1 00:00:04,240 --> 00:00:07,520 S1: When the murky and fast flowing waters surged into their 2 00:00:07,520 --> 00:00:12,120 S1: house in northern Victoria, Brian and Glynis Mulcahy were determined 3 00:00:12,400 --> 00:00:15,360 S1: they would save their home of more than 50 years. 4 00:00:15,840 --> 00:00:18,799 S1: In the end, they couldn't. But what they didn't know then, 5 00:00:18,800 --> 00:00:22,599 S1: during that devastating flood in 2022, was that the worst 6 00:00:22,600 --> 00:00:26,080 S1: was still to come. For Brian Mulcahy was never the 7 00:00:26,079 --> 00:00:29,720 S1: same again. The previously active man slid into a state 8 00:00:29,720 --> 00:00:33,720 S1: of listlessness and was later sent to a mental health facility. 9 00:00:34,800 --> 00:00:37,760 S1: I'm Samantha Selinger Morris, and you're listening to the Morning 10 00:00:37,760 --> 00:00:41,880 S1: Edition from the Age and The Sydney Morning Herald. Today, 11 00:00:41,960 --> 00:00:46,320 S1: regional Editor Benjamin Price on the link between dementia and 12 00:00:46,320 --> 00:00:52,559 S1: natural disasters. It's March the 30th. Welcome, Benjamin, back to 13 00:00:52,560 --> 00:00:53,600 S1: the podcast. 14 00:00:53,720 --> 00:00:55,440 S2: Thank you. It's great to be here again. 15 00:00:55,480 --> 00:00:57,880 S1: Well, I'm very looking forward to speaking to you about this. 16 00:00:57,880 --> 00:01:00,040 S1: To start, can you just tell us a little bit 17 00:01:00,350 --> 00:01:03,990 S1: about Brian and Glenn, whose home was inundated during a 18 00:01:04,030 --> 00:01:08,470 S1: catastrophic flood in Victoria in 2022. Who are they and 19 00:01:08,470 --> 00:01:11,470 S1: how did you meet them? Because it's quite an extraordinary story. 20 00:01:11,990 --> 00:01:13,670 S3: Yeah. So there are. 21 00:01:13,709 --> 00:01:16,869 S2: Really sort of lovely, friendly couple who I happen to 22 00:01:16,870 --> 00:01:20,149 S2: meet in probably one of the most unpleasant moments of 23 00:01:20,190 --> 00:01:29,750 S2: their life. We were covering the floods in Rochester in 2022. 24 00:01:29,790 --> 00:01:33,230 S2: Me and age photographer Justin McManus. We were some of 25 00:01:33,230 --> 00:01:35,510 S2: the only media there at the time who had stayed 26 00:01:35,510 --> 00:01:40,030 S2: to cover it, and we were waiting through probably knee 27 00:01:40,069 --> 00:01:43,990 S2: deep floodwater in the streets when we came across Brian 28 00:01:43,990 --> 00:01:46,990 S2: and a couple of other people, and he was pumping 29 00:01:46,990 --> 00:01:50,670 S2: water out of his front yard, and he'd set up 30 00:01:50,670 --> 00:01:53,870 S2: a kind of like a sandbag defence, and he was 31 00:01:54,150 --> 00:01:56,990 S2: essentially just trying to save his home from being flooded. 32 00:01:57,630 --> 00:02:00,410 S2: And we asked if we could hang around and they said, yeah, 33 00:02:00,410 --> 00:02:05,370 S2: that's fine. Just you can stay and watch. And yeah, we, 34 00:02:05,370 --> 00:02:09,370 S2: we just sort of were the just observers of this 35 00:02:09,650 --> 00:02:16,570 S2: natural disaster unfolding quite slowly in, in real time. 36 00:02:20,210 --> 00:02:22,410 S4: Good morning. We start with an urgent weather alert with 37 00:02:22,410 --> 00:02:25,450 S4: a severe storm warning issued for most of Victoria and 38 00:02:25,450 --> 00:02:28,450 S4: towns now on alert for a 1 in 50 year flood. 39 00:02:28,650 --> 00:02:30,970 S4: Incredibly nervous time. And this is what is happening here 40 00:02:30,970 --> 00:02:34,770 S4: right now. All these teams are here preparing these sandbags. 41 00:02:34,770 --> 00:02:37,530 S4: Everyone in the community is trying to help out. There 42 00:02:37,570 --> 00:02:39,850 S4: are locals here. There are people who've come from Melbourne. 43 00:02:40,250 --> 00:02:43,210 S4: The town of Rochester in the state's north, is one 44 00:02:43,210 --> 00:02:47,010 S4: of those in the firing line. As the Campaspe River rises. 45 00:02:47,690 --> 00:02:50,690 S5: More than a thousand properties in Rochester have been swamped, 46 00:02:50,690 --> 00:02:55,290 S5: with water levels set to exceed the catastrophic floods in 2011. 47 00:02:55,610 --> 00:02:57,530 S5: The town is now cut off from the rest of 48 00:02:57,530 --> 00:03:00,760 S5: the state, with residents told it is too late to leave. 49 00:03:04,919 --> 00:03:07,799 S2: After a while, it became quite clear that they were 50 00:03:07,800 --> 00:03:09,440 S2: not going to be able to pump their way out 51 00:03:09,440 --> 00:03:12,480 S2: of out of this disaster, and the water was probably 52 00:03:12,480 --> 00:03:15,200 S2: going to come inside their house. It had come inside 53 00:03:15,200 --> 00:03:18,359 S2: their house once before in 2011. That was a less 54 00:03:18,360 --> 00:03:21,200 S2: severe flood in 2011. 55 00:03:21,520 --> 00:03:26,720 S6: We had six inches in and in 2022 we had 56 00:03:26,919 --> 00:03:28,079 S6: ten inches in. 57 00:03:28,120 --> 00:03:31,960 S2: Yeah. And yeah, obviously 2022 was when. Yeah, me and 58 00:03:31,960 --> 00:03:33,120 S2: Justin were here. 59 00:03:33,160 --> 00:03:38,800 S6: Yeah, yeah yeah. Helping us. Yeah. That's right. 60 00:03:38,840 --> 00:03:42,680 S2: Yeah. So they knew that their house was vulnerable and 61 00:03:42,840 --> 00:03:45,880 S2: we went inside with them and they were actually they 62 00:03:45,880 --> 00:03:50,400 S2: were just so friendly and generous. And Glennis was smiling 63 00:03:50,400 --> 00:03:52,520 S2: the whole time because she's a very sort of cheery, 64 00:03:52,560 --> 00:03:56,640 S2: smiley person. Even though it was so unpleasant, she kept 65 00:03:56,640 --> 00:03:59,830 S2: apologizing that she couldn't feed us and give us a 66 00:03:59,830 --> 00:04:04,230 S2: cup of tea. And after a while, we just started 67 00:04:04,230 --> 00:04:08,550 S2: helping to lift the furniture, and we lifted some of 68 00:04:08,550 --> 00:04:11,950 S2: the appliances and things like that. Because, you know, like 69 00:04:11,990 --> 00:04:14,630 S2: Justin and I are both quite a bit younger than 70 00:04:15,110 --> 00:04:17,870 S2: than Brian and Glennis. And then, yeah, we just sort 71 00:04:17,870 --> 00:04:21,310 S2: of watched the, the water come inside. And there is 72 00:04:21,310 --> 00:04:24,350 S2: a few things that really stick in my mind. I 73 00:04:24,350 --> 00:04:28,470 S2: remember standing on the balcony of their, um, the veranda 74 00:04:28,470 --> 00:04:32,790 S2: rather of their home and just watching spiders crawling up 75 00:04:32,790 --> 00:04:37,110 S2: the walls. They'd abandoned their homes too. And I remember 76 00:04:37,110 --> 00:04:40,110 S2: just like being in inside the house and I could 77 00:04:40,150 --> 00:04:43,390 S2: hear the, um, I could hear a bubbling. And it 78 00:04:43,390 --> 00:04:45,910 S2: was just like water started coming up through the toilet. 79 00:04:46,070 --> 00:04:48,630 S2: And then the water just started coming in sort of 80 00:04:48,670 --> 00:04:52,589 S2: from everywhere. And it was just sort of this slow, 81 00:04:53,350 --> 00:04:56,310 S2: slow march of the water, but it was clear that 82 00:04:56,310 --> 00:04:59,780 S2: it was just going to keep coming. And after a while, 83 00:04:59,779 --> 00:05:03,300 S2: Justin and I had to leave and continue with our 84 00:05:03,300 --> 00:05:06,500 S2: work and we had to go and file our stories. 85 00:05:06,700 --> 00:05:09,580 S2: So we left them there, but we kept in touch. 86 00:05:10,380 --> 00:05:12,980 S1: I mean, it sounds honestly, it sounds like a horror movie. 87 00:05:12,980 --> 00:05:15,539 S1: And I mean, as you've written, the floodwater, it reached 88 00:05:15,540 --> 00:05:19,659 S1: ten inches above floor level in their house. And Brian 89 00:05:19,660 --> 00:05:23,140 S1: and Glennis, they moved to a caravan about 20 minutes away, right. 90 00:05:23,140 --> 00:05:25,140 S1: While they were waiting for repairs to their home. That 91 00:05:25,140 --> 00:05:28,420 S1: was caused by the damage of this flood. And it 92 00:05:28,420 --> 00:05:31,740 S1: was at that point that Glennis realized that her husband, Brian, 93 00:05:31,740 --> 00:05:34,859 S1: just wasn't coping. So tell us what happened next. 94 00:05:35,339 --> 00:05:40,340 S2: Yeah, well, so I kept checking in with Glennis afterwards 95 00:05:40,339 --> 00:05:43,339 S2: and she would often tell me that yeah, they they've 96 00:05:43,339 --> 00:05:45,300 S2: been having a bit of a hard time and Brian 97 00:05:45,300 --> 00:05:48,060 S2: in particular had been struggling. He lost a fair bit 98 00:05:48,060 --> 00:05:50,860 S2: of motivation and, and things like that. And it seemed 99 00:05:50,860 --> 00:05:53,700 S2: like he wasn't really getting that much enjoyment from the 100 00:05:53,700 --> 00:05:56,840 S2: things that he really used to. um, he used to 101 00:05:56,839 --> 00:06:00,480 S2: love that would play out more afterwards as well. And 102 00:06:00,480 --> 00:06:03,040 S2: then yeah, she just sort of kept me updated and 103 00:06:03,040 --> 00:06:06,039 S2: said that, you know, he'd had to go to hospital 104 00:06:06,040 --> 00:06:08,880 S2: after he um, he had a bit of a collapse. 105 00:06:09,279 --> 00:06:12,760 S6: It's all started. He was down in the caravan and, um, 106 00:06:12,880 --> 00:06:15,880 S6: he couldn't sleep. And one morning he got up and 107 00:06:15,880 --> 00:06:19,800 S6: he collapsed and I rang triple. Oh. And the ambos 108 00:06:19,800 --> 00:06:21,920 S6: come around and they said, well, he hasn't had a 109 00:06:21,960 --> 00:06:24,680 S6: heart attack or a stroke or that. And they took 110 00:06:24,680 --> 00:06:27,400 S6: him up to um Echuca Hospital and. 111 00:06:27,600 --> 00:06:30,320 S2: That he'd spent some time in a mental health facility 112 00:06:30,320 --> 00:06:34,200 S2: and then ultimately later that he had been diagnosed with dementia. 113 00:06:34,279 --> 00:06:39,719 S6: Just deteriorated from there. And they suggested that we have 114 00:06:39,720 --> 00:06:43,240 S6: a scan on his brain. And that's when they found 115 00:06:43,240 --> 00:06:44,520 S6: out he had dementia. 116 00:06:44,960 --> 00:06:45,640 S7: And it was pretty. 117 00:06:45,640 --> 00:06:48,560 S1: Shocking, right? Because he collapses. This is just, I think 118 00:06:48,600 --> 00:06:51,640 S1: a few days after the flood, like you said, he 119 00:06:51,640 --> 00:06:54,400 S1: wasn't himself. And then one day he just gives out. 120 00:06:54,400 --> 00:06:57,950 S1: She rings 000. The paramedics arrive and I think she 121 00:06:57,950 --> 00:07:01,550 S1: was quite surprised when she was eventually told that actually 122 00:07:01,550 --> 00:07:03,630 S1: he hadn't suffered a heart attack or a stroke. Like 123 00:07:03,670 --> 00:07:05,710 S1: that's maybe what she thought originally, right? 124 00:07:06,150 --> 00:07:11,830 S2: Well, that would have been, I guess, an obvious concern 125 00:07:11,830 --> 00:07:16,110 S2: or conclusion to make in the stress of the moment. 126 00:07:16,430 --> 00:07:20,950 S2: I probably would have assumed the same thing. So yeah, 127 00:07:20,950 --> 00:07:23,750 S2: I think for me it would come as a surprise 128 00:07:23,750 --> 00:07:25,950 S2: to get that kind of news that it's just a 129 00:07:25,950 --> 00:07:32,510 S2: collapse rather than some kind of life threatening moment. 130 00:07:33,230 --> 00:07:35,750 S1: And this is, I think, where your story takes perhaps 131 00:07:35,750 --> 00:07:39,390 S1: an even more unexpected or extraordinary turn, because Glenn has 132 00:07:39,390 --> 00:07:42,790 S1: told you that she believes that the flood actually triggered 133 00:07:43,150 --> 00:07:45,710 S1: the brain condition. You know, like you said, he'd been 134 00:07:45,710 --> 00:07:49,750 S1: diagnosed with dementia. And then through your maintaining your connection 135 00:07:49,750 --> 00:07:52,950 S1: with you actually came across a common thread that people 136 00:07:52,950 --> 00:07:54,860 S1: had been suffering as a result of the flood. And 137 00:07:54,860 --> 00:07:57,380 S1: it wasn't just a coincidence, right? Like you found other 138 00:07:57,380 --> 00:08:00,540 S1: people that had been suffering after this flood. 139 00:08:01,140 --> 00:08:05,660 S2: Yeah. That's right. So I went to Brian's funeral a 140 00:08:05,660 --> 00:08:10,900 S2: few weeks ago, and I got to talking to people afterwards, 141 00:08:10,900 --> 00:08:13,060 S2: and it was a bit of a common theme that 142 00:08:13,060 --> 00:08:15,220 S2: emerged that some of the older people in the community 143 00:08:15,260 --> 00:08:19,860 S2: had really struggled afterwards. That flood hit the community broadly, 144 00:08:19,860 --> 00:08:24,220 S2: really quite hard. There were fewer people who were able 145 00:08:24,220 --> 00:08:30,340 S2: to help their neighbours because so many were struggling themselves. Still, 146 00:08:30,340 --> 00:08:33,700 S2: there was a huge effort of support. It was really 147 00:08:33,700 --> 00:08:37,260 S2: quite inspiring, and I think that the way that that 148 00:08:37,260 --> 00:08:41,059 S2: community is handled itself in some ways has been really 149 00:08:41,059 --> 00:08:47,660 S2: quite impressive to me. But this impact on older people 150 00:08:47,660 --> 00:08:50,859 S2: for me was quite striking. It was a common theme. 151 00:08:50,900 --> 00:08:52,780 S2: A lot of people mentioned it to me the more 152 00:08:52,840 --> 00:08:58,120 S2: phone calls I made afterwards, the more people had similar stories. 153 00:08:59,000 --> 00:09:02,679 S2: And I found out as well that the science, the 154 00:09:02,679 --> 00:09:06,160 S2: research does have something to say about this. 155 00:09:11,440 --> 00:09:12,400 S1: After the break. 156 00:09:12,960 --> 00:09:16,160 S2: Communities around Australia are suffering almost at any time of 157 00:09:16,160 --> 00:09:20,200 S2: the year from natural disaster, and the people I've spoken 158 00:09:20,200 --> 00:09:22,560 S2: to are saying, this really needs to be part of 159 00:09:22,559 --> 00:09:24,400 S2: our emergency response. 160 00:09:35,120 --> 00:09:37,760 S1: I mean, this is incredible because specifically the people you'd 161 00:09:37,760 --> 00:09:40,560 S1: spoken to after this flood in this community, multiple people 162 00:09:40,559 --> 00:09:43,200 S1: said that a parent or someone close to them had 163 00:09:43,200 --> 00:09:47,720 S1: suffered significant cognitive decline or been diagnosed with dementia after 164 00:09:47,720 --> 00:09:50,480 S1: the floods. Now, this is definitely a connection that, you know, 165 00:09:50,520 --> 00:09:52,470 S1: totally new to me. I'd never heard about this. But 166 00:09:52,470 --> 00:09:55,670 S1: tell us about the research that you discovered that suggests 167 00:09:55,670 --> 00:09:58,350 S1: that there might be some scientific basis to this connection. 168 00:09:58,750 --> 00:10:01,070 S2: That's right. Yeah. And I think we need to be 169 00:10:01,070 --> 00:10:06,790 S2: careful about how we think about a connection here. The 170 00:10:06,790 --> 00:10:10,670 S2: research that I've read, or one of the studies suggested 171 00:10:10,670 --> 00:10:14,310 S2: that there is an increased risk of dementia after a flood. 172 00:10:14,470 --> 00:10:19,709 S2: Other experts I've spoken to have mentioned things like, it's 173 00:10:19,710 --> 00:10:23,790 S2: possible that there was a pre-existing condition there and a 174 00:10:23,790 --> 00:10:29,670 S2: flood unmasked, that in regional areas, people don't have as 175 00:10:29,670 --> 00:10:37,150 S2: much access to health facilities and health resources. Experts think 176 00:10:37,150 --> 00:10:41,670 S2: that there's a lot of undiagnosed dementia in the community broadly, 177 00:10:42,190 --> 00:10:45,670 S2: so it's possible that the flood has unmasked some of 178 00:10:45,670 --> 00:10:49,030 S2: these things or floods do that in general. Perhaps natural 179 00:10:49,030 --> 00:10:52,420 S2: disasters do that in general, Two. But the other thing 180 00:10:52,420 --> 00:10:55,420 S2: about floods is that there's a whole lot of factors 181 00:10:55,420 --> 00:11:02,660 S2: involved in floods that are particularly unhealthy and can be 182 00:11:02,660 --> 00:11:08,500 S2: really problematic for somebody who is vulnerable to a condition 183 00:11:08,500 --> 00:11:13,900 S2: like dementia, I would imagine perhaps already has symptoms of dementia. 184 00:11:13,940 --> 00:11:17,020 S2: You know, these are things like the stress that continues 185 00:11:17,020 --> 00:11:18,820 S2: for a long period of time. There can be a 186 00:11:18,820 --> 00:11:22,900 S2: long build up with floods beforehand and a long period 187 00:11:22,900 --> 00:11:26,140 S2: of uncertainty when it's actually happening about whether your house 188 00:11:26,140 --> 00:11:28,819 S2: is going to be impacted or not. Once it is, 189 00:11:29,020 --> 00:11:32,780 S2: takes a long time often to get, you know, tradespeople 190 00:11:32,780 --> 00:11:37,020 S2: in assesses deal with insurance companies. These things are stressful 191 00:11:37,020 --> 00:11:39,780 S2: under normal circumstances. But in the flood, you've got this 192 00:11:39,780 --> 00:11:44,660 S2: long tail of stress that's bad. That's that's bad for 193 00:11:44,660 --> 00:11:50,100 S2: our health. There's also a massive disruption to routine. You 194 00:11:50,160 --> 00:11:53,000 S2: don't have the same. You don't have the same house, 195 00:11:53,000 --> 00:11:55,439 S2: so you don't have the same. You know, the same 196 00:11:55,480 --> 00:11:58,280 S2: sort of like routine and the, you know, just the 197 00:11:58,280 --> 00:12:00,679 S2: ability to walk through your house almost with your eyes 198 00:12:00,679 --> 00:12:04,000 S2: closed and know where things are. You know, it's, it's 199 00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:07,000 S2: harder to get access to fresh fruit and vegetables in 200 00:12:07,040 --> 00:12:10,080 S2: a flood. These are all unhealthy things that can contribute 201 00:12:10,080 --> 00:12:11,760 S2: to chronic disease. 202 00:12:11,920 --> 00:12:13,040 S7: You mentioned just before that. 203 00:12:13,040 --> 00:12:16,400 S1: A flood can unmask a preexisting condition. So can you 204 00:12:16,400 --> 00:12:17,960 S1: walk us through that a little bit? How can it 205 00:12:17,960 --> 00:12:18,600 S1: do that? 206 00:12:18,800 --> 00:12:21,960 S2: Well, I think that from some of the experts I've 207 00:12:21,960 --> 00:12:24,040 S2: spoken to, I mean, I was just on the phone 208 00:12:24,040 --> 00:12:28,560 S2: earlier to a geriatrician called Kate Grigorovitch, and she was 209 00:12:28,559 --> 00:12:31,280 S2: saying that you've got to be careful about whether we 210 00:12:31,280 --> 00:12:36,480 S2: treat one thing as causing the other. But if somebody 211 00:12:36,480 --> 00:12:40,559 S2: is already dealing with dementia or in the early stages 212 00:12:40,559 --> 00:12:43,960 S2: of dementia, if somebody is already in the early stages 213 00:12:43,960 --> 00:12:49,160 S2: of dementia, then the fallout from a flood, the social dislocation, 214 00:12:49,160 --> 00:12:53,470 S2: the disruptions to routine, all of those things that can 215 00:12:53,470 --> 00:12:57,110 S2: perhaps shine a light on symptoms that were not that 216 00:12:57,150 --> 00:13:00,830 S2: obvious beforehand. The other thing is that she was saying that, 217 00:13:00,870 --> 00:13:04,069 S2: you know, when somebody in the early stages of dementia 218 00:13:04,070 --> 00:13:09,990 S2: or undiagnosed dementia experiences a life changing event, like, say, 219 00:13:10,030 --> 00:13:14,189 S2: a man with early stage dementia who experiences the loss 220 00:13:14,190 --> 00:13:19,070 S2: of a partner, there might have been things beforehand that 221 00:13:19,070 --> 00:13:24,150 S2: masked those dementia symptoms. For example, if the wife was 222 00:13:24,150 --> 00:13:26,510 S2: the one that did all of the, you know, the 223 00:13:26,550 --> 00:13:30,670 S2: social organizing, and then all of a sudden she's not 224 00:13:30,670 --> 00:13:36,309 S2: there to do that, then that can unmask a situation 225 00:13:36,309 --> 00:13:39,590 S2: where this person is really lonely and it's bad for 226 00:13:39,590 --> 00:13:40,230 S2: their health. 227 00:13:40,830 --> 00:13:44,470 S1: Right? Okay. And so you mentioned a 2025 study just 228 00:13:44,470 --> 00:13:48,740 S1: earlier led by researchers from Monash University and China that drew, 229 00:13:48,740 --> 00:13:52,580 S1: like you said, this link between flooding and increased dimension risk. 230 00:13:52,580 --> 00:13:56,260 S1: So not necessarily a straight causational link, but a link. 231 00:13:56,620 --> 00:13:58,980 S1: But this study just wasn't conducted in Australia, right? There 232 00:13:58,980 --> 00:14:01,980 S1: was actually evidence from disasters around the world as well 233 00:14:01,980 --> 00:14:03,380 S1: that sort of makes this link. 234 00:14:03,700 --> 00:14:07,300 S2: So this study analyzed a large amount of data from 235 00:14:07,300 --> 00:14:11,140 S2: the UK. And I guess in the UK they don't 236 00:14:11,140 --> 00:14:14,780 S2: have the same bushfire problem as as we do here. 237 00:14:14,780 --> 00:14:18,699 S2: So I guess that's why they, um, they focused on flood. 238 00:14:18,700 --> 00:14:22,180 S2: But the study, as research often does is it cites 239 00:14:22,220 --> 00:14:25,820 S2: other research as well. And so they cited some studies, 240 00:14:25,860 --> 00:14:30,340 S2: particularly in Japan, that showed that dementia medication rose after 241 00:14:30,340 --> 00:14:34,300 S2: a flood. And I think that it's worth us looking 242 00:14:34,300 --> 00:14:37,900 S2: into more and that the researchers should spend more time 243 00:14:37,900 --> 00:14:41,420 S2: looking into it. And the experts I've spoken to are 244 00:14:41,420 --> 00:14:45,900 S2: also saying that authorities in Australia need to be more 245 00:14:46,020 --> 00:14:51,170 S2: aware of how people are struggling after a natural disaster, 246 00:14:51,170 --> 00:14:57,490 S2: after a flood, and that people experienced in identifying symptoms 247 00:14:57,490 --> 00:15:01,290 S2: of conditions like dementia should be out there on the 248 00:15:01,290 --> 00:15:04,970 S2: ground during and after natural disasters. 249 00:15:05,010 --> 00:15:08,970 S1: And one expert that you spoke to mentioned that she 250 00:15:08,970 --> 00:15:13,610 S1: believes that dementia actually remains undiagnosed among many people, as 251 00:15:13,610 --> 00:15:16,810 S1: its symptoms are often mistaken as a normal part of aging. 252 00:15:16,850 --> 00:15:19,090 S1: So does that mean that for a lot of people, 253 00:15:19,490 --> 00:15:22,370 S1: perhaps even in Rochester, where you met Brian, that they 254 00:15:22,370 --> 00:15:25,170 S1: could be suffering from a decline and just not realize 255 00:15:25,170 --> 00:15:26,210 S1: it like he did? 256 00:15:26,450 --> 00:15:31,290 S2: Well, I guess it is possible that more people are 257 00:15:31,650 --> 00:15:35,650 S2: suffering from the early stages of dementia and and not 258 00:15:35,650 --> 00:15:39,650 S2: know about it, especially, like we were saying earlier, especially 259 00:15:39,650 --> 00:15:45,850 S2: in regional areas where people don't have as much access to, 260 00:15:46,050 --> 00:15:49,510 S2: to health services. I think that it probably stands to 261 00:15:49,550 --> 00:15:54,430 S2: reason that if they can't get access to diagnoses as easily, 262 00:15:54,430 --> 00:15:58,470 S2: then there's a good chance that people are suffering in 263 00:15:58,470 --> 00:16:02,110 S2: a way that's not really recognized. But this does seem 264 00:16:02,110 --> 00:16:05,750 S2: to be a problem more broadly. So the top ten 265 00:16:05,750 --> 00:16:10,470 S2: places for dementia diagnoses that I found in a story 266 00:16:10,470 --> 00:16:13,070 S2: that my colleagues, Henrietta Cooke and Ayesha Dow, did a 267 00:16:13,070 --> 00:16:16,510 S2: couple of years ago, the top ten places for dementia 268 00:16:16,510 --> 00:16:20,070 S2: were not in regional Victoria. They were in Melbourne, but 269 00:16:20,070 --> 00:16:22,710 S2: I don't know exactly how to account for that. There 270 00:16:22,710 --> 00:16:25,110 S2: could be a whole lot of reasons for that greater 271 00:16:25,110 --> 00:16:27,710 S2: population density or whatever the case may be. 272 00:16:27,950 --> 00:16:28,950 S7: And so what more do. 273 00:16:28,990 --> 00:16:32,870 S1: Researchers hope change in this space about how vulnerable people 274 00:16:32,870 --> 00:16:35,990 S1: in our communities do need support when either preparing for 275 00:16:35,990 --> 00:16:39,830 S1: disaster or, as in the case of Brian and Glennis, 276 00:16:39,830 --> 00:16:41,470 S1: after they've experienced one? 277 00:16:41,750 --> 00:16:44,750 S2: Well, I think just a greater awareness is the first 278 00:16:44,750 --> 00:16:47,820 S2: thing that. this is something that needs to be part 279 00:16:47,820 --> 00:16:52,700 S2: of the emergency response. Given that we're such a natural 280 00:16:52,700 --> 00:16:57,780 S2: disaster prone country that, you know, communities around Australia are 281 00:16:57,780 --> 00:17:01,540 S2: suffering almost at any time of the year from natural disaster. 282 00:17:01,540 --> 00:17:04,620 S2: And the people I've spoken to are saying, this really 283 00:17:04,619 --> 00:17:08,460 S2: needs to be part of our emergency response. We need 284 00:17:08,460 --> 00:17:12,260 S2: to have people who are trained in recognizing the symptoms 285 00:17:12,260 --> 00:17:15,060 S2: and the ways in which people might be struggling, and 286 00:17:15,300 --> 00:17:17,580 S2: how do we I don't know about preventing it, but 287 00:17:17,580 --> 00:17:19,700 S2: how do we make their lives better for them? How 288 00:17:19,700 --> 00:17:21,580 S2: do we help them get back on their feet? How 289 00:17:21,580 --> 00:17:24,820 S2: do we get people living a more healthy lifestyle and 290 00:17:25,060 --> 00:17:28,100 S2: enjoying their golden years? Because that was one thing that 291 00:17:28,100 --> 00:17:31,540 S2: people spoke to me about repeatedly in Rochester was that 292 00:17:31,540 --> 00:17:33,700 S2: they feel like there's a group of people who have 293 00:17:33,700 --> 00:17:38,100 S2: been denied their golden years, denied the chance to enjoy 294 00:17:38,100 --> 00:17:45,530 S2: those moments in retirement and really be full functioning, you know, 295 00:17:45,570 --> 00:17:48,210 S2: important parts of the community as they are. Like they 296 00:17:48,210 --> 00:17:50,810 S2: spoke a lot about the importance of their of their 297 00:17:50,810 --> 00:17:53,449 S2: elders and the knowledge that they embody and all of 298 00:17:53,450 --> 00:17:58,490 S2: those things. And I think that it's really hard on 299 00:17:58,490 --> 00:18:02,850 S2: a town like Rochester, which already skews older, to have 300 00:18:02,850 --> 00:18:06,609 S2: so many people struggling after a flood. We need to 301 00:18:06,609 --> 00:18:09,730 S2: be thinking about this stuff into the future, because climate 302 00:18:09,730 --> 00:18:11,810 S2: change is only going to make it more challenging. 303 00:18:12,170 --> 00:18:14,010 S1: And so, Benjamin, just to wrap up, you know, for 304 00:18:14,010 --> 00:18:16,210 S1: people who are listening, who might be thinking about their 305 00:18:16,210 --> 00:18:19,729 S1: parents or their grandparents, and particularly after, you know, we've 306 00:18:19,730 --> 00:18:23,970 S1: had bushfires and lived through the pandemic and other natural disasters, 307 00:18:23,970 --> 00:18:26,450 S1: what are some of the signs that they should perhaps 308 00:18:26,450 --> 00:18:29,369 S1: look out for that they might think are signs of aging, 309 00:18:29,369 --> 00:18:33,609 S1: but they could actually be signs of early undiagnosed dementia 310 00:18:33,609 --> 00:18:34,770 S1: or other conditions? 311 00:18:35,170 --> 00:18:39,129 S2: One thing that Doctor Kate Grigorovitch mentioned to me was 312 00:18:39,130 --> 00:18:43,210 S2: that apathy is one of those things that people don't 313 00:18:43,390 --> 00:18:47,630 S2: realize may be a symptom of dementia. So she said 314 00:18:47,630 --> 00:18:51,909 S2: to me, it's probably the most common first symptom. So 315 00:18:51,950 --> 00:18:56,030 S2: I guess if you realize that a loved one is 316 00:18:56,030 --> 00:18:59,350 S2: not excited or interested in the things that used to 317 00:18:59,390 --> 00:19:03,629 S2: interest them, then maybe it's worth starting to dig a 318 00:19:03,630 --> 00:19:05,070 S2: little bit deeper into that. 319 00:19:07,550 --> 00:19:10,389 S1: That is such good insight. Thank you so much, Benjamin, 320 00:19:10,390 --> 00:19:11,230 S1: for your time. 321 00:19:11,550 --> 00:19:13,790 S2: Thank you so much. It's great to be with you again. 322 00:19:20,910 --> 00:19:25,270 S1: Today's episode was produced by Josh towers. Our executive producer 323 00:19:25,270 --> 00:19:28,869 S1: is Tammy Mills, and our podcasts are overseen by Lisa 324 00:19:28,869 --> 00:19:32,790 S1: Muxworthy and Tom McKendrick. If you like our show, follow 325 00:19:32,790 --> 00:19:35,149 S1: the Morning Edition and leave a review for us on 326 00:19:35,150 --> 00:19:37,990 S1: Apple or Spotify. Thanks for listening.