of money and where it's coming from, that's paying for 327 00:17:35,750 --> 00:17:38,210 S2: this stuff. We don't do well from it. We don't 328 00:17:38,210 --> 00:17:42,090 S2: we don't have a clear oversight of ourselves as a society. 329 00:17:42,130 --> 00:17:44,810 S2: You know, the economics at some point needs to feed 330 00:17:44,810 --> 00:17:47,930 S2: into us as a society to let us know who 331 00:17:47,930 --> 00:17:50,170 S2: we are and you know, who's on top and who 332 00:17:50,170 --> 00:17:53,129 S2: is not. And it all feeds into that. And I 333 00:17:53,170 --> 00:17:55,290 S2: hope to sort of sound simplistic about it all, but 334 00:17:55,290 --> 00:17:58,730 S2: that's what we're effectively talking about. And at a far 335 00:17:58,730 --> 00:18:03,090 S2: more advanced level. Yeah. When it's donations and it's coming 336 00:18:03,090 --> 00:18:06,010 S2: from 25 year olds, where is that 25 year old 337 00:18:06,010 --> 00:18:09,210 S2: getting the funds to do this? You know, what does 338 00:18:09,210 --> 00:18:12,570 S2: his grandmother do? At the end of the day, even 339 00:18:12,570 --> 00:18:16,010 S2: though we finally have a name and jobs and industries 340 00:18:16,010 --> 00:18:18,650 S2: in China. You know, that has funded the family wealth. 341 00:18:18,850 --> 00:18:22,609 S2: There's still a lot of questions that the ATO have 342 00:18:22,609 --> 00:18:26,210 S2: raised from this affidavit that remain unanswered. 343 00:18:27,970 --> 00:18:30,770 S1: Well, thank you so much, Lucy, for your time. 344 00:18:30,850 --> 00:18:31,650 S3: Thank you. 345 00:18:39,550 --> 00:18:41,990 S1: And just a note, Phillip Lee did not respond to 346 00:18:42,030 --> 00:18:45,830 S1: requests for comment from our mastheads. Asked about the Albanese dinner, 347 00:18:46,030 --> 00:18:49,110 S1: a spokesperson for his son, Felix Lee, said he would 348 00:18:49,109 --> 00:18:52,950 S1: not comment on private engagements and in relation to his father. 349 00:18:53,109 --> 00:18:56,230 S1: He said Philip Lee's tax affairs are his own and 350 00:18:56,230 --> 00:19:14,630 S1: are not related to Felix Lee. Today's episode was produced 351 00:19:14,630 --> 00:19:18,710 S1: by Josh towers. Our executive producer is Tammy Mills, and 352 00:19:18,710 --> 00:19:22,630 S1: our podcasts are overseen by Lisa Muxworthy and Tom McKendrick. 353 00:19:22,990 --> 00:19:25,830 S1: If you like our show, follow the Morning Edition and 354 00:19:25,830 --> 00:19:29,190 S1: leave a review for us on Apple or Spotify. Thanks 355 00:19:29,190 --> 00:19:29,949 S1: for listening.