S1: Another scandal involving an alleged sexual assault has erupted in
S1: the AFL. This time, a number of players from the
S1: Sydney Swans football team have been spoken to by police
S1: after an alleged incident occurred in the early hours of
S1: Monday morning. I'm Samantha Selinger Morris and you're listening to
S1: The Morning Edition from The Age and the Sydney Morning Herald. Today,
S1: The Age's chief AFL writer Jake Niall on what we
S1: know now. And just a note, this masthead is not
S1: suggesting the players are under investigation by police, just that
S1: they are assisting with their inquiries. Welcome, Jake, to the podcast.
S2: Oh thanks, Samantha.
S1: Now, Jake, we're recording this on Tuesday afternoon, so can
S1: you just tell us what you know so far about
S1: how this incident has unfolded?
S2: Well, the Sydney Swans played against Essendon on Sunday. Late
S2: late game. By the time I get back to you know,
S2: you leave the bus from the ground. You're looking at,
S2: you know, after 8:00. Some of the players have gone out,
S2: and there's a group of five players that have stayed
S2: behind as a result of an incident that, uh, police
S2: are investigating at the hotel room.
S3: Good afternoon. The Sydney Swans are today in turmoil, the
S3: club confirming several players are embroiled in an alleged incident
S3: as Victoria Police investigates reports of a sexual assault at
S3: a Melbourne hotel.
S2: Police swarmed the hotel room on Monday morning and they
S2: took CCTV and people in. The people in the hotel
S2: obviously have been spoken to.
S4: In the early hours of this morning. Police will allege
S4: this sexual assault case has occurred at the Pullman Hotel
S4: in Melbourne, which is where the Swans were staying. We
S4: had uniformed and plainclothes.
S5: Police go in and out of the Pullman Hotel yesterday.
S6: We're extremely shocked and disappointed that this has taken place
S6: and that the players have found themselves in this situation.
S6: Given it's a police matter right now, that is all
S6: that we can say.
S7: Yeah, obviously extremely disappointed with what's happened and understand the questions.
S7: And we'll update as we as we gather more information.
S2: We've named four of the players and two of them
S2: are star players in Isaac Heeney and, uh, Chad Warner. Uh,
S2: and there's also James Jordan and Riley Vice. The players
S2: have not been formally interviewed by the police. But of course,
S2: in an investigation of this type, Sam, the police have
S2: to look at have to get the information first from
S2: those making the allegations before they do formal interviews of
S2: record with players, either whether that's as there's an allegation
S2: against one of one or more of them or as witnesses.
S2: And as it stands now, um, the players, it's all
S2: but certain that they won't be playing on the weekend.
S2: Um and that there'll be some sort of um punitive
S2: action taken not because of what they've allegedly done or
S2: not done, but I haven't got to that stage yet
S2: in the process. The AFL doesn't step in to criminal investigations.
S2: It lets that take its course. But they can be
S2: suspended for getting themselves into that position by the club
S2: and the league.
S1: Okay. And you mentioned that police have spoken to five
S1: players of the Sydney Swans. We've named four of those players.
S1: Why at this point hasn't the fifth player been named?
S2: Well, the fifth player there's pushback from a representative of
S2: the of the fifth player to say that he wasn't
S2: involved now. Um I can't at this point answer that
S2: you know accurately what to say accurately with full, you know,
S2: with with the full facts of that. There's a lot
S2: of there's a lot of question marks over what is
S2: actually occurred. And there's obviously the interest in this as
S2: a story is it's one of the biggest stories you'd
S2: find in the AFL. Um, and it will have huge
S2: bearing on, you know, the final series on all sorts
S2: of things, the reputation of the Swans, the individual's careers.
S2: It's got a lot of potential fallouts. Then again, we
S2: we don't know enough about the incident, right. Except that
S2: the there's a there's a sexual assault allegation.
S1: And so who has actually been talking about the allegations
S1: since the reporting emerged on Monday? I mean, have we
S1: heard from the alleged victim? And what about the AFL
S1: and the club's leadership?
S2: Well, Matthew Pavelich, the club CEO, he he fronted a
S2: media conference yesterday, but he really just read a statement
S2: and didn't answer any questions. Uh, and then the coach,
S2: Dean Cox, and they both expressed disappointment was the one
S2: of the one of the words used that was Matthew Pavelich,
S2: the CEO is a former champion player at Fremantle. Um,
S2: and a, you know, a figure of renown in the
S2: game of, you know, an absolute great of the game. Uh,
S2: and Dean Cox, the coach, um, he, he, he would
S2: feel this very personally. My understanding from what I've been
S2: told is the swans are the words that were used were,
S2: are filthy with, with the players getting themselves into this position. They,
S2: of course, will be caught between defending their own values,
S2: their own reputations, their own brand, and at the same time, um,
S2: making sure the players are held accountable. But the players
S2: are valuable assets for the club. It's always a very
S2: tricky situation. And this is why the AFL will step
S2: in and the AFL's got to be involved. They're not
S2: talking directly to the players but they are dealing with
S2: the Swans officials. Tom Harley, who's a senior figure at
S2: uh at the AFL, he's basically the two I see.
S2: He was the club CEO for only what, a year ago? So, uh,
S2: you know, so he'll be he'll be doing he'll be
S2: he's involved in that. Um, and of course the club,
S2: the AFL CEO Andrew Dillon. I mean, the buck stops
S2: with him when it's something this serious. He was the
S2: former legal counsel of the AFL. He's a lawyer. He's
S2: right on top of it. And there's a number of
S2: other people. The integrity unit, the AFL have their own
S2: integrity unit to deal with matters, but they can't. The
S2: AFL can't get interfere with police processes. So this will
S2: play out through the police before the AFL, uh, deals
S2: fully with it. It would be would be my understanding
S2: of how it works. And that's over a lot of
S2: these cases that I've seen, regrettably. Samantha. Too many.
S1: And so what's happened to the players in this particular instance? Like,
S1: have they been stood down officially or suspended from the
S1: game while this investigation takes place?
S2: Well, they some of them didn't attend training, I gather,
S2: but um, I would be staggered. I think they won't
S2: play this weekend. They're just I just don't see that happening.
S2: And very likely they'll be uh, they'll be suspended by
S2: the club slash AFL. I think the AFL and the
S2: club will come to some sort of almost an agreement.
S2: Um they can be of course suspended under the rules.
S2: There's a, there's a range of AFL rules I won't
S2: bore the listeners with, but you know, bringing the game
S2: into disrepute, conduct unbecoming. There's all sorts of things. It's
S2: important though that whatever they get suspended with, it's not
S2: prejudicing a police matter. So those two processes are kept
S2: very separate.
S1: Well, I really wanted to ask you about this so-called,
S1: you know, bringing the game into disrepute because it's been
S1: reported that, you know, these five Sydney Swans players, that's
S1: what they're going to be charged with. You know, they'll
S1: miss several matches because they brought the game into disrepute.
S1: And are we to understand that that disrepute charge is
S1: about them being out drinking when normally that's not permitted?
S1: Or is it or is it about this allegation of
S1: sexual assault?
S2: Well, it can't be about the allegation of the sexual assault,
S2: because that has to be dealt with by the police.
S2: And you can't interfere with the laws of the land.
S2: The laws of the land come first. It's one of
S2: those situations where they have to take action, but at
S2: the same time, they can't prejudice, right? What's what's going
S2: to happen in the future and that the timelines just
S2: probably don't match up at all. I mean, typically I'm
S2: not a legal or police expert, but these things take
S2: a lot longer than the what the season would be,
S2: you would say. I mean, they don't get necessarily resolved
S2: in in months, let alone weeks. So I think you'll
S2: see a punishment. Uh, they'll get a, you know, let's
S2: say two weeks and then it'll probably have to be uniform.
S2: This is my view of it. It'll probably have to
S2: be a uniform punishment because if it's not uniform, Sam,
S2: then it's it's starting to err on the side of
S2: which player is culpable. And that's getting into where the
S2: criminal matter lies. Does that make sense?
S1: It does make sense. And I do want to now
S1: ask you a question more broadly about, I guess, the
S1: AFL versus the NRL when it comes to handling allegations
S1: like this, because your colleague, age sports reporter Peter Ryan,
S1: has argued that there's a big question that the AFL
S1: needs to address now. And that is, of course, whether
S1: it needs a no fault stand down policy for the
S1: code for its players. Obviously, this is something the NRL
S1: introduced after a string of allegations were made against its players.
S1: So can you just talk us through this issue? What
S1: does the AFL have in place for instances when players
S1: are accused of a crime? And of course, we have
S1: to reiterate these five players that we've spoken about. They
S1: haven't been accused of a crime yet, but what does
S1: the AFL have in place?
S2: Well, the AFL, the AFL doesn't have what the NRL has.
S2: The the NRL has a stand down policy Which is
S2: only triggered above for, uh, above a certain thresholds for crime.
S2: The AFL does not have that policy. They have a
S2: case by case basis. Uh, there was a case last
S2: year where a Geelong player, Geelong Football Club, uh, Tanner Bruin, um,
S2: he was unnamed. He was on this leave of absence.
S2: He was subject to a suppression order. People could see
S2: he wasn't playing. It was never mentioned why he wasn't playing.
S2: He was, um, essentially stood down by or um, by
S2: the game. And he was not playing in that period
S2: until he was cleared. He was actually cleared of the
S2: charge eventually. And um, but everyone of course discovered that
S2: it was people could work out what was going on.
S8: And in more breaking news, rape charges against Geelong player
S8: Tanner Bruin have been sensationally dropped. The AFL midfielder and
S8: his friend Patrick Synnott, were charged with rape after being
S8: accused of sexually assaulting a woman.
S2: I guess the bottom line is the AFL follows what the.
S2: It doesn't jump in on on it to the degree
S2: that the NRL does, and it's quite a bit of
S2: criticism for not having a stand down policy. Um, it's
S2: an interesting debate because what happens if the player, uh,
S2: is cleared and it takes three years that conceivably can happen.
S2: So it's an interesting discussion. But the AFL has chosen
S2: as an organisation Sam. They're an outfit that likes to
S2: maintain flexibility. I've always felt I've always wanted to be
S2: able to dispense their own forms of justice. I'm not
S2: going to call them arbitrary, but and say they make
S2: it up as they go along. But they have a
S2: they have a tendency to be very pragmatic about outcomes
S2: rather than pure.
S1: And just to wrap up, Jake, I wanted to ask
S1: you about one broad question because there's already some frustration
S1: out there, including from AFL player Kate McCarthy, that some
S1: other reporting has focused on the impact on Sydney's finals
S1: chances and not on the alleged victim or the sexual
S1: assault allegations. So what do you make of that?
S2: Yeah, I think Kate makes a valid point. I made
S2: that point on channel nine this morning that the ramifications
S2: for the Swans finals is really a secondary point. You've
S2: got to consider the alleged victim and you've got to consider, um,
S2: the the the what this is as an incident for
S2: people as opposed to a football club. And I think
S2: sometimes that can be lost. But of course, the reason
S2: everyone's getting publicity here and everyone's interested in it is
S2: because they're football stars. And that's um, that's a part
S2: of the celebrity culture that sport, uh, embraces for better
S2: or worse.
S1: Well, thank you so much, Jake, for your time.
S2: Thanks, Sam.
S1: Today's episode was produced by Tammy Mills, and our podcasts
S1: are overseen by Lisa Muxworthy and Tom McKendrick. If you
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