Speaker 1: Welcome back to Inside Line.
Speaker 2: Justin Harrison, Tim Horny and Peyton in the Insideline studio.
Speaker 1: This week got plenty to talk about.
Speaker 2: We're going to chat about the Super Rugby finals system.
Speaker 1: We're going to talk to.
Speaker 2: An Aussie seventh star over in India. At the moment,
Speaker 2: there's a bit of reports around the Wallabies captaincy leading
Speaker 2: into the line series, so gentlemen, lots to sink our
Speaker 2: teeth into. But one of the biggest talking points this
Speaker 2: week has been around the structure of the finals system
Speaker 2: in Super Rugby Pacific. I think it's fair to say
Speaker 2: there was a lot of criticism after the opening weekend
Speaker 2: the qualifying finals. Peter, You've written an article on the
Speaker 2: Sydney Morning Herald in the paper today Wednesday, the eleventh
Speaker 2: of June that this structure as it is this year
Speaker 2: is going to be reviewed.
Speaker 1: What are they going to look at?
Speaker 3: Do you think it's going to come under a general
Speaker 3: review of the competition? But yeah, I suppose to put
Speaker 3: context to it all. After the Chiefs lost their qualifying
Speaker 3: final to the Blues, the new Super Rugby final structure,
Speaker 3: they retained the right to host a semi final obviously,
Speaker 3: so that the brummies have got to travel over to
Speaker 3: Hamilton on Saturday. And I think it caught a few people.
Speaker 3: I have surprised the rules were there, as has been
Speaker 3: spoken about in other places, but it Yeah, I think
Speaker 3: most people thought that the Chiefs would lose the right
Speaker 3: to host another final, you know, a bit of a
Speaker 3: double dipping situation. So I think it caught a few
Speaker 3: people by surprise. On Saturday night when you guys were
Speaker 3: putting up the where the finals will be next week.
Speaker 3: Spoke to Jack Measley, the Super Rugby CEO yesterday just
Speaker 3: he's saying, look, they do a review of the competition anyway,
Speaker 3: they will go around to the stakeholders.
Speaker 4: They don't want that word, but you know.
Speaker 3: The clubs, the players, the officials, and he also, you know,
Speaker 3: I think wisely sort of said that there will be
Speaker 3: an element of the pub two as well, whether the
Speaker 3: punters think this is a fair system, and he acknowledged
Speaker 3: that that people.
Speaker 4: Plenty of people don't think it's a fair system.
Speaker 3: So I think that's good that Super Rugby have got
Speaker 3: an open mind about it. I wouldn't be surprised to
Speaker 3: see that if this time next year there's a tinkering
Speaker 3: you know, as we've discussed on this show in the past,
Speaker 3: Super rugby has been a victim of too much change
Speaker 3: in the past, always constantly changing. But I don't think
Speaker 3: that should stop your tinkering with things if.
Speaker 4: Things just don't quite feel right.
Speaker 5: I think those changes have probably come in because the
Speaker 5: number of teams have changed a lot over the last
Speaker 5: ten years.
Speaker 2: You know that, in this example changes the number of
Speaker 2: teams you got in finals, But that doesn't mean you
Speaker 2: have to go with this structure. They could have found
Speaker 2: a better way to structure the finals this year out.
Speaker 5: But I also think I like the top six because
Speaker 5: the last two rounds there were still probably was the
Speaker 5: nine teams that could have made that top six. So
Speaker 5: I don't mind. I love the top six. I think
Speaker 5: just to tink of it. I was listening to James
Speaker 5: HALLLL on between two posts earlier this week talking about
Speaker 5: and this is probably the best way to go one
Speaker 5: and two. You've got to have some sort of incentive
Speaker 5: to finish one and two in the competition. One and
Speaker 5: two should get the weekend off and then from three
Speaker 5: to six they end up playing so three plays six,
Speaker 5: four plays five knockout finals. Then they go and play
Speaker 5: the semi finals against one and two. But I'm fine
Speaker 5: with the Chiefs getting a second chance at home.
Speaker 6: I think you've got to look at some of the
Speaker 6: things around why that system was put in place or
Speaker 6: how it was put in place. There was probably not
Speaker 6: as thorough as stakeholder engagement and consultation process. Is what's
Speaker 6: going to be involved now. The Rebels were exited very quickly.
Speaker 6: The team went almost over in ID although we knew
Speaker 6: it was a slow burn to an eleven team competition
Speaker 6: and there had to be some form of building content
Speaker 6: allowing teams to have home games. In an eleven team competition,
Speaker 6: you've got two buys now, so that means every team
Speaker 6: loses another game another revenue piece as well. Trying to
Speaker 6: solve for that was very good. So we had the
Speaker 6: eight team final. People didn't like that added value by
Speaker 6: changing it to six exactly right, Pato. I think they'll
Speaker 6: add value because there'll be a known entity that's accepted
Speaker 6: by many stakeholders to just change slightly how the reshuffle happens.
Speaker 6: I don't agree with the top two having a week off,
Speaker 6: maybe because two less games for people, two less venues
Speaker 6: that are going to be played for content for the
Speaker 6: broadcast sky and stand to put on TV and generate revenue.
Speaker 5: But also momentum going into finals. There's a way you
Speaker 5: finish one on two. He actually, as a player, your
Speaker 5: feel like you want to keep.
Speaker 6: Every every game on the last weekend before the finals
Speaker 6: meant something, and every game won through six meant something
Speaker 6: as well. Clearly, I think what we're caught by surprise
Speaker 6: was the lack of knowledge around the chiefs and coming
Speaker 6: out and saying this is the finals and this is
Speaker 6: what's happening.
Speaker 5: But also for the viewer, it was quite confusing for
Speaker 5: the viewer or the fan to know all the permeentations
Speaker 5: on if your side wins or loser's highest loser, highest winner,
Speaker 5: how that works.
Speaker 6: So I think they sai not knowing and then understanding
Speaker 6: why and then how do we how do we consult
Speaker 6: and improve? It would be would be very surprised if
Speaker 6: next year, if one or two lose a home final,
Speaker 6: if we maintain the same structure, then they lose the
Speaker 6: right to host the semi at the next opportunity, and then.
Speaker 3: No one no one really bothered reading the fine print
Speaker 3: because how often does the lowest team beat the top team?
Speaker 4: Well not often. In fact, it's only ever happened.
Speaker 5: Twice in Super right the Blues to win against I.
Speaker 3: Don't know if you were in these teams you may
Speaker 3: have been, but Queensland were the only team still have lost.
Speaker 3: They was back when Super Rugby was a top four.
Speaker 3: They went straight to Semis and Queensland lost in natal shot.
Speaker 5: We played them in the last round in Durban and
Speaker 5: then they end up finishing fourth. We finished first, think
Speaker 5: we lost one or two games a whole.
Speaker 3: And then Crusaders when they won from fourth, So no
Speaker 3: one bothered reading the fine print, right, so it kind.
Speaker 4: Of caught us by surprise.
Speaker 6: Yeah, you're right. There is a Mastermind algorithm that has
Speaker 6: six meeting. First well, no, and saw that happening. But
Speaker 6: then also a scenario that's on the other end of
Speaker 6: the bell curve that has if you reshuffle incorrectly those rankings,
Speaker 6: potentially you can have a semi and then the same
Speaker 6: opponent's meeting again in a sorry a quarter into a semi,
Speaker 6: so that there was a bit of jeopardy there as well.
Speaker 3: So it was done to reward the minor premier. Obviously,
Speaker 3: it was supposed to be an award for the Minor Premier.
Speaker 2: Reward for Minor Premiership is you're guaranteed to go through
Speaker 2: to the next week. That's a reward I lose to.
Speaker 2: If you lose, you forfeit any right to host. From there,
Speaker 2: the Chiefs could still host the final despite losing the
Speaker 2: first one.
Speaker 3: Well, and I argue in Super Rugby I wrote a
Speaker 3: piece about this the other day that the ability to
Speaker 3: have the inside running to host the final, which the
Speaker 3: only person that gets the inside running the host the
Speaker 3: final is the team that finishes one if you keep
Speaker 3: winning the final, and nineteen of the twenty six Super
Speaker 3: Rugby winners were the team that finished first. So winning
Speaker 3: playing at home is such an advantage in a competition
Speaker 3: with international travel, and that's.
Speaker 5: Why I was so costly for the Brundies to lose
Speaker 5: that game a couple of weeks ago to not finish
Speaker 5: number two.
Speaker 3: That's you, that's your advantage to me that for finishing first,
Speaker 3: finishing Minor Premiers, having inside running on playing the final
Speaker 3: at home. So Tim, I don't think that we'll go
Speaker 3: back to that system of having the top two got
Speaker 3: a week off because there's a competition that as you
Speaker 3: mentioned with the Rebels company.
Speaker 4: There's already lost game, so the broadcasters are pretty can
Speaker 4: you get as many games those one finals match?
Speaker 2: If you go to that in that opening week instead
Speaker 2: of having three games, you have too so you only
Speaker 2: lose one.
Speaker 6: You're still down an extra game because there's two by competitions,
Speaker 6: there's two.
Speaker 2: Would integrity of competition not be more important than quantity
Speaker 2: of cotability and quantity of content.
Speaker 6: More game.
Speaker 1: One final game.
Speaker 6: It needs to be a sustainable platform of commercial viability
Speaker 6: and this will be the difference as well in stake
Speaker 6: or engagement. Super rugby clubs need to be at the
Speaker 6: table along with players as well about the Super Rugby.
Speaker 6: They need to present how the commercial outcomes of this
Speaker 6: year has has worked for them. What does it meant
Speaker 6: for two missing games because of two buyers? What does
Speaker 6: it meant for a home final series and you're getting
Speaker 6: another semi? I mean the Chiefs would be pretty happy
Speaker 6: they get another they get another game at home from
Speaker 6: a revenue perspective. Are they the only team to do
Speaker 6: other teams accept that as well? I think that'll be
Speaker 6: the difference in this. Mesley and the Super Rugby Pacific
Speaker 6: concept and central office wasn't around when this was put together,
Speaker 6: we're vastly different outcome.
Speaker 3: There's pros and cons to all the ways you look
Speaker 3: at it. So the Crusaders and the Chiefs are playing
Speaker 3: two home games in a row, like do do people
Speaker 3: put their hands in their pocket for that. But additionally,
Speaker 3: as Jack Measley said to me yesterday, imagine the Brumby's
Speaker 3: bashed up after a really tough game against the Canes.
Speaker 3: We're now going to the Chiefs a week off when
Speaker 3: we're fresh. So jeopardy is what's got us to this position,
Speaker 3: which is great. So you know that the second result,
Speaker 3: the second final this weekend, means that Chiefs and Brumbies.
Speaker 4: Have both got bruises all over them.
Speaker 3: I think probably the most common sense solution is just
Speaker 3: if you lose a final, you automatically go to fourth
Speaker 3: seating regardless.
Speaker 5: Of you just got to be careful it doesn't become
Speaker 5: a Duckworth Lewis scenario with the cricket where no one
Speaker 5: knew what was going on. So keep it simple so
Speaker 5: that the fans can underst.
Speaker 6: Maybe we should give it an Duckworth Lewis. Even then
Speaker 6: that exploring.
Speaker 2: About horn Harrison Payton h people.
Speaker 5: If the Chiefs when the Chiefs lost, they should then
Speaker 5: go to Cambra to play the Brumbies.
Speaker 4: Yes, that's what I think most people thought was going.
Speaker 2: To happen, right, Yeah, Well, the Brumbies just need to
Speaker 2: win this weekend, beat the Chiefs and they need the
Speaker 2: Blues to beat the Crusaders and then it's Blues versus
Speaker 2: Brumbies in cam next week. We'll definitely be talking about
Speaker 2: that next week. Yeah, that's been a big talking point
Speaker 2: this week. In the last couple of days, there's been
Speaker 2: some reports around who might be the Wallabies captain for
Speaker 2: the Lion series. Report that it's looking like it's going
Speaker 2: to be Jake Gordon, which I think has caught a
Speaker 2: lot of people by surprise. Joe Schmitt's over in Perth
Speaker 2: and he was asked about that report and this is
Speaker 2: what he had to say.
Speaker 7: Jake, he's one of the leaders in the group, but
Speaker 7: so is Nick White, so that you know that there's
Speaker 7: there's a few halfbacks and Tate McDermott has been a
Speaker 7: former captain, so of the nines we had last year,
Speaker 7: they're all leaders within the group. So Jake is a
Speaker 7: really good skill set, mature player, very nice kicking game,
Speaker 7: one of the Sharper passes around and he is utterly
Speaker 7: committed when he's on the when he's on the grass,
Speaker 7: his ability to cover corners and make tackles, involved in
Speaker 7: the physical stuff he's he's he's a multi purpose sort
Speaker 7: of player, but at the sharp edge of his game
Speaker 7: is really his pass kick which which were very hellful
Speaker 7: to us last year.
Speaker 2: Joe Schmidt doing what he does best there and being
Speaker 2: a bit noncommittal and paying respect to a multitude of
Speaker 2: players as well as the topic in Jake Gordon. But
Speaker 2: I think when I said he caught people by surprise,
Speaker 2: it's no disrespect good to Jake Gordon. He's obviously an
Speaker 2: experienced player, a leader at the warrtar's leader within the Wallabies.
Speaker 2: But I think what caught me by surprise is this
Speaker 2: is not the way Joe seems to have done things,
Speaker 2: at least in the twelve months he's been in the
Speaker 2: seed as Wallabies coach. He seems to last year have
Speaker 2: picked to fifteen first and foremost, and then out of
Speaker 2: that fifteen picked his captain. Do you think maybe he
Speaker 2: now if this is correct, if it's true, he's more
Speaker 2: settled on who is fifteen is going to be?
Speaker 1: This far out from the Lions.
Speaker 6: I'm not sure. I think it's a long way from
Speaker 6: settled conjecture around captaincies. You're just sing get everyone to
Speaker 6: len Ford. Interesting listening to his answer and all of
Speaker 6: his answer was about performance and skill, nothing about leadership
Speaker 6: and what are the skills required to lead this Wallaby
Speaker 6: group through the British rice line series and to be
Speaker 6: a consistent leader. I think what the Australian rug veh
Speaker 6: eco system is learning, particularly from twenty three World Cup experience,
Speaker 6: one of the main things was that players will get
Speaker 6: given multiple opportunities to be the leader in many different
Speaker 6: capacities and not just waiting for captaincy to be a leader.
Speaker 6: You can be the youngest in the team and be
Speaker 6: a leader of that generation of player coming through. Look
Speaker 6: at Joseph Suley either way, he's brought professionalism into the
Speaker 6: change room and he's a leader without a title. Then
Speaker 6: there's a forward leader, there's a senior leadership group and
Speaker 6: how you manifest itself into a team environment. It's very
Speaker 6: important Judgment is skilled at picking players who can work
Speaker 6: to a game plan and follow his strategy and technique
Speaker 6: and tactics. I think the group is now going to
Speaker 6: inform him about leadership. What is really healthy, and I'll
Speaker 6: throw it upen to you guys, is that there are
Speaker 6: multiple names that you can consider that would be able
Speaker 6: to step into the importance of a captaincy role because
Speaker 6: it is an elevation. You are scrutinized, you are the
Speaker 6: first person interviewed after a game when asked about controversy,
Speaker 6: and you need to articulate team messaging and be a
Speaker 6: conduit between the coach and the players. The positive that
Speaker 6: we've got, you know, since twenty three, let's say our
Speaker 6: nearest traumatic experience with the Wallaby group is that there
Speaker 6: are multiple people. Now that group has been together for
Speaker 6: a while and he, you know, just reeled off two
Speaker 6: other nines who are in competition for that position that
Speaker 6: are also very skilled, but there are multiple leaders.
Speaker 5: I think it's when you look at leaders or skippers
Speaker 5: of a rugby team the attributes that I think you've
Speaker 5: got to be first picked in your position. So Alena Tawa, yes,
Speaker 5: frasermink right, yes, Jake Gordon, I'd probably argue that would
Speaker 5: he be first selected. Maybe he's a better starter than
Speaker 5: a finish it compared to a Tate McDermot or Nick White,
Speaker 5: and then you'd have to look at Akay well if
Speaker 5: you're the first player picked. And then for the Lions,
Speaker 5: maybe Joe Smith's looking for the lines and how big
Speaker 5: the side will be of the British and Irish Lions.
Speaker 5: I being physically physically that you need to start with
Speaker 5: someone who's got the physicality of a Jake Gordon, and
Speaker 5: also as a skipper to how long you're going to
Speaker 5: be on the field for, you need to be on
Speaker 5: the field for at least sixty minutes, sixty to sixty five.
Speaker 6: I think to be multiple captains named. I think that
Speaker 6: we've seen some teams have captains vice captain named off
Speaker 6: the bench as well, and they're going to be multiple
Speaker 6: people called on to lead this team through not just
Speaker 6: when to kick for touch and when to take points
Speaker 6: and heads or tails.
Speaker 5: Because if you think they're say everyone thought maybe Harry
Speaker 5: Wilson would be the skipper, which is the incumbent Wallaby
Speaker 5: captain at eight, Jake Gordon not both those players might
Speaker 5: only be on the field for fifty five minutes and
Speaker 5: then alanel tawas he the next person who comes off
Speaker 5: the bench that takes that leadership role. So I think
Speaker 5: It's interesting. I think there's three or four players in
Speaker 5: that conversation.
Speaker 3: The journo and me thinks watches that clip and says
Speaker 3: that he didn't say no right like I've seen Joe
Speaker 3: Schmidt shoot down those sort of questions like oh, we'll
Speaker 3: pick our captain later or whatever. So the report was
Speaker 3: from Darren Walton to aap is very berunced been around
Speaker 3: the traps for a long time, so I don't have
Speaker 3: any reason to doubt his mail. I haven't heard the
Speaker 3: same thing, but I'm curious about looking at it from
Speaker 3: you know, why would it Why would it be the case?
Speaker 3: I think we all think Harry Wilson. You know, if
Speaker 3: fit has earned the right to roll forward, you know,
Speaker 3: then Alan Alatoa, as you've mentioned, then you start to
Speaker 3: just move the chess pieces around. It's quite fun, you know,
Speaker 3: Like maybe he wants to start Tan Yello Tupo and
Speaker 3: get a half hour out of him and then use
Speaker 3: Allen at the back half.
Speaker 5: Think mcdom it's better coming off.
Speaker 4: It's a victim of his own success.
Speaker 3: We've discussed this on this on this Maybe he wants
Speaker 3: a lu Khan or asarah Uru, who's a better line
Speaker 3: out option. And he's thinking about redigging that back row
Speaker 3: throughout the series. Right, So maybe when you look at it,
Speaker 3: you're looking at a guy who is going to start
Speaker 3: three tests. It's the best bet for three tests to
Speaker 3: start in that spot and stay there and has some consistency.
Speaker 3: And look, we've seen Joe do some pretty wild stuff
Speaker 3: with the captaincy. He named Liam Right as his very
Speaker 3: first captain right out of the blue. Lamb hadn't played
Speaker 3: for the Wallabies for five or six years, so we'll.
Speaker 5: Probably over the last two years we must have had
Speaker 5: seven or eight Wallaby captains over the last two years.
Speaker 2: So my account last year under Joe was four that
Speaker 2: Liam Wright, Slipper, Alan al Taie and Harry will.
Speaker 5: Try that Tate McDermott had one in New Zealand.
Speaker 2: So you never now twenty three that had Tate will Skelton,
Speaker 2: Will Skelton, Dave Pereki Allen also captained, So there's a
Speaker 2: Hooper Slipper.
Speaker 6: Yeah, which means you have eight people who are now leaders,
Speaker 6: whether they're captains or not. An experience of it and
Speaker 6: it's a learned skill and Rugby Australia is putting resource
Speaker 6: super rugby provinces are putting resources into what it is
Speaker 6: to be a leader and how it can It doesn't
Speaker 6: have to be necessarily the most skillful personal, or most
Speaker 6: powerful or best achieving person on the field. That's absolutely something,
Speaker 6: And there's no way a coach says, before a squad's
Speaker 6: been picked, or a ball's been kicked, or a game's
Speaker 6: been won or lost, you demotivate someone by telling them
Speaker 6: they're out of the mix for something. So right now
Speaker 6: there is every Australian rugby player thinks so a chance
Speaker 6: to play against the British ice lines. Every starting player
Speaker 6: in their aspiration of all of his test group is
Speaker 6: the captain of that group. That's a great you as
Speaker 6: a coach. You want to keep everyone in that in
Speaker 6: that sheep pen of motivation and that's that's a skillful We.
Speaker 3: Could be a couple of days away from this squad
Speaker 3: being named, like Joe said that he will do it
Speaker 3: as soon as the Brumbies are out.
Speaker 4: That could be, but that's the squad.
Speaker 3: Presumably there is a there's a sheet of paper doing
Speaker 3: around a draft sheet of paper that that has most
Speaker 3: of that squad.
Speaker 5: That could change, but that's still the squad for feets
Speaker 5: the squad.
Speaker 2: For the FII Test that, yeah, cut it back or
Speaker 2: name a new squad four or five days after that
Speaker 2: Fiji Test in Newcastle.
Speaker 3: I'm just I mean, I'm intrigued about the debate of
Speaker 3: it is why it wouldn't be Harry right, like you'd
Speaker 3: think pushing off the back fence at some corps.
Speaker 5: Well, maybe there's so much competition in the background that's
Speaker 5: it run English as well now and Harry's been in
Speaker 5: great form. But I still think for the Wallabies, you
Speaker 5: go to schools and clubs and you know yet all
Speaker 5: those could say, okay, well name me five Wallaby players.
Speaker 5: I still think that the captain of the Wallaby's needs to
Speaker 5: be there for a twelve to twenty four month period
Speaker 5: leading into the Rugby World Cup. Who's that going to
Speaker 5: be so that kids can identify I know it's John Eels,
Speaker 5: I know it's Michael Hooper, or I know it's who's
Speaker 5: the next cap.
Speaker 6: Well, there were eight hundred and fifteen orange on the
Speaker 6: weekend of the under thirteen state a ruby cabley minor
Speaker 6: six degrees named at least fifteen of them. I'll tell
Speaker 6: you what they no, no, yeah, they know they know
Speaker 6: they were a heaper and they weren't just all sooughly
Speaker 6: he's running around. There were rights mcderm even down in
Speaker 6: the middle of New South Wales or Queen's their names
Speaker 6: Wilson's and mcwright's, and the names names manifesting itself. Lots
Speaker 6: of people leaning into this Wallaby group now, lots of anticipation.
Speaker 1: I wanted to come back to you, Tim, like you
Speaker 1: talk about it.
Speaker 2: The Wallaby captain needs to be revered at a certain level,
Speaker 2: particularly leading into the next World Cup, which is here
Speaker 2: in Australia. In the hot seat, you're back as a selector,
Speaker 2: got to say in this who are you picking?
Speaker 5: I was selected Eddie Jones.
Speaker 6: Don't forget.
Speaker 5: So that's what you're going to say.
Speaker 2: Okay, well, let me just pretend that you are in
Speaker 2: the hot seat in a position to have a vote
Speaker 2: or have a say. Who are you picking out of
Speaker 2: the current crop to be the captain of the Wallaby's
Speaker 2: next year?
Speaker 5: Yeah, well there's four or five. But I think if
Speaker 5: you look, as I said from the start, someone like
Speaker 5: a Fraser mcwright, who's going to be there for the
Speaker 5: next four or five years with a Wallaby jersey on.
Speaker 5: He's someone you'd look to, but then there's different like
Speaker 5: Harry Wilson's done a great job. Tate McDermot is going
Speaker 5: to be with the Wallabies for a long period of time.
Speaker 5: So I just think you need a centerpiece, a person
Speaker 5: that kids can go. I know he's the Wallaby captain
Speaker 5: you look for most other sports, Cricket in particular course
Speaker 5: because it's our national sport. You know who the captain
Speaker 5: is of the Australian cricket team.
Speaker 6: I love Harry Wilson's quote when he signed his extension
Speaker 6: was one of the best things I've read from Australier.
Speaker 6: You play. I cannot expect other people to commit to
Speaker 6: this environment and stay here and reject offers. I don't
Speaker 6: do the same thing. I never thought about going overseas.
Speaker 5: And he and he committed past the Rugby World Cup.
Speaker 6: That's outstanding. You can get behind that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well that's been a lot of the word out
Speaker 2: of Wallabies or that environment. On the back of Harry
Speaker 2: being captain was he was a bloke that players wanted
Speaker 2: to play for and play with. So that's a pretty
Speaker 2: good mark as a captain. I just want to come
Speaker 2: back to something you said before about twenty twenty three,
Speaker 2: which obviously was traumatic. Let's comically refer to twenty twenty
Speaker 2: three three. I can't remember exactly. I think I've really
Speaker 2: forgotten about it, but there was a big review out
Speaker 2: of what happened. What transpired that year was leadership or
Speaker 2: a look at leadership. Part of the findings of that
Speaker 2: review after the twenty three World Cup.
Speaker 6: It was an examination of what is the Australian Rugby
Speaker 6: pathway doing for player development in everything other than physical performance?
Speaker 6: What are they doing about the mental side of the
Speaker 6: game and the leadership aspect of producing high performing athletes
Speaker 6: but also high performing minds that have the capacity to
Speaker 6: dissect and problem solve and then deliver. There's only a
Speaker 6: small percentage of that group that can go to the
Speaker 6: rarefied air of being a leader to be able to dissect,
Speaker 6: problem solve, calculate A and B and then deliver C
Speaker 6: back to some people in extreme adversity. And that was
Speaker 6: one of one of the outcomes was that that there
Speaker 6: needs to be a common platform and a common foundation,
Speaker 6: national program, if you will, of leadership identification firstly and
Speaker 6: then development and also cultural sensitivity of different types of leadership.
Speaker 6: There is different cultural aspects involved in the group. Now,
Speaker 6: Australia is one of the most diverse multicultural societies, so
Speaker 6: is our sporting field, and that needs to be delivered
Speaker 6: in different ways and that gets engagement. And the only
Speaker 6: way to get getting handled. A title is not a
Speaker 6: form of engagement, excepting that the person who is wanting
Speaker 6: to receive that title is first able to manifest itself
Speaker 6: in all sorts of different education programs. I think that's
Speaker 6: been a big change since twenty three as well. Absolutely
Speaker 6: super rugular provinces have taken away this parochialism that you know,
Speaker 6: this is our secret. We've got culture, we've got the
Speaker 6: best program, we know how to develop leaders here and
Speaker 6: you don't. There are some tactical now, so there are
Speaker 6: some themes that you want to have intrinsic to each environment.
Speaker 6: But a national leadership program is one of one of
Speaker 6: the one of the outcomes for coaches as well as
Speaker 6: athletes come out of it.
Speaker 5: I just say very quickly, I mean the best teams
Speaker 5: that I've been involved in, whether that's a World Cup
Speaker 5: team or the thing called the Bledislow that no one's
Speaker 5: seen for a long period of time. There was probably
Speaker 5: six or seven blokes in that team that could have
Speaker 5: had the see next to their name. One bloke did
Speaker 5: that was John Eels. But you had this leadership group
Speaker 5: that could and I reckon the Wallabies aren't far off
Speaker 5: that Googie mentioned before. There's four or five players who
Speaker 5: could have the sea next to their name. One bloke's
Speaker 5: going to get it, you think, unless they go with
Speaker 5: co captaincy and you've got all this other leadership around.
Speaker 5: I think we're not far off that at the moment.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I don't think we're actually going to find
Speaker 2: out until all the twenty three to play fee g.
Speaker 2: At least we're not going to actually find out who
Speaker 2: that captain is going to be. I can't see Joe
Speaker 2: naming it any sooner than he names the team for
Speaker 2: the first Test this year. But he is a fascinating
Speaker 2: conversation and as you say, Justin will always make people
Speaker 2: sit forward talk Whileabies captain interesting. A guy who has
Speaker 2: captained his nation in sevens. Henry Hutchison is going to
Speaker 2: join us. He is exploring a new frontier as we speak.
Speaker 5: I just sent back to himself the right arm of
Speaker 5: Gods and he's good.
Speaker 8: Well, betters and leaves, He'll skip hanging for the high five,
Speaker 8: but the cut inside the belt back out it gets
Speaker 8: yourself beckoned to the plate makes them available. Henry Hutchinson,
Speaker 8: he is with every sip because he does so much
Speaker 8: yards in the middle of the park of this team.
Speaker 1: And very pleased to say the Aussie men sevens fly.
Speaker 2: Henry Hutchison joins US now from Mumbai ahead of the
Speaker 2: Indian Rugby Premier League. Hutch how you just quickly, mate,
Speaker 2: how you finding India?
Speaker 1: Finding Mumbai?
Speaker 4: I'm mistay.
Speaker 1: Really enjoyed it.
Speaker 9: Oh here, definitely something new. It's been quite eye opening
Speaker 9: that the foot has been pretty hard as well, so
Speaker 9: definitely no holiday. Well she's made it still a bronco
Speaker 9: on the third day, so I wasn't too stoked about that.
Speaker 9: So we're really getting stuck into it.
Speaker 1: Good to hear, mate.
Speaker 2: We'll double back to that competition and what's ahead and
Speaker 2: how it's going and what it could mean. But there's
Speaker 2: been some big news in the world of World Series
Speaker 2: sevens in recent weeks. We saw recently that Ireland announced
Speaker 2: that they've cut their men's program. There's been reports recently
Speaker 2: that Great Britain are going to take their men's and
Speaker 2: women's programs back to or they're not going to be
Speaker 2: full time after July this year? Is there a bit
Speaker 2: of nervousness as a prominent World sevens player about the
Speaker 2: future of the game and the world series.
Speaker 9: The media coming out about SEVENS the last you know,
Speaker 9: a couple of months hasn't been great. Definitely doesn't paint
Speaker 9: a great picture for the games, especially coming off such
Speaker 9: a successful Olympic campaign for sevens. So there's definitely a
Speaker 9: bit of nervousness and rows across the group. I do
Speaker 9: think that the new product, if delivered world will be
Speaker 9: successful and will put SEVENS back into the place where
Speaker 9: it has been for so many years pre COVID, and
Speaker 9: it offers a great opportunity for all nations in set
Speaker 9: in sevens one, two and three to to develop and
Speaker 9: to have a shot at winning world titles and qualified
Speaker 9: to the Olympics. Is a very open competition. I guess
Speaker 9: it's a time will tell kind of situations that the
Speaker 9: first year goes well.
Speaker 5: I think I was gonna say paid. One of the
Speaker 5: biggest advantages rugby has is the SEVENS program. You can
Speaker 5: get a kid schools or rugby club, especially for the
Speaker 5: emails for the women joining rugby, and that's their biggest
Speaker 5: entree is the SEVENS program, And you know, to go
Speaker 5: to those skills and say, well you get a chance
Speaker 5: to potentially play in the Olympics. Other codes don't have.
Speaker 5: That's so hard, I'd say, especially in the women's program.
Speaker 5: It's a really important part of the ecosystem of rugby
Speaker 5: in Australia especially.
Speaker 9: Yeah, definitely, I think, you know, sometimes we're in our
Speaker 9: own little bubble in Australia. I would also say that
Speaker 9: SEVENS you know, especially in Asia right now, is what
Speaker 9: they're playing. It's only the rugby. It's only rugby game
Speaker 9: they know. You know, it's huge in Sri Lanka's huge
Speaker 9: in here in India. So this we need SEVENS to
Speaker 9: be visible in the rugby ecosystem at all times, and
Speaker 9: we need it to be a good product and exciting
Speaker 9: product for kids to want to play.
Speaker 4: And then in.
Speaker 9: Australia exactly right, a lot of the women playing rugby
Speaker 9: are only exposed to SEVENS while going through school and
Speaker 9: that's such a great product to retain and recruit talent
Speaker 9: but also develop talent and move talent onto.
Speaker 4: Super Rugby or Wallabies or wherever you want to go.
Speaker 9: So, you know, it's really important that we have a
Speaker 9: good strong sevens program here in Australia, but it's also
Speaker 9: super important that we have a good strong sevens product
Speaker 9: across the globe so we can get more players playing
Speaker 9: the game.
Speaker 3: You mentioned the Olympics and obviously we can remember those
Speaker 3: great I think a six days wasn't it like full
Speaker 3: stadiums in France there? So obviously the product is really
Speaker 3: received well at that Olympic stage. But I think something
Speaker 3: we've seen in Super rugby was like a lot of
Speaker 3: chopping and changing and it didn't help the comp and
Speaker 3: sevens is probably going through a little bit of that now.
Speaker 3: Do you hope that this new iteration is the one
Speaker 3: that you know it can be bettered down and just
Speaker 3: a bit of stability in that format?
Speaker 9: Definitely? I think yes. The key word there is stability.
Speaker 9: We've had you know, sixteen men's teams go to.
Speaker 4: Twelve and they'll go to eight.
Speaker 9: We've had different amount of tournaments each year start at ten,
Speaker 9: makes year eleven, then eight and seven, so there's been
Speaker 9: no stability for the players but also for the viewers,
Speaker 9: which makes it really hard to follow. So Lord Rugbies
Speaker 9: committed to this new top eight model with seven's one,
Speaker 9: two and three for the next three years. So they're
Speaker 9: finalizing on the host cities, some new host cities to
Speaker 9: bring the rugby sevens game back to rugby markets. So
Speaker 9: it's not all just about growing the game in small markets,
Speaker 9: you know, trying to sell out, sell out the events,
Speaker 9: sell out some big stadiums or for the matter of fact,
Speaker 9: the right size stadium so twenty to thirty thousand stadiums
Speaker 9: and do that consistently will bring performances. We'll get people
Speaker 9: watching the game again and I think that'll be great
Speaker 9: for sevens in Australia but also global.
Speaker 6: Had you you talk about consistency, instability, and you've been
Speaker 6: in that program for ten plus years almost now and
Speaker 6: had had some time in Super fifteen's as well. Great career.
Speaker 6: But so the Indian Premier League comes in, right, you
Speaker 6: talk about consistency and as a player you get excited
Speaker 6: about opportunity and this concept of innovation. Can you see
Speaker 6: these two complimenting each other. It's about growth of game.
Speaker 6: We know that sevens is a growth model, but it
Speaker 6: also is an elite performance Olympic sport. So sometimes those
Speaker 6: two don't go together. You don't want to be a
Speaker 6: traveling road show, but you want a complimentary product. What's
Speaker 6: your experience over there now? And how do you think
Speaker 6: the delivery of World seven series is going to complement
Speaker 6: India and vice versa.
Speaker 9: Yeah, definitely, you know, I think seven has always been
Speaker 9: pushed and pulled on of the elite. We're trying to
Speaker 9: win a gold medal and yes, but also we're trying
Speaker 9: to get the best talent in Australia, to develop them
Speaker 9: and then send them on to all of the honors
Speaker 9: as well. So it's getting that balance, right, I think
Speaker 9: this IPL, so this RPL obviously a great opportunity for
Speaker 9: this to allow players to stay in the rugby seven system.
Speaker 9: You know, so many times players leave the program to
Speaker 9: go to AW, go to a new team or a
Speaker 9: different league, and that hinders the talent that we have
Speaker 9: in the Australian team. This RPL, if worked together with Rugby,
Speaker 9: with World Rugby, you know, should complement each other. It's
Speaker 9: another great avenue for you know sevens esteem the SEVENS
Speaker 9: players to play somewhere else, to play with other players,
Speaker 9: to have a new experience, but also to get another
Speaker 9: form of payment. You know, to to increase some revenue streams,
Speaker 9: which allows them to say, hey, look I can really
Speaker 9: have a career playing sevens, you know, give my best
Speaker 9: to making sure that we are competing for a gold
Speaker 9: medal when it comes, but also to help develop the
Speaker 9: best new talent coming out of Australia and I can
Speaker 9: go to India or if it changes, it goes to
Speaker 9: Strilank in a couple of years, you know, once or
Speaker 9: twice a year to really boost my income and I
Speaker 9: can have a really successful career.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no doubt.
Speaker 2: Well, Rugby's, as you say, keeping a close eye on it.
Speaker 1: They're invested in.
Speaker 2: I know Rugby Australia also very interested to see how
Speaker 2: it goes as well, this franchise model. But you've been
Speaker 2: over there for a couple of weeks now, Hutch training
Speaker 2: hard and even doing some coaching clinics like what's the
Speaker 2: rugby ecosystem is a word we love on this show.
Speaker 2: What's it like in India and what's the experience been like?
Speaker 2: When do you play against your Aussie teammate and Maurice
Speaker 2: Longbottom and those sort of things.
Speaker 9: We actually have a scratch match against Nozin's team this
Speaker 9: afternoon so our first kind of feeling out, so he
Speaker 9: should expect some flying elbows into his head to actually,
Speaker 9: I'll probably miss him if I fly with my elbow.
Speaker 9: Maybe some flying knees. Look, there's definitely appetite here. You know,
Speaker 9: there's twenty five million people here in Mumbai. We're owned
Speaker 9: by Dream Sports and they're in a massive online platform
Speaker 9: for fantasy cricket in India, Dream eleven and they have
Speaker 9: two hundred and sixty eight million users and their idea
Speaker 9: is to create a RPL fantasy platform in India.
Speaker 1: So there's so much potential.
Speaker 9: Obviously, a lot of thet a lot of the Indians
Speaker 9: don't know what rugby is. Rugby is usually played in
Speaker 9: places from humble beginnings. So to get it out on
Speaker 9: their mainstream media, that on TV for fourteen days straights
Speaker 9: in the city of Mumbai, where they believe that's where
Speaker 9: the city is where dreams come alive, is crucial. You know,
Speaker 9: if we can just get a drop in the ocean
Speaker 9: of that population to buy in on rugby, you know,
Speaker 9: who knows where this could go.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's pretty exciting.
Speaker 2: Comp runs from the fifteenth to the twenty ninth to
Speaker 2: June and we'll be keeping an eye on when you
Speaker 2: and James Turner, Ozzie and Mumbai teammate do in earnest
Speaker 2: come head to head with mys. Great to chat to you, Hutch,
Speaker 2: All the best over there.
Speaker 1: Awesome thanks having on guys.
Speaker 5: Stay away from the rogan Josh.
Speaker 2: Yeah, fantastic to see those Ozzie sevens guys as well
Speaker 2: as the women's national coach Tim Walsh is over there coaching,
Speaker 2: as Hutch said, the Mumbai Dreamers as well.
Speaker 1: In that competition.
Speaker 2: Those Ossies doing well abroad and there's some over in
Speaker 2: the UK doing really well also.
Speaker 10: A fumingly good tribes well beyond the ten meter line.
Speaker 6: It's drawing the penalty as well. And holla holla, he's.
Speaker 10: Releasing clarisy, rapping down a side of red. Is it
Speaker 10: clarisic on the line? First blood, an.
Speaker 5: Instant m punch, first touch for the Australian.
Speaker 1: Putting the Tiger's buck in fronts what to try that
Speaker 1: was by?
Speaker 2: Is he perici helping the Michael Checker coach Lester Tigers
Speaker 2: into the English Premiership final or they will take on Bath.
Speaker 2: You spoke to Michael Checker in recent days. He's the
Speaker 2: chance of picking up another piece of silverware and going
Speaker 2: to a level that no other coach in the world
Speaker 2: has gone to.
Speaker 1: But I found interesting in your interview with him.
Speaker 2: Two comments he made was that he doesn't feel like
Speaker 2: there's any place for him in Australian rugby anymore, and
Speaker 2: that he could never coach Queensland. We know the Red's
Speaker 2: job's going to be vacant mid twenty twenty six. Why
Speaker 2: do you think he feels like he's not wanted here. Well,
Speaker 2: we've just got chatting about what's next. Obviously he's got
Speaker 2: this because he's done doing one season. Lester has told
Speaker 2: them that he's not staying. Remarkably, you could win a
Speaker 2: comp in one year, which is incredible. We're just chatting
Speaker 2: about what's next for him, and he was talking.
Speaker 5: About does he want to come home?
Speaker 4: He is coming home.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So he and his family moved home after I
Speaker 3: finished up with Argentina. They was but based in France
Speaker 3: and the Lester thing came about very quickly, so the
Speaker 3: family stayed hit and he basically gave his assurance that
Speaker 3: he would come home. So, yes, he's looking for to
Speaker 3: spend some time at home. One of those options is
Speaker 3: rugby League. He's made no secret of looking at that.
Speaker 3: But yeah, his comment was there's there's no future for
Speaker 3: me in rugby and Australia, and I think that was
Speaker 3: based off that he was interested in the Warrortize vacancy
Speaker 3: when it was up and didn't get a look in,
Speaker 3: and then was obviously interested in the Wallabies as well.
Speaker 3: Had a coffee with Phil war that didn't go anywhere either.
Speaker 3: I mean, he wasn't bitter about it. He was saying, like,
Speaker 3: I understand, you know, it's not not saying it in
Speaker 3: a negative way. But if I was to coach in Australia,
Speaker 3: it would be rugby league. If I was to coach
Speaker 3: keep coaching rugby union, I'd have to go back overseas.
Speaker 4: So that was one element.
Speaker 3: The other the other element was I said, well there
Speaker 3: are rugby jobs coming up, you know, you know, the
Speaker 3: Queensland Reds are going to be looking to replace Les
Speaker 3: Kiss and he said I couldn't coach Queensland and I
Speaker 3: laughed at that and he said, no, no, seriously, I
Speaker 3: couldn't coach Queensland. There's some rivalries that means something, so
Speaker 3: you know, now never know with Check like he's a
Speaker 3: very passionate guy, he said, he said that would be
Speaker 3: like meet coaching monster against Leinster, you know, like's he
Speaker 3: feels that. But as was pointed out, he coached another
Speaker 3: nation against the Wallaby, so who knows that might have been.
Speaker 5: There should be enough water that's gone under the bridge
Speaker 5: now and board members are left and railing Castle's gone
Speaker 5: a long period of time now for Michael Checker to
Speaker 5: come back. I just don't think we're going to afford
Speaker 5: to lose him if he comes back to Australia. Rugby
Speaker 5: can't afford to lose the ip intellect, the coaching ability
Speaker 5: of if check even if he goes and coaches coaches
Speaker 5: of Super Rugby level or coaches junior coaches, we lose
Speaker 5: too many of those younger coaches and you go back
Speaker 5: to Queensland Red. So surely that he'd be in a
Speaker 5: conversation for the Queensland Red's coaching role if he wants
Speaker 5: to coach again.
Speaker 2: But I think from Queensland's perspective probably, But as Pato's saying,
Speaker 2: Checker does not consider himself as a proud New South
Speaker 2: Welshman being able to do that role given the rivalry
Speaker 2: between New South Wales and Queensland. To your point about
Speaker 2: but water under the bridge, I don't think it's got
Speaker 2: anything to do with bad blood anymore. I think reading
Speaker 2: what he said to you, Pato is it's more about
Speaker 2: there's only a couple of jobs in Australian rugby that
Speaker 2: Checker would still like to do.
Speaker 6: So I mean it's waiting to be offered a job.
Speaker 6: I mean, as he applied for any Australian jobs, well
Speaker 6: the Queen's then, so I mean, you know, and also okay,
Speaker 6: everyone's got a price. I didn't think i'd play for
Speaker 6: the Lauretares against the Brumbies, but I did. It's about opportunity.
Speaker 6: I wanted to stay in Australian rugby and try and
Speaker 6: be a Wallaby. So if Michael Checker wants to come
Speaker 6: and coach in Australia, then he probably needs to know.
Speaker 6: He's a great coach. He's a great motive own a
Speaker 6: great coach. And let's not forget also PETI thank Hewitt
Speaker 6: has been very good in Japan, so it'd be great
Speaker 6: to see Michael Checker bring Peter Cwtt. He's clearly got
Speaker 6: a very good relationship with him, and we talk about
Speaker 6: coach chating combinations all the time that a complimentary We
Speaker 6: know Michael Checker is a certain type of coach and
Speaker 6: maybe Peter Hewtt, so maybe it's a package deal and
Speaker 6: maybe he's waiting for that the right environment to bring in.
Speaker 6: That's another Australian coach you bring back on shore. So
Speaker 6: I think the conundrum that Australian rugby's got to solve
Speaker 6: for is that we just don't have as many high
Speaker 6: powered seats as we would like to seat a high
Speaker 6: powered coach, which Michael Checker is.
Speaker 5: The challenge with the Queens and Red's job is he
Speaker 5: got a very good chairman there and Brett Clark, he's
Speaker 5: done a wonderful job. You've got Dave Haddon CEO. He's
Speaker 5: been a great CEO for long period of time at
Speaker 5: GM in Sam Cordingly, and they control what goes on
Speaker 5: at the Queens and Reds. There's no reliance now on
Speaker 5: Rugby Australia. They're obviously separate compared to the Brumbies in
Speaker 5: New South Wales. So Michael Checker, if he went to
Speaker 5: the Queens and Reds, he would want a fair bit
Speaker 5: of control.
Speaker 1: Just because of the nature of how he the nature of.
Speaker 5: Michael Checker in the coaching perspective. Also with the recruitment.
Speaker 5: He does a great job there, but he want more
Speaker 5: control than I reckon the Queensland Reds would be willing
Speaker 5: to give away.
Speaker 2: Can I throw a complete hypothetical actually here if one
Speaker 2: of two jobs that Checker would take or be interested
Speaker 2: in in Australia is the war Atars, the other being
Speaker 2: the Wallabies, and we know that's off the table.
Speaker 1: The Wartarz is too. But if that's the case and
Speaker 1: the Reds looking, I know where you go.
Speaker 2: Now, given that Rugby Australia controls the Wartars, could we
Speaker 2: look at maybe moving Dan mckeller, who is a Queenslander
Speaker 2: and I believe previously has stated an interest in one
Speaker 2: day coaching the Reds, move him to Queensland and take
Speaker 2: over there after Les Kiss and Michael Checker takes over
Speaker 2: the war Tars.
Speaker 5: Again interesting one.
Speaker 3: I don't think Dan would want to do it, you know,
Speaker 3: like he's committed to coaching the war a Tars and
Speaker 3: winning a comp with them, and we're probably no reason
Speaker 3: to doubt that commitment. I just I think that if
Speaker 3: the thing about Checker at the moment is that like,
Speaker 3: for whatever reason, and you're right, I don't know those
Speaker 3: how those processes go, like do you send your CV
Speaker 3: or do you wait?
Speaker 4: When you're at a certain level, do you wait for
Speaker 4: someone to ring you?
Speaker 6: I think if you're that high, yeah, check it's that
Speaker 6: high that I think it would be in a front
Speaker 6: to expect that he's going to apply for a job
Speaker 6: and go so and that takes that takes also a
Speaker 6: brave organization to go straight to that and then with
Speaker 6: stand scrutiny if it doesn't work out, Because the first
Speaker 6: thing that people go to and think when appointments don't
Speaker 6: work out is what was the process? Who was involved,
Speaker 6: who was consulted, who approved this? Those sorts of things
Speaker 6: came into question.
Speaker 5: That's a follow up from Phil Wall c Rubbie Australia.
Speaker 5: Check what would you like to do if you came
Speaker 5: back to Australia. He might have three or four options,
Speaker 5: and he goes, let's try and.
Speaker 1: Coach the Wall.
Speaker 6: It should be that phone conversation should be happening with
Speaker 6: Petty Hewitt.
Speaker 4: Yeah, Petty Hewitt's obviously that's got fart.
Speaker 6: He's just finished up a kind of what's he doing?
Speaker 5: We lose a lot of that when they're when they're
Speaker 5: at the next level.
Speaker 6: You look at.
Speaker 5: Ben mull and those type of coaches, you want them
Speaker 5: to go to the next level.
Speaker 3: So the thing that you know, for whatever reason, he's
Speaker 3: been viewed as a square peg at the moment, right
Speaker 3: there's the new rugby Australian system under under Dan Herbert
Speaker 3: and Phil Wore and Peter Horn is too for alignment
Speaker 3: and for everyone to be rowing in the same boat.
Speaker 6: I don't think he's a square peg.
Speaker 1: He's type of.
Speaker 6: View. It's not square peg.
Speaker 4: Yeah, he's been that way.
Speaker 6: That's that's a different person. Your man. Square peg implies
Speaker 6: aduced and difficult.
Speaker 3: No, No, I'm just saying he's been viewed as as
Speaker 3: someone who doesn't fit what they're looking for at the moment.
Speaker 6: Well, look at correct, look at all the things that
Speaker 6: we're celebrating about. You know, the contrast between Michael Chick
Speaker 6: and j Smith, for instance, sides the fact that I
Speaker 6: both coached at Leinster, it would be really interesting to
Speaker 6: see you players have been coached by both to experience
Speaker 6: those sorts of different north and South.
Speaker 5: Made Michael Checker's best coaching structure is away from Australia.
Speaker 5: He's had enormous success with Argentina and I.
Speaker 3: Think that, I mean, we're putting this on on Rugby
Speaker 3: Australia needs to figure out how to get Michael Checker home.
Speaker 4: Michael Checker may have to figure out what he's.
Speaker 5: Not doing that he doesn't get the phone, that doesn't get.
Speaker 3: The phone calls and come to you know, come to
Speaker 3: Jesus meeting where they figure out okay mate, yeah you
Speaker 3: know you are a winner. How many how many Australian
Speaker 3: coaches are doing what Michael Checker has done?
Speaker 2: No coach, no coach at the Celtic League, a super
Speaker 2: rugby So how do we get and if he adds
Speaker 2: an English.
Speaker 4: Pro, how do we get to the point where this
Speaker 4: guy is in this training system?
Speaker 3: That is a conversation that you know, if we get
Speaker 3: around the table and say here's what's why you didn't
Speaker 3: get a call for that and check and Checking could
Speaker 3: say well I can I can move to that.
Speaker 5: You know that conversation has got to happen before he
Speaker 5: comes back and gets calls from rugby league clubs.
Speaker 6: He'd be getting calls definitely, and.
Speaker 1: He's he's also let's not forget he's a fashion mogul
Speaker 1: as well.
Speaker 6: We've been on the other side of the world for
Speaker 6: how long out you know. Yeah, man, the man is
Speaker 6: and the whole family unit. You know he's probably a
Speaker 6: lot well yeah, I mean everyone does right, Everyone does
Speaker 6: different things to promote and work out what's right for them.
Speaker 6: But you know that that's a person and a family
Speaker 6: unit that you know, you're getting into territory where that
Speaker 6: austraining rugby should and needs to mobilize to find an opportunity.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we've talked about coaches and development of coaches and repatriating, etc.
Speaker 2: But it's it's an interesting topic. Given checks continued success
Speaker 2: and we wish him all the best.
Speaker 1: To bring Check back in the English Premiership Final.
Speaker 2: This weekend against Bath and you'll be able to watch
Speaker 2: it on a stand. Sports Cracking absolutely be a good one. Gentlemen,
Speaker 2: We're going to quick fire through a bit of mail
Speaker 2: bag here because there's some good questions and we haven't
Speaker 2: been there in a couple of weeks. Start with Hugh Tindall.
Speaker 2: I might just come to you on paido for an
Speaker 2: update update. Huge Tindle asks any more info on the
Speaker 2: Super Rugby a i e. The new third tier proper
Speaker 2: comm with a trophy. Your just extended preseason trials.
Speaker 3: It'll be a proper comp I think it's just obviously
Speaker 3: the super rugby teams.
Speaker 5: Three games or six games.
Speaker 3: I'm not entirely short. I think it'll be a short
Speaker 3: run thing. It'll run during September. It won't clash with
Speaker 3: Club Rugby, which is important. It'll be obviously all the
Speaker 3: state based teams. You might even find the assistant coaches
Speaker 3: take more responsibility for the for the head coaching thing
Speaker 3: a great opportunity for these guys to just get more
Speaker 3: high level footy. Talking about calling it the super A
Speaker 3: or the super b, which you have thoughts on.
Speaker 1: That's my only problem.
Speaker 2: I think the moment you call a competition something a
Speaker 2: like the a version of a pre existing name, you
Speaker 2: take away some of the validity of it, and I
Speaker 2: think you automatically make people think maybe I.
Speaker 6: Won't be as interesting super rugous.
Speaker 4: Let's call it the Horn Cup, the Horn Payton Cup.
Speaker 4: One legend I like Superbia super Abous.
Speaker 2: Yeah, perfect, this one for you, good because I think
Speaker 2: it'll get your fight up from DQ. Does CANBRA deserve
Speaker 2: a team like the Brumbies? They are successful and entertaining it.
Speaker 2: Fans don't turn up. They didn't have a huge crowd
Speaker 2: on the weekend for the qualifying final. Not sure what
Speaker 2: difference a new stadium will make. Should they move to
Speaker 2: Western Sydney.
Speaker 6: No, they shouldn't move to Western Sydney. They should maintain
Speaker 6: the validity of what they're doing down there, the presence
Speaker 6: in the Southern Highlands and New South Wales South Midwest region.
Speaker 6: You know again, I was in Orange Under thirteen state
Speaker 6: carnivals and act Brumby's junior side there. There are teams
Speaker 6: from all down south there that are engaged in rugby
Speaker 6: because of the Brumbies model, so that's actually valid. The
Speaker 6: thing about Western Sydney is a New South Wales Rugby
Speaker 6: union consideration and the war Retars organization and now Rugby
Speaker 6: Australia because they're both verticals, so there is an opportunity
Speaker 6: there to work out what's going to enhance the model
Speaker 6: for Western Sydney. It is not moving the Brummies out
Speaker 6: of somewhere and turning it into a ghost town. We
Speaker 6: know that we want more crowds there and engage with it,
Speaker 6: but that program is producing. Don't forget sixty to seventy
Speaker 6: percent of a Wallaby group that are coming through every
Speaker 6: year year on you that is a valid high performance
Speaker 6: chain and step in the system.
Speaker 5: And the Brummis do a great job pregame post game
Speaker 5: with face painting for kids. A lot of people turn up,
Speaker 5: but their average crowd is only nine thousand people. So
Speaker 5: I reckon they've got to resuscitate somehow their home games.
Speaker 5: I'd be taking a game to wag or, I'd be
Speaker 5: taking game to Aubrey, I'd potentially take a home game
Speaker 5: to Melbourne. You've got to do something in that state.
Speaker 5: I know you're taking games outside of AC two.
Speaker 1: That's not going to improve the crowd in Camera.
Speaker 2: And the original question from DQ is does does do
Speaker 2: Camera deserve a team what the Brummy is because they
Speaker 2: do success.
Speaker 6: Of course they do.
Speaker 5: But take a game. To take a game to the Vikings,
Speaker 5: you might get six thousand people full house. You've got
Speaker 5: to do something. If you do the same thing next year,
Speaker 5: you're going to get an average crowd of nine thousand people.
Speaker 4: The club. The club have been ken on a couple
Speaker 4: of things.
Speaker 3: One is to try and get this new stage built
Speaker 3: in Civic, which you know there's no political will to
Speaker 3: do it, no money to do it. As well, if
Speaker 3: they did that then you know, a covered stadium, you
Speaker 3: might start to get better crowds. The other thing they
Speaker 3: want to do is play more in the sunshine, right,
Speaker 3: this is what the Raiders do well. They apply for
Speaker 3: games in the daylight for you know, financial reasons. It's
Speaker 3: better off being played in primetime in the evening.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 4: The weather is not the only factor, but it is
Speaker 4: a factor.
Speaker 3: It's it's it's a pretty pretty cold old night down
Speaker 3: there in Canberra as the season goes on. So if
Speaker 3: the Brumbies could just be given a couple of arvo
Speaker 3: games fish where the fish are punters want to They
Speaker 3: want to suffer for the for the love of their
Speaker 3: team all the time.
Speaker 4: You know, give the Rumby some day games and I
Speaker 4: reckon the crowds will go up.
Speaker 2: Interesting though they had day games last year, I'm not
Speaker 2: sure the crowds responded the way they expected. And even
Speaker 2: on the weekend the Raiders played Sunday in worse conditions
Speaker 2: daytime and it was a massive crowd.
Speaker 1: But I do take your point.
Speaker 5: Both those qualifying finals, one in christ Church was in
Speaker 5: christ Church that was a poor crowd as well, and
Speaker 5: the Brumby so both were about two degrees.
Speaker 2: It's not confined to keep absolutely And as you said,
Speaker 2: the Brumbies do some great things. They had some initiatives
Speaker 2: this year, the stable trying to get university students along
Speaker 2: a bit like the zoo in Duneeden. They had ticket
Speaker 2: promotions alongside the camera raiders.
Speaker 6: So it's nice city either. I mean the communis of
Speaker 6: scale have Brisbane and Sydney enjoying the fallout of people
Speaker 6: with discretionary income and just weight of numbers.
Speaker 5: Well there's the case to take it Western Sydney, but
Speaker 5: well it's not.
Speaker 6: But then numbers, the numbers are still down. Well the
Speaker 6: pnatheene used and different and you said, well, as Rugby
Speaker 6: need to tip resource into development program.
Speaker 3: Your point is there's a much deeper topic. But there's
Speaker 3: a net game there right like do we is the
Speaker 3: one measure of success? How many people come into the
Speaker 3: gate to watch them, you know, like the Wallabies, as
Speaker 3: you say, are getting a buccaload of good stuff out
Speaker 3: of the Brumbies program. To move the Brumbies program, to
Speaker 3: drastically change the Brumby's program, just to try to get
Speaker 3: more five thousand more people.
Speaker 5: Wallabies win test matches with more Brumbies players in no
Speaker 5: one's talking about the crowd.
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely great discussion, gentlemen, not as great. That's a
Speaker 2: rat On insideline this week.
Speaker 9: What