WEBVTT - 'Not always democratic': Documentary reveals legacy of political strongman Joh Bjelke-Petersen 0:00:00.040 --> 0:00:03.200 There's probably no bigger name in Queensland's political history than 0:00:03.240 --> 0:00:07.400 former Premier Sir Joh Bjelke-Petersen. He will be long remembered 0:00:07.400 --> 0:00:11.800 by both his many supporters and many, many detractors as well. Controversial, 0:00:11.840 --> 0:00:15.280 to say the least, dictatorial to say the worst. And 0:00:15.280 --> 0:00:18.000 today marks 26 years, can you believe? Since the famous 0:00:18.000 --> 0:00:23.000 Fitzgerald Report was submitted on the 3rd of July 1989? 0:00:23.000 --> 0:00:25.960 And didn't that put the cat among the pigeons? Now 0:00:25.960 --> 0:00:29.840 there's a newly minted television documentary airing on Stan. Joh, 0:00:30.080 --> 0:00:32.720 last King of Queensland is the title of that. Joining 0:00:32.720 --> 0:00:34.559 us now on for Busy Mornings is one of the 0:00:34.560 --> 0:00:37.240 producers of this doco. I've heard so many great things 0:00:37.240 --> 0:00:41.640 about Alan Erson. Good morning Alan. Morning. What drew you 0:00:41.640 --> 0:00:45.240 to this subject? He's a very multi-layered figure, isn't he? Sir. Joh? 0:00:45.680 --> 0:00:48.839 Yeah, he's I mean, he's, uh, he's, uh, he's a 0:00:48.840 --> 0:00:53.080 really important Australian. Um, and I know that, uh, you know, 0:00:53.120 --> 0:00:56.440 amongst the team, especially my colleague Veronica Fury. Uh, she'd 0:00:56.480 --> 0:00:58.480 been wanting to make this film for more than a 0:00:58.480 --> 0:01:02.330 quarter of a century. Um, and it's a you know, 0:01:03.090 --> 0:01:05.530 the Joe story is, you know, is a is a 0:01:05.530 --> 0:01:09.050 is a great chunk of Australian history. Uh, and, you know, 0:01:09.090 --> 0:01:12.330 Queensland is an important part of Australia, not just in Queensland, 0:01:12.370 --> 0:01:13.890 of course, but it's, you know, it's a it's a 0:01:13.890 --> 0:01:18.250 state that people from the southern states are often moved 0:01:18.250 --> 0:01:20.650 to or, you know, look to. You know, it's a, 0:01:20.650 --> 0:01:24.530 it's a in some ways Queensland's an aspirational place. Um, 0:01:24.690 --> 0:01:28.570 and it's also it's also there's a there's a increased 0:01:28.569 --> 0:01:31.770 relevance the now um which is the rise of authoritarian 0:01:31.810 --> 0:01:36.050 authoritarian figures all over the world. Yes. Donald Trump, but also, um, 0:01:36.090 --> 0:01:39.970 you know, you know, Modi in India, Erdogan and Turkey, um, 0:01:39.970 --> 0:01:43.569 you know, big, big, strong men winning election after election 0:01:43.569 --> 0:01:46.170 and governing, uh, in a, you know, in a very 0:01:46.170 --> 0:01:51.010 decisive and not necessarily always democratic way. That's something that 0:01:51.010 --> 0:01:53.610 is a characteristic of the Joh Bjelke-Petersen era. And we 0:01:53.610 --> 0:01:56.050 wanted to explore that. And, you know, not just Joe, 0:01:56.050 --> 0:02:00.290 but Queenslanders and why Queenslanders elected him six times as 0:02:00.410 --> 0:02:04.810 premier and why he was widely loved and still loved 0:02:04.810 --> 0:02:05.530 to this day. 0:02:05.530 --> 0:02:07.690 Do you think I was only a kid growing up 0:02:08.130 --> 0:02:11.650 when he was sort of in his reign? And do 0:02:11.650 --> 0:02:15.170 you think people got to know Queensland and knew of 0:02:15.169 --> 0:02:17.810 Queensland because of Sir Joh and the notoriety that he 0:02:17.810 --> 0:02:20.050 brought and his famous way of talking? 0:02:20.370 --> 0:02:23.410 Ah, I think he, um, you know, he was a 0:02:23.570 --> 0:02:27.690 he was a colossus on the Australian stage, but he 0:02:27.690 --> 0:02:30.450 had a, he, he did have a particular appeal in 0:02:30.450 --> 0:02:34.370 Queensland that I think perhaps people from outside didn't understand 0:02:34.610 --> 0:02:37.050 and still don't. And that's what the one of the 0:02:37.050 --> 0:02:39.250 things I think the film does quite a good job 0:02:39.250 --> 0:02:43.850 of exploring, uh, the, the appeal and also the, the, 0:02:44.050 --> 0:02:47.450 the opposite of that, the, the fact that, you know, 0:02:47.490 --> 0:02:50.610 as he, as he became more and more entrenched in 0:02:50.610 --> 0:02:54.010 power and as the things that he did as, you know, 0:02:54.010 --> 0:02:58.889 the building, the building corruption, the, uh, the clampdown on 0:02:58.889 --> 0:03:03.060 people's civil liberties, is, um, you know, he then generated a, 0:03:03.100 --> 0:03:06.780 you know, equally an equally powerful, you know, hatred among 0:03:06.780 --> 0:03:10.220 some people and that so, you know, you have it 0:03:10.220 --> 0:03:13.620 was a very dramatic time in Queensland and totally, totally fascinating. 0:03:13.900 --> 0:03:14.660 Yeah, yeah. 0:03:14.820 --> 0:03:16.139 From the perspective of now. 0:03:16.180 --> 0:03:20.300 You've got some iconic Aussie actor. Richard Roxburgh actually delivers 0:03:20.300 --> 0:03:23.460 the unique and they are unique Sir Joe monologues. How 0:03:23.460 --> 0:03:24.540 did that all come about? 0:03:24.700 --> 0:03:29.660 Yeah, the the monologues are inspired by a massive amount 0:03:29.660 --> 0:03:34.340 of research that we did, um, of of Joe, of 0:03:34.580 --> 0:03:38.940 things Joe said, um, things Joe wrote, uh, things people think, 0:03:38.980 --> 0:03:41.860 you know, both reported both directly what he said and published, 0:03:41.860 --> 0:03:44.580 but also what, what he said to other people. Um, 0:03:44.580 --> 0:03:48.020 and it's written by, um, the Queensland writer Matthew Condon 0:03:48.020 --> 0:03:52.820 and the director, Chris Stenders, who's also a Queenslander. Matthew's been, uh, 0:03:52.860 --> 0:03:56.540 you know, deep in Queensland history for decades. Uh, you know, 0:03:56.580 --> 0:04:01.100 he published, um, the trilogy of books about corruption in Queensland. um, 0:04:01.500 --> 0:04:04.020 that are sitting on my desk here and, you know, 0:04:04.020 --> 0:04:08.420 they're seminal works. So what the idea, what Richard Roxburgh 0:04:08.460 --> 0:04:11.820 does is it's clear that Richard Roxburgh, he, he, he 0:04:12.020 --> 0:04:15.780 channels Joe from, from from a time when at the 0:04:15.780 --> 0:04:22.140 end of Joe's career, when he was he, he was gone. Um, he, he, uh, 0:04:22.140 --> 0:04:25.260 there's a moment where he was the party had decided 0:04:25.260 --> 0:04:27.020 that they didn't want him to be the leader anymore, 0:04:27.100 --> 0:04:28.740 and he went into his office, and he didn't come 0:04:28.740 --> 0:04:31.940 out for a number of for for a number of days. Um, 0:04:31.940 --> 0:04:34.380 and he wouldn't he didn't come out to face the parliament, 0:04:34.420 --> 0:04:37.659 his party or the press. Um, so we imagine that 0:04:37.700 --> 0:04:42.859 we imagine that moment, and then Richard performs, uh, you know, 0:04:43.860 --> 0:04:47.500 monologues based on Joe's. You know, what ideas that Joe 0:04:47.540 --> 0:04:50.380 expressed right across his life. So it's like a, it's 0:04:50.420 --> 0:04:53.020 a the audience understands that. It's a it's an evocation 0:04:53.020 --> 0:04:56.860 of ideas that Joe stood for throughout different stages of his, 0:04:56.860 --> 0:05:00.340 his long career. Um, and it helps we think and 0:05:00.339 --> 0:05:03.390 we hope that people are, you know, it helps people 0:05:03.390 --> 0:05:08.589 get inside his character. And it sits alongside the rich archive. Um, 0:05:08.710 --> 0:05:12.830 and interview from um commentators. That is the majority of 0:05:12.830 --> 0:05:13.670 the documentary. 0:05:13.710 --> 0:05:16.190 Was there anything from any of the people interviewed that 0:05:16.230 --> 0:05:17.589 surprised or shocked you? 0:05:17.830 --> 0:05:21.230 Uh, I, I'd note that, first of all, that his, uh, 0:05:21.230 --> 0:05:25.270 that I mean, we have, you know, we've been researching 0:05:25.270 --> 0:05:29.070 this for more than a year. I have and the team, 0:05:29.110 --> 0:05:31.870 as I say, Matthew, decades and many other people. So 0:05:32.190 --> 0:05:36.150 not necessarily surprised. Just the the depth of feeling still 0:05:36.550 --> 0:05:38.510 surprise me. I know that might sound a bit naive, 0:05:38.550 --> 0:05:43.070 but it, it really, you know, the the Fury, um, 0:05:43.270 --> 0:05:47.070 his his his family appear in the documentary. His, um, 0:05:47.230 --> 0:05:48.430 three daughters and his son. 0:05:48.470 --> 0:05:50.310 I was going to say, did you get much cooperation 0:05:50.310 --> 0:05:53.390 from family, friends and political luminaries? Journos. 0:05:53.430 --> 0:05:57.870 Yeah. They they the family are really are really. We're 0:05:57.870 --> 0:06:02.710 really grateful that they appeared. Um. and that they're, you know, 0:06:02.750 --> 0:06:05.150 because because part of the idea that Chris really wanted 0:06:05.150 --> 0:06:08.070 to get to is the director was not to cast, uh, 0:06:08.070 --> 0:06:11.070 to cast, to get inside the idea of who Joe 0:06:11.110 --> 0:06:14.630 was and why he connected with people in Queensland across 0:06:14.630 --> 0:06:18.190 such a long time. So what's that engagement? So, you know, people, 0:06:18.230 --> 0:06:21.110 you know, people voted for Donald Trump. They voted for 0:06:21.350 --> 0:06:24.310 many of the authoritarian leaders that we have in the 0:06:24.310 --> 0:06:27.430 world today. They consistently voted for Joe. They liked a 0:06:27.430 --> 0:06:29.990 lot of things about what he did. Why? What was it? 0:06:30.029 --> 0:06:32.830 What was it about Joe? So, yeah, Bob Katter is 0:06:32.830 --> 0:06:38.350 a fascinating, uh, commentator and colleague of Joe's. But not 0:06:38.390 --> 0:06:41.309 without not not not lacking in criticism of him, um, 0:06:41.350 --> 0:06:43.909 as well. His family are just you just you just 0:06:44.070 --> 0:06:46.230 you get a sense of what he was like, what 0:06:46.230 --> 0:06:49.030 their family was like, which is, you know, they they 0:06:49.029 --> 0:06:52.390 seem they seem remarkably at peace for people, often for 0:06:52.390 --> 0:06:57.270 people who are the children of, um, of of of big, big, 0:06:57.270 --> 0:07:00.920 powerful men. That doesn't always it doesn't always make for 0:07:00.920 --> 0:07:03.680 an easy life for their kids. Um, so that was 0:07:03.720 --> 0:07:06.120 it was interesting to get a glimpse into the dynamics 0:07:06.120 --> 0:07:09.840 of the family. And I think on the, on the 0:07:09.840 --> 0:07:16.520 people who are, um, who, you know, who still still passionately, um, 0:07:16.720 --> 0:07:19.720 furious with Joe. I mean, I think Lionel Fogarty, um, 0:07:19.960 --> 0:07:24.160 First Nations man and poet, he, you know, even just 0:07:24.160 --> 0:07:27.720 his manner of speaking and his the perspective from which 0:07:27.720 --> 0:07:30.320 he comes, like, you know, that that era, that Joe era, like, 0:07:30.320 --> 0:07:32.120 we don't get into loads of detail about the land 0:07:32.120 --> 0:07:36.720 rights era, but the that that it's it's like that really, 0:07:37.240 --> 0:07:40.280 you know, that's, you know, that's a, that's it's still 0:07:40.280 --> 0:07:46.200 a visceral, visceral, um, viscerally felt, uh, debate now. 0:07:46.520 --> 0:07:50.480 Yeah. I even remember the Gough Whitlam at the time 0:07:50.480 --> 0:07:52.880 called him a Bible bashing bastard. At one stage there 0:07:52.880 --> 0:07:55.840 was a lot of feeling towards him. Uh, how much 0:07:55.880 --> 0:07:57.520 do you think did you get the answer to why 0:07:57.560 --> 0:08:00.369 people voted him in for so many, so many terms, 0:08:00.370 --> 0:08:02.450 or do we have to watch this special? 0:08:02.730 --> 0:08:04.090 I think you have to watch the film, but I 0:08:04.090 --> 0:08:05.530 think we have a good go at it. And I 0:08:05.530 --> 0:08:09.370 think it's like there's you can I think especially for Queenslanders, 0:08:09.370 --> 0:08:14.170 I think it's, you know, because everyone's people have will 0:08:14.170 --> 0:08:17.210 have family memories of the if you're of a certain 0:08:17.250 --> 0:08:20.770 age um, and even people will, you know, even even 0:08:20.810 --> 0:08:22.570 people who are too young to remember Joe if they 0:08:22.570 --> 0:08:27.010 ask their if they ask their relations, they will. There's 0:08:27.050 --> 0:08:29.330 a he's still really there in the atmosphere. But I 0:08:29.330 --> 0:08:32.690 think some really practical things that people talk about, um, 0:08:32.730 --> 0:08:36.170 there's the electoral boundaries factor. You know. 0:08:36.330 --> 0:08:37.050 The gerrymander. 0:08:37.050 --> 0:08:41.849 Inherited the gerrymander, which apparently is not, strictly speaking, a gerrymander. 0:08:41.850 --> 0:08:46.210 It's a malapportionment of of the boundary anyway. Whatever. But 0:08:46.250 --> 0:08:50.090 it's called gerrymander in Queensland. And he inherited that and 0:08:50.130 --> 0:08:52.690 never and then never addressed it. So that helped him. Yes. 0:08:52.730 --> 0:08:57.610 So really practical, you know, faults in our democracy, but also, uh, 0:08:57.650 --> 0:09:02.450 you know, 1971 Um, Springbok tour. He let the cops 0:09:02.450 --> 0:09:05.250 loose on the protesters and that really worked for him. 0:09:05.490 --> 0:09:08.370 A lot of people really like that. They really they, 0:09:08.410 --> 0:09:12.569 you know, uh, picking out an enemy, uh, you know, um, 0:09:12.570 --> 0:09:16.650 Queensland identity, you know, we're Queenslanders, we're Australians. But yeah, 0:09:16.650 --> 0:09:19.689 we're we're like better Australians and a bit of and yep, 0:09:19.730 --> 0:09:22.489 the Melbourne and Sydney people look down on us and 0:09:22.530 --> 0:09:24.089 you know, but we really should be looking down on 0:09:24.090 --> 0:09:25.970 them because it's better here. 0:09:26.010 --> 0:09:26.410 Yeah. 0:09:26.450 --> 0:09:29.370 Yeah that really appealed. Um and that but the other 0:09:29.370 --> 0:09:32.370 thing is he delivered massive development over the time he 0:09:32.370 --> 0:09:35.490 was there. He delivered, you know, growth. Um, you know, 0:09:35.530 --> 0:09:38.370 he and not not just him, but he, he, you know, 0:09:38.450 --> 0:09:42.410 capitalism went hard. I mean, you know, mining, uh, development, 0:09:42.450 --> 0:09:45.170 you know, counting cranes on the Gold Coast. I mean, 0:09:45.210 --> 0:09:48.770 you know, that's a that's that's a lot of people 0:09:48.809 --> 0:09:52.610 got their slice of the Australian dream in that era. 0:09:52.610 --> 0:09:55.250 And whether, you know, a lot of them attributed at 0:09:55.290 --> 0:09:57.410 least that in part to Joe. 0:09:57.450 --> 0:09:59.569 What about the famous, uh, he was always famous for 0:10:00.660 --> 0:10:03.060 his rhetoric and his. I say to you, I feed 0:10:03.059 --> 0:10:04.940 the chooks, all that sort of thing. And do you 0:10:04.940 --> 0:10:07.940 think that was that was him, or was he deliberately 0:10:07.940 --> 0:10:09.780 being confusing a bit sort of Trump like? In a way, 0:10:09.820 --> 0:10:12.699 Trump sort of says what's on his mind and just 0:10:12.700 --> 0:10:13.700 blasts it out there. 0:10:13.740 --> 0:10:17.859 That's that's fascinating because he's a smart guy. Not not 0:10:17.900 --> 0:10:21.700 not classically articulate, but really, you know, you know what 0:10:21.740 --> 0:10:24.740 some people call them cunning. Some people, you know, someone 0:10:24.740 --> 0:10:27.100 calls them God. One of the you know, David Littleproud 0:10:27.100 --> 0:10:29.740 calls them God. You know, um, I mean, you know, 0:10:29.780 --> 0:10:35.020 it's it's, you know, he's um, the way he express 0:10:35.020 --> 0:10:38.980 himself is absolutely because of Trump. Partly. But also he's 0:10:38.980 --> 0:10:43.660 just you know what? He never he never he never 0:10:43.660 --> 0:10:47.579 felt like talking down at us. I think that's one 0:10:47.580 --> 0:10:49.780 of the key things. And watching hours and hours of archive. 0:10:49.820 --> 0:10:51.380 I mean, when you put him up, we cut him 0:10:51.380 --> 0:10:55.620 up against Gough Whitlam, you know, Fulbright, you know, um, 0:10:55.660 --> 0:10:59.980 and Bob Katter calls Gough Whitlam, you know, arrogant and 0:11:00.620 --> 0:11:04.100 couldn't see it coming. Couldn't see, couldn't, couldn't see the 0:11:04.100 --> 0:11:07.060 opposition coming. And I don't think Gough Whitlam's out of 0:11:07.059 --> 0:11:09.620 touch with Australians, but he was he was definitely a 0:11:09.660 --> 0:11:12.260 guy that you look up to. Whereas I think people, 0:11:12.300 --> 0:11:15.860 especially Queenslanders, felt looked, felt they were looking across at Joe. 0:11:16.020 --> 0:11:18.660 I mean, Joe had a lot of power. He garnered, 0:11:18.660 --> 0:11:21.100 he garnered power, he held on to it. He maximised 0:11:21.100 --> 0:11:24.020 his power and he wielded it. So you weren't looking 0:11:24.020 --> 0:11:25.540 at across at him. You were looking at Upham. He 0:11:25.540 --> 0:11:27.260 was a very, very powerful man. And if you got 0:11:27.300 --> 0:11:29.220 on the wrong side of him, that would, you know, 0:11:29.220 --> 0:11:31.340 the consequences could be brutal. 0:11:31.580 --> 0:11:33.940 Well, it sounds like it's a fascinating doco. And you're right, 0:11:33.940 --> 0:11:36.580 a lot of people today still yearn for the years 0:11:36.580 --> 0:11:38.220 of Joe. And a lot of people love him as 0:11:38.220 --> 0:11:40.900 many hate and don't like as well. So this sounds 0:11:40.900 --> 0:11:45.860 like it's fascinating, warts and all. Uh, Joe, last king 0:11:45.900 --> 0:11:49.260 of Queensland. I can't wait to have a look at it. And, uh, congratulations. 0:11:49.260 --> 0:11:50.620 I really appreciate your time. 0:11:51.300 --> 0:11:54.020 No, thanks. I hope people enjoy it on Stan. And, uh, 0:11:54.059 --> 0:11:59.540 and and, you know, argue, um, you know, laugh, cry, cheer, because, 0:11:59.580 --> 0:12:00.540 you know, it's important.