S1: There's probably no bigger name in Queensland's political history than
S1: former Premier Sir Joh Bjelke-Petersen. He will be long remembered
S1: by both his many supporters and many, many detractors as well. Controversial,
S1: to say the least, dictatorial to say the worst. And
S1: today marks 26 years, can you believe? Since the famous
S1: Fitzgerald Report was submitted on the 3rd of July 1989?
S1: And didn't that put the cat among the pigeons? Now
S1: there's a newly minted television documentary airing on Stan. Joh,
S1: last King of Queensland is the title of that. Joining
S1: us now on for Busy Mornings is one of the
S1: producers of this doco. I've heard so many great things
S1: about Alan Erson. Good morning Alan. Morning. What drew you
S1: to this subject? He's a very multi-layered figure, isn't he? Sir. Joh?
S2: Yeah, he's I mean, he's, uh, he's, uh, he's a
S2: really important Australian. Um, and I know that, uh, you know,
S2: amongst the team, especially my colleague Veronica Fury. Uh, she'd
S2: been wanting to make this film for more than a
S2: quarter of a century. Um, and it's a you know,
S2: the Joe story is, you know, is a is a
S2: is a great chunk of Australian history. Uh, and, you know,
S2: Queensland is an important part of Australia, not just in Queensland,
S2: of course, but it's, you know, it's a it's a
S2: state that people from the southern states are often moved
S2: to or, you know, look to. You know, it's a,
S2: it's a in some ways Queensland's an aspirational place. Um,
S2: and it's also it's also there's a there's a increased
S2: relevance the now um which is the rise of authoritarian
S2: authoritarian figures all over the world. Yes. Donald Trump, but also, um,
S2: you know, you know, Modi in India, Erdogan and Turkey, um,
S2: you know, big, big, strong men winning election after election
S2: and governing, uh, in a, you know, in a very
S2: decisive and not necessarily always democratic way. That's something that
S2: is a characteristic of the Joh Bjelke-Petersen era. And we
S2: wanted to explore that. And, you know, not just Joe,
S2: but Queenslanders and why Queenslanders elected him six times as
S2: premier and why he was widely loved and still loved
S2: to this day.
S1: Do you think I was only a kid growing up
S1: when he was sort of in his reign? And do
S1: you think people got to know Queensland and knew of
S1: Queensland because of Sir Joh and the notoriety that he
S1: brought and his famous way of talking?
S2: Ah, I think he, um, you know, he was a
S2: he was a colossus on the Australian stage, but he
S2: had a, he, he did have a particular appeal in
S2: Queensland that I think perhaps people from outside didn't understand
S2: and still don't. And that's what the one of the
S2: things I think the film does quite a good job
S2: of exploring, uh, the, the appeal and also the, the,
S2: the opposite of that, the, the fact that, you know,
S2: as he, as he became more and more entrenched in
S2: power and as the things that he did as, you know,
S2: the building, the building corruption, the, uh, the clampdown on
S2: people's civil liberties, is, um, you know, he then generated a,
S2: you know, equally an equally powerful, you know, hatred among
S2: some people and that so, you know, you have it
S2: was a very dramatic time in Queensland and totally, totally fascinating.
S1: Yeah, yeah.
S2: From the perspective of now.
S1: You've got some iconic Aussie actor. Richard Roxburgh actually delivers
S1: the unique and they are unique Sir Joe monologues. How
S1: did that all come about?
S2: Yeah, the the monologues are inspired by a massive amount
S2: of research that we did, um, of of Joe, of
S2: things Joe said, um, things Joe wrote, uh, things people think,
S2: you know, both reported both directly what he said and published,
S2: but also what, what he said to other people. Um,
S2: and it's written by, um, the Queensland writer Matthew Condon
S2: and the director, Chris Stenders, who's also a Queenslander. Matthew's been, uh,
S2: you know, deep in Queensland history for decades. Uh, you know,
S2: he published, um, the trilogy of books about corruption in Queensland. um,
S2: that are sitting on my desk here and, you know,
S2: they're seminal works. So what the idea, what Richard Roxburgh
S2: does is it's clear that Richard Roxburgh, he, he, he
S2: channels Joe from, from from a time when at the
S2: end of Joe's career, when he was he, he was gone. Um, he, he, uh,
S2: there's a moment where he was the party had decided
S2: that they didn't want him to be the leader anymore,
S2: and he went into his office, and he didn't come
S2: out for a number of for for a number of days. Um,
S2: and he wouldn't he didn't come out to face the parliament,
S2: his party or the press. Um, so we imagine that
S2: we imagine that moment, and then Richard performs, uh, you know,
S2: monologues based on Joe's. You know, what ideas that Joe
S2: expressed right across his life. So it's like a, it's
S2: a the audience understands that. It's a it's an evocation
S2: of ideas that Joe stood for throughout different stages of his,
S2: his long career. Um, and it helps we think and
S2: we hope that people are, you know, it helps people
S2: get inside his character. And it sits alongside the rich archive. Um,
S2: and interview from um commentators. That is the majority of
S2: the documentary.
S1: Was there anything from any of the people interviewed that
S1: surprised or shocked you?
S2: Uh, I, I'd note that, first of all, that his, uh,
S2: that I mean, we have, you know, we've been researching
S2: this for more than a year. I have and the team,
S2: as I say, Matthew, decades and many other people. So
S2: not necessarily surprised. Just the the depth of feeling still
S2: surprise me. I know that might sound a bit naive,
S2: but it, it really, you know, the the Fury, um,
S2: his his his family appear in the documentary. His, um,
S2: three daughters and his son.
S1: I was going to say, did you get much cooperation
S1: from family, friends and political luminaries? Journos.
S2: Yeah. They they the family are really are really. We're
S2: really grateful that they appeared. Um. and that they're, you know,
S2: because because part of the idea that Chris really wanted
S2: to get to is the director was not to cast, uh,
S2: to cast, to get inside the idea of who Joe
S2: was and why he connected with people in Queensland across
S2: such a long time. So what's that engagement? So, you know, people,
S2: you know, people voted for Donald Trump. They voted for
S2: many of the authoritarian leaders that we have in the
S2: world today. They consistently voted for Joe. They liked a
S2: lot of things about what he did. Why? What was it?
S2: What was it about Joe? So, yeah, Bob Katter is
S2: a fascinating, uh, commentator and colleague of Joe's. But not
S2: without not not not lacking in criticism of him, um,
S2: as well. His family are just you just you just
S2: you get a sense of what he was like, what
S2: their family was like, which is, you know, they they
S2: seem they seem remarkably at peace for people, often for
S2: people who are the children of, um, of of of big, big,
S2: powerful men. That doesn't always it doesn't always make for
S2: an easy life for their kids. Um, so that was
S2: it was interesting to get a glimpse into the dynamics
S2: of the family. And I think on the, on the
S2: people who are, um, who, you know, who still still passionately, um,
S2: furious with Joe. I mean, I think Lionel Fogarty, um,
S2: First Nations man and poet, he, you know, even just
S2: his manner of speaking and his the perspective from which
S2: he comes, like, you know, that that era, that Joe era, like,
S2: we don't get into loads of detail about the land
S2: rights era, but the that that it's it's like that really,
S2: you know, that's, you know, that's a, that's it's still
S2: a visceral, visceral, um, viscerally felt, uh, debate now.
S1: Yeah. I even remember the Gough Whitlam at the time
S1: called him a Bible bashing bastard. At one stage there
S1: was a lot of feeling towards him. Uh, how much
S1: do you think did you get the answer to why
S1: people voted him in for so many, so many terms,
S1: or do we have to watch this special?
S2: I think you have to watch the film, but I
S2: think we have a good go at it. And I
S2: think it's like there's you can I think especially for Queenslanders,
S2: I think it's, you know, because everyone's people have will
S2: have family memories of the if you're of a certain
S2: age um, and even people will, you know, even even
S2: people who are too young to remember Joe if they
S2: ask their if they ask their relations, they will. There's
S2: a he's still really there in the atmosphere. But I
S2: think some really practical things that people talk about, um,
S2: there's the electoral boundaries factor. You know.
S1: The gerrymander.
S2: Inherited the gerrymander, which apparently is not, strictly speaking, a gerrymander.
S2: It's a malapportionment of of the boundary anyway. Whatever. But
S2: it's called gerrymander in Queensland. And he inherited that and
S2: never and then never addressed it. So that helped him. Yes.
S2: So really practical, you know, faults in our democracy, but also, uh,
S2: you know, 1971 Um, Springbok tour. He let the cops
S2: loose on the protesters and that really worked for him.
S2: A lot of people really like that. They really they,
S2: you know, uh, picking out an enemy, uh, you know, um,
S2: Queensland identity, you know, we're Queenslanders, we're Australians. But yeah,
S2: we're we're like better Australians and a bit of and yep,
S2: the Melbourne and Sydney people look down on us and
S2: you know, but we really should be looking down on
S2: them because it's better here.
S1: Yeah.
S2: Yeah that really appealed. Um and that but the other
S2: thing is he delivered massive development over the time he
S2: was there. He delivered, you know, growth. Um, you know,
S2: he and not not just him, but he, he, you know,
S2: capitalism went hard. I mean, you know, mining, uh, development,
S2: you know, counting cranes on the Gold Coast. I mean,
S2: you know, that's a that's that's a lot of people
S2: got their slice of the Australian dream in that era.
S2: And whether, you know, a lot of them attributed at
S2: least that in part to Joe.
S1: What about the famous, uh, he was always famous for
S1: his rhetoric and his. I say to you, I feed
S1: the chooks, all that sort of thing. And do you
S1: think that was that was him, or was he deliberately
S1: being confusing a bit sort of Trump like? In a way,
S1: Trump sort of says what's on his mind and just
S1: blasts it out there.
S2: That's that's fascinating because he's a smart guy. Not not
S2: not classically articulate, but really, you know, you know what
S2: some people call them cunning. Some people, you know, someone
S2: calls them God. One of the you know, David Littleproud
S2: calls them God. You know, um, I mean, you know,
S2: it's it's, you know, he's um, the way he express
S2: himself is absolutely because of Trump. Partly. But also he's
S2: just you know what? He never he never he never
S2: felt like talking down at us. I think that's one
S2: of the key things. And watching hours and hours of archive.
S2: I mean, when you put him up, we cut him
S2: up against Gough Whitlam, you know, Fulbright, you know, um,
S2: and Bob Katter calls Gough Whitlam, you know, arrogant and
S2: couldn't see it coming. Couldn't see, couldn't, couldn't see the
S2: opposition coming. And I don't think Gough Whitlam's out of
S2: touch with Australians, but he was he was definitely a
S2: guy that you look up to. Whereas I think people,
S2: especially Queenslanders, felt looked, felt they were looking across at Joe.
S2: I mean, Joe had a lot of power. He garnered,
S2: he garnered power, he held on to it. He maximised
S2: his power and he wielded it. So you weren't looking
S2: at across at him. You were looking at Upham. He
S2: was a very, very powerful man. And if you got
S2: on the wrong side of him, that would, you know,
S2: the consequences could be brutal.
S1: Well, it sounds like it's a fascinating doco. And you're right,
S1: a lot of people today still yearn for the years
S1: of Joe. And a lot of people love him as
S1: many hate and don't like as well. So this sounds
S1: like it's fascinating, warts and all. Uh, Joe, last king
S1: of Queensland. I can't wait to have a look at it. And, uh, congratulations.
S1: I really appreciate your time.
S2: No, thanks. I hope people enjoy it on Stan. And, uh,
S2: and and, you know, argue, um, you know, laugh, cry, cheer, because,
S2: you know, it's important.