1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:01,840 S1: Paul, I've got a pop quiz for you. Do you 2 00:00:01,840 --> 00:00:05,760 S1: know what the difference is between parmesan cheese and parmigiano-reggiano? 3 00:00:06,480 --> 00:00:10,520 S2: I'm not sure I do, but parmigiano-reggiano sounds like something 4 00:00:10,520 --> 00:00:13,600 S2: I'd pay lots more for, because parmesan cheese reminds me 5 00:00:13,600 --> 00:00:16,919 S2: of the Kraft green parmesan that I use on my pasta. 6 00:00:17,200 --> 00:00:19,200 S1: Oh yeah, I actually quite like that stuff. Don't tell. 7 00:00:19,239 --> 00:00:22,120 S1: Don't tell our Italian listeners. What about the difference between 8 00:00:22,120 --> 00:00:24,000 S1: prosecco and sparkling wine? 9 00:00:24,520 --> 00:00:28,160 S2: Both cheap, able to be drunk quickly and less expensive 10 00:00:28,160 --> 00:00:29,000 S2: than champagne. 11 00:00:30,360 --> 00:00:32,520 S1: Um, next time we actually need to do this properly 12 00:00:32,520 --> 00:00:34,960 S1: with a blind taste test. But my final question is, 13 00:00:34,960 --> 00:00:38,000 S1: why are we actually talking about delicious things from Europe 14 00:00:38,000 --> 00:00:38,600 S1: this week? 15 00:00:38,720 --> 00:00:41,200 S2: Well, we've signed a big new trade deal with the EU, 16 00:00:41,240 --> 00:00:44,920 S2: which is the last big block that we don't have 17 00:00:44,960 --> 00:00:46,360 S2: a free trade agreement with. 18 00:00:46,600 --> 00:00:49,760 S1: Yes, that's exactly right. This week, while we were all 19 00:00:49,760 --> 00:00:52,279 S1: freaking out about the oil crisis, and rightly so, the 20 00:00:52,280 --> 00:00:56,000 S1: EU president, Ursula von der Leyen, visited Australia to finalise 21 00:00:56,000 --> 00:01:00,320 S1: a trade deal between us and the EU. So negotiations 22 00:01:00,320 --> 00:01:02,680 S1: for this have been on and off for eight years. 23 00:01:02,680 --> 00:01:04,319 S1: And so it was not a moment too soon that 24 00:01:04,319 --> 00:01:06,759 S1: we signed it. But as we're going to discuss, this 25 00:01:06,760 --> 00:01:11,120 S1: wasn't just about delicious foodstuffs from Europe and indeed Europeans 26 00:01:11,120 --> 00:01:14,520 S1: getting access to our delicious foodstuffs for that matter. It 27 00:01:14,520 --> 00:01:17,399 S1: was also about shoring up our strategic security in a 28 00:01:17,400 --> 00:01:20,920 S1: very uncertain time. I'm Jacqueline Maley, and you're listening to 29 00:01:20,959 --> 00:01:23,720 S1: Inside Politics from the Age and The Sydney Morning Herald. 30 00:01:23,720 --> 00:01:26,680 S1: And I'm joined, as usual, by our chief political correspondent, 31 00:01:26,680 --> 00:01:30,960 S1: Paul Sacher from Canberra, Paul. Ursula von der Leyen, apart 32 00:01:30,959 --> 00:01:34,320 S1: from having exquisite bone structure and sort of sort of 33 00:01:34,360 --> 00:01:38,320 S1: steely European elegance to her, she addressed Parliament on Tuesday 34 00:01:38,319 --> 00:01:40,160 S1: and she was the first female leader to do so. 35 00:01:40,200 --> 00:01:43,080 S1: I read, which I found actually a bit depressing. Can 36 00:01:43,080 --> 00:01:44,960 S1: you set the scene for us? You were in the chamber. 37 00:01:45,160 --> 00:01:47,240 S1: She played to the crowd a little bit with references 38 00:01:47,240 --> 00:01:51,120 S1: to pavlovas and flat whites, but actually her overall message 39 00:01:51,120 --> 00:01:52,080 S1: was pretty grim. 40 00:01:53,040 --> 00:01:57,960 S2: She's extremely European and her, uh, presentation, isn't she? She's 41 00:01:57,960 --> 00:02:00,320 S2: got that kind of pan European accent which you can't 42 00:02:00,320 --> 00:02:01,000 S2: quite pick. 43 00:02:01,200 --> 00:02:07,560 S3: Honourable members and senators, distinguished guests. Indeed, my visit to 44 00:02:07,600 --> 00:02:12,760 S3: Australia this week constitutes many firsts. I am the first 45 00:02:12,760 --> 00:02:16,639 S3: president of the European Commission to visit Australia in more 46 00:02:16,639 --> 00:02:17,760 S3: than a decade. 47 00:02:18,320 --> 00:02:24,279 S2: Has that technocratic air. Former minister in the Christian Democrat 48 00:02:24,280 --> 00:02:26,680 S2: Party and the kind of centre right party in Germany, 49 00:02:26,680 --> 00:02:29,680 S2: which is their version of the Liberal Party? Now the 50 00:02:29,960 --> 00:02:35,480 S2: EU leader and becoming a pretty influential kind of avatar 51 00:02:35,480 --> 00:02:39,400 S2: in this new debate about the rise of middle powers. 52 00:02:39,919 --> 00:02:43,840 S3: I recently said that Europe could no longer be custodian 53 00:02:44,120 --> 00:02:49,480 S3: of the Old World order. This just reflects the reality 54 00:02:49,480 --> 00:02:55,320 S3: of our changing environment. But this does not mean giving 55 00:02:55,320 --> 00:03:00,950 S3: up on who we are, on our values that matters 56 00:03:01,590 --> 00:03:05,670 S3: whether you are Europe or regional power. Like Australia. 57 00:03:06,710 --> 00:03:11,870 S2: Her message was relatively grim. She. In pretty plain language 58 00:03:11,870 --> 00:03:15,030 S2: similar to Canadian Prime Minister Mark Carney, who was also 59 00:03:15,030 --> 00:03:17,030 S2: in Australia a few weeks ago and addressed the House 60 00:03:17,030 --> 00:03:21,109 S2: of Representatives, made the point that countries like Australia, who 61 00:03:21,110 --> 00:03:24,910 S2: are influential but not dominant in their region, need to 62 00:03:24,950 --> 00:03:27,669 S2: band together and try and find complementarity where they can 63 00:03:27,669 --> 00:03:32,150 S2: on defense, on dealing with misinformation, which kind of highlights 64 00:03:32,150 --> 00:03:36,910 S2: the political alignment between the centrist European political class and 65 00:03:36,950 --> 00:03:40,670 S2: the centre left Australian government, who are very focused on 66 00:03:40,710 --> 00:03:44,510 S2: taking on big tech in contrast with the US. She 67 00:03:44,510 --> 00:03:48,350 S2: talked about the difficulty of dealing with the Trump administration, 68 00:03:48,350 --> 00:03:52,510 S2: which has obviously been very harsh towards its NATO allies 69 00:03:52,510 --> 00:03:54,990 S2: in Europe, which which Donald Trump accuses of not pulling 70 00:03:54,990 --> 00:03:58,150 S2: their weight on defense spending, which has forced them to 71 00:03:58,190 --> 00:04:01,670 S2: make long awaited increases in defence spending, as well as 72 00:04:01,670 --> 00:04:06,830 S2: including in Germany, where von der Leyen hails from. And 73 00:04:06,830 --> 00:04:10,390 S2: she also talked about the difficulties in our region. She 74 00:04:10,390 --> 00:04:13,150 S2: made a warning about not getting too close to China 75 00:04:13,150 --> 00:04:16,469 S2: and getting the China question right. So overall, painting a 76 00:04:16,470 --> 00:04:21,669 S2: picture of a more treacherous world where old alliances are 77 00:04:21,670 --> 00:04:24,510 S2: not whole in, and the need for middle powers to 78 00:04:24,550 --> 00:04:28,270 S2: be much more proactive in finding security and complementarity where 79 00:04:28,270 --> 00:04:28,710 S2: they can. 80 00:04:29,070 --> 00:04:31,150 S1: Well, she said, the world that we live in is harsh, 81 00:04:31,190 --> 00:04:33,910 S1: unforgiving and brutal. It feels upside down. What we knew 82 00:04:33,950 --> 00:04:37,070 S1: as certainties are in question. The comfort blanket of yesterday 83 00:04:37,070 --> 00:04:40,350 S1: is ripped away. It is confronting, which I it's kind 84 00:04:40,350 --> 00:04:42,390 S1: of it's really strong rhetoric, but I actually found it 85 00:04:42,390 --> 00:04:45,150 S1: kind of refreshing because it's it's it's grasping the bull 86 00:04:45,190 --> 00:04:48,830 S1: by its horns and it's actually confronting reality, which our 87 00:04:48,830 --> 00:04:51,550 S1: government doesn't seem to like to do so much, or 88 00:04:51,589 --> 00:04:54,390 S1: at least not publicly, as you say. She also talked 89 00:04:54,390 --> 00:04:57,750 S1: about how we can't be overdependent on China, basically. And 90 00:04:57,750 --> 00:05:00,469 S1: she also talked about green energy, didn't she? And sort 91 00:05:00,470 --> 00:05:03,549 S1: of sort of said, and I'm paraphrasing that the oil 92 00:05:03,550 --> 00:05:06,830 S1: shock is sort of unwelcome proof that perhaps the best 93 00:05:06,830 --> 00:05:10,190 S1: energy security is in renewables. So tell us what she 94 00:05:10,190 --> 00:05:12,830 S1: said and how it went down, particularly with the coalition 95 00:05:12,830 --> 00:05:14,070 S1: members in the chamber. 96 00:05:14,430 --> 00:05:16,790 S2: Yeah. To your first point, just briefly on the the 97 00:05:17,029 --> 00:05:19,830 S2: really sharp and honest language, I think you're right. It 98 00:05:19,830 --> 00:05:22,630 S2: does stand in contrast to Australian ministers when they talk 99 00:05:22,630 --> 00:05:24,990 S2: both about the China threat and the difficulty in our 100 00:05:24,990 --> 00:05:28,190 S2: relationship with the US. The Labour approach to these matters 101 00:05:28,190 --> 00:05:32,429 S2: is really to use scripted, very careful, often fence sitting 102 00:05:32,430 --> 00:05:35,830 S2: language on both questions with China. The mantra is agree 103 00:05:35,830 --> 00:05:38,550 S2: where we can and disagree where we must, which is 104 00:05:38,790 --> 00:05:42,430 S2: kind of, you know, a method of avoiding sharp differences 105 00:05:42,430 --> 00:05:45,229 S2: where they obviously exist. And with the US, it's to 106 00:05:45,270 --> 00:05:48,669 S2: try and keep Trump onside to whatever extent they can 107 00:05:48,670 --> 00:05:51,310 S2: to not poke the bear. Australia is in a different 108 00:05:51,310 --> 00:05:55,029 S2: situation to Canada and the EU in some regards, because 109 00:05:55,070 --> 00:05:57,270 S2: we haven't really felt the brunt of a big Trump 110 00:05:57,270 --> 00:06:00,750 S2: assault yet. There's Greenland with Europe and with Canada. Trump 111 00:06:00,750 --> 00:06:04,909 S2: talks about making it the 51st or 52nd. I forget state, 112 00:06:04,910 --> 00:06:06,910 S2: so we're in a slightly different scenario there. But you're 113 00:06:06,910 --> 00:06:09,670 S2: right to say there is a contrast on this question 114 00:06:09,670 --> 00:06:13,390 S2: of von der Leyen's stance on green energy. This has 115 00:06:13,390 --> 00:06:16,470 S2: been a really interesting theme this week. A few days 116 00:06:16,470 --> 00:06:19,670 S2: before or one day before von der Leyen spoke, we 117 00:06:19,670 --> 00:06:24,390 S2: had the head of the International Energy Agency, Fatih Birol, 118 00:06:24,430 --> 00:06:26,310 S2: addressing the Press Club on Monday. This is the guy 119 00:06:26,350 --> 00:06:30,669 S2: kind of leading the global approach to managing the oil crisis, 120 00:06:30,670 --> 00:06:34,270 S2: a really influential Paris based organization, the IEA, and his 121 00:06:34,270 --> 00:06:37,710 S2: point on Monday was that Australia has amazing natural assets 122 00:06:37,710 --> 00:06:40,390 S2: in wind and solar. And the way that you insulate 123 00:06:40,390 --> 00:06:43,750 S2: yourself from global shocks is to build out your renewables capacity, 124 00:06:43,750 --> 00:06:48,229 S2: because they're clearly not affected by global shocks. And von 125 00:06:48,230 --> 00:06:51,349 S2: der Leyen repeated this point on Tuesday in her speech 126 00:06:51,350 --> 00:06:55,820 S2: to the parliament to say, hone in on self-sufficiency. Renewables 127 00:06:55,860 --> 00:06:59,380 S2: is the way to go. This came about halfway through 128 00:06:59,420 --> 00:07:02,020 S2: her speech. To that point, the coalition MPs in the 129 00:07:02,060 --> 00:07:05,140 S2: very packed House of Representatives, where senators go in to 130 00:07:05,180 --> 00:07:08,060 S2: watch as well. The coalition MPs were nodding along to 131 00:07:08,100 --> 00:07:11,860 S2: various things. I think there's some skepticism about EU politics 132 00:07:11,860 --> 00:07:15,580 S2: on the conservative side of Australian politics, but she kept 133 00:07:15,580 --> 00:07:18,059 S2: the whole room pretty perky through some jokes about flat 134 00:07:18,060 --> 00:07:21,380 S2: whites and whether pavlovas were from New Zealand. But when 135 00:07:21,380 --> 00:07:23,260 S2: she made this point about green energy, there were a 136 00:07:23,260 --> 00:07:28,220 S2: fair few eyerolls a dampening in the enthusiasm levels on 137 00:07:28,220 --> 00:07:31,700 S2: the coalition side. So that was an interesting moment. 138 00:07:31,740 --> 00:07:35,220 S1: Yeah, very graceless behaviour, I think when you have an 139 00:07:35,340 --> 00:07:38,540 S1: eminent European guest, I'm speaking to the Parliament, but as 140 00:07:38,580 --> 00:07:40,100 S1: we were sort of we were sort of talking about 141 00:07:40,100 --> 00:07:43,140 S1: this offline and just saying how, um, the best bin 142 00:07:43,140 --> 00:07:45,300 S1: that you could put on it is that it's impractical 143 00:07:45,300 --> 00:07:51,260 S1: for the coalition side of politics to deny the energy 144 00:07:51,380 --> 00:07:55,420 S1: security benefits of renewable energy sources. And at worst, you 145 00:07:55,420 --> 00:07:58,300 S1: could say it's just rank hypocrisy. You know, this this 146 00:07:58,300 --> 00:08:01,100 S1: is a side of politics that has talked so much 147 00:08:01,100 --> 00:08:04,820 S1: and is talking more and more about our resilience and 148 00:08:05,540 --> 00:08:09,380 S1: our need to be self-sufficient and our need for industrial sovereignty, 149 00:08:09,420 --> 00:08:12,820 S1: particularly around our sources of energy. And this is the 150 00:08:12,820 --> 00:08:14,940 S1: one thing that no one else can kind of really 151 00:08:14,940 --> 00:08:17,900 S1: mess with and that global supply chains can't affect is 152 00:08:17,980 --> 00:08:22,500 S1: wind and sun. And the coalition's still dismissing it completely 153 00:08:22,500 --> 00:08:23,300 S1: out of hand. 154 00:08:24,020 --> 00:08:28,100 S2: Yeah. Renewables has turned into and this is not shared 155 00:08:28,100 --> 00:08:32,420 S2: across every member of the coalition. But if you observe 156 00:08:32,420 --> 00:08:35,980 S2: how they've dealt with climate debates in recent years, renewables 157 00:08:35,980 --> 00:08:37,939 S2: has become a bit of a dirty word. And so 158 00:08:37,940 --> 00:08:42,780 S2: even when a hard headed, uh, kind of technocrat such 159 00:08:42,780 --> 00:08:45,300 S2: as von der Leyen makes a common sense argument about 160 00:08:45,340 --> 00:08:48,740 S2: Australia's natural advantages, they're not able to really grapple with 161 00:08:48,740 --> 00:08:52,260 S2: that without a reflexive hostility. And on the on the 162 00:08:52,260 --> 00:08:55,740 S2: labor side, I think this crisis has also exposed some 163 00:08:55,740 --> 00:08:57,939 S2: of the biases on on the left side of politics 164 00:08:57,940 --> 00:09:00,780 S2: in terms of how it views the energy debate. Our 165 00:09:00,780 --> 00:09:06,060 S2: self-sufficiency in terms of oil has been exposed, our natural 166 00:09:06,059 --> 00:09:09,020 S2: resources in terms of how we export coal and gas 167 00:09:09,020 --> 00:09:11,220 S2: to Asia, which we're now trying to leverage with those 168 00:09:11,220 --> 00:09:14,740 S2: Asian nations to ensure a consistent flow of oil, has 169 00:09:14,740 --> 00:09:18,059 S2: put a spotlight on how valuable our fossil fuel industry 170 00:09:18,059 --> 00:09:21,860 S2: is to our national wealth, our national self-sufficiency. Labour has 171 00:09:21,860 --> 00:09:24,939 S2: maintained a pretty balanced approach to fossil fuels. You know, 172 00:09:24,980 --> 00:09:27,339 S2: climate activists would accuse them of being in bed with 173 00:09:27,340 --> 00:09:30,500 S2: the fossil fuel sector. But there was some anti-gas rhetoric 174 00:09:30,500 --> 00:09:32,819 S2: in the early part of the government, which has dropped 175 00:09:32,820 --> 00:09:36,660 S2: away as they've taken a more pragmatic approach. So this 176 00:09:36,660 --> 00:09:40,420 S2: crisis has exposed the denial on in sections of the coalition, 177 00:09:40,580 --> 00:09:45,140 S2: as well as some of the biases and ideological stances 178 00:09:45,140 --> 00:09:46,340 S2: in parts of the left. 179 00:09:46,620 --> 00:09:49,180 S1: I mean, of course, now we're sort of seeing noises 180 00:09:49,179 --> 00:09:51,860 S1: made from the right side of politics that sort of 181 00:09:51,900 --> 00:09:54,900 S1: echoed in various press organs, that we should be drilling 182 00:09:54,900 --> 00:09:58,100 S1: our own oil resources. I think we've only got two 183 00:09:58,220 --> 00:10:00,980 S1: oil refineries left in Australia, and they're saying we should 184 00:10:00,980 --> 00:10:04,700 S1: go back to basics and just dig up our own oil. Mhm. Yeah. 185 00:10:04,700 --> 00:10:07,060 S2: And you even hear that from one of the most 186 00:10:07,059 --> 00:10:11,140 S2: moderate liberals, Andrew Bragg, who's now the environment spokesman. As 187 00:10:11,140 --> 00:10:14,300 S2: of the last reshuffle, he's he's just been getting he's 188 00:10:14,340 --> 00:10:16,620 S2: a kind of productivity guy and a free market guy. 189 00:10:16,620 --> 00:10:19,740 S2: And he's just been reading the not never really taken 190 00:10:19,740 --> 00:10:21,700 S2: any great interest in the environment, but he's just started 191 00:10:21,700 --> 00:10:24,699 S2: reading the big Environmental Act, which Labour has recently reformed. 192 00:10:24,740 --> 00:10:26,700 S2: And he's kind of pulling his hair out thinking these 193 00:10:26,700 --> 00:10:31,100 S2: regulations are so over the top, so burdensome, and we 194 00:10:31,100 --> 00:10:34,620 S2: should be doing much more extraction of our resources to 195 00:10:34,660 --> 00:10:37,940 S2: drive up our national wealth and to help make energy 196 00:10:37,940 --> 00:10:43,580 S2: cheaper and boost productivity through environmental regulations. So yeah, there's 197 00:10:43,820 --> 00:10:45,820 S2: some interesting movements on the coalition side here. 198 00:10:45,860 --> 00:10:48,290 S1: It's a live debate. Let's talk about the trade deal, 199 00:10:48,290 --> 00:10:52,090 S1: the European free trade deal itself. Just briefly at the moment, 200 00:10:52,090 --> 00:10:55,610 S1: we impose a 5% tariff on European imports and that 201 00:10:55,610 --> 00:10:59,050 S1: will be removed. And on our side, 98% of Australian 202 00:10:59,050 --> 00:11:00,850 S1: goods will now be able to be sold in the 203 00:11:00,850 --> 00:11:03,850 S1: European market without any tariffs or duties. So it's a 204 00:11:03,850 --> 00:11:07,650 S1: good deal for Australian consumers. Those European goods will become 205 00:11:07,650 --> 00:11:10,850 S1: cheaper for us. The trade deal, as you said, has 206 00:11:10,850 --> 00:11:13,050 S1: been a long time coming and we very much. I mean, 207 00:11:13,090 --> 00:11:16,330 S1: Ursula von der Leyen basically said, you know, the election 208 00:11:16,370 --> 00:11:20,170 S1: of Donald Trump and him bringing in his tariffs basically 209 00:11:20,210 --> 00:11:22,610 S1: brought everyone back to the table to negotiate. And they 210 00:11:22,610 --> 00:11:24,490 S1: had sort of a much more open attitude to each 211 00:11:24,530 --> 00:11:27,450 S1: other in the new environment. There were some issues with 212 00:11:27,450 --> 00:11:30,730 S1: naming rights. You know, some of the names we treat 213 00:11:30,730 --> 00:11:32,970 S1: as sort of generic are actually trademarked. So they're the 214 00:11:32,970 --> 00:11:35,170 S1: intellectual property of the country or the region that makes them. 215 00:11:35,170 --> 00:11:38,929 S1: So I think we kept our ability to call prosecco prosecco, 216 00:11:38,929 --> 00:11:42,290 S1: at least for a while, parmesan kransky. But producers of 217 00:11:42,290 --> 00:11:45,210 S1: ouzo and parmigiano-reggiano, as we discussed earlier, we'll have to 218 00:11:45,210 --> 00:11:48,890 S1: find other names. Some sectors are unhappy with the deal 219 00:11:49,410 --> 00:11:52,329 S1: and I'm thinking particularly about farmers. So red meat producers, 220 00:11:52,330 --> 00:11:56,250 S1: sheep and beef farmers, dairy farmers are unhappy. Cane growers 221 00:11:56,250 --> 00:11:59,610 S1: are unhappy. The timber industry is unhappy. They all said 222 00:11:59,610 --> 00:12:02,170 S1: it was, you know, a really terrible deal, particularly the 223 00:12:02,210 --> 00:12:05,290 S1: beef and cattle, the beef and sheep guys. Who is 224 00:12:05,290 --> 00:12:06,250 S1: happy with the deal? 225 00:12:07,250 --> 00:12:11,610 S2: Winemakers are happy. And more broadly, if you talk to 226 00:12:11,770 --> 00:12:14,690 S2: trade experts and economists who are thinking about the aggregate 227 00:12:14,690 --> 00:12:18,970 S2: effect of this deal and the the the overall economic impact, 228 00:12:18,970 --> 00:12:22,449 S2: they would say that there will be growth in exports 229 00:12:22,450 --> 00:12:26,330 S2: and more imports across various sectors to varying degrees. And 230 00:12:26,330 --> 00:12:29,610 S2: so there'll be an increase in economic activity in some 231 00:12:29,610 --> 00:12:31,890 S2: boost to GDP growth. I think we should be sceptical 232 00:12:31,890 --> 00:12:34,330 S2: about the numbers the government puts on this, because the shiny, 233 00:12:34,570 --> 00:12:39,929 S2: glossy figures at the front of an FTA handbook often 234 00:12:39,970 --> 00:12:44,250 S2: are often never materialize, and they end up somewhere between, um, 235 00:12:44,250 --> 00:12:48,050 S2: no net effect and the highest numbers. But there is 236 00:12:48,090 --> 00:12:52,130 S2: a sense that this will increase trade, mobility and key 237 00:12:52,170 --> 00:12:55,530 S2: white collar sectors that our farmers will be able to 238 00:12:55,570 --> 00:12:58,970 S2: send more there and will be able to get cheaper 239 00:12:59,010 --> 00:13:02,969 S2: European cars, which had a 5% tariff on them. BMW 240 00:13:02,970 --> 00:13:07,570 S2: and Mercedes and things, as well as cheaper high end EVs. 241 00:13:07,610 --> 00:13:11,570 S2: Because a lot of European EVs fit into the higher 242 00:13:11,570 --> 00:13:14,890 S2: end of the price spectrum, which had luxury car tax 243 00:13:14,890 --> 00:13:17,410 S2: incurred on it, the threshold for that is increased. Some 244 00:13:17,410 --> 00:13:20,050 S2: of these farming groups, and the nationals in particular, are 245 00:13:20,050 --> 00:13:25,370 S2: arguing that the quotas we've been granted for beef exports 246 00:13:25,370 --> 00:13:29,450 S2: into Europe were no better than what we had pre, 247 00:13:29,490 --> 00:13:33,410 S2: I think, 2019, the year is when, in a deal 248 00:13:33,410 --> 00:13:37,450 S2: with the Trump administration, the EU reduced other countries quotas 249 00:13:37,450 --> 00:13:40,810 S2: on red meat to quite small levels and gave the 250 00:13:40,809 --> 00:13:43,850 S2: US a bigger share of the global quota. So Labour 251 00:13:43,850 --> 00:13:47,370 S2: says they've got these red meat quotas up about eight 252 00:13:47,410 --> 00:13:50,850 S2: times what they were. But farming groups argue that they 253 00:13:50,890 --> 00:13:53,970 S2: were at that point, uh, earlier last decade anyway. And 254 00:13:53,970 --> 00:13:55,530 S2: they're calling it one of the worst trade deals of 255 00:13:55,530 --> 00:13:58,530 S2: all time. So, uh, farming groups in the EU are 256 00:13:58,530 --> 00:14:02,290 S2: also really angry because they say that Australia has hormones 257 00:14:02,290 --> 00:14:05,089 S2: and other things pumped into our meat that breached their 258 00:14:05,090 --> 00:14:11,370 S2: own standards. EU farming groups are notoriously provincial and, uh, 259 00:14:11,890 --> 00:14:15,890 S2: politically powerful and politically powerful, particularly particularly in France. So 260 00:14:16,130 --> 00:14:17,450 S2: there's a bit to play out here. It still has 261 00:14:17,450 --> 00:14:19,250 S2: to go through the EU Parliament, which we expect it 262 00:14:19,250 --> 00:14:22,170 S2: will do. But not not not everyone's happy. I think 263 00:14:22,170 --> 00:14:25,050 S2: the symbolism of this deal and what it meant in 264 00:14:25,050 --> 00:14:28,650 S2: terms of, uh, raising up the benefits of free trade 265 00:14:28,650 --> 00:14:32,370 S2: at a time when its value is being discredited in 266 00:14:32,370 --> 00:14:35,410 S2: various parts of the world through populist movements, was in 267 00:14:35,410 --> 00:14:38,210 S2: some ways a more notable part of the week than 268 00:14:38,210 --> 00:14:39,810 S2: the substance of the deal itself. 269 00:14:39,850 --> 00:14:42,170 S1: The fine print. What did the coalition have to say 270 00:14:42,170 --> 00:14:44,840 S1: about the deal? Nationals leader Matt Canavan. I've heard a 271 00:14:44,840 --> 00:14:48,280 S1: bit from him this week. He's been especially outspoken about it. 272 00:14:48,480 --> 00:14:50,720 S1: I feel like Angus Taylor's been I don't know if 273 00:14:50,960 --> 00:14:53,880 S1: maybe I haven't been paying enough attention. Maybe it's because 274 00:14:53,880 --> 00:14:56,640 S1: the ABC's been on strike, which is where I get 275 00:14:56,640 --> 00:14:58,480 S1: a lot of my news. But I haven't heard so 276 00:14:58,520 --> 00:14:59,600 S1: much from Angus Taylor. 277 00:15:00,400 --> 00:15:05,760 S2: Yeah, I think that's a fair observation. I've not either. 278 00:15:05,760 --> 00:15:08,280 S2: I saw him on the today show on Thursday morning, 279 00:15:08,280 --> 00:15:11,200 S2: but I've not seen him out and about hugely over 280 00:15:11,200 --> 00:15:12,640 S2: the last couple of weeks. And I haven't heard his 281 00:15:12,640 --> 00:15:15,200 S2: comments on the trade deal. I think overall there is 282 00:15:15,360 --> 00:15:17,360 S2: I've heard a couple of people in Canberra say this 283 00:15:17,360 --> 00:15:21,680 S2: week that his profile in his first I don't even 284 00:15:21,680 --> 00:15:23,080 S2: know how long he's been in the job now. 285 00:15:23,360 --> 00:15:25,840 S1: How long I'm going to say like 3 or 4 weeks. 286 00:15:26,040 --> 00:15:29,880 S2: Something like that has not been. He hasn't been at 287 00:15:29,880 --> 00:15:33,240 S2: the cutting edge of debate for much of his period 288 00:15:33,240 --> 00:15:36,240 S2: as leader. In the first couple of weeks, uh, listeners 289 00:15:36,240 --> 00:15:38,480 S2: will recall the ISIS brides issue was really at the 290 00:15:38,480 --> 00:15:43,080 S2: forefront of national debate, and Taylor rolled out these quite 291 00:15:43,080 --> 00:15:47,480 S2: pithy and catchy one liners on protecting Australians way of 292 00:15:47,480 --> 00:15:50,640 S2: life and increasing our standard of living, and shutting the 293 00:15:50,640 --> 00:15:51,680 S2: door to people. 294 00:15:51,720 --> 00:15:54,040 S1: Who are talking about shutting the keeping the door shut. 295 00:15:54,080 --> 00:15:57,160 S2: Yeah. Which I think I think resonated in that debate, 296 00:15:57,160 --> 00:15:59,360 S2: especially because there was a new buzz around Angus Taylor. 297 00:15:59,360 --> 00:16:01,680 S2: There was a clarity of message that Sussan Ley was 298 00:16:01,680 --> 00:16:06,800 S2: not able to, um, to bring into her political operations, 299 00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:09,920 S2: but he's kind of drifted out of national debate. Uh, 300 00:16:09,920 --> 00:16:13,120 S2: he's still putting his office together. And I think there 301 00:16:13,120 --> 00:16:15,720 S2: was always a risk with electing Matt Canavan, as well 302 00:16:15,720 --> 00:16:18,240 S2: as putting Tim Wilson into the shadow treasurer job, that 303 00:16:18,240 --> 00:16:21,000 S2: those two men who were quite eye catching, love being 304 00:16:21,000 --> 00:16:24,480 S2: in the media, love the brawl. Uh, were always going 305 00:16:24,480 --> 00:16:28,440 S2: to put pressure on Taylor in terms of the, the 306 00:16:28,640 --> 00:16:31,760 S2: kind of, uh, attention on the coalition. Taylor is a 307 00:16:31,760 --> 00:16:36,480 S2: pretty staid Orthodox figure who doesn't love television interviews. 308 00:16:36,560 --> 00:16:39,120 S1: He prefers doesn't have a colourful turn of phrase. 309 00:16:39,160 --> 00:16:41,600 S2: Yeah, exactly. So let's, let's say let's see how he 310 00:16:41,600 --> 00:16:44,120 S2: goes over coming weeks. But he has taken it back. 311 00:16:44,160 --> 00:16:46,240 S2: He has taken a step back a bit from the. 312 00:16:46,640 --> 00:16:49,360 S1: Just seems like a golden political opportunity to talk about, 313 00:16:49,400 --> 00:16:52,160 S1: you know, the government selling Australian farmers down the river, 314 00:16:52,200 --> 00:16:55,080 S1: so to speak. Um Matt Canavan has said that it's 315 00:16:55,080 --> 00:16:57,440 S1: the worst trade deal in history. 316 00:16:57,560 --> 00:17:00,240 S2: I think he has I'm not sure. I think a 317 00:17:00,240 --> 00:17:01,680 S2: key point to make here is I'm not sure Angus 318 00:17:01,720 --> 00:17:03,520 S2: Taylor would agree that it is the worst deal ever 319 00:17:03,520 --> 00:17:07,760 S2: because as a as a more laissez faire, free, market 320 00:17:07,760 --> 00:17:10,680 S2: focused liberal, I imagine he would look at the net 321 00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:14,000 S2: effect in terms of what this deal does to overall 322 00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:17,440 S2: trade levels, and I suspect he would not be as 323 00:17:17,800 --> 00:17:21,040 S2: keen as Canavan to take some of the loudest voices 324 00:17:21,040 --> 00:17:23,000 S2: in the farming community and make that the crux of 325 00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:25,639 S2: his debate. But at a time when political point scoring is, 326 00:17:25,680 --> 00:17:27,359 S2: is is at a premium, there's a chance that he 327 00:17:27,359 --> 00:17:28,359 S2: does lean into that. 328 00:17:28,480 --> 00:17:30,880 S1: Yeah. It's odd. I mean, his electorate is very pastoral 329 00:17:30,880 --> 00:17:33,320 S1: as well. So I wonder what the people in his 330 00:17:33,320 --> 00:17:36,440 S1: electorate are saying about it. But putting aside the anger 331 00:17:36,440 --> 00:17:40,080 S1: from some producers about this deal, as you said before, 332 00:17:40,080 --> 00:17:43,960 S1: it's a bigger picture. It's about diversifying our international relationships, 333 00:17:44,200 --> 00:17:46,680 S1: sort of making sure we're not too dependent on China, 334 00:17:46,680 --> 00:17:48,960 S1: but also making sure we're not too dependent on the 335 00:17:48,960 --> 00:17:51,840 S1: United States, which is just a really volatile ally now. 336 00:17:52,440 --> 00:17:55,080 S1: They're not a huge trading partner, not as huge as 337 00:17:55,080 --> 00:17:59,040 S1: China is, but strategically, they're obviously the most important. So 338 00:17:59,080 --> 00:18:03,120 S1: I feel like the Albanese government has and indeed the 339 00:18:03,119 --> 00:18:05,480 S1: EU have sort of tried to sell it really as 340 00:18:05,520 --> 00:18:07,640 S1: a as a hedge against risk haven't they. 341 00:18:08,040 --> 00:18:11,040 S2: Yeah. That's right. We don't do heaps of trade with 342 00:18:11,080 --> 00:18:13,880 S2: the EU at the moment. It's it's significant. But it's 343 00:18:13,880 --> 00:18:15,920 S2: not one of our top trading partners I did think. 344 00:18:15,960 --> 00:18:19,280 S2: I do think I saw a prediction perhaps from Don 345 00:18:19,280 --> 00:18:21,360 S2: Farrell speaking. I'm just trying to remember where I saw this. 346 00:18:21,359 --> 00:18:24,000 S2: The trade minister maybe speaking to Latika Bourke in the nightly. 347 00:18:24,160 --> 00:18:28,120 S2: Suggesting that this deal will see the EU overtake the 348 00:18:28,119 --> 00:18:31,639 S2: US in terms of where they rank in our list 349 00:18:31,640 --> 00:18:37,679 S2: of top trading partners. So just another moment to display 350 00:18:37,680 --> 00:18:41,629 S2: to the public. The Australian government's yeah approach to find 351 00:18:41,630 --> 00:18:46,150 S2: as many points of complementarity as possible to work with 352 00:18:46,430 --> 00:18:51,070 S2: like minded allies wherever we can, because those elephants in 353 00:18:51,070 --> 00:18:54,590 S2: the room, the US, which is, um, you know, showing 354 00:18:54,630 --> 00:18:57,670 S2: no regard for the old rules around free trade. And China, 355 00:18:57,869 --> 00:19:01,750 S2: which uses 3 to 5% of its GDP each year 356 00:19:01,750 --> 00:19:04,350 S2: to pump subsidies into its own industries, which have the 357 00:19:04,350 --> 00:19:08,070 S2: effect of hollowing out. Ours are still standing there. Those 358 00:19:08,070 --> 00:19:09,429 S2: elephants in the room. And so we've got to do 359 00:19:09,430 --> 00:19:11,510 S2: what we can to to, to hedge and diversify, as 360 00:19:11,510 --> 00:19:11,910 S2: you say. 361 00:19:12,190 --> 00:19:14,750 S1: Yeah. And credit where it's due. The government has actually 362 00:19:14,790 --> 00:19:16,709 S1: this this government has actually pushed through a lot of 363 00:19:16,710 --> 00:19:20,429 S1: those smaller trade deals or trade deals with smaller trading partners. 364 00:19:20,910 --> 00:19:22,990 S1: Just want to touch briefly on, you know, we're talking 365 00:19:22,990 --> 00:19:25,189 S1: about right wing politics before. I want to touch briefly 366 00:19:25,190 --> 00:19:28,469 S1: on the South Australian election, which happened, of course, last weekend. 367 00:19:28,670 --> 00:19:32,150 S1: Labor's Peter Malinauskas won a resounding victory, which was expected. 368 00:19:32,150 --> 00:19:34,670 S1: But the real story for most pundits was the One 369 00:19:34,670 --> 00:19:38,189 S1: Nation vote. It was extraordinary. They won about 22% of 370 00:19:38,190 --> 00:19:42,109 S1: the vote, which is an increase of 19% on the 371 00:19:42,109 --> 00:19:46,430 S1: vote at the last election. And the Liberals polled about 19%. 372 00:19:46,430 --> 00:19:50,030 S1: So they had a swing against them of 16 or 17%. 373 00:19:50,390 --> 00:19:53,110 S1: Pretty much all of the people who voted One Nation 374 00:19:53,150 --> 00:19:56,190 S1: were former Liberal voters. I just feel like all the 375 00:19:56,350 --> 00:20:00,670 S1: adjectives we can come up with catastrophic, devastating are not 376 00:20:00,670 --> 00:20:04,110 S1: sufficient to describe this phenomenon for the Liberal Party. 377 00:20:05,350 --> 00:20:09,430 S2: Yeah, sometimes it's difficult to put words to genuinely kind 378 00:20:09,430 --> 00:20:11,910 S2: of tectonic shifts that are occurring when history is actually 379 00:20:11,910 --> 00:20:15,470 S2: unfolding in front of your eyes. Yeah, it anyone who says, 380 00:20:15,510 --> 00:20:17,270 S2: and I have heard some MPs say, oh, One Nation 381 00:20:17,270 --> 00:20:19,470 S2: was always going to rise. After Dutton left the show 382 00:20:19,470 --> 00:20:22,110 S2: and Sussan Ley tacked towards the centre, we got rid 383 00:20:22,150 --> 00:20:24,270 S2: of all our policies under Sussan Ley, so there was 384 00:20:24,270 --> 00:20:26,950 S2: a gap there. I think anyone trying to say that 385 00:20:26,950 --> 00:20:29,390 S2: they expected One Nation to rise into the 20s in 386 00:20:29,390 --> 00:20:33,629 S2: an actual election is is putting a post-hoc rationalization on 387 00:20:33,630 --> 00:20:36,429 S2: it and try and make themselves sound smart? Nobody expected this. 388 00:20:36,990 --> 00:20:38,669 S1: There's nothing wrong with that. We do that all the 389 00:20:38,670 --> 00:20:39,950 S1: time on this podcast. 390 00:20:40,310 --> 00:20:42,790 S2: I'm. I'm actually never wrong, Jack, I don't know about you. 391 00:20:43,670 --> 00:20:45,510 S1: We're going to fact check that later. But anyway. 392 00:20:45,550 --> 00:20:47,790 S2: No, I had no idea this was coming. And anyone 393 00:20:47,790 --> 00:20:50,710 S2: who says they did is, is, is kidding you. But 394 00:20:50,750 --> 00:20:54,430 S2: what this South Australian result shows, I think, is that firstly, 395 00:20:54,430 --> 00:20:57,590 S2: the polling numbers are real. It does translate into votes 396 00:20:57,590 --> 00:21:00,110 S2: on election day. So that hope that liberals had that 397 00:21:00,109 --> 00:21:03,709 S2: these numbers were just what people said to a pollster 398 00:21:03,710 --> 00:21:06,350 S2: on the phone. We know that's not true. It might 399 00:21:06,350 --> 00:21:09,670 S2: still be the case that these numbers are based on 400 00:21:09,950 --> 00:21:14,070 S2: a national vibe and a buzz around a new disruptor, 401 00:21:14,070 --> 00:21:17,229 S2: which is giving the major parties a middle finger after 402 00:21:17,230 --> 00:21:21,510 S2: years of poor governance at national and state levels and 403 00:21:22,070 --> 00:21:26,109 S2: almost 15 years of living standards kind of flatlining. So 404 00:21:26,150 --> 00:21:29,590 S2: I think we'll see see over coming months and years, really, 405 00:21:30,310 --> 00:21:33,150 S2: scrutiny will grow on one nation at a federal level 406 00:21:33,150 --> 00:21:35,270 S2: where there's a much bigger media spotlight than at a 407 00:21:35,270 --> 00:21:37,550 S2: state level, where there was really nothing to scrutinize. In 408 00:21:37,550 --> 00:21:40,310 S2: South Australia, they didn't have an incumbent leader. There were 409 00:21:40,310 --> 00:21:44,310 S2: no policies. The Liberal Party was totally dishevelled in South Australia. 410 00:21:44,350 --> 00:21:47,190 S2: The result was known for months in advance, and so 411 00:21:47,190 --> 00:21:50,590 S2: a conservative voter could switch out to one nation knowing 412 00:21:50,630 --> 00:21:53,429 S2: they had no real impact on the result, because what. 413 00:21:53,430 --> 00:21:53,909 S1: Was going on. 414 00:21:53,910 --> 00:21:55,670 S2: Was going to win. So it was a free protest 415 00:21:55,670 --> 00:21:56,670 S2: vote in some ways. 416 00:21:56,710 --> 00:21:57,030 S1: Yeah. 417 00:21:57,070 --> 00:21:58,629 S2: So having said all that, there are some there are 418 00:21:58,630 --> 00:22:01,710 S2: some reasons for liberals to think that the national spotlight 419 00:22:01,710 --> 00:22:05,230 S2: will get the Liberals back in the game. Having said that, 420 00:22:05,230 --> 00:22:09,110 S2: this is also proof that, oh, maybe not proof. This 421 00:22:09,109 --> 00:22:11,910 S2: is also a sign that there are voters out there 422 00:22:11,910 --> 00:22:16,350 S2: who don't really care that One Nation doesn't offer solutions, 423 00:22:16,350 --> 00:22:19,630 S2: that they're not a credible governing alternative, that they are 424 00:22:19,630 --> 00:22:21,670 S2: so fed up with. The coalition, have such a lack 425 00:22:21,670 --> 00:22:24,910 S2: of confidence in the coalition's ability to project a message 426 00:22:24,910 --> 00:22:28,590 S2: that that affects their lives and creates a vision for 427 00:22:28,590 --> 00:22:31,629 S2: a better country, that they're actually willing to vote for 428 00:22:31,910 --> 00:22:34,420 S2: a party that doesn't have much to say about how 429 00:22:34,420 --> 00:22:37,179 S2: it would govern, because they're the change option. They're the 430 00:22:37,180 --> 00:22:40,500 S2: option that says the system's no good. We're just going 431 00:22:40,540 --> 00:22:43,260 S2: to shake the place up. And perhaps those voters don't 432 00:22:43,260 --> 00:22:45,020 S2: come back to the Liberals en masse. That's the big 433 00:22:45,020 --> 00:22:47,460 S2: risk for the libs that not only are they voted, 434 00:22:47,820 --> 00:22:50,420 S2: they're not even voted against at election time. They're just 435 00:22:50,420 --> 00:22:53,260 S2: looked over. They're seen as an irrelevance. That's the big risk. 436 00:22:53,300 --> 00:22:55,740 S1: I mean, when you talk about people having a lot 437 00:22:55,740 --> 00:22:59,260 S1: of antipathy towards the liberals, I feel like actually antipathy 438 00:22:59,260 --> 00:23:01,740 S1: would almost be good at this point because that is 439 00:23:01,740 --> 00:23:03,980 S1: some strength of feeling at the moment. I feel like 440 00:23:03,980 --> 00:23:07,419 S1: it's an indifference, like they're becoming sort of irrelevant because 441 00:23:07,780 --> 00:23:11,619 S1: they've created a vacuum around themselves. When you talk about 442 00:23:11,660 --> 00:23:14,939 S1: the sort of motivations, I suppose, of One Nation voters 443 00:23:15,780 --> 00:23:18,580 S1: at the moment and how it translates at the moment, 444 00:23:18,580 --> 00:23:21,580 S1: I think even with that huge swing to One Nation 445 00:23:21,580 --> 00:23:24,260 S1: in South Australia, I think at best they might win 446 00:23:24,260 --> 00:23:26,740 S1: four seats in the lower house, right? So it's not 447 00:23:26,740 --> 00:23:30,260 S1: a huge amount for that percentage of the vote. Doesn't 448 00:23:30,300 --> 00:23:34,100 S1: the One Nation Sort of swing to one nation, just 449 00:23:34,100 --> 00:23:37,100 S1: decimate the Liberal Party, but actually help to return labor governments. 450 00:23:37,100 --> 00:23:39,700 S1: Like if we saw that, if we saw that replicated 451 00:23:39,700 --> 00:23:42,740 S1: in in Victoria at the state election next year, this year, 452 00:23:42,740 --> 00:23:45,780 S1: or in New South Wales at the state election next year. Yeah, 453 00:23:46,180 --> 00:23:48,260 S1: they're just going to return the labor premiers, aren't they? 454 00:23:48,900 --> 00:23:53,100 S2: You're 100% right. There is a total delusion in some parts. 455 00:23:53,140 --> 00:23:56,100 S2: Parts of the sky after dark crowd, some in the 456 00:23:56,100 --> 00:23:58,780 S2: coalition who are on the right, who believe that there 457 00:23:58,780 --> 00:24:02,220 S2: could be some sort of benefit to the overall centre right. 458 00:24:02,260 --> 00:24:05,379 S2: If one nation rises and this populist threat kind of 459 00:24:05,619 --> 00:24:08,740 S2: enters the political fray, that would only be the case 460 00:24:08,740 --> 00:24:11,300 S2: if one nation rose to such an extent that it 461 00:24:11,300 --> 00:24:13,780 S2: started to win seats off labor. We saw in South 462 00:24:13,780 --> 00:24:16,580 S2: Australia that labor lost support in some working class areas 463 00:24:16,580 --> 00:24:19,420 S2: to one nation, quite a significant amount, but they still 464 00:24:19,460 --> 00:24:22,140 S2: held almost all the seats. I think the One Nation 465 00:24:22,140 --> 00:24:27,179 S2: might win a couple, and they have a enormous supermajority 466 00:24:27,340 --> 00:24:30,420 S2: in the Legislative Assembly at a federal level. The polling 467 00:24:30,420 --> 00:24:33,460 S2: also suggests that almost all of One Nation's support is 468 00:24:33,460 --> 00:24:36,420 S2: coming from previous coalition voters. They've started to eat into 469 00:24:36,420 --> 00:24:38,659 S2: the labor primary vote a little bit, but labor, if 470 00:24:38,660 --> 00:24:42,219 S2: an election were held today, would absolutely. Uh, I was 471 00:24:42,220 --> 00:24:44,139 S2: going to say shit it in. I shouldn't use language 472 00:24:44,140 --> 00:24:47,780 S2: like that. They would, they would, they would absolutely dominate. 473 00:24:48,020 --> 00:24:52,260 S2: And so this idea of a coalition between one nation and, uh, 474 00:24:52,260 --> 00:24:56,100 S2: and the coalition which Hanson has floated herself is folly. 475 00:24:56,100 --> 00:24:58,580 S2: And the hard heads in the coalition know this. And 476 00:24:58,580 --> 00:25:00,619 S2: they are in the process of coming up with a 477 00:25:00,619 --> 00:25:05,820 S2: plan to try and degrade Hanson's credibility, to elevate the 478 00:25:05,940 --> 00:25:09,540 S2: excesses of Barnaby Joyce and his, uh, his character flaws, 479 00:25:09,580 --> 00:25:13,260 S2: to try and expose their policy agenda because they now 480 00:25:13,260 --> 00:25:16,180 S2: have two fights on their hand, they need to consolidate 481 00:25:16,180 --> 00:25:18,580 S2: the centre right to ensure that they're not decimated like 482 00:25:18,580 --> 00:25:21,300 S2: they were in South Australia. And then after they do that, 483 00:25:21,300 --> 00:25:23,620 S2: should they succeed, which is a tough ask to try 484 00:25:23,619 --> 00:25:25,260 S2: and beat labor. Not easy. 485 00:25:25,380 --> 00:25:27,500 S1: I feel like being in the process of coming up 486 00:25:27,500 --> 00:25:29,940 S1: with a plan. Guys, you needed a plan yesterday. You 487 00:25:29,940 --> 00:25:32,219 S1: needed a plan last year anyway. Um. 488 00:25:32,460 --> 00:25:34,220 S2: They did. They were too busy trying to. Trying to 489 00:25:34,260 --> 00:25:35,859 S2: deal with the Susan Lee. Problem. 490 00:25:37,540 --> 00:25:40,700 S1: Um, just quickly to just catch us up quickly on 491 00:25:40,700 --> 00:25:42,460 S1: where we're at with the fuel crisis because I think 492 00:25:42,460 --> 00:25:44,540 S1: there's a few movements on in national cabinet. 493 00:25:44,859 --> 00:25:48,580 S2: Yeah. So there'll be a national cabinet meeting on Monday, uh, 494 00:25:48,580 --> 00:25:50,980 S2: which is will be about two weeks after the first 495 00:25:50,980 --> 00:25:54,619 S2: national cabinet meeting met to address this oil shortage. The 496 00:25:54,619 --> 00:25:58,620 S2: Prime Minister made a comment on Saturday last week, when 497 00:25:58,660 --> 00:26:01,540 S2: asked about fuel rationing and demand side measures, like working 498 00:26:01,540 --> 00:26:06,340 S2: from home and encouraging other policies to help people conserve fuel. 499 00:26:06,540 --> 00:26:09,340 S2: He had a very reflexive response. He said, well, that's 500 00:26:09,340 --> 00:26:11,300 S2: a matter for the states and territories. It's not a 501 00:26:11,300 --> 00:26:12,700 S2: matter for me. Don't ask me about that. 502 00:26:12,700 --> 00:26:14,540 S1: That didn't work out so well for Scott Morrison in 503 00:26:14,540 --> 00:26:15,379 S1: the pandemic. 504 00:26:15,420 --> 00:26:17,780 S2: It didn't. And some of some of his colleagues are 505 00:26:17,780 --> 00:26:19,699 S2: well aware of that political risk. They want him to 506 00:26:19,700 --> 00:26:22,420 S2: be more involved, just like state premiers do. And so 507 00:26:22,460 --> 00:26:24,459 S2: throughout the course of this week, there have been conversations 508 00:26:24,460 --> 00:26:28,380 S2: around the at cabinet level about creating a more nationally 509 00:26:28,530 --> 00:26:33,210 S2: consistent plan around demand side measures. You know, soft encouragements 510 00:26:33,210 --> 00:26:35,930 S2: to nudge people to use less fuel. We expect that 511 00:26:35,930 --> 00:26:39,210 S2: will be talked about at that Monday meeting. We're not 512 00:26:39,210 --> 00:26:42,370 S2: quite we don't know if we're quite there yet to 513 00:26:42,410 --> 00:26:45,449 S2: announce those suggestions or recommendations or whatever you call them. 514 00:26:45,650 --> 00:26:47,969 S2: But the government is moving in that direction and the 515 00:26:47,970 --> 00:26:50,850 S2: expectation that they will be required, and the prime ministers 516 00:26:50,890 --> 00:26:53,730 S2: needed to be kind of kicked, kicked in the backside 517 00:26:53,730 --> 00:26:55,490 S2: a bit by some of his colleagues to get there. 518 00:26:55,530 --> 00:26:58,970 S1: Right. Coaxed gently along the road. So basically, we're talking 519 00:26:58,970 --> 00:27:02,610 S1: about voluntary measures at this point as opposed to anything, 520 00:27:02,650 --> 00:27:04,530 S1: you know, any sort of measures that are imposed on 521 00:27:04,530 --> 00:27:07,770 S1: us like rationing. Um, I think we're away from that yet. 522 00:27:07,770 --> 00:27:10,850 S1: But then who the hell knows? Paul. That's all we've 523 00:27:10,850 --> 00:27:14,090 S1: got time for. Let's do it again next week. With 524 00:27:14,130 --> 00:27:18,850 S1: a prosecco in hand and a nice hunk of parmigiano-reggiano 525 00:27:18,970 --> 00:27:19,730 S1: in the other. 526 00:27:20,090 --> 00:27:22,250 S2: I can't wait, and maybe a. Oh, what was the other? 527 00:27:22,290 --> 00:27:23,810 S2: What was that cheese anyway? 528 00:27:23,850 --> 00:27:27,649 S1: I mean, there's feta. There's um you know, there's Gruyere, 529 00:27:27,930 --> 00:27:30,090 S1: which I think we're not allowed to call Gruyere anymore 530 00:27:30,090 --> 00:27:32,530 S1: if we produce it in Australia. But, you know, on 531 00:27:32,530 --> 00:27:34,889 S1: this podcast we call cheeses by whatever we want to 532 00:27:34,890 --> 00:27:35,610 S1: call them, right? 533 00:27:36,330 --> 00:27:38,130 S2: Maybe a bit a hunk of Munster. 534 00:27:39,170 --> 00:27:40,290 S1: What's that? 535 00:27:40,450 --> 00:27:42,730 S2: I think this is like an Irish cheese that was 536 00:27:42,730 --> 00:27:45,369 S2: part of this. Anyway, let's clean up these jokes because 537 00:27:45,369 --> 00:27:45,930 S2: they're bad. 538 00:27:47,170 --> 00:27:49,090 S1: I could talk about cheese all afternoon, but we've both 539 00:27:49,090 --> 00:27:50,250 S1: got work to do. Okay. 540 00:27:50,690 --> 00:27:51,090 S2: All right. 541 00:27:51,130 --> 00:27:56,929 S1: Great to see you. You can read all of our 542 00:27:56,930 --> 00:28:03,090 S1: political news on our websites, The Age or smh.com.au. Today's 543 00:28:03,090 --> 00:28:06,490 S1: episode was produced by Kai Wong with help from Debbie Harrington. 544 00:28:07,210 --> 00:28:10,169 S1: Our executive producer is Tammy Mills, and our podcasts are 545 00:28:10,170 --> 00:28:14,369 S1: overseen by Lisa Muxworthy and Tom McKendrick. Before you go, 546 00:28:14,369 --> 00:28:17,250 S1: follow Inside Politics and leave a review for us on 547 00:28:17,250 --> 00:28:20,730 S1: Apple or Spotify. I'm Jacqueline Maley, thank you for listening.