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Speaker 1: Answering your own questions here. I know because you're bad

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Speaker 1: at these questions.

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Speaker 2: If I've clicked to someone that was better at the questions,

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Speaker 2: I'd let the answer.

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Speaker 2: Our dear.

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Speaker 1: In short, they helped turn tech from a headache into

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Speaker 1: a strategic asset. And we're back. Well, we were almost back.

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Speaker 1: But Mike, what time will we online?

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Speaker 2: Can you mummy? Well we were set to start at

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Speaker 2: three pm. It's three point fifty two now.

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Speaker 1: Somebody is an hour eight? Leave our listeners guessing who

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Speaker 1: was an hour a It's three fifty two in what city?

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Speaker 1: Not know where I am. It's not exactly three am.

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Speaker 2: I don't want to be the person to burst your bubble,

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Speaker 2: but Melbourne is not quite the center of the universe.

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Speaker 2: So you know what I have to do. I have

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Speaker 2: to take the Trump approach to life, which is like

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Speaker 2: never never given in to, never surrender, always go on

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Speaker 2: the attack. Somehow the problem is yours. Somehow you've caused

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Speaker 2: this problem. And you know who he learned that from. Yes,

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Speaker 2: I forgot the guy's name because I watched that movie

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Speaker 2: The Apprentice.

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Speaker 1: Great movie Roy Cone and never admit defeat, which Trump

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Speaker 1: is offtenly taking the hearts about how wrong he is.

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Speaker 1: He never missed defeat, So yeah, clearly you're a ro

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Speaker 1: Cone disciple as well.

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Speaker 2: Some people have said to me, or I say some people.

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Speaker 2: Two people have said to me in private. Actually Trump

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Speaker 2: is not like that at all, and in fact, he's

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Speaker 2: quite warm and very interested in talking to people and

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Speaker 2: is not bombastic and is not the public persona that

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Speaker 2: he has at all.

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Speaker 1: Is the ultimate showman. Even his detractors, I think, will

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Speaker 1: admit that he's a great showman. How good was that

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Speaker 1: Apprentice movie that Jeremy Strong who played Roy Cone? That

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Speaker 1: is one of the I thought he was unluckyenugh to

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Speaker 1: get Oscar and that was an incredible performance. So Jeremy

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Speaker 1: Strong from a succession, that was a phenomenal movie in

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Speaker 1: a great performance.

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Speaker 2: Cann't say the fact that I watched that movie means

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Speaker 2: you know where? I watched that movie?

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Speaker 1: On a plane presumably, of course it's only one place

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Speaker 1: I would watch a movie. And now this has known

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Speaker 1: that it's obviously pretty early where you are. I think

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Speaker 1: it's eight. It's always nine o'clock now, but where are you?

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Speaker 1: Can you tell us what's happening?

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Speaker 2: Yes, I can tell her. I'm in Tel Aviv. It's

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Speaker 2: twenty six and sunny. The irony is I mean, I

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Speaker 2: feel like I'm on the defensive here, which is like

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Speaker 2: the roy Cone the other run. The irony is any

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Speaker 2: day except today. I got to start a recording hours ago.

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Speaker 2: It was just a particular issue last night. But yes,

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Speaker 2: I'm in Tel Aviv. It's twenty six and sunny. It's

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Speaker 2: a great vibe. And you know, it's as I always say,

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Speaker 2: it's completely completely different here to what it's like when

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Speaker 2: you're looking at the news. Someone said to me the

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Speaker 2: other day, I'm thinking of coming with my family in September.

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Speaker 2: Is it safe? And I don't really like to tell

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Speaker 2: people it's safe, or it's not for me to make

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Speaker 2: the call. But what I said to them is, if

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Speaker 2: you surveyed everybody in tel Aviv, now foreigners, locals, Israeli's, Arabs, whoever,

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Speaker 2: you surveyed and said do you feel safe here? You

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Speaker 2: wouldn't even finder point one percent of people that's say

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Speaker 2: they don't feel safe here. So that's how it feels here. Obviously,

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Speaker 2: he's very much at war. Still, there's a lot of

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Speaker 2: people have been caught up at the moment. What's the

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Speaker 2: feeling like safety aside. What's the vibe, what's the feeling

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Speaker 2: is that positivity? Is there still a lot of sort

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Speaker 2: of anger at ant Nyahu which feels to be rising.

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Speaker 2: What's the sort of political environment, like, well, you know,

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Speaker 2: I hate Nadaniyahu. I think like most of the country

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Speaker 2: hates him, but it's not the day to day conversation

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Speaker 2: that people speak about. There's far fewer soldiers walking around

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Speaker 2: the streets, and when I was here a few months ago,

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Speaker 2: there's fewer off duty soldiers like just wandering around with

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Speaker 2: assault rivals. It definitely feels calmer. You know, they've got

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Speaker 2: a new system here for missiles, which is that a

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Speaker 2: few minutes before a siren might sound there's a missiles

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Speaker 2: fired from Yemen, so it's two thousand kilometers away. It's

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Speaker 2: amazing they picked them up so early. They have this

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Speaker 2: other siren, and that's on a siren. It's a tone

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Speaker 2: on a special app on your phone that will say

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Speaker 2: to you there might be a siren coming, there's a

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Speaker 2: missile that's been fired. We're going to shoot it down.

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Speaker 2: We'll see where the pieces are going to and might

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Speaker 2: be in any of these areas. So I had one

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Speaker 2: of those. I had an experienced that before. It's pretty new.

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Speaker 2: Talking to my son about it, he's totally relaxed. He said,

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Speaker 2: he's in triple digit sirens, well into triple digits, and

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Speaker 2: the thing is that tone goes off. And I said

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Speaker 2: to him, let me just use the bathroom and we'll

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Speaker 2: get stuff ready and maybe if the siren goes, we'll

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Speaker 2: go to the shelter. And so it did go off.

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Speaker 2: Three minutes later we went to the shelter. It's such

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Speaker 2: a relaxed experience. It sounds crazy, but like all of

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Speaker 2: the stress has been taken out of the process by

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Speaker 2: that early notification. It's great, you're there for a couple

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Speaker 2: of weeks. I'm there for a few weeks, so then

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Speaker 2: I keep traveling and do some catapult stuff. So yeah,

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Speaker 2: it's nice. I mean, it's nice to be I'm not

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Speaker 2: a lover of cold. I know you love skiing or

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Speaker 2: that might be a topic that we can't discuss now. Well,

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Speaker 2: I think you're probably over it, right, it's looking good, right,

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Speaker 2: so like, so, you know, I don't love the cold.

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Speaker 2: So traveling around springtime in northern Hemisphere is very nice,

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Speaker 2: very lovely.

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Speaker 1: So it must be quite warm now in telling me, I imagine.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's twenty six, twenty seven, it's sunny every day.

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Speaker 2: You know, it doesn't rain for six months or if

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Speaker 2: it's spread and it's just there's no rain, so every

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Speaker 2: day is blue skies. The beach was absolutely packed yesterday

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Speaker 2: in a Saturday's packed, so it's you know, I highly,

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Speaker 2: highly highly recommend we should do a Contrarians trip once

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Speaker 2: the war finishes. We should do a Contrarians trip and

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Speaker 2: take people that want to come and see a whole

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Speaker 2: lot of high tech stuff over here, because you know,

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Speaker 2: I keep meeting sports tech in particular, but also general stuff.

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Speaker 2: It's next level, it's unbelievable.

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Speaker 1: Very keen to get back. I've got a quiz for you.

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Speaker 1: I'm very excited about this quiz. Do you know what

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Speaker 1: came out on Friday? You're in Israels, so maybe you

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Speaker 1: missed it. But what came out Friday? Oh, I have

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Speaker 1: no idea. Tell me, well, the AFR Rich List.

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Speaker 2: Oh I did see that, and I did say the

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Speaker 2: Steenshelt there looks like a bit of overlap on stories

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Speaker 2: that I saw in The Australian.

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Speaker 1: Looked like, as John quick to point out, it looked

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Speaker 1: like I've been lifted from his issue six months earlier,

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Speaker 1: about half half the Afah.

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Speaker 2: I'm sure. Look, and you know we should say we're

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Speaker 2: joking because we know the AFAR. I think Orlanders does

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Speaker 2: the rich List, and she works like super it's a

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Speaker 2: night me to put these lists together. So I think

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Speaker 2: she's going to be at a disadvantage when the person

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Speaker 2: who put together the rich list for so many years

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Speaker 2: moves somewhere else and then she has to put out

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Speaker 2: a rich list second. So I did read don't you know,

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Speaker 2: I don't love these lists, but I did read a

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Speaker 2: couple of interesting stories in there, and I thought she

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Speaker 2: did a great job with it. Yeah she did.

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Speaker 1: And John has like a whole year to pair his

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Speaker 1: and Julanda. This is sort of a a psyche for her,

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Speaker 1: I think. So I think she'd a great job. I

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Speaker 1: think this is great. Well, I really love was. There

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Speaker 1: was an article which basically, if you when you had

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Speaker 1: this interactive sort of thing, you go through went really quick,

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Speaker 1: but I kept pausing it. You can go through the

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Speaker 1: rich lists basically since it started, which is forty one

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Speaker 1: years ago. So I basically went and I had a

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Speaker 1: top ten. So I had a top ten over the

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Speaker 1: last forty one years. So I'm going to ask you something.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to build a quiz based on this top

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Speaker 1: ten through the years.

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Speaker 2: You know, I'm going to do poorly on this because

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Speaker 2: these lists like hats off to the people that put

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Speaker 2: them together, and then you know, they sell really well

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Speaker 2: and they get lots of subscriptions. So I'm not in

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Speaker 2: any way being disparaging of this, Like I think it's

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Speaker 2: a great work to put them together, but this is

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Speaker 2: probably the least interesting part of business for me, like

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Speaker 2: rich people and who's richer and who's poorous. So I'm

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Speaker 2: going to I just caveat is I'm going to try

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Speaker 2: and answer these questions like Donald Trump because I'm clueless,

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Speaker 2: but I'm going to try and go on the offensive. Okay,

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Speaker 2: I'm gonna I'm not gonna be defensive anymore. Go give

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Speaker 2: me the questions. Let's do it well. I actually want

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Speaker 2: to love about it. Richly isn't the people itself. It's

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Speaker 2: as we talked about it, It's.

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Speaker 1: A symbol of the times and a lot of these questions.

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Speaker 1: It's basically this is less about the list itself and

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Speaker 1: more about what this the rich list At certain times symbolized,

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Speaker 1: so that gives me going to remember the go go

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Speaker 1: eighty So firstly started eighty four.

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Speaker 2: Let me begin the quiz by saying, just to get

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Speaker 2: into the theme, nobody has done more for the rich

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Speaker 2: list than I have. Now I'm in the Trump moment.

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Speaker 1: Okay, it's the beautiful list. So I reckon this could

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Speaker 1: be an error. Who do you reckon?

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Speaker 2: Was number one?

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Speaker 1: On the very third according to this is eighty four.

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Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure this is wrong.

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Speaker 2: So what year? What do you reckon this list? Reckons?

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Speaker 2: So it's not Kerry Packer because you wouldn't be saying

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Speaker 2: that if he was at the top of the list

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Speaker 2: in eighty four.

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Speaker 1: It was to Yeah, they had him as number two,

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Speaker 1: so I reckon it was Kerry Packer. And then person

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Speaker 1: I having number one. I reckon this is the type.

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Speaker 1: But who do you reckon they had a number one?

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Speaker 1: Had you heard of this person?

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Speaker 2: Yes? But not ever he's been the richest person in Australia.

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Speaker 2: So I think this is right. If you'll will say

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Speaker 2: who is there is someone who used to be at

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Speaker 2: the top of the list or very very high up

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Speaker 2: I'd never even heard of. Tell me who it is

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Speaker 2: and I'll say, if this is the person that I.

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Speaker 1: Was, they had this guy called Reg Withers, who Yes,

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Speaker 1: that's who I'm thinking of. Oh do you think? Okay,

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Speaker 1: I reckon this is a mistake because seven eleven was

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Speaker 1: never wasn't worth three undred million bucks in eighty four.

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Speaker 2: But anyway, forget reag for a second. He's he's the one.

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Speaker 2: He started seven eleven right, yeah, in the in Australia. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I think I think he was at the top of

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Speaker 2: the rich lists because I was shocked to go back.

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Speaker 2: It's very weird.

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Speaker 1: I didn't even know who he was, and then I

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Speaker 1: had read about him a couple of years ago and

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Speaker 1: he passed away not that long ago. At the other

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Speaker 1: nine how many many? You can name your name already, Carrica.

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Speaker 2: So it was Rupert Murdock, still Australian at that point

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Speaker 2: in time. Yes, he was.

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Speaker 1: He was just half to carry. How you got you've

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Speaker 1: got one and two? Who's number four?

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Speaker 2: Frank Lewie's probably there?

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Speaker 1: Loewey Non the list came on later, much later. He

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Speaker 1: came about three years later.

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Speaker 2: This is so this is pre Alan Bond Christopher's case time,

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Speaker 2: isn't it?

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Speaker 1: One was definitely around but he isn't on this list

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Speaker 1: for some reason. Skase isn't on the list either. Kerry

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Speaker 1: Stokes later, No, he's much later, much much later.

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Speaker 2: We got John Gandal. Is he on there yet? Dandal? Yes?

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Speaker 1: Number four, Bang got it, okay, and Beson decon number seven.

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Speaker 2: So we're going for like rag trades, I guess.

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Speaker 1: So you've gut, she got quit. You've got more than

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Speaker 1: I thought one. I think you will not get number

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Speaker 1: five stand.

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Speaker 2: Parent property developer.

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Speaker 1: Perth property guy who I'm pretty sure I owned the

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Speaker 1: Perth worldcats.

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Speaker 2: That actually brought from him. After him was Richard Pratt. Oh,

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Speaker 2: I can't believe I didn't say Richard Pratt. That's a

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Speaker 2: terrible miss. That was as horrible.

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Speaker 1: So Kerry Packert two hundred ruper Murdock one fifty, And

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Speaker 1: think think of how low given Gina now is thirty

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Speaker 1: eight billion, how much lower this this is only forty

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Speaker 1: years ago. So what was the top? Was the top

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Speaker 1: one fifty? Reg Withers was number one on three hundred. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but then he fell away, so it's just nor edge. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: Kerry Packer, he was two hundred million, and this is

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Speaker 1: forty years ago. Gina's now forty billions, so Gina's two

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Speaker 1: two hundred times.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, what Kerry was in forty years?

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Speaker 1: So Kerry's two hundred, Rupe at one fifty, Gangal at

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Speaker 1: one twenty seven million, stanm Pery in one twenty, Proud

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Speaker 1: at ninety, Beaston at eighty six. George Hursku who either

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Speaker 1: went to jail or went bankrupt.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I remember George Hurscue. Yeah, he ran away. He

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Speaker 2: was like charged and ran away to Poland or something,

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Speaker 2: didn't he Yeah?

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Speaker 1: LJ who he was? He was a fugit l J.

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Speaker 1: Hooker for memory. He stuck around a while. David Haynes,

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Speaker 1: who was a hedge, fun guy gentlemen. And John Roberts,

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Speaker 1: the Multiplex founder. Yeah, Multiplex guys. His son saw it,

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Speaker 1: saw the list and his son was involved in the

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Speaker 1: minreds stuff.

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Speaker 2: Do you have the bottom of the list or just

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Speaker 2: the top?

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Speaker 3: No?

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Speaker 2: I only showed top ten ten because the interesting thing is, like,

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Speaker 2: what did you need to get onto that list? I

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Speaker 2: think that I remember when I was a kid, so

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Speaker 2: eighty four, because I was very very young, it's too

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Speaker 2: early for me to remember, but like let's say late

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Speaker 2: eighties ninety, I think he might have needed forty million

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Speaker 2: dollars to get onto the bottom of the list. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely, I think it was maybe like ten or fifteen

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Speaker 1: to get on back then.

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Speaker 2: But also it's not it's not just inflation. I know,

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Speaker 2: you know this, like it's worth saying. It's not just inflation. Fundamentally,

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Speaker 2: Australia is a much much richer country today than it

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Speaker 2: was back then. People just were not as rich, you know,

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Speaker 2: as they are today back then, and the big part

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Speaker 2: of that is the minerals boom and China's rise has

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Speaker 2: made Australia very rich. Australia is a much poorer country

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Speaker 2: in the eighties and nineties, as you would remember as well.

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Speaker 1: Eighty seven was a fascinating list because this is obviously

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Speaker 1: this is the year of the crash, but this is

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Speaker 1: pre crashed. I think usually used to listen like April,

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Speaker 1: so I think eighty seven pre crash.

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Speaker 2: These are all crazy characters. So like Bond is there, Ok,

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Speaker 2: let's go through. Packer is still number one though, right.

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Speaker 1: Right, Packer number one, he's gone to one point three billions,

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Speaker 1: so Packer is six x.

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Speaker 2: Because this list was the BW Rich List in these days,

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Speaker 2: it was called of course, yeah, THEW list. I remember,

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Speaker 2: I don't know what year it was. It was probably

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Speaker 2: before eighty seven, but it might have been eighty seven,

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Speaker 2: could be eighty six that Packer became a billionaire and

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Speaker 2: the list just had this entry and it just said

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Speaker 2: the billionaire and it just had Kerry Packer.

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Speaker 1: Do you know who the first billionaire in Australia was?

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Speaker 2: Well, I thought it was him.

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Speaker 1: I think it was Robert High whims of Court. I

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Speaker 1: think it was Kerry pack and homes are caught second.

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Speaker 1: Kerry Packer definitely was in eighty seven, so he's one

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Speaker 1: point three billion, massive gap. Who was number two in

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Speaker 1: eighty seven? We just mentioned him. It was homes got two.

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Speaker 1: Then George Hursky. George Hursky, Wow, this guy incredibly he

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Speaker 1: was the second. It was worth four sixties today's they

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Speaker 1: were just like Friday five billion. This is this guy.

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Speaker 1: Then fled to Polward like two years later. So what

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Speaker 1: an incredible downfall.

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Speaker 2: This is all basically like we can put a whole

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Speaker 2: lot of people in this category. You've got her Skew,

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Speaker 2: you've got Bond, you've got Scase, all people who built

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Speaker 2: these empires based on mountains of debt in a crazy

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Speaker 2: rising stock market doing insane m and a illegal things

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Speaker 2: along the way like it was. I mean John Elliott

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Speaker 2: was very rich at one point.

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Speaker 1: I don't know, it was never rich. That was the whole,

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Speaker 1: the whole thing. John he never had any really any

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Speaker 1: equity and elders. He was bank by the bar. That

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Speaker 1: was why he did this whole And I'm going to

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Speaker 1: there's a little side note, there's a great, great segue.

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Speaker 2: I'm going to bring up something someone else.

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Speaker 1: But the reason Elliot for Elliott's downfall, he wanted to

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Speaker 1: try and get an equity taken Elders. He tried to

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Speaker 1: take it over. And mean we did that famous BHP

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Speaker 1: Cross shareholding. Yes, two people on this nineteen eighty seven

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Speaker 1: list were involved in that BHP Cross shareholding. Can you

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Speaker 1: name those two people? One went to jail and one

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Speaker 1: didn't go to jail but got charged with stuff later on.

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Speaker 2: The guys that I don't know that we're in and

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Speaker 2: floating around this is a guy called Ape Goldberg. But

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Speaker 2: I don't think he was on this list. I think

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Speaker 2: he was an operator of somebody else's staff. And so

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Speaker 2: I don't know.

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Speaker 1: Goldberg was much lower, He was much lower. He may

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Speaker 1: have don on lest who much works on. So two people.

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Speaker 1: One was a guy called Alan Hawkins. Do you remember

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Speaker 1: that the Hawk? No?

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Speaker 2: I never heard of him nothing. He was New Zealand.

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Speaker 1: I think it was possibly the richest man in New Zealand.

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Speaker 1: He somehow was on the Australian list, you know, he

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Speaker 1: was the ninth richest for two seventy two million. He

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Speaker 1: actually went to jail for finance illegally financing Elliott's BHP raid.

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Speaker 2: Half the people went to jail, did I mean not literally,

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Speaker 2: but there was a lot of dodgy stuff going on

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Speaker 2: at this moment in history.

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Speaker 1: Well that's another question I've got for you. Bet So

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Speaker 1: Hawk went to jail for financing this Elders thing. He

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Speaker 1: went to jail in New Zealand. Actually, and the person

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Speaker 1: who also financed this guy called Richard Pratt, who we

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Speaker 1: just talked about, who was number eight on the lid.

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Speaker 1: He then obviously got famous and got charged for the

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Speaker 1: cartel stuff sort of twenty years later. But Pratt almost

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Speaker 1: also almost got done for this. So there was so

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Speaker 1: this list is fascinating. This this eighty seven list had

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Speaker 1: one too three five people who are crooks? Can you

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Speaker 1: name the five.

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Speaker 2: Crookh well, Skase is on the list, herskw is on

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Speaker 2: the list that cases.

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Speaker 1: No, I'm not including Skace. Skase wasn't top ten bond

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Speaker 1: bond bond was number three, three ninety million. He obviously

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Speaker 1: went to jail.

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Speaker 2: Perscu. We already said he was two, So he was two.

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Speaker 2: When you say a crook, you mean people that were charged,

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Speaker 2: but I mean he escaped, right, he went to jail.

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Speaker 1: I think we can safely say George Hosku's crook, and

403
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Speaker 1: his dads we can't sue us.

404
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Speaker 2: So, George Hoski, you're a crook. I don't know, do

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Speaker 2: you know? I don't know how you're so definitive about

406
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Speaker 2: these things. I don't know. Ida anyway, I remember he

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Speaker 2: didn't have a good reputation when I was a kid.

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Speaker 2: Let's just say that when you say crook, is this

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Speaker 2: like Adam Schwab thinks he is a crook or the

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Speaker 2: police and the authorities think they're a crook. Because the

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Speaker 2: first list is that could be a very long list.

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Speaker 2: I just want to say that that could be known

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Speaker 2: as the infinite list. Just about the final one.

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Speaker 1: It was Larry Adler, who obviously father of the Rodney

415
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Speaker 1: Rodney went to jail. Larry probably should have gone to

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Speaker 1: jail for the whole FAI stuff. Again, Larry, Dad can't

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Speaker 1: sue me, so good luck without Larry.

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Speaker 2: I forgot. I forgot about all of all of these things.

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Speaker 2: You know, was this the era of Hah and Fai.

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Speaker 2: That was two thousand. That was much later. I was

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Speaker 2: thirteen years later. That was later on.

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Speaker 1: Rodney really got a hospital handball from his dad. Like

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Speaker 1: it was an absolute basker case, and not that Rodney

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Speaker 1: was like the best operator, but it was a bit unlucky.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I remember I had this is later looking

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Speaker 2: a eighty seven, I'm talking probably nineties, my parents had

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Speaker 2: a home alarm by FAI insurance. And looking back on

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Speaker 2: the whole FAI situation now, I mean it's unlikely that

429
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Speaker 2: alarm was going to do much right, like exactly, mostly

430
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Speaker 2: just the riffing your generator. Okay, it's got a ninth

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Speaker 2: and eighty eight list eighty seven that was a crash.

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Speaker 2: Eighty eight looks totally different to eighty seven.

433
00:17:46,680 --> 00:17:49,080
Speaker 1: That looks quite different. Yeah, there's a few new names.

434
00:17:49,119 --> 00:17:51,240
Speaker 1: This is like Alan Bond was still hanging around number ten.

435
00:17:52,040 --> 00:17:54,760
Speaker 1: Packer increased his wealth, Haynes was still there. Pratt was

436
00:17:54,920 --> 00:17:58,160
Speaker 1: increased as well. Number four was a newcomer. So Solilu

437
00:17:58,600 --> 00:18:00,800
Speaker 1: is Frank chloly on this list, ye not he is.

438
00:18:01,600 --> 00:18:04,880
Speaker 1: Nineteen eighty eight top ten. Seven the top ten had

439
00:18:04,880 --> 00:18:07,639
Speaker 1: something in common? Can you name what that?

440
00:18:08,280 --> 00:18:10,879
Speaker 2: Eight? Seven of the top ten had something in common?

441
00:18:11,080 --> 00:18:14,280
Speaker 2: They hadn't They hadn't financed their empires with massive amounts

442
00:18:14,320 --> 00:18:17,320
Speaker 2: of debt and been wiped out in the crash.

443
00:18:17,600 --> 00:18:19,240
Speaker 1: No, that that may have been the case, but that

444
00:18:19,480 --> 00:18:20,280
Speaker 1: wasn't what I'm talking about.

445
00:18:20,359 --> 00:18:22,800
Speaker 2: It's too early for minerals still, so they can't have

446
00:18:22,840 --> 00:18:24,200
Speaker 2: that in common. Eighty eight.

447
00:18:24,440 --> 00:18:27,320
Speaker 1: Let mean, let me name them. Richard Pratt, Solomon lou

448
00:18:27,600 --> 00:18:31,919
Speaker 1: John Gandle, Frank Lowe, George Hursk, Harry Trigobov, Mark Beeson.

449
00:18:32,040 --> 00:18:34,320
Speaker 2: I'm very disappointed because I was trying to avoid saying

450
00:18:34,359 --> 00:18:36,560
Speaker 2: the obvious answer of what they have in common. I

451
00:18:36,560 --> 00:18:39,480
Speaker 2: hope they also have something else in common because I'm

452
00:18:39,520 --> 00:18:43,040
Speaker 2: trying to turn up the heat of anti Semitism in Australia.

453
00:18:43,240 --> 00:18:44,800
Speaker 1: Well, this is this is eighty eight, so it was

454
00:18:44,840 --> 00:18:46,520
Speaker 1: obviously a few years ago. So yeah, seven the top

455
00:18:46,560 --> 00:18:48,880
Speaker 1: ten of the Jewish faith, which is pretty incredible clearly

456
00:18:48,920 --> 00:18:51,159
Speaker 1: it's not the case. Now that's actually remarkable forgiven its

457
00:18:51,160 --> 00:18:52,560
Speaker 1: tot a point one per cent of the population.

458
00:18:52,720 --> 00:18:54,439
Speaker 2: And if you look at them again, so say them

459
00:18:54,440 --> 00:18:57,240
Speaker 2: one at a time. Richard Pratt was number three. That

460
00:18:57,320 --> 00:19:00,680
Speaker 2: wasn't a very unusual industry that he made his money in, right,

461
00:19:00,800 --> 00:19:04,560
Speaker 2: Like this is cardboard box manufacture, sickle, So that's a

462
00:19:04,760 --> 00:19:10,920
Speaker 2: huge outlier. Packer media, Haynes property investments, next cardboard boxes,

463
00:19:11,480 --> 00:19:14,920
Speaker 2: very weird. Next Solilu four he was maya back there,

464
00:19:14,960 --> 00:19:16,080
Speaker 2: so rag trade.

465
00:19:16,320 --> 00:19:20,639
Speaker 1: Five John Gandal whose property chatstds, rags and property.

466
00:19:20,680 --> 00:19:23,040
Speaker 2: Well we can say predominantly that chads and shopping center

467
00:19:23,080 --> 00:19:25,760
Speaker 2: is what trove his fortune. Number six Frank Lowe property.

468
00:19:25,880 --> 00:19:28,680
Speaker 2: So when was the whole Channel ten Frank Lowie, because

469
00:19:28,680 --> 00:19:32,200
Speaker 2: he brought Channel ten at one stage that was just after.

470
00:19:31,960 --> 00:19:34,040
Speaker 1: He actually lost a bunch of money in Channel ten.

471
00:19:34,080 --> 00:19:36,440
Speaker 1: This is just after that. I think that was early nineties.

472
00:19:36,800 --> 00:19:38,560
Speaker 1: Then can West brought it from him matter of fortune

473
00:19:38,600 --> 00:19:42,800
Speaker 1: basically Gandle Lowe shopping malls. That's how we concern and

474
00:19:42,840 --> 00:19:46,480
Speaker 1: Gandle one main shopping mall and Lowey lots of shopping malls,

475
00:19:46,480 --> 00:19:47,840
Speaker 1: like rolling out shopping malls.

476
00:19:48,080 --> 00:19:52,280
Speaker 2: Herscue number six amazing is hanging on, so property debt

477
00:19:52,400 --> 00:19:54,600
Speaker 2: and questionable practices.

478
00:19:55,359 --> 00:19:57,400
Speaker 1: Trigger bof this is I think could be Harry's first

479
00:19:57,440 --> 00:19:58,120
Speaker 1: or second appearance.

480
00:19:58,119 --> 00:20:01,720
Speaker 2: Second appearance. So this is the rye of residential property.

481
00:20:02,160 --> 00:20:03,720
Speaker 2: So this is the big I mean this, I think

482
00:20:03,720 --> 00:20:05,720
Speaker 2: in a way because the reason and I think the

483
00:20:05,800 --> 00:20:08,080
Speaker 2: industries are more interesting than the people, which is what

484
00:20:08,119 --> 00:20:11,200
Speaker 2: you're saying, I'm agreeing with you is or as Trump

485
00:20:11,200 --> 00:20:13,200
Speaker 2: would say, you're agreeing with me is even though you

486
00:20:13,200 --> 00:20:15,920
Speaker 2: said at first is that. So what you can see

487
00:20:15,960 --> 00:20:18,879
Speaker 2: from this with the industries is media is still huge.

488
00:20:19,400 --> 00:20:23,320
Speaker 2: I mean, pret's the outlier. We're now in the still

489
00:20:23,400 --> 00:20:25,720
Speaker 2: that I would say in a way like the tail

490
00:20:25,880 --> 00:20:27,800
Speaker 2: end of the rag trade because that's going to come

491
00:20:27,800 --> 00:20:30,320
Speaker 2: to an end with the lifting of tariffs in the nineties,

492
00:20:30,320 --> 00:20:32,119
Speaker 2: so the tail end of the rag trade, but the

493
00:20:32,240 --> 00:20:34,840
Speaker 2: rise of males, so the rise of males is still

494
00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:38,720
Speaker 2: is now picking up and trigger Boff is showing you

495
00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:42,080
Speaker 2: that we're about to enter the boom in residential property

496
00:20:42,240 --> 00:20:46,520
Speaker 2: driven by immigration and arise in residential prices. Mark Bason

497
00:20:46,640 --> 00:20:47,880
Speaker 2: in ninth Drag Rag Trade.

498
00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:51,880
Speaker 1: Obviously Suzanne originally partner with Gabal rag Trade number ten,

499
00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:54,760
Speaker 1: Alan Bond hanging in there. This is his last year.

500
00:20:54,800 --> 00:20:57,600
Speaker 1: I think before he what would you call him? Would

501
00:20:57,600 --> 00:21:00,960
Speaker 1: you call it media? A diversified The media was late

502
00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:03,840
Speaker 1: for him. He was Yeah, he was property originally and

503
00:21:03,880 --> 00:21:07,920
Speaker 1: then bier and then media and mining. He was a

504
00:21:07,920 --> 00:21:08,679
Speaker 1: bit of everything.

505
00:21:08,440 --> 00:21:11,960
Speaker 2: Really, And so what surprises me is that in eighty

506
00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:15,240
Speaker 2: seven eighty eight there were what two people from Perth

507
00:21:15,359 --> 00:21:18,280
Speaker 2: on this less Bond and Haines. Was he Perth? He

508
00:21:18,359 --> 00:21:19,919
Speaker 2: wasn't Perth? Was he? Or he was?

509
00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:20,040
Speaker 3: No?

510
00:21:20,160 --> 00:21:20,960
Speaker 2: Haines is Melbourne.

511
00:21:21,119 --> 00:21:24,120
Speaker 1: We Bond and Bond by then really was like his Perth.

512
00:21:24,240 --> 00:21:26,479
Speaker 1: He really had sort of moved to Sydney in many ways.

513
00:21:26,600 --> 00:21:29,720
Speaker 2: And so, I you know, there's this kind of historical

514
00:21:30,080 --> 00:21:33,000
Speaker 2: sounds like a myth. Now the eighty seven eighty six

515
00:21:33,119 --> 00:21:36,119
Speaker 2: eighty seven was like the wild West of Perth, et cetera.

516
00:21:36,240 --> 00:21:38,879
Speaker 2: But really they didn't make the top of this ritual list.

517
00:21:39,080 --> 00:21:42,439
Speaker 2: That's pretty much an Eastern States thing. You say that.

518
00:21:42,520 --> 00:21:44,760
Speaker 1: But number two in nineteen ninety one, who do you reckon?

519
00:21:44,800 --> 00:21:48,440
Speaker 2: That was? Is flash forward in three years. It was

520
00:21:48,520 --> 00:21:52,520
Speaker 2: a brief appearance, a brief appearance at number two. So

521
00:21:52,640 --> 00:21:54,840
Speaker 2: it's still too so it's a Perth person still to

522
00:21:54,920 --> 00:21:56,960
Speaker 2: a lifer Stokes. Is it Generon Hut's dad?

523
00:21:57,119 --> 00:21:58,920
Speaker 1: Maybe Lang was in the in the mid eighties, but

524
00:21:58,960 --> 00:21:59,719
Speaker 1: he was much lower.

525
00:22:00,440 --> 00:22:03,000
Speaker 2: I don't know who is it? Janet Holmes a court Ah,

526
00:22:03,040 --> 00:22:05,719
Speaker 2: that's right. Yes, let's flash forward again.

527
00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:08,879
Speaker 1: I want to go to nineteen ninety seven, so ten

528
00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:12,280
Speaker 1: years forward, So Kerry Packer had jumped to five billions.

529
00:22:12,359 --> 00:22:15,920
Speaker 1: This is pretty pressive rides from Kerry. This is the

530
00:22:15,960 --> 00:22:17,840
Speaker 1: start of the go go dot com here, right, this

531
00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:19,640
Speaker 1: is the very early days dot com. Here you see

532
00:22:19,640 --> 00:22:21,720
Speaker 1: a big increase in wealth even from sort of seven

533
00:22:21,800 --> 00:22:24,400
Speaker 1: years earlier. Who do you record was number two briefly

534
00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:25,119
Speaker 1: in ninety seven.

535
00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:28,119
Speaker 2: Well, there are a whole lot of booming businesses here,

536
00:22:28,119 --> 00:22:30,880
Speaker 2: but I'm trying to think about the crazy dot com

537
00:22:30,880 --> 00:22:33,439
Speaker 2: booming businesses that Australia were involved in. I mean, all

538
00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:35,680
Speaker 2: the sausage software stuff was still what us is ninety

539
00:22:35,720 --> 00:22:38,120
Speaker 2: seven still too early and also they were too low.

540
00:22:38,480 --> 00:22:42,000
Speaker 2: Who would have boomed up to number two? Interesting?

541
00:22:42,080 --> 00:22:44,840
Speaker 1: This is the only really dot comment and all the others.

542
00:22:45,359 --> 00:22:48,080
Speaker 1: This is Kerry Stokes's first appearance. Bori Leavingman made it

543
00:22:48,080 --> 00:22:49,960
Speaker 1: in there for the first time solely. So in there

544
00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:54,320
Speaker 1: this is the only I court dot com juvenentry and

545
00:22:54,359 --> 00:22:55,560
Speaker 1: I did not expect this.

546
00:22:55,880 --> 00:22:58,080
Speaker 2: I'm trying to think of the big Australian things that boomed.

547
00:22:58,160 --> 00:23:00,400
Speaker 2: Is it someone founder or is it some one who

548
00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:05,280
Speaker 2: invested in dot com stuff kind of founder because Evan

549
00:23:05,320 --> 00:23:07,760
Speaker 2: Thornley was way too low. Look looks mats later and

550
00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:10,520
Speaker 2: nowhere near as big as this. Not Evan.

551
00:23:10,640 --> 00:23:12,600
Speaker 1: No, I think Evan was on there, but I don't

552
00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:15,640
Speaker 1: think he was a high give me something. Harold Mitchell

553
00:23:15,840 --> 00:23:18,399
Speaker 1: two point three built the rise of Image, but I

554
00:23:18,440 --> 00:23:21,240
Speaker 1: don't think I been ninety seven. Well there you go

555
00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:23,280
Speaker 1: briefly on there. I think he was on there for

556
00:23:23,280 --> 00:23:25,240
Speaker 1: a year or so. Let's fast forward to two thousand

557
00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:27,920
Speaker 1: and two thousands, the absolute dot com boom. This is

558
00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:31,600
Speaker 1: less you weeks before the crash. Kerry Packer eight billion,

559
00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:36,320
Speaker 1: So think about that. That's equivalent of probably more than

560
00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:39,240
Speaker 1: Gina if you look at today. So had Kerry somehow

561
00:23:39,320 --> 00:23:41,560
Speaker 1: sold or and he couldn't have that was only owned,

562
00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:44,240
Speaker 1: remember had that Fairfax Digital things, They couldn't have actually

563
00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:44,560
Speaker 1: sold it.

564
00:23:44,720 --> 00:23:50,080
Speaker 2: He had nine MSSN and he had Ecorp.

565
00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:52,959
Speaker 1: Yeah, but he owned maybe he owned that stake in Fairfax.

566
00:23:53,160 --> 00:23:54,680
Speaker 2: Well, in the end they ended up he owned his

567
00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:58,480
Speaker 2: stake in Fairfax City, ended up listing separately on the ASX,

568
00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:01,280
Speaker 2: and the entire year call was just owning a stake

569
00:24:01,320 --> 00:24:02,640
Speaker 2: in Fairfax. Yep.

570
00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:05,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then emerge some other stuff in there. Men

571
00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:07,640
Speaker 1: ains wreath made an appearance top ten for the first time.

572
00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:08,679
Speaker 2: But yeah, look at that.

573
00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:11,639
Speaker 1: The packers then carry packer then is basically what James

574
00:24:11,680 --> 00:24:13,840
Speaker 1: Grelin ros are now. So it just shows how how

575
00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:15,760
Speaker 1: massive cars if you go to two thousand and five,

576
00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:17,560
Speaker 1: So five years later, someone appears on the list for

577
00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:19,120
Speaker 1: the first top ten for the first time.

578
00:24:19,160 --> 00:24:21,000
Speaker 2: Who do you think that was? Well, I think mining

579
00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:23,640
Speaker 2: is starting in two thousand and five, isn't it correct?

580
00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:25,520
Speaker 2: And so is that where Gina appears.

581
00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:29,840
Speaker 1: Gina enter Gina ryan Hart one point five billion, So

582
00:24:30,359 --> 00:24:32,480
Speaker 1: that's quite a rise. She could be from one point

583
00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:35,240
Speaker 1: five billion to forty billion in nineteen years.

584
00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:37,520
Speaker 2: Tell me the top ten quickly in two thousand and five,

585
00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:41,200
Speaker 2: let's see what industry is Frank Frank Lowe number one five.

586
00:24:41,520 --> 00:24:43,479
Speaker 2: We see the rise of males. So you know we

587
00:24:43,520 --> 00:24:45,960
Speaker 2: saw in the eighties when we did this in eighty

588
00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:48,959
Speaker 2: seven that males were coming rising, and we knew they

589
00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:51,360
Speaker 2: were going to continue, and so now we see what

590
00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:53,720
Speaker 2: males have actually done. Obviously he's invested in some other stuff.

591
00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:56,840
Speaker 2: He's a very strong investor, but the rise of males

592
00:24:56,960 --> 00:24:58,680
Speaker 2: has driven him to the top of the list.

593
00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:01,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, so you had Frank number one, and he hasn't

594
00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:03,040
Speaker 1: his wealth hasn't changed. I think he's ten billion now,

595
00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:05,200
Speaker 1: but Frank's wealth hasn't really changed that much in the

596
00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:05,960
Speaker 1: last twenty years.

597
00:25:05,960 --> 00:25:10,480
Speaker 2: Interestingly, so this is like peak retail before e commerce

598
00:25:10,600 --> 00:25:13,840
Speaker 2: has appeared in any meaningful way. So Maul's are everything

599
00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:15,440
Speaker 2: for retail at this point in time.

600
00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:17,879
Speaker 1: And then you've got Richard Pratt at five billion, so

601
00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:20,560
Speaker 1: Anthony Pratt's at sort of twenty billion now, so they

602
00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:23,600
Speaker 1: they're four x do well. So other than Gina and

603
00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:27,280
Speaker 1: of other than the mining titans, the Pratt family I

604
00:25:27,280 --> 00:25:29,879
Speaker 1: think has been and sorry Trigabof as well. Trigabof's done

605
00:25:29,920 --> 00:25:32,080
Speaker 1: incredibly well. He was two point three billion then and

606
00:25:32,119 --> 00:25:35,280
Speaker 1: now he's like thirty billion. So truger Bof's actually been

607
00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:38,040
Speaker 1: number one in terms of growing wealth outside mining. But but

608
00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:39,040
Speaker 1: Pratt's done incredibly well.

609
00:25:39,119 --> 00:25:39,399
Speaker 2: Well.

610
00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:42,600
Speaker 1: Then you had James Packer. It's called it five billion,

611
00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:44,560
Speaker 1: but Kerry was a two, so I think Kerry died

612
00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:46,560
Speaker 1: that year, so I'm not sure how that works. They

613
00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:49,840
Speaker 1: call it packers combined at seven. Harriet two, David Haynes

614
00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:54,879
Speaker 1: two point one. Shi Jeng Grang, the Chinese industrialist, was

615
00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:58,080
Speaker 1: a to Gandal at one point seven, Stokes one point six,

616
00:25:58,119 --> 00:26:00,200
Speaker 1: and he's a Gina at one point five in a

617
00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:01,199
Speaker 1: top ten taboo.

618
00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:03,600
Speaker 2: So it's interesting. So I would summarize that and say

619
00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:06,159
Speaker 2: the interesting things on that relative to a few you know,

620
00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:10,280
Speaker 2: two decades earlier, is how much Frank Loee broke away

621
00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:13,160
Speaker 2: from Gandal. So they're both shopping center people. But Frank

622
00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:18,320
Speaker 2: Lowe just exploded with Westfield. You know, Triggerbov's rise is

623
00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:21,200
Speaker 2: you know what we said earlier, We're now seeing immigration

624
00:26:21,359 --> 00:26:24,800
Speaker 2: flowing through heavily and this huge demand for residential apartments,

625
00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:27,840
Speaker 2: so he's growing. And what's interesting is, you know, as

626
00:26:27,840 --> 00:26:31,840
Speaker 2: we go forward twenty years from here and today, we're

627
00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:34,520
Speaker 2: going to see that owning malls is not the greatest

628
00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:36,440
Speaker 2: business in the world to be part of. And there's

629
00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:37,920
Speaker 2: a whole lot of tech people that are going to

630
00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:40,360
Speaker 2: rise and appear in the list. But it turns out

631
00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:43,840
Speaker 2: that making cardboard boxes gets even better when e commerce

632
00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:44,560
Speaker 2: comes around.

633
00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:46,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, and recycling, which.

634
00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:48,920
Speaker 2: Is a pretty incredible concept. Right, Like, there's all these

635
00:26:48,920 --> 00:26:51,159
Speaker 2: people on the list because one of the enduring themes

636
00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:52,720
Speaker 2: of this is going to be well, I'll tell you

637
00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:54,200
Speaker 2: something enjoying themes at the end. But you see the

638
00:26:54,280 --> 00:26:56,760
Speaker 2: rise and full of different industries here. But this cardboard

639
00:26:56,760 --> 00:27:00,159
Speaker 2: box thing. I mean, who knew like this cardboard box

640
00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:02,000
Speaker 2: thing was going to be like, you know, one for

641
00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:03,760
Speaker 2: the ages basically something.

642
00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:06,480
Speaker 1: Also shows the power that the success the prats have

643
00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:10,720
Speaker 1: had in going to the US and very companies Nix said,

644
00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:13,000
Speaker 1: take out the elastins and the canvas of global business

645
00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:15,000
Speaker 1: in day one. There's I don't think of any other

646
00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:17,480
Speaker 1: business other than the prats that are the VISI that

647
00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:21,600
Speaker 1: have done as well offshore in any from any Australian company.

648
00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:23,840
Speaker 1: They've executed so brilliantly off shore.

649
00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:26,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, agreed entirely.

650
00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:29,680
Speaker 1: I think two thousand and eight interesting GFC era.

651
00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:34,560
Speaker 2: Were there guys on there like Phil Green and who

652
00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:36,040
Speaker 2: was the one that tried to buy Quantas and then

653
00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:38,040
Speaker 2: he subsequently passed away. Like with these guys at the

654
00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:39,359
Speaker 2: top David.

655
00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:41,359
Speaker 1: They were both on the list, but not top not

656
00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:44,359
Speaker 1: top ten, top miles off the top ten. Right, they

657
00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:46,840
Speaker 1: were definitely on there though. Both are very wealthy and

658
00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:48,000
Speaker 1: Phil Green still is very well.

659
00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:50,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, who did like who did? Who? Did the GFC

660
00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:52,960
Speaker 2: blow up? Right? But it didn't. It didn't blow up

661
00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:54,399
Speaker 2: any of those top ten. I mean, I don't know

662
00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:56,359
Speaker 2: the Chinese guy, I'd never even heard of until you

663
00:27:56,400 --> 00:27:58,520
Speaker 2: just mentioned him. Now he came and left.

664
00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:01,800
Speaker 1: But think who well you said it a few years before,

665
00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:04,639
Speaker 1: but what was happening in a macro sense? What we

666
00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:08,119
Speaker 1: saw the rise of commodities, So how look if you

667
00:28:08,119 --> 00:28:09,560
Speaker 1: look how that impacted the list.

668
00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:11,200
Speaker 2: So you had Forest.

669
00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:14,080
Speaker 1: Andrew Forrest has come from pretty much not on the

670
00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:15,960
Speaker 1: list at all, or sorry, a couple of years ago,

671
00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:18,199
Speaker 1: he wasn't at all. He's come to number one. In

672
00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:21,040
Speaker 1: two thousand and eight he was five billion, Frank Choe

673
00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:24,440
Speaker 1: number two, So he's main number two, pack Her at three,

674
00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:27,320
Speaker 1: Gina at four, she's rising, Harry five, Gandal six.

675
00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:30,200
Speaker 2: Can you explain what Andrew Forest owned that Gina didn't

676
00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:32,680
Speaker 2: own in that year that put him at the top

677
00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:34,920
Speaker 2: and not her at the top. He's an iron ore guy,

678
00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:38,120
Speaker 2: basically right. Yeah, Fordesque was just.

679
00:28:38,120 --> 00:28:41,120
Speaker 1: A bit earlier and Gina was building roy Hill. I

680
00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:43,719
Speaker 1: think Gina gets like four billion dollars in dividends from

681
00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:45,880
Speaker 1: roy Hill now, So that's if you look at the

682
00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:47,760
Speaker 1: majority of her forty bill now thirty eight.

683
00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:49,840
Speaker 2: Billion all the well, can you believe somebody can have

684
00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:55,120
Speaker 2: four billion dollars of dividends and not figure out away

685
00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:58,800
Speaker 2: with all of that money to live happily with her children?

686
00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:01,120
Speaker 2: I mean, is that not the sad? That's what I

687
00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:03,280
Speaker 2: always say about having too much money, like it just

688
00:29:03,560 --> 00:29:07,040
Speaker 2: pass the threshold and like everybody wants a piece of

689
00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:09,880
Speaker 2: something and everybody feels aggrieved about not having more.

690
00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:11,920
Speaker 1: I was thinking about Gina. She's now I've got it

691
00:29:12,040 --> 00:29:14,360
Speaker 1: thirty eight now. But Gina is such an interesting case

692
00:29:14,360 --> 00:29:18,000
Speaker 1: because she doesn't like and understandably people say she inherited money.

693
00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:20,480
Speaker 1: She's not a found that to andertent, that's true to me.

694
00:29:20,640 --> 00:29:22,760
Speaker 1: She's almost a Tim Cook of Australia. So if you

695
00:29:22,760 --> 00:29:25,200
Speaker 1: look at Angela right, Lang Hong Kong and his partner

696
00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:29,120
Speaker 1: Peter Wright effectively shared the Hammersley sort of riches and

697
00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:31,360
Speaker 1: the sort of Peter Wright descendants are now worth fifteen

698
00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:33,920
Speaker 1: billion and obviously Gina's her and her kids are worth

699
00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:36,800
Speaker 1: fifty billion. So to me, Gina is the Tim Cook

700
00:29:36,800 --> 00:29:40,000
Speaker 1: of Australia. She took what was a struggling business that

701
00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:42,960
Speaker 1: Lang really had completely stuffed up and she turned into

702
00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:45,040
Speaker 1: a fifty to fifty billion So she's not She's the

703
00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:48,960
Speaker 1: classic unbelievable manager mode. So yeah, she didn't found the business,

704
00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:51,280
Speaker 1: but she really did turn that into a profit making

705
00:29:51,320 --> 00:29:53,239
Speaker 1: machine and Roy Hill was the driver of that. She

706
00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:54,920
Speaker 1: took a big risk with Roy Hill and people said

707
00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:57,040
Speaker 1: won't work, and she found a partner and she did

708
00:29:57,040 --> 00:29:59,920
Speaker 1: an incredible job. And like a lot of people don't

709
00:29:59,920 --> 00:30:02,480
Speaker 1: like Jena for up for various reasons, but in terms

710
00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:04,560
Speaker 1: of you look at sort of pure manager mode. For me,

711
00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:08,280
Speaker 1: she is the greatest wealth manager in Australia who isn't

712
00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:08,640
Speaker 1: a founder.

713
00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:11,440
Speaker 2: People mostly I think don't like her politics, right.

714
00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:15,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm absolutely politics. But what a incredible she was

715
00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:17,800
Speaker 1: three point six billion. Now she's obviously forty harry than

716
00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:18,680
Speaker 1: Harry John Gandel.

717
00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:20,640
Speaker 2: So two thousand and eight that was that you were

718
00:30:20,640 --> 00:30:24,440
Speaker 2: talking about, Like, that's interesting because finance people were never

719
00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:26,400
Speaker 2: really at the top of the list. I mean, David

720
00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:29,720
Speaker 2: Haynes is an investor, right, But like finance people like

721
00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:32,400
Speaker 2: money people, let's call it, were never at the top

722
00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:34,040
Speaker 2: of the list because McCarey Bank was not owned by

723
00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:36,160
Speaker 2: one person. If one person named maccorrey Bank, they'd be

724
00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:37,959
Speaker 2: at the top of the list. But it wasn't known

725
00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:38,680
Speaker 2: by one person.

726
00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:41,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, we had Kerneils who talked about last week in

727
00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:43,360
Speaker 1: two thousand and six. He was number six at two

728
00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:47,160
Speaker 1: point nine billion briefly, so he was an exception to that.

729
00:30:47,280 --> 00:30:50,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, he was the very very very early fund manager

730
00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:54,600
Speaker 2: that I guess gave you access to, like you know, well,

731
00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:57,240
Speaker 2: that's another theme I suppose, Like the thing is the

732
00:30:57,320 --> 00:31:00,720
Speaker 2: rise of superannuation is another massive wealth wealth generating the theme.

733
00:31:00,760 --> 00:31:02,480
Speaker 2: And we spoke about this and I realized I was

734
00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:04,160
Speaker 2: a bit too harsh on fund managers and I should

735
00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:05,920
Speaker 2: back people and say I liked them a lot, and

736
00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:08,840
Speaker 2: I especially like the ones who outperform and get paid

737
00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:11,920
Speaker 2: for outperforming. I'm just much colder on the ones that

738
00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:15,400
Speaker 2: get paid for underperforming. But like really pretty much all

739
00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:18,080
Speaker 2: of them. But that's the other thematic, right, which is

740
00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:20,640
Speaker 2: the rise of superinnuation has driven this rise of wealth.

741
00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:22,920
Speaker 2: But most of the fund managers that have made money

742
00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:26,080
Speaker 2: have made I would say between kind of fifty and

743
00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:29,080
Speaker 2: one hundred and fifty million dollars and so they're in

744
00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:31,160
Speaker 2: this happy place of not being on the rich list

745
00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:33,479
Speaker 2: but having tons of money. And so we don't have

746
00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:36,560
Speaker 2: finance people at the top. This is top ten only. Yes,

747
00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:38,360
Speaker 2: that's what I'm saying. We don't have finance people at

748
00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:38,920
Speaker 2: the top.

749
00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:41,240
Speaker 1: All those guys have like five six, seven hundred and

750
00:31:41,240 --> 00:31:45,640
Speaker 1: eight hundred million. Chris McKai magellan and he now he's

751
00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:48,360
Speaker 1: got his own one. They've done very well. Maybe Will

752
00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:50,640
Speaker 1: Vickers is one point three billion now. So there's been

753
00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:52,719
Speaker 1: some very very successful they just haven't quite made top ten,

754
00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:53,960
Speaker 1: but they've still done incredib.

755
00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:55,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, thats what I'm saying. So we don't have money

756
00:31:55,040 --> 00:31:56,840
Speaker 2: people in the top ten. And so two thousand and

757
00:31:56,880 --> 00:32:00,720
Speaker 2: seven eight is interesting because nobody drops doubt because of

758
00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:03,080
Speaker 2: the GFC because we didn't have just money people in

759
00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:05,480
Speaker 2: the top of their not the top ten. Yeah. Yeah,

760
00:32:05,480 --> 00:32:08,640
Speaker 2: everyone's stuck around, except now some resources are coming in,

761
00:32:08,680 --> 00:32:12,000
Speaker 2: but software people, tech people have not yet come in.

762
00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:13,480
Speaker 2: It's still too early for tech. Yeah.

763
00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:16,120
Speaker 1: And who was number one, two, three, four, five six,

764
00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:19,120
Speaker 1: Who was number seven, two and eight speaking commodities, his

765
00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:20,440
Speaker 1: first appearance in the top ten.

766
00:32:20,520 --> 00:32:22,880
Speaker 2: Hell, do I know a larger than life figure, a

767
00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:25,640
Speaker 2: larger than oh Clive Palmer.

768
00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:27,640
Speaker 1: Five Palmer two point six billion. This is when he

769
00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:30,240
Speaker 1: first hit the big time.

770
00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:32,600
Speaker 2: I didn't realize he was so rich for so long.

771
00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:34,640
Speaker 1: There you go, and he is, he's like twenty in

772
00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:38,480
Speaker 1: the twenty billions. Now he's gone right off with his

773
00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:39,480
Speaker 1: incredible cymic deal.

774
00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:42,280
Speaker 2: And when do Edlasian guys get onto the.

775
00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:44,959
Speaker 1: List to that they weren't a two thousand I think

776
00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:47,600
Speaker 1: of about twenty eighteen, maybe they come on around there

777
00:32:48,360 --> 00:32:50,400
Speaker 1: now that you see this year. Obviously Mike and any

778
00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:52,640
Speaker 1: have had they well split. So Mike has in our

779
00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:56,360
Speaker 1: twelve billion dollars each according to AFR, So that's and

780
00:32:56,400 --> 00:32:58,680
Speaker 1: Scott obviously still at twenty four so obviously combined their

781
00:32:58,720 --> 00:32:59,480
Speaker 1: forty eight billion.

782
00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:02,560
Speaker 2: Scott probably happy about that. Well, if you look at

783
00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:03,200
Speaker 2: if you.

784
00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:05,400
Speaker 1: Look at in terms of if you weren't to split,

785
00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:07,600
Speaker 1: dam so you if you caught the elassion, which is

786
00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:10,760
Speaker 1: that they'd be number one. So in terms of Gina

787
00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:12,680
Speaker 1: obviously is representing.

788
00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:16,240
Speaker 2: Her in terms of wealth from one individual. So yeah,

789
00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:19,040
Speaker 2: that's right, so wealth created by a business right and

790
00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:22,520
Speaker 2: split between founders. Yeah, I totally, I totally agree. Like

791
00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:25,160
Speaker 2: that is like Canva will end up being bigger than

792
00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:27,440
Speaker 2: a lession, although we spoke about all the challenges Canva has,

793
00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:29,480
Speaker 2: like it's I think it's time to sell. But who

794
00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:31,360
Speaker 2: Like Canva could be as big as the lesson, But

795
00:33:31,360 --> 00:33:34,040
Speaker 2: it's hard to imagine any other software business like Founders

796
00:33:34,040 --> 00:33:37,320
Speaker 2: getting any into the top ten in the next few years.

797
00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:39,520
Speaker 2: I think, you know, people get excited about this raising

798
00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:40,880
Speaker 2: that just I don't know if it's on your run

799
00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:42,800
Speaker 2: shehit or not, but this racing that just happened with

800
00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:45,840
Speaker 2: the air Wallacks, but those founders are getting nowhere near

801
00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:47,920
Speaker 2: the top ten no matter what happens to that business

802
00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:48,200
Speaker 2: in my.

803
00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:50,080
Speaker 1: View, isn't on the run sheets. She shows how closely

804
00:33:50,120 --> 00:33:52,600
Speaker 1: you've looked at the run sheet. Congratulations Jack and the team.

805
00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:54,520
Speaker 1: That's a monster. I think it's like, what is it

806
00:33:54,560 --> 00:33:59,080
Speaker 1: a nine billion dollars Australian valuation now and interesting Blackbird

807
00:33:59,280 --> 00:34:01,440
Speaker 1: came on for the first time at this level, which

808
00:34:01,480 --> 00:34:02,640
Speaker 1: is really unlike them.

809
00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:04,480
Speaker 2: That's why I'm shocked it's not on your run sheet.

810
00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:06,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think we had so much to talk about.

811
00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:09,120
Speaker 1: But it was an amazing raise. And this is a

812
00:34:09,160 --> 00:34:12,319
Speaker 1: business that really didn't exist a decade ago and is

813
00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:14,920
Speaker 1: now a ten billion dollar business. So that's an incredible

814
00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:17,920
Speaker 1: achievement by the Wall X team. So Jack and Lucy

815
00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:20,719
Speaker 1: and the guys, amazing congratulations from us.

816
00:34:20,920 --> 00:34:23,800
Speaker 2: So since we're talking about interesting ways to make money,

817
00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:26,360
Speaker 2: I did watch a movie on the plane that I

818
00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:28,880
Speaker 2: would highly recommend to you. It's the weirdest of all

819
00:34:28,920 --> 00:34:31,919
Speaker 2: ways to make money. So the movie is called midst Man.

820
00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:33,879
Speaker 2: Have you heard of this movie midas Man.

821
00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:34,239
Speaker 3: No.

822
00:34:34,520 --> 00:34:37,279
Speaker 2: It's about a go called Brian Epstein who died very

823
00:34:37,320 --> 00:34:40,719
Speaker 2: very young, and he's the Beatles manager, right, Yeah, he

824
00:34:40,840 --> 00:34:43,040
Speaker 2: was the manager of the Beatles and many others. It

825
00:34:43,160 --> 00:34:50,080
Speaker 2: is incredibly fascinating, fascinating movie. I'd highly recommend that movie

826
00:34:50,080 --> 00:34:52,160
Speaker 2: to you. And just to talk about like weird ways

827
00:34:52,200 --> 00:34:55,840
Speaker 2: of becoming successful. There can be no weirder way of

828
00:34:55,840 --> 00:34:58,520
Speaker 2: becoming successful than this. So you know, there's been people

829
00:34:58,600 --> 00:35:02,000
Speaker 2: subsequently like David Geffen, who built his billion dollars of

830
00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:04,160
Speaker 2: wealth based on being very very close.

831
00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:06,520
Speaker 1: Well he was more of he owned a label, but

832
00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:06,920
Speaker 1: he was.

833
00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:09,880
Speaker 2: He started off being very close to bands like he

834
00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:13,360
Speaker 2: was basically super into music and discovering he owned the studio,

835
00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:16,319
Speaker 2: and so I think like that would have been the

836
00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:19,239
Speaker 2: trajectory of Epstein had he lived and not died of

837
00:35:19,320 --> 00:35:22,520
Speaker 2: an overdose in his early thirties. But like, I'd never

838
00:35:22,560 --> 00:35:25,120
Speaker 2: appreciated how central he was to the Beatles' success and

839
00:35:25,120 --> 00:35:27,680
Speaker 2: how close he was, especially the John Lennon. I would

840
00:35:27,719 --> 00:35:30,080
Speaker 2: highly recommend that movie. It's just like and there are

841
00:35:30,120 --> 00:35:32,319
Speaker 2: so many weird ways to make money in this world,

842
00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:34,040
Speaker 2: and that has got to be one of the weirdest.

843
00:35:34,040 --> 00:35:36,120
Speaker 1: Absolutely, and Scooter Braun as saying he's probably the modern

844
00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:38,640
Speaker 1: day incarnation of this. I think he's a billionaire now

845
00:35:38,640 --> 00:35:42,480
Speaker 1: and obviously he discovered Bieber and a number of other artists. Speaking,

846
00:35:42,480 --> 00:35:45,440
Speaker 1: if we want to move on to the Labuobu craze,

847
00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:48,040
Speaker 1: you were in touch with La Boo Boos I did?

848
00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:51,880
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm somewhat interested in pop mart because it's

849
00:35:52,200 --> 00:35:55,520
Speaker 2: a very interesting business, but I don't own any laboo boos.

850
00:35:55,600 --> 00:35:57,480
Speaker 2: You might be unsurprised to hear.

851
00:35:57,880 --> 00:36:00,640
Speaker 1: I've actually got a labouobo expert with me in a second.

852
00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:02,840
Speaker 2: But while I look forward to hearing about.

853
00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:04,759
Speaker 1: That, she demanded to appear on this but so lab

854
00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:08,400
Speaker 1: Booboo first appeared as an elfin figure in Kashing Lung's

855
00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:11,480
Speaker 1: in twenty fifteen story book called The Monsters. Usually from

856
00:36:11,520 --> 00:36:13,920
Speaker 1: Hong Kong, Lung relocated to Netherlands with his family the

857
00:36:13,960 --> 00:36:16,800
Speaker 1: young age, and many of his illustrations over his decade

858
00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:19,120
Speaker 1: long career have drawn from a Nordic fairy tale style.

859
00:36:19,520 --> 00:36:21,600
Speaker 1: Angela Law was writing last week in l that in

860
00:36:21,640 --> 00:36:24,399
Speaker 1: twenty nineteen, China's Pop Mart, who you mentioned, entered into

861
00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:27,080
Speaker 1: an exclusive lightning deal with the illustrator to bring the

862
00:36:27,120 --> 00:36:29,680
Speaker 1: monsters into the real world, and thus La Boo Boo

863
00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:32,520
Speaker 1: was born. Laboobo is typically sell for US fifty dollars,

864
00:36:32,600 --> 00:36:34,839
Speaker 1: but particulably they sell out quickly and they show up

865
00:36:34,840 --> 00:36:37,959
Speaker 1: on resale sites at far higher prices. La Boo Boos

866
00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:40,880
Speaker 1: went hyper up Day one by Black Pinks Lisa and

867
00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:44,520
Speaker 1: also rose of Up to fame Rihanna and Juwel Lipa.

868
00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:47,399
Speaker 1: A few weeks ago. Pop Mart with due Labooboo from

869
00:36:47,400 --> 00:36:50,160
Speaker 1: sale in the UK after customers started getting to actual

870
00:36:50,160 --> 00:36:52,880
Speaker 1: physical fights in stores over La Boo Boos.

871
00:36:52,960 --> 00:36:53,760
Speaker 2: Although with pop.

872
00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:55,960
Speaker 1: Mart it's never really easy to tell if this was

873
00:36:56,000 --> 00:36:58,640
Speaker 1: just a PR stunt or legitimate. In twenty twenty five,

874
00:36:58,680 --> 00:37:02,400
Speaker 1: PopMart find out Wang's personal fortune saw a dramatic increase.

875
00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:05,520
Speaker 2: I think what he reckon? He's worth? The founder of Popmark, Well,

876
00:37:05,680 --> 00:37:08,280
Speaker 2: it's well into the billions. Now this thing has gone berserk.

877
00:37:08,320 --> 00:37:09,400
Speaker 2: I'll say five.

878
00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:12,759
Speaker 1: Sixteen point one US billion. This guy is doing well,

879
00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:15,280
Speaker 1: So Popmart's worth thirty eight billions. I've got a resident

880
00:37:15,360 --> 00:37:17,960
Speaker 1: leboobo expert ala with me ill my eight year old daughter. So,

881
00:37:17,960 --> 00:37:20,280
Speaker 1: I loave, you're a labuba evan. What makes la booboo

882
00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:20,960
Speaker 1: so special for you?

883
00:37:21,960 --> 00:37:28,160
Speaker 3: The very cute and they they they're fluffy. You can

884
00:37:28,200 --> 00:37:32,040
Speaker 3: put them onto your bags or keep them beside as

885
00:37:32,120 --> 00:37:33,959
Speaker 3: like an action tiger kind of thing.

886
00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:35,960
Speaker 2: Who told you about them? And how did they find

887
00:37:35,960 --> 00:37:36,600
Speaker 2: out about them? Look?

888
00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:38,840
Speaker 1: How did this crazy start with kids in your school?

889
00:37:39,239 --> 00:37:42,160
Speaker 3: My best friends told me about them, and then I

890
00:37:42,320 --> 00:37:45,879
Speaker 3: told my friends about them. My friend got La boo

891
00:37:45,920 --> 00:37:47,719
Speaker 3: boos from a YouTuber.

892
00:37:48,120 --> 00:37:51,000
Speaker 2: And do you own any little booos? Yeah? I own one?

893
00:37:51,239 --> 00:37:52,399
Speaker 2: And how much do you pay for it?

894
00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:54,640
Speaker 3: Seventy nine dollars for a little teddy.

895
00:37:54,680 --> 00:37:58,480
Speaker 2: Do you think that's good value? Oh gosh, that's uh,

896
00:37:59,400 --> 00:38:02,319
Speaker 2: I'm asking yes?

897
00:38:02,920 --> 00:38:06,040
Speaker 1: So in what you spent an hour doing something yesterday?

898
00:38:06,040 --> 00:38:10,040
Speaker 1: What was that playing with my not that you're out

899
00:38:10,120 --> 00:38:12,040
Speaker 1: the front. You worked, You worked for an hour for us.

900
00:38:12,040 --> 00:38:12,440
Speaker 2: What do you do?

901
00:38:13,600 --> 00:38:17,440
Speaker 3: Oh? I was leaking the leaf and you earned.

902
00:38:17,239 --> 00:38:17,799
Speaker 2: How much for that?

903
00:38:18,360 --> 00:38:20,279
Speaker 1: Twenty two And what do you want to spend that

904
00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:23,160
Speaker 1: twenty two bucks on boobies? Okay, so this is real

905
00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:25,600
Speaker 1: life hard work. You're actually spending on labuoboo. So you

906
00:38:25,600 --> 00:38:28,279
Speaker 1: spent an hour to earn a third of Laboo boo.

907
00:38:28,520 --> 00:38:30,879
Speaker 2: By the way, dollar for age, there is a great rate.

908
00:38:30,960 --> 00:38:32,839
Speaker 2: Twenty two dollars they did.

909
00:38:32,880 --> 00:38:36,359
Speaker 1: They worked hard, in fairness, but this is like we

910
00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:39,840
Speaker 1: love these crazes and you love PopMart. What an incredible

911
00:38:40,160 --> 00:38:44,640
Speaker 1: alchemy of like huge margin product with influencer marketing. This

912
00:38:44,760 --> 00:38:47,359
Speaker 1: is just is it anything more Peak twenty twenty five

913
00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:48,080
Speaker 1: than La Boo boo?

914
00:38:48,160 --> 00:38:50,200
Speaker 2: Well, you know there is this competitor. I mean, there

915
00:38:50,200 --> 00:38:53,200
Speaker 2: are competitors to this business. One of the competitors to

916
00:38:53,239 --> 00:38:56,440
Speaker 2: this business is a business called Funko. You might know

917
00:38:56,520 --> 00:38:58,160
Speaker 2: this funk You might have seen the stuff on this

918
00:38:58,200 --> 00:39:00,640
Speaker 2: Funko business which is called these pop something with an

919
00:39:00,680 --> 00:39:03,200
Speaker 2: exclamation mark. If you go into like a collectible store

920
00:39:03,600 --> 00:39:05,400
Speaker 2: and you see these little boxes that say pop and

921
00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:08,440
Speaker 2: they've got like some of them have athletes and superheroes

922
00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:10,880
Speaker 2: and like a huge head. They're not bubble heads, but

923
00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:13,520
Speaker 2: a very big head and a very little body. And

924
00:39:13,560 --> 00:39:17,680
Speaker 2: so this like collectibles industry, it's crazy. I think the US,

925
00:39:17,719 --> 00:39:21,360
Speaker 2: I think the collectibles industry just for sports collectibles is

926
00:39:21,360 --> 00:39:23,600
Speaker 2: thirty five billion dollars or something like that. It's a

927
00:39:23,680 --> 00:39:26,040
Speaker 2: massive industry. So if you go into pop mart, I

928
00:39:26,080 --> 00:39:28,960
Speaker 2: think PopMart feels. I mean, it's going to be a

929
00:39:29,120 --> 00:39:32,440
Speaker 2: very stereotypical thing to say, but look, it's true. You'll

930
00:39:32,440 --> 00:39:35,560
Speaker 2: see pop mart full of in Australia at least it'll

931
00:39:35,560 --> 00:39:40,560
Speaker 2: be disproportionately like people that are Southeast Asian in at

932
00:39:40,680 --> 00:39:43,520
Speaker 2: least ethnically Southeast Asian. They could all be Aussies, but

933
00:39:43,600 --> 00:39:46,080
Speaker 2: they ethnically Southeast Asian. Whereas if you look at the

934
00:39:46,320 --> 00:39:49,320
Speaker 2: business like Funko, that is an American business and it

935
00:39:49,400 --> 00:39:53,120
Speaker 2: is much more focused on like Marvel superheroes and that

936
00:39:53,200 --> 00:39:55,960
Speaker 2: type of thing. So they're like they're adjacent, i'd say,

937
00:39:55,960 --> 00:39:59,520
Speaker 2: more than competitive. But this industry has gone crazy, Like

938
00:39:59,560 --> 00:40:02,960
Speaker 2: Funko's things started in two thousand and eight or nine,

939
00:40:03,120 --> 00:40:05,200
Speaker 2: and you know, it's been growing. But I think that

940
00:40:05,239 --> 00:40:10,880
Speaker 2: this craze, which is kind of Internet led, influencer driven,

941
00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:14,120
Speaker 2: short form content, et cetera. I think you're right, like

942
00:40:14,200 --> 00:40:18,239
Speaker 2: this is definitely a very twenty twenty five things that

943
00:40:18,400 --> 00:40:19,240
Speaker 2: unbelievable alchemy.

944
00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:21,960
Speaker 1: Obviously, imagine the gross market that might couldn't cost more

945
00:40:21,960 --> 00:40:23,080
Speaker 1: than a dollar to make what my.

946
00:40:23,040 --> 00:40:23,799
Speaker 2: Daughter just held up.

947
00:40:23,880 --> 00:40:26,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, so that we're talking like a ninety five percent

948
00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:29,480
Speaker 1: gross margins and as you love, make their sell their

949
00:40:29,520 --> 00:40:32,440
Speaker 1: own stuff, and they've just been able to somehow create

950
00:40:32,440 --> 00:40:35,279
Speaker 1: this alchemy from the impact of celebrity, the impact of

951
00:40:35,280 --> 00:40:39,239
Speaker 1: social media, you've got a combination obviously, YouTube, you've got

952
00:40:39,600 --> 00:40:41,520
Speaker 1: I'm going to leave a combination of forces. And we

953
00:40:41,560 --> 00:40:44,479
Speaker 1: actually saw it with with Hailey Bieber's sale of her

954
00:40:45,000 --> 00:40:47,160
Speaker 1: cosmetics brand this week to I think it was to

955
00:40:47,280 --> 00:40:49,440
Speaker 1: l for a billion dollars. They get another example of

956
00:40:50,560 --> 00:40:55,000
Speaker 1: founders managing to monetize social media, monetize their followings in

957
00:40:55,040 --> 00:40:57,280
Speaker 1: a way that even five or six years ago wasn't possible.

958
00:40:57,320 --> 00:41:00,640
Speaker 2: Definitely, well, I think you know it's not I mean,

959
00:41:00,719 --> 00:41:02,640
Speaker 2: we talk about it in this way, and these are

960
00:41:02,680 --> 00:41:06,400
Speaker 2: all businesses like Funko is a billion dollar revenue business,

961
00:41:06,760 --> 00:41:09,600
Speaker 2: PopMart would be an even bigger one. Funko sells stuff

962
00:41:09,640 --> 00:41:12,400
Speaker 2: that they make themselves, PopMart tends to. I think PopMart,

963
00:41:12,480 --> 00:41:14,520
Speaker 2: I'm not sure they make all their own stuff themselves.

964
00:41:14,880 --> 00:41:17,439
Speaker 2: They seem to sell other people stuff as well. These

965
00:41:17,440 --> 00:41:19,800
Speaker 2: are not good businesses. Like the thing is, this is

966
00:41:19,840 --> 00:41:22,560
Speaker 2: a hit story of business, and so yeah, like if

967
00:41:22,600 --> 00:41:24,600
Speaker 2: you get a hit, it's like I'll go and make

968
00:41:24,640 --> 00:41:27,160
Speaker 2: a hit song and the cost of goods for me

969
00:41:27,960 --> 00:41:30,839
Speaker 2: selling that song, Like it's totally a scalable business, right,

970
00:41:30,880 --> 00:41:33,839
Speaker 2: it's just downloads. But the thing is, the chance of

971
00:41:33,840 --> 00:41:37,200
Speaker 2: me having a hit is incredibly slim. And so the

972
00:41:37,320 --> 00:41:41,560
Speaker 2: challenge with these businesses is to go beyond being hit

973
00:41:41,680 --> 00:41:44,680
Speaker 2: driven and to have day to day businesses with predictable revenue.

974
00:41:44,719 --> 00:41:47,160
Speaker 2: I think that's what PopMart has been able to do. Frankly,

975
00:41:47,239 --> 00:41:49,399
Speaker 2: like lab Bubu is like a little bit of a

976
00:41:49,440 --> 00:41:52,480
Speaker 2: shooting star in the PopMart universe, but they do have

977
00:41:52,520 --> 00:41:56,200
Speaker 2: this like growing business of reliable revenue, and like I

978
00:41:56,200 --> 00:41:58,520
Speaker 2: think kind of that's that's much more interesting. There are

979
00:41:58,560 --> 00:42:01,560
Speaker 2: younger demographics, that's I mean, it's even older demographic in

980
00:42:01,719 --> 00:42:04,440
Speaker 2: Mike like that would be probably forty year old demographic,

981
00:42:04,640 --> 00:42:08,600
Speaker 2: and like PopMart is the younger kind of teen's early

982
00:42:08,680 --> 00:42:10,080
Speaker 2: twenties type of demographic.

983
00:42:10,239 --> 00:42:12,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, what the market and this could just be a bubble,

984
00:42:12,680 --> 00:42:15,360
Speaker 1: But what the market believes. I'm not saying I believe this.

985
00:42:15,480 --> 00:42:18,960
Speaker 1: I'm gonna buyer PopMart stock. But what the market saying

986
00:42:19,000 --> 00:42:21,719
Speaker 1: is they believe that PopMart maybe has some sort of

987
00:42:21,719 --> 00:42:24,080
Speaker 1: process power they'll be able to repeat this over and

988
00:42:24,120 --> 00:42:27,520
Speaker 1: over and create this alchemy repeatedly. Like it's obviously got

989
00:42:27,520 --> 00:42:29,520
Speaker 1: some well I say it's got some brand. The brand's

990
00:42:29,560 --> 00:42:31,239
Speaker 1: really in the sort of the final products, and the

991
00:42:31,280 --> 00:42:33,600
Speaker 1: Booboo's got a brand, and bubble Head's got a brand

992
00:42:33,640 --> 00:42:35,840
Speaker 1: or whatnot. But they've been able to create not just

993
00:42:35,920 --> 00:42:38,879
Speaker 1: one fad product, but bad product after fad product after

994
00:42:38,920 --> 00:42:41,120
Speaker 1: fad product, and eventually, like you come like Hbo, you

995
00:42:41,200 --> 00:42:43,640
Speaker 1: can keep churning out these hits somehow when other people can't.

996
00:42:43,719 --> 00:42:45,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's possible. I mean if you go to a

997
00:42:45,480 --> 00:42:48,040
Speaker 2: PopMart or like the one I went to most recently

998
00:42:48,239 --> 00:42:50,480
Speaker 2: was I was just I'm fascinated by all of this.

999
00:42:50,600 --> 00:42:53,880
Speaker 2: Was in Westfield. You just be called center Point in

1000
00:42:53,920 --> 00:42:56,760
Speaker 2: Pitt Street Mall in Sydney. I mean there's a queue

1001
00:42:56,760 --> 00:42:58,439
Speaker 2: to get into that store, and if there's not a que,

1002
00:42:58,480 --> 00:43:00,839
Speaker 2: it's so packed. You and early movie like this, These

1003
00:43:00,840 --> 00:43:03,520
Speaker 2: are just unbelievably popular stores at the moment.

1004
00:43:03,600 --> 00:43:05,200
Speaker 1: Okay that it was a great chat. Let's got a

1005
00:43:05,239 --> 00:43:06,960
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1006
00:43:07,000 --> 00:43:10,560
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Speaker 1: a strategic asset. How we're back and we saw a

1046
00:45:22,840 --> 00:45:25,600
Speaker 1: big announcement during the reeking. Eucalypses is back by venture

1047
00:45:25,640 --> 00:45:28,760
Speaker 1: capital bigwig Blackbird is in the early stages of raising

1048
00:45:29,080 --> 00:45:31,279
Speaker 1: between one hundred and one hundred fifty million dollars after

1049
00:45:31,280 --> 00:45:34,040
Speaker 1: delivering its investors a healthy set of financials in April.

1050
00:45:34,040 --> 00:45:34,200
Speaker 2: Well.

1051
00:45:34,200 --> 00:45:37,239
Speaker 1: According to the AFR, anyway, Eucalyptus recorded this is weird

1052
00:45:37,239 --> 00:45:39,360
Speaker 1: two hundred million dollars of revenue in the last eighteen

1053
00:45:39,400 --> 00:45:41,320
Speaker 1: months to March. It's a really weird way to report

1054
00:45:41,360 --> 00:45:43,680
Speaker 1: revenue and his toying with an IPO as early as

1055
00:45:43,680 --> 00:45:46,359
Speaker 1: twenty twenty six. However, if it can tight a large

1056
00:45:46,440 --> 00:45:49,000
Speaker 1: US growth fund with a longer term mindset to Leader's

1057
00:45:49,000 --> 00:45:51,919
Speaker 1: new round, it would lay those plans. Sources Toll Street Talk.

1058
00:45:52,239 --> 00:45:55,319
Speaker 1: It's existing investors, which include US capital firm Bond, which

1059
00:45:55,360 --> 00:45:58,640
Speaker 1: is Mary Meeker's firm Blackbird, NewView, Willworth' venture capital, arm Air,

1060
00:45:58,680 --> 00:46:01,520
Speaker 1: Try One Ventures, an Athletic I expected to soak up around

1061
00:46:01,520 --> 00:46:04,200
Speaker 1: half the new round, given the business has almost crodrupled

1062
00:46:04,200 --> 00:46:06,239
Speaker 1: revenue since then and was growing at one hundred and

1063
00:46:06,280 --> 00:46:08,640
Speaker 1: thirty percent year on year. Five for the Corporate Regulator

1064
00:46:08,719 --> 00:46:10,719
Speaker 1: show that revenue jump fifty percent to one hundred and

1065
00:46:10,719 --> 00:46:13,560
Speaker 1: twenty million last year compared to seventy eight million in

1066
00:46:13,600 --> 00:46:15,280
Speaker 1: the prior period, so that's sort of growing.

1067
00:46:15,280 --> 00:46:16,000
Speaker 2: It was out.

1068
00:46:15,880 --> 00:46:19,720
Speaker 1: Fifty percent off the back of the supplies of a zepic.

1069
00:46:19,880 --> 00:46:23,400
Speaker 1: Really ath tax losses narrowed to fifteen million, and roughly

1070
00:46:23,400 --> 00:46:26,160
Speaker 1: sixty percent of Eucalyptus revenue comes from Europe, and the

1071
00:46:26,160 --> 00:46:28,920
Speaker 1: company is prying to launch brands in two new markets

1072
00:46:28,960 --> 00:46:31,240
Speaker 1: this year. I think I calculate the rule of forty

1073
00:46:31,280 --> 00:46:35,200
Speaker 1: being around forty give or take give it its growth rate.

1074
00:46:36,320 --> 00:46:38,719
Speaker 2: What are your views on Eucalyptus. Well, as you know,

1075
00:46:38,920 --> 00:46:42,920
Speaker 2: I'm friends with Tim Doyle, the CEO and one of

1076
00:46:42,920 --> 00:46:45,800
Speaker 2: the founders. The challenge with this business from a founder

1077
00:46:45,800 --> 00:46:47,080
Speaker 2: point of view is there were like I think there's

1078
00:46:47,120 --> 00:46:49,800
Speaker 2: five founders, and so I don't want to split it.

1079
00:46:50,000 --> 00:46:52,400
Speaker 2: I don't want to split equity with one of the founders.

1080
00:46:52,520 --> 00:46:55,440
Speaker 2: But anyway, I think, but so I really liked him.

1081
00:46:55,440 --> 00:46:58,120
Speaker 2: I think as a tremendously capable person. He's one of

1082
00:46:58,160 --> 00:47:03,880
Speaker 2: the most sophisticated people around marketing in Australia. SoCal caveat

1083
00:47:03,920 --> 00:47:06,880
Speaker 2: by saying, like I really like him. What's I guess

1084
00:47:06,880 --> 00:47:10,239
Speaker 2: interesting about this business that this story hasn't really been

1085
00:47:10,280 --> 00:47:12,799
Speaker 2: told much. But this was not what they intended to do.

1086
00:47:13,080 --> 00:47:17,799
Speaker 2: Like what they've become is a health business predominantly focusing

1087
00:47:17,880 --> 00:47:21,640
Speaker 2: on GLP one injectables for weight loss, like a zempic.

1088
00:47:22,000 --> 00:47:24,359
Speaker 2: But that's not where they started. The business that Tim

1089
00:47:24,440 --> 00:47:26,480
Speaker 2: started because he was obviously the head of marketing and

1090
00:47:26,520 --> 00:47:29,840
Speaker 2: the brains behind the Koala positioning. Where it started is

1091
00:47:29,840 --> 00:47:31,480
Speaker 2: that he was going to build out a whole range

1092
00:47:31,520 --> 00:47:35,479
Speaker 2: of director consumer brand It's like physical products, and that's

1093
00:47:35,520 --> 00:47:38,000
Speaker 2: the business he was planning to build. And then he

1094
00:47:38,120 --> 00:47:40,720
Speaker 2: did something in men's health I think it was men's

1095
00:47:40,760 --> 00:47:43,480
Speaker 2: health and it started to take off a bit and

1096
00:47:43,600 --> 00:47:45,520
Speaker 2: he started to focus on that, and then the GLP

1097
00:47:45,640 --> 00:47:47,680
Speaker 2: ones came out and all of a sudden, like that

1098
00:47:47,840 --> 00:47:49,960
Speaker 2: was his opportunity. And I'm going to do something very weird,

1099
00:47:50,360 --> 00:47:53,239
Speaker 2: and I'm going to I'm going to quote you. When

1100
00:47:53,239 --> 00:47:57,880
Speaker 2: I think about eucalyptus, I think about William Shakespeare, Julius Caesar,

1101
00:47:58,280 --> 00:48:02,520
Speaker 2: because there's a line in that I memorize Shakespeare as

1102
00:48:03,160 --> 00:48:05,919
Speaker 2: a general or particular rule, but I do remember there's

1103
00:48:05,920 --> 00:48:08,600
Speaker 2: a line in that book that I read that stuck

1104
00:48:08,640 --> 00:48:10,839
Speaker 2: with me forever. I'm going to misquote it, but it's

1105
00:48:10,840 --> 00:48:13,440
Speaker 2: something like, there is a tide in the affairs of

1106
00:48:13,520 --> 00:48:16,640
Speaker 2: man and taken at the flood, which taken that the

1107
00:48:16,640 --> 00:48:19,960
Speaker 2: flood leads to fortune or something like that, which basically means,

1108
00:48:20,400 --> 00:48:22,359
Speaker 2: you know, if you imagine like the river flowing in,

1109
00:48:22,719 --> 00:48:25,200
Speaker 2: so the ocean flowing into a river, like as it

1110
00:48:25,239 --> 00:48:28,960
Speaker 2: flows in, the tide goes up and like it's you know, high,

1111
00:48:29,040 --> 00:48:31,799
Speaker 2: and that is the time to grab a whole lot

1112
00:48:31,840 --> 00:48:34,120
Speaker 2: of water. And if you miss that moment, the tide

1113
00:48:34,120 --> 00:48:36,680
Speaker 2: starts going out again, and it becomes increasingly hard to

1114
00:48:36,719 --> 00:48:39,080
Speaker 2: get anything. And that is just I thought. There re

1115
00:48:39,120 --> 00:48:41,320
Speaker 2: ison that stuck with me is it is the great

1116
00:48:41,400 --> 00:48:44,760
Speaker 2: it's a great analogy on the importance of timing in business.

1117
00:48:44,760 --> 00:48:47,040
Speaker 2: Obviously Shakespeare got that because he said, you know, that's

1118
00:48:47,080 --> 00:48:50,879
Speaker 2: that's how people make fortunes. I think eucalyptus is at

1119
00:48:50,880 --> 00:48:54,640
Speaker 2: this moment of flood, and it is perfect timing to

1120
00:48:54,719 --> 00:48:58,759
Speaker 2: say glp one's the hottest thing in the world. Right now.

1121
00:48:59,080 --> 00:49:02,439
Speaker 2: It's an exaggeration to say everybody wants them, but got

1122
00:49:02,520 --> 00:49:04,800
Speaker 2: a lot of I think after the little booboo is

1123
00:49:04,880 --> 00:49:08,080
Speaker 2: there's something like a million people in Australia on GLP ones.

1124
00:49:08,320 --> 00:49:12,000
Speaker 2: I think that's the number. It's crazy, and Tim and

1125
00:49:12,200 --> 00:49:15,600
Speaker 2: the Eucalyptus team have found a way to make it

1126
00:49:15,800 --> 00:49:18,680
Speaker 2: very accessible. It's not on PBS, so you have to

1127
00:49:18,680 --> 00:49:21,200
Speaker 2: pay for this, right unless you've got diabetes like you

1128
00:49:21,239 --> 00:49:23,120
Speaker 2: have to pay it off your pocket. It costs hundreds

1129
00:49:23,160 --> 00:49:26,440
Speaker 2: of dollars a month. But people are desperate for these drugs.

1130
00:49:26,440 --> 00:49:29,480
Speaker 2: These drugs might end up to be wonder drugs, although

1131
00:49:29,760 --> 00:49:32,400
Speaker 2: over time a few more problems are starting to appear.

1132
00:49:32,600 --> 00:49:35,120
Speaker 2: I read an article last week that said, as well

1133
00:49:35,160 --> 00:49:39,400
Speaker 2: as suppressing appetite, they're also suppressing other addictions, which is great,

1134
00:49:39,400 --> 00:49:42,879
Speaker 2: like smoking, even gambling alcohol. But they might also be

1135
00:49:43,000 --> 00:49:47,920
Speaker 2: suppressing general like desire centers in the brain. Yeah, so

1136
00:49:47,960 --> 00:49:49,560
Speaker 2: there's a lot of questions about how works.

1137
00:49:49,560 --> 00:49:53,160
Speaker 1: Suppressing expressing actually having enjoyment of life, which is the criticism.

1138
00:49:53,239 --> 00:49:56,279
Speaker 2: Eucalyptus is doing a great job of capturing a ton

1139
00:49:56,320 --> 00:49:58,760
Speaker 2: of market share here and in Europe. I think Germany.

1140
00:49:59,000 --> 00:50:01,640
Speaker 2: If you said to me, do I think Tim has

1141
00:50:01,680 --> 00:50:04,399
Speaker 2: the potential to build a huge, great business here, making

1142
00:50:04,440 --> 00:50:06,560
Speaker 2: lots of money over time. My answer would definitely be yes,

1143
00:50:06,760 --> 00:50:09,000
Speaker 2: because it's Tim. But I do think he's going to

1144
00:50:09,040 --> 00:50:12,520
Speaker 2: have to use the customer base, the loyal customer base

1145
00:50:12,600 --> 00:50:15,640
Speaker 2: and brand he's built at some point to sell something

1146
00:50:15,640 --> 00:50:18,520
Speaker 2: other than just these GLP ones. I think that's going

1147
00:50:18,560 --> 00:50:20,080
Speaker 2: to be the trick to long term success.

1148
00:50:20,400 --> 00:50:22,480
Speaker 1: I think, and that's a great summary. I think you

1149
00:50:22,480 --> 00:50:26,600
Speaker 1: can put it a different way. Tim is probably one

1150
00:50:26,600 --> 00:50:29,400
Speaker 1: of the best three marketers in Australia. He's a for

1151
00:50:29,480 --> 00:50:35,160
Speaker 1: sure genuine star. No one doubts that he's turned chicken

1152
00:50:35,200 --> 00:50:37,080
Speaker 1: shit and chicken saled in this business. But there is

1153
00:50:37,160 --> 00:50:38,920
Speaker 1: no way I'll be paying a billion dollars for this.

1154
00:50:38,920 --> 00:50:41,799
Speaker 1: This is this is a retailer, so only a commoditized

1155
00:50:41,800 --> 00:50:44,160
Speaker 1: product and he's running a bit of a Google other

1156
00:50:44,280 --> 00:50:46,399
Speaker 1: charge I reckon at the moment, but there's no there's

1157
00:50:47,080 --> 00:50:49,239
Speaker 1: we talk about competitive vantages, I can't think of any

1158
00:50:49,280 --> 00:50:51,440
Speaker 1: competitive vantages they have. They got a little bit of

1159
00:50:51,440 --> 00:50:54,360
Speaker 1: corner resource maybe now temporarily well, they would.

1160
00:50:54,239 --> 00:50:58,160
Speaker 2: Argue brand would be their biggest competitive advantage. I would say,

1161
00:50:58,760 --> 00:51:00,840
Speaker 2: where's the brand is that you Ecalyptus. The brand is

1162
00:51:00,840 --> 00:51:03,200
Speaker 2: a zempiic. The brand that's been the value, like people

1163
00:51:03,200 --> 00:51:06,400
Speaker 2: want is empick well I always has it. Well, maybe

1164
00:51:06,440 --> 00:51:09,120
Speaker 2: I can answer that question in favor of Eucalyptus. Like this,

1165
00:51:09,440 --> 00:51:12,279
Speaker 2: when you couldn't get a zenpic and they started compounding

1166
00:51:12,320 --> 00:51:15,279
Speaker 2: their own versions of it, people continued to buy it.

1167
00:51:15,600 --> 00:51:18,800
Speaker 2: So I think they're definitely Eucalyptus has built a brand.

1168
00:51:19,160 --> 00:51:21,600
Speaker 2: It's actually not the Eucalyptus brand, isn't it. They've got

1169
00:51:21,600 --> 00:51:24,239
Speaker 2: a brand that They've got a sub brand. I think

1170
00:51:24,239 --> 00:51:26,800
Speaker 2: that this stuff is sold under pilot. They've got a

1171
00:51:26,800 --> 00:51:28,520
Speaker 2: whole lot of the ones they said the skin stuff

1172
00:51:28,520 --> 00:51:30,399
Speaker 2: doesn't work, so they got rid of that. Like they're

1173
00:51:30,400 --> 00:51:33,160
Speaker 2: really focused on this. I do think they've built a

1174
00:51:33,200 --> 00:51:35,239
Speaker 2: strong brand. I don't know how strong it is, but

1175
00:51:35,280 --> 00:51:38,359
Speaker 2: they've built a brand. You know, there's some challenges for sure,

1176
00:51:38,440 --> 00:51:40,799
Speaker 2: like if this stuff ends up well. Number one, the

1177
00:51:40,800 --> 00:51:43,960
Speaker 2: government is getting increasingly worried about access to these drugs

1178
00:51:43,960 --> 00:51:47,239
Speaker 2: through telehealth. Now you might say that's ridiculous and get

1179
00:51:47,320 --> 00:51:49,600
Speaker 2: into the twenty first century, but that's just a fact.

1180
00:51:49,680 --> 00:51:52,520
Speaker 2: Like the government's getting worried about about it. So that's

1181
00:51:52,600 --> 00:51:55,040
Speaker 2: there's some risk in that there's a risk that these

1182
00:51:55,120 --> 00:51:57,480
Speaker 2: drugs will all end up on PBS for a whole

1183
00:51:57,480 --> 00:52:00,480
Speaker 2: lot of for a whole lot of use cases, including loss,

1184
00:52:00,520 --> 00:52:02,680
Speaker 2: so that means there will be no reason to sell them,

1185
00:52:02,719 --> 00:52:05,000
Speaker 2: will be sold through pharmacists. I don't know if you

1186
00:52:05,000 --> 00:52:07,720
Speaker 2: can make any money off selling stuff that's on PBS.

1187
00:52:07,719 --> 00:52:10,680
Speaker 2: A bit probably, but I'm not sure. So I think

1188
00:52:10,680 --> 00:52:12,960
Speaker 2: there are some risks, but I do think he is

1189
00:52:13,000 --> 00:52:16,360
Speaker 2: at least a fifty to fifty chance, if not significantly better,

1190
00:52:16,600 --> 00:52:18,680
Speaker 2: to be able to build out a business based on

1191
00:52:18,719 --> 00:52:22,200
Speaker 2: the brand and the customer base that he's cultivated. Definitely,

1192
00:52:22,239 --> 00:52:23,759
Speaker 2: he's got the money to do it, so it's going

1193
00:52:23,760 --> 00:52:24,480
Speaker 2: to be in his court.

1194
00:52:24,600 --> 00:52:26,719
Speaker 1: I'm very dubious about Like, remember, this business to lose

1195
00:52:26,800 --> 00:52:29,120
Speaker 1: fifty million bucks a year, so it's a business till

1196
00:52:29,160 --> 00:52:32,439
Speaker 1: purning cash. Yeah, group fifty percent last year, which which

1197
00:52:32,440 --> 00:52:33,319
Speaker 1: is okay, But.

1198
00:52:33,280 --> 00:52:35,279
Speaker 2: It's impossible for us to assess that because we don't

1199
00:52:35,320 --> 00:52:37,240
Speaker 2: know what the gross margins are on this stuff.

1200
00:52:37,440 --> 00:52:40,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've got no idea. And to your point, they're

1201
00:52:40,040 --> 00:52:42,160
Speaker 1: not selling their own stuff. They're selling a zepic which

1202
00:52:42,200 --> 00:52:44,719
Speaker 1: is absolutely not their own there's nothing about this I

1203
00:52:44,800 --> 00:52:47,000
Speaker 1: like other than the fact that Tim's a generational marketer

1204
00:52:47,360 --> 00:52:50,080
Speaker 1: and you're buying to him. He ain't worth a billion dollars.

1205
00:52:51,080 --> 00:52:53,840
Speaker 1: Any VC who pays a billion dollars for this shouldn't

1206
00:52:53,840 --> 00:52:56,479
Speaker 1: be taking people's money. They're unfit to take people's money.

1207
00:52:56,480 --> 00:52:58,200
Speaker 1: This is maybe a two hundred million dollar business in

1208
00:52:58,200 --> 00:53:00,360
Speaker 1: my mind too, maybe three hundred million bucks best case.

1209
00:53:00,719 --> 00:53:02,759
Speaker 2: I tell you who does get great margins on the

1210
00:53:02,880 --> 00:53:05,799
Speaker 2: zembig You can guess who The answer to this question is,

1211
00:53:05,840 --> 00:53:08,440
Speaker 2: which is Nova. Noticed they think that a month supply.

1212
00:53:08,480 --> 00:53:10,879
Speaker 2: The estimate is that a month's supply for Zenpi costs

1213
00:53:10,920 --> 00:53:13,400
Speaker 2: five dollars to manufacture US dollars.

1214
00:53:13,560 --> 00:53:16,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, and the other thing you have Eli Lily, who's

1215
00:53:17,040 --> 00:53:20,319
Speaker 1: actually outperforming. I think that their product's mon Jarrow and

1216
00:53:20,640 --> 00:53:24,279
Speaker 1: Lily is absolutely ripping Nova notice a new one. So

1217
00:53:24,840 --> 00:53:27,520
Speaker 1: nobody's really dropped off in the last four year. But

1218
00:53:27,560 --> 00:53:31,719
Speaker 1: I don't think it matters who. I don't think acalyp Yeah,

1219
00:53:31,719 --> 00:53:33,760
Speaker 1: it matters to Eucalyptus who it is, Like, I think

1220
00:53:34,120 --> 00:53:38,719
Speaker 1: basically Eucalyptus has said, there's this big market of obesity

1221
00:53:39,360 --> 00:53:42,759
Speaker 1: with the Western world, and there's these new drugs that

1222
00:53:42,840 --> 00:53:45,440
Speaker 1: are very effective in fighting it. It's early, but they

1223
00:53:45,440 --> 00:53:48,680
Speaker 1: seem very effective and people want access to it, and

1224
00:53:48,719 --> 00:53:51,280
Speaker 1: so we're going to make it really easy to access.

1225
00:53:51,520 --> 00:53:54,200
Speaker 1: And so they would disagree with how easy they make it,

1226
00:53:54,239 --> 00:53:56,080
Speaker 1: but they definitely make it easier than going into a

1227
00:53:56,120 --> 00:53:58,319
Speaker 1: GP's office and having a whole conversation with the GP.

1228
00:53:58,640 --> 00:54:01,160
Speaker 2: That will make it easier to act. And once you

1229
00:54:01,239 --> 00:54:03,440
Speaker 2: access it, we're going to remove all of the friction

1230
00:54:04,160 --> 00:54:06,960
Speaker 2: from the relationship of supplying it to you and engaging

1231
00:54:06,960 --> 00:54:08,440
Speaker 2: with you. And then they will probably argue we're going

1232
00:54:08,440 --> 00:54:10,120
Speaker 2: to build it out and have a more holistic care

1233
00:54:10,160 --> 00:54:12,759
Speaker 2: plan and all of these types of things would be

1234
00:54:12,760 --> 00:54:14,840
Speaker 2: the logical way to take all of this. But I

1235
00:54:14,840 --> 00:54:17,239
Speaker 2: think maybe what they're doing is jumping on something that

1236
00:54:17,320 --> 00:54:21,040
Speaker 2: can give them amense momentum and planning to do something

1237
00:54:21,080 --> 00:54:23,880
Speaker 2: more proprietary down the track. That'd be that's got to

1238
00:54:23,880 --> 00:54:25,359
Speaker 2: be what's in the pitch deck in my well.

1239
00:54:25,440 --> 00:54:27,200
Speaker 1: Possibly, But at the moment I've seen a business with

1240
00:54:27,280 --> 00:54:29,040
Speaker 1: and you just said it there that what value are

1241
00:54:29,080 --> 00:54:31,000
Speaker 1: they adding? What problem they solving? The problem I'm solving

1242
00:54:31,080 --> 00:54:32,959
Speaker 1: is a bit of regulatary arbitrage. It's a bit harder

1243
00:54:32,960 --> 00:54:35,920
Speaker 1: to get these zmpic drugs now because supply is a

1244
00:54:35,960 --> 00:54:38,359
Speaker 1: bit limited. This is a business really is adding very

1245
00:54:38,400 --> 00:54:40,680
Speaker 1: very little value to anyone, and all you have is

1246
00:54:40,719 --> 00:54:42,600
Speaker 1: a really smart market of running it. It's a busy

1247
00:54:42,640 --> 00:54:45,279
Speaker 1: I hate this business as an investor, I hate it.

1248
00:54:45,320 --> 00:54:47,400
Speaker 2: I just there's there's nothing that it gives. They are

1249
00:54:47,520 --> 00:54:50,040
Speaker 2: provided they are adding value. Like I told you, the

1250
00:54:50,040 --> 00:54:51,880
Speaker 2: two things that they do add value, and then you

1251
00:54:52,000 --> 00:54:53,960
Speaker 2: diminished it to zero. But then you shouldn't diminish it

1252
00:54:54,000 --> 00:54:56,160
Speaker 2: to zero like I'm diminishing it because there were shit

1253
00:54:56,280 --> 00:54:59,520
Speaker 2: reasons because they had any value. It's easier to access,

1254
00:55:00,080 --> 00:55:03,160
Speaker 2: and it's somebody else can build a site then, but

1255
00:55:03,560 --> 00:55:06,120
Speaker 2: easy access is a shocking value add So that would

1256
00:55:06,160 --> 00:55:08,680
Speaker 2: be a better argument I think to make, which is

1257
00:55:08,120 --> 00:55:11,799
Speaker 2: what are the obstacles to somebody else coming in and

1258
00:55:11,840 --> 00:55:14,280
Speaker 2: doing the same thing, And the answer probably is money

1259
00:55:14,280 --> 00:55:17,520
Speaker 2: and a preparedness to lose money and being a couple

1260
00:55:17,520 --> 00:55:19,520
Speaker 2: of years behind. I think there could have been no

1261
00:55:19,600 --> 00:55:24,319
Speaker 2: better success for Eucalyptus than having instant scripts brought by

1262
00:55:24,360 --> 00:55:27,640
Speaker 2: one of those Titanic conglomerates, because that was it for

1263
00:55:27,680 --> 00:55:31,240
Speaker 2: them being a competitor, right, and so, and then there's Mosh,

1264
00:55:31,320 --> 00:55:33,359
Speaker 2: which is another brand run by a couple of guys

1265
00:55:33,400 --> 00:55:35,319
Speaker 2: out of Sydney who I know. And so that's well,

1266
00:55:36,040 --> 00:55:38,600
Speaker 2: make money, Yeah, they make well. Yeah, that's what I've

1267
00:55:38,600 --> 00:55:40,680
Speaker 2: heard as well, that they make money, and they're well funded,

1268
00:55:40,719 --> 00:55:42,840
Speaker 2: but nowhere near as well funded as Eucalyptus. I suspect

1269
00:55:42,800 --> 00:55:44,680
Speaker 2: they're growing quite a bit slower, and so they're taking

1270
00:55:44,680 --> 00:55:47,880
Speaker 2: a different approach to building a business. I don't know

1271
00:55:47,880 --> 00:55:49,200
Speaker 2: how all of this is going to wash out, but

1272
00:55:49,239 --> 00:55:51,839
Speaker 2: I can tell you if you said to me one

1273
00:55:51,840 --> 00:55:55,440
Speaker 2: of these businesses has really succeeded, what happened like five

1274
00:55:55,520 --> 00:55:57,160
Speaker 2: years time, I would be easy for me to know

1275
00:55:57,200 --> 00:56:01,000
Speaker 2: what happened. What happened is they leveraged this market leading position,

1276
00:56:01,160 --> 00:56:04,600
Speaker 2: brand and customer base into a business that was something

1277
00:56:04,640 --> 00:56:06,920
Speaker 2: more than this. I think that's very possible. And so

1278
00:56:07,160 --> 00:56:09,160
Speaker 2: you're saying if they stay as this, they're not a

1279
00:56:09,239 --> 00:56:11,480
Speaker 2: very good business. I agree with you about that. I

1280
00:56:11,520 --> 00:56:14,319
Speaker 2: think although we say that, but some person that owns

1281
00:56:14,360 --> 00:56:17,760
Speaker 2: sixteen pharmacies inside chemist Warehouse just got five hundred million

1282
00:56:17,800 --> 00:56:21,040
Speaker 2: dollars for it. So maybe owning a far this is

1283
00:56:21,040 --> 00:56:23,640
Speaker 2: basically an online pharmacy was selling one product or a

1284
00:56:23,680 --> 00:56:26,080
Speaker 2: few products. I mean, pharmacists have made money for a

1285
00:56:26,080 --> 00:56:27,520
Speaker 2: long time. You might just say they're not really good

1286
00:56:27,640 --> 00:56:31,920
Speaker 2: venture backed businesses. I definitely don't feel negatively about eucalyptus.

1287
00:56:32,000 --> 00:56:34,879
Speaker 2: I think tim et ul have set up an opportunity.

1288
00:56:35,360 --> 00:56:38,120
Speaker 2: They have positions as beautifully grabbing this flood, setting up

1289
00:56:38,120 --> 00:56:41,960
Speaker 2: an opportunity to succeed. You know, VC bets are all about, Yeah,

1290
00:56:41,960 --> 00:56:43,760
Speaker 2: there's a high risk that will end up with nothing,

1291
00:56:43,840 --> 00:56:46,160
Speaker 2: but there's certainly an opportunity that we could make one

1292
00:56:46,239 --> 00:56:48,399
Speaker 2: hundred x on our money here, maybe not at a bill,

1293
00:56:48,480 --> 00:56:51,000
Speaker 2: but like ten x, fifteen to twenty x on our money.

1294
00:56:51,080 --> 00:56:53,040
Speaker 2: Definitely at the I think his first raising.

1295
00:56:52,920 --> 00:56:53,960
Speaker 1: Was in do you think this should be a ten

1296
00:56:54,000 --> 00:56:54,840
Speaker 1: billion dollar business?

1297
00:56:54,880 --> 00:56:55,960
Speaker 2: If this yeah, it could.

1298
00:56:56,520 --> 00:56:59,320
Speaker 1: It could be ten billion, much more likely than ten billion.

1299
00:57:00,360 --> 00:57:03,880
Speaker 1: There's no chance, there's zero chance, zero chances will be

1300
00:57:03,880 --> 00:57:06,560
Speaker 1: at tempi. Let's hope this show goes long enough about

1301
00:57:06,600 --> 00:57:09,600
Speaker 1: last yucalyptus. But it's like this is like you is

1302
00:57:09,640 --> 00:57:13,080
Speaker 1: a shitty retailer with no advantages that loses money what

1303
00:57:13,080 --> 00:57:14,239
Speaker 1: should be worth zero at the moment.

1304
00:57:14,280 --> 00:57:16,480
Speaker 2: I totally disagree with everything that you've just said on that.

1305
00:57:17,120 --> 00:57:21,360
Speaker 2: So it's a good retailer, it has brand as a

1306
00:57:21,400 --> 00:57:24,280
Speaker 2: competitive advantage. It definitely should not be worth zero. We

1307
00:57:24,320 --> 00:57:25,919
Speaker 2: can argue if it should be worth a billion dollars,

1308
00:57:25,960 --> 00:57:27,800
Speaker 2: I probably wouldn't pay billion dollars for it either, But.

1309
00:57:28,280 --> 00:57:31,440
Speaker 1: Money like fifty million bucks last year telling ammoetized product

1310
00:57:31,440 --> 00:57:32,200
Speaker 1: it doesn't make.

1311
00:57:32,120 --> 00:57:34,960
Speaker 2: You're trying to say, what would you pay that's sensible

1312
00:57:35,120 --> 00:57:38,360
Speaker 2: versus what would a VC pay within so called power

1313
00:57:38,440 --> 00:57:41,360
Speaker 2: law economics, which is just to try and pick winners right,

1314
00:57:41,840 --> 00:57:44,600
Speaker 2: And it's like you're saying, like, this is junk. It's

1315
00:57:44,640 --> 00:57:47,040
Speaker 2: like you've gone I don't know, full on an oil

1316
00:57:47,200 --> 00:57:49,960
Speaker 2: slick one hundred years ago and say well, this is terrible,

1317
00:57:49,960 --> 00:57:51,840
Speaker 2: it's dirty and it's whatever, and this is never going

1318
00:57:51,920 --> 00:57:54,600
Speaker 2: to become anything. You think this dirty black stuff could

1319
00:57:54,680 --> 00:57:57,439
Speaker 2: become one hundred billion dollar business. I'm like, yeah, wait

1320
00:57:57,480 --> 00:57:59,280
Speaker 2: to see what they do with it in the future.

1321
00:57:59,360 --> 00:58:01,040
Speaker 2: And so that's how I feel about this. It's not

1322
00:58:01,120 --> 00:58:01,920
Speaker 2: like finding oil.

1323
00:58:02,040 --> 00:58:04,440
Speaker 1: It's not your best. It's not your best in ours now.

1324
00:58:04,480 --> 00:58:06,680
Speaker 2: But you're basically looking at something that's a bit dirty

1325
00:58:06,680 --> 00:58:09,240
Speaker 2: and a bit messy today and you're saying, well, it's

1326
00:58:09,280 --> 00:58:11,240
Speaker 2: always going to stay dirty and messy. And what I'm

1327
00:58:11,280 --> 00:58:13,360
Speaker 2: saying is, well, it may not. It might be that

1328
00:58:13,400 --> 00:58:16,040
Speaker 2: this is how it started, it got momentum, but what

1329
00:58:16,040 --> 00:58:18,720
Speaker 2: it turns into in five years time you're selling a

1330
00:58:18,760 --> 00:58:22,040
Speaker 2: whole variety of different things where it is much higher

1331
00:58:22,280 --> 00:58:25,400
Speaker 2: up the supply chain on these things, and that there

1332
00:58:25,440 --> 00:58:28,360
Speaker 2: are some genuine long term competitive advantages by the way,

1333
00:58:28,440 --> 00:58:30,800
Speaker 2: which brand is a good one. So I just think

1334
00:58:31,200 --> 00:58:32,960
Speaker 2: where we differ is maybe I mean, I was going

1335
00:58:33,000 --> 00:58:34,760
Speaker 2: to say we don't differ about where the business is today,

1336
00:58:34,760 --> 00:58:36,400
Speaker 2: but with your schilllacking, you just gave it. I think

1337
00:58:36,440 --> 00:58:39,120
Speaker 2: we also differ on that, but I think mostly where

1338
00:58:39,160 --> 00:58:41,920
Speaker 2: we deliver, where we differ is I can see the

1339
00:58:41,960 --> 00:58:44,720
Speaker 2: potential and why VCS would invest in this business, and

1340
00:58:44,760 --> 00:58:46,400
Speaker 2: definitely with Tim running it.

1341
00:58:47,000 --> 00:58:49,760
Speaker 1: Sure maybe your friendship with Tim is influencing. I'm shocked

1342
00:58:49,800 --> 00:58:52,760
Speaker 1: that you, like we know, online retailers are shocking, like

1343
00:58:53,120 --> 00:58:55,480
Speaker 1: take out, Cogan and nobody. Nobody's made a dollar out

1344
00:58:55,520 --> 00:58:58,760
Speaker 1: of online retail selling stuff that isn't as in Australia

1345
00:58:58,840 --> 00:59:02,000
Speaker 1: in the last thirty years, every e commerce business has failed.

1346
00:59:02,080 --> 00:59:03,760
Speaker 1: I can think of that gat the very small niche

1347
00:59:03,800 --> 00:59:06,360
Speaker 1: ones anyone of any kind of scale other than COVID.

1348
00:59:06,400 --> 00:59:09,400
Speaker 1: It's failed. These guys sell like one product.

1349
00:59:09,200 --> 00:59:12,080
Speaker 2: This has higher barriers than doing a marketplace for furniture,

1350
00:59:12,440 --> 00:59:15,760
Speaker 2: Like this is a restricted product, so that's as higher barriers.

1351
00:59:15,800 --> 00:59:19,240
Speaker 2: You have to get past regulatory hurdles for a start

1352
00:59:19,280 --> 00:59:20,960
Speaker 2: to sell. So not anyone can sell this.

1353
00:59:21,280 --> 00:59:24,880
Speaker 1: These guys were selling Bootlegged Buddy as MPG wasn't even

1354
00:59:24,920 --> 00:59:26,000
Speaker 1: Like was that even legal?

1355
00:59:26,200 --> 00:59:28,480
Speaker 2: No, no, they weren't. It's totally wrong what you're saying.

1356
00:59:28,600 --> 00:59:30,600
Speaker 2: It's yes, it was legal, and what you're saying is

1357
00:59:30,640 --> 00:59:34,880
Speaker 2: totally wrong, totally wrong. They stopped selling it. Well you

1358
00:59:34,920 --> 00:59:37,200
Speaker 2: know what, like there was a great area in the law.

1359
00:59:37,280 --> 00:59:39,760
Speaker 2: It was legal. They were compounding their own stuff. They

1360
00:59:39,760 --> 00:59:41,320
Speaker 2: were just doing it on a scale it hadn't been

1361
00:59:41,360 --> 00:59:44,680
Speaker 2: anticipated by the law. And so look, I just want

1362
00:59:44,720 --> 00:59:47,120
Speaker 2: to say this to you, Like basically, you know, you're

1363
00:59:47,160 --> 00:59:50,320
Speaker 2: putting a hat on to decide on investing based on

1364
00:59:50,800 --> 00:59:53,640
Speaker 2: let's say investing your money or investing in a pe

1365
00:59:53,800 --> 00:59:56,640
Speaker 2: style or trying to work out valuation. And what I'm

1366
00:59:56,680 --> 00:59:58,720
Speaker 2: saying is I agree on that basis, you can't go

1367
00:59:58,840 --> 01:00:01,840
Speaker 2: near this business, not on this valuation and maybe not

1368
01:00:01,880 --> 01:00:04,560
Speaker 2: on any valuation. But if you're a VC, I just

1369
01:00:04,560 --> 01:00:07,480
Speaker 2: want to re emphasize this. If you're a VC, you

1370
01:00:07,520 --> 01:00:10,480
Speaker 2: don't really care about your losses. You just care about

1371
01:00:10,480 --> 01:00:12,520
Speaker 2: the wins, and the bigger the win, the better. And

1372
01:00:12,560 --> 01:00:14,920
Speaker 2: if you said to me, maybe the number one place

1373
01:00:14,920 --> 01:00:17,160
Speaker 2: we disagree, we can distill all of our disagreement down

1374
01:00:17,200 --> 01:00:19,400
Speaker 2: to this. I think there is a chance that this

1375
01:00:19,480 --> 01:00:21,280
Speaker 2: could be huge and they could figure out a way

1376
01:00:21,320 --> 01:00:24,880
Speaker 2: to turn this into a sustainable, long term, differentiated business,

1377
01:00:24,960 --> 01:00:27,439
Speaker 2: and you feel like, no chance. And I think that's

1378
01:00:27,440 --> 01:00:29,520
Speaker 2: the fundamental difference. And so maybe if you had a VC,

1379
01:00:29,640 --> 01:00:31,880
Speaker 2: you wouldn't invest in it, And if I had, I

1380
01:00:31,920 --> 01:00:34,480
Speaker 2: would definitely I wouldn't invest as a VC this late

1381
01:00:34,520 --> 01:00:36,840
Speaker 2: in it. I think that's very interesting that Blackbird's done that,

1382
01:00:37,040 --> 01:00:40,080
Speaker 2: But basically I think that as a VC, I would just.

1383
01:00:40,080 --> 01:00:42,800
Speaker 1: To clarify, I doubt this is just a press release

1384
01:00:42,880 --> 01:00:47,280
Speaker 1: to the street talk that is this is what they

1385
01:00:47,320 --> 01:00:49,760
Speaker 1: want to get. Definitely has invested ability. I'm not like

1386
01:00:49,800 --> 01:00:53,000
Speaker 1: Blackbird invested ages ago and actually they topped up again,

1387
01:00:53,080 --> 01:00:54,800
Speaker 1: but that valuation was way less.

1388
01:00:55,240 --> 01:00:57,600
Speaker 2: So oh, I know, I was getting confused. Sorry, I

1389
01:00:57,640 --> 01:00:59,880
Speaker 2: was getting confused because we just talked about air wallocks

1390
01:01:00,040 --> 01:01:03,600
Speaker 2: of the X Party, and so I'm not super I'm

1391
01:01:03,640 --> 01:01:05,360
Speaker 2: not Look, I'm a big fan of Blackbird, I'm not

1392
01:01:05,360 --> 01:01:07,600
Speaker 2: the biggest fan of investing for VCS to invest in

1393
01:01:07,640 --> 01:01:10,439
Speaker 2: that late in businesses, generally speaking, it's on new usual

1394
01:01:10,560 --> 01:01:13,080
Speaker 2: for that. I understand why VCS would invest in eucalyptus.

1395
01:01:13,240 --> 01:01:15,560
Speaker 2: I think it's sensible. They might lose all their money,

1396
01:01:15,560 --> 01:01:16,880
Speaker 2: but I think it's sensible at one.

1397
01:01:16,840 --> 01:01:20,360
Speaker 1: Hundred million, your thesis has some validity, Like at one

1398
01:01:20,400 --> 01:01:22,560
Speaker 1: hundred million is cheap enough? And tim's that good that

1399
01:01:22,680 --> 01:01:24,960
Speaker 1: who knows at a bill like and this isn't a billion.

1400
01:01:24,960 --> 01:01:27,480
Speaker 1: This is what they're trying to get at A brilliant's nonsense.

1401
01:01:27,440 --> 01:01:30,240
Speaker 2: When you say it's cheap enough. I think the difference

1402
01:01:30,240 --> 01:01:32,160
Speaker 2: is in VC land when you say it's cheap enough,

1403
01:01:32,200 --> 01:01:34,760
Speaker 2: what you're looking at is how many times my money

1404
01:01:34,760 --> 01:01:37,080
Speaker 2: could I make if this really takes off. That's what

1405
01:01:37,200 --> 01:01:39,080
Speaker 2: determines is it cheap enough? And so if this was

1406
01:01:39,120 --> 01:01:41,560
Speaker 2: being sold at a ten billion dollar valuation, I can't

1407
01:01:41,560 --> 01:01:43,520
Speaker 2: buy it because I'm not going to make you know,

1408
01:01:43,560 --> 01:01:45,400
Speaker 2: a trillion dollars off this. I'm no chance of a

1409
01:01:45,480 --> 01:01:47,320
Speaker 2: hundred x and I probably can't even make ten X

1410
01:01:47,360 --> 01:01:49,800
Speaker 2: at ten billion dollars, But there will be vcs that

1411
01:01:49,880 --> 01:01:51,480
Speaker 2: look at this and say I see the road to

1412
01:01:51,520 --> 01:01:54,280
Speaker 2: ten billion dollars on this business. So at any evaluation

1413
01:01:54,400 --> 01:01:56,240
Speaker 2: less than a bill I can still make ten X.

1414
01:01:56,640 --> 01:01:58,240
Speaker 2: You can agree or disagree with that, but that is

1415
01:01:58,360 --> 01:02:00,560
Speaker 2: that is the mindset of VC, that is how their

1416
01:02:00,600 --> 01:02:01,360
Speaker 2: business works.

1417
01:02:01,800 --> 01:02:04,280
Speaker 1: Name of like we'll talk about it. We don't have

1418
01:02:04,360 --> 01:02:06,000
Speaker 1: time this week. But JB hahif I wont the great

1419
01:02:06,040 --> 01:02:07,560
Speaker 1: retailers of Australian.

1420
01:02:07,080 --> 01:02:11,080
Speaker 2: History chemist warehouse, I'm going to preempt your question, chemist chemist.

1421
01:02:10,880 --> 01:02:13,600
Speaker 1: Warehouse, is a is now a thirty year old? Like

1422
01:02:13,640 --> 01:02:16,520
Speaker 1: thirty or old? Is I'm saying jhip is forty years old?

1423
01:02:16,560 --> 01:02:19,040
Speaker 1: Even more fifty years old. These a business that are

1424
01:02:19,080 --> 01:02:21,880
Speaker 1: slowly built up over half a century, that make a

1425
01:02:21,960 --> 01:02:24,520
Speaker 1: huge amount of profit, big deal, and that have does

1426
01:02:24,640 --> 01:02:27,280
Speaker 1: actual presences, not an online business that can be commoded.

1427
01:02:27,640 --> 01:02:30,680
Speaker 1: Haven't seen it online in Temple's webs is probably the

1428
01:02:30,720 --> 01:02:33,080
Speaker 1: example that proves me wrong. But who knows how long

1429
01:02:33,120 --> 01:02:35,800
Speaker 1: that valuation will lasts. But take out Temple Cogan's now

1430
01:02:35,800 --> 01:02:37,960
Speaker 1: worth four hundred million, like no one has made this

1431
01:02:38,040 --> 01:02:41,480
Speaker 1: online e commerce marketplace stuff work catch is now worth

1432
01:02:41,560 --> 01:02:43,880
Speaker 1: zero because West Farm is killed at like it hasn't

1433
01:02:43,880 --> 01:02:44,600
Speaker 1: worked well, it's.

1434
01:02:44,520 --> 01:02:49,160
Speaker 2: Not a marketplace. Eucalyptus eclipses whatever. Online you were right

1435
01:02:49,200 --> 01:02:51,760
Speaker 2: with a retaller. I don't know. But when you say

1436
01:02:51,800 --> 01:02:53,360
Speaker 2: online retail, it's rubbish.

1437
01:02:53,480 --> 01:02:55,560
Speaker 1: It's not their own stuff, as you said they if

1438
01:02:55,560 --> 01:02:57,400
Speaker 1: they made as MPIG, sure, but they don't.

1439
01:02:57,840 --> 01:03:01,439
Speaker 2: They just resell someone else's stuff. Where's the competitive advantage there? Well,

1440
01:03:01,520 --> 01:03:03,840
Speaker 2: I think we've been through this five times, which is

1441
01:03:03,920 --> 01:03:06,080
Speaker 2: I agree with you. I'd say it's very slowly. Okay.

1442
01:03:06,160 --> 01:03:08,919
Speaker 2: If this is all they stay, I agree with you.

1443
01:03:09,240 --> 01:03:11,560
Speaker 2: It is not a road to victory. If that makes

1444
01:03:11,560 --> 01:03:14,320
Speaker 2: you feel good that I'm agreeing with you, I'm totally

1445
01:03:14,360 --> 01:03:15,520
Speaker 2: agreeing with you on that point.

1446
01:03:16,080 --> 01:03:18,520
Speaker 1: It's an express to defeat.

1447
01:03:19,160 --> 01:03:21,880
Speaker 2: Do not just stand still and keep doing this? And

1448
01:03:21,920 --> 01:03:24,080
Speaker 2: Tim will say do you think I'm a freaking idiot

1449
01:03:24,200 --> 01:03:27,080
Speaker 2: or something akin to that? Okay, and then I'd say

1450
01:03:27,400 --> 01:03:29,280
Speaker 2: fair enough, Tim. But what I'm saying to you is

1451
01:03:29,520 --> 01:03:31,320
Speaker 2: maybe I'll just say some simple questions to you and

1452
01:03:31,320 --> 01:03:32,920
Speaker 2: you can say yes or no. Do you think this

1453
01:03:32,960 --> 01:03:36,240
Speaker 2: business is growing very rapidly? Yes? I can answer for

1454
01:03:36,280 --> 01:03:38,760
Speaker 2: both sides. Of the question, I wouldn't I wouldn't say'

1455
01:03:38,800 --> 01:03:41,080
Speaker 2: that rapid. Fifty percent on one hundred million dollars of

1456
01:03:41,120 --> 01:03:43,440
Speaker 2: revenue plus, that's a very rapid. It's not you just

1457
01:03:43,440 --> 01:03:47,479
Speaker 2: go forty on and losing fifteen million dollars. So, yes,

1458
01:03:47,520 --> 01:03:50,720
Speaker 2: they're growing fast. Do you think they're going fast? Nice grows, Yes,

1459
01:03:51,120 --> 01:03:53,240
Speaker 2: nice grist. I'll be very happy with fifty percent, thank

1460
01:03:53,240 --> 01:03:55,280
Speaker 2: you very much, at one hundred millli of revenue. So

1461
01:03:55,280 --> 01:03:56,200
Speaker 2: do you think they're growing fast?

1462
01:03:56,240 --> 01:03:56,479
Speaker 3: Yes?

1463
01:03:56,800 --> 01:03:59,600
Speaker 2: Do you think they've got a brand that is emerging

1464
01:03:59,600 --> 01:04:01,320
Speaker 2: as a wrong brand? Well, you don't really know the

1465
01:04:01,320 --> 01:04:03,160
Speaker 2: answer that, but I can tell the answers. Yes, they do.

1466
01:04:03,320 --> 01:04:04,160
Speaker 2: It is great they.

1467
01:04:04,040 --> 01:04:08,640
Speaker 1: Do answering your own questions here, I know, because you're

1468
01:04:08,680 --> 01:04:09,840
Speaker 1: bad at these questions.

1469
01:04:09,880 --> 01:04:11,960
Speaker 2: If I've clicked to someone that was better at the questions,

1470
01:04:12,120 --> 01:04:15,080
Speaker 2: I'd let them answer anyway. You know what they're gonna

1471
01:04:15,080 --> 01:04:17,000
Speaker 2: They're definitely going to get one hundred million dollars now

1472
01:04:17,320 --> 01:04:18,120
Speaker 2: your greeth, I don't know.

1473
01:04:18,880 --> 01:04:20,960
Speaker 1: It depends how stupid these vcs are, depends how if

1474
01:04:21,000 --> 01:04:23,360
Speaker 1: VSAs believe you or me. That's the question.

1475
01:04:23,680 --> 01:04:26,800
Speaker 2: I don't know. Well, they'd be very smart to believe so.

1476
01:04:28,520 --> 01:04:28,640
Speaker 3: Not.

1477
01:04:29,720 --> 01:04:32,600
Speaker 2: By the way, I'm not pitching this investment. I'm just

1478
01:04:32,680 --> 01:04:36,360
Speaker 2: telling you this is a This a VC that invests

1479
01:04:36,360 --> 01:04:39,560
Speaker 2: in this business is a sensible investment. It might be wrong,

1480
01:04:39,680 --> 01:04:41,840
Speaker 2: it might turn out to be wrong, but it's not

1481
01:04:42,000 --> 01:04:44,920
Speaker 2: a ludicrous investment. Like and so it.

1482
01:04:44,960 --> 01:04:46,520
Speaker 1: Seems what it says that if you're cold and you

1483
01:04:46,560 --> 01:04:48,440
Speaker 1: put money in the fireplace, you get a bit warmer.

1484
01:04:48,560 --> 01:04:51,480
Speaker 2: That kind of level. I totally disagree with it. All right, Well,

1485
01:04:51,680 --> 01:04:53,680
Speaker 2: we're not going to be able to see who's right

1486
01:04:53,800 --> 01:04:55,320
Speaker 2: because I'm probably going to jump off the side of

1487
01:04:55,360 --> 01:04:57,960
Speaker 2: a building if we have this conversation longer.

1488
01:04:58,160 --> 01:05:01,640
Speaker 1: But to we'll move on. You want to talk about

1489
01:05:01,800 --> 01:05:03,000
Speaker 1: some tax stuff, I believe.

1490
01:05:03,080 --> 01:05:05,000
Speaker 2: Ah, so I'm going to make something to do with

1491
01:05:05,040 --> 01:05:09,840
Speaker 2: the ATO exciting, okay and also absurd and depressing. So

1492
01:05:10,080 --> 01:05:12,200
Speaker 2: you know, if you owe money to the ATO, like

1493
01:05:12,280 --> 01:05:15,800
Speaker 2: they charge your interest yep, general intercharge. You know that,

1494
01:05:16,480 --> 01:05:19,080
Speaker 2: and the interest rate, it turns out, is pretty painful.

1495
01:05:19,200 --> 01:05:21,120
Speaker 2: I think they charge you eleven or twelve percent interest,

1496
01:05:21,160 --> 01:05:24,439
Speaker 2: which is not essentially not that bad for UNSECURENT Yeah,

1497
01:05:24,480 --> 01:05:26,520
Speaker 2: well you say unsecured, but like the ATO when they

1498
01:05:26,600 --> 01:05:28,840
Speaker 2: knock on your door, like you know, it's not a

1499
01:05:28,840 --> 01:05:32,920
Speaker 2: happy day. It's like it's notionally unsecured, right, but like

1500
01:05:33,000 --> 01:05:34,360
Speaker 2: they rank pretty high in.

1501
01:05:34,320 --> 01:05:38,040
Speaker 1: The stack, and you and so, yeah.

1502
01:05:37,800 --> 01:05:39,720
Speaker 2: And they sit where do they sit? Honest? I mean

1503
01:05:39,800 --> 01:05:43,080
Speaker 2: I'm talking about personal stuff all, but this is equally applicable. Look,

1504
01:05:43,120 --> 01:05:44,960
Speaker 2: what I'm going to say now is business stuff. Yeah,

1505
01:05:45,120 --> 01:05:46,720
Speaker 2: and so you know where the AHO sits in business?

1506
01:05:46,720 --> 01:05:49,240
Speaker 2: They sit under employee titlements and superannuation, but they sit

1507
01:05:49,280 --> 01:05:52,320
Speaker 2: above everything else. So, like you say, it's unsecured, but

1508
01:05:52,320 --> 01:05:53,919
Speaker 2: it's not really unso good. So eleven or twlve percent

1509
01:05:54,000 --> 01:05:57,160
Speaker 2: is quite painful. But the kind of trade off to that,

1510
01:05:57,320 --> 01:05:59,800
Speaker 2: I guess, has been that people do use the ATO

1511
01:05:59,840 --> 01:06:03,760
Speaker 2: as bank as a lender because you can claim the

1512
01:06:03,920 --> 01:06:07,280
Speaker 2: interest as an expense. Be you aware of that?

1513
01:06:08,120 --> 01:06:10,080
Speaker 1: Well, I'll never actually unfortunately never had to deal with this,

1514
01:06:10,160 --> 01:06:11,960
Speaker 1: but no, I wasn't aware. But that makes sense.

1515
01:06:12,040 --> 01:06:13,920
Speaker 2: So you can claim the interests as an expense. It

1516
01:06:14,000 --> 01:06:17,280
Speaker 2: makes sense. And unfortunately it makes too much sense because

1517
01:06:17,320 --> 01:06:19,640
Speaker 2: that is now coming to an end. Oh really, so

1518
01:06:19,680 --> 01:06:23,080
Speaker 2: you will no longer be able to claim interest charges

1519
01:06:23,720 --> 01:06:27,360
Speaker 2: that the ATO charges you as an expense. So you

1520
01:06:27,440 --> 01:06:30,560
Speaker 2: might think, well that sucks, but the pudding is a

1521
01:06:30,600 --> 01:06:32,760
Speaker 2: lot thicker than that. To use an analogy that's never

1522
01:06:32,760 --> 01:06:35,320
Speaker 2: been used before by anyone and should never be used again.

1523
01:06:35,760 --> 01:06:38,400
Speaker 2: The situation is that whilst you can't claim interest that

1524
01:06:38,440 --> 01:06:41,320
Speaker 2: the ATO charges you for debt, you certainly can claim

1525
01:06:41,320 --> 01:06:44,400
Speaker 2: interest that a lender charges you for debt. And so

1526
01:06:44,480 --> 01:06:47,720
Speaker 2: now what I predict is going to happen, all of

1527
01:06:47,760 --> 01:06:50,680
Speaker 2: these people with ATO debts are going to find somewhere

1528
01:06:50,720 --> 01:06:53,560
Speaker 2: else to go and put their debt, and so yes,

1529
01:06:53,600 --> 01:06:55,240
Speaker 2: the ATO is going to get paid back all of

1530
01:06:55,280 --> 01:06:58,360
Speaker 2: this outstanding money, which might make the ATO feel good

1531
01:06:58,400 --> 01:07:00,000
Speaker 2: and the government feel good for a second, I doubt

1532
01:07:00,040 --> 01:07:02,560
Speaker 2: the government will care. What I suspect will see is

1533
01:07:02,560 --> 01:07:06,200
Speaker 2: a significant rise in lending to small business through a

1534
01:07:06,240 --> 01:07:10,080
Speaker 2: whole lot of probably unpleasant and unsecured methods like credit

1535
01:07:10,120 --> 01:07:12,760
Speaker 2: cards for example. Maybe there'll be business lends. I think

1536
01:07:12,800 --> 01:07:16,960
Speaker 2: there's a tremendous opportunity for business lenders to try and

1537
01:07:17,120 --> 01:07:21,959
Speaker 2: find the best of these, like the safest of these

1538
01:07:22,000 --> 01:07:24,880
Speaker 2: borrowers that currently have debts to the ATO, and try

1539
01:07:24,880 --> 01:07:27,320
Speaker 2: to lend the money, because there is just going to

1540
01:07:27,320 --> 01:07:29,760
Speaker 2: be a flight of debt away from using the ATO

1541
01:07:29,840 --> 01:07:32,000
Speaker 2: as a lender to private lenders in order to be

1542
01:07:32,040 --> 01:07:34,600
Speaker 2: able to claim the interest. Does that strike you as astonished?

1543
01:07:35,120 --> 01:07:37,400
Speaker 2: I know idea, I find it astonishing. It's a little bit.

1544
01:07:37,600 --> 01:07:39,120
Speaker 1: I visume the AEO is doing this too, because I

1545
01:07:39,160 --> 01:07:41,400
Speaker 1: don't want people to keep using to keep avoiding paying

1546
01:07:41,440 --> 01:07:44,280
Speaker 1: their taxes. But it is a bit weird that paying

1547
01:07:44,320 --> 01:07:46,720
Speaker 1: interest to THANK is deductable. Paying interest to the AHO

1548
01:07:46,840 --> 01:07:49,080
Speaker 1: isn't like I thought this. I thought the better solution

1549
01:07:49,160 --> 01:07:50,240
Speaker 1: is charging higher interest rate.

1550
01:07:50,320 --> 01:07:53,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think the HO has probably decided that we

1551
01:07:53,240 --> 01:07:55,960
Speaker 2: think that people are taking advantage of this fact that

1552
01:07:56,120 --> 01:07:57,760
Speaker 2: you know, you can owe us money and we charge

1553
01:07:57,800 --> 01:07:59,720
Speaker 2: your interest. By the way, you can't just do it,

1554
01:07:59,760 --> 01:08:02,040
Speaker 2: like you still have to negotiate it with the ATO,

1555
01:08:02,120 --> 01:08:03,520
Speaker 2: Like you can't just do it.

1556
01:08:03,840 --> 01:08:06,440
Speaker 1: And isn't it penalties as well as well as interests?

1557
01:08:06,480 --> 01:08:10,000
Speaker 2: There are penalties if you like, miss deadlines for paying

1558
01:08:10,040 --> 01:08:12,400
Speaker 2: a first lodging, et cetera. But this is just pure interest,

1559
01:08:12,440 --> 01:08:14,840
Speaker 2: Like you enter into a payment plan with the ATO

1560
01:08:15,360 --> 01:08:18,280
Speaker 2: and they charge you interest, and so I suspect that

1561
01:08:18,320 --> 01:08:20,280
Speaker 2: they've just decided that they don't want to do it.

1562
01:08:20,320 --> 01:08:23,000
Speaker 2: The thing is this, there will be a number of businesses.

1563
01:08:23,000 --> 01:08:25,320
Speaker 2: It won't be a small number that won't be able

1564
01:08:25,360 --> 01:08:27,760
Speaker 2: to borrow on good terms. I mean, some won't be

1565
01:08:27,800 --> 01:08:30,120
Speaker 2: able to borrow were all and they'll just go broke, right,

1566
01:08:30,200 --> 01:08:32,160
Speaker 2: but some will not be able to borrow on good terms.

1567
01:08:32,240 --> 01:08:34,280
Speaker 2: And so I suspect that like this is going to

1568
01:08:34,320 --> 01:08:38,040
Speaker 2: be quite bad news for a significant number of businesses

1569
01:08:38,240 --> 01:08:39,880
Speaker 2: and it will be interesting to see. I mean, we're

1570
01:08:39,880 --> 01:08:41,120
Speaker 2: never going to be able to get this data, but

1571
01:08:41,160 --> 01:08:43,479
Speaker 2: it would be interesting to know how many continue to

1572
01:08:43,479 --> 01:08:45,720
Speaker 2: borrow from the ATO after this change. I think it's

1573
01:08:45,720 --> 01:08:47,840
Speaker 2: from the first of July. I might be wrong. When

1574
01:08:47,840 --> 01:08:49,560
Speaker 2: I first read about this, I was astonished and I

1575
01:08:49,600 --> 01:08:50,960
Speaker 2: didn't think it was true, and that I did some

1576
01:08:50,960 --> 01:08:52,760
Speaker 2: more research and it absolutely is true.

1577
01:08:53,360 --> 01:08:54,560
Speaker 1: The one they've done now thinking about it, they just

1578
01:08:54,600 --> 01:08:57,320
Speaker 1: basically increasing just right, from twelve percent to sixteen percent.

1579
01:08:57,479 --> 01:08:59,360
Speaker 2: That's right what I've done, because.

1580
01:08:59,120 --> 01:09:00,559
Speaker 1: You look at you look at the AFT tax rate

1581
01:09:00,640 --> 01:09:03,799
Speaker 1: because the tax rate or sorry, they've increased it from

1582
01:09:04,320 --> 01:09:06,840
Speaker 1: nine percent to twelve percent because he was deductible and

1583
01:09:06,880 --> 01:09:07,280
Speaker 1: now it's not.

1584
01:09:07,720 --> 01:09:10,160
Speaker 2: So that's essentially what they've done. Yeah, that's exactly right.

1585
01:09:10,240 --> 01:09:13,240
Speaker 2: And to say, the exact wording from the ATO after

1586
01:09:13,280 --> 01:09:15,960
Speaker 2: the first July twenty twenty five, taxpayers will no longer

1587
01:09:16,000 --> 01:09:19,559
Speaker 2: be able to claim an interest tax deduction for AHO

1588
01:09:19,680 --> 01:09:23,400
Speaker 2: interest charges. So it is very specific to ATO interest churches.

1589
01:09:23,560 --> 01:09:26,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, and moving on to our final story. Has been

1590
01:09:26,880 --> 01:09:29,840
Speaker 1: all sorts of publicity, all sorts of newspaper articles flying

1591
01:09:29,880 --> 01:09:34,080
Speaker 1: about Australia's largest online travel agent, flights travel agent Webjet,

1592
01:09:34,120 --> 01:09:37,480
Speaker 1: which is subject of a bidding war between Ben Gray's

1593
01:09:37,680 --> 01:09:41,320
Speaker 1: massive private equity house BGH and also Andrew Burns and

1594
01:09:41,360 --> 01:09:44,559
Speaker 1: Gingierburns's Hello World. Ben Gray, like many in the market,

1595
01:09:44,720 --> 01:09:47,479
Speaker 1: had seen Webjet share price dropped to only forty four

1596
01:09:47,520 --> 01:09:51,320
Speaker 1: cents after it split from the bigger Webjet business, which

1597
01:09:51,360 --> 01:09:53,600
Speaker 1: is sort of bed bag now it's called webbeds. It

1598
01:09:53,680 --> 01:09:56,040
Speaker 1: was around a dollar when it spun off, dropped to

1599
01:09:56,120 --> 01:09:58,719
Speaker 1: forty four cents. That gives it gave it an enterprise

1600
01:09:58,800 --> 01:10:01,200
Speaker 1: value of just over one hundred million dollars. And bearing

1601
01:10:01,200 --> 01:10:05,080
Speaker 1: in mind Webjet delivered underlying EBITDA of around forty million

1602
01:10:05,080 --> 01:10:07,639
Speaker 1: a few weeks ago, so that was an EV multiple

1603
01:10:07,880 --> 01:10:10,080
Speaker 1: EBIT done multiple to EV of two and a half,

1604
01:10:10,160 --> 01:10:11,240
Speaker 1: So crazy cheap.

1605
01:10:11,320 --> 01:10:13,920
Speaker 2: It's a ton of debt in there that was skewing.

1606
01:10:14,040 --> 01:10:16,360
Speaker 1: Wow, there's net cash there's one hundred million dollars net

1607
01:10:16,360 --> 01:10:17,880
Speaker 1: catch got left with it the split, so there was

1608
01:10:18,040 --> 01:10:20,439
Speaker 1: it's share. It's market cap dropped about two hundred million

1609
01:10:20,439 --> 01:10:22,160
Speaker 1: and one hundred million dollar bucks of net cash.

1610
01:10:22,200 --> 01:10:24,360
Speaker 2: It was just just crazy cheap. Why weren't you talking

1611
01:10:24,360 --> 01:10:25,800
Speaker 2: to me about this four weeks so we could have

1612
01:10:25,840 --> 01:10:26,720
Speaker 2: put it in the portfolio.

1613
01:10:26,840 --> 01:10:29,559
Speaker 1: It was like people, I imagine a lot of people

1614
01:10:29,560 --> 01:10:32,120
Speaker 1: had spoken to us about it, so I was somewhat

1615
01:10:32,280 --> 01:10:33,679
Speaker 1: didn't want to really talk about it publicly.

1616
01:10:33,720 --> 01:10:36,120
Speaker 2: But it was a bit coy about it, right, yeah, yeah.

1617
01:10:35,920 --> 01:10:39,120
Speaker 1: But it was obviously, and we semi compete against Webjet.

1618
01:10:39,120 --> 01:10:40,880
Speaker 1: Good friends with Katrina who runs it and I think

1619
01:10:40,920 --> 01:10:42,960
Speaker 1: she's a fantastic CEO, and no John who runs the

1620
01:10:42,960 --> 01:10:45,759
Speaker 1: webed's business. So we sort of not not involved obviously,

1621
01:10:45,800 --> 01:10:48,080
Speaker 1: but sort of tangential to all this. Obviously, the ship

1622
01:10:48,120 --> 01:10:49,960
Speaker 1: I dropped forty four and then so drifted up to

1623
01:10:50,000 --> 01:10:53,080
Speaker 1: the mid fifties, and then Ben Gray started buying an

1624
01:10:53,080 --> 01:10:56,679
Speaker 1: eighty cents also with Gary Weese of Ariadne. I think

1625
01:10:56,880 --> 01:10:58,720
Speaker 1: that he's sort of private house, so it was a

1626
01:10:58,720 --> 01:11:01,880
Speaker 1: bit of abstraining should of bedfield there Obviously, Ben owns

1627
01:11:02,200 --> 01:11:04,800
Speaker 1: Billy Drojo, and Gary's involved with dream was and a

1628
01:11:04,840 --> 01:11:07,120
Speaker 1: bit of enemies on the Gold Coast and clearly friends here,

1629
01:11:07,400 --> 01:11:10,240
Speaker 1: and then bizarrely Hello World got involved on Hello World

1630
01:11:10,320 --> 01:11:12,559
Speaker 1: now has a fifteen percent stake in the business. So

1631
01:11:12,600 --> 01:11:16,040
Speaker 1: it's Andrew Burns's sort of old school travel agent which

1632
01:11:16,040 --> 01:11:18,599
Speaker 1: has really been struggling over the last few years. That's

1633
01:11:18,640 --> 01:11:21,679
Speaker 1: worth about two sixty million and trades at some single

1634
01:11:21,720 --> 01:11:22,720
Speaker 1: digits ebada.

1635
01:11:22,760 --> 01:11:26,760
Speaker 2: Well, that's a very very good buy for him in

1636
01:11:26,840 --> 01:11:30,120
Speaker 2: my view, because he's got this old business that really

1637
01:11:30,360 --> 01:11:33,360
Speaker 2: can't compete very well with flight Center, et cetera. And

1638
01:11:33,680 --> 01:11:36,240
Speaker 2: this is you know, despite the fact that you know,

1639
01:11:36,240 --> 01:11:38,920
Speaker 2: if he raises money at his single digit stuff might

1640
01:11:38,920 --> 01:11:41,479
Speaker 2: be earnings. Well, it'll still be earning secretive because it's

1641
01:11:41,520 --> 01:11:44,240
Speaker 2: so cheap, right websit. But even if it wasn't like

1642
01:11:44,320 --> 01:11:46,360
Speaker 2: I'd take that into his business if I was him, Like,

1643
01:11:46,400 --> 01:11:48,000
Speaker 2: that is a good thing to own for the future,

1644
01:11:48,000 --> 01:11:49,519
Speaker 2: if you're if you earn Hello World.

1645
01:11:49,840 --> 01:11:51,600
Speaker 1: No, well it's a few things. I mean, you know

1646
01:11:51,640 --> 01:11:54,120
Speaker 1: this world much better than I do, right, Like you'd

1647
01:11:54,160 --> 01:11:56,280
Speaker 1: hope I know it. But Ben's got much deeper pockets.

1648
01:11:56,320 --> 01:11:57,920
Speaker 1: He's got a multi billion dollar fun he's got a

1649
01:11:57,960 --> 01:12:00,000
Speaker 1: deploy and then Ben Clear just sees the value here.

1650
01:12:00,400 --> 01:12:02,080
Speaker 1: It's a bit like his tripa deal play that he

1651
01:12:02,120 --> 01:12:04,559
Speaker 1: saw great value and did a great trade and found

1652
01:12:04,560 --> 01:12:09,000
Speaker 1: his Patsy in Carmon at quantus loyalty and sold on

1653
01:12:09,000 --> 01:12:10,679
Speaker 1: a revenue multiples. That was one of the great trades

1654
01:12:10,720 --> 01:12:13,200
Speaker 1: of all time. But this one, I think Webjet's a

1655
01:12:13,240 --> 01:12:15,760
Speaker 1: pretty decent business. I think the problem is I think

1656
01:12:15,760 --> 01:12:19,080
Speaker 1: people are worried it's somewhat ex growth and to try

1657
01:12:19,080 --> 01:12:22,080
Speaker 1: and get growth back Katrina, I think rightfully, so was

1658
01:12:22,120 --> 01:12:24,519
Speaker 1: going to spend ten to fifteen million bucks just trying

1659
01:12:24,520 --> 01:12:26,320
Speaker 1: to get some growth again in this business.

1660
01:12:26,560 --> 01:12:27,280
Speaker 2: It wasn't dropping.

1661
01:12:27,280 --> 01:12:29,559
Speaker 1: It was kind of flatlining, and the market just didn't

1662
01:12:29,680 --> 01:12:31,599
Speaker 1: like it, and then it dropped out of the index

1663
01:12:31,680 --> 01:12:34,559
Speaker 1: and everyone had to deweigh it. So almost a reverse

1664
01:12:34,600 --> 01:12:37,479
Speaker 1: catapult in many ways. So it just got unloved unfairly

1665
01:12:37,520 --> 01:12:40,120
Speaker 1: in my view. But I think Webjet is a good business,

1666
01:12:40,479 --> 01:12:42,639
Speaker 1: albeit not a fast growing business, but a good business.

1667
01:12:42,760 --> 01:12:44,600
Speaker 1: Hello World, I don't think is a good business. I

1668
01:12:44,640 --> 01:12:47,320
Speaker 1: don't think anybody thinks Hello World's like a business. Webjet

1669
01:12:47,360 --> 01:12:49,600
Speaker 1: shareholders don't want to sell to Hello World. That'd be

1670
01:12:49,640 --> 01:12:52,400
Speaker 1: disaster for them. Well, hang on, aren't they paying cash? Well,

1671
01:12:52,439 --> 01:12:54,960
Speaker 1: who knows, that's the point they might try and pay scrack.

1672
01:12:55,040 --> 01:12:57,360
Speaker 2: Well, I agree with you, like Hello World stock is

1673
01:12:57,360 --> 01:12:58,519
Speaker 2: not the bargain of the century.

1674
01:12:58,560 --> 01:13:00,760
Speaker 1: They could never pay cash because web It's bigger than them,

1675
01:13:00,840 --> 01:13:02,120
Speaker 1: So I'm not sure how they can get the cash.

1676
01:13:02,280 --> 01:13:04,560
Speaker 2: Well, because they've got forty million dollars of ebitdat that

1677
01:13:04,600 --> 01:13:07,040
Speaker 2: you can borrow against with no doubt, Like, I mean,

1678
01:13:07,080 --> 01:13:10,240
Speaker 2: I think that that is presumably the private equity play

1679
01:13:10,320 --> 01:13:11,760
Speaker 2: is going to be using dead as well if it's

1680
01:13:11,800 --> 01:13:13,960
Speaker 2: generating free cash flow this business.

1681
01:13:14,040 --> 01:13:16,400
Speaker 1: Like so, yeah, but we thought Ben Ben's got much

1682
01:13:16,439 --> 01:13:19,280
Speaker 1: better access to finance than Andrew Burns at Hello World.

1683
01:13:19,320 --> 01:13:21,400
Speaker 2: I would have thought, yeah, but shouldn't this be worth

1684
01:13:21,600 --> 01:13:23,680
Speaker 2: much more to Hello World than it is to be?

1685
01:13:24,320 --> 01:13:27,440
Speaker 1: So you're suggesting their synergies between Hello World and webjet.

1686
01:13:27,240 --> 01:13:29,559
Speaker 2: And also a business that is on the way down

1687
01:13:29,880 --> 01:13:32,360
Speaker 2: that can you know? The thing about buying a business

1688
01:13:32,360 --> 01:13:35,160
Speaker 2: with forty mil on the ebit line that's flat is

1689
01:13:35,240 --> 01:13:38,479
Speaker 2: every year you get forty mil to go and do

1690
01:13:38,600 --> 01:13:41,800
Speaker 2: the next thing with, and a ton of customers and

1691
01:13:41,880 --> 01:13:43,280
Speaker 2: brand to do the next thing with.

1692
01:13:43,520 --> 01:13:45,479
Speaker 1: Just a just a cloud. It's forty mil ebitda but

1693
01:13:45,479 --> 01:13:47,519
Speaker 1: it's twenty mili net all right, Well that's all right.

1694
01:13:47,600 --> 01:13:48,559
Speaker 2: That a big gap there.

1695
01:13:48,720 --> 01:13:50,560
Speaker 1: I'm not saying it's not a good bit. I'm just

1696
01:13:50,640 --> 01:13:53,280
Speaker 1: not sure a struggling business like Hello World should be

1697
01:13:53,280 --> 01:13:56,360
Speaker 1: buying an okay to potentially good business like Webjet.

1698
01:13:56,520 --> 01:13:57,439
Speaker 2: I think it's great the webs.

1699
01:13:57,760 --> 01:14:00,280
Speaker 1: I think Katrina running Webjet because John Good, he was

1700
01:14:00,320 --> 01:14:02,519
Speaker 1: running the whole combined business, didn't care about this yere.

1701
01:14:02,680 --> 01:14:04,960
Speaker 1: He was building this massive webeds business that was really smoking,

1702
01:14:05,040 --> 01:14:07,160
Speaker 1: and that's a two billion dollar business. He was rightfully

1703
01:14:07,360 --> 01:14:10,679
Speaker 1: diverting his attention to webbeds. And now Katrina, who's a great exec,

1704
01:14:10,760 --> 01:14:12,519
Speaker 1: is running it. I think it's the right thing to do.

1705
01:14:12,760 --> 01:14:15,439
Speaker 1: I'm just not sure. I think as a BGH purchase

1706
01:14:15,479 --> 01:14:18,719
Speaker 1: is probably a pretty good purchase. And Ben's obviously Ben's

1707
01:14:18,720 --> 01:14:20,160
Speaker 1: got a reputation of being the best pe guy in

1708
01:14:20,160 --> 01:14:22,400
Speaker 1: the country for a reason. He's seeing the value there.

1709
01:14:22,560 --> 01:14:24,240
Speaker 1: I can see why that makes sense. I can't see

1710
01:14:24,240 --> 01:14:25,640
Speaker 1: how it makes sense for Hollow World to buy this.

1711
01:14:25,880 --> 01:14:28,320
Speaker 2: Well, it's interesting. I mean, I also think if it's

1712
01:14:28,320 --> 01:14:30,720
Speaker 2: throwing off twenty mil of end pat and it's worth

1713
01:14:30,720 --> 01:14:32,800
Speaker 2: two hundred mil. But there's one hundred mili of cash,

1714
01:14:32,840 --> 01:14:34,639
Speaker 2: So let's say it's five times.

1715
01:14:34,920 --> 01:14:37,200
Speaker 1: So it's just now it's gone out at the bid

1716
01:14:37,200 --> 01:14:40,840
Speaker 1: prices three hundred and twenty, so that's three twenty all

1717
01:14:40,880 --> 01:14:42,759
Speaker 1: those netcash two hundred eight.

1718
01:14:42,640 --> 01:14:44,519
Speaker 2: So two hundred let's even call it.

1719
01:14:44,760 --> 01:14:47,040
Speaker 1: Two hundred two hundred after its net cash.

1720
01:14:47,120 --> 01:14:50,280
Speaker 2: Yet, unless you think you can do something to this business,

1721
01:14:50,720 --> 01:14:54,479
Speaker 2: then paying ten times end PAT for this business is

1722
01:14:54,520 --> 01:14:54,960
Speaker 2: not cheap.

1723
01:14:55,200 --> 01:14:57,840
Speaker 1: I'm not sure there's any great synergies between Hello world

1724
01:14:57,840 --> 01:15:00,639
Speaker 1: and Webjet Webjets online, Hello World's off. There's a bit

1725
01:15:00,680 --> 01:15:03,679
Speaker 1: of scale you can arguably get, but they're still ways

1726
01:15:03,760 --> 01:15:06,679
Speaker 1: more than flight Center if you're looking at scale, I'm

1727
01:15:06,680 --> 01:15:09,479
Speaker 1: just not sure there's anything. And John always ran this

1728
01:15:09,479 --> 01:15:11,559
Speaker 1: business super leans. I don't think there's that much to

1729
01:15:11,640 --> 01:15:14,880
Speaker 1: chop at a webjet. It's a well run business. I

1730
01:15:14,960 --> 01:15:15,880
Speaker 1: just don't see it.

1731
01:15:15,960 --> 01:15:17,760
Speaker 2: Why does flight Center not just buy it and get

1732
01:15:17,760 --> 01:15:19,920
Speaker 2: it out of the market. That's a good question. Maybe

1733
01:15:19,920 --> 01:15:22,960
Speaker 2: it's just not meaningful enough for them flight Center. My

1734
01:15:23,040 --> 01:15:26,200
Speaker 2: understanding is flight Center is a business where what makes

1735
01:15:26,240 --> 01:15:28,720
Speaker 2: the money is volume. Is that pretty much the way

1736
01:15:28,720 --> 01:15:31,200
Speaker 2: that business works, and so they just get to buy

1737
01:15:31,200 --> 01:15:33,800
Speaker 2: a whole lot more volume with webjets. Can't they work

1738
01:15:33,960 --> 01:15:35,560
Speaker 2: at pretty easily what they should pay for it.

1739
01:15:35,680 --> 01:15:37,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, Flighty has done a pretty good job with the

1740
01:15:37,080 --> 01:15:39,160
Speaker 1: own Beetty brand, which is kind of a similar version

1741
01:15:39,200 --> 01:15:39,679
Speaker 1: of Webjet.

1742
01:15:39,720 --> 01:15:42,880
Speaker 2: It's an online discount ota for flights. I think it.

1743
01:15:43,280 --> 01:15:45,240
Speaker 1: I always thought it made more sense for flighties to

1744
01:15:45,240 --> 01:15:47,840
Speaker 1: buy it than how Hello thing just makes no sense

1745
01:15:47,880 --> 01:15:50,200
Speaker 1: to me. Bja things make sense. Flighters would make sense.

1746
01:15:50,760 --> 01:15:53,320
Speaker 1: I don't get Hello World Andrew throwing his weight around.

1747
01:15:53,479 --> 01:15:54,920
Speaker 1: That doesn't make much sense to me. This is a

1748
01:15:54,920 --> 01:15:57,439
Speaker 1: business that's worth two sixty million and struggling. It's a

1749
01:15:57,439 --> 01:16:00,200
Speaker 1: shrink Hello World's a shrinking business. It's a bricks more

1750
01:16:00,240 --> 01:16:03,479
Speaker 1: to business that effectively makes money from franchise like selling

1751
01:16:03,520 --> 01:16:06,759
Speaker 1: services to franchise ease. It's just a not a business

1752
01:16:06,760 --> 01:16:09,680
Speaker 1: that I'd want to invest in. Whereas Webjet. Who's going

1753
01:16:09,720 --> 01:16:12,719
Speaker 1: to win? I would have thought BGH is more likely,

1754
01:16:13,600 --> 01:16:15,400
Speaker 1: But this is still pretty It's pretty early days in

1755
01:16:15,400 --> 01:16:17,120
Speaker 1: this battle, and Ben might just not want to pay.

1756
01:16:17,760 --> 01:16:20,280
Speaker 1: This might end up sort of been bit up to it. Well,

1757
01:16:20,520 --> 01:16:23,400
Speaker 1: who knows, Like I think to get Webjet shows to sell.

1758
01:16:23,400 --> 01:16:24,800
Speaker 1: They're sort of talking needs to go up to dollar

1759
01:16:24,800 --> 01:16:27,559
Speaker 1: thirty dollars forty dollars fifty. I'm not sure BGH want

1760
01:16:27,560 --> 01:16:30,280
Speaker 1: to pay that, and Hello Worlds clearly can't pay that.

1761
01:16:30,439 --> 01:16:32,439
Speaker 1: So if it's sort of that level, maybe nobody buys

1762
01:16:32,439 --> 01:16:34,280
Speaker 1: it and they just get stuck with these steaks.

1763
01:16:34,439 --> 01:16:36,559
Speaker 2: And did BGH by trip a deal on a revenue

1764
01:16:36,600 --> 01:16:38,120
Speaker 2: multiple or an earnings multiple?

1765
01:16:38,240 --> 01:16:41,360
Speaker 1: Oh, the BGH originally bought Tripper deal in mid COVID

1766
01:16:41,400 --> 01:16:44,439
Speaker 1: on a survival multiple like it was. They paid fifty million, right,

1767
01:16:44,479 --> 01:16:46,280
Speaker 1: so the fifty million ev and it was would have

1768
01:16:46,280 --> 01:16:49,559
Speaker 1: died without it. So and what did they sell it

1769
01:16:49,560 --> 01:16:52,160
Speaker 1: to kwantas for it was about three hundred I think all.

1770
01:16:52,080 --> 01:16:54,000
Speaker 2: Right, So they basically six x their money in two

1771
01:16:54,080 --> 01:16:56,920
Speaker 2: years because they were prepared to be an owner of

1772
01:16:57,040 --> 01:16:57,719
Speaker 2: Last Resource.

1773
01:16:57,800 --> 01:17:00,559
Speaker 1: Well, they six x their money because they bought pretty well.

1774
01:17:00,960 --> 01:17:05,120
Speaker 1: But more importantly, they like Quantus, just massively overpaid. I'm

1775
01:17:05,120 --> 01:17:07,920
Speaker 1: not in Quantus. We're in a way compete with Quantus

1776
01:17:08,160 --> 01:17:11,280
Speaker 1: at Countas Hotel's business, but I don't think many people

1777
01:17:11,320 --> 01:17:13,360
Speaker 1: inside Quantus, and obviously this is a new Guard. I'm

1778
01:17:13,360 --> 01:17:15,920
Speaker 1: pretty sure your mate John wouldn't touch this. Alan Joyce

1779
01:17:15,960 --> 01:17:18,200
Speaker 1: was there at the time, Olivia was there at the time.

1780
01:17:18,320 --> 01:17:21,439
Speaker 1: Carmen who was CFO was running at AT was there

1781
01:17:21,479 --> 01:17:23,360
Speaker 1: as well. All these people aren't there anymore. I don't

1782
01:17:23,360 --> 01:17:25,080
Speaker 1: thin there's many people who would be happy to take

1783
01:17:25,200 --> 01:17:27,320
Speaker 1: credit for this tripa deeal thing. I don't if they want.

1784
01:17:27,320 --> 01:17:29,479
Speaker 1: It doesn't fit with the brand. It's completely off brand

1785
01:17:29,520 --> 01:17:31,439
Speaker 1: compared to the rest of quantas. I've been stuck with

1786
01:17:31,479 --> 01:17:33,840
Speaker 1: this thing that it's probably make him ten to fifteen

1787
01:17:33,880 --> 01:17:35,880
Speaker 1: million bucks, but there's a bit of gift back on

1788
01:17:35,920 --> 01:17:39,519
Speaker 1: the points the way the Quantus give more generous points

1789
01:17:39,520 --> 01:17:42,160
Speaker 1: burn So I think Reality Tripper deal doesn't make anything.

1790
01:17:42,439 --> 01:17:44,720
Speaker 1: It's just being a millstone for them. I think Ben

1791
01:17:44,760 --> 01:17:45,839
Speaker 1: did an absolute number.

1792
01:17:45,640 --> 01:17:47,559
Speaker 2: On them there. Well, that's how private could he work now?

1793
01:17:47,600 --> 01:17:50,080
Speaker 1: And Ben's though we saw Ben plute Meyer for the

1794
01:17:50,120 --> 01:17:52,280
Speaker 1: best price that it was ever sort of traded at.

1795
01:17:52,320 --> 01:17:54,800
Speaker 1: So here's the master of this stuff also, and he

1796
01:17:54,800 --> 01:17:57,000
Speaker 1: also bought Village. I think very well. I say him

1797
01:17:57,080 --> 01:17:59,320
Speaker 1: is obviously there's Steve Good's, there's a bunch of people.

1798
01:17:59,360 --> 01:18:01,840
Speaker 1: There's Roberts up there, Robin Bishop. He doesn't get it.

1799
01:18:01,880 --> 01:18:03,599
Speaker 1: He doesn't get a lot of credit Robin Bishop does.

1800
01:18:03,640 --> 01:18:05,960
Speaker 1: He's been obviously mcquarie's deal man. He was on the

1801
01:18:05,960 --> 01:18:08,400
Speaker 1: AFL commissioner. He sort of stays behind the scenes, but

1802
01:18:08,840 --> 01:18:11,679
Speaker 1: they tend to buy very well. I suspect this will

1803
01:18:11,680 --> 01:18:13,720
Speaker 1: get too expensive and they'll just opt out and maybe

1804
01:18:13,720 --> 01:18:15,920
Speaker 1: they'lso less stay for a profit. My gut feel now

1805
01:18:16,000 --> 01:18:17,800
Speaker 1: is this doesn't trade. I don't think hell I well

1806
01:18:17,840 --> 01:18:19,360
Speaker 1: can do it, and I think it'll get too expensive

1807
01:18:19,400 --> 01:18:20,719
Speaker 1: for bgh. He's my gut fit.

1808
01:18:20,800 --> 01:18:22,519
Speaker 2: Very interesting, Well, that would be a good call if

1809
01:18:22,560 --> 01:18:23,040
Speaker 2: you get that right.

1810
01:18:23,160 --> 01:18:25,040
Speaker 1: Anthony we Donald Wrot a great article yesterday for The

1811
01:18:25,200 --> 01:18:28,000
Speaker 1: Fire definitely worth a read, just talking about this transaction.

1812
01:18:28,320 --> 01:18:30,080
Speaker 1: And this is what Anthony does really well, talk about

1813
01:18:30,080 --> 01:18:31,720
Speaker 1: it to M and A deals happening, and there was

1814
01:18:31,760 --> 01:18:33,880
Speaker 1: just so little happening in the market that we get

1815
01:18:33,920 --> 01:18:36,800
Speaker 1: excited about these sort of deals when really be like

1816
01:18:37,040 --> 01:18:39,000
Speaker 1: we're talking about sort of web jets of three hundred

1817
01:18:39,000 --> 01:18:41,000
Speaker 1: million dollar business. Hello, World's two fifty. None of this,

1818
01:18:41,240 --> 01:18:43,240
Speaker 1: none of this stuff is overly exciting to most people,

1819
01:18:43,840 --> 01:18:46,160
Speaker 1: maybe other than us and the M and A junkies

1820
01:18:46,400 --> 01:18:47,639
Speaker 1: and the lawyers and the bankers out there.

1821
01:18:47,640 --> 01:18:49,439
Speaker 2: Did you before we go? Can I just say, did

1822
01:18:49,520 --> 01:18:52,360
Speaker 2: you see Google? So we talked about Warby Parker a lot.

1823
01:18:52,400 --> 01:18:54,080
Speaker 2: Do you see Google just pumped I think one hundred

1824
01:18:54,080 --> 01:18:57,759
Speaker 2: and fifty million dollars into Warby Parker. Warby Parker. Yep, No,

1825
01:18:57,840 --> 01:18:59,719
Speaker 2: I did not see that. I thought you'd be interested

1826
01:18:59,720 --> 01:19:01,720
Speaker 2: in this. So I don't like Warby Parker. You like

1827
01:19:01,760 --> 01:19:03,840
Speaker 2: it a lot more than I do. I do like it.

1828
01:19:03,920 --> 01:19:06,400
Speaker 2: I know, yeah, I like it. I like Lexotica. You

1829
01:19:06,439 --> 01:19:09,600
Speaker 2: also like Lexotica, but I don't like Warby Parker. Yeah,

1830
01:19:09,840 --> 01:19:12,040
Speaker 2: but Google like Harby Parker because Google looked at the

1831
01:19:12,040 --> 01:19:15,200
Speaker 2: success of Meta and what it did with ray Band

1832
01:19:15,439 --> 01:19:18,960
Speaker 2: and said, Google Glass, that went badly. That was a shocker.

1833
01:19:19,280 --> 01:19:21,559
Speaker 2: We've got to do something better than Google Glass if

1834
01:19:21,600 --> 01:19:23,640
Speaker 2: we're going to compete with Meta and ray Band. And

1835
01:19:23,680 --> 01:19:25,760
Speaker 2: so their answer is, we'll go and give one hundred

1836
01:19:25,800 --> 01:19:28,280
Speaker 2: and fifty million dollars to Warby Parker and buy a

1837
01:19:28,360 --> 01:19:30,439
Speaker 2: chunk of equity in it, and they'll use it to

1838
01:19:30,439 --> 01:19:32,920
Speaker 2: build out I guess the next version of Google Glass.

1839
01:19:33,360 --> 01:19:37,120
Speaker 2: That's a very very interesting transaction. I guess. The thing

1840
01:19:37,240 --> 01:19:39,880
Speaker 2: is that Warby Parker does get their own frames manufactured,

1841
01:19:40,360 --> 01:19:43,920
Speaker 2: and so whilst they're no le Exotica. That is for sure.

1842
01:19:44,120 --> 01:19:47,280
Speaker 2: It's an interesting partnership. I think for Warby Parker is

1843
01:19:47,320 --> 01:19:51,160
Speaker 2: the partnership of a lifetime. Personally, totally yeah, I think

1844
01:19:51,320 --> 01:19:53,679
Speaker 2: great note Way Parkers are smart and I that' built

1845
01:19:53,680 --> 01:19:55,760
Speaker 2: a great business. It's a It's not something I would

1846
01:19:55,800 --> 01:19:59,120
Speaker 2: have expected ever that Google would even think about doing this.

1847
01:19:59,200 --> 01:20:01,320
Speaker 2: It seems so kind of irrelevant for them. Well that's

1848
01:20:01,360 --> 01:20:03,400
Speaker 2: what I love and hate a bad business. You go

1849
01:20:03,439 --> 01:20:06,320
Speaker 2: and build this business and you do fundamentals and like

1850
01:20:06,479 --> 01:20:08,679
Speaker 2: I don't know, ninety nine times out of one hundred,

1851
01:20:08,840 --> 01:20:10,880
Speaker 2: it's all about the fundamentals. If you build a business

1852
01:20:10,880 --> 01:20:12,479
Speaker 2: that makes money to good business and if you don't,

1853
01:20:12,520 --> 01:20:15,000
Speaker 2: it's not. And then one time out of one hundred,

1854
01:20:15,120 --> 01:20:17,599
Speaker 2: something comes along, like Google goes and does a partnership

1855
01:20:17,600 --> 01:20:19,400
Speaker 2: for one hundred and fifty mili or tripid. You'll gets

1856
01:20:19,400 --> 01:20:23,080
Speaker 2: brought on a revenue multiple and you're just like like,

1857
01:20:23,120 --> 01:20:24,479
Speaker 2: why can't I get those deals?

1858
01:20:25,800 --> 01:20:28,240
Speaker 1: It's your golden window theory. You get these even sort

1859
01:20:28,240 --> 01:20:29,719
Speaker 1: of bad businesses get golden windows.

1860
01:20:29,720 --> 01:20:31,600
Speaker 2: Okay, well this's is even This is more than a

1861
01:20:31,640 --> 01:20:35,000
Speaker 2: golden window, right, this is like basically God just smiled

1862
01:20:35,040 --> 01:20:37,240
Speaker 2: down on you and said, well, you're a monk in

1863
01:20:37,280 --> 01:20:39,439
Speaker 2: a former life, so I'll give you a break. That's

1864
01:20:39,600 --> 01:20:40,360
Speaker 2: that's what this is.

1865
01:20:40,560 --> 01:20:43,639
Speaker 1: Speaking of Google, just alphabet just I saw this article

1866
01:20:43,640 --> 01:20:47,439
Speaker 1: in the journal last week. My favorite company, Weimo. You

1867
01:20:47,479 --> 01:20:50,439
Speaker 1: know how much I love autonomous cars. How's this for growth?

1868
01:20:50,560 --> 01:20:53,479
Speaker 1: In August twenty twenty three, Wimo was doing ten thousand

1869
01:20:53,560 --> 01:20:55,439
Speaker 1: rides a week. How many do you think it's doing now?

1870
01:20:55,800 --> 01:20:58,040
Speaker 1: This is not even two years.

1871
01:20:57,880 --> 01:21:02,559
Speaker 2: Ago, two hundred let's say two years later, I will

1872
01:21:02,600 --> 01:21:06,160
Speaker 2: say two hundred to two hundred and fifty thousand.

1873
01:21:06,240 --> 01:21:07,960
Speaker 1: Yes, you've got it, two hundred fifty thousand, So that's

1874
01:21:07,960 --> 01:21:08,920
Speaker 1: twenty five xt.

1875
01:21:08,960 --> 01:21:11,720
Speaker 2: In under two years. Oh there you go, There you go.

1876
01:21:11,880 --> 01:21:13,960
Speaker 2: I figured it probably twenty twenty or thirty X in

1877
01:21:14,000 --> 01:21:16,200
Speaker 2: two years. Yet like it's been. I mean that in fairness,

1878
01:21:16,200 --> 01:21:19,400
Speaker 2: they've got no competition, so we know, great product, market

1879
01:21:19,400 --> 01:21:21,680
Speaker 2: fit and no competition. Like that's a happy place to be.

1880
01:21:21,800 --> 01:21:24,040
Speaker 2: It's not where they're going to stay right, So effectively

1881
01:21:24,040 --> 01:21:26,200
Speaker 2: their growth is now how fast they can roll it out.

1882
01:21:26,320 --> 01:21:30,280
Speaker 2: But Elon's coming supposedly, so he'll launch his robotaxi. But

1883
01:21:30,520 --> 01:21:32,800
Speaker 2: this market is like think how big this market is?

1884
01:21:32,880 --> 01:21:34,599
Speaker 2: Like and not only is this market's in this market

1885
01:21:34,640 --> 01:21:36,960
Speaker 2: will just take over the actual sort of people driving

1886
01:21:36,960 --> 01:21:39,320
Speaker 2: cars market. This is just like in the moment, sort

1887
01:21:39,320 --> 01:21:43,280
Speaker 2: of competing against Uber and stuff. But this is that's incredible. This.

1888
01:21:43,400 --> 01:21:46,479
Speaker 2: I have not changed my view one percent. We don't

1889
01:21:46,479 --> 01:21:48,640
Speaker 2: know where the valuehand autonomous vehicles is going to be,

1890
01:21:48,640 --> 01:21:51,360
Speaker 2: but it might be nowhere for any company. And Google

1891
01:21:51,600 --> 01:21:54,240
Speaker 2: has got a worse future than it's past because even

1892
01:21:54,280 --> 01:21:56,840
Speaker 2: if it wins with way Mo, it will lose the

1893
01:21:56,880 --> 01:22:00,280
Speaker 2: magical monopoly it has with search. So, like I, I

1894
01:22:00,320 --> 01:22:02,320
Speaker 2: haven't changed my views based on any of this. I'm

1895
01:22:02,400 --> 01:22:04,160
Speaker 2: very worried that nobody will end up making a lot

1896
01:22:04,160 --> 01:22:08,040
Speaker 2: of money out of out of autonomous vehicles, but very

1897
01:22:08,040 --> 01:22:11,360
Speaker 2: happily the industry will revolutionize transportation for human being.

1898
01:22:11,439 --> 01:22:13,439
Speaker 1: I think you could very well be right there on

1899
01:22:13,479 --> 01:22:17,600
Speaker 1: the court. Our commodity are cars like airlines, like airlines,

1900
01:22:17,640 --> 01:22:20,439
Speaker 1: where the value has just been shifted to consumers away

1901
01:22:20,479 --> 01:22:21,479
Speaker 1: from sellers.

1902
01:22:21,479 --> 01:22:22,920
Speaker 2: Look, I don't know the answer to this, but would

1903
01:22:22,960 --> 01:22:26,200
Speaker 2: you rather be United slash Delta slash American or would

1904
01:22:26,200 --> 01:22:28,960
Speaker 2: you rather be Boeing slash air Bus the latter right

1905
01:22:29,000 --> 01:22:29,639
Speaker 2: bowing Airbus.

1906
01:22:29,680 --> 01:22:33,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure, absolute despite Boeings incompetence, it's still worth

1907
01:22:33,080 --> 01:22:34,519
Speaker 1: what at fifty billion or whatever they're worth.

1908
01:22:34,640 --> 01:22:36,559
Speaker 2: And so that is a false question that I've just

1909
01:22:36,600 --> 01:22:39,519
Speaker 2: asked you, and the false equivalents, because the thing is,

1910
01:22:39,560 --> 01:22:41,840
Speaker 2: it's very hard to make a plane like China's trying

1911
01:22:41,840 --> 01:22:43,760
Speaker 2: to make this nine to one nine or whatever it's

1912
01:22:43,800 --> 01:22:46,040
Speaker 2: called plane to compete with a seven three seven, and

1913
01:22:46,080 --> 01:22:48,720
Speaker 2: they are flying for China Eastern or whoever. But they're

1914
01:22:48,760 --> 01:22:50,439
Speaker 2: bloody hard to make and they need a lot of

1915
01:22:50,479 --> 01:22:53,080
Speaker 2: American ingenuity to even get it made. It took ten

1916
01:22:53,160 --> 01:22:55,280
Speaker 2: years or five years longer than they thought. So planes

1917
01:22:55,320 --> 01:22:58,160
Speaker 2: are hard, but like aircraft. But cars are not hard.

1918
01:22:58,160 --> 01:22:59,559
Speaker 2: Autonomous cars are not hard.

1919
01:22:59,800 --> 01:23:01,760
Speaker 1: Not hard, but nobody else has been able to do

1920
01:23:01,800 --> 01:23:04,000
Speaker 1: them so and everybody else has died.

1921
01:23:04,479 --> 01:23:07,080
Speaker 2: They're very hard. So nobody else has been able to

1922
01:23:07,080 --> 01:23:10,080
Speaker 2: put the software and sensor tech in a car and

1923
01:23:10,120 --> 01:23:12,519
Speaker 2: make it work. So the car is not hard. The

1924
01:23:12,600 --> 01:23:16,519
Speaker 2: car is easy. Oh yeah, forget the car autonomous car.

1925
01:23:16,640 --> 01:23:21,800
Speaker 2: But we say pieces car easy, sensors commoditized, but someone

1926
01:23:21,840 --> 01:23:24,200
Speaker 2: has to figure out how to make them work with software.

1927
01:23:24,360 --> 01:23:27,800
Speaker 2: So magic is software for autonomous cars probably, And so

1928
01:23:27,880 --> 01:23:30,559
Speaker 2: my thesis is not for long, Like, I think lots

1929
01:23:30,600 --> 01:23:32,040
Speaker 2: of people will be able to make software that's good

1930
01:23:32,080 --> 01:23:34,160
Speaker 2: for autonomous cars. And so then you say, maybe the

1931
01:23:34,200 --> 01:23:37,160
Speaker 2: magic is the network like Uber. Maybe, but I think

1932
01:23:37,200 --> 01:23:39,120
Speaker 2: it's very unclear to me who to bet on with

1933
01:23:39,200 --> 01:23:41,080
Speaker 2: autonomous cars. I think that's a fair point.

1934
01:23:41,320 --> 01:23:43,200
Speaker 1: I think Waymo's got such a big lead, though, Like

1935
01:23:43,240 --> 01:23:45,240
Speaker 1: we'll see how Elon goes with Tesla in the next month,

1936
01:23:45,320 --> 01:23:47,840
Speaker 1: because this is sort of not doing or die, but

1937
01:23:47,880 --> 01:23:48,840
Speaker 1: this is sort of the time.

1938
01:23:49,000 --> 01:23:51,000
Speaker 2: Well, he's out of Doge, so he's got time on

1939
01:23:51,080 --> 01:23:53,360
Speaker 2: his hands. He's only got nineteen businesses to run now,

1940
01:23:53,439 --> 01:23:55,240
Speaker 2: not twenty things, So we'll see how he goes.

1941
01:23:55,320 --> 01:23:56,760
Speaker 1: Want to put back to that point on Google, because

1942
01:23:56,760 --> 01:23:58,000
Speaker 1: I was thinking about it during the week and you

1943
01:23:58,080 --> 01:24:00,280
Speaker 1: just mentioned how Google's about to lose their search or

1944
01:24:00,320 --> 01:24:02,679
Speaker 1: that drop it. I've ropped below ninety percent in search.

1945
01:24:03,120 --> 01:24:06,000
Speaker 1: I'm just thinking there's no question that Google, I use

1946
01:24:06,040 --> 01:24:08,240
Speaker 1: Perplexity way more than Google. I've talked about this already.

1947
01:24:08,320 --> 01:24:12,040
Speaker 1: AI search for information will continue to obviously drift away

1948
01:24:12,040 --> 01:24:14,000
Speaker 1: from Google. Obviously Google has to make money on that stuff.

1949
01:24:14,000 --> 01:24:16,160
Speaker 1: Google makes money on effectially searches where people are going

1950
01:24:16,200 --> 01:24:18,080
Speaker 1: to buy stuff. That's where it makes all this money,

1951
01:24:18,080 --> 01:24:20,240
Speaker 1: because that's where peop are going to pack. The question is,

1952
01:24:20,640 --> 01:24:24,120
Speaker 1: when you're buying stuff, is AI a better or worse

1953
01:24:24,160 --> 01:24:26,599
Speaker 1: experience to customer? And I think about this a lot

1954
01:24:26,840 --> 01:24:29,200
Speaker 1: because our business is a highly disruptible way in terms

1955
01:24:29,200 --> 01:24:32,000
Speaker 1: of are we just a search layer above a data

1956
01:24:32,560 --> 01:24:36,599
Speaker 1: data lake essentially as a travel retailer, So I think

1957
01:24:36,640 --> 01:24:38,920
Speaker 1: about it all the time. It's tangential, it's existential to

1958
01:24:38,960 --> 01:24:42,800
Speaker 1: our business. And my gut feel is there's a big

1959
01:24:42,840 --> 01:24:46,640
Speaker 1: element of the shopping experience that people Actually it's the

1960
01:24:46,680 --> 01:24:50,080
Speaker 1: reason why retail stores exist. People want to browse more

1961
01:24:50,120 --> 01:24:52,600
Speaker 1: than one thing. AI gives you essentially one thing or

1962
01:24:52,640 --> 01:24:55,400
Speaker 1: one or two things. I think the shopping browsing experience

1963
01:24:55,439 --> 01:24:58,760
Speaker 1: is much better suited to a Google search environment than

1964
01:24:58,800 --> 01:25:02,719
Speaker 1: an AI environment. I'm not as negative on Google search

1965
01:25:02,880 --> 01:25:03,680
Speaker 1: business as you are.

1966
01:25:03,760 --> 01:25:05,600
Speaker 2: Okay, well, let me talk about how this stuff is

1967
01:25:05,640 --> 01:25:07,800
Speaker 2: working now, which is interesting. So firstly, let's take out

1968
01:25:07,800 --> 01:25:10,120
Speaker 2: shopping in person, because like, if you're going to shop

1969
01:25:10,120 --> 01:25:12,360
Speaker 2: in person, you're not using Google Search either, so forget

1970
01:25:12,400 --> 01:25:14,719
Speaker 2: about that. So we'll take that out. We'll just compare

1971
01:25:14,800 --> 01:25:17,880
Speaker 2: Google search experience with what AI can do. So today,

1972
01:25:17,880 --> 01:25:21,680
Speaker 2: if you go into chet GPT or claud Anthropic and

1973
01:25:21,720 --> 01:25:24,360
Speaker 2: you start having a conversation to try to figure out

1974
01:25:24,479 --> 01:25:27,559
Speaker 2: I don't know, like what product, what's what's sofa to buy?

1975
01:25:27,560 --> 01:25:30,439
Speaker 2: That'd be harder, like what washing machine to buy. You'll

1976
01:25:30,439 --> 01:25:33,200
Speaker 2: have a conversation and it will pull good data, but

1977
01:25:33,640 --> 01:25:36,360
Speaker 2: a lot of what it's pulling is actually Google Search.

1978
01:25:36,479 --> 01:25:38,280
Speaker 2: As it happens, so it's going on to Google Search,

1979
01:25:38,320 --> 01:25:41,360
Speaker 2: it's just searching different keywords to the keywords you would search,

1980
01:25:41,400 --> 01:25:43,120
Speaker 2: and so I won't go into all of the stuff there.

1981
01:25:43,160 --> 01:25:45,559
Speaker 2: I'm actually meeting a guy in Israel who has a

1982
01:25:45,640 --> 01:25:49,800
Speaker 2: firm that specializes in optimization for AI for generative AI.

1983
01:25:50,000 --> 01:25:54,040
Speaker 2: But it's still heavily using Google searching and Internet search.

1984
01:25:54,560 --> 01:25:58,480
Speaker 2: So then the question becomes, is that a better experience

1985
01:25:58,720 --> 01:26:01,920
Speaker 2: or not? My you is It's hard for me to

1986
01:26:02,000 --> 01:26:05,559
Speaker 2: imagine how it's not a better experience, because if you

1987
01:26:05,560 --> 01:26:08,320
Speaker 2: can imagine in any product that you want to buy,

1988
01:26:08,800 --> 01:26:11,360
Speaker 2: talking to someone who is an expert in that product

1989
01:26:11,439 --> 01:26:13,439
Speaker 2: and being able to have a conversation with them about

1990
01:26:13,439 --> 01:26:15,160
Speaker 2: what you should buy, and then they push you in

1991
01:26:15,200 --> 01:26:17,559
Speaker 2: the right direction. I would even go so far as

1992
01:26:17,560 --> 01:26:20,640
Speaker 2: to say even if that's not objectively a better outcome.

1993
01:26:20,960 --> 01:26:24,040
Speaker 2: It will be a better, more intuitive experience for the shopper.

1994
01:26:24,240 --> 01:26:27,839
Speaker 2: And I definitely think that a huge amount of online

1995
01:26:27,920 --> 01:26:31,680
Speaker 2: shopping on which Google is monetizing keywords right now, is

1996
01:26:31,720 --> 01:26:35,679
Speaker 2: going to shift to an AI mediated conversation for decision making.

1997
01:26:35,840 --> 01:26:37,240
Speaker 2: I definitely think that's the case.

1998
01:26:37,479 --> 01:26:40,840
Speaker 1: I'm not fully sure that's the case. Like, no, I'm

1999
01:26:40,840 --> 01:26:43,360
Speaker 1: basing it too much on the current status, which is

2000
01:26:43,760 --> 01:26:46,880
Speaker 1: pretty terrible. It's great for research, terrible for shopping. And

2001
01:26:46,920 --> 01:26:48,880
Speaker 1: you're saying, well that it is going to improve very rapidly,

2002
01:26:48,920 --> 01:26:51,840
Speaker 1: which is possitively possible. I'm just not sure. That's not

2003
01:26:51,880 --> 01:26:53,160
Speaker 1: how I want to shop. I don't want to have

2004
01:26:53,160 --> 01:26:55,360
Speaker 1: a conversation with AI in terms of shopping. I don't

2005
01:26:55,439 --> 01:26:57,280
Speaker 1: I want to see the different It's like when we

2006
01:26:57,360 --> 01:26:59,680
Speaker 1: go to we talk. We both have both love supermarkets.

2007
01:26:59,720 --> 01:27:01,240
Speaker 1: I love it makes I love to browse and see

2008
01:27:01,240 --> 01:27:02,720
Speaker 1: what there is. I don't want somebody saying, this is

2009
01:27:02,720 --> 01:27:04,439
Speaker 1: the tomatoes sooce you shoul buy. I know, but that's not

2010
01:27:04,479 --> 01:27:06,640
Speaker 1: Google Search, like you're basically saying. I don't think the

2011
01:27:06,640 --> 01:27:08,200
Speaker 1: physical experience will disappear.

2012
01:27:08,320 --> 01:27:10,080
Speaker 2: I think it is. I think it is. I think

2013
01:27:10,080 --> 01:27:12,920
Speaker 2: the physical experience won't disappear. We're in total agreement on that,

2014
01:27:13,040 --> 01:27:15,320
Speaker 2: Like I think there's a human beings are like in

2015
01:27:15,400 --> 01:27:19,479
Speaker 2: person creatures, so that won't disappear. Have you tried to

2016
01:27:19,520 --> 01:27:23,120
Speaker 2: shop for something using chat GPT as an advisor of

2017
01:27:23,160 --> 01:27:25,720
Speaker 2: what you should buy? Should give give it a go

2018
01:27:25,840 --> 01:27:26,959
Speaker 2: and see how you find.

2019
01:27:26,920 --> 01:27:29,720
Speaker 1: Use them for like obviously I've used them, try quite

2020
01:27:29,760 --> 01:27:32,280
Speaker 1: a lot for sort of it's holiday planning, just to

2021
01:27:32,280 --> 01:27:33,320
Speaker 1: compare ours to theirs.

2022
01:27:33,680 --> 01:27:34,360
Speaker 2: It's just terrible.

2023
01:27:34,479 --> 01:27:37,559
Speaker 1: Yeah, but that's that's a very tricky problem for it

2024
01:27:37,640 --> 01:27:41,760
Speaker 1: to solve. I have typed in some shopping searchers and

2025
01:27:41,760 --> 01:27:42,680
Speaker 1: I haven't been impressed.

2026
01:27:42,920 --> 01:27:46,200
Speaker 2: Go and say, I'm thinking about buying a new like

2027
01:27:46,280 --> 01:27:48,280
Speaker 2: pick a product that it can actually talk to you about,

2028
01:27:48,320 --> 01:27:50,720
Speaker 2: like the way I said White Goods is good. I'm

2029
01:27:50,720 --> 01:27:53,920
Speaker 2: thinking about buying a new washing machine. Can you help

2030
01:27:54,000 --> 01:27:56,880
Speaker 2: me make a decision based on what I'm going to

2031
01:27:56,960 --> 01:28:00,720
Speaker 2: need and the right price to feature trade off and

2032
01:28:00,920 --> 01:28:03,040
Speaker 2: just go through that process with it, and then you

2033
01:28:03,040 --> 01:28:06,120
Speaker 2: can report back on how you found it. And I

2034
01:28:06,160 --> 01:28:08,280
Speaker 2: think what you're seeing is the beginning of what a

2035
01:28:08,280 --> 01:28:10,599
Speaker 2: future experience is going to be like. And I think

2036
01:28:10,640 --> 01:28:12,880
Speaker 2: that if you like talking to a salesperson in a store,

2037
01:28:12,880 --> 01:28:14,519
Speaker 2: so obviously you can't touch the product, but you can't

2038
01:28:14,560 --> 01:28:16,400
Speaker 2: touch it on Google either. If you like talking to

2039
01:28:16,439 --> 01:28:18,600
Speaker 2: a salesperson in a store, you're now going to be

2040
01:28:18,600 --> 01:28:21,760
Speaker 2: talking to a salesperson who's arguably much more knowledgeable and

2041
01:28:22,000 --> 01:28:25,120
Speaker 2: probably doesn't have an incentive to sell you a particular product.

2042
01:28:25,120 --> 01:28:26,880
Speaker 2: So I think that is the future of shopping. I've

2043
01:28:26,880 --> 01:28:27,639
Speaker 2: just done a search.

2044
01:28:27,800 --> 01:28:30,280
Speaker 1: I was actually trying to buy some gloves for William,

2045
01:28:30,479 --> 01:28:33,320
Speaker 1: just for stretty thing, and I've done a search. I

2046
01:28:33,360 --> 01:28:35,720
Speaker 1: want to buy gloves my eight year old son, and

2047
01:28:35,760 --> 01:28:38,040
Speaker 1: it's given me goal gig of gloves, wh which is

2048
01:28:38,040 --> 01:28:39,800
Speaker 1: not right. I don't want that. And it's given me

2049
01:28:39,920 --> 01:28:43,800
Speaker 1: receiver glove. It's given me four to five choices, none

2050
01:28:43,840 --> 01:28:46,120
Speaker 1: of which you're right, all right, but that's your fault.

2051
01:28:46,439 --> 01:28:50,000
Speaker 1: I did a Google search earlier this morning was way better. Experience, Like,

2052
01:28:50,080 --> 01:28:51,559
Speaker 1: the Google experience is way better.

2053
01:28:51,680 --> 01:28:56,040
Speaker 2: Maybe the thing is this, these are conversational interfaces. It's

2054
01:28:56,120 --> 01:28:59,440
Speaker 2: like you just walked into a store that sells everything

2055
01:28:59,560 --> 01:29:01,800
Speaker 2: under the son and said, I want to buy a

2056
01:29:01,800 --> 01:29:03,800
Speaker 2: pair of gloves. How the hell can it help you

2057
01:29:03,840 --> 01:29:05,439
Speaker 2: buy a pair of gluck or what gloves does? Do

2058
01:29:05,479 --> 01:29:07,640
Speaker 2: you want? But I think the trick to using this

2059
01:29:07,680 --> 01:29:11,479
Speaker 2: effectively is to engage in conversation and to give it

2060
01:29:11,600 --> 01:29:14,479
Speaker 2: increasingly narrowing parameters about what you're looking for.

2061
01:29:14,600 --> 01:29:16,400
Speaker 1: I gave a bit of information out in just saying

2062
01:29:16,400 --> 01:29:18,439
Speaker 1: one of my gloves, I said to my son his

2063
01:29:18,479 --> 01:29:22,120
Speaker 1: age name the sport, Like it gave a half ast

2064
01:29:22,240 --> 01:29:24,160
Speaker 1: version of Google shopping, because it literally has the Google

2065
01:29:24,160 --> 01:29:26,360
Speaker 1: shopping as you said, it's got the Google shoppings that output,

2066
01:29:26,560 --> 01:29:29,320
Speaker 1: but it just gave like way less options, Like it's

2067
01:29:29,320 --> 01:29:31,240
Speaker 1: just a chip version of Google shopping. At the moment,

2068
01:29:32,240 --> 01:29:33,880
Speaker 1: I'm going to tell you won't get better. It may

2069
01:29:33,920 --> 01:29:35,479
Speaker 1: get much better, but at the moment it's not even

2070
01:29:35,479 --> 01:29:36,559
Speaker 1: close to being as good as good.

2071
01:29:36,800 --> 01:29:39,000
Speaker 2: But if you type a second line that says, rather

2072
01:29:39,080 --> 01:29:43,080
Speaker 2: than just instantly making recommendations, guide me through what I

2073
01:29:43,080 --> 01:29:45,360
Speaker 2: should be looking for in the right choice, that will

2074
01:29:45,360 --> 01:29:47,439
Speaker 2: be a much better experience for you. And I'm certainly

2075
01:29:47,520 --> 01:29:49,680
Speaker 2: not advocating that today, Like that's going to be a

2076
01:29:49,680 --> 01:29:52,240
Speaker 2: better experience than Google shopping for you, Like it may

2077
01:29:52,320 --> 01:29:54,400
Speaker 2: not be. But also you've got to use this, you

2078
01:29:54,439 --> 01:29:57,679
Speaker 2: remember I said on the ask ask Us anything. I said.

2079
01:29:57,680 --> 01:30:00,000
Speaker 2: This is about a tool, not a way to displa

2080
01:30:00,240 --> 01:30:02,320
Speaker 2: human beings. You've got to use the tool in the

2081
01:30:02,400 --> 01:30:04,679
Speaker 2: right way. Like if you're using a hammering you're trying

2082
01:30:04,680 --> 01:30:06,400
Speaker 2: to knock it in with the handle. It's not going

2083
01:30:06,439 --> 01:30:08,280
Speaker 2: to be a great hammer. Use the head of the

2084
01:30:08,280 --> 01:30:10,400
Speaker 2: hammer and you'll get a much better experience.

2085
01:30:10,479 --> 01:30:12,240
Speaker 1: I've just asked for more if I've had to ask

2086
01:30:12,240 --> 01:30:13,880
Speaker 1: the follow up question, and it's given me sort of

2087
01:30:13,880 --> 01:30:17,000
Speaker 1: background information that I don't need, so just irrelevant information,

2088
01:30:17,080 --> 01:30:18,920
Speaker 1: and it's given me a bunch of sort of big

2089
01:30:19,040 --> 01:30:23,479
Speaker 1: retail with rebel Amazon, like completely useless. I'm not saying

2090
01:30:23,600 --> 01:30:25,160
Speaker 1: it won't get better up at the moment, it's nowhere

2091
01:30:25,160 --> 01:30:26,000
Speaker 1: there as good as Google.

2092
01:30:26,400 --> 01:30:29,680
Speaker 2: Well, it may get there. Well, I would say the

2093
01:30:29,720 --> 01:30:31,960
Speaker 2: fact that you are not finding it as good as

2094
01:30:32,000 --> 01:30:34,519
Speaker 2: Google means it's not as good as Google, because even

2095
01:30:34,520 --> 01:30:36,680
Speaker 2: if I think it is used the right way, you

2096
01:30:36,680 --> 01:30:39,360
Speaker 2: shouldn't have to have a sophistication to use it the

2097
01:30:39,439 --> 01:30:42,200
Speaker 2: right way. So if you're not finding it as good now,

2098
01:30:42,240 --> 01:30:44,200
Speaker 2: then I can't argue with that. But I do think

2099
01:30:44,400 --> 01:30:47,839
Speaker 2: the future of shopping will be this kind of AI

2100
01:30:48,080 --> 01:30:51,720
Speaker 2: mediated help, and maybe for gloves and maybe not. But

2101
01:30:51,760 --> 01:30:53,040
Speaker 2: you know, I just want to tell you this, Okay,

2102
01:30:53,040 --> 01:30:54,760
Speaker 2: you don't want to be this guy. I spoke to

2103
01:30:54,840 --> 01:30:58,280
Speaker 2: a guy in two thousand and six and he worked

2104
01:30:58,280 --> 01:31:01,839
Speaker 2: for Census, owned the Yellow Pages and the White Pages,

2105
01:31:01,840 --> 01:31:03,920
Speaker 2: part of Telstra at the time, I think it was

2106
01:31:04,000 --> 01:31:06,960
Speaker 2: early two thousandths probably two thousand and five six, And

2107
01:31:07,000 --> 01:31:09,760
Speaker 2: I said, are you worried about Google coming and take

2108
01:31:09,840 --> 01:31:12,960
Speaker 2: cutting your lunch? And he literally said, our view at Census.

2109
01:31:13,000 --> 01:31:16,120
Speaker 2: He kind of laughed, he's quite a senior guy and said,

2110
01:31:16,120 --> 01:31:18,519
Speaker 2: our view at Sensors is there will be a few

2111
01:31:18,560 --> 01:31:21,800
Speaker 2: categories that Google beats us on, for example, maybe pest

2112
01:31:21,920 --> 01:31:24,479
Speaker 2: control or something like that, but nobody's ever going to

2113
01:31:24,520 --> 01:31:26,599
Speaker 2: want to search for ABC and D. I can't even

2114
01:31:26,640 --> 01:31:29,679
Speaker 2: remember what they were. They were so ridiculous on Google.

2115
01:31:29,720 --> 01:31:31,840
Speaker 2: And I left that lunch and I thought, they're dead.

2116
01:31:32,040 --> 01:31:35,240
Speaker 2: They're dead, like they're definitely dead, and sure enough that

2117
01:31:35,240 --> 01:31:37,120
Speaker 2: that's where they went, right, And so I just.

2118
01:31:37,040 --> 01:31:39,040
Speaker 1: Think I'm not sure he compared Google to Sensus in

2119
01:31:39,120 --> 01:31:42,240
Speaker 1: terms of just the value they have and the power

2120
01:31:42,280 --> 01:31:42,639
Speaker 1: they have.

2121
01:31:43,120 --> 01:31:47,799
Speaker 2: That's the gap I feel is emerging with AI mediated shopping.

2122
01:31:47,800 --> 01:31:50,360
Speaker 2: But the difference is maybe your gloves will never be

2123
01:31:50,560 --> 01:31:53,840
Speaker 2: as much of a different experience, but a washing machine will.

2124
01:31:53,880 --> 01:31:55,800
Speaker 2: That's a hard choice. You don't want to be sold to.

2125
01:31:55,880 --> 01:31:57,759
Speaker 2: You don't even know where to start when you're looking

2126
01:31:57,800 --> 01:32:00,600
Speaker 2: for stuff. I really think that's the size of the

2127
01:32:00,600 --> 01:32:04,080
Speaker 2: difference that's going to appear with more complicated purchasing choices.

2128
01:32:04,120 --> 01:32:06,120
Speaker 1: I'm not sure people can be buying. I think AI

2129
01:32:06,160 --> 01:32:08,400
Speaker 1: can definitely help in choosing your washing machine in terms

2130
01:32:08,400 --> 01:32:10,280
Speaker 1: of this is the type of washing machine you need,

2131
01:32:10,320 --> 01:32:12,120
Speaker 1: and then you go to Jbhalf I'm buy it or

2132
01:32:12,120 --> 01:32:13,760
Speaker 1: good guys and buy it or whatever like that's a

2133
01:32:13,760 --> 01:32:15,400
Speaker 1: different that's a different kind of purchase. And Tyler, I

2134
01:32:15,439 --> 01:32:17,360
Speaker 1: think I'm not saying AI won't have you. I think

2135
01:32:17,400 --> 01:32:20,719
Speaker 1: AI will have incredible uses in many parts of our life.

2136
01:32:20,800 --> 01:32:23,280
Speaker 1: I just my specific point i'm making here is I'm

2137
01:32:23,760 --> 01:32:25,400
Speaker 1: not sure it will have that much of an impact

2138
01:32:25,439 --> 01:32:28,519
Speaker 1: specifically in terms of shopping. I'm talking about specific use,

2139
01:32:28,600 --> 01:32:31,200
Speaker 1: and I mean shopping for anything, not a shopping for garbs.

2140
01:32:31,280 --> 01:32:33,400
Speaker 1: This could be shopping for holida, a shopping for insurance,

2141
01:32:33,400 --> 01:32:35,760
Speaker 1: whatever it's shopping for. I'm just not sure humans want

2142
01:32:35,800 --> 01:32:38,200
Speaker 1: to interact like we talk about Google Census, Google was

2143
01:32:38,240 --> 01:32:40,120
Speaker 1: a much better way to search than because you could

2144
01:32:40,160 --> 01:32:41,879
Speaker 1: type something in and it will give you more information

2145
01:32:41,960 --> 01:32:44,320
Speaker 1: than having to go through some ridiculous thousand page book

2146
01:32:44,320 --> 01:32:45,680
Speaker 1: that got dumb to your doorstep. It was just a

2147
01:32:45,680 --> 01:32:47,559
Speaker 1: better way to do it. I'm just not sure AI

2148
01:32:48,280 --> 01:32:49,960
Speaker 1: as in ll ms are a better way to do it,

2149
01:32:49,960 --> 01:32:51,599
Speaker 1: Which is my point. I'm not saying a I won't

2150
01:32:51,600 --> 01:32:53,400
Speaker 1: have its users. Of course it will, like a gender

2151
01:32:53,479 --> 01:32:55,320
Speaker 1: eye is going to be incredible, and it ready is.

2152
01:32:55,800 --> 01:32:59,400
Speaker 1: I'm saying it's this really specific use can agree to disagree.

2153
01:33:00,280 --> 01:33:01,679
Speaker 2: Is a lot of that on this episode. I think.

2154
01:33:01,840 --> 01:33:03,680
Speaker 1: On that note, we need to put this in the

2155
01:33:03,720 --> 01:33:05,439
Speaker 1: time capsule. Mike can come back in five years time,

2156
01:33:05,520 --> 01:33:09,559
Speaker 1: So who's won these arguments? You can just slash AI shopping.

2157
01:33:09,840 --> 01:33:11,840
Speaker 1: We'll come back to this, I'm sure. I'm sure in

2158
01:33:11,920 --> 01:33:14,799
Speaker 1: five years time, when this is well and truly lost

2159
01:33:14,920 --> 01:33:18,080
Speaker 1: to history, you'll come back and severely manipulate what I

2160
01:33:18,160 --> 01:33:22,320
Speaker 1: said and make me look extreme and terrible. So let's

2161
01:33:22,360 --> 01:33:24,360
Speaker 1: just say I'm no chance of winning this in five

2162
01:33:24,439 --> 01:33:26,479
Speaker 1: years time. If you could have just becomes worth a

2163
01:33:26,520 --> 01:33:29,599
Speaker 1: trillion dollars and is the most valuable a ten trillion,

2164
01:33:29,800 --> 01:33:33,000
Speaker 1: and is the most valuable business in the world. I

2165
01:33:33,240 --> 01:33:36,360
Speaker 1: somehow will still lose this argument in five years time.

2166
01:33:36,600 --> 01:33:37,640
Speaker 2: I'm confident of that.

2167
01:33:42,560 --> 01:33:45,320
Speaker 1: Diar. Did you know one of my favorite businesses, net Wealth,

2168
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2169
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2170
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2171
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2172
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Speaker 2: see why you like them so much.

2173
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2174
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2176
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2177
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2180
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2181
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2182
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2183
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Speaker 2: I love how net Wealth lets you add alternative investments

2184
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Speaker 2: like venture capital, which is great for angel investors.

2185
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Speaker 1: And I've done exactly that. I've combined my fifteen early

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2193
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2194
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Speaker 1: website for important disclaimers. Remember always seek financial advice