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Speaker 1: The Australian Financial Review. It was because I didn't want

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Speaker 1: to say that I wasn't a performer anymore. My ego

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Speaker 1: didn't want to say that I was no longer in

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Speaker 1: that industry. And it was because it felt like I

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Speaker 1: was a failure. It's such a simple concept that really

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Speaker 1: is around creating habits that support you in being the

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Speaker 1: best version of yourself.

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Speaker 2: Hi. I'm Sally Patton, editor of Boss from the Australian

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Speaker 2: Financial Review, and welcome to fift Demons with the Boss,

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Speaker 2: a podcast about success and failure and everything in between.

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Speaker 2: And along the way we're having to get some great

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Speaker 2: advice from our leaders. Day is Trevor Holland, the Managing

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Speaker 2: director of Lululemon in Australia and New Zealand. Hi, Trevor,

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Speaker 2: how are you great?

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Speaker 1: Thanks Sally, how are you.

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Speaker 2: Very well? And thank you so much for coming into

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Speaker 2: our Melbourne studio.

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Speaker 1: Great to be here, Trevor.

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Speaker 2: As I said, you're the MD of Lululemon in Australia

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Speaker 2: and New Zealand. Lululemon being an athletic clothing retailer, but

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Speaker 2: I must admit I still think of you as a

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Speaker 2: retailer of Fantastic yoga pants and tops. The company is

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Speaker 2: headquartered in Vancouver in Canada. In Australia and New Zealand,

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Speaker 2: you have forty one stores and globally there are now

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Speaker 2: around seven hundred and sixty stores. In Australia. I believe

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Speaker 2: you've got about thirteen hundred employees, and in terms of merchandise,

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Speaker 2: I believe you're moving into outfits that can be worn

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Speaker 2: both during exercise and casually as well. So are you

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Speaker 2: a bit of a yoga fiend yourself? Do you get

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Speaker 2: up and do yoga in the mornings.

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Speaker 1: I am not a consistent practice, but I do practice yoga.

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Speaker 1: I find every time I do do a yoga class,

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Speaker 1: I'm reminded of how much it actually supports me mentally,

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Speaker 1: how it frees my mind, and how it really grounds me.

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Speaker 2: I must have been. I'm always reminded about how much

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Speaker 2: it hurts. But still so, Trevor, We've only got fifteen minutes.

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Speaker 2: Let's start the clock right now. My first question is

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Speaker 2: about your morning routine. What time do you get up,

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Speaker 2: what happens? Are you a coffee drinker?

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Speaker 1: I'm absolutely a coffee drinker. My alarm goes off around

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Speaker 1: five point forty five and about four times a week,

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Speaker 1: I have a consistent workout that I like to do.

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Speaker 1: The other mornings, I really listen to what my body needs.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes I'll get up, I'll run, sometimes I'll go for

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Speaker 1: a walk, but just depending on where I'm at on

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Speaker 1: that day. And I like to be in the office

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Speaker 1: somewhere between seven thirty eight o'clock depending on what the

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Speaker 1: morning routine has been. But as far as the coffee goes,

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Speaker 1: I have a ritual where I like to tick off

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Speaker 1: something that is on my to do list, depending on

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Speaker 1: how long it takes, one to three things, and then

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Speaker 1: I reward myself with a coffee. The concept of eat

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Speaker 1: that frog, which is do the thing that's hard and

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Speaker 1: get it out the way for the day, and then

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Speaker 1: I head off to get a coffee.

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Speaker 2: And in terms of the routine that you do four

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Speaker 2: days a week, what do you do?

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Speaker 1: I go to a workout called strong So it's a

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Speaker 1: forty five minute class mixed between strength and cardio. It

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Speaker 1: is on a reformer Pilarate's bed and it's linked with

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Speaker 1: either a rowing machine or a bike and you change

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Speaker 1: between strength and cardio.

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Speaker 2: Okay, now, Trevor, tell me about a pivotal moment in

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Speaker 2: your career. Was there a project you worked on, or

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Speaker 2: something that you did, or a promotion you were given

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Speaker 2: that changed the path of what you were doing.

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Speaker 1: Musical theater is my background, and that was, I would say,

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Speaker 1: my first career. It was what I'd always strived to do.

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Speaker 1: It was, you know, I danced from a young age,

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Speaker 1: and I always thought that I would remain in that

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Speaker 1: industry one way.

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Speaker 2: Or another, say as an administrator.

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Speaker 1: Whether I was performing or potentially like on the creative

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Speaker 1: side of things. As my body slowed down and I

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Speaker 1: got to a point my husband and I had just

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Speaker 1: worked on cruise ships for five years, and I was

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Speaker 1: teaching six days a week, and I just became burnt out.

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Speaker 1: I was having to be creative for my job to

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Speaker 1: pay the bills, and the creativity was dying, and so

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Speaker 1: I came to Lutle Lemon. My thought was, I want

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Speaker 1: a job where I don't need to think about anything

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Speaker 1: creatively and I can switch off and during that time,

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Speaker 1: I'm going to start to work out what is next.

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Speaker 1: I felt like I was at a phase where my

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Speaker 1: performing was slowing down and it was time for something else.

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Speaker 1: So I came to lule Lemon, and it's almost seventeen

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Speaker 1: years I'm still here. But I think the pivotal thing

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Speaker 1: was where I really shifted mentally from it being a

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Speaker 1: job to seeing that there actually could be a new

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Speaker 1: career in this for me.

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Speaker 2: And what was your first job at Little Lemon?

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Speaker 1: I was an educator, so I worked on the shop floor.

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Speaker 1: It's like a sales assistant, and I was literally working

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Speaker 1: one day a week.

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Speaker 2: So how did you move from becoming a casual shop

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Speaker 2: assistant to where you are now?

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Speaker 1: About a year in I'd progress through the retail roles

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Speaker 1: and became a store manager and that's where I could

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Speaker 1: really see that there was a future there. And I

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Speaker 1: actually spent eight years of my time at the company

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Speaker 1: in learning and leadership. So that was where I started

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Speaker 1: on my own as an individual contributor and developed across

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Speaker 1: the eight years to become the manager across Asia Pacific.

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Speaker 1: But I would say how I got here is a

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Speaker 1: whole lot of leaders who were invested in my development

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Speaker 1: and then working hard to get there.

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Speaker 2: So did you go and purposefully find leaders who would

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Speaker 2: invest in you? Was that part of your trajectory I did?

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Speaker 1: I think I had a mix of leaders who were

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Speaker 1: my manager, who were really invested in my future and

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Speaker 1: where I wanted to go, and then also connected with

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Speaker 1: people that weren't necessarily in side the company but could

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Speaker 1: give me insights, could give me development, could give me

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Speaker 1: understanding outside of the business as well.

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Speaker 2: Okay, I love that. My next question is what is

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Speaker 2: the best piece of career advice you've ever been given?

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Speaker 1: At Lilman, we have a practice of vision and goals,

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Speaker 1: and it really is around creating a vision for your

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Speaker 1: life sometime in the future and in creating goals to

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Speaker 1: be able to get there. And that is from a

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Speaker 1: career perspective, personal life, health, any sort of realm that

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Speaker 1: is important to you. And so early on I had

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Speaker 1: a very clear vision that my future would be somehow

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Speaker 1: involved in the arts and in the industry of performing

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Speaker 1: and the advice I got was have that vision, hold

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Speaker 1: that vision, and be okay that how you get there

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Speaker 1: may be different to what you expect, and then be

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Speaker 1: okay for someone else to open a door that you

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Speaker 1: don't necessarily see as a possibility for you.

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Speaker 2: Interesting and what's your current vision.

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Speaker 1: I've recently moved into this role five months ago, and

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Speaker 1: so so I have a vision around how I lead

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Speaker 1: and the team that I support and develop and inspire

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Speaker 1: team is how we get results. Any results come through people.

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Speaker 1: I find that I work best when I work in

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Speaker 1: a group and in a team, and I think bringing

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Speaker 1: in everyone's skills and everyone's strengths is where a team

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Speaker 1: works best. It's like a sporting team. Everyone knows their

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Speaker 1: role collectively is when they come together is where they're

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Speaker 1: they're most effective. And I find that you know from

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Speaker 1: a cast from performing, it's the same sort of thing.

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Speaker 1: You're leveraging people's strengths, putting them in the right places

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Speaker 1: on stage, whereas this is not on a stage, but

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Speaker 1: it still is leveraging people's strengths.

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Speaker 2: Trevor, on that note, don't go away. We are going

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Speaker 2: to take a short break and when we come back,

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Speaker 2: we're going to open the chatterbox. I'll see you soon.

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Speaker 2: Welcome back to fifty Men's with the Boss. I'm here

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Speaker 2: with Trevor Holland, the managing director of Lulu Lemon in

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Speaker 2: Australia and New Zealand. Now, Trevor, this is our section

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Speaker 2: called the Chatterbox. Normally I would ask you to pick

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Speaker 2: out questions from the box, which today has got about

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Speaker 2: fifteen questions in it. But because you're in Melbourne and

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Speaker 2: I'm not, you're going to have to trust me to

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Speaker 2: pick out questions on your behalf. Sorry about that. Are

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Speaker 2: you ready for me to start fishing on your behalf? I?

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Speaker 1: Sure?

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Speaker 2: I am, Okay, let's go here we are. If you

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Speaker 2: could swap jobs with somebody else for a week, who

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Speaker 2: would it be and why or what type of job

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Speaker 2: would you step into.

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Speaker 1: I always saw myself stepping into a creative role, whether

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Speaker 1: that was a resident choreographer, a resident director of a musical.

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Speaker 1: That's where I thought my path would go. And I

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Speaker 1: stepped into Lulle Lemon before I stepped on that path,

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Speaker 1: and I often just have little thoughts of how would

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Speaker 1: that have been? Would I have enjoyed it? Would it

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Speaker 1: have been what I imagined it to be. So I

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Speaker 1: would love to step into that role and see if

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Speaker 1: it was everything that I have in my mind, and

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Speaker 1: I guess would I be any good at it? So?

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Speaker 2: At what point did you decide that you were going

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Speaker 2: to actually give up dancing? How difficult was it and

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Speaker 2: what made you think that you could make a success

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Speaker 2: somewhere else.

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Speaker 1: I was about a year into my Little Lemon journey.

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Speaker 1: I was a store manager and I was working forty

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Speaker 1: hours a week for lutlle Lemon, and I'd got rid

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Speaker 1: of more and more teaching, which was how I was

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Speaker 1: making my money prior, and I kept one day of teaching.

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Speaker 1: It was because I didn't want to say that I

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Speaker 1: wasn't a performer anymore. My ego didn't want to say

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Speaker 1: that I was no longer in that industry. And if

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Speaker 1: I saw someone, I would still say to them, I'm

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Speaker 1: teaching quite a bit and I'm still working out Little Lemon.

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Speaker 1: But I made it sound like Little Lemon was my

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Speaker 1: side job and it wasn't that way. And it was

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Speaker 1: because it felt like I was a failure in that industry,

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Speaker 1: stepping out and stepping into lul Lemon. And I would

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Speaker 1: say I had an internal struggle around that for a

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Speaker 1: good year of really enjoying what I was doing at

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Speaker 1: lul Lemon, but worried about what people thought. And I

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Speaker 1: got to a point where I was like, this is

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Speaker 1: making zero sense. I love what I'm doing, I love

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Speaker 1: who I'm working with, yet I want to put on

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Speaker 1: a different face for everyone else. And so I would

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Speaker 1: say the more I became confident with what I was

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Speaker 1: doing at lul Lemon. The more success I saw and

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Speaker 1: the more pathway I saw for a future career allowed

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Speaker 1: me to really disconnect from the performing And I would

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Speaker 1: say that the final straw was actually being able to

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Speaker 1: disconnect that performing was what I did, not who I was,

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Speaker 1: and that was probably the pivotal moment that allowed me

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Speaker 1: to step into a new career.

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Speaker 2: So that very moment that you decided to finally give

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Speaker 2: it up, do you still remember that moment?

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Speaker 1: I clearly do. I remember the day that I thought

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Speaker 1: I'm going to let go of this last piece of teaching.

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Speaker 1: I remember having the conversation with the dance studio that

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Speaker 1: I was working for at the time. And while there

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Speaker 1: was I guess a sense of sadness it was becoming real,

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Speaker 1: there was also a sense of relief which truly allowed

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Speaker 1: me to go okay. I can now fully look ahead

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Speaker 1: and not feeling like I was still a little bit

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Speaker 1: in the past.

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Speaker 2: And how old were you at the time, thirty five?

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Speaker 2: So what would you say to someone creative or not

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Speaker 2: who's wondering how they go about making that switch?

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Speaker 1: I think being open to what is out there, what

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Speaker 1: is beyond the performing What are the skills that you

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Speaker 1: have as a performer that are actually transferable into another industry?

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Speaker 1: You know, think about what excites you, where do your

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Speaker 1: passions lie, where your strengths lie. That can help you

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Speaker 1: identify a different path. And I'm not saying that that

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Speaker 1: is easy. When I first stepped into my leadership roles

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Speaker 1: at Little Lemon, the imposter syndrome would often come up

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Speaker 1: in financial situations, and I had a fun little thing

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Speaker 1: that I would say, Oh, my association with numbers is five, six, seven, eight,

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Speaker 1: And that was my way of trying to deflect where

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Speaker 1: I felt like I had a gap. And over time

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Speaker 1: I knew that that was where I needed to focus,

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Speaker 1: where I needed to upskill, and where I needed to learn,

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Speaker 1: and so I could reframe it as an opportunity as

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Speaker 1: opposed to a gap or a weakness. So what were the.

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Speaker 2: Key skills that you realized that you could transfer to

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Speaker 2: a different industry. I'm guessing that teamwork and collaboration would

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Speaker 2: be one of them or two of them.

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Speaker 1: Teamwork and collaboration. Even in the performing industry, I was

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Speaker 1: in a leadership role. I was a dance captain, which

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Speaker 1: would look after the shows, look after the team. When

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Speaker 1: I was teaching, I was in front of a room,

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Speaker 1: I was public speaking, I was facilitating, so a lot

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Speaker 1: of those skills I use now. I think facilitating a

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Speaker 1: room is like performing, you know, So it's very similar

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Speaker 1: and I feel very comfortable in that role.

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Speaker 2: Okay, interesting, I'm going to on that note, have another

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Speaker 2: fish in the box on your behalf. Here we go.

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Speaker 2: What's your favorite podcast or streaming show?

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Speaker 1: And why I don't listen to a lot of podcasts.

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Speaker 1: I would listen to an audiobook before a podcast.

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Speaker 2: And can you point to any audiobooks that you've really

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Speaker 2: liked recently?

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Speaker 1: A previous book that I've listened to that really resonated

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Speaker 1: with me was Atomic Habits and James Cleary. Yes, that

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Speaker 1: really is around creating habits that support you in being

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Speaker 1: the best version of yourself. It's such a simple concept

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Speaker 1: and linking those habits to what you're doing every day

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Speaker 1: in your day to day to really build habits.

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Speaker 2: Can you explain that.

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Speaker 1: If you're wanting to implement a new habit, think about

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Speaker 1: the times or the things that you do frequently each

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Speaker 1: day and link it to that. So it's not creating

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Speaker 1: it out of nowhere, it's actually linking it to something

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Speaker 1: that's already happening.

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Speaker 2: So for example, if you're making a cup of coffee,

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Speaker 2: you could add something to that like drink more protein

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Speaker 2: or do some stretching. You could link it to the

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Speaker 2: making of the coffee.

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Speaker 1: You could or you're brushing your teeth, and that's your

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Speaker 1: time for mindfulness, you know, to maybe close down your

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Speaker 1: eyes and to slow down the mind.

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Speaker 2: Okay, I'm going to have another go here we go.

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Speaker 2: What is your number one health hack.

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Speaker 1: In the past, I would have said physical health, whereas

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Speaker 1: these days my mind first went to just then was

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Speaker 1: mental health. How I actually disconnect, How I take time

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Speaker 1: to slow down, to clear my mind, to have a

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Speaker 1: mindful practice. Sometimes in the middle of the day, if

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Speaker 1: a call finishes early, or if I have a fifteen

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Speaker 1: minute break, I'll actually walk away and go for a

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Speaker 1: lot around the block just to remove myself from my screen.

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Speaker 1: I feel like sometimes my mind can feel like it's

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Speaker 1: got multiple tabs open at one time, and so really

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Speaker 1: taking that time to close down some of those tabs.

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Speaker 2: So what are the other things that you do to

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Speaker 2: try and disconnect and become mindful and calm your mind down.

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Speaker 1: I'm an introvert. I like time on my own. One

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Speaker 1: of the things that I do when I drive home,

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Speaker 1: I actually don't generally have anything on, so I listen

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Speaker 1: to audiobooks, sometimes, I radio sometimes music. On my way

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Speaker 1: into work. At the end of the day, when I'm

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Speaker 1: driving home, I actually don't have anything on and I

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Speaker 1: find that really calming. That allows me to decompress. It

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Speaker 1: allows me to think through anything from the day in

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Speaker 1: a different way. And then my drive home is around

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Speaker 1: forty five minutes, so by the time I get home,

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Speaker 1: I feel like I've disconnected from work and I'm ready

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Speaker 1: to be present for the evening.

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Speaker 2: On that note, you have passed the chatterbox section. I've

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Speaker 2: now got one final question, and that is, if you

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Speaker 2: weren't doing what you're doing now, if you weren't the

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Speaker 2: MD of Little Lemon in Australasia, what would you be doing.

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Speaker 1: In my past, I worked on cruise ships for five years,

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Speaker 1: so I got to travel quite a lot. And in

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Speaker 1: that industry, though, you can dock into a location and

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Speaker 1: dock out later that day and you don't get to

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Speaker 1: really experience the culture. I think travel is so important.

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Speaker 1: I get so energized by experiencing different countries, different cultures,

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Speaker 1: different people, and so if I wasn't doing this job,

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Speaker 1: it would be something around travel.

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Speaker 2: So specifically, where do you want to go?

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Speaker 1: Germany is on my list of places that I haven't been,

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Speaker 1: and one of the places that I've been and not

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Speaker 1: enough that I want to spend more time in is Spain.

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Speaker 1: I recently got married and so we are creating a

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Speaker 1: honeymoon desired destination list right now, and Spain is the

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Speaker 1: top of the list for both of us. So I

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Speaker 1: think taking the time and being able to explore the

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Speaker 1: entire country.

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Speaker 2: Okay, well, I wish you well on your honeymoon in Spain.

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Speaker 2: Thank you very much, and that is our time up. Trevor.

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Speaker 2: I really loved talking to you about how you have

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Speaker 2: made an effort and consciously searched for mentors. I love

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Speaker 2: the advice you give us about stepping away from a

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Speaker 2: career which you clearly love but you know you can't

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Speaker 2: do forever, and how you go about making that break,

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Speaker 2: making that change, and I agree James Cleary's book at

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Speaker 2: Tomic Habits, I love it, and I love your pickup

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Speaker 2: that you need to create habits that support personal growth.

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Speaker 2: And lastly, but very importantly, I hope you have a

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Speaker 2: wonderful time on your honeymoon. Good luck with all of that,

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Speaker 2: and thank you so much for allowing us to spend

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Speaker 2: fifteen minutes with the Boss. Thanks and thank you to

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Speaker 2: everyone for listening. Sadly, this is the last episode for

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Speaker 2: our head of podcast, lat Fan. Lap has been a

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Speaker 2: formidable force in putting this podcast together every week and

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Speaker 2: we really will miss him and we wish him luck

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Speaker 2: in his next adventure. If you like the podcast and

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Speaker 2: would like to hear more, consider sharing the podcast or

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Speaker 2: writing a review, as it helps us to reach more

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Speaker 2: people and follow us wherever you get your podcasts. At

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Speaker 2: The Financial Review, we investigate the big stories about markets,

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Speaker 2: business and power. For more, go to afar dot com

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Speaker 2: and you can subscribe to The Financial Review the daily

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Speaker 2: habit of successful people at afar dot com slash subscribe.

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Speaker 2: This podcast was hosted by me Sally Patton and produced

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Speaker 2: by Lapfan. Our theme is by Alex garr. Our head

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Speaker 2: of Podcast is lap Fan and the head of Premium

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Speaker 2: Content is Fiona Beffini.

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Speaker 1: The Australian Financial Review