S1: I'm Jacqueline Maley, and you're listening to Inside Politics from
S1: the newsrooms of the Sydney Morning Herald and The Age.
S1: And today we have something very, very special and a
S1: little bit different because our beloved associate editor and special writer,
S1: Tony Rice, is going to be stepping back from daily
S1: newsroom duties after 50 years in journalism. This week, Tony's
S1: covered federal politics for about 30 years, and he's seen
S1: a lot. Readers who follow his work will know that
S1: his political observations are always astute. They're wry, they're funny,
S1: and they're delivered with plenty of heart. He's a beautiful writer,
S1: but unusually for a journalist, he also has quite a
S1: compassionate eye as well as a steely one when required. Yesterday,
S1: the prime minister, Anthony Albanese, spoke about Tony in Question
S1: Time and said that Tony has always been a harvester
S1: of moments.
S2: Finding the small things that so many of us may
S2: miss and deftly weaving them into a much bigger picture.
S2: Many riders.
S1: So this week we want to harvest some of Tony's
S1: moments for our podcast. Tony, welcome to the show.
S3: Thanks very much, Jacqueline.
S1: And of course, we have our chief political correspondent, Paul
S1: Satchell in the studio in Canberra with Tony as well. Tony,
S1: I really love that description of you as a harvester
S1: of moments, because you arrived in the press gallery in
S1: 1989 as chief political correspondent for The Canberra Times. Bob
S1: Hawke was the Prime minister and he was very much
S1: on the front foot with you, wasn't he? He invited
S1: you straight away down to his office to meet him.
S1: Can you tell us what happened at that meeting?
S3: Well, he's a very canny politician, Bob Hawke, and he
S3: was also he also had this charisma, I suppose, that
S3: people used to talk about. And I got I got
S3: a call in my office. I was still very wet
S3: behind the ears, didn't have a clue what I was
S3: doing really, and the voice said, ah, Hawkie would like
S3: to see you in his office. And I thought, of
S3: course he was going to drop a great story or
S3: something rather. So I grabbed my notebook and finally found
S3: my way through the labyrinth of corridors to his office.
S3: And he's sitting there with a cigar and he said, ah, mate,
S3: you don't need the, uh, the notebook. His purpose was twofold.
S3: I think one was, uh, generosity to somebody new in
S3: the gallery. The other, I suspect, was that he, he
S3: wanted to, uh, harness this new bloke in the gallery
S3: just in case, down the track, because he, he said, look, uh, yeah,
S3: if you need need a steer on any of, uh,
S3: any story you're doing, um, just just give us a call,
S3: you know, give give the office a call and we'll
S3: fix you up. So, uh, I took a little while
S3: to realize that, of course, he was, uh, being a
S3: politician there, but he was. He was a very interesting guy. Um,
S3: Bob Hawke in 1989. Of course, he'd already been prime
S3: minister for some time since 1983. A very seasoned politician
S3: and a very natural politician, he came into politics. So
S3: from the outside and straight to straight to the prime ministership, really.
S3: So his way of being able to relate to somebody
S3: who was pretty nervous, I've got to say, I was, um,
S3: was very practiced.
S1: So he had those marvellous interpersonal skills. He was an
S1: incredible advocate for policy. He knew how to wrangle his
S1: party room. And when you met him, he would have
S1: really been at the height of his powers. I mean,
S1: can you give listeners a sense of what what it
S1: was like to see a really great prime minister in
S1: full flight and, you know, effectively changing the country and
S1: pushing through all these really great reforms? What was it
S1: like to see him at the height of his powers?
S3: Well, of course it was. It was a double act.
S3: There was Hawke and Keating. Keating and Hawke, you know.
S3: And so a lot of the policies that had, uh,
S3: had changed were changing Australia's economy and Australia's outlook on
S3: the world had come from both of their offices and
S3: from the cabinet itself. Hawke, as I understood it and
S3: learned from others, really did seek consensus among his senior ministers.
S3: He didn't didn't rule the roost and demand that they
S3: follow whatever. He allowed things to percolate and to be
S3: debated and worked out. And he usually got, I suppose,
S3: the outcome that he wanted in the first place. But
S3: he was already, I think, getting to that period where
S3: the cracks were going to show. And that happened the
S3: following year in the 1990 election, where he very nearly
S3: lost it to to Peacock. And of course, uh, Paul
S3: Keating by then, uh, was pretty much at the end
S3: of his patience and decided he was going to go
S3: for the prime ministership.
S1: So when did you see any sort of moments of
S1: real vulnerability in Hawke? Because he did have, you know,
S1: a famously sort of volatile personal life, you might say.
S1: And he had some real tragedy within his family life.
S1: Did you ever see those close personal moments when he
S1: expressed vulnerability?
S3: I can't say that I saw them close up. Of course,
S3: there was the famous occasion where he went on TV and, um,
S3: confirmed that one of his daughters had a heroin addiction,
S3: and he spilt real tears there.
S4: You don't cease to be a husband. You don't you
S4: don't cease to be a father like any father. I
S4: loved my daughter. I trust her.
S5: That I think.
S3: Hawke was somebody who could spill tears and not feel
S3: perturbed about it. He. I think he was pretty, pretty
S3: sure of who he was. And of course, a Prime
S3: Minister has, by dint of the fact that they have
S3: made it to the prime ministership, a great deal of
S3: self-confidence and, uh, and belief in their powers, even in
S3: those times, I guess at 3:00 in the morning when
S3: everybody wonders how things are going, really? Um, he didn't
S3: really show that. Um, not at that time anyway.
S1: Paul Keating obviously came along next and he famously said
S1: that when you change, Prime Minister, you change the country.
S1: How did the country change and how did politics change
S1: with Keating? What was his leadership style to observe close up?
S3: Well, um, number one, Keating came in to to try
S3: to save the furniture because Peacock had nearly won the
S3: 1990 election. And Keating challenged halfway through the next year
S3: and then won at the end of 1991. And coming
S3: along was John Hewson with this giant manifesto called fightback,
S3: and that Keating had already said he could defeat. But
S3: Hawke couldn't. His argument was that it wasn't an arithmetical, uh, argument.
S3: It was about culture and how it would affect the nation. And, uh,
S3: and he did. He, he he devoted most of that period.
S3: And you've got to remember, it was just after a,
S3: the economic downturn that the recession to have the recession,
S3: we had to have. Um, and a lot of. And
S3: he knew that a lot of people were against him,
S3: particularly the middle class that felt that it had been
S3: let down and hollowed out. Um, but he so he
S3: became this, uh, jackhammer, I suppose, um, going at John Hewson,
S3: day after day after day and the fight back. And
S3: you'll recall that very famous occasion in Parliament where Hewson said, well,
S3: if you're so confident, why don't you call an election?
S3: And he went. Because I want to do you slowly.
S3: There's got to be a bit of sport in this
S3: for all of us.
S6: I asked the Prime Minister, if you are so confident
S6: about your view of Fight Back, why won't you call
S6: an early election? Of. Course. I might because I want
S6: to move slowly. I want to do you slowly. I know,
S6: I know, there's got to be a bit of sport
S6: in this for all of us. No, no. There's got
S6: to be a bit of sport in this for all
S6: of us.
S3: He had that ability to just grab the moment and
S3: turn it into something that, you know, put your hair back. Really. Um,
S3: but and he won the election. I don't think he
S3: really believed he was going to win at the end.
S3: I don't think a lot of his staff did either.
S3: And having won in 1993, um, I think he became
S3: too triumphant. And for, for the, the taste of a
S3: lot of Australians. And he wasn't really sure where he
S3: was going. I don't think he'd done all his all
S3: his hard policy stuff during the period when he was treasurer.
S3: He'd had his big political moment as prime minister, and
S3: then he was at a bit of a loss. And, uh,
S3: of course, then came this extraordinary situation where John Howard
S3: was on the rise and Paul Keating couldn't believe that
S3: and it really, really unsettled him.
S7: It's often said, Tony, that the political leaders of today
S7: don't have the same ability to argue for big reform
S7: and push a case and convince the public. And people
S7: obviously cite Hawke, Keating and Howard, which I'm sure Jack's
S7: about to go into. Do you subscribe to that theory,
S7: or do you think that the modern era for a
S7: number of different factors, both the crises that we're facing,
S7: but also the modern form of communication make, makes governing
S7: just far harder these days?
S3: I think it does. Courage is required, of course, and
S3: Hawke and Keating had it in spades. What they also had, however,
S3: was a high, um, primary vote. Both they and the
S3: coalition had had high primary votes. So they knew where
S3: their support was to to a pretty large extent. And
S3: they worked on, on, on that. Since then there has
S3: been this fractured period, of course, that began when Rudd
S3: was rolled and Gillard and Abbott and Turnbull and Morrison
S3: all came in, and it was as if they were
S3: all gasping for air and trying to work out where
S3: they could go. And, and that has left an aftertaste,
S3: if you like, where courage is in relatively short supply
S3: when really big. Uh, the big vision thing, as Keating
S3: used to talk about it might, might be required.
S7: Sorry to interrupt you. Keating was known for his very
S7: sharp tongue in public, but also in private. And I've
S7: been told that you were on the end of some
S7: particularly sharp phone calls from Paul Keating.
S3: I quite like that, actually. Um, he came at you
S3: from the front. He didn't, uh, circle around and put
S3: little stories around or come at you from behind. If
S3: I'd written something in The Sydney Morning Herald, which you've
S3: got to recall was his hometown newspaper that he really
S3: disliked and and disagreed with, he would ring directly to
S3: my home in the morning and he would he would
S3: really go, you, you you knew that you'd you had
S3: been talked to when Paul Keating had been on the phone.
S3: But there was always a rhythm to it. He would
S3: use every bit of the vernacular that was available to
S3: him for some time. Then he'd sort of plateau, and
S3: then he would start coming down the other side, explaining
S3: himself and trying to talk policy and why why you
S3: were wrong and why he was right and so forth.
S3: Quite often you'd get a story. So I didn't mind that,
S3: and I certainly wasn't the only one. There were plenty
S3: of plenty of journalists who who got that treatment. He
S3: was very unusual in that he and the calls would
S3: go on for a very long time. My father would
S3: come and stay with us quite often in Canberra. And
S3: he actually believed that. Paul Keating rang me every morning
S3: for a while. It wasn't like that at all. It
S3: was just that when he was there, it happened to
S3: be coincidental. I'd got one of these calls.
S1: Obviously, Howard was the next prime minister after Keating, Tony,
S1: and he was a very, very different style of politician indeed.
S1: He was also an incredible politician and probably one of
S1: our best prime ministers. And he had none of the
S1: outward charm or the sort of emotion that you're talking
S1: about with Hawke and with Keating. But he did have
S1: this particular political magic that kept people coming back for more,
S1: and enabled him really to take the Australian population along
S1: with him for some very big decisions and reforms. What
S1: was that political magic that that Howard possessed?
S3: Well, I think he he stated it even before he
S3: became Prime Minister. He said the times will suit him.
S3: What he meant by that was that this, uh, very, uh,
S3: very hard period of conflict that, uh, Paul Keating had
S3: been in charge of and so forth, had got on
S3: people's nerves. So he actually said he wanted Australians to be, um,
S3: relaxed and comfortable. Yeah. Well, underneath that, of course, was, uh,
S3: was a lot of paddling going on. And he, he
S3: did have a, uh, a whole agenda at work. He
S3: had a, uh, an ability to sniff the breeze like
S3: very few other politicians I've ever seen. And I saw
S3: how he did that a bit. He carried out his
S3: own polls and personal polls. He would invite, say, a
S3: group of journalists around to the to the lodge and
S3: have a have a roast and and, uh, you know,
S3: some potatoes and a cup of tea. And, um, then
S3: he would stoke the fire and he would ask a
S3: question that didn't sound pointed, but you would discover later
S3: on was very important. I remember, for instance, one night
S3: we were there and he asked all of us and
S3: there were about, I don't know, 5 or 6 of us.
S3: Do you have personal private insurance? Right. Health insurance. And
S3: we all did as it turned out. And he said, well,
S3: you know, why wait, why do you why do you
S3: have it? And I think we, you know, we sort
S3: of stammered a bit and said, well, we could afford it.
S3: And it was probably a good idea and blah, blah, blah.
S3: Within a few weeks, he came out with this big
S3: policy to basically force people to consider taking private health insurance.
S3: He'd he'd been polling everyone he came across, I think, um,
S3: once again, before the, uh, Referendum on the Republic, which
S3: of course he was against. He came to a big
S3: corridor party in Parliament House. They were pretty roistering affairs,
S3: and he wandered around and asked everyone that I could
S3: see what. What's your. What's your point? What did you
S3: agree with? A with a Republican. The general answer was,
S3: oh yeah, we do. But it's not top of our
S3: priorities or top of mind. And he would mutter, yeah,
S3: not not top of mind, not top, top of mind.
S3: So he, he was, he was setting his own agendas
S3: and then trying them out on, on people without even
S3: those people knowing what he was on about. And then
S3: following through, um, he, he knew that Pauline Hanson was
S3: a threat, uh, particularly after 1998, when One Nation won
S3: 11 seats in the in the Queensland state election. And, uh,
S3: and from that moment on, immigration and particularly asylum seekers
S3: was became one of his really big policy issues because
S3: he knew that she would harness that. And of course,
S3: it ended up with the Tampa and the Pacific solution
S3: and all those sort of things.
S1: Yeah. Which ended up being quite controversial policies for Howard, but.
S3: Also fairly mildly.
S1: Yeah. But also ensured his ongoing popularity with a large
S1: sector of the electorate and have now come back to
S1: haunt us. And I want to ask you about that later.
S1: But just to move through time, I mean, you went
S1: on a lot of overseas trips with the prime ministers
S1: and perhaps ministers as well. What was it like? What's
S1: it like to observe those prime ministers, leaders up close
S1: and personal and sort of in an off campus environment?
S1: What do you learn in that environment that you don't
S1: see in Canberra?
S3: Well, you learnt quite a bit because particularly in the
S3: earlier days when we were flying around on the old
S3: 707 VIP plane, the Prime Minister of the day, and
S3: whether it be Bob Hawke or Paul Keating. And for
S3: a while, until, uh, um, John Howard got a plane
S3: that was too small to take, take, take journalists, they
S3: would they would wander down the back and have a
S3: bit of a chat and you could talk about anything
S3: because it really was off the record. We were we
S3: were in the sky, you know, and, uh, you got
S3: to know these people quite intimately, I think, um, in
S3: a way that you couldn't possibly around Parliament House. I
S3: remember during an election campaign, Kim Beazley, this was that
S3: famous election campaign that I was talking about after Tampa. And,
S3: and the Twin Towers came down.
S1: 2000 and was it 2000, 2001.
S7: 2001?
S3: Yeah, 2001 and Kim Beazley came down the back of
S3: the plane and all the journalists were there. And he
S3: he began by saying, you know, we're going to win
S3: this one. And then within a couple of minutes he
S3: was saying, you know, we we've we've done everything we can. Um,
S3: I don't know how this is going to go. And
S3: then he was slumped in a seat saying, you know,
S3: if we don't win, at least we gave it everything.
S3: And right in front of our eyes, we saw a
S3: politician who was running for the prime ministership or hoping
S3: to get there, talk himself out of it. Um, and
S3: that I think had a, had an effect on a
S3: lot of journalists following it. You sort of saw this
S3: vulnerability of, of Kim Beazley, a man of great intellect who, um,
S3: also had the ability, unlike a lot of them, to
S3: see both sides of a question. And, and therefore he wasn't,
S3: he wasn't, um, this sharp, sharp tool coming, coming at politics.
S3: He was a, he was a man who wanted to
S3: think about it. And unfortunately, he thought himself out of
S3: winning right in front of us.
S1: The very sort of character traits that made him, gave
S1: him his humanity, made him perhaps not the best politician.
S3: What.
S1: What who's the best prime minister? You think you've covered
S1: the strongest leader?
S3: Well, the two strongest leaders really were Bob Hawke and
S3: and John Howard and both of them. It could be
S3: seen in the great length of time they remain prime ministers.
S3: I'm not talking about agreeing with them or disagreeing with
S3: them on on policy or the way they went about it,
S3: but they were both very strong. Um, and at the end,
S3: of course, um, you could see that you could watch
S3: that strength eking away when, when, uh, Keating went at Hawke,
S3: and then when John Howard had outstayed his welcome, I think,
S3: and he sent out his, uh, his cabinet ministers to
S3: find out what people thought. And, and got Alexander Downer
S3: to report back about what they were thinking. And he
S3: did report back that they thought he should step aside. Well,
S3: he refused to step aside. He lost his seat. So
S3: there is there is that period where a prime minister
S3: can be seen as a very powerful, very strong prime minister, um,
S3: running the country the way he feels best. But in
S3: the end, there are tears.
S1: Yeah. In the end everything changes and all periods pass, right.
S1: Who is the worst Prime minister you covered?
S3: Well, that's a bit of a leading question. I, I think, um,
S3: I think Scott Morrison was, uh, perhaps the, the, the,
S3: the Prime Minister who you ended up not having all
S3: that much time for or I didn't. The sort of
S3: things he did, um, and where he'd come from were
S3: made him the sort of Prime minister who really wasn't
S3: suited to the job. I think he'd come from that
S3: period where he was, you know, running Border Force and
S3: all that sort of thing where he, he, he became
S3: a very secretive man and thought that was terrific because
S3: we'd ask him questions about asylum seekers. And he'd, he'd
S3: just say, well, that's an on, on water matter or
S3: operational matter, and we wouldn't talk about it. So when
S3: he became prime minister, I think a lot of people
S3: didn't quite trust him. And the way he got there
S3: when he did Turnbull in a few really, a few
S3: hours after he'd declared to the cameras that his only
S3: ambition was for his prime minister, Malcolm Turnbull. I mean,
S3: he he had a pretty tough time because of Covid and, uh,
S3: he didn't handle other things very well. For instance, the
S3: bushfires pretty, pretty much, uh, stripped him of reputation. The
S3: part where he was overseas in having a holiday whilst
S3: Australia burnt. And then he came back and said, well,
S3: you know, I don't hold a hose, mate. Those sort
S3: of things didn't resonate very well. And in the end,
S3: when he was discovered to have made himself a minister
S3: of five different portfolios secretly, he not only lost a
S3: lot of points with those who looked at him from
S3: the outside, but from the inside, his own ministers and
S3: his own colleagues. And I think in the end, people
S3: look back and go, you know, it wasn't a great period.
S1: Yeah. I mean, there was a running theme with Scott Morrison,
S1: wasn't there, where, um, you know, rightly or wrongly, the
S1: perception was that he, he had a, had a problem
S1: with taking accountability and he wouldn't take responsibility for his
S1: own actions and mistakes in taking the historical view. How
S1: do you rate Anthony Albanese as a prime minister?
S3: Um, as has been said previously about the French Revolution, too,
S3: too early to tell. Um but he, he, um he's
S3: already completed one term of course, and he's won another election.
S1: That's, that's an age by the by the standards of
S1: modern Australian politics.
S3: He's probably having a fair bit of fortune actually. Um
S3: because the opposition, the conservative opposition has essentially collapsed. Uh,
S3: one nation has come in to fill that vacuum, and
S3: it doesn't look as if he is likely to be, um,
S3: to be toppled at the next election, even though his, uh,
S3: ratings are way down. I mean, the, uh, I think
S3: the government's primary vote is somewhere around 28%. Well, it's
S3: not all that long ago that if you heard those figures,
S3: you would say, well, they're finished. He he's not. And
S3: he and he keeps battling on, I mean, yeah. Um,
S3: he has that, uh, uh, he appears cautious, but quite
S3: a bit does get done. And every now and again
S3: he allows that sort of tearaway young elbow to appear, um,
S3: to his, uh, deleterious sort of, uh, approach or outcome.
S3: I mean, you know, going on a podcast and talking
S3: about Kylie and melons and so forth just didn't work. It, uh, maybe,
S3: maybe these guys all want to be hawky and they can't.
S1: I know I'm jumping around a bit here, but I
S1: do want to ask about Julia Gillard. And that was
S1: a period when I was in Canberra too. We worked
S1: side by side and we had a lot of fun
S1: and a lot. It was an interesting time to be
S1: covering politics. It was a particularly volatile time. It was
S1: full of a lot of personal attacks and vitriol. Was
S1: that a sort of step change, you know, from your
S1: point of view, having come from sort of like the kinder,
S1: gentler years of Howard and Rudd and then step changing
S1: to Gillard minority government. Can you just reflect on that
S1: a bit for us?
S3: Yeah, look, it's a very conflicted time because of the
S3: way she came to be prime Minister. Getting rid of
S3: Rudd while he was still prime minister and not very
S3: far into his into his term, and then almost losing
S3: the next election and being saved by a couple of independents.
S3: So there were those around her who, number one, either
S3: didn't like her because of the turmoil that, uh, um,
S3: put her into the job in the first place. And
S3: others who were worried that she wouldn't, um, she wouldn't
S3: be able to last, but she did. And a lot
S3: of people don't realize. But she got more legislation through
S3: Parliament than virtually anybody else in that short period. She
S3: was prime minister, and she did get attacked in quite
S3: unfair ways. Um, she was the first female prime minister.
S3: And you know that stuff about Ditch the Witch and
S3: all the rest of it, um, was, was utterly, utterly appalling.
S3: And when she finally cracked, I suppose when Tony Abbott
S3: was getting stuck into her, calling her a misogynist or
S3: whatever for backing Peter Slipper. Um, the speaker who was
S3: had been sending pretty vile emails and she did that
S3: big moment.
S8: So doing, I say to the leader of the opposition,
S8: I will not be lectured about sexism and misogyny by
S8: this man. I will not, and the government will not
S8: be lectured about sexism and misogyny by this man. Not now,
S8: not ever.
S3: That raised her stakes, probably forever, with a pretty reasonable
S3: cohort of Australian voters. Others, of course, will never will
S3: never come to her side because, um, there is a,
S3: I think a pretty strong stream of sexism running through, uh,
S3: the harder edges of politics. And of course, she was
S3: undermined by Kevin Rudd all the way along to the
S3: point where she actually had to hand the prime ministership
S3: back to him, uh, at the very last minute. And
S3: of course, he couldn't save the save the ship either.
S3: So it was a, it was a conflicted period. I
S3: think she has come out of it that actually horrible period,
S3: I suppose, as a person who is highly respected because
S3: after she left the Prime Minister, she. She never looked
S3: back and and and complained.
S7: Tony has Pauline Hanson's research and surprised you. You covered
S7: her in her first period of popularity.
S3: I think it surprised everyone. The level of of of resurgence.
S3: I recall, as I mentioned, the 1998 surge when One
S3: Nation won 11 seats in the Parliament of of state,
S3: Parliament of Queensland. But you've got to remember later on
S3: that year, she she couldn't win her own seat. And
S3: the One Nation, uh, basically disintegrated with one one Senator.
S3: That was all for a long time. So this is
S3: a person who made a lot of noise for a
S3: lot of time. But once again, perhaps the times have
S3: suited her. There is a very strong feeling across country
S3: Australia that people outside the inner circles of the city
S3: and and so forth are being left out of the
S3: the equation. I know in my own territory I have
S3: a house in the country and I spent a lot
S3: of time down there. The roads are falling apart. We've
S3: lost our air services. There's only one train in the near.
S3: And people look at, say, Melbourne or the big cities
S3: and see billions of dollars being spent on infrastructure, and
S3: they feel left out. And they feel a lot of
S3: people clearly out there feel that, um, no one's speaking
S3: for them. And Pauline Hanson always has, people will say,
S3: and I would add, of course, that in country Australia,
S3: Sky TV is free to air and has been since 2018.
S3: And you go around the farms and so forth. I've
S3: got cousins and all. And and here in the corner is, uh,
S3: Sky TV sounding off against elitism and the major parties
S3: and how, how rotten, uh, is woke Australia and so
S3: forth and so forth. And that has, you know, it's
S3: all melded exactly the right time for, um, Pauline Hanson
S3: to fill that vacuum that I was talking about after,
S3: after Dutton when, uh, the coalition actually fell apart and
S3: then hasn't really put itself back together yet.
S1: Yeah. Tony, politics is so often about plotting and brawling and,
S1: you know, that's what we see from the outside, you know,
S1: all of that sort of conflict and the nasty stuff.
S1: But when you're covering politics, there are also moments of
S1: great emotional power when you realize that you're witnessing history
S1: and you're really up close to something very special. You
S1: would have seen many moments like that in your career.
S1: Do you want to talk us through 1 or 2
S1: of those?
S3: Yeah. Yeah, I have, um, and I should point out
S3: that a lot of politicians who arrive in Canberra arrive with,
S3: with the best of intentions, and they, they really believe
S3: they're going to, um, help society and change the nation
S3: and so forth. And they get rubbed pretty bare pretty quickly. Um,
S3: but talking about big moments, I suppose the one of
S3: the biggest was Kevin Rudd's apology to the Stolen Generations.
S6: For the pain, suffering and hurt of these stolen generations,
S6: their descendants and for their families left behind. We say sorry.
S6: To the mothers and the fathers, the brothers and the
S6: sisters for the breaking up of families and communities, we
S6: say sorry, and for the indignity and degradation thus inflicted
S6: on a proud people and a proud culture, we say sorry.
S3: That was something that had had been playing on Australia's
S3: conscience for a long time. Some people, of course, would
S3: disagree with that. But when Kevin Rudd stood up in
S3: Parliament and there were a lot of indigenous people there,
S3: there were a lot of people who had been stolen
S3: as as children and had suffered a great deal trying
S3: to put their lives back together. And when he stood
S3: up there and made his apology, we are sorry. And
S3: the the fluttering of handkerchiefs in the in the crowd,
S3: the tears, the silence was absolutely profound. I saw something
S3: similar when Julia Gillard apologised to another stolen generation, I
S3: suppose those who were taken from their mothers, their single
S3: mothers and adopted out or put in homes or whatever.
S3: And the same thing occurred there, that welling up of emotion. Yes.
S3: And you suddenly realised that these were people who had
S3: just wanted to have been heard and recognised. And here
S3: was a Prime Minister doing it. Rudd for the for
S3: the stolen indigenous generations. Guillard for. For others. Um, and
S3: they were very important moments. The Gillard one was unfortunate
S3: because in the background, as soon as it was over, uh,
S3: there was, there was more, you know, conflict politics going on.
S1: I remember that day. It was yeah, the best and
S1: the worst of politics. I mean, I got goosebumps just
S1: hearing you talk about those moments because yeah, I was there,
S1: you know, for the second one. And you realize that
S1: politics does have the power to change people's lives for
S1: the better, despite all of the nasty stuff that we
S1: sometimes see in the cynicism that we sometimes hold about
S1: our political process. Tony, is there anything else you want
S1: to leave us with? I mean, you you're sort of
S1: walking out of the press gallery, hopefully not for the
S1: last time, but you're taking a step back. I know
S1: that you have always treated your colleagues with so much
S1: kindness and respect and warmth, and you're a very generous colleague,
S1: and I know that you consider your position a very
S1: privileged one, because you love what you do and you
S1: never take it for granted.
S3: Yeah, I'm the luckiest bloke in the world. You know,
S3: I came from a small country district and a school.
S3: I've spoken about this before at a boarding school in
S3: the country. I looked across from the top floor dormitories
S3: at the Grampians and thought, I want to see what's
S3: beyond there. Well, journalism has allowed me to see what
S3: is beyond there, right around the world and across Australia and,
S3: and the people with whom I've worked um, are really family,
S3: you know, and I love these people and um, I'll
S3: miss them desperately. It's the pleasure of going to work
S3: either in the days of Canberra when I used to
S3: come into the press gallery all the time, or now
S3: nowadays in the in the newsroom of the age in Melbourne,
S3: um there are all these brilliant people, a lot of
S3: them young, uh, a lot of them. So, uh, full
S3: of ideas and full of emotion and, and passion and, uh, it,
S3: it just makes your heart sing to be able to
S3: do those sort of things.
S7: I would just add that, you know, the prime Minister
S7: and opposition leader often give these speeches in the House
S7: after Question time on milestones or anniversaries or for formalities,
S7: but they can often look as if they're going through
S7: the motions. But you could sense that both of them
S7: really meant what they said. The Prime Minister's speech in
S7: particular was quite thoughtful. There was some emotion in there,
S7: and the opposition leader spoke really nicely as well. And
S7: I've seen a bunch of ministers ask me questions about
S7: you this week. I've seen come in some come into
S7: our office to chat to you. So all very fitting
S7: to Mark.
S3: All very embarrassing.
S7: I know it's been embarrassing to you, but people, people
S7: want to express.
S3: That somebody had set this up and, you know, a
S3: bit like somebody reading your obituary before you're gone. But
S3: it was it was, of course, lovely. And my family
S3: and my kids and so forth will, will treasure those
S3: moments because they've got them on video. They knew what
S3: was going to happen, I didn't. Um, but yeah, it
S3: was pretty special. And a nice, uh, a nice end
S3: to this part of my career.
S7: You'll still be writing.
S3: I will. As a contributor for The Age and perhaps
S3: the Sydney Morning Herald.
S7: Very good.
S1: We can't wait to read what you do next Tony,
S1: and we will miss you. We will miss you having
S1: having you as a day to day colleague. It's been
S1: a pleasure to work with you. Thank you for being
S1: on the podcast and for sharing your harvesting those moments
S1: with us, and we'll hopefully see you again soon.
S3: Thanks very much, Jacqueline, and it was a pleasure working
S3: with you too, I must say.
S1: Yeah, it was fun. We had some fun.
S7: Thanks, Tony.
S1: You can read all of our political news on our website,
S1: ca.com.au or smh.com.au. Today's episode was produced by Kai Wong
S1: with help from Debbie Harrington. Our executive producer is Tammy Mills,
S1: and our podcasts are overseen by Lisa Muxworthy and Tom McKendrick.
S1: Before you go, follow Inside Politics and leave a review
S1: for us on Apple or Spotify. I'm Jacqueline Maley, thank
S1: you for listening.