1 00:00:02,240 --> 00:00:03,520 Speaker 1: Nine podcasts. 2 00:00:04,080 --> 00:00:07,440 Speaker 2: Aaron Patterson has given evidence around how she made the 3 00:00:07,480 --> 00:00:10,800 Speaker 2: beef Wellington meal, telling The Cord that she used a 4 00:00:10,960 --> 00:00:13,720 Speaker 2: mushroom mix as part of a paste, and that she 5 00:00:13,760 --> 00:00:18,240 Speaker 2: became concerned that mix could have contained foraged wild mushrooms 6 00:00:18,280 --> 00:00:21,680 Speaker 2: around the time that her estranged husband approached her in 7 00:00:21,840 --> 00:00:25,920 Speaker 2: hospital and she says accused her of using a dehydrator 8 00:00:26,000 --> 00:00:30,200 Speaker 2: to poison his parents. From there, she says she panicked. 9 00:00:31,000 --> 00:00:32,720 Speaker 3: Victoria's mushroom mystery. 10 00:00:32,880 --> 00:00:35,519 Speaker 4: The mushroom lunch that claimed three lives. 11 00:00:35,280 --> 00:00:38,320 Speaker 5: An Australian family's meal is now the center of a 12 00:00:38,320 --> 00:00:42,800 Speaker 5: homicide investigation. The bizarre tragedy now grabbing global headlines. Aaron 13 00:00:42,880 --> 00:00:46,560 Speaker 5: Patterson's alleged victims died after eating a family lunch she'd 14 00:00:46,600 --> 00:00:47,880 Speaker 5: serve them at her home. 15 00:00:48,040 --> 00:00:51,680 Speaker 4: I cannot think of another investigation that has generated this 16 00:00:51,840 --> 00:00:54,520 Speaker 4: level of media and public interest. 17 00:00:54,720 --> 00:00:57,080 Speaker 2: Four of the guests of that lunch were much loved 18 00:00:57,120 --> 00:00:58,360 Speaker 2: members of this church. 19 00:00:58,760 --> 00:00:59,920 Speaker 1: Only one will ever. 20 00:01:00,520 --> 00:01:05,760 Speaker 5: People are feeling very heavy with having lost such wonderful people. 21 00:01:05,880 --> 00:01:09,360 Speaker 2: Today, Aaron Pattison remained here inside her home. 22 00:01:09,680 --> 00:01:14,800 Speaker 1: She's continued to plead her innocence in a court room in. 23 00:01:14,800 --> 00:01:18,840 Speaker 2: Country Victoria Aaron Patterson is on trial accused of using 24 00:01:18,880 --> 00:01:21,959 Speaker 2: death cat mushrooms to kill She's pleaded not guilty to 25 00:01:22,040 --> 00:01:24,679 Speaker 2: murdering three of her former in laws and attempting to 26 00:01:24,760 --> 00:01:28,160 Speaker 2: kill a fourth, the town's church pastor. It's up to 27 00:01:28,160 --> 00:01:31,400 Speaker 2: the jurors to decide what happened when Patterson's loved ones 28 00:01:31,560 --> 00:01:34,959 Speaker 2: sat down to eat. On her third day of evidence, 29 00:01:35,080 --> 00:01:38,080 Speaker 2: Aaron Patterson has told the court details of how she 30 00:01:38,160 --> 00:01:41,800 Speaker 2: says she made the beef Wellington meal. She's also told 31 00:01:41,840 --> 00:01:44,720 Speaker 2: the court that she now believes that there could have 32 00:01:44,760 --> 00:01:48,680 Speaker 2: been foraged wild mushrooms in the mushroom mix that she 33 00:01:48,880 --> 00:01:50,000 Speaker 2: put into that dish. 34 00:01:50,560 --> 00:01:55,000 Speaker 5: There's a lot to unpack from today, Penny. We are 35 00:01:55,040 --> 00:01:58,480 Speaker 5: recording this podcast episode later than we normally would because 36 00:01:58,480 --> 00:02:01,200 Speaker 5: there's been a lot to try process and a lot 37 00:02:01,240 --> 00:02:04,000 Speaker 5: to break down and understand, double check quotes, all of 38 00:02:04,040 --> 00:02:05,920 Speaker 5: these types of information to make sure what we are 39 00:02:05,920 --> 00:02:09,880 Speaker 5: bringing our listeners is a real and true reflection of 40 00:02:09,919 --> 00:02:12,880 Speaker 5: what happened in court today. When I was sitting trying 41 00:02:12,880 --> 00:02:15,560 Speaker 5: to write my story for the Age before we've sat 42 00:02:15,600 --> 00:02:19,440 Speaker 5: down to do this, it was quite difficult to figure 43 00:02:19,440 --> 00:02:21,440 Speaker 5: out how much I could get into the first few 44 00:02:21,520 --> 00:02:24,400 Speaker 5: pars there was line after line after line of information 45 00:02:24,600 --> 00:02:28,040 Speaker 5: and the reason for that is this is Aaron Patterson's third 46 00:02:28,120 --> 00:02:30,839 Speaker 5: day on the stand and she was answering questions from 47 00:02:30,880 --> 00:02:34,400 Speaker 5: her barrister, Colin Mandy. Again, Aaron, I agree definitely with 48 00:02:34,440 --> 00:02:36,440 Speaker 5: the you know, the crosses that I've done throughout the 49 00:02:36,480 --> 00:02:39,800 Speaker 5: day for radio and TV as well. It's definitely there's 50 00:02:39,840 --> 00:02:41,440 Speaker 5: been so many topics. 51 00:02:40,960 --> 00:02:44,280 Speaker 2: Covered, particularly on this particular day, and the fact that 52 00:02:44,320 --> 00:02:46,520 Speaker 2: we have the podcast where we can try and bring 53 00:02:46,560 --> 00:02:48,400 Speaker 2: people large chunks. 54 00:02:48,040 --> 00:02:48,720 Speaker 1: Of the evidence. 55 00:02:48,960 --> 00:02:51,840 Speaker 2: We're really hoping, as we've said, that this gives people 56 00:02:51,840 --> 00:02:54,440 Speaker 2: a real insight into what was going on in the courtroom. 57 00:02:54,639 --> 00:02:57,200 Speaker 5: Yeah, I'm looking at a notepad in my left hand 58 00:02:57,240 --> 00:02:58,760 Speaker 5: at the moment with a little bit of scribble on 59 00:02:58,800 --> 00:03:02,080 Speaker 5: it to remind me of different points to not forget 60 00:03:02,120 --> 00:03:04,440 Speaker 5: and the order in which they were presented to the 61 00:03:04,520 --> 00:03:06,840 Speaker 5: jury today and some of those. And we'll take you 62 00:03:06,880 --> 00:03:08,880 Speaker 5: through all of the evidence that we heard today, but 63 00:03:09,240 --> 00:03:11,960 Speaker 5: a quick recap, I suppose on where we got to 64 00:03:12,080 --> 00:03:14,680 Speaker 5: by four o'clock this afternoon. We heard a little bit 65 00:03:14,720 --> 00:03:17,720 Speaker 5: about a conversation between Aaron Patterson and Simon Patterson when 66 00:03:17,760 --> 00:03:21,320 Speaker 5: they were left alone in a hospital room at Monash Hospital. Here, 67 00:03:21,440 --> 00:03:24,840 Speaker 5: Simon Patterson asked questions of his estranged wife as to 68 00:03:24,840 --> 00:03:27,720 Speaker 5: whether or not she'd use a dehydrator to poison his parents. 69 00:03:28,800 --> 00:03:31,720 Speaker 5: We also heard a little bit about Aaron Patterson dumping 70 00:03:31,760 --> 00:03:36,240 Speaker 5: some evidence, including a dehydrator during the aftermath of the lunch. 71 00:03:36,320 --> 00:03:39,760 Speaker 5: We heard a little bit about Aaron Patterson admitting it 72 00:03:39,880 --> 00:03:42,400 Speaker 5: she did wipe a mobile phone a number of times. 73 00:03:42,880 --> 00:03:45,720 Speaker 5: She also said that she told some lies Penny to 74 00:03:45,760 --> 00:03:49,920 Speaker 5: keep her children. There was also different things about her 75 00:03:49,960 --> 00:03:53,600 Speaker 5: her diary and in her words, her illness continued to 76 00:03:53,600 --> 00:03:56,560 Speaker 5: get worse and worse. But she also took us more 77 00:03:56,600 --> 00:03:59,960 Speaker 5: importantly and the reason why we're all in court Penny 78 00:04:00,080 --> 00:04:03,320 Speaker 5: through the lunch, what happened at the lunch, through in 79 00:04:03,360 --> 00:04:06,440 Speaker 5: her mind what she recalled of that. And there was many, many, 80 00:04:06,520 --> 00:04:09,200 Speaker 5: many questions that she answered to the jury today about 81 00:04:09,200 --> 00:04:09,680 Speaker 5: that lunch. 82 00:04:09,840 --> 00:04:12,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, and those included elements of the shopping, the preparation, 83 00:04:13,120 --> 00:04:16,520 Speaker 2: the recipe, the serving up, the plating up, why she 84 00:04:16,680 --> 00:04:19,720 Speaker 2: says she held this lunch. And we'll take everyone through 85 00:04:19,800 --> 00:04:23,600 Speaker 2: as much as we can fit into one recording. But 86 00:04:24,279 --> 00:04:27,200 Speaker 2: let's sort of start from some of the first parts 87 00:04:27,200 --> 00:04:29,919 Speaker 2: of the evidence that the jury heard today, and that 88 00:04:30,080 --> 00:04:34,039 Speaker 2: was when Aaron Patterson's barrister took Aaron Patterson through a 89 00:04:34,120 --> 00:04:37,560 Speaker 2: number of photographs on the big screens and the court 90 00:04:37,640 --> 00:04:40,000 Speaker 2: was told that these came from an SD card, so 91 00:04:40,080 --> 00:04:43,280 Speaker 2: a memory card that had been recovered from the Gibson 92 00:04:43,360 --> 00:04:46,920 Speaker 2: Street Lee and Gatha home during a police search. Now, 93 00:04:48,120 --> 00:04:50,760 Speaker 2: Aaron Patterson was sort of going through these different photos 94 00:04:50,760 --> 00:04:52,920 Speaker 2: with her barrister and what we saw in those photos 95 00:04:53,320 --> 00:04:55,560 Speaker 2: was quite a few different mushrooms. 96 00:04:55,680 --> 00:04:57,880 Speaker 5: Yeah, I think there was twenty odd pages that Aaron 97 00:04:57,920 --> 00:05:01,360 Speaker 5: Patterson was taken through and asked did you take these photographs? 98 00:05:01,360 --> 00:05:04,000 Speaker 5: Do you have any memory of taking these photographs? What 99 00:05:04,200 --> 00:05:06,880 Speaker 5: is depicted in these photographs? And some of her answers 100 00:05:07,040 --> 00:05:10,120 Speaker 5: were that there was mushrooms in those photographs that were 101 00:05:10,160 --> 00:05:12,400 Speaker 5: taken in the wild. There was other mushrooms that had 102 00:05:12,400 --> 00:05:15,200 Speaker 5: been picked and that were placed on newspaper and Aaron 103 00:05:15,240 --> 00:05:18,080 Speaker 5: Patterson identified that particular picture as being one that was 104 00:05:18,120 --> 00:05:20,679 Speaker 5: on her kitchen bench at the time at a previous 105 00:05:20,680 --> 00:05:23,800 Speaker 5: addressing in corn Bara in Shelcotte Road. But she was 106 00:05:23,839 --> 00:05:27,320 Speaker 5: also then asked to identify some other people that may 107 00:05:27,360 --> 00:05:29,280 Speaker 5: have been in that photograph and that's when she got 108 00:05:29,279 --> 00:05:31,719 Speaker 5: a little bit emotional. Penny for the first time on 109 00:05:31,839 --> 00:05:34,120 Speaker 5: day twenty six of the trial, and that was when 110 00:05:34,120 --> 00:05:36,359 Speaker 5: she was asked to identify, yeah, people in the background, 111 00:05:36,440 --> 00:05:37,679 Speaker 5: and she said they were her children. 112 00:05:37,960 --> 00:05:40,400 Speaker 2: Yeah. And part of what was shown to the court 113 00:05:40,560 --> 00:05:43,400 Speaker 2: was some very small images which it was asked for 114 00:05:43,440 --> 00:05:45,440 Speaker 2: them to be zoomed up, and it was explained by 115 00:05:45,520 --> 00:05:48,760 Speaker 2: the barrister. He says that these were snapshots basically taken 116 00:05:48,800 --> 00:05:51,400 Speaker 2: from a video, and Aaron Patterson. 117 00:05:51,000 --> 00:05:53,000 Speaker 1: Told the court that she believed that. 118 00:05:52,880 --> 00:05:55,680 Speaker 2: She had taken that video that her children had been 119 00:05:55,800 --> 00:05:57,800 Speaker 2: riding their scooters on a rail trail. 120 00:05:57,839 --> 00:05:59,599 Speaker 1: They're excited to do that, yeah, and she. 121 00:05:59,680 --> 00:06:03,039 Speaker 2: Sort of she said, look, you can see that they're 122 00:06:03,120 --> 00:06:05,040 Speaker 2: both in that image, and that's when she got a 123 00:06:05,040 --> 00:06:06,840 Speaker 2: little bit emotional talking about those children. 124 00:06:06,839 --> 00:06:09,840 Speaker 1: But she also noted to the jury that there was a. 125 00:06:09,839 --> 00:06:13,119 Speaker 2: Child in that image wearing a red sort of top 126 00:06:13,480 --> 00:06:15,599 Speaker 2: and that that was the same child. She said, you 127 00:06:15,600 --> 00:06:17,960 Speaker 2: could then see in this other image that she said 128 00:06:18,040 --> 00:06:20,640 Speaker 2: was taken at her kitchen bench. But through a lot 129 00:06:20,640 --> 00:06:24,799 Speaker 2: of these photos, she seemed to be able to recall 130 00:06:24,960 --> 00:06:28,080 Speaker 2: some parts of exactly when she'd taken them and why 131 00:06:28,160 --> 00:06:31,320 Speaker 2: She says that was she noted some particular mushrooms, that 132 00:06:31,360 --> 00:06:34,359 Speaker 2: they were sort of a brownie yellowy color to me, 133 00:06:34,480 --> 00:06:38,040 Speaker 2: at least in grass, that she had picked those from 134 00:06:38,040 --> 00:06:40,800 Speaker 2: the grass, and that she had been trying to identify those, 135 00:06:40,839 --> 00:06:42,960 Speaker 2: she said, to find out if they were toxic. 136 00:06:42,839 --> 00:06:43,520 Speaker 1: For her dog. 137 00:06:43,720 --> 00:06:45,960 Speaker 2: She told the jury that she said that was an 138 00:06:46,040 --> 00:06:48,400 Speaker 2: inner cybe mushroom and she'd come to know that that 139 00:06:48,680 --> 00:06:52,039 Speaker 2: was a poisonous mushroom that she believed grew on her property. 140 00:06:52,240 --> 00:06:56,159 Speaker 5: She was also taken to other screenshots that the prosecution 141 00:06:56,240 --> 00:06:58,680 Speaker 5: had introduced as part of their evidence, and they related 142 00:06:58,720 --> 00:07:01,280 Speaker 5: to a purchase at the corn Bar Top Pub. This 143 00:07:01,400 --> 00:07:03,480 Speaker 5: was something that was happening around the same time as 144 00:07:03,520 --> 00:07:07,640 Speaker 5: there was also a visit to a website II Naturalist, 145 00:07:08,000 --> 00:07:10,200 Speaker 5: and Aaron Patterson said, yes, that could have been her 146 00:07:10,280 --> 00:07:13,080 Speaker 5: that accessed the our Naturalist page. It made sense because 147 00:07:13,360 --> 00:07:15,680 Speaker 5: at the time she was researching whether or not there 148 00:07:15,720 --> 00:07:18,840 Speaker 5: was death cat mushrooms growing in South Gippsland. She said 149 00:07:18,920 --> 00:07:22,040 Speaker 5: ultimately they weren't and she was then asked further questions 150 00:07:22,040 --> 00:07:25,560 Speaker 5: about what else was going on at that time. She confirmed, 151 00:07:25,600 --> 00:07:28,120 Speaker 5: as I said, this purchase at the Coronborough Middle pub, 152 00:07:28,320 --> 00:07:30,960 Speaker 5: she said, yes, I remember doing that, I remember making 153 00:07:31,000 --> 00:07:31,680 Speaker 5: that purchase. 154 00:07:31,760 --> 00:07:34,560 Speaker 2: And she said that she did sometimes purchase dinner on 155 00:07:34,640 --> 00:07:38,600 Speaker 2: occasion for her and her family there. When she was 156 00:07:38,640 --> 00:07:41,920 Speaker 2: talking also about those sort of the use of her phone, 157 00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:44,480 Speaker 2: she was sort of asked about when she was trying 158 00:07:44,520 --> 00:07:46,520 Speaker 2: to identify mushrooms how she would do that. She said 159 00:07:46,520 --> 00:07:48,520 Speaker 2: mostly she would use her phone because that was the 160 00:07:48,520 --> 00:07:51,600 Speaker 2: device usually that was easiest when she had it with her. 161 00:07:51,920 --> 00:07:54,080 Speaker 5: When she was asked as well about some of the 162 00:07:54,080 --> 00:07:57,640 Speaker 5: our naturalist posts that we've heard during this evidence thus far, 163 00:07:58,240 --> 00:08:01,000 Speaker 5: she was asked whether or not she'd ever seen posts 164 00:08:01,000 --> 00:08:04,840 Speaker 5: that pinpointed that where deathcat mushrooms were believed to have 165 00:08:04,840 --> 00:08:07,720 Speaker 5: grown from other witnesses, Tom May and another woman called 166 00:08:07,800 --> 00:08:10,440 Speaker 5: Christine Mackenzie, and she said no, she had not, she 167 00:08:10,520 --> 00:08:13,200 Speaker 5: did not ever recall seeing those posts. And well, when 168 00:08:13,200 --> 00:08:15,200 Speaker 5: she was asked of her phone records and her travel 169 00:08:15,280 --> 00:08:17,960 Speaker 5: was consistent with traveling to lock An Outram area and 170 00:08:18,000 --> 00:08:20,560 Speaker 5: if she'd ever forage in those areas, she said. 171 00:08:20,400 --> 00:08:23,120 Speaker 2: No, Yeah, she said she'd never foraged in either of 172 00:08:23,160 --> 00:08:25,200 Speaker 2: those two particular locations. 173 00:08:25,280 --> 00:08:27,800 Speaker 5: Yeah, we heard in June twenty twenty three, I think 174 00:08:27,800 --> 00:08:30,920 Speaker 5: it was the twenty fourth of June, Penny that Aaron 175 00:08:30,960 --> 00:08:33,960 Speaker 5: Patterson had a lunch with Don and Gale and her children. 176 00:08:34,080 --> 00:08:36,120 Speaker 5: She said she'd become a little worried that there might 177 00:08:36,120 --> 00:08:38,679 Speaker 5: have been some distance growing between her and her in 178 00:08:38,760 --> 00:08:41,280 Speaker 5: laws at the time. The way she remembered it when 179 00:08:41,320 --> 00:08:43,320 Speaker 5: she was expressing this to the jury was that it 180 00:08:43,360 --> 00:08:45,640 Speaker 5: was a really, really good time and her children really 181 00:08:45,679 --> 00:08:47,800 Speaker 5: really enjoyed it, and she said that's one of the 182 00:08:47,800 --> 00:08:50,240 Speaker 5: reasons why she planned the lunch again a month later 183 00:08:50,280 --> 00:08:52,320 Speaker 5: on the twenty ninth of July. It was at this 184 00:08:52,360 --> 00:08:54,600 Speaker 5: time as well, Penny, that she was taken back to 185 00:08:54,760 --> 00:08:57,400 Speaker 5: an exhibit called Exhibit fifty one, and this was a 186 00:08:57,400 --> 00:08:59,679 Speaker 5: string of text messages or messages that had been sent 187 00:08:59,679 --> 00:09:02,440 Speaker 5: between her and Gail Patterson, and this was a discussion 188 00:09:02,440 --> 00:09:03,800 Speaker 5: about her medical appointments. 189 00:09:04,160 --> 00:09:06,520 Speaker 2: Here's a little bit of what Aaron Patterson told the 190 00:09:06,600 --> 00:09:09,920 Speaker 2: jury while she was being questioned by her barrister, Colin Mandy. 191 00:09:10,200 --> 00:09:11,360 Speaker 2: It's voiced by actors. 192 00:09:11,720 --> 00:09:15,160 Speaker 3: The message is from Gail to you, Is that right? 193 00:09:15,559 --> 00:09:15,839 Speaker 4: Yes? 194 00:09:16,400 --> 00:09:20,120 Speaker 3: And it says hi, erin just wondering how you got 195 00:09:20,120 --> 00:09:21,319 Speaker 3: on in your appointment today. 196 00:09:21,800 --> 00:09:22,120 Speaker 4: Yep. 197 00:09:22,960 --> 00:09:24,320 Speaker 3: What was Gail referring to. 198 00:09:25,080 --> 00:09:27,400 Speaker 4: I must have told him I was having a medical 199 00:09:27,400 --> 00:09:28,360 Speaker 4: appointment that day. 200 00:09:28,640 --> 00:09:30,120 Speaker 3: And do you remember when you told them that? 201 00:09:30,320 --> 00:09:32,920 Speaker 4: It may have been at the lanch or maybe slightly 202 00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:35,600 Speaker 4: before it. I think it was slightly before. 203 00:09:35,800 --> 00:09:37,840 Speaker 3: And what did you say about that medical appointment? 204 00:09:38,360 --> 00:09:41,360 Speaker 4: I think I just said I was I was having 205 00:09:41,360 --> 00:09:43,680 Speaker 4: a problem or a lump on my arm checked out? 206 00:09:44,000 --> 00:09:46,000 Speaker 3: Did you have a lump on your arm? 207 00:09:46,040 --> 00:09:47,480 Speaker 4: I thought I did at one point. 208 00:09:47,600 --> 00:09:51,200 Speaker 3: Your response, on twenty ninth of June to that message 209 00:09:51,559 --> 00:09:55,040 Speaker 3: is Hi, Gail, the appointment when? Okay? Thanks for asking. 210 00:09:55,720 --> 00:09:58,520 Speaker 3: I had a needle biopsy taken of the lump and 211 00:09:58,559 --> 00:10:01,600 Speaker 3: I'm returning for an MRI next week and we'll know 212 00:10:01,679 --> 00:10:04,640 Speaker 3: more after the results of those two things. Yeah, I 213 00:10:04,679 --> 00:10:06,520 Speaker 3: wrote that had you been to an appointment? 214 00:10:07,160 --> 00:10:07,360 Speaker 4: No? 215 00:10:07,760 --> 00:10:09,920 Speaker 3: Had you had a needle biopsy taken of the lump? 216 00:10:10,120 --> 00:10:10,280 Speaker 5: No? 217 00:10:10,720 --> 00:10:12,920 Speaker 3: Were you returning for an MIRI the next week? 218 00:10:13,320 --> 00:10:13,520 Speaker 4: No? 219 00:10:14,400 --> 00:10:17,520 Speaker 3: And were those lies? Yes? And why did you tell 220 00:10:17,520 --> 00:10:18,080 Speaker 3: those lies? 221 00:10:18,520 --> 00:10:21,520 Speaker 4: So some weeks prior, I had been having an issue 222 00:10:21,520 --> 00:10:25,240 Speaker 4: with my elbow with pain, and I thought there was 223 00:10:25,280 --> 00:10:27,439 Speaker 4: a lump there and I had told Gail and Don 224 00:10:27,520 --> 00:10:29,600 Speaker 4: about that when I saw them or spoke to them, 225 00:10:29,600 --> 00:10:32,880 Speaker 4: and they had shown quite a lot of care about that, 226 00:10:32,960 --> 00:10:36,440 Speaker 4: which felt really nice, and the issue started to resolve, 227 00:10:36,480 --> 00:10:38,600 Speaker 4: and I felt a bit embarrassed that I'd made such 228 00:10:38,600 --> 00:10:41,240 Speaker 4: a big deal about it, and I didn't I didn't 229 00:10:41,320 --> 00:10:43,280 Speaker 4: want their care of me to stop, so I just 230 00:10:43,360 --> 00:10:45,480 Speaker 4: kept it going. I shouldn't have done it. 231 00:10:45,760 --> 00:10:49,160 Speaker 2: And this is where Aaron Patterson explained that she while 232 00:10:49,200 --> 00:10:52,200 Speaker 2: she had thought that she had this particular issue with 233 00:10:52,280 --> 00:10:54,640 Speaker 2: her arm that had sort of resolved by then, that 234 00:10:54,679 --> 00:10:58,280 Speaker 2: she was actually thinking and planning, she said, to have 235 00:10:58,720 --> 00:11:01,600 Speaker 2: a different procedure, that she was planning to undergo gastric 236 00:11:01,720 --> 00:11:06,040 Speaker 2: bypass surgery to help her, she said, get control of 237 00:11:06,080 --> 00:11:08,400 Speaker 2: her weight, and she felt she didn't really have control 238 00:11:08,440 --> 00:11:09,480 Speaker 2: of her body at that time. 239 00:11:09,640 --> 00:11:12,320 Speaker 5: She remembers she told the jury thinking that she didn't 240 00:11:12,320 --> 00:11:14,320 Speaker 5: want to tell anybody, and she didn't want anybody to 241 00:11:14,320 --> 00:11:16,680 Speaker 5: know what was going on, and she was really embarrassed 242 00:11:16,840 --> 00:11:20,640 Speaker 5: and thought that at this point, maybe by allowing that 243 00:11:20,720 --> 00:11:23,200 Speaker 5: lie to go on, her in laws will be able 244 00:11:23,240 --> 00:11:24,760 Speaker 5: to help her with the care of her care of 245 00:11:24,760 --> 00:11:25,320 Speaker 5: her children. 246 00:11:25,679 --> 00:11:25,920 Speaker 1: Now. 247 00:11:25,960 --> 00:11:29,400 Speaker 2: As another part of the evidence, she was taken to 248 00:11:29,679 --> 00:11:34,040 Speaker 2: the particular meal, this particular lunch that her barrister has 249 00:11:34,120 --> 00:11:36,440 Speaker 2: noted as part of this evidence is what this trial 250 00:11:36,559 --> 00:11:39,880 Speaker 2: is all about. And as part of that, Aaron Patterson 251 00:11:39,920 --> 00:11:42,600 Speaker 2: noted that she'd invited both Gail and Heather while they 252 00:11:42,600 --> 00:11:45,560 Speaker 2: were at church, that she wanted to make this sort 253 00:11:45,600 --> 00:11:48,640 Speaker 2: of connection with both of them, and she felt that 254 00:11:48,800 --> 00:11:50,680 Speaker 2: Ian and Heather had been good to her in the past, 255 00:11:50,880 --> 00:11:53,040 Speaker 2: and so it would be nice to extend and invite 256 00:11:53,080 --> 00:11:56,280 Speaker 2: to them, because she said that Gail had previously said 257 00:11:56,559 --> 00:11:58,840 Speaker 2: when she'd spoken to her about having her guard and 258 00:11:58,920 --> 00:12:01,240 Speaker 2: done that she thought that that's something that Heather might 259 00:12:01,280 --> 00:12:02,240 Speaker 2: really enjoy seeing. 260 00:12:02,520 --> 00:12:04,920 Speaker 5: She said that when she invited her lunch guests her 261 00:12:04,920 --> 00:12:07,160 Speaker 5: in laws, she didn't give them a reason for the lunch, 262 00:12:07,360 --> 00:12:11,000 Speaker 5: but she did acknowledge that when Simon Patterson canceled and 263 00:12:11,200 --> 00:12:13,920 Speaker 5: said and texted her to say he wasn't coming shortly 264 00:12:13,960 --> 00:12:16,040 Speaker 5: before the lunch, that she revealed to him that there 265 00:12:16,040 --> 00:12:18,360 Speaker 5: were some health concerns that she wanted to talk about. 266 00:12:18,960 --> 00:12:21,440 Speaker 5: She said she grew she grew really frustrated that he 267 00:12:21,520 --> 00:12:25,160 Speaker 5: wasn't coming, and that she really wanted him to be there. 268 00:12:25,200 --> 00:12:27,400 Speaker 5: She really wanted to feel like the family was getting 269 00:12:27,440 --> 00:12:31,200 Speaker 5: around her at that time. And then the questioning turned 270 00:12:31,240 --> 00:12:34,240 Speaker 5: to more about the beef Wellington penny and why Aaron 271 00:12:34,280 --> 00:12:36,200 Speaker 5: Patterson decided to cook that particular meal. 272 00:12:36,559 --> 00:12:38,439 Speaker 2: She's told the court through her evidence that she made 273 00:12:38,440 --> 00:12:41,280 Speaker 2: a shepherd's pie for the previous family lunch. She said 274 00:12:41,480 --> 00:12:44,280 Speaker 2: that Donnegale seemed to really enjoy that, but she felt 275 00:12:44,320 --> 00:12:47,520 Speaker 2: it wasn't really a special enough meal for what she 276 00:12:47,600 --> 00:12:50,640 Speaker 2: wanted to this particular lunch occasion to be. And she 277 00:12:51,160 --> 00:12:53,720 Speaker 2: told the court that she remembered that her mum used 278 00:12:53,760 --> 00:12:57,240 Speaker 2: to make beef Wellington's on really special occasions, and she 279 00:12:57,280 --> 00:13:00,280 Speaker 2: said she'd actually never made a beef wellington herself, but 280 00:13:00,360 --> 00:13:02,520 Speaker 2: that she had this memory and she thought, well, she 281 00:13:02,640 --> 00:13:05,560 Speaker 2: might try and give that a go. And she gave 282 00:13:05,600 --> 00:13:08,040 Speaker 2: evidence that she used the recipe Tin Eats. 283 00:13:07,840 --> 00:13:10,640 Speaker 1: Cookbook YEP as the basis for this recipe. 284 00:13:10,800 --> 00:13:13,720 Speaker 2: She also was taken through her shopping history quite a 285 00:13:13,720 --> 00:13:17,000 Speaker 2: bit on the days that came before this lunch, so 286 00:13:17,360 --> 00:13:20,000 Speaker 2: particularly it was touched on the twenty third of July 287 00:13:20,160 --> 00:13:24,480 Speaker 2: and the twenty seventh and multiple purchases for pastry, and 288 00:13:24,559 --> 00:13:27,559 Speaker 2: there was also multiple purchases for mushrooms there as well 289 00:13:27,600 --> 00:13:30,240 Speaker 2: as phil Att's steak. And she told the jury a 290 00:13:30,240 --> 00:13:32,960 Speaker 2: little bit about why she said that she was making 291 00:13:32,960 --> 00:13:34,120 Speaker 2: these different purchases. 292 00:13:34,360 --> 00:13:38,480 Speaker 5: Her recollection of the events at that time was she 293 00:13:38,600 --> 00:13:41,000 Speaker 5: saw in the recipe books, in the recipe Tin Eats book, 294 00:13:41,160 --> 00:13:43,480 Speaker 5: that the beef Wellington was made in a log shape. 295 00:13:43,520 --> 00:13:45,480 Speaker 5: And at this time during her evidence, she was using 296 00:13:45,520 --> 00:13:48,440 Speaker 5: her hands penny to demonstrate the size of the beef 297 00:13:48,480 --> 00:13:51,880 Speaker 5: Wellington log to the jury as she was answering questions 298 00:13:51,920 --> 00:13:54,440 Speaker 5: from her defense barrister, and she explained that when she 299 00:13:54,520 --> 00:13:58,360 Speaker 5: was out shopping, yes, she bought pastry shalots, these types 300 00:13:58,360 --> 00:14:00,920 Speaker 5: of ingredients for the meal. When she was trying to 301 00:14:00,960 --> 00:14:04,120 Speaker 5: find meat to fit this log style beef Wellington, she 302 00:14:04,120 --> 00:14:07,160 Speaker 5: couldn't find anything big enough, so she changed her mind 303 00:14:07,200 --> 00:14:09,319 Speaker 5: and decided to buy steaks. And she said that's when 304 00:14:09,320 --> 00:14:12,000 Speaker 5: she started to adapt the recipe a little bit and 305 00:14:12,040 --> 00:14:14,480 Speaker 5: make them individual beef Wellington's. And it was at this 306 00:14:14,559 --> 00:14:17,360 Speaker 5: point she was looking up up to her right up 307 00:14:17,720 --> 00:14:20,400 Speaker 5: to the roof, and she appeared to be remembering other 308 00:14:20,520 --> 00:14:22,560 Speaker 5: changes that she made to the meal as well. 309 00:14:22,640 --> 00:14:24,240 Speaker 1: At that time, she was. 310 00:14:24,200 --> 00:14:27,240 Speaker 5: Saying that because she made the individual beef Wellington's penny, 311 00:14:27,440 --> 00:14:31,520 Speaker 5: she needed more mushroom paste because there was more surface 312 00:14:31,560 --> 00:14:33,960 Speaker 5: area that needed to be covered. 313 00:14:33,800 --> 00:14:36,720 Speaker 2: She gave evidence that she had also bought this extra 314 00:14:36,760 --> 00:14:38,760 Speaker 2: filo pastry because she felt there was a step in 315 00:14:38,760 --> 00:14:41,920 Speaker 2: the recipe involving a crepe that was a little bit difficult, 316 00:14:41,920 --> 00:14:44,240 Speaker 2: so she was trying to sort of replace another item there. 317 00:14:44,280 --> 00:14:46,680 Speaker 2: She also said the recipe called for proscuto, but that 318 00:14:46,720 --> 00:14:50,000 Speaker 2: she didn't use that because don didn't eat any pork. 319 00:14:50,400 --> 00:14:52,640 Speaker 2: So she took the court in quite a lot of 320 00:14:52,640 --> 00:14:55,480 Speaker 2: detail through what she says she did to make this 321 00:14:55,520 --> 00:14:58,920 Speaker 2: particular meal, and she said that as she was sort 322 00:14:58,920 --> 00:15:01,960 Speaker 2: of making this meal, she'd used her thermo mix to 323 00:15:02,920 --> 00:15:06,880 Speaker 2: condense down or chop up those already sliced fresh mushrooms. 324 00:15:07,080 --> 00:15:09,720 Speaker 5: These were fresh sliced mushrooms she said that had been 325 00:15:09,760 --> 00:15:13,000 Speaker 5: prepackaged that she bought from the supermarket that were covered 326 00:15:13,000 --> 00:15:16,000 Speaker 5: in clear plastic. And she added those two garlic and 327 00:15:16,000 --> 00:15:18,280 Speaker 5: shalots that were already cooking in the pan. 328 00:15:18,520 --> 00:15:22,160 Speaker 2: And she said that's when she tried this particular sort 329 00:15:22,160 --> 00:15:24,440 Speaker 2: of mixture, and she felt that it was actually a 330 00:15:24,440 --> 00:15:28,080 Speaker 2: little bit bland. So she told the jury through her 331 00:15:28,080 --> 00:15:31,000 Speaker 2: evidence that she had then gone and got decided to 332 00:15:31,040 --> 00:15:34,640 Speaker 2: add some dried mushrooms to this to try and sort 333 00:15:34,640 --> 00:15:38,240 Speaker 2: of add to that particular flavor, and in her evidence 334 00:15:38,280 --> 00:15:41,560 Speaker 2: she said that she was getting some dried mushrooms that 335 00:15:41,640 --> 00:15:46,160 Speaker 2: she remembered purchasing from a grosser in Melbourne back a 336 00:15:46,200 --> 00:15:48,400 Speaker 2: few months before this lunch. But what will take you 337 00:15:48,440 --> 00:15:51,760 Speaker 2: to now is Colin man dys as he's questioning his 338 00:15:51,920 --> 00:15:55,080 Speaker 2: client about this particular element of the preparation. 339 00:15:55,360 --> 00:15:56,840 Speaker 1: It's not anyone's real voice. 340 00:15:56,920 --> 00:16:01,440 Speaker 3: You said, he told the jury yesterday about the topperware 341 00:16:01,480 --> 00:16:04,960 Speaker 3: container that was in your pantry. Yeah, at that time, 342 00:16:05,640 --> 00:16:09,160 Speaker 3: to your knowledge, what was in that tupperware container? 343 00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:12,120 Speaker 4: At that time, I believed it was just the mushrooms 344 00:16:12,160 --> 00:16:13,440 Speaker 4: that I'd bought in Melbourne. 345 00:16:14,040 --> 00:16:17,160 Speaker 3: And now what do you think might have been in 346 00:16:17,200 --> 00:16:18,320 Speaker 3: that tupperware container? 347 00:16:19,040 --> 00:16:21,560 Speaker 4: Now, I think there was a possibility that there were 348 00:16:21,640 --> 00:16:23,280 Speaker 4: foraged ones in there as well. 349 00:16:23,760 --> 00:16:25,480 Speaker 5: Now I've got in my notes here, Penny. It was 350 00:16:25,520 --> 00:16:28,320 Speaker 5: at this point that I looked up from where I 351 00:16:28,360 --> 00:16:30,800 Speaker 5: was seated in the courtroom and I could see Aaron Patterson, 352 00:16:30,840 --> 00:16:33,920 Speaker 5: who appeared to be sobbing at this point. And it 353 00:16:33,960 --> 00:16:36,640 Speaker 5: was as she was also talking about how she introduced 354 00:16:36,680 --> 00:16:39,080 Speaker 5: those mushrooms into the meal. This was all part of 355 00:16:39,120 --> 00:16:41,800 Speaker 5: the same line of questioning, and she was also using 356 00:16:41,800 --> 00:16:44,240 Speaker 5: her hands again to express how she was cooking and 357 00:16:44,320 --> 00:16:46,880 Speaker 5: adding these dried mushrooms to the meal. And she said 358 00:16:46,880 --> 00:16:49,560 Speaker 5: that she used a little strainer with a handle and 359 00:16:49,880 --> 00:16:52,600 Speaker 5: she used that to roughly pour some water, allow some 360 00:16:52,640 --> 00:16:55,200 Speaker 5: water to be poured over them to get the crispness out, 361 00:16:55,480 --> 00:16:57,440 Speaker 5: chop them up, and then sprinkled them over what she 362 00:16:57,440 --> 00:16:59,560 Speaker 5: said was her duct cell. Then she said, you quote 363 00:16:59,600 --> 00:17:01,200 Speaker 5: push them in with an egg flip. 364 00:17:01,360 --> 00:17:04,200 Speaker 2: She gave evidence that she made six of these different 365 00:17:04,200 --> 00:17:07,480 Speaker 2: beef Wellington six parcels yep, and that she'd sort of 366 00:17:07,520 --> 00:17:11,040 Speaker 2: cooked them, and she also talked through some processes around 367 00:17:11,040 --> 00:17:14,359 Speaker 2: browning off the meat, putting that into eventually sort of 368 00:17:14,359 --> 00:17:15,800 Speaker 2: the entire process to cook these. 369 00:17:15,840 --> 00:17:18,200 Speaker 5: And then we got to a bit of a timeline 370 00:17:18,240 --> 00:17:20,680 Speaker 5: of the lunch and what happened and who was standing 371 00:17:20,720 --> 00:17:24,120 Speaker 5: where and receiving what, and that's when the questioning switched 372 00:17:24,359 --> 00:17:27,399 Speaker 5: to the plates that we used, and Aaron Patterson was 373 00:17:27,480 --> 00:17:29,879 Speaker 5: asked what plates that she had, and she took the 374 00:17:29,960 --> 00:17:31,960 Speaker 5: jury through that she think that it was a couple 375 00:17:31,960 --> 00:17:34,000 Speaker 5: of black ones, a couple of white ones. There was 376 00:17:34,040 --> 00:17:35,840 Speaker 5: one that was red on the top and black underneath, 377 00:17:35,880 --> 00:17:38,320 Speaker 5: and also one that her daughter had made her at kindergarten. 378 00:17:38,760 --> 00:17:42,240 Speaker 5: But then she was asked by Colin Mandy, do you 379 00:17:42,280 --> 00:17:44,600 Speaker 5: own any other dinner plates, and her response was no, 380 00:17:44,720 --> 00:17:47,080 Speaker 5: I did not. Then he asked did you own any 381 00:17:47,119 --> 00:17:49,639 Speaker 5: gray plates, and she also said no. Then she was 382 00:17:49,680 --> 00:17:52,520 Speaker 5: explaining as she was dishing up what food was going where, 383 00:17:52,600 --> 00:17:55,840 Speaker 5: and who was grabbing which plates, these types of things, 384 00:17:55,880 --> 00:17:58,240 Speaker 5: And then the conversation or then the evidence turned to 385 00:17:58,280 --> 00:18:02,680 Speaker 5: the conversation that was happening at the lunch table. She 386 00:18:02,760 --> 00:18:05,720 Speaker 5: was explaining that the other guests were sharing with her 387 00:18:05,840 --> 00:18:08,200 Speaker 5: the news that a family member had just had a baby, 388 00:18:08,240 --> 00:18:10,880 Speaker 5: and she was really excited about that, and later even 389 00:18:10,880 --> 00:18:14,479 Speaker 5: sent off a text message congratulation to this woman. And 390 00:18:14,520 --> 00:18:17,720 Speaker 5: then there was a little bit more information about whether 391 00:18:17,800 --> 00:18:20,440 Speaker 5: or not she saw her lunch guests take the plates, 392 00:18:20,440 --> 00:18:23,200 Speaker 5: and she said no, Penny. At that time, she turned 393 00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:26,240 Speaker 5: and she was heating up some gravy when the plates 394 00:18:26,240 --> 00:18:28,720 Speaker 5: were picked up and her recollection was By the time 395 00:18:28,760 --> 00:18:31,320 Speaker 5: she turned back around, four of the plates were already 396 00:18:31,320 --> 00:18:33,400 Speaker 5: being carried to the table, so she took the one 397 00:18:33,440 --> 00:18:34,480 Speaker 5: that was left on the bench. 398 00:18:34,680 --> 00:18:36,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, she said, there was no assigned seats at this 399 00:18:36,920 --> 00:18:39,639 Speaker 2: particular lunch and when she was doing that gravy. She 400 00:18:39,680 --> 00:18:42,200 Speaker 2: said it was a packet gravy, that it was perhaps 401 00:18:42,240 --> 00:18:45,439 Speaker 2: two packets, that she'd heat it up relatively quickly in 402 00:18:45,480 --> 00:18:48,000 Speaker 2: a saucepan. She noted it didn't take long, and she 403 00:18:48,040 --> 00:18:50,480 Speaker 2: said that's the last thing that she did before she 404 00:18:50,560 --> 00:18:53,040 Speaker 2: came and got her plate. She was asked a few 405 00:18:53,119 --> 00:18:56,920 Speaker 2: questions about if she could remember exactly who had eaten. 406 00:18:56,720 --> 00:18:58,520 Speaker 1: What and how much people had eaten. 407 00:18:59,160 --> 00:19:02,280 Speaker 5: She said that, yeah, that there was a conversation about 408 00:19:02,400 --> 00:19:04,080 Speaker 5: one of the lunch geest seating a little bit more 409 00:19:04,119 --> 00:19:06,600 Speaker 5: of somebody else's lunch, But she really remembered that there 410 00:19:06,640 --> 00:19:08,800 Speaker 5: wasn't much left on the plates afterwards, maybe a couple 411 00:19:08,880 --> 00:19:11,240 Speaker 5: of beans and a little bit of potato mash. But 412 00:19:11,440 --> 00:19:13,760 Speaker 5: she was asked why she didn't eat all of her meal, 413 00:19:14,080 --> 00:19:16,199 Speaker 5: and she explained to the jury that she'd been talking 414 00:19:16,240 --> 00:19:18,960 Speaker 5: a lot and eating quite slowly, and quote, that's about 415 00:19:18,960 --> 00:19:22,000 Speaker 5: all I can say about that. Then we heard a 416 00:19:22,040 --> 00:19:25,480 Speaker 5: little bit more about when the children returned to the house. 417 00:19:25,280 --> 00:19:28,240 Speaker 2: But we'll let the listeners hear this through the words 418 00:19:28,240 --> 00:19:30,919 Speaker 2: of Aaron Patterson and her barrister, Colin Mandy. 419 00:19:31,119 --> 00:19:32,760 Speaker 1: This is voiced by actors. 420 00:19:32,800 --> 00:19:37,240 Speaker 3: Now, during the course of the meal, what was the discussion, 421 00:19:37,800 --> 00:19:39,879 Speaker 3: as best as you can remember it from the beginning 422 00:19:39,960 --> 00:19:41,920 Speaker 3: sitting down? What did you talk about? 423 00:19:42,160 --> 00:19:44,399 Speaker 4: We talked about what we'd been up to, what had 424 00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:48,160 Speaker 4: been happening in the family, probably a bit of politics 425 00:19:48,160 --> 00:19:52,400 Speaker 4: and current affairs, about what the kids were doing. They 426 00:19:52,640 --> 00:19:55,480 Speaker 4: all asked a lot of questions about the kids, or 427 00:19:55,480 --> 00:19:59,439 Speaker 4: at least Heather and Gail did. At one point, I 428 00:19:59,480 --> 00:20:03,640 Speaker 4: remember Don talking about his brother that was battling throat cancer. 429 00:20:03,840 --> 00:20:07,000 Speaker 4: I think it was his brother Bobby. 430 00:20:07,440 --> 00:20:10,800 Speaker 3: And what happened with that conversation about cancer? Did it 431 00:20:11,000 --> 00:20:12,400 Speaker 3: move on to other topics? 432 00:20:12,760 --> 00:20:14,560 Speaker 4: It stayed at that topic at that point? 433 00:20:16,160 --> 00:20:17,520 Speaker 3: What did you say about your health? 434 00:20:17,800 --> 00:20:19,879 Speaker 4: So it was right at the end of the meal, 435 00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:23,439 Speaker 4: and I mentioned that I had maybe not scare is 436 00:20:23,480 --> 00:20:26,640 Speaker 4: the right word, but I had an issue a year 437 00:20:26,760 --> 00:20:29,000 Speaker 4: or two earlier where I thought I had a varying 438 00:20:29,119 --> 00:20:33,119 Speaker 4: cancer and had various scans about and related to that. 439 00:20:33,280 --> 00:20:36,800 Speaker 4: And I'm not proud of this, but I led them 440 00:20:36,840 --> 00:20:39,639 Speaker 4: to believe that I might be needing some treatment in 441 00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:42,520 Speaker 4: regards to that in the next few weeks or months. 442 00:20:43,000 --> 00:20:46,080 Speaker 3: Can you remember what you said about that in any 443 00:20:46,119 --> 00:20:46,760 Speaker 3: more detail? 444 00:20:47,040 --> 00:20:51,480 Speaker 4: Not specifically. I do remember I referred to upcoming treatment 445 00:20:52,280 --> 00:20:54,680 Speaker 4: because primarily in my mind was thinking I might need 446 00:20:54,760 --> 00:20:56,960 Speaker 4: help with getting the kids too and from the bus 447 00:20:57,040 --> 00:21:00,360 Speaker 4: or activities, and I might need to explain why going 448 00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:02,760 Speaker 4: out to hospital for a day or two. So that 449 00:21:02,960 --> 00:21:05,400 Speaker 4: was really the focus of what I was talking about. 450 00:21:05,840 --> 00:21:07,000 Speaker 3: Did you mislead them? 451 00:21:07,080 --> 00:21:07,520 Speaker 1: I did? 452 00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:09,680 Speaker 3: How did that conversation conclude? 453 00:21:10,560 --> 00:21:13,719 Speaker 4: They all showed a lot of compassion about that. And 454 00:21:13,760 --> 00:21:17,520 Speaker 4: then we saw Simon's car driving into the driveway coming 455 00:21:17,560 --> 00:21:20,240 Speaker 4: back with the kids, and so Ian said, why don't 456 00:21:20,280 --> 00:21:23,280 Speaker 4: we pray for Erin? And so that's what we did. 457 00:21:23,560 --> 00:21:25,720 Speaker 3: I asked you, did you mislead them? Did you lie 458 00:21:25,760 --> 00:21:26,320 Speaker 3: to them? 459 00:21:26,680 --> 00:21:27,600 Speaker 4: I did lie to them. 460 00:21:28,119 --> 00:21:29,919 Speaker 3: Why didn't you tell them the truth about what you 461 00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:30,640 Speaker 3: were intending? 462 00:21:30,840 --> 00:21:34,080 Speaker 4: I was really embarrassed. I was ashamed of the fact 463 00:21:34,080 --> 00:21:36,600 Speaker 4: that I didn't have control over my body or what 464 00:21:36,680 --> 00:21:38,760 Speaker 4: I ate. I was shamed of that and embarrassed, and 465 00:21:38,760 --> 00:21:41,560 Speaker 4: I didn't want to tell anybody and intern I shouldn't 466 00:21:41,560 --> 00:21:42,240 Speaker 4: have lied to them. 467 00:21:42,840 --> 00:21:46,040 Speaker 5: Aaron Patterson then explained to the jury Penny that after 468 00:21:46,040 --> 00:21:48,760 Speaker 5: her lunch guests left, she recalled her son coming in 469 00:21:49,040 --> 00:21:51,720 Speaker 5: and helping her clean up, and she remembered him putting 470 00:21:51,760 --> 00:21:53,560 Speaker 5: some stuff on the sink, and then he went to 471 00:21:53,640 --> 00:21:54,960 Speaker 5: the computer room with his friend. 472 00:21:55,119 --> 00:21:58,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, she said that the two boys had sort of 473 00:21:58,119 --> 00:22:00,399 Speaker 2: gone to a bit of a computer room it and 474 00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:02,720 Speaker 2: gone straight on the computers. But she noted that her 475 00:22:02,760 --> 00:22:05,399 Speaker 2: son was normally really quite good at helping clean up, 476 00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:07,280 Speaker 2: so she thought that he probably would have done that, 477 00:22:07,640 --> 00:22:10,080 Speaker 2: and that she recalled there'd been a conversation at least 478 00:22:10,119 --> 00:22:14,120 Speaker 2: between him and his grandfather about some flying related things, 479 00:22:14,280 --> 00:22:16,240 Speaker 2: and that the friend had also had a bit of 480 00:22:16,240 --> 00:22:18,400 Speaker 2: a chat she thought to the grandparents because this friend 481 00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:21,000 Speaker 2: had had previously met them before. But she said that 482 00:22:21,040 --> 00:22:24,520 Speaker 2: then once once they were sort of gone that I 483 00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:26,960 Speaker 2: and she remembered she thought had some sort of meeting 484 00:22:27,040 --> 00:22:29,000 Speaker 2: to do with the church, so then they had to 485 00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:31,520 Speaker 2: go to And then she was there in the home, 486 00:22:31,760 --> 00:22:34,080 Speaker 2: she said, cleaning up after this lunch. 487 00:22:34,640 --> 00:22:36,639 Speaker 5: Yeah, She said that the lunch guest had left behind 488 00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:38,960 Speaker 5: a fruit platter and also an orange cake. Now, she 489 00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:41,639 Speaker 5: explained the orange cake had about three quarters of the 490 00:22:41,680 --> 00:22:43,679 Speaker 5: cake left, and it was at that point that she 491 00:22:43,760 --> 00:22:46,120 Speaker 5: recalled to having a piece of the cake. She then 492 00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:49,040 Speaker 5: said she had another piece, and another piece, and another 493 00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:51,720 Speaker 5: piece penny until there was no pieces left. And at 494 00:22:51,720 --> 00:22:54,119 Speaker 5: this point she said she was feeling sick, she felt 495 00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:56,440 Speaker 5: over full, and that's when she went to the toilet 496 00:22:56,480 --> 00:22:58,000 Speaker 5: and brought it all up again. 497 00:22:58,720 --> 00:23:02,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, And Aaron Patterson had given some evidence throughout her 498 00:23:02,680 --> 00:23:06,200 Speaker 2: time being questioned that she throughout her life, she says 499 00:23:06,280 --> 00:23:08,920 Speaker 2: had had low self esteem and issues with her weight, 500 00:23:08,960 --> 00:23:11,840 Speaker 2: and that at times throughout her life she would binge 501 00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:15,720 Speaker 2: and overeat and then then she may bring this back up. Now, 502 00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:19,080 Speaker 2: she said at different times. Sometimes this would happen multiple 503 00:23:19,080 --> 00:23:21,480 Speaker 2: times a week, other times it was much less than that. 504 00:23:21,600 --> 00:23:24,280 Speaker 2: But she's previously given this evidence and then she was 505 00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:26,760 Speaker 2: taken to what had happened with this cake. 506 00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:28,119 Speaker 1: We'll be back with more of. 507 00:23:28,119 --> 00:23:31,639 Speaker 2: Aaron Patterson's evidence after this and what she said her 508 00:23:31,760 --> 00:23:35,159 Speaker 2: estranged husband asked her about a dehydrator while she was 509 00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:36,240 Speaker 2: in hospital. 510 00:23:35,840 --> 00:23:36,679 Speaker 1: Following the lunch. 511 00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:41,480 Speaker 2: Aaron Patterson has given evidence that she presented to the 512 00:23:41,560 --> 00:23:45,360 Speaker 2: Landgatha Hospital and was then taken on to the Monash Hospital. Now, 513 00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:49,000 Speaker 2: she was taken to a particular time when she was 514 00:23:49,080 --> 00:23:53,560 Speaker 2: at the Monash Hospital where she'd confirmed that she did 515 00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:56,280 Speaker 2: have a bit of contact with Simon Patterson. Her strange 516 00:23:56,320 --> 00:23:58,800 Speaker 2: husband at that time, that the children had also been 517 00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:01,320 Speaker 2: brought into the hospital and that they'd had a few 518 00:24:01,359 --> 00:24:05,120 Speaker 2: different conversations, one being about She said while the kids 519 00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:07,159 Speaker 2: were in the room, that one of the children had 520 00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:10,120 Speaker 2: asked basically about what was going on, and she said 521 00:24:10,160 --> 00:24:13,000 Speaker 2: that she'd explained she thought that a few people had 522 00:24:13,040 --> 00:24:15,320 Speaker 2: become sick, and that perhaps they'd become sick from the 523 00:24:15,359 --> 00:24:16,520 Speaker 2: meal that she'd made. 524 00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:18,560 Speaker 1: But she said that. 525 00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:20,800 Speaker 2: One of the children then asked, well, why are we 526 00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:24,520 Speaker 2: here because we didn't come to the lunch, and she explained, well, 527 00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:27,199 Speaker 2: you ate the leftovers. She said previously in her evidence 528 00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:29,520 Speaker 2: that this sixth beef Wellington that she'd talked about, that 529 00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:31,560 Speaker 2: she'd cooked it but put it straight in the fridge, 530 00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:34,399 Speaker 2: she says before she actually served up the rest of 531 00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:37,040 Speaker 2: this meal for the guests, and she told the jury 532 00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:39,600 Speaker 2: that she gave the children that that for dinner, but 533 00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:41,919 Speaker 2: had scraped off the mushrooms and said she said that 534 00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:44,400 Speaker 2: to that child, But then there was a further discussion 535 00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:46,320 Speaker 2: about mushrooms that went from there. 536 00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:48,920 Speaker 5: This was a point in her evidence where she explained 537 00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:51,080 Speaker 5: to the jury that Simon Patterson and herself had been 538 00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:53,080 Speaker 5: left alone in that hospital room. 539 00:24:53,119 --> 00:24:55,159 Speaker 2: And let's hear a little bit about how this was 540 00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:58,439 Speaker 2: presented by Aaron Patterson and her barrister, Colin Mandy. 541 00:24:58,760 --> 00:25:01,320 Speaker 3: And did you and Simon have any conversation? 542 00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:05,080 Speaker 4: Yeah, so during that conversation with the children about the 543 00:25:05,119 --> 00:25:08,879 Speaker 4: taste tests, and you had discussed in that conversation that 544 00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:12,040 Speaker 4: I had dried the mushrooms. And I don't remember if 545 00:25:12,040 --> 00:25:14,560 Speaker 4: it was Simon or I that had initiated it, but 546 00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:17,320 Speaker 4: there was a conversation about how I had used a 547 00:25:17,359 --> 00:25:20,760 Speaker 4: dehydrator or to do that, and he said to me, 548 00:25:21,119 --> 00:25:24,680 Speaker 4: is that how you poisoned my parents using that dehydrator? 549 00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:26,080 Speaker 3: And what was your response? 550 00:25:26,280 --> 00:25:27,280 Speaker 4: I said, of course not. 551 00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:30,840 Speaker 3: Did that comment by Simon cause you to reflect on 552 00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:32,600 Speaker 3: what might have been in the meal? 553 00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:34,960 Speaker 4: It caused me to a lot of thinking about a 554 00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:38,000 Speaker 4: lot of things. Yeah, well, it caused me to reflect 555 00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:39,520 Speaker 4: a lot and what might have happened. 556 00:25:39,840 --> 00:25:43,239 Speaker 3: Okay, well, can you explain to us what crossed your 557 00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:45,560 Speaker 3: mind then and what you were thinking about? 558 00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:47,720 Speaker 4: So it got me thinking about all the times that 559 00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:50,560 Speaker 4: i'd used it. And I had used the dehydrator, that's right, 560 00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:53,720 Speaker 4: And I had dried forage mushrooms in it weeks earlier 561 00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:56,240 Speaker 4: and I was starting to think, what if they'd gone 562 00:25:56,320 --> 00:25:59,639 Speaker 4: in the container with the Chinese mushrooms, Maybe maybe that 563 00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:04,680 Speaker 4: had happened. Yeah, I was thinking, maybe that's how this all. 564 00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:08,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, how did that make you feel scared? 565 00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:13,119 Speaker 4: Responsible, really worried because child protection were involved, and Simon 566 00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:15,679 Speaker 4: seemed to be of the mind that maybe this was intentional, 567 00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:18,360 Speaker 4: and I just I just got really scared. 568 00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:19,200 Speaker 1: Yeah. 569 00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:21,680 Speaker 2: So Aaron Patterson, as the listeners have just heard through 570 00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:25,040 Speaker 2: that evidence. Around this time, she said that they had 571 00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:27,800 Speaker 2: been in touch with child Protection at the hospital, that 572 00:26:27,840 --> 00:26:31,480 Speaker 2: there'd been some conversations with some workers while they she 573 00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:33,879 Speaker 2: and the children were at that medical facility. 574 00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:36,000 Speaker 5: Yeah, she said in the coming days as well, after 575 00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:40,440 Speaker 5: she left hospital, she met and spoke to employees from 576 00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:42,840 Speaker 5: the Department of Health and also child Protection, and it 577 00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:44,840 Speaker 5: was at this point she explained that she started to 578 00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:47,520 Speaker 5: feel worried that they may remove her children, and she 579 00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:49,440 Speaker 5: said this was when she made the decision to dump 580 00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:52,480 Speaker 5: the dehydrator at the tip. And then there was also 581 00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:55,320 Speaker 5: a little bit more evidence from her about the fact 582 00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:59,800 Speaker 5: that she recalled with holding information about the fact that 583 00:26:59,840 --> 00:27:02,840 Speaker 5: she had gone and forage mushrooms at some point. She 584 00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:05,600 Speaker 5: said though that she really believed what she was telling 585 00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:09,080 Speaker 5: these officials was true. She really believed at that time 586 00:27:09,119 --> 00:27:12,000 Speaker 5: that the vast majority of mushrooms in the meal were 587 00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:14,880 Speaker 5: from Woolworths and from this Asian grosser, and she recalled 588 00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:17,200 Speaker 5: that her mind started to shift in and think about 589 00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:19,040 Speaker 5: whether or not there may have been other mushrooms that 590 00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:20,400 Speaker 5: could have made their way into the meal. 591 00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:23,480 Speaker 2: As you mentioned, with the dumping of the dehydrator, she 592 00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:27,040 Speaker 2: said that she did, she panicked, and that she made 593 00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:29,760 Speaker 2: that decision because she was concerned she was going to 594 00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:32,840 Speaker 2: have her children taken away from her. And she also 595 00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:35,280 Speaker 2: said that because she knew Child Protection were going to 596 00:27:35,320 --> 00:27:37,480 Speaker 2: be coming to her home for this home visit. In 597 00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:40,280 Speaker 2: her words, she thought that perhaps they might start asking 598 00:27:40,359 --> 00:27:43,880 Speaker 2: questions about this dehydrator, so she'd gone through the process, 599 00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:46,359 Speaker 2: she said, of going to the tip and removing it 600 00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:47,280 Speaker 2: before that visit. 601 00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:50,920 Speaker 5: One of the next and final topics of questioning that 602 00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:54,760 Speaker 5: Colin Mandy was asking his client during her third day 603 00:27:54,760 --> 00:27:57,240 Speaker 5: of evidence Penny was something. 604 00:27:56,920 --> 00:27:58,639 Speaker 1: Called Exhibit fifty six. 605 00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:01,719 Speaker 5: Now Exhibit fifty six, the jury were told, was a 606 00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:05,479 Speaker 5: document that shows a number of factory reset records relating 607 00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:07,760 Speaker 5: to a phone that it was in Aaron Patterson's possession 608 00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:10,199 Speaker 5: in twenty twenty three, and there was a number of 609 00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:12,760 Speaker 5: factory resets we heard in the lead up too and 610 00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:15,000 Speaker 5: after the lunch, and she said that the first one 611 00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:18,080 Speaker 5: of those factory resets occurred in February twenty twenty three 612 00:28:18,119 --> 00:28:20,760 Speaker 5: when she was changing phones with her son. There was 613 00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:24,600 Speaker 5: a string of factory resets, Penny, that were then asked 614 00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:28,600 Speaker 5: about that happened in August twenty twenty three. She said that, yes, 615 00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:31,159 Speaker 5: they were mine. I did those factory resets, and she 616 00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:33,720 Speaker 5: did them, she said for a couple of different reasons. Now, 617 00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:39,280 Speaker 5: one of those was that she was concerned that around 618 00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:41,440 Speaker 5: the fifth of August, this is at a time when 619 00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:44,960 Speaker 5: police were raiding her property. Around this time, she was 620 00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:47,880 Speaker 5: concerned that there was an app on her phone, a 621 00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:50,920 Speaker 5: Google account which had photos in it. In Google photos 622 00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:54,080 Speaker 5: that she knew depicted mushrooms in her dehydrator. And this 623 00:28:54,120 --> 00:28:56,320 Speaker 5: is another occasion, Penny. She said, she panicked and she 624 00:28:56,360 --> 00:28:58,120 Speaker 5: did not want the detectives to see them. 625 00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:01,440 Speaker 2: So she said that in the first reset that she 626 00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:04,280 Speaker 2: said she was responsible for in that August time, that 627 00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:06,920 Speaker 2: she'd been sort of looking at changing her handset. She 628 00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:08,840 Speaker 2: also gave some evidence that at one point she thought 629 00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:11,720 Speaker 2: she might change her number because she said she'd been 630 00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:14,959 Speaker 2: concerned about what Simon Patterson had said to her at 631 00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:18,040 Speaker 2: the hospital regarding the allegation about his parents, and that 632 00:29:18,320 --> 00:29:20,280 Speaker 2: she didn't really want him to necessarily be able to 633 00:29:20,280 --> 00:29:22,560 Speaker 2: call her now. Ultimately, she said she didn't end up 634 00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:25,720 Speaker 2: changing her number, but that she was looking at different 635 00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:27,880 Speaker 2: phones at that time, So she said she'd done that reset, 636 00:29:28,120 --> 00:29:31,080 Speaker 2: then she'd done the one that she thought in regards 637 00:29:31,120 --> 00:29:33,760 Speaker 2: to panicking about photos that were on that device, and 638 00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:36,360 Speaker 2: then there was this other reset once she had handed 639 00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:38,600 Speaker 2: that phone over to police. 640 00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:39,920 Speaker 1: We'll hear a little bit of how this. 641 00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:42,800 Speaker 2: Was explained in the courtroom with Aaron Patterson and Colin Mandy. 642 00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:46,560 Speaker 3: Then these records show that at some stage on around 643 00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:49,720 Speaker 3: the fifth of August, there was another factory reset of 644 00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:54,120 Speaker 3: that phone. Yes, what data was on that phone at 645 00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:56,320 Speaker 3: the time of that factory reset, just. 646 00:29:56,480 --> 00:29:58,840 Speaker 4: All the apps had put on it since the third 647 00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:00,000 Speaker 4: And why were. 648 00:29:59,920 --> 00:30:03,400 Speaker 3: We factory resetting at that time? Well, because sorry, I 649 00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:05,920 Speaker 3: shouldn't say, at that time, at about that time, on that. 650 00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:08,440 Speaker 4: Date, I had put all my apps on it, including 651 00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:12,200 Speaker 4: my Google account, which included my Google Photos and I 652 00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:15,520 Speaker 4: knew there were photos in there of mushrooms and the dehydrator, 653 00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:16,400 Speaker 4: and I just panicked. 654 00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:17,880 Speaker 1: I didn't want them to see them. 655 00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:19,640 Speaker 3: When you say them, who do you mean? 656 00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:21,080 Speaker 1: The detectives. 657 00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:25,040 Speaker 3: And then the last of those resets is on or 658 00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:28,680 Speaker 3: about six August. Yes, what data was on that phone 659 00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:30,080 Speaker 3: on the sixth of August? 660 00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:30,840 Speaker 1: Nothing? 661 00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:32,560 Speaker 3: Did you do that factory reset? 662 00:30:32,800 --> 00:30:33,200 Speaker 1: I did? 663 00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:34,520 Speaker 3: And why did you do that? 664 00:30:34,520 --> 00:30:34,720 Speaker 2: One? 665 00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:38,240 Speaker 4: So at some point, after the search of my house 666 00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:40,760 Speaker 4: and the interview and the detectives have brought me home, 667 00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:43,520 Speaker 4: I remember thinking, I wonder if I could log onto 668 00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:46,040 Speaker 4: my Google account and see where all my devices are. 669 00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:48,880 Speaker 4: So I did that, and I could see my phone 670 00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:52,360 Speaker 4: and my son's phone and my daughter's bus tablet. And 671 00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:55,480 Speaker 4: it was really stupid, but I thought, I wonder if 672 00:30:55,560 --> 00:30:58,840 Speaker 4: they'd been silly enough to leave it connected to the internet. 673 00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:02,440 Speaker 4: So I hit factory reset to see what happened, and 674 00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:02,880 Speaker 4: it did. 675 00:31:03,640 --> 00:31:06,560 Speaker 5: At this point, Penny, I looked to my right and 676 00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:10,080 Speaker 5: in the front row, that's where the police informant was sitting. 677 00:31:10,480 --> 00:31:13,840 Speaker 5: And this is at a point where she was explaining, 678 00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:17,000 Speaker 5: as we just heard in her quotes, that she wanted 679 00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:18,880 Speaker 5: to see if they were silly enough to leave it 680 00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:21,959 Speaker 5: on now. Stephen eppings Stall, the detective leadings and your 681 00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:25,040 Speaker 5: constable in this case, the police informant had his left 682 00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:27,760 Speaker 5: hand over his mouth at that stage. He was turned 683 00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:30,400 Speaker 5: and looking at Aaron Patterson, but I didn't see much 684 00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:31,520 Speaker 5: of a reaction from him. 685 00:31:32,040 --> 00:31:36,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, and it was really a lot of heavy device evidence. 686 00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:39,200 Speaker 2: Towards the end of this evidence, people who've been listening 687 00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:41,040 Speaker 2: to the podcast for a while will probably know that 688 00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:45,280 Speaker 2: there has been multiple elements of phone data and things 689 00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:48,680 Speaker 2: that have been explained through multiple different devices, and Aaron 690 00:31:48,680 --> 00:31:51,680 Speaker 2: Patterson has taken through a number of photos from the 691 00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:54,720 Speaker 2: searches of her home and explaining where she said that 692 00:31:54,800 --> 00:31:58,520 Speaker 2: things were laptops, that things were phones, and sort. 693 00:31:58,320 --> 00:31:59,960 Speaker 1: Of where they had been and where. 694 00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:02,800 Speaker 2: So, while they talked about these multiple different phones through 695 00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:07,040 Speaker 2: Aaron Patterson's evidence and went through different devices, she was asked, 696 00:32:07,120 --> 00:32:09,800 Speaker 2: particularly at the end of her evidence, what had happened 697 00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:11,920 Speaker 2: to phone A as it's been referred to. 698 00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:13,920 Speaker 1: In the courtroom. And here's a little bit of what 699 00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:14,720 Speaker 1: the jury heard. 700 00:32:14,920 --> 00:32:18,200 Speaker 3: Where was phone A at this time on the second 701 00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:18,880 Speaker 3: of November. 702 00:32:20,320 --> 00:32:23,120 Speaker 4: Well, I don't know where it was on second of November, 703 00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:26,400 Speaker 4: But towards the end of September. I got a skip 704 00:32:26,440 --> 00:32:28,560 Speaker 4: brought to Gibson Street and it went in there with 705 00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:30,120 Speaker 4: a lot of other broken stuff. 706 00:32:30,280 --> 00:32:32,360 Speaker 3: And why did you get a skip at the end 707 00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:34,440 Speaker 3: of did you say the end of September? 708 00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:35,640 Speaker 4: The end of September? 709 00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:36,440 Speaker 3: Yeah, why was that? 710 00:32:36,800 --> 00:32:38,840 Speaker 4: It was something I did roughly once a year, just 711 00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:41,040 Speaker 4: to do a clean out of the house and garage. 712 00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:43,320 Speaker 5: Now a reminder to our listeners that this is day 713 00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:45,840 Speaker 5: three of Aaron Patterson being in the witness box, but 714 00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:49,160 Speaker 5: she's still being questioned by her defense barrister Colin Mandy 715 00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:52,520 Speaker 5: as a defense witness. It will next be the prosecution's 716 00:32:52,520 --> 00:32:54,640 Speaker 5: decision if they would like to ask questions of her, 717 00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:57,000 Speaker 5: but at this stage the evidence that we've brought you 718 00:32:57,080 --> 00:33:00,760 Speaker 5: from Aaron Patterson has come by questioning from her defense barrister. 719 00:33:02,520 --> 00:33:04,920 Speaker 2: Thank you for listening to this episode of Say Grace. 720 00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:07,000 Speaker 2: Please press the follow button in your app to get 721 00:33:07,040 --> 00:33:09,360 Speaker 2: our next episodes as soon as we publish. 722 00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:11,760 Speaker 5: For more reporting on the case, check out the Age 723 00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:13,760 Speaker 5: of nine News in your browser or app store. 724 00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:16,160 Speaker 2: We'd like to acknowledge the traditional owners of the land 725 00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:19,080 Speaker 2: that this podcast was recorded on and wherever you're listening 726 00:33:19,120 --> 00:33:22,040 Speaker 2: to it. Now Say Grace is created and hosted. 727 00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:25,440 Speaker 1: By me Penelope Leash, and me erin person. This podcast 728 00:33:25,520 --> 00:33:27,040 Speaker 1: is produced by Genevieve Rule.