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Speaker 1: Nine podcasts.

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Speaker 2: This is The Payoff with me Sylvia Jeffries. Thanks to

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Speaker 2: Belong Internet. Thanks for pressing play on this episode of

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Speaker 2: The Payoff. My name is Sylvia Jeffries. Well, you're gonna

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Speaker 2: want to settle in because we've got a jam packed

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Speaker 2: episode for you this week. We're covering a lot of

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Speaker 2: territory with this week's guest. She is an entrepreneur. She's

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Speaker 2: the co founder and CEO of Kick, co host of

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Speaker 2: the Kickpod, an author, an activist, and soon to be mum.

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Speaker 1: I am talking about Laura Henshaw.

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Speaker 2: Of course, I've been so excited to have Laura on

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Speaker 2: today's episode for a lot of reasons. I've known her

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Speaker 2: for a while and followed her journey with Kick and

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Speaker 2: creating that business, and in her personal mission in helping

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Speaker 2: women with living their best lives and feeling their best.

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Speaker 2: But over the last few weeks, Laura's taken on a

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Speaker 2: new challenge, one which takes on traditional money and gender beliefs.

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Speaker 2: She started this mini podcast series it's called Am I Equal?

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Speaker 2: And in it she's exploring the topic of the manosphere

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Speaker 2: and benevolent sexism. But look, she's got a lot to discuss,

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Speaker 2: including how she and.

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Speaker 1: Dalton preparing the parenthood, her.

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Speaker 2: Own relationship with personal finance and how her childhood has

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Speaker 2: really shaped that and informed it for her. So, look,

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Speaker 2: we've got a lot to talk about. So without further ado,

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Speaker 2: here is Laura Henshaw. Laura, I have been dying to

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Speaker 2: speak to you, and now I have even more reason

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Speaker 2: to speak to you because you have the best news.

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Speaker 1: In the world. You are pregnant. Congratulations.

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Speaker 3: Thank you so much. Thank you for having me love

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Speaker 3: the pod.

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Speaker 1: Oh how are you feeling.

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Speaker 3: I'm feeling good now.

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Speaker 4: So I'm now my second trimester, feeling much better than

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Speaker 4: the first trimester, I think as well. I've had time

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Speaker 4: now for it to sink in and to kind of

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Speaker 4: and I'm feeling really happy, which I'm very grateful for.

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Speaker 2: I remember the sort of bittersweet feeling of sharing the

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Speaker 2: news that you're pregnant, because it is a really sweet

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Speaker 2: little secret to sit on with your partner for a

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Speaker 2: while and then you release it to the world and

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Speaker 2: you get so much beautiful love back from people, but

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Speaker 2: you kind of enjoy sitting on the secret at the

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Speaker 2: same time, so it's a bit of a wrestle. How

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Speaker 2: are you feeling now that everybody knows your news.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's so true.

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Speaker 4: It did feel like our little secret, and we actually

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Speaker 4: told our friends and family quite early on, which felt

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Speaker 4: felt fine because I think if something happened, we would

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Speaker 4: have told them as well.

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Speaker 3: It does. It feels crazy to have it out in

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Speaker 3: the world. I think I was. I was definitely nervous

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Speaker 3: about it. It was interesting.

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Speaker 4: I was nervous to tell everyone, like my mum, I

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Speaker 4: knew everyone'd be happy for us. I was nervous to

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Speaker 4: tell Steph, my business partner, and ben best friend and kick.

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Speaker 4: And I was also nervous to tell the internet because

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Speaker 4: last year I went on a journey about working out

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Speaker 4: if I wanted to have kids or if I didn't.

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Speaker 4: I didn't know, and I knew that there are a

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Speaker 4: lot of people in the community that didn't want to

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Speaker 4: have kids. That maybe I just felt like, oh am,

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Speaker 4: I letting them down. And I did say in that podcast.

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Speaker 4: By the end, I'd made the decision I do want

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Speaker 4: to have kids, and obviously we have to make decisions

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Speaker 4: for ourselves, like we can't appease everyone because it's impossible.

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Speaker 4: But I did have this feeling like, oh am, I

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Speaker 4: going to let all these people down. But you know

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Speaker 4: it is what it is, and I've had a really

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Speaker 4: nice response, which is being nice.

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Speaker 2: Can I ask what it was in that process of

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Speaker 2: figuring out whether or not you want kids that was

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Speaker 2: the deciding factor for you in Dulton?

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Speaker 4: Oh?

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Speaker 3: Such a good question. So for me, one of the

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Speaker 3: biggest things was realizing that we can do it our way.

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Speaker 4: I think I had all of these fears about falling

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Speaker 4: pregnant and having children that were based on the way

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Speaker 4: that other people had raised their kids or integrated kids

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Speaker 4: into their lives, and I thought that because that was

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Speaker 4: how they did it, I had to do.

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Speaker 3: It like that.

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Speaker 4: And one of my biggest fears was losing my identity

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Speaker 4: and my entire identity becoming motherhood. And because there's obviously

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Speaker 4: that's amazing and there's no judgment to people that do that,

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Speaker 4: but there are so many things in my life that

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Speaker 4: I care so deeply about, and I had this fear

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Speaker 4: of losing them and losing myself and almost grieving this

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Speaker 4: the person that I am now and feeling like it

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Speaker 4: had to change. But over the journey, what I learned

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Speaker 4: was it's your journey, and you can do it as

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Speaker 4: we do in our lives with everything the way that

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Speaker 4: we want to do it, and that for me was

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Speaker 4: very freeing in knowing that I don't have to give

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Speaker 4: up my career, like it doesn't have to become going

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Speaker 4: to be a really important part of my life, but

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Speaker 4: it doesn't have to be the only thing.

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Speaker 3: Like I can be more than that.

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Speaker 4: And I think sometimes society puts pressure on women that

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Speaker 4: we have to be if we're mothers, like we have

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Speaker 4: to be one hundred percent mothers and nothing else.

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Speaker 1: Well on top of that, it's just expected that we

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Speaker 1: will be mothers.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, which I think it's so I found it so

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Speaker 2: compelling the way you've been so open about your process

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Speaker 2: with that, because there are a lot of women who

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Speaker 2: don't have that desire or urge or need to be

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Speaker 2: a mother.

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Speaker 1: For some people, it is like.

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Speaker 2: A primal instinct, right, but everybody is different. But there

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Speaker 2: is quite often, I think this this ability among some

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Speaker 2: people to just pigeonhole women all in the same basket,

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Speaker 2: as though that is the one way ticket to womanhood,

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Speaker 2: to sort of certified womanhood.

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Speaker 4: Or contributing to society. It's like the value that we're

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Speaker 4: meant to add to society.

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Speaker 2: So what has been the response from some people on

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Speaker 2: the internet with in terms of you committing to this

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Speaker 2: path in life now.

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Speaker 4: So the response has been interesting. Mainly it's been overwhelmingly positive.

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Speaker 4: I mean, of course, it's social media. It's never going

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Speaker 4: to be positive. We know that, Like it's just not possible.

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Speaker 4: It's been interesting, and I just I found it. I

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Speaker 4: didn't take offense by it. I think it's like it's

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Speaker 4: often people projecting if they're sharing things. But on our

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Speaker 4: announcement video, which I just shared a kind of little

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Speaker 4: snippet from me in my ultrasound, and there are a

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Speaker 4: few comments around like, oh my god, didn't you not

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Speaker 4: want kids a couple of months ago?

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Speaker 3: Like what are you doing?

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Speaker 4: And then also some comments around something that we'll speak

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Speaker 4: about later in like you hate men, like I hope

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Speaker 4: you had a.

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Speaker 3: Having a boy, like you shouldn't bring them into the world,

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Speaker 3: and kind of comments like that.

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Speaker 4: And I think what was very important in going back,

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Speaker 4: because I didn't always go back to troll comments because

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Speaker 4: sometimes it's so especially on TikTok, like the comments are

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Speaker 4: so ridiculous that like I just can't be bothered sometimes

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Speaker 4: can't give it oxygen exactly exactly. But with this, I

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Speaker 4: thought it was important, especially the ones around people saying, well,

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Speaker 4: you said you didn't want to have kids. First of all,

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Speaker 4: I never said that. I said that I didn't know when.

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Speaker 4: I felt a lot of shame around not knowing, because,

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Speaker 4: as you said before, as women, it's kind of inferred

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Speaker 4: that we will have children, and so if we don't

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Speaker 4: film maternal automatically, you feel like something's wrong with you.

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Speaker 4: And so that was important for me to explore. I

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Speaker 4: did come to the end and decide we did want

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Speaker 4: to have kids. However, if I decided we didn't want

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Speaker 4: to have kids and then I changed my mind for

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Speaker 4: my life, that would also be completely fine.

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Speaker 1: We're allowed to change your mind exactly.

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Speaker 3: We're all allowed to change our minds. Like imagine, if

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Speaker 3: we're held to whatever.

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Speaker 1: I believe, we change our minds exactly.

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Speaker 4: Like imagine if everything to say when we're twelve years old,

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Speaker 4: we thought we had to do that for the rest

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Speaker 4: of our lives.

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Speaker 3: This is a.

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Speaker 4: Ridiculous way of thinking, but I think sometimes that's what

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Speaker 4: we expect of people online. So that was quite an

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Speaker 4: interesting take, I would say, but it was important I

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Speaker 4: went back to it because I just think it's important

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Speaker 4: that we have that conversation and we are okay with

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Speaker 4: people changing their mind.

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Speaker 2: Okay, So I want to talk about this mini series

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Speaker 2: that you've just brought out and you've been beavering away

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Speaker 2: on for many weeks during the first trimester of your pregnancy,

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Speaker 2: which is heroic, to be honest, to put that much

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Speaker 2: effort into something when you're dealing with the nausea and

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Speaker 2: everything that comes with the first trimester of pregnancy. Benevolent sexism,

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Speaker 2: it's something. I mean, I've heard of the manisphere. I

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Speaker 2: know what it means to be red pilled. I've heard

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Speaker 2: about all of this. I'm chronically online, so I'm across

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Speaker 2: a lot of that, But the benevolent sexism angle is

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Speaker 2: something I wasn't so aware of. Can you explain to

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Speaker 2: me how this came on your radar?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, totally, and it is It's something that, to be

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Speaker 4: completely honest site also, even the manisphere. I think with

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Speaker 4: social media, what we find is that our algorithm is

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Speaker 4: what we usually watch, right or the content we engage

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Speaker 4: with the opinion that we have, that's the content we see.

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Speaker 4: So I hadn't seen a lot of this content, but

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Speaker 4: I was sent it was actually by Steph. She sent

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Speaker 4: me this video of a podcast clip, and it was

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Speaker 4: the true definition of benevolent sexism. So what it was

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Speaker 4: was a very young boy speaking to another and I'm

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Speaker 4: going to use actually he's twenty two years old. In

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Speaker 4: his podcast he calls women girls, so man or boy,

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Speaker 4: whatever we want to call him. He was engaging with

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Speaker 4: another or was interviewing another young influencer.

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Speaker 3: And the clip started.

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Speaker 4: It had this beautiful lighting, it was in professional podcast studio.

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Speaker 4: It had really motivational like violin piano type music as

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Speaker 4: a backing, So it felt like when you first started watching,

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Speaker 4: you're like, oh, I feel like I'm going to be inspired,

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Speaker 4: Like that's exactly right. And then all of a sudden,

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Speaker 4: and he starts by saying I don't want my wife

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Speaker 4: to have to work or my partner to have to work,

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Speaker 4: or something along those lines, and so what face Thoughue

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Speaker 4: You're like, okay, well that's fine, right, But then he

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Speaker 4: went on to say why and he didn't want his

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Speaker 4: partner to work because he needed to go and chase

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Speaker 4: his dreams. Therefore, he needed to make sure when he

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Speaker 4: came home there was a peaceful and innocent or whatever

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Speaker 4: word he languaged he used, calm environment, don't ruin my

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Speaker 4: vibe exactly right. That was created by his partner, and

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Speaker 4: she wasn't a ladder complain to him, which is so ironic.

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Speaker 3: This person is twenty two or twenty three years old.

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Speaker 4: I think everyone knows being a stay at home parent

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Speaker 4: is the hardest job in the entire world. I think

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Speaker 4: if the expectation was there that you were staying home

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Speaker 4: with kids all day and your partner came home, as

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Speaker 4: if you're going to be like, oh, I have the

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Speaker 4: best you know, maybe you did have a wonderful day,

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Speaker 4: but it's also really really hard. So not being able

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Speaker 4: to open up about that is I would say, not

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Speaker 4: a very strong relationship or fair or equal. And so

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Speaker 4: he went on to say that, and I think the

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Speaker 4: thing that I found.

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Speaker 3: Really difficult about it all.

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Speaker 4: And then when he said I want my partners, I

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Speaker 4: want her eyes to light up when I get home,

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Speaker 4: And then he spoke about how her eyes could light up,

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Speaker 4: so how what passions women should have in their day,

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Speaker 4: and he spoke about hot girl walks, which is just

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Speaker 4: so condescending and patronizing.

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Speaker 3: Also like what like, I just can't.

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Speaker 4: Then he also spoke about so this was within the podcast,

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Speaker 4: it was cut out of that video clip, but I

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Speaker 4: listened to the full an hour and forty five minute podcasts.

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Speaker 3: He also said platting Barbie Doll's hair, no, no, yeah,

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Speaker 3: I don't.

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Speaker 4: Yes, it's crazy, absolutely crazy, and collecting postcuts, oh no.

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Speaker 4: And so within this one hour and forty five minute episode,

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Speaker 4: the main theme was speaking about how men have to

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Speaker 4: go out and like be the breadwinner and get their dreams.

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Speaker 3: Whatever.

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Speaker 4: Fine, if you want to pursue your dreams like I've

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Speaker 4: done that, that's amazing. But it was then, so that

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Speaker 4: was what they were talking about. And then when they

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Speaker 4: spoke about women and the role of their partner, it

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Speaker 4: was basically just to make sure they could pursue their

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Speaker 4: dreams and be there for them at home.

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Speaker 3: But there was nothing about women chasing.

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Speaker 4: Our dreams, right, And it was so belittling and it

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Speaker 4: really took away like when you speak about benevolent benevolent sexism,

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Speaker 4: what it is is it is disguised as caring and loving,

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Speaker 4: I want to take care of you, right, but it's

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Speaker 4: actually taking agency away from women within a relationship and

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Speaker 4: also belittling the view of them.

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Speaker 2: Well, it sounds like regressing into these traditional gender roles

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Speaker 2: in a way right and bringing that back, did you

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Speaker 2: say he's only twenty two.

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Speaker 4: He's twenty two years old, not in a relationship, hasn't

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Speaker 4: been in one for a while. And the other person

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Speaker 4: he was interviewing, even though they spoke, they spoke for

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Speaker 4: around forty minutes in this episode about how a relationship

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Speaker 4: should be and they both said, we're not in relationships.

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Speaker 2: So I just wonder how a twenty two year old

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Speaker 2: man is finding the on raps into this kind of

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Speaker 2: thinking at such a young age. And I think back

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Speaker 2: to myself as a twenty two year old woman and

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Speaker 2: would I have the life experience to be able to

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Speaker 2: identify that behavior for what.

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Speaker 1: It is as well?

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Speaker 2: So what have you learn in this process of pulling

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Speaker 2: this miniseriies together?

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Speaker 1: Am I equal? What have you learned about the on ramps?

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Speaker 3: It's very confronting.

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Speaker 4: We know that now this type of content they call

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Speaker 4: it the manisphere and masculinity influences.

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Speaker 3: We know that November did a.

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Speaker 4: Report that professor Zach Salder, who was on the podcast

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Speaker 4: He's Amazing at November, he co authored and they found

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Speaker 4: that two thirds of the young men that they surveyed

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Speaker 4: which were in UK, US and Australia.

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Speaker 3: There was three thousand of them.

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Speaker 4: Two thirds of them were engaging with this content. So

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Speaker 4: this content is now mainstream. It's not because I think

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Speaker 4: when we think of Andrew Tate like extreme misogyny, people

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Speaker 4: know that, well not everyone, but a lot of people

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Speaker 4: know that he's in the wrong. But it's this other

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Speaker 4: kind of gray area of this huge like these huge

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Speaker 4: like so many of them, these masculinity influencers that are

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Speaker 4: pushing this message maybe without that Andrew Tate package, but

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Speaker 4: it's dressed up as it starts with fitness, it starts

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Speaker 4: with promoting you know, you want to live your best life,

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Speaker 4: be your best self like self improvement content, and so

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Speaker 4: young men talk exactly and also making money like this

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Speaker 4: is how I made my first five million, et cetera,

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Speaker 4: et cetera. And so young men go in seeking self improvement,

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Speaker 4: and this is something that Zach Salda said on the podcast.

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Speaker 4: They don't go in seeking misogyny, but they leave with it.

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Speaker 2: So what really struck me about that episode with Zach

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Speaker 2: on your podcast is he talks about what is it

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Speaker 2: a sixteen year old boy can set up an account

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Speaker 2: on Instagram and within what time frame thirty seconds. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: he's being fed that content via the algorithm just because

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Speaker 2: the social media network knows that he's a sixteen year

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Speaker 2: old boy and therefore we will send him this. That

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Speaker 2: really struck me as a big part of the problem.

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Speaker 3: Oh, it's terrifying. It's absolutely terrifying.

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Speaker 4: There's also no moderation on this content, so we know

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Speaker 4: with one of the biggest problems with social media is

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Speaker 4: a lack of moderation around There's moderation around racism, some

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Speaker 4: swear words, there's some things, there is violence, but in

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Speaker 4: these areas where it's there's so it is so problematic

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Speaker 4: and the damage from a societal level is huge and

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Speaker 4: the implications are high. There isn't moderation, So that's really

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Speaker 4: really scary. The other thing as well, is it's really

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Speaker 4: important to acknowledge because in this conversation people have said

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Speaker 4: to me, like, why do you hate men and all

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Speaker 4: of this stuff, and it's not about that, And I

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Speaker 4: think when we're having these conversations it's not Yes, it's

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Speaker 4: absolutely for women.

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Speaker 3: But it's actually for society.

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Speaker 4: Because what we know is that with this content, and

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Speaker 4: this is another finding out of them Revember report was

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Speaker 4: that men that engage in this content are more likely

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Speaker 4: to have poor mental health outcomes, and they're also less

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Speaker 4: likely to then seek out help for this because this

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Speaker 4: content is telling them you need to be a strong man.

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Speaker 3: Like in a lot of the content.

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Speaker 4: Of this this crisp person that did the first clip,

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Speaker 4: he speaks about a weak man and a strong man,

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Speaker 4: and the pressure on young men to provide for an

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Speaker 4: entire household, because this is as you said before, it's

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Speaker 4: just push towards traditional.

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Speaker 3: Gender roles and norms.

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Speaker 4: We know now that Gen Z men believe more in

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Speaker 4: traditional gender norms than the older generation. That's an insane statistic,

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Speaker 4: but that's the truth and that's reality that we're living in.

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Speaker 4: And there's obviously so many things in there. The pressure

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Speaker 4: for a man to never complain, just keep going, like

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Speaker 4: get up no matter what, that kind of messaging of

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Speaker 4: self improvement, discipline, etc. But also to hold the full

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Speaker 4: financial burden, like within a cost of living crisis in Australia,

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Speaker 4: we know that I think the status around seventy percent

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Speaker 4: of households now have two working parents because they don't

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Speaker 4: have a choice, right the cost of living you need

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Speaker 4: to when comes to survive rent in Australia, or own

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Speaker 4: a house, whatever it might be.

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Speaker 3: It's very necessary.

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Speaker 4: And so this push to say that you're not a

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Speaker 4: strong man, you're weak if you can't provide.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So there's a vulnerability I think among young men

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Speaker 2: at the heart of this, and I raise that as

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Speaker 2: the mother of to boys, and I have concerns about,

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Speaker 2: you know, how are we nurturing young men, How are

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Speaker 2: we nurturing boys to seek out a healthy kind of masculinity.

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Speaker 2: What are you learning about that and how we can

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Speaker 2: support that in this day and age.

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Speaker 4: Oh, it's I mean, first of all, it's really hard

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Speaker 4: because a lot of this content is massed. So I

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Speaker 4: think that's really important to acknowledge. And they're not seeking it.

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Speaker 4: I think that's also important to acknowledge it. And I

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Speaker 4: think it's always not many people, like young people would

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Speaker 4: go on their phone and think I'm going to become

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Speaker 4: a misogynist and hate women. That's not what their intention is, right,

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Speaker 4: But what is really important and it was something that

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Speaker 4: Gina Martin, who's an incredible activist in the area of equality,

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Speaker 4: said in the mini series that it's not about like

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Speaker 4: trying to change who you are. It's going back to

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Speaker 4: who you were before the patriarchy told you who you

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Speaker 4: need to be. And what Gina spoke about in her experience,

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Speaker 4: she works in schools every day and she speaks to

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Speaker 4: young men and women and about what's all young boys

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Speaker 4: and girls about what do you think it means to

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Speaker 4: be a.

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Speaker 3: Man or a woman?

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Speaker 4: And the men, the young boys are saying like, oh,

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Speaker 4: I have to get girls, and it's all of this

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Speaker 4: messaging around I have to be strong, and I have

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Speaker 4: to provide and all of these things, and it's very

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Speaker 4: gendered language and very much puts us in a box

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Speaker 4: of who we need to be, Like women have to

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Speaker 4: be and they're feminine and be innocent and all of

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Speaker 4: these things, and then men have to be masculine. But

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Speaker 4: I think what's really really important to remember in all

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Speaker 4: this content is that if you are prescribing a way

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Speaker 4: someone needs to be within themselves, that is not freedom.

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Speaker 3: It's also not.

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Speaker 4: Us being able to have self expression and be who

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Speaker 4: we are and be uniquely who we are. So I

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Speaker 4: think it is hard because with things like TikTok, that

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Speaker 4: stat that you said before, it's so scary, it's so

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Speaker 4: hard not to be sucked into it. But I think

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Speaker 4: it's looking at okay, if you do want to go

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Speaker 4: on and look at fitness content, whatever it might be,

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Speaker 4: it's looking at the other pillars of the content that

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Speaker 4: these creators are pushing out, Gina said, And this was

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Speaker 4: just such a moment for me where I was like, oh,

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Speaker 4: that makes so much sense. A lot of these masculinity

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Speaker 4: influences speak in hypotheticals, and so for example, if we

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Speaker 4: go back to the first kind of clip around Chris Griffin,

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Speaker 4: he's not in a relationship, he hasn't had children, he

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Speaker 4: hasn't had to you know, he hasn't had.

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Speaker 3: That lift experience.

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Speaker 4: Yet he is promoting this ideal and this way of

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Speaker 4: life in this hypothetical way. It's harder to challenge hypotheticals.

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Speaker 4: That's really really important to acknowledge. But that's often how

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Speaker 4: all of this content it's they're not really living at

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Speaker 4: per se, it's just how they think the world should be.

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Speaker 3: So that's really really important to acknowledge. And as one

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Speaker 3: of the red flags.

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Speaker 4: The other things are it's often very narcissistic. All of

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Speaker 4: their content is about them, and that's something to look for.

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Speaker 4: And then it's looking at okay, yes, if someone is

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Speaker 4: just posing fitness content, but the language around that is

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Speaker 4: like you have to get up every day and you

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Speaker 4: have to commit and you can't like otherwise you're letting

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Speaker 4: yourself down and you are weak like that type of

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Speaker 4: language and then prescription around what So in that video

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Speaker 4: we spoke about the language, how they speak about women,

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Speaker 4: how do they treat women. It's not just in social media, right,

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Speaker 4: it's also in dating because there's something that I really

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Speaker 4: wanted to speak about and address in the miniseries is

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Speaker 4: for young women when they're looking for or what doesn't

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Speaker 4: matter their age, when they're looking for a partner and

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Speaker 4: they're dating, what are the red flags around that? And

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Speaker 4: one of the things that Jana brought up that I

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Speaker 4: thought was so good is how do they.

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Speaker 3: Treat women who can't do anything for them?

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Speaker 4: So, yes, they might they all say like, oh, I've

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Speaker 4: got a sister, like I love women or whatever it

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Speaker 4: might be, but how do you treat the person that

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Speaker 4: can't do anything for you? Like, what's their view of women?

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Speaker 4: How do they speak about them? What's their language? Are

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Speaker 4: they prescriptive in how they need a woman to be

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Speaker 4: in which case there is no freedom and that's controlling, right,

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Speaker 4: But it is. It's a really really hard space to navigate,

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Speaker 4: and I think I really hope that as soon, like

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Speaker 4: we know that within kind of the diet culture industry,

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Speaker 4: TikTok now like skinny talk, for example, is banned, that's

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Speaker 4: just been banned. It's hard because the people make another hashtag.

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Speaker 4: But I really hope there's some type of moderation within

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Speaker 4: this content.

440
00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:06,000
Speaker 3: Because it's scary.

441
00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:07,480
Speaker 4: It was scary when it was kind of just on

442
00:20:07,560 --> 00:20:10,080
Speaker 4: Reddit and in its own little area of the Internet,

443
00:20:10,160 --> 00:20:11,200
Speaker 4: but now it's mainstream.

444
00:20:11,280 --> 00:20:12,200
Speaker 3: It's really dangerous.

445
00:20:12,600 --> 00:20:14,960
Speaker 1: So a lot of people could just walk past this

446
00:20:15,080 --> 00:20:16,320
Speaker 1: because there's so much.

447
00:20:16,119 --> 00:20:19,600
Speaker 2: Of it, and you know, surely someone will deal with it.

448
00:20:21,160 --> 00:20:23,240
Speaker 2: And you've got to have a pretty thick skin to

449
00:20:23,359 --> 00:20:26,679
Speaker 2: take on an issue like this. So what motivated you

450
00:20:26,800 --> 00:20:28,159
Speaker 2: to tackle this issue?

451
00:20:28,440 --> 00:20:32,040
Speaker 3: I think for me it was like I couldn't not

452
00:20:32,359 --> 00:20:32,960
Speaker 3: I all days.

453
00:20:33,119 --> 00:20:34,880
Speaker 4: I saw the video and I was so angry about

454
00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:36,719
Speaker 4: it and I felt I think you go through these

455
00:20:36,760 --> 00:20:40,440
Speaker 4: emotions when you see this content because you feel defeated,

456
00:20:40,520 --> 00:20:44,160
Speaker 4: like we've come so far and as women and we're

457
00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:46,200
Speaker 4: not we're definitely not an equal society, but we are

458
00:20:46,359 --> 00:20:48,800
Speaker 4: closer than we have been, right and when you see

459
00:20:48,840 --> 00:20:50,679
Speaker 4: stuff like this, it's like a slap in the face,

460
00:20:50,760 --> 00:20:55,479
Speaker 4: like pushing backwards, like it's so oppressive, so aggressive, and

461
00:20:55,560 --> 00:20:58,720
Speaker 4: so I felt really defeated, and then I thought, no,

462
00:20:58,800 --> 00:21:00,840
Speaker 4: I'm actually going to speak about it. I've actually never

463
00:21:02,119 --> 00:21:05,920
Speaker 4: tagged someone specifically or my stories before. I'm very because

464
00:21:05,920 --> 00:21:07,400
Speaker 4: there's a few reasons why I don't want to give

465
00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:09,600
Speaker 4: them more reach if their content is dangerous. But then

466
00:21:09,640 --> 00:21:12,200
Speaker 4: also I don't want to cancel. I don't really believe

467
00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:14,560
Speaker 4: in cancel culture. And because what you want is to

468
00:21:14,600 --> 00:21:16,480
Speaker 4: invite them and call them in and have a moment

469
00:21:16,520 --> 00:21:19,600
Speaker 4: of learning where especially for this person or anyone to

470
00:21:19,680 --> 00:21:22,880
Speaker 4: masculinity influencer, their audience are listening to them.

471
00:21:22,960 --> 00:21:25,359
Speaker 3: So that's the conversation that we need to change.

472
00:21:25,400 --> 00:21:30,320
Speaker 4: And so for me growing up in my home, my

473
00:21:30,440 --> 00:21:32,800
Speaker 4: parents separated when I was around twelve years old, and

474
00:21:33,320 --> 00:21:37,800
Speaker 4: my mum didn't have much super at all. She'd taken

475
00:21:37,960 --> 00:21:41,480
Speaker 4: time off to look after myself and my two sisters,

476
00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:44,800
Speaker 4: and my dad had worked, and so when they separated,

477
00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:48,320
Speaker 4: my mum was not in a very good financial position.

478
00:21:48,440 --> 00:21:49,240
Speaker 3: She didn't have super.

479
00:21:49,280 --> 00:21:51,199
Speaker 4: That's still now she has gone back to work and

480
00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:53,680
Speaker 4: built up some super but we know how important.

481
00:21:53,320 --> 00:21:56,080
Speaker 3: It is to build up every year, right because.

482
00:21:55,880 --> 00:21:57,840
Speaker 4: It continues to compound, and so if you have a

483
00:21:57,920 --> 00:22:00,240
Speaker 4: huge time out of that, you don't have that. So

484
00:22:00,280 --> 00:22:01,920
Speaker 4: she had a huge time out of the workforce where

485
00:22:01,960 --> 00:22:04,160
Speaker 4: she wasn't building her skills. So when she went back in.

486
00:22:04,320 --> 00:22:06,880
Speaker 3: So much harder exactly right, exactly right.

487
00:22:07,240 --> 00:22:10,480
Speaker 4: And so that for me seeing that just made me

488
00:22:10,680 --> 00:22:13,600
Speaker 4: I feel like I've seen it in some ways firsthand.

489
00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:16,240
Speaker 4: What can happen And there was definitely not intentional inequality

490
00:22:16,280 --> 00:22:19,359
Speaker 4: in my parents' marriage, But when that happens and you

491
00:22:19,359 --> 00:22:23,040
Speaker 4: haven't had the conversations around what's going to happen with superannuation,

492
00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:25,320
Speaker 4: Like if someone's staying home and they are being the

493
00:22:25,320 --> 00:22:28,320
Speaker 4: state home parent, we know it's the most kind of

494
00:22:28,440 --> 00:22:30,800
Speaker 4: undervalue job in the world. You don't get paid for it,

495
00:22:30,840 --> 00:22:34,040
Speaker 4: you don't get super. But if they're doing that so

496
00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:37,399
Speaker 4: you can go to work, you need to have that conversation.

497
00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:39,399
Speaker 1: Because that person is facilitating.

498
00:22:38,840 --> 00:22:40,280
Speaker 3: Exactly exactly right.

499
00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:43,199
Speaker 4: It's facilitating the career also for that person then to

500
00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:46,040
Speaker 4: have a high earning capacity, and we know that it's

501
00:22:46,080 --> 00:22:49,159
Speaker 4: now the biggest growing homeless group in Australia is thirty

502
00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:51,240
Speaker 4: five between thirty five, I think, and around forty five

503
00:22:51,320 --> 00:22:54,320
Speaker 4: year old women. It's really scary. We know women retire

504
00:22:54,359 --> 00:22:56,600
Speaker 4: with much less super than men. We also live about

505
00:22:56,600 --> 00:23:00,800
Speaker 4: ten years longer than men. And so what was very

506
00:23:00,840 --> 00:23:03,280
Speaker 4: important to me is and I've spoken to so many

507
00:23:03,320 --> 00:23:05,800
Speaker 4: people over the years that maybe because of my own story,

508
00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:08,520
Speaker 4: have connected with me and shared that, you know, their

509
00:23:08,560 --> 00:23:10,280
Speaker 4: partner said they were going to take care of them,

510
00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:12,560
Speaker 4: and then now they're a single parent, they're on centling,

511
00:23:12,680 --> 00:23:15,600
Speaker 4: they've got three kids, they have nothing, and they've had

512
00:23:15,640 --> 00:23:18,560
Speaker 4: to rebuild and they wish someone had had the conversation

513
00:23:18,640 --> 00:23:19,000
Speaker 4: with them.

514
00:23:19,160 --> 00:23:21,040
Speaker 3: And so for me, I wanted to have it.

515
00:23:21,520 --> 00:23:24,600
Speaker 4: And because especially when we're talking about these traditional gender

516
00:23:24,680 --> 00:23:28,840
Speaker 4: roles in this idolistic, shiny way, there's so much more

517
00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:30,840
Speaker 4: that goes into it that we need to talk about.

518
00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:33,160
Speaker 4: You can't just talk about it at a surface level.

519
00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:35,280
Speaker 4: So that was why it was important to talk about it.

520
00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:40,720
Speaker 2: How do you think that experience informed your process with

521
00:23:40,840 --> 00:23:43,080
Speaker 2: having a child yourself? Do you think that may have

522
00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:47,240
Speaker 2: impacted on your you know, prior indecision around whether you

523
00:23:47,240 --> 00:23:49,080
Speaker 2: wanted to have a children have children.

524
00:23:49,160 --> 00:23:50,520
Speaker 3: Oh, such a good question.

525
00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:53,560
Speaker 4: I mean, I don't think I specifically spoke about it

526
00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:57,440
Speaker 4: at the time, but I think absolutely because I think

527
00:23:57,520 --> 00:24:00,399
Speaker 4: something that I had one of my biggest fears. Another

528
00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:06,240
Speaker 4: one was around my career and what would happen to

529
00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:09,640
Speaker 4: my drive and my motivation, because there's almost this assumption

530
00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:11,600
Speaker 4: that you know you'll take a step back, and we

531
00:24:11,720 --> 00:24:14,320
Speaker 4: know that, and Jamilla Rizivey has done such amazing work

532
00:24:14,320 --> 00:24:18,480
Speaker 4: in this space. We know that women start thinking about

533
00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:22,679
Speaker 4: having kids earlier and it impacts what.

534
00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:23,400
Speaker 3: They do in their career.

535
00:24:23,480 --> 00:24:26,480
Speaker 4: So just say they're twenty five, they might be up

536
00:24:26,520 --> 00:24:29,840
Speaker 4: for a promotion or whatever it might be. And sometimes

537
00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:32,800
Speaker 4: it's conscious, sometimes it's subconscious thinking about, well, actually, I'm

538
00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:34,960
Speaker 4: going to step out and have kids soon, so I'm

539
00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:36,680
Speaker 4: not going to go for that promotion because I don't

540
00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:38,960
Speaker 4: want to let my workplace down or that's going to

541
00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:40,879
Speaker 4: be too much to me. I have to take that

542
00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:44,199
Speaker 4: responsibility on. We know that men don't think about that,

543
00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:46,480
Speaker 4: and that's great. I also think women shouldn't think about

544
00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:48,840
Speaker 4: Obviously it's something we should consider together as a couple,

545
00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:50,760
Speaker 4: but it shouldn't be a reason that we step back.

546
00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:53,960
Speaker 4: So it starts earlier. Then it's not just when we

547
00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:57,160
Speaker 4: step out of our career, to have a career break

548
00:24:57,200 --> 00:24:59,240
Speaker 4: to have kids. If we want to do that, Obviously,

549
00:24:59,359 --> 00:25:02,600
Speaker 4: people in a different position, it starts earlier than that,

550
00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:05,080
Speaker 4: and I think that's what's really really scary, and so

551
00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:07,200
Speaker 4: for me, I think I just had this fear of

552
00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:11,560
Speaker 4: what how will I manage it? Like my drive, my career,

553
00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:14,359
Speaker 4: it's so important to me, so important in my work,

554
00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:17,159
Speaker 4: and also advocating for women staying in the workplace if

555
00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:19,840
Speaker 4: they can. We obviously know that for a lot of women,

556
00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:22,119
Speaker 4: and it's something that we address in the mini series

557
00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:25,600
Speaker 4: is childcare is the same amount as what they earn

558
00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:26,000
Speaker 4: in a day.

559
00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:30,520
Speaker 2: That's right, So it cancels out exactly what's the point exactly?

560
00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:32,919
Speaker 4: But I think it's having the conversation of a career

561
00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:35,440
Speaker 4: is not just about the money, right, It's about building

562
00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:37,919
Speaker 4: the skills that no one can take away feed from you,

563
00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:39,600
Speaker 4: that you can utilize when you need them.

564
00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:42,520
Speaker 2: And I think that's a really important point. There's obviously

565
00:25:42,560 --> 00:25:45,840
Speaker 2: a lot of discussion around the tradwife trend online at

566
00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:48,280
Speaker 2: the moment, and I think there's an important distinction to

567
00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:54,840
Speaker 2: make between the trad wife idea, which is based on

568
00:25:55,440 --> 00:26:01,720
Speaker 2: submission and a loss of agency and choice and independence

569
00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:07,560
Speaker 2: and submitting to that versus stay at home mums who

570
00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:09,639
Speaker 2: as a family have made a decision that this is

571
00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:12,600
Speaker 2: the best thing for the family, for the children maybe.

572
00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:14,679
Speaker 2: And by the way, that applies to stay at home

573
00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:19,080
Speaker 2: dads too. Sometimes there's one parent who works such difficult

574
00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:23,480
Speaker 2: and challenging and changeable hours and needs to travel or whatever,

575
00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:26,400
Speaker 2: that you need one parent who can be more consistent

576
00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:29,080
Speaker 2: and stable for the sake of children, whatever it is.

577
00:26:29,119 --> 00:26:31,760
Speaker 2: And that is a choice that can be made as

578
00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:34,000
Speaker 2: a family, and I've seen many great examples.

579
00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:34,560
Speaker 1: Of that where it works.

580
00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:38,600
Speaker 2: But the traad wife trend this is an interesting one

581
00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:40,360
Speaker 2: to me because I didn't really know what to make

582
00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:43,160
Speaker 2: of it at first. It doesn't it didn't sit right

583
00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:48,240
Speaker 2: with me, but it also it just I think it's

584
00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:49,520
Speaker 2: there's a bit of bullshit to.

585
00:26:49,480 --> 00:26:50,480
Speaker 1: It as well.

586
00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:53,920
Speaker 2: Most of the people I see selling it online a

587
00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:57,320
Speaker 2: content creator is making probably making money off it right time.

588
00:26:57,359 --> 00:26:59,520
Speaker 4: I right, one hundred percent, that's exactly right, and I

589
00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:02,080
Speaker 4: think I think it's so true around the Staatee home

590
00:27:02,119 --> 00:27:04,680
Speaker 4: parent conversation. As you said, every family needs to make

591
00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:07,280
Speaker 4: the best decision for them. There shouldn't be assumption. One

592
00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:09,560
Speaker 4: assumption that one gender should do it over the other,

593
00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:11,879
Speaker 4: and we also need to make sure there's space for

594
00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:13,880
Speaker 4: it at one time. If one of those the parent

595
00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:15,600
Speaker 4: that's staying home wants to go back to work, that

596
00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:17,879
Speaker 4: they feel like they can and they can go and

597
00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:19,760
Speaker 4: build a career and they don't just have to, you know,

598
00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:21,760
Speaker 4: get a job on a Thursday afternoon for two hours,

599
00:27:21,840 --> 00:27:24,560
Speaker 4: because they have to do what's going to work specifically

600
00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:28,800
Speaker 4: for their family structure. When it comes to tradwives, I

601
00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:30,600
Speaker 4: think that I mean number one, as you said, their

602
00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:31,320
Speaker 4: content creators.

603
00:27:31,359 --> 00:27:33,080
Speaker 3: So it's very likely I mean a lot of them.

604
00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:35,840
Speaker 4: There's there's some that are huge, like Ballerina Farm being

605
00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:39,840
Speaker 4: one of them, that is a humongous business. That woman

606
00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:42,600
Speaker 4: actually don't know her name, she is a businesswoman. She's

607
00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:44,439
Speaker 4: making a lot of money. I would say, she has

608
00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:45,360
Speaker 4: a full time job.

609
00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:47,320
Speaker 1: And she's kind of at the core.

610
00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:50,000
Speaker 4: Of exactly right, she's exactly exactly.

611
00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:51,120
Speaker 3: And then there's others.

612
00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:52,480
Speaker 4: There's a lot of them, but a lot of them

613
00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:55,000
Speaker 4: are doing paid partnerships and filming themselves all day.

614
00:27:55,119 --> 00:27:56,480
Speaker 3: If you're filming yourself.

615
00:27:56,119 --> 00:27:59,479
Speaker 4: And editing and being strategic about your personal brand growth,

616
00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:01,560
Speaker 4: that's a job that's a job, right, So I think

617
00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:03,639
Speaker 4: that's really important to acknowledge because they're kind of selling

618
00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:06,560
Speaker 4: this I'm not working, but actually been the fact you're

619
00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:10,240
Speaker 4: creating content you are. The other thing is how And

620
00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:13,240
Speaker 4: I mean, I don't have children yet, so I don't

621
00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:15,960
Speaker 4: I can't speak to this. I'm sure you can and

622
00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:18,240
Speaker 4: would find it really frustrating as somebody who doesn't have kids,

623
00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:21,840
Speaker 4: I do. They dress in these beautiful outfits, they never

624
00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:23,520
Speaker 4: have mess on them, they've never mess in their house.

625
00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:26,560
Speaker 4: They're cooking food from scratch for their husband, like it's

626
00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:30,080
Speaker 4: so glamorized, right, they don't complain about how hard it is.

627
00:28:30,119 --> 00:28:32,200
Speaker 4: We know that raising children is one of the hardest jobs,

628
00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:35,159
Speaker 4: most rewarding but hardest jobs in the entire world. You

629
00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:37,480
Speaker 4: don't see any of that. You just see the shiny,

630
00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:39,760
Speaker 4: amazing side of them taking.

631
00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:43,760
Speaker 3: Care of a homemaking exactly. That looks like so lovely.

632
00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:46,480
Speaker 4: But then when you actually step back and you're like,

633
00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:50,120
Speaker 4: this is not the reality in any way whatsoever. So

634
00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:53,760
Speaker 4: they're kind of selling Yeah, this ideal that is not

635
00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:56,160
Speaker 4: at all what it seems like on the internet.

636
00:28:56,280 --> 00:28:56,880
Speaker 3: Like most things.

637
00:28:57,000 --> 00:28:58,440
Speaker 2: Okay, we're going to take a break from that for

638
00:28:58,480 --> 00:29:00,560
Speaker 2: a moment, Laura, sit tight and we back. We're going

639
00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:02,680
Speaker 2: to talk all things kick and some of your biggest

640
00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:05,480
Speaker 2: business lessons along the way. Okay, let's go to Kick.

641
00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:09,840
Speaker 2: What was the original concept for you and Steph back

642
00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:11,160
Speaker 2: in the day. I feel like there's been such an

643
00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:13,920
Speaker 2: evolution of the brand over the year. What was the

644
00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:15,560
Speaker 2: original elevator?

645
00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:15,880
Speaker 1: Pitch?

646
00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:17,959
Speaker 4: Oh, I mean to be honest, we didn't have an

647
00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:21,680
Speaker 4: original elevator we started. We're actually in our tenth year now,

648
00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:24,560
Speaker 4: which is crazy. The brand has evolved so much. We

649
00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:27,360
Speaker 4: started in twenty fifteen with an e book and now

650
00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:28,560
Speaker 4: we have an app with.

651
00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:30,600
Speaker 3: Remember, yeah ebooks exactly.

652
00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:32,680
Speaker 4: Back then that was the cool thing, right, everyone was

653
00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:34,080
Speaker 4: buying ebooks, and so we started.

654
00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:35,760
Speaker 1: Then they download them and just give them.

655
00:29:35,840 --> 00:29:40,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it's very true. It's very true.

656
00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:42,760
Speaker 4: And so now we're Yeah, we're a subscription out. We

657
00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:45,840
Speaker 4: have over a thousand workouts and recipes and meditations on there. Wow,

658
00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:49,239
Speaker 4: and it's yeah, it's crazy to look at look at

659
00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:49,880
Speaker 4: the journey, but.

660
00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:51,440
Speaker 3: It started back.

661
00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:53,640
Speaker 4: So twenty fifteen is when we launched, but our journey

662
00:29:53,680 --> 00:29:56,000
Speaker 4: started much before then. Steph and I both went through

663
00:29:56,000 --> 00:30:00,440
Speaker 4: our experience with a personal experience with body dysmorphia and

664
00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:03,920
Speaker 4: disordered eating. Seph went down the route of or the

665
00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:05,720
Speaker 4: way that her disordered eating kind of came up for

666
00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:06,960
Speaker 4: her was in binge.

667
00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:07,800
Speaker 3: With binge eating.

668
00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:11,560
Speaker 4: For me, as I'm very type A, I can be

669
00:30:11,680 --> 00:30:14,920
Speaker 4: very disciplined, and so I applied that to exercise and food,

670
00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:19,080
Speaker 4: which meant that I became super obsessive and restrictive around both.

671
00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:21,720
Speaker 4: We both got to a point where we were unhealthiest

672
00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:24,480
Speaker 4: we had ever been. We thought that, and for myself,

673
00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:26,760
Speaker 4: like I thought that my weight, and it's something that

674
00:30:27,040 --> 00:30:30,080
Speaker 4: you know, we're literally told, since we are so little,

675
00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:31,760
Speaker 4: that the way that we look as women and the

676
00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:34,479
Speaker 4: size of our body matters, and that that is a

677
00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:37,640
Speaker 4: very valuable thing to society, Like just as we speak

678
00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:40,640
Speaker 4: about having exactly like being able to bear children as

679
00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:42,160
Speaker 4: a part of our work, the size of our bodies

680
00:30:42,160 --> 00:30:47,160
Speaker 4: also what that's what sold to us. And so in

681
00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:49,800
Speaker 4: that time I completely lost myself. Like I was doing

682
00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:51,840
Speaker 4: my law and business degree at the time, I couldn't

683
00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:54,040
Speaker 4: even study because I had no brain power because all

684
00:30:54,080 --> 00:30:55,640
Speaker 4: I was thinking about was trying.

685
00:30:55,440 --> 00:30:57,240
Speaker 3: To restrict food.

686
00:30:57,760 --> 00:31:00,200
Speaker 4: I remember I had a goal weight, and I thought

687
00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:02,280
Speaker 4: when I got there, because that's the thing the diet

688
00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:04,239
Speaker 4: industry sells us. When you get to this body, your

689
00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:07,239
Speaker 4: dream body, you will be happy. And I got to

690
00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:08,920
Speaker 4: my goal away and I looked in the mirror and

691
00:31:09,080 --> 00:31:10,680
Speaker 4: I was the smallest I've ever been in my life.

692
00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:12,200
Speaker 3: And all I did was pick myself apart.

693
00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:14,640
Speaker 4: You can never get to a point if you are

694
00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:17,840
Speaker 4: in for me, in that headspace where you feel happy

695
00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:19,760
Speaker 4: and worthy, because we're not going to feel worthy by

696
00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:22,920
Speaker 4: the size of our body, right And so Steph went

697
00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:25,200
Speaker 4: through a similar journey and we were able to come

698
00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:27,880
Speaker 4: out of that and rebuild our relationship with food and exercise.

699
00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:33,320
Speaker 3: But when we looked at the health and diet industry.

700
00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:35,880
Speaker 4: Or health and wellness whatever we want to call it,

701
00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:38,640
Speaker 4: a lot of the because fitness apps can be amazing.

702
00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:40,480
Speaker 4: They are a tool that people that might not have

703
00:31:40,480 --> 00:31:41,960
Speaker 4: access to a gene well did you have access to

704
00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:43,280
Speaker 4: a gym, but they don't know what to do there.

705
00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:46,280
Speaker 3: It empowers them with tools to be able to learn.

706
00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:48,760
Speaker 4: What exercise they like, how to exercise, what to do

707
00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:51,440
Speaker 4: because it's very confronting, especially if for women were told

708
00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:53,680
Speaker 4: we should say in the cardio area, for example.

709
00:31:54,360 --> 00:31:57,000
Speaker 3: And I was very lucky to grow up in an

710
00:31:57,080 --> 00:31:59,800
Speaker 3: environment where I love school sports. Sport was really great

711
00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:00,520
Speaker 3: spearence to me.

712
00:32:00,560 --> 00:32:02,080
Speaker 4: For a lot of people that is not the case

713
00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:04,320
Speaker 4: at all, So I had that confidence. For a lot

714
00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:05,840
Speaker 4: of people that get out of school, they had a

715
00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:08,200
Speaker 4: shocking experience with the beep tests or whatever. It was

716
00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:13,239
Speaker 4: exactly like color right exactly and don't know what to do.

717
00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:16,680
Speaker 4: Why do they put isn't it crazy in front of everyone?

718
00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:18,080
Speaker 1: It's terrible?

719
00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:19,280
Speaker 3: It is, It is terrible.

720
00:32:19,280 --> 00:32:21,240
Speaker 4: And for a lot of people that's there a really

721
00:32:21,280 --> 00:32:24,240
Speaker 4: informative experience in their relationship with exercise, so they just

722
00:32:24,280 --> 00:32:26,240
Speaker 4: don't do it. But we know that moving our bodies

723
00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:29,560
Speaker 4: is incredibly important, eating well is important, and so we

724
00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:31,880
Speaker 4: wanted to create a space, which is now the app

725
00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:34,920
Speaker 4: that started with the ebook, where we could where people

726
00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:36,800
Speaker 4: could come and they could be empowered with the tools

727
00:32:36,800 --> 00:32:40,000
Speaker 4: to lead a healthy lifestyle, but without the like the

728
00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:43,160
Speaker 4: kind of wrapping of diet culture. So no before and

729
00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:46,120
Speaker 4: after photos, we don't do them, no entering your weight,

730
00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:49,000
Speaker 4: no talking about calories in the app. For me, calorie

731
00:32:49,080 --> 00:32:53,520
Speaker 4: counting was very triggering with my disordered eating. So we've

732
00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:56,280
Speaker 4: kind of stripped all the pressure to look a certain

733
00:32:56,320 --> 00:32:59,280
Speaker 4: way and truly focus on kind of how how you feel.

734
00:32:59,320 --> 00:33:01,560
Speaker 4: And yeah, it's crazy now to look at where the

735
00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:04,240
Speaker 4: business is compared to where it started, but just started

736
00:33:04,280 --> 00:33:06,080
Speaker 4: through I suppose a shared experience of Steph and I

737
00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:07,920
Speaker 4: am wanting to create something to help people.

738
00:33:08,320 --> 00:33:12,480
Speaker 2: You have an incredibly engaged following and community, which is

739
00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:15,240
Speaker 2: something you've built up really authentically. I mean, you two,

740
00:33:15,640 --> 00:33:17,600
Speaker 2: it really seems that nothing is off limits with the

741
00:33:17,640 --> 00:33:18,680
Speaker 2: two of you, and I think.

742
00:33:18,560 --> 00:33:20,880
Speaker 3: That's what sometimes too much.

743
00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:25,480
Speaker 2: So well, are there sometimes where you think I need

744
00:33:25,520 --> 00:33:27,600
Speaker 2: to just pull back a little bit for self preservation?

745
00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:31,360
Speaker 2: Is it sometimes challenging to be that open and honest.

746
00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:34,680
Speaker 4: I think something I've learned is to never if there's

747
00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:36,440
Speaker 4: a saying that I'm going to butcher, but you should

748
00:33:36,520 --> 00:33:39,040
Speaker 4: never speak about your wounds while they're still healing or

749
00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:41,480
Speaker 4: something like that. Other people say it much nicer, so

750
00:33:41,520 --> 00:33:43,800
Speaker 4: I've learned to not That's been really important. When I've

751
00:33:43,840 --> 00:33:46,440
Speaker 4: opened up about things that I haven't actually worked through yet,

752
00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:48,680
Speaker 4: it's not helpful for anyone because you don't really have

753
00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:50,520
Speaker 4: a solution. I don't think you're in a good headspace

754
00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:55,600
Speaker 4: to actually help people. I think what's interesting actually in

755
00:33:55,680 --> 00:33:59,120
Speaker 4: thinking about my next chapter or whatever it might be.

756
00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:02,960
Speaker 4: With having children, Dren is thinking about the impact of

757
00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:06,920
Speaker 4: like talking about children on social media and sharing children. Obviously,

758
00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:09,520
Speaker 4: there's there's so many different opinions on it, but I

759
00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:11,640
Speaker 4: think that's something that I'll probably and it's hard to

760
00:34:11,680 --> 00:34:13,560
Speaker 4: know because I'm not there yet, but Old and I've

761
00:34:13,600 --> 00:34:15,719
Speaker 4: spoken about it a lot, and we definitely will not

762
00:34:15,840 --> 00:34:18,640
Speaker 4: be as open or sharing as.

763
00:34:18,520 --> 00:34:20,719
Speaker 3: Because it's not because that's their story to share it.

764
00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:23,040
Speaker 4: Like I can share about all of my life and

765
00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:26,080
Speaker 4: I'm the only one who's impacted, right, But when you

766
00:34:26,120 --> 00:34:29,239
Speaker 4: bring other people into it, then it's kind of like, well,

767
00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:32,200
Speaker 4: I can't ask this child for permission to be able.

768
00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:33,759
Speaker 3: To do this, and it is.

769
00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:35,759
Speaker 4: It's hard though, because when you share everything, it's like

770
00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:37,759
Speaker 4: you don't also want to hide the fact that you're

771
00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:40,040
Speaker 4: a mother, because I think women kind of feel pressured

772
00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:40,759
Speaker 4: to do that.

773
00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:43,160
Speaker 3: We either I feel like on social.

774
00:34:42,880 --> 00:34:46,080
Speaker 4: Media, I've spoken to so many women about this that

775
00:34:46,560 --> 00:34:48,040
Speaker 4: they either feel like they have to be one hundred

776
00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:50,600
Speaker 4: percent like motherhood influencer or that be the main part

777
00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:53,680
Speaker 4: of their brand, or they share nothing because they don't

778
00:34:53,719 --> 00:34:55,359
Speaker 4: want people to think that they don't take their career

779
00:34:55,400 --> 00:34:58,200
Speaker 4: seriously or whatever it might be, because their parents. And

780
00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:00,200
Speaker 4: so I'm trying to I don't know how do it,

781
00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:01,840
Speaker 4: but I'm going to try and hopefully find a balance

782
00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:04,399
Speaker 4: where I'm not hiding the fact that we have kids

783
00:35:04,400 --> 00:35:05,960
Speaker 4: because of part of our lives.

784
00:35:06,360 --> 00:35:07,480
Speaker 3: Hopefully we can have more than one.

785
00:35:07,480 --> 00:35:11,680
Speaker 4: I don't know, but I don't I won't share as

786
00:35:11,719 --> 00:35:14,400
Speaker 4: openly as I do about my life about the child's life,

787
00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:16,320
Speaker 4: but it will be here, be really interesting to navigate.

788
00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:17,000
Speaker 3: It's really hard.

789
00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:19,400
Speaker 2: It is hard at it evolved, you know, speaking of

790
00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:22,320
Speaker 2: being able to change your mind. We started sharing pictures

791
00:35:22,360 --> 00:35:25,520
Speaker 2: of our kids when they were babies, and as they

792
00:35:25,560 --> 00:35:30,480
Speaker 2: got older and they become more of themselves, not just

793
00:35:30,560 --> 00:35:33,240
Speaker 2: like a sort of nondescript baby, you know, totally.

794
00:35:33,840 --> 00:35:36,840
Speaker 3: I mean, they don't look identical, but similar, yes.

795
00:35:36,840 --> 00:35:39,480
Speaker 2: Yes so, but now they sort of have more of

796
00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:42,439
Speaker 2: the features that will make them identifiable for the rest

797
00:35:42,480 --> 00:35:44,799
Speaker 2: of their lives and certainly as they enter the school yard. Yes,

798
00:35:45,760 --> 00:35:48,200
Speaker 2: and so we decided to pull back. So we occasionally

799
00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:52,959
Speaker 2: might post something non identifiable, but that was our call

800
00:35:53,080 --> 00:35:57,560
Speaker 2: because we have public profiles on social media, and ultimately

801
00:35:57,680 --> 00:35:59,000
Speaker 2: it's your child, your family.

802
00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:00,640
Speaker 1: You have to follow your own gut.

803
00:36:00,719 --> 00:36:03,399
Speaker 4: Totally on it, and it is okay to change your mind.

804
00:36:03,440 --> 00:36:06,480
Speaker 4: It's something that sef has had to navigate as well.

805
00:36:06,520 --> 00:36:09,239
Speaker 4: I think you've spoken to her on TV about it. Yes,

806
00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:12,120
Speaker 4: we have in having to navigate that because Seph started

807
00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:14,040
Speaker 4: sharing and then decided, actually, no, I don't want to

808
00:36:14,040 --> 00:36:17,279
Speaker 4: share anymore. And it was so interesting to see the

809
00:36:17,360 --> 00:36:22,120
Speaker 4: pushback on her for that and how people were so angry,

810
00:36:22,680 --> 00:36:25,440
Speaker 4: and it's like, again, we can change our minds, we

811
00:36:25,520 --> 00:36:27,600
Speaker 4: can do what we think is best, you know, for

812
00:36:27,640 --> 00:36:28,240
Speaker 4: our children.

813
00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:31,279
Speaker 1: For sure, you'll figure it out. Oh, I hope so

814
00:36:31,440 --> 00:36:32,000
Speaker 1: you'll follow you.

815
00:36:32,680 --> 00:36:35,560
Speaker 2: So from a business perspective, if you were to speak

816
00:36:35,600 --> 00:36:40,239
Speaker 2: to a young entrepreneur or a hopeful entrepreneur in the

817
00:36:40,280 --> 00:36:43,319
Speaker 2: business world, what would be you know, one of the

818
00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:46,680
Speaker 2: big lessons that you've learned through your experience so far

819
00:36:46,719 --> 00:36:50,480
Speaker 2: with Kick something that maybe didn't work out, not a failure,

820
00:36:50,480 --> 00:36:52,880
Speaker 2: but a mistake or a misstep that has been a

821
00:36:52,920 --> 00:36:54,200
Speaker 2: really important learning for you.

822
00:36:55,120 --> 00:36:59,080
Speaker 4: I think one of the biggest things when you say

823
00:36:59,080 --> 00:37:00,759
Speaker 4: that that comes to mind that I think is so

824
00:37:00,800 --> 00:37:03,759
Speaker 4: important to speak about. And we've made a gazillion mistakes,

825
00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:05,960
Speaker 4: like so so so many. You're always going to make mistakes.

826
00:37:05,960 --> 00:37:08,839
Speaker 4: That's number one, and no one is perfect. Number two,

827
00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:10,759
Speaker 4: no one knows exactly what they're doing. I think we

828
00:37:10,840 --> 00:37:13,240
Speaker 4: have this ideal that all people that run a business

829
00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:15,280
Speaker 4: like have their shit together, they know every answer.

830
00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:16,879
Speaker 3: We absolutely do.

831
00:37:16,920 --> 00:37:19,120
Speaker 4: Not like half the time, honestly, I don't know what

832
00:37:19,160 --> 00:37:21,920
Speaker 4: I'm doing, but we just make it work. And I

833
00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:24,480
Speaker 4: think the third thing, and this is probably the most important,

834
00:37:24,640 --> 00:37:28,239
Speaker 4: is especially as women, like it's amazing to see so

835
00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:31,040
Speaker 4: many women building like you had Raach on the podcast

836
00:37:31,200 --> 00:37:33,160
Speaker 4: was some on the most incredible job with her businesses,

837
00:37:33,480 --> 00:37:35,000
Speaker 4: building businesses.

838
00:37:34,920 --> 00:37:37,279
Speaker 3: That you know tens or have.

839
00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:39,600
Speaker 4: Many years ago, we didn't have that many role models

840
00:37:39,640 --> 00:37:43,200
Speaker 4: that were doing that, and it's so incredible to see.

841
00:37:43,239 --> 00:37:45,680
Speaker 4: But I also think as women, what we know is

842
00:37:45,719 --> 00:37:49,160
Speaker 4: that we often if we feel like there's a gap

843
00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:53,239
Speaker 4: with our smarts, which is actually confident, we don't take

844
00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:57,080
Speaker 4: the leap and we don't do it. So I'm so

845
00:37:57,120 --> 00:37:59,480
Speaker 4: grateful that I had the confidence that I had when

846
00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:00,399
Speaker 4: I was That's interesting.

847
00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:01,959
Speaker 3: I feel like my confidence has gone through a journey.

848
00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:03,920
Speaker 4: I always have less now than I did when we started,

849
00:38:03,960 --> 00:38:06,400
Speaker 4: though we were so naive, and that was so magical

850
00:38:06,440 --> 00:38:08,719
Speaker 4: because I think if we had realized what we needed

851
00:38:08,719 --> 00:38:10,200
Speaker 4: to know to do it, we wouldn't have done it.

852
00:38:11,000 --> 00:38:15,880
Speaker 4: And I was actually at Vogue CODES to an event

853
00:38:15,920 --> 00:38:18,480
Speaker 4: each year and it's to promote women working in STEM

854
00:38:18,560 --> 00:38:21,200
Speaker 4: so in science, technology, engineering, and maths, which is incredible,

855
00:38:21,200 --> 00:38:23,360
Speaker 4: And there was a stat that Adwena said and it

856
00:38:23,440 --> 00:38:26,719
Speaker 4: stuck with me that forty two percent of young women

857
00:38:26,760 --> 00:38:30,279
Speaker 4: don't feel smart enough to enter STEM. Now they that's

858
00:38:30,320 --> 00:38:32,680
Speaker 4: not true in any way, that they're not smart enough

859
00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:35,600
Speaker 4: to enter, but they don't have I think the gap

860
00:38:35,640 --> 00:38:36,799
Speaker 4: there is a confidence gap.

861
00:38:36,840 --> 00:38:38,400
Speaker 3: They don't fit because if we haven't.

862
00:38:38,160 --> 00:38:40,279
Speaker 4: Done something before, like how we meant to know what

863
00:38:40,440 --> 00:38:42,279
Speaker 4: to do right, we don't know if we're smart enough

864
00:38:42,360 --> 00:38:43,959
Speaker 4: or not. And I don't think many of us aren't

865
00:38:43,960 --> 00:38:46,239
Speaker 4: smart enough. I think we just doubt ourselves. And so

866
00:38:46,320 --> 00:38:49,360
Speaker 4: I think my biggest advice would be when that noise,

867
00:38:49,440 --> 00:38:51,000
Speaker 4: like that self doubt or whatever you want to call it,

868
00:38:51,040 --> 00:38:52,400
Speaker 4: comes up in your head where you say I'm not

869
00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:55,680
Speaker 4: smart enough to do this. That's something that we know innately.

870
00:38:55,719 --> 00:38:58,120
Speaker 4: Women do so much more than men. It holds us

871
00:38:58,160 --> 00:39:00,520
Speaker 4: back so much, and often it's not about if we're

872
00:39:00,560 --> 00:39:02,920
Speaker 4: smart enough, it's just we just don't have the confidence

873
00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:05,240
Speaker 4: to do it, which we can find and we can build.

874
00:39:05,800 --> 00:39:07,880
Speaker 4: And so I think that's the most important thing, because

875
00:39:08,040 --> 00:39:11,400
Speaker 4: I do think it holds us back from so so

876
00:39:11,400 --> 00:39:13,560
Speaker 4: so much, and unfortunately, as women, we know it holds

877
00:39:13,640 --> 00:39:17,120
Speaker 4: us back more just how to go exactly, how to

878
00:39:17,200 --> 00:39:18,440
Speaker 4: go exactly right?

879
00:39:18,520 --> 00:39:19,760
Speaker 3: What you can do exactly?

880
00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:23,680
Speaker 1: You might surprise yourself. So are you a gen Z

881
00:39:24,080 --> 00:39:24,920
Speaker 1: or are you am?

882
00:39:24,960 --> 00:39:27,239
Speaker 3: I going to where I am?

883
00:39:27,560 --> 00:39:30,839
Speaker 4: I am like a millennial leaning out of my everywhere.

884
00:39:31,160 --> 00:39:32,040
Speaker 3: It's so funny.

885
00:39:32,520 --> 00:39:33,160
Speaker 1: I'm just the.

886
00:39:33,120 --> 00:39:39,040
Speaker 5: Most millennial millennial. Say I'm deeply millennial. Okay, So I'm

887
00:39:39,120 --> 00:39:42,200
Speaker 5: deeply millennial. I have a lot of things, but I'm

888
00:39:42,200 --> 00:39:43,600
Speaker 5: deeply millennial millennial.

889
00:39:44,160 --> 00:39:45,920
Speaker 1: What's the cutoff thirty for gen Z?

890
00:39:46,200 --> 00:39:46,319
Speaker 4: Oh?

891
00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:48,960
Speaker 3: I don't so I'm thirty two? Yeah maybe, or.

892
00:39:49,680 --> 00:39:51,240
Speaker 1: I wouldn't call you deeply millennial.

893
00:39:52,120 --> 00:39:55,760
Speaker 4: I'm deeply A lot of gen z Is in our team, okay,

894
00:39:55,880 --> 00:39:57,879
Speaker 4: And I feel like, do you know.

895
00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:03,280
Speaker 3: Older than that? Yes? I don't. I just don't. I don't.

896
00:40:03,760 --> 00:40:05,680
Speaker 3: And it's so funny. STEP's always like, why are you

897
00:40:05,680 --> 00:40:06,759
Speaker 3: trying to be like a gen Z?

898
00:40:07,400 --> 00:40:11,279
Speaker 1: Like I know it's expecting the way I talk. Yeah,

899
00:40:11,280 --> 00:40:12,319
Speaker 1: in the Gray. I love it.

900
00:40:12,680 --> 00:40:15,440
Speaker 2: I'm just I'm we have a really young team of

901
00:40:15,440 --> 00:40:19,879
Speaker 2: producers downstairs todaysha. They are giving me life. Yes, yeah

902
00:40:19,880 --> 00:40:22,320
Speaker 2: as they Yeah, they really are. It's fun and is

903
00:40:22,400 --> 00:40:28,920
Speaker 2: a viron and I reckon there is something really positive especially,

904
00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:31,640
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm mostly exposed to gen Z women in

905
00:40:31,719 --> 00:40:35,120
Speaker 2: the work that I do, and there's something really positive

906
00:40:35,280 --> 00:40:39,719
Speaker 2: about I think their attitude to the workplace and to

907
00:40:39,920 --> 00:40:42,399
Speaker 2: life in general and to just going out and getting it.

908
00:40:42,719 --> 00:40:44,640
Speaker 1: There's something really cool about that. And I'm sure you

909
00:40:44,680 --> 00:40:45,239
Speaker 1: see that too.

910
00:40:45,400 --> 00:40:47,279
Speaker 2: But of course here on this podcast we talk a

911
00:40:47,280 --> 00:40:50,399
Speaker 2: lot about the big financial hurdles that sit in front

912
00:40:50,440 --> 00:40:53,359
Speaker 2: of that generation in particular, and the generations that will

913
00:40:53,360 --> 00:40:56,080
Speaker 2: follow behind them, and how they are really locked out

914
00:40:56,120 --> 00:40:58,360
Speaker 2: of some of the traditional financial milestone that you know,

915
00:40:58,400 --> 00:41:01,160
Speaker 2: we've all prior to that tried to work towards and

916
00:41:01,160 --> 00:41:04,160
Speaker 2: tried to tick off on this you know forever list.

917
00:41:05,640 --> 00:41:10,680
Speaker 2: How has your upbring or how did your upbringing inform

918
00:41:10,800 --> 00:41:13,520
Speaker 2: your own approach to personal finance.

919
00:41:14,080 --> 00:41:16,720
Speaker 3: So for me, it's interesting.

920
00:41:16,719 --> 00:41:18,520
Speaker 4: I think you don't realize at the time until you

921
00:41:18,560 --> 00:41:22,080
Speaker 4: start learning about things like money values and things like that.

922
00:41:22,120 --> 00:41:26,080
Speaker 4: But for me, my upbringing because as I've kind of

923
00:41:26,120 --> 00:41:29,640
Speaker 4: spoken about with my parents separation and the financial stress

924
00:41:29,680 --> 00:41:32,319
Speaker 4: that when I think of my and again this is

925
00:41:32,360 --> 00:41:34,680
Speaker 4: I'm again speaking about people that aren't me and sharing

926
00:41:34,680 --> 00:41:38,319
Speaker 4: the story. I've shared this before and I can share this,

927
00:41:38,840 --> 00:41:41,759
Speaker 4: but financial stress was one of it, and it's also

928
00:41:41,920 --> 00:41:45,000
Speaker 4: not uncommon. Was one of the main reasons for my parents.

929
00:41:45,760 --> 00:41:48,040
Speaker 4: I remember arguments about money all the time, and so

930
00:41:48,160 --> 00:41:52,319
Speaker 4: what that meant is my mentality around money in relationship

931
00:41:52,360 --> 00:41:54,520
Speaker 4: with it was like a scarcity mindset. Like I remember

932
00:41:54,560 --> 00:41:56,839
Speaker 4: my mom was like we were never allowed to get

933
00:41:56,840 --> 00:41:58,480
Speaker 4: a credit card, which I don't think is a bad thing,

934
00:41:58,560 --> 00:42:00,279
Speaker 4: but it was like you can never like you never

935
00:42:00,320 --> 00:42:00,959
Speaker 4: want to be in debt.

936
00:42:00,960 --> 00:42:03,640
Speaker 3: You always have to have an emergency saving exactly.

937
00:42:03,719 --> 00:42:06,560
Speaker 4: You have to have an emergency savings account, and if

938
00:42:06,560 --> 00:42:08,919
Speaker 4: you don't have that, like it's like gloom and doom

939
00:42:09,040 --> 00:42:11,040
Speaker 4: because you never know what could happen. So it's kind

940
00:42:11,040 --> 00:42:13,640
Speaker 4: of this smart though it's not, but it's also this

941
00:42:14,239 --> 00:42:17,480
Speaker 4: mentality of kind of fear around money exactly. And so

942
00:42:17,600 --> 00:42:20,000
Speaker 4: for me it's interesting because I reflect on that and

943
00:42:20,080 --> 00:42:22,440
Speaker 4: I know that that was a very big part of

944
00:42:22,440 --> 00:42:24,360
Speaker 4: my drive. I was like, I will not if I

945
00:42:24,800 --> 00:42:27,440
Speaker 4: would do everything in my control, so this is not

946
00:42:27,680 --> 00:42:30,400
Speaker 4: my life, and I have independence around money and I

947
00:42:30,400 --> 00:42:32,200
Speaker 4: can make I have more freedom in my life and

948
00:42:32,239 --> 00:42:35,080
Speaker 4: I can make choices, and I don't feel at fear.

949
00:42:35,239 --> 00:42:35,880
Speaker 3: All the time.

950
00:42:36,560 --> 00:42:38,880
Speaker 4: And so it's interesting I look back on that and

951
00:42:38,920 --> 00:42:41,799
Speaker 4: I'm actually very grateful to have had that relationship with

952
00:42:41,840 --> 00:42:43,840
Speaker 4: money growing up, because it is there's no way I

953
00:42:43,840 --> 00:42:46,680
Speaker 4: would be sitting here if I didn't. But I think

954
00:42:46,719 --> 00:42:48,520
Speaker 4: the other part of it is I've had to really

955
00:42:49,440 --> 00:42:52,440
Speaker 4: work on undoing a little bit of it as I have,

956
00:42:52,600 --> 00:42:54,400
Speaker 4: Like I am now in a financial position that I

957
00:42:54,440 --> 00:42:57,880
Speaker 4: never thought I would be in, but I still have

958
00:42:58,000 --> 00:42:59,640
Speaker 4: this kind of scarcity mindset.

959
00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:02,760
Speaker 3: Sometimes I'm still afraid that it will exactly.

960
00:43:02,560 --> 00:43:04,400
Speaker 4: Exactly, And especially in the work that we do, I

961
00:43:04,480 --> 00:43:07,280
Speaker 4: think because relevance is incredibly important, we're.

962
00:43:07,160 --> 00:43:11,160
Speaker 2: Also at a relatively early I mean I'm definitely mid

963
00:43:11,239 --> 00:43:13,920
Speaker 2: but part time part of our careers, so there's still

964
00:43:14,080 --> 00:43:17,399
Speaker 2: decades worth of that clerk left, so it takes a.

965
00:43:17,400 --> 00:43:20,480
Speaker 3: Turn exactly exactly. And I think it's this balance.

966
00:43:20,520 --> 00:43:22,120
Speaker 4: So I do think a little bit of that is

967
00:43:22,200 --> 00:43:24,160
Speaker 4: good because we also don't want to be like, oh,

968
00:43:24,200 --> 00:43:27,360
Speaker 4: it'll be fine, and like kind of be ignorant to everything,

969
00:43:27,360 --> 00:43:30,440
Speaker 4: because being ignorant about finances is not something we should.

970
00:43:30,200 --> 00:43:32,960
Speaker 3: Do at all. The more informed we are, the better.

971
00:43:33,000 --> 00:43:34,560
Speaker 4: But I think the other side of it is I

972
00:43:34,560 --> 00:43:38,240
Speaker 4: would also love to trust in myself and the world

973
00:43:38,280 --> 00:43:40,560
Speaker 4: and my work a little bit more than I do,

974
00:43:40,680 --> 00:43:41,000
Speaker 4: not be.

975
00:43:41,000 --> 00:43:44,000
Speaker 1: So consumed by the fear of what if. Exactly on

976
00:43:44,080 --> 00:43:44,359
Speaker 1: the track.

977
00:43:44,560 --> 00:43:47,279
Speaker 2: What about you and Dalton, how early in your relationship

978
00:43:47,280 --> 00:43:50,680
Speaker 2: did you start talking about like long term financial goals.

979
00:43:51,120 --> 00:43:55,040
Speaker 3: So it was pretty early. So we bought a house together.

980
00:43:55,080 --> 00:43:58,279
Speaker 4: Actually, we'd both been saving for a house kind of individually,

981
00:43:58,320 --> 00:44:00,560
Speaker 4: and again that was years ago.

982
00:44:00,520 --> 00:44:02,040
Speaker 3: Without it being maybe seven or.

983
00:44:02,120 --> 00:44:07,680
Speaker 4: Eight years ago, the housing market has changed drastically. Oh

984
00:44:07,760 --> 00:44:10,759
Speaker 4: my goodness since then, like it is doubled, like it

985
00:44:10,800 --> 00:44:11,280
Speaker 4: has become.

986
00:44:11,400 --> 00:44:13,239
Speaker 3: It was definitely difficult to buy a house. We saved

987
00:44:13,239 --> 00:44:13,640
Speaker 3: really hard.

988
00:44:13,680 --> 00:44:17,440
Speaker 4: I also was very privileged to be earning good money

989
00:44:17,440 --> 00:44:18,560
Speaker 4: at that time, and so was he.

990
00:44:19,120 --> 00:44:21,680
Speaker 3: But it is so much harder now.

991
00:44:21,719 --> 00:44:24,120
Speaker 4: And that was only seven or eight years ago, So

992
00:44:24,120 --> 00:44:26,520
Speaker 4: I think that's really important to acknowledge. So we had

993
00:44:26,520 --> 00:44:28,640
Speaker 4: bought a house together, and so because of that, we

994
00:44:28,719 --> 00:44:32,960
Speaker 4: actually combined our money very early. We definitely have different

995
00:44:33,000 --> 00:44:36,000
Speaker 4: a different relationship with money. Dalton's a little bit more

996
00:44:36,000 --> 00:44:38,600
Speaker 4: abundant in his thinking than I am, and that's something

997
00:44:38,600 --> 00:44:39,640
Speaker 4: we've had to navigate it.

998
00:44:39,560 --> 00:44:41,360
Speaker 3: It is, it's.

999
00:44:40,719 --> 00:44:43,080
Speaker 4: Important, and I think what's been very important is me

1000
00:44:43,160 --> 00:44:46,279
Speaker 4: communicating and same with him, like why I feel this

1001
00:44:46,320 --> 00:44:49,320
Speaker 4: way and kind of this is why I feel worried

1002
00:44:49,400 --> 00:44:51,840
Speaker 4: or scared about money, so they can understand because otherwise

1003
00:44:51,840 --> 00:44:54,080
Speaker 4: they can just you can get too arguments and it

1004
00:44:54,120 --> 00:44:57,080
Speaker 4: can cause stress. Right, So we did, we did kind

1005
00:44:57,120 --> 00:44:59,279
Speaker 4: of and I said to him, it's really important for

1006
00:44:59,360 --> 00:45:01,960
Speaker 4: me to make sure I have like financial independence is

1007
00:45:02,040 --> 00:45:05,080
Speaker 4: very important. Also like being able to build towards financial freedom,

1008
00:45:05,280 --> 00:45:08,560
Speaker 4: you know if that means something different to everyone. And

1009
00:45:08,600 --> 00:45:10,880
Speaker 4: so I spoke about the fact that I want to invest,

1010
00:45:11,080 --> 00:45:13,920
Speaker 4: like I want to buy this house because it's an investment, right,

1011
00:45:13,960 --> 00:45:16,320
Speaker 4: I don't want to put my money into depreciating assets

1012
00:45:16,360 --> 00:45:16,920
Speaker 4: or whatever.

1013
00:45:16,680 --> 00:45:18,359
Speaker 3: It might be. And we were very aligned on that,

1014
00:45:18,440 --> 00:45:19,080
Speaker 3: which is good.

1015
00:45:19,080 --> 00:45:20,759
Speaker 4: But it has it is something that I think in

1016
00:45:20,840 --> 00:45:23,840
Speaker 4: any relationship is it's hard to navigate, but it's just

1017
00:45:23,960 --> 00:45:27,200
Speaker 4: really important you share why you feel the way you

1018
00:45:27,239 --> 00:45:29,439
Speaker 4: feel so then you can understand each other.

1019
00:45:29,640 --> 00:45:34,360
Speaker 2: Really good advice, do you seek out financial content advice.

1020
00:45:34,719 --> 00:45:37,040
Speaker 2: Is there someone you would credit with sort of steering

1021
00:45:37,080 --> 00:45:40,760
Speaker 2: you with your investments or your plans for the future.

1022
00:45:40,960 --> 00:45:43,799
Speaker 3: Oh, good question. I think I probably wouldn't say one

1023
00:45:43,800 --> 00:45:44,640
Speaker 3: person in particular.

1024
00:45:44,719 --> 00:45:48,000
Speaker 4: I did, And I think it's also important as well

1025
00:45:48,080 --> 00:45:50,400
Speaker 4: to acknowledge I didn't grow up in a family where

1026
00:45:50,480 --> 00:45:52,560
Speaker 4: some people grow up in a family where their parents invest.

1027
00:45:53,239 --> 00:45:55,160
Speaker 4: My family, and this is very I think, very much

1028
00:45:55,200 --> 00:45:57,400
Speaker 4: the Australian experience was you get a house and you

1029
00:45:57,400 --> 00:46:01,280
Speaker 4: get a mortgage, and like that's the totallycrest exactly of investment.

1030
00:46:01,400 --> 00:46:04,239
Speaker 4: And obviously now we have so much more education around it.

1031
00:46:04,560 --> 00:46:07,640
Speaker 4: I think that's really important because what I've seen with

1032
00:46:07,760 --> 00:46:10,640
Speaker 4: families that have had have already like they're from money,

1033
00:46:10,640 --> 00:46:13,320
Speaker 4: but then also they inform their kids with that education,

1034
00:46:13,880 --> 00:46:17,880
Speaker 4: they then build their wealth, whereas people that don't have

1035
00:46:17,960 --> 00:46:21,200
Speaker 4: that understanding, Like that information was so hard to get,

1036
00:46:21,640 --> 00:46:25,320
Speaker 4: but now it's available everywhere. There are so many incredible,

1037
00:46:25,360 --> 00:46:29,120
Speaker 4: like in particular female kind of financial advisors that have

1038
00:46:29,200 --> 00:46:32,520
Speaker 4: public profiles and have podcasts and share such incredible information

1039
00:46:32,560 --> 00:46:33,920
Speaker 4: and have amazing books as well.

1040
00:46:34,320 --> 00:46:36,920
Speaker 1: Benjamin who is on this podcast A Lady's Finance Club.

1041
00:46:37,040 --> 00:46:40,480
Speaker 4: Yeah, there's so many Victoria Divine Simran, like, there's so

1042
00:46:40,640 --> 00:46:47,120
Speaker 4: many amazing, amazing people and I've learned so much from them.

1043
00:46:47,280 --> 00:46:49,160
Speaker 3: And I think as well, it's important.

1044
00:46:48,800 --> 00:46:52,280
Speaker 4: To look at what's your risk profile with investing, because

1045
00:46:52,400 --> 00:46:54,280
Speaker 4: you know, and that's important to talk about with your partner.

1046
00:46:54,320 --> 00:46:56,759
Speaker 4: So I don't have a super highping Utdale, super high

1047
00:46:56,840 --> 00:46:59,440
Speaker 4: risk profile. So that's something that's been important for me

1048
00:46:59,520 --> 00:47:02,200
Speaker 4: to share with Dulton, Like, I'm not buying crypto, it's

1049
00:47:02,239 --> 00:47:03,520
Speaker 4: just for me that would give me. It's just not

1050
00:47:03,800 --> 00:47:06,800
Speaker 4: what I want to do, but it is really really important.

1051
00:47:06,840 --> 00:47:08,960
Speaker 4: I think the more information we have, the better, and

1052
00:47:08,960 --> 00:47:10,800
Speaker 4: I think it's good too. A lot of these incredible

1053
00:47:10,840 --> 00:47:14,440
Speaker 4: women are making this information more accessible and also interesting

1054
00:47:14,520 --> 00:47:17,799
Speaker 4: because traditionally, as women, we think, oh, it's unfortunate, bet,

1055
00:47:17,840 --> 00:47:20,200
Speaker 4: our finances just aren't for us, but they are.

1056
00:47:20,360 --> 00:47:21,520
Speaker 3: Again, it's a confidence thing.

1057
00:47:21,520 --> 00:47:23,839
Speaker 4: It's not that men are better at numbers or finances

1058
00:47:23,960 --> 00:47:28,640
Speaker 4: genetically they are absolutely not. But yeah, it's amazing now

1059
00:47:28,719 --> 00:47:30,560
Speaker 4: to see how much information is out there.

1060
00:47:30,600 --> 00:47:33,520
Speaker 1: Do you chat with your girlfriends about money and finances?

1061
00:47:33,680 --> 00:47:34,160
Speaker 3: Yeah? I do.

1062
00:47:34,239 --> 00:47:36,040
Speaker 4: I do, And I think that's important because it has

1063
00:47:36,080 --> 00:47:38,400
Speaker 4: been such a taboo topic. For so long.

1064
00:47:38,719 --> 00:47:39,359
Speaker 3: Not all of them.

1065
00:47:39,440 --> 00:47:41,440
Speaker 4: I think there are some some of my friends probably

1066
00:47:41,520 --> 00:47:43,560
Speaker 4: don't feel as comfortable, and that's okay. It's like important

1067
00:47:43,600 --> 00:47:46,360
Speaker 4: to respect people's boundaries, right, but it is important to

1068
00:47:46,400 --> 00:47:46,920
Speaker 4: talk about.

1069
00:47:47,080 --> 00:47:52,440
Speaker 2: So next stop for Laura Henshaw is motherhood. Yes, what's

1070
00:47:52,520 --> 00:47:54,719
Speaker 2: the overriding emotion for you heading into that?

1071
00:47:54,800 --> 00:47:55,000
Speaker 1: Now?

1072
00:47:55,280 --> 00:47:59,160
Speaker 4: Oh, I'm excited, which is I'm so grateful to feel

1073
00:47:59,360 --> 00:48:03,120
Speaker 4: that way, fully nervous, especially for giving birth. So finally,

1074
00:48:03,200 --> 00:48:05,520
Speaker 4: like so many women and friends that I've spoken to.

1075
00:48:05,600 --> 00:48:08,920
Speaker 3: Like, I love being pregnant. I love labor. I'm like, oh,

1076
00:48:10,200 --> 00:48:11,120
Speaker 3: I feel like that.

1077
00:48:12,719 --> 00:48:15,080
Speaker 4: So yes, I feel like and it's interesting too, Like

1078
00:48:15,120 --> 00:48:17,000
Speaker 4: I don't know what I thought again, this is just

1079
00:48:17,280 --> 00:48:19,319
Speaker 4: something a story I told myself that was untrue. But

1080
00:48:19,719 --> 00:48:21,560
Speaker 4: I thought the second I felt pregnant, I'd be like

1081
00:48:21,600 --> 00:48:25,360
Speaker 4: wanting to listen to every podcast on parenting, like about labor,

1082
00:48:25,520 --> 00:48:26,440
Speaker 4: read all the experiences.

1083
00:48:26,520 --> 00:48:28,960
Speaker 3: I'm like at this point, don't really.

1084
00:48:29,719 --> 00:48:32,640
Speaker 2: Sometimes this is one this is one topic where sometimes

1085
00:48:32,640 --> 00:48:35,480
Speaker 2: I think ignorance is yeah, so that's what I'm going

1086
00:48:35,520 --> 00:48:39,480
Speaker 2: for it. Birth is totally different, exactly totally different.

1087
00:48:39,520 --> 00:48:41,839
Speaker 4: And I've read a few stories where I'm like, oh,

1088
00:48:41,920 --> 00:48:44,000
Speaker 4: that just gave me so much anxiety. I think I'm

1089
00:48:44,040 --> 00:48:46,560
Speaker 4: just best to be ignorant, and I was. I'm so

1090
00:48:46,640 --> 00:48:49,080
Speaker 4: lucky to have Obstrician. She will help me, She's she

1091
00:48:49,200 --> 00:48:53,360
Speaker 4: is an expert. So yeah, I'm not I'm not super

1092
00:48:53,360 --> 00:48:55,440
Speaker 4: excited to be giving, but also grateful you know that

1093
00:48:55,800 --> 00:48:56,480
Speaker 4: hopefully I can.

1094
00:48:56,719 --> 00:48:59,919
Speaker 2: Yes, well, whatever happens, happens, thank you will be one.

1095
00:49:00,280 --> 00:49:01,600
Speaker 1: I can't wait to hear the good news on the

1096
00:49:01,640 --> 00:49:03,480
Speaker 1: other side before we wrap.

1097
00:49:03,760 --> 00:49:07,719
Speaker 2: From a business perspective, is there one moment or one

1098
00:49:07,960 --> 00:49:11,719
Speaker 2: achievement of milestone that has made you most proud through

1099
00:49:11,760 --> 00:49:12,800
Speaker 2: your professional career?

1100
00:49:13,280 --> 00:49:14,280
Speaker 3: Such a good question.

1101
00:49:15,560 --> 00:49:18,680
Speaker 4: I think it is the impact through a Kick of

1102
00:49:18,719 --> 00:49:20,520
Speaker 4: what we've kind of been able to do in the

1103
00:49:20,560 --> 00:49:23,200
Speaker 4: stories that we hear from community members. Because when you

1104
00:49:23,239 --> 00:49:26,520
Speaker 4: have it, because Kick is a digital business, the numbers

1105
00:49:26,560 --> 00:49:28,799
Speaker 4: can just become like, you know, we know we have

1106
00:49:28,880 --> 00:49:31,920
Speaker 4: this subscription base, it's grown by whatever percent, our revenue

1107
00:49:31,920 --> 00:49:34,839
Speaker 4: is strong, whatever it might be. But you see these

1108
00:49:34,920 --> 00:49:37,560
Speaker 4: numbers and you don't really realize like what impact that

1109
00:49:37,719 --> 00:49:40,120
Speaker 4: has on people personally, like what the stories are and

1110
00:49:40,160 --> 00:49:42,479
Speaker 4: so being able to meet our community in real life

1111
00:49:42,480 --> 00:49:44,880
Speaker 4: and speak to them about the impact kicks had and

1112
00:49:44,960 --> 00:49:46,920
Speaker 4: it's not things like people don't come up to us

1113
00:49:46,920 --> 00:49:48,560
Speaker 4: and say, oh my god, I lost five kilos. What

1114
00:49:48,560 --> 00:49:51,200
Speaker 4: they'll say to us is I have never been able

1115
00:49:51,200 --> 00:49:53,239
Speaker 4: to wear shorts in my entire life because I've never

1116
00:49:53,239 --> 00:49:55,319
Speaker 4: felt like I was good enough, and now I can.

1117
00:49:55,400 --> 00:49:57,799
Speaker 4: And it's not because my body's changed. It's because I

1118
00:49:57,840 --> 00:50:01,160
Speaker 4: now feel worthy and I don't care about cellulite or

1119
00:50:01,200 --> 00:50:02,000
Speaker 4: whatever it might be.

1120
00:50:02,040 --> 00:50:03,359
Speaker 3: I don't feel defined by that.

1121
00:50:04,360 --> 00:50:07,000
Speaker 4: Or maybe someone that's never ever been able to run

1122
00:50:07,000 --> 00:50:08,759
Speaker 4: before because they did the beep test in school. It

1123
00:50:08,800 --> 00:50:11,640
Speaker 4: was humiliating, they hated it, they never thought they could run,

1124
00:50:11,680 --> 00:50:13,799
Speaker 4: and now they're running a half marathon through doing the

1125
00:50:13,840 --> 00:50:16,680
Speaker 4: program and it's helped them. Like, there was one story

1126
00:50:16,800 --> 00:50:22,000
Speaker 4: of this woman that was navigating a domestically violent relationship

1127
00:50:22,000 --> 00:50:24,720
Speaker 4: which is just horrible, and she was able to connect

1128
00:50:25,000 --> 00:50:29,239
Speaker 4: with our community through running through our run clubs, and

1129
00:50:28,719 --> 00:50:32,880
Speaker 4: the confidence that she built in herself and do something

1130
00:50:32,920 --> 00:50:35,160
Speaker 4: she never thought she could is what enabled her to

1131
00:50:35,239 --> 00:50:38,160
Speaker 4: leave her relationship. And so it's the stuff like that

1132
00:50:38,160 --> 00:50:40,120
Speaker 4: that's like this, this is why we do it.

1133
00:50:40,120 --> 00:50:40,680
Speaker 1: It's amazing.

1134
00:50:40,880 --> 00:50:43,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I'm so excited for this next stage for

1135
00:50:43,400 --> 00:50:46,120
Speaker 2: you congratulations, Thank you, Thank you for finding time now

1136
00:50:46,280 --> 00:50:48,319
Speaker 2: very busy time of yours to come and chat.

1137
00:50:48,440 --> 00:50:50,080
Speaker 3: Thank you for having me, Thanks Laura.

1138
00:50:50,320 --> 00:50:52,360
Speaker 2: And thank you for listening to this episode of the

1139
00:50:52,400 --> 00:50:54,280
Speaker 2: Payoff with Me. Sylvia Jeffries.

1140
00:50:54,600 --> 00:50:56,560
Speaker 1: To get our episodes for free as soon as.

1141
00:50:56,520 --> 00:50:59,319
Speaker 2: We published, press the follow button in your podcast app

1142
00:50:59,400 --> 00:50:59,839
Speaker 2: right now.

1143
00:51:00,120 --> 00:51:00,879
Speaker 1: See you next time.