Speaker 1: Okay, welcome to the show. Thanks for downloading the podcast.
Speaker 1: This is Better Than Yesterday. Useful tools and useful conversations
Speaker 1: to make your day to day better than yesterday, every
Speaker 1: single week since twenty thirteen.
Speaker 2: My name Joshia Ginzburg. I'm very glad you're here.
Speaker 1: Ten years ago now, when I was struggling with my
Speaker 1: mental health, I really needed to be able to read
Speaker 1: a book that would really kind of lay out a
Speaker 1: step by step way that I could think about the
Speaker 1: problems that I was facing. And I couldn't find a
Speaker 1: book that was like the book that I needed. So
Speaker 1: I wrote one with the help of an eminent psychologist
Speaker 1: who specializes in act or accepting commitment therapy and with
Speaker 1: brilliant illustrations boys Truthless, also know as Campbell Walker. It's
Speaker 1: called So What Now What? And in this book, I
Speaker 1: lay out step by step the very thinking tools that
Speaker 1: I found to be nothing short of life changing. It's
Speaker 1: a tool, really, it's a book, yes, but it's a tool,
Speaker 1: a tool to use when you or someone your love
Speaker 1: is kind of struggling and nothing seems to you make
Speaker 1: any better, and in fact things are just getting worse.
Speaker 1: If you like this podcast, if this podcast brings you value.
Speaker 1: The greatest way you could probably repay me at all
Speaker 1: is to pre order that book. You can find a
Speaker 1: link in the show notes pre order this book. It
Speaker 1: sends a massive signal to the publishers of the book
Speaker 1: and the people that order books and stockshelves that this
Speaker 1: is a book worth getting behind, and I'd really appreciate it.
Speaker 1: If you do order the book, email me a screenshot
Speaker 1: of when you bought it. Send Asher email at gmail
Speaker 1: dot com and I'll send you something to say a big,
Speaker 1: big thank you. Now, the book does offer us some advice,
Speaker 1: but it is like any advice, it's up to you
Speaker 1: to do something with it. There's a piece of advice
Speaker 1: that I've heard a lot. I'm sure you have to
Speaker 1: just be yourself. Seems simple enough, doesn't that? But is
Speaker 1: it really? Today's conversation is all about authenticity, what it
Speaker 1: really is, how we can find it for ourselves, and
Speaker 1: why it's kind of vital that we do find that authenticity.
Speaker 2: There's also a fair bit.
Speaker 1: In there about dancing to get the worries away, but
Speaker 1: we'll get to that right. Just before we get to
Speaker 1: my guest today, I forgot to mention that the next
Speaker 1: live show if you want to come check out the
Speaker 1: live show on the sixth of the July. We're at
Speaker 1: the Factory Theater in Merrickville with Story Club. We do
Speaker 1: this storytelling show every single month. Joining me is Marley Silva,
Speaker 1: Merrick Watts, Phil O'Neill, Ugly, Phil Nadia Townshend, Zoey Norton Lodge.
Speaker 1: The theme We're all telling stories long and the theme
Speaker 1: everybody needs good neighbors linkers in the show notes.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: So my guest today, Kat John is her name. She
Speaker 1: is fantastic. She's an authenticity coach, She's a speaker, she
Speaker 1: hosts a podcast.
Speaker 2: Called Raw, Real and Relatable.
Speaker 1: She's the author of the brand new book Authentic Coming
Speaker 1: Home to Your True Self. She do' mind having a
Speaker 1: bit of a zero fux given boogie on the socials
Speaker 1: either And I actually put together a playlist that you'll
Speaker 1: hear is talking about music and I'm put together an
Speaker 1: entire playlist you'll find link in the show notes. Because
Speaker 1: what I do love about Cat is she really devotes
Speaker 1: herself to sharing the message of how important it is
Speaker 1: to be authentic and helping people to live that way
Speaker 1: every single day. And she does this so partly because
Speaker 1: she has some very painful firsthand experience in what happens
Speaker 1: when you don't live authentically and where that can lead
Speaker 1: you to Cat is it delight to be around. She
Speaker 1: radiates energy and positivity. You're going to love spending time
Speaker 1: with it, just like I did enjoy this conversation with Cat.
Speaker 2: John, thank you for coming pleasure.
Speaker 1: I'm grateful, rightful you came, and you must be thrilled
Speaker 1: to have a.
Speaker 2: Book under your belt. That done. It's quite the thing.
Speaker 2: You don't write it once, do you?
Speaker 3: You don't write it once, No.
Speaker 1: You got like fives you end up writing it, I reckon.
Speaker 4: There were three passes in that. They were like, yeah,
Speaker 4: it's sort of there, nah, sort.
Speaker 3: Of there nuh, And then it took me.
Speaker 4: The third would go, we're actually put a mic on,
Speaker 4: and I dictated. I just started sharing what I would
Speaker 4: usually share, what I was trying to type out, but
Speaker 4: I was trying to make it too sophisticated. I was
Speaker 4: trying to make it sound smart. I was in my
Speaker 4: head about the penguin people. I've got to make it
Speaker 4: cool for the penguin people. I'm like, who the hell
Speaker 4: are these penguin people? So as soon as I put
Speaker 4: the mic on and dictated, I was like, that's what
Speaker 4: I look like.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah on paper?
Speaker 3: Then it was good, right yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: It's fatiful.
Speaker 1: It's tricky to be able to I mean, words are great.
Speaker 1: Our youngest is learning how to read them right now.
Speaker 1: They're very good for communicating ideas. But sometimes it can
Speaker 1: become a bit of a barrier. So it's wonderful we
Speaker 1: have tools like that, definitely, because somebody like you might
Speaker 1: not have been able to put that book out twenty
Speaker 1: years ago.
Speaker 2: Without that tool. Correct, it's pretty good.
Speaker 1: We are going to probably talk a bit about this
Speaker 1: because it is your bread and butter. If we were
Speaker 1: going to talk about being authentic, like what is for you?
Speaker 1: You talk about authenticity? How do you as a concept?
Speaker 1: How do you define it?
Speaker 4: Yeah? I mean, look, it's a big concept and I
Speaker 4: think it gets thrown around a lot at the minute.
Speaker 4: It's kind of like the cool word authentic leadership or
Speaker 4: be authentic or be real or whatever it may be.
Speaker 4: You do you, you do you boo? I think is
Speaker 4: a hashtag that's been out for a bit, But I guess,
Speaker 4: to me, to me, what it is it's to be
Speaker 4: relaxed in yourself, to be at ease within yourself. And
Speaker 4: I certainly know what it feels like to not feel
Speaker 4: relaxed in myself and be at ease with myself and
Speaker 4: walk into rooms and think I've got to be like this,
Speaker 4: I've got to be like that. My gut is like tight,
Speaker 4: my jaw is clenched, I'm holding my breath and it's like, hey,
Speaker 4: why am I doing that? Why do I think that
Speaker 4: I need to I don't know, put on some kind
Speaker 4: of unnatural persona that might get me more likes, that
Speaker 4: might get me more fit ins, that might get me
Speaker 4: chosen here there or wherever. And I get that sometimes
Speaker 4: we need our persona and our personality to get places
Speaker 4: in life. But to me, authenticity is it's like it's
Speaker 4: taken a seat in yourself and going.
Speaker 3: That feels good?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 1: What does it? Let's, for example, put it in a
Speaker 1: work context. What does being authentic like? What is showing
Speaker 1: up and being authentic at work look like?
Speaker 4: Okay, I'll give you an example. So this morning I
Speaker 4: had a speaking engagement and typically before we speaking.
Speaker 1: That corporate money you go get it. You don't make
Speaker 1: money selling books in Australia you make money. Talk about
Speaker 1: books in Australia.
Speaker 3: This is true.
Speaker 2: Oh tell me about it. My second book coming out August.
Speaker 3: This is true, true fact.
Speaker 4: So typically, before speaking engagements, this little part of me,
Speaker 4: which I call the ego, the part that keeps that
Speaker 4: tries to keep me separate from myself, my relaxed, at ease,
Speaker 4: authentic self. Oh my gosh, it's just like you better
Speaker 4: be funny, you better make them laugh, you better be intelligent,
Speaker 4: you better know your stuff, you better be even coming here,
Speaker 4: even going to whatever other type of speaking engagement that
Speaker 4: I've been to, there is this something there that says
Speaker 4: you have to be someone that you're not because who
Speaker 4: you are and what you've got to share just ain't enough, right,
Speaker 4: just ain't enough. So that might mean if I listen
Speaker 4: to that, then I'm going to try and be funny
Speaker 4: and I'm going to look for people laughing, and if
Speaker 4: they don't laugh, I'm going to feel shit about myself. Right,
Speaker 4: I'm going to feel like I've failed. I'm going to
Speaker 4: feel like I haven't done my job. So okay, let
Speaker 4: me be the smart one. And if I try and
Speaker 4: reel off some kind of fact that I'm pulling out
Speaker 4: of something I've googled from however long ago. And if
Speaker 4: I get someone who raises their eyebrows and it's like
Speaker 4: and then write something, I'll think tick.
Speaker 3: Right. So then I'll keep putting into my.
Speaker 4: Evidence bank, my ego evidence bank, keep doing that because
Speaker 4: that's what gets you the tick, the approval, the head nod,
Speaker 4: the laugh, the whatever it may be. And then I'd
Speaker 4: be walking off that stage or walking away.
Speaker 3: From here, going where was I in that?
Speaker 2: Like?
Speaker 3: Where was I in that? I wasn't there.
Speaker 4: I was putting on something that I felt I needed
Speaker 4: to do in order to fill in the blank.
Speaker 1: So that's how you talk about it in a work context.
Speaker 1: What about in a for example, in a relationship context,
Speaker 1: in particularly an intimate relationship.
Speaker 2: Yep.
Speaker 3: So before my husband.
Speaker 4: Wow, I used to date and basically buried my relaxed,
Speaker 4: authentic self ten feet under.
Speaker 3: I would go there.
Speaker 4: Really kind of at the forefront, wondering who would they
Speaker 4: like me to be? Who would they like me to be?
Speaker 4: So if they like sports, I'd like sports. If they
Speaker 4: like to go fishing on the weekends, I love fishing too.
Speaker 4: Oh they love that soccer team, Sure, I love that
Speaker 4: soccer team. They'll go to the toilet and I'm googling
Speaker 4: that soccer team.
Speaker 1: Is that moment I love it? Is that moment from
Speaker 1: coming to America?
Speaker 2: What is your favorite food? Whatever you like?
Speaker 3: Is that where you were loving?
Speaker 2: Is?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Because I'm thinking that Eddie Murphy having the conversation
Speaker 1: really black and Dog.
Speaker 2: It's like, it's that but I under stand it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, And so when they would come back from
Speaker 1: the bathroom, you'd be like.
Speaker 2: Oh, yeah A c. Malan true? How good is Ronald?
Speaker 3: Do love their uniform?
Speaker 2: Great kit? I believe it's called Yeah, I get it?
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, right, So that.
Speaker 1: Puts the idea I'm guessing and I don't want to
Speaker 1: extrapolate too much from it, but the idea then is
Speaker 1: that you're putting on a front for this person, and
Speaker 1: what happens then if the relationship progresses, at some point
Speaker 1: you're going to show up and you're like, I don't
Speaker 1: really want to watch this game. I don't actually care
Speaker 1: about this, and then their.
Speaker 2: Surprise going, well, what's wrong with you? This was fine
Speaker 2: three months ago?
Speaker 1: Yes, because there is that moment after you stop shagging,
Speaker 1: when you actually have to start talking to each other,
Speaker 1: and that's all that stuff shows up. It's a difficult
Speaker 1: time to go through.
Speaker 4: For everybody you like slam dunk. It's true though, It's
Speaker 4: absolutely true. It's absolutely true. And when I got together
Speaker 4: with my now husband, even when I met him, like,
Speaker 4: I'd done a lot of work on myself up until
Speaker 4: that point, but this particular area of my life when
Speaker 4: it came to love and relationships was.
Speaker 3: My sore spot.
Speaker 4: My deep, deep, dark, wonderful belief underneath that loves to
Speaker 4: mess with me is you're unlovable as you are, You're unlovable.
Speaker 4: And like I said, I've done a lot of work,
Speaker 4: and still when I met him, when we were dating,
Speaker 4: he'd be like, what pizza.
Speaker 3: Do you want? Internally?
Speaker 4: I don't want pizza externally, Perry Perry chicken please.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 4: I wrote that story in my book because that's just
Speaker 4: how easily I went. I would just jump out of
Speaker 4: myself and I would go, I don't want to be
Speaker 4: a drainer.
Speaker 3: I want to be easy going.
Speaker 4: I want to be the kind of girlfriend that's just like, yeah, she's.
Speaker 3: Such an awesome chick, she doesn't bust my balls. I
Speaker 3: want it to be that one.
Speaker 4: That's an example of that, but again birthed from I
Speaker 4: believe I'm unlovable, my ego beliefs, my limiting belief believes
Speaker 4: I'm unlovable as I am so Perry Perry Chicken adds
Speaker 4: some extra sauce things.
Speaker 1: So both of those exams. Let's just talk about the
Speaker 1: work one for a second. Yeah, there is an amount
Speaker 1: of inauthenticity that has been very beneficial to my career.
Speaker 1: All right, I could totally do that. Yes, of course,
Speaker 1: I'll see you Monday. The entire weekend spent learning how
Speaker 1: to use a bit of software or whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever,
Speaker 1: so that no one's career exists without that, fully, none
Speaker 1: of me being inauthentic to telling the person hiring me yep,
Speaker 1: but I deliver yep. So it is, it is there, Yes,
Speaker 1: it is so there is surely has got to be
Speaker 1: a little bit of play in this one.
Speaker 3: And that's why I said before.
Speaker 4: Sometimes our personalities that get us into places and spaces
Speaker 4: and meetings, et cetera, they can be used for good. Right, So,
Speaker 4: like a hyperachiever, for example, if that is their persona
Speaker 4: that they have built that has gotten them across the
Speaker 4: line in many areas of life, amazing, if that gets
Speaker 4: them promoted, if that gets them ahead here or wherever
Speaker 4: good for you.
Speaker 3: You know, it's when it starts to.
Speaker 4: Dominate their life where they then keep chasing that at
Speaker 4: the expense of whatever that might be the expense of
Speaker 4: their family, the expense of listening to their soul, the
Speaker 4: expense of being able to rest, because they're just now
Speaker 4: so used to hyperachieving that they have to get the chase,
Speaker 4: they have to chase, they have to get the win.
Speaker 3: What I talk.
Speaker 4: About is when it becomes the leading role in our
Speaker 4: life that gets a little tricky.
Speaker 1: Tell me about what we might be able to do
Speaker 1: to because this might be the first time someone's considered this,
Speaker 1: or they might have heard this, and God, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: I'm definitely authentic, and I'll ask it in this way
Speaker 1: just through I don't even care how it happened. But
Speaker 1: I know that I rarely get context clues from a
Speaker 1: situation that I'm in. Something's going in a good or
Speaker 1: bad direction? Right, Just notice inside my body, Ah, that's weird.
Speaker 2: Ah, this is.
Speaker 1: Usually my notice thing that something's not great here. Like
Speaker 1: I don't notice something sometimes I don't just where my
Speaker 1: brain is. Sometimes I don't know faces or emotion sometimes,
Speaker 1: but my body does, and so maybe that's the way
Speaker 1: to answer the question. But how might we explore and
Speaker 1: how a might being the feeling of inauthenticity show.
Speaker 2: Up within us.
Speaker 4: It's such a good question, and you pointed out just
Speaker 4: a really important one body awareness. So if before, you know, like,
Speaker 4: for example, me coming here, if I'm relaxed, if I'm good,
Speaker 4: if I'm just you know, fluffing up my hair and
Speaker 4: getting ready, et cetera.
Speaker 1: Great hair by the way, like it's whatever's going on there,
Speaker 1: you know it's a perm. Well, now this is a
Speaker 1: thing that's as a perm supreme.
Speaker 3: Thank you.
Speaker 1: It's supreme, because I mean, I'm very lucky.
Speaker 2: I'm nearly fifty one. I've got all my own hair.
Speaker 1: That's pretty You've got Filipino Filipina going on here. So
Speaker 1: there's like a lot of follicle you can work with.
Speaker 2: Pretty good.
Speaker 3: They are thick follicles.
Speaker 2: Be there's a joint.
Speaker 1: I was actually thinking about it because you know, I'm
Speaker 1: in the mullet years, and I was asking.
Speaker 2: You always ask them hair and makeup artists where should
Speaker 2: I go?
Speaker 1: And they get there's a place, and it's in Haymarket
Speaker 1: and they only do Korean boy band mullets. It's the
Speaker 1: only thing they do. That's it. They just look after
Speaker 1: all of your ts boys, and that's the one haircut.
Speaker 1: Go get it.
Speaker 2: I might have to be it's the one.
Speaker 1: It's there's no like, there's no photos of like which
Speaker 1: one I want to seventeen?
Speaker 2: Please? Wan? The shortback and eye is like, nope, you're
Speaker 2: getting that one. You get the BTS. That's it.
Speaker 1: But they do perms, they perm they perm the boys.
Speaker 4: I ask every year, I say to my hairdresser, are
Speaker 4: you are you with me for another year? Because what
Speaker 4: the hell am I going to do without you? And
Speaker 4: this perm it is. I appreciate the acknowledgment' thank you.
Speaker 2: I can't remember what we're talking about before. We were
Speaker 2: talking about recognizing things now.
Speaker 3: Were so yeah before.
Speaker 4: If I'm there fluffing my hair, feeling good, feeling relaxed
Speaker 4: in the uber, feeling chill, and then when I rock
Speaker 4: up to the building and I notice, like I said before,
Speaker 4: if I'm holding my stomach, or if I'm feeling really
Speaker 4: tight in my chest, if I'm only breathing in the
Speaker 4: upper area of my chest and not deep into my belly,
Speaker 4: or if I'm clenching my jaw. If my shoulders are
Speaker 4: really tight, that's a really beautiful indicator of hey, hey,
Speaker 4: something might be going on here, and what is going
Speaker 4: on here? So body awareness is it's such a big clue.
Speaker 4: It's such a big clue because your body is there
Speaker 4: in time and space and if we can get out
Speaker 4: of our head to acknowledge what is currently going in
Speaker 4: my body? Can I do a quick body scan of
Speaker 4: all right, there's something going on in my gut?
Speaker 3: Is there an emotion there? Okay?
Speaker 1: Is that emotion pizza last night? Is it still fucking
Speaker 1: with me? Or?
Speaker 2: Am I scared?
Speaker 4: Exactly? Exactly? I know it's going to be scared because
Speaker 4: now I.
Speaker 3: Don't do very very fast or anymore? Am I like do? Okay?
Speaker 4: So if I'm scared, then what story might I be
Speaker 4: telling myself? I'm I'm less than usher, I'm not as
Speaker 4: cool as Usher. What if I stuff up on this
Speaker 4: and it's like okay, cool? How can I get present again?
Speaker 4: How can I come back into my relaxed, at ease
Speaker 4: and natural self. And for every single person, that's going
Speaker 4: to be something different. It might be a little phrase,
Speaker 4: it might be a little tap, might be you know,
Speaker 4: just a quiet you know, pad on the chest or
Speaker 4: a little rub of the legs or just closing of
Speaker 4: the eyes for me as another example, if people find
Speaker 4: it difficult for body awareness, what I tend to find
Speaker 4: is when I am inauthentic or when I am off,
Speaker 4: I like I drain my energy really quickly. Now I
Speaker 4: know that still comes back to body awareness, but it's
Speaker 4: like I go to something and I had all this
Speaker 4: energy and I come back and I'm ruined.
Speaker 3: I'm spent.
Speaker 4: I've got nothing left in me, none of me is
Speaker 4: left intact. Right, So again I know that comes down
Speaker 4: to body awareness, but it's like, wow, how much did
Speaker 4: I give out?
Speaker 3: And was that necessary?
Speaker 4: And if it wasn't necessary, then why did I feel
Speaker 4: the need to give that much out? Again, it comes
Speaker 4: to what's the story going on in my head? What's
Speaker 4: the belief rattling around in there?
Speaker 1: And what are some things we might be able to
Speaker 1: do to identify what that story is.
Speaker 4: So like I write in my book and I didn't
Speaker 4: mean that.
Speaker 3: Actually didn't mean that.
Speaker 1: You can buy a PDF course always be closing.
Speaker 3: My husband says that too.
Speaker 4: There is an exercise in there called the ego clearing exercise, Right,
Speaker 4: so you know, that picture of the iceberg, So there's
Speaker 4: a little bit above the water and there's like a
Speaker 4: shit ton below the water. This is what it does.
Speaker 4: That's what the ego clearing exercise is meant to do.
Speaker 4: It's meant to deep dive into the stuff that goes
Speaker 4: on inside of your head. So part of it is
Speaker 4: what's the situation. Situation is I had an event. I've
Speaker 4: come away from it and I am completely spent. None
Speaker 4: of me is left intact. So situation is that's what
Speaker 4: I did, and now I feel like this thoughts are
Speaker 4: I felt like I needed to perform. I felt like
Speaker 4: I needed to impress. I felt like I needed to
Speaker 4: be important. I felt like I needed to whatever it
Speaker 4: might be. And then we take the tool a little
Speaker 4: bit deeper where we go, what am I now making
Speaker 4: this mean about me?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 4: Because that's what the ego does. It puts a lot
Speaker 4: of meaning on ourself. That can it then compares ourself
Speaker 4: against others, and then it can have a pretty jaded
Speaker 4: view of life. So if we use that example, what
Speaker 4: the ego might be making it mean about yourself is
Speaker 4: as I am, I'm not enough. Everyone else seems to
Speaker 4: have that something they've got the factor. They got the sparkle.
Speaker 4: They were born with something that I don't have. I
Speaker 4: have to work doubly as hard as what they have to.
Speaker 4: And so we're starting to get into Okay, here is
Speaker 4: some painful territory. No one wants to do this work,
Speaker 4: but I believe it's important work. Right to we start
Speaker 4: to get to know ourselves. And that's why I call
Speaker 4: it befriending the ego. It's not about pretending it doesn't exist.
Speaker 4: It's about really coming close to it and going what's
Speaker 4: going on here?
Speaker 3: And so if that's.
Speaker 4: What it believes about yourself and then about others, then
Speaker 4: usually that's when it will start to say life's unfair,
Speaker 4: life's a joke. It easier than me. Life's not, you know,
Speaker 4: supporting me. The universe doesn't have my back, whatever it
Speaker 4: might be. The next two questions are, if I remained
Speaker 4: focused on this, what's the outcome?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 4: If I remain focused on I am not enough as
Speaker 4: I am, what's the outcome? The outcome is you'll never
Speaker 4: get to know who you are because you'll forever be
Speaker 4: thinking that you have to be more.
Speaker 3: Than who you are.
Speaker 4: And the last question of the exercise is what's my
Speaker 4: true next best step or what's my truth? Or where
Speaker 4: would I rather place my focus? Or what am I
Speaker 4: going to make matter that is more than this? And
Speaker 4: that's where the work begins. Right. Everyone's answer to that
Speaker 4: question is going to be very personal, and that I
Speaker 4: believe comes from our intuition or in a voice or
Speaker 4: maybe a therapist, maybe the you know, when you're out
Speaker 4: in nature and just something comes to you.
Speaker 1: As an example, what could that next best step look like?
Speaker 1: In the example you've given of, like, I've been in
Speaker 1: a work thing and absolutely cooked by the end of it,
Speaker 1: way more than I normally am. It was so far
Speaker 1: from what I'm comfortable, and you've done all these things.
Speaker 1: What it's the final moment there? What's the next best
Speaker 1: step look like? What can it look like?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 4: So what it can look like is, for an example,
Speaker 4: deeper self inquiry into this. So, for example, that deeper
Speaker 4: self inquiry might look like, how often am I doing this?
Speaker 4: How often am I doing this? Am I doing this
Speaker 4: more than I've cared to acknowledge? And if then that
Speaker 4: person starts to see a real pattern, a real pattern
Speaker 4: that has played across their relationships, their work, wherever it
Speaker 4: may be, then that next best step would lead to
Speaker 4: where is this come from?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 4: Because some people don't know where their beliefs have come from.
Speaker 4: They don't know why it's there. They don't know what
Speaker 4: might have happened in childhood or whatever whatever it might be.
Speaker 4: Where did this belief come from? And did it come
Speaker 4: from watching my dad or my mum or my caregiver.
Speaker 4: Was it a societal belief that I just took on?
Speaker 4: Was it sibling rivalry and I thought I have to
Speaker 4: be better than my older brother or more important than
Speaker 4: my younger sister, whatever it might be another next best step?
Speaker 3: If I can have this belief and not make.
Speaker 4: It like the springboard that I behave from what life
Speaker 4: could be possible? How could it be when I walked
Speaker 4: into a room. How could it be when I ran
Speaker 4: a management meeting? How could it be when I speak
Speaker 4: in front of everyone here? To start tapping into some
Speaker 4: kind of realm of possibility?
Speaker 2: I find it quite useful to then name that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, what do you mean? Tell me more?
Speaker 4: Well?
Speaker 1: I give him dumb names. Yeah, really, I give him
Speaker 1: dumb superhero names. Well, Captain Catastrophe. He's fucking great at
Speaker 1: what he does. And so when I sometimes when I
Speaker 1: get that feeling. It's meant to take a while at first,
Speaker 1: but once you notice it, it's not like you can
Speaker 1: stop this stuff from happening, all right, no one, no,
Speaker 1: not at all. It is some of this stuff is
Speaker 1: so hardwired. It is like source code. You simply can't
Speaker 1: ride over. And that's okay if you know how to
Speaker 1: manage it. And so that shows up the moment I
Speaker 1: notice it, like, ah, there's captain catastrophe, thanks pal, I'm
Speaker 1: just going to keep doing this thing, thanks man, rather
Speaker 1: than and because then.
Speaker 2: It's just there.
Speaker 1: As soon as you notice it, it's separate from you,
Speaker 1: and you find yourself a lot freer to make decisions
Speaker 1: that aren't based in that there. It can be tricky
Speaker 1: because it sometimes takes about twenty minutes for those hormonal
Speaker 1: floods to dissipate, and sometimes I've got to be very
Speaker 1: careful about how I'm breathing and stuff like that, so
Speaker 1: I don't make a choice from that heightened state. But
Speaker 1: you know, if you are, if you're really swinging for
Speaker 1: the fences in life, you're going to be exposing yourself
Speaker 1: to the that are for intense And I'm a firm
Speaker 1: believer and you've got to go. You've got to go
Speaker 1: to the point where things are frightening. Otherwise it just
Speaker 1: everything gets so boring, looking in places that possibly aren't
Speaker 1: healthy for stimulation. Yeah, when we speak about authenticity, we
Speaker 1: see authenticity in relationship to I want to be loved,
Speaker 1: or I want to be of service, or here's my values.
Speaker 1: But we rarely see conversations around authenticity when it comes
Speaker 1: to anger upset, which are normal human emotions. What's the
Speaker 1: challenge in that, and how can we perhaps find a
Speaker 1: space for anger to authentically show up in a safe
Speaker 1: way so that we don't then make choices from that place.
Speaker 4: It's a really great point, and I think that sort
Speaker 4: of two points. The immediate one that comes up is
Speaker 4: anger is an authentic emotion, right, same as sadness, shame, whatever,
Speaker 4: whatever like that is an authentic, real, raw natural emotion.
Speaker 3: I reckon.
Speaker 4: The second part is, especially in my world, coaching world,
Speaker 4: or the spiritual world, personal development world, it's this, this
Speaker 4: is a fine line that I dance with it, but
Speaker 4: there's always it's like better better better better better better
Speaker 4: better better better, do better, be better, positive, be better,
Speaker 4: be positive, be better, be happy, be positive.
Speaker 1: Written on the podcast, mate, I know it does what
Speaker 1: it says on the box.
Speaker 2: Hoops, not at all. It's quite design. I am here
Speaker 2: with you.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, no, I know you are. I know you are.
Speaker 4: It's it almost becomes that's not that's not a very
Speaker 4: spiritual thing. Is it getting angry? That's not a very this.
Speaker 2: Is the thing? Yeah?
Speaker 3: Yeah, ah, that's so. I thought you went to a
Speaker 3: course and you know you're still angry.
Speaker 2: Did you do that weekend thing.
Speaker 3: You did? Ayahuascar? I thought you had some incredible revelation.
Speaker 4: You wrote a book on authenticity, Like, how come you're
Speaker 4: still an angry little bitch?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 4: Because I'm freaking human, you know, And and that.
Speaker 3: That's what I talk about.
Speaker 4: And again, I really don't mean to keep referencing the
Speaker 4: book to plug it. It's just what's in my book, right,
Speaker 4: because I know you're giving you hang.
Speaker 1: But this is the deal, all right? Tickets to the
Speaker 1: Story Club you can check in the show notes.
Speaker 3: Look at us doing our own ads?
Speaker 2: How good? Else? Else is how good are we?
Speaker 4: At the At the end of it, in the epilogue,
Speaker 4: I write about the Forever Dance. It's actually it's actually
Speaker 4: my favorite part of it because I talk about how
Speaker 4: one moment you're gonna feel like you're farting unicorn rainbows,
Speaker 4: that you're on top of the world. Everything's in flow,
Speaker 4: the universe has got your back. Your wife's being a legend,
Speaker 4: your kids are awesome, and you're like, oh my gosh,
Speaker 4: everything is on my side. And then someone cuts you
Speaker 4: off in traffic. Your wife then sends you a funny
Speaker 4: little text or gives you a funny look. Your kids
Speaker 4: are being just a little.
Speaker 3: Bit more noisy than what they usually would.
Speaker 4: That's gnawing on your perfect alignment that you're having before,
Speaker 4: and you're not feeling so ace, and you start to
Speaker 4: get angry, and you start to get resentful, you start
Speaker 4: to feel ungrateful for your life.
Speaker 3: And that's it, right, That is the dance.
Speaker 4: Of being human, where we move from and in and
Speaker 4: out of authenticity.
Speaker 3: There are layers to it, there are levels to it.
Speaker 4: There's a sliding scale of it, and sometimes we are
Speaker 4: so close to it that it's like we've died and
Speaker 4: gone to heaven, and other times we are so far
Speaker 4: away from it. And my point that I love to
Speaker 4: share is that it's all okay, Like it's one hundred
Speaker 4: percent all okay now, Obviously, there's the big asterisks of
Speaker 4: we want to be able to in safe ways express
Speaker 4: our anger, whether it be boxing, whether it be gone
Speaker 4: for a run, whether it be I don't know, angry dancing,
Speaker 4: whether it be screaming into a pillow, taking a drive
Speaker 4: and just listening to Metallica.
Speaker 1: Why would I want to listen to soft rock? Why
Speaker 1: would I want to listen to like Middle of the
Speaker 1: Road old Man music.
Speaker 3: Middle of the Road, old man music. What would you
Speaker 3: listen to?
Speaker 2: Oh, I'll tell you what I was listening to.
Speaker 4: Go oh, okay, okay, whilst you were angry, or just.
Speaker 1: Look, let's just say that my electric Harley Davidson and
Speaker 1: I had a really fun drive here.
Speaker 2: Listening to It's good. If you're being cut off by
Speaker 2: an Audi Q seven registration, this is really useful.
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, that is hilarious.
Speaker 1: Australian Australian kind of hardcore electronica from nineteen ninety five,
Speaker 1: using eight bit samples. It sounds like sandpaper. It's terrifying,
Speaker 1: but sometimes useful.
Speaker 3: We all have our ill.
Speaker 2: Keep derailing it.
Speaker 1: I love it, but anger and in the context, I'm
Speaker 1: number two of four boys went to an all boys school.
Speaker 2: Anger.
Speaker 1: I don't think I ever saw healthy anger expression, okay,
Speaker 1: and what I when I saw anger expressed, it's something
Speaker 1: I did not like. And so expressing anger is something
Speaker 1: that I generally don't do.
Speaker 2: If it does happen, I have so little practice at
Speaker 2: it does not go well.
Speaker 1: Right, How can we, you know, perhaps help young men
Speaker 1: around their understanding what anger is and expressing it and
Speaker 1: processing it.
Speaker 3: In my view, it needs to be exampled. Right. So
Speaker 3: similar to me growing up anger, my mom never expressed it.
Speaker 3: My dad didn't.
Speaker 4: The way he did it was like, oh gosh, that's
Speaker 4: just so it was like icy and the energy in
Speaker 4: the room was just like, oh my gosh, this is horrible.
Speaker 4: And the way that he would voice things out.
Speaker 3: And so it's interesting.
Speaker 4: I've got two step daughters, they're eighteen and sixteen, and
Speaker 4: oh gosh, when you become a parent or bonus parent,
Speaker 4: I try to say bonus.
Speaker 1: Parents, it's a it's a whole different road than that's
Speaker 1: another podcast. That's another podcast series.
Speaker 4: Oh my gosh, I would happily talk on that one.
Speaker 3: I learned a lot.
Speaker 4: About my stuff that I thought was neatly tight and
Speaker 4: packed away and then they.
Speaker 3: Just go flickick CLICKI clickick click.
Speaker 4: So when I come if I come back to the
Speaker 4: point of exampling it, when I get angry, I oh
Speaker 4: my gosh, I internalize it, and it's like I I
Speaker 4: se out the whole house. The whole entire energy of
Speaker 4: the house gets warped, and no one knows what to do.
Speaker 4: They're walking like, can I go here, can I step here?
Speaker 4: Can I talk to her? Can I not talk to her?
Speaker 4: And I started to notice I was actually just repeating
Speaker 4: what my dad did, which is not something I felt
Speaker 4: proud of.
Speaker 3: When I was doing.
Speaker 2: It liberally didn't happen.
Speaker 3: Automatic.
Speaker 4: So what I have done to be an example is
Speaker 4: that when that happens, because it is literally seconds seconds
Speaker 4: where my body just goes head goes bang, I have
Speaker 4: learned and learning continually to communicate when I'm like that,
Speaker 4: And it is so freaking hard to just say I'm
Speaker 4: not okay right now. I just said a minute, it's
Speaker 4: actually got nothing to do with you or reengage soon, right.
Speaker 2: How does you know an eleven year old or a
Speaker 2: twelve year old deal with that?
Speaker 4: Surprisingly, these two girls, they're freaking legends, you know, I
Speaker 4: know in age, you.
Speaker 3: Think they're only eleven, they're only twelve.
Speaker 4: They love that level of authenticity, right, And that's authenticity.
Speaker 3: It's being real, it's being real like in that moment,
Speaker 3: this is where I am.
Speaker 4: This is where I'm at, and I'm owning it, and
Speaker 4: I'm not proud of it. And that's what my younger
Speaker 4: stepdaughter says to me. She says, she calls me kitty.
Speaker 4: She says, the reason why I never stay mad at
Speaker 4: you whenever you get like that is because you own
Speaker 4: up to it.
Speaker 3: Is because you own up to it.
Speaker 4: And sometimes I actually can't muster the strength to get
Speaker 4: the words out of me physically. So then we've got
Speaker 4: a group family text message. I'll send them a message
Speaker 4: and I'll say, I know you can feel where I'm
Speaker 4: at right now. This is what's actually going on. It's
Speaker 4: got nothing to do with you. Just give me a moment.
Speaker 4: Right when I come back. After I've had my moment,
Speaker 4: I've done my work, I've ego cleared, or I've danced
Speaker 4: it out, or I've listened to the song that you
Speaker 4: were listening to before, which I won't say the name of.
Speaker 4: They just welcome me back in. And you know what's interesting,
Speaker 4: Might I say, they now do the.
Speaker 1: Same thing and that's it, as you would and I
Speaker 1: say it all the time, like the hardest thing about parenting,
Speaker 1: it's not the sleep. It's not done it. They don't
Speaker 1: do what you tell them, but they do everything you
Speaker 1: show them. And so you're the one that has to
Speaker 1: do any changing if you want them to do anything.
Speaker 1: And intense part of you know, speaking about processing and
Speaker 1: doing doing that work is like anger is a is
Speaker 1: a very important emotion. It can be a very important
Speaker 1: signal it is important for us to go we'll haang
Speaker 1: on a second, why what was my expectation? And that can,
Speaker 1: in my experience, can help dissipate anger pretty quickly. But
Speaker 1: also anger is a really good motivator like pain. Pain
Speaker 1: is a really good if you can quickly get anger
Speaker 1: into a positive decision point to take you in a
Speaker 1: different direction so a situation doesn't happen again, it's actually
Speaker 1: pretty useful.
Speaker 2: Ye, just taking a quick break from cat back in
Speaker 2: a moment.
Speaker 1: We talked about, you know what it is to you,
Speaker 1: you know, to be authentic a work in a relationship.
Speaker 1: Ways that we might identify why is it important to
Speaker 1: find our authenticity and the distance between that and the
Speaker 1: experience we're actually having, or things where choices we're making.
Speaker 2: What are some things that can happen to us if
Speaker 2: we are out of that alignment?
Speaker 1: And more are what are some ways that might show
Speaker 1: up as a way of coping with the distance between
Speaker 1: now authentic self and the life that we're living.
Speaker 4: Well, that's a big question coming back to one of
Speaker 4: your questions that you said just then about why is
Speaker 4: it important in my view when we are not in
Speaker 4: touch with ourselves, not in check, not in June, not close.
Speaker 4: Like literally, we are creating lives and outcomes of our
Speaker 4: life day by day, moment by moment. And it's like
Speaker 4: my husband actually says this, It's like you want to
Speaker 4: fly from Melbourne to Japan, but there's this other little
Speaker 4: but that's like, ah, I actually want to fly this way, right,
Speaker 4: So you want to go to Japan, But then this
Speaker 4: other voice is directing you to go and you end
Speaker 4: up in Antarctica. We can end up in completely different
Speaker 4: destinations where I think, how at some point in our
Speaker 4: lives we wake up and go where am I and
Speaker 4: what is this? And is this it? And what am
Speaker 4: I doing? Why am I doing this? Is this important
Speaker 4: to me? Does this matter to me, and then we
Speaker 4: have this incredible existential crisis moment.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 4: Sometimes we need that. Sometimes we need those full blown
Speaker 4: Gnali wake up calls where maybe along the way we
Speaker 4: haven't listened. There's been these nudges, There's been people along
Speaker 4: the way they're like, is this really kind of where
Speaker 4: you want to go? We've heard that in a voice,
Speaker 4: and we're like, what the hell is out? I don't
Speaker 4: want to listen to that, and we keep We think
Speaker 4: we're going to Japan, but we end up in Antarctica.
Speaker 4: Why is it freezing? Why is it cold? Why am
Speaker 4: I unprepared for this? Why is this not fulfilling? Why
Speaker 4: is this not the destination that I want to be?
Speaker 2: There is no Ramen?
Speaker 3: There is no Ramen?
Speaker 2: What is this? Where is my bullet train? Why is
Speaker 2: there no B day on the bullet train?
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, I love how your brain works.
Speaker 1: True though, you don't know what actual technological enhancement of
Speaker 1: life is until you have used a Toto B day
Speaker 1: at three hundred and five kilometers an hour between Kyoto
Speaker 1: and Narita Airport, Like this is azing. Just the push
Speaker 1: a button, I know, and I'm doing three hundred ks
Speaker 1: an hour as Mount Fuji is out the window and.
Speaker 3: See, wouldn't you prefer to be there? Then Antarctica with.
Speaker 2: A clean bottom. It's it's amazing, it's amazing.
Speaker 4: Now that's the dream, that's that's where we want to be.
Speaker 4: We want clean eating ramen in Japan on.
Speaker 2: The Just push that when you go to Japan. Just
Speaker 2: push the button. Just push the button. Don't be afraid
Speaker 2: far out.
Speaker 4: And this is where have you heard of the enneagram before?
Speaker 4: What is the So the enneagram are nine different personality profiles.
Speaker 4: It's this beautiful way of seeing our personalities in action.
Speaker 3: Like I was sharing before and what we were talking
Speaker 3: about before.
Speaker 4: Sometimes our personalities are really awesome and they can get
Speaker 4: us into call places, spaces, et cetera. And then other
Speaker 4: times when they are the leading a leading man woman
Speaker 4: in our life, not so great. So there's the reformer,
Speaker 4: which is about being a perfectionist. There's the helper, people pleaser,
Speaker 4: the achiever, the individualist, the investigator, the challenger, the peacemaker.
Speaker 4: And I love I love that work. I love that
Speaker 4: work because, like I was sharing before, there's a sliding
Speaker 4: scale to our personality. And coming back to a question
Speaker 4: why I believe it's important is because when our people pleaser,
Speaker 4: for example, is way too far up the front and
Speaker 4: puts everyone in front of them, wants to help everyone,
Speaker 4: wants to do everything for everyone.
Speaker 3: Is a Mary.
Speaker 4: I don't have needs, I don't need your help. I'm good,
Speaker 4: I'm fine. Don't cook for me, don't clean for me.
Speaker 3: I'll do it for you. I'll do it for you.
Speaker 4: In the back of them, they have got expectations that
Speaker 4: are building up that they don't know about. If they're
Speaker 4: unaware they're doing, they're doing there being everything for everyone
Speaker 4: whilst building up this expectation pile building up resentment.
Speaker 3: That box is getting very very very very full.
Speaker 4: And if they don't get back the amount of love
Speaker 4: that they're giving out, they ain't happy, right that anger
Speaker 4: comes out, So they deny their anger. They don't experience anger.
Speaker 4: They're a positive person, they're a happy person. And then
Speaker 4: they get pissed off and they get miffed. And if
Speaker 4: they dedicate their life to that being a marty being
Speaker 4: pissed off, being a marter being pissed off, where do
Speaker 4: they get to live, Like, when do they get to live?
Speaker 3: What do they actually want? What would they actually like?
Speaker 4: What actually is important to them those questions, and that's
Speaker 4: just for one particular personality type never get asked. And
Speaker 4: to me, have you read the book The Top Five
Speaker 4: Regrets of the Dying.
Speaker 1: Yeah, she's a former palliative care nurse. Yes, who looked
Speaker 1: after people for quite a long career. Yes, and just
Speaker 1: asked the same questions of the people that came under
Speaker 1: her care.
Speaker 2: And they're pretty standard.
Speaker 3: Pretty standard.
Speaker 1: It's not I really wish I scrolled through my phone more.
Speaker 1: It's not that I can guarantee it.
Speaker 4: I know.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: And it's not that I lived for everyone else. It's
Speaker 4: not that I worked the hardest. It's I wish I
Speaker 4: lived a life more true to me. I wish I
Speaker 4: allowed myself to be more happy. I wish I didn't
Speaker 4: work so hard. I can't remember the other two. There's
Speaker 4: top five, but I can't remember the other We ate more.
Speaker 1: Fiber didn't get so far behind on Survivor because when
Speaker 1: it's like it's been a week and the tribal cons
Speaker 1: will make any sense because I don't know the ramifications
Speaker 1: of what's been going on and now I'm like ten
Speaker 1: hours in, I've got such a time lag.
Speaker 2: That's probably one of the answers she got, that's it,
Speaker 2: it'll be mine. But yeah, so it's it's understanding like.
Speaker 1: What kind of life you end up with If you
Speaker 1: go between Marta and pissed off Marter and pistol Marter
Speaker 1: and pissed off, you'll find yourself in this situation where
Speaker 1: like the pain of your day to day life might
Speaker 1: be so great yep, you might need things outside of
Speaker 1: yourself to manage that.
Speaker 2: Correct, and that can start to become quite unhealthy.
Speaker 4: Correct, And then we get to the end of our life,
Speaker 4: like she talks about in her book, and wonder why
Speaker 4: we did that?
Speaker 3: Why did I do that? Why did I spend my
Speaker 3: life on that?
Speaker 4: For each particular personality type, it'll be different. So, for example,
Speaker 4: there's an achiever in there. They're going, they're going, they're doing,
Speaker 4: they're doing, they're being They're like, they're being going and
Speaker 4: being for everything in order to feel like they're enough,
Speaker 4: in order to feel like they're valid, in order to
Speaker 4: feel like they've got a place in the world, and
Speaker 4: that they've they're earning their place. I mean, all the
Speaker 4: while that that is happening, and they're pushing and they're
Speaker 4: foregoing deeper matters that voice that's calling them to maybe
Speaker 4: take the damn chill pill, to sit and rest and
Speaker 4: be present with your kids, to take a nice stroll
Speaker 4: in a park rather than always have to, I don't know,
Speaker 4: do an iron man or a triathlon. All the while,
Speaker 4: whilst that is being ignored and that push push push
Speaker 4: is going on, their partner is looking elsewhere. Their relationship
Speaker 4: is going down the toilet. Their kids feel like they
Speaker 4: don't have a parental one, parental figure that's just not present,
Speaker 4: so they're more close to the other. They're looking for
Speaker 4: someone else to feel that, to fill that space. And
Speaker 4: as that starts to happen, that person that's pushing and
Speaker 4: going and achieving, there's an emptiness there, you know, there's
Speaker 4: a pit that's just waiting, waiting for them to probably
Speaker 4: get sick, have a heart attack. I used to be
Speaker 4: a nurse. I used to work in the cardiothoracic sward,
Speaker 4: and I looked after pretty much men and forty five
Speaker 4: fifty five, sometimes up to sixty day four without fail.
Speaker 4: They would break down, break down, What have I done
Speaker 4: with my life? Why have I worked so hard? I
Speaker 4: miss my family. I should have taken that holiday with him.
Speaker 4: It's the same thing.
Speaker 1: What do you think needs to happen if people might
Speaker 1: be listening to this going, I don't know. I'm fine,
Speaker 1: it's everybody else. What kind of needs to happen? How
Speaker 1: do people get to that day for a moment without
Speaker 1: meeting you in a cardiac careward?
Speaker 3: You know what, some people might not right.
Speaker 4: I know people in my circle who have got parents
Speaker 4: who are older, who have had multiple heart attacks, multiple stents, strokes,
Speaker 4: and they're back at it, and they're back at it
Speaker 4: and they're back at it. And my dad really bravely
Speaker 4: said to me one day, I commend you for the
Speaker 4: work you do on.
Speaker 3: Yourself because I could never do it.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 4: And as much as I'd like to do it, I
Speaker 4: think I'm too scared what I'd find out right authentic?
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, that was his truth.
Speaker 4: He was being very real, and that actually really shifted
Speaker 4: my perspective because before that I was like, come on,
Speaker 4: just change your life, just do this and do that
Speaker 4: and you'll feel better and you won't be so angry,
Speaker 4: and la la, la la la. It was at that
Speaker 4: point I had a different kind of respect for people
Speaker 4: who are like, still going, still going, no matter what,
Speaker 4: no matter how much the universe is trying to shove
Speaker 4: a wake up call in their face.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 4: There are some people that maybe just won't wake up
Speaker 4: to it and don't want to, like my dad, and
Speaker 4: I've got to respect that.
Speaker 3: I know some people out there might be listening.
Speaker 4: They're like, Oh, if only my parent would be like this,
Speaker 4: if only my parent would change, then they would be healthier,
Speaker 4: and you know that they would live a better life
Speaker 4: and they could have more ten more years. And we
Speaker 4: also have to come back to remember each of us
Speaker 4: are here for our own individual experience, and we get
Speaker 4: like we get the power of choice.
Speaker 1: But as you mentioned, it is it is an ongoing
Speaker 1: form of maintenance for me. All this this kind of
Speaker 1: stuff has been happening largely in the last fifteen years,
Speaker 1: which is no mistake that it coincides with getting sober.
Speaker 2: But you know, if I look back at.
Speaker 1: The person you know that I used to be, it
Speaker 1: was almost unrecognizable. And I wonder, because, let's say, for example,
Speaker 1: or someone's listening to this, I don't know there mid twenties,
Speaker 1: late twenties, what what does that catch on look like
Speaker 1: versus you here today mid twenties.
Speaker 4: I had just healed myself from brain surgery chronic pain
Speaker 4: without any medication, which was gnally.
Speaker 2: I'm assuming there was some medication with the brain surgery part.
Speaker 4: Yes, okay, good, yeah, yeah, yeah, after a.
Speaker 1: I mean you can dry but yeah, my white blood
Speaker 1: I'm trusting my white blood cells with this one here,
Speaker 1: but maybe not with.
Speaker 3: Not an open wound. No, no, no, yeah.
Speaker 4: Look, back then, I was out partying, I was out
Speaker 4: taking a lot of drugs, running away from my past
Speaker 4: or running away from whatever hurt internally. And yeah, I
Speaker 4: had a body full of chronic pain registered nurse like,
Speaker 4: becoming overweight, popping pills from panatoll to oxycodone to valium
Speaker 4: to try and sleep pretty much all the time. But
Speaker 4: at twenty five, yeah, that was That was the first
Speaker 4: year I was chronic pain free after six years.
Speaker 3: And but prior.
Speaker 4: To that, I was overweight, very very very mentally dark,
Speaker 4: really really dark. Being told that I might just have
Speaker 4: to manage this for the rest of my life was
Speaker 4: the worst thing I could have heard, but the best thing,
Speaker 4: because this stubbornness inside of me just said, fuck that
Speaker 4: this is I will not accept this. I want to
Speaker 4: accept this from myself. I want to accept this from
Speaker 4: that surgeon. I must find another way.
Speaker 1: I was very much the same with when I was
Speaker 1: on the antipsychotics and everything, getting told note, yeah, this
Speaker 1: is kind of this, you know, this is what it is.
Speaker 1: I was like, what the fucky? This is every day?
Speaker 1: I'm just my insulance. I'm just going to put on
Speaker 1: like a kilo a week and til what I know,
Speaker 1: I ran out of clothes. And I literally said the
Speaker 1: same thing, like, if this is what every day looks like,
Speaker 1: you know what?
Speaker 2: Fuck that. I'm going to do everything I can to
Speaker 2: not be this. But it's not that the work is.
Speaker 1: It's that the easier path to take was to just
Speaker 1: do that what they were saying, which is fine if
Speaker 1: you want to do that, and I understand it might
Speaker 1: be too much to lift, but yeah, I just I
Speaker 1: just refuse to accept.
Speaker 2: Really only all day.
Speaker 3: Yeah no, I don't want that, I know, but.
Speaker 1: It's you kind of do have to come to that
Speaker 1: pain point, don't you.
Speaker 2: You kind of have to come.
Speaker 3: To that point to your knees. Yeah, to your knees.
Speaker 1: And in my case, I had to understand that, oh,
Speaker 1: I'm the reason I'm down here, that's the one.
Speaker 3: You're all the heart like those dark Knights soul.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's true, though only when you get to that point.
Speaker 1: Only when you get to that point does any of
Speaker 1: this actually work. When you're doing it for somebody else,
Speaker 1: it doesn't work, but it is wonderfully. There's are questions
Speaker 1: you can ask yourself quietly by yourself. No one else
Speaker 1: has asking these questions. You can, you know, you can
Speaker 1: be the one that what is my actual responsibility? Did
Speaker 1: I choose to stay in that job? How long have
Speaker 1: I chosen to stay here because it's.
Speaker 2: Easier than not going. No one else has to know.
Speaker 1: But that's when you can have those moments to ask
Speaker 1: yourself those questions. And Yeah, one last thing I have noticed,
Speaker 1: just anecdotally through you know, researching this interview, that moving
Speaker 1: and dancing is a part of your life. And I
Speaker 1: have recently had some experience in this space. So how
Speaker 1: did that come into your life and what do you
Speaker 1: get out of it?
Speaker 4: I dance from when I was a kid, it's when
Speaker 4: I'm from the age of four.
Speaker 3: I just loved it.
Speaker 1: Having been a dance dad. Part of your father's annoyance
Speaker 1: is starting to make sense to me, because.
Speaker 4: To watch everyone else except your kid is very annoying
Speaker 4: to see the same dance sing time, good show, exactly, exactly,
Speaker 4: exactly do you dance as a kid.
Speaker 3: I danced as a kid.
Speaker 4: But also in the Filipino culture like dance, music, singing.
Speaker 4: It's just they know how to dance, they know how
Speaker 4: to sing. Except my mom can't sing, haha, but she
Speaker 4: can dance. My gosh, you can dance. So I danced
Speaker 4: from when I was a kid, and I just I
Speaker 4: loved it.
Speaker 3: It was very joyful for me.
Speaker 4: Then dance I was up in high school, dance when
Speaker 4: I was out partying and taking drugs and having a
Speaker 4: great old time. And then this chronic pain stopped everything
Speaker 4: in my tracks. What it gave me, what I loved
Speaker 4: about it, well, what it gave me before was joy.
Speaker 4: Right when I was doing choreograph dance. Have you heard
Speaker 4: of five rhythms? Oh my gosh, that is cool. I
Speaker 4: remember I was doing this chakra empowerment course when I
Speaker 4: was in my like who the hell am I will
Speaker 4: let me find myself phase and one of the pieces
Speaker 4: of homework was to go to five rhythms. And it's
Speaker 4: this free dance. So you go there music playing two hours,
Speaker 4: there's five different rhythms of dance, chaos, lyricals toaccato stillness
Speaker 4: and something else. I always forget the fifth anyway, I
Speaker 4: walked in, Oh gosh, and I was such a judgy bitch.
Speaker 4: I'm like, these are not my kind of people. This
Speaker 4: is not my music. This is full of hippies. I'm
Speaker 4: just going to go home. I don't care. Take my
Speaker 4: twenty five bucks. I'm out skis. And then the stubbornness
Speaker 4: came back, which this is where I love my stubbornness,
Speaker 4: and was like, ah, twenty minutes, give it twenty minutes. Literally,
Speaker 4: people were just in there doing whatever they wanted to do, dancing.
Speaker 4: Some guy was walking around roaring right because that was
Speaker 4: his expression. Eventually, after about twenty minutes, I gave myself
Speaker 4: to the rhythm and free freedom, total utter freedom. I
Speaker 4: was like, this is what it feels like to be
Speaker 4: in my body, to feel totally safe in my body,
Speaker 4: to feel free and at liberty to move it however
Speaker 4: the hell I want to move it not a piece
Speaker 4: of choreography in sight, and I felt incredible.
Speaker 3: That's what it gives me.
Speaker 1: And so now you use that through the day as
Speaker 1: part of you mentioned at the start of our conversation
Speaker 1: about being bodily aware. Does you know if you're in
Speaker 1: a point where there's a I don't know, like a
Speaker 1: peak of you know, some sort of hormonal release in
Speaker 1: your body, were like, eh, can you find just like
Speaker 1: whacking out a couple of bars and a quick little boogaloo.
Speaker 2: Will full und your game.
Speaker 4: It's usually I always choose emotive music songs where like
Speaker 4: this is me from the Greatest Showman Good where I
Speaker 4: don't quite sometimes I don't quite know how I'm feeling.
Speaker 4: And then if I put a song like that on,
Speaker 4: or some some of Pink's songs that are a motive
Speaker 4: that just do the speaking for me, and then there's
Speaker 4: just this rush of emotion that comes and it falls
Speaker 4: out of my eyes in the form of tears, and
Speaker 4: I'm like, thank you.
Speaker 3: I don't know what that was. I don't know what
Speaker 3: that is there it is.
Speaker 1: I prefer just whacking on some motown or some stacks
Speaker 1: Stacks or stax recks towards myself.
Speaker 2: Get a bit of Sam and Dave. Hold on, I'm
Speaker 2: coming on.
Speaker 1: I'll do the whitest white man dance to the two
Speaker 1: of the heaviest brothers. That's a song all about rooting,
Speaker 1: but it made it onto the top ten that has
Speaker 1: in the past. That is really like turning literally turning
Speaker 1: a light switch on and off for my emotional state,
Speaker 1: and it's really useful. So I thoroughly recommend that people
Speaker 1: get out of this podcast, open up some sort of
Speaker 1: music thing and just give.
Speaker 2: It a couple of minutes.
Speaker 3: We should create a playlist.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'll put I'll put a play You put a
Speaker 1: couple of tracks and I'll put a couple of tracks on.
Speaker 2: We'll work it in the show notes. How about that?
Speaker 2: As long as as well as a.
Speaker 1: Link to catch On's Brandy book available now on People
Speaker 1: in Random Hills.
Speaker 4: Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, Thanks for
Speaker 4: going pleasure.
Speaker 2: That was Cat John, How great is kat?
Speaker 1: If you want to have a boogie, If you want
Speaker 1: to boogie the hevgbs away, you can find a link
Speaker 1: to the blowlist. You'll find that in the show notes,
Speaker 1: along with where you can get tickets to the next
Speaker 1: live show of story Club.
Speaker 2: And where you can pre order the books.
Speaker 1: So what now? What? Thank you so much for getting
Speaker 1: around the show. There's also a link to the substack
Speaker 1: in there. Thanks Adam Bunch for producing this episode your Ace.
Speaker 1: I hope you have a fantastic week. If you do,
Speaker 1: buy the book, screenshot your proof of purchase and email
Speaker 1: me Sandos your email at gmail dot com and I'll.
Speaker 2: Shoot you back something to say thanks. I'll see her
Speaker 2: on Monday.