1 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:08,560 S1: Inflation has risen again and the markets are already tipping 2 00:00:08,560 --> 00:00:12,640 S1: that interest rates are likely to increase next week in response. 3 00:00:13,280 --> 00:00:17,360 S1: I'm Tammy Mills filling in for Samantha Salinger Morris. And 4 00:00:17,360 --> 00:00:20,480 S1: you're listening to Morning Edition from The Age and the 5 00:00:20,480 --> 00:00:26,599 S1: Sydney Morning Herald. Today, senior economics correspondent Shane Wright explains 6 00:00:26,600 --> 00:00:30,280 S1: what is driving the spike in inflation and what it 7 00:00:30,280 --> 00:00:43,360 S1: says about where Australia's economy is headed. It's Thursday, January 29th. Well, Shane, 8 00:00:43,360 --> 00:00:44,560 S1: thanks for joining us. 9 00:00:44,680 --> 00:00:46,440 S2: It's always a pleasure to talk to you, Tammy. 10 00:00:46,960 --> 00:00:50,720 S1: Inflation figures were released on Wednesday. So let's start with 11 00:00:50,720 --> 00:00:51,680 S1: what they were. 12 00:00:52,159 --> 00:00:56,640 S2: Numbers. Numbers. Just so many numbers. But ultimately just there's 13 00:00:56,640 --> 00:01:00,200 S2: two really important ones. The one is the headline rate, 14 00:01:00,200 --> 00:01:04,790 S2: which takes into account everything. And that showed inflation lifted 15 00:01:04,790 --> 00:01:09,430 S2: again through December and took the annual rate to 3.8%. 16 00:01:10,310 --> 00:01:12,789 S2: But the reserve Bank, its job is really at the 17 00:01:12,790 --> 00:01:17,230 S2: moment looking at underlying inflation. And for those who aren't 18 00:01:17,350 --> 00:01:22,870 S2: aficionados of economic jargon, the underlying inflation sort of clips 19 00:01:22,870 --> 00:01:25,790 S2: out the things that are going up the most very 20 00:01:25,790 --> 00:01:30,150 S2: quickly and those that are coming down, and that actually 21 00:01:30,150 --> 00:01:36,150 S2: lifted slightly to 3.35%, which is a bit above what 22 00:01:36,150 --> 00:01:40,030 S2: the reserve Bank had been expecting. So the response that 23 00:01:40,030 --> 00:01:42,950 S2: we've seen immediately from all these numbers has been, oh 24 00:01:42,990 --> 00:01:45,190 S2: my God, the Reserve Bank's probably going to have to 25 00:01:45,270 --> 00:01:47,230 S2: take some action when it meets next week. 26 00:01:47,590 --> 00:01:48,110 S1: Okay. 27 00:01:48,550 --> 00:01:51,470 S2: And they'll be going through these numbers and some of 28 00:01:51,470 --> 00:01:54,950 S2: the other numbers that have been floating around, such as unemployment, 29 00:01:54,990 --> 00:01:57,990 S2: what Donald Trump's been getting up to. Like these figures 30 00:01:57,990 --> 00:02:01,150 S2: that we've seen in the inflation data actually shows some 31 00:02:01,150 --> 00:02:05,540 S2: of the impact of Donald Trump policy. And then Tuesday afternoon, 32 00:02:05,740 --> 00:02:10,340 S2: reserve Bank Governor Michele Bullock will get up about 3:30 33 00:02:10,340 --> 00:02:13,859 S2: and explain probably why they've had to lift the cash 34 00:02:13,860 --> 00:02:16,940 S2: rate from 3.6% to 3.85%. 35 00:02:17,340 --> 00:02:19,500 S1: So before we get into that, can you go back 36 00:02:19,500 --> 00:02:23,459 S1: to the inflation figures and tell us what the increase 37 00:02:23,460 --> 00:02:26,899 S1: actually means and what the reason behind that hike is? 38 00:02:27,620 --> 00:02:32,180 S2: As I said, numbers, numbers everywhere. For instance, the prices 39 00:02:32,180 --> 00:02:36,900 S2: of international flights jumped by a bit over 24% in 40 00:02:36,940 --> 00:02:40,660 S2: a single month. Like a lot of that is because 41 00:02:40,700 --> 00:02:45,220 S2: what do most Australians do in December or January? Take 42 00:02:45,220 --> 00:02:48,700 S2: a holiday somewhere. So it looks like that is the 43 00:02:48,700 --> 00:02:54,220 S2: single largest increase in monthly data that we've ever seen. 44 00:02:54,700 --> 00:02:59,540 S2: Domestic flights also lifted 10%, which is a very substantial 45 00:02:59,540 --> 00:03:02,579 S2: increase as well. So look, if you want someone to blame, 46 00:03:02,740 --> 00:03:05,100 S2: head down to Qantas. Head down to United. Head down 47 00:03:05,100 --> 00:03:08,540 S2: to British Airways and have a real crack. So that's 48 00:03:08,540 --> 00:03:11,900 S2: one key issue. Another key one has been what's going 49 00:03:11,900 --> 00:03:15,340 S2: on with electricity. The last major subsidies that have been 50 00:03:15,340 --> 00:03:19,820 S2: washing out of the system have been in Queensland and 51 00:03:19,820 --> 00:03:25,540 S2: in Western Australia. So that lifted the inflation for electricity 52 00:03:25,580 --> 00:03:30,019 S2: over the last 12 months, but lifted by 21%. And 53 00:03:30,020 --> 00:03:31,859 S2: most of that is to do due to the end 54 00:03:31,860 --> 00:03:34,139 S2: of the subsidies which have occurred in the last six months. 55 00:03:34,139 --> 00:03:38,500 S2: It is no surprise that the the the highest inflation 56 00:03:38,500 --> 00:03:41,820 S2: rates at a capital city level are actually in Brisbane, 57 00:03:41,820 --> 00:03:46,020 S2: where it's more than 5%, and in Perth, where it's 4.4%. 58 00:03:46,060 --> 00:03:51,060 S2: By contrast, in Melbourne it's 3.1%. So they give you 59 00:03:51,060 --> 00:03:54,460 S2: a really good idea because the electricity prices have been 60 00:03:54,460 --> 00:03:58,020 S2: going on. The subsidies have been state by state. And 61 00:03:58,020 --> 00:04:00,580 S2: so this gives you an idea of what's going on. 62 00:04:00,860 --> 00:04:05,170 S2: I mentioned Donald Trump. Prices for beef have been and 63 00:04:05,210 --> 00:04:07,330 S2: and lamb have climbed by more than 10% over the 64 00:04:07,330 --> 00:04:10,450 S2: last 12 months. The Bureau of Stats says this is 65 00:04:10,450 --> 00:04:13,930 S2: because we are effectively shipping as many cows as we can, 66 00:04:14,330 --> 00:04:18,330 S2: or bits of cows to Donald Trump to feed hungry 67 00:04:18,330 --> 00:04:21,610 S2: Americans because one, they've had a drought, uh, which is 68 00:04:22,089 --> 00:04:25,210 S2: really reduced their cattle herd. And two, we've got a 69 00:04:25,210 --> 00:04:27,850 S2: lot of cows and the best prices for the moment, 70 00:04:27,850 --> 00:04:31,290 S2: even with Donald Trump's tariffs, are in the United States. 71 00:04:31,290 --> 00:04:35,490 S2: So they're really big key factors. And the other big 72 00:04:35,490 --> 00:04:38,570 S2: one on the upside is actually what's going on in 73 00:04:38,570 --> 00:04:41,969 S2: housing and housing construction, because we're trying to build a 74 00:04:41,970 --> 00:04:44,210 S2: lot of homes. You try to do a lot of 75 00:04:44,210 --> 00:04:48,250 S2: things at once. That means there's a squeeze on the resources. 76 00:04:48,529 --> 00:04:50,890 S2: We've seen some of the tariff problems that have been 77 00:04:51,170 --> 00:04:54,010 S2: created by Donald Trump feeding into the prices of some 78 00:04:54,010 --> 00:04:56,450 S2: of those goods, but we're still trying to build a 79 00:04:56,450 --> 00:04:59,370 S2: lot of homes all at once. So that's feeding through 80 00:04:59,370 --> 00:05:01,930 S2: into the cost of building a new home at the moment. 81 00:05:02,480 --> 00:05:05,480 S1: And back to basics because I am not an economics 82 00:05:05,480 --> 00:05:09,280 S1: expert at all. What does inflation actually measure? And can 83 00:05:09,279 --> 00:05:12,360 S1: you tell us how a rise in inflation might affect 84 00:05:12,360 --> 00:05:13,279 S1: us day to day? 85 00:05:14,120 --> 00:05:18,280 S2: So think about young Tammy going out shopping in the 86 00:05:18,279 --> 00:05:21,880 S2: main streets of Melbourne, for instance. And you've got a basket, 87 00:05:22,360 --> 00:05:26,680 S2: a basket of everything that you spend your money on 88 00:05:26,920 --> 00:05:31,200 S2: every week. So there's like the single largest expense for 89 00:05:31,240 --> 00:05:35,320 S2: most households is petrol. And petrol prices actually lifted a 90 00:05:35,320 --> 00:05:40,279 S2: little over the last quarter. Housing, which means everything from 91 00:05:40,279 --> 00:05:42,640 S2: the utilities bill to the building of a new home 92 00:05:42,640 --> 00:05:47,200 S2: to rents, it takes up more than 20% of that basket. 93 00:05:47,200 --> 00:05:50,520 S2: Then you've got your fruit and veg. Uh, you've you've 94 00:05:50,520 --> 00:05:53,640 S2: got childcare, for instance, which we've seen, there's been a 95 00:05:53,640 --> 00:05:59,680 S2: lift in prices for childcare. Um, so services from the vet, um, 96 00:05:59,720 --> 00:06:03,910 S2: vet services have been going, been lifting pretty heftily ever 97 00:06:03,910 --> 00:06:08,430 S2: since Covid, so it's all measured in that. Ultimately, the 98 00:06:08,430 --> 00:06:12,070 S2: reserve Bank wants to keep the rate of inflation growth 99 00:06:12,070 --> 00:06:15,750 S2: between 2 and 3%. So some people say, why don't 100 00:06:15,750 --> 00:06:18,510 S2: you want prices falling? Well, we had a had a 101 00:06:18,510 --> 00:06:21,229 S2: real go at reducing prices. It was called the Great 102 00:06:21,230 --> 00:06:25,630 S2: Depression through the 1930s. So if you actually push prices down, 103 00:06:25,630 --> 00:06:28,550 S2: people stop spending because they think prices are going to 104 00:06:28,550 --> 00:06:30,750 S2: keep coming down and down and down. I won't have 105 00:06:30,750 --> 00:06:33,230 S2: to spend as much. So you you stop the entire 106 00:06:33,230 --> 00:06:35,710 S2: economy as well. Prices going up and up and up 107 00:06:35,950 --> 00:06:39,790 S2: really hurt, particularly people on low incomes or fixed incomes, 108 00:06:39,790 --> 00:06:42,150 S2: because they can't buy as much, they can't buy as 109 00:06:42,150 --> 00:06:45,190 S2: much as they need or want. So reserve Bank says 110 00:06:45,230 --> 00:06:48,430 S2: sweet spot if for this country is between 2 and 3%, 111 00:06:49,070 --> 00:06:51,150 S2: we are not near that right at the moment. 112 00:06:53,029 --> 00:06:54,029 S1: After the break. 113 00:06:54,910 --> 00:06:58,510 S2: So there are people thinking maybe two rate rises this 114 00:06:58,510 --> 00:07:01,710 S2: year would pull you up. Uh, and then you may 115 00:07:01,710 --> 00:07:04,780 S2: not see rate movement for some time. 116 00:07:16,420 --> 00:07:19,220 S1: And so then how does the inflation rate correlate with 117 00:07:19,220 --> 00:07:22,500 S1: interest rates. Because you were talking about an RBA meeting 118 00:07:22,500 --> 00:07:25,619 S1: next week and the cash rate. Explain to me what's 119 00:07:25,620 --> 00:07:27,700 S1: going on with with the meeting next week and what 120 00:07:27,700 --> 00:07:29,780 S1: what we're expected to see out of it. 121 00:07:29,820 --> 00:07:32,580 S2: So the cash rate effectively is setting the cost of 122 00:07:32,580 --> 00:07:36,660 S2: money in this country. Now, for the last 30 odd years, 123 00:07:36,660 --> 00:07:39,980 S2: the reserve Bank, along with most other central banks, says 124 00:07:40,220 --> 00:07:44,060 S2: the way to target inflation is to target the price 125 00:07:44,060 --> 00:07:46,220 S2: of money. So if we push up the price of 126 00:07:46,220 --> 00:07:49,180 S2: money like it's only, um, two years ago, that the 127 00:07:49,180 --> 00:07:54,900 S2: cash rate was, well, was 4.35%. Um, we go back 128 00:07:54,900 --> 00:07:59,900 S2: to 1989, 1990 when it was 16, 17, 18%. So 129 00:07:59,940 --> 00:08:03,180 S2: that the idea then is to lift the lift or 130 00:08:03,380 --> 00:08:07,660 S2: reduce the the price of money, the cash rate to 131 00:08:07,700 --> 00:08:11,140 S2: affect those particularly with mortgages. They the ones who really 132 00:08:11,140 --> 00:08:15,420 S2: get are in the firing line to reduce their spending 133 00:08:15,420 --> 00:08:18,540 S2: or increase their spending. That's how the reserve Bank thinks 134 00:08:18,540 --> 00:08:19,100 S2: about it. 135 00:08:19,300 --> 00:08:21,660 S1: Okay. And so what are you tipping for next week? 136 00:08:21,700 --> 00:08:25,500 S2: Then we've got into this whole mindset that a cash 137 00:08:25,500 --> 00:08:31,500 S2: rate of 3.6% is normal. When John Howard famously declared 138 00:08:31,500 --> 00:08:34,580 S2: interest rates will always be lower under a coalition government. 139 00:08:34,580 --> 00:08:37,700 S2: So that's less than that's 20 years ago. The cash 140 00:08:37,700 --> 00:08:41,340 S2: rate was at 3.85%. That was the record low. So 141 00:08:41,820 --> 00:08:44,700 S2: that's been affected by the fact that Australians have the 142 00:08:44,700 --> 00:08:48,580 S2: largest mortgages going around. We get really heavily affected by 143 00:08:48,580 --> 00:08:51,940 S2: what's going on with interest rates, but then it also 144 00:08:51,940 --> 00:08:55,819 S2: affects the value of the currency. So the Australian dollar, 145 00:08:56,020 --> 00:09:00,460 S2: for instance, has hit a three year high of US $0.70, uh, 146 00:09:00,500 --> 00:09:05,890 S2: just before the announcement of the inflation figures. And that's 147 00:09:05,890 --> 00:09:09,690 S2: a reflection of where investors think interest rates are going 148 00:09:09,690 --> 00:09:13,290 S2: to go and the relative strength of the United States economy. 149 00:09:13,330 --> 00:09:18,610 S2: There's concerns about what's going on there. It affects business decisions. 150 00:09:18,929 --> 00:09:22,970 S2: So we talk about people with mortgages because that's about 151 00:09:22,970 --> 00:09:25,969 S2: a third of the population. But there's another third who 152 00:09:26,010 --> 00:09:29,329 S2: don't have a mortgage, who have savings. And they benefit 153 00:09:29,330 --> 00:09:32,450 S2: from higher interest rates as well. They probably don't spend 154 00:09:32,450 --> 00:09:36,450 S2: quite as much as people with mortgages. But people on 155 00:09:36,450 --> 00:09:40,730 S2: a fixed income think of a self-funded retiree benefits from 156 00:09:40,730 --> 00:09:45,970 S2: higher interest rates in that regard. So that's all mulling 157 00:09:45,970 --> 00:09:50,570 S2: around for the reserve Bank next week. Financial markets now 158 00:09:50,610 --> 00:09:54,570 S2: they before the meeting they had the cash rate a 60% 159 00:09:54,570 --> 00:09:56,770 S2: chance of the cash rate going up. They now put 160 00:09:56,770 --> 00:09:58,290 S2: it at about 70%. 161 00:09:58,570 --> 00:10:00,569 S1: And is that unexpected, do you think because it was 162 00:10:00,570 --> 00:10:03,760 S1: only what in August last year that the rate right 163 00:10:03,760 --> 00:10:04,480 S1: was cut. 164 00:10:05,080 --> 00:10:08,840 S2: Yeah, but we've seen the last like the last two 165 00:10:08,840 --> 00:10:12,960 S2: inflation reports have shown. Yet there is definitely inflation going on. 166 00:10:13,320 --> 00:10:17,360 S2: Another issue is what's going on in the jobs market. Unemployment. 167 00:10:17,360 --> 00:10:20,040 S2: Last week we got a read showing it had fallen 168 00:10:20,040 --> 00:10:24,280 S2: to 4.1%. But even that, like we in economics, people 169 00:10:24,280 --> 00:10:27,679 S2: talk about the two handed economist. On the one hand, 170 00:10:27,880 --> 00:10:31,960 S2: unemployment has fallen to 4.1%, but on the other hand, 171 00:10:32,600 --> 00:10:36,679 S2: the rate of job creation is really slowing down. Uh, 172 00:10:36,679 --> 00:10:40,360 S2: over the last 12 months, job growth, uh, was 1.2%. 173 00:10:40,400 --> 00:10:44,280 S2: The previous year, it was more than double that. So 174 00:10:44,280 --> 00:10:46,520 S2: even though the unemployment rate's coming down, the number of 175 00:10:46,520 --> 00:10:50,200 S2: jobs being created, the rate of growth is actually slowing. 176 00:10:50,200 --> 00:10:52,360 S2: So those two things are telling you different things about 177 00:10:52,360 --> 00:10:53,920 S2: what's going on in the jobs market. 178 00:10:54,480 --> 00:10:57,400 S1: Okay. And so what's the expectation for this year then. 179 00:10:57,880 --> 00:11:01,560 S1: Do you think there'll be a stabilization in interest rates. 180 00:11:01,600 --> 00:11:03,040 S1: What do you think's going to happen. 181 00:11:03,400 --> 00:11:06,150 S2: It's hard to see them getting it back over 4%. 182 00:11:06,870 --> 00:11:10,670 S2: Like I think you can see a rate increase, but 183 00:11:10,670 --> 00:11:12,830 S2: then you go, hold on. The overall economy is not 184 00:11:12,830 --> 00:11:16,790 S2: growing that quickly. So that's when the reserve Bank says, oh, 185 00:11:16,830 --> 00:11:19,790 S2: hold on. We have to balance what's going on in 186 00:11:19,790 --> 00:11:24,230 S2: the jobs market, the overall economy and with what's going 187 00:11:24,270 --> 00:11:26,870 S2: on in inflation. So the reserve Bank is is not 188 00:11:26,870 --> 00:11:29,470 S2: fixated just on one number and goes. That's all we 189 00:11:29,470 --> 00:11:30,910 S2: have to worry about. They have to worry about a 190 00:11:30,910 --> 00:11:34,550 S2: lot of other things. So there are people thinking maybe 191 00:11:34,550 --> 00:11:38,230 S2: two rate rises this year would pull you up. Uh, 192 00:11:38,270 --> 00:11:41,910 S2: and then you may not see rate movement for some time. 193 00:11:42,670 --> 00:11:45,430 S1: And how does Australia compare with what's happening with the 194 00:11:45,429 --> 00:11:47,510 S1: rest of the world, like how the UK is tracking 195 00:11:47,510 --> 00:11:51,190 S1: with inflation? Um, I don't even know if you can 196 00:11:51,190 --> 00:11:55,189 S1: compare Australia to the US anymore in terms of those figures. 197 00:11:55,870 --> 00:11:59,710 S2: Yeah. So say in America, their cash rate, they measure it. 198 00:11:59,870 --> 00:12:04,460 S2: It's 3.5 to 3.75%. They have a band. Um, So 199 00:12:04,460 --> 00:12:09,060 S2: we're effectively the same rate as the United States. In Britain, 200 00:12:09,340 --> 00:12:14,500 S2: the economy is in much worse condition and inflation is 201 00:12:14,540 --> 00:12:17,900 S2: is starting to come down. And that's reflecting just how 202 00:12:17,900 --> 00:12:21,380 S2: poorly the British economy is going. The reserve Bank of 203 00:12:21,380 --> 00:12:25,340 S2: Japan is about to lift interest rates, like it'll be 204 00:12:25,340 --> 00:12:28,980 S2: probably US and Japan, uh, who are lifting rates at 205 00:12:28,980 --> 00:12:31,860 S2: the moment? New Zealand has just come out of a 206 00:12:31,900 --> 00:12:35,340 S2: two year recession, but they've still got inflation problems. They're 207 00:12:35,660 --> 00:12:37,820 S2: like they've been cutting interest rates but they may have 208 00:12:37,820 --> 00:12:43,260 S2: to hold back. Canada, for instance, Mark Carney and his 209 00:12:43,300 --> 00:12:45,340 S2: like a former central banker who's the now the prime 210 00:12:45,340 --> 00:12:48,420 S2: minister of Canada, all sorts of problems because of what's 211 00:12:48,420 --> 00:12:52,740 S2: happening in the United States. So their their economy is 212 00:12:52,740 --> 00:12:57,100 S2: really slowing. They've got unemployment around 7%. Interest rates are falling. 213 00:12:57,100 --> 00:13:01,380 S2: They're Europe. They've been able to bring down interest rates 214 00:13:01,420 --> 00:13:05,089 S2: a little bit. But again, what what's going on in 215 00:13:05,090 --> 00:13:09,690 S2: the tariff war with the United States? Makes anything clean 216 00:13:10,010 --> 00:13:11,530 S2: are really difficult to pick up. 217 00:13:11,809 --> 00:13:15,170 S1: Mhm. And just lastly, just a small small final question 218 00:13:15,170 --> 00:13:18,250 S1: for you, Shane. What's all this saying about where the 219 00:13:18,250 --> 00:13:20,890 S1: Australian economy is at right now. Should I be feeling 220 00:13:20,890 --> 00:13:22,890 S1: positive or or not. 221 00:13:23,210 --> 00:13:26,490 S2: You should always be positive Tammy. Should always be. Why 222 00:13:26,490 --> 00:13:30,330 S2: would you want to be negative? Look, the Australian economy 223 00:13:30,530 --> 00:13:34,610 S2: is growing, partly being driven by population growth, which is 224 00:13:34,650 --> 00:13:38,850 S2: a whole other story. But you can see that the 225 00:13:38,850 --> 00:13:42,730 S2: private sector is really starting to pick up the debate 226 00:13:42,730 --> 00:13:47,010 S2: or the discussion over, say, AI and data centres. Australia 227 00:13:47,010 --> 00:13:49,850 S2: has the fifth largest number of data centres in the world, 228 00:13:50,090 --> 00:13:53,010 S2: and the number of being built here would blow your mind. 229 00:13:53,050 --> 00:13:56,010 S2: Like there has been this huge ramp up in private 230 00:13:56,010 --> 00:13:59,449 S2: investment that's going on right at the moment. We can 231 00:13:59,450 --> 00:14:03,770 S2: see consumers. Yes. Our friends in the airline industry managed 232 00:14:03,770 --> 00:14:07,730 S2: to push up prices by 24% on international airfares. They 233 00:14:07,730 --> 00:14:11,210 S2: could only do that if Australians had the money and 234 00:14:11,210 --> 00:14:15,730 S2: wherewithal to go on an overseas trip. So obviously we 235 00:14:15,770 --> 00:14:18,929 S2: know that people have been saving money. The economy is 236 00:14:18,970 --> 00:14:23,330 S2: it's tracking along. I wouldn't say it's a it's a 237 00:14:23,370 --> 00:14:28,170 S2: four lane freeway, more like a, a country road with like, okay, 238 00:14:28,210 --> 00:14:30,290 S2: the lines are marked, so you're not going to run 239 00:14:30,290 --> 00:14:33,330 S2: off into the wild. But it's not the best. But 240 00:14:33,330 --> 00:14:35,130 S2: it's not the worst by any stretch. 241 00:14:35,690 --> 00:14:37,850 S1: Well, thank you so much, Shane, for your time. 242 00:14:38,130 --> 00:14:40,010 S2: It's always a pleasure, Tammy. You have a good one. 243 00:14:54,410 --> 00:14:57,810 S1: And in other news, today, a little known Queensland backbencher 244 00:14:57,810 --> 00:15:01,090 S1: says he will force a National Party leadership spill in 245 00:15:01,090 --> 00:15:04,850 S1: Parliament next week following the dramatic split from the liberals. 246 00:15:05,840 --> 00:15:10,640 S1: and pro-Palestinian activists are already organizing protests ahead of a 247 00:15:10,640 --> 00:15:14,680 S1: visit from Israeli President Isaac Herzog, who plans to meet 248 00:15:14,680 --> 00:15:19,800 S1: politicians and Bondi massacre survivors early next month. You can 249 00:15:19,800 --> 00:15:25,320 S1: read more at theage.com.au or smh.com.au. And while you're there, 250 00:15:25,320 --> 00:15:29,160 S1: consider subscribing to us and save 50% for the first 251 00:15:29,160 --> 00:15:33,280 S1: six months on our premium digital and Essential weekend packages 252 00:15:33,560 --> 00:15:38,080 S1: to unlock award winning journalism, plus subscriber favourites like puzzles, 253 00:15:38,120 --> 00:15:44,240 S1: Good Food and Traveller, T's and C's apply. Today's episode 254 00:15:44,240 --> 00:15:47,800 S1: was produced by Kai Wong with help from Julia Carcasole. 255 00:15:48,200 --> 00:15:52,560 S1: Our podcasts are overseen by Lisa Muxworthy and Tom McKendrick. 256 00:15:53,000 --> 00:15:56,200 S1: If you like our show, follow the Morning Edition and 257 00:15:56,200 --> 00:15:59,520 S1: leave a review for us on Apple or Spotify. Thanks 258 00:15:59,520 --> 00:16:00,280 S1: for listening.