1 00:00:01,540 --> 00:00:02,400 S1: You guys good to go. 2 00:00:02,410 --> 00:00:05,500 S2: Let's do it one final time. Let's fucking get. 3 00:00:05,500 --> 00:00:05,740 S3: It. 4 00:00:07,480 --> 00:00:08,100 S4: All right. 5 00:00:12,539 --> 00:00:15,990 S5: It's me. If we want to hold on to this company. 6 00:00:15,990 --> 00:00:18,750 S5: For us. For my kids. For yours. 7 00:00:18,750 --> 00:00:21,329 S6: It's me. Guess who Kendall thinks it should be. It's 8 00:00:21,329 --> 00:00:23,080 S6: going to blow your fucking mind. 9 00:00:23,100 --> 00:00:25,860 S7: You get the bauble. Congratulations. 10 00:00:26,250 --> 00:00:30,000 S8: 76. We sold to Gojo. You don't have it. 11 00:00:30,570 --> 00:00:32,129 S9: What's the return policy on this, by the way? 12 00:00:34,470 --> 00:00:36,839 S10: Translate. Thank you. Okay. Thank you. 13 00:00:39,510 --> 00:00:43,979 S1: Welcome to the Drop and our Succession Recap podcast. I'm 14 00:00:43,979 --> 00:00:47,850 S1: Osman Farooqi. I'm here with Thomas Mitchell and Mel Cambrai 15 00:00:47,850 --> 00:00:53,790 S1: to break down the final ever episode of Succession. I 16 00:00:53,790 --> 00:00:56,880 S1: think I need to talk to my therapist and my parents. 17 00:00:56,880 --> 00:01:00,450 S1: I am not sure in what order to do that. 18 00:01:00,450 --> 00:01:02,580 S1: This is this is for a bit of context for 19 00:01:02,580 --> 00:01:05,130 S1: this conversation. This is the first time for us since 20 00:01:05,130 --> 00:01:08,009 S1: episode three when Logan died that we did not receive 21 00:01:08,010 --> 00:01:10,470 S1: the episode ahead of time, which means we've pretty much 22 00:01:10,470 --> 00:01:14,970 S1: just finished watching it. We're sitting down almost straight away 23 00:01:14,970 --> 00:01:17,010 S1: and there's a lot to process, so things might get 24 00:01:17,010 --> 00:01:20,550 S1: a bit loose compared to previous episodes. But Thomas and Mel, 25 00:01:20,550 --> 00:01:23,009 S1: how's the blood pressure? How are you guys feeling about 26 00:01:23,010 --> 00:01:23,820 S1: things right now? 27 00:01:23,819 --> 00:01:25,470 S2: Yeah, I mean, I think I'm in the middle of 28 00:01:25,470 --> 00:01:26,310 S2: a panic attack. 29 00:01:26,310 --> 00:01:27,530 S1: You look very stressed. Yeah. 30 00:01:27,540 --> 00:01:28,620 S11: You got a Kendall vibe? 31 00:01:28,620 --> 00:01:34,100 S2: Yeah, I feel. I just feel so many things. Um, 32 00:01:34,319 --> 00:01:36,509 S2: it's been downstairs, panic, vaping, trying to get my thoughts 33 00:01:36,510 --> 00:01:39,210 S2: in order. But I'm here now. Look, I think I mean, 34 00:01:39,209 --> 00:01:42,630 S2: I guess very top line. It was an amazing finale. 35 00:01:42,630 --> 00:01:46,500 S2: Like the show did itself justice. So for that, I'm 36 00:01:46,500 --> 00:01:49,930 S2: very glad. Yeah, I think that's about all I know 37 00:01:49,980 --> 00:01:50,310 S2: for right now. 38 00:01:50,340 --> 00:01:53,160 S11: Yeah. I feel as though I'm still processing because usually 39 00:01:53,160 --> 00:01:55,500 S11: we do get the episode in advance so we can 40 00:01:55,500 --> 00:01:57,090 S11: watch it a few times and we can talk about. 41 00:01:57,090 --> 00:01:57,960 S1: It, but sleep on it. 42 00:01:57,960 --> 00:02:00,810 S11: Here. We've kind of come from watching the episode straight 43 00:02:00,810 --> 00:02:04,530 S11: to recording and so we're feeling all of the emotions 44 00:02:04,530 --> 00:02:05,910 S11: of it. And I have to say it was fun 45 00:02:05,910 --> 00:02:08,220 S11: watching it with you guys here because whoever would have 46 00:02:08,220 --> 00:02:10,620 S11: passed our meeting room would have just heard us being 47 00:02:10,620 --> 00:02:14,460 S11: like and oh, and then bursting out laughing. And it was. 48 00:02:14,460 --> 00:02:15,900 S1: Actually the first time the three of us had watched 49 00:02:15,900 --> 00:02:17,940 S1: an episode together. Well, I managed to do it for 50 00:02:17,940 --> 00:02:19,410 S1: the for the very last one. 51 00:02:19,410 --> 00:02:20,940 S11: And we had a real cinema vibe. We pulled down 52 00:02:20,940 --> 00:02:21,750 S11: the blinds. 53 00:02:22,320 --> 00:02:23,460 S3: There's even like an intermission where. 54 00:02:23,460 --> 00:02:25,260 S2: We paused it and you booked flights and stuff. It 55 00:02:25,260 --> 00:02:25,680 S2: was good. 56 00:02:25,800 --> 00:02:28,050 S11: Every so often Thomas was like, Stop it, Stop it. 57 00:02:28,050 --> 00:02:29,500 S11: To look at like minute details. 58 00:02:29,500 --> 00:02:31,500 S3: Zoom in, enhance what's going on. 59 00:02:32,190 --> 00:02:35,670 S11: No, but I thought it was it was fantastic. Like 60 00:02:35,669 --> 00:02:40,470 S11: a real genuine Shakespearean tragedy. And Tom Shakespearean. And Tom 61 00:02:40,470 --> 00:02:42,090 S11: says at one point, this is going to be the 62 00:02:42,090 --> 00:02:44,669 S11: family death march. And that's what it was. 63 00:02:44,669 --> 00:02:47,190 S1: Yeah. Thomas, I've just got to say, you said that's 64 00:02:47,190 --> 00:02:48,540 S1: all I can say right now. We have a whole 65 00:02:48,540 --> 00:02:50,010 S1: podcast to get through, so you've got to think about 66 00:02:50,010 --> 00:02:50,490 S1: some other thing. 67 00:02:50,490 --> 00:02:51,960 S3: I'm tapping out. So best of. 68 00:02:51,960 --> 00:02:54,240 S2: Luck to you both as you wrap up this show, 69 00:02:54,240 --> 00:02:55,020 S2: and I've really enjoyed being a. 70 00:02:55,020 --> 00:02:55,380 S3: Part of it. 71 00:02:55,830 --> 00:02:58,230 S11: You can control the socials from now on, correct? 72 00:02:58,230 --> 00:02:59,010 S2: Yeah, I'll be Roman. 73 00:03:00,150 --> 00:03:02,639 S1: Yeah. I got to say, like in terms of how 74 00:03:02,639 --> 00:03:04,710 S1: the season ended, how this episode went, I feel like 75 00:03:04,710 --> 00:03:09,210 S1: I've had some, you know, mild criticisms of the show 76 00:03:09,210 --> 00:03:11,730 S1: this season. We've talked about it before, a bit too 77 00:03:11,730 --> 00:03:14,220 S1: much plot that they weren't sure how to wrap up. 78 00:03:14,790 --> 00:03:16,470 S1: It just kind of felt like some of the episodes 79 00:03:16,470 --> 00:03:19,260 S1: didn't really relate to the next ones that went along. 80 00:03:19,260 --> 00:03:23,220 S1: But this was maybe the best episode of television I've 81 00:03:23,220 --> 00:03:25,770 S1: ever seen. I think immediately after we watched it, we 82 00:03:25,770 --> 00:03:27,150 S1: started talking about who's going to get Emmys. And I 83 00:03:27,150 --> 00:03:28,950 S1: was like, This is 90 minutes long. This is the 84 00:03:28,950 --> 00:03:31,860 S1: feature length production. Give it an Oscar. Give some of 85 00:03:31,860 --> 00:03:38,760 S1: these actors Oscars. It was extraordinary. Not just because it 86 00:03:38,910 --> 00:03:41,340 S1: sort of wrapped up the story that has run across 87 00:03:41,340 --> 00:03:44,760 S1: full seasons, I think so effectively and so powerfully and 88 00:03:44,760 --> 00:03:46,800 S1: so completely in sync with the themes of the show. 89 00:03:46,800 --> 00:03:49,380 S1: But leaving aside all of that expectation and the weight 90 00:03:49,380 --> 00:03:51,870 S1: of how do you finish a show, it was actually 91 00:03:51,870 --> 00:03:55,500 S1: just so entertaining and interesting and dynamic and like the 92 00:03:55,500 --> 00:03:58,170 S1: pace was breakneck. Like we had to pause it because 93 00:03:58,170 --> 00:03:59,520 S1: we were getting stressed out watching it. 94 00:03:59,520 --> 00:04:02,160 S2: Yeah, the pace was amazing and it never felt like 95 00:04:02,160 --> 00:04:05,130 S2: force or anything. Like when it all begins to kind 96 00:04:05,130 --> 00:04:06,630 S2: of I guess we'll get into it in a minute, 97 00:04:06,630 --> 00:04:09,240 S2: but kick into gear like it was proper, like you 98 00:04:09,240 --> 00:04:11,370 S2: wanted to get. I wanted to stand to watch it. 99 00:04:11,370 --> 00:04:14,990 S2: Like I just had like, nervous energy that couldn't, you know, 100 00:04:15,000 --> 00:04:15,270 S2: be There. 101 00:04:15,270 --> 00:04:17,219 S1: Were moments where you were speechless. Like there was a 102 00:04:17,220 --> 00:04:20,070 S1: bit where because you've been a big advocate for Lawrence 103 00:04:20,100 --> 00:04:22,830 S1: Yi on the show The Volta Guy. And when his 104 00:04:22,830 --> 00:04:25,860 S1: name came up, we both like, we all pointed at 105 00:04:25,860 --> 00:04:27,180 S1: the screen and we all pointed at you and your 106 00:04:27,180 --> 00:04:29,190 S1: mouth was open and you couldn't talk. 107 00:04:29,190 --> 00:04:30,690 S3: Yeah, jaw on the floor. 108 00:04:31,770 --> 00:04:34,350 S2: That was like, I'm sad we didn't get to see Lawrence. 109 00:04:34,350 --> 00:04:36,090 S2: But yeah, I have been picking that, that he was 110 00:04:36,089 --> 00:04:37,859 S2: going to come back. And then they mentioned him like 111 00:04:37,860 --> 00:04:39,000 S2: ten times in the episode. 112 00:04:39,000 --> 00:04:41,130 S3: It was mentioned so many. He was the real star 113 00:04:41,130 --> 00:04:41,460 S3: of it. 114 00:04:41,460 --> 00:04:43,320 S2: I know it is a rare thing for me to 115 00:04:43,320 --> 00:04:44,800 S2: be rendered speechless, but I. 116 00:04:44,800 --> 00:04:46,050 S11: Oh, right. Oh, correct. 117 00:04:46,650 --> 00:04:49,320 S2: Also. And I was all of those things. But yeah, 118 00:04:49,320 --> 00:04:52,349 S2: it was it was pretty incredible. And just yeah, like 119 00:04:52,350 --> 00:04:54,030 S2: I think that was my biggest fear going into it 120 00:04:54,029 --> 00:04:55,530 S2: was the loose ends. I said it last week, like 121 00:04:55,529 --> 00:04:57,750 S2: so many people online were concerned about, Oh my God, 122 00:04:57,750 --> 00:05:00,390 S2: there's so much to cover. And it's just like nothing, 123 00:05:00,390 --> 00:05:03,150 S2: you know, that I can tell in this initial like, 124 00:05:03,150 --> 00:05:04,830 S2: you know, hour. Or is it after watching it was 125 00:05:04,830 --> 00:05:07,380 S2: really left hanging in the open. It just did such 126 00:05:07,380 --> 00:05:11,220 S2: a good job. It yeah, everything felt right and fitting. 127 00:05:11,220 --> 00:05:13,140 S11: Yeah. And I think it managed to give the show 128 00:05:13,140 --> 00:05:16,770 S11: closure without it feeling forced or kind of fairytale esque 129 00:05:16,770 --> 00:05:19,349 S11: in the level of closure. It wasn't too ambiguous, it 130 00:05:19,350 --> 00:05:22,380 S11: wasn't too settled. It struck that balance really correctly. 131 00:05:22,380 --> 00:05:24,419 S1: To me. It was like like we talk a lot 132 00:05:24,420 --> 00:05:27,300 S1: about the final episode of The Sopranos, which just famously 133 00:05:27,300 --> 00:05:29,580 S1: kind of just cuts to black halfway through a scene 134 00:05:29,580 --> 00:05:34,169 S1: and leaves everything so ambiguous. This reminded me of a 135 00:05:34,170 --> 00:05:38,130 S1: more sophisticated way of doing that, where this was, on 136 00:05:38,130 --> 00:05:40,580 S1: one hand, like a. End to this show. But it 137 00:05:40,580 --> 00:05:42,710 S1: could have there could be another episode. There could have 138 00:05:42,710 --> 00:05:44,930 S1: been another scene that could have been another season. That 139 00:05:44,930 --> 00:05:47,930 S1: could have been another five seasons. And so you just 140 00:05:47,930 --> 00:05:50,870 S1: kind of it's like the camera just turns away from 141 00:05:50,870 --> 00:05:53,089 S1: these characters. We know that their lives are going to 142 00:05:53,089 --> 00:05:55,700 S1: move forward in some way. It hasn't ended them. It 143 00:05:55,700 --> 00:05:58,610 S1: hasn't killed them off it. It hasn't destroyed what the 144 00:05:58,610 --> 00:06:00,860 S1: show's built up of them in the past four years. 145 00:06:00,860 --> 00:06:03,410 S1: But it also feels so satisfying to leave them at 146 00:06:03,410 --> 00:06:05,419 S1: this point. And I think when we talk about what 147 00:06:05,420 --> 00:06:09,230 S1: makes a good or bad finale of a TV show, 148 00:06:09,500 --> 00:06:11,719 S1: it made me realize that's what makes a good a 149 00:06:11,720 --> 00:06:14,840 S1: bad finale is a sense of closure, but not doing 150 00:06:14,839 --> 00:06:18,740 S1: it in a way where you literally, like, ameliorate the characters. 151 00:06:18,740 --> 00:06:20,630 S11: Yeah. And I think of some of the more recent 152 00:06:20,630 --> 00:06:24,229 S11: finales like Killing Eve, where, you know, the two main 153 00:06:24,230 --> 00:06:27,860 S11: characters finally get together Eve and La Villanelle and then 154 00:06:27,860 --> 00:06:31,850 S11: it ends. Spoiler alert with Villanelle being shot dead as 155 00:06:31,850 --> 00:06:34,580 S11: opposed to something like Better Call Saul was another reason. 156 00:06:34,580 --> 00:06:37,220 S11: When I was thinking of where Saul ends up in 157 00:06:37,220 --> 00:06:40,220 S11: jail for the crimes he's committed, where that is an ending. 158 00:06:40,220 --> 00:06:42,740 S11: But it was satisfying without feeling kind of like it 159 00:06:42,740 --> 00:06:44,419 S11: came out of nowhere to end the show. Totally. 160 00:06:44,420 --> 00:06:47,030 S1: And Breaking Bad, where Walter's, like, kind of dying slowly 161 00:06:47,029 --> 00:06:48,169 S1: at the end. It's like, well, that's the end of 162 00:06:48,200 --> 00:06:50,779 S1: that story because he's dead. But the story of these 163 00:06:50,779 --> 00:06:54,860 S1: characters is not really over. We have just had enough 164 00:06:54,860 --> 00:06:56,750 S1: of them. We've seen what we need to see. 165 00:06:56,750 --> 00:06:58,549 S2: Yeah, and I think that's kind of true to what 166 00:06:58,550 --> 00:07:02,390 S2: succession has always been. It's always felt like watching real 167 00:07:02,390 --> 00:07:04,430 S2: people and, you know, like we were reading a piece 168 00:07:04,430 --> 00:07:06,680 S2: this morning that Jesse Armstrong wrote for The Guardian about, 169 00:07:06,680 --> 00:07:08,240 S2: I guess, the start of succession. And originally it was 170 00:07:08,240 --> 00:07:12,590 S2: meant to be a faux documentary about a murdoch style business. 171 00:07:12,590 --> 00:07:15,140 S2: And often it has felt like a documentary, like, you know, 172 00:07:15,230 --> 00:07:18,530 S2: watching Jeremy Strong play. Kendall Like, I honestly forget that 173 00:07:18,530 --> 00:07:21,920 S2: he's an actor. And so it kind of made sense that, yeah, 174 00:07:21,920 --> 00:07:25,190 S2: there was no, you know, neatly tied up story. It 175 00:07:25,190 --> 00:07:27,380 S2: was just like these people's lives who we've been like 176 00:07:27,380 --> 00:07:31,460 S2: excruciatingly putting ourselves through for four seasons. You know, our 177 00:07:31,460 --> 00:07:33,620 S2: journey with them is over and their lives continue. And 178 00:07:33,620 --> 00:07:36,020 S2: it felt like you could almost guess what those next 179 00:07:36,020 --> 00:07:38,540 S2: ten minutes are like for all those people. We just 180 00:07:38,540 --> 00:07:39,590 S2: don't get to see it. Yeah, and we. 181 00:07:39,590 --> 00:07:41,390 S1: Will be doing that at the end of this episode. 182 00:07:41,390 --> 00:07:42,110 S2: Absolutely. Yeah. 183 00:07:42,110 --> 00:07:44,480 S1: Stick around for our predictions of what happens to these 184 00:07:44,480 --> 00:07:48,200 S1: characters lives, even though the cameras are off. This episode 185 00:07:48,200 --> 00:07:50,990 S1: was pretty unique in terms of its structure because it 186 00:07:50,990 --> 00:07:53,900 S1: didn't have like an A plot and various subplots. There 187 00:07:53,900 --> 00:07:56,360 S1: was one storyline I feel like for the first time, 188 00:07:56,360 --> 00:07:59,750 S1: every character was heading in the same direction to this 189 00:07:59,750 --> 00:08:03,020 S1: conclusion of this dramatic boardroom scene. We got to see 190 00:08:03,020 --> 00:08:07,400 S1: everyone in these different locations inch closer and closer to 191 00:08:07,400 --> 00:08:10,550 S1: that sort of big bang confrontation. So I think the 192 00:08:10,550 --> 00:08:12,380 S1: way we talk about this episode makes sense to do 193 00:08:12,380 --> 00:08:14,900 S1: it kind of just scene by scene as the show 194 00:08:14,900 --> 00:08:18,440 S1: progresses narratively. Let's start with the setup. So we got 195 00:08:18,440 --> 00:08:21,800 S1: Kendall and Shiv there and their respective war rooms. Kendall 196 00:08:21,800 --> 00:08:24,260 S1: is on the back foot. He doesn't have the numbers 197 00:08:24,260 --> 00:08:25,850 S1: to stop the Gojo deal. He doesn't even really know 198 00:08:25,850 --> 00:08:28,520 S1: what his brother Roman is going to do for Shiv. 199 00:08:28,550 --> 00:08:30,800 S1: Things are on the surface looking a little bit better. 200 00:08:30,800 --> 00:08:33,650 S1: She's got the numbers. But as we've discussed before on 201 00:08:33,650 --> 00:08:36,710 S1: the show, whenever the show starts with someone in control 202 00:08:36,710 --> 00:08:39,199 S1: and like in charge, you know, they're being set up 203 00:08:39,200 --> 00:08:42,260 S1: for the fall and I wanted to ask you, given 204 00:08:42,260 --> 00:08:44,660 S1: that we now know obviously how it ends, but from 205 00:08:44,660 --> 00:08:47,920 S1: that very first interaction between Shiv and Mattson in this episode, 206 00:08:47,920 --> 00:08:50,420 S1: I kind of got the feeling that things weren't going 207 00:08:50,420 --> 00:08:52,850 S1: to go well, like she was talking so much and 208 00:08:52,850 --> 00:08:55,820 S1: he basically is like nodding and giving her the thumbs up. 209 00:08:55,820 --> 00:08:57,620 S1: I feel like we're being told from that point this 210 00:08:57,620 --> 00:08:59,240 S1: is not going to end well for Shiv, right? 211 00:08:59,240 --> 00:09:02,030 S11: Yeah. And he's in his grey tracksuit pants and he's 212 00:09:02,030 --> 00:09:04,640 S11: like lounging around on the couch and he's chewing gum 213 00:09:04,640 --> 00:09:07,010 S11: as he's speaking to her. And I think you get 214 00:09:07,010 --> 00:09:09,959 S11: this hint of disrespect and this hint of frustration with 215 00:09:09,980 --> 00:09:12,439 S11: Shiv that had actually been building in a in a 216 00:09:12,440 --> 00:09:14,240 S11: few episodes. Like I remember when we saw them at 217 00:09:14,240 --> 00:09:16,610 S11: the funeral scene, he kind of says, oh, hey there 218 00:09:16,610 --> 00:09:18,500 S11: to her. And he doesn't follow her advice. And I 219 00:09:18,500 --> 00:09:21,950 S11: think he's kind of he's getting frustrated with shivs, level 220 00:09:21,950 --> 00:09:24,710 S11: of control and power in the situation. 221 00:09:25,040 --> 00:09:26,930 S2: Yeah, I think it's like a universally known rule that 222 00:09:26,929 --> 00:09:28,490 S2: if someone's like chewing gum when they speak to you, 223 00:09:28,490 --> 00:09:29,300 S2: they're about to fuck you up. 224 00:09:29,300 --> 00:09:30,080 S3: Like everyone knows. 225 00:09:30,080 --> 00:09:32,479 S2: That they're not listening to you. They don't like you anymore. 226 00:09:32,480 --> 00:09:33,870 S11: And like, noisy chewing gum. He wasn't. 227 00:09:34,160 --> 00:09:34,329 S3: Like. 228 00:09:34,670 --> 00:09:37,310 S2: That was an obnoxious chew. Yeah. And also the other 229 00:09:37,309 --> 00:09:39,079 S2: thing I thought that was like, you know, like a 230 00:09:39,080 --> 00:09:41,510 S2: red flag was they're kind of reading. There's obviously been 231 00:09:41,510 --> 00:09:44,869 S2: some kind of like, profile editorial on Mattson in a 232 00:09:44,870 --> 00:09:48,349 S2: US publication, and it's comes complete with a cartoon where 233 00:09:48,350 --> 00:09:50,330 S2: it's like, you know, Will Mattson rule the world? And 234 00:09:50,330 --> 00:09:52,400 S2: he's kind of like almost she's like a puppet master 235 00:09:52,400 --> 00:09:56,240 S2: behind him, like a cartoon of Siobhan Roy. And obviously 236 00:09:56,240 --> 00:09:58,670 S2: Swedes have no sense of humor. And so he's like, 237 00:09:58,670 --> 00:10:00,130 S2: Oh yeah, it's really funny. But you can tell he's like, 238 00:10:00,140 --> 00:10:03,380 S2: not impressed. It was all set up that like, this relationship, 239 00:10:03,380 --> 00:10:06,110 S2: her big relationship that she needs is disintegrating. And you 240 00:10:06,110 --> 00:10:08,900 S2: can tell she maybe clocks it, too. She's trying really 241 00:10:08,900 --> 00:10:10,729 S2: hard to make sure it's all good. But yeah, I 242 00:10:10,730 --> 00:10:12,860 S2: guess that was the first sign that, you know, as 243 00:10:12,860 --> 00:10:15,290 S2: everyone thought perhaps the US was not a lock. 244 00:10:15,290 --> 00:10:17,480 S1: I'm glad. Mel, you brought up the tracksuit as well 245 00:10:17,480 --> 00:10:20,990 S1: because it really reminded me of this point in relationships. 246 00:10:21,620 --> 00:10:24,679 S1: I'm not talking about specific relationships just in general. I 247 00:10:24,679 --> 00:10:26,540 S1: think a lot of people have experiences point where one 248 00:10:26,540 --> 00:10:28,729 S1: person is kind of over it and so they don't 249 00:10:28,730 --> 00:10:30,320 S1: really care about how they look. They're chewing gum. They 250 00:10:30,320 --> 00:10:33,559 S1: don't really care about putting on appearances for the other person, 251 00:10:33,559 --> 00:10:36,140 S1: and the other person either hasn't clocked it or they 252 00:10:36,140 --> 00:10:37,550 S1: have clocked it and don't really know how to deal 253 00:10:37,550 --> 00:10:40,229 S1: with it other than doubling down. It's like, I'll organize this, 254 00:10:40,230 --> 00:10:41,820 S1: I'll do this. I've done all this work. I'll go 255 00:10:41,820 --> 00:10:43,829 S1: and talk to that person. I'll book this holiday. I'll 256 00:10:43,830 --> 00:10:45,240 S1: sort it out. You don't have to worry about it. 257 00:10:45,240 --> 00:10:47,610 S1: You know, the person's just lying on the couch, you know, 258 00:10:47,610 --> 00:10:48,900 S1: without shoes, feet up. 259 00:10:48,900 --> 00:10:51,120 S11: Yeah. I was going to say on the day that 260 00:10:51,120 --> 00:10:53,280 S11: it's the biggest deal of their lives, the fact that 261 00:10:53,280 --> 00:10:55,950 S11: she's all kind of corporate chic and he's just in 262 00:10:55,950 --> 00:10:59,160 S11: his old Trekkie decks, He's so, like, so chill. 263 00:10:59,250 --> 00:11:01,080 S2: He doesn't get his business poncho on until a bit later. 264 00:11:01,080 --> 00:11:01,350 S3: But. 265 00:11:01,679 --> 00:11:03,329 S1: And then the turtleneck and the suit jacket. 266 00:11:03,330 --> 00:11:04,920 S11: Oh, that mustard turtleneck. I have. 267 00:11:04,920 --> 00:11:05,250 S3: Thought. 268 00:11:05,580 --> 00:11:07,140 S1: We got we got we got time to dig into that. 269 00:11:07,140 --> 00:11:09,240 S2: Yeah. There's a bit of a Osborne tribute wardrobe in 270 00:11:09,240 --> 00:11:10,980 S2: the mats. And look, I think like today. Today you're 271 00:11:10,980 --> 00:11:13,070 S2: dressed like Logan Roy, You guys, obviously I realize this 272 00:11:13,070 --> 00:11:14,579 S2: is a podcast. It's not a visual medium. 273 00:11:14,580 --> 00:11:16,390 S1: But, well, it is filmed and put on YouTube. Thomas 274 00:11:16,390 --> 00:11:17,880 S1: Dunno if you know that every episode is filmed in. 275 00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:18,330 S1: I thought that. 276 00:11:18,330 --> 00:11:21,150 S2: Was just for your own personal you Osman is wearing 277 00:11:21,150 --> 00:11:23,850 S2: a I guess we call it like a rust colored. 278 00:11:23,850 --> 00:11:24,630 S11: Burnt orange. 279 00:11:24,630 --> 00:11:26,670 S2: Yeah. Logan Roy style cardigan. 280 00:11:26,670 --> 00:11:28,170 S3: So not. 281 00:11:28,170 --> 00:11:31,710 S1: Deliberate, to be honest, but it's worked out well for 282 00:11:32,070 --> 00:11:32,610 S1: what we're talking about. 283 00:11:32,610 --> 00:11:35,520 S11: Today. And you are the center of this podcast as 284 00:11:35,520 --> 00:11:37,680 S11: as Logan was of the show. Thank you for acknowledging it. 285 00:11:37,679 --> 00:11:40,290 S1: Mel. You still have your job. That's right. Thomas remains 286 00:11:40,290 --> 00:11:43,410 S1: to be seen. Your employment status will be discussed after 287 00:11:43,410 --> 00:11:47,190 S1: we finish this recording, after we have that set up of, 288 00:11:47,460 --> 00:11:49,410 S1: I guess, like laying out the stakes, we get a 289 00:11:49,410 --> 00:11:52,319 S1: very helpful bit of exposition from Shiv telling us the names, 290 00:11:52,320 --> 00:11:54,900 S1: the numbers, where things are at. We then change gears 291 00:11:54,900 --> 00:11:58,290 S1: quite dramatically. We go to a family reunion in Barbados 292 00:11:58,290 --> 00:12:01,290 S1: of all places. I love that. I think that's amazing 293 00:12:01,290 --> 00:12:04,740 S1: and ridiculous that they squeezed in a quick jaunt to 294 00:12:04,740 --> 00:12:07,560 S1: the Caribbean just as the shows that they've done Tuscany, 295 00:12:07,559 --> 00:12:09,540 S1: they've done Southern Europe. Like, why don't we just go 296 00:12:09,540 --> 00:12:12,780 S1: to the Caribbean for for family get together? It was 297 00:12:12,780 --> 00:12:15,420 S1: one of my favorite parts of this episode, not just 298 00:12:15,420 --> 00:12:19,079 S1: because of the location, but I feel like the regression 299 00:12:19,080 --> 00:12:22,199 S1: the siblings went through and the dynamic between their mother 300 00:12:22,200 --> 00:12:26,069 S1: helped unlock so much about where this show ended up. 301 00:12:26,070 --> 00:12:29,339 S1: And like from the second that Shiv and Kendall rock up, 302 00:12:29,340 --> 00:12:33,420 S1: there's like dialogue and costuming choices that are so spectacular, 303 00:12:33,870 --> 00:12:37,559 S1: like Roman wearing the boardshorts and the t shirt. He 304 00:12:37,559 --> 00:12:39,630 S1: looks like a 14 year old. It's like when you 305 00:12:39,630 --> 00:12:41,760 S1: go to a friend's summer house, a whole lot of 306 00:12:41,760 --> 00:12:44,160 S1: house or whatever, and the only clothes there are what 307 00:12:44,160 --> 00:12:45,660 S1: they used to wear 15 years ago and they're a 308 00:12:45,660 --> 00:12:47,370 S1: kid and all of a sudden you look like a 309 00:12:47,370 --> 00:12:51,090 S1: kid as well. And then over time, Kendall and Shiv, 310 00:12:51,090 --> 00:12:54,360 S1: one by one change out of their corporate wear into like, 311 00:12:54,360 --> 00:12:57,540 S1: summer linen. And I found that, like, feel like a 312 00:12:57,540 --> 00:13:00,510 S1: metaphor of them ditching their armor, essentially, and being like, 313 00:13:00,510 --> 00:13:03,780 S1: we're putting away the fighting tools. We're just going to 314 00:13:03,780 --> 00:13:06,030 S1: relax and we're going to be emotionally vulnerable for a 315 00:13:06,030 --> 00:13:09,780 S1: minute and see what happens. The thing that I thought 316 00:13:09,780 --> 00:13:14,610 S1: was the most distressing and sad is that their mother 317 00:13:14,610 --> 00:13:19,200 S1: organizes them to get together. And ostensibly she's taking the 318 00:13:19,200 --> 00:13:23,429 S1: high moral ground. Right. She's saying put away the swords, 319 00:13:23,429 --> 00:13:26,220 S1: don't worry about business up for one night. Your younger 320 00:13:26,220 --> 00:13:28,290 S1: brother's going through a bit of trauma. I had to 321 00:13:28,290 --> 00:13:30,900 S1: patch him back up. Peters put eyedrops in his eyes. 322 00:13:30,900 --> 00:13:34,710 S1: Can we just talk as a family over dinner? And 323 00:13:34,710 --> 00:13:37,949 S1: they all eventually agree. But she's lying to them. She 324 00:13:37,950 --> 00:13:40,620 S1: wasn't there to bring their family together. She brought them 325 00:13:40,620 --> 00:13:42,900 S1: there so her husband and his idiot friend Jonathan. 326 00:13:42,900 --> 00:13:43,320 S3: A business. 327 00:13:43,320 --> 00:13:46,350 S1: Deal. Jonathan Goodrich is my business deal. And it's like 328 00:13:46,350 --> 00:13:48,690 S1: this whole show. We talk about how Logan is this 329 00:13:48,690 --> 00:13:51,480 S1: poisonous influence on their lives. And obviously he is, but 330 00:13:51,480 --> 00:13:53,940 S1: every instance of the mom is the same thing. They 331 00:13:53,940 --> 00:13:55,650 S1: were kind of fucked from every direction. 332 00:13:55,650 --> 00:13:57,660 S11: Yeah. And I have to say, on Romans wardrobe, I 333 00:13:57,660 --> 00:14:00,260 S11: also love that he had those like beaded bracelets as well. 334 00:14:00,370 --> 00:14:01,500 S3: Where did they come from? It's like on. 335 00:14:01,500 --> 00:14:04,950 S11: The super relaxed by just living the Barbados dream here. 336 00:14:05,820 --> 00:14:08,250 S11: But yeah, I completely agree with you. I thought the 337 00:14:08,250 --> 00:14:12,449 S11: whole idea of this family holiday gone awry was so 338 00:14:12,450 --> 00:14:16,020 S11: well done. And at moments there was kind of a hopefulness, 339 00:14:16,020 --> 00:14:17,730 S11: like maybe this is what it all could have been 340 00:14:17,730 --> 00:14:19,230 S11: like when they were getting on in the kitchen, when 341 00:14:19,230 --> 00:14:21,240 S11: they were all going swimming. Maybe they could have had 342 00:14:21,240 --> 00:14:24,930 S11: this sibling relationship. But then it's always undercut by this 343 00:14:24,930 --> 00:14:27,390 S11: darkness of them turning on at each other. So even 344 00:14:27,390 --> 00:14:29,100 S11: though for a moment this is the lives they could 345 00:14:29,100 --> 00:14:32,280 S11: have led immediately, they're at each other's throats again. 346 00:14:32,280 --> 00:14:34,500 S1: Yeah. How'd you find the summer getaway, Thomas? 347 00:14:34,500 --> 00:14:37,240 S2: Yeah, I enjoyed it. Yeah. I also agree that, like, 348 00:14:37,260 --> 00:14:38,700 S2: I just feel like these guys at this point a lot. 349 00:14:38,700 --> 00:14:40,770 S2: Where else can we quickly go on holidays before this show. 350 00:14:40,770 --> 00:14:41,700 S3: Wraps up And we all. 351 00:14:41,700 --> 00:14:42,720 S2: Have like maybe 12 months of. 352 00:14:42,720 --> 00:14:43,170 S3: No work? 353 00:14:43,170 --> 00:14:46,380 S2: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And again, agree on Roman. Like it 354 00:14:46,380 --> 00:14:47,700 S2: had that vibe of like when you go to a 355 00:14:47,700 --> 00:14:50,100 S2: friend's house and you have to borrow their bodies and stuff. 356 00:14:50,100 --> 00:14:51,990 S2: Like you just feel awkward and the clothes are kind 357 00:14:51,990 --> 00:14:55,230 S2: of like wearing you. Yeah. Um, it was a little 358 00:14:55,230 --> 00:14:58,230 S2: bit heartbreaking to see that regression, like when, you know, 359 00:14:58,380 --> 00:15:02,640 S2: they obviously decide between them what's going to happen. And Kendall, again, 360 00:15:02,640 --> 00:15:05,400 S2: this is ground that we really like, retrace and retrace, 361 00:15:05,400 --> 00:15:07,770 S2: but essentially Roman is like the swing vote and Kendall 362 00:15:07,770 --> 00:15:09,780 S2: and shiver there to pitch him and they all kind 363 00:15:09,780 --> 00:15:11,490 S2: of go for a night swim. Terrible idea. If anyone 364 00:15:11,490 --> 00:15:14,010 S2: has seen Jaws, you should never swim at night. But 365 00:15:14,010 --> 00:15:16,620 S2: they end up deciding to anoint Kendall and they have 366 00:15:16,620 --> 00:15:18,750 S2: that kind of cutesy scene where they, you know, like 367 00:15:18,780 --> 00:15:20,250 S2: we're anointing the king and you've got to drink this 368 00:15:20,250 --> 00:15:23,340 S2: funny drink with Tabasco and like Peter's special cheese or whatever. 369 00:15:23,520 --> 00:15:25,230 S2: And it was, yeah, it was kind of cute to 370 00:15:25,230 --> 00:15:27,150 S2: see them being really nice with each other, but you 371 00:15:27,270 --> 00:15:30,510 S2: never felt like it was going to last. Like, that's 372 00:15:30,510 --> 00:15:33,330 S2: the problem with these people in succession. Like any time 373 00:15:33,330 --> 00:15:35,940 S2: you get a glimpse of something maybe real or something 374 00:15:35,940 --> 00:15:40,180 S2: maybe really human, it's just you. Know the world they 375 00:15:40,180 --> 00:15:42,190 S2: exist in and the way they've been brought up makes 376 00:15:42,190 --> 00:15:45,630 S2: it impossible for that to be a long lasting thing. 377 00:15:45,640 --> 00:15:47,440 S11: And I have to say that the whole family holiday, 378 00:15:47,440 --> 00:15:49,480 S11: like when they were on the jetty and they've all 379 00:15:49,480 --> 00:15:52,600 S11: agreed that Kendall will be the king and Cantor does 380 00:15:52,600 --> 00:15:55,390 S11: this smile. And I think it's actually the first time 381 00:15:55,390 --> 00:15:58,530 S11: I've seen Kendall smile in this entire show. 382 00:15:58,540 --> 00:15:59,890 S3: He's got a natural smile. Teeth. 383 00:15:59,890 --> 00:16:02,890 S1: Yeah, well, that was it. There were two bits to 384 00:16:02,890 --> 00:16:05,740 S1: the kind of like the childlike innocence that I think 385 00:16:05,740 --> 00:16:08,560 S1: created the conditions for them to be able to connect 386 00:16:08,560 --> 00:16:10,810 S1: on that level. Like one is that kitchen scene. And 387 00:16:10,810 --> 00:16:12,970 S1: like you, Thomas, I felt like on one hand it 388 00:16:12,970 --> 00:16:16,480 S1: was so innocent and so ridiculous that you're like, This 389 00:16:16,480 --> 00:16:19,210 S1: is what just normal kids are like when they're young. 390 00:16:19,210 --> 00:16:21,670 S1: And maybe their lives could have been better if they'd 391 00:16:21,670 --> 00:16:24,340 S1: been able to just like, enjoy that without the stress 392 00:16:24,340 --> 00:16:26,320 S1: of their parents. But you know that that's not going 393 00:16:26,320 --> 00:16:28,150 S1: to last it almost a second. They're out of that kitchen. 394 00:16:28,150 --> 00:16:30,970 S1: All the other forces will will pull them in different directions. 395 00:16:30,970 --> 00:16:33,310 S1: But then there is an explicit reference from from Kendall 396 00:16:33,310 --> 00:16:36,280 S1: just before he's anointed, where he says, I was seven 397 00:16:36,280 --> 00:16:38,920 S1: years old, like when dad told me, like, I've been 398 00:16:38,920 --> 00:16:41,470 S1: living with that for seven years and he didn't get 399 00:16:41,470 --> 00:16:44,380 S1: his dad's sign off. He didn't get that that line 400 00:16:44,380 --> 00:16:47,260 S1: that wasn't underlined clearly for him. He never got that satisfaction. 401 00:16:47,260 --> 00:16:50,260 S1: But his siblings saying, you know what, we back you 402 00:16:50,260 --> 00:16:52,570 S1: is probably the next best thing. And it makes sense 403 00:16:52,570 --> 00:16:54,490 S1: that I think his smile was the biggest we've ever 404 00:16:54,490 --> 00:16:55,270 S1: seen before. 405 00:16:55,270 --> 00:16:57,040 S11: He's so happy. And then he's like sitting on the 406 00:16:57,040 --> 00:16:59,080 S11: bench with with a towel around. 407 00:16:59,080 --> 00:16:59,650 S3: Him and. 408 00:16:59,650 --> 00:17:02,530 S11: He's like eating yogurt with a wooden spoon. And he's 409 00:17:02,530 --> 00:17:05,140 S11: like black hat that he usually has is replaced with 410 00:17:05,140 --> 00:17:07,720 S11: this white hat with a cat on it. Like it's 411 00:17:07,720 --> 00:17:08,770 S11: just this Kendall He's like. 412 00:17:08,770 --> 00:17:09,399 S2: Silly Kendall. 413 00:17:09,400 --> 00:17:09,960 S3: Hat. Yeah. 414 00:17:09,970 --> 00:17:12,070 S11: All these dreams have come true. And for this moment, 415 00:17:12,070 --> 00:17:14,620 S11: he's so happy. And he thinks that this thing will 416 00:17:14,619 --> 00:17:17,109 S11: make him so happy. Which is also, I guess, the 417 00:17:17,109 --> 00:17:17,950 S11: tragedy of it. 418 00:17:18,400 --> 00:17:20,919 S1: Yeah, We're going to get to that one. The tipping 419 00:17:20,920 --> 00:17:24,190 S1: point for the siblings, ultimately deciding to to band together 420 00:17:24,190 --> 00:17:28,180 S1: is the reveal that Madison is actually screwing over. Shivani 421 00:17:28,180 --> 00:17:32,679 S1: wants to appoint Tom CEO. That deal that Mattson and 422 00:17:32,680 --> 00:17:35,080 S1: Tom make they do it over dinner and a couple 423 00:17:35,080 --> 00:17:39,880 S1: of vodka shots. I enjoyed that exchange a lot like 424 00:17:39,880 --> 00:17:44,440 S1: most of the Tom Mattson, you know, head to heads. 425 00:17:44,619 --> 00:17:46,870 S1: Tom has been shitting himself and he's just not confident 426 00:17:46,869 --> 00:17:48,900 S1: that he's handled it well even in this episode run 427 00:17:48,940 --> 00:17:50,980 S1: that the Arc Gallery, he's just like, What did I say? 428 00:17:50,980 --> 00:17:54,609 S1: Like the colors go well and Greg's like, Colors go 429 00:17:54,609 --> 00:17:57,100 S1: well together. Like, that's a sentence. 430 00:17:57,609 --> 00:18:01,210 S2: I kind of feel like Tom in every art gallery, though. Yeah, 431 00:18:01,210 --> 00:18:02,890 S2: the colors go well, you guys in your Shakespeare. 432 00:18:04,750 --> 00:18:09,850 S1: Um, but I particularly enjoyed Mattson bringing up Shiv. Like, 433 00:18:09,850 --> 00:18:12,280 S1: I've had this theory for a while that Mattson has 434 00:18:12,280 --> 00:18:17,020 S1: this sexual desire of of all this chemistry that they 435 00:18:17,020 --> 00:18:20,200 S1: have together and him putting that out there to Tom, 436 00:18:20,200 --> 00:18:22,230 S1: I'm really interested in what you guys think about this. 437 00:18:22,240 --> 00:18:26,950 S1: Was he being honest and explaining what the situation was 438 00:18:26,950 --> 00:18:29,980 S1: or was he kind of testing Tom and saying the 439 00:18:29,980 --> 00:18:32,700 S1: woman that you were you are still married to, you 440 00:18:32,710 --> 00:18:35,419 S1: are about to have a child with. I kind of 441 00:18:35,420 --> 00:18:37,450 S1: want to have sex with her. Are you going to 442 00:18:37,450 --> 00:18:39,700 S1: be part of my team or not? Was that a test? Oh, I. 443 00:18:39,700 --> 00:18:41,260 S11: Think it was a test to make sure that Tom 444 00:18:41,260 --> 00:18:44,860 S11: was fully submissive to him, because we know that Mattson 445 00:18:44,859 --> 00:18:47,320 S11: is a bit of a bro. And like when he's 446 00:18:47,320 --> 00:18:50,350 S11: dealing with other men, he often enters this macho ism, 447 00:18:50,350 --> 00:18:52,960 S11: and that's his way of dealing with men in business. 448 00:18:52,960 --> 00:18:54,700 S11: So I think he put it to Tom because if 449 00:18:54,700 --> 00:18:56,650 S11: Tom stood up to him, he would kind of end 450 00:18:56,680 --> 00:18:59,740 S11: the relationship. But the fact that Tom and the relationship 451 00:18:59,740 --> 00:19:02,050 S11: with Tom, not Shiv, the fact that Tom just kind 452 00:19:02,050 --> 00:19:04,419 S11: of bent over and took and instead, of course, you 453 00:19:04,420 --> 00:19:06,760 S11: can desire my wife and covet her and try to 454 00:19:06,760 --> 00:19:09,670 S11: make it happen if the situation arises. That made him 455 00:19:09,670 --> 00:19:11,890 S11: assured that he really was the puppet master. 456 00:19:11,890 --> 00:19:13,810 S1: For you, like I did for Cruise's and whatever else. 457 00:19:13,810 --> 00:19:15,429 S2: Exactly. Like he literally sits there and like, I have 458 00:19:15,430 --> 00:19:18,010 S2: a high tolerance for pain and physical discomfort. And then 459 00:19:18,010 --> 00:19:20,980 S2: Madison basically gives him the ultimate test there. And then, like, 460 00:19:20,980 --> 00:19:23,619 S2: I want to have sex with your pregnant wife and 461 00:19:23,619 --> 00:19:25,870 S2: I probably will. And is that an issue for you? 462 00:19:25,869 --> 00:19:29,500 S2: And Tom says, no, Like, that's just fucking insane that 463 00:19:29,500 --> 00:19:32,430 S2: he says that. But if you're in an enormous, probably 464 00:19:32,440 --> 00:19:38,290 S2: size 12 shoes, then beautiful shoes. Not that he wears shoes, 465 00:19:38,290 --> 00:19:40,750 S2: but like if you're Matt and you're like, Well, I 466 00:19:40,750 --> 00:19:42,250 S2: could not have a better what does he call in 467 00:19:42,250 --> 00:19:44,500 S2: pain sponge then discussing in front of me. I'm like, 468 00:19:44,500 --> 00:19:47,860 S2: he's I'm like fucking him right now. And he's like, 469 00:19:47,859 --> 00:19:49,330 S2: prepared to do it. So like, this is the man 470 00:19:49,330 --> 00:19:51,550 S2: for me to install as a puppet and like I'm 471 00:19:51,550 --> 00:19:52,720 S2: in the US and off we go. 472 00:19:52,900 --> 00:19:54,910 S11: But then I was wondering, what does the show, what 473 00:19:54,910 --> 00:19:56,740 S11: is the show trying to say that someone like Tom, 474 00:19:56,740 --> 00:19:58,810 S11: who she describes as the person who will suck the 475 00:19:58,810 --> 00:20:01,150 S11: biggest dick in the room, like the fact that he 476 00:20:01,150 --> 00:20:03,430 S11: is the one that wins? What does that say about 477 00:20:03,430 --> 00:20:06,250 S11: the people who rise to power? Like it's maybe these 478 00:20:06,250 --> 00:20:08,830 S11: puppets that actually end up on top who are just 479 00:20:08,830 --> 00:20:11,320 S11: willing to do what the person in power wants them 480 00:20:11,320 --> 00:20:11,710 S11: to do. 481 00:20:11,710 --> 00:20:15,040 S1: In in that piece from Jesse Armstrong that Thomas mentioned 482 00:20:15,040 --> 00:20:18,850 S1: earlier that we read, it's extract from this like compendium 483 00:20:18,850 --> 00:20:20,830 S1: that they've put out, which is the scripts of the 484 00:20:20,830 --> 00:20:22,899 S1: first three seasons. So look that up online if you 485 00:20:22,900 --> 00:20:26,950 S1: want more info on it. Jesse talks about characters like 486 00:20:26,950 --> 00:20:29,890 S1: Tom and he says, These are these guys who are 487 00:20:30,160 --> 00:20:33,760 S1: inexplicably around like beautiful, successful women, and you just see 488 00:20:33,760 --> 00:20:37,179 S1: them play this role and manage to suck up and 489 00:20:37,180 --> 00:20:39,590 S1: make the right person feel comfortable. Bullen be willing to 490 00:20:39,590 --> 00:20:42,439 S1: take the hits. And that's how they they succeed. And 491 00:20:42,440 --> 00:20:44,360 S1: I think that has been a part of the show. Like, 492 00:20:44,359 --> 00:20:47,060 S1: I feel like the calls the Franks the Hugo's are 493 00:20:47,060 --> 00:20:49,910 S1: kind of Tom's in 1020 years I think there is 494 00:20:49,910 --> 00:20:53,119 S1: that tier of corporate political operator who is willing to 495 00:20:53,119 --> 00:20:55,879 S1: just sacrifice themselves and their principles to get a bit 496 00:20:55,880 --> 00:20:57,740 S1: of cash, to get a bit of power. Yeah. 497 00:20:57,740 --> 00:21:00,740 S11: I also really liked how thrown Tom was when when 498 00:21:00,740 --> 00:21:02,689 S11: Madsen said to him, What kind of vibe are you? 499 00:21:02,690 --> 00:21:03,050 S3: Like. 500 00:21:03,859 --> 00:21:04,639 S1: What kind of hang? 501 00:21:04,640 --> 00:21:06,889 S11: Yeah, what kind of, hang on, you And I was like, 502 00:21:06,890 --> 00:21:07,909 S11: What would you answer to that. 503 00:21:08,130 --> 00:21:08,570 S3: Sort of put. 504 00:21:08,570 --> 00:21:09,440 S1: Me on the spot like that? 505 00:21:11,180 --> 00:21:11,630 S11: A good one. 506 00:21:12,140 --> 00:21:13,040 S2: A laborious one. 507 00:21:13,040 --> 00:21:14,780 S1: I'd have a fun. I reckon Matt and I would 508 00:21:14,780 --> 00:21:15,170 S1: get along. 509 00:21:15,170 --> 00:21:18,590 S2: Can we please have a chat about Greg using basically 510 00:21:18,590 --> 00:21:20,150 S2: Shazam for Swedish to. 511 00:21:21,020 --> 00:21:21,950 S3: To, to. 512 00:21:21,950 --> 00:21:25,220 S2: Like crack open what is going on in this like episode? 513 00:21:26,359 --> 00:21:28,639 S1: It made me wonder, like so much of what Greg 514 00:21:28,640 --> 00:21:30,859 S1: has been doing this season has been fading Intel from 515 00:21:30,859 --> 00:21:33,170 S1: the Swedish camp to others. And it's like, how did 516 00:21:33,170 --> 00:21:35,570 S1: he build those relationships so quickly? And maybe he didn't. 517 00:21:35,570 --> 00:21:37,939 S1: They just toll. And because you often see him on 518 00:21:37,940 --> 00:21:40,340 S1: his phone and he's partying and dancing, maybe just had 519 00:21:40,340 --> 00:21:41,390 S1: that translation app. 520 00:21:41,540 --> 00:21:43,250 S11: No, I reckon it's all from that wild night out 521 00:21:43,250 --> 00:21:45,899 S11: they had after the election party. Yeah, they remember he was. Yeah. 522 00:21:45,980 --> 00:21:48,250 S11: And he did things he shouldn't have done. Maybe it's 523 00:21:48,260 --> 00:21:50,090 S11: it's bonded there. But also I think it's another one 524 00:21:50,090 --> 00:21:52,430 S11: of those things where Greg just happens to stumble across 525 00:21:52,430 --> 00:21:54,409 S11: information as like a passive player. Yeah, exactly. 526 00:21:54,410 --> 00:21:56,630 S1: No one no one is actually threatened by him. We've 527 00:21:56,630 --> 00:21:59,240 S1: said that before. And so happy to chat even in Swedish, 528 00:21:59,240 --> 00:22:02,180 S1: about explicitly what they're going to do to Shiv before 529 00:22:02,180 --> 00:22:04,580 S1: we get to the ramifications of that, that that sort 530 00:22:04,580 --> 00:22:08,240 S1: of unfolds at Logans Old House where Connor and Willa 531 00:22:08,390 --> 00:22:12,440 S1: are doing this sort of weird auction of Logan's old stuff. 532 00:22:12,830 --> 00:22:15,320 S1: Two things stood out for me from from the Connor 533 00:22:15,320 --> 00:22:17,960 S1: and Willa stuff. One is that I've made the point 534 00:22:17,960 --> 00:22:20,690 S1: that I think that their relationship seems to be the 535 00:22:20,690 --> 00:22:24,620 S1: healthiest on this show because it is transactional and they're 536 00:22:24,619 --> 00:22:26,870 S1: honest about it, and they have very frank conversations about 537 00:22:26,869 --> 00:22:30,530 S1: what each one wants from the other. But in this episode, 538 00:22:30,530 --> 00:22:35,200 S1: which I found to be so. Brutal across the board 539 00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:38,650 S1: where every relationship that you thought there was maybe some 540 00:22:38,650 --> 00:22:41,020 S1: tiny little bit of sinew still binding these things together, 541 00:22:41,020 --> 00:22:43,960 S1: this just cleave that right and a half. Even with 542 00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:47,200 S1: Connor and Willa, it did that, right? Like Willa is 543 00:22:47,200 --> 00:22:50,950 S1: basically saying, Oh, Connor is going to go to Slovenia 544 00:22:50,950 --> 00:22:52,780 S1: and I'm going to go live my hot single girl 545 00:22:52,780 --> 00:22:54,159 S1: life in this mansion here. 546 00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:55,929 S11: And he sorry, I think she said she's going to 547 00:22:55,930 --> 00:22:56,649 S11: be a playwright. 548 00:22:56,650 --> 00:22:58,830 S1: Yeah, Yeah, of course You're going to my place. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry, Mel. 549 00:22:58,850 --> 00:23:02,200 S1: Not trying to undermine her capacity to create art. 550 00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:04,480 S3: Even though the reviews were terrible. Yeah. 551 00:23:04,930 --> 00:23:05,380 S11: Three points. 552 00:23:05,380 --> 00:23:11,830 S1: We love Great, great callback. And then she's so obviously 553 00:23:11,830 --> 00:23:14,890 S1: perturbed when she points out that Menken might not win 554 00:23:14,890 --> 00:23:17,080 S1: and she might have to stick with Connor. So even 555 00:23:17,080 --> 00:23:19,900 S1: that relationship, which was always a bit weird, but like, 556 00:23:19,900 --> 00:23:21,790 S1: they'd seem to have figured it out, is like clearly 557 00:23:21,790 --> 00:23:24,250 S1: not like that reference to the two week itch. Like 558 00:23:24,250 --> 00:23:27,460 S1: this thing you fast forward their situation and in a 559 00:23:27,460 --> 00:23:29,200 S1: couple of weeks, in a couple of months, they're not 560 00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:31,210 S1: going to be in a very healthy situation. I found 561 00:23:31,210 --> 00:23:33,699 S1: that to be really interesting and it reminded me of 562 00:23:33,760 --> 00:23:36,850 S1: something that Jay Smith Cameron, who plays Jerry, said to you, Thomas, 563 00:23:36,850 --> 00:23:40,420 S1: last week, that there's like no sentimentality in this show 564 00:23:40,420 --> 00:23:42,460 S1: at all. And that's kind of obvious, I guess, when 565 00:23:42,460 --> 00:23:44,650 S1: you think about it in that way. Yeah. Willa and Connor, 566 00:23:44,650 --> 00:23:45,969 S1: we're not going to get a happy ending like no 567 00:23:45,970 --> 00:23:49,270 S1: one's getting happy endings here. And that brings me to 568 00:23:49,270 --> 00:23:55,000 S1: the other interesting thing from this particular scene, the video, 569 00:23:55,030 --> 00:23:58,840 S1: the virtual dinner with Logan. It was pretty perfect, but 570 00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:00,369 S1: it was missing something, wasn't it? 571 00:24:00,369 --> 00:24:02,950 S2: Thomas It was. And I made this observation. So thank 572 00:24:02,950 --> 00:24:05,560 S2: you for giving me the platform to share my insights. Yeah, no, 573 00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:07,780 S2: I thought it was really interesting because, like, it was, again, 574 00:24:07,780 --> 00:24:11,679 S2: another kind of off brand warm succession moment and the 575 00:24:11,680 --> 00:24:14,950 S2: kids get like, obviously emotional watching it. You know, Connor 576 00:24:14,950 --> 00:24:17,740 S2: does a funny imitation of Logan doing I'm a Little 577 00:24:17,740 --> 00:24:20,919 S2: Teapot and is it your Kyle sings a song and 578 00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:23,919 S2: Logan recites a poem and it's like it's really beautiful. 579 00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:25,659 S2: And they're all like, laughing. It looks like a really 580 00:24:25,660 --> 00:24:28,210 S2: nice dinner party. I'm sad to have missed it. And like, 581 00:24:28,210 --> 00:24:30,580 S2: the only thing missing was the kids. Like, the kids 582 00:24:30,580 --> 00:24:33,760 S2: weren't there. And it just was kind of telling and 583 00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:37,570 S2: depressing to see like Logan that is probably most warm. 584 00:24:37,570 --> 00:24:40,720 S2: And the family being so close, like when the kids 585 00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:42,700 S2: aren't there and it tells you a lot about, I guess, 586 00:24:42,700 --> 00:24:44,739 S2: where they were. We don't know when this is from. Like, 587 00:24:44,740 --> 00:24:46,810 S2: is it kind of in that portion between season three 588 00:24:46,810 --> 00:24:49,120 S2: and season four where they've had the falling out? Maybe, 589 00:24:49,119 --> 00:24:51,699 S2: but it could really apply to any time because the 590 00:24:51,700 --> 00:24:55,480 S2: kids were basically the bane of his existence and vice versa. 591 00:24:55,480 --> 00:24:57,850 S2: And it was like this weird glimpse into, you know, 592 00:24:57,850 --> 00:25:00,460 S2: maybe what made Logan happy was not being around his 593 00:25:00,460 --> 00:25:01,120 S2: three children. 594 00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:03,700 S11: Or also the kind of family that this system has 595 00:25:03,700 --> 00:25:07,330 S11: forced him to have, like the the corrupted family of 596 00:25:07,330 --> 00:25:08,649 S11: capitalism that is the. 597 00:25:08,650 --> 00:25:09,250 S3: Product. 598 00:25:09,250 --> 00:25:13,600 S1: Yeah, Yeah. Having his employees recite, like, weird, saucy limericks. 599 00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:14,830 S11: But. Carl Beautiful. 600 00:25:14,830 --> 00:25:16,120 S3: Voice absolutely. 601 00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:17,260 S1: Carl gone for the Scottish. 602 00:25:17,260 --> 00:25:18,070 S3: Him I did. 603 00:25:18,070 --> 00:25:18,970 S1: Not see that coming. 604 00:25:18,970 --> 00:25:20,919 S11: I was I did like that On speaking about Connor 605 00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:23,350 S11: and Wheeler. I liked that while the siblings are tearing 606 00:25:23,350 --> 00:25:25,689 S11: each other apart, the three siblings are tearing each other apart. 607 00:25:25,690 --> 00:25:28,630 S11: Connor is also like pulling one over them because he's 608 00:25:28,630 --> 00:25:31,899 S11: already gone around and he's taken Logan's medals like he's 609 00:25:31,900 --> 00:25:33,100 S11: already taken what he wants. 610 00:25:33,109 --> 00:25:33,730 S3: So I have a. 611 00:25:33,730 --> 00:25:37,480 S1: Question about that. What did Logan have medals from? Like, 612 00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:39,130 S1: he was a kid when the war was on. That's 613 00:25:39,130 --> 00:25:41,530 S1: why they sent him to Canada. Did he fight in Vietnam? 614 00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:44,830 S2: No. He actually nearly came fourth in the Olympics. 615 00:25:46,090 --> 00:25:46,540 S3: Do we have. 616 00:25:46,540 --> 00:25:47,250 S1: Any context. 617 00:25:47,260 --> 00:25:48,760 S3: At Logan's medals? I think maybe it. 618 00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:50,320 S2: Could it be like his dad's medals or something like that. 619 00:25:50,950 --> 00:25:53,530 S11: Or like maybe he was given an O&M or something, 620 00:25:53,530 --> 00:25:54,880 S11: whatever their equivalent is. 621 00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:56,109 S3: He's yeah. 622 00:25:56,859 --> 00:25:57,720 S1: Well I mean Rupert. 623 00:25:57,790 --> 00:25:58,640 S3: Murdoch Be. 624 00:25:58,660 --> 00:26:01,030 S11: Yeah he does. Right. Yeah. He could be knighted at 625 00:26:01,030 --> 00:26:01,480 S11: some stage. 626 00:26:01,480 --> 00:26:02,320 S3: And have that. That's a fair. 627 00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:05,530 S1: Point. Yeah, it could be. Okay. All right. Interesting. Sir. Logan. 628 00:26:05,530 --> 00:26:05,950 S11: Roy Logan. 629 00:26:05,950 --> 00:26:09,639 S1: Roy Yeah. So the happy get together a relatively happy 630 00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:13,810 S1: get together at Connor and Willow's house is interrupted because 631 00:26:14,020 --> 00:26:16,180 S1: Shiv and Tom have this confrontation where she basically says 632 00:26:16,180 --> 00:26:20,260 S1: she's changing sides because Madison's going to appoint someone else CEO. 633 00:26:20,260 --> 00:26:23,770 S1: And Tom admits that he is, in fact, the chosen one. 634 00:26:23,770 --> 00:26:27,250 S1: That leads to two of the best scenes I think 635 00:26:27,250 --> 00:26:29,859 S1: the show has ever seen, the first being the fight 636 00:26:29,859 --> 00:26:33,250 S1: between Greg and Tom in the bathroom, them going at it. 637 00:26:33,250 --> 00:26:36,700 S1: We've seen Tom like hurl stuff at Greg before. We've 638 00:26:36,700 --> 00:26:38,800 S1: never seen Greg just like slap him in the face 639 00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:42,070 S1: right away. And Greg's like face there. I was wondering 640 00:26:42,070 --> 00:26:44,860 S1: how these actors managed to do that without cracking up 641 00:26:44,859 --> 00:26:48,820 S1: because their entire relationship has been so comedic. And for 642 00:26:48,820 --> 00:26:52,360 S1: them to be able to, I guess, display that fury 643 00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:54,940 S1: I thought was actually quite, quite impressive. And then right 644 00:26:54,940 --> 00:26:57,670 S1: after that, we have Madison, and I think my favorite 645 00:26:57,670 --> 00:27:00,609 S1: part of this episode right after he's informed that Shiv 646 00:27:00,609 --> 00:27:04,240 S1: is switching sides, she just goes full the Northman Wake 647 00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:08,320 S1: up Zombies. ABBA It's so good. I loved it. 648 00:27:08,920 --> 00:27:11,230 S11: And I love that Ebba like, he's yelling for Ebba, 649 00:27:11,230 --> 00:27:13,810 S11: and then it's like the camera pans and she's just 650 00:27:13,810 --> 00:27:14,950 S11: sitting right there in. 651 00:27:14,950 --> 00:27:16,870 S3: Front of him. She's got him. And here, I mean, 652 00:27:16,900 --> 00:27:17,229 S3: we don't even. 653 00:27:17,230 --> 00:27:18,010 S2: Know what he wanted her. 654 00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:18,190 S3: For. 655 00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:21,010 S2: He's just been harvesting blood or something. But, like, yeah, 656 00:27:21,010 --> 00:27:23,020 S2: it was just like this absolute panic. But I loved 657 00:27:23,020 --> 00:27:25,119 S2: the scene with Greg and Tom because there's always been 658 00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:29,710 S2: this weird, like almost like awkward teen element to their 659 00:27:29,710 --> 00:27:32,080 S2: friendship where they're like, don't really have control of their. 660 00:27:32,160 --> 00:27:34,639 S2: Bodies yet, like as adults or something in there. 661 00:27:34,690 --> 00:27:35,250 S1: I feel a bit. 662 00:27:35,250 --> 00:27:36,240 S3: Uncomfortable in the clothes. 663 00:27:36,420 --> 00:27:39,060 S2: Is very like two kids in the school playground or something, 664 00:27:39,060 --> 00:27:41,400 S2: like awkwardly, like pushing and fighting but not really committing. 665 00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:43,350 S2: And the whole thing was just like a Tom and 666 00:27:43,350 --> 00:27:47,460 S2: Greg perfect capsule of like their awkward relationship and Yeah, 667 00:27:47,460 --> 00:27:49,620 S2: but I guess we saw Greg kind of, you know, 668 00:27:49,619 --> 00:27:51,929 S2: standing up for himself. He's, he's kind of grown to 669 00:27:51,930 --> 00:27:54,720 S2: this evolution. It was, it was hard to watch. 670 00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:56,369 S11: And it was also like quite a lot of physical 671 00:27:56,369 --> 00:28:00,180 S11: fighting in this episode as people kind of regress further 672 00:28:00,180 --> 00:28:02,490 S11: and further because there's this fight. And then there was 673 00:28:02,490 --> 00:28:06,840 S11: obviously Kendall Roman and Shiv and Kendall and Roman get 674 00:28:06,840 --> 00:28:08,760 S11: into a fight and they're pulling at Shiv. Then there's 675 00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:11,790 S11: the hugging scene where there was that moment of physical violence. 676 00:28:11,790 --> 00:28:14,940 S1: Let's get to that because that basically brings us to 677 00:28:14,940 --> 00:28:18,450 S1: the final 30 minutes of this episode, which were all 678 00:28:18,450 --> 00:28:22,080 S1: set in the corporate offices of Waystar, the boardroom scene 679 00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:26,520 S1: and the immediate aftermath of that. I mean, this was 680 00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:29,550 S1: this was so interesting because it felt like the show 681 00:28:29,550 --> 00:28:32,070 S1: going full circle, like I felt like I was back 682 00:28:32,130 --> 00:28:35,100 S1: at season one with this group of people, with Kendall 683 00:28:35,100 --> 00:28:38,340 S1: making the case for why he should be supported and 684 00:28:38,610 --> 00:28:42,120 S1: this lack of certainty and even kind of Roman shifting. 685 00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:44,460 S1: But before we get to the actual vote, let's talk 686 00:28:44,460 --> 00:28:48,030 S1: about a couple of things. Firstly, return of our guy, Stewie. Very, very. 687 00:28:48,150 --> 00:28:50,040 S2: Interesting. Facial hair looks impeccable. 688 00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:52,770 S1: I think him and Kendall, like, I think he you know, 689 00:28:52,770 --> 00:28:55,350 S1: he obviously did vote for Kendall in the end, but 690 00:28:55,350 --> 00:28:57,870 S1: he is a slippery character. And you saw him embrace 691 00:28:57,870 --> 00:29:00,360 S1: Madison at the end. He was playing, I think, both sides. 692 00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:03,390 S1: And I think it was very interesting that Sandy and 693 00:29:03,390 --> 00:29:06,630 S1: Stewie split their votes. That felt very strategic. But to 694 00:29:06,630 --> 00:29:08,940 S1: go back to a thing that you mentioned, Mel, I mean, 695 00:29:08,940 --> 00:29:12,930 S1: the dynamic between Kendall and Roman in the lead up 696 00:29:12,930 --> 00:29:17,210 S1: to this vote. Was probably the part of this episode 697 00:29:17,210 --> 00:29:21,260 S1: that made me feel the most sick, like really sick. 698 00:29:21,260 --> 00:29:24,710 S1: And it was so hard to watch because Roman has 699 00:29:24,710 --> 00:29:28,910 S1: been so emasculated, destroyed, beaten down in the last couple 700 00:29:28,910 --> 00:29:32,900 S1: of episodes. He's so weak. And Kendall, in his pursuit 701 00:29:32,900 --> 00:29:36,560 S1: of power, does not know how to convince him. Using 702 00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:41,209 S1: arguments or support or encouragement. He just fully becomes Logan. 703 00:29:41,210 --> 00:29:43,610 S1: And he does what Logan did to get people onside, 704 00:29:43,610 --> 00:29:47,870 S1: which is to physically and mentally torture them. When Kendall 705 00:29:47,870 --> 00:29:51,200 S1: brought Roman in and started hugging him and Roman is 706 00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:54,260 S1: kind of sobbing and gasping, I took me a while 707 00:29:54,260 --> 00:29:56,360 S1: to realize what was going on. I thought, He's just 708 00:29:56,360 --> 00:29:59,000 S1: sad and he's thinking about Dad. And then you realize 709 00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:02,120 S1: that Kendall is like physically hurting him. He's pressing his 710 00:30:02,120 --> 00:30:05,090 S1: his wound on his face up against his shirt and 711 00:30:05,090 --> 00:30:08,540 S1: opening it and basically making Roman feel so scared, like 712 00:30:08,540 --> 00:30:10,910 S1: he felt with Logan to support him. It was very 713 00:30:10,910 --> 00:30:11,720 S1: hard to watch. 714 00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:14,030 S11: I think I was actually thinking about this and maybe 715 00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:15,230 S11: I need to go back and watch it a few 716 00:30:15,230 --> 00:30:17,870 S11: more times. But then I was wondering if maybe it 717 00:30:17,870 --> 00:30:21,830 S11: was a mercy killing on behalf of Kendall, because Kendall 718 00:30:21,830 --> 00:30:23,870 S11: has said before that Roman doesn't want it. He just 719 00:30:23,870 --> 00:30:26,810 S11: doesn't know how to say no. He doesn't know how 720 00:30:26,810 --> 00:30:29,870 S11: to admit that to himself. So maybe Kendall ripping off 721 00:30:29,870 --> 00:30:32,540 S11: the kind of the Band-Aid and opening the wounds, so 722 00:30:32,540 --> 00:30:35,030 S11: to speak, was his way of helping Roman say, okay, 723 00:30:35,030 --> 00:30:37,700 S11: I don't look okay anymore. I can't do it. Because 724 00:30:37,700 --> 00:30:40,880 S11: after that scene, Roman does say to him, teamwork makes 725 00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:44,600 S11: the dream work. So maybe it was not so much 726 00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:47,540 S11: an act of cruelty as even if it's a kind 727 00:30:47,540 --> 00:30:50,060 S11: of misplaced act of love to be like, It's okay, 728 00:30:50,060 --> 00:30:52,790 S11: step down now. You can't do it anyway. It's mine. 729 00:30:52,970 --> 00:30:55,950 S1: A really interesting defense of physical and emotional abuse in 730 00:30:55,950 --> 00:30:58,520 S1: the relationship, actually. An act of loyalty and love. Interesting. 731 00:30:58,520 --> 00:30:59,180 S3: Interesting. 732 00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:00,350 S1: No, no. Sorry. Right. 733 00:31:00,410 --> 00:31:01,040 S3: It's an interesting. 734 00:31:01,190 --> 00:31:03,990 S2: Well, I actually kind of agree. So. 735 00:31:04,370 --> 00:31:05,090 S3: No, because like. 736 00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:08,960 S2: If you look at the lead into that, like firstly, 737 00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:12,050 S2: I was kind of unsurprisingly on team Kendall because when 738 00:31:12,050 --> 00:31:15,470 S2: Roman's like we've just been through this whole rigmarole in 739 00:31:15,470 --> 00:31:18,470 S2: the Caribbean and then suddenly Roman's like looking in the 740 00:31:18,470 --> 00:31:20,120 S2: mirror being like, Why can't it be me? It's like, Well, 741 00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:22,130 S2: maybe because you cooked it right. So like, you're out 742 00:31:22,130 --> 00:31:24,890 S2: of the running anyway. Like, that's you done. And then 743 00:31:24,890 --> 00:31:26,780 S2: he's looking at the he's like wound and stuff and 744 00:31:26,780 --> 00:31:28,640 S2: he's like, Oh, it looks okay. And he's talking about 745 00:31:28,640 --> 00:31:30,410 S2: the optics and stuff. And then Kendall's like, I would 746 00:31:30,410 --> 00:31:34,880 S2: be equally frustrated and it's like, Well, you know, like. 747 00:31:35,540 --> 00:31:36,620 S11: You have the question. 748 00:31:36,620 --> 00:31:37,670 S3: Yeah, you need to bleep. 749 00:31:37,700 --> 00:31:39,890 S1: Okay. I will say I, I completely agree with that. Like, 750 00:31:39,890 --> 00:31:41,570 S1: I think it was very frustrating. We'll get to Shiv, 751 00:31:41,570 --> 00:31:44,330 S1: we'll definitely get the shiv. But it felt like so 752 00:31:44,330 --> 00:31:46,520 S1: I was so angry. I'm like, You guys just did it. 753 00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:48,770 S1: You've sorted it out. You've got a plan, you've got 754 00:31:48,770 --> 00:31:51,440 S1: the numbers. And the second you're in that room, Roman's like, 755 00:31:51,530 --> 00:31:53,270 S1: I don't really know. Maybe it should be me. And 756 00:31:53,270 --> 00:31:56,300 S1: I think it's completely valid for Kendall to, like, feel 757 00:31:56,300 --> 00:32:00,230 S1: frustrated and angry about that. But in a couple of moments, 758 00:32:00,230 --> 00:32:02,450 S1: in that moment in particular, and then later on where 759 00:32:02,450 --> 00:32:05,510 S1: he gets very physical again, he doesn't seem to have 760 00:32:05,510 --> 00:32:08,540 S1: any tool at his disposal other than like a physical 761 00:32:08,540 --> 00:32:11,180 S1: one to cause physical harm. And I guess that to 762 00:32:11,180 --> 00:32:14,479 S1: me feels like the ultimate like loss for Kendall is 763 00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:18,740 S1: his previous attempts to win this sort of stuff relied 764 00:32:18,740 --> 00:32:21,920 S1: on having like a decent strategy, a good idea, convincing people, 765 00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:24,830 S1: using words. And for the first time, I think in 766 00:32:24,830 --> 00:32:28,280 S1: the show, he just resorted to physicality, which we've only 767 00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:31,770 S1: really ever seen Logan do. And I think that. Was 768 00:32:31,770 --> 00:32:34,830 S1: the ultimate sort of transformation, I think, into a very 769 00:32:34,830 --> 00:32:38,180 S1: dark place. And I think his relationship to his siblings, 770 00:32:38,190 --> 00:32:39,720 S1: I don't think we'll recover from that. 771 00:32:39,720 --> 00:32:41,489 S11: And I like the fact that it took place in 772 00:32:41,490 --> 00:32:44,880 S11: Logan's office as well. And occasionally there were these pans 773 00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:47,340 S11: around the room where you could see these pictures of 774 00:32:47,340 --> 00:32:50,550 S11: Warriors and Logan with past prime ministers. And I actually 775 00:32:50,550 --> 00:32:53,280 S11: think it was maybe a key turning point when Shiv 776 00:32:53,280 --> 00:32:55,410 S11: came in and saw Kendall sitting there. And I think 777 00:32:55,410 --> 00:32:57,420 S11: he had his legs up on the table. And I 778 00:32:57,420 --> 00:32:59,160 S11: think it was that moment of just like you. 779 00:32:59,160 --> 00:33:00,570 S1: Think your dad, you're not dead. Yeah. 780 00:33:00,570 --> 00:33:02,160 S11: And I'm not going to let you pretend to be 781 00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:04,290 S11: dead either. And can we give a shout out to 782 00:33:04,290 --> 00:33:05,340 S11: Dewey as well? 783 00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:06,240 S1: Yeah. Which one was. 784 00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:07,920 S3: Dewey? I think we were. 785 00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:10,020 S11: Watching it, and you were like, Who's Dewey? And we 786 00:33:10,020 --> 00:33:11,720 S11: momentarily told you that it looks. 787 00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:12,030 S3: Younger. 788 00:33:12,390 --> 00:33:14,730 S2: For the finale, but the most hyped TV show on Earth, 789 00:33:14,730 --> 00:33:16,020 S2: they just hired, like, four extras and talked to me. 790 00:33:16,020 --> 00:33:18,630 S1: And we had closed captions on for a moment. And 791 00:33:18,630 --> 00:33:22,110 S1: like at 1.1 of the board members congratulates Mattson and 792 00:33:22,110 --> 00:33:24,420 S1: it's just like Board Member one Yeah. 793 00:33:24,420 --> 00:33:25,560 S3: And I'm like, okay, this. 794 00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:26,220 S1: Is like the. 795 00:33:26,490 --> 00:33:27,030 S3: Most. 796 00:33:27,030 --> 00:33:29,340 S1: Climactic and important sequence of shows ever had. 797 00:33:29,380 --> 00:33:31,140 S2: Yeah, I know. I was like, Yeah, it was good 798 00:33:31,140 --> 00:33:32,310 S2: to see Sonja again. 799 00:33:33,180 --> 00:33:35,880 S11: Like they already have two Sandies do they need Stewie 800 00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:37,410 S11: and Dewey? Like. 801 00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:38,970 S3: Come on. But I guess. 802 00:33:38,970 --> 00:33:40,620 S1: I mean, yeah, I guess that's an element of the 803 00:33:40,620 --> 00:33:43,500 S1: absurdity of the show as well. Like they never take 804 00:33:43,500 --> 00:33:46,080 S1: these things too seriously. It was very funny. Tom was 805 00:33:46,080 --> 00:33:48,630 S1: watching you. You had your spreadsheet open with all the 806 00:33:48,630 --> 00:33:50,520 S1: list of names and what made us pause it a 807 00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:52,650 S1: bunch of times, okay, who's on whose side? I'm like, 808 00:33:52,650 --> 00:33:54,450 S1: Don't explain it to us. They'll explain it to us. Yeah, 809 00:33:54,450 --> 00:33:54,600 S1: but the. 810 00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:56,760 S2: Worst thing was as well, the list was like handwritten. 811 00:33:56,760 --> 00:33:59,200 S2: So it was like, was it like is that Shivani says. 812 00:33:59,220 --> 00:34:00,060 S3: Shivani doesn't. 813 00:34:00,060 --> 00:34:00,720 S2: Say like. 814 00:34:01,320 --> 00:34:04,770 S1: Look, the other significant twist in this, which happened in 815 00:34:04,770 --> 00:34:07,500 S1: the middle of the boardroom vote is we have the numbers. 816 00:34:07,500 --> 00:34:10,410 S1: They're six, six and we're all waiting for Shivani to 817 00:34:10,410 --> 00:34:12,810 S1: tell us what to do. And again, I felt your frustration. 818 00:34:12,810 --> 00:34:16,590 S1: Thomas I'm like, we've just all agreed with what to 819 00:34:16,590 --> 00:34:20,190 S1: do here. What are you so confused about? You've been 820 00:34:20,190 --> 00:34:22,410 S1: screwed over by Madison. That's the other side here. Why 821 00:34:22,410 --> 00:34:25,589 S1: would you support them? That leads to this scene where 822 00:34:25,590 --> 00:34:27,989 S1: the three siblings go into another room and Kendall just 823 00:34:27,989 --> 00:34:31,440 S1: kind of absolutely loses it. Before we discuss his reaction 824 00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:34,410 S1: and perhaps how that sealed his fate, what do we 825 00:34:34,410 --> 00:34:39,480 S1: think was going on? Like what prompted Shiv to flip? Mel, 826 00:34:39,480 --> 00:34:43,350 S1: you mentioned that maybe her seeing Kendall attempt to be 827 00:34:43,350 --> 00:34:45,779 S1: his dad just made her realize this guy doesn't have it. 828 00:34:45,930 --> 00:34:47,340 S1: Do you think that was a big part of it? 829 00:34:47,340 --> 00:34:49,170 S11: I think that was maybe a big part of it. 830 00:34:49,170 --> 00:34:51,300 S11: Maybe there is a level of grief that is playing 831 00:34:51,300 --> 00:34:54,000 S11: into this for for all of them, because whoever if 832 00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:57,779 S11: someone was to take Logan's place at CEO, that's essentially 833 00:34:57,780 --> 00:35:00,270 S11: kind of putting Logan in the past and looking to 834 00:35:00,270 --> 00:35:02,130 S11: a new future for the company. So maybe there's a 835 00:35:02,130 --> 00:35:05,340 S11: level of grief playing into it. But then also, I 836 00:35:05,340 --> 00:35:07,920 S11: got the impression that maybe she was also aware that 837 00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:10,290 S11: if Tom was to take the position of CEO because 838 00:35:10,290 --> 00:35:11,970 S11: she's essentially said, I can't do it, like I'm not 839 00:35:11,969 --> 00:35:13,500 S11: going to do it if it's Madison, I'm not going 840 00:35:13,500 --> 00:35:15,900 S11: to do it if it's my family. But Tom, Tom 841 00:35:15,900 --> 00:35:18,540 S11: can be CEO. And maybe the idea that she would 842 00:35:18,540 --> 00:35:21,330 S11: be Tom's puppet master and also for the future of 843 00:35:21,330 --> 00:35:24,509 S11: her child is playing in her head as well. What do. 844 00:35:24,510 --> 00:35:24,720 S3: You think? 845 00:35:24,719 --> 00:35:27,060 S2: Thomas Yeah, I think this was probably the only moment 846 00:35:27,060 --> 00:35:28,830 S2: of the episode where I was like, This feels a 847 00:35:28,830 --> 00:35:32,549 S2: bit like disappointing and like a trick of TV because, 848 00:35:32,550 --> 00:35:35,370 S2: you know, we've just seen in the previous scene when 849 00:35:35,370 --> 00:35:38,219 S2: she finds out from Tom that he's the one she, 850 00:35:38,219 --> 00:35:40,890 S2: like storms into the room with her brothers and she's like, 851 00:35:40,890 --> 00:35:42,390 S2: I like rope a ball. 852 00:35:42,390 --> 00:35:43,640 S1: She salts the earth with Tom. Yeah. 853 00:35:43,770 --> 00:35:45,210 S2: She's like, This is it. We're going to we're going 854 00:35:45,210 --> 00:35:46,890 S2: to kill him. We're going to crush him. And so 855 00:35:46,890 --> 00:35:49,560 S2: then suddenly to have this, like, weird, you know, like 856 00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:51,960 S2: inner turmoil about what she wants to do just didn't 857 00:35:51,960 --> 00:35:53,430 S2: quite add up to me like it had been set 858 00:35:53,430 --> 00:35:55,500 S2: up that maybe Roman was going to flip. And he's 859 00:35:55,500 --> 00:35:57,990 S2: the second last vote. And he hesitates for a minute 860 00:35:57,989 --> 00:36:00,899 S2: and then he says no and, you know, goes with 861 00:36:00,900 --> 00:36:03,450 S2: with Kendall. And then suddenly Shiv just storms out of 862 00:36:03,450 --> 00:36:05,070 S2: the room. And I just didn't quite add up to 863 00:36:05,070 --> 00:36:07,560 S2: me even taking into account all those things you said, Mel, like, 864 00:36:07,560 --> 00:36:09,870 S2: you know, maybe she's thinking about her future with Tom 865 00:36:09,870 --> 00:36:12,030 S2: and blah, blah, blah. I just still think it felt 866 00:36:12,030 --> 00:36:14,910 S2: like maybe this was a plot device. They needed to 867 00:36:14,910 --> 00:36:18,419 S2: get the final scene to land, which is fine, but 868 00:36:18,420 --> 00:36:20,250 S2: it's not like what you normally expect for succession, and 869 00:36:20,250 --> 00:36:22,560 S2: I think that's probably the only single moment of the 870 00:36:22,560 --> 00:36:26,310 S2: episode was like, Hmm, not great because it just didn't 871 00:36:26,310 --> 00:36:27,660 S2: feel super real to me. 872 00:36:27,780 --> 00:36:29,520 S1: I think so too. I think it felt a bit 873 00:36:29,520 --> 00:36:32,100 S1: unearned and a bit confusing, almost like there was a 874 00:36:32,100 --> 00:36:35,759 S1: scene missing because particularly after the vote, when Tom is 875 00:36:35,760 --> 00:36:39,660 S1: celebrating with Mattson and the the Swedish crew, the Gojo crew, 876 00:36:39,690 --> 00:36:41,790 S1: he says to Shiv, Oh, I've got a car coming 877 00:36:41,790 --> 00:36:44,250 S1: in 20 minutes, like I'll meet you there, which suggests 878 00:36:44,250 --> 00:36:46,830 S1: that they've had an interaction because the last interaction we 879 00:36:46,830 --> 00:36:49,739 S1: saw was her screaming at him and basically saying, this 880 00:36:49,739 --> 00:36:52,440 S1: is the end. Something has happened. They did some deal 881 00:36:52,440 --> 00:36:56,160 S1: or they talked about what the future could be like 882 00:36:56,160 --> 00:36:58,800 S1: if she went back on their side and like, you know. 883 00:36:59,130 --> 00:37:00,030 S3: But is it. 884 00:37:00,030 --> 00:37:02,070 S2: Fair that we don't see such a big scene? No, 885 00:37:02,070 --> 00:37:02,460 S2: I agree with you. 886 00:37:02,460 --> 00:37:03,509 S1: That's what it's going to say. It's like we can 887 00:37:03,510 --> 00:37:05,730 S1: speculate and we can make it make sense, but it 888 00:37:05,730 --> 00:37:08,009 S1: feels like it was a 90 minute episode. Give us 889 00:37:08,010 --> 00:37:10,560 S1: two minutes of Shiv deciding to change sides. 890 00:37:10,590 --> 00:37:12,840 S11: I have to say I loved that photo op moment 891 00:37:12,840 --> 00:37:15,090 S11: at the end after we've all just been through the wars, 892 00:37:15,090 --> 00:37:18,060 S11: we're all exhausted and that it all comes together in 893 00:37:18,060 --> 00:37:21,300 S11: the boardroom with this like, brief moment of Roman signing 894 00:37:21,300 --> 00:37:24,630 S11: it over to to Mattson and everyone like, politely clapping. 895 00:37:24,630 --> 00:37:26,670 S11: And then that's it. It's done. And it's like, Oh 896 00:37:26,670 --> 00:37:28,859 S11: my gosh, we've just been through so much to get 897 00:37:28,860 --> 00:37:30,660 S11: to this moment that is just going to be a. 898 00:37:30,750 --> 00:37:32,060 S11: Little picture in the papers. 899 00:37:32,070 --> 00:37:32,610 S3: I kind of. 900 00:37:32,610 --> 00:37:35,910 S1: Don't really I kind of don't really know what to 901 00:37:35,910 --> 00:37:39,840 S1: say at this point in this discussion because we spent 902 00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:41,670 S1: like we've been talking for a bit about how we 903 00:37:41,670 --> 00:37:43,799 S1: got to this point. But this is like it. This 904 00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:47,160 S1: is the moment where the future CEO is anointed. The 905 00:37:47,160 --> 00:37:49,109 S1: future of the company is locked in and the future 906 00:37:49,110 --> 00:37:54,040 S1: of the children have has been set and signed and. Yeah, 907 00:37:54,050 --> 00:37:56,120 S1: Like it feels like we could spend another hour or 908 00:37:56,120 --> 00:37:59,680 S1: two discussing exactly what the consequences of this decision are. 909 00:37:59,690 --> 00:38:02,030 S1: But was there anything that surprised you guys? 910 00:38:02,239 --> 00:38:05,149 S11: I was wondering whether they might have gone harder on 911 00:38:05,150 --> 00:38:08,270 S11: the siblings, like they might have made them end up 912 00:38:08,270 --> 00:38:10,310 S11: in a worse spot than what they did. Not that 913 00:38:10,310 --> 00:38:12,770 S11: they ended up well. And obviously they've got their families 914 00:38:12,770 --> 00:38:16,130 S11: torn apart. Their relationships are bogus. They're now have lost 915 00:38:16,130 --> 00:38:19,190 S11: the family company because of their infighting, but they didn't 916 00:38:19,190 --> 00:38:23,390 S11: end up catastrophically damaged, did they? And I was wondering 917 00:38:23,390 --> 00:38:26,690 S11: whether Jessie might have gone harder on on them each. 918 00:38:27,080 --> 00:38:28,330 S1: That's interesting. What do you think, Thomas? 919 00:38:28,340 --> 00:38:31,640 S2: Yeah, I think I guess I was maybe caught off 920 00:38:31,640 --> 00:38:35,149 S2: guard by like, I think last episode we predicted where 921 00:38:35,150 --> 00:38:35,840 S2: I predicted. 922 00:38:35,930 --> 00:38:37,580 S1: I mean, yeah, I mean, I think it's fair to 923 00:38:37,580 --> 00:38:39,589 S1: say we've been joking about like, we predicted this. Ha ha. 924 00:38:39,590 --> 00:38:41,000 S1: But you came very close to prediction. 925 00:38:41,000 --> 00:38:42,500 S3: Yeah, I think I predicted that. 926 00:38:42,500 --> 00:38:45,380 S2: Mattsson would ask Shiv and maybe use Tom, and that 927 00:38:45,380 --> 00:38:47,300 S2: would be. But I didn't expect that scene. We haven't 928 00:38:47,480 --> 00:38:49,040 S2: really touched on it yet, but like the scene where 929 00:38:49,040 --> 00:38:53,810 S2: it basically crumbles in again, another really vitriolic child like 930 00:38:53,810 --> 00:38:57,170 S2: fight between the three siblings when after Shiv decides she 931 00:38:57,170 --> 00:38:59,150 S2: wants to change her mind and they gather in this 932 00:38:59,150 --> 00:39:01,160 S2: boardroom in front of everybody, it's a you know, it's 933 00:39:01,160 --> 00:39:05,180 S2: a glass case of emotion and have this really awful fight. 934 00:39:05,180 --> 00:39:08,270 S2: And you can see like Kendall can see his lifelong dream, 935 00:39:08,270 --> 00:39:11,780 S2: which is like literally like a vote away from him 936 00:39:11,780 --> 00:39:14,420 S2: finally being taken away from him. And he just cannot 937 00:39:14,420 --> 00:39:18,380 S2: understand why and neither can I. And he's like falling apart. 938 00:39:18,380 --> 00:39:21,290 S2: And then it just goes to these awful areas where, 939 00:39:21,290 --> 00:39:24,560 S2: you know, Shiv brings up the weight of death and 940 00:39:24,560 --> 00:39:28,370 S2: Roman says horrible things about Kendall's bloodline not being real. 941 00:39:28,370 --> 00:39:30,560 S2: And I guess I didn't really pick that we would 942 00:39:30,560 --> 00:39:32,569 S2: get one more of those really terrible fights that we 943 00:39:32,570 --> 00:39:35,210 S2: had won in the election episode, which was really hard 944 00:39:35,210 --> 00:39:37,190 S2: to watch. And they said mean things to each other, 945 00:39:37,190 --> 00:39:39,140 S2: and I didn't know we'd get one more of those. 946 00:39:39,140 --> 00:39:41,660 S2: And I found that for all the uncomfortable moments in 947 00:39:41,660 --> 00:39:44,060 S2: this episode, I found that like, really just like left 948 00:39:44,060 --> 00:39:46,310 S2: me feeling like a bit breathless at the moment. 949 00:39:46,310 --> 00:39:49,310 S11: Kendall The moment he thinks it's slipping away, he loses 950 00:39:49,310 --> 00:39:50,899 S11: that strong facade. 951 00:39:50,930 --> 00:39:53,390 S3: I'm the eldest boy. Yeah. On the argument. Yeah. 952 00:39:53,390 --> 00:39:56,030 S11: And he just, like, completely wavers and he's like, he 953 00:39:56,030 --> 00:39:58,460 S11: becomes so desperate, he's like, I'm the cog. I'm built 954 00:39:58,460 --> 00:40:01,430 S11: for this machine. He doesn't know or have anything, and 955 00:40:01,430 --> 00:40:05,360 S11: he knows that he doesn't have anything beyond this position. 956 00:40:05,360 --> 00:40:06,920 S11: And so he puts everything into it. 957 00:40:07,100 --> 00:40:09,050 S2: He drops like all the spin and he normally says 958 00:40:09,050 --> 00:40:10,520 S2: about why he should get it. He's just like, This 959 00:40:10,520 --> 00:40:11,690 S2: is why I think I should get it because I'm 960 00:40:11,690 --> 00:40:12,229 S2: the oldest boy. 961 00:40:12,260 --> 00:40:12,710 S3: And he's like. 962 00:40:12,710 --> 00:40:14,089 S11: One step from getting down on his knee and. 963 00:40:14,090 --> 00:40:14,890 S3: Begging. Yeah. 964 00:40:15,160 --> 00:40:17,569 S1: The actually, the other thing that we haven't touched on 965 00:40:17,570 --> 00:40:19,760 S1: yet in terms of a thing that people weren't sure 966 00:40:19,760 --> 00:40:21,620 S1: was going to get brought up or not, was this 967 00:40:21,620 --> 00:40:25,760 S1: question of the waiter's death. And I think like we 968 00:40:25,760 --> 00:40:28,670 S1: actually almost predicted exactly this. We thought that if it 969 00:40:28,670 --> 00:40:30,770 S1: was going to be used, it would be used by Shiv, 970 00:40:30,770 --> 00:40:33,140 S1: but that it wouldn't be this sort of like trump 971 00:40:33,140 --> 00:40:36,140 S1: card that would change things. It would ultimately just drive 972 00:40:36,140 --> 00:40:38,960 S1: a bigger wedge between the siblings. And I think I 973 00:40:38,960 --> 00:40:40,460 S1: think it was an amazing way to deal with it, 974 00:40:40,460 --> 00:40:41,840 S1: which is to bring it up, but not as a 975 00:40:41,840 --> 00:40:44,120 S1: sort of deus ex machina that changes the direction of 976 00:40:44,120 --> 00:40:48,170 S1: the show. But Kendall, denying that it was true is 977 00:40:48,170 --> 00:40:51,739 S1: so interesting because either he was lying in season three 978 00:40:51,739 --> 00:40:54,620 S1: when he told the siblings. And so they think, well, 979 00:40:54,620 --> 00:40:56,540 S1: you made up this story to make us emotionally connect 980 00:40:56,540 --> 00:40:59,570 S1: with you, fuck you, or he's lying to them now, 981 00:40:59,570 --> 00:41:03,230 S1: in which case fuck you. So the death didn't sort 982 00:41:03,230 --> 00:41:06,500 S1: of send Kendall to jail. It didn't really ultimately destroy 983 00:41:06,500 --> 00:41:09,890 S1: his chances of being the CEO or winning the battle 984 00:41:09,890 --> 00:41:13,850 S1: for control of Waystar. But it did destroy whatever kind 985 00:41:13,850 --> 00:41:17,690 S1: of semblance of honesty and good faith he had with 986 00:41:17,690 --> 00:41:20,419 S1: his siblings, which is so interesting. And I think very 987 00:41:20,420 --> 00:41:24,080 S1: few people thought that that's how a significant issue like 988 00:41:24,080 --> 00:41:26,120 S1: a death would fall for this person. 989 00:41:26,120 --> 00:41:29,089 S11: And I also think it shows how bad their relationship 990 00:41:29,090 --> 00:41:32,300 S11: has become because it has been since it happened and 991 00:41:32,300 --> 00:41:35,000 S11: since he told them almost untouchable, like it's too big 992 00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:36,560 S11: for them to. They don't joke about that. They joke 993 00:41:36,560 --> 00:41:39,290 S11: about everything else, but it's this untouchable thing in their lives. 994 00:41:39,290 --> 00:41:41,090 S11: And then for Shiv to bring it out in that 995 00:41:41,090 --> 00:41:43,790 S11: situation and for him to lie about it, it really 996 00:41:43,790 --> 00:41:47,180 S11: shows the degradation of of their relationship. 997 00:41:47,390 --> 00:41:48,979 S2: And the whole thing kind of ends in a way 998 00:41:48,980 --> 00:41:50,390 S2: that I guess makes a lot of sense when you 999 00:41:50,390 --> 00:41:52,730 S2: look at the episode as a whole. Like Shiv ends 1000 00:41:52,730 --> 00:41:56,030 S2: up leaving Roman's like sitting on the boardroom table and like, 1001 00:41:56,030 --> 00:41:59,270 S2: there's a beat where Kendall is completely silent. And then 1002 00:41:59,270 --> 00:42:03,529 S2: again he, he like, starts basically gaming again. He's like, okay, well, 1003 00:42:03,530 --> 00:42:05,480 S2: we can if we. What about we approach Frank and 1004 00:42:05,480 --> 00:42:08,420 S2: Roman's just like, It's over, man. Done, dude, it's over. Like, 1005 00:42:08,540 --> 00:42:12,260 S2: you know, we're bullshit. She's bullshit. I'm bullshit. You're bullshit. Like, 1006 00:42:12,260 --> 00:42:14,600 S2: when nothing. And it's interesting because, like, he had a 1007 00:42:14,600 --> 00:42:17,720 S2: conversation with Shiv on the beach earlier in the episode 1008 00:42:17,719 --> 00:42:20,359 S2: where he says, like, maybe Dad, like Dad really didn't 1009 00:42:20,360 --> 00:42:22,219 S2: want any of us to do this. And it's like, 1010 00:42:22,219 --> 00:42:25,070 S2: in a way, has Roman finally over for the first 1011 00:42:25,070 --> 00:42:27,710 S2: time in like four seasons done what his dad wanted 1012 00:42:27,710 --> 00:42:31,009 S2: him to do, which is like, let none of them 1013 00:42:31,010 --> 00:42:31,520 S2: have it. 1014 00:42:31,520 --> 00:42:33,830 S11: And that's how I when we cut to that shot 1015 00:42:33,830 --> 00:42:36,770 S11: of him having his martini and there was this small 1016 00:42:36,770 --> 00:42:39,410 S11: smile on his face. That's how I interpreted it as, Yeah, 1017 00:42:39,410 --> 00:42:40,080 S11: he's like, free. 1018 00:42:40,160 --> 00:42:41,930 S3: Yeah, He proud of me now, Dad. Yeah. Yeah. 1019 00:42:46,940 --> 00:42:49,160 S1: We will say more about each of these characters and 1020 00:42:49,160 --> 00:42:50,990 S1: where we think they end up a little bit later 1021 00:42:50,989 --> 00:42:55,700 S1: in this episode. But now it's time for our favorite lines. 1022 00:42:55,700 --> 00:42:58,670 S1: And I got to say, this wasn't maybe like Laugh 1023 00:42:58,670 --> 00:43:01,130 S1: Out Loud, the funniest episode of Succession. I feel like 1024 00:43:01,130 --> 00:43:03,650 S1: there were fewer moments that I really wrote down. I 1025 00:43:03,650 --> 00:43:05,480 S1: was like, Oh my God, that was so great. But 1026 00:43:05,480 --> 00:43:07,760 S1: there are a couple of standouts. For me, it was 1027 00:43:07,760 --> 00:43:10,640 S1: the exchange between Kendall and Greg when Greg is sort 1028 00:43:10,640 --> 00:43:12,739 S1: of feeding him the information about Shiv, and Greg is 1029 00:43:12,739 --> 00:43:15,080 S1: like negotiating, which is something he's learned in the last 1030 00:43:15,080 --> 00:43:16,040 S1: couple of years. 1031 00:43:16,040 --> 00:43:18,590 S12: If I give you something incredible, would you give me 1032 00:43:19,100 --> 00:43:20,420 S12: something amazing? 1033 00:43:20,510 --> 00:43:22,580 S1: If I give you something incredible, will you give me 1034 00:43:22,580 --> 00:43:25,969 S1: something amazing? And that sort of flips later when Kendall says, Sure. 1035 00:43:25,969 --> 00:43:28,040 S5: That's why I'm going to give you something incredible. 1036 00:43:28,280 --> 00:43:30,020 S1: It was it was a great moment between the two 1037 00:43:30,020 --> 00:43:32,540 S1: of them. Mel, what have you got? 1038 00:43:32,540 --> 00:43:32,870 S3: Yeah. 1039 00:43:32,870 --> 00:43:34,820 S11: So mine was when the kids were all together, they're 1040 00:43:34,820 --> 00:43:37,129 S11: swimming out in the pontoon, which I was thinking was 1041 00:43:37,130 --> 00:43:39,730 S11: weirdly shot, like a horror scene or something. That whole so. 1042 00:43:39,739 --> 00:43:40,250 S3: Dark. 1043 00:43:40,250 --> 00:43:42,800 S11: Yeah, Yeah. Pontoon moment. And they're talking about the future, 1044 00:43:42,800 --> 00:43:45,800 S11: and they're talking about maybe starting another version of the 1045 00:43:45,800 --> 00:43:49,969 S11: 100 and Roman can take over social media. And Kendall 1046 00:43:49,969 --> 00:43:51,740 S11: says to shiv. 1047 00:43:51,770 --> 00:43:52,100 S3: Like, stop. 1048 00:43:52,100 --> 00:43:55,250 S5: Fucking gloating. You've got your hands on my throat. Yeah. 1049 00:43:55,340 --> 00:43:58,189 S5: So don't be all fucking Joan of Waystar. 1050 00:43:58,280 --> 00:44:00,800 S11: Don't be all fucking Joan of Waystar. And it's a 1051 00:44:00,800 --> 00:44:03,049 S11: great moment. And also, here's a free little fun fact 1052 00:44:03,050 --> 00:44:06,560 S11: for you. Sarah Snook played Joan of Arc at a 1053 00:44:06,560 --> 00:44:08,960 S11: Sydney theatre company production not that long ago. Some of 1054 00:44:08,960 --> 00:44:10,550 S11: us don't just watch TV. Thomas. 1055 00:44:11,989 --> 00:44:13,420 S3: You was coming. Yeah. 1056 00:44:13,430 --> 00:44:15,890 S11: And so I've already seen that there's been heaps of 1057 00:44:16,010 --> 00:44:18,140 S11: tweets of because there was a lot of publicity around 1058 00:44:18,140 --> 00:44:20,510 S11: Sarah Snickers, Joan of Arc dressed as Joan of Arc, right? 1059 00:44:20,630 --> 00:44:22,009 S1: So lots of people are bringing that up. 1060 00:44:22,010 --> 00:44:22,279 S3: Yeah, they're. 1061 00:44:22,280 --> 00:44:24,560 S11: Bringing that out and saying Joan of Waystar. So I 1062 00:44:24,560 --> 00:44:25,910 S11: think she's got a lot of fans. 1063 00:44:26,060 --> 00:44:27,800 S1: Great. Thomas, what about you? 1064 00:44:28,340 --> 00:44:31,010 S2: I think I've given Mattson a few lines of the week, 1065 00:44:31,010 --> 00:44:35,030 S2: so props to him during the kind of Tom interview, 1066 00:44:35,030 --> 00:44:38,989 S2: like singing for his supper situation, Martin says to him. 1067 00:44:39,440 --> 00:44:41,180 S13: So then I was thinking, Well, if I can have 1068 00:44:41,180 --> 00:44:45,529 S13: fucking anyone in the world, why don't I get the 1069 00:44:45,530 --> 00:44:48,410 S13: guy who put the baby inside her instead of the 1070 00:44:48,410 --> 00:44:49,069 S13: baby lady? 1071 00:44:49,070 --> 00:44:50,810 S2: Why don't I get the guy who put the baby 1072 00:44:50,810 --> 00:44:53,899 S2: inside instead of the baby lady? And like, in so 1073 00:44:53,900 --> 00:44:54,530 S2: many ways. 1074 00:44:54,530 --> 00:44:55,190 S3: It's so. 1075 00:44:55,190 --> 00:44:57,770 S2: Offensive and like, you know, for the record. 1076 00:44:57,770 --> 00:44:58,250 S1: Not a fair. 1077 00:44:58,250 --> 00:44:58,610 S3: Question. 1078 00:44:59,180 --> 00:45:01,640 S2: But to, like, sit there opposite this guy and be 1079 00:45:01,640 --> 00:45:05,959 S2: like reduce, you know, him and his wife to just 1080 00:45:05,960 --> 00:45:09,410 S2: like objects and baby makers and, you know, like the 1081 00:45:09,410 --> 00:45:13,010 S2: baby provider. But also he's like just two beats ago said, 1082 00:45:13,010 --> 00:45:14,720 S2: I'm also going to sleep with your wife probably. 1083 00:45:14,840 --> 00:45:16,910 S1: Yeah And an incredible move from him where he starts 1084 00:45:16,910 --> 00:45:19,040 S1: the episode reading that that magazine with the cartoon where 1085 00:45:19,040 --> 00:45:21,380 S1: she was the puppet master. Now he's in charge of 1086 00:45:21,380 --> 00:45:23,990 S1: Tom and Tom has managed to take control of like 1087 00:45:23,989 --> 00:45:27,590 S1: Puppet Master Shiv. So he's orchestrated this quite, quite beautifully 1088 00:45:27,590 --> 00:45:28,340 S1: for himself. 1089 00:45:28,430 --> 00:45:30,440 S11: And he starts in a tracksuit and ends in this, like, 1090 00:45:30,440 --> 00:45:32,000 S11: glorious mustard. 1091 00:45:32,150 --> 00:45:33,080 S3: Yeah, I did say I would come. 1092 00:45:33,080 --> 00:45:33,770 S11: Back to that. Thank you. 1093 00:45:33,950 --> 00:45:35,210 S1: Fits are always incredible. 1094 00:45:35,330 --> 00:45:35,779 S3: Yeah. 1095 00:45:36,140 --> 00:45:38,570 S1: It's been, I think part of what has made the 1096 00:45:38,570 --> 00:45:41,120 S1: season special is not just not just his outfits, but like, 1097 00:45:41,120 --> 00:45:43,580 S1: his whole presence has been extraordinary. 1098 00:45:43,580 --> 00:45:46,520 S11: Yeah, I really think he's injected a breath of fresh 1099 00:45:46,520 --> 00:45:48,710 S11: air into the season and he's a really good contrast 1100 00:45:48,710 --> 00:45:50,780 S11: to the to the siblings. 1101 00:45:55,230 --> 00:45:57,150 S1: Okay. So at the start of this podcast, we had 1102 00:45:57,150 --> 00:45:59,760 S1: to pick a character who was not a major character 1103 00:45:59,760 --> 00:46:02,489 S1: and we had to kind of follow them each episode 1104 00:46:02,489 --> 00:46:05,100 S1: and see where they popped up and we kind of 1105 00:46:05,100 --> 00:46:08,640 S1: just randomly decided to make that Jerry and I feel 1106 00:46:08,640 --> 00:46:10,500 S1: like we were vindicated for it, not only because you 1107 00:46:10,500 --> 00:46:13,170 S1: Thomas got to interview her last week, which is brilliant, 1108 00:46:13,170 --> 00:46:15,210 S1: but she's been the perfect character for. 1109 00:46:15,210 --> 00:46:15,930 S3: This because she has. 1110 00:46:15,930 --> 00:46:18,180 S1: Been does pop up at these really central moments. And 1111 00:46:18,180 --> 00:46:20,549 S1: he as she popped up a couple of times, she 1112 00:46:20,550 --> 00:46:22,720 S1: popped up in the video, as we mentioned at the 1113 00:46:22,739 --> 00:46:26,040 S1: at the virtual dinner party telling that Limerick. And then 1114 00:46:26,040 --> 00:46:27,900 S1: at the end of the episode, as we've been saying 1115 00:46:27,900 --> 00:46:29,790 S1: all along, she is a survivor. She's the cat with 1116 00:46:29,790 --> 00:46:32,730 S1: nine lives. She's back in the center of it. Tom 1117 00:46:32,730 --> 00:46:36,150 S1: wants her at his right hand. Really impressive stuff from Jerry. 1118 00:46:36,150 --> 00:46:38,549 S11: And also in her last moment, she brought Rome in 1119 00:46:38,550 --> 00:46:41,130 S11: such distress because he couldn't even bear the fact of 1120 00:46:41,130 --> 00:46:42,000 S11: her being in the office. 1121 00:46:42,030 --> 00:46:42,419 S3: She was. 1122 00:46:42,420 --> 00:46:44,549 S1: Really the catalyst, right, for Roman kind of flipping. 1123 00:46:44,550 --> 00:46:45,450 S3: Out. Yeah. 1124 00:46:45,450 --> 00:46:48,300 S11: And she was never on Madison's hit list, so she 1125 00:46:48,300 --> 00:46:50,880 S11: always was going to be saved. Yeah, I loved it. 1126 00:46:50,880 --> 00:46:53,640 S11: She was already kind of probably unpacking her office. Yeah, that. 1127 00:46:53,640 --> 00:46:55,290 S2: Was that was a great win for Jerry because I 1128 00:46:55,290 --> 00:46:56,790 S2: love how we got, like, a snippet of Frank and 1129 00:46:56,790 --> 00:46:58,920 S2: Carl where they like, just as Tom's like, you know, 1130 00:46:58,920 --> 00:47:01,770 S2: being anointed and celebrating, they kind of say, like, What 1131 00:47:01,770 --> 00:47:04,560 S2: are you thinking? Golden parachutes. Like, little do they know that, like, 1132 00:47:04,560 --> 00:47:07,200 S2: Tom is planning? Yeah. He's like, their dad don't need them. 1133 00:47:07,200 --> 00:47:08,880 S2: But yeah, immediately he's pretty much like, I want to 1134 00:47:08,880 --> 00:47:11,040 S2: talk to Jerry and like, here we are. What are you, 1135 00:47:11,040 --> 00:47:15,600 S2: like 39 episodes now? And she has proven time and 1136 00:47:15,600 --> 00:47:18,420 S2: time again that she will not be beaten. She just 1137 00:47:18,420 --> 00:47:20,670 S2: like she did it to Logan, she'll probably end up 1138 00:47:20,670 --> 00:47:23,609 S2: doing it to Tom. And. Yeah, like Jerry. Jerry, watch. 1139 00:47:23,610 --> 00:47:25,440 S11: You know, now she's going to have to work overtime 1140 00:47:25,440 --> 00:47:27,540 S11: to try to get Mattson out of the whole blood 1141 00:47:27,540 --> 00:47:28,799 S11: brick situation. 1142 00:47:28,800 --> 00:47:29,790 S3: Like she knows what. 1143 00:47:29,790 --> 00:47:30,630 S1: She's signing up for. 1144 00:47:30,630 --> 00:47:31,110 S3: Yeah. 1145 00:47:31,469 --> 00:47:34,169 S1: In terms of the other two greybeards sort of having 1146 00:47:34,170 --> 00:47:37,080 S1: this chat about the golden parachute they smuggled in, one 1147 00:47:37,080 --> 00:47:39,360 S1: of the most brutal lines insurers ever had. What are 1148 00:47:39,360 --> 00:47:41,819 S1: you thinking? It's like, I think we should have slit 1149 00:47:41,820 --> 00:47:46,800 S1: his throat in the crib. I'm like, that's insane. But 1150 00:47:46,800 --> 00:47:49,230 S1: maybe speaks to, like, the contempt they've sort of had 1151 00:47:49,230 --> 00:47:51,270 S1: for the kids all along, which is they've had to 1152 00:47:51,270 --> 00:47:54,210 S1: play babysitter and uncle to them, but they've just thought 1153 00:47:54,210 --> 00:47:56,130 S1: they were spoiled brats, which is ultimately what they were 1154 00:47:56,130 --> 00:48:02,299 S1: revealed to be. All right. Fun fact corner time and 1155 00:48:02,300 --> 00:48:05,720 S1: Mel you for the very last episode get to be 1156 00:48:05,719 --> 00:48:07,700 S1: in the driver's seat which. 1157 00:48:07,700 --> 00:48:09,380 S2: Is an enormous stitch up. And I just like to 1158 00:48:09,380 --> 00:48:12,590 S2: take this moment to apologize to the listeners that I 1159 00:48:12,590 --> 00:48:14,390 S2: have been knocked off. Fun fact corner. 1160 00:48:14,780 --> 00:48:15,140 S3: You're less. 1161 00:48:15,140 --> 00:48:17,419 S1: Knocked off in more. You were so stressed about what 1162 00:48:17,420 --> 00:48:19,310 S1: to say on this podcast. You disappeared for half an 1163 00:48:19,310 --> 00:48:21,340 S1: hour and so Mel kindly volunteered. 1164 00:48:21,350 --> 00:48:22,820 S3: That is true. Yeah, all that is true. 1165 00:48:22,850 --> 00:48:24,320 S11: Someone had to step up to the plate. Also, I 1166 00:48:24,330 --> 00:48:26,509 S11: like to think this is a reflection of my how 1167 00:48:26,510 --> 00:48:27,379 S11: well I did last week. 1168 00:48:27,380 --> 00:48:31,219 S3: Is detective Detective Mel been promoted to to to fact Mel. 1169 00:48:31,340 --> 00:48:32,030 S11: Fun fact. 1170 00:48:32,030 --> 00:48:33,620 S3: Fun fact. This might have been like. 1171 00:48:33,620 --> 00:48:35,570 S2: Sexy fact corner and you're going to talk about Roman again. 1172 00:48:37,190 --> 00:48:39,080 S3: Sexy dream corner. Yeah. With Mel. 1173 00:48:41,670 --> 00:48:42,900 S2: Roman and I are in the Caribbean. 1174 00:48:44,160 --> 00:48:45,180 S11: But both in linen. 1175 00:48:45,540 --> 00:48:47,100 S3: Okay. What have you got? What have you got? 1176 00:48:47,130 --> 00:48:49,230 S11: What have I got? So we were just talking earlier 1177 00:48:49,230 --> 00:48:51,779 S11: about a meal fit for the King seed, which we 1178 00:48:51,780 --> 00:48:54,240 S11: all absolutely adored. And I went back and watched that. 1179 00:48:54,239 --> 00:48:55,830 S11: And I'd like to let you know some of the 1180 00:48:55,830 --> 00:48:58,350 S11: things that were actually going into that dish that were 1181 00:48:58,350 --> 00:49:02,790 S11: baked beans, yoghurt, Tabasco. There was Peters cheese and Nobby. 1182 00:49:02,790 --> 00:49:03,569 S11: What is Nobby? 1183 00:49:03,690 --> 00:49:05,610 S1: Nobby was frozen bits of the end of bread like 1184 00:49:05,610 --> 00:49:07,680 S1: the the end of the loaf, which is all crusty. 1185 00:49:07,680 --> 00:49:08,120 S3: Yeah. Okay. 1186 00:49:08,130 --> 00:49:08,940 S11: Do you call them not peas? 1187 00:49:08,969 --> 00:49:09,750 S1: No, no. They explained it. 1188 00:49:09,750 --> 00:49:11,370 S3: In the episode. No, they did, but just. No, I 1189 00:49:11,370 --> 00:49:12,360 S3: don't call bits of bread. 1190 00:49:12,360 --> 00:49:12,870 S1: Nobby. 1191 00:49:12,900 --> 00:49:13,380 S3: Okay, great. 1192 00:49:13,590 --> 00:49:16,110 S11: That's a succession. It's some orange juice. There were some 1193 00:49:16,110 --> 00:49:18,330 S11: people in there, some curry powder egg. 1194 00:49:18,870 --> 00:49:19,509 S3: When you're saying all. 1195 00:49:19,530 --> 00:49:22,260 S1: These things, these were real things they put into this blender. 1196 00:49:22,260 --> 00:49:23,350 S3: Yes. Oh, wow. Yeah, yeah. 1197 00:49:23,350 --> 00:49:25,020 S11: Yeah, yeah. This was all on there. I was just 1198 00:49:25,020 --> 00:49:27,120 S11: doing a bit of, like, zooming in on all the. 1199 00:49:27,120 --> 00:49:27,840 S3: Okay, well. 1200 00:49:27,840 --> 00:49:31,560 S11: All the food around it. So as we saw, Kendall 1201 00:49:31,560 --> 00:49:33,750 S11: actually drank this smoothie. 1202 00:49:33,750 --> 00:49:34,380 S1: This is a real thing. 1203 00:49:34,380 --> 00:49:36,810 S11: You drank. Well, yes. And as we know, Jeremy Strong, 1204 00:49:36,810 --> 00:49:40,170 S11: famously a method actor, much mocked for it in in 1205 00:49:40,170 --> 00:49:43,590 S11: actually filming this scene. He did really drink the drink. 1206 00:49:43,590 --> 00:49:45,989 S11: And he had it so often that apparently he went 1207 00:49:45,989 --> 00:49:48,240 S11: outside after they stopped filming and threw up. 1208 00:49:48,600 --> 00:49:49,440 S3: So, I mean, I feel. 1209 00:49:49,440 --> 00:49:50,759 S1: Like throwing up, watching it like I saw you turn 1210 00:49:50,760 --> 00:49:52,470 S1: your head away when he went to drink. 1211 00:49:52,469 --> 00:49:54,030 S11: It. Yeah. And then it ends up all over him. 1212 00:49:54,030 --> 00:49:56,640 S11: So I think that's I know I've been harsh on Kendall, 1213 00:49:56,640 --> 00:49:59,430 S11: but Jeremy Strong, what a stellar performance. 1214 00:49:59,430 --> 00:50:01,739 S2: And you can find the recipe for that on good food, 1215 00:50:01,739 --> 00:50:02,220 S2: which is part. 1216 00:50:02,219 --> 00:50:02,610 S3: Of the. 1217 00:50:03,480 --> 00:50:04,170 S2: Synergy guys. 1218 00:50:04,170 --> 00:50:08,370 S1: So no good food is a great a great brand, 1219 00:50:08,370 --> 00:50:12,270 S1: a great part of the nine Family family. And they 1220 00:50:12,270 --> 00:50:14,340 S1: have great recipes that are much less disgusting. That and 1221 00:50:14,340 --> 00:50:14,820 S1: I encourage everyone. 1222 00:50:14,820 --> 00:50:15,300 S3: To check it out. 1223 00:50:15,300 --> 00:50:16,590 S11: Yeah, Meals fit for kings. 1224 00:50:19,469 --> 00:50:21,210 S1: No. Sarcasm aside, we love good food. 1225 00:50:22,590 --> 00:50:25,649 S3: And you may also keep your job, but I'm getting. 1226 00:50:25,650 --> 00:50:26,700 S2: Stressed. Haven't got my job yet. 1227 00:50:27,900 --> 00:50:30,779 S1: One one little extra fun fact addendum for me. We 1228 00:50:30,780 --> 00:50:32,160 S1: had a fun fact, I think way back at the 1229 00:50:32,160 --> 00:50:35,730 S1: start of this podcast about the name of Tom and 1230 00:50:35,730 --> 00:50:39,390 S1: Shivs Dog Mondale. Mondale got a shout out today in 1231 00:50:39,390 --> 00:50:41,730 S1: the in the Weird kind of poem that Logan recites, 1232 00:50:41,730 --> 00:50:43,800 S1: which is made up of the names of all the 1233 00:50:43,800 --> 00:50:46,500 S1: people who've lost presidential elections. And I love that he 1234 00:50:46,500 --> 00:50:48,690 S1: has a go at Clinton, but he's kind of implying 1235 00:50:48,690 --> 00:50:51,300 S1: that Hillary Clinton was like the worst Clinton But he 1236 00:50:51,300 --> 00:50:53,400 S1: brings up Mondale. So there you go. 1237 00:50:53,400 --> 00:50:54,870 S11: That's and we were saying Mondale is a bit of 1238 00:50:54,870 --> 00:50:57,670 S11: a winner of this episode because his family's back together again. 1239 00:50:57,700 --> 00:50:59,580 S1: That's a good point. Mondale was the winner of this 1240 00:50:59,580 --> 00:51:00,870 S1: episode of Mondale, has not been getting a lot of 1241 00:51:00,870 --> 00:51:03,780 S1: love this season. He was probably quite stressed about his 1242 00:51:03,780 --> 00:51:06,200 S1: parents fighting, but he'll have two parents. 1243 00:51:06,200 --> 00:51:06,630 S3: It's also in. 1244 00:51:06,630 --> 00:51:07,290 S11: That crate. 1245 00:51:07,290 --> 00:51:09,180 S1: Remember? I do remember. No, no. I think a lot 1246 00:51:09,180 --> 00:51:11,160 S1: about Mondale is terrible treatment. And it makes me very 1247 00:51:11,160 --> 00:51:13,890 S1: stressed about this kid that is happening and how it's 1248 00:51:13,890 --> 00:51:21,880 S1: going to be treated. Moving on to winners and losers. 1249 00:51:21,880 --> 00:51:24,010 S1: So obviously, like kind of self-evident, who. 1250 00:51:24,430 --> 00:51:25,390 S14: Who won and lost. 1251 00:51:25,390 --> 00:51:28,900 S1: In this episode. But I thought it was. Yeah. Are 1252 00:51:28,900 --> 00:51:30,820 S1: you male now giving points to random people? 1253 00:51:30,850 --> 00:51:32,330 S2: Well, she took one fat corner, so I feel like 1254 00:51:32,330 --> 00:51:32,750 S2: we've done like. 1255 00:51:33,520 --> 00:51:35,680 S1: I thought it'd be interesting just to do a final reflection, 1256 00:51:35,710 --> 00:51:37,600 S1: kind of where we ended up and this was always 1257 00:51:37,600 --> 00:51:39,310 S1: like a bit of a bit of fun. We weren't 1258 00:51:39,310 --> 00:51:41,980 S1: kind of trying to be too objective and have too 1259 00:51:41,980 --> 00:51:45,370 S1: much of a rigorous process around it, but we didn't 1260 00:51:45,370 --> 00:51:48,580 S1: nail Thomas number one in our final ranking. We had 1261 00:51:48,580 --> 00:51:51,759 S1: Kendall on top 31 points and Tom just behind him 1262 00:51:51,760 --> 00:51:55,330 S1: on 28, followed closely by Shiv on 25. And I 1263 00:51:55,330 --> 00:51:57,759 S1: think I think that did reflect where the show was going. 1264 00:51:57,760 --> 00:52:01,960 S1: Kendall was being built up as a potential successor, and 1265 00:52:01,960 --> 00:52:03,700 S1: Tom and she were doing quite well. And I feel like, 1266 00:52:03,700 --> 00:52:06,430 S1: you know, it shows we paid attention basically. Any any 1267 00:52:06,430 --> 00:52:08,790 S1: final thoughts on how our rankings went? 1268 00:52:08,800 --> 00:52:11,469 S11: This has been such a like a affirming podcast for us, 1269 00:52:12,130 --> 00:52:15,820 S11: like a lot of it has been. We've been we've been. Right. Yeah. 1270 00:52:15,820 --> 00:52:17,649 S11: I guess if you were to say, okay, so say 1271 00:52:17,650 --> 00:52:20,110 S11: we redid it instead of power rankings to people who 1272 00:52:20,110 --> 00:52:23,049 S11: actually got what they wanted at the end, how would 1273 00:52:23,050 --> 00:52:25,140 S11: you redo that? Because you'd have to put Roman up 1274 00:52:25,150 --> 00:52:25,930 S11: the top there. 1275 00:52:25,930 --> 00:52:26,589 S3: Yeah, it's a good point. 1276 00:52:26,590 --> 00:52:27,220 S1: I kind of think. 1277 00:52:27,219 --> 00:52:29,350 S3: Shocking for you. I think. 1278 00:52:29,350 --> 00:52:31,120 S1: In a weird way, if you if you kind of 1279 00:52:31,120 --> 00:52:34,420 S1: play the tape out to the end, almost every character 1280 00:52:34,420 --> 00:52:37,480 S1: is sort of like probably going to be better off 1281 00:52:37,630 --> 00:52:39,820 S1: except for maybe Kendall because of just how kind of 1282 00:52:39,820 --> 00:52:40,390 S1: broken he. 1283 00:52:40,390 --> 00:52:42,219 S2: Is. I don't know. Greg was earning like 250 grand. 1284 00:52:42,219 --> 00:52:43,720 S2: Now he's on like 20 or 30, maybe 40. 1285 00:52:43,719 --> 00:52:44,080 S3: It's actually. 1286 00:52:44,080 --> 00:52:47,109 S1: True. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, Greg is probably earning more 1287 00:52:47,110 --> 00:52:49,630 S1: than he was as Derek and probably having a better time. 1288 00:52:49,630 --> 00:52:51,940 S2: If I lost $210,000 in a day, I would go 1289 00:52:51,940 --> 00:52:54,399 S2: to the Hudson River and jump into it. 1290 00:52:55,239 --> 00:52:57,250 S1: Well, going. Depending on how this book goes, you might 1291 00:52:57,250 --> 00:52:57,969 S1: be losing a salary. 1292 00:52:57,969 --> 00:52:59,140 S3: So yeah, but. 1293 00:52:59,140 --> 00:53:00,600 S2: It's not that big. I feel like. 1294 00:53:01,330 --> 00:53:04,270 S11: I feel like shift didn't end up ended up quite 1295 00:53:04,270 --> 00:53:07,180 S11: badly to like, I can't see her and Tom's relationship 1296 00:53:07,180 --> 00:53:09,940 S11: working where she's not in the position of power and 1297 00:53:09,940 --> 00:53:12,430 S11: she's not the one who's the breadwinner in the relationship. 1298 00:53:12,489 --> 00:53:16,210 S1: Yeah, maybe it really is just Roman who I kind 1299 00:53:16,210 --> 00:53:18,070 S1: of have come around. Mel. I wasn't really on board 1300 00:53:18,070 --> 00:53:21,190 S1: with you for most of your Roman discourse, but his 1301 00:53:21,190 --> 00:53:25,060 S1: him being freed from this battle seems to be a 1302 00:53:25,060 --> 00:53:27,010 S1: good outcome for him. I don't think he's going to 1303 00:53:27,010 --> 00:53:28,960 S1: lead a particularly happy life like I think he's a 1304 00:53:28,960 --> 00:53:30,759 S1: weird guy with a lot of weird issues, but I 1305 00:53:30,760 --> 00:53:33,790 S1: think he will be happier and maybe more fulfilled, not 1306 00:53:33,790 --> 00:53:36,100 S1: in this kind of squabble for a company he doesn't really. 1307 00:53:36,100 --> 00:53:38,320 S2: Care about it. Probably be in that spank dungeon or 1308 00:53:38,320 --> 00:53:39,010 S2: whatever that she. 1309 00:53:39,130 --> 00:53:40,930 S3: Talked about jerking. 1310 00:53:40,930 --> 00:53:46,859 S1: Off in the Spank dungeon. Okay. So that brings us 1311 00:53:46,860 --> 00:53:50,129 S1: to our regular prediction segment, but with a twist, because 1312 00:53:50,130 --> 00:53:52,200 S1: there's obviously no more episodes to go. But I thought 1313 00:53:52,200 --> 00:53:55,290 S1: it'd be interesting to ask you guys where each of Roman, 1314 00:53:55,290 --> 00:53:58,469 S1: Shiv and Kendall may end up if there was another 1315 00:53:58,469 --> 00:54:03,480 S1: episode or another season of this show. I personally think that. 1316 00:54:03,480 --> 00:54:05,370 S1: Kendall Yeah, he's not he's not having a good time. 1317 00:54:05,370 --> 00:54:08,879 S1: I'm not convinced that he lives for much longer because 1318 00:54:08,880 --> 00:54:11,969 S1: he had said explicitly that he really didn't have much 1319 00:54:11,969 --> 00:54:13,770 S1: to live for. If he didn't if he didn't win, 1320 00:54:14,219 --> 00:54:17,189 S1: if he didn't win this. But I feel more confused 1321 00:54:17,190 --> 00:54:20,330 S1: or like a bit uncertain about where Shiv and Roman go. 1322 00:54:20,340 --> 00:54:22,180 S1: What do you think, Mel, about the future of these 1323 00:54:22,200 --> 00:54:22,910 S1: these siblings? 1324 00:54:22,920 --> 00:54:25,469 S11: Okay. So say we were to have Succession Season five, 1325 00:54:25,469 --> 00:54:28,590 S11: Episode one. I reckon it opens at the kind of 1326 00:54:28,590 --> 00:54:32,730 S11: birthday party of the new baby Shiv and Tom's birthday party. 1327 00:54:32,730 --> 00:54:35,880 S11: I think Kendall comes in off his face. He's high. 1328 00:54:35,880 --> 00:54:39,420 S11: He's the loose cannon. Everyone kind of. Oh, Uncle Kendall, 1329 00:54:39,420 --> 00:54:42,090 S11: what a mess. So he comes in completely unhinged. I 1330 00:54:42,090 --> 00:54:45,180 S11: think Roman comes in. He's happy. Tabitha's back with him. 1331 00:54:45,180 --> 00:54:47,490 S11: He's maybe dressing up for the kids party. He's got 1332 00:54:47,489 --> 00:54:50,160 S11: the daughter there now making fun of it. And then 1333 00:54:50,160 --> 00:54:53,129 S11: I think Shiv and Tom are playing happy families for now. 1334 00:54:53,130 --> 00:54:56,970 S11: And I think Shiv is controlling Gojo from behind the scenes, 1335 00:54:56,969 --> 00:54:59,940 S11: and her and Tom are planning to take over some 1336 00:54:59,940 --> 00:55:03,590 S11: of the shares of that company and win back, win back. Wait, staff. 1337 00:55:03,719 --> 00:55:05,670 S1: I wish I could, Commissioner. That's I would watch that. 1338 00:55:05,730 --> 00:55:06,360 S3: That is compelling. 1339 00:55:06,360 --> 00:55:07,020 S11: You can't commission. 1340 00:55:07,020 --> 00:55:07,320 S3: Me. 1341 00:55:08,250 --> 00:55:14,700 S2: I'm shocked that you didn't predict Logan's funeral. I think that. Yeah, 1342 00:55:14,700 --> 00:55:17,250 S2: I think I see what you're saying about Kendall being 1343 00:55:17,250 --> 00:55:19,620 S2: possibly dead. It felt like that. But taking, like, a 1344 00:55:19,620 --> 00:55:21,570 S2: less grim prediction, I could also see that if there 1345 00:55:21,570 --> 00:55:23,969 S2: was a if there was a season five episode one. Yeah, 1346 00:55:23,969 --> 00:55:27,210 S2: it opens with Kendall, like back in the war room. 1347 00:55:27,210 --> 00:55:30,750 S2: He's fucking blasting Jack Harlow and like, he's got like, 1348 00:55:30,750 --> 00:55:33,000 S2: he's ten people around him who are setting up ten 1349 00:55:33,000 --> 00:55:35,669 S2: different Twitter accounts and he's just got TikTok and he's like, 1350 00:55:35,670 --> 00:55:37,489 S2: all ready to go again. And he's cooked up some like, 1351 00:55:37,500 --> 00:55:40,379 S2: harebrained scheme to get back in the game. I do 1352 00:55:40,380 --> 00:55:42,660 S2: think that, you know, we're probably right in saying like 1353 00:55:42,660 --> 00:55:45,180 S2: the justification, I suppose, for Shiv doing what she did. 1354 00:55:45,180 --> 00:55:48,120 S2: If we're being generous to justify that plot point is 1355 00:55:48,120 --> 00:55:51,150 S2: maybe she thought, okay, I'll let Tom take this win 1356 00:55:51,150 --> 00:55:53,549 S2: because ultimately the entire dynamic of our relationship is that 1357 00:55:53,550 --> 00:55:55,859 S2: I can mine fucking whatever I want. And so maybe 1358 00:55:55,860 --> 00:55:58,300 S2: she's back with Tom. They've got the baby and she's like, 1359 00:55:58,320 --> 00:56:00,239 S2: got her claws back into him. And so she's kind 1360 00:56:00,239 --> 00:56:02,910 S2: of in the game. And Roman I reckon if they 1361 00:56:02,910 --> 00:56:04,710 S2: had another episode, I dead set. Reckon he would be 1362 00:56:04,710 --> 00:56:06,779 S2: like running the 100 he was so keen on. It 1363 00:56:06,810 --> 00:56:08,910 S2: was like his thing. He was driving it. He seemed 1364 00:56:08,910 --> 00:56:11,850 S2: like the most, like passionate and engaged we've ever seen him. 1365 00:56:11,850 --> 00:56:13,590 S2: And you can tell like, the way he's been throughout 1366 00:56:13,590 --> 00:56:15,719 S2: the whole show. He's always wanted something like he wants 1367 00:56:15,719 --> 00:56:17,790 S2: a job that he's like knows he's good at and 1368 00:56:17,790 --> 00:56:20,160 S2: he can be like task driven. So he maybe he 1369 00:56:20,160 --> 00:56:22,290 S2: comes in, he started wearing like slogan tees and stuff 1370 00:56:22,290 --> 00:56:23,910 S2: and he's running the 100 and that's where everyone's at. 1371 00:56:23,910 --> 00:56:26,670 S1: Also incredible like this is Jesse Armstrong. If you're listening, 1372 00:56:26,760 --> 00:56:27,210 S1: you're not. 1373 00:56:27,810 --> 00:56:29,070 S2: I mean, you never say never get. 1374 00:56:29,070 --> 00:56:29,790 S1: These guys to. 1375 00:56:29,790 --> 00:56:30,660 S3: Write a show. 1376 00:56:30,660 --> 00:56:32,009 S11: What about you was what do you think? 1377 00:56:32,130 --> 00:56:35,510 S1: I actually don't have anything more compelling and interesting than 1378 00:56:35,610 --> 00:56:37,200 S1: that from from both of you. I mean, I do 1379 00:56:37,200 --> 00:56:41,190 S1: think that I do think that the family dynamics are 1380 00:56:41,190 --> 00:56:44,370 S1: what have been so compelling. And so I'm really attracted 1381 00:56:44,370 --> 00:56:46,260 S1: to your idea of like and you sort of said 1382 00:56:46,260 --> 00:56:49,380 S1: this last week, Thomas, about how it might end with 1383 00:56:49,380 --> 00:56:52,020 S1: like the birth of the son and what it means 1384 00:56:52,020 --> 00:56:54,810 S1: for the cycle continuing and new. I'm kind of really 1385 00:56:54,810 --> 00:56:57,660 S1: interested in that idea and whether Shiv thinks she can 1386 00:56:57,660 --> 00:57:00,000 S1: break that in some way and how she tries to 1387 00:57:00,000 --> 00:57:02,550 S1: do that because Logan never really tried to break it. 1388 00:57:02,550 --> 00:57:05,009 S1: But this generation of kids feel like they know what 1389 00:57:05,010 --> 00:57:07,589 S1: the problems are. And maybe, yeah, maybe we follow in 1390 00:57:07,590 --> 00:57:11,100 S1: 20 years time, like Kendall's kids and shivs kids as 1391 00:57:11,100 --> 00:57:13,350 S1: they try and fake kids. Kendall's fake. 1392 00:57:13,350 --> 00:57:13,860 S3: Kids. 1393 00:57:13,860 --> 00:57:17,040 S1: Yeah, Yeah. A bit of a weird reveal there as well. 1394 00:57:17,040 --> 00:57:19,860 S1: You know, we finally got the confirmation that the one 1395 00:57:19,860 --> 00:57:21,600 S1: kids adopted. The other kids like a love child from 1396 00:57:21,600 --> 00:57:22,530 S1: a separate relationship. 1397 00:57:22,530 --> 00:57:25,110 S2: I also think my final little, like, addition to that, 1398 00:57:25,110 --> 00:57:28,320 S2: I reckon Greg and Abby would be having a legit relationship. 1399 00:57:28,350 --> 00:57:29,700 S11: That is a good call. 1400 00:57:29,700 --> 00:57:31,680 S2: Yeah. I just feel like they're two. They kind of 1401 00:57:32,010 --> 00:57:34,709 S2: occupy the same weird role and I could see them like, 1402 00:57:34,710 --> 00:57:35,550 S2: having a good vibe. 1403 00:57:35,850 --> 00:57:38,730 S1: Also. Watch that. Maybe we should just like from when 1404 00:57:38,730 --> 00:57:42,150 S1: this podcast finishes, just read out scripts of new. 1405 00:57:42,150 --> 00:57:42,540 S3: Episodes. 1406 00:57:43,050 --> 00:57:46,620 S1: That'll be right in between. Before we say goodbye to 1407 00:57:46,620 --> 00:57:49,080 S1: this series, is there any final thoughts that you guys 1408 00:57:49,080 --> 00:57:52,530 S1: had on on the show, on on the kind of 1409 00:57:52,710 --> 00:57:54,540 S1: themes that the show has brought up? 1410 00:57:54,900 --> 00:57:58,800 S2: I believe it was Shakespeare that, you know, I think like, 1411 00:57:58,800 --> 00:58:01,590 S2: you know, this has been an incredible show. And I'm 1412 00:58:01,590 --> 00:58:04,800 S2: midway through writing this recap, which hopefully everyone listening will 1413 00:58:04,800 --> 00:58:07,680 S2: read and trying to figure out what to say. But 1414 00:58:07,680 --> 00:58:10,260 S2: like essentially, I thought thought was pretty amazing about this 1415 00:58:10,260 --> 00:58:13,530 S2: episode was that it was like this 90 minute microcosm 1416 00:58:13,530 --> 00:58:17,010 S2: of the entire show. Like the issue from the first 1417 00:58:17,010 --> 00:58:20,040 S2: ten minutes of the first episode was Who will succeed 1418 00:58:20,040 --> 00:58:22,530 S2: and will any of these kids be able to get 1419 00:58:22,530 --> 00:58:24,930 S2: out of their own way to do it? And the 1420 00:58:24,930 --> 00:58:27,930 S2: episode basically took us through every permutation of that again 1421 00:58:27,930 --> 00:58:29,880 S2: and ended up with the same result. Is it that 1422 00:58:29,880 --> 00:58:34,170 S2: they can't they're too hamstrung by their history and their 1423 00:58:34,170 --> 00:58:38,730 S2: self-absorption and they sabotage. And it's ultimately because they've never 1424 00:58:38,730 --> 00:58:41,700 S2: had to do any kind of like fighting to survive. 1425 00:58:41,700 --> 00:58:43,710 S2: It's been given to them and they just don't have 1426 00:58:43,710 --> 00:58:46,100 S2: that in. And I just thought it was amazing that 1427 00:58:46,100 --> 00:58:48,590 S2: in 90 minutes, which I had serious concerns about, they 1428 00:58:48,590 --> 00:58:52,100 S2: retraced the entire thing again. So like, honestly, probably the 1429 00:58:52,100 --> 00:58:55,880 S2: best TV finale up there with Sopranos, if not better. 1430 00:58:56,150 --> 00:58:58,820 S11: I'm really looking forward to watching some Yellowstone for a bit. 1431 00:58:58,970 --> 00:58:59,900 S3: Come on, let's do it. 1432 00:58:59,900 --> 00:59:01,970 S1: Let's do a whole Yellowstone Rewatch podcast. 1433 00:59:01,970 --> 00:59:03,170 S3: Let's go, Let's do it. 1434 00:59:03,170 --> 00:59:04,910 S11: So you might take them to that. And then actually, 1435 00:59:04,910 --> 00:59:06,860 S11: I'm kind of interested to go back at some point 1436 00:59:06,860 --> 00:59:10,790 S11: and watch succession all the seasons together quickly, because I 1437 00:59:10,790 --> 00:59:13,550 S11: feel like there's probably so many throwbacks to earlier episodes 1438 00:59:13,550 --> 00:59:15,410 S11: that we've picked up on a lot of them because 1439 00:59:15,410 --> 00:59:18,140 S11: as we've been saying, this whole episode, we're very astute commentators, 1440 00:59:18,140 --> 00:59:21,440 S11: but I feel like you'd get something from watching them 1441 00:59:21,440 --> 00:59:23,450 S11: all back to back. And it will be interesting to 1442 00:59:23,450 --> 00:59:26,960 S11: see to how much endings matter in the streaming era 1443 00:59:26,960 --> 00:59:29,360 S11: as well, because when you can watch them all again 1444 00:59:29,360 --> 00:59:31,550 S11: close together all in one hit, I think it will 1445 00:59:31,550 --> 00:59:32,750 S11: give you a different perspective. 1446 00:59:32,750 --> 00:59:36,170 S1: That's really interesting. Yeah. My main my main thought from 1447 00:59:36,170 --> 00:59:39,650 S1: the last few episodes in particular has been just how 1448 00:59:39,650 --> 00:59:41,840 S1: the show has become more and more a real time 1449 00:59:41,840 --> 00:59:45,200 S1: commentary on what's happening in politics in media, like the 1450 00:59:45,200 --> 00:59:49,400 S1: episodes where Mattson and Menken are making deals to help 1451 00:59:49,400 --> 00:59:51,770 S1: each other out. Like in the last week, we have 1452 00:59:51,770 --> 00:59:56,060 S1: seen Elon Musk and Ron DeSantis work together to announce 1453 00:59:56,060 --> 01:00:00,290 S1: his presidential campaign like that happening the week that we 1454 01:00:00,320 --> 01:00:03,470 S1: saw them talking to discuss how they would boost the 1455 01:00:03,470 --> 01:00:06,860 S1: the algorithm to help Jared Mencken is is kind of crazy. 1456 01:00:06,860 --> 01:00:09,680 S1: And there's there's no show doing that as well as this. 1457 01:00:09,680 --> 01:00:11,510 S1: And this is not even a show that is about 1458 01:00:11,510 --> 01:00:14,780 S1: like politics. This is a show that is about family dynamics, 1459 01:00:14,780 --> 01:00:18,860 S1: media stuff and corporate battles. And yeah, I will miss 1460 01:00:18,860 --> 01:00:22,520 S1: it a lot. Like I Jesse Armstrong is so good 1461 01:00:22,520 --> 01:00:24,950 S1: that he'll be back with something else. But yeah, I 1462 01:00:24,950 --> 01:00:29,900 S1: hope that there's like people who are making TV producers, execs, writers, 1463 01:00:29,900 --> 01:00:32,720 S1: actors who watch this and realize you can like take 1464 01:00:32,720 --> 01:00:35,150 S1: a big swing and you can have a show that 1465 01:00:35,150 --> 01:00:37,310 S1: doesn't have big stars at the start. We've talked about 1466 01:00:37,310 --> 01:00:40,729 S1: that before and is a bit weird and has totally 1467 01:00:40,730 --> 01:00:44,660 S1: crazy characters and plots. But if it has important things 1468 01:00:44,660 --> 01:00:47,330 S1: that wants to say about the world and is funny 1469 01:00:47,330 --> 01:00:51,110 S1: and is emotionally heartfelt, people will connect with it. This 1470 01:00:51,110 --> 01:00:54,680 S1: isn't like a big showy CGI fest like Game of Thrones, 1471 01:00:54,680 --> 01:00:57,860 S1: which has sex and blood and violence, right? This is 1472 01:00:57,860 --> 01:01:01,820 S1: the opposite of that. And it's been more important, I think, 1473 01:01:01,820 --> 01:01:05,120 S1: to our conversation about how the world works and like 1474 01:01:05,150 --> 01:01:08,180 S1: what art should do. So I'm really excited that we've 1475 01:01:08,180 --> 01:01:10,130 S1: got to do this and I'm excited about what people 1476 01:01:10,130 --> 01:01:12,920 S1: who watch it create next, basically. And it's also been 1477 01:01:12,920 --> 01:01:15,320 S1: a blast chatting with you guys every week. Thank you so. 1478 01:01:15,320 --> 01:01:17,419 S11: Much. Thank you. That was quite moving in the fact 1479 01:01:17,420 --> 01:01:20,060 S11: you've said it in Logan, Roy's cardigan, it just made 1480 01:01:20,060 --> 01:01:21,170 S11: it even more powerful. 1481 01:01:21,920 --> 01:01:23,480 S2: I mean, there was some blood and violence in this 1482 01:01:23,480 --> 01:01:26,510 S2: last episode, but just a hint. But yes, there will 1483 01:01:26,510 --> 01:01:29,600 S2: be a big hole, I think, in everyone's viewing schedule now, 1484 01:01:29,660 --> 01:01:32,060 S2: which you can, of course, feel on Wednesday night with 1485 01:01:32,060 --> 01:01:34,820 S2: the state against state battle, State of Origin on Channel Nine. 1486 01:01:35,300 --> 01:01:37,340 S1: It is the right way to end this podcast by 1487 01:01:37,340 --> 01:01:38,780 S1: saying up the blues. 1488 01:01:38,780 --> 01:01:39,200 S3: Yes. 1489 01:01:39,470 --> 01:01:40,760 S11: And you've kept your job. 1490 01:01:40,790 --> 01:01:41,600 S2: I know. I got in there. 1491 01:01:41,600 --> 01:01:42,080 S3: Right at the end. 1492 01:01:42,080 --> 01:01:44,270 S1: Well done, Thomas. And the three of us are going 1493 01:01:44,270 --> 01:01:47,000 S1: to be back. More information to be revealed soon about 1494 01:01:47,000 --> 01:01:50,300 S1: what we're doing next on this podcast. But thanks for 1495 01:01:50,300 --> 01:01:52,400 S1: the chat over the past couple of months. Thanks to 1496 01:01:52,400 --> 01:01:55,940 S1: Meg as well, who was so wonderful at kicking things off, 1497 01:01:55,940 --> 01:01:58,010 S1: who we miss a lot. Yeah, thanks. 1498 01:01:58,010 --> 01:02:01,220 S11: Heaps and a shout out to Ruby who has made 1499 01:02:01,220 --> 01:02:04,070 S11: this podcast so great and every time I listen to 1500 01:02:04,070 --> 01:02:06,260 S11: bits of it, I'm impressed about what she's done with 1501 01:02:06,260 --> 01:02:07,580 S11: our our content. 1502 01:02:07,610 --> 01:02:07,940 S3: Yeah. 1503 01:02:08,210 --> 01:02:08,750 S2: She polishes. 1504 01:02:08,750 --> 01:02:09,110 S3: You. 1505 01:02:09,350 --> 01:02:10,400 S11: Oh, I know it completely. 1506 01:02:10,400 --> 01:02:12,590 S1: If everything that goes to air on this podcast, there's 1507 01:02:12,590 --> 01:02:15,890 S1: ten times more bits of complete garbage that Ruby thankfully 1508 01:02:15,890 --> 01:02:19,580 S1: cuts out and her production work has been brilliant. So thanks, Ruby. 1509 01:02:19,580 --> 01:02:20,930 S1: And thanks again, Thomas and Mel. 1510 01:02:20,930 --> 01:02:21,710 S3: Thank you. Thank you. 1511 01:02:28,150 --> 01:02:31,900 S1: This succession recap episode of The Drop was produced by 1512 01:02:31,900 --> 01:02:35,320 S1: Ruby Schwartz. If you enjoyed listening to today's episode, make 1513 01:02:35,320 --> 01:02:37,840 S1: sure to follow us in your favorite podcast app. Give 1514 01:02:37,840 --> 01:02:40,470 S1: us a review or better yet, share it with a friend. 1515 01:02:40,480 --> 01:02:42,940 S1: I'm Osman Farooqui and I'll be back next week with 1516 01:02:42,940 --> 01:02:44,830 S1: fresh episodes of The Drop.