Speaker 1: I've worked at companies that have got HR slogans plastered
Speaker 1: all over the walls, telling me that the company is
Speaker 1: your friend, But it's often the complete opposite, isn't.
Speaker 2: It That is correct?
Speaker 3: It is the complete opposite. Now, I'm not saying that
Speaker 3: HR people aren't nice people, or a lot of nice
Speaker 3: HR people out there, I know quite a few. However,
Speaker 3: people need to realize that the company pays for the
Speaker 3: HR manager and the HR department. They're not paying them
Speaker 3: to protect you against the company or someone in the company.
Speaker 1: I've always got the impression that HR are there to
Speaker 1: protect the employer.
Speaker 3: They are. Look, they're pretty much a risk navigating system
Speaker 3: for the employer. So obviously risk means we want to
Speaker 3: make sure we're hiring the right people so we don't
Speaker 3: have to rehire because it's so expensive. We also don't
Speaker 3: want any grief or anything that's going to disrupt the
Speaker 3: productivity of the company, because it's faced. Businesses, especially big businesses,
Speaker 3: are about making money efficiently, so that's their job. Their
Speaker 3: job is to make sure that's happening. So it's running
Speaker 3: workshops or identifying a problem and removing it. But it
Speaker 3: doesn't necessarily mean the problem that is that is your
Speaker 3: problem is also their problem.
Speaker 1: Do you think it's to your detriment to go to Waitchard?
Speaker 1: Do you think you're better off just wearing it or
Speaker 1: moving into another company.
Speaker 3: Look, it can be to your detriment unless you have so.
Speaker 3: For example, if you've been bullied or harass which happens
Speaker 3: often and people and the bullies are very very good
Speaker 3: at that. But if you're tracking everything that's happening to
Speaker 3: you and you've got evidence, then HR need.
Speaker 2: To listen to that.
Speaker 3: They're not going to listen to you just saying this
Speaker 3: person's harassing me or this is what's happening to me.
Speaker 3: You need proof and you need like a log book
Speaker 3: of what's happened to you. Then they have to take
Speaker 3: you seriously, and sometimes that will literally remove you from
Speaker 3: your role into a different department because the person that's
Speaker 3: doing it to you so high up and they're very connected,
Speaker 3: or they're not going anywhere.
Speaker 1: It seems that if you've got someone who's in a
Speaker 1: position where they're your boss and they're making your life hard,
Speaker 1: the longer they've been with the company, the more chances
Speaker 1: are that this has happened before and that HR are
Speaker 1: waiting for you to come knocking on the door.
Speaker 3: Well, yes, but also what's really disappointing, and I see
Speaker 3: this all the time with the people I work with
Speaker 3: in clients, is the fact that that person can cause
Speaker 3: so much grief for the whole company by retaliation or
Speaker 3: throwing a tantrum.
Speaker 2: Or because they know where the bodies are buried, yes.
Speaker 3: With blackmout, so they'll keep them. And then you're the
Speaker 3: one that's been hurt. So don't rely on HR to
Speaker 3: be your friend. Use it as a tool, but make
Speaker 3: sure you're prepared for all options.
Speaker 1: And when they plaster their windows with all of these
Speaker 1: slogans making you think that they are employee friendly, is
Speaker 1: that a legality or is that just to try and
Speaker 1: give you the inference that they are In fact, it's
Speaker 1: there for you.
Speaker 3: Well, it's definitely trying to make sure that they're ticking
Speaker 3: the box, that they're doing the right things by law,
Speaker 3: that there are a safe place for everyone, and that
Speaker 3: everyone is treated equally. So they've got to say it,
Speaker 3: but doesn't necessarily mean that all the companies deliver on that.
Speaker 2: So what's the point of HR then?
Speaker 1: Is it just something that's perfunctory, that's there just to
Speaker 1: make you feel secure as an employee.
Speaker 3: Oh, it's just a governance and risk mitigating department for
Speaker 3: the company, for the company itself, and a recruiter for
Speaker 3: the company. And there might be some training components to
Speaker 3: you know, a lot of companies offer training. And this
Speaker 3: is another thing, although offer you know, sexual harassment training
Speaker 3: doesn't mean it's going to work. But they've ticked the
Speaker 3: box to say that they've run it.
Speaker 2: Do you think that's a government thing that they have
Speaker 2: to do that they.
Speaker 3: Do it because if they don't have all these things
Speaker 3: written down, for example, they might miss out on contracts,
Speaker 3: they might miss out on you know, the criteria for
Speaker 3: ESG or for being you know, workplace gender equality and
Speaker 3: things like that. So a lot of these organizations play
Speaker 3: the game, but it doesn't mean it's rippling down to individual.
Speaker 1: And so if you go to HR, I've often thought
Speaker 1: this that there's nothing confidential about it one, and that
Speaker 1: it'll get back to the person you're complaining about. And
Speaker 1: also I've often thought that it goes against you in
Speaker 1: your record somewhere, that you're a bit of a complainer.
Speaker 3: Oh. Absolutely, And I've seen so many people go to
Speaker 3: HR genuinely with you know, their documentation, and they're seen
Speaker 3: as the difficult person, and then the person they complained
Speaker 3: about tells everyone and then they all turn on you,
Speaker 3: and then you're having you're highly stressed at work.
Speaker 2: It's it's not worth it.
Speaker 3: The only time you should go to HR is when
Speaker 3: your case is so solid and so powerful and you
Speaker 3: have a backup job waiting for you, and you can
Speaker 3: go in there with guns are blazing.
Speaker 2: You know, well, if you've got a.
Speaker 1: Job waiting for you, it's just really a way of
Speaker 1: getting retribution, isn't it before you get to go.
Speaker 3: Well, it's satisfying, right, But that's what I always say
Speaker 3: to people.
Speaker 2: Always have another job available.
Speaker 3: Like, even if you're in a job that you love,
Speaker 3: all it takes is for them to hire one person
Speaker 3: or one thing to change and you hate your job.
Speaker 2: Have you ever gone to h I have.
Speaker 3: I've been bullied in the workplace, but my backup was
Speaker 3: that I used to tell my manager on a regular
Speaker 3: basis what was happening. And I actually stood up to
Speaker 3: my particular bully. And they were a lot older than me.
Speaker 3: I was only in my twenties and there was a
Speaker 3: male and then they went to HR and complained about me,
Speaker 3: and so Hi instantaneously took their side, and it wasn't
Speaker 3: until my manager said, no, she's been complaining about him
Speaker 3: for six months but didn't want him to lose his job,
Speaker 3: so she didn't say anything. And that's only when she
Speaker 3: went oh. But the initial was like, oh, she's in
Speaker 3: the role. We know because you've got all these mates
Speaker 3: and everything to kind of back him, and my boss
Speaker 3: went no, No, he's been harassing her for some time now.
Speaker 2: Did somebody go, oh, is this about Amanda again?
Speaker 3: Well, that happens now, but more like you know, with
Speaker 3: people I work with. But it's just really interesting. I
Speaker 3: was in my twenties and this man was in his forties.
Speaker 3: Like the power imbalance of that was horrific. So it's
Speaker 3: kind of like the best manipulated, the most connected, the
Speaker 3: best performer of lies is the person they listen to.