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S1: Hey, I'm Osman Farooqui and this is The Drop, a

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S1: culture show from the Sydney Morning Herald and The Age,

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S1: where we dive into the latest in the world of

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S1: pop culture and entertainment. I'm here with Milk Embry and

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S1: Thomas Mitchell. What's up, gang? How are we doing?

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S2: Pretty good. Yeah. Nice to be back. Lots of sports happening.

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S3: You know who else is back Watching the Chiefs. Taylor Swift.

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S2: Yeah, I was waiting for it last week.

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S3: We thought it was all maybe a big genius PR stunt.

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S3: We might be wrong. She was back on the weekend.

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S3: I mean, I don't know.

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S2: If two weeks in a row doesn't make it appear.

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S3: She had a whole squad there. Interestingly, Blake Lively was there.

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S3: Sophie Turner, gal pal she's been hanging out with, and

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S3: most excitingly, Hugh Jackman. Yeah, the.

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S2: Box of Broken Hearts.

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S3: Yeah, he was there.

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S1: And not part of the girl gang. But also watching

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S1: that game was a very own. Kendall from succession, I

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S1: should say. Jeremy Strong, not Kendall Jenner. Jeremy Strong who

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S1: played Kendall on succession.

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S2: Did you say the tweet from the Jets? It was

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S2: like the eldest boy has arrived, so thought it was great.

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S2: Even the social media is such an important part of

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S2: the NFL now.

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S1: Yeah, I guess I'm still not totally clear. Look, firstly,

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S1: we should say we're not going to spend the whole

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S1: episode talking about this again, but we did spend a

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S1: lot of time talking about it last week, and I

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S1: think a few of us, including me, made the inaccurate

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S1: prediction that she would not ruck up again. A lot

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S1: of fans were quite distressed because the camera, I think,

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S1: on the broadcast cut to Taylor 17 times during the

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S1: game which fans of the game didn't like, but it

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S1: seemed to also be the most watched NFL game so

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S1: far this season. So clearly is like paying off in

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S1: dividends for the code.

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S2: Yeah, I mean it seems to be doing exactly what

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S2: they intended I think. Yeah. Specifically I said last week,

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S2: oh there's no way she'll be there two weeks in

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S2: a row. And lo and behold, Taylor, prove me wrong again.

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S2: But yeah, I mean, it was, it was a great

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S2: spectacle and just such a strange crowd, like having Serena

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S2: van der Woodsen and then, like Hugh Jackman.

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S1: But I guess her partner, Blake Lively's partner, Ryan Reynolds,

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S1: was the Hugh Jackman link. That's what one story I read.

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S2: But it did feel like it was like Ryan Reynolds

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S2: texted Taylor to be like, Hey, my mate Hugh is

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S2: going through a rough time. Can you come to the football? Yeah.

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S3: And she's like, I've got a gal. Sophie Yeah, she

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S3: needs a bit of a company.

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S2: The thing that I was like really curious about in

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S2: all the photos, who was like the other guy, wasn't it?

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S1: Anthony from.

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S2: Queer Eye? No, I know who him. There was like

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S2: one other guy and he looked like, vaguely famous and

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S2: he was in all the photos. So if anyone knows

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S2: who it is, please.

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S1: Well, the other thing on the Sophie Turner thing that

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S1: I missed, I think we talked about the dinner that

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S1: they went out with and apparently they went out for

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S1: dinner three times in a row that week. I've never

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S1: gone for dinner with anyone three times in a row.

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S1: That's bye bye. Dinner three. What are you talking about?

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S3: Yeah, that sounds very stressful, that situation to me. Also,

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S3: I think Sophie Turner was staying at Taylor's New York

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S3: apartment for a period as well.

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S1: And if you believe some of the tabloids, I believe

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S1: page six, so was Travis Kelce. He was photographed leaving

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S1: the house in Taylor's black Range Rover. So, you know,

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S1: maybe he needed a couch to stay on in. New

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S1: York was there for the Jets game. But this thing

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S1: does seem to be more substantive than it felt when

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S1: we talked about it last week.

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S2: And I think what's crazy is it's just insane what

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S2: happens when you get a major sporting star and a

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S2: huge pop star and they come together in a highly

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S2: public relationship and it's almost like you could make a

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S2: documentary about this.

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S1: Well, that's I mean, that is one of the best

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S1: segue ways we've had, frankly, on the show.

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S2: So I am the Mahomes to your Travis Kelce again.

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S1: So there are two things we're going to be covering

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S1: on the show today. Later on in the episode, we're

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S1: going to talk about one of the hidden TV gems

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S1: in streaming. Right now. It's a British heist show called

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S1: The Gold. And I think it's actually one of the

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S1: best things that's been released in the second half of

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S1: the year. We're going to get into why it's so

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S1: good and why I think we need more shows like it.

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S1: But first, and this is where Thomas's incredible segue comes

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S1: in handy, we're living in a golden age of sports

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S1: documentaries it feels right now, and a lot of that

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S1: is specifically down to Netflix Drive to Survive, which is

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S1: a series credited with taking Formula One. Mainstream debuted in 2019.

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S1: Then the next year in 2020, we saw the iconic

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S1: Michael Jordan series, The Last Dance, which we all watched

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S1: in lockdown because we had nothing else to do. But

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S1: turns out it was actually pretty good. Since then, we've

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S1: had cheer about cheerleading the golf series full Swing, the

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S1: tennis focused show Break Point, Last Chance You had basketball,

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S1: all of those Netflix shows in Australia. Amazon gave us

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S1: the really incredible cricket series, The Test. And I think

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S1: what's interesting about all of these kind of like current

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S1: generation sports tacos is that they're made in partnership with

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S1: the key figures the documentaries are about, and in some

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S1: cases they're made in partnership with the actual sporting codes themselves.

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S1: So the subjects of the doc goes aren't just characters

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S1: in a story, they're actually shaping the way the story

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S1: is told, which I think does impact the objectivity of

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S1: the documentaries, even if it makes it more entertaining. By

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S1: delivering a lot more access. The latest in this kind

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S1: of model is Beckham, which is out on Netflix today.

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S1: It focuses, unsurprisingly, on David Beckham's life, his sporting career

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S1: and his relationship to Victoria Beckham, aka Posh Spice. Mel,

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S1: you were extremely excited about this documentary and apparently this

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S1: podcast is now kind of just what you care about.

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S1: It's like four weeks in a row. Can you talk

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S1: to us about why you were getting hype for a

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S1: Beckham documentary?

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S3: I was extremely excited. And I think I think my

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S3: my choice has kind of reaped rewards because I know

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S3: you both enjoyed this as well.

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S2: Don't project onto me.

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S3: But as us just talking about Jeremy Strong, you know,

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S3: our excitement at seeing him at the Chiefs game showed

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S3: we've never really felt that succession sized hole in our heart.

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S3: So I was really excited that this documentary is directed

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S3: by Fisher Stevens, who, of course, we know as the

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S3: comms manager for Waystar. Hugo Baker of Woof Woof fame,

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S3: Best line on TV of all time. Now, before he

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S3: kind of became a hack for for big media on TV,

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S3: he was actually quite well known as a documentary maker.

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S3: He won an Academy Award for The Cove in 2010,

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S3: which he produced. That's about dolphin hunting practices in Japan.

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S3: And he rode with Leonardo DiCaprio on a doco about

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S3: climate change in 2016 called Before the Flood. He also

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S3: produced Tiger King in 2020, which really did kick off

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S3: this kind of surge of documentaries.

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S1: Hugo Really working.

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S4: Overtime. Yeah.

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S2: I love hearing about what Mel knows.

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S3: I just thought. I just thought he looked good in, like,

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S3: a scarf. But no, he's been a busy man, so

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S3: I was very excited when I saw he was behind this.

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S3: And then I read that Leonardo DiCaprio actually was the

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S3: one that encouraged him to do it. Leo and Beckham also.

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S3: Leo seems to be making quite a lot of cameos

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S3: on our pods lately. I mean, we love that, which

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S3: is going to continue next week too. Yeah. Anyway, Leo

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S3: is friends with David Beckham, apparently said to Fisher Stevens,

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S3: You should do this documentary. And then Fisher jumped on board.

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S3: So it's pretty excited about that. I also knew he

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S3: had pretty unprecedented access to Beckham, which, as you mentioned,

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S3: Beckham was obviously supportive of this documentary.

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S4: Yeah, we'll get into.

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S1: The kind of the complexity of that, I reckon, a

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S1: bit later.

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S4: Yeah, Yeah.

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S3: And then overall, like Posh and Becks, that was royalty

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S3: for the age of celebrity, like their story, the mythmaking

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S3: around this story, it's not just about a man. It's

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S3: not just about a sport. It's about a culture and

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S3: a nation. Wow, that was quite rousing, wasn't it?

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S2: Have you just accidentally roused yourself? Yeah.

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S3: So I think there was a lot, a lot, a

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S3: lot that got me interested in this documentary. Yeah.

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S1: I mean. I mean that you describing all that as

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S1: partly what I got excited about as well. And then

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S1: watching and I was like, Oh, there's actually something really

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S1: interesting here, not just about the story of David Beckham

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S1: and his sports career, but the way I think we

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S1: tell these stories on screen. But before we get into

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S1: the the documentary itself, I want to ask you guys

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S1: whether you had a pre-existing relationship with David Beckham. Like

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S1: when you were kids, did you consider yourselves quite knowledgeable

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S1: about David Beckham before sitting down to watch this doco?

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S2: I would say I would have quite an intense pre-existing

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S2: relationship with David Beckham. Yeah, as you both know, I'm

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S2: a big David Beckham fan. I'm a Manchester United fan

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S2: from the day I was born.

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S3: I'm so sorry about that.

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S2: Yeah, had a tough time, actually. Day of recording. We've

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S2: just lost our latest Champions League match. But yeah, like

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S2: Manchester United fans since the day I was born. My

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S2: dad's a fan and. And Beckham was very much the

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S2: era that I grew up watching. Um, you know, I

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S2: have a David Beckham jersey from every kind of iteration

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S2: of Man United that he was at and also Real Madrid.

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S2: I kind of stopped once he got to the Galaxy

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S2: because I got to that weird age where buying jerseys

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S2: isn't cool anymore and.

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S1: Now it's cool again.

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S2: I know now it's cool again, but you can't be

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S2: like 17 anyway. But yeah, so I really am a

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S2: big David Beckham fan. I like I read every biography,

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S2: every Alex Ferguson biography, and I think like being a

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S2: young kid and being really into football, especially in Australia,

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S2: where like the dominant codes, obviously AFL and NRL like

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S2: it was so weird to have a footballer who was

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S2: like everyone else knew, you know, like it wasn't just

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S2: other kids into soccer that knew who David Beckham was

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S2: like everyone knew who Beckham was. And yeah, like my

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S2: my favorite number is seven because of David Beckham. So yeah,

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S2: I was I'm deeply invested in the Beckham story. So

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S2: the minute this documentary was discussed, I was always, always

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S2: going to watch it. And yeah, it's it's certainly an

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S2: interesting chapter in the long list of things that have

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S2: been like written and made about David Beckham.

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S3: Firstly, as an aside, I love that you have a

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S3: favorite number that you've sat down, you've thought about it

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S3: and you've decided.

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S4: Well, this is your favourite number.

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S1: Weird thing is my favorite number is also seven because

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S1: of David Beckham as well. And I don't even think

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S1: I had the same kind of like obsessive relationship to Thomas.

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S1: My kind of entree into Beckham was I don't think

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S1: I'd watched a Premier League game until I was like

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S1: 15 or 16, but kind of like, you know, I

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S1: think we've talked about this before when Michael Jordan and

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S1: the Chicago Bulls were such a thing. I had like

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S1: a Bulls jersey when I was 4 or 5 years old.

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S1: I don't think my parents knew what the Chicago Bulls were. I.

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S1: Never seen a game, but they're just permeated pop culture

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00:10:09,730 --> 00:10:12,730
S1: that this was a cool thing and Beckham was like that.

226
00:10:12,730 --> 00:10:15,429
S1: I think the first knowledge I had of him was

227
00:10:15,429 --> 00:10:17,829
S1: through friends at school who maybe watched some games and

228
00:10:17,830 --> 00:10:21,099
S1: then FIFA 96, the computer game and kind of became

229
00:10:21,100 --> 00:10:24,340
S1: a fan of soccer through that. Then obviously like a

230
00:10:24,340 --> 00:10:26,800
S1: couple of movies, like obviously Bend it like Beckham is

231
00:10:26,800 --> 00:10:29,380
S1: a is a big cultural like moment for a lot

232
00:10:29,380 --> 00:10:31,810
S1: of us, particularly in my life. And then even like

233
00:10:31,809 --> 00:10:34,479
S1: love actually a few years later where Hugh Grant's prime

234
00:10:34,480 --> 00:10:37,150
S1: minister gives a speech where he talks about David Beckham's

235
00:10:37,150 --> 00:10:41,500
S1: like left foot. So Beckham was just this cultural icon

236
00:10:41,500 --> 00:10:43,660
S1: that that I still kind of looked up to.

237
00:10:44,170 --> 00:10:45,940
S2: I'm surprised that not everyone has a favorite number.

238
00:10:45,940 --> 00:10:46,689
S1: Did you not?

239
00:10:46,690 --> 00:10:48,310
S3: I don't know. How often do you deploy it?

240
00:10:48,910 --> 00:10:49,990
S1: Oh, my password's.

241
00:10:50,290 --> 00:10:52,610
S4: Just seven, seven, seven. David Beckham, seven seven.

242
00:10:52,630 --> 00:10:53,290
S2: It's always.

243
00:10:53,290 --> 00:10:54,280
S4: I just.

244
00:10:54,280 --> 00:10:56,740
S2: I up until like two minutes ago, I lived in

245
00:10:56,740 --> 00:10:58,510
S2: a world where I assumed everyone had a favorite number.

246
00:10:58,510 --> 00:10:59,460
S2: Do you have a favorite color?

247
00:10:59,470 --> 00:11:00,579
S4: Yeah. Blue. Yeah.

248
00:11:01,000 --> 00:11:01,690
S1: Mine's red.

249
00:11:01,960 --> 00:11:02,860
S3: Okay. I need to.

250
00:11:02,860 --> 00:11:04,270
S4: I need to spend.

251
00:11:04,270 --> 00:11:07,329
S3: Some time on this for me, it was, as I

252
00:11:07,330 --> 00:11:10,120
S3: mentioned last week, I've only gotten into the Premier League

253
00:11:10,120 --> 00:11:12,610
S3: this year and David Beckham is not so relevant in

254
00:11:12,610 --> 00:11:15,579
S3: the in the UK scene anymore. But obviously he's a

255
00:11:15,580 --> 00:11:18,400
S3: history looms large over it. But when I was a

256
00:11:18,400 --> 00:11:21,070
S3: kid and during the period that this documentary covers, it

257
00:11:21,070 --> 00:11:23,500
S3: was posh as well and Beckham was just in it.

258
00:11:23,530 --> 00:11:25,839
S3: It was Spice Girls mania for me. We were going

259
00:11:25,840 --> 00:11:28,240
S3: to parties dressing up as our favorite Spice Girls. We

260
00:11:28,240 --> 00:11:30,069
S3: were going on the spice bars.

261
00:11:30,610 --> 00:11:31,300
S4: Who did you dress up?

262
00:11:31,330 --> 00:11:33,160
S3: I actually like Sporty Spice, I think because she had

263
00:11:33,160 --> 00:11:35,860
S3: my Mel was her name. Yes. I like the two vibes.

264
00:11:36,100 --> 00:11:37,240
S3: There is two males.

265
00:11:37,240 --> 00:11:39,260
S4: But you're not very scary. Yeah, I think that.

266
00:11:39,280 --> 00:11:40,240
S3: Well, can be.

267
00:11:40,240 --> 00:11:43,480
S1: But let's not get into the politics of the only

268
00:11:43,480 --> 00:11:45,280
S1: Black Spice Girl being scary spice.

269
00:11:45,820 --> 00:11:47,079
S3: I did leave a pause.

270
00:11:47,080 --> 00:11:48,069
S4: There, and thank.

271
00:11:48,070 --> 00:11:51,040
S1: God Mel did not dress as a black woman in

272
00:11:51,040 --> 00:11:51,550
S1: her spice.

273
00:11:51,670 --> 00:11:52,450
S2: Oh, ironically, Fisher.

274
00:11:52,450 --> 00:11:54,760
S4: Stevens did famously do had a scandal.

275
00:11:54,850 --> 00:11:56,920
S1: Also Fisher Stevens playing an Indian guy back.

276
00:11:56,920 --> 00:11:57,760
S4: In the day. Yeah.

277
00:11:58,120 --> 00:12:02,050
S3: So yes, Beckham was always kind of posh husband, but

278
00:12:02,230 --> 00:12:03,910
S3: for me it was more about Posh though. I have

279
00:12:03,910 --> 00:12:07,720
S3: kind of enjoyed seeing their development and the Empire they

280
00:12:07,720 --> 00:12:10,840
S3: have built and their children are continuing to build today.

281
00:12:10,840 --> 00:12:13,809
S1: So when Geri Halliwell said that the Spice Girls were

282
00:12:13,809 --> 00:12:17,500
S1: thatcherites and Margaret Thatcher was the original Spice Girl, how

283
00:12:17,500 --> 00:12:18,940
S1: did you respond to that?

284
00:12:18,940 --> 00:12:22,240
S3: Mel Yeah, I thought at the time as a child

285
00:12:22,240 --> 00:12:26,110
S3: of 8 or 9 that, you know, they served a role.

286
00:12:26,110 --> 00:12:28,990
S3: It's complicated, but they served a role at a time

287
00:12:28,990 --> 00:12:32,679
S3: when there weren't many young women pop groups, and they

288
00:12:32,679 --> 00:12:36,010
S3: kind of did challenge the boyband scenario there. So I

289
00:12:36,010 --> 00:12:38,170
S3: think they kind of worked on some levels. But yes,

290
00:12:38,170 --> 00:12:40,000
S3: they were problematic on others.

291
00:12:40,780 --> 00:12:42,760
S4: It's a very, very good response.

292
00:12:43,410 --> 00:12:45,310
S1: I just sorry, I just throw you a total curveball

293
00:12:45,309 --> 00:12:47,949
S1: there and you handled it very well. Okay. So let's

294
00:12:47,950 --> 00:12:49,360
S1: talk about the actual documentary.

295
00:12:50,520 --> 00:12:53,190
S5: Tonight, we bring you the story of how David Beckham

296
00:12:54,870 --> 00:12:56,580
S5: became a global phenomenon.

297
00:13:03,179 --> 00:13:05,130
S6: I never really did well at school.

298
00:13:05,520 --> 00:13:07,770
S7: Because all I ever wanted to do was play football.

299
00:13:10,380 --> 00:13:13,920
S1: In some ways it's pretty conventional. It's a four part series.

300
00:13:13,920 --> 00:13:15,630
S1: It features a lot of talking heads and a lot

301
00:13:15,630 --> 00:13:18,780
S1: of archive footage. It starts at the start with David

302
00:13:18,780 --> 00:13:21,780
S1: Beckham as a child, and it finishes kind of where

303
00:13:21,780 --> 00:13:24,059
S1: we are now with David Beckham as the owner of

304
00:13:24,059 --> 00:13:26,579
S1: Inter Miami, a team that plays in the US National

305
00:13:26,580 --> 00:13:30,179
S1: Soccer League. So most of the talking is being done

306
00:13:30,179 --> 00:13:34,710
S1: by Beckham himself, his wife Victoria, his parents, former Man-u

307
00:13:34,710 --> 00:13:39,809
S1: manager Alex Ferguson, ex-players including Gary Neville and Eric Cantona,

308
00:13:39,809 --> 00:13:42,240
S1: who is one of my favorite football figures in all time,

309
00:13:42,240 --> 00:13:45,630
S1: the French philosopher. I think one of the smartest inclusions

310
00:13:45,630 --> 00:13:50,189
S1: is one of Beckham's key antagonists, the Argentinian player, Diego Simeone,

311
00:13:50,190 --> 00:13:55,170
S1: who Beckham famously or infamously kicked in the 1998 World Cup,

312
00:13:55,170 --> 00:13:59,910
S1: leading to a red card disqualification and contributing to England's

313
00:13:59,910 --> 00:14:04,020
S1: eventual loss in the game. This was, I thought, a

314
00:14:04,020 --> 00:14:07,050
S1: really fun documentary and two and a half parts out

315
00:14:07,050 --> 00:14:09,809
S1: of four through it. The archive footage is great. Like

316
00:14:09,809 --> 00:14:13,439
S1: David Beckham is so good at playing soccer and in

317
00:14:13,470 --> 00:14:15,360
S1: that way it's like the last dance. Just watching the

318
00:14:15,360 --> 00:14:18,570
S1: best athletes of all time score goals is really, really

319
00:14:18,570 --> 00:14:22,260
S1: cool and kind of putting a spin on things from

320
00:14:22,260 --> 00:14:23,910
S1: an era in which I was probably too young to

321
00:14:23,910 --> 00:14:27,270
S1: really understand what the deeper themes were of what was

322
00:14:27,270 --> 00:14:29,040
S1: going on. So I found it to be a really

323
00:14:29,040 --> 00:14:31,350
S1: fun and engaging watch. How about you guys?

324
00:14:31,800 --> 00:14:34,740
S2: Yeah, I think like, it's true. It is a I,

325
00:14:34,830 --> 00:14:36,390
S2: you know, sorry to use the show. It is a

326
00:14:36,390 --> 00:14:38,320
S2: free kick for a sports documentary when you can like

327
00:14:38,370 --> 00:14:40,740
S2: pad everything out with just great footage of people doing

328
00:14:40,740 --> 00:14:46,080
S2: amazing things. And yeah, especially as a fan and it

329
00:14:46,080 --> 00:14:47,730
S2: was almost hard as a Manchester United fan because it

330
00:14:47,730 --> 00:14:49,440
S2: was like taking me back to the glory days. And

331
00:14:49,440 --> 00:14:50,700
S2: so I was like, Oh God, it was so good

332
00:14:50,700 --> 00:14:54,570
S2: when we were good. But yeah, like it's amazing in

333
00:14:54,570 --> 00:14:58,500
S2: that way. And to see, you know, it's impossible not

334
00:14:58,500 --> 00:15:01,500
S2: to feel something when you see pictures of David Beckham,

335
00:15:01,500 --> 00:15:03,810
S2: like at five years old in a full Manchester United

336
00:15:03,810 --> 00:15:06,720
S2: kit and like when you get someone who has dreamed

337
00:15:06,720 --> 00:15:09,120
S2: their dream and lived it, it's, you know, it sucks

338
00:15:09,120 --> 00:15:11,730
S2: you in and it is it is a pretty crazy story. Like,

339
00:15:11,730 --> 00:15:14,430
S2: you know, he talks about his mum. She was a hairdresser, like,

340
00:15:14,430 --> 00:15:17,070
S2: you know, hairdressing from home. She's got four women like

341
00:15:17,070 --> 00:15:18,990
S2: sat there with foils in their hair and he's bringing

342
00:15:18,990 --> 00:15:20,790
S2: cups of tea. Like he wasn't like a rich kid

343
00:15:20,790 --> 00:15:22,630
S2: or anything. Like, you know, he worked hard and sure,

344
00:15:22,650 --> 00:15:24,390
S2: we'll get into it. But his dad was like a

345
00:15:24,390 --> 00:15:27,180
S2: bit crazy sports dad, like a bit of Michael Jordan

346
00:15:27,180 --> 00:15:31,890
S2: vibes there. So I think you. You mean the documentary

347
00:15:31,890 --> 00:15:34,229
S2: makes you root for Beckham and he's an easy enough

348
00:15:34,230 --> 00:15:37,290
S2: guy to root for. He's very likable. He's very charming.

349
00:15:37,290 --> 00:15:41,220
S2: And yeah, like I've seen all four parts now. I

350
00:15:41,220 --> 00:15:45,630
S2: think super slickly made like really, really well done. But

351
00:15:45,630 --> 00:15:48,180
S2: to me, it still feels a bit like a Wikipedia

352
00:15:48,180 --> 00:15:52,860
S2: entry documentary because it's very, very linear. But yeah, I mean,

353
00:15:52,860 --> 00:15:54,150
S2: I still really enjoyed it.

354
00:15:54,420 --> 00:15:57,600
S3: Yeah. I think speaking about kind of the archival footage

355
00:15:57,600 --> 00:15:59,880
S3: in the golden age of documentaries that we're in, I

356
00:15:59,880 --> 00:16:02,760
S3: actually think that is probably why we're seeing so many

357
00:16:02,760 --> 00:16:05,430
S3: documentaries being made about this period. Like you mentioned, The

358
00:16:05,430 --> 00:16:08,040
S3: Last Dance, which kind of covers similar time period. It's

359
00:16:08,040 --> 00:16:10,890
S3: because it makes for great TV. There's all this film footage,

360
00:16:10,890 --> 00:16:13,410
S3: there's all this video footage. The talking heads are all

361
00:16:13,410 --> 00:16:16,320
S3: still alive. But these stories are hitting a generation that

362
00:16:16,320 --> 00:16:18,360
S3: didn't live through it or were too young when they

363
00:16:18,360 --> 00:16:21,000
S3: lived through it to understand. So it's all there, just

364
00:16:21,000 --> 00:16:23,160
S3: waiting for a filmmaker to kind of shape it and

365
00:16:23,160 --> 00:16:25,020
S3: put it into order, which I think is why we're

366
00:16:25,020 --> 00:16:27,360
S3: seeing a surge, particularly looking at some of these old

367
00:16:27,360 --> 00:16:30,270
S3: school legends. There was a Shaq documentary as well on

368
00:16:30,270 --> 00:16:33,330
S3: Binge earlier this year, but I thought this documentary was

369
00:16:33,330 --> 00:16:36,110
S3: so fun. And the talking heads that you were talking about, Oz,

370
00:16:36,120 --> 00:16:39,840
S3: are incredible. Like, they just have everyone on this documentary

371
00:16:39,840 --> 00:16:42,090
S3: and a winter pops in. Obviously, there's a lot of

372
00:16:42,090 --> 00:16:45,990
S3: posh Mel C My favourite Spice Girl is on there.

373
00:16:45,990 --> 00:16:48,930
S3: Like the people that they speak to is so good.

374
00:16:48,930 --> 00:16:51,900
S3: And also they have some kooky talent as well. One

375
00:16:51,900 --> 00:16:54,360
S3: of my favorite kind of parts of the documentary is

376
00:16:54,360 --> 00:16:58,320
S3: they interview one of the long time secretaries of Manchester United.

377
00:16:58,350 --> 00:16:58,660
S3: She's great.

378
00:16:58,710 --> 00:16:59,730
S4: And when she popped.

379
00:16:59,730 --> 00:17:03,000
S1: Up was like secretary from 1968 to 2023.

380
00:17:03,210 --> 00:17:05,640
S4: But that's so long to do all the technology. She's

381
00:17:05,640 --> 00:17:06,450
S4: saying it.

382
00:17:06,450 --> 00:17:08,460
S3: Is so good. And I reckon this speaks to Fisher

383
00:17:08,460 --> 00:17:11,699
S3: Stevens kind of interest in absurdist humor. Like there she is,

384
00:17:11,700 --> 00:17:15,030
S3: she's inside. But it's obviously so cold in Manchester that

385
00:17:15,030 --> 00:17:17,400
S3: she's wearing this giant puffy coat and she has this

386
00:17:17,400 --> 00:17:20,010
S3: giant scarf around her neck and she's talking about David

387
00:17:20,010 --> 00:17:22,920
S3: Beckham getting sent knickers in the post and what she

388
00:17:22,920 --> 00:17:24,660
S3: did with them. And they also speak to the man

389
00:17:24,660 --> 00:17:27,389
S3: United Kitman. So as well, of these like really high

390
00:17:27,390 --> 00:17:30,570
S3: profile talent, you kind of have these eccentric figures that

391
00:17:30,570 --> 00:17:32,610
S3: are also essential to the team culture.

392
00:17:32,609 --> 00:17:34,980
S1: Yeah, you get the upstairs downstairs of it. Like there

393
00:17:34,980 --> 00:17:37,170
S1: are these two guys, these brothers who were the paparazzi

394
00:17:37,170 --> 00:17:39,540
S1: during this era who apparently were the first ones to

395
00:17:39,540 --> 00:17:43,560
S1: capture the Posh and Becks kind of photos of them

396
00:17:43,560 --> 00:17:47,340
S1: going out. And they're great characters in the show as well.

397
00:17:47,550 --> 00:17:50,340
S1: I think the other bit about the archive that is

398
00:17:50,340 --> 00:17:53,070
S1: really interesting is the Spice Girls side of things. Like

399
00:17:53,070 --> 00:17:55,020
S1: I'd never seen that footage. Maybe there are Spice Girls

400
00:17:55,320 --> 00:17:58,649
S1: that go into this, but seeing Posh and the girls

401
00:17:58,650 --> 00:18:01,440
S1: like watch David Beckham at the World Cup while they're

402
00:18:01,440 --> 00:18:04,110
S1: on tour in New York was also really cool.

403
00:18:04,109 --> 00:18:05,910
S2: Yeah, I thought the same thing and like they probably

404
00:18:05,910 --> 00:18:07,710
S2: is loads of Spice World documentary that I haven't seen

405
00:18:07,710 --> 00:18:10,110
S2: but what I. Thought it would be the most interesting thing.

406
00:18:10,109 --> 00:18:11,909
S2: And I guess this is why I found it strange

407
00:18:11,910 --> 00:18:13,710
S2: to watch as someone who probably knows the Beckham story

408
00:18:13,830 --> 00:18:16,859
S2: pretty well was like, I knew all the big beats

409
00:18:16,859 --> 00:18:18,390
S2: that were coming, like, you know, the World Cup and everything,

410
00:18:18,390 --> 00:18:20,490
S2: and we'll get into that. But I found that Spice

411
00:18:20,490 --> 00:18:22,800
S2: Girls stuff are interesting because it gives you a really

412
00:18:23,220 --> 00:18:27,270
S2: interesting insight into like the Pre-social media fame for both

413
00:18:27,270 --> 00:18:29,639
S2: of them. And, you know, like fame was still a

414
00:18:29,640 --> 00:18:32,730
S2: pretty awful thing. And, you know, Beckham experienced the absolute

415
00:18:32,730 --> 00:18:34,109
S2: worst side of it. But it was so it was

416
00:18:34,109 --> 00:18:37,050
S2: almost like wholesome watching the Spice Girls at the early era.

417
00:18:37,080 --> 00:18:40,530
S2: Like they're all like, again, similar to Beckham, these are

418
00:18:40,530 --> 00:18:42,300
S2: the people who, like came from not a lot and

419
00:18:42,300 --> 00:18:44,100
S2: their lives changed overnight. And they're like sitting in this

420
00:18:44,100 --> 00:18:45,900
S2: hotel room in New York, like kind of like five

421
00:18:45,900 --> 00:18:48,510
S2: bachelors from England, just like, so excited to watch like

422
00:18:48,510 --> 00:18:50,670
S2: one of the girlfriends boyfriend play at the World Cup.

423
00:18:50,670 --> 00:18:53,359
S2: And they're all like, go, David Yeah, you done it.

424
00:18:53,369 --> 00:18:55,530
S2: And so like it's, I don't know, like I thought

425
00:18:55,530 --> 00:18:57,780
S2: that stuff was really, really interesting and like quite wholesome.

426
00:18:57,780 --> 00:19:00,300
S3: And also onto that point about the kind of different

427
00:19:00,300 --> 00:19:02,790
S3: media landscape, how incredible was it like every time there

428
00:19:02,790 --> 00:19:05,700
S3: was a press call for something Posh or Becks were doing,

429
00:19:05,700 --> 00:19:09,899
S3: there were like 400 photographers there, which obviously speaks to

430
00:19:09,900 --> 00:19:12,959
S3: a media landscape when they had that many papers in

431
00:19:12,960 --> 00:19:15,720
S3: the UK. Like you just wouldn't see that many snappers

432
00:19:15,720 --> 00:19:16,800
S3: today at a press call.

433
00:19:16,800 --> 00:19:17,550
S4: I'm glad you've.

434
00:19:17,550 --> 00:19:20,520
S1: Brought that up because I found one of the most

435
00:19:20,520 --> 00:19:24,210
S1: interesting parts of it so far that the media angle

436
00:19:24,210 --> 00:19:26,490
S1: on it and that really kicks into gear when the

437
00:19:26,490 --> 00:19:29,730
S1: documentary focuses in on the criticism and the kind of

438
00:19:29,730 --> 00:19:34,740
S1: scorn Beckham experienced after that 1998 World Cup. The media barrage,

439
00:19:34,740 --> 00:19:37,470
S1: the the prime minister kind of weighing in. The the

440
00:19:37,470 --> 00:19:41,010
S1: English manager at the time blaming him for that red card,

441
00:19:41,010 --> 00:19:44,250
S1: tabloids saying that he was like the fail son of

442
00:19:44,250 --> 00:19:49,800
S1: English football. People were hanging effigies of him from like lampposts.

443
00:19:49,800 --> 00:19:52,320
S1: And a lot of this was fuelled by the media.

444
00:19:52,320 --> 00:19:55,350
S1: And then that media focus shifts very quickly to his

445
00:19:55,350 --> 00:19:59,340
S1: relationship with Victoria. She's you know, this is such a

446
00:19:59,340 --> 00:20:03,149
S1: classic trope. She's like blamed for ruining this great football player.

447
00:20:03,150 --> 00:20:06,090
S1: She then gets attacked for the way that she's raising

448
00:20:06,090 --> 00:20:09,090
S1: her family. The headlines about her being too posh to

449
00:20:09,090 --> 00:20:12,540
S1: push when it emerges that she had a C-section. A

450
00:20:12,540 --> 00:20:15,420
S1: lot of that part of the documentary reminded me of

451
00:20:15,420 --> 00:20:18,389
S1: the Britney Spears doco, like framing Britney in terms of

452
00:20:18,390 --> 00:20:21,330
S1: how we are now evaluating what was so obviously a

453
00:20:21,330 --> 00:20:25,109
S1: toxic tabloid media culture at the time. And I know, Thomas,

454
00:20:25,109 --> 00:20:27,869
S1: you said that it feels like a pre social media

455
00:20:27,869 --> 00:20:29,070
S1: age in a way. And I agree with what you

456
00:20:29,070 --> 00:20:31,620
S1: said there, but in other ways it reminded me that, like,

457
00:20:31,619 --> 00:20:34,109
S1: people have always been kind of crazy and kind of

458
00:20:34,109 --> 00:20:38,580
S1: fan obsessed. And the media has always played a sometimes

459
00:20:38,580 --> 00:20:42,540
S1: like toxic role in whipping up hysteria and using prominent

460
00:20:42,540 --> 00:20:46,320
S1: figures as punching bags. And I almost think that they

461
00:20:46,320 --> 00:20:48,210
S1: went a bit soft. Like this could have been a

462
00:20:48,210 --> 00:20:52,290
S1: documentary about how the tabloid media like hounded normal people

463
00:20:52,290 --> 00:20:54,149
S1: to like mental despair.

464
00:20:54,810 --> 00:20:56,820
S2: Yeah, I agree. And I think, you know, there are

465
00:20:56,820 --> 00:21:00,880
S2: definitely elements of this that. They don't go hard enough on.

466
00:21:00,950 --> 00:21:04,180
S2: You know. So to put into context, the 1998 World Cup.

467
00:21:04,359 --> 00:21:07,119
S2: England play Argentina in the quarter final. Beckham makes a

468
00:21:07,119 --> 00:21:09,400
S2: silly decision and kind of kicks his foot out at

469
00:21:09,400 --> 00:21:13,630
S2: Diego Simeone, who milks the penalty. Beckham gets sent off. Ultimately,

470
00:21:13,630 --> 00:21:15,520
S2: it doesn't really impact the outcome of the game. The

471
00:21:15,520 --> 00:21:17,350
S2: game goes all the way to extra time and penalties

472
00:21:17,350 --> 00:21:19,659
S2: and England lose on penalties. So they go out of

473
00:21:19,660 --> 00:21:22,960
S2: the World Cup. Beckham is then blamed for this because

474
00:21:23,290 --> 00:21:25,600
S2: he made the team play with a man down for like,

475
00:21:25,600 --> 00:21:28,480
S2: you know, 60% of the match and is basically like,

476
00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:31,850
S2: you know, persona non grata in England, public enemy number one.

477
00:21:31,869 --> 00:21:34,869
S2: But like News of the World, one of the biggest papers,

478
00:21:34,869 --> 00:21:39,220
S2: they run the headline, you know, Ten Brave Lions, One

479
00:21:39,220 --> 00:21:41,889
S2: Stupid Boy, I think it was. They run a full

480
00:21:41,890 --> 00:21:44,859
S2: page of his face on a dartboard to pull out

481
00:21:44,859 --> 00:21:48,060
S2: of the newspaper like. Like, it is crazy. And I think, like,

482
00:21:48,070 --> 00:21:50,320
S2: they talk about that and the viewer reaction to that is, oh,

483
00:21:50,320 --> 00:21:51,730
S2: my God, this is crazy. But like, you know, it

484
00:21:51,730 --> 00:21:53,440
S2: would have been great to hear from someone from News

485
00:21:53,440 --> 00:21:55,600
S2: of the World or anyone to like besides those two

486
00:21:55,600 --> 00:21:58,210
S2: brothers who perhaps you don't get like a good media

487
00:21:58,210 --> 00:22:00,400
S2: kind of like insight into like, oh, like whether it's

488
00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:02,260
S2: like self reflective. And this is we can say how

489
00:22:02,260 --> 00:22:04,270
S2: crazy this is. Oh, no. Like, you know, the Beckhams

490
00:22:04,270 --> 00:22:06,100
S2: are commodities and they should expect this or whatever, but

491
00:22:06,100 --> 00:22:08,260
S2: you don't get that angle. And it's such an important

492
00:22:08,260 --> 00:22:12,850
S2: part of the documentary to see like how devastating this

493
00:22:12,850 --> 00:22:14,170
S2: was on him. And I think you can you can

494
00:22:14,170 --> 00:22:16,450
S2: tell it really impacted him. But yeah, you don't get

495
00:22:16,450 --> 00:22:18,400
S2: that voice. And I think that was probably lacking.

496
00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:20,199
S1: Well, he basically says the only way he managed to

497
00:22:20,200 --> 00:22:22,390
S1: deal with it is because his dad, when he was

498
00:22:22,390 --> 00:22:26,260
S1: growing up, was so relentlessly. He doesn't use the word abusive,

499
00:22:26,260 --> 00:22:29,290
S1: but like that's very heavily implied by the documentary. And

500
00:22:29,290 --> 00:22:31,780
S1: so his teammates, like he was going through it, like

501
00:22:31,780 --> 00:22:34,840
S1: Posh says he was clinically depressed, but because he just

502
00:22:34,840 --> 00:22:36,700
S1: has this kind of toughness built into and he dealt

503
00:22:36,700 --> 00:22:39,700
S1: with it and it reminded me of like this idea

504
00:22:39,700 --> 00:22:42,100
S1: of how have we gotten better or not is so interesting.

505
00:22:42,100 --> 00:22:44,710
S1: Like when England got out of the men's World Cup

506
00:22:44,710 --> 00:22:47,560
S1: most recently, or maybe it was like the Euros and

507
00:22:47,560 --> 00:22:49,390
S1: there was that young player who missed a penalty and

508
00:22:49,390 --> 00:22:53,350
S1: he was completely eviscerated as well. Like, just seems so obvious.

509
00:22:53,350 --> 00:22:55,450
S1: We haven't gotten better at this. And these are good

510
00:22:55,450 --> 00:22:57,330
S1: opportunities to interrogate this sort of stuff.

511
00:22:57,340 --> 00:22:59,950
S3: Yeah, I agree. But I don't think I disagree with

512
00:22:59,950 --> 00:23:03,670
S3: you two on the fact that I. I sometimes think

513
00:23:03,670 --> 00:23:07,300
S3: documentary is a bit lazy when it becomes didactic to

514
00:23:07,300 --> 00:23:09,460
S3: the point of purely blaming the media. And I actually

515
00:23:09,460 --> 00:23:12,430
S3: thought Fisher Stevens trod a really good line of not

516
00:23:12,430 --> 00:23:15,280
S3: being too moralistic about the media's role in this, because

517
00:23:15,280 --> 00:23:17,110
S3: we all know the media plays a huge role in

518
00:23:17,109 --> 00:23:19,480
S3: all of our national conversations. But what I thought was

519
00:23:19,480 --> 00:23:22,119
S3: interesting is, unlike other documentaries, where it is all the

520
00:23:22,119 --> 00:23:25,990
S3: media's support, he looked at the layers of complicity into

521
00:23:25,990 --> 00:23:29,410
S3: blaming the Beckhams or blaming David Beckham for this incident.

522
00:23:29,410 --> 00:23:32,199
S3: Like he looked at how the prime minister weighed into

523
00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:34,810
S3: it to get like public support. He looked at how

524
00:23:34,810 --> 00:23:38,199
S3: the coach weighed into it, obviously to save his own

525
00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:40,689
S3: kind of job as the coach, like I think he

526
00:23:40,690 --> 00:23:44,950
S3: looked at how multitudes of self interest created this situation

527
00:23:44,950 --> 00:23:47,980
S3: and including a culture that is so steeply pegged in

528
00:23:47,980 --> 00:23:50,590
S3: football and sees football as its kind of marker of

529
00:23:50,590 --> 00:23:53,949
S3: its nationality. So I quite liked that he didn't go

530
00:23:53,950 --> 00:23:55,750
S3: super hard on this as all the media's fault the

531
00:23:55,750 --> 00:23:57,940
S3: media did this. Obviously, he shows that the media played

532
00:23:57,940 --> 00:24:00,429
S3: a really big role in it, but that the media

533
00:24:00,430 --> 00:24:03,280
S3: doesn't exist in a vacuum and it feeds off culture

534
00:24:03,280 --> 00:24:05,590
S3: as much as it feeds into it. Though I did

535
00:24:05,590 --> 00:24:08,820
S3: really like the headline Stupid Spice that I thought I

536
00:24:08,830 --> 00:24:10,930
S3: was quite good and not too not too harmful.

537
00:24:10,930 --> 00:24:13,780
S2: It is really annoying when like like those papers come

538
00:24:13,780 --> 00:24:17,020
S2: up with something so funny. Yeah, but it's so awful.

539
00:24:17,020 --> 00:24:18,609
S2: You're like, Oh, I don't know how to feel.

540
00:24:18,700 --> 00:24:22,330
S1: Yeah. And I mean, look, Mel, that's very succinctly and

541
00:24:22,330 --> 00:24:26,320
S1: very articulately put in terms of those layers of complexity.

542
00:24:26,320 --> 00:24:29,379
S1: I mean, I do feel like that sort of brings

543
00:24:29,380 --> 00:24:32,200
S1: me to what I think is one of the issues

544
00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:33,730
S1: with this documentary. And I think it's one of the

545
00:24:33,730 --> 00:24:38,619
S1: issues with documentaries across the board that are coming out now.

546
00:24:38,619 --> 00:24:42,070
S1: Like we live in an era where celebrities don't need

547
00:24:42,070 --> 00:24:46,300
S1: to make themselves available to directors or producers or studios

548
00:24:46,780 --> 00:24:49,390
S1: for publicity, for fame. Like they don't need to take

549
00:24:49,390 --> 00:24:52,030
S1: that risk. They've built their own channels. Some of them

550
00:24:52,030 --> 00:24:54,280
S1: have giant social media accounts. Some of them have giant

551
00:24:54,280 --> 00:24:58,480
S1: TV shows and giant distribution deals of their own. They

552
00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:01,210
S1: can tell their own story on their own terms. So

553
00:25:01,630 --> 00:25:05,169
S1: if they sit down with a company like Netflix or

554
00:25:05,170 --> 00:25:07,870
S1: with a director like Fisher Stevens, they can say, Cool,

555
00:25:07,869 --> 00:25:09,970
S1: we will make ourselves available. But these are the terms

556
00:25:09,970 --> 00:25:11,950
S1: in which we will and maybe we have final cut

557
00:25:11,950 --> 00:25:15,220
S1: and whatever, and they can shape and mould the documentary

558
00:25:15,220 --> 00:25:18,580
S1: to suit them. We've seen that with like the Last Dance,

559
00:25:18,580 --> 00:25:20,260
S1: which I think a lot of critics said, as amazing

560
00:25:20,260 --> 00:25:23,740
S1: as it was, was very much like the Michael Jordan story.

561
00:25:23,770 --> 00:25:27,129
S1: Taylor Swift's Miss Americana, Gaga's five foot two like these.

562
00:25:27,130 --> 00:25:30,250
S1: This is just a model for how modern documentaries work.

563
00:25:30,250 --> 00:25:32,440
S1: So I'm not trying to knock this one in particular,

564
00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:35,919
S1: but I am interested in whether you guys think it

565
00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:38,830
S1: had too much of one particular version of events and

566
00:25:38,830 --> 00:25:40,990
S1: whether it could have been broadened out. I think it

567
00:25:40,990 --> 00:25:43,899
S1: did an okay job, but I also think it's very

568
00:25:43,900 --> 00:25:48,159
S1: clear that this is a story not about David Beckham

569
00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:51,040
S1: and about the impact that Beckham had on culture and

570
00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:53,080
S1: what he did right and what he did wrong. But

571
00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:56,139
S1: it is a story about how David Beckham became like

572
00:25:56,140 --> 00:26:00,199
S1: the hero of England, essentially. And I think. That took

573
00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:01,100
S1: a little bit away.

574
00:26:01,190 --> 00:26:03,410
S2: Yeah, I kind of agree. Like this could have been

575
00:26:03,410 --> 00:26:06,969
S2: called like. David Beckham adversity. You know what I mean? Like,

576
00:26:07,090 --> 00:26:09,609
S2: there was so much like but I ended up coming through.

577
00:26:09,609 --> 00:26:12,730
S2: It was tough, like, and I just think, yeah, I

578
00:26:12,730 --> 00:26:16,510
S2: don't know, like, I agree, but I, I think the

579
00:26:16,510 --> 00:26:19,090
S2: sad reality is when these documentaries come out now, whether

580
00:26:19,090 --> 00:26:21,639
S2: it is like a Beckham or the dance, like it's

581
00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:25,180
S2: almost like inbuilt in me that I'm like, well, whoever

582
00:26:25,180 --> 00:26:28,090
S2: is the subject of this documentary will have their fingerprints

583
00:26:28,090 --> 00:26:30,970
S2: all over it because like, that's how these things work now.

584
00:26:30,970 --> 00:26:33,310
S2: And so like I go in with that, assume knowledge

585
00:26:33,310 --> 00:26:36,160
S2: that it's not going to be this really insightful kind

586
00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:37,560
S2: of like balance thing. It's going to be, you know,

587
00:26:37,630 --> 00:26:41,230
S2: something that's crafted by the person involved because, yeah, you're right.

588
00:26:41,230 --> 00:26:43,090
S2: Like it's not like a two way street anymore. The

589
00:26:43,090 --> 00:26:47,170
S2: access isn't required. And so, you know, the best documentaries

590
00:26:47,170 --> 00:26:49,540
S2: out there are ones really that don't have that element

591
00:26:49,540 --> 00:26:51,520
S2: to it. And so I think you just have to

592
00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:53,469
S2: kind of go into these things knowing that.

593
00:26:53,830 --> 00:26:55,810
S3: But I think that's where the skill of like a

594
00:26:55,810 --> 00:26:59,500
S3: true documentarian comes in, because, yes, they could have spoken

595
00:26:59,500 --> 00:27:03,639
S3: to someone negative who said David Beckham is so vain.

596
00:27:03,640 --> 00:27:06,340
S3: But what Fisher Stevens does is he gets David Beckham

597
00:27:06,340 --> 00:27:08,889
S3: and Posh to say that without directly saying it, they

598
00:27:08,890 --> 00:27:11,410
S3: get them to tell the story about Beckham wanting his

599
00:27:11,410 --> 00:27:14,590
S3: hair fixed just after Brooklyn was born. That's who says

600
00:27:14,590 --> 00:27:16,300
S3: that they could have got a dad on the sideline

601
00:27:16,300 --> 00:27:19,239
S3: saying Beckham's father was well out of control. He was

602
00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:22,030
S3: an abusive dad. But Fisher Stevens doesn't need someone to

603
00:27:22,030 --> 00:27:24,940
S3: say that because they essentially say it themselves when Beckham

604
00:27:24,940 --> 00:27:25,420
S3: is talking about.

605
00:27:25,540 --> 00:27:27,700
S1: But when they're saying it themselves, they're saying it with

606
00:27:27,700 --> 00:27:30,250
S1: this kind of like cheeky, like, oh, yeah, you know,

607
00:27:30,250 --> 00:27:31,750
S1: he asked me to do that. But actually, it's kind

608
00:27:31,750 --> 00:27:33,820
S1: of charming. I love him anyway. And I do think

609
00:27:33,820 --> 00:27:37,030
S1: I do think even though, like we've all acknowledged that

610
00:27:37,030 --> 00:27:39,460
S1: like they were unfairly treated by the media, I mean,

611
00:27:39,460 --> 00:27:42,760
S1: like it's also true that David Beckham, when he was

612
00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:44,440
S1: a football star and said that he wanted to give

613
00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:47,380
S1: his all to England and to Manchester was chasing lucrative

614
00:27:47,380 --> 00:27:50,200
S1: sponsorship deals. And, you know, maybe I'm not trying to

615
00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:53,140
S1: buy into the narrative that like, he's a dad. And

616
00:27:53,140 --> 00:27:55,930
S1: so he should have sacrificed his family to play sport. But,

617
00:27:56,050 --> 00:27:58,210
S1: you know, there's a reasonable case to be made. And

618
00:27:58,210 --> 00:28:00,460
S1: Alex Ferguson, one of the greatest managers of all time,

619
00:28:00,460 --> 00:28:03,370
S1: who famously looked after and gave a lot of his

620
00:28:03,369 --> 00:28:06,609
S1: time and energy to his players, ended up getting very, very,

621
00:28:06,609 --> 00:28:09,699
S1: very frustrated with David Beckham to the point where he

622
00:28:09,700 --> 00:28:13,270
S1: was rumoured to have thrown a boot at him. Like

623
00:28:13,270 --> 00:28:17,650
S1: that stuff I feel like is downplayed in this documentary

624
00:28:17,650 --> 00:28:21,340
S1: in favour of a narrative that everyone was coming at Beckham,

625
00:28:21,340 --> 00:28:23,830
S1: everyone was trying to treat him unfairly and look what

626
00:28:23,830 --> 00:28:26,169
S1: he still managed to do despite all the odds.

627
00:28:26,290 --> 00:28:28,870
S3: I think because it's more subtle, it's more powerful. And

628
00:28:28,869 --> 00:28:31,390
S3: I think sometimes the way that these people are trying

629
00:28:31,390 --> 00:28:33,550
S3: to sell themselves is the most revealing thing of all.

630
00:28:33,550 --> 00:28:36,369
S3: And you mentioned the last dance where they give Michael

631
00:28:36,369 --> 00:28:38,770
S3: Jordan air to talk and talk and talk and talk

632
00:28:38,770 --> 00:28:41,320
S3: and Michael Jordan doesn't. Again, we don't need someone to

633
00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:44,320
S3: tell us. Michael Jordan is obviously a bit insane and

634
00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:48,190
S3: he is driven by a like borderline unhealthy level of

635
00:28:48,190 --> 00:28:51,280
S3: competitiveness because you don't need someone to spell that out

636
00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:53,320
S3: for you. And it would kind of same with this.

637
00:28:53,320 --> 00:28:55,600
S3: You know, you do get the sense that Alex Ferguson

638
00:28:55,600 --> 00:28:59,020
S3: and David Beckham had a complete breakdown of their relationship.

639
00:28:59,020 --> 00:29:01,690
S3: And they show that in so many ways. Like I

640
00:29:01,690 --> 00:29:04,959
S3: understand what you're saying, on the surface, it seems to

641
00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:07,930
S3: be telling one story, but I think readers.

642
00:29:08,680 --> 00:29:10,660
S4: Readers love and everything's a book about.

643
00:29:12,040 --> 00:29:15,400
S3: Read everything like one viewers can kind of are smart

644
00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:18,040
S3: enough to see what's actually being said between the lines.

645
00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:20,830
S3: Like it doesn't need to be as obvious as day. Yeah.

646
00:29:20,830 --> 00:29:24,340
S2: But I think that in saying that if this documentary,

647
00:29:24,610 --> 00:29:27,370
S2: like Beckham is one of those sportsmen that people generally

648
00:29:27,370 --> 00:29:30,430
S2: consider to be like pretty good, pretty Teflon, nothing sticks.

649
00:29:30,430 --> 00:29:33,150
S2: He's he's he's like he's like pretty controversy free, you know,

650
00:29:33,190 --> 00:29:36,219
S2: like the biggest, like, controversy. And he's like, Wikipedia entry

651
00:29:36,220 --> 00:29:39,760
S2: would be like the Rebekah Lewis rumored affair when he

652
00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:43,000
S2: moved to Madrid. And like, as a Beckham fan and

653
00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:45,520
S2: a football fan, like I reckon if this documentary been

654
00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:48,430
S2: made by Fisher Stevens, but like and with Beckham's total cooperation,

655
00:29:48,430 --> 00:29:50,800
S2: but not him being a producing partner, like one of

656
00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:53,800
S2: the biggest kind of scandals around Beckham in recent years

657
00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:55,900
S2: is that he's been like a long term champion for

658
00:29:55,900 --> 00:30:00,460
S2: Lgbtqi rights. But he was an ambassador for the Qatar

659
00:30:00,460 --> 00:30:02,500
S2: World Cup and he was paid like tens of millions

660
00:30:02,500 --> 00:30:05,080
S2: of dollars. And it was a constant conversation in football

661
00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:07,920
S2: around the World Cup about how is Beckham, you know,

662
00:30:07,930 --> 00:30:10,030
S2: the biggest sell, like one of the biggest brands in

663
00:30:10,030 --> 00:30:12,940
S2: world football and in world sport. How is he like balancing,

664
00:30:12,940 --> 00:30:17,770
S2: you know, his role as this like face and ambassador

665
00:30:17,770 --> 00:30:20,140
S2: for the Qatar World Cup, which is so at odds

666
00:30:20,140 --> 00:30:22,570
S2: with everything else he's stood for throughout his entire career.

667
00:30:22,570 --> 00:30:25,300
S2: And he's such an important person in the cultural landscape.

668
00:30:25,300 --> 00:30:28,060
S2: And he refused to kind of engage with that. And that,

669
00:30:28,060 --> 00:30:30,070
S2: I think, should have been part of this documentary. And

670
00:30:30,070 --> 00:30:33,100
S2: I think if Beckham wasn't involved to the degree he is,

671
00:30:33,100 --> 00:30:34,270
S2: it would have been.

672
00:30:34,330 --> 00:30:36,040
S1: Yeah, I think that's a that's a really good point.

673
00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:38,500
S1: I think I think you're right. Like as a as

674
00:30:38,500 --> 00:30:41,110
S1: a sort of as a text, if you will. The

675
00:30:41,110 --> 00:30:45,220
S1: documentary has enough of that subtlety and nuance that you

676
00:30:45,220 --> 00:30:47,290
S1: can read between the lines and figure that out. But

677
00:30:47,290 --> 00:30:49,270
S1: as probably what will end up being one of the

678
00:30:49,270 --> 00:30:54,160
S1: most definitive documentaries of this man because of the access

679
00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:56,229
S1: Fisher Stevens could get not just to the Beckhams, but

680
00:30:56,230 --> 00:30:58,090
S1: he tells this story, an interview with The Guardian, where

681
00:30:58,090 --> 00:31:00,730
S1: he managed to get extra time with Alex Ferguson because

682
00:31:00,730 --> 00:31:03,310
S1: Alex Ferguson is mates with Brian Cox, who he knows

683
00:31:03,310 --> 00:31:05,400
S1: from succession. Then he got him a signed copy of

684
00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:07,470
S1: his book and all that sort of stuff. So. So

685
00:31:07,470 --> 00:31:09,870
S1: he's done all of this. And when we look back

686
00:31:09,870 --> 00:31:12,150
S1: on this in ten, 15, 20, 30 years time, the

687
00:31:12,150 --> 00:31:14,910
S1: way that documentaries are supposed to be, we will end

688
00:31:14,910 --> 00:31:18,570
S1: up with a documentary about Beckham that doesn't tell us

689
00:31:18,570 --> 00:31:22,380
S1: the rounded story and some of the less shiny bits,

690
00:31:22,380 --> 00:31:24,250
S1: as Thomas put. Is that fair to say?

691
00:31:24,270 --> 00:31:25,709
S3: I think that's fair. And can I just pick up

692
00:31:25,710 --> 00:31:28,050
S3: on the succession while we're talking about succession cross-over? Of course,

693
00:31:28,050 --> 00:31:29,850
S3: the music in this from the.

694
00:31:30,270 --> 00:31:31,840
S4: Succession to.

695
00:31:31,860 --> 00:31:33,750
S3: Succession, it's the strings.

696
00:31:33,790 --> 00:31:34,830
S4: Piano. It's the kind of.

697
00:31:34,830 --> 00:31:36,900
S3: Build up to the climax and the disappearance. I was like,

698
00:31:36,900 --> 00:31:38,340
S3: this is succession music.

699
00:31:47,650 --> 00:31:51,130
S1: So I asked you guys to think about your favorite

700
00:31:51,130 --> 00:31:55,270
S1: sports tacos when we were having this conversation about covering

701
00:31:55,270 --> 00:31:58,000
S1: this particular show. And I thought of a couple. And

702
00:31:58,000 --> 00:31:59,860
S1: I think the reason why these came to mind is

703
00:31:59,860 --> 00:32:04,540
S1: because they are from a different era where a director

704
00:32:04,540 --> 00:32:08,020
S1: or storyteller can just piece together a narrative without having

705
00:32:08,020 --> 00:32:12,310
S1: to worry about the subjects involved. The first one, and

706
00:32:12,310 --> 00:32:15,760
S1: this is my favorite documentary perhaps of all time, is

707
00:32:15,760 --> 00:32:18,490
S1: When We Were Kings came out in 1994. It's about

708
00:32:18,490 --> 00:32:22,060
S1: the very famous Rumble in the Jungle fight between George

709
00:32:22,060 --> 00:32:25,360
S1: Foreman and Muhammad Ali in Zaire, what is now the

710
00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:28,810
S1: Democratic Republic of Congo. Based on archive footage, interviews at

711
00:32:28,810 --> 00:32:32,050
S1: the time, interviews over the next like decades, I think

712
00:32:32,050 --> 00:32:35,680
S1: the director, Leon Gas, took something like 20, 30 years

713
00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:40,360
S1: to make this movie. It's extraordinary. Like it's just Muhammad Ali,

714
00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:43,990
S1: I think is one of the greatest human beings that

715
00:32:43,990 --> 00:32:46,810
S1: has existed in history, let alone like one of the

716
00:32:46,810 --> 00:32:50,200
S1: greatest athletes. So to have this story told the story

717
00:32:50,200 --> 00:32:51,760
S1: of him, the story of what he meant to so

718
00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:55,120
S1: many people, what he meant to post-colonial Africa, the role

719
00:32:55,120 --> 00:32:58,060
S1: that boxing plays in like American and global culture. It's

720
00:32:58,060 --> 00:32:59,980
S1: just awesome. Have you guys seen it?

721
00:32:59,980 --> 00:33:02,030
S2: I have seen it with my dad's favorite films. Yeah, No,

722
00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:02,440
S2: I know.

723
00:33:02,710 --> 00:33:04,120
S3: I've not seen it on the list.

724
00:33:04,120 --> 00:33:05,680
S1: And the others I wanted to mention. So I'm a

725
00:33:05,680 --> 00:33:07,930
S1: big fan of Asif Kapadia, his work. He's a director

726
00:33:07,930 --> 00:33:12,100
S1: who's really famous for stitching together these linear narratives through

727
00:33:12,100 --> 00:33:15,730
S1: largely like just using archival footage. And his movie, Amy,

728
00:33:15,730 --> 00:33:18,670
S1: about Amy Winehouse is amazing, but he's done two sports

729
00:33:18,670 --> 00:33:22,719
S1: tacos as well. Diego about Maradona, which is just extraordinary,

730
00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:26,140
S1: and Senna about the F1 driver. Both of those movies

731
00:33:26,140 --> 00:33:30,280
S1: again made, I think, like with distance from those athletes

732
00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:34,060
S1: being alive and not really in collaboration with them means

733
00:33:34,060 --> 00:33:37,090
S1: you get a story told with love, but a story

734
00:33:37,090 --> 00:33:40,030
S1: told honestly. And I think I hope we still get

735
00:33:40,030 --> 00:33:42,430
S1: those dockers, even though I like the kind of raw

736
00:33:42,430 --> 00:33:44,920
S1: insight you get from something like Beckham in the Last Dance.

737
00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:47,080
S1: But I do hope we still get the kind of

738
00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:48,910
S1: more removed ones as well.

739
00:33:48,910 --> 00:33:50,950
S3: Yeah, and they're still held up, aren't they, as the

740
00:33:50,950 --> 00:33:52,860
S3: kind of ultimate sports documentaries?

741
00:33:52,870 --> 00:33:53,280
S4: Totally.

742
00:33:53,290 --> 00:33:57,010
S2: Diego's so great. I loved that one. And yeah, it's

743
00:33:57,010 --> 00:33:59,260
S2: such a I my dad and I went to see

744
00:33:59,260 --> 00:34:01,720
S2: that at like Norton Street Cinemas in like Art here

745
00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:04,030
S2: in Sydney. It's like, you know, it's like a big

746
00:34:04,030 --> 00:34:06,190
S2: ethnic hotspot. We went like in the middle of the

747
00:34:06,190 --> 00:34:08,170
S2: day during the week. I mean, book tickets. He was like,

748
00:34:08,170 --> 00:34:10,570
S2: Let's go and see like, yeah. And then we went

749
00:34:10,570 --> 00:34:12,879
S2: and saw it and like ten minutes into the film,

750
00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:14,470
S2: I look over, she's like asleep next to me.

751
00:34:14,810 --> 00:34:15,190
S4: People in the.

752
00:34:15,190 --> 00:34:19,900
S2: Cinema. But now that was amazing. Yeah. And similarly, my one.

753
00:34:19,900 --> 00:34:22,810
S2: So this is, you know, maybe an obvious pick but

754
00:34:22,810 --> 00:34:25,989
S2: the Armstrong lie so that Alex Gibney film such an

755
00:34:25,989 --> 00:34:27,940
S2: incredible film. And again I think the reason I love

756
00:34:27,940 --> 00:34:29,739
S2: this one so much is I mean it couldn't be

757
00:34:29,739 --> 00:34:31,990
S2: further away from these other type of documentaries in the

758
00:34:31,989 --> 00:34:35,260
S2: way it's kind of comes together, but the story changes

759
00:34:35,260 --> 00:34:38,049
S2: like in real time. So in 2009, Alex Gibney kind

760
00:34:38,050 --> 00:34:40,840
S2: of like set out to make a documentary about the

761
00:34:40,840 --> 00:34:45,130
S2: miraculous Lance Armstrong comeback from having cancer. So becoming seven

762
00:34:45,130 --> 00:34:49,630
S2: time to a different champion. And then, of course, in 2012,

763
00:34:49,630 --> 00:34:52,960
S2: this investigation into what is the Armstrong lie, the fact

764
00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:54,880
S2: that he was doping for a very, very large part

765
00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:57,280
S2: of his career and he's getting stripped of his titles

766
00:34:57,430 --> 00:34:59,740
S2: begins And you know, Alex is still in the process

767
00:34:59,739 --> 00:35:02,590
S2: of making the film. So like the entire documentary, just

768
00:35:02,590 --> 00:35:06,610
S2: like changes tact and changes lanes. And then it's basically

769
00:35:06,610 --> 00:35:09,940
S2: in 2013 when Armstrong like famously sits down with Oprah

770
00:35:09,940 --> 00:35:12,400
S2: to do his big tell all. And then the documentary

771
00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:14,950
S2: picks up like he literally goes from Oprah to like

772
00:35:14,950 --> 00:35:17,020
S2: two hours later, he sits down with Alex Gibney. And

773
00:35:17,020 --> 00:35:19,930
S2: it's just got that incredible immediacy. And you've got this like,

774
00:35:20,200 --> 00:35:23,950
S2: you know, someone who is an like raging egomaniac, just

775
00:35:23,950 --> 00:35:27,370
S2: being like, he's so raw and just like being forced

776
00:35:27,370 --> 00:35:29,290
S2: to admit what he's done. Yeah. So I thought that

777
00:35:29,290 --> 00:35:32,500
S2: was just this incredible snapshot of like a both an

778
00:35:32,500 --> 00:35:34,390
S2: amazing sportsman and an incredible liar.

779
00:35:34,540 --> 00:35:37,360
S1: And that's an amazing example of one where there was

780
00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:40,690
S1: access and involvement from the subject, but at a moment

781
00:35:40,690 --> 00:35:42,460
S1: in their career where they kind of needed it, they

782
00:35:42,460 --> 00:35:44,740
S1: needed it as a not just redemption, but just like

783
00:35:44,739 --> 00:35:47,860
S1: get their side of the story out there. So it's

784
00:35:47,950 --> 00:35:51,250
S1: not like influenced by his involvement, but it benefits from it.

785
00:35:51,250 --> 00:35:51,850
S1: And mostly and.

786
00:35:51,850 --> 00:35:54,130
S3: I do think it's interesting how sports documentaries have kind

787
00:35:54,130 --> 00:35:57,910
S3: of shifted almost into reality TV series, like the link

788
00:35:57,910 --> 00:36:02,560
S3: between standalone documentary movies and entertainment reality shows, particularly with

789
00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:05,890
S3: the whole Netflix brand of Drive to Survive and the

790
00:36:05,890 --> 00:36:08,979
S3: series that they've done. It's a real clear move now

791
00:36:08,980 --> 00:36:11,770
S3: that they're making them more as fly on the wall pieces.

792
00:36:11,950 --> 00:36:13,690
S1: Totally, Totally. What about you email? What have you got

793
00:36:13,690 --> 00:36:14,200
S1: for us?

794
00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:17,860
S3: I went for a classic Hoop Dreams 1994, directed by

795
00:36:17,860 --> 00:36:20,770
S3: Steve James, follows two high school students who want to

796
00:36:20,770 --> 00:36:26,830
S3: become professional basketball players. It's got it all. Class, race, hope, dreams,

797
00:36:26,830 --> 00:36:30,339
S3: dashed injuries. I just What's not to love?

798
00:36:30,460 --> 00:36:32,230
S2: You're such a sports sucker. I love it. I think

799
00:36:32,260 --> 00:36:34,060
S2: people don't really know this, but like. Yeah. Are you

800
00:36:34,060 --> 00:36:34,770
S2: really putting it out there?

801
00:36:34,870 --> 00:36:36,850
S3: Love it. Okay. Last week I said that our pod

802
00:36:36,850 --> 00:36:39,879
S3: was now about sports and books. And I am. I'm

803
00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:40,340
S3: a mastermind.

804
00:36:40,360 --> 00:36:41,170
S4: Like I said, you.

805
00:36:41,170 --> 00:36:44,710
S1: Somehow subtly managed to just absolutely dominate what the hell

806
00:36:44,710 --> 00:36:45,400
S1: this podcast is.

807
00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:47,780
S3: About. And I'd also like to give. A mention to

808
00:36:47,780 --> 00:36:49,880
S3: this one was was not on my radar. And then

809
00:36:49,880 --> 00:36:51,770
S3: I was sitting at home looking for a sports documentary

810
00:36:51,770 --> 00:36:55,790
S3: to watch because that's my hobby. And it was on Netflix.

811
00:36:55,790 --> 00:36:58,370
S3: Holly and Katya. It's about ice.

812
00:36:58,390 --> 00:36:59,150
S4: That's new.

813
00:36:59,300 --> 00:37:02,750
S3: Yeah, it's new. It's about two Australian ice skaters. So

814
00:37:02,750 --> 00:37:05,780
S3: one is an indigenous Australian who grew up in Rudie

815
00:37:05,780 --> 00:37:08,120
S3: Hill and fell in love with ice skating. He didn't

816
00:37:08,120 --> 00:37:10,910
S3: have a female partner. They kind of went over to Russia,

817
00:37:10,910 --> 00:37:13,850
S3: found a young woman who was good ice skating because

818
00:37:13,850 --> 00:37:16,820
S3: they have a quite serious program. They're brought over to Australia,

819
00:37:16,820 --> 00:37:20,899
S3: no parents, no one really to take care or guardianship

820
00:37:20,900 --> 00:37:24,410
S3: of her. And they became this kind of ice skating duo.

821
00:37:24,410 --> 00:37:27,650
S3: They won the kind of world championships for young people.

822
00:37:27,650 --> 00:37:30,260
S3: They went to the Olympics. All hope was on them.

823
00:37:30,260 --> 00:37:33,170
S3: She kind of spirals out of control because she's really young,

824
00:37:33,170 --> 00:37:37,640
S3: she's really isolated, and she's under so much pressure and

825
00:37:37,640 --> 00:37:41,390
S3: starts drinking, has problems with eating disorder and overtakes diuretics.

826
00:37:41,390 --> 00:37:45,710
S3: She gets kicked out of competing and and it takes

827
00:37:45,710 --> 00:37:49,160
S3: a really dark turn. And the story is really about

828
00:37:49,160 --> 00:37:52,970
S3: how no one wanted to look after this young woman

829
00:37:52,969 --> 00:37:56,090
S3: and no one felt responsible for her. And even in

830
00:37:56,090 --> 00:37:59,060
S3: the documentary, when they're talking to people from the IOC

831
00:37:59,060 --> 00:38:01,940
S3: and from the Australian sports world, they're all just kind

832
00:38:01,940 --> 00:38:05,270
S3: of hands off. And it's how this whole system created

833
00:38:05,270 --> 00:38:08,600
S3: this athlete. And then once she failed to deliver success,

834
00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:09,560
S3: let her go.

835
00:38:09,580 --> 00:38:12,110
S4: It's it's remarkable. What is it on what platforms?

836
00:38:12,290 --> 00:38:15,080
S3: It's on Netflix. But it was originally an ABC kind

837
00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:15,380
S3: of back.

838
00:38:15,380 --> 00:38:16,070
S4: Doco like.

839
00:38:16,070 --> 00:38:17,000
S1: Australian ABC.

840
00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:18,169
S4: Yeah. Wow There you go.

841
00:38:18,200 --> 00:38:20,089
S2: If you're looking for something lighter in the ice skating space,

842
00:38:20,090 --> 00:38:21,710
S2: obviously Blades of Glory holds up.

843
00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:24,800
S1: So your favorite sports doco?

844
00:38:24,800 --> 00:38:25,040
S4: Yeah.

845
00:38:25,520 --> 00:38:26,060
S2: Some play.

846
00:38:26,210 --> 00:38:26,390
S4: Some.

847
00:38:26,750 --> 00:38:28,130
S1: Talladega Nights. You back that up?

848
00:38:28,130 --> 00:38:28,880
S4: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

849
00:38:28,890 --> 00:38:32,060
S1: Little Ricky. Bobby. Okay, so speaking of good wrecks, when

850
00:38:32,060 --> 00:38:35,209
S1: it comes to TV dramas, it's felt like we've been

851
00:38:35,210 --> 00:38:37,070
S1: in a dry spell the last couple of months. We've

852
00:38:37,070 --> 00:38:39,350
S1: been talking about this. We're not sure what to watch.

853
00:38:39,350 --> 00:38:41,719
S1: A lot of friends have been asking us what is

854
00:38:41,719 --> 00:38:44,540
S1: out there? What can we watch? What is good? I

855
00:38:44,540 --> 00:38:46,910
S1: stumbled onto something last week that I think is a

856
00:38:46,910 --> 00:38:49,100
S1: real hidden gem, and I think it's one of the

857
00:38:49,100 --> 00:38:52,459
S1: standout shows of the back half of this year. And

858
00:38:52,460 --> 00:38:56,930
S1: I've kind of forced, politely encouraged you guys to to

859
00:38:56,930 --> 00:38:59,209
S1: watch this show. It's called The Gold, and I think

860
00:38:59,210 --> 00:39:00,830
S1: it is fucking sick.

861
00:39:01,489 --> 00:39:06,080
S8: Gold like that, you can't control it. And if you

862
00:39:06,080 --> 00:39:09,380
S8: can't handle it, then it will find its way to

863
00:39:09,380 --> 00:39:12,710
S8: someone who can. Six robbers have carried out an armed

864
00:39:12,710 --> 00:39:15,630
S8: raid stealing almost three tons of gold bullion. So, friends,

865
00:39:15,650 --> 00:39:16,490
S8: as you can shift it.

866
00:39:16,580 --> 00:39:18,730
S9: You can handle a job like this. And out of earlier,

867
00:39:18,739 --> 00:39:19,100
S9: you only.

868
00:39:19,100 --> 00:39:20,470
S8: Hear about the people who get caught.

869
00:39:20,480 --> 00:39:23,420
S10: We're looking for six robbers and three tons of gold.

870
00:39:23,420 --> 00:39:25,819
S8: Money like that will end up in surprising places with

871
00:39:25,820 --> 00:39:26,900
S8: surprising people.

872
00:39:26,900 --> 00:39:29,360
S1: It tells a story of a real life robbery in

873
00:39:29,360 --> 00:39:32,510
S1: London in 1983. It's one of the biggest heists in

874
00:39:32,510 --> 00:39:37,370
S1: UK history, actually, where £26 million worth of gold bullion

875
00:39:37,370 --> 00:39:40,520
S1: was stolen. And the show follows the robbers as they're

876
00:39:40,520 --> 00:39:43,040
S1: trying to figure out how to hide and sell all

877
00:39:43,040 --> 00:39:45,560
S1: this gold they were not expecting to stumble on to

878
00:39:45,560 --> 00:39:48,350
S1: to three tonnes of gold. And it also follows the

879
00:39:48,350 --> 00:39:51,350
S1: police as they put together this flying squad unit to

880
00:39:51,350 --> 00:39:53,839
S1: try and track them down. But what I love about

881
00:39:53,840 --> 00:39:55,730
S1: the show, as well as the kind of cat and

882
00:39:55,730 --> 00:39:58,729
S1: mouse cops first robbers element, which is really, really, really

883
00:39:58,730 --> 00:40:01,610
S1: well done, it becomes as much broader story of like

884
00:40:01,640 --> 00:40:05,719
S1: class and economic structures in the UK during that time

885
00:40:05,719 --> 00:40:09,770
S1: of social turmoil and upheaval in the 1980s, Yoga Maggie

886
00:40:09,770 --> 00:40:13,250
S1: Thatcher was doing her thing. Mel It also has a

887
00:40:13,250 --> 00:40:16,160
S1: really amazing cast. Jack Lowden, who I really fell in

888
00:40:16,160 --> 00:40:19,790
S1: love with in Slow Horses on Apple Tv+ Hugh Bonneville

889
00:40:19,790 --> 00:40:23,100
S1: from Downton Abbey. Sean Harris. Dominic Cooper These are like

890
00:40:23,120 --> 00:40:25,960
S1: some of the best British character actors in film and TV,

891
00:40:25,969 --> 00:40:28,549
S1: I think of all time, and they are in this

892
00:40:28,550 --> 00:40:33,560
S1: really fun, stylistically enjoyable show. How did you guys find

893
00:40:33,560 --> 00:40:34,280
S1: the gold?

894
00:40:34,430 --> 00:40:36,170
S3: Well, we did a little trade off. I think we

895
00:40:36,170 --> 00:40:37,700
S3: were talking. You were like, I'll watch Beckham, but you

896
00:40:37,700 --> 00:40:40,279
S3: have to watch gold. And I am really happy with

897
00:40:40,280 --> 00:40:41,390
S3: what I got in that trade.

898
00:40:41,390 --> 00:40:41,850
S4: Yeah, great.

899
00:40:41,870 --> 00:40:44,780
S3: The gold is so good. Worth the kind of paramount

900
00:40:44,780 --> 00:40:46,610
S3: free trial for seven days.

901
00:40:46,610 --> 00:40:48,140
S4: Yeah, it's on Paramount. Plus, we should have said. Yeah.

902
00:40:48,360 --> 00:40:51,470
S3: Yeah, it's incredible. I get kind of bored of, like,

903
00:40:51,620 --> 00:40:53,810
S3: cop dramas where it's just kind of the girl's body

904
00:40:53,810 --> 00:40:56,930
S3: being found in the woods. And this is so different

905
00:40:56,930 --> 00:41:00,890
S3: to that. It's so clever. The class element is incredible.

906
00:41:00,890 --> 00:41:03,560
S3: There's this line in it where it's like people who

907
00:41:03,560 --> 00:41:05,569
S3: come from money don't think about right or wrong when

908
00:41:05,570 --> 00:41:07,520
S3: they want to make money. And that kind of moral

909
00:41:07,520 --> 00:41:11,630
S3: question about who are the villains hangs over the entire thing.

910
00:41:11,630 --> 00:41:15,649
S3: And just the kind of irony of like, was stealing

911
00:41:15,650 --> 00:41:19,100
S3: this gold luck or not luck for these people. I

912
00:41:19,100 --> 00:41:21,440
S3: think it's a fantastic premise. And then it well, it

913
00:41:21,440 --> 00:41:22,310
S3: really delivers.

914
00:41:22,310 --> 00:41:24,590
S2: Yeah, totally agree. I feel like it's like so many

915
00:41:24,590 --> 00:41:26,480
S2: of these like, British shows come out and they like,

916
00:41:26,480 --> 00:41:29,120
S2: often like British shows don't get the prestige tag. It's

917
00:41:29,120 --> 00:41:32,350
S2: like America has like, got a monopoly on that prestige tag.

918
00:41:32,360 --> 00:41:34,520
S2: And it's like really not fair because this is definitely

919
00:41:34,520 --> 00:41:37,130
S2: one of the best sleeper shows around. And yeah, agree.

920
00:41:37,130 --> 00:41:39,319
S2: Like I love how they even the language that they

921
00:41:39,320 --> 00:41:42,000
S2: all they talk they call themselves villains and stuff. Yeah

922
00:41:42,350 --> 00:41:44,029
S2: and also I do I think gives us a really

923
00:41:44,030 --> 00:41:46,910
S2: cool insight into like, you know, at that time South

924
00:41:46,910 --> 00:41:49,700
S2: London was like, you know, that was like the underbelly.

925
00:41:49,700 --> 00:41:51,890
S2: It was like a bit of a shithole. And, you know,

926
00:41:51,890 --> 00:41:54,200
S2: this is where, like, everyone was like doing their operating

927
00:41:54,200 --> 00:41:56,450
S2: and stuff and like, cops and like every cream in

928
00:41:56,450 --> 00:41:59,330
S2: South London where the Krays operated. And it's like, you know,

929
00:41:59,570 --> 00:42:01,670
S2: it was where it was all like the beating heart

930
00:42:01,670 --> 00:42:04,010
S2: of UK crime. And I just think it does give

931
00:42:04,010 --> 00:42:06,650
S2: this really cool introduction into this world that maybe you

932
00:42:06,650 --> 00:42:09,560
S2: don't know about. And yeah, the performances are amazing. Like

933
00:42:09,560 --> 00:42:12,140
S2: it was probably your best recommendation, I reckon, because you've

934
00:42:12,140 --> 00:42:15,020
S2: had some stinkers, but this is like this is a

935
00:42:15,020 --> 00:42:16,100
S2: close to a ten from you.

936
00:42:16,100 --> 00:42:18,799
S3: Oh, the 1980s. The aesthetic in it is so good

937
00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:21,420
S3: as well, but not overly showy. Like it's just there.

938
00:42:21,600 --> 00:42:23,029
S2: I love shows where everyone smokes.

939
00:42:23,030 --> 00:42:24,980
S1: Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's a guy. There's like a lot

940
00:42:24,980 --> 00:42:27,920
S1: of smelting going on in this show. Yeah. And there's

941
00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:30,620
S1: a guy in a smelter like smoking in the smelter,

942
00:42:30,620 --> 00:42:32,690
S1: and I'm like, This is not good for you, bro. Like,

943
00:42:32,690 --> 00:42:36,560
S1: you got gold fumes, you got cigarette fumes. The show also,

944
00:42:36,560 --> 00:42:40,550
S1: like every episode, I'm surprised by something like the third

945
00:42:40,550 --> 00:42:43,759
S1: episode opens in Sierra Leone and you're like, What the

946
00:42:43,760 --> 00:42:45,140
S1: hell does this have to do with this show? And

947
00:42:45,140 --> 00:42:47,630
S1: then it actually pays off in that episode later on.

948
00:42:47,630 --> 00:42:50,570
S1: Then there's like, they go to like different European settings

949
00:42:50,570 --> 00:42:53,210
S1: and stuff and they're riding you right at that line.

950
00:42:53,210 --> 00:42:55,910
S1: Like there are so many of these, a little bit

951
00:42:55,920 --> 00:42:58,759
S1: TV bullshit stuff where like, you know, a cop who

952
00:42:58,760 --> 00:43:01,460
S1: wants to like just join the front line. Like we'll

953
00:43:01,460 --> 00:43:03,440
S1: give this like ten minute speech when he would have

954
00:43:03,440 --> 00:43:05,660
S1: just been like, I'm out of here. But the speech

955
00:43:05,660 --> 00:43:08,570
S1: is land. You feel like every character, even the ones

956
00:43:08,570 --> 00:43:10,460
S1: that pop in for like 5 or 10 minutes, they

957
00:43:10,460 --> 00:43:13,580
S1: have a backstory. You get everyone's motivation. And this idea

958
00:43:13,580 --> 00:43:15,890
S1: of who the real bad guys are, who the real

959
00:43:15,890 --> 00:43:19,640
S1: villains are, is so good because both the cops and

960
00:43:19,640 --> 00:43:23,090
S1: the guys who've done this heist keep talking about the

961
00:43:23,090 --> 00:43:24,980
S1: fact that like, they're kind of on the bottom of

962
00:43:24,980 --> 00:43:26,960
S1: the rung and they might benefit, but there's going to

963
00:43:26,960 --> 00:43:30,080
S1: be someone at the top who benefits. And without giving

964
00:43:30,080 --> 00:43:31,580
S1: much away, I mean, this is a real story. You

965
00:43:31,580 --> 00:43:34,250
S1: can go read what happens on Wikipedia without giving much

966
00:43:34,250 --> 00:43:38,690
S1: away like it does feel like that the working class

967
00:43:38,690 --> 00:43:40,730
S1: guys who were just trying to like do a little

968
00:43:40,760 --> 00:43:43,430
S1: bit of a heist will probably get screwed over. And

969
00:43:43,430 --> 00:43:45,710
S1: the guys at the very top who are involved in,

970
00:43:45,710 --> 00:43:48,440
S1: you know, washing the money, investing it in these property

971
00:43:48,440 --> 00:43:51,290
S1: schemes will probably end up getting away scot free.

972
00:43:51,290 --> 00:43:54,080
S3: And you are right, it grows from South London into

973
00:43:54,080 --> 00:43:57,049
S3: this whole kind of global event that's tackling as well

974
00:43:57,050 --> 00:44:00,980
S3: as class institutional corruption. It's moving markets when they steal.

975
00:44:00,969 --> 00:44:03,040
S3: All this gold because there's so much of it like

976
00:44:03,040 --> 00:44:05,469
S3: it does become this kind of global story.

977
00:44:05,469 --> 00:44:09,940
S2: I also just it made me really sad that there's

978
00:44:09,940 --> 00:44:11,860
S2: not more bank robberies these days.

979
00:44:12,580 --> 00:44:14,980
S4: Okay. Okay. No, no, no. I agree with this because.

980
00:44:14,980 --> 00:44:16,870
S1: I watch it and I'm like, you just can't do

981
00:44:16,870 --> 00:44:17,230
S1: this anymore.

982
00:44:17,260 --> 00:44:18,850
S2: You cannot rob a bank anymore. It's too hard.

983
00:44:18,850 --> 00:44:19,660
S1: The CCTV.

984
00:44:19,660 --> 00:44:20,140
S4: Footage.

985
00:44:20,260 --> 00:44:21,690
S1: Facial ID like.

986
00:44:21,700 --> 00:44:22,600
S4: Fingerprint painting.

987
00:44:22,600 --> 00:44:24,370
S2: The money and stuff, like it is too hard to

988
00:44:24,370 --> 00:44:27,700
S2: rob a bank. And I think, you know, crime is bad,

989
00:44:27,940 --> 00:44:30,160
S2: but of all the crime, crime.

990
00:44:30,160 --> 00:44:32,530
S1: Is also socially created.

991
00:44:32,530 --> 00:44:33,010
S4: Exactly.

992
00:44:33,010 --> 00:44:35,080
S2: I just think of all the crimes bank robbing. There's

993
00:44:35,080 --> 00:44:38,230
S2: like a romance to it. And I personally think I

994
00:44:38,230 --> 00:44:38,950
S2: could do with a bit more being.

995
00:44:39,070 --> 00:44:39,819
S4: Almost a victimless.

996
00:44:39,820 --> 00:44:41,920
S1: Crime. Except the victims are rich bankers.

997
00:44:41,920 --> 00:44:42,580
S4: Yes, correct.

998
00:44:42,580 --> 00:44:44,200
S1: And are they real victims? I don't know.

999
00:44:44,200 --> 00:44:47,799
S3: Do you think they store gold nuggets in banks these days?

1000
00:44:47,800 --> 00:44:50,350
S3: Because in this show they kind of stumble upon them

1001
00:44:50,350 --> 00:44:51,880
S3: accidentally because they can't fit into.

1002
00:44:51,880 --> 00:44:52,600
S4: Yeah, don't we have don't.

1003
00:44:52,600 --> 00:44:55,000
S1: Like the mints and things have like gold.

1004
00:44:55,000 --> 00:44:57,319
S4: Bullion in them don't they. Do they. Not. So it's

1005
00:44:57,370 --> 00:44:58,509
S4: gold sand. Is that a thing.

1006
00:44:58,510 --> 00:44:59,739
S3: I don't know. But you can put in a $2

1007
00:44:59,739 --> 00:45:02,020
S3: coin at the mint and get a dollar back. So

1008
00:45:02,020 --> 00:45:03,879
S3: if that's not a bank robbing us.

1009
00:45:04,060 --> 00:45:05,799
S4: There you go. You got me. Do they take it?

1010
00:45:05,800 --> 00:45:07,870
S4: That's how they make the money. That's the next Paramount series.

1011
00:45:07,870 --> 00:45:10,330
S1: Like jokes aside, I do think that's an interesting point.

1012
00:45:10,330 --> 00:45:12,850
S1: And I think like, how do you make a modern

1013
00:45:12,850 --> 00:45:16,600
S1: heist movie now? Like, it feels so impossible because it's

1014
00:45:16,600 --> 00:45:19,480
S1: all like hacking and like this technology, which is not

1015
00:45:19,480 --> 00:45:21,430
S1: really that exciting to watch.

1016
00:45:21,530 --> 00:45:22,630
S4: It's called Swordfish.

1017
00:45:22,660 --> 00:45:23,590
S2: Came out in 2000.

1018
00:45:23,590 --> 00:45:24,340
S4: It's really good.

1019
00:45:24,940 --> 00:45:27,250
S1: But okay, even then that was like still an era

1020
00:45:27,250 --> 00:45:30,040
S1: where you still had to do some real villainy. These days,

1021
00:45:30,040 --> 00:45:32,980
S1: it's like crypto guys like stealing money from like one

1022
00:45:32,980 --> 00:45:34,510
S1: account and one screen to another.

1023
00:45:34,510 --> 00:45:36,879
S2: Yeah, I know. There's no, like, proper, you know, like

1024
00:45:37,870 --> 00:45:39,250
S2: jumped the desk. Yeah.

1025
00:45:39,700 --> 00:45:41,590
S1: One last question I wanted to ask you guys about

1026
00:45:41,590 --> 00:45:43,180
S1: the gold. We've talked a bit about why we like

1027
00:45:43,180 --> 00:45:46,180
S1: it so much, but it feels a bit different to me,

1028
00:45:46,180 --> 00:45:48,010
S1: to a lot of other shows. And I'm wondering, like,

1029
00:45:48,010 --> 00:45:51,280
S1: why that is? Is it just the combination of really,

1030
00:45:51,280 --> 00:45:54,040
S1: really good actors being given really, really great scripts and

1031
00:45:54,040 --> 00:45:58,680
S1: really great direction? A good tight story. Like it. Maybe

1032
00:45:58,680 --> 00:46:00,660
S1: it's just the fact that, like, we haven't had something

1033
00:46:00,660 --> 00:46:04,620
S1: that feels so well produced and well made in a while.

1034
00:46:04,680 --> 00:46:06,720
S1: Maybe I'm just like, on the deep end on this one,

1035
00:46:06,719 --> 00:46:08,550
S1: but do you guys have any thoughts as to why

1036
00:46:08,550 --> 00:46:09,930
S1: this is hitting a bit different?

1037
00:46:10,290 --> 00:46:12,960
S3: Yeah, I think you're right. I think there are there's

1038
00:46:12,960 --> 00:46:16,740
S3: such a surplus of crime, particularly crime from the BBC,

1039
00:46:16,739 --> 00:46:19,050
S3: and they really do follow a stock standard formula, even

1040
00:46:19,050 --> 00:46:21,780
S3: ones that have been really popular, like the mare of Easttown.

1041
00:46:21,780 --> 00:46:24,150
S3: It was great. And there was the drama in that

1042
00:46:24,150 --> 00:46:26,400
S3: was fantastic. And it wasn't just about the crime, but

1043
00:46:26,400 --> 00:46:28,980
S3: it was still pretty stock standard. I think the combination

1044
00:46:28,980 --> 00:46:31,980
S3: of the insanity of this story, the mixture of high

1045
00:46:31,980 --> 00:46:34,920
S3: and low class, the aesthetics of it, and then the

1046
00:46:34,920 --> 00:46:37,590
S3: pace is kind of relentless as well. I think all

1047
00:46:37,590 --> 00:46:39,840
S3: of those combined, as well as the kind of lack

1048
00:46:39,840 --> 00:46:42,779
S3: of really good crime drama on TV right now, as

1049
00:46:42,780 --> 00:46:45,180
S3: well as just TV in general have kind of all

1050
00:46:45,180 --> 00:46:48,330
S3: created a situation where, yeah, this really does land.

1051
00:46:48,330 --> 00:46:48,600
S4: Of course.

1052
00:46:48,600 --> 00:46:54,660
S1: Summary brings us to our regular segment Impress Your Friends.

1053
00:46:55,110 --> 00:46:56,370
S1: I might go first this time.

1054
00:46:56,580 --> 00:46:57,779
S3: But you've already impressed us.

1055
00:46:57,780 --> 00:46:59,880
S1: With gold. Oh, that's very kind. Yeah, I guess that's

1056
00:46:59,880 --> 00:47:00,299
S1: sort of a.

1057
00:47:00,300 --> 00:47:01,180
S4: Recommendation to.

1058
00:47:01,200 --> 00:47:02,100
S2: Re impress your friends.

1059
00:47:03,450 --> 00:47:05,250
S1: I got two music ones. I think this is our

1060
00:47:05,250 --> 00:47:09,030
S1: first music once since we started doing this segment. The

1061
00:47:09,030 --> 00:47:11,669
S1: first one is an artist who we have mentioned on

1062
00:47:11,670 --> 00:47:15,330
S1: the pod A few weeks ago, country music sensation by

1063
00:47:15,330 --> 00:47:18,480
S1: the name of Zac Bryan went to number one with

1064
00:47:18,480 --> 00:47:21,299
S1: this song with Kacey Musgraves. I remember everything. So a

1065
00:47:21,300 --> 00:47:24,839
S1: month ago he drops his self-titled album. I think it's

1066
00:47:24,840 --> 00:47:27,569
S1: his fourth record. It's very, very long, very, very good.

1067
00:47:28,050 --> 00:47:29,820
S1: And then just like a couple of days ago, he

1068
00:47:29,820 --> 00:47:32,460
S1: backs it up with a five track EP. It's called

1069
00:47:32,460 --> 00:47:36,270
S1: Boys of Faith. It's really great collaborations with Bonnie Ver

1070
00:47:36,270 --> 00:47:40,170
S1: and Noah Kahan. It's just like feels like leftover songs

1071
00:47:40,170 --> 00:47:42,930
S1: from the original album. But I kind of like that

1072
00:47:42,930 --> 00:47:46,020
S1: this hip hop mentality of just like dropping stuff when

1073
00:47:46,020 --> 00:47:48,930
S1: it's done mixtapes, EP's, all of that has started to

1074
00:47:48,930 --> 00:47:52,890
S1: bleed into other genres, and it's probably a necessity given

1075
00:47:52,890 --> 00:47:55,589
S1: the way the music landscape works. There's so much out there.

1076
00:47:55,590 --> 00:47:57,390
S1: If you've dropped a big album, you've probably got to

1077
00:47:57,390 --> 00:47:59,819
S1: follow it up to keep momentum. But I really like

1078
00:47:59,820 --> 00:48:01,890
S1: Zac Bryan. His record was one of my favorites of

1079
00:48:01,890 --> 00:48:04,290
S1: the year. It's great to get like this five track

1080
00:48:04,290 --> 00:48:07,500
S1: EP from him as well. And we've just learned this

1081
00:48:07,500 --> 00:48:10,380
S1: week that he is coming to Australia in December to

1082
00:48:10,380 --> 00:48:11,370
S1: place photos here.

1083
00:48:11,670 --> 00:48:12,460
S3: Pretty excited about.

1084
00:48:12,460 --> 00:48:13,050
S4: That very exciting.

1085
00:48:13,080 --> 00:48:13,950
S2: Single show play.

1086
00:48:13,950 --> 00:48:16,920
S1: A single show in Melbourne as part of a Victorian

1087
00:48:16,920 --> 00:48:20,730
S1: Government's program to bring international artists over. But I'm really

1088
00:48:20,730 --> 00:48:23,370
S1: keen to see that one. Zac Bryan Hive We're going

1089
00:48:23,370 --> 00:48:26,700
S1: to be eating this year. My other one very quickly,

1090
00:48:26,700 --> 00:48:30,540
S1: Jorja Smith has released her follow up album. It's called

1091
00:48:30,540 --> 00:48:33,960
S1: Falling or Flying. It's been five years since her debut,

1092
00:48:33,960 --> 00:48:38,730
S1: and this album is like it's not particularly revolutionary or forward.

1093
00:48:38,730 --> 00:48:42,150
S1: She's not reinventing the genre. She is an R&B kind

1094
00:48:42,150 --> 00:48:45,569
S1: of pop singer. It's very simple, stripped back R&B, but

1095
00:48:45,570 --> 00:48:48,060
S1: it's very fun. It's very warm, it's very summery. It's

1096
00:48:48,060 --> 00:48:49,799
S1: kind of album. I think you could just like playing

1097
00:48:49,800 --> 00:48:53,460
S1: full at a house party or at a weekend barbecue.

1098
00:48:53,460 --> 00:48:56,339
S1: Great collab with just one of my favorite British rappers.

1099
00:48:56,340 --> 00:48:58,320
S1: If you're looking for something fun to just play in

1100
00:48:58,320 --> 00:49:00,660
S1: the background, I would recommend folding or flying.

1101
00:49:00,780 --> 00:49:03,359
S3: It is. It's very easy listening. And did you know

1102
00:49:03,360 --> 00:49:06,330
S3: when her first album came out? I interviewed her in

1103
00:49:06,330 --> 00:49:09,990
S3: London in person. We went to a cafe in Daylesford

1104
00:49:09,989 --> 00:49:12,000
S3: and I remember she was wearing this grey hoodie and

1105
00:49:12,000 --> 00:49:13,890
S3: we sat down and the waiter came over and she

1106
00:49:13,890 --> 00:49:15,630
S3: was like, I'll have spirit tea. And I was like,

1107
00:49:15,630 --> 00:49:19,009
S3: Oh my God, we're having tea with, like, vodka in it. No,

1108
00:49:19,020 --> 00:49:21,150
S3: it was not that. Oh, yeah. So I was disappointed.

1109
00:49:21,150 --> 00:49:22,650
S3: But isn't the crazy 1980s?

1110
00:49:23,460 --> 00:49:25,080
S4: Yeah, yeah, the smoking in it.

1111
00:49:25,410 --> 00:49:26,460
S1: You're very cool, Mel.

1112
00:49:26,460 --> 00:49:28,620
S4: I know people say that. Oh, that's very cool.

1113
00:49:28,650 --> 00:49:29,310
S3: Thanks. Us.

1114
00:49:29,310 --> 00:49:31,440
S4: Yeah, you're cool. I mean, she's, I think smells a

1115
00:49:31,440 --> 00:49:33,420
S4: lot of things. Drinking tea with Jorja Smith.

1116
00:49:34,320 --> 00:49:36,150
S2: She's like. She's cool adjacent.

1117
00:49:36,150 --> 00:49:37,710
S1: Well, let's see how quickly you are. What have you

1118
00:49:37,710 --> 00:49:39,030
S1: got for your rec?

1119
00:49:39,030 --> 00:49:41,130
S3: Okay, let me set the scene for you.

1120
00:49:41,160 --> 00:49:41,399
S4: Okay.

1121
00:49:41,969 --> 00:49:45,000
S3: 1610. We're in a colony in the US and it's

1122
00:49:45,000 --> 00:49:49,430
S3: falling apart. There's famine, there's people are turning on each other.

1123
00:49:49,440 --> 00:49:50,640
S1: Sounds like the US right now.

1124
00:49:50,820 --> 00:49:51,960
S4: Yeah, that's bang. Yeah.

1125
00:49:51,960 --> 00:49:56,010
S3: Good. Good relevance to today. And young servant girl, she

1126
00:49:56,010 --> 00:49:58,830
S3: decides to flee the colony and out she heads into

1127
00:49:58,830 --> 00:50:02,550
S3: the woods in a relentless tale of survival and adventure.

1128
00:50:02,550 --> 00:50:05,840
S3: This is Lauren Goff's new novel, The Vaster Wild Book.

1129
00:50:05,880 --> 00:50:06,300
S3: I see.

1130
00:50:06,300 --> 00:50:07,140
S4: It is. You have to imagine.

1131
00:50:07,140 --> 00:50:07,890
S1: All of these things.

1132
00:50:07,890 --> 00:50:09,360
S4: Yeah. I just want to watch them bring you.

1133
00:50:09,360 --> 00:50:10,669
S3: Along with me and actually.

1134
00:50:11,070 --> 00:50:12,899
S2: You like. That was very good. You suck me right in.

1135
00:50:12,900 --> 00:50:15,330
S3: You want on the edge of your seat? Yeah. This

1136
00:50:15,330 --> 00:50:17,910
S3: is her new one. It's really good. The language is

1137
00:50:17,910 --> 00:50:21,150
S3: so visceral that you kind of almost feel hungry yourself.

1138
00:50:21,390 --> 00:50:24,930
S3: It is hurtling along at a breakneck pace. Lauren Groff

1139
00:50:24,930 --> 00:50:26,970
S3: is probably most well known for Fates and Furies, which

1140
00:50:26,969 --> 00:50:29,760
S3: was Obama was a huge fan of it. It was

1141
00:50:29,760 --> 00:50:32,400
S3: more of a domestic drama. And then in her last

1142
00:50:32,400 --> 00:50:35,670
S3: book before this one, which was called The Matrix, that

1143
00:50:35,670 --> 00:50:38,130
S3: was about a medieval nun. So she's kind of turned

1144
00:50:38,130 --> 00:50:40,620
S3: to historical fiction and she's going to do three of

1145
00:50:40,620 --> 00:50:43,410
S3: them all set in different periods, but kind of looking

1146
00:50:43,410 --> 00:50:46,229
S3: at looking at the past. But this one, I think,

1147
00:50:46,230 --> 00:50:47,820
S3: is one to watch and is going to be kind

1148
00:50:47,820 --> 00:50:48,899
S3: of a book of the year.

1149
00:50:49,800 --> 00:50:50,100
S4: Wow.

1150
00:50:50,100 --> 00:50:51,270
S1: Book of the year contender.

1151
00:50:51,270 --> 00:50:52,950
S4: All right. Early prediction. Okay.

1152
00:50:53,310 --> 00:50:54,420
S1: Well, when you say Book of the year, do you

1153
00:50:54,420 --> 00:50:55,590
S1: mean like 2023?

1154
00:50:56,130 --> 00:50:57,060
S4: Yes, for some reason I thought.

1155
00:50:57,270 --> 00:50:58,140
S1: Do my financial year?

1156
00:50:58,469 --> 00:51:02,580
S4: No, sorry. Was I unclear? Not an early prediction.

1157
00:51:02,580 --> 00:51:03,390
S1: A very sensible.

1158
00:51:03,390 --> 00:51:04,470
S4: Time to make this prediction.

1159
00:51:05,340 --> 00:51:06,900
S1: And I'm not sure why. I thought books of the

1160
00:51:06,900 --> 00:51:07,230
S1: year were.

1161
00:51:07,230 --> 00:51:09,450
S4: Done on a financial basis.

1162
00:51:09,660 --> 00:51:11,040
S2: Do you think you or I will ever do a

1163
00:51:11,040 --> 00:51:12,419
S2: book recommendation or to be just.

1164
00:51:12,420 --> 00:51:13,170
S4: Like I did?

1165
00:51:13,170 --> 00:51:13,860
S1: One I did with the.

1166
00:51:13,860 --> 00:51:15,810
S4: First one was Killers of the Flower Moon, the book.

1167
00:51:16,110 --> 00:51:17,160
S4: But it's like a book.

1168
00:51:17,160 --> 00:51:17,609
S2: It's a book.

1169
00:51:17,610 --> 00:51:18,319
S4: That's yeah, I.

1170
00:51:18,510 --> 00:51:20,580
S1: Only read books that are going to be movies. I

1171
00:51:20,580 --> 00:51:22,290
S1: don't know. Yeah, I don't like this bit where I'm

1172
00:51:22,290 --> 00:51:24,540
S1: now an idiot who doesn't enjoy reading books.

1173
00:51:24,870 --> 00:51:28,270
S2: Come down here with me. That was very good, Mel.

1174
00:51:28,290 --> 00:51:29,790
S4: What have you got? Thomas? Eight out of ten.

1175
00:51:31,050 --> 00:51:35,460
S2: I like movies. No, I have. I have a film

1176
00:51:35,460 --> 00:51:38,010
S2: which is just hit Netflix. If you don't want to commit, like,

1177
00:51:38,010 --> 00:51:39,600
S2: you know, over four hours of your life. So David

1178
00:51:39,600 --> 00:51:43,109
S2: Beckham then reptile. So we're getting a lot of good

1179
00:51:43,110 --> 00:51:45,750
S2: films coming up on the streamers. And, you know, Hollywood

1180
00:51:45,750 --> 00:51:47,640
S2: is maybe slowly about to kick back into gear. So

1181
00:51:47,640 --> 00:51:49,799
S2: things look promising. But this one is out and available

1182
00:51:49,800 --> 00:51:52,560
S2: for you now. So this is reptile. It's very much

1183
00:51:52,560 --> 00:51:55,740
S2: like a dark and moody crime thriller. It reminds me

1184
00:51:55,739 --> 00:51:57,930
S2: a lot of like season one, True Blood. So kind

1185
00:51:57,930 --> 00:52:00,690
S2: of put yourself in that headspace. It's directed by this guy,

1186
00:52:00,690 --> 00:52:03,390
S2: Grant Singer. So like first time feature film director. But

1187
00:52:03,390 --> 00:52:05,940
S2: you are both and everyone listening out there very familiar

1188
00:52:05,940 --> 00:52:09,690
S2: with his work. He has basically directed every single the

1189
00:52:09,690 --> 00:52:12,870
S2: weekend film clip. He did the film clip for Taylor

1190
00:52:12,870 --> 00:52:15,960
S2: Swift and Zayn. He works with Billie Eilish. He's like,

1191
00:52:15,960 --> 00:52:18,000
S2: you know, one of the top five film directors in

1192
00:52:18,000 --> 00:52:20,190
S2: the world right now. And then he's decided to make

1193
00:52:20,190 --> 00:52:23,580
S2: this transition to feature film. So basically the film stars

1194
00:52:23,580 --> 00:52:27,420
S2: Benicio Del Toro, Alicia Silverstone and Justin Timberlake in what

1195
00:52:27,420 --> 00:52:29,759
S2: is probably an odd sounding cast.

1196
00:52:29,760 --> 00:52:30,180
S4: Yeah.

1197
00:52:30,450 --> 00:52:30,990
S2: But I think.

1198
00:52:30,989 --> 00:52:33,989
S4: Like, I was like, yes, yeah, yeah, exactly.

1199
00:52:34,739 --> 00:52:38,340
S2: And Benicio Del Toro also produces, I think, watching this back,

1200
00:52:38,340 --> 00:52:41,790
S2: it seriously strikes me like Justin Timberlake is. I mean,

1201
00:52:41,790 --> 00:52:44,459
S2: this is not news, but Justin Timberlake is fucking talented, man. Like,

1202
00:52:44,460 --> 00:52:46,080
S2: the guy is like one of the biggest pop stars

1203
00:52:46,080 --> 00:52:48,750
S2: of all time. Looks amazing in a vest. Such a

1204
00:52:48,750 --> 00:52:50,609
S2: good dancer. And he's like a really good actor.

1205
00:52:50,610 --> 00:52:52,739
S1: Yeah, he should have gotten an Oscar first. The Social Network.

1206
00:52:52,739 --> 00:52:55,140
S2: Yeah. So basically the story is like he plays and

1207
00:52:55,140 --> 00:52:56,910
S2: this is like tailor made for him, a creepy real

1208
00:52:56,910 --> 00:52:59,910
S2: estate agent who's like, you know, a bit smarmy, a

1209
00:52:59,910 --> 00:53:03,720
S2: bit gross. Anyway, his wife is murdered in a house.

1210
00:53:03,719 --> 00:53:07,020
S2: One of the houses they're showing all signs point to him.

1211
00:53:07,020 --> 00:53:09,690
S2: Benicio is like a this is set in Maine, in

1212
00:53:09,690 --> 00:53:12,750
S2: the US. Benicio is kind of like this grisly cop

1213
00:53:12,750 --> 00:53:15,930
S2: who's recently moved to the department, left his previous department

1214
00:53:15,930 --> 00:53:20,040
S2: under kind of like internal corruption, you know, cloud. And

1215
00:53:20,040 --> 00:53:21,780
S2: that kind of sets the scene. But the whole thing

1216
00:53:21,780 --> 00:53:25,230
S2: is very, very moody. You're never sure what's going on,

1217
00:53:25,320 --> 00:53:28,440
S2: and you can tell at times it's directed by someone

1218
00:53:28,440 --> 00:53:30,029
S2: who's done a lot of film clips. But I really

1219
00:53:30,030 --> 00:53:32,220
S2: enjoyed it. And yeah, it really is like almost a

1220
00:53:32,219 --> 00:53:35,580
S2: perfect Netflix film for a Saturday afternoon. If it's like

1221
00:53:35,580 --> 00:53:37,680
S2: maybe shit weather and you just want to hang out inside,

1222
00:53:37,680 --> 00:53:40,109
S2: it's really good. I think everyone should give it a crack.

1223
00:53:40,380 --> 00:53:43,080
S1: Yeah, that sounds great. I love Benicio and I didn't

1224
00:53:43,080 --> 00:53:45,989
S1: know that singer the director had been involved in all

1225
00:53:45,989 --> 00:53:50,189
S1: those music, so that's enough for me. And if Timberlake is, like, good.

1226
00:53:50,190 --> 00:53:52,319
S1: If he's still good, this sounds fucking awesome.

1227
00:53:52,320 --> 00:53:54,120
S3: It does. What is the reptile? Because when I saw

1228
00:53:54,120 --> 00:53:55,529
S3: the name that was actually kind of put me off

1229
00:53:55,530 --> 00:53:57,960
S3: a bit. What is the reptile of the name? Well.

1230
00:53:58,830 --> 00:54:00,330
S2: It might be like a okay.

1231
00:54:00,630 --> 00:54:02,580
S1: A spoiler alligator that kills the wife.

1232
00:54:02,580 --> 00:54:03,230
S3: Oh, love that.

1233
00:54:03,600 --> 00:54:04,799
S4: Got down that. Damn. I just don't.

1234
00:54:05,250 --> 00:54:07,470
S2: Know. But it is. It is very good. And yeah,

1235
00:54:07,469 --> 00:54:09,529
S2: I mean, I always think Timberlake hasn't. Was he in

1236
00:54:09,540 --> 00:54:11,370
S2: Snakes in a Plane? Maybe that was his worst film.

1237
00:54:11,910 --> 00:54:13,530
S1: Could not tell you if he was in Snakes.

1238
00:54:13,530 --> 00:54:15,990
S2: On a Plane. Anyway, Justin Timberlake is really talented and

1239
00:54:15,989 --> 00:54:17,010
S2: bank robberies rule.

1240
00:54:17,370 --> 00:54:18,870
S3: You know who else had snakes on a plane?

1241
00:54:18,870 --> 00:54:21,990
S4: Hugo succession. Yeah. True.

1242
00:54:22,110 --> 00:54:23,279
S3: We've ended where we've started.

1243
00:54:23,910 --> 00:54:26,700
S1: Hey, gang. Thank you for that episode. Hopefully next week

1244
00:54:26,700 --> 00:54:30,240
S1: we don't talk about Taylor Swift and the Chiefs.

1245
00:54:30,239 --> 00:54:32,550
S3: But we will be talking about Drew Holiday's trade to

1246
00:54:32,670 --> 00:54:33,630
S3: Boston Semtex.

1247
00:54:34,560 --> 00:54:35,340
S4: Actually, we know what.

1248
00:54:35,340 --> 00:54:36,810
S1: Next week's episode is going to be. It's going to

1249
00:54:36,810 --> 00:54:41,460
S1: be an extravaganza on Killers of the Flower Moon and

1250
00:54:41,460 --> 00:54:44,850
S1: Martin Scorsese's filmography. We're going to go deep. It's gonna

1251
00:54:44,850 --> 00:54:45,480
S1: be a lot of fun.

1252
00:54:45,510 --> 00:54:47,090
UU: See you then. Shout well.

1253
00:54:51,390 --> 00:54:54,720
S1: This episode of The Drop was produced by Kai Wong.

1254
00:54:54,750 --> 00:54:57,660
S1: If you enjoyed listening to today's episode of The drop,

1255
00:54:57,660 --> 00:55:00,210
S1: make sure to follow us in your favorite podcast app.

1256
00:55:00,300 --> 00:55:03,210
S1: Leave us a review or better yet, share the episode

1257
00:55:03,210 --> 00:55:06,419
S1: with a friend. I'm Osman Farooq. See you next week.