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S1: Hey, I'm Osman Farooqui and this is the drop a

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S1: culture show from the Sydney Morning Herald and The Age,

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S1: where we dive into the latest in the world of

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S1: pop culture and entertainment. I'm here with Thomas Mitchell and

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S1: Mel Campbell. How you going, guys? Are you excited about

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S1: Madame Web, the Sony Pictures Spider-Man spin off starring Dakota

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S1: Johnson and Sydney Sweeney?

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S2: Well, the thing is, if I was to cast my

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S2: dream movie, it would star Sydney Sweeney and Dakota Johnson.

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S3: That's actually Sandra and myself.

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S2: Yeah, but, like, sadly, I don't think it would be

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S2: as bad as Madame Webb appears to be. I saw

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S2: a very funny review only moments ago from someone that

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S2: was like, I've never been so embarrassed for a movie

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S2: in my whole entire life. Embarrassed for the people involved,

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S2: embarrassing myself for watching it. Um, it it looks like

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S2: Marvel's greatest stinker.

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S3: Yeah, it's just unfortunate timing, isn't it? When everyone's off,

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S3: Marvel and Marvel is hitting kind of the low point

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S3: of its trajectory to have these two great actresses in

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S3: it and it to not work?

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S1: Yeah, it is it is sad. I think it's really

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S1: funny going back to read the interviews with Dakota and Sydney.

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S1: When they signed on, they thought they were like entering

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S1: the MCU, the Marvel Cinematic Universe, and I think they

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S1: didn't realize that they're in the weird Sony Spider-Man verse

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S1: where they're not allowed to, like, mention Spider-Man's name. They've

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S1: got the rights to like, secondary Spider-Man characters Morbius and Spider-Man.

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S1: Madame web, Spider Woman, whatever it is. But the thing

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S1: that I'm the most annoyed about, I don't know if

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S1: you guys remember this from when the trailer of this

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S1: film was released a few months ago. This one line

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S1: went viral because it was just insane. Is this like

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S1: dialogue from Dakota Johnson where she says he was in

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S1: the Amazon with my mom when she was researching spiders

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S1: right before she died. Like that became a meme because

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S1: of how insane that is. That sentence in full does

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S1: not exist in the film. It was like stitched together

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S1: from like her saying different bits and pieces. And I

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S1: feel like so many people wanted to see the movie

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S1: knowing that it was a trainwreck because of this meme,

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S1: and they're going to be really let down and disappointed

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S1: and sad. So you've seen I have not seen it

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S1: and I don't know if I will. I'm sorry to

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S1: anyone who works at Sony Pictures listening to this podcast,

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S1: but I gotta I gotta triage my time, man, I

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S1: can't do I can't do the bad ones.

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S2: It's funny though, because I feel like everyone collectively agreed

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S2: that the movie was bad before it came out. It

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S2: was obviously going to be a piece of shit, but

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S2: then like watching them on the like, publicity circuit, having

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S2: to promote the film, like you've really feel for Dakota Johnson.

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S2: She's a good actress and she's just been like, yeah, she.

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S1: Clearly was not just caught up in the publicity to it.

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S2: Yeah, no.

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S3: I feel like post 50 Shades of Gray, she's kind

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S3: of done some more interesting. Like The Lost Daughter was

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S3: a very interesting film, more interesting roles, that one that

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S3: we liked. Um, cha cha smooth. Yeah. Um, and then

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S3: to kind of come back into the blockbuster with, with

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S3: something like this, I.

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S1: Hope she's getting that bag at least. Like, I hope

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S1: her and Sidney are getting a lot of cash. I'm

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S1: very happy for them. They looked great on the red

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S1: carpet last night. They did? Um, look, the point of

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S1: today's episode is not to go deep on Madame Webb.

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S1: Don't worry. We're gonna be talking predominantly about Australia's national

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S1: cultural obsession with reality TV and this kind of take

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S1: that I've been developing about how it's become, I think,

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S1: kind of our most significant cultural export. We're going to

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S1: dive into how exactly that came to be, whether it's

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S1: good or bad or a little bit of both for

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S1: the Australian entertainment industry. And we will, of course, have

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S1: our regular Impress Your Friends recommendation segment at the end

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S1: of the show as well. But before we get to those,

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S1: we're a couple of days on from the Super Bowl.

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S1: Have you guys recovered? Well you guys Chiefs fans I

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S1: don't really know who you were barracking for.

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S3: I think I was going for the Chiefs. Um, you

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S3: know Patrick Mahomes a great I wanted him to get

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S3: his third best, one of the best quarterbacks of all time. Um,

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S3: but I was also obviously very invested in the off

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S3: the field drama. And that's what I was really there for.

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S3: The Super Bowl ads, the kind of announcements that took

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S3: place during them, the celebrities in the crowd, the halftime show,

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S3: obviously our main girl, Taylor turning up.

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S2: She definitely did turn up. Yeah, I mean, I couldn't

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S2: really care less about the actual football. I was glad

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S2: that the Kansas City Chiefs won because that seemed to

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S2: be like the storyline everyone was hoping would happen.

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S1: The storyline at the Deep State had had implanted in

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S1: the American like, you know, psyche.

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S2: Yeah. I mean, also, it's worth shouting out just how

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S2: crazy but hilarious it was that Joe Biden tweeted a

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S2: picture of himself with, like, you know, the demonic eyes

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S2: being like, we did it.

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S1: Like just just just filling in the.

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S2: Blanks now, guys. Yeah. Um, I think I live blogged it, um,

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S2: and obviously wrote a kind of wrap up on the

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S2: halftime show. I think the halftime show is a really

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S2: interesting kind of, you know, performance segment and opportunity for

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S2: people like, you know, in the entertainment industry. And it

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S2: offers this really strange, you know, unique cultural moment. And

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S2: every year it's like a talked about thing, as we

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S2: all know. And obviously usher did it this year and

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S2: obviously it was bad.

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UU: Okay. How's your baby. Let's open the club of mine.

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UU: Tryna get a little bit. Yeah.

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S4: Keep it down low key. Cause you know, I.

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S3: I completely disagree with this day.

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S1: I was going to say, is that widely agreed that

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S1: it's bad, like you and I were, were talking about

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S1: this as it was happening and you were just completely

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S1: off it. And I thought there was a lot more

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S1: positivity around it generally from from other people.

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S2: Yeah, I know, like I mean, I obviously didn't think

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S2: it was bad. I do think that the predominant feeling

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S2: around it was like one of being underwhelmed. But then

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S2: I would say I went into it with low expectations.

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S2: I always thought Asha was an odd choice. Um, he

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S2: doesn't really for me have the like, not only like

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S2: he's not obviously not that relevant now. He's a nostalgia act.

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S2: But like, even back then, I don't think he's big

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S2: enough to, like, anchor a Super Bowl halftime show alone.

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S2: Maybe if he had brought out some guests, some more guests.

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S2: But yeah, then I thought the performance itself was like

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S2: slick and everything. It looked good and he sounded fine,

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S2: but it was just underwhelming. Man.

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S3: I didn't get what was not to like about this show.

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S3: I also had quite low expectations because usher, he does

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S3: have a new album out, which was kind of why

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S3: he's done this, but no one's listening to the album. No, no, no,

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S3: I agree. I had quite low expectations, but there he was,

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S3: dancing a big brass band, shirts off, great cameo features

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S3: by people. Um, and then there was the roller skating.

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S3: I just, I don't know what was underwhelming about this show.

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S2: Like, that's what I mean. Like, so the Super Bowl

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S2: is like synonymous now with moments. The moment from the okay,

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S2: maybe there was two moments him with his shirt off

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S2: and he's like got a good rig for 45 and

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S2: him on roller skates like that's fucking.

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S3: So that's two moments. Not one moment I think there

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S3: I think there are moments.

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S1: But I think they had nothing to do with usher.

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S1: Like I think Alicia Keys coming out was like pretty fun. Um,

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S1: I thought Little John was like my highlight, like, particularly

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S1: because before, like, Little John and Usher have. Yeah, obviously

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S1: huge iconic song that closed out the the show, but

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S1: he just got Lil John to do turn down for

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S1: what for like 30s. That was pretty cool. And then

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S1: Ludacris looking like Ludacris really looked so silly. That was

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S1: also fun. But I kind of agree with Thomas. Like

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S1: it was like sort of interesting, but it didn't feel

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S1: like it made the most of the spectacle that a

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S1: Super Bowl halftime show could be. We know that usher

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S1: has just been finishing up his long term Vegas residency,

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S1: and it sort of did feel he just taken that

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S1: stage show and put it on the Super Bowl and

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S1: maybe not gone for anything a bit more like wacky

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S1: and intense.

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S3: Yeah. I don't think it's going to stand the test

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S3: of time as one of the best Super Bowl shows,

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S3: of course, but I thought it was better than I expected,

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S3: and I thought her on the guitar was really good.

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S2: Yeah, but that's what I mean. It's like better than

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S2: I expected. And it was okay, like, this is all

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S2: it was all fine. But like, when we do, like

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S2: next year, inevitably when we like roll into the Super

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S2: Bowl again and be like the ten best, it's never

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S2: going to be on the list of like memorable ones, right?

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S3: I agree also, I think I have like a nostalgia, um,

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S3: because at our school we were a public school and

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S3: we were obviously not good at sport. And so for

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S3: sport days, we used to be able to do these

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S3: like insane sports, and one of them was Skate Plus.

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S3: Like we'd just go roller skating and and because it

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S3: was that time, I just remember going to skate class,

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S3: going round and round to like Burn and Confessions. So

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S3: when he came out on the roller skates, it really

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S3: there was a lot of nostalgic feels going on there.

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S1: It is interesting how many other cultural moments overshadowed Asia, like,

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S1: I think you mentioned Taylor Swift. We'll talk about that

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S1: in a second. But I also think one of the

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S1: ones that maybe didn't seem like it at the time,

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S1: but has had a bit of staying power, is the

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S1: Dunkin Donuts commercial with Ben Affleck and Damon like that

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S1: was probably the best ad of of the of the

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S1: show for me.

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S2: Yeah, I thought that was a very funny ad. I love,

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S2: like the friendship of Ben Affleck and Matt Damon so much. Like,

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S2: I just, I think I want a friendship like that

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S2: for myself one day. Um. Wow. Neither of you. Wow.

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S1: Okay. The three of us are not that friendship.

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S2: No, but they're just so funny. And then, like, as

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S2: they're walking off together and he's like, you know, I'd

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S2: say I'd do anything for you, like, this is anything. Um,

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S2: those guys and J.Lo.

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S3: Getting in on it, too. Yeah. And then Tom.

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S2: Brady, it's like, man, nothing but the hits. So I

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S2: didn't think.

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S3: He was looking great. Being off the off the field

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S3: hasn't I don't know I don't know I reckon he's

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S3: struggling without his game. Yeah.

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S1: And look Taylor Swift was probably the single biggest draw

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S1: of the event. Like that was probably as many people

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S1: watching the show for her as they were for the

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S1: actual NFL, if not more. She arrived with her entourage

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S1: of like, Blake Lively, but sans Ryan Reynolds, which I

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S1: thought was interesting because Ryan and Reynolds's trailer for Deadpool

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S1: three was like a big part of the Super Bowl two,

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S1: but it was not really clear where he was. Um,

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S1: she also rocked up with ice Spice, who I made

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S1: a joke about being at the Grammys last week. So

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S1: now I guess I'm wrong. And when I spice does

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S1: die in 50 years, there's going to be a Taylor

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S1: Swift organized tribute for it. Uh, and then she also

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S1: brought up Lana Del Rey to hang out as well.

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S1: I mean, she was doing a lot in this, like

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S1: the usual kind of cheering, but also she like, scolded

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S1: drink for the camera when it was on her at

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S1: some point. We talked about Taylor fatigue last week. I'm

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S1: interested in how we feel about it now. A bit

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S1: of a chicken, given that since then we've had the

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S1: Super Bowl stuff and we're like 2 or 3 days

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S1: away from her actual shows in this country. Has the

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S1: Taylor fatigue. Ometer going.

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S5: Oh, look at the camera.

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S3: I think that I watch this and I was kind

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S3: of like, let the girl live, let her have a

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S3: good time drinking a drink.

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S5: Mel, you've already got your ticket sorted, all right?

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S1: You don't have to suck up anymore.

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S2: Yeah, universal are taking you.

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S3: She knows that everyone is going to criticize her for everything,

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S3: and I just, I don't know, I just thought it

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S3: was fine. And she didn't annoy me at all. And

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S3: then I've been watching all the TikToks come out from

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S3: the afterparty. Her and Travis. Kelsey just like dancing to love,

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S3: having a great time together, her holding a one drink

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S3: in a hand with her other hand around him. And

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S3: I just, I don't know, I don't think we need

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S3: to be miserly. I obviously still think Taylor is fair

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S3: game for criticism, but I don't know. I'm fine with

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S3: her being there. Um, the only thing I will say was,

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S3: and maybe this was just when they were cutting to her,

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S3: I thought she didn't look as tense as I would

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S3: probably look if my partner was in such a kind

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S3: of intense game and moment, like she was always having

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S3: fun and there was so much hugging and laughing and happiness.

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S3: And then they would cut to Britney Mahomes. And she

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S3: was she looked dead serious. She was in it not

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S3: happy at all. So I thought maybe Taylor just needed

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S3: to save the celebrations for after Travis was saying.

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S2: Yeah, especially Kevin. He was like, you know, what.

255
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S3: About you, Thomas? Do you dare speak up in case

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S3: the Swifties come after you?

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S2: Well, I mean, I do think my fatigue meter has maxed, uh,

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S2: up until next Friday when I two attends the show,

259
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S2: which I'm very excited about, thanks to our friends at universal.

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S2: But I think that, no, I do like I mean, look,

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S2: I do actually feel free because, you know, we're we're

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S2: one day out from her signing this enormous, sold out

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S2: tour that everyone in the country has been talking about

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S2: ad nauseum forever. But on top of that, she just, like,

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S2: stole the show at the biggest sporting spectacle in the world. Like,

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S2: it's pretty insane overexposure. And it's like, not her fault,

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S2: but like, I just think any normal person is a

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S2: bit like, can we please stop talking about Taylor Swift

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S2: for a bit? Um, but that's not her fault. Uh,

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S2: I think, yeah, I think, you know, it was interesting

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S2: to watch that whole thing I was actually more interested in,

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S2: in the actual fallout from the Travis Kelsey stuff and

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S2: watching how the internet Swifties like, kind of maybe turned

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S2: on him, like his storyline is taking a real turn

275
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S2: now if you're like, oh, he's a red flag.

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S1: Because of that moment where he was sort of shouting

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S1: at the coach. Yeah.

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S2: And like his, he did the weird Viva Las Vegas thing,

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S2: which people that weren't into, he just seemed a bit

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S2: like I think the Swifties were like, hmm, some brand

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S2: damage for us now with Travis.

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S1: Yeah, that was his viral moment going around. It's like

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S1: you can pinpoint the moment where she gets the ick

284
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S1: and I'm like, look, again, I think that's kind of unhinged, right? Crazy.

285
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S1: You're trying to. Diagnose someone's feelings about their partner based

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S1: on a reaction to a random thing like, who knows?

287
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S1: I look, yeah, I don't want to get into like

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S1: the politics of it or whatever, but it is completely

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S1: absurd to me, this discourse playing out in America where

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S1: like the right and the far right, uh, anti the

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S1: Kansas City Chiefs, uh, and the NFL and Taylor Swift,

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S1: it's like these things are the most traditionally like small

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S1: KC conservative coded like cultural institutions in the world. And

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S1: you're like they're all left wing crazy. Like, you know,

295
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S1: pro-biden we're alienating ourselves from them just because Taylor Swift

296
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S1: has started going to games to hang out with and

297
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S1: support her boyfriend, it's like completely unhinged.

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S2: My favorite thing from well, with this, my favorite thing

299
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S2: was watching, uh, the after party scenes, and it's like

300
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S2: Travis and Taylor dancing and they just pan across to

301
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S2: what's his crazy brother.

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S3: Oh my God, Jason Kelsey.

303
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S2: And he's like behind the DJ wearing like a horse

304
00:13:12,760 --> 00:13:14,380
S2: head and got like two beers. He was.

305
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S3: The party.

306
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S2: Yeah. I'm like, that's where it's at.

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S1: So on to the biggest announcement of the night, at

308
00:13:18,610 --> 00:13:22,060
S1: least from my perspective, had an ad for Verizon that

309
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S1: play during the game. Beyonce dropped a little hint at

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S1: the end of that ad, uh, that she had new

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S1: music on the way. And then very quickly we got

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S1: the new music and we got the announce it was

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S1: act two of Renaissance, an album from a couple of

314
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S1: years ago. It's coming in March. And she dropped two very,

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S1: very heavily country leaning tracks.

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S6: This Ain't Texas.

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UU: Ain't No Hold em, lay your cards down, down, down, down.

318
00:13:51,220 --> 00:13:52,390
UU: So pocket lakes.

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S1: Texas Hold'em and 16 carriages. I got one phrase for

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S1: you guys. Yeehaw! Here we go. We got Beyonce country albums.

321
00:14:01,270 --> 00:14:04,270
S1: We got a Lana Del Rey country album. We country

322
00:14:04,270 --> 00:14:06,880
S1: heads at eight. And we were onto this from last year. Thomas.

323
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S1: We were saying the country renaissance is here. Everyone's pivoting.

324
00:14:10,390 --> 00:14:13,150
S1: We're getting in early. I'm very excited about this. What

325
00:14:13,150 --> 00:14:15,070
S1: do you guys think of these new Beyonce tracks?

326
00:14:15,070 --> 00:14:18,130
S3: And literally it is the country renaissance because it's Renaissance

327
00:14:18,130 --> 00:14:19,060
S3: part two, right?

328
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S2: Um, wow. Bang.

329
00:14:20,920 --> 00:14:22,510
S5: She's good. She's quick.

330
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S3: Um, look, even us non country heads are excited about this,

331
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S3: because if anyone could make me like country music, it's

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00:14:29,860 --> 00:14:33,190
S3: probably Beyonce. Um, I think. Yeah. And she had she

333
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S3: did spell out that kind of she was going to

334
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S3: tackle different genres through her Renaissance albums. So I think

335
00:14:39,580 --> 00:14:41,680
S3: this is an interesting move. And then I really like

336
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S3: the first song they dropped Texas.

337
00:14:43,180 --> 00:14:45,460
S2: Hold'em Texas hold'em. Great song. Oh my gosh.

338
00:14:45,460 --> 00:14:48,820
S3: Catchy. That banjo. The kind of stomp clap of it

339
00:14:48,820 --> 00:14:52,090
S3: I thought it's a very catchy song. And obviously I

340
00:14:52,090 --> 00:14:55,930
S3: think this is the regeneration that the country genre needs. Yeah,

341
00:14:55,930 --> 00:14:56,110
S3: I think.

342
00:14:56,110 --> 00:14:58,180
S2: It's just nice to have confirmation again, awesome that you

343
00:14:58,180 --> 00:14:59,950
S2: and I are like just ahead of the curve and

344
00:14:59,950 --> 00:15:02,980
S2: we know what's coming. And, you know, we've been blazing

345
00:15:02,980 --> 00:15:05,290
S2: these trails and it's good to just good to learn

346
00:15:05,290 --> 00:15:05,590
S2: that again.

347
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S5: I mean.

348
00:15:06,160 --> 00:15:09,160
S1: I've been wanting more of this from Beyonce since daddy.

349
00:15:09,160 --> 00:15:11,320
S1: Lessons on Lemonade Like that is one of my favorite

350
00:15:11,320 --> 00:15:13,780
S1: songs on that track. That is like out in that country.

351
00:15:13,780 --> 00:15:16,090
S1: And there's it's been this kind of like daddy lessons

352
00:15:16,090 --> 00:15:18,850
S1: hive that is like, let's go. So all the all

353
00:15:18,850 --> 00:15:21,910
S1: the daddy Lessons fans were, were really jumping out of

354
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S1: their seats.

355
00:15:22,270 --> 00:15:24,730
S3: And that was rejected by the Grammys as a country song.

356
00:15:24,730 --> 00:15:26,050
S3: When it first came out, they wouldn't listen.

357
00:15:26,050 --> 00:15:26,739
S5: Well, this is the other.

358
00:15:26,740 --> 00:15:28,810
S1: Part of this, right? This is this. This goes back

359
00:15:28,810 --> 00:15:30,850
S1: to like Lil NAS X and Old Town Road when,

360
00:15:30,850 --> 00:15:34,989
S1: when the when the, um, uh, recording industry, uh, the, uh,

361
00:15:34,990 --> 00:15:38,920
S1: Billboard charts wouldn't let that be classified as country. And

362
00:15:38,920 --> 00:15:41,740
S1: then Billy Ray Cyrus was like, this is completely outrageous

363
00:15:41,740 --> 00:15:44,080
S1: and jumped on and said, now it's a country song

364
00:15:44,080 --> 00:15:46,960
S1: and it's already happening. There's these stories and reports of, uh,

365
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S1: Beyonce fans trying to get country radio stations to play

366
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S1: Texas Hold'em in 16 carriages. And they're like, we don't

367
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S1: play Beyonce. We're a country station. So I think we're

368
00:15:55,030 --> 00:15:59,200
S1: about to have a very big conversation about, uh, black

369
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S1: art and culture and country and how these two things

370
00:16:02,470 --> 00:16:05,500
S1: will combine all in the lead up to a presidential

371
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S1: election contest between Joe Biden and Donald Trump. So I'm

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00:16:07,540 --> 00:16:09,160
S1: sure it's going to be very sane and a very

373
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S1: normal conversation that America has, uh, as a result of

374
00:16:12,700 --> 00:16:14,770
S1: this record. But as much as I'm a little bit

375
00:16:14,770 --> 00:16:16,840
S1: frustrated by it, I honestly cannot wait to talk about

376
00:16:16,840 --> 00:16:18,400
S1: it because it's the shit that gets me going. I

377
00:16:18,400 --> 00:16:18,610
S1: was gonna.

378
00:16:18,610 --> 00:16:20,200
S2: Say, it's gonna be some long nights in the taco

379
00:16:20,200 --> 00:16:24,040
S2: factory for Osman, just cooking up, not just working away.

380
00:16:24,040 --> 00:16:26,140
S2: A pinch of this, a dash of that, and then.

381
00:16:27,250 --> 00:16:30,100
S1: You'll see me going live on Instagram. I like 10 p.m.

382
00:16:30,100 --> 00:16:31,210
S1: a lot with a bottle of wine.

383
00:16:31,210 --> 00:16:32,530
S2: It is. It is funny, though, that we're gonna have.

384
00:16:32,530 --> 00:16:35,140
S2: So now Beyonce new album March Taylor new album in

385
00:16:35,140 --> 00:16:37,750
S2: April and then Dua Lipa has got a new album

386
00:16:37,750 --> 00:16:41,530
S2: coming to an Ariana Grande. Like that's the yeah, huge,

387
00:16:41,530 --> 00:16:43,690
S2: huge year of new music from some of the biggest

388
00:16:43,690 --> 00:16:44,620
S2: like trends.

389
00:16:44,740 --> 00:16:46,540
S1: Yeah, I'm really I'm really looking forward to it and

390
00:16:46,540 --> 00:16:48,520
S1: I'm sure we will talk about it. Uh, when, when

391
00:16:48,520 --> 00:16:50,140
S1: we get to hear those records.

392
00:16:56,970 --> 00:17:00,120
S7: Hi, I'm Samantha, Sandra Morris. I'm here because I want

393
00:17:00,120 --> 00:17:01,590
S7: to let you know that at the age in the

394
00:17:01,590 --> 00:17:05,070
S7: Sydney Morning Herald, we've just relaunched our daily news podcast.

395
00:17:05,310 --> 00:17:08,310
S7: It's now called The Morning Edition, and I'm your host.

396
00:17:08,430 --> 00:17:11,280
S7: In every episode, we unpack the biggest stories of the

397
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S7: day with the best journalists in the country. Like Nick McKenzie,

398
00:17:15,820 --> 00:17:19,210
S7: who broke the story about Ben Roberts-Smith, the war hero

399
00:17:19,210 --> 00:17:20,530
S7: turned war criminal.

400
00:17:20,680 --> 00:17:22,870
S8: Now what was going on from Dadaab? It was about

401
00:17:22,869 --> 00:17:25,960
S8: intimidation and shutting us up and saying, you come after

402
00:17:25,960 --> 00:17:27,939
S8: Ben Roberts-Smith, he'll come after you.

403
00:17:28,180 --> 00:17:31,540
S7: And Kate McClymont, whose investigations are synonymous with some of

404
00:17:31,540 --> 00:17:34,659
S7: the biggest scandals and stories in Australian public life.

405
00:17:34,810 --> 00:17:39,460
S9: When Eddie Obeid finally went to jail. I can remember

406
00:17:39,460 --> 00:17:42,729
S9: being in the newsroom at the Herald and I actually

407
00:17:42,730 --> 00:17:43,960
S9: burst into tears.

408
00:17:43,990 --> 00:17:47,140
S7: The Morning Edition will take you beyond the headlines, bringing

409
00:17:47,140 --> 00:17:50,470
S7: you the story behind the story. You can find it

410
00:17:50,470 --> 00:17:53,500
S7: by searching for the Morning Edition in your podcast app

411
00:17:53,500 --> 00:17:56,800
S7: of choice. New episodes will be in your feed every

412
00:17:56,800 --> 00:17:57,700
S7: weekday morning.

413
00:18:02,990 --> 00:18:06,920
S1: All right, let's talk reality television. We already know that

414
00:18:06,920 --> 00:18:09,020
S1: it's big all over the world and has been for

415
00:18:09,020 --> 00:18:13,130
S1: a while, franchises like The Real Housewives, Vanderpump Rules, survivor,

416
00:18:13,130 --> 00:18:16,490
S1: my precious, precious traitors that some of the biggest shows

417
00:18:16,490 --> 00:18:19,010
S1: in the world and have been for years. But the

418
00:18:19,010 --> 00:18:23,030
S1: genre seems to be particularly popular here in Australia for

419
00:18:23,030 --> 00:18:25,100
S1: the last few years. The way that the TV calendar

420
00:18:25,100 --> 00:18:27,470
S1: has worked is that we come back from the summer break,

421
00:18:27,470 --> 00:18:30,590
S1: the writing season officially begins and all the main networks

422
00:18:30,590 --> 00:18:34,310
S1: go out with their big flagship reality programs. You've got

423
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S1: ten Survivor Seven's Australian Idol nine, which we should point

424
00:18:38,210 --> 00:18:39,919
S1: out is the company that owns the newspapers that we

425
00:18:39,920 --> 00:18:42,140
S1: work at. They've got Married at First Sight, the kind

426
00:18:42,140 --> 00:18:46,310
S1: of big ratings juggernaut, and outside of news and current

427
00:18:46,310 --> 00:18:49,879
S1: affairs programming, these shows dominate the ratings like they are

428
00:18:49,880 --> 00:18:52,520
S1: the most watched shows day in, day out, week in,

429
00:18:52,520 --> 00:18:56,060
S1: week out, throughout the year in Australia, and the only

430
00:18:56,060 --> 00:18:59,270
S1: other shows that have come close so far this year

431
00:18:59,270 --> 00:19:02,810
S1: to competing with those big traditional reality formats are the

432
00:19:02,810 --> 00:19:05,360
S1: ABC's Muster Dogs, which I don't know if you guys

433
00:19:05,359 --> 00:19:07,220
S1: have seen, but people really love muscle dogs.

434
00:19:07,220 --> 00:19:08,030
S5: I haven't seen that.

435
00:19:08,660 --> 00:19:10,580
S3: Have you watched it? It's it's adorable.

436
00:19:10,700 --> 00:19:13,010
S1: I also haven't watched it. But like people love this

437
00:19:13,010 --> 00:19:15,920
S1: show and it is basically a reality show, like it's

438
00:19:15,920 --> 00:19:19,910
S1: an ABC version of a reality show about these working dogs.

439
00:19:19,910 --> 00:19:21,410
S1: I was I was told to not refer to them

440
00:19:21,410 --> 00:19:24,500
S1: as cattle dogs because that's like, that's not giving them

441
00:19:24,500 --> 00:19:27,740
S1: their due because some of them also do sheep dog mustering.

442
00:19:27,740 --> 00:19:30,530
S1: So they're working dogs. That is the I believe woke

443
00:19:30,530 --> 00:19:33,770
S1: and PC term for these, for these animals, um, kind

444
00:19:33,770 --> 00:19:36,380
S1: of competing to be the best one that that's basically

445
00:19:36,380 --> 00:19:38,480
S1: a reality show. And then the other show that's rated

446
00:19:38,480 --> 00:19:41,180
S1: well so far this year is also an ABC one,

447
00:19:41,180 --> 00:19:44,449
S1: their big budget political series about the last kind of

448
00:19:44,450 --> 00:19:47,480
S1: ten years of liberal governments called nemesis. I mean, that's

449
00:19:47,480 --> 00:19:50,510
S1: also basically a reality show, and it's so similar that

450
00:19:50,510 --> 00:19:53,300
S1: one of our colleagues, Jackie Maley, wrote a column comparing

451
00:19:53,300 --> 00:19:55,520
S1: it to The Real Housewives of Canberra. And if it's

452
00:19:55,520 --> 00:19:58,880
S1: not traditional reality in that it's competition, I think that

453
00:19:58,880 --> 00:20:02,689
S1: style of like the diary format and like just rehashing

454
00:20:02,690 --> 00:20:06,500
S1: these dramatic moments, it seems inspired by the direction that

455
00:20:06,500 --> 00:20:08,900
S1: reality has gone down in the last couple of years.

456
00:20:09,470 --> 00:20:11,540
S1: I guess a lot of this might not be shocking

457
00:20:11,540 --> 00:20:14,030
S1: to people considering people listening to this. Probably watch these

458
00:20:14,030 --> 00:20:15,950
S1: shows and they're like, yeah, I know that they're popular,

459
00:20:15,950 --> 00:20:18,350
S1: but I think there is another part to this conversation

460
00:20:18,350 --> 00:20:20,419
S1: as well. And this came up in a conversation I

461
00:20:20,420 --> 00:20:23,179
S1: was having with our colleague Meg, who just by the

462
00:20:23,180 --> 00:20:25,670
S1: by you, she's been on parental leave, which is why

463
00:20:25,670 --> 00:20:28,040
S1: she's not really been writing for us lately. But she

464
00:20:28,040 --> 00:20:31,550
S1: popped into the office this morning with her beautiful twins,

465
00:20:31,700 --> 00:20:33,350
S1: Sophie and Max. That was very fun. It's put me

466
00:20:33,350 --> 00:20:35,510
S1: in a very good mood. Um, her and I were

467
00:20:35,510 --> 00:20:39,350
S1: texting the other day about Australian reality TV and talking

468
00:20:39,350 --> 00:20:43,129
S1: about how there's been this growing acknowledgment overseas for the

469
00:20:43,130 --> 00:20:47,060
S1: last few years that Australian reality TV is being very,

470
00:20:47,060 --> 00:20:50,960
S1: very warmly received by international audiences, particularly in the United

471
00:20:50,960 --> 00:20:55,520
S1: Kingdom and the US. Last year's, uh, last year's season

472
00:20:55,520 --> 00:20:57,919
S1: of Survivor Australia is widely considered to be one of

473
00:20:57,920 --> 00:21:01,310
S1: the best ever. The first season of traders is going

474
00:21:01,310 --> 00:21:05,030
S1: ballistic in America right now, and MAFs is been shocking

475
00:21:05,030 --> 00:21:07,970
S1: and delighting people all over the world. Uh, for a

476
00:21:07,970 --> 00:21:09,560
S1: couple of years. I think it went really big in

477
00:21:09,560 --> 00:21:12,620
S1: the pandemic. So I guess the question that I want

478
00:21:12,619 --> 00:21:15,080
S1: to talk to you guys about in this episode is

479
00:21:15,080 --> 00:21:20,179
S1: how did Australia become a reality TV powerhouse and and

480
00:21:20,180 --> 00:21:23,480
S1: what does it mean for our cultural production and output

481
00:21:23,480 --> 00:21:26,960
S1: more generally? Mel, maybe I'll ask you first, like how

482
00:21:26,960 --> 00:21:28,580
S1: do you feel and what do you think about our

483
00:21:28,580 --> 00:21:30,500
S1: obsession with reality in this country?

484
00:21:30,500 --> 00:21:31,340
S5: Well, I.

485
00:21:31,340 --> 00:21:33,200
S3: I mean, I don't think it is. I do think

486
00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:36,860
S3: it is a global phenomenon, um, the kind of reality

487
00:21:36,859 --> 00:21:39,800
S3: TV interest. And I do kind of think it probably

488
00:21:39,800 --> 00:21:42,260
S3: has hit a peak in a way, like I think

489
00:21:42,260 --> 00:21:44,960
S3: there was this huge oversaturation when all of the streamers

490
00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:47,930
S3: had about 15 of their own reality TV shows. So

491
00:21:47,930 --> 00:21:50,119
S3: I do think we are paring back a bit from

492
00:21:50,119 --> 00:21:53,030
S3: that in terms of like the global relevance of the

493
00:21:53,030 --> 00:21:56,210
S3: Australian shows, I guess I kind of think there's a

494
00:21:56,210 --> 00:21:58,970
S3: taste of the exotic, which might be why we're attracting

495
00:21:58,970 --> 00:22:02,540
S3: such large audiences overseas. It's the spiders and the kind

496
00:22:02,540 --> 00:22:05,570
S3: of creatures we have here. It's the beaches that we

497
00:22:05,570 --> 00:22:07,939
S3: have here. It's the kind of sense of the other.

498
00:22:07,940 --> 00:22:10,310
S3: I think that might be responsible for the kind of

499
00:22:10,310 --> 00:22:13,670
S3: global audience that we're that we're drawing on here.

500
00:22:14,600 --> 00:22:16,399
S2: Yeah, I think so. I think there's also an element

501
00:22:16,400 --> 00:22:19,070
S2: of like, you know, Australia's funny because like when you

502
00:22:19,070 --> 00:22:21,320
S2: look at reality TV as a concept, I think lots

503
00:22:21,320 --> 00:22:23,660
S2: of people generally accept that the explosion of it like

504
00:22:23,660 --> 00:22:26,479
S2: kind of began in like 2000 with survivor, like that

505
00:22:26,480 --> 00:22:29,000
S2: original survivor season with like, Remember Richard. And it was

506
00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:31,639
S2: like that kind of birthed this like phenomenon that we

507
00:22:31,640 --> 00:22:33,889
S2: now know. And Australia was like really quick to jump on,

508
00:22:33,890 --> 00:22:36,740
S2: on the train. Like the next year we had Big Brother,

509
00:22:36,770 --> 00:22:39,440
S2: the first season of which was like a cultural phenomenon

510
00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:41,810
S2: here with, you know, like Sara Murray and the bum

511
00:22:41,810 --> 00:22:43,699
S2: dance and all those like kind of characters. And then

512
00:22:43,700 --> 00:22:45,590
S2: the next year we had Australian Idol, these are, you know,

513
00:22:45,590 --> 00:22:47,750
S2: finales that are watched by millions and millions of people.

514
00:22:47,750 --> 00:22:51,500
S2: So I think what happens here is like we jumped

515
00:22:51,500 --> 00:22:54,500
S2: on to the trend really quick, and as often happens

516
00:22:54,500 --> 00:22:57,140
S2: with Australia, because we are so like far away and isolated,

517
00:22:57,140 --> 00:22:59,630
S2: we like we jump onto a trend, we watch how

518
00:22:59,630 --> 00:23:01,989
S2: it operates in the countries, you know. It seems like

519
00:23:01,990 --> 00:23:04,570
S2: America in the UK. And then once we start to

520
00:23:04,570 --> 00:23:07,300
S2: do it ourselves, we almost feel this like internal need

521
00:23:07,300 --> 00:23:10,780
S2: to make it more outrageous to lift it even further,

522
00:23:10,780 --> 00:23:12,879
S2: to go above and beyond in order to like, make

523
00:23:12,880 --> 00:23:14,800
S2: it our own. And so it's almost like we've taken

524
00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:18,160
S2: on the reality TV like rules and formats and then

525
00:23:18,160 --> 00:23:21,100
S2: just like fucking turbocharge them. And this is what's happened

526
00:23:21,100 --> 00:23:25,210
S2: so consistently with our formats then selling back overseas because like, they,

527
00:23:25,210 --> 00:23:27,670
S2: you know, they, they make maps in America, they make

528
00:23:27,670 --> 00:23:29,590
S2: maps in the UK, but they don't rate anywhere near

529
00:23:29,590 --> 00:23:32,350
S2: as high as the maths Australian season because like the

530
00:23:32,350 --> 00:23:35,950
S2: characters we have and also like slight kind of slight

531
00:23:35,950 --> 00:23:38,380
S2: tweaks to the format have like this is a word

532
00:23:38,380 --> 00:23:41,050
S2: I hear a lot talked about Australian maths, like turbocharged,

533
00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:43,480
S2: like we have just got this culture where we need

534
00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:46,690
S2: to almost like it is that kind of cultural inferiority thing.

535
00:23:46,690 --> 00:23:49,119
S2: We need to prove ourselves by going to like this

536
00:23:49,119 --> 00:23:50,139
S2: insane level.

537
00:23:50,859 --> 00:23:54,369
S1: Yeah, it almost sounds Darwinian hearing you talk about it

538
00:23:54,369 --> 00:23:56,260
S1: that way. It's like when a when a creature kind

539
00:23:56,260 --> 00:24:00,100
S1: of stumbles into a, a different, maybe slightly inhospitable environment,

540
00:24:00,100 --> 00:24:02,590
S1: it has to kind of adapt to reflect the conditions

541
00:24:02,590 --> 00:24:05,950
S1: around it. And that changes, you know, like like it

542
00:24:05,950 --> 00:24:08,890
S1: loses its feathers and grows scales or something instead. And

543
00:24:08,890 --> 00:24:11,320
S1: I feel like that sounds like what you think Australian

544
00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:13,840
S1: reality TV is good at doing. Interesting. Mel, you talking

545
00:24:13,840 --> 00:24:18,850
S1: about the exotic nature of like Australia as a setting

546
00:24:18,850 --> 00:24:22,150
S1: and also as like Australian says characters. I always find

547
00:24:22,150 --> 00:24:24,909
S1: it really funny that British I'm a Celebrity Get Me

548
00:24:24,910 --> 00:24:27,790
S1: Out of Here is filmed and set in Byron Bay. Well,

549
00:24:27,910 --> 00:24:29,710
S1: it's just like, why do they want to leave that?

550
00:24:29,710 --> 00:24:31,690
S1: But I guess for British people it's like, well, this

551
00:24:31,690 --> 00:24:33,640
S1: is sort of outlandish and funny. It's like how we

552
00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:36,220
S1: call our version, you know, it's in the jungles of

553
00:24:36,220 --> 00:24:38,590
S1: Africa when it's in this, you know, national park in

554
00:24:38,590 --> 00:24:40,990
S1: South Africa. Like, it's totally fine. Really.

555
00:24:40,990 --> 00:24:41,320
S5: Yeah.

556
00:24:41,320 --> 00:24:43,780
S3: I think it's interesting. Also, I do think, though, while

557
00:24:43,780 --> 00:24:48,729
S3: we love reality TV here, I think overseas reality TV

558
00:24:48,730 --> 00:24:52,600
S3: stars make the bridge from TV to the rest of

559
00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:56,320
S3: the world celebrity, um, more than they do here. Like,

560
00:24:56,320 --> 00:24:57,940
S3: if I think about some of the people who have

561
00:24:57,940 --> 00:25:00,910
S3: started in reality TV and are now kind of figures

562
00:25:00,910 --> 00:25:04,900
S3: of celebrity wealth and power overseas, like, you know, Donald Trump,

563
00:25:04,900 --> 00:25:08,560
S3: reality TV star to president Kim Kardashian and reality TV

564
00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:12,520
S3: star to billionaire mogul and as well as all her family,

565
00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:15,760
S3: even like Emma Stone started out on reality TV and

566
00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:19,389
S3: is now. Yeah, and is now an Oscar winning actress,

567
00:25:19,390 --> 00:25:23,170
S3: or soon to be, um, Harry styles on the talent shows.

568
00:25:23,170 --> 00:25:26,620
S3: I feel like our reality TV stars make the jump

569
00:25:26,619 --> 00:25:30,190
S3: into kind of fame beyond reality TV less than they

570
00:25:30,190 --> 00:25:31,240
S3: do overseas.

571
00:25:31,630 --> 00:25:34,270
S2: Yeah, I think so. I guess. And it's also, I mean, the,

572
00:25:34,270 --> 00:25:38,140
S2: the fact that reality TV is so like prevalent now,

573
00:25:38,140 --> 00:25:40,420
S2: there's just like the talent pool has diminished and then

574
00:25:40,420 --> 00:25:42,430
S2: people like, you're lucky if you come off and get

575
00:25:42,430 --> 00:25:45,129
S2: like a good podcast or maybe you make some money

576
00:25:45,130 --> 00:25:48,430
S2: on OnlyFans, like the days of Chrissy, Swans and Fitzy.

577
00:25:48,430 --> 00:25:51,010
S2: And you know, those types of people getting like genuine

578
00:25:51,010 --> 00:25:54,639
S2: media careers, with the exception probably of like an Abbe Chatfield. Um,

579
00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:57,310
S2: that doesn't really happen anymore, I think because of like

580
00:25:57,310 --> 00:25:59,080
S2: a bit of a fatigue on the media's part with

581
00:25:59,080 --> 00:26:01,150
S2: like the talent that comes out. But I think more

582
00:26:01,150 --> 00:26:03,669
S2: generally though, like just looking at the, the way like

583
00:26:03,670 --> 00:26:05,590
S2: and I think it's, you know, obviously, as we said,

584
00:26:05,590 --> 00:26:07,600
S2: MAFs is a channel nine show. And, you know, that's

585
00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:09,520
S2: the company that we work for. But it also is

586
00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:12,130
S2: the absolute biggest reality TV show in the country right now.

587
00:26:12,130 --> 00:26:15,400
S2: And I think that is a really interesting, like example

588
00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:18,550
S2: of what happens when a reality show format is just

589
00:26:18,550 --> 00:26:23,050
S2: like honed. It's at the season, sorry. It's at the

590
00:26:23,050 --> 00:26:25,300
S2: amount of seasons now where it maybe other shows are

591
00:26:25,300 --> 00:26:27,970
S2: taper off and it's not because it's just been like

592
00:26:27,970 --> 00:26:30,760
S2: honed and tweaked every season. They like tweak the challenges.

593
00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:32,440
S2: Like Mel and I are watching it this season. We're

594
00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:35,140
S2: both addicted, but they've like added a few extra challenges

595
00:26:35,140 --> 00:26:39,129
S2: that are so crazy. But like, every year you like it.

596
00:26:39,130 --> 00:26:41,650
S2: Just like it keeps holding. Like it keeps getting bigger

597
00:26:41,650 --> 00:26:42,220
S2: and bigger.

598
00:26:42,820 --> 00:26:44,800
S1: Well, I want to talk about that and this seems

599
00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:46,390
S1: like a good time to do it. It's like, what

600
00:26:46,390 --> 00:26:49,179
S1: are the changes that we've made. So there's a few

601
00:26:49,180 --> 00:26:50,560
S1: other bits and pieces to what we can get to.

602
00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:52,689
S1: And I think there's there's a part of like just

603
00:26:52,690 --> 00:26:56,470
S1: hearing Australians is interesting for international people and locations are

604
00:26:56,470 --> 00:26:59,890
S1: interesting for international audience. But something like MAFs, that's massive

605
00:26:59,890 --> 00:27:03,520
S1: in Australia as well as kind of resonating elsewhere. What

606
00:27:03,520 --> 00:27:06,460
S1: is it about the show and maybe talking about this

607
00:27:06,460 --> 00:27:08,980
S1: season is a good frame for that? I'm actually not

608
00:27:08,980 --> 00:27:12,310
S1: watching this season religiously. I've watched like a lot of

609
00:27:12,310 --> 00:27:14,800
S1: the other ones, but I'm just doing other things at

610
00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:17,080
S1: the moment. Um, and but you guys are not missing

611
00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:19,780
S1: a single minute of this. So what is it about

612
00:27:19,780 --> 00:27:23,530
S1: MAFs that has made it this turbocharged juggernaut?

613
00:27:23,950 --> 00:27:26,859
S3: I think it is. We talk about watercooler TV a lot,

614
00:27:26,859 --> 00:27:29,410
S3: and I think actually what is successful about MAFs is

615
00:27:29,410 --> 00:27:31,750
S3: why we also love to show, like Succession or The

616
00:27:31,750 --> 00:27:34,750
S3: White Lotus. It's the talk ability of the show. There

617
00:27:34,750 --> 00:27:37,510
S3: are all these points that you can discuss while you're

618
00:27:37,510 --> 00:27:40,960
S3: watching it. Like, I'm pretty much the director's commentary turned

619
00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:43,360
S3: on when I'm watching it. Like me and my partner

620
00:27:43,359 --> 00:27:47,710
S3: are just constantly analyzing, being the experts, offering advice. We

621
00:27:47,710 --> 00:27:50,350
S3: just talk the entire way through it. And then obviously

622
00:27:50,350 --> 00:27:52,179
S3: you talk to people who are watching it separately, and

623
00:27:52,180 --> 00:27:54,669
S3: there are so many talking points because I think it

624
00:27:54,670 --> 00:27:57,880
S3: does manage to put its finger on questions of power

625
00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:01,750
S3: in relationships, questions of gender, even questions of ethics. It's

626
00:28:01,750 --> 00:28:04,480
S3: about the show itself. There's just a lot of entry

627
00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:07,210
S3: points into a show that is seemingly quite shallow, but

628
00:28:07,210 --> 00:28:10,390
S3: you can have quite serious conversations about what is going

629
00:28:10,390 --> 00:28:11,500
S3: on in the show.

630
00:28:11,530 --> 00:28:13,360
S2: Yeah, it's a it's a show that like kind of

631
00:28:13,359 --> 00:28:15,580
S2: like thrives off its interaction. But in terms of actually

632
00:28:15,850 --> 00:28:18,369
S2: like the cold hard changes, they have been very smart.

633
00:28:18,369 --> 00:28:20,740
S2: Like if, if you go back and watch MAFs season one,

634
00:28:20,740 --> 00:28:22,780
S2: and I think we've written about this before, it feels

635
00:28:22,780 --> 00:28:26,109
S2: more like an SBS fly on the wall documentary show about,

636
00:28:26,260 --> 00:28:28,780
S2: you know, relationships and you know what happens when you

637
00:28:28,780 --> 00:28:31,480
S2: try and match two strangers who seemingly are made for

638
00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:33,760
S2: each other compared to what it is now, which is

639
00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:37,659
S2: like an experiment that is like an experiment designed to

640
00:28:37,660 --> 00:28:40,690
S2: cause chaos and give the best TV. And that, like,

641
00:28:40,690 --> 00:28:43,600
S2: was purposefully done. So like season one, you kind of

642
00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:46,030
S2: got this SBS thing. Season three, they introduced dinner parties.

643
00:28:46,030 --> 00:28:48,790
S2: So dinner parties are like once an episode week where

644
00:28:48,790 --> 00:28:51,130
S2: they get all of the couples together and they ply

645
00:28:51,130 --> 00:28:53,290
S2: them with alcohol or like, you know, alcohol is free

646
00:28:53,290 --> 00:28:55,900
S2: flowing and everyone kind of just like goes through their

647
00:28:55,900 --> 00:28:57,850
S2: grievances of the way. It's actually kind of like a

648
00:28:57,850 --> 00:29:01,150
S2: family dinner in the most traditional sense, but it's like crazy.

649
00:29:01,150 --> 00:29:03,370
S2: And this is where people like, you know, you get

650
00:29:03,370 --> 00:29:06,520
S2: the dominant personality speaking up. You get everyone, like comparing

651
00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:09,250
S2: themselves to other relationships. And that was like a masterstroke.

652
00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:11,410
S2: On top of that, we've had stuff like the Honesty

653
00:29:11,410 --> 00:29:14,200
S2: Box and like, the amazing thing about MAFs is that

654
00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:17,050
S2: they've got these experts which have become very popular, and

655
00:29:17,050 --> 00:29:20,140
S2: they have to try and justify these really, really like

656
00:29:20,650 --> 00:29:23,680
S2: insane like additions to the show that I clearly made

657
00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:25,209
S2: just to produce good TV. But that's to try and

658
00:29:25,210 --> 00:29:28,270
S2: like frame them as productive things for the relationship. So

659
00:29:28,270 --> 00:29:30,310
S2: you've got honesty box where like, you know, they have

660
00:29:30,310 --> 00:29:31,840
S2: to answer a bunch of questions about each other that

661
00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:34,270
S2: are clearly designed to, like, poke and prod at the

662
00:29:34,270 --> 00:29:36,880
S2: very obvious problems in the relationship. And then this or

663
00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:39,670
S2: maybe last season, they introduced like the trust exercise, which

664
00:29:39,670 --> 00:29:41,620
S2: we've seen a lot of drama around this season, which

665
00:29:41,620 --> 00:29:43,750
S2: is like you give your phone to your partner so

666
00:29:43,750 --> 00:29:46,390
S2: they can go through it. And obviously like, you know,

667
00:29:46,390 --> 00:29:49,060
S2: that's a that is something that is just designed for

668
00:29:49,060 --> 00:29:51,550
S2: TV purposes. And what I think is interesting about all

669
00:29:51,550 --> 00:29:53,800
S2: this is that, like, you know, I was reading a

670
00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:56,860
S2: Reddit thread yesterday that was like, why is Australian MAFs

671
00:29:56,860 --> 00:29:58,840
S2: so much better than American MAFs? And all of the

672
00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:00,670
S2: Americans are like, because we don't have this, they don't

673
00:30:00,670 --> 00:30:03,040
S2: have dinner parties, they don't have the confessions box.

674
00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:03,880
S1: That's really interesting.

675
00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:05,560
S2: They don't have a really interesting like the other one,

676
00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:08,410
S2: the photo ranking challenge where the contestants have to go

677
00:30:08,410 --> 00:30:11,380
S2: through every other, um, you know, contestant in the show

678
00:30:11,380 --> 00:30:13,660
S2: and like, rank them in order of attractiveness, including their

679
00:30:13,660 --> 00:30:16,000
S2: own partner. And like, these are just like, you know,

680
00:30:16,150 --> 00:30:16,990
S2: when you're watching it.

681
00:30:16,990 --> 00:30:18,790
S1: That's insane. But also genius.

682
00:30:19,120 --> 00:30:22,060
S3: Oh, but then I don't know, like, I feel like

683
00:30:22,060 --> 00:30:25,870
S3: I don't quite know how to justify morally my participation

684
00:30:25,870 --> 00:30:28,330
S3: in this system. Like I watch Muster Dogs and I

685
00:30:28,330 --> 00:30:31,840
S3: feel happy and I watch MAFs and I don't know,

686
00:30:31,840 --> 00:30:35,650
S3: because I do think, um, I do think that it

687
00:30:35,650 --> 00:30:40,870
S3: leans into promoting stereotypes about people and relationships. And like

688
00:30:40,870 --> 00:30:44,050
S3: in this season in particular, there's something going on with

689
00:30:44,050 --> 00:30:48,280
S3: men apparently being unable to show affection and to be intimate,

690
00:30:48,280 --> 00:30:51,910
S3: and women demanding affection and intimacy. And I don't know,

691
00:30:51,910 --> 00:30:54,760
S3: I do think it does play into stereo lines and

692
00:30:54,760 --> 00:30:59,110
S3: stereotypes about gender roles and gender relations in a way

693
00:30:59,110 --> 00:31:02,950
S3: that is digestible but is also potentially quite harmful.

694
00:31:02,950 --> 00:31:03,640
S5: Yeah, I've always found.

695
00:31:03,640 --> 00:31:06,700
S1: That bit interesting because I've sort of had a different

696
00:31:06,700 --> 00:31:08,500
S1: take on that, which is that I think a lot

697
00:31:08,500 --> 00:31:12,130
S1: of people find MAFs confronting, because the kinds of relationship

698
00:31:12,130 --> 00:31:14,979
S1: types model on the show are not ones that they

699
00:31:14,980 --> 00:31:17,770
S1: experienced themselves and not ones that they're familiar with, but

700
00:31:17,770 --> 00:31:21,130
S1: they are ones that exist and maybe exist very commonly

701
00:31:21,130 --> 00:31:24,730
S1: across all different strata of Australian society. So it feels

702
00:31:24,730 --> 00:31:26,620
S1: odd to say that it's like, well, that's not how

703
00:31:26,620 --> 00:31:30,160
S1: I have experienced dating in my social network, in my,

704
00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:33,190
S1: you know, socioeconomic bubble or whatever. I'm sorry, it's not

705
00:31:33,190 --> 00:31:34,390
S1: aimed directly at you, male. I'm just.

706
00:31:34,390 --> 00:31:37,480
S5: Talking. No, no, I have quite a few criticisms in show.

707
00:31:38,050 --> 00:31:41,260
S1: Um, and I think one thing that I do think

708
00:31:41,260 --> 00:31:43,630
S1: MAFs has done, and I think, I think I've written

709
00:31:43,630 --> 00:31:47,590
S1: about this before, is it's it's forced people to observe

710
00:31:47,590 --> 00:31:50,740
S1: those dynamics, even the unhealthy ones, and then talk about

711
00:31:50,740 --> 00:31:53,260
S1: them kind of as a community or as a society

712
00:31:53,260 --> 00:31:56,080
S1: about why they are bad and normalized. I think a

713
00:31:56,080 --> 00:31:59,110
S1: lot of people who maybe are not learning about what

714
00:31:59,110 --> 00:32:04,209
S1: good masculine versus bad masculine behaviour is or what is gaslighting,

715
00:32:04,210 --> 00:32:07,180
S1: or what is a man who is being unhealthy versus

716
00:32:07,180 --> 00:32:09,670
S1: being just a little bit jealous? I think it's probably

717
00:32:09,670 --> 00:32:12,340
S1: forced a lot of people to have conversations around that.

718
00:32:12,340 --> 00:32:15,460
S1: I remain skeptical of the idea that people watch MAFs

719
00:32:15,460 --> 00:32:17,710
S1: and see bad behaviour, and I'm like, I'm going to

720
00:32:17,710 --> 00:32:20,710
S1: emulate that. I could be totally wrong. Like, I think

721
00:32:20,710 --> 00:32:23,500
S1: that's just my knee jerk sort of response to these,

722
00:32:23,500 --> 00:32:27,010
S1: these criticisms that showing something that's violent or bad makes

723
00:32:27,010 --> 00:32:28,990
S1: people want to do it. I think there's more merit

724
00:32:28,990 --> 00:32:31,420
S1: in putting a spotlight on it and acknowledging that this

725
00:32:31,420 --> 00:32:33,760
S1: is how people play out. Of course, the caveat around

726
00:32:33,760 --> 00:32:37,120
S1: all of this is like, MAFs is not a, uh,

727
00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:40,510
S1: government produced like social services program. It is a reality

728
00:32:40,510 --> 00:32:43,660
S1: TV show where a lot of tweaks that are made

729
00:32:43,930 --> 00:32:47,320
S1: for the purposes of entertainment and making us like watch

730
00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:49,630
S1: people have drama and fight and like that part of

731
00:32:49,630 --> 00:32:52,600
S1: it is obviously not about helping people have great relationships

732
00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:55,000
S1: in their home life. But I do think that could

733
00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:56,770
S1: be and is a big part of the show.

734
00:32:56,920 --> 00:32:58,480
S2: Yeah, but it's just I just think it is funny

735
00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:01,540
S2: when you zoom out that like we are. It's easy

736
00:33:01,540 --> 00:33:03,790
S2: to have like this view of, you know, we're sitting

737
00:33:03,790 --> 00:33:05,920
S2: here in Australia talking about how great Australian masters and,

738
00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:07,870
S2: you know, made by the greatest TV channel in the world.

739
00:33:07,870 --> 00:33:10,390
S2: But the thing is, like when you do zoom out,

740
00:33:10,390 --> 00:33:12,790
S2: like America and the UK are traditionally like they're the,

741
00:33:12,820 --> 00:33:15,940
S2: you know, they are like the creators of like reality

742
00:33:15,940 --> 00:33:19,090
S2: TV and the biggest reality TV shows. And yet they

743
00:33:19,090 --> 00:33:22,300
S2: are still like consuming stuff like maths and stuff like

744
00:33:22,300 --> 00:33:24,340
S2: even MKR My Kitchen Rules, when that was like a

745
00:33:24,340 --> 00:33:27,040
S2: really strong format. That was an Australian format that then

746
00:33:27,040 --> 00:33:29,410
S2: sold to the UK and went all over the world.

747
00:33:29,410 --> 00:33:32,380
S2: So like, yeah, we have reached this particular point with

748
00:33:32,380 --> 00:33:36,760
S2: our production of reality TV formats, where even the countries

749
00:33:36,760 --> 00:33:39,370
S2: that traditionally produce way more reality TV than us are

750
00:33:39,370 --> 00:33:42,130
S2: like really, really into what our product is.

751
00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:46,900
S1: Yeah. My other thought about why we've become so adept

752
00:33:46,900 --> 00:33:51,910
S1: at refining and emulating and perfecting these formats is actually

753
00:33:51,910 --> 00:33:54,700
S1: like a structural one, like it goes to what we

754
00:33:54,700 --> 00:33:57,280
S1: make in this country and why we make it. And

755
00:33:57,280 --> 00:33:59,230
S1: there's a bit of this conversation that, like, might sound

756
00:33:59,230 --> 00:34:00,790
S1: boring because it has to do with numbers. So just

757
00:34:00,790 --> 00:34:02,830
S1: please bear with me and Thomas and Mel. If you

758
00:34:02,830 --> 00:34:04,840
S1: find a way to make it more exciting, please jump in.

759
00:34:04,840 --> 00:34:08,050
S1: But basically the show version is like we are a

760
00:34:08,050 --> 00:34:10,660
S1: small country, right? That that is never going to be

761
00:34:10,660 --> 00:34:14,380
S1: able to compete against enormous markets like the US and Europe.

762
00:34:14,380 --> 00:34:17,290
S1: So the government basically says that there should be rules

763
00:34:17,290 --> 00:34:21,640
S1: that force TV networks to create Australian shows, rather than

764
00:34:21,640 --> 00:34:25,450
S1: just like pumping, you know, different versions of NCIS and

765
00:34:25,450 --> 00:34:28,030
S1: and those and CSI on networks all the time. And

766
00:34:28,030 --> 00:34:30,700
S1: the rule at the moment, the regulation is that commercial

767
00:34:30,700 --> 00:34:34,150
S1: networks have to make sure that 55% of programming between

768
00:34:34,150 --> 00:34:38,140
S1: 6 p.m. and midnight is Australian TV, right? There used

769
00:34:38,140 --> 00:34:40,810
S1: to be rules within that that said that a set

770
00:34:40,810 --> 00:34:44,259
S1: proportion of that had to be documentaries and children's shows

771
00:34:44,260 --> 00:34:47,589
S1: and drama. Right. And a lot of Australian drama that

772
00:34:47,590 --> 00:34:50,230
S1: we grew up watching from the 90s and 2000, even

773
00:34:50,230 --> 00:34:53,799
S1: into the 20 tens, was a result of networks basically

774
00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:56,830
S1: being forced to invest in it and make it. Those

775
00:34:56,830 --> 00:35:01,540
S1: sub quarters were abolished during Covid. Uh, they have slowly

776
00:35:01,540 --> 00:35:05,049
S1: been like weakened. And at the moment it's like I

777
00:35:05,050 --> 00:35:06,730
S1: won't get into the details of it, but there's like

778
00:35:06,730 --> 00:35:09,970
S1: a complicated point system. But the wash up is basically

779
00:35:09,969 --> 00:35:12,220
S1: there is no hard and fast rule that says a

780
00:35:12,219 --> 00:35:16,359
S1: certain number of drama needs to be produced by commercial networks.

781
00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:20,500
S1: They've turned instead to reality, and it's become the thing

782
00:35:20,500 --> 00:35:22,360
S1: that if you want to survive in this country, even

783
00:35:22,360 --> 00:35:25,030
S1: if your SBS on the ABC, you have to make really,

784
00:35:25,030 --> 00:35:27,700
S1: really great reality. And so it's kind of become our

785
00:35:27,730 --> 00:35:32,950
S1: main like form of TV cultural production. America's known for like,

786
00:35:32,950 --> 00:35:35,980
S1: I guess, reality, but also prestige dramas. The British have

787
00:35:35,980 --> 00:35:39,580
S1: got crime dramas, the Northern Europeans have got Scandi noir.

788
00:35:39,580 --> 00:35:42,160
S1: And like, we've got really good seasons of MAFs to

789
00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:45,370
S1: really good seasons of survivor, really good seasons of traitors.

790
00:35:45,370 --> 00:35:47,529
S1: I think there is like a structural reason to it,

791
00:35:47,530 --> 00:35:52,330
S1: and maybe partly why overseas audiences resonate so well. Is

792
00:35:52,330 --> 00:35:55,930
S1: that the first time they're probably seeing Australians interact and

793
00:35:55,930 --> 00:36:00,100
S1: talk about their lives isn't in a great Australian drama.

794
00:36:00,100 --> 00:36:02,830
S1: It's in an Australian reality show. They're like, oh yeah,

795
00:36:02,830 --> 00:36:03,820
S1: I don't know what the Aussies are up to. I

796
00:36:03,820 --> 00:36:05,590
S1: haven't seen a great Aussie film or a great Aussie

797
00:36:05,590 --> 00:36:07,900
S1: show for like 15 years, but here's a bunch of

798
00:36:07,900 --> 00:36:10,120
S1: them frolicking around in Ireland. Let's find out what's going

799
00:36:10,120 --> 00:36:13,300
S1: on Down Under. Does that does that make sense?

800
00:36:13,989 --> 00:36:17,290
S3: Yeah it does. And I mean I do think obviously

801
00:36:17,290 --> 00:36:20,800
S3: the quota conversation is one that is ongoing in Australia.

802
00:36:20,800 --> 00:36:24,279
S3: But I do think it is a real issue that

803
00:36:24,280 --> 00:36:28,150
S3: reality TV is what all our free to air broadcasters

804
00:36:28,150 --> 00:36:31,180
S3: are largely investing in. And when you go to the upfronts,

805
00:36:31,180 --> 00:36:33,580
S3: which is what happens every year when all the broadcasters

806
00:36:33,580 --> 00:36:35,620
S3: tell you what they've got on their slate for the year,

807
00:36:35,620 --> 00:36:39,430
S3: you just see you feel like they are throwing stuff

808
00:36:39,430 --> 00:36:41,770
S3: at the wall to see what sticks. Because every year

809
00:36:41,770 --> 00:36:44,350
S3: there are new reality shows that will last for one

810
00:36:44,350 --> 00:36:47,770
S3: season and then completely disappear, as well as the staples.

811
00:36:47,770 --> 00:36:49,480
S3: And I do think it is a problem in a

812
00:36:49,480 --> 00:36:53,560
S3: country which doesn't have, as we've talked about before, funding

813
00:36:53,560 --> 00:36:56,830
S3: of the arts to allow kind of new shows and

814
00:36:56,830 --> 00:37:00,549
S3: dramas to be created, which means that profit driven broadcasters

815
00:37:00,550 --> 00:37:03,370
S3: are trying to find market comparison points like this is

816
00:37:03,370 --> 00:37:06,400
S3: the next MAFs, this is the next survivor to make

817
00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:09,040
S3: kind of their ends meet. And I think it's probably

818
00:37:09,040 --> 00:37:11,980
S3: why you're seeing some of the most interesting Australian shows,

819
00:37:11,980 --> 00:37:16,120
S3: like Bump and Heartbreak High, that they're being produced by

820
00:37:16,120 --> 00:37:19,480
S3: the streamers rather than being on free to air. Um,

821
00:37:19,480 --> 00:37:22,000
S3: and I think it is kind of a structural issue

822
00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:25,330
S3: that I don't know, is necessarily great for Australian film

823
00:37:25,330 --> 00:37:26,620
S3: and television production.

824
00:37:26,650 --> 00:37:28,899
S2: 100%. And like, you know, these these kind of like

825
00:37:28,900 --> 00:37:31,930
S2: these shows are typically cheaper to make. And I think

826
00:37:31,930 --> 00:37:33,790
S2: it's even more interesting that we're seeing less of like

827
00:37:33,790 --> 00:37:36,820
S2: the shiny, you know, show format as they used to

828
00:37:36,820 --> 00:37:39,550
S2: kind of call it, like the Australian idol's The Voice.

829
00:37:39,550 --> 00:37:42,040
S2: The MKR like MKR is gone now. That used to

830
00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:43,930
S2: be the dominant reality. And now you've got MAFs. And

831
00:37:43,930 --> 00:37:46,540
S2: so like attention has shifted to that type of thing.

832
00:37:46,540 --> 00:37:48,160
S2: But it's you completely right. Like I remember being at

833
00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:50,680
S2: the channel seven up front for 2023 and they had

834
00:37:50,680 --> 00:37:53,290
S2: the like, you know, the series Blow up we can

835
00:37:53,290 --> 00:37:56,140
S2: people were competing to make the best balloon artwork and

836
00:37:56,140 --> 00:37:57,400
S2: I was like, this is it. This is like it

837
00:37:57,400 --> 00:37:59,320
S2: was hosted by Stephen Curry and Becky Lucas. Like this

838
00:37:59,320 --> 00:38:02,650
S2: is we have hit. They rock bottom of that reality

839
00:38:02,650 --> 00:38:05,410
S2: TV when when Blow Up is getting commissioned and you

840
00:38:05,410 --> 00:38:06,040
S2: can imagine they.

841
00:38:06,040 --> 00:38:08,200
S1: Get the didn't they get a Logie wasn't like nominated

842
00:38:08,200 --> 00:38:08,980
S1: for a logo or something.

843
00:38:09,010 --> 00:38:10,450
S2: I mean, yeah, I mean we all know how you

844
00:38:10,450 --> 00:38:10,720
S2: feel about.

845
00:38:10,719 --> 00:38:12,460
S3: That play Alex episode.

846
00:38:12,610 --> 00:38:14,649
S2: But like, you know, like that was a show and

847
00:38:14,650 --> 00:38:15,910
S2: this is a perfect example of like that was a

848
00:38:15,910 --> 00:38:17,920
S2: one season show. I think after the first episode, everyone

849
00:38:17,920 --> 00:38:20,859
S2: was like, this is never coming back to TV. Um,

850
00:38:20,860 --> 00:38:22,810
S2: but it was like, that's a show that's actually getting

851
00:38:22,810 --> 00:38:24,820
S2: made and money is getting put into that because it

852
00:38:24,820 --> 00:38:27,939
S2: could possibly work. And that's an experiment they're willing to like.

853
00:38:27,940 --> 00:38:29,680
S2: They'll roll the dice on that. But you imagine the

854
00:38:29,680 --> 00:38:32,230
S2: amount of like dramas that have passed over, like not

855
00:38:32,230 --> 00:38:35,140
S2: not even getting to see the light of day. Um, yeah.

856
00:38:35,140 --> 00:38:37,180
S2: It is kind of depressing. And luckily, you know, we

857
00:38:37,180 --> 00:38:40,030
S2: do have streamers kind of stepping in now, but yeah,

858
00:38:40,030 --> 00:38:40,420
S2: I think.

859
00:38:40,420 --> 00:38:42,759
S1: The other, um, the other part to this is the

860
00:38:42,760 --> 00:38:44,290
S1: I mean, one of the big shows we've not mentioned

861
00:38:44,290 --> 00:38:46,270
S1: yet is The Block, which is also a channel nine show.

862
00:38:46,300 --> 00:38:51,850
S1: I think what that show has tapped into so effectively is,

863
00:38:51,850 --> 00:38:54,279
S1: I mean, what is more Australian than the idea of

864
00:38:54,280 --> 00:38:58,149
S1: like renovating your house and selling it to get a profit?

865
00:38:58,150 --> 00:39:01,330
S1: Like this is a country whose economy largely rests on,

866
00:39:01,330 --> 00:39:04,240
S1: like the pyramids game of ever growing house prices, and

867
00:39:04,239 --> 00:39:07,870
S1: like doing knock down rebuilds or doing interior remodeling that

868
00:39:07,870 --> 00:39:10,810
S1: is so Australian. Like we go to Bunnings instead of church.

869
00:39:10,810 --> 00:39:14,530
S1: Now we watch. We watched the block to discuss property

870
00:39:14,530 --> 00:39:18,040
S1: and renovations, and the block has also increasingly become more

871
00:39:18,040 --> 00:39:21,400
S1: of like an interior drama about the people on the

872
00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:23,590
S1: show too. So they've sort of taken those tweaks from

873
00:39:23,590 --> 00:39:25,360
S1: maps and made the block more of a thing. I

874
00:39:25,360 --> 00:39:29,980
S1: think the other part of the reality TV recipe, unlike

875
00:39:29,980 --> 00:39:33,430
S1: a lot of traditional Australian drama, it is pretty good

876
00:39:33,700 --> 00:39:37,299
S1: at reflecting the diversity of the Australian population. I think

877
00:39:37,300 --> 00:39:40,120
S1: dating shows have been the worst at it, but like

878
00:39:40,120 --> 00:39:42,400
S1: you look at the first season of Australian Idol and

879
00:39:42,400 --> 00:39:45,129
S1: like that still remains like one of the most culturally

880
00:39:45,130 --> 00:39:48,850
S1: representative shows ever made in Australia. The block has like

881
00:39:48,850 --> 00:39:51,190
S1: people on it that you see when you walk around

882
00:39:51,190 --> 00:39:54,520
S1: Sydney and Melbourne, but you don't traditionally see on on television.

883
00:39:54,520 --> 00:39:58,060
S1: And I think that's been another reason why a lot

884
00:39:58,060 --> 00:40:00,670
S1: of people who maybe wouldn't have traditionally watched Australian dramas

885
00:40:00,670 --> 00:40:02,799
S1: are like cool. This show is like, got people that

886
00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:04,510
S1: look like my cousins and my aunties and uncles. I'm

887
00:40:04,510 --> 00:40:07,060
S1: going to sit down and watch it. Interestingly, one of

888
00:40:07,060 --> 00:40:10,029
S1: the criticisms that MAFs had in the UK was that

889
00:40:10,030 --> 00:40:12,580
S1: it was too white, like people were like, this is

890
00:40:12,610 --> 00:40:14,859
S1: we didn't mention, actually that we found out from our

891
00:40:14,860 --> 00:40:17,319
S1: friend Rob Moran, who wrote a piece about this Emerald Fennell,

892
00:40:17,320 --> 00:40:19,750
S1: the director of Promising Young Woman in Soap and is

893
00:40:19,750 --> 00:40:22,120
S1: a fan of Australian MAFs, which is pretty funny.

894
00:40:22,480 --> 00:40:24,460
S2: Yeah, the fact that she was sitting there watching it

895
00:40:24,460 --> 00:40:26,290
S2: like I think it was a particular season a couple

896
00:40:26,290 --> 00:40:28,299
S2: of years ago that she was just like really, really

897
00:40:28,300 --> 00:40:30,400
S2: into and to the point where she was like tweeting

898
00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:32,200
S2: about it and she was like, Cam and Jules forever.

899
00:40:32,200 --> 00:40:34,239
S2: And yeah, she was like fully invested in the storyline.

900
00:40:34,239 --> 00:40:35,980
S2: I think she said that she did an interview with

901
00:40:35,980 --> 00:40:37,510
S2: The New York Times, and they asked her about it,

902
00:40:37,510 --> 00:40:39,340
S2: and she was like, because it was perfect, like thing

903
00:40:39,340 --> 00:40:41,230
S2: for me to switch off when I was in like,

904
00:40:41,230 --> 00:40:42,819
S2: you know, globe season or whatever it was.

905
00:40:42,820 --> 00:40:46,210
S3: Maybe that's what inspired all the cooked relationships in Saltburn. Yeah.

906
00:40:46,210 --> 00:40:48,460
S3: But I will say we were saying how reality TV

907
00:40:48,460 --> 00:40:51,069
S3: might be bad for kind of other areas of cultural

908
00:40:51,070 --> 00:40:53,410
S3: production in Australia. But I do also wonder if it

909
00:40:53,410 --> 00:40:57,160
S3: is bad for us as audiences, like if you span out,

910
00:40:57,160 --> 00:41:01,149
S3: it really taps into the kind of micro attention economy

911
00:41:01,150 --> 00:41:04,479
S3: that we are developing as consumers of media. You know,

912
00:41:04,480 --> 00:41:08,020
S3: it's like the fast, quick cuts, the spikes of adrenaline

913
00:41:08,020 --> 00:41:10,839
S3: with drama, still drama, still like it's kind of like,

914
00:41:10,840 --> 00:41:13,330
S3: will we get to the point where we consume so

915
00:41:13,330 --> 00:41:16,450
S3: much reality TV that we have rewired our brains to

916
00:41:16,450 --> 00:41:19,540
S3: be unable to sit through an episode of Mr. and Mrs. Smith,

917
00:41:19,540 --> 00:41:22,120
S3: which has a fair amount of drama without being like, gosh,

918
00:41:22,120 --> 00:41:23,920
S3: this show goes for a long time, or it's a

919
00:41:23,920 --> 00:41:26,170
S3: bit slow, you know what I mean? I do genuinely

920
00:41:26,170 --> 00:41:29,379
S3: worry that we are forgetting how to read and consume

921
00:41:29,380 --> 00:41:32,860
S3: media that isn't like this, that doesn't kind of speak

922
00:41:32,860 --> 00:41:35,890
S3: to that kind of need for a serotonin boost.

923
00:41:36,010 --> 00:41:37,810
S1: Um, yeah. I think that's a really it's a really

924
00:41:37,810 --> 00:41:40,630
S1: interesting point. I popped into a friend's place, uh, over

925
00:41:40,630 --> 00:41:42,790
S1: the weekend, and, uh, he was there with a couple

926
00:41:42,790 --> 00:41:44,290
S1: of people in the couch, and they were just sort

927
00:41:44,290 --> 00:41:46,030
S1: of slumped over watching TV. I'm like, oh, what are

928
00:41:46,030 --> 00:41:48,670
S1: you guys watching? And they're watching Below Deck, which is,

929
00:41:48,790 --> 00:41:50,470
S1: you know, a reality show about the stuff on like,

930
00:41:50,469 --> 00:41:53,259
S1: superyachts and stuff. And I'm like, uh, like, like, you know,

931
00:41:53,260 --> 00:41:55,779
S1: what's happening and like, I don't know, just is just like,

932
00:41:55,780 --> 00:41:58,210
S1: they called it smooth brain television. You just have it

933
00:41:58,210 --> 00:42:01,150
S1: on and you can be on your phone texting, you know,

934
00:42:01,150 --> 00:42:03,910
S1: seeing what's on Instagram. It is just sort of background noise.

935
00:42:03,910 --> 00:42:07,000
S1: And I wonder whether that is also a huge part

936
00:42:07,000 --> 00:42:10,360
S1: of reality TV show like Mr. and Mrs. Smith or Succession.

937
00:42:10,360 --> 00:42:11,890
S1: You kind of have to be all in on that.

938
00:42:11,890 --> 00:42:14,530
S1: Like if you're double screening, you're missing stuff. It's not

939
00:42:14,530 --> 00:42:17,350
S1: going to work. But reality is there. You can make dinner,

940
00:42:17,350 --> 00:42:19,570
S1: you can talk to your partner, you can have a

941
00:42:19,570 --> 00:42:21,520
S1: phone call. And just like have that running on in

942
00:42:21,520 --> 00:42:24,009
S1: the background, I don't yeah, I don't know if it'll

943
00:42:24,010 --> 00:42:26,860
S1: rewire our brains, Mel, but I wonder if it changes

944
00:42:26,860 --> 00:42:31,299
S1: audience expectations as to what entertainment and TV is, and

945
00:42:31,300 --> 00:42:34,060
S1: makes it harder and harder for shows that aren't structured

946
00:42:34,060 --> 00:42:37,270
S1: in that way. You're describing to succeed, I think. I

947
00:42:37,270 --> 00:42:39,580
S1: think we're already seeing that with the way that YouTube

948
00:42:39,580 --> 00:42:42,370
S1: is influencing how TV and films are made. Like so

949
00:42:42,370 --> 00:42:44,890
S1: many films, we've talked about this before, have that sort

950
00:42:44,890 --> 00:42:47,560
S1: of hook in the first minute to get your attention,

951
00:42:47,560 --> 00:42:49,570
S1: and then the story plays out. That, to me feels

952
00:42:49,570 --> 00:42:51,969
S1: very inspired by the way that YouTube videos are designed

953
00:42:51,969 --> 00:42:54,070
S1: to grab you very quickly before they tell you the

954
00:42:54,070 --> 00:42:56,380
S1: rest of the story. And maybe that's good. Maybe, like

955
00:42:56,380 --> 00:43:00,070
S1: if people liked this stuff, maybe TV should adapt from it, but.

956
00:43:00,340 --> 00:43:04,029
S1: I don't know. We're kind of purists at heart also. So, um,

957
00:43:04,030 --> 00:43:06,460
S1: I think, yeah, it's a good thing to be concerned about.

958
00:43:06,460 --> 00:43:06,640
S5: Yeah.

959
00:43:06,640 --> 00:43:08,379
S3: And I think it does speak to what you mentioned earlier,

960
00:43:08,380 --> 00:43:11,110
S3: something like, you do see the influence of reality TV

961
00:43:11,110 --> 00:43:14,230
S3: creep into other fields when in something like nemesis, that

962
00:43:14,230 --> 00:43:18,310
S3: ABC documentary where it is kind of framed, almost like

963
00:43:18,310 --> 00:43:20,560
S3: you are watching a reality TV show, even though it's

964
00:43:20,560 --> 00:43:22,720
S3: all factual, but it's the kind of fly on the

965
00:43:22,719 --> 00:43:26,229
S3: wall moments. It's the kind of quick cuts. It has

966
00:43:26,230 --> 00:43:29,469
S3: changed that format remarkably in all documentaries, actually. Really, you

967
00:43:29,469 --> 00:43:32,049
S3: think about the ones that was the Australian one that

968
00:43:32,050 --> 00:43:34,690
S3: was huge overseas, about the town where one person died.

969
00:43:35,080 --> 00:43:36,070
S2: I lost in llama.

970
00:43:36,070 --> 00:43:39,520
S3: Llama was essentially a reality TV show of pieced together footage,

971
00:43:39,520 --> 00:43:42,219
S3: or it was structured like that. So, um, yeah, I

972
00:43:42,219 --> 00:43:44,050
S3: think that is an interesting development.

973
00:43:44,930 --> 00:43:46,790
S1: For all of this, said Mel. You're going to go

974
00:43:46,790 --> 00:43:49,250
S1: and just keep mainlining MAFs for the rest of the season,

975
00:43:49,250 --> 00:43:49,670
S1: aren't you?

976
00:43:51,260 --> 00:43:54,110
S2: I think the worst thing is, like, we discussed this

977
00:43:54,110 --> 00:43:55,730
S2: when we were both kind of getting into it. Like

978
00:43:55,730 --> 00:43:58,279
S2: I watched the first episode out of curiosity, but then

979
00:43:58,280 --> 00:44:00,050
S2: I got I was very sucked into last year, and

980
00:44:00,050 --> 00:44:02,270
S2: I know how much time it takes, like Out of

981
00:44:02,270 --> 00:44:04,250
S2: Your life because it's on, like, I don't know, eight

982
00:44:04,250 --> 00:44:06,140
S2: nights a week or whatever. And so like this year

983
00:44:06,140 --> 00:44:07,760
S2: we were like, ah, I won't like I'll just watch

984
00:44:07,760 --> 00:44:10,160
S2: the first episode, but then like, I won't commit myself

985
00:44:10,160 --> 00:44:11,930
S2: because I won't be able to watch other stuff. And

986
00:44:11,930 --> 00:44:14,239
S2: then here we are like week two. I haven't missed

987
00:44:14,239 --> 00:44:15,170
S2: a single episode.

988
00:44:15,200 --> 00:44:17,359
S3: Yeah, it's like a huge time commitment, isn't it?

989
00:44:17,390 --> 00:44:19,430
S2: I know, and I'm already like the episodes on. And

990
00:44:19,430 --> 00:44:20,930
S2: then I immediately go to like, you know, I go

991
00:44:20,930 --> 00:44:22,880
S2: to so Dramatic the Instagram page to see like all

992
00:44:22,880 --> 00:44:24,260
S2: the shit she's talking about them. And then I go

993
00:44:24,260 --> 00:44:26,810
S2: and look up each person's Instagram page like it's just

994
00:44:26,810 --> 00:44:27,710
S2: so like, don't.

995
00:44:27,710 --> 00:44:30,560
S1: Shout out the so Dramatic Instagram page and podcast on

996
00:44:30,560 --> 00:44:32,120
S1: our show, Thomas. That's outrageous.

997
00:44:32,120 --> 00:44:33,259
S2: Well, that's what I do.

998
00:44:34,219 --> 00:44:38,660
S1: Let's move on to our Impress Your Friends recommendation segment.

999
00:44:38,660 --> 00:44:42,740
S1: We pick something that we're enjoying watching, reading, listening to,

1000
00:44:42,739 --> 00:44:47,030
S1: consuming at the moment. My one is it's a little

1001
00:44:47,030 --> 00:44:50,150
S1: bit of a basic recommendation, but I'm kind of surprised

1002
00:44:50,150 --> 00:44:52,280
S1: how few people in my life are watching it. And

1003
00:44:52,280 --> 00:44:54,319
S1: so I want to give it a really big plug.

1004
00:44:54,320 --> 00:44:58,880
S1: It is the 12th and allegedly final season of Curb

1005
00:44:58,880 --> 00:45:03,260
S1: Your Enthusiasm. I say allegedly because Larry David has famously

1006
00:45:03,260 --> 00:45:04,880
S1: said that he's not going to make the show anymore

1007
00:45:04,880 --> 00:45:06,859
S1: and he's come back, but he's getting pretty old now.

1008
00:45:06,860 --> 00:45:09,290
S1: I think he's in his mid to late 70s, and

1009
00:45:09,290 --> 00:45:12,500
S1: it feels like just the way that this show is

1010
00:45:12,500 --> 00:45:15,230
S1: structured and what it's building up to, that this is

1011
00:45:15,230 --> 00:45:18,230
S1: probably a farewell from our friend. If you're not familiar

1012
00:45:18,230 --> 00:45:22,430
S1: at all with Larry David, he's the co, uh, inventor,

1013
00:45:22,430 --> 00:45:24,859
S1: co-creator of Seinfeld and the writer of the show for

1014
00:45:24,860 --> 00:45:27,710
S1: a very, very long time. And this show is based

1015
00:45:27,710 --> 00:45:30,950
S1: on his like, I guess, like a heightened version of

1016
00:45:30,950 --> 00:45:33,830
S1: the reality that he occupies living in Hollywood and has

1017
00:45:33,830 --> 00:45:35,510
S1: a lot of famous people who pop up in it.

1018
00:45:35,510 --> 00:45:37,610
S1: It's the 12th season of the show, but it's actually

1019
00:45:37,610 --> 00:45:41,180
S1: been on air for 25 years. The first season debuted

1020
00:45:41,180 --> 00:45:44,150
S1: in like 2000. It's had a big hiatus. This is

1021
00:45:44,150 --> 00:45:46,190
S1: like the funniest show on TV, I think. Like it

1022
00:45:46,190 --> 00:45:49,310
S1: always is when it's on. This new season is amazing.

1023
00:45:49,310 --> 00:45:53,450
S1: Like the first episode has Larry traveling to Atlanta to

1024
00:45:53,480 --> 00:45:56,630
S1: to attend a party for a quote unquote black billionaire.

1025
00:45:56,630 --> 00:46:00,830
S1: So he brings his black housemate, Leon, the black billionaire

1026
00:46:00,860 --> 00:46:03,920
S1: turns out to be a South African guy, not an

1027
00:46:03,920 --> 00:46:08,540
S1: African guy. Um, and just chaos and drama ensues. And

1028
00:46:08,540 --> 00:46:11,600
S1: it's getting a little bit political now as well. I

1029
00:46:11,600 --> 00:46:13,430
S1: just feel like this is building to something that is

1030
00:46:13,430 --> 00:46:16,489
S1: gonna maybe like almost Nathan Fielder, the curse style, just

1031
00:46:16,489 --> 00:46:19,819
S1: have people saying, whoa, what? What the fuck did I

1032
00:46:19,820 --> 00:46:22,640
S1: just watch? It's on binge. It's an HBO show. It's

1033
00:46:22,640 --> 00:46:25,580
S1: on binge in Australia. Could not recommend this one more.

1034
00:46:25,580 --> 00:46:27,500
S3: I'm so excited to watch this. I love all of

1035
00:46:27,500 --> 00:46:30,259
S3: Larry David. And I think curb goes in to kind

1036
00:46:30,260 --> 00:46:34,700
S3: of race, gender, all kinds of things in a daring

1037
00:46:34,700 --> 00:46:37,400
S3: but interesting way, holding them up for critique. I was interested, though,

1038
00:46:37,400 --> 00:46:39,589
S3: because a big point of curb or for the last

1039
00:46:39,590 --> 00:46:43,040
S3: few seasons has been like the fatwa against Salman Rushdie,

1040
00:46:43,040 --> 00:46:46,370
S3: and Salman Rushdie has actually appeared in the show a

1041
00:46:46,370 --> 00:46:49,070
S3: few times. So I was wondering if the final season

1042
00:46:49,070 --> 00:46:52,879
S3: might mine might dabble in that post. What happened to

1043
00:46:52,880 --> 00:46:53,600
S3: to Rushdie?

1044
00:46:53,600 --> 00:46:56,000
S1: There is there was a theory doing the rounds that

1045
00:46:56,000 --> 00:46:58,760
S1: because Larry, without giving too much away, he's sort of

1046
00:46:58,760 --> 00:47:01,549
S1: like going through a court process at the moment in

1047
00:47:01,550 --> 00:47:05,690
S1: the show. And the Seinfeld finale famously featured the return

1048
00:47:05,690 --> 00:47:10,130
S1: of basically every character they'd interacted with, giving evidence about

1049
00:47:10,130 --> 00:47:12,770
S1: how that terrible people. I think it would be amazing

1050
00:47:12,770 --> 00:47:14,750
S1: if Larry just did that again. He's like, I don't

1051
00:47:14,750 --> 00:47:15,830
S1: know how to end the show I did. I came

1052
00:47:15,830 --> 00:47:17,660
S1: up with a great idea. Once we're doing it and

1053
00:47:17,660 --> 00:47:20,780
S1: it's Salman Rushdie, it's every single person who has appeared

1054
00:47:20,780 --> 00:47:23,270
S1: on the show. And and they're just talking about how

1055
00:47:23,270 --> 00:47:24,680
S1: terrible human being he is. Well, I.

1056
00:47:24,680 --> 00:47:26,719
S2: Wondered about that, though, because obviously the Seinfeld finale was

1057
00:47:26,810 --> 00:47:28,940
S2: pretty polarizing in terms of whether or not people think

1058
00:47:28,940 --> 00:47:32,360
S2: it was a good finale. Lots of people don't. And like,

1059
00:47:32,360 --> 00:47:34,640
S2: will they talk about that in the final season of curb? Like,

1060
00:47:34,640 --> 00:47:36,680
S2: does he reference it a lot? Yeah. Perfect.

1061
00:47:36,680 --> 00:47:40,130
S1: Yeah, yeah. Um, yeah, that's my one. Uh, Thomas, what

1062
00:47:40,130 --> 00:47:40,700
S1: have you got?

1063
00:47:40,700 --> 00:47:43,730
S2: Yeah, I actually have a show in a similar vibe

1064
00:47:43,730 --> 00:47:46,520
S2: to Curb Your Enthusiasm. Uh, this is the Vince Staple show.

1065
00:47:46,520 --> 00:47:50,540
S2: It's actually out today on Netflix in Australia. And so, like,

1066
00:47:50,540 --> 00:47:52,340
S2: for those of you who don't know, like, let's say Mel,

1067
00:47:52,340 --> 00:47:53,630
S2: Vince Staples is a rapper.

1068
00:47:54,020 --> 00:47:54,529
S5: Thank you.

1069
00:47:54,680 --> 00:47:56,839
S2: Um, he's he's a rapper, but he's always been kind

1070
00:47:56,840 --> 00:47:59,690
S2: of like, I guess more than that. He's very popular online.

1071
00:47:59,840 --> 00:48:01,430
S2: He's got this kind of like really relaxed.

1072
00:48:01,580 --> 00:48:03,020
S1: He's not just a rapper. I mean, his album Big

1073
00:48:03,020 --> 00:48:04,670
S1: Fish Theory, I think is one of the best rap

1074
00:48:04,670 --> 00:48:05,810
S1: albums of the past ten years.

1075
00:48:05,810 --> 00:48:06,200
S5: Yeah. But he's.

1076
00:48:06,650 --> 00:48:07,819
S2: You know, I mean, he's kind of like a rap

1077
00:48:07,820 --> 00:48:10,879
S2: personality and creator and he's very he's almost like he

1078
00:48:10,880 --> 00:48:13,759
S2: often talks about how he grew up loving TV and comedy,

1079
00:48:13,760 --> 00:48:17,180
S2: like more than rap. Um, and this show, it's almost

1080
00:48:17,180 --> 00:48:21,170
S2: like a blend of Curb and Bupkis, which I talked about,

1081
00:48:21,170 --> 00:48:22,879
S2: you know, the other day, which is, you know, Pete

1082
00:48:22,880 --> 00:48:27,020
S2: Davidson's version of a heightened version of himself, uh, entourage maybe,

1083
00:48:27,020 --> 00:48:29,000
S2: and probably the one I would compare it most to

1084
00:48:29,030 --> 00:48:32,209
S2: is Atlanta. So it's basically like Vince Staples, like living

1085
00:48:32,210 --> 00:48:35,239
S2: his everyday life as a kind of rich, kind of famous,

1086
00:48:35,239 --> 00:48:37,940
S2: like kind of well-known rapper, you know, in the game

1087
00:48:37,940 --> 00:48:40,250
S2: and just kind of like the things that happened to him.

1088
00:48:40,250 --> 00:48:42,739
S2: But he's so funny and he's kind of like so

1089
00:48:42,739 --> 00:48:45,950
S2: laid back. He's almost horizontal. Vibe is very funny to watch.

1090
00:48:45,950 --> 00:48:48,200
S2: And there are the usual kind of like celebrity cameos

1091
00:48:48,200 --> 00:48:50,450
S2: and stuff, like Rick Ross pops up in it. But

1092
00:48:50,450 --> 00:48:53,090
S2: I just thought, you know, it's got like this really

1093
00:48:53,090 --> 00:48:56,540
S2: particular tone to it that is very Kirby esque. And

1094
00:48:56,540 --> 00:48:58,580
S2: he's a bit of a talent. I think Vince Staples

1095
00:48:58,580 --> 00:49:00,589
S2: and someone that we should definitely keep an eye on.

1096
00:49:00,590 --> 00:49:02,750
S2: So yeah, that's my one. That's Vince Staple Show and

1097
00:49:02,750 --> 00:49:04,010
S2: that's on Netflix today.

1098
00:49:04,040 --> 00:49:05,930
S3: Sounds like it's got a bit of a day vibe

1099
00:49:05,930 --> 00:49:07,670
S3: the show keeps telling you to watch.

1100
00:49:07,670 --> 00:49:08,420
S5: Yes. Correct.

1101
00:49:08,960 --> 00:49:11,029
S1: Yeah, it sounds great. I hadn't really paid heaps of

1102
00:49:11,030 --> 00:49:14,120
S1: attention to it, but I'm very hot now. Mel, Mel.

1103
00:49:14,360 --> 00:49:17,480
S1: Randy's out. What have you got for impressing our friends?

1104
00:49:17,480 --> 00:49:19,730
S3: Surely. Mustard dogs? Surely it's got to be mustard.

1105
00:49:19,730 --> 00:49:21,260
S5: Dogs not to.

1106
00:49:21,260 --> 00:49:21,890
S2: Let your friend.

1107
00:49:22,070 --> 00:49:25,610
S3: Yeah, well, I'm gonna impress. I'm gonna help you impress

1108
00:49:25,610 --> 00:49:29,000
S3: your friends with a book called Just Friends, which is

1109
00:49:29,000 --> 00:49:32,390
S3: by our colleague here. I think I've got a few.

1110
00:49:32,390 --> 00:49:38,510
S3: I've had a few moments of quiet, like, quite good stuff. Yeah. Um,

1111
00:49:38,510 --> 00:49:41,810
S3: it's called Just Friends. It's by Jan Yankovic. Um, she

1112
00:49:41,810 --> 00:49:44,090
S3: is our colleague here at The Age and the Sydney

1113
00:49:44,090 --> 00:49:45,920
S3: Morning Herald. She's lifestyle editor.

1114
00:49:45,920 --> 00:49:46,609
S5: And this wonderful.

1115
00:49:46,610 --> 00:49:49,280
S1: Colleague, a wonderful person in our professional lives.

1116
00:49:49,280 --> 00:49:50,719
S2: Anytime fun guy. Yeah, all.

1117
00:49:50,719 --> 00:49:51,770
S5: Time fun gal, lunch.

1118
00:49:51,770 --> 00:49:55,130
S3: Pal. And it's just such a delicious read. It's so nice.

1119
00:49:55,130 --> 00:49:58,370
S3: It's all about friendships, the different types, the role they

1120
00:49:58,370 --> 00:50:00,469
S3: play in our lives, how we make friends, how we

1121
00:50:00,469 --> 00:50:02,510
S3: keep them. And, you know, I thought one of the

1122
00:50:02,540 --> 00:50:04,130
S3: one of the things I really liked, one of the

1123
00:50:04,130 --> 00:50:06,710
S3: chapters in this book, looked at how, like sometimes you

1124
00:50:06,710 --> 00:50:09,049
S3: think of friendship in a really narrow way, like the

1125
00:50:09,050 --> 00:50:11,450
S3: kind of deep and meaningful friend that you have the

1126
00:50:11,450 --> 00:50:14,930
S3: intense conversations with. But, um, Gian makes the point that,

1127
00:50:14,930 --> 00:50:18,560
S3: you know, all kinds of friendships hold value and are worthy, like,

1128
00:50:18,560 --> 00:50:20,300
S3: you know, the person that you maybe only catch up

1129
00:50:20,300 --> 00:50:22,580
S3: with once a month can be just as important as

1130
00:50:22,580 --> 00:50:24,830
S3: the work friend who you have lunch with every day

1131
00:50:24,830 --> 00:50:27,200
S3: as the long time friend who you have those deep

1132
00:50:27,200 --> 00:50:29,780
S3: and meaningful conversations with. So it really did kind of

1133
00:50:29,780 --> 00:50:32,840
S3: make me think about friendship differently and kind of value

1134
00:50:32,840 --> 00:50:35,600
S3: all the friendships you have. And, uh, particularly you guys,

1135
00:50:35,600 --> 00:50:36,290
S3: of course.

1136
00:50:36,860 --> 00:50:38,359
S5: Oh, I love that. That's very.

1137
00:50:38,390 --> 00:50:41,060
S1: Great plug. I think that the three of us are

1138
00:50:41,060 --> 00:50:44,390
S1: more than just friends, but maybe Gian would say that

1139
00:50:44,390 --> 00:50:47,570
S1: that's bad. And actually all kinds of friendships are, you know, equal.

1140
00:50:47,570 --> 00:50:49,670
S1: And we don't have to have different hierarchies for the

1141
00:50:49,670 --> 00:50:51,770
S1: way that we interact with one another. Anyway, that's a

1142
00:50:51,770 --> 00:50:54,080
S1: great recommendation. I'll I'll deal with that with my therapist.

1143
00:50:54,140 --> 00:50:55,520
S5: Uh, I have read.

1144
00:50:55,520 --> 00:50:57,830
S2: The book and I loved it. It was, um, yes, very,

1145
00:50:57,830 --> 00:50:59,239
S2: very smart read. And I think friendship is one of

1146
00:50:59,239 --> 00:51:01,430
S2: those topics that is like kind of in vogue and

1147
00:51:01,430 --> 00:51:03,590
S2: could have been handled like in a particular way that

1148
00:51:03,590 --> 00:51:05,900
S2: was like, but this is great and it's very smart.

1149
00:51:05,900 --> 00:51:07,730
S2: So yeah, great book, great recommendation.

1150
00:51:07,730 --> 00:51:07,969
S5: Yeah.

1151
00:51:07,969 --> 00:51:10,790
S3: And we've we've definitely submitted that friendship. Yeah.

1152
00:51:12,290 --> 00:51:15,770
S1: Guys that was um that was a great conversation about

1153
00:51:15,950 --> 00:51:19,969
S1: Sony Pictures is madam. Well uh thanks thanks thanks.

1154
00:51:20,120 --> 00:51:21,410
S5: That would be a good that would be a good.

1155
00:51:21,410 --> 00:51:23,300
S2: Night out for a few great friends.

1156
00:51:23,960 --> 00:51:25,670
S5: Yeah. Me, Sydney and Dakota.

1157
00:51:26,960 --> 00:51:29,330
S1: Uh, Thomas and Mel. Thank you guys so much.

1158
00:51:29,330 --> 00:51:30,169
S5: Thank you, thank you.

1159
00:51:36,810 --> 00:51:40,170
S1: This episode of The Drop was produced by Margaret Gordon.

1160
00:51:40,200 --> 00:51:42,870
S1: If you enjoyed listening to today's episode of The Drop,

1161
00:51:42,870 --> 00:51:45,719
S1: make sure to follow us in your favorite podcast app.

1162
00:51:45,719 --> 00:51:48,180
S1: Leave us a review or better yet, share it with

1163
00:51:48,180 --> 00:51:50,279
S1: a friend! I'm Osman Farooqui.

1164
00:51:50,310 --> 00:51:51,330
UU: See you next week!