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S1: All right, let's do it. Welcome to the Drop and

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S1: our Succession Recap podcast. I'm Osman Farooqi. I'm here, as usual,

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S1: with Thomas Mitchell and Mel Berry. And we're bringing you

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S1: a special episode of this show ahead of the very

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S1: last EP of succession ever. Thomas and Mel, you guys

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S1: relieved that we're getting to the end. You sad that

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S1: the show and our time on this podcast together is ending?

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S1: How do you feel about things?

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S2: I'm devastated. I feel like I've only just started introducing

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S2: Thomas to the works of Shakespeare. There's a lot more

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S2: to cover, but not enough succession episodes.

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S1: How about you?

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S3: Thomas Yeah, I kind of feel torn. Like I do feel.

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S3: I feel that the show is coming to a natural end,

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S3: but I obviously love doing this podcast and talking about it.

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S3: But yeah, I think it's just been so much succession

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S3: so much of the time. A part of me is

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S3: quite looking forward to Monday. I'm sure there'll be like

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S3: succession withdrawals on Tuesday morning. I'll probably go back to

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S3: the beginning or something, but for now.

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S4: I feel like that.

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S2: Is very specific to you to watch.

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S3: Succession. I'm only talking about myself here, so this is

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S3: why I come on the podcast. The good news is.

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S1: The three of us will still be able to talk

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S1: to each other, maybe even with microphones in front of

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S1: us in the future. Doesn't have to be the end

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S1: of our relationship now.

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S3: This is it for me, man.

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S1: Today in the show, we're going to be talking about

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S1: succession in its entirety across the four seasons will be

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S1: looking at some of its best moments, best characters and

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S1: most iconic scenes, and will also zoom in on Season

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S1: four and talk a bit more about things we haven't

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S1: had a chance to get into. In our weekly episode recaps.

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S1: We'll also be answering some of your questions, wonderful listeners

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S1: that you've been sending in about the show and if

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S1: that's not enough, will be ending the episode with an

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S1: incredible interview that Thomas has done with Jay Smith. Cameron,

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S1: who plays Jerry really excited and looking forward to hearing that.

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S1: Let's start with the discussion about the show itself. It's

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S1: become this cultural phenomenon. We talk about it every week,

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S1: the response we get from listeners and readers of our

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S1: paper when they read your recaps. Thomas When they read interviews,

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S1: when they read other analysis and reviews of the show

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S1: is enormous. It has clearly struck a chord. And the

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S1: question I want to ask you guys is, did you

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S1: expect it when you first watch this show 4 or

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S1: 5 years ago, did you think it would become the

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S1: phenomenon that it has?

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S3: I mean, I think if anyone sat here and was like,

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S3: I definitely predicted succession would become as big as it

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S3: has then, like they're probably, you know, probably should buy

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S3: a lottery ticket. But I think like it was hyped

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S3: hard from the get go and like I was actually

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S3: looking for some reviews this morning like to like some

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S3: kind of pre show reviews and everyone was kind of

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S3: bigging it up. I think it had, you know, like

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S3: all the right elements. And also Jesse Armstrong already had

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S3: like kind of like money in the bank with his

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S3: previous work. So even like there was a 2018 review

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S3: that was like I said, it was going to be

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S3: the buzziest show on TV before it had dropped. I

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S3: think we also spoke to Sarah Snook and like, beat

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S3: it up, you know, So everyone knew it was going

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S3: to be something big, but no one could tell how

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S3: big it was going to become. Also, it was a

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S3: very if it was the timing like obviously we know

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S3: the writing is amazing and the acting, but the timing

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S3: that it like slotted into the landscape was was pretty amazing.

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S3: I think that helped turn it into what it's become.

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S2: Yeah, well, firstly, I can barely remember what I did

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S2: last week, let alone in 2018 when we first watched this.

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S2: But what has surprised me is actually not so much

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S2: the hype that has developed around it, but how it's

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S2: managed to sustain that hype. Because when you look at

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S2: the other shows that came out in 2018, Killing Eve Billions,

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S2: Atlanta Barry, particularly the latter two, which only just finished

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S2: all really good shows, all a lot of kind of

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S2: momentum and hype around them but not quite the same

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S2: as succession. And I think in this kind of content

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S2: fatigue era where there is so much content that it's

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S2: hard for a show to consistently maintain the level of

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S2: excitement around it. So I think that's what surprises me

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S2: most about succession, is that you didn't just have a

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S2: few seasons that everyone was talking about, but it's actually

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S2: built the hype and managed to sustain it for so long.

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S1: Yeah, I also I think Thomas is right. I think

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S1: anyone who says that from the second they watched the

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S1: first episode, they knew it was going to be hit

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S1: is kind of lying because one of the one of

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S1: the weird things about this show is even though it

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S1: is so popular numerically, it kind of does pale in

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S1: comparison to things like Game of Thrones. When you think

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S1: about these shows that people were recapping every week. Even

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S1: I say this all the time. A fraction of the

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S1: people who watch Yellowstone watch this show like you, liberal elites,

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S1: Thomas and Mel, you don't pay attention to good, solid

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S1: salt of the earth, Middle America shows like Yellowstone. But

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S1: that is being watched by like 10 to 15 times

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S1: more people every week than succession. But I think what

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S1: seems to have. Helped propel the conversation around it is

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S1: the people who do watch it and who do love

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S1: it are people like us, who work in the media,

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S1: who work in politics, who work in business. And we

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S1: sort of drive the conversation around these things.

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S3: Yeah, I was going to say, I mean, firstly I

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S3: was like, we really need to decide what I am

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S3: because one day I don't know who Shakespeare is and

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S3: the next day I'm a liberal. So it's very confusing

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S3: for me. No, but I think you are right. Like

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S3: I was going to say something like Atlanta, like I

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S3: reckon anyone who's watched Atlanta would probably listen to this

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S3: and be like that show has definitely sustained its quality.

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S3: It's amazing. But yeah, given that succession plays so easily

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S3: into the hands of the media and like, you know,

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S3: there's so much kind of like self awareness and like

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S3: celebrating of people picking apart our industry, It really has

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S3: got a leg up, I guess, in keeping that momentum

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S3: and keeping it like in the news cycle and people

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S3: wanting to talk about it and read about it because,

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S3: you know, we're all self-obsessed, really.

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S1: Yeah. I think the other interesting thing about the show

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S1: and why I think it did take a little while

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S1: to build, I think even though people from the first step,

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S1: the reviews were good and people knew that it was

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S1: a good show. But it takes so much more for

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S1: a show to be critically well received and then to

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S1: turn into this big cultural moment. I think why it

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S1: took a little while is because even though people in

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S1: the know kind of knew Jesse's work on The Thick

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S1: of It and on Peep Show and some of his

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S1: writing on Veep, but he's not really a household name.

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S1: And the cast of this show, they've become household names

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S1: over the past 5 or 6 years. But I mean,

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S1: Brian Cox was probably the most well known in the

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S1: show when it aired. And even he is hardly like a,

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S1: you know, a household name, really at that time. I

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S1: think this show earnt its way into our hearts, into

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S1: the conversation because it was so consistently good and impressive.

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S1: And I think goes to your point, Mel, like it

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S1: had to be good for a number of years and

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S1: to keep doing something new and to keep being part

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S1: of the cultural conversation like it was so good at

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S1: reflecting what had just happened in the world back to us.

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S1: And it's so funny to think back to 2018 one hand.

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S1: That wasn't that long ago, but that was like two

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S1: years into the Trump presidency. That does feel like a

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S1: lifetime ago. And I think that context is partly what

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S1: helped it land with liberal coastal elites like ourselves, because

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S1: we were looking for something that looked at Trump and

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S1: Trump's America from this kind of perspective. Does that make sense?

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S2: It does. And I have to say, when talking about

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S2: whether we knew it would be a success when we

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S2: first watched it, when you go back and look at

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S2: the pilot in 2018, it's not the most immediately accessible show.

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S2: It's really laden with setting up the business and the family.

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S2: And it doesn't it's not a show that kind of

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S2: carries you along. Your thrown right into it from the start,

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S2: and there's a lot of trying to piece together who

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S2: everyone is, what their relationship is, what the businesses are

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S2: and how they all interact. And I can see how

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S2: maybe from the first episode people wouldn't have been immediately gripped.

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S2: I think it's a show that has built on that

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S2: to become better and better.

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S3: Yeah, for sure. If you're an impatient viewer, you could

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S3: easily fall off succession because like so many people have said, Oh,

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S3: like I just can't get into it. Like, you can't,

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S3: you need to give it like three episodes once everyone

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S3: like and once it all kind of clicks in your

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S3: head and then it really like hooks you in. But yeah,

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S3: it's a show that doesn't make it easy. How do you.

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S1: Think season four is going in comparison to the rest

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S1: of the show? Is it at its best, Does it

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S1: feel like it's maybe slipped from earlier seasons when it

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S1: was a bit fresh? Mel, how do you feel about

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S1: this final season of succession?

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S2: I think it's definitely at its best, particularly post Logan's death.

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S2: The first two episodes, I was a bit worried. I thought,

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S2: are we seeing, you know, succession doing the same thing

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S2: that it's done in previous seasons? But from episode two onwards,

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S2: I think it's been by far the most ambitious it

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S2: has been over its lifetime. And I think we keep

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S2: talking and making jokes about everyone having their Emmy moment,

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S2: but I think that's because the show is allowing these

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S2: characters to perform in ways that they haven't previously. And

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S2: even just structurally, I think it's way more inventive. The

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S2: funeral scene allowing those long emotional eulogies, that powerful scene

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S2: with the Swede on the on the mountaintops. I just

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S2: think it's become more interesting and more innovative as a show. So, yeah,

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S2: I would definitely say this is the best season. What do.

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S1: You think?

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S3: Thomas Yeah, yeah. No, I think it's definitely not the

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S3: best season, but it's like not a bad season. I

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S3: think it's definitely it's like a victim of its own,

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S3: like circumstance. Being the last season of a show like

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S3: Succession makes it almost impossible for it to be the

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S3: best season of the show, if that makes sense. Like

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S3: for me, season two and season three is like peak

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S3: succession and what I get like the most enjoyment from

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S3: the show that was most obvious in season two and

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S3: season three, I think because they've had this pressure of

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S3: like having to wrap up the show and there's all

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S3: these like loose ends and stuff. It just it's become

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S3: a slightly different show. And I remember thinking like at

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S3: the end of season three, I was like, God, this

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S3: show is so fucking good. But it probably like you

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S3: can't really get much more than one more season out

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S3: of this because the very nature of like what the

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S3: show is about this succession plan and the family. And

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S3: there's only so much kind of ground to cover. And

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S3: I did kind of feel, yeah, okay, Season four should

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S3: be the last. Obviously, Jesse Armstrong, he and I are

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S3: very similar wavelength. He made the same call. And yeah,

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S3: so I think it's been a great season, but it

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S3: was maybe never going to live up to what we

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S3: fell in love with succession for because there was just

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S3: so much to do.

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S1: Yeah, I feel a bit mixed about the season, which

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S1: is weird to say because it is on one hand

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S1: so good. Like it is the best television on air

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S1: right now. Like I have no doubt about that. I

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S1: feel really confident in saying that about the season of

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S1: the show. But I do think one thing that's become

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S1: more obvious to me as this season's gone on is

226
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S1: Jesse Armstrong made a decision late in the piece to

227
00:10:33,010 --> 00:10:35,650
S1: make this the final season. I don't think when they

228
00:10:35,650 --> 00:10:39,640
S1: were writing and filming Season three, they knew that they

229
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S1: were going to wrap up all these storylines in just

230
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S1: ten more episodes.

231
00:10:42,970 --> 00:10:43,870
S3: I agree completely.

232
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S1: And I think that's been to the detriment of the show.

233
00:10:46,870 --> 00:10:49,569
S1: I think there are too many balls in the air.

234
00:10:49,570 --> 00:10:53,500
S1: There are too many plotlines, too many characters that they

235
00:10:53,500 --> 00:10:55,990
S1: feel like they have to tie up in this season.

236
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S1: And I think they've just leant a little bit too

237
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S1: hard into trying to just give enough people enough of

238
00:11:01,900 --> 00:11:03,700
S1: a presence in the show. So we feel like we've

239
00:11:03,700 --> 00:11:05,740
S1: ticked that box and we've checked off what's happening with

240
00:11:05,740 --> 00:11:08,770
S1: that plot line and things that seem to be going

241
00:11:08,770 --> 00:11:13,180
S1: somewhere really interesting and really special in Seasons two and three.

242
00:11:13,179 --> 00:11:16,480
S1: Feel like they haven'trillioneally landed the plane on them in

243
00:11:16,480 --> 00:11:17,200
S1: this season.

244
00:11:17,410 --> 00:11:18,640
S3: And that's the thing. If you look back at the

245
00:11:18,640 --> 00:11:20,260
S3: history of the show, like in terms of the actual

246
00:11:20,260 --> 00:11:22,840
S3: like the deal's done and like what happens plot wise,

247
00:11:22,840 --> 00:11:25,150
S3: like not a great deal happens in seasons one, two

248
00:11:25,150 --> 00:11:27,520
S3: and three. Like it's like two major, like kind of

249
00:11:27,520 --> 00:11:29,620
S3: a stories. And then there's these great kind of like

250
00:11:29,620 --> 00:11:31,660
S3: B stories, but it's all like the plot is almost

251
00:11:31,660 --> 00:11:33,730
S3: sparse and you get everything around it that makes it

252
00:11:33,730 --> 00:11:37,150
S3: so amazing. Whereas Season four has been like, there's so

253
00:11:37,150 --> 00:11:39,130
S3: succession is a hard show to keep up with anyway,

254
00:11:39,130 --> 00:11:42,850
S3: But like this season, particularly, people like seem confused. I

255
00:11:42,850 --> 00:11:45,609
S3: think so, yeah. I think. I think. I think you're right.

256
00:11:45,610 --> 00:11:47,980
S3: I think the decision to make it the last season

257
00:11:47,980 --> 00:11:51,220
S3: while right in terms of you know maybe milking it

258
00:11:51,220 --> 00:11:53,740
S3: would have ruined it. I think it's created this like

259
00:11:53,740 --> 00:11:56,080
S3: bottleneck of like got to wrap everything up really quickly.

260
00:11:56,500 --> 00:11:58,660
S2: I do wonder sometimes when we look at our when

261
00:11:58,660 --> 00:12:00,100
S2: we look back at the podcast and there are all

262
00:12:00,100 --> 00:12:01,839
S2: these things where we're like, Oh, I wonder if this

263
00:12:01,840 --> 00:12:04,380
S2: will develop into something, particularly in our predictions, you know,

264
00:12:04,390 --> 00:12:07,089
S2: will Carey come back or will this become a will

265
00:12:07,090 --> 00:12:09,910
S2: the living plus moment become a really big deal? I

266
00:12:09,910 --> 00:12:12,580
S2: wonder if it's that kind of thing of what if

267
00:12:12,580 --> 00:12:14,860
S2: you put a if you put a gun in a story,

268
00:12:14,860 --> 00:12:16,510
S2: you have to use it later. And I kind of

269
00:12:16,510 --> 00:12:23,960
S2: wonder if it's called Chekhov's Gun. Mel Yeah, it is. I,

270
00:12:24,190 --> 00:12:26,650
S2: I was trying to like, I'm trying to tone down my,

271
00:12:27,670 --> 00:12:32,150
S2: my perceived elitism. No, Yeah. I kind of wonder if

272
00:12:32,290 --> 00:12:36,010
S2: that's a TV writing technique as well, that they're putting

273
00:12:36,010 --> 00:12:38,350
S2: a lot of guns everywhere in case they want to

274
00:12:38,350 --> 00:12:40,900
S2: pick it up at some point. Yeah, totally. Later on

275
00:12:40,900 --> 00:12:41,470
S2: in the show.

276
00:12:41,470 --> 00:12:44,380
S1: I think there's also a challenge for people like us

277
00:12:44,380 --> 00:12:48,130
S1: not to get too meta and insular here, but when

278
00:12:48,130 --> 00:12:50,310
S1: you watch every episode of this show like 2 or

279
00:12:50,309 --> 00:12:53,740
S1: 3 times, when you talk about it, as we do

280
00:12:53,740 --> 00:12:56,109
S1: for an hour every week plus with all of our friends,

281
00:12:56,110 --> 00:12:59,140
S1: with our colleagues, when you write recaps, when you edit

282
00:12:59,140 --> 00:13:04,000
S1: those recaps, you have thought about every tiny little detail

283
00:13:04,000 --> 00:13:06,939
S1: in every single episode. And it is one of the like,

284
00:13:06,940 --> 00:13:09,340
S1: I'm not really complaining because I love my job and

285
00:13:09,340 --> 00:13:11,680
S1: I think we're very lucky to get paid to think

286
00:13:11,679 --> 00:13:14,260
S1: about TV shows like Succession and how they explain the

287
00:13:14,260 --> 00:13:16,720
S1: world to us. But there is something about viewing something

288
00:13:16,720 --> 00:13:19,390
S1: through a critic's lens and something that is so rich

289
00:13:19,390 --> 00:13:23,800
S1: and dense like this show that you sometimes you do

290
00:13:23,800 --> 00:13:26,620
S1: pined for the opportunity to just watch it, let it

291
00:13:26,620 --> 00:13:28,630
S1: wash over you, and then move on with your life.

292
00:13:28,630 --> 00:13:31,000
S1: And I think I think maybe I've been a bit

293
00:13:31,000 --> 00:13:35,079
S1: victim to taking the show a bit too seriously this

294
00:13:35,080 --> 00:13:37,420
S1: season and not being able to have as much fun

295
00:13:37,420 --> 00:13:39,370
S1: with it in a way. But like I said, don't

296
00:13:39,370 --> 00:13:41,380
S1: feel sympathy for us. We're fine. We're doing great.

297
00:13:42,210 --> 00:13:44,310
S2: As you've been so much fun. We've all had so

298
00:13:44,309 --> 00:13:45,929
S2: much fun. Very fun guy.

299
00:13:46,679 --> 00:13:46,960
S4: Thank you.

300
00:13:49,200 --> 00:13:52,589
S1: Okay. So on the podcast this year, we've been discussing

301
00:13:52,590 --> 00:13:55,650
S1: our favorite lines and our favorite character moments every episode

302
00:13:55,650 --> 00:13:57,990
S1: from this season. But I think this is a good

303
00:13:57,990 --> 00:14:00,900
S1: opportunity to zoom out a bit more and maybe talk

304
00:14:00,900 --> 00:14:05,610
S1: about the show and our favorite moments and scenes more generally.

305
00:14:06,309 --> 00:14:09,670
S1: I might go first. Mine is like a bit of

306
00:14:09,670 --> 00:14:12,010
S1: a cheat, which I often do on this show with

307
00:14:12,010 --> 00:14:15,370
S1: these sorts of segments. I'm just going to say the

308
00:14:15,370 --> 00:14:19,300
S1: finale Episode ten of Season two, I think is my

309
00:14:19,300 --> 00:14:21,820
S1: favorite episode of succession and maybe one of my favorite

310
00:14:21,820 --> 00:14:25,630
S1: episodes on television because it felt like the show was

311
00:14:25,630 --> 00:14:28,930
S1: at its absolute peak. Like we knew the characters. We

312
00:14:28,930 --> 00:14:31,990
S1: had a great story that was going somewhere, and this

313
00:14:31,990 --> 00:14:34,270
S1: is the episode, if you don't remember it opens with

314
00:14:34,840 --> 00:14:37,180
S1: you reminded me, Mel, I didn't even realize that Greg

315
00:14:37,180 --> 00:14:40,150
S1: in Congress was in this episode. To me, this episode

316
00:14:40,150 --> 00:14:42,970
S1: is basically just all set on a yacht and they

317
00:14:42,970 --> 00:14:45,400
S1: are debating and deciding the future of the company. And

318
00:14:45,400 --> 00:14:50,170
S1: it ends with the amazing cliffhanger of Kendall exposing the

319
00:14:50,170 --> 00:14:54,280
S1: secrets that that Logan had covered up about the heinous crimes.

320
00:14:54,280 --> 00:14:58,030
S1: Waystar was responsible for that show, that setting of these

321
00:14:58,030 --> 00:15:01,300
S1: characters just going for it on this boat in that

322
00:15:01,300 --> 00:15:06,130
S1: luxury setting, having fun, being brutal, being cutting it was

323
00:15:06,130 --> 00:15:08,770
S1: just one of the most amazing things I've ever seen

324
00:15:08,770 --> 00:15:10,690
S1: on television. And it's the episode I go back to

325
00:15:10,690 --> 00:15:14,950
S1: watch the most as well. I just think that is

326
00:15:14,950 --> 00:15:17,410
S1: something that I will always return to years after the

327
00:15:17,410 --> 00:15:18,970
S1: show is over and I'm thinking about what I want

328
00:15:18,970 --> 00:15:22,150
S1: to watch. I'll probably do season two again and I'll

329
00:15:22,150 --> 00:15:24,460
S1: always go to that episode.

330
00:15:24,880 --> 00:15:27,490
S2: Yeah, I completely agree. And there are so many good

331
00:15:27,490 --> 00:15:31,780
S2: individual moments within that episode. Like you mentioned, it starts

332
00:15:31,780 --> 00:15:36,489
S2: actually with Greg appearing at the Congressional hearing into Waystar,

333
00:15:36,490 --> 00:15:40,030
S2: into the cruise line scandal, and one of my greatest

334
00:15:40,030 --> 00:15:41,920
S2: Greg isms of all time. And I feel like I

335
00:15:41,920 --> 00:15:44,470
S2: say this line at least once a day is when

336
00:15:44,620 --> 00:15:48,160
S2: Senator Gil, he says to Greg, Can you confirm your identity?

337
00:15:48,160 --> 00:15:52,900
S2: You're executive assistant to Tom Scan. And Greg replies, Yes.

338
00:15:52,900 --> 00:15:54,580
S2: If it is to be said, if it is to

339
00:15:54,580 --> 00:15:56,020
S2: be said so it is.

340
00:15:56,020 --> 00:15:57,970
S4: And it's such.

341
00:15:58,390 --> 00:16:00,340
S2: A it's such a good moment. And they're like, You

342
00:16:00,340 --> 00:16:02,770
S2: can speak to us normally. And he says, So I shall.

343
00:16:02,770 --> 00:16:06,460
S2: And I just it's such a great moment for Greg.

344
00:16:06,580 --> 00:16:08,740
S2: And the other moment I really love from that episode

345
00:16:08,740 --> 00:16:12,490
S2: is when Tom eats Logan Roy's Chicken. It's when Tom

346
00:16:12,490 --> 00:16:14,500
S2: thinks he's about to take the fall for the cruise

347
00:16:14,500 --> 00:16:18,340
S2: line scandal. His relationship with Shiv is falling apart and

348
00:16:18,340 --> 00:16:22,180
S2: he sits down with Logan in ages, reaches across, grabs

349
00:16:22,180 --> 00:16:24,850
S2: the chicken like eats it and is. Thank you, Logan.

350
00:16:24,850 --> 00:16:27,370
S2: Thank you for the chicken. And I think Logan is like,

351
00:16:27,370 --> 00:16:29,440
S2: what the fuck? It's so good.

352
00:16:29,710 --> 00:16:31,450
S1: A good reminder of the entire plot where Tom thought

353
00:16:31,450 --> 00:16:32,180
S1: he was going to jail.

354
00:16:32,230 --> 00:16:33,940
S3: I loved that he had. He had like a prison.

355
00:16:33,940 --> 00:16:35,740
S3: He had a prison consultant that was like coaching him

356
00:16:35,740 --> 00:16:36,400
S3: before he went in.

357
00:16:36,520 --> 00:16:38,500
S2: He was talking about how to make wine out of

358
00:16:38,500 --> 00:16:39,630
S2: the toilet. Right.

359
00:16:40,180 --> 00:16:42,220
S1: Thomas, what about you? What stands out for you over

360
00:16:42,220 --> 00:16:42,940
S1: the history of this show?

361
00:16:43,660 --> 00:16:46,090
S3: Yeah, I mean, you both chose two great moments, so

362
00:16:46,090 --> 00:16:49,420
S3: kudos to you, my friends especially. I just was thinking about, like,

363
00:16:49,420 --> 00:16:52,060
S3: the Nicholas Braun one, like Cousin Greg. He obviously came

364
00:16:52,060 --> 00:16:53,410
S3: out here earlier in the year and I spoke to

365
00:16:53,410 --> 00:16:55,330
S3: him and he was talking to me about like the

366
00:16:55,330 --> 00:16:58,930
S3: night before he shot the Congress scenes. He basically stayed

367
00:16:58,930 --> 00:17:02,050
S3: up all night and watched Mark Zuckerberg's congressional hearings because

368
00:17:02,050 --> 00:17:04,030
S3: he was like he wanted to get that like, nervous energy.

369
00:17:04,030 --> 00:17:06,159
S3: And he was saying that like there's this one moment

370
00:17:06,160 --> 00:17:09,670
S3: where Mark Zuckerberg walks in and he looks so nervous

371
00:17:09,670 --> 00:17:12,520
S3: and so he, like he sits down, the first thing

372
00:17:12,520 --> 00:17:14,500
S3: he does is like, take a bottle of water that's

373
00:17:14,500 --> 00:17:17,170
S3: on the table and like just down the entire thing.

374
00:17:17,170 --> 00:17:18,730
S3: And he was like basically he thought like, that was

375
00:17:18,730 --> 00:17:20,650
S3: the only thing he could control was like the water.

376
00:17:20,650 --> 00:17:22,870
S3: And so he just like panic drinks this entire skulls,

377
00:17:22,869 --> 00:17:24,730
S3: this bottle of water. So he said they shot that.

378
00:17:24,730 --> 00:17:26,590
S3: I don't know if it ends up making the final cut,

379
00:17:26,590 --> 00:17:28,600
S3: but he shot that for Greg. And yeah, I just

380
00:17:28,600 --> 00:17:30,790
S3: thought that was really funny and obviously a great scene.

381
00:17:31,150 --> 00:17:33,669
S3: So my favorite moment, which sums up succession I guess

382
00:17:33,670 --> 00:17:36,190
S3: the most for me and it's a classic succession moment,

383
00:17:36,190 --> 00:17:38,830
S3: is boar on the floor. So that's in the season

384
00:17:38,830 --> 00:17:43,270
S3: two Episode three Hunting. I mean, boar on the floor. Like,

385
00:17:43,270 --> 00:17:45,340
S3: I don't know if I mean, I know your long

386
00:17:45,340 --> 00:17:46,870
S3: term memory is bad, but I don't know if either

387
00:17:46,869 --> 00:17:48,400
S3: of you remember watching this, but it's one of those

388
00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:51,730
S3: moments where it's like, What the fuck is this show

389
00:17:51,730 --> 00:17:54,670
S3: doing to these people? Like it was just such a

390
00:17:54,670 --> 00:17:58,660
S3: crazy scene. Like essentially Logan suspects they're on like another

391
00:17:58,660 --> 00:18:01,150
S3: one of their kind of like Roy family weird getaways

392
00:18:01,150 --> 00:18:03,879
S3: where they're like, shooting, I don't know, game and whatever

393
00:18:03,880 --> 00:18:06,730
S3: they do, this may surprise you, but it's it's meant

394
00:18:06,730 --> 00:18:09,010
S3: to be hungry that they're in, but they're actually shooting

395
00:18:09,010 --> 00:18:09,760
S3: in Long Island.

396
00:18:09,760 --> 00:18:11,290
S2: Is that a location based.

397
00:18:11,290 --> 00:18:12,190
S4: It is, yeah.

398
00:18:12,490 --> 00:18:15,520
S3: But yeah basically like the storyline is that there's, there's

399
00:18:15,520 --> 00:18:17,770
S3: like a biography coming out about Logan and they he

400
00:18:17,770 --> 00:18:19,419
S3: thinks there's like a mole in the company and someone's

401
00:18:19,420 --> 00:18:23,020
S3: leaking information and so he he basically like it feels

402
00:18:23,020 --> 00:18:24,609
S3: like he makes it up but you're meant to believe

403
00:18:24,609 --> 00:18:27,460
S3: that this is a game they play regularly boar on

404
00:18:27,460 --> 00:18:30,010
S3: the floor and they all start chanting it. And basically

405
00:18:30,010 --> 00:18:33,190
S3: he gets Greg, Tom and Carl to get on their

406
00:18:33,190 --> 00:18:35,860
S3: knees in front of this, like roaring fire. The entire

407
00:18:35,859 --> 00:18:39,040
S3: family is like crowded around and then whoever is the

408
00:18:39,040 --> 00:18:41,410
S3: last person to eat a sausage off the floor using

409
00:18:41,410 --> 00:18:44,410
S3: only their mouth is the mole. Like, it's fucking insane.

410
00:18:44,410 --> 00:18:46,869
S3: It's amazing. And Tom and Tom at first is a

411
00:18:46,869 --> 00:18:49,390
S3: bit like Logan. Like, this is insane. But as soon as, like,

412
00:18:49,390 --> 00:18:51,970
S3: the sausages get thrown, they're just like, in it. In it.

413
00:18:51,970 --> 00:18:54,970
S3: And like, the commentary during that. Frank, feed the piggies,

414
00:18:54,970 --> 00:18:57,880
S3: oink for your sausages. Pigs crawl in a circle and

415
00:18:57,880 --> 00:19:01,780
S3: close your eyes like it's just so dehumanizing. It shows

416
00:19:01,780 --> 00:19:04,720
S3: the level of distrust in this family. It's just like.

417
00:19:04,720 --> 00:19:07,340
S3: It's crazy. Worthy to watch, but it's amazing. I watched

418
00:19:07,340 --> 00:19:09,440
S3: it back this morning and it still hits the same way.

419
00:19:09,500 --> 00:19:09,830
S3: I feel.

420
00:19:09,830 --> 00:19:12,500
S1: Like when you spoke to David Rashi, who played Carl,

421
00:19:12,500 --> 00:19:14,960
S1: he talked about like this was a pretty like a

422
00:19:14,960 --> 00:19:15,739
S1: highlight for him to.

423
00:19:15,740 --> 00:19:18,350
S3: Film. Yeah, yeah. Like a highlight in a lowlight. It's

424
00:19:18,350 --> 00:19:20,359
S3: his favorite scene, but he's like, still can't bring himself

425
00:19:20,359 --> 00:19:22,159
S3: to watch it back, I think, because it's still like

426
00:19:22,340 --> 00:19:23,210
S3: a bit triggering.

427
00:19:23,210 --> 00:19:25,250
S2: Yeah, that's the thing. It's so dark, isn't it? Because

428
00:19:25,369 --> 00:19:27,770
S2: it is funny on one level, but then also it's

429
00:19:27,770 --> 00:19:31,070
S2: quite horrifying. It's this kind of Lord of the Flies

430
00:19:31,070 --> 00:19:35,540
S2: moment of anarchy and there's no no order or the

431
00:19:35,540 --> 00:19:38,750
S2: order that does exist is so corrupted and perverted. And

432
00:19:38,750 --> 00:19:39,050
S2: it very.

433
00:19:39,050 --> 00:19:40,609
S3: Much took on a life of its own, like after

434
00:19:40,609 --> 00:19:42,379
S3: the episode. And I just like I was Googling it

435
00:19:42,380 --> 00:19:43,790
S3: this morning, I saw there was an article online. It

436
00:19:43,790 --> 00:19:45,109
S3: was like how to play ball on the floor with

437
00:19:45,109 --> 00:19:46,250
S3: your pathetic friends.

438
00:19:46,730 --> 00:19:49,760
S2: Is that the same episode that there's a raccoon like

439
00:19:49,760 --> 00:19:52,189
S2: stuck in the chimney? Do you remember? They go away

440
00:19:52,190 --> 00:19:55,399
S2: somewhere and there's like a raccoon that's died in the

441
00:19:55,400 --> 00:19:58,159
S2: chimney and it's through the whole episode. Oh, they can

442
00:19:58,160 --> 00:20:01,250
S2: smell just. They can just smell this, like rotting corpse

443
00:20:01,250 --> 00:20:02,090
S2: in the house.

444
00:20:02,090 --> 00:20:05,540
S1: It does feel like. Yeah, the show was pretty. We

445
00:20:05,540 --> 00:20:08,150
S1: talk about how dark it's getting now, but those those

446
00:20:08,150 --> 00:20:13,040
S1: little moments remind us how absolutely viscerally intense this show

447
00:20:13,040 --> 00:20:14,990
S1: has been for a very, very long time.

448
00:20:14,990 --> 00:20:18,020
S2: And one of animal based moment that maybe we should

449
00:20:18,020 --> 00:20:23,300
S2: discuss now we're on the theme is Kendall's Daughter's Rabbit.

450
00:20:23,300 --> 00:20:27,200
S2: Do you remember how Kendall buys the daughter a rabbit

451
00:20:27,200 --> 00:20:30,680
S2: because he's never around? And then they feed the rabbit

452
00:20:30,680 --> 00:20:33,740
S2: a bagel and it gets really unwell?

453
00:20:34,220 --> 00:20:35,750
S4: Yes, that's right.

454
00:20:36,560 --> 00:20:39,050
S2: He's like, at the shareholder meeting in the nanny's like,

455
00:20:39,050 --> 00:20:40,730
S2: Can I feed at the bagel? And I was like, Yeah,

456
00:20:40,730 --> 00:20:43,790
S2: just feed it the bagel. And lo behold, lo and behold,

457
00:20:43,790 --> 00:20:45,020
S2: rabbits and bagels.

458
00:20:45,560 --> 00:20:47,390
S1: All right. We've been talking about the moments that we

459
00:20:47,390 --> 00:20:50,869
S1: did like, but what about some parts of this show

460
00:20:50,869 --> 00:20:56,030
S1: that we think maybe went a little bit rogue things, storylines, characters,

461
00:20:56,030 --> 00:21:01,130
S1: plots that maybe didn't hit the mark? Thomas Any that

462
00:21:01,130 --> 00:21:01,700
S1: sent out for you?

463
00:21:01,850 --> 00:21:05,000
S3: There are a couple of weird things. Thinking back, I

464
00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:07,920
S3: always found it weird when they had that. Like I

465
00:21:07,970 --> 00:21:10,340
S3: remember in the season three episode Chianti Shy when they're

466
00:21:10,340 --> 00:21:14,989
S3: in Italy and Kendall basically is reached the point where

467
00:21:14,990 --> 00:21:16,790
S3: he's ready to cash out. He asked Logan for like

468
00:21:16,790 --> 00:21:20,240
S3: 2 billion and he's like, he literally says, I'll never

469
00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:22,669
S3: speak to you again. I won't even speak at your funeral. Like,

470
00:21:22,670 --> 00:21:25,820
S3: look how that turned out. But yeah, and essentially he

471
00:21:25,820 --> 00:21:27,560
S3: goes to like, have this kind of sit down dinner

472
00:21:27,560 --> 00:21:31,220
S3: with him and he invites Logan over and Logan comes

473
00:21:31,220 --> 00:21:34,160
S3: to meet him and he gets served like he serves

474
00:21:34,160 --> 00:21:37,790
S3: in some kind of past or whatever. And essentially, Logan

475
00:21:37,970 --> 00:21:41,090
S3: suspects that Kendall may have poisoned the pasta. And so

476
00:21:41,090 --> 00:21:43,879
S3: he invites Kendall's autistic son to come and try it first.

477
00:21:43,880 --> 00:21:46,220
S3: So it's like so fucked up in so many ways.

478
00:21:46,220 --> 00:21:47,659
S3: I always thought that was weird. That was like the

479
00:21:47,660 --> 00:21:50,479
S3: second poisoning reference. I do remember when Logan sent the

480
00:21:50,480 --> 00:21:53,000
S3: donuts to the kids and they thought maybe they were

481
00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:56,209
S3: poisoned as well. I always thought that was like borderline

482
00:21:56,210 --> 00:21:57,979
S3: a bit weird. And then there was they kind of

483
00:21:57,980 --> 00:22:00,830
S3: briefly tried to tell us that, like, Kendall was into shoplifting.

484
00:22:00,830 --> 00:22:04,189
S3: He stole some batteries in an episode. Like, I don't know,

485
00:22:04,190 --> 00:22:05,420
S3: there were just a couple of things. I was like,

486
00:22:05,750 --> 00:22:06,530
S3: Maybe not.

487
00:22:06,530 --> 00:22:09,020
S1: I mean, you mentioned Kendall's son. We haven't seen a

488
00:22:09,020 --> 00:22:12,620
S1: lot of him in the last season or two. We

489
00:22:12,619 --> 00:22:13,939
S1: have not really had a chance to talk about the

490
00:22:13,940 --> 00:22:17,150
S1: fact that his son is named Iverson, which is like

491
00:22:17,150 --> 00:22:22,130
S1: quite obviously a reference to the black basketball player Allen Iverson,

492
00:22:22,130 --> 00:22:25,880
S1: which is such a funny part of Kendall's character that

493
00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:28,740
S1: I don't think we've we've spent enough time interrogating. It's

494
00:22:28,760 --> 00:22:29,060
S1: really I.

495
00:22:29,060 --> 00:22:31,610
S2: Feel like it fits into his whole streetwear thing and like,

496
00:22:31,609 --> 00:22:33,710
S2: he's obsessed with his sneaks and doesn't want to get

497
00:22:33,710 --> 00:22:34,300
S2: dirt on them. And.

498
00:22:34,330 --> 00:22:37,040
S1: Exactly. I love straight culture. I love hip hop. And

499
00:22:37,040 --> 00:22:39,139
S1: I naming my son after a black player for the

500
00:22:39,140 --> 00:22:40,940
S1: Philadelphia 70 Sixers.

501
00:22:40,940 --> 00:22:42,500
S3: But it's so funny because like, you know, so many

502
00:22:42,500 --> 00:22:44,510
S3: people are into that stuff, but like, only someone of

503
00:22:44,510 --> 00:22:49,129
S3: Kendall's like, lameness would actually name their child. Iverson It's

504
00:22:49,130 --> 00:22:50,629
S3: so funny. Like, I don't know if either of you

505
00:22:50,630 --> 00:22:52,460
S3: guys is a show kind of like begins to wrap up.

506
00:22:52,460 --> 00:22:54,110
S3: And I think you maybe did like I've gone back

507
00:22:54,109 --> 00:22:55,490
S3: and watched episode one.

508
00:22:55,670 --> 00:22:57,560
S1: It feels like a different show in some ways.

509
00:22:57,560 --> 00:23:00,500
S3: Oh, my God. And Kendall specifically, I think has changed

510
00:23:00,500 --> 00:23:03,229
S3: the most in the Four Seasons. The way he talks

511
00:23:03,230 --> 00:23:06,380
S3: has changed. Like in the first episode, he's so much

512
00:23:06,380 --> 00:23:09,470
S3: more like his voice is higher. He talks a bit

513
00:23:09,470 --> 00:23:12,830
S3: like quicker. His his whole vibe has changed. And I

514
00:23:12,830 --> 00:23:15,409
S3: just love the opening shot. Is him listening to the

515
00:23:15,410 --> 00:23:17,960
S3: Beastie Boys like Open Letter to NYC and he's listening

516
00:23:17,960 --> 00:23:19,490
S3: to it in the headphones and you can hear the audio.

517
00:23:19,490 --> 00:23:22,280
S3: It sounds amazing. He looks like like the coolest guy ever.

518
00:23:22,280 --> 00:23:24,740
S3: And then it cuts back. Like you're kind of looking

519
00:23:24,740 --> 00:23:27,109
S3: at the driver and you can hear just Kendall singing

520
00:23:27,109 --> 00:23:29,270
S3: to himself and he looks so lame. You're like, okay,

521
00:23:29,270 --> 00:23:30,590
S3: this is who we're actually dealing with.

522
00:23:30,680 --> 00:23:32,419
S1: Mel, what about you? Yeah, What do you think of

523
00:23:32,420 --> 00:23:36,320
S1: the the moments or the missed opportunities perhaps that this

524
00:23:36,320 --> 00:23:37,700
S1: show has taken?

525
00:23:37,910 --> 00:23:41,540
S2: Yeah, one of the missed opportunities I thought was not

526
00:23:41,540 --> 00:23:44,000
S2: taking enough advantage of Adrien Brody. And maybe he had

527
00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:46,129
S2: a busy schedule. And I still kind of I'm holding

528
00:23:46,130 --> 00:23:47,989
S2: out a deep hope that he might come back in

529
00:23:47,990 --> 00:23:50,720
S2: the final episode. He does own 4% of the company.

530
00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:53,000
S2: You know, he's a big shareholder. But I loved in

531
00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:57,199
S2: season three, in episode four, when it was waystar up

532
00:23:57,200 --> 00:23:59,960
S2: against Sandy and Stewie trying to do their hostile takeover.

533
00:23:59,960 --> 00:24:03,050
S2: And they go to Adrien's, who is playing this billionaire,

534
00:24:03,050 --> 00:24:06,199
S2: Josh Aronson. They go to his private island residence. And

535
00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:11,030
S2: he's like this hiking, beanie wearing activist investor and he

536
00:24:11,030 --> 00:24:12,920
S2: takes them on a hike and they're not dressed for

537
00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:16,040
S2: the weather. And there's all this tension and it's beautifully shot.

538
00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:18,770
S2: And I really liked his character. And so I thought

539
00:24:18,770 --> 00:24:20,960
S2: if now that we've we've seen what they've done with

540
00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:23,870
S2: people like Stewie and Mattson, I'm kind of like, Oh,

541
00:24:23,900 --> 00:24:26,240
S2: maybe Adrien Brody would have been good to have as

542
00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:27,950
S2: a more recurring character.

543
00:24:28,340 --> 00:24:30,230
S1: Yeah, I think when we had him just kind of

544
00:24:30,230 --> 00:24:32,720
S1: pop in for an episode and a bit when we

545
00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:34,969
S1: saw Skarsgard come in as Mattson, I thought it would

546
00:24:34,970 --> 00:24:37,080
S1: be similar. He would just sort of like, pop in,

547
00:24:37,100 --> 00:24:40,159
S1: pop out. But we got this like, wonderful gift of

548
00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:43,280
S1: having him in basically the entire of Season four. And yeah,

549
00:24:43,280 --> 00:24:45,290
S1: I would have loved to have seen more of Adrien

550
00:24:45,290 --> 00:24:48,260
S1: Brody as well. My thing is also a missed opportunity

551
00:24:48,260 --> 00:24:50,119
S1: in that regard. I think it goes back to what

552
00:24:50,119 --> 00:24:52,670
S1: I was saying about maybe some of the storylines not

553
00:24:52,670 --> 00:24:55,310
S1: being able to play all the way through from seasons

554
00:24:55,310 --> 00:24:58,369
S1: to season three. Naomi Pierce, I thought was a really

555
00:24:58,369 --> 00:25:02,510
S1: interesting character, the kind of like Kendall figure from this

556
00:25:02,510 --> 00:25:07,070
S1: other ostensibly nicer, more left wing progressive family that owns

557
00:25:07,070 --> 00:25:10,700
S1: a media empire. I thought their relationship dynamic was really interesting.

558
00:25:11,030 --> 00:25:13,580
S1: And every time she does pop up, you get to

559
00:25:13,580 --> 00:25:16,609
S1: see Kendall spin out. I think her acting is really good.

560
00:25:16,609 --> 00:25:18,500
S1: She knows how to needle them, and I think we

561
00:25:18,500 --> 00:25:20,480
S1: could have had a lot of fun with the dynamic

562
00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:22,850
S1: between the two of them. I'm not like I don't

563
00:25:22,850 --> 00:25:24,590
S1: think it's like a fatal flaw of the show. I

564
00:25:24,590 --> 00:25:26,869
S1: think this is just like a small thing that I

565
00:25:26,869 --> 00:25:28,400
S1: wish we got to see more of. And I think

566
00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:31,520
S1: it's partly a function of how TV works now. Like

567
00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:34,850
S1: we used to have shows that went on for 2024

568
00:25:34,850 --> 00:25:37,520
S1: episodes of season and you would have so much more

569
00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:40,310
S1: time and space to develop minor characters and you could

570
00:25:40,310 --> 00:25:42,470
S1: even see a world in which there's an entire episode

571
00:25:42,470 --> 00:25:46,100
S1: that revolves around Kendall and Naomi or just Naomi in

572
00:25:46,100 --> 00:25:49,250
S1: her relationship with the Pierces. But now we just stick

573
00:25:49,250 --> 00:25:51,740
S1: with these like very tight 8 to 10 episode seasons.

574
00:25:51,740 --> 00:25:53,720
S1: And I think it's like a it's a sad trade

575
00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:55,640
S1: off I think we make for modern TV.

576
00:25:55,670 --> 00:25:58,370
S2: Do you ever miss Roman's Tabitha? Because I also feel

577
00:25:58,369 --> 00:26:02,150
S2: like she kind of disappeared into the night quietly and

578
00:26:02,150 --> 00:26:02,990
S2: without comment.

579
00:26:03,530 --> 00:26:06,530
S1: Yeah, I mean, that's another thing. From the first episode,

580
00:26:06,650 --> 00:26:09,110
S1: the early part of this season, Roman has an entirely

581
00:26:09,109 --> 00:26:12,830
S1: different sort of family life that I think they realized

582
00:26:12,830 --> 00:26:16,490
S1: was not that interesting. And so let's just erase his like,

583
00:26:16,490 --> 00:26:19,970
S1: wife and kids and move on and sort of throw

584
00:26:19,970 --> 00:26:25,129
S1: different romantic interactions with him in terms of characters that

585
00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:30,020
S1: we haven't talked about a lot this season. The one

586
00:26:30,020 --> 00:26:33,440
S1: that we get asked about the most, Mel, is Willa.

587
00:26:34,380 --> 00:26:39,300
S1: This is your opportunity to wax lyrical. About Wheeler and

588
00:26:39,300 --> 00:26:41,760
S1: what you think about her character and why you seem

589
00:26:41,760 --> 00:26:42,310
S1: to love her.

590
00:26:43,500 --> 00:26:46,470
S2: Thank you. You know, Willow's main girl always has been

591
00:26:46,470 --> 00:26:48,719
S2: only one to give her, I believe, points in the

592
00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:52,470
S2: power ranking. I still believe she should be much higher.

593
00:26:52,470 --> 00:26:54,960
S2: If it wasn't for the disgusting prose here, I think

594
00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:55,679
S2: she would be.

595
00:26:55,710 --> 00:26:57,600
S3: You're pointing the power ranking out all over. You're the

596
00:26:57,600 --> 00:26:59,929
S3: only person to give, like five people points.

597
00:26:59,940 --> 00:27:02,520
S1: Yeah. You really spreading the love mail, which is very nice,

598
00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:05,130
S1: but very annoying for the little graphic that we do

599
00:27:05,130 --> 00:27:07,050
S1: that adds up all the points because there's too many

600
00:27:07,050 --> 00:27:07,560
S1: people on that.

601
00:27:07,630 --> 00:27:08,970
S3: I think the guy last week was like, Is this

602
00:27:08,970 --> 00:27:10,490
S3: a mistake? Is this person supposed to have a point?

603
00:27:10,500 --> 00:27:12,720
S3: I was like, yes. No, it's correct. Unfortunately.

604
00:27:13,410 --> 00:27:18,500
S2: I think you guys just don't understand power. No, Willa,

605
00:27:18,540 --> 00:27:21,419
S2: I think she's had such a good character arc going

606
00:27:21,420 --> 00:27:24,330
S2: along in the background. If you look in the earlier episodes,

607
00:27:24,330 --> 00:27:26,850
S2: they're all making fun of her. She's a cool girl

608
00:27:27,330 --> 00:27:31,350
S2: who is ostensibly making a career in theater. There's this

609
00:27:31,350 --> 00:27:34,080
S2: great interaction with Marcia. I don't know if you remember it,

610
00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:36,750
S2: where Marcia says to her, I knew a woman who

611
00:27:36,750 --> 00:27:39,300
S2: was in your line of work, a prostitute, and she

612
00:27:39,300 --> 00:27:42,390
S2: was killed in Paris. And it's this great moment. They

613
00:27:42,390 --> 00:27:46,260
S2: were so dismissive of Willa. And then she has become actually,

614
00:27:46,260 --> 00:27:49,230
S2: she played a really pivotal role because Connor didn't drop

615
00:27:49,230 --> 00:27:53,310
S2: out of the election, potentially took votes away from Mencken,

616
00:27:53,310 --> 00:27:56,310
S2: which would have stopped ATN being in the situation it

617
00:27:56,310 --> 00:27:59,429
S2: is in with calling the vote early. She was the

618
00:27:59,430 --> 00:28:02,369
S2: one who didn't let him pull out because she didn't

619
00:28:02,369 --> 00:28:04,350
S2: want him to waste all the money he had invested.

620
00:28:04,350 --> 00:28:07,619
S2: And she wasn't happy with the Slovenia posting. So I

621
00:28:07,619 --> 00:28:11,430
S2: think Willis had this very quiet influence in the background.

622
00:28:11,430 --> 00:28:14,130
S2: And I'm like, it's a different kind of power to

623
00:28:14,130 --> 00:28:16,890
S2: what the others have, but it's the power that was

624
00:28:16,890 --> 00:28:20,369
S2: available to her. And she's a pretty stock figure in

625
00:28:20,369 --> 00:28:22,530
S2: TV and books, right? But she used the power that

626
00:28:22,530 --> 00:28:26,610
S2: was available to her to increase her her status. So, yeah,

627
00:28:26,609 --> 00:28:28,680
S2: that's why I think she should top the power rankings.

628
00:28:28,890 --> 00:28:32,280
S1: Yeah. And I've I've said this I think throughout this

629
00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:35,790
S1: season that I think the relationship between Conner and Willa

630
00:28:35,790 --> 00:28:40,020
S1: is the healthiest relationship on the show. Like they seem

631
00:28:40,020 --> 00:28:42,660
S1: to have just figured out the trust between them and

632
00:28:42,660 --> 00:28:45,120
S1: they've accepted that it's transactional and they've just figured out

633
00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:47,610
S1: how to make it work. And they talk to each

634
00:28:47,610 --> 00:28:50,310
S1: other in a healthy way, in a way that is

635
00:28:50,310 --> 00:28:54,240
S1: not seen. It's not replicated between any other character and

636
00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:57,090
S1: their romantic partner on the show. Thomas You actually interviewed

637
00:28:57,090 --> 00:28:59,730
S1: the actress who plays Willa this week. How did that go?

638
00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:01,290
S1: What insight did you glean?

639
00:29:01,410 --> 00:29:04,050
S3: Yeah, it was good. Justine Lupe She was she was

640
00:29:04,050 --> 00:29:07,590
S3: very cool. She was over in Italy, which felt very succession.

641
00:29:07,590 --> 00:29:08,600
S2: Did you catch up with her there?

642
00:29:08,610 --> 00:29:10,530
S1: Yeah, she was in Italy the same time I was.

643
00:29:10,530 --> 00:29:11,940
S1: You didn't mention that at the time.

644
00:29:11,970 --> 00:29:13,170
S3: I was also talking to you and I was like, Oh,

645
00:29:13,170 --> 00:29:14,790
S3: it's way more fun talking to her in Italy.

646
00:29:16,650 --> 00:29:18,390
S2: Did you tell her that you've not given her a

647
00:29:18,390 --> 00:29:20,220
S2: single point on the power rankings?

648
00:29:20,550 --> 00:29:23,650
S3: I did not. I admitted that one. But it was

649
00:29:23,660 --> 00:29:26,300
S3: it was really interesting because, like she talked about, you know,

650
00:29:26,340 --> 00:29:29,280
S3: listening to a lot of Esther Perel in preparation to play.

651
00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:31,560
S3: We learned and we obviously talked about the fact that

652
00:29:31,560 --> 00:29:35,430
S3: their relationship is, you know, I guess essentially the most transactional.

653
00:29:35,430 --> 00:29:38,100
S3: But it's it also is the healthiest. And like if

654
00:29:38,100 --> 00:29:41,310
S3: I had to pick anyone's life from succession to like inhabit,

655
00:29:41,310 --> 00:29:43,380
S3: I'd probably go with Willa because they've got they do

656
00:29:43,380 --> 00:29:46,350
S3: have a pretty healthy like agreement as to what the

657
00:29:46,350 --> 00:29:50,280
S3: situation is. I reckon she's probably got her own stuff

658
00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:54,120
S3: going on. Like, Connor is a really nice guy. They're loaded,

659
00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:56,700
S3: you know, like, it's a it's a nice place to be.

660
00:29:57,030 --> 00:29:57,290
S4: And so.

661
00:29:57,570 --> 00:29:58,920
S2: Breakfast in Dubrovnik.

662
00:29:58,920 --> 00:29:59,340
S4: Exactly.

663
00:29:59,340 --> 00:30:01,830
S3: Breakfast in Dubrovnik. I also thought it was very funny

664
00:30:01,830 --> 00:30:05,040
S3: how in the last episode when kind of Connor makes

665
00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:07,380
S3: a light play to also do a eulogy and it's

666
00:30:07,380 --> 00:30:10,200
S3: clear that Wheeler had like written it. And then when

667
00:30:10,590 --> 00:30:13,260
S3: when she says like this, you know, will be liable

668
00:30:13,260 --> 00:30:14,760
S3: after this or whatever, you can show, she gets like,

669
00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:16,560
S3: really offended. And I think that's like a funny little

670
00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:18,480
S3: true line they've had that like Wheeler is obviously not

671
00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:21,180
S3: a very good writer, even though she considers herself to be,

672
00:30:21,180 --> 00:30:22,560
S3: you know, this like woman of the arts.

673
00:30:22,980 --> 00:30:25,560
S2: Yeah. And actually, she does mention that maybe when when

674
00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:28,050
S2: she's saying why Connor won't drop out of the election race,

675
00:30:28,050 --> 00:30:30,240
S2: she's like, maybe he'll write a book about it one day,

676
00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:32,940
S2: and maybe she means maybe we'll write a book about

677
00:30:32,940 --> 00:30:33,630
S2: it one day.

678
00:30:34,380 --> 00:30:37,590
S1: Thomas What are the other characters you think we should

679
00:30:37,590 --> 00:30:40,050
S1: be talking a little bit more about? Before we wrap

680
00:30:40,050 --> 00:30:41,010
S1: up the show?

681
00:30:41,670 --> 00:30:43,900
S3: I was always a really big fan of Lawrence. Yea,

682
00:30:44,010 --> 00:30:45,810
S3: I think I mentioned him at the very start of

683
00:30:45,810 --> 00:30:48,810
S3: this podcast series. He was played by Rob Yang because like,

684
00:30:48,810 --> 00:30:51,030
S3: you know, if we think back, that whole Volta thing

685
00:30:51,030 --> 00:30:53,610
S3: was a really big storyline. It was a great storyline

686
00:30:53,610 --> 00:30:55,380
S3: and especially now like in the last, you know, kind

687
00:30:55,380 --> 00:30:57,959
S3: of like I guess, month, we've seen the demise of

688
00:30:57,960 --> 00:31:00,450
S3: a lot of these like New Age media companies like

689
00:31:00,450 --> 00:31:02,250
S3: BuzzFeed and Vice and stuff, which is kind of what

690
00:31:02,250 --> 00:31:04,320
S3: Volta was supposed to be. And I just thought he

691
00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:06,660
S3: was really interesting. He's in the first five minutes of

692
00:31:06,660 --> 00:31:10,320
S3: the first episode of the series because he really took

693
00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:12,960
S3: it to Kendall and Logan. He was unafraid of this

694
00:31:12,990 --> 00:31:14,670
S3: and it kind of set, I guess, a lot of

695
00:31:14,670 --> 00:31:16,680
S3: the background noise for what succession would be like this,

696
00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:20,040
S3: you know, Monolith, Legacy media company, trying to figure out

697
00:31:20,190 --> 00:31:23,430
S3: how to exist or take over these new edge companies.

698
00:31:23,430 --> 00:31:24,960
S3: And I just thought he was very funny. He was

699
00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:28,020
S3: really tough. He wasn't scared of Kendall, even though eventually

700
00:31:28,020 --> 00:31:33,510
S3: his company did get completely consumed and broken apart by Waystar.

701
00:31:33,510 --> 00:31:36,840
S3: He was just a very good antagonist for the family

702
00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:37,750
S3: and I would have loved to have seen him. To

703
00:31:37,790 --> 00:31:40,250
S3: stay around longer, I think I predicted. Unsurprisingly, I was

704
00:31:40,250 --> 00:31:42,350
S3: very wrong that he would come back this season and

705
00:31:42,350 --> 00:31:43,920
S3: he hasn't. Although we've got one episode left.

706
00:31:43,940 --> 00:31:45,980
S1: Would you get a reference to Walter Mattson? Sort of

707
00:31:45,980 --> 00:31:48,500
S1: confronts Kendall with it when they're in Norway, which I

708
00:31:48,500 --> 00:31:50,990
S1: thought was a good callback to that storyline. Yeah.

709
00:31:50,990 --> 00:31:53,330
S3: So props to Laurence. I miss you, man.

710
00:31:53,630 --> 00:31:56,630
S1: My favorite character, I think, over my favorite minor character,

711
00:31:56,630 --> 00:31:59,150
S1: I should say, over the course of the show is

712
00:31:59,150 --> 00:32:02,270
S1: is Stewie from the Sandy and Stewie group, the Sandy,

713
00:32:02,270 --> 00:32:05,840
S1: Sandy and Stewie group. I think it's outrageous how little

714
00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:08,330
S1: of him we've seen this season. I do have a

715
00:32:08,330 --> 00:32:11,150
S1: feeling that he will be playing a prominent role in

716
00:32:11,150 --> 00:32:13,700
S1: the finale because he is on the board. But even

717
00:32:13,910 --> 00:32:17,960
S1: I think in episodes 2 or 3, when he popped

718
00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:21,410
S1: up again trying to convince the family to squeeze Mattson

719
00:32:21,410 --> 00:32:23,510
S1: for a bit more money, that was it was so fun.

720
00:32:23,510 --> 00:32:25,790
S1: I think he is a great actor. I think he

721
00:32:25,790 --> 00:32:29,500
S1: has such a confidence. I think kind of like Lawrence Yee,

722
00:32:29,630 --> 00:32:33,260
S1: the Vulture guy. Thomas He is not scared of the

723
00:32:33,260 --> 00:32:37,550
S1: siblings at all, but can also be friendly to them

724
00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:40,880
S1: like we saw when he comforted Kendall. I just think

725
00:32:40,880 --> 00:32:44,150
S1: he's a genuinely fun and warm and interesting presence in

726
00:32:44,150 --> 00:32:46,130
S1: the show, and every time he's on, I'm just like,

727
00:32:46,130 --> 00:32:48,890
S1: Strap in. This is going to be a really good time.

728
00:32:49,040 --> 00:32:51,320
S3: It's funny, we all chose people who are like, good

729
00:32:51,320 --> 00:32:54,140
S3: at not being flustered by the family.

730
00:32:54,260 --> 00:32:56,150
S1: Yeah, I think they're good foils in a way. I

731
00:32:56,150 --> 00:32:59,030
S1: think and I think hearing you guys talk about like

732
00:32:59,030 --> 00:33:03,320
S1: particularly Willa and Lawrence, like there is this show, we've

733
00:33:03,320 --> 00:33:06,830
S1: said it before, the minor cast is so good, like

734
00:33:06,830 --> 00:33:09,200
S1: there is not a weak link like you think about

735
00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:12,380
S1: the character of Jess. And, you know, she pops up

736
00:33:12,380 --> 00:33:14,930
S1: maybe like a couple of lines of dialogue here and there,

737
00:33:14,930 --> 00:33:17,990
S1: but she nails it and it's so it makes the

738
00:33:17,990 --> 00:33:20,960
S1: show and the universe that it's in feels so real.

739
00:33:20,960 --> 00:33:23,660
S1: I think it is one of the understated parts of

740
00:33:23,660 --> 00:33:26,660
S1: why succession is such an enjoyable thing to watch every week.

741
00:33:26,840 --> 00:33:29,450
S2: And I think it's so amazing how they do that

742
00:33:29,450 --> 00:33:31,910
S2: when really when you think about what we know about

743
00:33:31,910 --> 00:33:35,750
S2: the characters is so little in terms of actual details

744
00:33:35,750 --> 00:33:38,000
S2: of their lives, like how they all came to know

745
00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:41,060
S2: each other or where they met or their background. We

746
00:33:41,060 --> 00:33:43,130
S2: don't know any of those details, but what they do

747
00:33:43,130 --> 00:33:47,270
S2: with their small moments of dialogue is tell a whole

748
00:33:47,270 --> 00:33:49,610
S2: lifetime of a story.

749
00:33:50,120 --> 00:33:52,340
S1: Yeah, on that, Mel, let's go to our listener question

750
00:33:52,340 --> 00:33:56,210
S1: segment because we got a question about a character backstory

751
00:33:56,210 --> 00:33:57,770
S1: that I think is really interesting. I've never really thought

752
00:33:57,770 --> 00:34:00,020
S1: about it, but I love this question because it got

753
00:34:00,020 --> 00:34:03,170
S1: my my brain working, creating kind of fan fiction. And

754
00:34:03,170 --> 00:34:07,780
S1: this is a question about how did Tom and Shiv meet.

755
00:34:07,790 --> 00:34:10,820
S1: We know a little bit about the character backstories, but

756
00:34:10,820 --> 00:34:15,830
S1: we don't have the origin story, the serendipitous meeting of

757
00:34:15,830 --> 00:34:20,660
S1: these two long lost star crossed lovers. That's another Shakespeare thing,

758
00:34:20,660 --> 00:34:23,330
S1: just for the record. Thomas Yeah, Shakespeare came up with

759
00:34:23,330 --> 00:34:26,330
S1: star crossed lovers. Mel What do we know about these

760
00:34:26,330 --> 00:34:28,430
S1: guys in their history that gives us some clues as

761
00:34:28,430 --> 00:34:30,799
S1: to how they might have first met and started dating.

762
00:34:31,190 --> 00:34:35,570
S2: So we went down a real Reddit rabbit hole. Yeah.

763
00:34:35,570 --> 00:34:37,580
S2: Of trying to figure out what we do know and

764
00:34:37,580 --> 00:34:39,710
S2: the Internet. I know people say bad things about the Internet,

765
00:34:39,710 --> 00:34:42,650
S2: but it's an amazing place and there are some very

766
00:34:42,650 --> 00:34:45,620
S2: talented people on there and we might be sad. Succession

767
00:34:45,620 --> 00:34:48,590
S2: is over, but there are a lot of amateur sleuths

768
00:34:48,590 --> 00:34:49,549
S2: who I think will be too.

769
00:34:49,580 --> 00:34:51,020
S3: Are you talking about the Internet is like when I

770
00:34:51,020 --> 00:34:54,230
S3: gave my nan an iPad? Yeah. This is.

771
00:34:54,230 --> 00:34:55,160
S4: Amazing.

772
00:34:55,250 --> 00:34:59,840
S2: The World Wide Web. There are many voices on it. Okay.

773
00:34:59,840 --> 00:35:01,489
S2: So this is what I will tell you what I

774
00:35:01,489 --> 00:35:02,569
S2: think we do now. I'm just going to lay out

775
00:35:02,570 --> 00:35:05,240
S2: the facts and then you guys can you guys can

776
00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:09,020
S2: deduce deductive reason, as we might say. So what do

777
00:35:09,020 --> 00:35:11,029
S2: we know? We know Tom is from Minnesota. He's not

778
00:35:11,030 --> 00:35:13,340
S2: from money. We know his mom is a lawyer. We

779
00:35:13,340 --> 00:35:16,040
S2: know Tom went to Cornell. There's a diploma hanging in

780
00:35:16,040 --> 00:35:18,620
S2: the background of a scene. He also at some stage

781
00:35:18,620 --> 00:35:20,870
S2: went to Harvard or at least was in a Harvard

782
00:35:20,870 --> 00:35:25,040
S2: social club because his friends and his bachelor, seen at

783
00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:28,100
S2: his bachelor party, are from a Harvard social club. So

784
00:35:28,100 --> 00:35:30,770
S2: maybe he's not an undergrad and a masters. Who knows?

785
00:35:30,770 --> 00:35:33,319
S2: So that's what we know about Tom. In terms of

786
00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:35,720
S2: Tom and Shiv, we know that they met during a

787
00:35:35,719 --> 00:35:38,240
S2: difficult time in Shivs life, that there were visits to

788
00:35:38,239 --> 00:35:40,460
S2: France and there were handwritten notes that there was a

789
00:35:40,460 --> 00:35:43,430
S2: silk shirt. Guys.

790
00:35:43,850 --> 00:35:46,880
S1: This is the this is like the Thomas is the

791
00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:48,830
S1: worst version of Thomas's fun fact corner.

792
00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:50,029
S4: I think I.

793
00:35:50,030 --> 00:35:53,450
S2: Gathered momentum, but unlike the show, I could not finish.

794
00:35:54,110 --> 00:35:55,850
S1: Yeah, you didn't really land. You didn't really land the

795
00:35:55,850 --> 00:35:57,440
S1: plane on that one. No, I'm sorry.

796
00:35:57,650 --> 00:36:02,090
S2: I've given you. I've given you so many details. All right.

797
00:36:02,090 --> 00:36:04,549
S2: But we did find a very fun Reddit comment.

798
00:36:04,910 --> 00:36:07,040
S1: Yeah. I mean, I feel like. I feel like the

799
00:36:07,040 --> 00:36:10,489
S1: chances of them meeting at a university or something like that,

800
00:36:10,489 --> 00:36:13,910
S1: something in college or at a friends party. And in

801
00:36:13,910 --> 00:36:15,839
S1: my head, the kind of the thing is that, you know,

802
00:36:15,890 --> 00:36:18,830
S1: Shiv in a desire to sort of prove that she's

803
00:36:18,830 --> 00:36:22,480
S1: not just like this Roy kind of scion, that, you know,

804
00:36:22,489 --> 00:36:24,590
S1: she's better and different to the rest of them, would

805
00:36:24,590 --> 00:36:27,830
S1: like the idea of dating and maybe being in a

806
00:36:27,830 --> 00:36:30,410
S1: long term relationship with a quote unquote, kind of normie

807
00:36:30,410 --> 00:36:33,470
S1: like Tom. She would feel like I'm a good person

808
00:36:33,469 --> 00:36:36,440
S1: for being in a relationship with this like every man

809
00:36:36,440 --> 00:36:40,029
S1: guy from. Minnesota. And Tom would have just been like, Well,

810
00:36:40,030 --> 00:36:43,540
S1: she's rich and attractive and that's better than anyone I'm

811
00:36:43,540 --> 00:36:45,190
S1: ever going to get. So like, let's go for it.

812
00:36:45,190 --> 00:36:47,770
S3: Yeah, I don't really think there's like a meet cute here.

813
00:36:47,770 --> 00:36:51,430
S3: I think. I think their relationship probably started in much

814
00:36:51,430 --> 00:36:54,040
S3: the same way, like carried on for the duration of

815
00:36:54,040 --> 00:36:55,719
S3: it and then ended on the balcony.

816
00:36:55,900 --> 00:36:56,470
S4: Okay, well, I'm just.

817
00:36:56,469 --> 00:36:58,360
S2: Going to go back to Reddit and talk this over

818
00:36:58,360 --> 00:37:01,630
S2: with my friends there who have way more imagination.

819
00:37:01,630 --> 00:37:02,620
S4: Yeah. Penny Patterson.

820
00:37:02,620 --> 00:37:05,589
S3: 87, whoever posted it, I almost kind of prefer not

821
00:37:05,590 --> 00:37:08,040
S3: knowing how they met. I've like just watching, you know,

822
00:37:08,140 --> 00:37:15,029
S3: how they implode slowly. I'm more curious about how Roman

823
00:37:15,150 --> 00:37:21,500
S3: managed to like. The whole Jerry Roman situation. We only

824
00:37:21,500 --> 00:37:23,960
S3: got such a snippet of that. I wish they could

825
00:37:23,960 --> 00:37:26,989
S3: have kind of gone heavier into like the weird slime

826
00:37:26,989 --> 00:37:30,230
S3: puppy saga, because that would have really I mean, people

827
00:37:30,230 --> 00:37:32,160
S3: love that storyline. It was so bizarre.

828
00:37:32,180 --> 00:37:33,919
S1: Yeah. And you talk you talk to Jay Smith, Cameron,

829
00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:36,410
S1: who plays Jerry about that in the interview, which is really,

830
00:37:36,410 --> 00:37:39,710
S1: really interesting about the genesis of that storyline and and

831
00:37:39,710 --> 00:37:41,060
S1: how it sort of came to be and how it

832
00:37:41,060 --> 00:37:43,460
S1: played out I think is well worth sticking around at

833
00:37:43,460 --> 00:37:45,590
S1: the end of the pod to listen to that. Let's

834
00:37:45,590 --> 00:37:48,440
S1: go to another listener question. A few people have actually

835
00:37:48,440 --> 00:37:52,310
S1: written in about this one. Basically, people are asking the

836
00:37:52,310 --> 00:37:55,790
S1: dead waiter from season one that Kendal killed or played

837
00:37:55,790 --> 00:37:58,250
S1: a role in their death. At the very least. Will

838
00:37:58,250 --> 00:38:01,670
S1: there be consequences? Will that come up at the end

839
00:38:01,670 --> 00:38:04,670
S1: of this season? I think we've seen hints towards it.

840
00:38:04,670 --> 00:38:08,300
S1: I think we know that Kendall was being threatened by

841
00:38:08,300 --> 00:38:11,000
S1: Logan essentially for an entire season that was looming over

842
00:38:11,000 --> 00:38:13,460
S1: his head. So we know it's there. It's kind of

843
00:38:13,460 --> 00:38:16,549
S1: like the Chekhov's gun that you mentioned earlier, Mel. Like

844
00:38:16,550 --> 00:38:19,040
S1: this is a thing that exists. It could come out

845
00:38:19,040 --> 00:38:21,710
S1: of nowhere and it could change things. Will it is

846
00:38:21,710 --> 00:38:24,340
S1: that something that will impact the storyline of the show?

847
00:38:24,350 --> 00:38:25,400
S1: What do you think, Thomas?

848
00:38:25,550 --> 00:38:27,530
S3: Yeah, a lot of people have been talking about this

849
00:38:27,530 --> 00:38:29,000
S3: as we get closer to the end, I guess because

850
00:38:29,000 --> 00:38:32,850
S3: it's that it's that big looming storyline. I don't think

851
00:38:32,850 --> 00:38:34,890
S3: it is going to come up again. I think if

852
00:38:34,890 --> 00:38:38,280
S3: anyone was to bring it up again, it would probably

853
00:38:38,280 --> 00:38:40,350
S3: be Shiv. I guess the scene is kind of set

854
00:38:40,350 --> 00:38:43,620
S3: for a Shiv versus Kendall showdown. And Shiv has proven

855
00:38:43,620 --> 00:38:46,439
S3: in the past that she's willing to kind of do anything.

856
00:38:46,480 --> 00:38:49,020
S3: I remember when Kendall did that, you know, play that

857
00:38:49,020 --> 00:38:51,660
S3: Nirvana song during her big presentation, and then she basically

858
00:38:51,780 --> 00:38:54,000
S3: put an open letter out there going through his drug

859
00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:57,180
S3: addiction and everything was like it was ruthless. So I

860
00:38:57,180 --> 00:38:59,340
S3: think Shiv always knows she has that up her sleeve.

861
00:38:59,370 --> 00:39:00,719
S3: A lot of people have been talking about the fact

862
00:39:00,719 --> 00:39:03,090
S3: that the only other person that really knows all about

863
00:39:03,090 --> 00:39:05,310
S3: it is Collin. And we have had so like an

864
00:39:06,120 --> 00:39:07,529
S3: I'm not going to say unnecessary because I don't want

865
00:39:07,530 --> 00:39:10,950
S3: to offend you. BELL But and noticeable amount of Colin

866
00:39:10,950 --> 00:39:13,140
S3: in this season like he's been around a lot including

867
00:39:13,140 --> 00:39:15,600
S3: in the last episode. So people are kind of seeing the,

868
00:39:15,600 --> 00:39:18,900
S3: I guess, the very purposeful inclusion of Colin as a

869
00:39:18,900 --> 00:39:20,730
S3: nod to the fact that, you know, he does know

870
00:39:20,730 --> 00:39:22,890
S3: about the waiter. He was very much across it. So

871
00:39:22,890 --> 00:39:25,979
S3: will he, you know, I guess use that at some point?

872
00:39:25,980 --> 00:39:27,629
S3: Will that is that a is it a pointer to

873
00:39:27,630 --> 00:39:28,520
S3: the fact that it's going to come back?

874
00:39:28,530 --> 00:39:32,160
S2: Oh, I also just connected that that's why Kendall is

875
00:39:32,160 --> 00:39:34,770
S2: so upset that he's talking to a psychologist. It's because

876
00:39:34,770 --> 00:39:36,540
S2: Colin was involved in the cover up.

877
00:39:36,690 --> 00:39:39,089
S3: He thinks that. Does Colin have head noise about the waiter?

878
00:39:39,090 --> 00:39:41,130
S3: And then he's like, talking to his doctor and. Yeah.

879
00:39:41,130 --> 00:39:44,310
S2: And will that get me in trouble? Yeah. Thank you, Thomas. Yeah.

880
00:39:45,060 --> 00:39:48,000
S1: I also actually only really put those two dots together.

881
00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:50,430
S4: Then sometimes one one week before the finale.

882
00:39:50,430 --> 00:39:51,960
S2: When someone puts it. So obviously.

883
00:39:53,430 --> 00:39:55,529
S3: So, yeah, I guess we'll see.

884
00:39:56,160 --> 00:39:58,500
S1: Yeah. Mel do you think that this will come up

885
00:39:58,500 --> 00:40:01,560
S1: in the finale, this question of the, the Chekhov's waiter?

886
00:40:02,040 --> 00:40:06,540
S2: I didn't because I thought they had let Kendall move

887
00:40:06,540 --> 00:40:10,620
S2: too far away from the emotions that were attached to

888
00:40:10,620 --> 00:40:13,800
S2: that episode and that incident. And they haven't kind of

889
00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:16,709
S2: heralded it enough. And that if they kind of just

890
00:40:16,710 --> 00:40:19,620
S2: pushed it in to be the the day of the

891
00:40:19,620 --> 00:40:23,160
S2: final episode, it would seem kind of overworked and too

892
00:40:23,160 --> 00:40:25,470
S2: much of a surprise for us to to believe it.

893
00:40:25,469 --> 00:40:27,990
S2: And it would seem too much of an easy way

894
00:40:27,989 --> 00:40:31,650
S2: to sum it all up. But yeah, maybe they have

895
00:40:31,650 --> 00:40:34,080
S2: been hinting at it more than what I've recognized. There's

896
00:40:34,080 --> 00:40:38,430
S2: been certainly a few shots of Walter and Kendall in

897
00:40:38,430 --> 00:40:41,759
S2: Walter during this season and over the season since that incident,

898
00:40:41,760 --> 00:40:45,089
S2: and Colin is coming back into the fold. So yeah,

899
00:40:45,090 --> 00:40:47,580
S2: maybe it will loiter along in the background.

900
00:40:47,910 --> 00:40:51,029
S1: Yeah, The only, the only way I think it would

901
00:40:51,030 --> 00:40:55,200
S1: enter the story and feel natural. I think like both

902
00:40:55,200 --> 00:40:57,330
S1: siblings other than Kendall know about it as well. Like

903
00:40:57,330 --> 00:40:59,819
S1: he admitted it to them when they were in Italy.

904
00:40:59,820 --> 00:41:03,150
S1: Shiv using it as an attempt to maybe stop the

905
00:41:03,150 --> 00:41:06,060
S1: board from backing his plan. Feels like it could be

906
00:41:06,060 --> 00:41:09,330
S1: a possibility, but I think for it to work, it

907
00:41:09,330 --> 00:41:11,220
S1: would make more sense for me if she tried to

908
00:41:11,219 --> 00:41:13,350
S1: use it and it somehow blew up in her face,

909
00:41:13,350 --> 00:41:16,630
S1: or Kendall managed to survive it. So she, you know,

910
00:41:16,650 --> 00:41:19,620
S1: ends up severing the ties with her family by accusing

911
00:41:19,620 --> 00:41:22,110
S1: her brother of murder. And that doesn't work out for her.

912
00:41:22,110 --> 00:41:24,150
S1: I think that's the scenario I can see playing out

913
00:41:24,150 --> 00:41:27,480
S1: that feels natural to the show. But I kind of

914
00:41:27,480 --> 00:41:30,209
S1: generally agree with you guys. I don't think it's likely

915
00:41:30,210 --> 00:41:31,080
S1: to emerge.

916
00:41:31,080 --> 00:41:32,610
S2: So so I was going to say in some points

917
00:41:32,610 --> 00:41:34,830
S2: they're all in some ways they're all neutralized when it

918
00:41:34,830 --> 00:41:37,020
S2: comes to that issue because they all do know about it.

919
00:41:37,020 --> 00:41:38,820
S2: So they're all culpable. Now.

920
00:41:40,200 --> 00:41:41,759
S1: Why didn't you why don't you raise this like a

921
00:41:41,760 --> 00:41:42,180
S1: year ago?

922
00:41:42,210 --> 00:41:42,810
S4: Yeah, exactly.

923
00:41:42,810 --> 00:41:45,000
S2: And also, it's the idea of they're all tied to

924
00:41:45,000 --> 00:41:47,190
S2: the stock. So if they which is part of the

925
00:41:47,190 --> 00:41:49,260
S2: interest of it, I guess if they throw one sibling

926
00:41:49,260 --> 00:41:51,780
S2: under the bus, they're also the risk that they're all

927
00:41:51,780 --> 00:41:54,630
S2: going to lose out from it when the share price plummets. Yeah.

928
00:41:55,140 --> 00:41:58,440
S1: Okay. Let's go on to another question. This is a

929
00:41:58,440 --> 00:42:02,250
S1: really good one. Did the Pearce deal just disappear without consequence?

930
00:42:02,250 --> 00:42:06,960
S1: Remember remember the peace deal dominated the start of this season? Thomas,

931
00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:08,370
S1: what do you think happened here?

932
00:42:08,370 --> 00:42:12,570
S3: I think this is just somewhere like telling people bigger

933
00:42:12,570 --> 00:42:16,140
S3: and bigger numbers. What comes after ten again? Um, no,

934
00:42:16,140 --> 00:42:17,880
S3: it's a good question. But then again, this brings me

935
00:42:17,880 --> 00:42:21,359
S3: back to an issue that I have been discussing like

936
00:42:21,360 --> 00:42:24,719
S3: ad nauseum this week, the problematic timeline of this season.

937
00:42:24,719 --> 00:42:26,890
S3: So it feels like the peace deal was like a

938
00:42:26,890 --> 00:42:28,589
S3: million years ago because it was like it was an

939
00:42:28,590 --> 00:42:31,319
S3: episode one and two thing. But that's obviously only like

940
00:42:31,320 --> 00:42:34,410
S3: a week ago in real terms in this season. And

941
00:42:34,410 --> 00:42:38,730
S3: so like, I'm guessing, you know. Obviously, Logan dies in

942
00:42:38,730 --> 00:42:41,130
S3: episode three, which is six days ago, and then that

943
00:42:41,130 --> 00:42:43,410
S3: changes everything because the kids lose interest in Pierce because

944
00:42:43,410 --> 00:42:47,610
S3: they're back into the ATN. Waystar is a wider picture thing,

945
00:42:47,610 --> 00:42:49,319
S3: but probably Nan piece is like, Well, I'm not going

946
00:42:49,320 --> 00:42:50,760
S3: to call these guys. They're like in the middle of

947
00:42:50,760 --> 00:42:52,710
S3: burying their father. They just had the election. She might

948
00:42:52,710 --> 00:42:54,900
S3: think the deal is still alive, but yeah, I think

949
00:42:54,900 --> 00:42:55,860
S3: it's reasonable.

950
00:42:56,489 --> 00:42:59,069
S1: There is like a big plot hole in the sense that, like,

951
00:42:59,070 --> 00:43:03,180
S1: Kendall was really keen to do this deal. But then

952
00:43:03,180 --> 00:43:06,750
S1: he decides that he wants to not sell to Gojo,

953
00:43:06,750 --> 00:43:08,100
S1: which was how they're going to fund the deal. He

954
00:43:08,100 --> 00:43:11,759
S1: wants to buy Gojo there for no longer having the

955
00:43:11,760 --> 00:43:16,290
S1: money to buy PG again like that just doesn't seem

956
00:43:16,290 --> 00:43:19,380
S1: like that's going to be resolved at all. And I think, again,

957
00:43:19,380 --> 00:43:21,120
S1: it's not like a fatal flaw of the show, but

958
00:43:21,120 --> 00:43:23,759
S1: I just think that there are more plot holes in

959
00:43:23,760 --> 00:43:24,719
S1: this season than we've seen.

960
00:43:24,719 --> 00:43:26,839
S2: And. Kendall Very unpredictable personality.

961
00:43:26,850 --> 00:43:28,920
S3: Yeah, there's more plot holes because there's too much fucking plot.

962
00:43:28,920 --> 00:43:29,820
S3: Like we said before.

963
00:43:29,820 --> 00:43:32,310
S2: Sorry. You want plot? You like people dying, You want

964
00:43:32,310 --> 00:43:33,839
S2: movement behind.

965
00:43:33,840 --> 00:43:34,110
S4: Big.

966
00:43:34,110 --> 00:43:36,510
S3: Plot, but like one big plot.

967
00:43:37,560 --> 00:43:41,640
S1: Another question about Logan's history here. Did we ever find

968
00:43:41,640 --> 00:43:45,509
S1: out what happened to the marks on Logan's back or

969
00:43:45,510 --> 00:43:48,930
S1: what caused those marks? Mel, remind us of these marks

970
00:43:48,930 --> 00:43:51,120
S1: and what we think about them. Pretty sure it was Carrie.

971
00:43:51,570 --> 00:43:52,020
S3: Yeah.

972
00:43:52,980 --> 00:43:55,469
S2: Okay. Detective Mel, up for duty again.

973
00:43:55,500 --> 00:43:56,010
S4: Here we go.

974
00:43:57,719 --> 00:43:59,219
S2: I'm really getting into it. I should have been doing

975
00:43:59,219 --> 00:44:00,840
S2: fun facts all along. Yeah.

976
00:44:00,870 --> 00:44:03,209
S1: Detective Mel is a really good segment. Too bad we've

977
00:44:03,210 --> 00:44:04,169
S1: got one episode left.

978
00:44:04,950 --> 00:44:07,920
S2: Yeah. So this happened in season one in episode seven.

979
00:44:07,920 --> 00:44:10,260
S2: And you might remember there was this shot of Logan

980
00:44:10,260 --> 00:44:13,589
S2: getting out of the pool. He's in New Mexico with Marcia,

981
00:44:13,590 --> 00:44:17,040
S2: and he has all these scars on his back. And

982
00:44:17,040 --> 00:44:20,279
S2: I think you're led to believe that they were from

983
00:44:20,280 --> 00:44:23,040
S2: his abusive childhood. And we found out a bit more

984
00:44:23,040 --> 00:44:26,910
S2: about that during last week's episode, actually, that him and

985
00:44:26,910 --> 00:44:29,730
S2: Ewan and their sister Rose were sent to live with

986
00:44:29,730 --> 00:44:32,310
S2: their Uncle Noah in Canada during the war and that

987
00:44:32,310 --> 00:44:35,969
S2: they had a really bad time. Rose died. Logan blamed himself,

988
00:44:35,969 --> 00:44:38,430
S2: and I think Brian Cox has actually talked about the

989
00:44:38,430 --> 00:44:42,810
S2: scars being from Uncle Noah. And so I think that's

990
00:44:42,810 --> 00:44:46,259
S2: probably probably what the show suggests happen. And I guess

991
00:44:46,260 --> 00:44:48,719
S2: it's trying to make a point about, you know, hierarchies

992
00:44:48,719 --> 00:44:51,779
S2: of abuse. And it's that poison drips through thing and

993
00:44:51,780 --> 00:44:55,050
S2: a monster being made not born, But I think it

994
00:44:55,050 --> 00:44:56,850
S2: could be more fun maybe for us to think about

995
00:44:56,940 --> 00:44:59,040
S2: how else he got those scars. Because I remember when

996
00:44:59,040 --> 00:45:01,920
S2: I first watched it, it was like Marcia was looking

997
00:45:01,920 --> 00:45:04,799
S2: over him as he got out of the pool and

998
00:45:04,800 --> 00:45:06,450
S2: she gives him a bathrobe. And it was in that

999
00:45:06,450 --> 00:45:08,790
S2: time when we were like, Oh, Marcia's going to take

1000
00:45:08,790 --> 00:45:11,700
S2: over the company. And I was like, Maybe Marcia did

1001
00:45:11,700 --> 00:45:12,480
S2: that to him.

1002
00:45:13,350 --> 00:45:15,150
S1: Yeah, I think that's right. Mel I think it was

1003
00:45:15,330 --> 00:45:17,520
S1: one of the early indicators that Logan had a pretty

1004
00:45:17,520 --> 00:45:20,489
S1: abusive childhood, and so he hasn't just come out of nowhere.

1005
00:45:20,489 --> 00:45:23,969
S1: This is a generational kind of abusive family which has

1006
00:45:23,969 --> 00:45:27,870
S1: created the dynamic between the siblings that we've been seeing. Yeah,

1007
00:45:27,870 --> 00:45:31,800
S1: really great questions. Thanks, everyone, for sending them in. Before

1008
00:45:31,800 --> 00:45:38,100
S1: we wrap up this special preview episode. This is that chance,

1009
00:45:38,100 --> 00:45:41,040
S1: I guess, to share our final predictions about what we

1010
00:45:41,040 --> 00:45:43,860
S1: think might happen in the finale, what we think might

1011
00:45:43,860 --> 00:45:47,450
S1: be needed to deliver a really good finale of this show.

1012
00:45:47,460 --> 00:45:50,430
S1: I mean, finales are hard. There are so many more

1013
00:45:50,430 --> 00:45:53,850
S1: examples of shows getting them very wrong than there are

1014
00:45:53,880 --> 00:45:57,690
S1: of shows getting them right. I have learned over the

1015
00:45:57,690 --> 00:45:59,940
S1: course of this season and doing this podcast to not

1016
00:45:59,940 --> 00:46:03,450
S1: really make predictions because the show just goes in so

1017
00:46:03,450 --> 00:46:07,589
S1: many different and surprising areas. My only specific one is

1018
00:46:07,590 --> 00:46:10,620
S1: that Shiv is not going to be the US CEO

1019
00:46:10,620 --> 00:46:13,230
S1: of Waystar Gojo. That is not going to happen. The

1020
00:46:13,230 --> 00:46:15,989
S1: show has not been building her up to that point

1021
00:46:15,989 --> 00:46:17,820
S1: to then see it be delivered. I think it could

1022
00:46:17,820 --> 00:46:19,800
S1: be Tom. It could be Greg. It could be No. One.

1023
00:46:19,800 --> 00:46:21,690
S1: I just think Shiv is not going to have a

1024
00:46:21,690 --> 00:46:24,870
S1: good time in this episode. More, more kind of generally

1025
00:46:24,870 --> 00:46:27,990
S1: in terms of how the emotional stakes of this episode

1026
00:46:28,050 --> 00:46:31,770
S1: stand and where things will go, I hope and I

1027
00:46:31,770 --> 00:46:35,730
S1: think it will be brutal. Like there are people who

1028
00:46:35,730 --> 00:46:39,540
S1: are still watching the show naively thinking that like their

1029
00:46:39,540 --> 00:46:42,600
S1: character might win or they might be redeemed, or there

1030
00:46:42,600 --> 00:46:47,040
S1: might be an emotional catharsis and they'll they'll emerge like

1031
00:46:47,040 --> 00:46:50,790
S1: more hold. That is not at all what is going

1032
00:46:50,790 --> 00:46:54,089
S1: to happen. I think it will be a brutal ending

1033
00:46:54,090 --> 00:46:56,070
S1: for the characters, and I think it will leave us

1034
00:46:56,070 --> 00:46:59,040
S1: all feeling pretty grim and dark about the state of

1035
00:46:59,040 --> 00:47:01,170
S1: the world. Sorry if that freaks people out, but I

1036
00:47:01,170 --> 00:47:04,020
S1: just think that is what that is what the writers

1037
00:47:04,020 --> 00:47:05,910
S1: want to say about the world through this show.

1038
00:47:06,239 --> 00:47:09,480
S3: Yeah, I think you're right. Like it's not next Monday.

1039
00:47:09,480 --> 00:47:10,740
S3: Let's all just put it out there. Next Monday is

1040
00:47:10,739 --> 00:47:13,589
S3: not going to be a happy like tying up of

1041
00:47:13,590 --> 00:47:15,570
S3: loose ends. I think it's going to be pretty grim.

1042
00:47:15,600 --> 00:47:17,580
S3: And I think we should all kind of go in

1043
00:47:17,580 --> 00:47:19,589
S3: knowing that it does feel like the odds are stacked

1044
00:47:19,590 --> 00:47:21,660
S3: against any prestige drama when it comes to like a

1045
00:47:21,660 --> 00:47:24,750
S3: big finale. So few of them end up doing it

1046
00:47:24,750 --> 00:47:26,820
S3: so well. You can kind of count on one hand.

1047
00:47:26,820 --> 00:47:29,969
S3: And I think watching Twitter at the end of the

1048
00:47:29,969 --> 00:47:31,920
S3: episode last week, like I was kind of watching as

1049
00:47:31,920 --> 00:47:35,100
S3: it played in the US. And so like the most easily,

1050
00:47:35,100 --> 00:47:37,739
S3: the most like common response was like, how are they

1051
00:47:37,739 --> 00:47:40,560
S3: going to tie up so many different loose ends? Like

1052
00:47:40,560 --> 00:47:42,930
S3: people I think are aware that there's a lot going on.

1053
00:47:42,930 --> 00:47:45,240
S3: So it does feel like it's a big job for

1054
00:47:45,239 --> 00:47:47,779
S3: the writers and I'll be curious to see how they go.

1055
00:47:47,790 --> 00:47:50,670
S3: I guess my my prediction or my theory that I

1056
00:47:51,180 --> 00:47:53,370
S3: I'm currently wedded to, even though it tends to change

1057
00:47:53,370 --> 00:47:56,160
S3: based on whoever I speak to last because I'm fickle

1058
00:47:56,160 --> 00:47:58,590
S3: like that. My current theory is that I think Mencken

1059
00:47:58,590 --> 00:48:02,580
S3: and Madison will kind of collaborate somehow to screw over

1060
00:48:02,580 --> 00:48:05,640
S3: the kids. I think Madison will will get his deal.

1061
00:48:05,640 --> 00:48:07,469
S1: And that was my theory from last episode that you've

1062
00:48:07,469 --> 00:48:07,799
S1: just told.

1063
00:48:07,800 --> 00:48:09,779
S3: Yes, Correct. Well, this is kind of like a this

1064
00:48:09,780 --> 00:48:11,630
S3: is a team theory. I'm speaking for the pod now.

1065
00:48:11,640 --> 00:48:12,330
S4: Sure, sure, sure.

1066
00:48:12,330 --> 00:48:13,859
S2: You are not our spokesperson.

1067
00:48:13,860 --> 00:48:14,640
S4: No, I know.

1068
00:48:14,730 --> 00:48:17,010
S3: So I guess taking that theory, which I agreed with,

1069
00:48:17,010 --> 00:48:18,899
S3: I think that will happen. But I agree. I don't

1070
00:48:18,900 --> 00:48:21,210
S3: think that Shiv is going to be the US CEO.

1071
00:48:21,780 --> 00:48:24,210
S3: They've kind of built up Madison and Greg is this

1072
00:48:24,210 --> 00:48:27,300
S3: weird relationship. But I think in real terms like installing

1073
00:48:27,300 --> 00:48:30,900
S3: Greg would be catastrophic for waste stars like share price.

1074
00:48:30,900 --> 00:48:33,390
S3: And Madison is not an idiot. That's why I think

1075
00:48:33,390 --> 00:48:35,489
S3: he will put Tom in, which is kind of like

1076
00:48:35,489 --> 00:48:38,040
S3: the ultimate fuck you to shiv and Tom still got

1077
00:48:38,040 --> 00:48:41,880
S3: big puppet vibes like he'll bend for Madison and the

1078
00:48:41,880 --> 00:48:45,600
S3: the series will kind of end with. Tom becoming almost

1079
00:48:45,600 --> 00:48:48,210
S3: like the new Logan promising chef that he will eventually

1080
00:48:48,210 --> 00:48:51,120
S3: hand the company over to their unborn child, which is

1081
00:48:51,120 --> 00:48:53,100
S3: basically back to where it all began at the show.

1082
00:48:53,460 --> 00:48:54,480
S3: Ipso facto.

1083
00:48:54,480 --> 00:48:55,530
S1: That I like that.

1084
00:48:56,070 --> 00:48:57,509
S3: We've come full circle.

1085
00:48:57,719 --> 00:49:00,810
S2: Wow. Really nicely. All tied up there. Yeah. I kind

1086
00:49:00,810 --> 00:49:03,030
S2: of may be the expectation that all the loose ends

1087
00:49:03,030 --> 00:49:05,009
S2: will be tied up I think is too high. I

1088
00:49:05,010 --> 00:49:08,759
S2: don't think they'll try to do that or be able to.

1089
00:49:08,760 --> 00:49:10,379
S2: I'm kind of with yours. I want to see go

1090
00:49:10,380 --> 00:49:13,770
S2: out with a big bang. I want an explosion to

1091
00:49:13,770 --> 00:49:16,500
S2: end it all. I hope it's not an ambiguous ending.

1092
00:49:16,500 --> 00:49:19,080
S2: Like I hope there is a real statement, but I

1093
00:49:19,080 --> 00:49:21,600
S2: think maybe that shows the genius of this show is

1094
00:49:21,600 --> 00:49:23,939
S2: that you kind of don't know what you want until

1095
00:49:23,940 --> 00:49:26,370
S2: they give it to you. But I do think everyone

1096
00:49:26,370 --> 00:49:27,810
S2: will be sad not just because of what happens in

1097
00:49:27,810 --> 00:49:29,820
S2: the show, but I think no one's really. Well, maybe

1098
00:49:29,820 --> 00:49:31,920
S2: you are. Tom is actually quite ready to leave behind

1099
00:49:31,920 --> 00:49:33,719
S2: the world of these characters, and I feel like we

1100
00:49:33,719 --> 00:49:36,000
S2: could spend so much more time being a fly on

1101
00:49:36,000 --> 00:49:37,890
S2: the wall. So I think they'll always be that sense

1102
00:49:37,890 --> 00:49:41,310
S2: of disappointment with a finale like this. But I will

1103
00:49:41,310 --> 00:49:43,140
S2: say from there they showed a little trailer of the

1104
00:49:43,140 --> 00:49:46,410
S2: next episode and it's only 20s, but we probably spent

1105
00:49:46,410 --> 00:49:49,259
S2: a good two hours maybe rewatching it frame by frame

1106
00:49:49,260 --> 00:49:53,130
S2: just to bring you the insight that we do know.

1107
00:49:53,130 --> 00:49:56,220
S2: And there are a lot of shots of the coast

1108
00:49:56,219 --> 00:49:59,400
S2: and water. There's a bit of linen clothing going on.

1109
00:49:59,400 --> 00:50:03,240
S2: Shivas got some cool sunglasses. So I do wonder and

1110
00:50:03,239 --> 00:50:06,090
S2: I hope maybe we get one more family holiday before

1111
00:50:06,090 --> 00:50:07,650
S2: it all descends into chaos.

1112
00:50:08,370 --> 00:50:11,580
S1: And just before we sort of wrap up this episode, Mal,

1113
00:50:11,610 --> 00:50:13,980
S1: I'm going to give you an opportunity to show off

1114
00:50:13,980 --> 00:50:18,629
S1: your literary chops again because we know the title for

1115
00:50:18,630 --> 00:50:22,469
S1: this episode, and it follows a motif that every finale

1116
00:50:22,469 --> 00:50:26,590
S1: season finale of succession has so far. I could just

1117
00:50:26,590 --> 00:50:29,320
S1: read out the notes here, but I don't really know

1118
00:50:29,320 --> 00:50:32,310
S1: much about John Berryman. John Berryman? Is that his name?

1119
00:50:32,320 --> 00:50:34,480
S3: Yes, John Berryman. You know, a big Berryman guy.

1120
00:50:35,560 --> 00:50:38,740
S1: Not a huge Berryman head. Not a big Berryman head. Mel,

1121
00:50:38,739 --> 00:50:40,960
S1: why don't you explain what these titles are, what they

1122
00:50:40,960 --> 00:50:43,540
S1: mean and what clues they give us about where the

1123
00:50:43,540 --> 00:50:44,560
S1: show might be going. Okay.

1124
00:50:44,560 --> 00:50:47,410
S2: My English degree has never come in handy more than

1125
00:50:47,410 --> 00:50:49,060
S2: this episode. Like that is my.

1126
00:50:49,510 --> 00:50:51,910
S1: Fancy, a bit of a humble, my English degree. Some

1127
00:50:51,910 --> 00:50:53,350
S1: of us don't have degrees, Mel.

1128
00:50:53,469 --> 00:50:56,589
S2: Yeah, well, apologies here. I'm here to help. I'm here

1129
00:50:56,590 --> 00:50:58,050
S2: to bring you along for.

1130
00:50:58,060 --> 00:50:58,900
S4: The three quarters.

1131
00:50:58,900 --> 00:51:02,020
S1: Of an engineering degree. Not helpful at all for succession recap.

1132
00:51:02,140 --> 00:51:03,880
S2: But you do understand structures?

1133
00:51:03,969 --> 00:51:04,540
S4: Sort of. Yeah.

1134
00:51:05,020 --> 00:51:06,130
S3: I just interned at Volta.

1135
00:51:06,610 --> 00:51:06,970
S4: Yeah.

1136
00:51:07,090 --> 00:51:12,820
S2: You intern to the zoo? Clearly. Yes. Okay. John Berryman.

1137
00:51:12,820 --> 00:51:16,300
S2: He was a American 20th century poet. He was very

1138
00:51:16,300 --> 00:51:20,290
S2: known for his kind of confessional style of poetry. Interestingly,

1139
00:51:20,290 --> 00:51:23,350
S2: he was always haunted by his father's death, and he

1140
00:51:23,350 --> 00:51:27,520
S2: died jumping off a bridge. And each of the season's

1141
00:51:27,520 --> 00:51:32,350
S2: final episodes have taken the title. Their title has been

1142
00:51:32,350 --> 00:51:36,279
S2: a line from his poem Dream Song 29. So you

1143
00:51:36,280 --> 00:51:39,069
S2: had in season one, the final episode was Nobody Has

1144
00:51:39,070 --> 00:51:41,770
S2: Ever Missing than You Had. This Is Not For Tears

1145
00:51:41,770 --> 00:51:46,450
S2: Season three All the Bells say, and this season's final

1146
00:51:46,450 --> 00:51:49,689
S2: episode has the title with Open Eyes, and the line

1147
00:51:49,690 --> 00:51:54,730
S2: in the poem is Ghastly with open eyes. He attends Blind,

1148
00:51:54,850 --> 00:51:56,130
S2: which suggests.

1149
00:51:56,130 --> 00:51:56,740
S3: It does feel very.

1150
00:51:56,739 --> 00:51:58,210
S2: Ominous. What does that suggest to you?

1151
00:51:58,210 --> 00:52:03,549
S3: Thomas Well, my understanding of. Berryman No. The thing I

1152
00:52:03,550 --> 00:52:05,350
S3: do think is interesting about the whole theory is like

1153
00:52:05,350 --> 00:52:08,440
S3: particularly the bridge thing, there's lots of bridges in Manhattan

1154
00:52:08,440 --> 00:52:11,170
S3: and Kendal. Like there's been such a water motif with

1155
00:52:11,170 --> 00:52:13,750
S3: Kendall throughout the whole thing. Like, I don't know, does

1156
00:52:13,750 --> 00:52:17,140
S3: anyone would anyone be surprised if at some point, Kendall, like,

1157
00:52:17,140 --> 00:52:18,489
S3: standing on the edge of a bridge?

1158
00:52:18,640 --> 00:52:20,110
S1: I wouldn't be surprised. No. No. I mean, like, I

1159
00:52:20,110 --> 00:52:22,060
S1: think totally we're all seem to think that things are

1160
00:52:22,060 --> 00:52:25,450
S1: going in a grim direction. This poem, from what Mel said,

1161
00:52:25,450 --> 00:52:29,950
S1: if she's right, seems seems quite depressing. And, you know,

1162
00:52:29,950 --> 00:52:32,680
S1: it could be something as dark as that, like 100%.

1163
00:52:32,680 --> 00:52:34,239
S1: I don't think we should be surprised if that's where

1164
00:52:34,239 --> 00:52:34,750
S1: it goes.

1165
00:52:34,750 --> 00:52:37,540
S2: I prefer you refer to me as Professor Mel from

1166
00:52:37,540 --> 00:52:38,620
S2: now on. But the.

1167
00:52:38,890 --> 00:52:40,509
S1: Detective. Professor Mel. All right.

1168
00:52:41,290 --> 00:52:44,620
S2: The Dream Song 29. It's actually about this figure called Henry,

1169
00:52:44,620 --> 00:52:47,230
S2: an alter ego for the author. And it's about this

1170
00:52:47,230 --> 00:52:49,330
S2: guy who is haunted by the idea that he has

1171
00:52:49,330 --> 00:52:51,730
S2: done something wrong and that he has hurt people and

1172
00:52:51,730 --> 00:52:54,969
S2: it's really depressive and melancholic. So it also might not

1173
00:52:54,969 --> 00:52:57,730
S2: point to anything but sum up this mood of people

1174
00:52:57,820 --> 00:53:00,009
S2: hurting people and being haunted by that, never being able

1175
00:53:00,010 --> 00:53:01,150
S2: to escape that.

1176
00:53:01,150 --> 00:53:03,280
S3: Just further proof that even though we talk about this

1177
00:53:03,280 --> 00:53:06,310
S3: show and like endlessly like, man, the level of like

1178
00:53:06,310 --> 00:53:08,440
S3: the layers to this show that probably we probably haven't,

1179
00:53:08,440 --> 00:53:10,330
S3: even the ones that we don't even know exist are

1180
00:53:10,330 --> 00:53:12,370
S3: so impressive. It's just yeah, yeah.

1181
00:53:12,370 --> 00:53:15,730
S1: And even if there isn't a direct relationship, it's just

1182
00:53:15,730 --> 00:53:19,150
S1: a nice little nod to a poem that Jesse Armstrong likes.

1183
00:53:19,150 --> 00:53:21,040
S2: But do you think he intentionally is messing with us?

1184
00:53:21,040 --> 00:53:25,000
S2: Like he's playing into the the kind of paradox that

1185
00:53:25,000 --> 00:53:27,490
S2: exists around this and he's playing into that?

1186
00:53:27,820 --> 00:53:30,220
S1: I think he would love the idea that an English

1187
00:53:30,219 --> 00:53:33,640
S1: major is spending time on a podcast debating and discussing

1188
00:53:33,640 --> 00:53:35,890
S1: what this title could mean. It could mean literally nothing.

1189
00:53:35,890 --> 00:53:38,779
S1: Like he's also a funny guy who loves to talk

1190
00:53:38,950 --> 00:53:42,370
S1: like this show is aimed in terms of who it

1191
00:53:42,370 --> 00:53:45,040
S1: makes fun of. People like us as much as anyone else,

1192
00:53:45,040 --> 00:53:48,009
S1: like people who work in the media and like take

1193
00:53:48,010 --> 00:53:50,259
S1: things very seriously. Like he is taking the piss out

1194
00:53:50,260 --> 00:53:52,390
S1: of us while we watch the show and we love

1195
00:53:52,390 --> 00:53:54,759
S1: it and we analyze these things that he reminds us

1196
00:53:54,760 --> 00:53:57,489
S1: every episode. We are idiots for doing. You know, this

1197
00:53:57,489 --> 00:53:59,830
S1: question of like, who wins? Everyone involved in the show

1198
00:53:59,830 --> 00:54:01,900
S1: is saying you're all morons. Like, stop doing that. What

1199
00:54:01,900 --> 00:54:04,330
S1: are you giving points away for you big dummies? Like

1200
00:54:04,330 --> 00:54:07,089
S1: just watch the show, realize that you're idiots and we're

1201
00:54:07,090 --> 00:54:08,230
S1: making fun of you. Basically.

1202
00:54:08,230 --> 00:54:10,359
S3: Yeah, but great for content though guys. It is very.

1203
00:54:10,360 --> 00:54:12,009
S1: Fun to watch and it's very fun to talk about.

1204
00:54:12,100 --> 00:54:16,540
S1: Thomas and Professor Detective Mel, thank you for this week's

1205
00:54:16,540 --> 00:54:22,239
S1: special preview episode. We'll be back next week for the finale. Recap. Thanks.

1206
00:54:22,239 --> 00:54:23,260
S1: BOTH Thanks, guys.

1207
00:54:23,260 --> 00:54:23,830
S4: Bye.

1208
00:54:25,510 --> 00:54:28,690
S1: Okay, Here's Thomas's interview with Jay Smith. Karen, who plays

1209
00:54:28,690 --> 00:54:31,060
S1: the wonderful Jerry on succession.

1210
00:54:40,180 --> 00:54:43,170
S3: Jay Smith. Cameron, welcome to the drop. I guess first

1211
00:54:43,170 --> 00:54:47,850
S3: things first. We've just recently seen episode nine Air. The

1212
00:54:47,850 --> 00:54:50,460
S3: obvious question is how much of you is glad Logan

1213
00:54:50,460 --> 00:54:53,549
S3: is gone? Because that's kind of Jerry's most stinging moment

1214
00:54:53,550 --> 00:54:54,390
S3: in the episode.

1215
00:54:55,050 --> 00:54:59,399
S5: Well, you know, he had treated her so brutally after

1216
00:54:59,400 --> 00:55:04,469
S5: being really loyal to him for decades, presumably. And I

1217
00:55:04,469 --> 00:55:09,750
S5: think between Roman and Logan, she's just disgusted with them.

1218
00:55:10,469 --> 00:55:13,500
S3: She kind of appears to be the least impacted by

1219
00:55:13,500 --> 00:55:15,960
S3: it all. And, you know, obviously, we see the kind

1220
00:55:15,960 --> 00:55:18,430
S3: of the other responses, but it feels like, you know,

1221
00:55:18,450 --> 00:55:20,760
S3: she's she's in a different place, I guess, with her

1222
00:55:20,760 --> 00:55:22,620
S3: relationship to passing.

1223
00:55:22,830 --> 00:55:25,440
S5: Yeah. I think that what happened is before he before

1224
00:55:25,440 --> 00:55:29,700
S5: he passed away, she she he was already like really,

1225
00:55:29,850 --> 00:55:33,960
S5: you know, trying to fire her and was being really

1226
00:55:33,960 --> 00:55:39,610
S5: snotty to her. And I think that. She is a

1227
00:55:39,610 --> 00:55:45,700
S5: step ahead of detaching. From Waystar. She's had that scene

1228
00:55:45,700 --> 00:55:49,090
S5: with Roman where I'm like, Don't talk to me without

1229
00:55:49,090 --> 00:55:50,980
S5: my lawyer present and so forth.

1230
00:55:51,580 --> 00:55:53,500
S3: And, you know, the episode's kind of just gone to

1231
00:55:53,500 --> 00:55:56,770
S3: air in the US today and here in Australia. I know,

1232
00:55:56,770 --> 00:55:59,859
S3: you know, you often interact online. Do you like to

1233
00:55:59,860 --> 00:56:01,509
S3: watch it as it goes to air or do you

1234
00:56:01,510 --> 00:56:03,280
S3: watch them back as they as they roll out?

1235
00:56:04,060 --> 00:56:07,120
S5: I prefer to watch them on TV along with everyone else.

1236
00:56:07,239 --> 00:56:11,270
S5: I find it really exciting that way sometimes for press reasons.

1237
00:56:11,290 --> 00:56:14,380
S5: For instance, there was a scene in episode nine that

1238
00:56:14,380 --> 00:56:19,060
S5: from the beginning of the season was part of her arc.

1239
00:56:19,360 --> 00:56:21,130
S6: Jerry's story.

1240
00:56:21,580 --> 00:56:25,090
S5: And it didn't make it in the final cut. And

1241
00:56:25,090 --> 00:56:28,540
S5: I think for several reasons, maybe partly to do with

1242
00:56:28,540 --> 00:56:32,200
S5: the performance and partly to do with the length and

1243
00:56:32,200 --> 00:56:38,950
S5: partly that just somehow in in in little nuanced ways,

1244
00:56:40,000 --> 00:56:44,540
S5: Jerry and Roman's relationship had shifted. There was a little

1245
00:56:44,540 --> 00:56:52,130
S5: exchange in the original script where Jerry After Roman falls apart. Uh,

1246
00:56:52,420 --> 00:56:54,880
S5: you know, giving the eulogy, and he comes back to

1247
00:56:54,880 --> 00:56:58,030
S5: his seat. I sort of, like, leaned forward and talked

1248
00:56:58,030 --> 00:57:00,930
S5: over his shoulder and asked if he's okay. But it

1249
00:57:00,969 --> 00:57:03,310
S5: it it was a little bit of a difficult thing

1250
00:57:03,310 --> 00:57:05,799
S5: because we couldn't look into each other's faces. We were

1251
00:57:05,800 --> 00:57:09,100
S5: hushed in a church. So I don't know if it

1252
00:57:09,100 --> 00:57:12,490
S5: was performance or length or just maybe that they felt

1253
00:57:12,489 --> 00:57:14,529
S5: it was strong or the way we left it between

1254
00:57:14,530 --> 00:57:18,580
S5: them in the in the seven. So I don't know.

1255
00:57:18,760 --> 00:57:20,290
S5: But sad and stuff like that happened.

1256
00:57:20,740 --> 00:57:24,340
S3: Yeah. And it's funny because you know, lots of people

1257
00:57:24,340 --> 00:57:27,040
S3: online were kind of calling for Jerry to reach out

1258
00:57:27,040 --> 00:57:30,160
S3: to Rowan because he was clearly so broken in this episode. And,

1259
00:57:30,160 --> 00:57:32,050
S3: you know, she does appear to appear to kind of

1260
00:57:32,050 --> 00:57:34,900
S3: get protective of him. She they cut away to her

1261
00:57:34,900 --> 00:57:38,500
S3: face when he's breaking down. And and you see Jerry responding.

1262
00:57:38,500 --> 00:57:41,020
S3: And then later on, I think, you know, Carl and

1263
00:57:41,020 --> 00:57:42,730
S3: Frank are laughing at the video and she kind of

1264
00:57:42,730 --> 00:57:44,890
S3: tells him to stop watching it. And so, I mean,

1265
00:57:44,890 --> 00:57:47,980
S3: what do you make. There's still a tenderness there, obviously,

1266
00:57:47,980 --> 00:57:50,770
S3: for him from her, despite everything they've been through.

1267
00:57:52,250 --> 00:57:55,790
S5: Exactly. I think so. I mean, I think and then

1268
00:57:55,790 --> 00:57:58,430
S5: with the scene that was cut, you know, which everyone

1269
00:57:58,430 --> 00:58:01,040
S5: was intending to use before we set out to film it.

1270
00:58:01,880 --> 00:58:06,560
S5: The story was definitely like, this is above our differences.

1271
00:58:06,920 --> 00:58:09,830
S5: You fell apart in front of everyone. You've the you're

1272
00:58:09,860 --> 00:58:13,370
S5: the one feeling, the loss of your father seemingly the most.

1273
00:58:14,950 --> 00:58:18,250
S5: And a little humanity there. But I guess Jesse sort

1274
00:58:18,250 --> 00:58:20,340
S5: of felt like that scene in the bar when I

1275
00:58:20,380 --> 00:58:24,570
S5: say like, cut it out, guys, you know? Um, and

1276
00:58:24,760 --> 00:58:27,430
S5: just exactly this shot you mentioned, I guess they felt

1277
00:58:27,430 --> 00:58:32,200
S5: the story was being told. Anyway, so it read like

1278
00:58:32,200 --> 00:58:35,930
S5: a private moment. But it wasn't because we were in church.

1279
00:58:35,950 --> 00:58:39,760
S5: All eyes were on him. I couldn't see his face

1280
00:58:39,760 --> 00:58:43,270
S5: because I'm behind him in the church. So it was

1281
00:58:43,270 --> 00:58:45,940
S5: kind of like a misfire when we went to do it.

1282
00:58:45,940 --> 00:58:47,290
S5: So maybe that's why they cut it.

1283
00:58:47,380 --> 00:58:48,130
S4: Yeah.

1284
00:58:48,400 --> 00:58:50,830
S3: And there were some small but important moments for Jerry

1285
00:58:50,830 --> 00:58:54,340
S3: in this episode. You know, during Shivs Eulogy, she talks

1286
00:58:54,340 --> 00:58:56,860
S3: about how Logan is hard on women and they and again,

1287
00:58:56,860 --> 00:58:59,620
S3: they kind of cut to Jerry and Karolina and then

1288
00:58:59,620 --> 00:59:02,710
S3: they kind of like sharp focus to Kendall. And, you know,

1289
00:59:02,710 --> 00:59:05,290
S3: you get the sense from Jerry and Caroline that she

1290
00:59:05,290 --> 00:59:08,380
S3: understands what she was saying. She understands, you know, what

1291
00:59:08,380 --> 00:59:10,660
S3: it's like. And I guess, you know, what has it

1292
00:59:10,660 --> 00:59:14,920
S3: been like to play this very complex female character in

1293
00:59:14,920 --> 00:59:18,130
S3: a world, you know, driven and overrun by men?

1294
00:59:19,490 --> 00:59:20,060
S7: Um.

1295
00:59:20,870 --> 00:59:23,480
S5: Well, in a in a roundabout way, it's felt great

1296
00:59:23,480 --> 00:59:26,480
S5: because I feel like this is something we all know

1297
00:59:26,480 --> 00:59:29,210
S5: has been going on famously. It's been talked about a

1298
00:59:29,210 --> 00:59:33,680
S5: lot and written about and and protested about. But it

1299
00:59:33,680 --> 00:59:36,980
S5: was just great to play a woman coping with that

1300
00:59:36,980 --> 00:59:39,290
S5: over a period of time. Like it was great to

1301
00:59:39,290 --> 00:59:44,230
S5: be able to. Articulate all the slings and arrows of that.

1302
00:59:45,050 --> 00:59:47,780
S5: That position in a big company like that, working for

1303
00:59:47,780 --> 00:59:53,000
S5: a misogynistic, you know, guy. I mean, Brian Cox and

1304
00:59:53,000 --> 00:59:55,850
S5: I always felt there was some kind of little bond

1305
00:59:55,850 --> 01:00:01,040
S5: between Jerry and Logan because Jerry was always so loyal

1306
01:00:01,040 --> 01:00:04,930
S5: to him. And going on what he said, you know,

1307
01:00:04,940 --> 01:00:07,190
S5: at the end of the cruise ship, he was like

1308
01:00:07,190 --> 01:00:09,710
S5: he like basically took my hand and he was like,

1309
01:00:09,710 --> 01:00:14,480
S5: Jerry's very loyal. And so somehow the stuff with Roman

1310
01:00:14,480 --> 01:00:18,790
S5: has killed that for him and. I think Jerry feels

1311
01:00:18,790 --> 01:00:23,700
S5: like I didn't do that. Your son did that. You, shithead.

1312
01:00:24,720 --> 01:00:26,400
S5: So anyway, it was.

1313
01:00:26,400 --> 01:00:26,600
S4: Kind of.

1314
01:00:27,160 --> 01:00:29,240
S3: A sour end to them. They've always been, you know,

1315
01:00:29,280 --> 01:00:31,230
S3: like Logan and Jerry. It was almost like he was

1316
01:00:31,230 --> 01:00:33,360
S3: one of the few people she. He seemed almost treated

1317
01:00:33,360 --> 01:00:36,300
S3: as an equal. And then the ever since Roman thing

1318
01:00:36,300 --> 01:00:38,340
S3: kind of came out. And then obviously the events of

1319
01:00:38,340 --> 01:00:41,970
S3: this season, it's it's kind of soured that relationship. But

1320
01:00:42,240 --> 01:00:45,330
S3: it's a curious one and you know the show is

1321
01:00:45,330 --> 01:00:49,140
S3: so I guess lauded for its attention to detail. You know,

1322
01:00:49,140 --> 01:00:53,070
S3: there are political consultants, wealth consultants, like did you speak

1323
01:00:53,070 --> 01:00:54,840
S3: to anyone or did they offer you anyone who had

1324
01:00:54,840 --> 01:00:57,540
S3: been in like a similar high flying kind of corporate

1325
01:00:57,540 --> 01:01:00,360
S3: environment for you to speak to about what it's like

1326
01:01:00,360 --> 01:01:02,490
S3: to work in those type of situations as a woman?

1327
01:01:03,970 --> 01:01:09,370
S5: Um, not specifically that, but I did talk to their

1328
01:01:09,370 --> 01:01:14,320
S5: legal consultant several times during different seasons just to make

1329
01:01:14,320 --> 01:01:16,420
S5: sure I knew what I was talking about. And also

1330
01:01:16,420 --> 01:01:19,090
S5: when when Shiv threatened me at the end of season

1331
01:01:19,090 --> 01:01:26,030
S5: three about not having reached out to HR. And I

1332
01:01:26,030 --> 01:01:28,370
S5: think she says something like, if you can't handle your

1333
01:01:28,370 --> 01:01:33,280
S5: own sexual harassment, you know, how can you lead this company?

1334
01:01:33,290 --> 01:01:37,730
S5: And I had a long conversation with the legal consultant

1335
01:01:37,730 --> 01:01:40,580
S5: about that because she's you know, at that point I

1336
01:01:40,580 --> 01:01:44,840
S5: was the sort of temporary CEO. And when that first

1337
01:01:44,840 --> 01:01:49,040
S5: happened and she said the procedure would be if you

1338
01:01:49,040 --> 01:01:51,680
S5: were being harassed, you'd go to your boss and you'd say,

1339
01:01:51,680 --> 01:01:54,050
S5: I need to talk to HR, that this is happening.

1340
01:01:54,050 --> 01:01:58,600
S5: And so. You in a sense of being the boss

1341
01:01:58,600 --> 01:02:01,330
S5: reflected on it and go, No, I can handle them.

1342
01:02:01,330 --> 01:02:03,490
S5: I do not need to talk to, you know, like

1343
01:02:03,490 --> 01:02:06,100
S5: she didn't really do anything illegal and she knows it

1344
01:02:06,100 --> 01:02:09,850
S5: and probably. Schiff doesn't care whether it's true or not.

1345
01:02:09,850 --> 01:02:14,200
S5: She knows she's just she's just frightening me. In that scene,

1346
01:02:14,200 --> 01:02:16,240
S5: it was a really interesting scene. But anyway, I got

1347
01:02:16,240 --> 01:02:19,400
S5: off your point. Yeah. Mean did. That's usually what I

1348
01:02:19,420 --> 01:02:23,920
S5: would ask the business or legal people for just to

1349
01:02:23,920 --> 01:02:25,690
S5: make sure I knew what I was talking about in

1350
01:02:25,690 --> 01:02:29,169
S5: all the many times that Jerry had to give exposition

1351
01:02:29,170 --> 01:02:30,010
S5: in scenes.

1352
01:02:30,490 --> 01:02:32,800
S3: Yeah. Because she and she does kind of play that role.

1353
01:02:32,800 --> 01:02:35,530
S3: You know, she's often the one to kind of she's

1354
01:02:35,530 --> 01:02:38,260
S3: often the most sensible person in the room, really in a,

1355
01:02:38,260 --> 01:02:41,710
S3: in a world full of characters who are kind of

1356
01:02:41,710 --> 01:02:45,220
S3: delusional or, you know, a bit toxic. It's often Jerry

1357
01:02:45,220 --> 01:02:47,860
S3: that is the one saying the obvious things. Did you

1358
01:02:47,860 --> 01:02:48,940
S3: get the sense of that right?

1359
01:02:49,630 --> 01:02:52,120
S5: Yes, definitely. Definitely.

1360
01:02:53,560 --> 01:02:55,780
S3: It must be nice to play that role. And, you know,

1361
01:02:55,780 --> 01:02:59,080
S3: I was curious. I do say that you're active on

1362
01:02:59,080 --> 01:03:01,510
S3: Twitter and the Internet seems to have this fascination with

1363
01:03:01,510 --> 01:03:04,900
S3: Roman and Jerry. It is probably one of the, you know,

1364
01:03:05,260 --> 01:03:08,350
S3: I guess like one of the biggest takeaways from the show.

1365
01:03:08,350 --> 01:03:11,830
S3: It's a curious relationship. I mean, it made all the

1366
01:03:11,830 --> 01:03:14,950
S3: more curious by the events of season two. You know,

1367
01:03:14,950 --> 01:03:16,960
S3: I read that the evolution of their relationship, like the

1368
01:03:16,960 --> 01:03:20,200
S3: escalation was something that wasn't planned but kind of grew

1369
01:03:20,200 --> 01:03:22,930
S3: as a result of you and Kieren relationship off screen.

1370
01:03:23,020 --> 01:03:25,060
S3: You've got such good banter. Is that is that true?

1371
01:03:25,060 --> 01:03:26,170
S3: Is that how it came to be?

1372
01:03:26,900 --> 01:03:30,560
S5: Yes, that's right. We were we were all during season one,

1373
01:03:30,560 --> 01:03:34,700
S5: joking around, kind of mock flirting. And and one time

1374
01:03:34,700 --> 01:03:38,210
S5: we did a sort of improv. You know, sometimes they'll

1375
01:03:38,480 --> 01:03:41,810
S5: we'll finish this scene, but they won't call cut. So

1376
01:03:41,810 --> 01:03:44,930
S5: you just carry on and you've run out of dialogue, right?

1377
01:03:44,930 --> 01:03:47,510
S5: So you just sort of do what you want after that.

1378
01:03:47,510 --> 01:03:52,580
S5: And so Karen and I just sort of had this, like,

1379
01:03:52,580 --> 01:03:56,060
S5: flirty banter. And then I think, you know, when I

1380
01:03:56,060 --> 01:03:59,450
S5: heard about that there was going to be this relationship

1381
01:03:59,450 --> 01:04:03,680
S5: in season two, they had only thought of it as

1382
01:04:03,680 --> 01:04:09,680
S5: far as. The scene in in Turn Haven when we

1383
01:04:09,680 --> 01:04:15,220
S5: go to talk to the Pierce family. When he kind

1384
01:04:15,220 --> 01:04:19,670
S5: of comes to my bedroom and we have this. Intense

1385
01:04:19,670 --> 01:04:22,730
S5: scene that keeps turning on a dime. And then in

1386
01:04:22,730 --> 01:04:25,280
S5: the end, I make them go in the bathroom. You

1387
01:04:25,280 --> 01:04:27,740
S5: may recall, and I think it was supposed to go

1388
01:04:27,740 --> 01:04:32,300
S5: as far as that. And then it just kept kind of.

1389
01:04:32,930 --> 01:04:36,380
S5: Going further because I think I remember saying, well, I

1390
01:04:36,380 --> 01:04:38,390
S5: don't know that she'd ever it would ever occur to

1391
01:04:38,390 --> 01:04:43,970
S5: her to have some kind of. Romantic relationship with him.

1392
01:04:44,480 --> 01:04:47,900
S5: Not to mention that it would be political suicide for

1393
01:04:47,900 --> 01:04:52,730
S5: her at work, you know, but also think. But on

1394
01:04:52,730 --> 01:04:55,100
S5: the other hand, I think she felt like this is

1395
01:04:55,100 --> 01:04:58,910
S5: maybe an asset for me to play because this is

1396
01:04:58,910 --> 01:05:01,160
S5: a Roy who this is a diamond in the rough.

1397
01:05:01,160 --> 01:05:04,230
S5: And I could maybe polish him up and to get

1398
01:05:04,250 --> 01:05:07,880
S5: with my brains and his beauty, we could maybe lead

1399
01:05:07,880 --> 01:05:11,690
S5: the company. And so I think I began to actually

1400
01:05:11,690 --> 01:05:16,760
S5: be invested in it and maybe also a little bit of,

1401
01:05:17,060 --> 01:05:20,990
S5: you know, just being attached to someone in spite of yourself.

1402
01:05:21,710 --> 01:05:24,590
S5: Like because as I've said before, you just kind of

1403
01:05:24,890 --> 01:05:27,170
S5: got under Jerry's skin, I think, a little bit.

1404
01:05:28,380 --> 01:05:30,570
S3: Yeah. And mean I guess that's the interesting thing because

1405
01:05:30,570 --> 01:05:33,030
S3: they seem to have struck such a chord with people that,

1406
01:05:33,180 --> 01:05:35,010
S3: you know, it's like there's this whole, there's this whole

1407
01:05:35,010 --> 01:05:38,130
S3: kind of online movement of Jerry and Roman fans that

1408
01:05:38,130 --> 01:05:41,490
S3: just all they want is this kind of like alternate universe, vegetarian,

1409
01:05:41,490 --> 01:05:44,460
S3: Roman run off together and run waystar and, you know,

1410
01:05:44,460 --> 01:05:45,660
S3: have this beautiful love life.

1411
01:05:46,710 --> 01:05:52,170
S5: It doesn't even fit with the whole universe of succession. Like,

1412
01:05:52,170 --> 01:05:56,190
S5: you know, there's just it's almost like there's nothing sentimental

1413
01:05:56,190 --> 01:06:01,740
S5: in that universe of injustice. Armstrong's creation, he's depicting this

1414
01:06:01,740 --> 01:06:05,370
S5: world where there's no real feeling, sort of, you know,

1415
01:06:05,730 --> 01:06:08,970
S5: so it doesn't really go. But I think there's supposedly

1416
01:06:08,970 --> 01:06:13,140
S5: there's lots of fanfiction and stuff out there which I

1417
01:06:13,140 --> 01:06:15,480
S5: haven't indulged in reading.

1418
01:06:16,590 --> 01:06:18,930
S3: Yeah, maybe that might be one for like a year

1419
01:06:18,930 --> 01:06:20,550
S3: after succession when you've had a bit of space with

1420
01:06:20,550 --> 01:06:22,590
S3: the show, you can you can go back and have

1421
01:06:22,590 --> 01:06:25,530
S3: a look at the, the fan fiction between Jerry and

1422
01:06:25,530 --> 01:06:27,630
S3: Roman and see what you make of it all.

1423
01:06:27,630 --> 01:06:28,890
S8: Yeah, exactly.

1424
01:06:29,070 --> 01:06:31,650
S3: And you know, there has been an especially, I guess

1425
01:06:31,650 --> 01:06:35,100
S3: after this tonight's episode, there's been a lot of chatter

1426
01:06:35,100 --> 01:06:38,340
S3: about Kieran Culkin this season. You know, kind of giving,

1427
01:06:38,640 --> 01:06:41,520
S3: I guess I guess it's been a standout season. You know,

1428
01:06:41,520 --> 01:06:44,370
S3: he's had some big scenes, you know, the scene with

1429
01:06:44,370 --> 01:06:48,510
S3: mats and on the cliff, obviously the eulogy tonight. I

1430
01:06:48,510 --> 01:06:51,570
S3: guess you've shared a lot of close scenes with him

1431
01:06:51,570 --> 01:06:55,110
S3: throughout the duration of the show. During filming. Were you

1432
01:06:55,110 --> 01:06:57,390
S3: even you like. Yeah, he's he's kind of levelled up

1433
01:06:57,390 --> 01:06:57,960
S3: this year.

1434
01:06:58,620 --> 01:07:01,320
S5: Yeah. Well I feel like his performance was always spot on,

1435
01:07:01,320 --> 01:07:04,830
S5: but I feel like they the writers began to really

1436
01:07:04,830 --> 01:07:08,490
S5: give him more depth and he wasn't. You know, Kieran

1437
01:07:08,490 --> 01:07:11,130
S5: has always been very disciplined about, you know, if they've

1438
01:07:11,130 --> 01:07:16,650
S5: given him like five hilarious lines in a scene, he'll like,

1439
01:07:16,650 --> 01:07:18,750
S5: I only need one of these. Like, I don't want

1440
01:07:18,750 --> 01:07:21,330
S5: to just be the class clown, I want to be

1441
01:07:21,330 --> 01:07:27,270
S5: a full dimensional character. And I think he's been wise

1442
01:07:27,270 --> 01:07:31,410
S5: to do that because I think he's plenty entertaining. Like

1443
01:07:31,410 --> 01:07:36,210
S5: he's really unusual and funny and there's something really fresh

1444
01:07:36,360 --> 01:07:39,750
S5: and new about his whole character that he came up with,

1445
01:07:39,750 --> 01:07:43,800
S5: and he's just been a genius and all the improv

1446
01:07:43,800 --> 01:07:46,380
S5: ING and everything that he's done, he's I think the

1447
01:07:46,380 --> 01:07:49,320
S5: person who's added the most of the show through improv,

1448
01:07:49,860 --> 01:07:53,070
S5: if I had to guess. But I do think they've

1449
01:07:53,070 --> 01:07:56,730
S5: really given him a lot of dramatic stuff. I mean,

1450
01:07:56,940 --> 01:08:00,060
S5: episode eight, I only saw I'm not in that episode

1451
01:08:00,060 --> 01:08:04,230
S5: at all and I watched it just the other day.

1452
01:08:05,290 --> 01:08:07,020
S4: That was a very stressful one.

1453
01:08:07,480 --> 01:08:10,180
S5: That was a stressful, stressful watch. It was all.

1454
01:08:10,180 --> 01:08:11,530
S4: Two. It was all too soon.

1455
01:08:12,620 --> 01:08:16,160
S5: Yeah, a little too. I know people in our country

1456
01:08:16,160 --> 01:08:24,310
S5: of PTSD from 2016, so 2017 anyway. Yeah. I mean,

1457
01:08:24,320 --> 01:08:28,280
S5: I feel like. That was on top of feeling for him,

1458
01:08:29,000 --> 01:08:31,610
S5: like an earlier scene. So you could tell that he'd

1459
01:08:31,610 --> 01:08:35,290
S5: he was the most sort of screwed up about. You know, like.

1460
01:08:35,990 --> 01:08:38,870
S5: Is he? Are we sure he's dead? Is he in

1461
01:08:38,870 --> 01:08:41,780
S5: that body bag? In the eulogy, he's like, is he

1462
01:08:41,780 --> 01:08:44,300
S5: in that? Is he in there? Like he's he's almost

1463
01:08:44,300 --> 01:08:47,210
S5: like goes back to being like a small child about

1464
01:08:47,210 --> 01:08:51,290
S5: how grief stricken he is. But. At ATN during the

1465
01:08:51,290 --> 01:08:57,590
S5: election night, it was like this cold, cold, unfeeling side

1466
01:08:57,590 --> 01:09:01,910
S5: of him comes out, you know, when he's like, does

1467
01:09:01,910 --> 01:09:06,980
S5: not care. Like, even even Kendall's a bit concerned, if

1468
01:09:06,979 --> 01:09:11,260
S5: only for his. Daughter and an ex-wife were, you know,

1469
01:09:11,260 --> 01:09:15,620
S5: and she was very concerned. And the people that work

1470
01:09:15,620 --> 01:09:20,599
S5: at ATN are concerned. And then yeah, and he's like.

1471
01:09:21,340 --> 01:09:23,679
S5: Come on. This is what Dad would do, kind of thing.

1472
01:09:23,680 --> 01:09:26,830
S5: Like he had a bit of that really rash, heartless. Yeah.

1473
01:09:27,040 --> 01:09:30,100
S5: Logan thing going on. It was shocking, I thought.

1474
01:09:30,400 --> 01:09:33,280
S3: Yeah, it was really shocking. And I thought because, you know,

1475
01:09:33,280 --> 01:09:35,620
S3: he's always been the kind of almost the most empathetic

1476
01:09:35,620 --> 01:09:37,840
S3: one in a way, even though he is sick and

1477
01:09:37,840 --> 01:09:40,599
S3: twisted and he says the worst possible things, you can

1478
01:09:40,600 --> 01:09:43,780
S3: always tell that he's been like an empath. And then

1479
01:09:43,780 --> 01:09:46,360
S3: that episode, it's almost like ever since Logan died and

1480
01:09:46,360 --> 01:09:48,939
S3: he started to just be like almost, you know, it's

1481
01:09:48,939 --> 01:09:52,290
S3: like he's detached or he's like, disassociating or something. And

1482
01:09:52,300 --> 01:09:55,270
S3: in that episode, he was kind of like, Well, whatever. Like,

1483
01:09:55,270 --> 01:09:58,960
S3: really nothing changes. Even if everything changes, it's all just bullshit.

1484
01:09:58,960 --> 01:10:01,479
S3: And so, like, it doesn't matter what the result is,

1485
01:10:01,479 --> 01:10:04,060
S3: we may as well do whatever benefits of the most.

1486
01:10:04,180 --> 01:10:05,740
S3: And that's kind of like what he goes. And it's

1487
01:10:05,740 --> 01:10:09,160
S3: a very grim dark. And that's been, I guess, the

1488
01:10:09,160 --> 01:10:11,860
S3: general tone of this season. It's felt darker this year.

1489
01:10:13,500 --> 01:10:16,740
S5: Yeah. Much. And you wouldn't think it could get any darker,

1490
01:10:16,740 --> 01:10:19,650
S5: but yeah, it's so intense. I feel like. I feel

1491
01:10:19,650 --> 01:10:22,110
S5: like Jesse once they decided it was the last season,

1492
01:10:22,110 --> 01:10:27,720
S5: he really went into a deep dive of the offspring,

1493
01:10:27,900 --> 01:10:33,300
S5: the siblings psyches. Like he went, it really went he

1494
01:10:33,300 --> 01:10:35,670
S5: really went in and not not only is the plot

1495
01:10:35,670 --> 01:10:41,010
S5: really intense, but they're, you know, just what's happening emotionally

1496
01:10:41,010 --> 01:10:43,740
S5: with all four of them. I mean, Connor Connor very

1497
01:10:43,740 --> 01:10:48,509
S5: much included like that scene when he says something like that,

1498
01:10:48,510 --> 01:10:51,840
S5: there's in a way it's beneficial to to have never

1499
01:10:51,840 --> 01:10:54,840
S5: been loved. You don't want you're missing. Remember? That was

1500
01:10:54,840 --> 01:10:59,650
S5: just heartbreaking. Yeah. Really written. Yeah, the karaoke room.

1501
01:11:00,939 --> 01:11:05,610
S3: And, you know, you mentioned. Kind of like looking back at,

1502
01:11:05,610 --> 01:11:07,860
S3: I guess, the trajectory or the evolution of someone like

1503
01:11:07,860 --> 01:11:09,870
S3: Rome and going from kind of like he was a

1504
01:11:09,870 --> 01:11:12,000
S3: bit of a class clown, like mostly there to just

1505
01:11:12,000 --> 01:11:15,150
S3: undercut scenes with sarcasm and it's very different. And you know,

1506
01:11:15,210 --> 01:11:17,880
S3: I went back and watched the first few episodes of

1507
01:11:17,880 --> 01:11:19,920
S3: the first season a while ago just to kind of

1508
01:11:20,040 --> 01:11:22,799
S3: have a look at it. And so much has changed

1509
01:11:22,800 --> 01:11:25,290
S3: for all the characters. And I guess for you, playing

1510
01:11:25,290 --> 01:11:28,500
S3: someone who's been on the show throughout the duration, do

1511
01:11:28,500 --> 01:11:32,360
S3: you like how do you think Jerry has changed? How

1512
01:11:32,370 --> 01:11:34,200
S3: is she kind of evolved from when we first met

1513
01:11:34,200 --> 01:11:36,630
S3: her to where we find her before the finale?

1514
01:11:37,479 --> 01:11:40,180
S5: Well, you know, interestingly enough, there has been a lot

1515
01:11:40,180 --> 01:11:45,210
S5: of change, but the story is pretty. You know, we've

1516
01:11:45,210 --> 01:11:48,030
S5: had four seasons over about five and a half, six years,

1517
01:11:48,030 --> 01:11:52,320
S5: something like that. So it feels like more time has

1518
01:11:52,320 --> 01:11:55,290
S5: passed in the story then I think is intentional because

1519
01:11:55,290 --> 01:11:59,099
S5: in season one there's like Thanksgiving and then we go

1520
01:11:59,100 --> 01:12:02,910
S5: through the summer where we're in Tuscany and now we're at.

1521
01:12:03,820 --> 01:12:07,719
S5: November 2nd. You know, the the election. So it's almost

1522
01:12:07,720 --> 01:12:12,040
S5: like not quite a year. Which is bizarre or maybe

1523
01:12:12,040 --> 01:12:15,280
S5: about a year. And I mean, there's a lot of

1524
01:12:15,280 --> 01:12:19,750
S5: ways that that's not just how much change they all

1525
01:12:19,750 --> 01:12:23,200
S5: go through, but just many things that aren't that don't

1526
01:12:23,200 --> 01:12:26,020
S5: help you remember that because we you know, we've all

1527
01:12:26,020 --> 01:12:29,170
S5: aged and time has passed and people of different colors

1528
01:12:29,170 --> 01:12:32,650
S5: and haircuts and, you know, that that never worry Jesse

1529
01:12:32,650 --> 01:12:35,320
S5: too much, I don't think. But in truth, it's supposed

1530
01:12:35,320 --> 01:12:38,229
S5: to be a pretty much of a tumble of events

1531
01:12:38,229 --> 01:12:43,210
S5: since Logan gets sick till then. So. But for Jerry,

1532
01:12:43,210 --> 01:12:46,720
S5: I feel like, you know, she, you know, they offer.

1533
01:12:46,720 --> 01:12:51,700
S5: Romanoff asks if she's interested in being interim CEO in

1534
01:12:51,700 --> 01:12:55,210
S5: the very, you know, the second episode and she says

1535
01:12:55,210 --> 01:12:57,700
S5: no I don't want the job makes your head explode.

1536
01:12:58,000 --> 01:13:01,360
S5: And I asked Jesse about that and he was like, Well,

1537
01:13:01,630 --> 01:13:04,330
S5: and also, you don't want it when it's $6 billion

1538
01:13:04,330 --> 01:13:07,060
S5: in debt. Like I think she's kind of it's not

1539
01:13:07,060 --> 01:13:11,180
S5: that she's not ambitious, it's that she's beginning to as

1540
01:13:11,229 --> 01:13:12,910
S5: the closer she gets to the seat of power, I

1541
01:13:12,910 --> 01:13:15,070
S5: think she's like, oh, I don't want the target on

1542
01:13:15,070 --> 01:13:20,920
S5: my back. Like she's very cunningly. I think she is

1543
01:13:20,920 --> 01:13:23,470
S5: really addicted to like she's one of those workaholic people

1544
01:13:23,470 --> 01:13:27,010
S5: who's really addicted to the thrill of the acquisitions and

1545
01:13:27,010 --> 01:13:32,380
S5: the the legal, you know, how to play these situations

1546
01:13:32,380 --> 01:13:37,150
S5: out cleverly. Um, but I think she's gone from maybe

1547
01:13:37,150 --> 01:13:42,010
S5: being ambitious to being slowly more and more jaded about

1548
01:13:42,010 --> 01:13:45,940
S5: the company, but certainly by this season. But like I

1549
01:13:45,939 --> 01:13:47,800
S5: feel like she might have been ambitious at one point

1550
01:13:47,800 --> 01:13:48,219
S5: to be.

1551
01:13:48,220 --> 01:13:49,090
S6: To really run it.

1552
01:13:49,090 --> 01:13:51,250
S5: And she does try to step forward to be the

1553
01:13:51,250 --> 01:13:56,260
S5: interim CEO again with the Mattson deal. But I think

1554
01:13:56,260 --> 01:13:59,440
S5: mostly because she thinks everyone else will bungle it. I

1555
01:13:59,439 --> 01:14:02,570
S5: just don't think she's as ambitious for it anymore. Um,

1556
01:14:02,860 --> 01:14:04,570
S5: and she's and.

1557
01:14:04,570 --> 01:14:05,170
S4: I guess that's.

1558
01:14:05,920 --> 01:14:06,400
S5: Yeah.

1559
01:14:06,670 --> 01:14:09,070
S3: Reflection of real life though, when you're in an organization

1560
01:14:09,070 --> 01:14:11,530
S3: and you kind of been there for a while and

1561
01:14:11,530 --> 01:14:14,979
S3: maybe you've, you get passed over or you see things that,

1562
01:14:15,220 --> 01:14:19,060
S3: you know, eventually they begin to turn you off, you know?

1563
01:14:19,060 --> 01:14:20,830
S3: And there was a time when she probably would have

1564
01:14:21,340 --> 01:14:23,470
S3: given her life for it and done it really well. But,

1565
01:14:23,470 --> 01:14:25,479
S3: you know, those moments pass you by and then when

1566
01:14:25,479 --> 01:14:27,849
S3: it does come around, you've almost got fatigue with it.

1567
01:14:28,630 --> 01:14:31,179
S5: Yeah, exactly. I think she's fatigued with it.

1568
01:14:31,790 --> 01:14:35,000
S3: Yeah. And, you know, I was. I was curious, like.

1569
01:14:35,660 --> 01:14:38,660
S3: We've seen Jerry, you know, who kind of had last

1570
01:14:38,660 --> 01:14:42,680
S3: seen with Roman was essentially when he tries to to

1571
01:14:42,680 --> 01:14:45,260
S3: win her over again, he tries to do his Roman act.

1572
01:14:45,260 --> 01:14:47,870
S3: And she it's a pretty amazing scene, actually. You know,

1573
01:14:47,870 --> 01:14:50,570
S3: she she really, like holds her own. And it's very

1574
01:14:50,570 --> 01:14:53,090
S3: much seeing Jerry in the first time just being like, no,

1575
01:14:53,090 --> 01:14:55,460
S3: I'm not playing this game anymore. And actually, this is

1576
01:14:55,460 --> 01:14:57,710
S3: the very like real world things that I want. Like,

1577
01:14:57,710 --> 01:14:59,630
S3: I want a golden handshake and I'm out of here.

1578
01:14:59,960 --> 01:15:03,410
S3: I mean, I'm certainly hoping and I'm guessing we see

1579
01:15:03,410 --> 01:15:07,339
S3: you in the finale. But, you know, I guess what

1580
01:15:07,340 --> 01:15:09,860
S3: did you make of that last exchange between them And

1581
01:15:09,860 --> 01:15:11,990
S3: were you surprised when you read that that Jerry was

1582
01:15:11,990 --> 01:15:12,889
S3: kind of stepping out?

1583
01:15:14,010 --> 01:15:16,360
S5: I thought it was fantastic that she was very you know,

1584
01:15:16,410 --> 01:15:19,110
S5: they wrote her to be very strong and collected because

1585
01:15:19,110 --> 01:15:22,500
S5: the episode before that, I had this really awful, awful

1586
01:15:22,500 --> 01:15:27,660
S5: fight with Roman, you know, I mean, Jerry did, which

1587
01:15:27,660 --> 01:15:31,830
S5: was horrible. And I think in the interim, she's her

1588
01:15:32,370 --> 01:15:38,500
S5: anger has solidified and cooled off. And she's. You know,

1589
01:15:39,070 --> 01:15:42,009
S5: he's like, I am done with him. I will show him.

1590
01:15:42,010 --> 01:15:46,210
S5: And so I think that's a very strong note to

1591
01:15:46,270 --> 01:15:49,260
S5: end on. But then. We don't really know what the

1592
01:15:49,260 --> 01:15:51,930
S5: end is yet, so I can't really comment, but I

1593
01:15:51,930 --> 01:15:54,720
S5: think she intends it to be the end. Anyway, did

1594
01:15:54,720 --> 01:15:55,850
S5: I answer that question?

1595
01:15:56,280 --> 01:15:56,900
S4: Yeah, you did.

1596
01:15:57,210 --> 01:15:59,780
S3: I've spoken to so many of your cast members and

1597
01:15:59,790 --> 01:16:02,100
S3: each time I try and kind of approach the end

1598
01:16:02,100 --> 01:16:06,540
S3: of the show, everyone gets equally, I guess, nervous that

1599
01:16:06,540 --> 01:16:08,220
S3: they might say the wrong thing, which I understand.

1600
01:16:09,420 --> 01:16:12,479
S5: Well, also, can I tell you, though, I don't know

1601
01:16:12,479 --> 01:16:17,910
S5: exactly because they it's it's a long episode. And I'm

1602
01:16:17,910 --> 01:16:20,910
S5: sure that as long as it might be, there's probably

1603
01:16:20,910 --> 01:16:24,599
S5: lots of still it was probably much longer at some point.

1604
01:16:24,810 --> 01:16:28,559
S5: So it's really hard to know what the storytelling is

1605
01:16:28,560 --> 01:16:31,920
S5: going to be. You've read the draft, but you haven't

1606
01:16:31,920 --> 01:16:34,110
S5: been there. You haven't been there for every moment of filming.

1607
01:16:34,110 --> 01:16:36,810
S5: You've been there for your stuff, and it's really hard

1608
01:16:36,810 --> 01:16:42,660
S5: to like. I remember being in that pre-election night party

1609
01:16:43,410 --> 01:16:48,180
S5: when Tom and Shiv are fighting out on the on the,

1610
01:16:48,180 --> 01:16:52,140
S5: you know, and we're we're inside and you could see

1611
01:16:52,140 --> 01:16:54,930
S5: that they're sort of gesturing and that they're talking and

1612
01:16:54,930 --> 01:16:57,000
S5: you kind of it's kind of curious but like we

1613
01:16:57,000 --> 01:16:58,979
S5: were in there, you know, for hours. It was a

1614
01:16:58,979 --> 01:17:01,800
S5: night shoot, um, being like, what's going on out there?

1615
01:17:01,800 --> 01:17:06,090
S5: Anything or nothing, you know? Yeah. And then you see it.

1616
01:17:06,510 --> 01:17:07,860
S5: And even though you read it and you knew it

1617
01:17:07,860 --> 01:17:11,160
S5: was there in the meantime, you've experienced it sort of

1618
01:17:11,160 --> 01:17:13,590
S5: solely from your character's point of view. So it's just

1619
01:17:13,590 --> 01:17:18,420
S5: really interesting between the editing and just the music and

1620
01:17:18,420 --> 01:17:21,510
S5: the camerawork stuff you couldn't have told when you were

1621
01:17:21,510 --> 01:17:26,900
S5: doing it. Um, it's really fascinating and full of. You know,

1622
01:17:26,900 --> 01:17:29,780
S5: sometimes literally like plot points that are different than what

1623
01:17:29,780 --> 01:17:32,510
S5: you remember. Like you didn't read that last, you know,

1624
01:17:32,510 --> 01:17:35,150
S5: maybe you didn't get sent the last rewrite or whatever.

1625
01:17:35,150 --> 01:17:37,640
S5: But also just the way they edit it, how they

1626
01:17:37,640 --> 01:17:40,910
S5: tell what what you come away with might be different

1627
01:17:40,910 --> 01:17:42,830
S5: than what you thought you came away with when you

1628
01:17:42,830 --> 01:17:44,720
S5: read it. You know what I mean? Like they might

1629
01:17:44,720 --> 01:17:47,689
S5: just sort of emphasize, you know, that wonderful way they

1630
01:17:47,689 --> 01:17:51,380
S5: do the camera work in our show where the cameras

1631
01:17:51,380 --> 01:17:58,139
S5: are moving around catching things. It's almost like. It's almost

1632
01:17:58,140 --> 01:17:59,430
S5: as if it doesn't know what we're going to say.

1633
01:17:59,430 --> 01:18:01,910
S5: So somebody says something interesting in the cameras. Like what?

1634
01:18:01,920 --> 01:18:04,370
S5: You know, like looks back for it, you know, very

1635
01:18:04,500 --> 01:18:08,040
S5: pretty cool. It's reactive. And I think that that is

1636
01:18:08,040 --> 01:18:12,200
S5: part of the storytelling because it helps you. Notice the

1637
01:18:12,620 --> 01:18:17,189
S5: the unexpected things that go by. That's very clever. So anyway,

1638
01:18:17,189 --> 01:18:20,710
S5: I just find, like, I don't really know. I don't

1639
01:18:20,710 --> 01:18:24,210
S5: know all the things that happen in intent. I legit don't.

1640
01:18:24,220 --> 01:18:26,559
S5: So that's one of the reasons I'm. That's why they

1641
01:18:26,560 --> 01:18:29,050
S5: want us to watch when we speak to you. We're

1642
01:18:29,050 --> 01:18:33,900
S5: talking to right now. We're talking about. Episode nine, but

1643
01:18:34,560 --> 01:18:36,630
S5: like they want us to watch ahead if we're going

1644
01:18:36,630 --> 01:18:39,240
S5: to do an interview so that we do know what

1645
01:18:39,240 --> 01:18:42,420
S5: the final cut was like, you know, But I don't

1646
01:18:42,420 --> 01:18:44,610
S5: I haven't seen ten yet know.

1647
01:18:44,610 --> 01:18:47,970
S3: And and that's been again, a recurring theme in all

1648
01:18:47,970 --> 01:18:51,360
S3: the conversations I've done also that like, you know, it

1649
01:18:51,360 --> 01:18:53,820
S3: seems like they're editing and have been working on this

1650
01:18:53,820 --> 01:18:56,880
S3: series up until kind of as late as possible. And

1651
01:18:56,880 --> 01:18:59,700
S3: so things that have really changed in between. So there

1652
01:18:59,700 --> 01:19:03,360
S3: are scenes or cuts that you don't know existed. And

1653
01:19:03,360 --> 01:19:05,160
S3: so it's kind of hard to gauge. But I guess,

1654
01:19:05,430 --> 01:19:09,479
S3: you know, for you, Jerry has become a real fan

1655
01:19:09,479 --> 01:19:13,890
S3: favorite people. The audience has kind of embraced her. And

1656
01:19:14,250 --> 01:19:18,030
S3: I'm curious, have you personally thought about what Jerry's life

1657
01:19:18,030 --> 01:19:20,040
S3: would look like away from the company, or what happens

1658
01:19:20,040 --> 01:19:22,349
S3: to Jerry after the world of succession finishes or what

1659
01:19:22,350 --> 01:19:23,849
S3: you would like for Jerry, I suppose?

1660
01:19:24,450 --> 01:19:27,720
S5: Well, I have a feeling that when we last saw

1661
01:19:27,720 --> 01:19:33,960
S5: Jerry in episode nine, um, she's like. Ready to get

1662
01:19:33,960 --> 01:19:37,910
S5: her settlement. And, you know, strike out for the south

1663
01:19:37,910 --> 01:19:41,090
S5: of France. And she's ready to to sort of take

1664
01:19:41,090 --> 01:19:43,729
S5: a break from it. But I sort of suspect that

1665
01:19:43,729 --> 01:19:47,929
S5: Gerry's not done working. So her personality type is to

1666
01:19:47,930 --> 01:19:53,190
S5: be working and busy. I feel like she may want

1667
01:19:53,189 --> 01:19:55,200
S5: to go on working if she can get a good

1668
01:19:55,200 --> 01:19:56,939
S5: post somewhere.

1669
01:19:57,150 --> 01:19:59,519
S3: Yeah. And just finally, before I let you go, you know,

1670
01:19:59,820 --> 01:20:02,580
S3: the show is so kind of beloved for its writing

1671
01:20:02,580 --> 01:20:05,790
S3: and its lines, and Jerry has had her fair share

1672
01:20:05,790 --> 01:20:09,720
S3: of amazing, amazing lines. Personally, this season, I loved You

1673
01:20:09,720 --> 01:20:11,490
S3: might want to put down that fish taco. You're getting

1674
01:20:11,490 --> 01:20:15,270
S3: your melancholy everywhere. But what? Is there a particular line

1675
01:20:15,270 --> 01:20:18,360
S3: throughout the series or this series or the show in

1676
01:20:18,360 --> 01:20:20,790
S3: general of Jerry's that you just think that was that

1677
01:20:20,790 --> 01:20:22,410
S3: kind of summed her up? That was perfect.

1678
01:20:23,160 --> 01:20:29,160
S5: Yeah, I mean, I could ask that and I can't remember.

1679
01:20:29,160 --> 01:20:31,770
S5: I just feel like there's been so many. I remembered

1680
01:20:31,770 --> 01:20:34,500
S5: one the other day that I thought was when we

1681
01:20:34,500 --> 01:20:39,420
S5: were talking about the vote of no confidence. Attempted coup

1682
01:20:40,260 --> 01:20:43,410
S5: before we attempt it. And it's in season one and

1683
01:20:43,410 --> 01:20:47,260
S5: we're in that coffee shop sort of plotting. And we're

1684
01:20:47,260 --> 01:20:48,970
S5: out on the street. Or maybe we're still in the

1685
01:20:48,970 --> 01:20:52,720
S5: coffee shop and think Roman says something flip. And I say,

1686
01:20:52,720 --> 01:20:55,780
S5: It's not a fucking teddy bears picnic, Roman. Like, that's

1687
01:20:55,780 --> 01:20:59,680
S5: very quintessentially Jerry, you know. But she's a lot of

1688
01:20:59,680 --> 01:21:02,110
S5: things like that, so it's hard to pick, you know,

1689
01:21:02,350 --> 01:21:03,580
S5: the best one.

1690
01:21:03,970 --> 01:21:06,280
S3: No, she's got quite the highlights. Well, look, thank you

1691
01:21:06,280 --> 01:21:08,170
S3: so much for having a chat to me and thanks

1692
01:21:08,170 --> 01:21:09,969
S3: for joining the drop. And yeah, it's been a pleasure

1693
01:21:09,970 --> 01:21:12,010
S3: to watch you and very much looking forward to the finale.

1694
01:21:12,400 --> 01:21:14,050
S5: Thank you. Nice talking to you.

1695
01:21:17,160 --> 01:21:21,260
S1: This succession recap episode of The Drop was produced by Chihuahuan.

1696
01:21:21,270 --> 01:21:24,030
S1: If you enjoyed listening to todays episode of the drop,

1697
01:21:24,030 --> 01:21:26,700
S1: make sure to follow us in your favorite podcast app.

1698
01:21:26,700 --> 01:21:29,220
S1: Give us a review or better yet, share it with

1699
01:21:29,220 --> 01:21:32,100
S1: a friend. I'm Osman Farooqui. See you soon.