1 00:00:09,830 --> 00:00:12,860 S1: Hey there. I'm Osman Farooqui and this is The Drop, 2 00:00:12,860 --> 00:00:15,739 S1: a weekly culture show from the Sydney Morning Herald and 3 00:00:15,740 --> 00:00:18,049 S1: The Age, where we dive into the latest in the 4 00:00:18,050 --> 00:00:22,489 S1: world of pop culture and entertainment. Succession is probably my 5 00:00:22,489 --> 00:00:25,520 S1: favorite TV show of the past couple of years. The 6 00:00:25,520 --> 00:00:29,180 S1: HBO series, which airs in Australia on Binge, is the 7 00:00:29,180 --> 00:00:32,270 S1: brainchild of Jesse Armstrong, who's written some of my other 8 00:00:32,270 --> 00:00:36,230 S1: favorite shows of all time, including Peep Show, Fresh Meat, 9 00:00:36,229 --> 00:00:40,160 S1: and of course, The Thick of It. Succession is part satire, 10 00:00:40,159 --> 00:00:44,240 S1: part black comedy, part drama. It's an examination of the 11 00:00:44,240 --> 00:00:48,229 S1: current state of media and politics, how power corrupts and 12 00:00:48,229 --> 00:00:51,650 S1: family dynamics. It's won a stack of Emmys, and it's 13 00:00:51,650 --> 00:00:54,920 S1: about to return for a fourth and final season to 14 00:00:54,920 --> 00:00:58,100 S1: help break down the show, its impact, and to help 15 00:00:58,100 --> 00:01:01,460 S1: prepare for the upcoming season, I'm joined by my colleagues 16 00:01:01,460 --> 00:01:08,830 S1: Thomas Mitchell and Meg Watson. Meg Watson. How are you doing? 17 00:01:09,040 --> 00:01:12,790 S1: I'm doing good. I'm excited. Thomas Mitchell, how are you? 18 00:01:12,970 --> 00:01:15,130 S2: I'm also doing well and also very excited. 19 00:01:15,640 --> 00:01:17,170 S1: I think you guys are right to be excited. This 20 00:01:17,170 --> 00:01:19,990 S1: is going to be a big episode. There's a lot 21 00:01:19,990 --> 00:01:22,930 S1: to talk about ahead of the return of succession, which 22 00:01:22,930 --> 00:01:26,740 S1: kicks off next week, Season four. The first thing I 23 00:01:26,740 --> 00:01:29,319 S1: think to flag with listeners, we've mentioned this once before 24 00:01:29,319 --> 00:01:30,940 S1: on the pod, but it's the first time we're announcing 25 00:01:30,940 --> 00:01:33,100 S1: it with both of you guys here. We're going to 26 00:01:33,100 --> 00:01:36,880 S1: be doing recaps of the fourth and final season every week, 27 00:01:36,880 --> 00:01:39,940 S1: the three of us starting from next week. So here's 28 00:01:39,940 --> 00:01:43,479 S1: how it'll work. Episodes of succession are going to air 29 00:01:43,480 --> 00:01:46,390 S1: on Binge on Mondays, and then on Tuesday morning there'll 30 00:01:46,390 --> 00:01:50,500 S1: be a fresh episode of this podcast featuring you, Thomas, 31 00:01:50,500 --> 00:01:55,390 S1: you and me, us discussing the most recent episode, talking 32 00:01:55,390 --> 00:01:59,140 S1: about our favorite moments, analyzing the performances, how the story 33 00:01:59,140 --> 00:02:02,230 S1: is progressing, ranking the characters. And we're going to have 34 00:02:02,230 --> 00:02:07,600 S1: some special interviews from cast and crew of Succession as well. Meg, 35 00:02:07,600 --> 00:02:08,320 S1: you excited? 36 00:02:08,710 --> 00:02:11,500 S3: I'm so excited that I get to do this professionally 37 00:02:11,500 --> 00:02:13,120 S3: for money and not just in my free time. 38 00:02:13,570 --> 00:02:15,430 S1: Yeah, we kind of talk about it all the time, 39 00:02:15,820 --> 00:02:17,380 S1: so I may as well stick a microphone in front 40 00:02:17,380 --> 00:02:19,600 S1: of us. Thomas How are you feeling? You keen? 41 00:02:19,600 --> 00:02:23,080 S2: I am very keen. I think succession is one of 42 00:02:23,080 --> 00:02:26,680 S2: those shows that, I mean, it's hard not to think 43 00:02:26,680 --> 00:02:29,230 S2: about it when you're not watching the show anyway. So 44 00:02:29,230 --> 00:02:32,590 S2: I think I'm mostly concerned about trying to like fit 45 00:02:32,590 --> 00:02:36,070 S2: all of my week thoughts into one podcast episode, but 46 00:02:36,070 --> 00:02:37,060 S2: I think we'll be able to do it. 47 00:02:37,210 --> 00:02:38,919 S1: The good news is you're also going to be writing 48 00:02:38,919 --> 00:02:42,340 S1: recaps for us so you can read Thomas words on 49 00:02:42,340 --> 00:02:44,829 S1: the Sydney Morning Herald and The Age websites as well. 50 00:02:44,830 --> 00:02:47,650 S1: Lots of opportunities, Thomas, for you to offload all your 51 00:02:47,650 --> 00:02:49,630 S1: feelings about this season of the show. 52 00:02:49,690 --> 00:02:51,160 S3: Have you been thinking about it for more than a 53 00:02:51,160 --> 00:02:53,429 S3: year now? Just every day I know. 54 00:02:53,440 --> 00:02:55,180 S2: Well, it's so weird because like, as we were prepping 55 00:02:55,180 --> 00:02:57,429 S2: for this, the fact that it's been over a year 56 00:02:57,430 --> 00:03:00,820 S2: since the finale is that's not really unusual. But I 57 00:03:00,820 --> 00:03:02,740 S2: guess for a big show, it makes a lot of sense. 58 00:03:02,740 --> 00:03:05,290 S2: But yeah, you kind of have to you have to 59 00:03:05,350 --> 00:03:07,330 S2: people should be listening to this podcast purely for the 60 00:03:07,330 --> 00:03:09,310 S2: purpose that you really need a refresher before you go 61 00:03:09,310 --> 00:03:12,730 S2: into a show that requires so much like consideration anyway. 62 00:03:12,850 --> 00:03:14,590 S1: Yeah, I think that's why we wanted to do this 63 00:03:14,590 --> 00:03:17,200 S1: episode like a few days before the new season comes 64 00:03:17,200 --> 00:03:19,990 S1: out because it has been a year between drinks when 65 00:03:19,990 --> 00:03:22,899 S1: it comes to succession. There's been a lot of news 66 00:03:22,900 --> 00:03:24,610 S1: in that time, including something that we'll talk about a 67 00:03:24,610 --> 00:03:26,739 S1: bit later on. The fact that this will be the 68 00:03:26,740 --> 00:03:31,030 S1: final season of the show and an opportunity to revisit 69 00:03:31,030 --> 00:03:33,670 S1: and remind listeners of just what's going on and kind 70 00:03:33,669 --> 00:03:37,720 S1: of what's at stake. So ahead of those recaps, I 71 00:03:37,720 --> 00:03:39,790 S1: feel like this episode is a bit of a curtain raiser. 72 00:03:39,790 --> 00:03:42,400 S1: It's a refresher on what the Roys have been up to, 73 00:03:42,400 --> 00:03:45,160 S1: and I think a discussion about the show and its 74 00:03:45,160 --> 00:03:49,480 S1: impact more broadly, starting with a pretty big question for 75 00:03:49,480 --> 00:03:53,230 S1: each of you in terms of this show's impact. Is 76 00:03:53,230 --> 00:03:55,990 S1: it the best show on TV? What do you think, Mick? 77 00:03:57,130 --> 00:03:59,950 S3: I mean, I don't think you can call anything the 78 00:03:59,950 --> 00:04:03,250 S3: best show on TV just because it's not an objective thing, right? 79 00:04:03,250 --> 00:04:05,500 S3: Like it's the best comedy. Is it the best drama? 80 00:04:05,620 --> 00:04:07,540 S3: There's an argument to be made for both of those things, 81 00:04:07,540 --> 00:04:11,020 S3: I suppose. But in terms of doing what it does 82 00:04:11,020 --> 00:04:14,380 S3: as well as it does, I think it's pretty unparalleled, 83 00:04:14,380 --> 00:04:16,870 S3: at least with what's on TV at the moment. I mean, 84 00:04:16,870 --> 00:04:19,210 S3: the fact that it is a tragedy, it is a comedy, 85 00:04:19,210 --> 00:04:21,700 S3: it does all these things in tandem and it is 86 00:04:21,700 --> 00:04:25,029 S3: such a great satire as well. Like every you can 87 00:04:25,029 --> 00:04:26,950 S3: watch it in so many ways, but everywhere you do 88 00:04:26,950 --> 00:04:28,479 S3: watch it, it's the best of what it is. 89 00:04:29,200 --> 00:04:30,610 S1: What do you think, Thomas? You willing to jump off 90 00:04:30,610 --> 00:04:31,240 S1: the fence? 91 00:04:31,360 --> 00:04:35,770 S2: It's objectively the best show on TV, but it is 92 00:04:35,770 --> 00:04:39,159 S2: like I think also you need to take into account like, context. 93 00:04:39,160 --> 00:04:41,140 S2: We're living in a time where there is so much 94 00:04:41,140 --> 00:04:44,830 S2: choice and yet succession manages to do what only used 95 00:04:44,830 --> 00:04:46,840 S2: to exist in like kind of pre streaming era, which 96 00:04:46,839 --> 00:04:49,529 S2: is like get everyone obsessing and talking about the show. 97 00:04:49,540 --> 00:04:52,180 S2: I legitimately like if someone tells me they don't want succession, 98 00:04:52,180 --> 00:04:54,849 S2: they like kind of fall down a tier and people 99 00:04:54,850 --> 00:04:57,370 S2: I have in my life so I really do think 100 00:04:57,910 --> 00:05:00,310 S2: it is the best. It's in the conversation for one 101 00:05:00,310 --> 00:05:02,020 S2: of the best shows of all time. It is without 102 00:05:02,020 --> 00:05:04,690 S2: doubt the best show on TV right now. The writing 103 00:05:04,690 --> 00:05:08,710 S2: is unrivaled. Like Meg said, it's hilarious. It kind of 104 00:05:08,710 --> 00:05:11,890 S2: takes your breath away at times, like you spend hours 105 00:05:11,890 --> 00:05:14,830 S2: thinking about it. I just think the way it manages 106 00:05:14,830 --> 00:05:18,370 S2: to do all those things and so many different things successfully. Yeah, 107 00:05:18,370 --> 00:05:20,770 S2: it's it's. It's got the crown. It's like not even 108 00:05:20,770 --> 00:05:21,550 S2: a conversation. 109 00:05:21,700 --> 00:05:25,180 S3: I have a bit of context for that, which is interesting. 110 00:05:25,180 --> 00:05:28,300 S3: And what I found before this episode is that so 111 00:05:28,480 --> 00:05:31,120 S3: far the last episode of the last season was viewed 112 00:05:31,120 --> 00:05:34,180 S3: by 1.7 million people on HBO in the US. Like 113 00:05:34,180 --> 00:05:36,909 S3: that's the overnight stats. But the last episode of the 114 00:05:36,910 --> 00:05:40,750 S3: first season of House of the Dragon was viewed by 9.9. 115 00:05:40,750 --> 00:05:43,570 S3: 3 million. So to say it's the show that gets 116 00:05:43,570 --> 00:05:46,210 S3: everyone talking week to week is maybe not true. I mean, 117 00:05:46,210 --> 00:05:47,830 S3: like that's a huge disparity. 118 00:05:47,830 --> 00:05:50,080 S1: I think that is an interesting thing about this show 119 00:05:50,080 --> 00:05:53,920 S1: in that two a certain section of the population, people 120 00:05:53,920 --> 00:05:57,339 S1: who work in media and politics and adjacent industries, it 121 00:05:57,339 --> 00:05:59,320 S1: is the biggest thing in the world. And then to 122 00:05:59,320 --> 00:06:02,919 S1: like 90% of people, they are maybe aware that it's 123 00:06:02,920 --> 00:06:05,680 S1: a thing. They don't watch it closely. I mean, I 124 00:06:05,680 --> 00:06:09,729 S1: think it's viewership and its quality not necessarily the same thing. 125 00:06:09,730 --> 00:06:12,609 S1: I mean, I have driven both of you spare, I think, 126 00:06:12,610 --> 00:06:15,760 S1: by talking about Yellowstone, which is a great show that 127 00:06:15,760 --> 00:06:18,700 S1: is watched by hundreds of millions of people around the 128 00:06:18,700 --> 00:06:21,970 S1: world and is not discussed by anywhere near as many 129 00:06:21,970 --> 00:06:24,460 S1: people in the media as something like succession because it 130 00:06:24,460 --> 00:06:27,490 S1: doesn't kind of hit as close to home. I kind 131 00:06:27,490 --> 00:06:29,890 S1: of am closer to Thomas on the question of whether 132 00:06:29,890 --> 00:06:32,110 S1: this is the best show. I think, Meg, while you're 133 00:06:32,110 --> 00:06:35,920 S1: obviously right that there's so many different kind of frameworks 134 00:06:35,920 --> 00:06:38,230 S1: and layers to the conversation of what kind of show 135 00:06:38,230 --> 00:06:40,750 S1: is succession, is it right to compare it to a 136 00:06:40,750 --> 00:06:43,270 S1: comedy or to a drama or to a family saga 137 00:06:43,270 --> 00:06:47,720 S1: like House of the Dragon, I think. It doesn't really 138 00:06:47,720 --> 00:06:49,520 S1: matter to me what sort of genre you want to 139 00:06:49,520 --> 00:06:53,390 S1: put it in, though, because as Thomas was saying, when 140 00:06:53,390 --> 00:06:57,740 S1: it comes to something that is written well, acted well shot, incredibly, 141 00:06:57,740 --> 00:07:01,550 S1: that has propulsive storytelling, that says something about the moment 142 00:07:01,550 --> 00:07:03,500 S1: that we live in, which is what all of those 143 00:07:03,500 --> 00:07:06,429 S1: things are. What I want from great art and great TV. 144 00:07:06,440 --> 00:07:08,510 S1: It is like ten out of ten on all of 145 00:07:08,510 --> 00:07:11,090 S1: those things. I think the question about whether it's one 146 00:07:11,090 --> 00:07:13,940 S1: of the best shows ever is tighter. But I think 147 00:07:13,940 --> 00:07:16,340 S1: like you, Thomas, I think it's in the conversation. Like 148 00:07:16,340 --> 00:07:18,800 S1: I think in ten years at the moment, we talk 149 00:07:18,800 --> 00:07:21,590 S1: about shows like The Sopranos and The Wire being the 150 00:07:21,590 --> 00:07:23,600 S1: sort of top of the list. I think in ten 151 00:07:23,600 --> 00:07:27,110 S1: years when there's a bit of space between succession airing 152 00:07:27,110 --> 00:07:31,010 S1: and us talking about the critical conversation around it, I 153 00:07:31,010 --> 00:07:33,820 S1: think succession will be in that top tier as well. 154 00:07:33,830 --> 00:07:36,950 S3: I agree. And I mean, I know the audience here. 155 00:07:36,950 --> 00:07:38,420 S3: Like I'm not going to say succession is not a 156 00:07:38,420 --> 00:07:39,170 S3: great show. 157 00:07:40,160 --> 00:07:41,300 S1: I don't know why I'm trying to bully you into 158 00:07:41,300 --> 00:07:42,860 S1: being like, Mike, why do you hate succession? 159 00:07:43,400 --> 00:07:47,210 S3: Why don't you agree to do this podcast? And yeah, 160 00:07:47,210 --> 00:07:48,890 S3: I'm not bringing up the viewership numbers because I think 161 00:07:48,890 --> 00:07:50,420 S3: House of the Dragon is a better show. I don't 162 00:07:50,450 --> 00:07:52,040 S3: even think it's that good of a show, but it 163 00:07:52,040 --> 00:07:54,520 S3: is interesting to see that kind of discrepancy. 164 00:07:54,530 --> 00:07:56,600 S2: It is funny actually, because when you think about that 165 00:07:56,600 --> 00:07:59,239 S2: Sunday night HBO slot, it's such like that's like the 166 00:07:59,240 --> 00:08:02,990 S2: Holy Grail for any show. And yeah, it is interesting. Like, 167 00:08:02,990 --> 00:08:04,730 S2: I don't know if succession viewers in the States are 168 00:08:04,730 --> 00:08:07,280 S2: watching like later on in the week or something. But 169 00:08:07,280 --> 00:08:08,870 S2: I mean, if I was living there, I would definitely 170 00:08:08,870 --> 00:08:10,850 S2: be watching Sunday night because it's like the ideal time 171 00:08:10,850 --> 00:08:12,950 S2: to watch it before the week. But yeah, that does 172 00:08:12,950 --> 00:08:15,080 S2: that does kind of put things into context. But yes, 173 00:08:15,080 --> 00:08:16,670 S2: I stand by my point. I will die on this 174 00:08:16,670 --> 00:08:18,200 S2: hill forever. 175 00:08:18,320 --> 00:08:20,150 S1: You won't be alone, my friend. You've got my you've 176 00:08:20,150 --> 00:08:21,920 S1: got my sword, I think. I mean, I think this 177 00:08:21,920 --> 00:08:24,650 S1: is an interesting point to talk about what the show 178 00:08:24,650 --> 00:08:27,170 S1: is kind of about, because I've got people in my life, 179 00:08:27,170 --> 00:08:30,110 S1: even people who work in the media and in politics 180 00:08:30,110 --> 00:08:33,260 S1: who don't watch succession, which I'm really intrigued by. And 181 00:08:33,260 --> 00:08:36,020 S1: I think it is a good reminder that even though 182 00:08:36,020 --> 00:08:38,240 S1: those of us who are in the succession hive are 183 00:08:38,240 --> 00:08:41,030 S1: really deeply in. But there's an opportunity here for a 184 00:08:41,030 --> 00:08:43,040 S1: bunch of people who haven't paid attention for the last 185 00:08:43,040 --> 00:08:45,050 S1: three years to jump on board. So it might be 186 00:08:45,050 --> 00:08:47,929 S1: worth giving people a bit of a primer on just 187 00:08:47,929 --> 00:08:51,260 S1: basically what the hell happened in this show. It's a 188 00:08:51,260 --> 00:08:54,020 S1: kind of top level. It follows the saga of the 189 00:08:54,020 --> 00:08:57,740 S1: Roy family, who the patriarch is Logan Roy, played by 190 00:08:57,740 --> 00:09:01,820 S1: Brian Cox. He's in charge of a fictional company called 191 00:09:01,820 --> 00:09:05,179 S1: Waystar Royco, which is kind of like a Fox News 192 00:09:05,179 --> 00:09:10,010 S1: meets Disney sort of media conglomerate. They have right wing 193 00:09:10,010 --> 00:09:14,780 S1: cable news network. They own newspapers. They own a cruise 194 00:09:14,780 --> 00:09:18,770 S1: sort of liner arm. They have theme parks. It's just 195 00:09:18,770 --> 00:09:24,679 S1: basically a giant media conglomerate. And the main driver for 196 00:09:24,679 --> 00:09:28,190 S1: the plot in the first season is Logan. Roy is 197 00:09:28,190 --> 00:09:32,030 S1: quite ill and it sparks his battle of succession amongst 198 00:09:32,030 --> 00:09:35,870 S1: his children. And the first season sort of follows. I 199 00:09:35,870 --> 00:09:39,800 S1: guess the more direct story is Kendall Roy, his son, 200 00:09:40,010 --> 00:09:43,370 S1: played by Jeremy Strong, who attempts to inherit the throne 201 00:09:43,370 --> 00:09:46,760 S1: even to the extent of taking a shot at his dad, 202 00:09:46,760 --> 00:09:49,250 S1: trying to organize a boardroom coup, get him out of 203 00:09:49,250 --> 00:09:51,170 S1: the company because he thinks he's senile and he's losing 204 00:09:51,170 --> 00:09:54,980 S1: the plot and take over. Over the course of the 205 00:09:54,980 --> 00:09:58,250 S1: three seasons of the show, we basically see each of 206 00:09:58,250 --> 00:10:02,000 S1: the different kids. There's four of them battle it out 207 00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:05,179 S1: for the right to take on the ownership and control 208 00:10:05,179 --> 00:10:08,270 S1: of Waystar Royco I think the second season to me 209 00:10:08,270 --> 00:10:11,390 S1: feels a bit more focused on Shiv, played by Sarah Snook, 210 00:10:11,390 --> 00:10:15,020 S1: who's an Australian actor. And then the third season I 211 00:10:15,020 --> 00:10:18,710 S1: guess we see a little bit more of Roman, played 212 00:10:18,710 --> 00:10:21,560 S1: by Kieran Culkin, making a real bid to be the 213 00:10:21,559 --> 00:10:25,400 S1: guy who should inherit the throne. But across all three seasons, 214 00:10:25,400 --> 00:10:29,179 S1: it's not just a story of who should become the 215 00:10:29,179 --> 00:10:32,810 S1: CEO of this corporate monolith, but it's also really a 216 00:10:32,809 --> 00:10:36,710 S1: story about sibling rivalry. It's about getting affection from daddy. 217 00:10:36,710 --> 00:10:41,810 S1: It's an exploration of modern American politics and media culture. 218 00:10:41,870 --> 00:10:43,730 S1: I mean, do you think have I left anything out? 219 00:10:43,730 --> 00:10:44,929 S1: That's kind of what the show is about. 220 00:10:45,170 --> 00:10:46,610 S3: Yeah, I think that's all of it. I think it's 221 00:10:46,610 --> 00:10:50,300 S3: fitting you didn't even mention Connor in the four kids. 222 00:10:50,300 --> 00:10:52,850 S1: There's a there's an older son who is just. 223 00:10:52,850 --> 00:10:54,199 S3: So he's trying to be president. 224 00:10:54,200 --> 00:10:56,210 S1: Yeah, I mean, that's true. That ends up becoming a 225 00:10:56,210 --> 00:10:58,610 S1: big part of the most recent season. He's got 1%. 226 00:10:58,610 --> 00:10:59,209 S3: Of the vote. 227 00:10:59,750 --> 00:11:00,710 S1: Is that how much he has? 228 00:11:00,710 --> 00:11:01,849 S3: Yeah, it's very proud. 229 00:11:03,440 --> 00:11:06,860 S2: No, that was, I think, pretty like all encompassing. It's 230 00:11:06,860 --> 00:11:09,770 S2: I suppose it's also a show where the point is 231 00:11:09,770 --> 00:11:13,550 S2: that you're not supposed to like anybody, and yet you 232 00:11:13,550 --> 00:11:15,950 S2: get sucked into everybody. I know that's one. 233 00:11:15,950 --> 00:11:17,690 S1: Of the reasons why some of the people I know 234 00:11:17,690 --> 00:11:19,880 S1: who tried to give the show a go, particularly in 235 00:11:19,880 --> 00:11:22,819 S1: season one, didn't really stick around because I didn't find 236 00:11:22,820 --> 00:11:27,260 S1: anyone quote unquote, likable. Is that a relevant factor when 237 00:11:27,260 --> 00:11:29,449 S1: you think about the quality of the show, whether or 238 00:11:29,450 --> 00:11:33,110 S1: not people haven't jumped on, should this question of like likability, 239 00:11:33,110 --> 00:11:34,700 S1: What do you think? THOMAS Yeah. 240 00:11:34,700 --> 00:11:36,380 S2: I think I mean, I feel like TV has been 241 00:11:36,380 --> 00:11:39,110 S2: priming us for shows like Succession. You know, we've had 242 00:11:39,110 --> 00:11:42,470 S2: so many like anti-heroes in like the Don Drapers and 243 00:11:42,470 --> 00:11:45,620 S2: Tony Soprano's and even like Walter White, you know, we've 244 00:11:45,620 --> 00:11:50,059 S2: been like. Of condition to follow these lead stars who 245 00:11:50,059 --> 00:11:52,580 S2: aren't exactly likable. And then succession is just like this 246 00:11:52,580 --> 00:11:55,370 S2: overload of everyone in the show is awful. But I mean, 247 00:11:55,370 --> 00:11:58,130 S2: for me as a viewer, it doesn't matter anymore. Because, 248 00:11:58,280 --> 00:12:00,020 S2: I mean, the thing I love about succession is that 249 00:12:00,020 --> 00:12:02,780 S2: it is so terrifyingly relatable. Even though these people exist 250 00:12:02,780 --> 00:12:06,140 S2: in a world I could never exist in. But the 251 00:12:06,140 --> 00:12:09,110 S2: way they interact, the family dynamics, the even the way 252 00:12:09,110 --> 00:12:10,580 S2: they speak to each other and the way they make 253 00:12:10,580 --> 00:12:13,610 S2: fun of one another is so relatable. And so I 254 00:12:13,610 --> 00:12:16,040 S2: think I get more from that, from seeing, you know, 255 00:12:16,040 --> 00:12:18,650 S2: myself or the people I know on screen in that 256 00:12:18,650 --> 00:12:20,929 S2: way then and whether or not, you know, Kendall is 257 00:12:20,929 --> 00:12:23,900 S2: a good guy or Logan is a friendly CEO, like 258 00:12:23,900 --> 00:12:25,820 S2: I don't need to like characters to enjoy a show. 259 00:12:25,820 --> 00:12:28,850 S2: And I think that's something that's been, you know, taught 260 00:12:28,850 --> 00:12:31,280 S2: to me. By the way, TV has developed. Yeah. 261 00:12:31,280 --> 00:12:33,050 S1: Has anyone you're rooting for Mega? Is that the wrong 262 00:12:33,050 --> 00:12:34,250 S1: question to ask? 263 00:12:34,490 --> 00:12:36,320 S3: I think it's the wrong question to ask. I think 264 00:12:36,320 --> 00:12:39,650 S3: season one especially sets us up to root for Greg. 265 00:12:39,650 --> 00:12:42,980 S3: So he kind of comes in Cousin Greg, this distant 266 00:12:42,980 --> 00:12:45,319 S3: cousin of the family. He comes in in the first 267 00:12:45,320 --> 00:12:48,740 S3: episode and he's the viewers kind of into the world. 268 00:12:48,740 --> 00:12:52,790 S3: I suppose he's just a normal ish guy. I think 269 00:12:52,790 --> 00:12:54,230 S3: in that first episode you see him working at the 270 00:12:54,230 --> 00:12:56,780 S3: theme park and like getting stoned and throwing up in 271 00:12:56,780 --> 00:13:00,470 S3: the mascot head. So, you know, relatable, I guess, but more. 272 00:13:00,470 --> 00:13:02,210 S1: Relatable than certainly the other siblings. 273 00:13:02,210 --> 00:13:08,179 S4: Yeah. This is Craig, by the way. Cousin Craig. 274 00:13:09,650 --> 00:13:13,850 S5: Craig. It's. It's Greg. No. Yeah. 275 00:13:14,330 --> 00:13:20,720 S6: Greg People sometimes, like, mistakenly call me Greg too, so 276 00:13:20,720 --> 00:13:22,250 S6: I'll answer to both. 277 00:13:22,250 --> 00:13:24,980 S3: So I think at the start, you're kind of rooting 278 00:13:24,980 --> 00:13:28,700 S3: for him, I suppose, or at least following his journey. 279 00:13:28,700 --> 00:13:32,870 S3: You're seeing things through his eyes as the seasons progressed. 280 00:13:32,870 --> 00:13:34,910 S3: There's a case to be made that you're not rooting 281 00:13:34,910 --> 00:13:36,920 S3: for Greg anymore. He gets pretty corrupted along the way, 282 00:13:36,920 --> 00:13:38,420 S3: but I think that's the point of the show. I 283 00:13:38,420 --> 00:13:41,840 S3: think you root for certain people at various moments and 284 00:13:41,840 --> 00:13:46,160 S3: then something flips quite quickly, quite tragically, and you realize 285 00:13:46,160 --> 00:13:48,140 S3: you shouldn't have even been doing that. They're all terrible. 286 00:13:48,410 --> 00:13:50,780 S1: I think that's right. I mean, I, I sometimes I 287 00:13:50,809 --> 00:13:54,770 S1: find that discourse a bit frustrating. Oh, there's no good guys. Like, 288 00:13:54,770 --> 00:13:57,560 S1: who am I supposed to go for this TV? Like, 289 00:13:57,559 --> 00:14:01,069 S1: it's not a video game. It's a pretty sharp whilst 290 00:14:01,070 --> 00:14:04,699 S1: being very funny, still kind of confronting. Look at the 291 00:14:04,700 --> 00:14:07,189 S1: center of power in the world that we live in. 292 00:14:07,190 --> 00:14:10,460 S1: And yeah, sorry that there's no quote unquote good guys, 293 00:14:10,460 --> 00:14:12,260 S1: but this is the real world. 294 00:14:12,710 --> 00:14:15,530 S3: I think we're I mean, you mentioned all the anti-heroes, Thomas, 295 00:14:15,530 --> 00:14:18,260 S3: of like Breaking Bad and, you know, Mad Men, which 296 00:14:18,260 --> 00:14:20,180 S3: is true. And there's parallels there. But I think it's 297 00:14:20,180 --> 00:14:22,430 S3: also a thing in comedy now as well. I mean, 298 00:14:22,430 --> 00:14:25,670 S3: think of shows like Seinfeld and Always Sunny. These are 299 00:14:25,670 --> 00:14:28,310 S3: all bad people and they were set up to be bad. 300 00:14:28,310 --> 00:14:31,880 S3: But we've become trained to seek pleasure in that, to 301 00:14:31,880 --> 00:14:34,130 S3: see people repeating each other down or having the best 302 00:14:34,130 --> 00:14:37,040 S3: one line, our best insult, which the show does so 303 00:14:37,040 --> 00:14:39,230 S3: well as well. So I think that's a big part 304 00:14:39,230 --> 00:14:41,870 S3: of it. I mean, Kieran Culkin's character alone is great. 305 00:14:41,870 --> 00:14:43,550 S1: Yeah. And I think I think the other thing in 306 00:14:43,550 --> 00:14:47,540 S1: season one, at least early on, you get a pretty 307 00:14:47,540 --> 00:14:50,780 S1: clear sense that Logan Roy is like evil, like he's 308 00:14:50,780 --> 00:14:53,510 S1: a bad guy who covers up heinous crimes and uses 309 00:14:53,510 --> 00:14:56,990 S1: his power for bad. And Kendall is supposed to be 310 00:14:56,990 --> 00:15:00,140 S1: a fresher face who's a at least a little bit 311 00:15:00,140 --> 00:15:02,630 S1: aware of some of the problems with society. But I 312 00:15:02,630 --> 00:15:04,670 S1: don't know. I sort of figured out, at least by 313 00:15:04,670 --> 00:15:07,970 S1: the end of season one one, he actually kills someone. 314 00:15:07,970 --> 00:15:10,250 S1: So he's not a great guy. And two, whatever his 315 00:15:10,250 --> 00:15:12,860 S1: vision for the company is, is kind of a bit. 316 00:15:13,470 --> 00:15:16,170 S1: Disconnected from reality as well. Like none of these kids 317 00:15:16,170 --> 00:15:20,670 S1: motivations in wanting to inherit this toxic, evil, powerful organization 318 00:15:20,670 --> 00:15:22,980 S1: is to do good with it. Or like, the best 319 00:15:22,980 --> 00:15:26,160 S1: thing you could do with Waystar Royco is like forcibly 320 00:15:26,160 --> 00:15:28,650 S1: demerge it or have most of its executive and board 321 00:15:28,650 --> 00:15:31,200 S1: sent to prison. None of these kids want that. They 322 00:15:31,200 --> 00:15:33,180 S1: want it for their own ends or just to prove 323 00:15:33,180 --> 00:15:36,150 S1: that they are successful. And I think not only does 324 00:15:36,150 --> 00:15:37,830 S1: that make it pretty clear that going for any of 325 00:15:37,830 --> 00:15:39,480 S1: them is a bit of a weird thing to do, 326 00:15:39,480 --> 00:15:43,560 S1: but I think it highlights exactly how these things operate. 327 00:15:43,560 --> 00:15:46,890 S1: Like it's just an insight into what people playing politics 328 00:15:46,890 --> 00:15:49,500 S1: and business at that level are trying to do. 329 00:15:49,740 --> 00:15:51,450 S3: I mean, think of how much Shiv has changed over 330 00:15:51,450 --> 00:15:52,110 S3: the season. Here's a. 331 00:15:52,110 --> 00:15:52,830 S7: Toast. 332 00:15:52,890 --> 00:15:56,310 S8: To me. I'm Shiv fucking Roy. If I was CEO of. 333 00:15:56,310 --> 00:16:00,150 S9: Waystar, I mean. I mean you, honey, are going to 334 00:16:00,150 --> 00:16:01,740 S9: be something huge. Yeah. 335 00:16:02,280 --> 00:16:04,530 S3: Sure. In season one, she was working for, like, a 336 00:16:04,530 --> 00:16:09,120 S3: Bernie Sanders type progressive in in Washington and, like, fighting 337 00:16:09,120 --> 00:16:11,760 S3: the good fight. She's not doing that at all anymore. 338 00:16:11,760 --> 00:16:14,370 S3: And you could argue that she was never sincere in 339 00:16:14,370 --> 00:16:15,150 S3: that anyway. 340 00:16:15,150 --> 00:16:17,610 S2: Yeah, it's funny. I think like I think with the 341 00:16:17,640 --> 00:16:21,660 S2: with the Roy siblings, there are like shades of evil, arguably. 342 00:16:21,660 --> 00:16:24,900 S2: You definitely don't want Roman running the company like he 343 00:16:24,900 --> 00:16:27,330 S2: has shown before. Even the way he covered up the 344 00:16:27,330 --> 00:16:30,210 S2: whole rocket saga, like he has shown before, that he 345 00:16:30,210 --> 00:16:33,270 S2: would probably push the envelope the furthest out of maybe 346 00:16:33,270 --> 00:16:34,560 S2: him and Kendall Hill. 347 00:16:34,560 --> 00:16:36,510 S3: Endorse the Nazi presidential candidate. 348 00:16:36,510 --> 00:16:39,150 S2: Yeah, exactly. Whereas I think Shiv, you know, like you said, 349 00:16:39,150 --> 00:16:41,010 S2: she did kind of work for a Bernie Sanders type. 350 00:16:41,010 --> 00:16:42,810 S2: She had it in her. But then that being said, 351 00:16:42,810 --> 00:16:46,260 S2: she also is like pretty ruthless when she needs to be. So, yeah, 352 00:16:46,410 --> 00:16:48,060 S2: and I think that's what's so funny about succession is 353 00:16:48,060 --> 00:16:51,780 S2: that it really shows that even though these kids have 354 00:16:51,780 --> 00:16:54,600 S2: grown up with like a proximity to power and been 355 00:16:54,660 --> 00:16:57,750 S2: have wanted for nothing, there, none of them doesn't really 356 00:16:57,750 --> 00:17:01,500 S2: qualify them at all to be successful CEO like they 357 00:17:01,500 --> 00:17:03,480 S2: would all be terrible at running the company. They would. 358 00:17:03,480 --> 00:17:04,770 S1: Be. And I think I think this is a really 359 00:17:04,770 --> 00:17:08,100 S1: interesting point to bring. In the finale of season three, 360 00:17:08,100 --> 00:17:11,940 S1: which is the most recent episode of the show, because 361 00:17:11,940 --> 00:17:15,450 S1: I think it brings a few things home throughout the 362 00:17:15,450 --> 00:17:19,350 S1: three seasons of succession. And as these kids sort of 363 00:17:19,350 --> 00:17:23,640 S1: swing around each other, sometimes forming temporary alliances against the dad, 364 00:17:23,640 --> 00:17:27,149 S1: sometimes being seduced by their dad to sort of crush 365 00:17:27,150 --> 00:17:30,000 S1: the other ones, you sort of hope that they all 366 00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:32,280 S1: get together at some point and realize that for all 367 00:17:32,280 --> 00:17:36,060 S1: their flaws, each of them, if they if they work together, 368 00:17:36,060 --> 00:17:38,550 S1: the three or even the four of them are probably 369 00:17:38,550 --> 00:17:41,040 S1: going to be better than whatever Logan's up to. And 370 00:17:41,040 --> 00:17:43,500 S1: then they kind of do at the end of season 371 00:17:43,500 --> 00:17:47,490 S1: three and they get completely fucked over. And Logan says 372 00:17:47,490 --> 00:17:50,939 S1: something so interesting, he's basically saying to them, Go do 373 00:17:50,940 --> 00:17:54,630 S1: your own thing. And I think in a way from 374 00:17:54,630 --> 00:17:57,240 S1: him that's like a bit hypocritical because he's clearly been 375 00:17:57,240 --> 00:17:59,910 S1: leading all of them on for his own ends, so 376 00:17:59,910 --> 00:18:02,190 S1: to say, I'm going to make you the CEO only 377 00:18:02,190 --> 00:18:03,720 S1: for the last minute to pull the rug out from 378 00:18:03,720 --> 00:18:05,940 S1: under them and say, make your own thing, it's a 379 00:18:05,940 --> 00:18:08,220 S1: bit rough, but I think he's kind of right. Like, 380 00:18:08,220 --> 00:18:10,200 S1: why do these guys think that they should be entitled 381 00:18:10,200 --> 00:18:14,370 S1: to inherit this completely evil, crazy company when they have 382 00:18:14,369 --> 00:18:16,920 S1: had everything handed to them on a platter? And if 383 00:18:16,920 --> 00:18:19,439 S1: they really wanted to prove how smart and successful they were, 384 00:18:19,470 --> 00:18:21,840 S1: they could just go and do it. Like Shiv kind 385 00:18:21,840 --> 00:18:23,550 S1: of had a political career. Maybe she would have been 386 00:18:23,550 --> 00:18:26,490 S1: better off pursuing that. Maybe Logan should have just teamed 387 00:18:26,490 --> 00:18:28,890 S1: up with the guy who ran that sort of vice 388 00:18:28,890 --> 00:18:35,070 S1: esque production media company in the first season and JP R.I.P., R.I.P. Volta. 389 00:18:35,640 --> 00:18:42,420 S1: I mean, yeah, I. I kind of can't fault Logan 390 00:18:42,420 --> 00:18:43,290 S1: at that point. 391 00:18:43,530 --> 00:18:45,300 S2: Are you saying you see a lot of yourself in Logan? 392 00:18:47,220 --> 00:18:49,710 S1: No, I didn't. It's like it's like you say this 393 00:18:49,710 --> 00:18:54,930 S1: sometimes in different kinds of real world business examples where 394 00:18:54,930 --> 00:18:58,379 S1: there's a generation of people who built something, right? And 395 00:18:58,680 --> 00:19:01,080 S1: they have worked hard and they kind of started from nothing, 396 00:19:01,080 --> 00:19:03,510 S1: which is sort of the Logan story in this. And 397 00:19:03,510 --> 00:19:06,600 S1: they've created something big and powerful and it's corrupted them, 398 00:19:06,600 --> 00:19:11,040 S1: but they still have some sense of how to gather 399 00:19:11,040 --> 00:19:14,159 S1: and execute political power and be the smartest strategist because 400 00:19:14,160 --> 00:19:16,170 S1: they had to do it. And ultimately, I think that's 401 00:19:16,170 --> 00:19:17,879 S1: why Logan wins at the end of season three. We 402 00:19:17,880 --> 00:19:19,680 S1: don't know what happens in season four, but it's why 403 00:19:19,680 --> 00:19:22,260 S1: he's on top, because he's had to play the game 404 00:19:22,260 --> 00:19:24,990 S1: and he's created this thing that his children are squabbling over. 405 00:19:24,990 --> 00:19:28,260 S1: These kids have had everything handed to them and they're 406 00:19:28,260 --> 00:19:31,460 S1: all basically fail kids. And I think that's interesting. Comp 407 00:19:31,470 --> 00:19:34,530 S1: to the Murdochs, to the Packers. This seems to be 408 00:19:34,530 --> 00:19:37,080 S1: a thing and it's like to this question of who 409 00:19:37,080 --> 00:19:39,869 S1: should win. They're all useless morons. Good on them for 410 00:19:39,869 --> 00:19:41,910 S1: having a crack, but like none of them deserve it 411 00:19:41,910 --> 00:19:42,480 S1: at all. 412 00:19:42,480 --> 00:19:44,100 S2: Yeah, I mean, I tend to agree with you and 413 00:19:44,100 --> 00:19:46,080 S2: I listen to this interview with Jesse Armstrong and he 414 00:19:46,080 --> 00:19:49,679 S2: said something like, The Roy siblings always think they're the 415 00:19:49,680 --> 00:19:52,649 S2: smartest people in the room, but they're actually actually the 416 00:19:52,650 --> 00:19:55,169 S2: most foolish. And then you've got the kind of Tom 417 00:19:55,170 --> 00:19:58,260 S2: and Greg's who presenters the, you know, the fools, but 418 00:19:58,260 --> 00:20:01,140 S2: actually they're probably smarter all along. And it's so true 419 00:20:01,140 --> 00:20:03,150 S2: because like, you know, the way, even the way that, 420 00:20:03,150 --> 00:20:06,990 S2: like Shiv, Roman and Kendall talk to, say, Tom and Greg, 421 00:20:06,990 --> 00:20:09,660 S2: you can tell what they think of them and where 422 00:20:09,660 --> 00:20:12,270 S2: they see themselves in the hierarchy. But, you know, as 423 00:20:12,270 --> 00:20:14,489 S2: it came to. In season three. If it is to 424 00:20:14,490 --> 00:20:16,949 S2: be said, as it came to be in season three, 425 00:20:16,950 --> 00:20:20,340 S2: the you know, Tom was playing the right game and 426 00:20:20,340 --> 00:20:21,750 S2: the kids got outsmarted. 427 00:20:22,020 --> 00:20:25,080 S1: Yeah, we were talking about this earlier, Meg, the question 428 00:20:25,080 --> 00:20:28,530 S1: of both Tom and Greg's arc, but their coming together, 429 00:20:28,530 --> 00:20:31,140 S1: I mean, that's sort of a meeting of the Outsiders, right? 430 00:20:31,800 --> 00:20:37,440 S3: They're the best romance on TV right now. I love them. Yeah. 431 00:20:37,710 --> 00:20:40,140 S3: As much as there is anyone to root for, I 432 00:20:40,140 --> 00:20:42,450 S3: think we do kind of root for Greg and Tom 433 00:20:42,450 --> 00:20:45,180 S3: even now, even as terrible as they are. And I mean, 434 00:20:45,869 --> 00:20:48,630 S3: Tom in particular, nearly went to prison for his very 435 00:20:48,630 --> 00:20:53,669 S3: real crimes. But there is something lovable about them. And 436 00:20:53,670 --> 00:20:56,640 S3: the fact that they are such outsiders. I mean, Tom's 437 00:20:56,640 --> 00:20:58,830 S3: this kid from the Midwest who has no idea what 438 00:20:58,830 --> 00:21:00,540 S3: he's doing in this world and the fact he's constantly 439 00:21:00,540 --> 00:21:04,680 S3: trying and vying in this sad way rather than this 440 00:21:04,680 --> 00:21:07,260 S3: expectant way, like he he doesn't have the entitlement of 441 00:21:07,260 --> 00:21:11,010 S3: someone like Kendall. So at least he has that kind 442 00:21:11,010 --> 00:21:15,270 S3: of hustle that Logan respects, I think. Mm hmm. And then. 443 00:21:15,270 --> 00:21:18,000 S1: Move. TOM So basically, the end of season three, it's 444 00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:21,330 S1: not said explicitly, but it's kind of very heavily implied 445 00:21:21,330 --> 00:21:24,479 S1: that part of the reason why the three siblings failed 446 00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:27,000 S1: in their attempt to take down Logan is because Tom 447 00:21:27,270 --> 00:21:29,669 S1: betrayed them. He gave Logan a bit of a heads up, 448 00:21:29,670 --> 00:21:33,270 S1: which gave Logan time to rearrange the corporate structure of 449 00:21:33,270 --> 00:21:36,300 S1: the company through his divorce settlement with his wife. Very 450 00:21:36,300 --> 00:21:38,880 S1: complicated legally stuff. I have no idea. In the real 451 00:21:38,880 --> 00:21:42,270 S1: world if you could maneuver that that quickly. But basically 452 00:21:42,270 --> 00:21:47,340 S1: Tom tipped them off. And it's interesting, at least to me, 453 00:21:47,340 --> 00:21:50,610 S1: it seems like what pushed Tom's motivation and same with 454 00:21:50,609 --> 00:21:53,430 S1: Greg teaming up with him. It's just that they feel 455 00:21:53,430 --> 00:21:56,250 S1: like they've been screwed over by the siblings. 456 00:21:56,700 --> 00:21:59,580 S3: And I think especially for Tom, his relationship with Shiv 457 00:21:59,580 --> 00:22:01,950 S3: plays a big part in that. I think he's come 458 00:22:01,950 --> 00:22:06,540 S3: to realize that she respects ruthlessness, which is something that 459 00:22:06,540 --> 00:22:10,050 S3: doesn't come naturally to him and he's just leaning into 460 00:22:10,050 --> 00:22:12,630 S3: it now. He's realized that he's not going to get 461 00:22:12,630 --> 00:22:14,729 S3: any actual real love from her, but maybe he can 462 00:22:14,730 --> 00:22:15,660 S3: get a respect. 463 00:22:16,200 --> 00:22:20,850 S1: Are you still viewing Greg Thomas as this stand in 464 00:22:20,850 --> 00:22:24,780 S1: for the viewer? I mean, I feel like after rewatching 465 00:22:24,930 --> 00:22:29,490 S1: the finale of season three, it really helped me understand 466 00:22:29,490 --> 00:22:32,369 S1: how much of an arc Greg has been on. Like 467 00:22:32,369 --> 00:22:34,980 S1: he starts as this sort of everyman, and then he 468 00:22:34,980 --> 00:22:39,300 S1: spends that episode trying to court this countess just to, like, 469 00:22:39,300 --> 00:22:41,129 S1: you know, marry into wealth. And then he does a 470 00:22:41,130 --> 00:22:44,640 S1: deal with Tom explicitly saying, Who needs a soul anyway? Like, 471 00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:46,830 S1: let's do it. What what do you think about his arc? 472 00:22:47,310 --> 00:22:50,010 S2: Yeah. Well, I think like Megan said earlier, he definitely 473 00:22:50,010 --> 00:22:51,840 S2: was like we needed to have if you can have 474 00:22:51,840 --> 00:22:53,640 S2: a show that is set in a world that most 475 00:22:53,640 --> 00:22:56,219 S2: people don't, you know, get to even get close to, 476 00:22:56,250 --> 00:22:59,160 S2: you need to have an audience surrogate. So that was Greg. 477 00:22:59,700 --> 00:23:02,340 S2: So we could kind of see through his eyes what 478 00:23:02,340 --> 00:23:04,800 S2: was going on. But then I think his arc actually 479 00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:07,139 S2: makes a lot of sense because it would be a 480 00:23:07,140 --> 00:23:10,440 S2: brave person to say that you would get into this 481 00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:14,490 S2: world and not be kind of intoxicated and corrupted by 482 00:23:14,490 --> 00:23:16,919 S2: everything you see and the places you go to and 483 00:23:16,920 --> 00:23:19,180 S2: the proximity to power. And so I think, you know, 484 00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:22,379 S2: Greg's arc has made a lot of sense. And to me, again, 485 00:23:22,380 --> 00:23:24,510 S2: it helps me say myself, like I can hand on 486 00:23:24,510 --> 00:23:26,310 S2: heart say if I was if I was in succession, 487 00:23:26,310 --> 00:23:28,440 S2: I would be Greg and I would I would start 488 00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:32,700 S2: cutting deals. And, you know, I would definitely be trying to, like, 489 00:23:32,700 --> 00:23:35,430 S2: get in with the Duchess of Luxembourg so I could 490 00:23:35,430 --> 00:23:38,850 S2: be the 10th in line to the throne. Like it 491 00:23:38,850 --> 00:23:41,189 S2: does make a lot of sense. And I guess it 492 00:23:41,190 --> 00:23:43,740 S2: is kind of disappointing because he is mostly a nice guy. 493 00:23:43,740 --> 00:23:47,190 S2: But yeah, when he is mostly a. 494 00:23:47,190 --> 00:23:48,840 S3: Nice guy, he's suing Greenpeace. 495 00:23:49,740 --> 00:23:51,780 S2: When I mean, he's definitely not the person I would 496 00:23:51,780 --> 00:23:53,850 S2: choose to be my attack dog, as Tom does in 497 00:23:53,850 --> 00:23:57,420 S2: the finale. But you know, Greg has seen an opportunity 498 00:23:57,420 --> 00:23:59,879 S2: and it's because the thing is, Tom is really an 499 00:23:59,880 --> 00:24:03,359 S2: evolution of Greg. They're essentially the same person. And so 500 00:24:03,359 --> 00:24:06,150 S2: Greg has probably seen that Tom is his in and 501 00:24:06,150 --> 00:24:08,190 S2: Tom knows that he can use Greg. And so now 502 00:24:08,190 --> 00:24:10,409 S2: we're going to have this, you know, kind of weird 503 00:24:10,410 --> 00:24:13,619 S2: power duo. And already we've seen in teasers for season 504 00:24:13,619 --> 00:24:15,840 S2: four and stuff, they are kind of on the inside 505 00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:18,060 S2: with Logan, they are in the inner circle, but they're 506 00:24:18,060 --> 00:24:21,240 S2: still terrified of him, like their how they will kind 507 00:24:21,240 --> 00:24:24,180 S2: of survive in a world where they don't almost have 508 00:24:24,180 --> 00:24:27,330 S2: the siblings to keep them elevated like will be a 509 00:24:27,330 --> 00:24:28,889 S2: very interesting prospect for the writers. 510 00:24:29,430 --> 00:24:32,460 S1: Yeah, it's a show that really rewards a rewatch because 511 00:24:32,460 --> 00:24:34,560 S1: you pay attention to things that you might have missed over. 512 00:24:34,560 --> 00:24:36,690 S1: Like the first time I watched the finale, there was 513 00:24:36,690 --> 00:24:39,600 S1: so much going on. I thought it was incredible. And 514 00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:41,790 S1: then you rewatch it and you're like, Oh, that line 515 00:24:41,790 --> 00:24:44,939 S1: says so much about what the message of this show is. 516 00:24:44,940 --> 00:24:48,239 S1: When Tom is negotiating with Greg and trying to get 517 00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:50,010 S1: him on board, Greg says. 518 00:24:51,090 --> 00:24:54,600 S6: Could I get my own, my own. 519 00:24:54,869 --> 00:24:58,080 S10: Like your own? Greg Yeah, you can have 20. 520 00:25:00,609 --> 00:25:01,510 S11: Listen, I. 521 00:25:01,510 --> 00:25:06,250 S10: Have things to do. Do you want a deal with 522 00:25:06,250 --> 00:25:06,790 S10: the devil? 523 00:25:07,150 --> 00:25:11,230 S1: Which is this amazing, I guess. Insight into Greg has 524 00:25:11,230 --> 00:25:13,689 S1: been treated like shit by Tom, But like, in all 525 00:25:13,690 --> 00:25:16,030 S1: these corporate sort of structures, he just wants to get 526 00:25:16,030 --> 00:25:19,030 S1: to a level where he can treat someone else like shit, 527 00:25:19,030 --> 00:25:20,929 S1: and that is kind of all he's fighting for, I think. 528 00:25:20,950 --> 00:25:23,800 S1: It's an interesting question, Thomas. You sort of ask before. 529 00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:25,690 S1: It's like, who would I be in this show? It 530 00:25:25,690 --> 00:25:28,419 S1: would be Greg. I've never really thought about that in detail. 531 00:25:28,420 --> 00:25:31,239 S1: But Meg, is there someone that you would want to 532 00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:33,550 S1: be or you would see yourself as in the show? 533 00:25:34,500 --> 00:25:36,510 S3: Mm. Those are different questions. 534 00:25:37,350 --> 00:25:39,840 S2: I think Meg's got big Geri energy. 535 00:25:40,260 --> 00:25:41,820 S3: I take that as a compliment. 536 00:25:41,850 --> 00:25:43,020 S12: 100%, Jerry. 537 00:25:43,350 --> 00:25:45,750 S2: Jerry is probably one of the best characters in the show, actually, 538 00:25:45,750 --> 00:25:49,170 S2: because she's not a Roy, but she knows the Roys 539 00:25:49,170 --> 00:25:51,439 S2: better than anyone, and she's able to kind of, like, 540 00:25:51,450 --> 00:25:54,450 S2: remove herself. But she's always protected, like no one's coming 541 00:25:54,450 --> 00:25:57,929 S2: for Jerry. And yeah, so I think being Jerry, highest 542 00:25:57,930 --> 00:25:58,889 S2: compliment you can be paid. 543 00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:01,469 S3: Plus, I'm confusingly attracted to Roman, so. 544 00:26:03,510 --> 00:26:04,740 S1: I get the Roman attraction. 545 00:26:04,740 --> 00:26:05,460 S2: Yeah, me too. 546 00:26:05,550 --> 00:26:07,770 S3: Good. A lot of people don't. I've died on this hill. 547 00:26:07,770 --> 00:26:11,040 S1: I'm too scared to ask who you would diagnose me as. Thomas, 548 00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:13,439 S1: Are you going to pick someone really weird, aren't you, Carl? 549 00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:14,580 S1: Are you going to call me and Carl? 550 00:26:15,150 --> 00:26:17,100 S2: No. You actually. Do you know who you kind of 551 00:26:17,100 --> 00:26:19,830 S2: remind me of? You. You are a bit of like 552 00:26:19,830 --> 00:26:21,359 S2: a sandy, I reckon. 553 00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:22,290 S1: Wow. 554 00:26:22,500 --> 00:26:24,479 S13: Interesting. Yeah. Kind of the guy who. 555 00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:25,709 S3: Can't speak anymore. 556 00:26:27,030 --> 00:26:30,570 S1: He was sort of the corporate nemesis to Logan earlier 557 00:26:30,570 --> 00:26:31,470 S1: on in the show, right? 558 00:26:31,470 --> 00:26:33,330 S2: Yeah, because I could see you coming up against the 559 00:26:33,330 --> 00:26:35,520 S2: Logan and, like, battling yourself. 560 00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:36,290 S12: Yeah. 561 00:26:37,510 --> 00:26:42,810 S2: Yeah. You. You got so close though. I personally and, 562 00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:44,340 S2: you know, I've had this conversation with a lot of 563 00:26:44,340 --> 00:26:47,310 S2: people and I think people always get funny about it. 564 00:26:47,310 --> 00:26:49,320 S2: But I do see a lot of myself in Kendall, 565 00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:52,020 S2: which is like a revealing statement to make because he's 566 00:26:52,020 --> 00:26:54,630 S2: so like people have a bit of a visceral reaction 567 00:26:54,630 --> 00:26:56,129 S2: to him. I obviously have a lot of like father 568 00:26:56,130 --> 00:26:59,760 S2: issues I need to unpack later, but I do see 569 00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:01,530 S2: a lot of myself in Kendall or sometimes when he 570 00:27:01,530 --> 00:27:03,900 S2: does certain things, I'm like, Oh God, that feels close. He, 571 00:27:03,900 --> 00:27:06,969 S2: you know, he's he's kind of like fancies himself as 572 00:27:06,970 --> 00:27:09,270 S2: a very ambitious, but at times he just doesn't read 573 00:27:09,270 --> 00:27:10,740 S2: the room well. And yeah. 574 00:27:11,010 --> 00:27:13,830 S1: I think that I don't think that is really a 575 00:27:13,830 --> 00:27:15,959 S1: neg or anything. I think you said this earlier, Thomas, 576 00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:18,210 S1: that what is so fascinating about the show is it 577 00:27:18,210 --> 00:27:21,750 S1: operates at two levels. One is this really elite power 578 00:27:21,750 --> 00:27:24,629 S1: battle for control, and the other is at a level 579 00:27:24,630 --> 00:27:27,480 S1: of a family drama that I think everyone can relate to. 580 00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:30,600 S1: And even when Roman and Kendall and Shiv are making 581 00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:34,709 S1: these moves that normal people wouldn't their motivations and their 582 00:27:34,710 --> 00:27:38,700 S1: reactions are very relatable. They are trying to seek approval. 583 00:27:38,700 --> 00:27:41,730 S1: They're trying to tease their siblings that just trying to 584 00:27:41,730 --> 00:27:45,300 S1: feel like they loved and that they belong to something 585 00:27:45,300 --> 00:27:47,910 S1: in a family unit that they clearly didn't get any 586 00:27:47,910 --> 00:27:48,359 S1: love from. 587 00:27:48,630 --> 00:27:51,900 S3: And as much as this striving for power and kind 588 00:27:51,900 --> 00:27:55,170 S3: of corporate, you know, corporate power, I suppose it is 589 00:27:55,170 --> 00:27:56,940 S3: about the family. At the end of the day, even 590 00:27:56,940 --> 00:27:59,760 S3: the scene, there's a scene when the going into the 591 00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:02,040 S3: room that Logan is in in the season three finale 592 00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:05,430 S3: and Roman's like, make sure this isn't a situation like 593 00:28:05,430 --> 00:28:07,650 S3: with the water guns in Malibu or whatever. It's like, 594 00:28:07,650 --> 00:28:09,390 S3: what are you talking about? It's like we all said 595 00:28:09,390 --> 00:28:10,949 S3: we were going to scroll down. You didn't do it. 596 00:28:10,950 --> 00:28:14,010 S3: It's like they're all just this dumb little family striving 597 00:28:14,010 --> 00:28:15,540 S3: for love and affection. 598 00:28:15,540 --> 00:28:17,670 S1: And there are so many references to things that happened 599 00:28:17,670 --> 00:28:20,970 S1: when they were kids. Like there's a reference to Roman being, 600 00:28:20,970 --> 00:28:24,690 S1: I guess, physically abused by his dad or like, locked 601 00:28:24,690 --> 00:28:27,300 S1: in a cage and treated like a dog. You sort 602 00:28:27,300 --> 00:28:29,850 S1: of realize, Yeah, this don't make sense why these guys 603 00:28:29,850 --> 00:28:30,600 S1: are so weird. 604 00:28:31,170 --> 00:28:32,939 S2: Well, I mean, look at the opening credits. Like, you 605 00:28:32,940 --> 00:28:34,590 S2: don't see any of the actors at all. Just like, 606 00:28:34,770 --> 00:28:37,290 S2: you know, archival footage of the family, like playing tennis 607 00:28:37,290 --> 00:28:39,870 S2: and looking like, super creepy. Yeah, I think I think 608 00:28:39,870 --> 00:28:42,540 S2: they want us to remember that this family that we've 609 00:28:42,540 --> 00:28:45,630 S2: known for three seasons has been a family for 30 610 00:28:45,630 --> 00:28:48,480 S2: something years. And there's all of that backstory and context 611 00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:51,760 S2: and and everything that we haven't seen. Although I like 612 00:28:51,780 --> 00:28:55,050 S2: interesting point that I wanted to ask you guys about 613 00:28:55,050 --> 00:28:58,020 S2: in terms of the timeline, because we don't really get 614 00:28:58,020 --> 00:29:00,479 S2: that many specific like this is the time and place 615 00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:03,990 S2: that it's happening. But like through season one opened with 616 00:29:03,990 --> 00:29:06,030 S2: Logan's 80th birthday. Obviously that was meant to be the 617 00:29:06,030 --> 00:29:10,650 S2: plan for the succession. And then season four will open 618 00:29:10,650 --> 00:29:13,380 S2: at another of Logan's birthday parties, but they don't really 619 00:29:13,380 --> 00:29:16,200 S2: tell you when. So like we don't really know exactly 620 00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:18,450 S2: how much time has passed. And I saw Jesse Armstrong 621 00:29:18,450 --> 00:29:20,280 S2: give a very vague answer. He's like, Oh, look, it's 622 00:29:20,280 --> 00:29:22,680 S2: TV land. Maybe it's one year, maybe it's two years. 623 00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:23,910 S2: But I was like, Man, if it's one year, that 624 00:29:23,910 --> 00:29:24,810 S2: is a busy year. 625 00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:28,930 S13: Like so many things have happened in the year for Kendall. 626 00:29:29,130 --> 00:29:31,550 S2: So it will be interesting for that to be, you know, 627 00:29:31,560 --> 00:29:33,600 S2: obviously this is the fourth and final season for that 628 00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:36,270 S2: to be a full circle moment like season four. Another 629 00:29:36,270 --> 00:29:38,640 S2: Logan birthday party. That's where it begins. And then like 630 00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:40,020 S2: let's see how the pieces for. 631 00:29:40,110 --> 00:29:42,200 S1: Yeah, I feel like I would say it's somewhere between 632 00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:45,690 S1: 1 and 3 years. I think that's the sense completely, 633 00:29:45,690 --> 00:29:48,360 S1: just based on the amount of things that happen in 634 00:29:48,360 --> 00:29:51,330 S1: global events sort of gearing up for an election. And 635 00:29:51,330 --> 00:29:53,910 S1: there's references to politics, stuff that feels like the right 636 00:29:53,910 --> 00:29:56,340 S1: time frame. Yeah. One of the things that we didn't 637 00:29:56,340 --> 00:29:58,530 S1: really talk about with the finale that I think leads 638 00:29:58,530 --> 00:30:01,680 S1: us into a conversation about where the next season is 639 00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:04,500 S1: going is the real animus for all of this. Chaos 640 00:30:04,500 --> 00:30:06,720 S1: at the end is the introduction of this character played 641 00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:12,360 S1: by Alexander Skarsgard, who is a Swedish kind of tech billionaire. 642 00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:15,330 S1: And early on in the season, there's discussions that there 643 00:30:15,330 --> 00:30:19,680 S1: might be a merger between his company, Gojo and Waystar Royco. 644 00:30:19,680 --> 00:30:22,950 S1: His his company seems to be a sort of video 645 00:30:22,950 --> 00:30:26,910 S1: streaming platform. And there's this idea that the Waystar Royco 646 00:30:26,910 --> 00:30:30,900 S1: back catalogue could make a great partnership with with the 647 00:30:30,900 --> 00:30:34,870 S1: technology that that Scots Guards company has. And towards the 648 00:30:34,870 --> 00:30:37,540 S1: end you realize, Oh, what's going on is Logan just 649 00:30:37,540 --> 00:30:40,090 S1: wants to sell out, basically. And there are two things 650 00:30:40,090 --> 00:30:43,540 S1: that after three seasons of the siblings not getting together, 651 00:30:43,540 --> 00:30:47,260 S1: there are two things that essentially unite them in this 652 00:30:47,260 --> 00:30:50,380 S1: purpose to stop the dad making the deal. The first 653 00:30:50,380 --> 00:30:52,720 S1: is that this company that they've been trying to inherit 654 00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:55,540 S1: is going to get swallowed up by Lucas Madsen, who's 655 00:30:55,540 --> 00:30:57,700 S1: this guy's got character. And that means they basically got 656 00:30:57,700 --> 00:31:00,460 S1: no role to play. The other, which I again didn't 657 00:31:00,460 --> 00:31:03,790 S1: really pay enough attention to until I rewatched the finale, 658 00:31:03,790 --> 00:31:07,060 S1: is this revelation that Logan Roy is maybe attempting to 659 00:31:07,060 --> 00:31:11,140 S1: have another kid. The walnuts and the walnuts. It's a 660 00:31:11,140 --> 00:31:15,040 S1: it's a really intense scene about the older brother who 661 00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:17,740 S1: brings this maca root, which I've never heard of before, 662 00:31:17,740 --> 00:31:21,880 S1: and he's like, Dad is trying to get his sperm 663 00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:24,880 S1: to be more motile in order to have a kid 664 00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:26,410 S1: with the woman he's sleeping with who I think is 665 00:31:26,410 --> 00:31:28,930 S1: his assistant. And I'm interested in what you guys think 666 00:31:28,930 --> 00:31:30,910 S1: about this, and maybe I'm going way too deep in 667 00:31:30,910 --> 00:31:33,970 S1: a random scene, but I just don't think that Jesse Armstrong, 668 00:31:34,060 --> 00:31:36,850 S1: the showrunner of the show, puts in things like this 669 00:31:36,850 --> 00:31:39,910 S1: as red herrings that they've thought that one of them 670 00:31:39,910 --> 00:31:42,100 S1: is going to inherit it at different points across the show, 671 00:31:42,100 --> 00:31:45,220 S1: each of them the most recent one being Roman, think 672 00:31:45,220 --> 00:31:48,100 S1: that they will inherit the throne. And then when it's 673 00:31:48,100 --> 00:31:50,290 S1: revealed that the dad's going to have another kid or 674 00:31:50,290 --> 00:31:53,080 S1: he's trying to is a sort of like, Oh wow, no, 675 00:31:53,080 --> 00:31:56,260 S1: he thinks we're all idiots. He needs to make another one. 676 00:31:56,260 --> 00:32:01,090 S1: And so that revelation pushes them together to stop this 677 00:32:01,090 --> 00:32:04,270 S1: business deal from going on. I mean, does that make 678 00:32:04,270 --> 00:32:05,830 S1: sense to you guys? Have I paid way too much 679 00:32:05,830 --> 00:32:09,160 S1: attention to a conversation about sperm in this finale? 680 00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:10,900 S3: I don't know if that's the thing that actually pushes 681 00:32:10,900 --> 00:32:14,260 S3: them over the edge. I think it probably contributes. And 682 00:32:14,260 --> 00:32:16,990 S3: at least on an emotional level, there's probably an element 683 00:32:16,990 --> 00:32:19,480 S3: of like, Oh, he did this with Kona and then 684 00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:20,830 S3: moved on to us and now he's going to move 685 00:32:20,830 --> 00:32:24,070 S3: on to a whole new family. But I don't think 686 00:32:24,070 --> 00:32:26,560 S3: they've really concerned about this little boss baby rising up 687 00:32:26,560 --> 00:32:27,010 S3: and taking. 688 00:32:27,010 --> 00:32:27,790 S13: Over for great. 689 00:32:27,790 --> 00:32:28,840 S1: Boss baby reference. 690 00:32:29,050 --> 00:32:30,460 S3: Well done. Thank you. I try for one ever yet. 691 00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:33,760 S2: Yeah, I. I mean, I do kind of think you're 692 00:32:33,760 --> 00:32:37,690 S2: right in that Jesse Armstrong probably has shown he's not 693 00:32:37,690 --> 00:32:40,750 S2: the type of writer that just concludes the scene for nothing. 694 00:32:40,750 --> 00:32:43,510 S2: But then I would be very surprised if this season 695 00:32:43,510 --> 00:32:45,940 S2: being the final season, we got bogged down in like 696 00:32:46,330 --> 00:32:49,900 S2: a potential new successor coming into like, I would be 697 00:32:49,900 --> 00:32:52,330 S2: shocked if in the season opener it's like Logan at 698 00:32:52,330 --> 00:32:54,360 S2: his birthday party and then his assistant is, you know, 699 00:32:54,370 --> 00:32:57,580 S2: like six months pregnant. But, you know, I've been wrong before. 700 00:32:57,580 --> 00:32:58,150 S13: If that happens. 701 00:32:58,150 --> 00:32:59,920 S1: I can't wait to spend the entirety of that first 702 00:32:59,920 --> 00:33:02,440 S1: recap pod being like, Aha, I was right here. 703 00:33:02,740 --> 00:33:03,010 S13: Yeah. 704 00:33:03,430 --> 00:33:06,160 S2: I'm so glad I said that on record. But yeah, 705 00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:07,630 S2: it is. It is funny that that is kind of 706 00:33:07,630 --> 00:33:09,820 S2: what brings them together. You know, they, they have not 707 00:33:09,820 --> 00:33:11,680 S2: been able to see eye to eye on anything. Each 708 00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:14,050 S2: of them thinks the other two will make the worst 709 00:33:14,050 --> 00:33:16,660 S2: possible CEO of all time. I think even as they 710 00:33:16,690 --> 00:33:18,940 S2: like in the car on the way to go and 711 00:33:18,940 --> 00:33:22,690 S2: confront Logan, Roman says, like the idea of working with 712 00:33:22,690 --> 00:33:24,580 S2: you two makes me sick. But I do think we 713 00:33:24,580 --> 00:33:25,510 S2: could make a good team. 714 00:33:25,780 --> 00:33:29,110 S3: Like it's quite touching, actually, them coming together. It's very 715 00:33:29,110 --> 00:33:31,210 S3: satisfying for the short amount of time it happens. 716 00:33:31,210 --> 00:33:32,860 S2: It is satisfying and it also comes off the back 717 00:33:32,860 --> 00:33:35,110 S2: of arguably one of the best scenes in the three series. 718 00:33:35,110 --> 00:33:36,940 S2: I think when Kendall has his breakdown. 719 00:33:37,060 --> 00:33:38,290 S14: I'm not a good person. 720 00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:40,570 S15: Oh, whatever. You're fine. 721 00:33:43,170 --> 00:33:44,430 S10: I'm bad. 722 00:33:47,220 --> 00:33:50,880 S16: Come on, lighten up. Glum. Glum. 723 00:33:53,340 --> 00:33:54,450 S14: I killed a kid. 724 00:33:57,740 --> 00:34:00,320 S2: And that was such a great scene, I think. And again, 725 00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:03,050 S2: it speaks to that family dynamic of none of them 726 00:34:03,050 --> 00:34:06,350 S2: have clearly got the emotional tools to make someone feel 727 00:34:06,350 --> 00:34:10,190 S2: better when they're sad, but like Roman was trying so hard. 728 00:34:10,430 --> 00:34:11,900 S3: Like who hasn't killed a kid? 729 00:34:12,440 --> 00:34:14,420 S2: Yeah, he's like. And then he's like, You've killed a kid, 730 00:34:14,420 --> 00:34:16,520 S2: and she's on the phone and she's like, Yeah, sure, Right. 731 00:34:17,180 --> 00:34:18,799 S2: It was it was very yeah, it was kind of 732 00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:20,630 S2: probably one of the most touching scenes, but also just 733 00:34:20,630 --> 00:34:24,290 S2: showed them, you know, having been raised by someone who 734 00:34:24,290 --> 00:34:27,319 S2: did not equip them emotionally to deal with these type 735 00:34:27,320 --> 00:34:30,200 S2: of feelings, they were trying. So I suppose, you know, 736 00:34:30,200 --> 00:34:32,120 S2: that that proves that they are kind of human, but 737 00:34:32,120 --> 00:34:33,500 S2: they're never probably going to beat Logan. 738 00:34:33,650 --> 00:34:35,900 S3: And it should be said them mother is just as bad. 739 00:34:35,900 --> 00:34:39,380 S3: I mean, that final season has some particularly brutal scenes 740 00:34:39,380 --> 00:34:40,580 S3: with her and Shiv. 741 00:34:40,670 --> 00:34:44,420 S8: She just enjoy a fag, not do any sniping for 742 00:34:44,420 --> 00:34:47,360 S8: a bit. Have you come to get some attention? Me 743 00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:50,690 S8: Attention from you? Oh, no. That ship sailed long ago. Yeah, 744 00:34:50,690 --> 00:34:52,130 S8: I might have been a bit of a spotty mother, 745 00:34:52,130 --> 00:34:53,360 S8: but you've been a shitty daughter. 746 00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:55,910 S3: So the way that she says, like you're a pretty 747 00:34:55,910 --> 00:34:59,240 S3: awful child, like, Yeah, it's not nice. They didn't have 748 00:34:59,239 --> 00:35:00,530 S3: a great childhood. Either way. 749 00:35:00,530 --> 00:35:03,290 S1: Everything that is revealed about how these kids were raised 750 00:35:03,290 --> 00:35:05,930 S1: and the circumstances in which they're raised, it's like they 751 00:35:05,930 --> 00:35:09,890 S1: are the products of their circumstances. Like that's it. 752 00:35:11,030 --> 00:35:13,040 S3: We should feel bad for Nepo babies. It's true. 753 00:35:13,870 --> 00:35:14,040 S13: Well. 754 00:35:14,690 --> 00:35:19,010 S1: It's not what I was saying. So the show is ending. 755 00:35:19,010 --> 00:35:22,400 S1: This is the final season. Some mixed reactions to that. 756 00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:25,160 S1: Jesse Armstrong, the creator and showrunner in some interviews, I 757 00:35:25,160 --> 00:35:28,370 S1: think has been really candid about it. He said, Look, 758 00:35:28,370 --> 00:35:30,290 S1: we could have kept it going for longer. We could 759 00:35:30,290 --> 00:35:33,680 S1: have more episodes, but you would then get bad episodes. 760 00:35:33,680 --> 00:35:36,770 S1: And I like the fact that we're doing a tight 761 00:35:36,770 --> 00:35:39,859 S1: sort of think just under 40 episode run of this show. 762 00:35:39,860 --> 00:35:42,140 S1: We've got a story we want to tell. Thomas. You 763 00:35:42,140 --> 00:35:44,720 S1: and I have talked about this briefly on an earlier pod. 764 00:35:44,930 --> 00:35:47,150 S1: I haven't really had a chance to get your thoughts 765 00:35:47,150 --> 00:35:50,150 S1: on it yet. I kind of I like the idea 766 00:35:50,150 --> 00:35:52,550 S1: that we're going at we know we're going out because 767 00:35:52,550 --> 00:35:56,600 S1: I think this show came very close to killing Kendall 768 00:35:56,600 --> 00:36:01,100 S1: last season. And I think that they I think in 769 00:36:01,100 --> 00:36:03,740 S1: a weird way, that is a natural end for his 770 00:36:03,739 --> 00:36:07,070 S1: character's journey. And I was worried that they didn't do it. 771 00:36:07,070 --> 00:36:09,080 S1: And it made me think, oh, gosh, they're just they're 772 00:36:09,080 --> 00:36:11,420 S1: too scared to do it because the show so great. 773 00:36:11,420 --> 00:36:13,040 S1: The dynamic is so great for all the reasons we've 774 00:36:13,040 --> 00:36:15,560 S1: been talking about. A lot of people, including me, could 775 00:36:15,560 --> 00:36:19,130 S1: eat up ten seasons of watching these characters interact. But 776 00:36:19,310 --> 00:36:22,100 S1: then I think like, yeah, it's pretty amazing to just say, 777 00:36:22,100 --> 00:36:24,710 S1: This is it. We've got a statement to make. Maybe 778 00:36:24,710 --> 00:36:26,509 S1: there'll be a death, maybe there won't be. Maybe there'll 779 00:36:26,510 --> 00:36:29,390 S1: be a winner and losers or maybe something else crazy 780 00:36:29,390 --> 00:36:31,460 S1: will happen. That kind of excites me. How do you 781 00:36:31,460 --> 00:36:34,100 S1: feel about the show coming to a definitive conclusion? 782 00:36:34,489 --> 00:36:36,620 S3: Yeah, I'm all for it. I think there should be 783 00:36:36,620 --> 00:36:39,200 S3: more TV creators who would just like this is how 784 00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:40,759 S3: long it is and we're going to make it great 785 00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:44,090 S3: and that's it. And it's a brave thing to do because, 786 00:36:44,090 --> 00:36:46,700 S3: I mean, Jesse Armstrong could ride this forever. HBO would 787 00:36:46,700 --> 00:36:49,400 S3: clearly take more seasons of it. It's so successful, it's 788 00:36:49,400 --> 00:36:52,310 S3: so beloved. But I think he's right in saying it 789 00:36:52,310 --> 00:36:54,589 S3: would become something else. I mean, if it continued, I 790 00:36:54,590 --> 00:36:56,690 S3: think you could see it becoming like a kind of 791 00:36:56,690 --> 00:36:59,960 S3: veep style satire where it's all about the comedy and 792 00:36:59,960 --> 00:37:02,810 S3: the day to day of it, but you'd miss the 793 00:37:02,810 --> 00:37:05,540 S3: kind of strong emotional arcs, and there's only so much 794 00:37:05,540 --> 00:37:07,430 S3: you can wrench from these characters. I mean, like, how 795 00:37:07,430 --> 00:37:10,580 S3: many times can Kendall hit rock bottom? Really? We've reached 796 00:37:10,580 --> 00:37:13,580 S3: our Max, I would say. And even just the kind 797 00:37:13,580 --> 00:37:16,310 S3: of corporate machinations of it all. How many more takeover 798 00:37:16,310 --> 00:37:17,720 S3: bids do you want to see? How many more meetings 799 00:37:17,719 --> 00:37:19,820 S3: with Stewie? I feel like there were points in the 800 00:37:19,820 --> 00:37:22,100 S3: past season or so where it's like, as good as 801 00:37:22,100 --> 00:37:24,860 S3: the family drama continues to be, there's these corporate scenes. 802 00:37:24,860 --> 00:37:27,020 S3: I'm like, I don't I don't care for this meeting anymore. 803 00:37:27,020 --> 00:37:29,630 S1: Yeah, we've done enough coups in boardrooms. We've had enough 804 00:37:29,630 --> 00:37:33,200 S1: outside billionaires trying to do it. Let's just finish it off. 805 00:37:33,200 --> 00:37:36,260 S3: Yeah, I'm all for it. I think the final season 806 00:37:36,260 --> 00:37:37,670 S3: should just be great. 807 00:37:38,030 --> 00:37:39,440 S1: You feel pretty similar to Thomas? 808 00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:42,350 S2: Yeah, I completely agree. I think, you know, I, sad 809 00:37:42,350 --> 00:37:43,850 S2: as I was that it was going to end. I 810 00:37:43,850 --> 00:37:46,040 S2: was also relieved. There were a few moments in season 811 00:37:46,040 --> 00:37:48,529 S2: three where I was like, Oh, the show. Like the 812 00:37:48,530 --> 00:37:51,620 S2: writing has never dipped, you know, it still looks amazing. 813 00:37:51,620 --> 00:37:53,630 S2: But it did feel like a little bit of old 814 00:37:53,630 --> 00:37:57,739 S2: ground being retraced. You know, the show from the literally 815 00:37:57,739 --> 00:38:01,009 S2: the first scene was about a succession plan. And we've 816 00:38:01,010 --> 00:38:04,009 S2: seen multiple attempts at that from like different angles. And ultimately, 817 00:38:04,010 --> 00:38:06,170 S2: you just can't keep doing that, you know, the quality 818 00:38:06,170 --> 00:38:09,800 S2: would dip. So yeah, definitely the right call. And yeah, look, 819 00:38:09,800 --> 00:38:13,520 S2: like Meghan said, I think HBO probably would have kept 820 00:38:13,670 --> 00:38:17,270 S2: greenlighting succession until Jesse Armstrong had had enough. But, you know, 821 00:38:17,600 --> 00:38:20,660 S2: they're also they're a network that doesn't push people, I 822 00:38:20,660 --> 00:38:21,920 S2: don't think, to keep going. 823 00:38:21,940 --> 00:38:23,020 S13: They focused. 824 00:38:23,030 --> 00:38:25,250 S2: Yeah, yeah. They know that, you know, the type of 825 00:38:25,250 --> 00:38:29,330 S2: shows they deliver, they know that the creators will probably 826 00:38:29,330 --> 00:38:31,250 S2: make their own decision and that will be that they're 827 00:38:31,250 --> 00:38:33,410 S2: never going to try and eke out one more season 828 00:38:33,410 --> 00:38:36,020 S2: just to, you know, get the green line up. But yeah, 829 00:38:36,020 --> 00:38:38,750 S2: so I'm happy that it's ending, but sad that it's ending. 830 00:38:39,960 --> 00:38:42,479 S1: A really tricky question to end on because I don't 831 00:38:42,480 --> 00:38:45,120 S1: really know what my answer to this would be. But 832 00:38:45,420 --> 00:38:49,050 S1: predictions for season four, like, I mean, do we think 833 00:38:49,050 --> 00:38:53,580 S1: Kendall or Logan will survive? Do we think someone will 834 00:38:53,580 --> 00:38:57,850 S1: quote unquote succeed in their mission to inherit Waystar royco? 835 00:38:57,870 --> 00:39:00,990 S1: Will they all go to jail? Meg, any thoughts? 836 00:39:02,120 --> 00:39:03,710 S3: I don't know. 837 00:39:04,250 --> 00:39:06,319 S1: Isn't that interesting that we can't really tell like that? 838 00:39:06,320 --> 00:39:08,239 S1: I think it's kind of exciting about this that it 839 00:39:08,239 --> 00:39:11,390 S1: could literally go in almost any direction and all the 840 00:39:11,390 --> 00:39:12,590 S1: groundwork has been laid out. 841 00:39:13,010 --> 00:39:16,940 S3: I feel like Logan probably has to die just because 842 00:39:16,940 --> 00:39:19,220 S3: that's where we started. I mean, in that first episode, 843 00:39:19,219 --> 00:39:21,620 S3: he literally nearly dies in hospital, and that's what the 844 00:39:21,620 --> 00:39:23,600 S3: foundation of the show is. But in terms of what 845 00:39:23,600 --> 00:39:26,900 S3: we're left with, I don't think there's going to be 846 00:39:26,900 --> 00:39:30,050 S3: a successor. There's not going to be a happy successor, 847 00:39:30,050 --> 00:39:31,370 S3: at least I think it's going to be a pretty 848 00:39:31,370 --> 00:39:35,270 S3: sad ending for everyone involved, including Kendall. I don't see 849 00:39:35,270 --> 00:39:37,310 S3: him coming out on top. And he could well die, 850 00:39:37,310 --> 00:39:39,469 S3: like you say. But then again, if you were going 851 00:39:39,469 --> 00:39:41,810 S3: to do that, wouldn't you have done it already? Like, 852 00:39:41,810 --> 00:39:45,410 S3: I don't know how how low he can go. I 853 00:39:45,410 --> 00:39:47,900 S3: feel like this is going to be a season of 854 00:39:47,900 --> 00:39:53,000 S3: Greg rising and becoming a different evolution, as he said 855 00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:55,040 S3: of himself. So I feel like it's going to be 856 00:39:55,040 --> 00:39:57,920 S3: a big Greg and Tom, big Greg and Tom season. 857 00:39:57,920 --> 00:39:59,990 S3: But is that a win? Are they going to come out? 858 00:40:00,650 --> 00:40:02,030 S3: Everyone's going to lose. Yeah. 859 00:40:02,480 --> 00:40:05,270 S1: Everyone's going to lose is a great summary. Thomas, what 860 00:40:05,270 --> 00:40:05,870 S1: about you? 861 00:40:06,200 --> 00:40:07,910 S2: Yeah, I definitely think there'll be a lot of Greg 862 00:40:07,910 --> 00:40:10,310 S2: and Tom. I think they've emerged as very clear, like 863 00:40:10,310 --> 00:40:13,489 S2: audience favorites, even the way I think you can see 864 00:40:13,489 --> 00:40:16,370 S2: like HBO positioning those two actors, they get a lot 865 00:40:16,370 --> 00:40:18,770 S2: of screen time, they do a lot of press like 866 00:40:18,770 --> 00:40:21,170 S2: they I think they will play a big role in 867 00:40:21,170 --> 00:40:24,530 S2: season four. Yeah, I don't really know. When we first 868 00:40:24,530 --> 00:40:28,070 S2: started talking about, you know, doing this pod and thinking 869 00:40:28,070 --> 00:40:29,840 S2: about the end of the show, one of the first 870 00:40:29,840 --> 00:40:31,819 S2: notes I made and we kind of spoke about him earlier, 871 00:40:31,820 --> 00:40:36,170 S2: but I just wrote Voltar Guy. So Lawrence Yi, played 872 00:40:36,170 --> 00:40:39,740 S2: by Rob Yang. He was the way they dismantled his company, 873 00:40:39,739 --> 00:40:42,290 S2: which was like his baby, which was kind of like 874 00:40:42,510 --> 00:40:45,860 S2: you see it as a mini waystar He and he 875 00:40:45,860 --> 00:40:49,520 S2: was seething, like Kendall basically. They swallowed him up, broke 876 00:40:49,520 --> 00:40:51,890 S2: his heart, broke his company apart. I just have this 877 00:40:51,890 --> 00:40:53,990 S2: feeling that we might see someone like him come back. 878 00:40:53,989 --> 00:40:56,090 S2: We haven't seen him since season two. Like, I think 879 00:40:56,090 --> 00:40:57,890 S2: if anything happens, it won't be, you know, like, it's 880 00:40:57,890 --> 00:41:00,350 S2: not going to be a Shiva Roman. If anything, like 881 00:41:00,350 --> 00:41:03,770 S2: if we see Logan toppled, it will be a face 882 00:41:03,770 --> 00:41:05,720 S2: that we haven't thought about from a previous season that, 883 00:41:05,719 --> 00:41:08,510 S2: you know, kind of manages to do this incredible coup. 884 00:41:08,510 --> 00:41:09,860 S2: So that wouldn't surprise me. 885 00:41:09,890 --> 00:41:12,710 S3: Isn't that Madsen, though? I feel like his character is 886 00:41:12,710 --> 00:41:15,230 S3: the perfect person to do that. This tech guy who 887 00:41:15,230 --> 00:41:18,049 S3: has obvious parallels to real world people making him all 888 00:41:18,050 --> 00:41:20,390 S3: the more relevant and also he just like doesn't care. 889 00:41:20,660 --> 00:41:23,300 S3: The way he proposes these deals is the complete antithesis 890 00:41:23,300 --> 00:41:25,549 S3: to how the kids do, which is all about emotion 891 00:41:25,550 --> 00:41:28,010 S3: and all about what they're entitled to. Whereas Madison's just. 892 00:41:28,010 --> 00:41:29,029 S13: Like pure by. 893 00:41:29,030 --> 00:41:30,799 S3: The numbers. This is boring. Like, we could do this, 894 00:41:30,800 --> 00:41:32,870 S3: I'm just going to buy the company. I feel like 895 00:41:32,870 --> 00:41:35,030 S3: that's such a talent about it. It's such a pure 896 00:41:35,030 --> 00:41:38,180 S3: and unsatisfying but wholly satisfying way of ending it. Just 897 00:41:38,180 --> 00:41:40,190 S3: like this is all business. It doesn't matter. 898 00:41:40,190 --> 00:41:43,069 S1: I have a feeling that that is going to be 899 00:41:43,070 --> 00:41:45,080 S1: a big part of where this season goes, I think 900 00:41:45,080 --> 00:41:48,500 S1: when I think about. Where it would end up. I 901 00:41:48,500 --> 00:41:50,690 S1: go back to what the show was about, and I 902 00:41:50,690 --> 00:41:54,770 S1: think it's partly about media and politics and the corporate 903 00:41:54,770 --> 00:41:59,360 S1: world and a legacy broadcast media company being swallowed up 904 00:41:59,360 --> 00:42:02,570 S1: and broken up for parts by a tech billionaire who 905 00:42:02,570 --> 00:42:06,020 S1: wears t shirts around the place. Makes sense. And then 906 00:42:06,020 --> 00:42:07,759 S1: I think the other thing that this show is about 907 00:42:07,760 --> 00:42:12,020 S1: is about how capitalism and these forces that shape our 908 00:42:12,020 --> 00:42:16,070 S1: world will swallow up and chew out and turn the 909 00:42:16,070 --> 00:42:18,950 S1: best person into an evil person. And I think, Greg, 910 00:42:18,950 --> 00:42:20,900 S1: I think we've both we've all said that that Greg 911 00:42:20,900 --> 00:42:23,150 S1: is a perfect example of that. You go back to 912 00:42:23,150 --> 00:42:26,420 S1: that first season when he was relatively innocent and not 913 00:42:26,420 --> 00:42:28,790 S1: really into what was going on the show ending with 914 00:42:28,790 --> 00:42:32,239 S1: him becoming the guy who stabs all of these people 915 00:42:32,239 --> 00:42:34,910 S1: to get to the top. And maybe there's nothing left 916 00:42:34,910 --> 00:42:38,030 S1: at that stage that feels like a perfect and to 917 00:42:38,030 --> 00:42:41,030 S1: what Jesse Armstrong has been trying to say with this 918 00:42:41,030 --> 00:42:41,690 S1: show about. 919 00:42:42,020 --> 00:42:44,899 S2: If Greg ends up CEO and Connor is president, I'll 920 00:42:44,900 --> 00:42:49,700 S2: just be like, that's incredible. And and it manages to work. 921 00:42:49,700 --> 00:42:52,040 S2: That's like seriously impressive Writing that. 922 00:42:52,040 --> 00:42:54,350 S3: Scene in the hotel room where Greg stands up and says, 923 00:42:54,350 --> 00:42:56,239 S3: I just feel like I have to say on behalf 924 00:42:56,239 --> 00:42:58,819 S3: of my country, do not anoint Connor President. 925 00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:02,150 S1: Yeah. And I think I think maybe just to pick 926 00:43:02,150 --> 00:43:04,700 S1: up on what you said, Thomas, the incredible thing is, like, 927 00:43:04,700 --> 00:43:06,980 S1: wherever it ends up, as long as it feels like 928 00:43:06,980 --> 00:43:09,529 S1: it makes sense, is what's worthy. And I think there's 929 00:43:09,530 --> 00:43:12,589 S1: enough groundwork that's been laid that any of these things 930 00:43:12,590 --> 00:43:15,739 S1: could happen and it would feel right. It wouldn't feel 931 00:43:15,739 --> 00:43:16,970 S1: like it came out of left field. And I think 932 00:43:16,969 --> 00:43:18,080 S1: that's the most important thing. 933 00:43:18,080 --> 00:43:20,359 S3: I think it's interesting as well what we've heard from 934 00:43:20,360 --> 00:43:23,420 S3: the the cast as well so far from that final 935 00:43:23,420 --> 00:43:26,000 S3: table read, they knew very late that this was going 936 00:43:26,000 --> 00:43:28,310 S3: to be the last season and half of them felt 937 00:43:28,310 --> 00:43:30,950 S3: while reading it that this was definitely the end and 938 00:43:30,950 --> 00:43:32,210 S3: it made a lot of sense. And half of them 939 00:43:32,210 --> 00:43:35,029 S3: were like, This is a bit of an anti-climax, or 940 00:43:35,030 --> 00:43:37,070 S3: you could add more. So I think that's very interesting 941 00:43:37,070 --> 00:43:39,200 S3: in where we're heading. It's not going to be, you know, 942 00:43:39,200 --> 00:43:41,090 S3: one person sitting on the iron throne. It's going to 943 00:43:41,090 --> 00:43:45,830 S3: be this messy, complex thing that doesn't really satisfy anyone. 944 00:43:45,830 --> 00:43:46,640 S3: But that's the point. 945 00:43:47,570 --> 00:43:50,120 S1: Well, I can't wait to do this again every week 946 00:43:50,120 --> 00:43:52,460 S1: for the next ten weeks with you guys. So we 947 00:43:52,460 --> 00:43:55,370 S1: have succession. The TV show will kick off on Binge 948 00:43:55,370 --> 00:43:59,720 S1: next Monday. The recaps will be in your feed from Tuesday. 949 00:44:00,200 --> 00:44:02,900 S1: And we have, as I mentioned, some really exciting guests 950 00:44:02,900 --> 00:44:05,900 S1: joining us for the ride as well. Meg Thomas, thank you. 951 00:44:07,200 --> 00:44:08,130 S2: Thanks. Thanks for having me. 952 00:44:13,170 --> 00:44:16,620 S1: This episode of The Drop was produced by David Macmillan. 953 00:44:16,890 --> 00:44:19,830 S1: If you enjoyed listening to today's episode of The Drop, 954 00:44:19,830 --> 00:44:22,500 S1: make sure to follow us in your favorite podcast app. 955 00:44:22,500 --> 00:44:24,840 S1: Give us a review or better yet, share it with 956 00:44:24,840 --> 00:44:27,569 S1: a friend. I'm Osman Farooqui. See you soon.