WEBVTT - Captaincy Rumours, Cheika’s Chance, Finals Format & Sevens Future 0:00:02.480 --> 0:00:03.880 Welcome back to Inside Line. 0:00:04.040 --> 0:00:08.280 Justin Harrison, Tim Horny and Peyton in the Insideline studio. 0:00:08.360 --> 0:00:09.680 This week got plenty to talk about. 0:00:09.680 --> 0:00:12.280 We're going to chat about the Super Rugby finals system. 0:00:12.360 --> 0:00:13.160 We're going to talk to. 0:00:13.080 --> 0:00:15.480 An Aussie seventh star over in India. At the moment, 0:00:16.079 --> 0:00:18.600 there's a bit of reports around the Wallabies captaincy leading 0:00:18.600 --> 0:00:21.200 into the line series, so gentlemen, lots to sink our 0:00:21.239 --> 0:00:23.599 teeth into. But one of the biggest talking points this 0:00:23.680 --> 0:00:26.799 week has been around the structure of the finals system 0:00:27.080 --> 0:00:30.080 in Super Rugby Pacific. I think it's fair to say 0:00:30.080 --> 0:00:32.560 there was a lot of criticism after the opening weekend 0:00:32.640 --> 0:00:35.839 the qualifying finals. Peter, You've written an article on the 0:00:35.880 --> 0:00:40.280 Sydney Morning Herald in the paper today Wednesday, the eleventh 0:00:40.320 --> 0:00:43.640 of June that this structure as it is this year 0:00:43.800 --> 0:00:44.919 is going to be reviewed. 0:00:45.080 --> 0:00:46.120 What are they going to look at? 0:00:46.159 --> 0:00:49.000 Do you think it's going to come under a general 0:00:49.040 --> 0:00:51.520 review of the competition? But yeah, I suppose to put 0:00:51.520 --> 0:00:57.640 context to it all. After the Chiefs lost their qualifying 0:00:57.640 --> 0:01:02.639 final to the Blues, the new Super Rugby final structure, 0:01:02.720 --> 0:01:06.520 they retained the right to host a semi final obviously, 0:01:06.560 --> 0:01:08.920 so that the brummies have got to travel over to 0:01:08.959 --> 0:01:12.520 Hamilton on Saturday. And I think it caught a few people. 0:01:12.520 --> 0:01:14.640 I have surprised the rules were there, as has been 0:01:14.720 --> 0:01:19.039 spoken about in other places, but it Yeah, I think 0:01:19.240 --> 0:01:22.440 most people thought that the Chiefs would lose the right 0:01:22.480 --> 0:01:24.959 to host another final, you know, a bit of a 0:01:24.959 --> 0:01:28.600 double dipping situation. So I think it caught a few 0:01:28.600 --> 0:01:30.880 people by surprise. On Saturday night when you guys were 0:01:30.920 --> 0:01:34.640 putting up the where the finals will be next week. 0:01:36.720 --> 0:01:40.039 Spoke to Jack Measley, the Super Rugby CEO yesterday just 0:01:40.680 --> 0:01:44.800 he's saying, look, they do a review of the competition anyway, 0:01:45.680 --> 0:01:48.040 they will go around to the stakeholders. 0:01:48.080 --> 0:01:49.480 They don't want that word, but you know. 0:01:49.480 --> 0:01:56.640 The clubs, the players, the officials, and he also, you know, 0:01:57.160 --> 0:01:59.000 I think wisely sort of said that there will be 0:01:59.040 --> 0:02:01.600 an element of the pub two as well, whether the 0:02:01.640 --> 0:02:05.560 punters think this is a fair system, and he acknowledged 0:02:05.600 --> 0:02:06.240 that that people. 0:02:06.400 --> 0:02:08.600 Plenty of people don't think it's a fair system. 0:02:08.680 --> 0:02:11.360 So I think that's good that Super Rugby have got 0:02:11.400 --> 0:02:13.840 an open mind about it. I wouldn't be surprised to 0:02:13.880 --> 0:02:17.680 see that if this time next year there's a tinkering 0:02:17.800 --> 0:02:20.440 you know, as we've discussed on this show in the past, 0:02:20.800 --> 0:02:23.000 Super rugby has been a victim of too much change 0:02:23.000 --> 0:02:25.440 in the past, always constantly changing. But I don't think 0:02:25.639 --> 0:02:27.680 that should stop your tinkering with things if. 0:02:29.200 --> 0:02:30.400 Things just don't quite feel right. 0:02:30.440 --> 0:02:32.560 I think those changes have probably come in because the 0:02:33.280 --> 0:02:35.520 number of teams have changed a lot over the last 0:02:35.560 --> 0:02:36.080 ten years. 0:02:36.120 --> 0:02:39.920 You know that, in this example changes the number of 0:02:39.919 --> 0:02:42.400 teams you got in finals, But that doesn't mean you 0:02:42.480 --> 0:02:45.280 have to go with this structure. They could have found 0:02:45.400 --> 0:02:48.639 a better way to structure the finals this year out. 0:02:48.639 --> 0:02:51.360 But I also think I like the top six because 0:02:51.560 --> 0:02:54.760 the last two rounds there were still probably was the 0:02:54.919 --> 0:02:57.040 nine teams that could have made that top six. So 0:02:57.960 --> 0:02:59.600 I don't mind. I love the top six. I think 0:02:59.639 --> 0:03:01.680 just to tink of it. I was listening to James 0:03:01.720 --> 0:03:04.919 HALLLL on between two posts earlier this week talking about 0:03:05.280 --> 0:03:07.000 and this is probably the best way to go one 0:03:07.080 --> 0:03:09.799 and two. You've got to have some sort of incentive 0:03:09.840 --> 0:03:12.040 to finish one and two in the competition. One and 0:03:12.080 --> 0:03:15.240 two should get the weekend off and then from three 0:03:15.440 --> 0:03:17.680 to six they end up playing so three plays six, 0:03:17.760 --> 0:03:21.280 four plays five knockout finals. Then they go and play 0:03:21.320 --> 0:03:23.680 the semi finals against one and two. But I'm fine 0:03:23.680 --> 0:03:25.600 with the Chiefs getting a second chance at home. 0:03:26.480 --> 0:03:27.760 I think you've got to look at some of the 0:03:27.760 --> 0:03:31.040 things around why that system was put in place or 0:03:31.040 --> 0:03:33.480 how it was put in place. There was probably not 0:03:33.639 --> 0:03:37.640 as thorough as stakeholder engagement and consultation process. Is what's 0:03:37.680 --> 0:03:41.000 going to be involved now. The Rebels were exited very quickly. 0:03:41.040 --> 0:03:43.400 The team went almost over in ID although we knew 0:03:43.440 --> 0:03:45.880 it was a slow burn to an eleven team competition 0:03:46.000 --> 0:03:49.720 and there had to be some form of building content 0:03:50.240 --> 0:03:53.200 allowing teams to have home games. In an eleven team competition, 0:03:53.240 --> 0:03:55.240 you've got two buys now, so that means every team 0:03:55.320 --> 0:03:58.880 loses another game another revenue piece as well. Trying to 0:03:58.880 --> 0:04:00.960 solve for that was very good. So we had the 0:04:00.960 --> 0:04:04.440 eight team final. People didn't like that added value by 0:04:04.520 --> 0:04:07.160 changing it to six exactly right, Pato. I think they'll 0:04:07.160 --> 0:04:09.920 add value because there'll be a known entity that's accepted 0:04:09.920 --> 0:04:14.160 by many stakeholders to just change slightly how the reshuffle happens. 0:04:14.560 --> 0:04:16.599 I don't agree with the top two having a week off, 0:04:16.600 --> 0:04:19.480 maybe because two less games for people, two less venues 0:04:19.520 --> 0:04:21.120 that are going to be played for content for the 0:04:21.160 --> 0:04:24.720 broadcast sky and stand to put on TV and generate revenue. 0:04:24.200 --> 0:04:26.919 But also momentum going into finals. There's a way you 0:04:27.000 --> 0:04:29.279 finish one on two. He actually, as a player, your 0:04:29.279 --> 0:04:30.400 feel like you want to keep. 0:04:31.120 --> 0:04:35.000 Every every game on the last weekend before the finals 0:04:35.000 --> 0:04:39.120 meant something, and every game won through six meant something 0:04:39.160 --> 0:04:42.040 as well. Clearly, I think what we're caught by surprise 0:04:42.200 --> 0:04:46.400 was the lack of knowledge around the chiefs and coming 0:04:46.440 --> 0:04:48.560 out and saying this is the finals and this is 0:04:48.600 --> 0:04:49.239 what's happening. 0:04:49.320 --> 0:04:51.599 But also for the viewer, it was quite confusing for 0:04:51.640 --> 0:04:54.640 the viewer or the fan to know all the permeentations 0:04:54.680 --> 0:04:58.080 on if your side wins or loser's highest loser, highest winner, 0:04:58.120 --> 0:04:58.719 how that works. 0:04:58.720 --> 0:05:01.560 So I think they sai not knowing and then understanding 0:05:01.600 --> 0:05:04.200 why and then how do we how do we consult 0:05:04.320 --> 0:05:07.200 and improve? It would be would be very surprised if 0:05:07.240 --> 0:05:10.159 next year, if one or two lose a home final, 0:05:10.240 --> 0:05:12.760 if we maintain the same structure, then they lose the 0:05:12.839 --> 0:05:16.719 right to host the semi at the next opportunity, and then. 0:05:16.880 --> 0:05:20.040 No one no one really bothered reading the fine print 0:05:20.080 --> 0:05:23.520 because how often does the lowest team beat the top team? 0:05:23.760 --> 0:05:26.520 Well not often. In fact, it's only ever happened. 0:05:26.240 --> 0:05:30.480 Twice in Super right the Blues to win against I. 0:05:30.400 --> 0:05:32.240 Don't know if you were in these teams you may 0:05:32.240 --> 0:05:35.400 have been, but Queensland were the only team still have lost. 0:05:35.400 --> 0:05:37.920 They was back when Super Rugby was a top four. 0:05:38.360 --> 0:05:41.600 They went straight to Semis and Queensland lost in natal shot. 0:05:43.160 --> 0:05:45.600 We played them in the last round in Durban and 0:05:45.640 --> 0:05:48.160 then they end up finishing fourth. We finished first, think 0:05:48.160 --> 0:05:50.000 we lost one or two games a whole. 0:05:49.839 --> 0:05:54.240 And then Crusaders when they won from fourth, So no 0:05:54.279 --> 0:05:57.440 one bothered reading the fine print, right, so it kind. 0:05:57.279 --> 0:05:58.359 Of caught us by surprise. 0:05:58.720 --> 0:06:03.920 Yeah, you're right. There is a Mastermind algorithm that has 0:06:03.960 --> 0:06:06.320 six meeting. First well, no, and saw that happening. But 0:06:06.320 --> 0:06:08.960 then also a scenario that's on the other end of 0:06:08.960 --> 0:06:13.120 the bell curve that has if you reshuffle incorrectly those rankings, 0:06:13.160 --> 0:06:15.080 potentially you can have a semi and then the same 0:06:15.120 --> 0:06:19.200 opponent's meeting again in a sorry a quarter into a semi, 0:06:19.440 --> 0:06:21.320 so that there was a bit of jeopardy there as well. 0:06:21.360 --> 0:06:23.919 So it was done to reward the minor premier. Obviously, 0:06:24.240 --> 0:06:26.480 it was supposed to be an award for the Minor Premier. 0:06:26.960 --> 0:06:29.599 Reward for Minor Premiership is you're guaranteed to go through 0:06:29.600 --> 0:06:32.760 to the next week. That's a reward I lose to. 0:06:34.080 --> 0:06:37.680 If you lose, you forfeit any right to host. From there, 0:06:37.880 --> 0:06:40.760 the Chiefs could still host the final despite losing the 0:06:40.760 --> 0:06:41.400 first one. 0:06:41.240 --> 0:06:43.440 Well, and I argue in Super Rugby I wrote a 0:06:43.440 --> 0:06:45.840 piece about this the other day that the ability to 0:06:46.120 --> 0:06:49.240 have the inside running to host the final, which the 0:06:49.279 --> 0:06:51.160 only person that gets the inside running the host the 0:06:51.160 --> 0:06:53.120 final is the team that finishes one if you keep 0:06:53.160 --> 0:06:57.000 winning the final, and nineteen of the twenty six Super 0:06:57.160 --> 0:07:00.840 Rugby winners were the team that finished first. So winning 0:07:01.360 --> 0:07:04.360 playing at home is such an advantage in a competition 0:07:04.440 --> 0:07:06.000 with international travel, and that's. 0:07:05.839 --> 0:07:08.840 Why I was so costly for the Brundies to lose 0:07:08.880 --> 0:07:10.880 that game a couple of weeks ago to not finish 0:07:11.120 --> 0:07:11.520 number two. 0:07:11.640 --> 0:07:16.080 That's you, that's your advantage to me that for finishing first, 0:07:16.200 --> 0:07:19.400 finishing Minor Premiers, having inside running on playing the final 0:07:19.400 --> 0:07:22.320 at home. So Tim, I don't think that we'll go 0:07:22.440 --> 0:07:25.280 back to that system of having the top two got 0:07:25.280 --> 0:07:28.000 a week off because there's a competition that as you 0:07:28.080 --> 0:07:30.320 mentioned with the Rebels company. 0:07:30.000 --> 0:07:32.560 There's already lost game, so the broadcasters are pretty can 0:07:32.680 --> 0:07:35.120 you get as many games those one finals match? 0:07:35.160 --> 0:07:37.840 If you go to that in that opening week instead 0:07:37.840 --> 0:07:39.520 of having three games, you have too so you only 0:07:39.560 --> 0:07:40.120 lose one. 0:07:40.120 --> 0:07:43.840 You're still down an extra game because there's two by competitions, 0:07:43.640 --> 0:07:44.040 there's two. 0:07:44.840 --> 0:07:48.840 Would integrity of competition not be more important than quantity 0:07:48.880 --> 0:07:51.240 of cotability and quantity of content. 0:07:51.400 --> 0:07:51.960 More game. 0:07:53.440 --> 0:07:54.240 One final game. 0:07:54.560 --> 0:07:57.920 It needs to be a sustainable platform of commercial viability 0:07:57.920 --> 0:07:59.920 and this will be the difference as well in stake 0:08:00.120 --> 0:08:03.480 or engagement. Super rugby clubs need to be at the 0:08:03.520 --> 0:08:07.120 table along with players as well about the Super Rugby. 0:08:07.240 --> 0:08:09.760 They need to present how the commercial outcomes of this 0:08:10.600 --> 0:08:13.720 year has has worked for them. What does it meant 0:08:13.800 --> 0:08:16.520 for two missing games because of two buyers? What does 0:08:16.560 --> 0:08:20.040 it meant for a home final series and you're getting 0:08:20.080 --> 0:08:21.920 another semi? I mean the Chiefs would be pretty happy 0:08:21.920 --> 0:08:24.800 they get another they get another game at home from 0:08:24.800 --> 0:08:27.720 a revenue perspective. Are they the only team to do 0:08:27.800 --> 0:08:30.040 other teams accept that as well? I think that'll be 0:08:30.080 --> 0:08:33.360 the difference in this. Mesley and the Super Rugby Pacific 0:08:33.760 --> 0:08:36.840 concept and central office wasn't around when this was put together, 0:08:37.240 --> 0:08:38.800 we're vastly different outcome. 0:08:39.040 --> 0:08:41.520 There's pros and cons to all the ways you look 0:08:41.559 --> 0:08:45.199 at it. So the Crusaders and the Chiefs are playing 0:08:45.200 --> 0:08:48.079 two home games in a row, like do do people 0:08:48.080 --> 0:08:50.640 put their hands in their pocket for that. But additionally, 0:08:51.120 --> 0:08:55.040 as Jack Measley said to me yesterday, imagine the Brumby's 0:08:55.080 --> 0:08:57.480 bashed up after a really tough game against the Canes. 0:08:57.640 --> 0:08:59.760 We're now going to the Chiefs a week off when 0:08:59.760 --> 0:09:03.000 we're fresh. So jeopardy is what's got us to this position, 0:09:03.080 --> 0:09:08.000 which is great. So you know that the second result, 0:09:08.360 --> 0:09:12.400 the second final this weekend, means that Chiefs and Brumbies. 0:09:12.000 --> 0:09:13.880 Have both got bruises all over them. 0:09:14.000 --> 0:09:16.520 I think probably the most common sense solution is just 0:09:16.840 --> 0:09:19.440 if you lose a final, you automatically go to fourth 0:09:19.440 --> 0:09:21.000 seating regardless. 0:09:20.480 --> 0:09:22.640 Of you just got to be careful it doesn't become 0:09:22.679 --> 0:09:25.600 a Duckworth Lewis scenario with the cricket where no one 0:09:25.679 --> 0:09:27.960 knew what was going on. So keep it simple so 0:09:28.000 --> 0:09:29.199 that the fans can underst. 0:09:28.920 --> 0:09:31.240 Maybe we should give it an Duckworth Lewis. Even then 0:09:32.240 --> 0:09:33.199 that exploring. 0:09:33.360 --> 0:09:46.800 About horn Harrison Payton h people. 0:09:41.480 --> 0:09:43.880 If the Chiefs when the Chiefs lost, they should then 0:09:43.960 --> 0:09:45.280 go to Cambra to play the Brumbies. 0:09:45.520 --> 0:09:48.280 Yes, that's what I think most people thought was going. 0:09:48.200 --> 0:09:50.719 To happen, right, Yeah, Well, the Brumbies just need to 0:09:50.760 --> 0:09:52.559 win this weekend, beat the Chiefs and they need the 0:09:52.600 --> 0:09:55.160 Blues to beat the Crusaders and then it's Blues versus 0:09:55.160 --> 0:09:59.240 Brumbies in cam next week. We'll definitely be talking about 0:09:59.280 --> 0:10:01.400 that next week. Yeah, that's been a big talking point 0:10:01.480 --> 0:10:03.320 this week. In the last couple of days, there's been 0:10:03.600 --> 0:10:07.080 some reports around who might be the Wallabies captain for 0:10:07.160 --> 0:10:10.320 the Lion series. Report that it's looking like it's going 0:10:10.360 --> 0:10:11.959 to be Jake Gordon, which I think has caught a 0:10:12.000 --> 0:10:14.720 lot of people by surprise. Joe Schmitt's over in Perth 0:10:14.760 --> 0:10:17.360 and he was asked about that report and this is 0:10:17.360 --> 0:10:18.040 what he had to say. 0:10:18.800 --> 0:10:22.520 Jake, he's one of the leaders in the group, but 0:10:22.640 --> 0:10:24.640 so is Nick White, so that you know that there's 0:10:24.760 --> 0:10:27.160 there's a few halfbacks and Tate McDermott has been a 0:10:27.160 --> 0:10:30.040 former captain, so of the nines we had last year, 0:10:30.360 --> 0:10:33.880 they're all leaders within the group. So Jake is a 0:10:33.920 --> 0:10:37.480 really good skill set, mature player, very nice kicking game, 0:10:38.320 --> 0:10:41.920 one of the Sharper passes around and he is utterly 0:10:41.920 --> 0:10:43.959 committed when he's on the when he's on the grass, 0:10:44.200 --> 0:10:48.800 his ability to cover corners and make tackles, involved in 0:10:48.840 --> 0:10:52.280 the physical stuff he's he's he's a multi purpose sort 0:10:52.280 --> 0:10:54.720 of player, but at the sharp edge of his game 0:10:54.920 --> 0:11:00.280 is really his pass kick which which were very hellful 0:11:00.320 --> 0:11:01.160 to us last year. 0:11:02.720 --> 0:11:04.720 Joe Schmidt doing what he does best there and being 0:11:04.800 --> 0:11:08.559 a bit noncommittal and paying respect to a multitude of 0:11:08.600 --> 0:11:11.720 players as well as the topic in Jake Gordon. But 0:11:11.840 --> 0:11:14.480 I think when I said he caught people by surprise, 0:11:14.520 --> 0:11:17.920 it's no disrespect good to Jake Gordon. He's obviously an 0:11:17.960 --> 0:11:21.200 experienced player, a leader at the warrtar's leader within the Wallabies. 0:11:21.240 --> 0:11:24.200 But I think what caught me by surprise is this 0:11:24.240 --> 0:11:26.400 is not the way Joe seems to have done things, 0:11:26.400 --> 0:11:28.960 at least in the twelve months he's been in the 0:11:29.000 --> 0:11:31.319 seed as Wallabies coach. He seems to last year have 0:11:31.480 --> 0:11:34.280 picked to fifteen first and foremost, and then out of 0:11:34.280 --> 0:11:37.080 that fifteen picked his captain. Do you think maybe he 0:11:37.120 --> 0:11:40.520 now if this is correct, if it's true, he's more 0:11:40.520 --> 0:11:42.319 settled on who is fifteen is going to be? 0:11:42.559 --> 0:11:43.800 This far out from the Lions. 0:11:44.280 --> 0:11:46.320 I'm not sure. I think it's a long way from 0:11:46.360 --> 0:11:50.280 settled conjecture around captaincies. You're just sing get everyone to 0:11:50.320 --> 0:11:53.360 len Ford. Interesting listening to his answer and all of 0:11:53.360 --> 0:11:57.720 his answer was about performance and skill, nothing about leadership 0:11:57.960 --> 0:12:01.520 and what are the skills required to lead this Wallaby 0:12:01.559 --> 0:12:04.120 group through the British rice line series and to be 0:12:04.160 --> 0:12:06.600 a consistent leader. I think what the Australian rug veh 0:12:06.600 --> 0:12:10.840 eco system is learning, particularly from twenty three World Cup experience, 0:12:10.880 --> 0:12:14.240 one of the main things was that players will get 0:12:14.360 --> 0:12:17.280 given multiple opportunities to be the leader in many different 0:12:17.280 --> 0:12:20.000 capacities and not just waiting for captaincy to be a leader. 0:12:20.000 --> 0:12:21.440 You can be the youngest in the team and be 0:12:21.480 --> 0:12:24.040 a leader of that generation of player coming through. Look 0:12:24.080 --> 0:12:27.199 at Joseph Suley either way, he's brought professionalism into the 0:12:27.280 --> 0:12:30.240 change room and he's a leader without a title. Then 0:12:30.240 --> 0:12:32.520 there's a forward leader, there's a senior leadership group and 0:12:32.559 --> 0:12:35.240 how you manifest itself into a team environment. It's very 0:12:35.280 --> 0:12:39.000 important Judgment is skilled at picking players who can work 0:12:39.040 --> 0:12:41.840 to a game plan and follow his strategy and technique 0:12:41.840 --> 0:12:44.480 and tactics. I think the group is now going to 0:12:44.520 --> 0:12:47.280 inform him about leadership. What is really healthy, and I'll 0:12:47.280 --> 0:12:49.120 throw it upen to you guys, is that there are 0:12:49.200 --> 0:12:52.160 multiple names that you can consider that would be able 0:12:52.200 --> 0:12:55.400 to step into the importance of a captaincy role because 0:12:55.400 --> 0:12:57.800 it is an elevation. You are scrutinized, you are the 0:12:57.800 --> 0:13:01.680 first person interviewed after a game when asked about controversy, 0:13:01.720 --> 0:13:04.280 and you need to articulate team messaging and be a 0:13:04.320 --> 0:13:07.640 conduit between the coach and the players. The positive that 0:13:07.679 --> 0:13:10.880 we've got, you know, since twenty three, let's say our 0:13:10.920 --> 0:13:15.240 nearest traumatic experience with the Wallaby group is that there 0:13:15.240 --> 0:13:18.120 are multiple people. Now that group has been together for 0:13:18.160 --> 0:13:21.719 a while and he, you know, just reeled off two 0:13:21.760 --> 0:13:24.760 other nines who are in competition for that position that 0:13:24.840 --> 0:13:27.480 are also very skilled, but there are multiple leaders. 0:13:27.640 --> 0:13:30.160 I think it's when you look at leaders or skippers 0:13:30.160 --> 0:13:33.920 of a rugby team the attributes that I think you've 0:13:33.960 --> 0:13:37.760 got to be first picked in your position. So Alena Tawa, yes, 0:13:38.240 --> 0:13:42.320 frasermink right, yes, Jake Gordon, I'd probably argue that would 0:13:42.320 --> 0:13:44.679 he be first selected. Maybe he's a better starter than 0:13:44.720 --> 0:13:47.920 a finish it compared to a Tate McDermot or Nick White, 0:13:48.240 --> 0:13:49.920 and then you'd have to look at Akay well if 0:13:49.920 --> 0:13:52.400 you're the first player picked. And then for the Lions, 0:13:52.480 --> 0:13:55.480 maybe Joe Smith's looking for the lines and how big 0:13:55.520 --> 0:13:57.560 the side will be of the British and Irish Lions. 0:13:57.600 --> 0:14:00.640 I being physically physically that you need to start with 0:14:00.760 --> 0:14:04.000 someone who's got the physicality of a Jake Gordon, and 0:14:04.240 --> 0:14:06.640 also as a skipper to how long you're going to 0:14:06.679 --> 0:14:08.120 be on the field for, you need to be on 0:14:08.160 --> 0:14:10.960 the field for at least sixty minutes, sixty to sixty five. 0:14:11.040 --> 0:14:13.240 I think to be multiple captains named. I think that 0:14:13.559 --> 0:14:16.160 we've seen some teams have captains vice captain named off 0:14:16.200 --> 0:14:19.200 the bench as well, and they're going to be multiple 0:14:19.200 --> 0:14:22.560 people called on to lead this team through not just 0:14:22.760 --> 0:14:24.720 when to kick for touch and when to take points 0:14:24.720 --> 0:14:25.960 and heads or tails. 0:14:25.760 --> 0:14:28.400 Because if you think they're say everyone thought maybe Harry 0:14:28.400 --> 0:14:30.800 Wilson would be the skipper, which is the incumbent Wallaby 0:14:30.840 --> 0:14:34.520 captain at eight, Jake Gordon not both those players might 0:14:34.560 --> 0:14:36.800 only be on the field for fifty five minutes and 0:14:36.840 --> 0:14:39.680 then alanel tawas he the next person who comes off 0:14:39.720 --> 0:14:42.120 the bench that takes that leadership role. So I think 0:14:42.160 --> 0:14:44.560 It's interesting. I think there's three or four players in 0:14:44.600 --> 0:14:45.880 that conversation. 0:14:46.600 --> 0:14:49.200 The journo and me thinks watches that clip and says 0:14:49.200 --> 0:14:51.680 that he didn't say no right like I've seen Joe 0:14:51.680 --> 0:14:54.040 Schmidt shoot down those sort of questions like oh, we'll 0:14:54.040 --> 0:14:57.960 pick our captain later or whatever. So the report was 0:14:58.000 --> 0:15:01.200 from Darren Walton to aap is very berunced been around 0:15:01.240 --> 0:15:02.800 the traps for a long time, so I don't have 0:15:02.840 --> 0:15:05.680 any reason to doubt his mail. I haven't heard the 0:15:05.720 --> 0:15:08.440 same thing, but I'm curious about looking at it from 0:15:08.760 --> 0:15:11.840 you know, why would it Why would it be the case? 0:15:12.400 --> 0:15:14.960 I think we all think Harry Wilson. You know, if 0:15:15.000 --> 0:15:19.400 fit has earned the right to roll forward, you know, 0:15:19.480 --> 0:15:23.480 then Alan Alatoa, as you've mentioned, then you start to 0:15:23.560 --> 0:15:26.200 just move the chess pieces around. It's quite fun, you know, 0:15:26.360 --> 0:15:28.560 Like maybe he wants to start Tan Yello Tupo and 0:15:28.600 --> 0:15:30.640 get a half hour out of him and then use 0:15:30.640 --> 0:15:31.560 Allen at the back half. 0:15:32.080 --> 0:15:34.120 Think mcdom it's better coming off. 0:15:34.640 --> 0:15:36.120 It's a victim of his own success. 0:15:36.120 --> 0:15:38.560 We've discussed this on this on this Maybe he wants 0:15:38.680 --> 0:15:41.920 a lu Khan or asarah Uru, who's a better line 0:15:41.920 --> 0:15:44.800 out option. And he's thinking about redigging that back row 0:15:44.880 --> 0:15:47.760 throughout the series. Right, So maybe when you look at it, 0:15:47.840 --> 0:15:49.760 you're looking at a guy who is going to start 0:15:50.080 --> 0:15:52.760 three tests. It's the best bet for three tests to 0:15:52.840 --> 0:15:55.720 start in that spot and stay there and has some consistency. 0:15:55.720 --> 0:15:58.120 And look, we've seen Joe do some pretty wild stuff 0:15:58.160 --> 0:16:00.720 with the captaincy. He named Liam Right as his very 0:16:00.760 --> 0:16:03.800 first captain right out of the blue. Lamb hadn't played 0:16:03.840 --> 0:16:06.760 for the Wallabies for five or six years, so we'll. 0:16:06.600 --> 0:16:08.720 Probably over the last two years we must have had 0:16:09.000 --> 0:16:11.880 seven or eight Wallaby captains over the last two years. 0:16:11.880 --> 0:16:14.840 So my account last year under Joe was four that 0:16:15.040 --> 0:16:18.680 Liam Wright, Slipper, Alan al Taie and Harry will. 0:16:18.640 --> 0:16:21.680 Try that Tate McDermott had one in New Zealand. 0:16:21.360 --> 0:16:24.200 So you never now twenty three that had Tate will Skelton, 0:16:24.280 --> 0:16:28.320 Will Skelton, Dave Pereki Allen also captained, So there's a 0:16:28.480 --> 0:16:29.400 Hooper Slipper. 0:16:29.600 --> 0:16:33.320 Yeah, which means you have eight people who are now leaders, 0:16:33.560 --> 0:16:35.960 whether they're captains or not. An experience of it and 0:16:36.680 --> 0:16:40.280 it's a learned skill and Rugby Australia is putting resource 0:16:40.360 --> 0:16:44.440 super rugby provinces are putting resources into what it is 0:16:44.440 --> 0:16:46.760 to be a leader and how it can It doesn't 0:16:46.800 --> 0:16:49.240 have to be necessarily the most skillful personal, or most 0:16:49.280 --> 0:16:52.720 powerful or best achieving person on the field. That's absolutely something, 0:16:52.760 --> 0:16:54.760 And there's no way a coach says, before a squad's 0:16:54.760 --> 0:16:57.080 been picked, or a ball's been kicked, or a game's 0:16:57.080 --> 0:17:00.200 been won or lost, you demotivate someone by telling them 0:17:00.240 --> 0:17:02.240 they're out of the mix for something. So right now 0:17:02.920 --> 0:17:05.840 there is every Australian rugby player thinks so a chance 0:17:05.920 --> 0:17:09.560 to play against the British ice lines. Every starting player 0:17:09.560 --> 0:17:12.199 in their aspiration of all of his test group is 0:17:12.200 --> 0:17:14.640 the captain of that group. That's a great you as 0:17:14.640 --> 0:17:17.240 a coach. You want to keep everyone in that in 0:17:17.280 --> 0:17:20.520 that sheep pen of motivation and that's that's a skillful We. 0:17:20.440 --> 0:17:22.919 Could be a couple of days away from this squad 0:17:22.960 --> 0:17:24.639 being named, like Joe said that he will do it 0:17:24.640 --> 0:17:25.800 as soon as the Brumbies are out. 0:17:25.840 --> 0:17:27.760 That could be, but that's the squad. 0:17:29.200 --> 0:17:31.840 Presumably there is a there's a sheet of paper doing 0:17:31.880 --> 0:17:34.400 around a draft sheet of paper that that has most 0:17:34.400 --> 0:17:34.960 of that squad. 0:17:35.400 --> 0:17:37.560 That could change, but that's still the squad for feets 0:17:37.600 --> 0:17:38.280 the squad. 0:17:37.960 --> 0:17:41.359 For the FII Test that, yeah, cut it back or 0:17:41.440 --> 0:17:44.679 name a new squad four or five days after that 0:17:44.720 --> 0:17:46.359 Fiji Test in Newcastle. 0:17:46.600 --> 0:17:48.760 I'm just I mean, I'm intrigued about the debate of 0:17:48.800 --> 0:17:51.080 it is why it wouldn't be Harry right, like you'd 0:17:51.160 --> 0:17:53.280 think pushing off the back fence at some corps. 0:17:53.280 --> 0:17:56.480 Well, maybe there's so much competition in the background that's 0:17:56.560 --> 0:17:58.720 it run English as well now and Harry's been in 0:17:58.760 --> 0:18:01.639 great form. But I still think for the Wallabies, you 0:18:01.640 --> 0:18:04.800 go to schools and clubs and you know yet all 0:18:04.840 --> 0:18:07.479 those could say, okay, well name me five Wallaby players. 0:18:07.720 --> 0:18:10.639 I still think that the captain of the Wallaby's needs to 0:18:10.680 --> 0:18:14.320 be there for a twelve to twenty four month period 0:18:14.440 --> 0:18:16.440 leading into the Rugby World Cup. Who's that going to 0:18:16.520 --> 0:18:19.520 be so that kids can identify I know it's John Eels, 0:18:19.520 --> 0:18:22.000 I know it's Michael Hooper, or I know it's who's 0:18:22.000 --> 0:18:22.480 the next cap. 0:18:22.520 --> 0:18:24.399 Well, there were eight hundred and fifteen orange on the 0:18:24.400 --> 0:18:26.880 weekend of the under thirteen state a ruby cabley minor 0:18:26.920 --> 0:18:29.960 six degrees named at least fifteen of them. I'll tell 0:18:29.960 --> 0:18:32.840 you what they no, no, yeah, they know they know 0:18:32.920 --> 0:18:34.720 they were a heaper and they weren't just all sooughly 0:18:34.800 --> 0:18:38.199 he's running around. There were rights mcderm even down in 0:18:38.240 --> 0:18:40.280 the middle of New South Wales or Queen's their names 0:18:40.320 --> 0:18:44.359 Wilson's and mcwright's, and the names names manifesting itself. Lots 0:18:44.359 --> 0:18:47.520 of people leaning into this Wallaby group now, lots of anticipation. 0:18:47.880 --> 0:18:49.880 I wanted to come back to you, Tim, like you 0:18:49.960 --> 0:18:50.560 talk about it. 0:18:50.720 --> 0:18:53.320 The Wallaby captain needs to be revered at a certain level, 0:18:53.359 --> 0:18:56.160