S1: Well, I'm outside the Federal court for the Southern District
S1: of New York, where we've just concluded the first full
S1: day of the trial of Sean Combs. Today, we've heard
S1: the opening statements from both the prosecution and the defense,
S1: as well as testimony from.
S2: From the newsrooms of the Sydney Morning Herald and The Age.
S2: This is the morning edition. I'm Samantha Salinger Morris. It's Wednesday,
S2: May 14th. For years, Sean Diddy Combs was a music
S2: mogul unlike any other. Once described as a zeitgeist dominating
S2: colossus who helped hip hop become a global cultural force.
S2: But peppered throughout his years of living to extraordinary excess
S2: were allegations of violence and misconduct. He managed to escape
S2: much time in custody until September, when he became inmate
S2: 37452054 at a Brooklyn detention center after he was charged
S2: with federal crimes. Today, we speak to North America correspondent
S2: Michael Koziol, who's on the ground in New York City,
S2: where he has attended the first day of his trial
S2: and learned what the prosecution and defense plan on arguing
S2: in one of the biggest celebrity trials of the decade.
S2: And just a heads up, some of the content in
S2: this episode may be distressing to listeners. Okay, Michael, just
S2: to start, I was hoping you might be able to
S2: describe for us what the mood has been like both
S2: inside and outside of the courtroom in New York City,
S2: where Sean Diddy Combs has been sitting for, you know,
S2: as he faces these federal charges because you have been there.
S2: So walk us through this.
S1: Well, it's obviously a much anticipated case here in New York,
S1: one of the one of the most anticipated cases, I think,
S1: for for quite a while.
S3: Prosecutors are expected to paint combs as the head of
S3: a criminal organization who exploited his fame and fortune to
S3: sexually abuse women and men. Defense attorneys plan to counter
S3: by saying Combs was not acting illegally and all relationships
S3: were consensual.
S1: ABC it's the same courthouse as the Sam Bankman-Fried case
S1: a couple of years ago, and I think one of
S1: the most sort of, you know, watched cases since then.
S1: One of the most watched entertainment cases since Harvey Weinstein.
S1: The world's media are here. All the Australian journalists from
S1: across the US have, um, those who aren't already based
S1: in New York are in New York to cover this
S1: on Worth Street in downtown Manhattan, in front of the
S1: federal courthouse. So, uh, it was a big deal, and
S1: it was a long queue to get in, and, um,
S1: the overflow rooms themselves were packed. Let alone the the courtroom.
S1: So definitely big interest in the start of this blockbuster
S1: and lengthy trial. So he was dressed a sort of. Well,
S1: there was some disagreement as to whether it was light
S1: gray tan or oatmeal colored sweater, but yet you can
S1: picture that over a white button up shirt and beige pants. He,
S1: you know, look, he's, um, he's firmly in middle age now,
S1: so he's got the grey hair. He, you know, would
S1: put on these big, thick rimmed reading glasses from time
S1: to time to. Read some papers. And for a lot
S1: of the time during the testimony, he sort of would
S1: just sit. Um, with his hands clasped in his lap,
S1: sometimes with his legs crossed, watching, um, the person who was.
S1: Giving evidence or, ah, outlining the opening statements. So look,
S1: he was calm, you know, he seemed like he was
S1: in control. So he he was occasionally smiling and even,
S1: it seemed, joking at a point with his defence lawyers, but.
S1: You know, I think the fact that he was so
S1: keen not to appear in prison garb and sort of
S1: to appear in. More respectable clothing, you know, that he
S1: would think, perhaps befits a celebrity of his status. Um,
S1: I think probably goes to show that. Yes. You know,
S1: there is likely to be a sense of I'm a
S1: big deal. And, you know, I can't believe that this
S1: has happened to me.
S2: I mean, this obviously attests to really what a big
S2: deal how famous Diddy is and how renowned his music
S2: has been for so long. So just briefly, can you
S2: tell us how famous is he? Because we do know
S2: he had something of a startling rise. You know, he
S2: started on the fringes of the music business, and he
S2: really did reach global superstardom, right?
S4: I mean, he.
S1: Um, started a record label, Bad Boy Records, when he
S1: was very young, in his sort of early to mid
S1: 20s and, you know, went on to become this pretty
S1: massive figure in the rise of, of rap music, in
S1: pop music. Um, you know, that time in the 90s
S1: when pop artists were just starting to really kind of
S1: incorporate rap into mainstream recordings?
S5: Let's pretend for a second you don't know who I
S5: am and what I do. Let's just put it to
S5: the side. I can feel your heart beating.
S1: You know, and not just a rapper, but a producer
S1: and a music executive. Someone who kind of had his
S1: hands in the till in all aspects of the music
S1: industry and that that is, you know, why he became
S1: this sort of monumental figure.
S5: It seems like yesterday we used to rock the show.
S5: I laced the track. You locked the flow so far
S5: from hangin on the block for dough.
S1: And even though, you know, I think it's fair to
S1: say he's not at the height of his fame or
S1: powers in the music industry. It was interesting, you know,
S1: after court wrapped today, I was just speaking to a
S1: few young guys who were hanging outside court. They must
S1: have been in their, you know, early 20s tops, and
S1: they'd come down just to kind of have a look
S1: and check things out, maybe, you know, catch some people
S1: coming out of court. And I said to them, oh,
S1: you know, I'm surprised because, you know, you sort of
S1: look too young. You guys look kind of too young
S1: to have known him during his like, kind of, you know,
S1: it's like peak, but like.
S6: His music is still like. I feel like when I
S6: was in middle school, in high school, his music was
S6: like a big thing. And he's obviously managed a lot
S6: of artists. And even like, I know he managed Justin
S6: Bieber and all those younger guys that like.
S1: That was still very interested. That was still very much like, yeah,
S1: it's a big deal. So here in the US, it's
S1: still certainly has had that cultural cachet.
S2: Okay. And it's safe to say he is living in
S2: very different circumstances. We know that, you know, he used
S2: to have a life of personal chefs in enormous mansions
S2: and what's been described as a Gatsby esque appetite for spectacle,
S2: you know, parties with celebrities and that. And for the
S2: last eight months, he's been living in this Brooklyn detention center,
S2: which has drawn complaints over the years for being rife
S2: with mold, vermin and neglect. So let's talk about how
S2: he's ended up here. What has he been accused of?
S4: So he's been charged.
S1: By federal prosecutors with essentially racketeering and sex trafficking. Um,
S1: really the crux of the accusations. But what sort of
S1: sits behind that is this idea that, um, uh, he
S1: over the course of 20 years and prosecutors today, in
S1: their opening statements, talked very much at the outset of,
S1: you know, we will be running you through 20 years
S1: of alleged criminality here, where he is essentially accused of
S1: bringing women, you know, his girlfriends at the time into
S1: sort of sexually abusive and exploitative situations that typically took
S1: place in hotel rooms here in the US and internationally that,
S1: you know, he apparently referred to as freak offs or
S1: sometimes wild king nights or sometimes just a bit more
S1: innocuously hotel parties. And at these parties, these women would
S1: sort of be coerced, in prosecutor's terms, into having sex
S1: with male escorts. Diddy would be there in the room.
S1: He would sometimes participate, but usually not. He would often,
S1: you know, be pleasuring himself in the room. And he
S1: would often record these encounters on tape and their drugs
S1: were often involved, according to the prosecutors. You know, the
S1: women would be fed drugs, and then later these tapes
S1: would kind of be used against them to force them
S1: to stay with him and to stay silent about what
S1: had happened and where the charges come into play are
S1: the fact that the prosecutors allege that he essentially turned
S1: his music empire into a criminal enterprise to enable and
S1: to cover up this behavior. So, you know, the staff
S1: would be involved in setting up the hotel rooms with
S1: the right lighting and the right equipment and, you know,
S1: the right lubricants and that sort of thing. And that,
S1: you know, when people were crossed him, um, you know,
S1: for example, uh, you know, one of his girlfriends or
S1: lovers was hanging out with someone else and they went
S1: to track that person down. You know, it was his
S1: employees and his bodyguards and even chiefs of staff that
S1: he would call upon to do this sort of thing
S1: or to to cover up actions by offering bribes to people.
S1: So that's where the sort of racketeering and indeed the
S1: sex trafficking charges come into play. And in fact, those
S1: are the federal crimes that he's been charged with and
S1: he hasn't been charged with, say, assault or domestic violence.
S1: And in fact, the defense case today, in their opening statements,
S1: were perfectly happy to admit that he's behaved intolerably and
S1: that he has, you know, he is a domestic abuser,
S1: that he has hit his girlfriends. It's caught on tape.
S1: The jury saw it today. Um, but the defense case
S1: is essentially that, well, you know, these things were bad,
S1: but they do not amount to racketeering and sex trafficking. Um,
S1: and that the women who participated in these freak offs or,
S1: you know, hotel parties, these sexual encounters, whatever you want
S1: to call them, did so of their own free will.
S1: They did so in the context of a consensual relationship
S1: that may not have looked like the relationships that you
S1: and I might have. Um, but nonetheless, these were, you know,
S1: in the defense attorney's words, uh, capable, strong women who were,
S1: you know, um, making free choices.
S2: We'll be right.
S7: Back.
S2: Okay. So tell us who the main witnesses for the
S2: prosecution are, because we know that US federal prosecutors had
S2: planned to call on five women who were expected to testify.
S2: But then we saw some pretty dramatic headlines a couple
S2: of days ago when it was revealed that one of
S2: those key witnesses had gone missing, that federal prosecutors were
S2: unable to contact this woman, who was due to give
S2: crucial evidence about her alleged abuse by Diddy over a
S2: number of decades. So tell us who is actually going
S2: to be testifying on behalf of the prosecution?
S4: Well, the prosecution.
S1: In their opening today really said that their case would
S1: focus on evidence from two women. And those are Cassandra Ventura,
S1: who was Diddy's longtime girlfriend. Uh, they had a relationship
S1: over the span of 11 years she's referred to in
S1: court as Cassie. But we know her, her real identity.
S1: She's a R&B singer, dancer, actor and another woman known
S1: in court as Jane, whom Sean Combs met in 2020
S1: and began a relationship with. Uh, continued to have encounters
S1: with until as recently as, um, less than a year ago.
S1: We were told in court now there will, I believe,
S1: be other witnesses. Um, the prosecution talked briefly in their
S1: opening statements about a woman known as Mia Um, who
S1: was an employee. Um, and I think we'll be hearing
S1: from her, but they did focus today's outline of the
S1: case and indeed told the jury that their case would
S1: focus on evidence from those two women.
S2: And beyond what you've told us already, which is that
S2: the defense is going to claim that these were actually
S2: consensual situations between Diddy and the people who've made the
S2: allegations against him, that it might not look like what
S2: most people might perhaps want out of a relationship, but
S2: that it was consensual and that the prosecution is alleging that, no,
S2: this absolutely was not. Are there any other revelations that
S2: has come out of the first day of the trial?
S1: Well, look, a lot of it we were aware of already, um,
S1: and certainly the gist of it, but we did get
S1: a lot of detail and to hear it being told firsthand,
S1: in some cases from the first two witnesses who were
S1: called by the prosecution this afternoon. Does sort of change
S1: the way that you understand these things. So, for example, the, um,
S1: video footage, which I think a lot of people have
S1: followed the case up until now, you would have seen
S1: this video footage of Sean Combs and Cassie Ventura at
S1: an LA hotel in 2016. It was hotel surveillance footage of, uh,
S1: a really violent altercation where he is, uh, striking her
S1: and kicking her in the hotel corridor. This footage aired
S1: on CNN last year.
S8: It shows Combs in a towel chasing Cassie Ventura down
S8: a Los Angeles hotel hallway back in 2016. Ventura, which
S8: you'll see is grabbed by her neck and thrown to
S8: the floor and then kicked twice and then dragged. Now
S8: we're not going to show the entire video.
S1: And, you know, up until that point, he had denied
S1: that he had been violent towards her and abused her,
S1: and then of course, afterwards had to come clean and say,
S1: you know, yes, I did this. And, you know, my
S1: behavior was inexcusable. So we heard from a witness this
S1: afternoon who was the security guard at the hotel that
S1: day and attended to this altercation after receiving a phone
S1: call about a woman in distress. And his name is
S1: Israel Flores. He's now a police officer in LA. Um,
S1: and he told the court about attending to this scene,
S1: seeing Cassie Ventura sitting in the corner of the hotel corridor,
S1: looking terrified, huddled in the corner, I think were his
S1: exact words, and Sean Combs sitting in a chair, um,
S1: with what he said was a a devilish stare on
S1: his face. And this security guard told the court about,
S1: you know, first saying to them, well, you're going to
S1: have an argument. Let's take it back to the room, um,
S1: and sort of escorting them back to the room. Cassie Ventura,
S1: in his telling, then sort of indicated that she wanted
S1: to leave. Um, Sean Combs didn't want that to happen.
S1: They went back to the room. Cassie Ventura gathers her belongings.
S1: The security guard talks about standing in the doorway so
S1: that the door wouldn't close. He sort of watched what
S1: was going on in the room. And then Sean Combs,
S1: according to the security guard's evidence, comes out with a
S1: stack of cash. And Israel Perez, the security guard, says he,
S1: you know, obviously understood this to be an attempt at bribery.
S1: You know, forget about what you've seen. Don't tell anybody.
S1: And he says that he told Sean Combs, I don't
S1: want your money. And he said, he goes back downstairs,
S1: follows Cassie Ventura outside the lobby of the hotel into
S1: the valet section. It's la. Everyone's got a valet. And, uh, where,
S1: you know, he sort of suggested that you might want
S1: to go to the police. Um, but she ultimately decided to, uh,
S1: to leave, and she got into a black SUV. So
S1: that was the evidence that was was given today by
S1: the first prosecution witness. We also heard briefly, although we'll
S1: continue tomorrow from a second witness who was a former.
S1: I used to work on a male review and then
S1: he was paid by Cassie Ventura and it's well, it's
S1: alleged Sean Combs, um, to come and have sex with
S1: Cassie in one of these hotel room parties. And where
S1: we left off today was quite an interesting exchange, really, uh,
S1: very telling for what the defense is going to do,
S1: because the defense was cross-examining Daniel Phillip and cross-examining him
S1: in quite excruciating detail about the first time that he
S1: was called to have sex with Cassie Ventura. Uh, where
S1: he rocks up to the hotel. He immediately offers him cash,
S1: which he accepts. And then, um, they begin having sex,
S1: and he describes it as kind of, you know, she
S1: was the most beautiful woman I've ever seen. And in
S1: his words, it didn't last that long as a result
S1: of that. But. And that, you know, Sean Combs was
S1: apparently sitting in the corner, you know, immediately begins pleasuring
S1: himself once they start having sex and that once this
S1: was over, he testified that he left. But, uh, Cassie
S1: Ventura messaged him or called him within five minutes and
S1: asked him to come back to do it again. Um,
S1: she requested a picture of his genitals, and by all accounts. Well,
S1: I think what the defense is trying to portray here
S1: is that this was an encounter that she very much enjoyed.
S1: So that testimony, that cross-examination will continue tomorrow. But I
S1: think you could see the beginnings in this of what
S1: the defense is going to be doing, which is to
S1: portray all of these acts as something that the women
S1: often enjoyed and certainly participated in willingly and could have
S1: decided not to do at any time if they if
S1: they didn't want to do it anymore.
S2: And I wanted to ask you about the video that
S2: was played in the courtroom of Sean Combs assaulting Cassie Ventura.
S2: As you mentioned, it was aired on television last year.
S2: I'm just wondering, though, because you said it was sort
S2: of a pivotal moment, I guess, during the day in court.
S2: What was the response? I guess, from the people who
S2: were seeing that? Like, was it quite confronting, even though
S2: people had perhaps seen it before?
S1: Look, I think the most confronting thing and I'll be honest,
S1: from where I was, I couldn't see the faces of
S1: the jury members. So it's it's difficult to say with
S1: any certainty how they reacted to it. But throughout the video,
S1: throughout all the evidence that was given today, including that
S1: really excruciating detail about this sexual encounter that, uh, Sean
S1: Combs was witnessing and the video of him assaulting Cassie, uh,
S1: his mother was sitting in the second row of the gallery. Uh,
S1: his three of his daughters were sitting in the gallery,
S1: and I believe that, um, and I've seen it reported
S1: that they exited the courtroom, uh, at a couple of moments, um,
S1: during some of that testimony. And, I mean, you would
S1: have to imagine some of this stuff, uh, is, is, um,
S1: pretty grueling to sit through as a family member.
S2: And so, Michael, is it fair to say that this
S2: is perhaps a shock, I guess, in Sean Combs life,
S2: in the sense that he's now facing these very serious
S2: federal charges, and this comes after really, three decades when
S2: he has faced various allegations of serious misconduct. And he's
S2: been arrested several times, but never until this point spent
S2: significant time in custody. Right.
S1: Yeah. Look, he's he's had, as you say, decades of allegations,
S1: you know, ranging from serious misconduct to violence. Um, you know,
S1: been in and around the apparent beating of a rival
S1: music executive. Um, there was an occasion, uh, with, uh,
S1: an assault of a college football coach and gunshots fired
S1: in a nightclub. Um, now, some of those cases ended
S1: with the charges being dismissed. Um, or in fact, modified.
S1: There was another occasion, uh, in 2004, in which, uh,
S1: Kimora Lee Simmons, uh, who was the former wife of
S1: another hip hop mogul, Russell Simmons, uh, claimed in an
S1: interview that, uh, Sean Combs had once threatened to hit
S1: her while she was pregnant. So, look, a lot of
S1: these accusations and allegations have been swirling around him for
S1: a long time. And so, you know, look, perhaps, uh,
S1: perhaps he had an inkling that the chickens were going
S1: to come home to roost at some stage. But, you know, obviously,
S1: this is the first time, as you point out, that
S1: he's spent a long time in prison. And, you know,
S1: now he's facing charges that do carry, uh, a really
S1: long prison sentence as a penalty if the prosecution can
S1: make them stick in front of a jury.
S2: And, Michael, how long is this trial set to actually
S2: run for? And how much time could he actually face
S2: in jail if he's found guilty?
S1: So the judge told us today that he doesn't expect
S1: the trial will go past July 4th, obviously, Independence Day
S1: in the US, so that would give it about eight weeks.
S1: although of course there's always the possibility of it going longer.
S1: And that will give prosecutors time to lay out their
S1: case and the defense time to make their case. Um, and,
S1: you know, we can expect that to be done in
S1: great detail because both legal teams are enormous. If you're
S1: looking at the the benches today, um, and because the
S1: stakes are so high, because, um, you know, uh, Diddy,
S1: if convicted on these charges, could go to jail for
S1: I think it's about 15 years to a maximum of
S1: life in prison. These are really serious charges. And, you know,
S1: they are complicated charges as well. And I think the
S1: jury has sort of not heard at this stage, the
S1: sort of full extent of how those criminal charges work.
S1: They've been told what he has been charged with. Um,
S1: but the sort of complex nature of the boxes that
S1: have to be ticked to fulfill those criminal charges, like racketeering,
S1: will be explained in more detail to the jury at
S1: a later time.
S2: Well, we are so lucky that you're reporting from the
S2: ground there. So thank you so much, Michael, for your time.
S1: No problem.
S9: At all.
S2: This podcast contained details of sexual abuse and domestic violence.
S2: If you need support, call the National Helpline on 1800 737 732.
S2: Today's episode was produced by Josh Towers and Julia Katzel.
S2: Our executive producer is Tammy Mills. Tom McKendrick is our
S2: head of audio. To listen to our episodes as soon
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S2: Links are in the show. Notes. I'm Samantha Selinger. Morris.
S2: Thanks for listening.