WEBVTT - Matt Comyn: the extended interview 0:00:04.720 --> 0:00:06.480 The Australian Financial Review. 0:00:07.560 --> 0:00:10.479 Hello, and welcome to fifteen Minutes with the Boss. We've 0:00:10.480 --> 0:00:13.160 had such a great response to the episodes with Matt 0:00:13.200 --> 0:00:16.200 Common and Janine Allis that we've decided to play the 0:00:16.200 --> 0:00:20.120 extended version of both these episodes. This week, we're going 0:00:20.160 --> 0:00:22.680 to hear from Matt Common, the chief executive of Conwealth Bank. 0:00:23.040 --> 0:00:25.440 There were so many great takeaways that just didn't make 0:00:25.480 --> 0:00:28.120 the cut, so we hope you really like hearing a 0:00:28.160 --> 0:00:31.840 lot more of what Matt Common had to say. Please enjoy. 0:00:36.920 --> 0:00:39.000 Sometimes when you don't feel like it, it's also a 0:00:39.000 --> 0:00:41.560 really good sort of challenge. Again, I find it quite 0:00:41.560 --> 0:00:44.120 interesting when you're having a bad day, things have come 0:00:44.600 --> 0:00:47.720 off track, you don't feel as well prepared and sort 0:00:47.720 --> 0:00:50.080 of trying to embrace that to see, well, let's see 0:00:50.080 --> 0:00:50.520 what I've got. 0:00:50.600 --> 0:00:51.560 Yeah, that's fun. 0:00:53.960 --> 0:00:56.959 But when I started absolutely not like everyone and I 0:00:57.040 --> 0:00:58.880 was nervous, I was worried. 0:01:04.000 --> 0:01:04.200 Hi. 0:01:04.319 --> 0:01:07.919 I'm Sally Patton, Editor of Boss from the Australian Financial Review, 0:01:08.680 --> 0:01:16.520 and welcome to fifteen Minutes with the Boss, a podcast 0:01:16.560 --> 0:01:20.520 about success and failure and everything in between. And along 0:01:20.560 --> 0:01:23.280 the way we're aiming to get some great advice from 0:01:23.319 --> 0:01:27.320 our leaders. My guest today happily is Matt Common, the 0:01:27.400 --> 0:01:30.880 Chief Executive of the Comonwealth Bank of Australia. Hi, Matt, 0:01:30.920 --> 0:01:31.920 how's your day been so far? 0:01:32.160 --> 0:01:33.840 Very good? Great to be with you, excellent. 0:01:34.120 --> 0:01:37.720 Thank you for coming in now. Matt, as I said, 0:01:37.720 --> 0:01:40.959 you're the CEO of Commonwealth Bank, Australia's biggest bank, with 0:01:41.040 --> 0:01:44.000 the global staff of around fifty thousand people, which has 0:01:44.160 --> 0:01:47.120 quite a few to be in charge of. Last year 0:01:47.160 --> 0:01:50.440 you recorded a nine point eight billion dollar cash profit, 0:01:50.520 --> 0:01:53.280 of which you return some eight billion dollars to shareholders 0:01:53.280 --> 0:01:57.640 through dividends. You bank more than one in three Australians 0:01:57.680 --> 0:02:02.280 and my interesting slash fum fat is that you bank 0:02:02.480 --> 0:02:06.320 forty six percent of younger adults. That is a lot 0:02:06.360 --> 0:02:09.480 to be proud of. It Does it make you proud 0:02:09.520 --> 0:02:10.440 to hear those numbers? 0:02:10.760 --> 0:02:11.160 It does? 0:02:11.200 --> 0:02:13.920 I mean, I'm very lucky. I've been at CBA for 0:02:13.960 --> 0:02:17.160 more than two decades. It's been a wonderful life experience. 0:02:17.240 --> 0:02:20.880 I've you know, there's always ups and downs in any career, 0:02:20.880 --> 0:02:23.919 in job, but I've also worked with some amazing people 0:02:23.960 --> 0:02:26.320 over that time. And I'm you know, I'm proud of 0:02:26.360 --> 0:02:29.839 what the Commonwealth Bank does and the opportunity to lead 0:02:29.880 --> 0:02:30.680 it fantastic. 0:02:30.760 --> 0:02:35.440 Okay, let's get into it. The clock starts now. My 0:02:35.520 --> 0:02:38.960 first question is what does your morning routine look like? 0:02:39.040 --> 0:02:40.360 What time do you get up? What happens? 0:02:40.639 --> 0:02:43.000 So, no fixed routine, I don't have an alarm clock, 0:02:43.040 --> 0:02:46.839 but I'll generally wake up somewhere between around six early 0:02:47.000 --> 0:02:48.000 this morning, it was earlier. 0:02:48.160 --> 0:02:52.079 I basically will get up, exercise, go to work. 0:02:52.120 --> 0:02:54.880 And what does the exercise comprise of varies. 0:02:54.480 --> 0:02:58.519 This morning gym sometimes run, not so much cycling anymore, 0:02:58.560 --> 0:03:01.840 but probably exercise days. But if I don't have we've 0:03:01.880 --> 0:03:04.880 got something on, I will skip it. But I generally 0:03:04.919 --> 0:03:07.840 don't have a fixed schedule. I'm always in by a 0:03:07.880 --> 0:03:09.680 certain time, but I sort of when I wake up, 0:03:09.720 --> 0:03:12.040 I get up, and I don't seem to really ever 0:03:12.080 --> 0:03:12.480 sleep in. 0:03:12.760 --> 0:03:14.280 So what time do you get to the office by? 0:03:14.639 --> 0:03:16.880 Somewhere around sort of seven thirty ish? 0:03:17.120 --> 0:03:19.320 Okay, you're not particularly worried if you don't get your 0:03:19.360 --> 0:03:21.320 exercise in, and you sort of go with the flow 0:03:21.360 --> 0:03:21.760 a little bit. 0:03:22.040 --> 0:03:23.120 I mostly get it in. 0:03:23.240 --> 0:03:25.280 It'll only be if there's something I really feel like 0:03:25.800 --> 0:03:28.359 I can't, or I'm particularly tired, or I've had a 0:03:28.440 --> 0:03:32.120 late night. You know, sometimes it might be out two 0:03:32.240 --> 0:03:35.320 or three nights a week at different events or traveling. 0:03:35.400 --> 0:03:37.880 It's obviously harder when you're traveling, but I'm sort of 0:03:38.200 --> 0:03:41.880 managed across my schedule. I try to be probably exercising 0:03:42.000 --> 0:03:43.480 five days a week if I can. 0:03:43.760 --> 0:03:45.480 Okay. And are you a breakfast person? 0:03:45.760 --> 0:03:46.119 I am. 0:03:46.480 --> 0:03:51.160 I have a fairly regular routine, but not nothing particularly sophisticated. 0:03:51.160 --> 0:03:54.480 I have a protein shake and I have some fruit 0:03:54.840 --> 0:03:55.960 and a green juice. 0:03:56.040 --> 0:03:57.760 Okay. And are you a snacker? Does that last you 0:03:57.880 --> 0:03:58.480 to lunchtime? 0:03:58.720 --> 0:04:02.800 Most days occasion only, I'll have a snack, but not often. 0:04:03.120 --> 0:04:06.120 Okay, all right, My next question is tell me about 0:04:06.160 --> 0:04:09.400 a pivocial moment in your career that changed the trajectory 0:04:09.440 --> 0:04:12.680 of what you were doing or somehow changed even the way, 0:04:13.480 --> 0:04:16.799 somehow changed even what you wanted to be later on. 0:04:16.800 --> 0:04:19.960 One of them would definitely be POSTGFC. So we've been 0:04:20.000 --> 0:04:23.440 two thousand and nine and CBA was involved in well, 0:04:23.640 --> 0:04:27.000 a financial advice group in North Queensland had failed and 0:04:27.040 --> 0:04:30.240 a number of customers who had products with the Komwalf 0:04:30.240 --> 0:04:35.360 Bank and I was I volunteered to lead the remediation 0:04:35.600 --> 0:04:37.279 of that. So it was three and a half thousand 0:04:37.279 --> 0:04:39.760 people basically lost their life savings. 0:04:40.000 --> 0:04:40.760 I learned a lot. 0:04:40.920 --> 0:04:42.840 I mean, I dealt for the first time with the 0:04:42.839 --> 0:04:48.440 then CEO Ralph Board. I worked with a number of 0:04:49.000 --> 0:04:51.880 legal firms because the bank was being sued. I appeared 0:04:51.920 --> 0:04:55.520 in Parliament for the first time. I went and met 0:04:55.520 --> 0:04:59.400 with customers directly. I think you learn the importance of 0:04:59.400 --> 0:05:03.719 doing the difficul things yourself. You see the impact of 0:05:03.760 --> 0:05:07.680 when things go bad and leverage, and those customers were 0:05:07.800 --> 0:05:11.719 highly leaved and invested, obviously in a speculative at the 0:05:11.760 --> 0:05:17.520 time strategy which had worked spectacularly badly in the GFC. 0:05:18.120 --> 0:05:21.000 So I did that for most of two thousand and 0:05:21.800 --> 0:05:25.960 nine and it was a really unique experience that I 0:05:26.080 --> 0:05:30.480 learned a lot from, very very challenging, and you know, 0:05:30.680 --> 0:05:34.000 a number of those lessons I think I've taken with 0:05:34.279 --> 0:05:35.520 me throughout then. 0:05:35.720 --> 0:05:37.560 So what are the core things that you've taken with 0:05:37.600 --> 0:05:39.360 you from that time, Well. 0:05:39.160 --> 0:05:41.600 I mean, I think it's important. There's no substitute for 0:05:41.680 --> 0:05:45.880 firsthand experience. I remember after one of the customer events 0:05:46.520 --> 0:05:49.040 and I'd finished and talking on obviously some of the 0:05:49.080 --> 0:05:52.360 customers were very upset and angry, and my taxi had 0:05:52.360 --> 0:05:55.920 long since left, and one of the people that were 0:05:55.920 --> 0:05:57.600 there offered to give me a lift. I was staying 0:05:58.000 --> 0:06:01.599 in Brisbane, CBD, just talking to them about their life story. 0:06:01.640 --> 0:06:04.360 They'd lost everything and they'd retired. They having to go 0:06:04.480 --> 0:06:06.839 back to work. Mom was working as a part time 0:06:06.880 --> 0:06:09.920 in a subway store. I mean you see it up close, 0:06:10.480 --> 0:06:16.320 working and understanding all of the implications and consequences of that, 0:06:16.880 --> 0:06:19.479 trying to come up with the remediation. Like when something's 0:06:19.480 --> 0:06:22.720 gone wrong, don't be pushed to a concession. Get to 0:06:22.800 --> 0:06:26.120 the bottom of what actually happened. Say what happened. If 0:06:26.279 --> 0:06:29.400 you've done something wrong, try and fix it as swiftly 0:06:29.480 --> 0:06:34.520 and as fairly as possible. Really take a forensic approach 0:06:34.600 --> 0:06:38.920 to things. Have a level of professional skepticism. Don't accept 0:06:39.000 --> 0:06:42.640 what people say happened, not because anyone's trying to mislead you. 0:06:42.640 --> 0:06:46.360 I think it's very hard when something's gone wrong to 0:06:46.520 --> 0:06:49.320 necessarily sort of investigate and get to the bottom of 0:06:49.360 --> 0:06:51.640 something yourself. I think it's just human nature. You try 0:06:51.680 --> 0:06:55.520 to see things through a better lens than perhaps they are, 0:06:56.080 --> 0:06:58.839 So there is importance around sort of you know, independence 0:06:58.839 --> 0:07:02.040 of process, getting to the bottom of things. Dealing with 0:07:02.200 --> 0:07:05.960 very difficult and emotional circumstances. You know, I dealt with 0:07:06.000 --> 0:07:08.760 a major class action law firm at the time, which 0:07:09.080 --> 0:07:11.480 you know, probably conventional wisdom might have been that's going 0:07:11.560 --> 0:07:13.960 to be really challenging. But we tried to deal with 0:07:14.040 --> 0:07:16.720 them very fairly, and I thought they dealt with us 0:07:16.840 --> 0:07:19.760 very fairly. We got to an outcome I never felt. 0:07:20.120 --> 0:07:25.800 I think there's a way to build a relationship that's 0:07:25.840 --> 0:07:30.560 based on transparency and integrity, even with someone that might 0:07:30.640 --> 0:07:33.600 otherwise be seen as you know, an adversary at that 0:07:33.960 --> 0:07:36.280 at that point in time, and so I took I 0:07:36.320 --> 0:07:38.560 think I probably took a lot of confidence from that, 0:07:38.640 --> 0:07:41.720 from being exposed to something really really challenging. 0:07:41.800 --> 0:07:44.960 So what were you doing immediately before that role and 0:07:45.040 --> 0:07:46.760 did you put your hand up for the role or 0:07:46.760 --> 0:07:48.080 did someone tap you on the shoulder. 0:07:48.280 --> 0:07:51.600 I was running comseck and I put my hand up 0:07:51.640 --> 0:07:53.960 for the role. A number of people asked, why would 0:07:53.960 --> 0:07:55.040 you want to do that. 0:07:55.240 --> 0:07:56.000 I'm sure they did. 0:07:56.120 --> 0:07:58.800 I certainly didn't have any of the foresight. I mean, 0:07:58.800 --> 0:08:03.680 looking back, it's clear that was a really important period 0:08:04.040 --> 0:08:07.560 and a great opportunity. But I guess at the time 0:08:07.560 --> 0:08:10.360 of putting my hand up it was less obvious, but 0:08:10.440 --> 0:08:12.160 obviously I'm really glad I did. And I think it's 0:08:12.160 --> 0:08:17.480 really important about embracing opportunity and trying to do difficult things. 0:08:17.600 --> 0:08:21.600 I think when lots of leaders differentiate themselves over time, 0:08:22.000 --> 0:08:26.920 it's generally those who move towards the hard issues. They 0:08:27.000 --> 0:08:30.840 don't leave it to others. And that's obviously easy to say, 0:08:30.880 --> 0:08:32.640 but it's actually incredibly important. 0:08:32.679 --> 0:08:34.400 And was there a point where you thought you had 0:08:34.400 --> 0:08:36.360 bitten off maybe more than you could chew you? Because 0:08:36.400 --> 0:08:38.199 I guess that's also part of the learning. 0:08:38.000 --> 0:08:42.360 Right, absolutely so, yes, I mean at various all of 0:08:42.360 --> 0:08:44.200 those things. I think when you do something for the 0:08:44.240 --> 0:08:49.080 first time, it feels it can feel daunting. I think 0:08:49.160 --> 0:08:52.920 with the right mindset, you can gain both a lot 0:08:52.920 --> 0:08:55.680 of experience and confidence, and a lot of things become 0:08:55.800 --> 0:08:59.600 easier in life, and also from a career perspective after 0:08:59.640 --> 0:09:02.440 you've done them before, and really doing things that are 0:09:02.520 --> 0:09:07.480 challenging is so rewarding because a lot of other things 0:09:07.480 --> 0:09:11.160 that maybe seemed hard for you before then actually seem 0:09:11.200 --> 0:09:13.439 pretty easy, And a lot of things just get easier 0:09:13.480 --> 0:09:15.000 with time and experience. 0:09:15.200 --> 0:09:17.800 Yeah, it's good to know. My next question is what 0:09:17.920 --> 0:09:20.319 is the best piece of career advice you've ever been given. 0:09:20.679 --> 0:09:25.280 I mean, really embrace the opportunities that you're given. And 0:09:25.320 --> 0:09:28.319 that for me would have been a few years before 0:09:28.400 --> 0:09:31.560 that as a particular point when I was being asked 0:09:31.600 --> 0:09:33.640 to go and lead a piece of work which was 0:09:33.720 --> 0:09:37.760 comm see big technology project at CBA, and I didn't 0:09:37.800 --> 0:09:40.760 necessarily want to do it, but the person that I 0:09:40.920 --> 0:09:44.520 was working for, so it gave me that piece of advice. 0:09:44.800 --> 0:09:48.040 And ultimately part of that was, you know, he asked 0:09:48.040 --> 0:09:50.360 me at the time, do you trust me? And I said, 0:09:50.559 --> 0:09:54.440 I absolutely do and I did, and he was, you know, 0:09:54.520 --> 0:09:56.720 this is going to be really you might not think 0:09:56.760 --> 0:09:58.960 it is, it's going to be really good and important 0:09:58.960 --> 0:10:00.800 for you to do it. And and it taught me 0:10:00.840 --> 0:10:02.440 a lot because I think, you know a lot of 0:10:03.320 --> 0:10:06.559 times you see people that can be a little bit tentative, 0:10:07.280 --> 0:10:11.040 and you know, life comes with sort of unexpected opportunities 0:10:11.040 --> 0:10:13.200 and challenges, and I think if you're the sort of 0:10:13.240 --> 0:10:15.920 person that's really looking for a way to, you know, 0:10:15.960 --> 0:10:18.480 embrace an opportunity, there's so many different ways that you 0:10:18.520 --> 0:10:22.680 can learn. You know, you tend to be then I 0:10:22.720 --> 0:10:26.719 think rewarded with other opportunities as well. And you know, 0:10:26.760 --> 0:10:29.200 I've just found that there are so many ways to 0:10:29.400 --> 0:10:32.480 learn in life and in business and from other people 0:10:33.280 --> 0:10:35.240 as well. And so I think the sort of embracing 0:10:35.240 --> 0:10:39.760 opportunities with curiosity and trying to just continue to improve 0:10:40.320 --> 0:10:43.280 every day, it makes a huge difference that you know 0:10:43.600 --> 0:10:45.960 both that's a mindset as well as you know a 0:10:46.000 --> 0:10:48.120 determination to do both of those things. 0:10:48.240 --> 0:10:50.880 So when you're looking at those new opportunities and you're thinking, 0:10:51.520 --> 0:10:53.400 maybe I don't want to do that because it's a 0:10:53.440 --> 0:10:56.240 bit scary, how do you stop second guessing yourself and 0:10:56.440 --> 0:10:58.400 just forcing yourself to say, yes. 0:10:58.320 --> 0:11:00.480 It's important to be able to do that, and I do. 0:11:01.280 --> 0:11:06.040 I think it's important to have constructive self reflection and 0:11:06.120 --> 0:11:08.319 looking for the things that you can improve every day. 0:11:08.800 --> 0:11:12.920 But I don't ruminate, I don't second guess. And I 0:11:12.960 --> 0:11:16.520 see this sometimes people will ask about public speaking. I'm 0:11:16.559 --> 0:11:19.280 never the sort of person that's worried about what if 0:11:19.320 --> 0:11:21.520 I forget this or what if I just never allow 0:11:21.640 --> 0:11:24.520 my mind to go down those sort of paths. And 0:11:24.559 --> 0:11:28.160 some of that just comes from repetition. And so I 0:11:28.160 --> 0:11:29.800 think there's a point you've always just got to be 0:11:29.840 --> 0:11:33.600 prepared to commit and not look back. Like looking backwards 0:11:33.679 --> 0:11:36.600 is you know, regret thinking about all the things you 0:11:36.640 --> 0:11:37.880 could have or would have should have. 0:11:37.920 --> 0:11:38.400 Forget it. 0:11:38.760 --> 0:11:42.480 Just think about how you can take that forward. And 0:11:42.880 --> 0:11:45.320 I think that's a really important life skill. 0:11:45.480 --> 0:11:49.800 That is fantastic advice. No greats, don't look back, look forward. Yeah, Okay, Matt. 0:11:49.840 --> 0:11:52.560 On that note, that is the end of our first section. 0:11:54.160 --> 0:11:56.080 Don't go away. We're going to take a short break 0:11:56.160 --> 0:11:58.240 and when we come back, we're going to open our 0:11:58.280 --> 0:12:12.880 embarrassingly loath fire load tech chatterbox. Very good, welcome back 0:12:12.920 --> 0:12:15.559 to fifteen Minutes with the Boss. I'm here with Matt Common, 0:12:15.600 --> 0:12:19.040 the chief executive of the Commonwealth Bank. Now, Matt, this 0:12:19.240 --> 0:12:28.480 is our section called the Chatterbox. As threatened. In front 0:12:28.480 --> 0:12:32.000 of you is a really lovely brown, shiny cardboard box 0:12:32.320 --> 0:12:35.720 inside which are today, I think probably about ten fifteen questions. 0:12:36.040 --> 0:12:38.000 I'm going to ask you to have a bit of 0:12:38.040 --> 0:12:42.200 a shuffle around, pickut some and let's start. I get 0:12:42.200 --> 0:12:42.520 to read it. 0:12:42.559 --> 0:12:43.200 Thanks very much. 0:12:46.280 --> 0:12:49.559 Do you have a coping mechanism for high stress situations? 0:12:49.960 --> 0:12:52.360 Well, I think a couple of things are really important. One, 0:12:52.800 --> 0:12:56.240 I think being able to perform as well as possible, 0:12:56.240 --> 0:12:58.640 which also includes dealing with high stress. There's a lot 0:12:58.679 --> 0:13:03.080 of very conscious about sort of state. You know, good sleep, exercise, 0:13:03.480 --> 0:13:07.120 I think, trying to always put yourself in the right position. Secondly, 0:13:07.480 --> 0:13:11.920 I think look, dealing with stress gets easier with time. Thirdly, 0:13:12.000 --> 0:13:15.040 as I've seen and learned, you know, often things are 0:13:15.120 --> 0:13:19.600 not as bad as they first seen. Often the worry 0:13:20.080 --> 0:13:23.960 can be debilitating. So I think it's a sense of 0:13:25.040 --> 0:13:32.199 proportionality and being able to just work calmly through individual problems. 0:13:32.320 --> 0:13:35.240 And obviously that's the most important thing about dealing with 0:13:35.679 --> 0:13:38.600 difficult issues or stress. Just having a great team and something. 0:13:38.600 --> 0:13:40.240 It's a big part of my job is getting the 0:13:40.280 --> 0:13:42.640 right people in the right roles, working to their potential, 0:13:42.720 --> 0:13:46.160 working well together. You know, once you've got that, things 0:13:46.240 --> 0:13:49.280 are a lot less stressful. When you feel like you've 0:13:49.280 --> 0:13:51.680 got a great team around you, you've got great support. 0:13:51.720 --> 0:13:54.400 In my case from the board. You know, there's clarity, 0:13:54.520 --> 0:13:58.080 there's alignment. I feel like, you know, you can work 0:13:58.120 --> 0:14:02.360 calmly through any problem, like any any job and a 0:14:02.440 --> 0:14:05.800 situation in life. It can be it can be stressful, 0:14:05.800 --> 0:14:08.880 but I think with the right mindset and approach, there's 0:14:08.920 --> 0:14:10.840 always a way forward. 0:14:10.880 --> 0:14:13.600 Always so in terms of how much you sleep, and 0:14:13.640 --> 0:14:16.559 how much you exercise in your recovery time, and even 0:14:16.800 --> 0:14:18.640 what you put in your body. Do you measure those 0:14:18.679 --> 0:14:21.920 things or do you have a device to measure those. 0:14:21.880 --> 0:14:24.120 I have a couple of devices that measure those. Yes, 0:14:24.280 --> 0:14:27.920 I do like metrics, but I also you know, I 0:14:28.040 --> 0:14:32.440 if I've had a bad sleep, I won't necessarily watch 0:14:32.680 --> 0:14:35.200 too closely. I don't, so I'm sort of like trying 0:14:35.240 --> 0:14:37.960 to look at the averages and how I'm going over time. 0:14:38.200 --> 0:14:42.480 I've sort of stepped back from looking at as closely 0:14:42.560 --> 0:14:45.240 every single day as I would have a few years ago, 0:14:45.280 --> 0:14:48.760 because I think it cann be a little bit self reinforcing, 0:14:48.840 --> 0:14:51.200 or as I think most things in life, if you're 0:14:51.200 --> 0:14:55.760 doing the right things consistently over a long period of time, 0:14:55.920 --> 0:14:59.280 the benefits really really compound. So like I would never 0:14:59.320 --> 0:15:01.920 worry about the one bad night or that I'll all 0:15:01.960 --> 0:15:04.680 mean the few but you just know, you know, like 0:15:04.760 --> 0:15:07.680 compound interest, if you just keep doing the right things 0:15:08.160 --> 0:15:11.160 month in month out, it makes a huge difference. 0:15:11.360 --> 0:15:13.040 Sleep is a really big thing at the moment. Do 0:15:13.040 --> 0:15:14.520 you have a sleep goal? Do you know how many 0:15:14.960 --> 0:15:16.160 hours you like to get I. 0:15:16.120 --> 0:15:20.600 Do I try to get seven. Yeah, I measure that 0:15:20.640 --> 0:15:23.600 in a couple of ways. I'll get less certain days 0:15:23.600 --> 0:15:26.520 of the week versus I'll try to e which you 0:15:26.520 --> 0:15:28.480 can't actually catch up on sleep, but you know, just 0:15:28.560 --> 0:15:31.400 it's easier to sleep on a weekend night. I tend 0:15:31.400 --> 0:15:33.320 to probably not sleep as well on a Sunday night. 0:15:33.440 --> 0:15:36.120 And I'm just sort of used to the pattern. And 0:15:36.200 --> 0:15:40.840 also I just try to manage my load physically mentally 0:15:41.200 --> 0:15:43.760 so that I'm kind of if I've got something that's 0:15:43.800 --> 0:15:46.560 really really hectic that's coming up, I'll try to ease 0:15:46.640 --> 0:15:48.880 back a little bit to give myself a bit of 0:15:48.880 --> 0:15:52.520 a rest beforehand. And likewise I try to Yeah, I 0:15:52.520 --> 0:15:54.000 guess I plan pretty carefully. 0:15:54.200 --> 0:15:56.680 And when it comes to exercising, are you real type A? 0:15:57.000 --> 0:15:58.320 Do you push yourself a lot? 0:15:58.520 --> 0:16:01.000 I like to push myself. I mean, as I've gotten older, 0:16:01.360 --> 0:16:04.920 I don't exercise for I mean I'll train for maybe 0:16:04.960 --> 0:16:09.040 an hour. I won't do four hours. You know, i'd 0:16:09.080 --> 0:16:12.000 do a ten k run. I'd never do a marathon now, 0:16:12.120 --> 0:16:15.440 you know. I just it's diminishing returns. It's I don't 0:16:15.480 --> 0:16:20.680 think it's super healthy and it's too fatiguing. So I 0:16:20.800 --> 0:16:21.440 just try to get there. 0:16:21.480 --> 0:16:22.720 Do I have a day job I. 0:16:22.640 --> 0:16:24.120 Do alongside my family. 0:16:24.160 --> 0:16:27.680 That's I'm optimizing for my work, and so I'm trying 0:16:27.680 --> 0:16:30.400 to do everything I can to be healthy and in 0:16:30.440 --> 0:16:33.040 the best condition possible so I can perform as best 0:16:33.080 --> 0:16:33.400 I can. 0:16:33.560 --> 0:16:33.760 Yeah. 0:16:33.800 --> 0:16:36.120 No, that's really good advice. Okay, have another fish in 0:16:36.160 --> 0:16:40.880 the chatterbox. Let's see what turns up. Do you like 0:16:41.040 --> 0:16:43.640 public speaking and have you always liked it? 0:16:43.920 --> 0:16:47.920 I certainly haven't always liked it. I doubt many people have. 0:16:48.520 --> 0:16:49.640 I do now. 0:16:50.240 --> 0:16:55.040 Because I mean, realistically, I communicate for a living. Sometimes 0:16:55.080 --> 0:16:58.600 I feel like I answer questions for a living, And 0:16:59.120 --> 0:17:01.640 I mean a big part of when you're leading people 0:17:01.760 --> 0:17:07.200 is being able to communicate clearly hopefully inspire, but also 0:17:08.000 --> 0:17:12.439 you know, try and reach the audience, and you know, 0:17:12.520 --> 0:17:15.919 often think that it's not always most people can't remember 0:17:15.920 --> 0:17:20.160 what you say. Obviously that dissipates relatively quickly, but many 0:17:20.200 --> 0:17:23.360 people can remember what it felt like when you were talking. 0:17:23.720 --> 0:17:25.439 And I think, you know, I've just done a lot 0:17:25.480 --> 0:17:29.000 of it, and so the repetitions make it easier, means 0:17:29.000 --> 0:17:32.720 that you enjoy it more. I prefer I mean, I 0:17:32.720 --> 0:17:34.480 don't like I wouldn't like to be an MC at 0:17:34.520 --> 0:17:34.919 a wedding. 0:17:35.160 --> 0:17:35.920 But I like SPA. 0:17:36.080 --> 0:17:37.880 But I thought that's a lot easier than what you do. 0:17:38.359 --> 0:17:41.600 No, I just sort of I like structure. I don't 0:17:41.640 --> 0:17:44.760 mind doing a speech. I think, like anything, if you 0:17:45.440 --> 0:17:48.240 don't have a mindset that you enjoy it and you 0:17:48.359 --> 0:17:50.960 try to do a really good job and think about 0:17:51.000 --> 0:17:53.040 like what do I really I think intent is so 0:17:53.160 --> 0:17:55.600 important what I want to get out of this, you know, 0:17:55.640 --> 0:17:57.359 I don't sort of stumble into things. 0:17:57.440 --> 0:17:58.720 I'm sort of you've thought about it. 0:17:58.760 --> 0:17:58.920 Part. 0:17:59.040 --> 0:18:01.840 I want to think about Italy and then I just 0:18:01.960 --> 0:18:05.440 try to push everything else out of my mind. Right 0:18:05.440 --> 0:18:07.800 before I go on stage, I've got routine and then 0:18:07.880 --> 0:18:11.000 I just start and I don't second guess. I don't 0:18:11.040 --> 0:18:14.920 like over react if I don't know whatever an alarm 0:18:15.040 --> 0:18:18.240 goes off or something, because I've done it so many times. 0:18:19.000 --> 0:18:21.960 With that comes a degree of confidence that you know 0:18:22.000 --> 0:18:25.520 you can you can do it well, and sometimes when 0:18:25.560 --> 0:18:27.520 you don't feel like it. It's also a really good 0:18:27.520 --> 0:18:30.280 sort of challenge again, because sometimes I think it's less 0:18:30.320 --> 0:18:34.560 about how well you might do something when you're feeling 0:18:34.600 --> 0:18:37.280 great and everything's going you know, it's actually I find 0:18:37.280 --> 0:18:39.000 it quite interesting when you're you know, you're having a 0:18:39.000 --> 0:18:42.639 bad day, things have gone off track, you don't feel 0:18:42.640 --> 0:18:46.080 as well prepared, and sort of trying to again embrace that. 0:18:46.080 --> 0:18:48.000 To see, well, let's see how much I can do. 0:18:48.119 --> 0:18:48.920 Let's see what I've got. 0:18:49.000 --> 0:18:52.639 Yeah, and I think that's that's fun. And so you 0:18:52.800 --> 0:18:56.320 bet when I started, absolutely not. I mean, like everyone, 0:18:56.480 --> 0:18:59.600 I was nervous. I was, you know, I was worried 0:18:59.720 --> 0:19:02.840 about about that. But I don't know how many times 0:19:02.880 --> 0:19:06.040 I've spoken in public, but a lot, so it's something 0:19:06.080 --> 0:19:08.879 that I've certainly grown to enjoy. 0:19:09.119 --> 0:19:11.520 I have seen you a lot in the public on stages, 0:19:11.560 --> 0:19:15.040 and I think you're terrific. What's your routine beforehand? Do 0:19:15.040 --> 0:19:17.480 do you have a breathing exercise or do you stand 0:19:17.560 --> 0:19:19.959 up with your shoulders back or some people have you know, 0:19:20.119 --> 0:19:21.320 all sorts of different routines. 0:19:21.520 --> 0:19:23.720 I just want a little bit of quiet before I 0:19:23.840 --> 0:19:27.240 go on stage. So if I'm going to speak, you know, 0:19:27.480 --> 0:19:31.160 I would like like a minute or two and I 0:19:31.280 --> 0:19:34.320 will just consciously try to push everything. You know, I 0:19:34.359 --> 0:19:36.520 won't be trying to remember, oh, here's the thirteen different 0:19:36.520 --> 0:19:38.159 points I need to make in the next eight minutes. 0:19:38.680 --> 0:19:41.400 I'll just try and you know, just breathe and relax 0:19:41.960 --> 0:19:46.800 and then start. You know, I'm a big believer in routines. 0:19:46.840 --> 0:19:50.080 I think, you know, in professional sport and things as well. Actually, 0:19:50.480 --> 0:19:52.120 you know, if you talk to someone who, let's say, 0:19:52.200 --> 0:19:54.840 is an opening bats person, like the one of the 0:19:54.880 --> 0:19:57.439 ways that they teach people to not get nervous at 0:19:57.480 --> 0:19:59.600 the opening ball of the first test is you know, 0:19:59.640 --> 0:20:02.280 to have a routine. So I am and I have 0:20:02.320 --> 0:20:07.400 different routines. If on different days that are important, I'll 0:20:07.440 --> 0:20:09.960 do a certain set of things. And I think that 0:20:10.080 --> 0:20:13.119 just gives you a sense of comfort and consistency. 0:20:13.480 --> 0:20:15.800 Oh I love that. Okay, next question, should we have another? Go? 0:20:15.960 --> 0:20:16.160 Sure? 0:20:18.760 --> 0:20:22.119 Do you have a favorite productivity hack to help you 0:20:22.160 --> 0:20:23.120 get more out of your day? 0:20:23.440 --> 0:20:29.680 Probably two related one. I generally think email is as 0:20:29.720 --> 0:20:33.520 certainly as a sending device, a grotesque waste of time. 0:20:34.000 --> 0:20:36.760 I'd hope I send probably the fewest number of emails 0:20:36.800 --> 0:20:39.040 as any CEO. I mean, i'd do less than. 0:20:38.920 --> 0:20:39.680 Five per day. 0:20:40.400 --> 0:20:40.720 Wow. 0:20:40.920 --> 0:20:43.000