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Speaker 1: Nine podcasts. In this episode, a senior public health advisor

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Speaker 1: is questioned about her communication with the accused killer as

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Speaker 1: the health department tried to find the source of the

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Speaker 1: death cap mushrooms, and we hear more from the digital

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Speaker 1: forensics officer.

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Speaker 2: Victoria's mushroom mystery, the mushroom lunch that claimed three lives.

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Speaker 3: An Australian family's meal is now the center of a

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Speaker 3: homicide investigation.

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Speaker 4: For bizarre tragedy now grabbing global headlines.

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Speaker 2: Aaron Patterson's alleged victims died after eating a family lunch

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Speaker 2: she'd serve them at her home.

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Speaker 1: I cannot think of another investigation that has generated this

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Speaker 1: level of media and public interest. Four of the guests

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Speaker 1: of that lunch were much loved members of this church.

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Speaker 1: Only one will ever return.

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Speaker 5: People are feeling very heavy with having lost such wonderful people.

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Speaker 1: Today, Aaron Pattison remained here inside her home. She's continued

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Speaker 1: to plead her innocence in a court room in Country Victoria,

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Speaker 1: Aaron Patterson is on trial accused of using death cat

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Speaker 1: mushrooms to kill. She's pleaded not guilty to murdering three

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Speaker 1: of her former in laws and attempting to kill a

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Speaker 1: fourth the town's church pastor. It's up to the jurors

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Speaker 1: to decide what happened when Pattison's loved ones sat down

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Speaker 1: to eat. The fifth week of this trial has begun

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Speaker 1: in Morewell and there's been quite a few more witnesses

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Speaker 1: giving evidence. But before we get to that, we want

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Speaker 1: to firstly, and this was the same order that the

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Speaker 1: jury saw. All of this is come back to Sharman

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Speaker 1: Fox Henry.

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Speaker 6: Yes.

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Speaker 1: Now, if people have listened to our previous episodes, they

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Speaker 1: might remember he's a senior digital forensics officer within attached

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Speaker 1: to Victoria Police and the cyber Crime Squad. Now he's

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Speaker 1: previously given his evidence in chief. He has returned on

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Speaker 1: various days and there's been different witnesses in between his evidence.

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Speaker 1: But for the start of the fifth week he was

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Speaker 1: back on the stand to be cross examined by Colin Mandy,

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Speaker 1: Aaron Patterson's barrister.

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Speaker 2: Into court in a slightly oversized suit. He has quite

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Speaker 2: a significant mustache and some big black glasses on his

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Speaker 2: head and he made his way from the door which

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Speaker 2: is on the right hand side, all the way over

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Speaker 2: to the witness box on the left. And this was

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Speaker 2: one in a list of days that he'd appeared in court.

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Speaker 2: But during the evidence that we heard today, Colin Mandy

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Speaker 2: sc was questioning fox Henry about his qualifications. Penny. He

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Speaker 2: was asked a little bit about what he does now,

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Speaker 2: but what he was doing back at the time of

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Speaker 2: this investigation. So it was August twenty twenty three that

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Speaker 2: he was working as a digital forensics officer when he

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Speaker 2: was asked by members of the homicide squad to take

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Speaker 2: copies of what was found on these electronic devices and

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Speaker 2: take that copy and give that over to Victoria Police.

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Speaker 2: But now he works as a senior digital forensic officer

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Speaker 2: in the Cyber Crime Squad. It was explained to the

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Speaker 2: jury that he's since undergone a lot of extra training.

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Speaker 2: He's done a lot of other courses and things like that.

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Speaker 2: Butly Colin Mandy's questioning was was trying to establish what

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Speaker 2: qualifications he had at that time, and the way that

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Speaker 2: Sharman fox Henry explained it was a lot of his

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Speaker 2: training on the different systems that Victoria Police use at

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Speaker 2: the time was peer based. He learned a lot of

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Speaker 2: it from his colleagues. Well, he may not have undergone

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Speaker 2: specific training with these specific companies, it was peer based

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Speaker 2: and he essentially had learned what to do from his colleagues.

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Speaker 1: And he's spoken through different parts of his evidence that

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Speaker 1: he sort of had a qualification in sound initially and

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Speaker 1: he'd then worked in audio visual and that was with

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Speaker 1: Victoria Police as well. So while the court was told

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Speaker 1: in this part of his cross examination and his re

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Speaker 1: examination that he sort of started with the particular role

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Speaker 1: with the cyber Crime Squad in sort of the June

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Speaker 1: of twenty twenty three, so a couple of months before

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Speaker 1: the August, that he had been working in a different,

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Speaker 1: slightly different department, but doing some things that were still

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Speaker 1: within that sort of information technology space. And he was

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Speaker 1: taken through a number of different parts of his evidence

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Speaker 1: and asked a lot of different questions by Colin Mandy

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Speaker 1: sc and as part of one of them early on

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Speaker 1: where he was being asked again about his training and

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Speaker 1: who told him how and what to do and how

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Speaker 1: is he being instructed, he was asked about when it

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Speaker 1: came specifically to the computer that listeners will have heard

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Speaker 1: about before that he extracted and he's given evidence that

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Speaker 1: he extracted the data from for police and investigators to

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Speaker 1: then go through how he sort of went about doing that,

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Speaker 1: And there's a lot of different programs that are mentioned

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Speaker 1: in this, but there was a specific question put to

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Speaker 1: him by mister Mandy that essentially came to the answer

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Speaker 1: of that he'd selected something that said select all as

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Speaker 1: part of downloading this information.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, he said that copying a device or the hard

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Speaker 2: drive or hard drives of a device. We know in

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Speaker 2: this case with his computer there was a number of

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Speaker 2: hard drives on it, he said, was a plug in

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Speaker 2: and press going process. So while these questions were being

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Speaker 2: sent his way trying to figure out exactly what his

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Speaker 2: qualifications are and how you actually do things, he was saying, well, no,

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Speaker 2: these are the words that he was using was his

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Speaker 2: plug in, pressco process, and that was how he would

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Speaker 2: perform his job and transfer the material accurately.

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Speaker 1: Across so that it could then be further looked at

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Speaker 1: by investigators, and then the investigators can then tag that

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Speaker 1: with different evidence tags we heard today and Fox Henry

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Speaker 1: was asked, well, did you put those tags on yourself,

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Speaker 1: and he said no, there is these tags that the

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Speaker 1: police can put on themselves.

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Speaker 2: And there was something like two million artifacts or files

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Speaker 2: that were downloaded off this particular PC. But fox Henry

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Speaker 2: explained that it was only sixty odd different files that

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Speaker 2: essentially went to Victoria Police for them to have a

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Speaker 2: further look at.

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Speaker 1: And he's previously explained in his evidence using this word artifacts,

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Speaker 1: not perhaps in the way that people might commonly think

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Speaker 1: of that word, but artifacts sort of being types of

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Speaker 1: data and URLs and different things that can be looked

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Speaker 1: at singularly or individually from these devices. Now we've heard

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Speaker 1: about a number of other devices through mister fox Henry's evidence,

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Speaker 1: and two of those are a tablet that police say

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Speaker 1: was sees from Aaron Patterson's home, and the other is

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Speaker 1: a phone that's been referred to it's a Samsung mobile

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Speaker 1: phone as Phone B And previously the prosecutor has given

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Speaker 1: evidence that the court will hear some evidence that that

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Speaker 1: handset was given to police by the accused woman by

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Speaker 1: Aaron Patterson. Now, going back to those two devices, neither

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Speaker 1: of those were examined by this particular witness by fox Henry.

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Speaker 1: He's told the court they're examined by another member sort

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Speaker 1: of of the team. But he was asked quite a

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Speaker 1: lot of questions about these by mister Mandy, and one

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Speaker 1: of those the tablet and the photos that were contained

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Speaker 1: on the tablet. He was asked basically, could was there

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Speaker 1: any way of knowing exactly what device had taken a photo,

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Speaker 1: if it was a phone, how it had ended up

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Speaker 1: on something, or could they potentially have been sent to

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Speaker 1: a device and ended up on a device from someone

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Speaker 1: downloading a picture from the Internet or from a Facebook message.

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Speaker 2: At this point, Penny that I actually missed hearing a

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Speaker 2: little bit of Fox Henry's evidence because something had just

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Speaker 2: happened after the mid morning break, and we were all

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Speaker 2: a little bit distracted, I think in the court room

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Speaker 2: for a little bit of time. We know that the

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Speaker 2: mid morning break usually happens about eleven thirty am, about

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Speaker 2: a fifteen minute break.

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Speaker 1: And that's given by the judge and it happens in

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Speaker 1: most trials as well. He's set this out with the

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Speaker 1: jury from the start that they get a break in

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Speaker 1: the morning and in the afternoon, sometimes more because they're

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Speaker 1: listening to so much information so that they can just

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Speaker 1: have a moment sort of a fifteen minutes or so,

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Speaker 1: like you said, and then they can come back in

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Speaker 1: refreshed and keep listening for another hour or so.

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Speaker 2: But just as the jury sat back down and Fox

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Speaker 2: Henry went to take his position in the witness box.

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Speaker 2: There was a gentleman in the back row, a protester

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Speaker 2: that stood up. He had a yellow T shirt on

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Speaker 2: with writing on it, and he fixed his gaze on

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Speaker 2: the judge and said, your honor or judge, accusing him

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Speaker 2: of covering up murders and a like. And we couldn't

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Speaker 2: hear exactly all the words that he was saying, but

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Speaker 2: this was set in front of jury Penny and this

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Speaker 2: gentleman he also had a blazer on, like a suit

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Speaker 2: jacket over the top of this yellow shirt, and he

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Speaker 2: was sitting in the back row next to five or

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Speaker 2: six different members of the press. But this is also

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Speaker 2: less than five meters away from the accused woman herself. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: but very very quickly, this didn't last very long. The

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Speaker 2: tip staff and a police officer quickly escorted this man

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Speaker 2: from the room, and the judge said to the bar table,

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Speaker 2: all right, let's just continue.

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Speaker 1: And it did really continue quite rapidly after that, this

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Speaker 1: evidence mister fox Henry sort of continuing what he'd been

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Speaker 1: saying and what he spoke about with Colin Mandy. He

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Speaker 1: sort of said, yes, well, there isn't an exact way

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Speaker 1: necessarily to know you could have downloaded something from a

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Speaker 1: chat or something if you've got if you were already

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Speaker 1: viewing it through the app Google Photos, which is already

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Speaker 1: spoken about through part of his evidence. So that was

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Speaker 1: mentioned to him and he agreed with the defense there.

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Speaker 1: But then there was this other device, Phone B was

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Speaker 1: brought up again too, and mister Mandy asked him a

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Speaker 1: number of dis frenk questions regarding how do you know

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Speaker 1: exactly how a time and date and those settings are

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Speaker 1: set on a particular phone. He's spoken about previously in

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Speaker 1: his evidence that this phone, when he looked at the

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Speaker 1: data that had been extracted and when he was explaining

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Speaker 1: it to the jury, that there were four times that

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Speaker 1: this phone has been factory reset, And he explained through

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Speaker 1: his evidence during this cross examination that basically a factory

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Speaker 1: reset removes all of the details except perhaps maybe some

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Speaker 1: security details, maybe some sort of serial numbers, and it's

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Speaker 1: largely unable to be recovered, and that when there was

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Speaker 1: this evidence being shown to the jury that all of

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Speaker 1: these resets, according to the data, were in twenty twenty three,

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Speaker 1: one sort of in February of twenty twenty three one,

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Speaker 1: early August, sort of a few days prior to the

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Speaker 1: next two factory resets, and that then the two factory

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Speaker 1: resets that followed on the fifth and the sixth of August.

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Speaker 1: It was sort of being asked by Colin Mandy, well,

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Speaker 1: if there was a factory reset, especially not very long ago,

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Speaker 1: how would that affect the data for the next lots

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Speaker 1: of factory resets. So there was lots of questions about this,

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Speaker 1: and the witness basically said, well, yes, there's no way

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Speaker 1: that you can fully know exactly if that time is

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Speaker 1: in or out. If it's been slightly altered, then potentially

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Speaker 1: that could mean that the data you're getting could be

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Speaker 1: slightly off. It's sort of hard to say when there

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Speaker 1: has been that many factory resets on the phone.

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Speaker 2: But when he was referring to the photographs on the

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Speaker 2: tablet for example, and that time and date was also

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Speaker 2: brought up again, the witness maintained that Windows ten that

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Speaker 2: was being used at the time on the PC saves

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Speaker 2: its own time. It's got like its own server or

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Speaker 2: database that the time is linked in with. It's not

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Speaker 2: up to the user, for example, or some other means

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Speaker 2: to change the time so there was lots of questions

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Speaker 2: in the evidence today for this particular witness about the

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Speaker 2: times and dates and how we ensure things are what

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Speaker 2: they say that they are.

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Speaker 1: And he also mentioned as part of his evidence that

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Speaker 1: when they're making these copies, there's a copy of the

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Speaker 1: data that's made that it's essentially unwritable, it's uneditable, so

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Speaker 1: that whoever's coming in and examining that can't go adding

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Speaker 1: or changing things. It exists as it was taken off

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Speaker 1: that device.

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Speaker 4: That's right now.

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Speaker 1: Moving on to the next witness that the jury has

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Speaker 1: heard from now, this was a forensic pathologist, doctor Brian Bier,

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Speaker 1: and he gave evidence about the autopsies that were conducted

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Speaker 1: on the three lunch guests who passed away. And the

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Speaker 1: first autopsy that he was talking about was Heather Wilkinson.

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Speaker 1: And it wasn't actually himself who conducted that autopsy. It

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Speaker 1: was a colleague, he said, but that he has a

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Speaker 1: more senior role and he was overseeing that particular procedure.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right, doctor Brian Bier. He's worked at the

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Speaker 2: Victorian Institute of Forensic Medicine for a number of years now,

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Speaker 2: but even longer as a forensic pathologist. Then his evidence

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Speaker 2: really got underway. We know he either conducted or was

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Speaker 2: overseeing the autopsies of the three lunch guests who passed away,

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Speaker 2: and he was explaining the dates and time that they

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Speaker 2: arrived and then the process to really have a look

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Speaker 2: at not only what was going on in their body

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Speaker 2: at the time of death, but whether or not they

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Speaker 2: had any pre existing health conditions that could have impacted

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Speaker 2: the medical treatment that occurred.

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Speaker 1: He concluded essentially for all of them that there was

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Speaker 1: this extensive neurosis of the liver which was very consistent

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Speaker 1: with amanita poisoning or toxic mushroom poisoning. Now, there's been

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Speaker 1: different parts of evidence given by different witnesses at medical

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Speaker 1: levels about making these diagnoses, but it was in the

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Speaker 1: bodies of the two female lunch guests. There wasn't any

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Speaker 1: of this particular toxin that was able to be found

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Speaker 1: from a death cat mushroom, but there was some of

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Speaker 1: that toxin found in the results from Donald Patterson.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, the way he explained it, Penny was he told

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Speaker 2: the jury that all three had acute liver failure and

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Speaker 2: multiple organ failure that was consistent with someone who had

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Speaker 2: eaten deathcat mushrooms and while Donald patterson he remains were

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Speaker 2: the only ones that tested positive to Amanita toxin or

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Speaker 2: death cat mushroom poisoning. Both sisters, he said, had organ

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Speaker 2: damage that were really consistent with the same It was

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Speaker 2: a urine test that had been taken from Don Patterson

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Speaker 2: while he was still in hospital that was tested and

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Speaker 2: that's where the positive result came for deathcat mushrooms. The

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Speaker 2: pathologist explained that when all three arrived at his facility,

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Speaker 2: police had asked for immediate autopsies to be conducted on

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Speaker 2: the bodies, and he was told that it was believed

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Speaker 2: that all three had eaten deathcat mushrooms as well.

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Speaker 1: And there was one part of his evidence that he

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Speaker 1: answered a few more questions on regarding Gail Patterson and

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Speaker 1: any pre existing conditions. He spoke as well about Don

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Speaker 1: Patterson's heart and that it was a little more enlarged

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Speaker 1: and heavier than you would expect of someone sort of

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Speaker 1: for his description at that time, and maybe that he

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Speaker 1: did have a sort of a high blood pressure of

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Speaker 1: hypertension at the time. But he noted in his evidence, well,

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Speaker 1: there's probably a lot of people even in this room

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Speaker 1: who were living with that condition and that he did

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Speaker 1: believe that there was definitely this amanita poisoning as well.

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Speaker 1: But he also noted with all of these particular autopsies,

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Speaker 1: they also looked at all of the medical history that

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Speaker 1: had come from all of the different hospitals, yes, local

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Speaker 1: hospitals standing on the Austin and various other notes too.

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Speaker 1: But he spoke a bit more about what he found

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Speaker 1: around Gail Patterson and her health.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so the first autopsy that was taken place was

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Speaker 2: on Heather Wilkinson. She was sixty six at the time

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Speaker 2: and she died on the fourth of August twenty twenty three,

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Speaker 2: and he said he was unable to find any existing

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Speaker 2: medical conditions, but noted that she did appear to have

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Speaker 2: been a fairly healthy lady at the time. She said there,

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Speaker 2: he said that there was a very extensive necrosis of

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Speaker 2: the liver in her case, and of all of her

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Speaker 2: liver cells had died. And in addition to that, he

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Speaker 2: said the small and large bow, well the lining of

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Speaker 2: it was also necrotics. So his explanation was quote that

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Speaker 2: the cells were dead. Beier said that Wilkinson's sister, Gail Patterson,

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Speaker 2: who was seventy at the time also died from acute

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Speaker 2: liver failure and multiple organ failure. Was the second autopsy

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Speaker 2: that was conducted, and then the third autopsy, he said,

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Speaker 2: was conducted on Don Patterson, who was seventy at the time,

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Speaker 2: three days after his death.

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Speaker 1: Let's hear a little bit more about what doctor Brian

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Speaker 1: Beier said in his evidence. It's not their real voices.

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Speaker 5: Did Gail Patterson suffer from any serious pre existing health

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Speaker 5: conditions that you have been able to gather from reading

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Speaker 5: her medical records and performing the autopsy on her body.

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Speaker 7: I'll just qualify by saying there was no serious issues

308
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Speaker 7: just prior to her death. Having said that, in twenty twenty,

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Speaker 7: she had an episode of Herpes simplex type one encephalitis,

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Speaker 7: which she presented with basically changes of fever and headaches

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Speaker 7: in essence, just issues with understanding and expressing herself understanding

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Speaker 7: other people anyway. That was from all accounts, diagnosed fairly quickly.

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Speaker 7: She had a CSF sample taken and that confirmed that

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Speaker 7: this was due to the Herpes simplex type one, and

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Speaker 7: also a subsequent CT and MRI scans showed changes which

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Speaker 7: were very consistent with that as well. She was given

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Speaker 7: antibiotic creme and appears to have recovered quite well from that.

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Speaker 7: I think early in January of twenty twenty one. There's possibility,

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Speaker 7: some question that there could be a reoccurrence, but I

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Speaker 7: think that was not confirmed. And my understanding from reading

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Speaker 7: the notes that she made quite a good recovery with

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Speaker 7: just some slight issues, particularly with her ability to express

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Speaker 7: and understand various things.

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Speaker 5: Did that in any way contribute to her death.

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Speaker 7: No.

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Speaker 2: At this point, Penny Aaron Patterson could be seen crying

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Speaker 2: in the dock. There was tears in her eyes and

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Speaker 2: she was looking up at times as be confirmed his

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Speaker 2: autopsy results.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and this was sort of a part of the

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Speaker 1: evidence that the jury has already heard in this fifth

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Speaker 1: week of the trial, but there was quite a bit

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Speaker 1: more evidence to come from another witness. They've been told

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Speaker 1: that that is a Department of Health official, Sally Anne Atkinson,

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Speaker 1: will come back after this with some of her evidence

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Speaker 1: and what she could recall to the jury and told

337
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Speaker 1: them was her memory of her communications with Aaron Patterson. Now,

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Speaker 1: Sally Anne Atkinson told the jury that she was in

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Speaker 1: a senior public health sort of official role within Victoria's

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Speaker 1: Department of Health. At the time that the fatal lunch

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Speaker 1: took place back at the end of July twenty twenty three,

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Speaker 1: and subsequently she was involved over the following days and

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Speaker 1: weeks in regards to particularly trying to find the source

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Speaker 1: of what had made these people so unwell.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, she explained to the jury that she was working

346
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Speaker 2: as part of this gashtro illness related team, and it's

347
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Speaker 2: a team which oversaw illnesses such as typhoid and salmonella

348
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Speaker 2: and these types of things. And she said that's when

349
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Speaker 2: she received a notification about a potential outbreak of death

350
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Speaker 2: cap mushroom poisoning. It was an alert from a doctor,

351
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Speaker 2: she explained to doctor Connor. It was about two thirty

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Speaker 2: three pm on the thirty first of July twenty twenty three.

353
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Speaker 2: She said the doctor believed that there'd been an outbreak,

354
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Speaker 2: which is what she classified as anything involving more than

355
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Speaker 2: two people that may have occurred at a family luncheon.

356
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Speaker 1: Yeah. So, she said, the way that she initially got

357
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Speaker 1: this information was there's sort of a number that people

358
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Speaker 1: can call, and she said through her evidence that they

359
00:18:14,440 --> 00:18:16,880
Speaker 1: would be notified the team that she worked in by

360
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Speaker 1: either council workers perhaps members of the public, doctors, other

361
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Speaker 1: medical staff about any kind of food or gastro intestinal

362
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Speaker 1: related outbreak and that you know that could include then

363
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Speaker 1: trying to stop a product of self that had someone

364
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Speaker 1: ella in it getting out and trying to sort of

365
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Speaker 1: really get on top of any outbreaks in the community,

366
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Speaker 1: and that an outbreak. As you said, anything over two people,

367
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Speaker 1: they considered that an outbreak. But she said that this

368
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Speaker 1: message came from doctor Connor McDermott, a doctor at the

369
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Speaker 1: Austin Hospital, and that it had come initially as sort

370
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Speaker 1: of a phone message, a voicemail, and it was very

371
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Speaker 1: therefore short and.

372
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Speaker 2: Brief, but it adverted to an email, yeah, and it.

373
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Speaker 1: Had come through this email system and into her inbox,

374
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Speaker 1: and that she had that little bit of information. She

375
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Speaker 1: thought that they were family members and that there might

376
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Speaker 1: have been some sort of luncheon. But from there she

377
00:19:02,040 --> 00:19:05,440
Speaker 1: spoke about the different communications she had with Aaron Patterson

378
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Speaker 1: and Jane Warren from the prosecution was taking her through

379
00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:10,560
Speaker 1: all of these different points, and we'll take you through

380
00:19:10,600 --> 00:19:14,320
Speaker 1: the same way. The jury heard this chronological sequence of

381
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Speaker 1: evidence that Sally Ann Atkinson was giving in relation to

382
00:19:18,480 --> 00:19:21,639
Speaker 1: all of the phone conversations. Text conversations that she was

383
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Speaker 1: having at the time as she was sort of being

384
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Speaker 1: prompted and questioned by Jane Warren.

385
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Speaker 2: Initially, she said she reached out to Simon Patterson and

386
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Speaker 2: the next of kin for those that were in hospital,

387
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Speaker 2: and initially she said, Simon didn't really want to speak

388
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Speaker 2: to her, which wasn't an uncommon thing, so instead that

389
00:19:38,680 --> 00:19:40,960
Speaker 2: she sent him an email with like an official letterhead

390
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Speaker 2: that said that she was from the Department of Health,

391
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Speaker 2: and she said at this time he was then happy

392
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Speaker 2: to speak and she asked him whether or not Aaron

393
00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:52,680
Speaker 2: Patterson was known to forage mushrooms, and Simon Patterson's response

394
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Speaker 2: to her memory was, it wasn't something.

395
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Speaker 4: That I ever really knowed her to do.

396
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Speaker 2: And when I asked if the lunch guests were was

397
00:20:00,040 --> 00:20:03,199
Speaker 2: commonplace for them to eat together, he said, no, it

398
00:20:03,240 --> 00:20:05,000
Speaker 2: would have been years ago, if at all.

399
00:20:05,240 --> 00:20:07,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that that was probably some sort of family

400
00:20:07,359 --> 00:20:10,040
Speaker 1: meal if they had eaten together at all. But as

401
00:20:10,080 --> 00:20:14,200
Speaker 1: you mentioned, Simon Patterson was contacted. Sally Ane Atkinson said

402
00:20:14,680 --> 00:20:16,960
Speaker 1: as the next of kin for Don and Gale. She

403
00:20:17,119 --> 00:20:19,919
Speaker 1: noted that there were two next of kin details that

404
00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:23,000
Speaker 1: she took, so also for Heather and Ian Wilkinson, because

405
00:20:23,200 --> 00:20:26,280
Speaker 1: when someone is so unwell, they probably can't answer the questions.

406
00:20:26,359 --> 00:20:28,919
Speaker 1: And as people have heard sort of earlier in this

407
00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:31,760
Speaker 1: episode and throughout the trial, by the time these people

408
00:20:31,840 --> 00:20:34,920
Speaker 1: were in hospital, they were very unwell. And she said

409
00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:37,080
Speaker 1: through her evidence, Sally Ane Atkinson, she was aware that

410
00:20:37,080 --> 00:20:39,840
Speaker 1: there were four people quite ill in hospital, and that

411
00:20:39,880 --> 00:20:41,480
Speaker 1: she was aware there was a fifth person at least

412
00:20:41,480 --> 00:20:43,600
Speaker 1: on their way to hospital. And she then when she

413
00:20:43,640 --> 00:20:46,960
Speaker 1: picked up what had happened with her conversations around Aaron Patterson.

414
00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:49,600
Speaker 1: She was asked about a conversation they had over the

415
00:20:49,600 --> 00:20:52,760
Speaker 1: phone on the first of August twenty twenty three, while

416
00:20:52,800 --> 00:20:55,119
Speaker 1: Aaron Patterson was still in hospital, and she said that

417
00:20:55,560 --> 00:20:59,040
Speaker 1: she had basically said, oh, I'm sort of feeling okay

418
00:20:59,080 --> 00:21:01,520
Speaker 1: at the moment. But here's a little bit more of

419
00:21:01,560 --> 00:21:04,120
Speaker 1: the evidence as the court heard it. This is Sally

420
00:21:04,119 --> 00:21:07,440
Speaker 1: Anne Atkinson while being questioned by Jane Warren from the prosecution.

421
00:21:07,560 --> 00:21:08,560
Speaker 1: It's voiced by actors.

422
00:21:08,800 --> 00:21:11,919
Speaker 6: At that stage. Where was she she was still in

423
00:21:11,920 --> 00:21:14,840
Speaker 6: the hospital. Did she say how she was feeling?

424
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Speaker 3: She said she was feeling okay, okay.

425
00:21:17,720 --> 00:21:19,360
Speaker 6: Did you ask her about her symptoms?

426
00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:19,880
Speaker 4: I did?

427
00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:23,040
Speaker 3: She told me that her symptoms that she had experienced

428
00:21:23,080 --> 00:21:25,840
Speaker 3: some diarrhea. She said she started to feel a bit

429
00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:29,280
Speaker 3: unwell slightly before midnight of the twenty ninth and thirtieth,

430
00:21:29,720 --> 00:21:32,479
Speaker 3: and then about midnight she said she had started to

431
00:21:32,520 --> 00:21:36,879
Speaker 3: experience explosive diarrhea, which she said went pretty much throughout

432
00:21:36,920 --> 00:21:40,600
Speaker 3: the evening throughout that night every fifteen to twenty minutes,

433
00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:43,359
Speaker 3: and then throughout the rest of Sunday she said it

434
00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:47,000
Speaker 3: was more approximately every forty five minutes. She then said,

435
00:21:47,040 --> 00:21:50,320
Speaker 3: towards the end of Sunday afternoon evening she started to

436
00:21:50,359 --> 00:21:52,639
Speaker 3: feel better, so she had a little bit of something

437
00:21:52,680 --> 00:21:55,320
Speaker 3: to eat, a bowl of cereal, I believe, and then

438
00:21:55,359 --> 00:21:57,480
Speaker 3: she said she started to feel worse again.

439
00:21:58,119 --> 00:22:01,480
Speaker 2: So this Feige conversation Sally Natkinson record went for about

440
00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:04,600
Speaker 2: fifteen minutes, and she'd got the phone number from medical

441
00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:07,760
Speaker 2: staff for Aaron Patterson as part of her investigation to

442
00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:10,000
Speaker 2: try and find out what was going on and whether

443
00:22:10,080 --> 00:22:11,960
Speaker 2: or not there was some sort of outbreak of a

444
00:22:12,040 --> 00:22:14,240
Speaker 2: deathcap mushroom poisoning, and whether or not there could be

445
00:22:14,320 --> 00:22:18,560
Speaker 2: other people that may be unwell. And as their conversation continued,

446
00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:21,439
Speaker 2: the witness said that Aaron Patterson told her she started

447
00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:24,000
Speaker 2: to feel a little bit better after initially feeling unwell

448
00:22:24,040 --> 00:22:27,439
Speaker 2: after the lunch around about the end of Sunday, and

449
00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:29,720
Speaker 2: she even went ate a bowl of cereal, but then

450
00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:32,040
Speaker 2: began to feel a lot worse and it was that

451
00:22:32,080 --> 00:22:34,400
Speaker 2: point she dropped her kids off at the bus stop,

452
00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:36,240
Speaker 2: got them ready for school, and said that she then

453
00:22:36,280 --> 00:22:39,800
Speaker 2: took herself to hospital. Atkinson then went on to ask

454
00:22:39,880 --> 00:22:42,639
Speaker 2: more details, she said, of Aaron Patterson about what was

455
00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:43,240
Speaker 2: in the lunch.

456
00:22:43,760 --> 00:22:46,200
Speaker 1: So here's the more of the evidence as the court

457
00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:47,920
Speaker 1: heard it from Sally Anne Atkinson.

458
00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:51,320
Speaker 6: Did you ask her any details to provide you any

459
00:22:51,320 --> 00:22:54,119
Speaker 6: details about the meal that she served on the twenty

460
00:22:54,240 --> 00:22:56,000
Speaker 6: ninth of July I did?

461
00:22:56,560 --> 00:23:00,840
Speaker 3: She confirmed that it was beef Wellington, Yes, and she'd

462
00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:04,560
Speaker 3: also served mashed potato and beans, and that she'd also

463
00:23:04,680 --> 00:23:07,400
Speaker 3: had a packet of gravy that was one of those

464
00:23:07,520 --> 00:23:11,800
Speaker 3: reheatable packets, so she didn't make it herself. She explained

465
00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:14,120
Speaker 3: that it was a meal she had never made before

466
00:23:14,320 --> 00:23:17,159
Speaker 3: and that she wanted to do something fancy, and she

467
00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:20,359
Speaker 3: explained that the majority of the ingredients she had purchased

468
00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:22,520
Speaker 3: were from leon Gatha Woolworth's.

469
00:23:22,800 --> 00:23:26,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, Aaron Patterson told the witness that she'd use woolworst

470
00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:29,479
Speaker 2: mushrooms and then also dried mushrooms that she'd purchased from

471
00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:33,119
Speaker 2: an Asian grosser. But Atkinson said Aaron Patterson was unable

472
00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:35,600
Speaker 2: to recall exactly where she bought the dried mushrooms, but

473
00:23:35,640 --> 00:23:38,760
Speaker 2: she believed that it was sometime in April twenty twenty

474
00:23:38,760 --> 00:23:40,119
Speaker 2: three during the school holidays.

475
00:23:40,119 --> 00:23:40,560
Speaker 4: Perhaps.

476
00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:43,439
Speaker 2: She said that she may have dropped her children off

477
00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:44,359
Speaker 2: an activity.

478
00:23:44,359 --> 00:23:45,960
Speaker 4: It was an unusual thing for her to go.

479
00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:48,680
Speaker 2: They would go and stay down in Melbourne and she

480
00:23:48,720 --> 00:23:51,760
Speaker 2: would drop her children off for these school holiday activities

481
00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:53,720
Speaker 2: and then she would go and drive around for a

482
00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:55,920
Speaker 2: little while until it was time to pick them up again.

483
00:23:56,000 --> 00:23:58,320
Speaker 2: And she said, that's what happened on this occasion. She

484
00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:01,800
Speaker 2: drove around and then later I took the purchase home

485
00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:04,520
Speaker 2: that the dried mushrooms. She said, we're in a small

486
00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:06,960
Speaker 2: clear bag and she bought them. She told the witness

487
00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:08,879
Speaker 2: for a specific meal which she thought was possibly a

488
00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:09,639
Speaker 2: pasta dish.

489
00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:12,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, And then this witness gave some evidence which she

490
00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:15,360
Speaker 1: will continue to hear throughout this episode of text messages

491
00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:18,040
Speaker 1: she exchanged with Aaron Patterson as well as these phone calls,

492
00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:21,160
Speaker 1: and she said later that sort of after they'd had

493
00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:23,520
Speaker 1: this conversation, which was about eight thirty in the morning

494
00:24:23,520 --> 00:24:25,640
Speaker 1: on that first of August, that later in that day

495
00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:28,399
Speaker 1: she also followed up with a text message that she

496
00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:31,680
Speaker 1: sort of was alerting her to a number of questions

497
00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:34,480
Speaker 1: that she needed to ask her because she hadn't hadn't

498
00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:35,920
Speaker 1: been able to sort of get on to her again

499
00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:38,199
Speaker 1: to answer those questions. So let's hear a little bit

500
00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:40,560
Speaker 1: more of what Sally Anne Atkinson told the court in

501
00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:43,840
Speaker 1: her evidence regarding this first sort of text message exchange

502
00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:45,080
Speaker 1: she had with Aaron Patterson.

503
00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:48,359
Speaker 6: At the top of that, we see text message Tuesday

504
00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:51,439
Speaker 6: one August at three point thirty pm. So this is

505
00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:54,440
Speaker 6: a message you were referring to just prior in your evidence,

506
00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:55,200
Speaker 6: Is that right?

507
00:24:55,720 --> 00:24:56,679
Speaker 3: Yes? Yep?

508
00:24:57,160 --> 00:24:59,359
Speaker 6: And can you please read out what you wrote in

509
00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:00,320
Speaker 6: that message?

510
00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:04,639
Speaker 3: Hi, erin, Sally from the Department of Health here. I

511
00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:07,640
Speaker 3: spoke with you this morning. I have left a message

512
00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:09,520
Speaker 3: for you to call me, but thought it might be

513
00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:12,080
Speaker 3: helpful if I let you know this sort of information

514
00:25:12,320 --> 00:25:15,920
Speaker 3: I wanted to discuss. I need to know what drinks

515
00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:18,640
Speaker 3: were served at the lunch. I also need to know

516
00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:21,880
Speaker 3: what type of shalots you purchased, and if you could

517
00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:25,040
Speaker 3: please give me a basic description of the packaging of

518
00:25:25,080 --> 00:25:28,399
Speaker 3: the mushrooms from the Asian grocer, that would be good.

519
00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:33,080
Speaker 3: Approximately the weight and size of the packaging. Was it

520
00:25:33,119 --> 00:25:37,040
Speaker 3: partially see through or not? And if you can think

521
00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:39,240
Speaker 3: of the names of the roads you were parked on

522
00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:42,480
Speaker 3: or near when you went to the different grocery stores,

523
00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:45,920
Speaker 3: then I can get officers out looking around those areas.

524
00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:49,360
Speaker 3: Even a landmark you might have remembered at the time

525
00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:52,720
Speaker 3: would be helpful. Just things to think about for when

526
00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:55,600
Speaker 3: I talk to you again. Thank you, Sally.

527
00:25:56,840 --> 00:25:59,600
Speaker 6: Now did you receive a response to that text message

528
00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:03,840
Speaker 6: from Patterson? I did, and that was at what time? Please?

529
00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:05,920
Speaker 3: Four eight pm?

530
00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:07,720
Speaker 6: And could you read out the response please?

531
00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:12,320
Speaker 3: Hi, Sally. Sure, I will try to get that information

532
00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:15,919
Speaker 3: all to you as soon as possible. I'm just dealing

533
00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:18,080
Speaker 3: with trying to manage and look after the kids in

534
00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:21,439
Speaker 3: hospital here and a bit snowed under trying to manage that.

535
00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:24,520
Speaker 3: I'll get this info to you as soon as I can,

536
00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:27,000
Speaker 3: but I've just been in a couple of meetings with

537
00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:29,480
Speaker 3: people at the hospital when you've been trying to call.

538
00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:34,000
Speaker 6: Okay and then you responded, yes, at what time please?

539
00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:38,679
Speaker 3: Shortly after I think at four ten. I said, thanks

540
00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:42,399
Speaker 3: so much. I understand. Are your kids doing okay at

541
00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:46,080
Speaker 3: the moment. I will try calling you later this afternoon

542
00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:47,200
Speaker 3: around five.

543
00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:50,359
Speaker 6: Okay, And she replied, at what time please?

544
00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:56,320
Speaker 3: Her reply was eleven minutes past four pm. She said, yeah,

545
00:26:56,440 --> 00:27:00,760
Speaker 3: they're fine. Thanks, thank you, And I said very pleased

546
00:27:00,800 --> 00:27:01,320
Speaker 3: to hear that.

547
00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:06,920
Speaker 6: Yes, that's okay. Now, did you that afternoon or evening

548
00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:10,679
Speaker 6: make any further attempts to contact Aaron Patterson by phone?

549
00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:13,840
Speaker 3: I did. At five twenty two pm.

550
00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:16,639
Speaker 6: I tried to call her, okay. Did she answer?

551
00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:17,960
Speaker 3: No? She did not.

552
00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:18,960
Speaker 6: Did you leave her?

553
00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:21,960
Speaker 3: I left a voice message for her asking her to

554
00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:22,440
Speaker 3: call me.

555
00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:25,560
Speaker 6: Back, okay. Did you receive a response that day?

556
00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:26,639
Speaker 3: No? I did not.

557
00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:30,080
Speaker 2: It was during this early phone conversation Penny as well

558
00:27:30,119 --> 00:27:34,199
Speaker 2: that Aaron Patterson recalled to the witness that everybody, all

559
00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:37,040
Speaker 2: the lunch guests that arrived at about twelve twenty pm

560
00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:39,600
Speaker 2: in the afternoon, and she said everybody had been served

561
00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:40,880
Speaker 2: individually and they had.

562
00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:43,680
Speaker 4: All made they'd all had their own meals.

563
00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:47,000
Speaker 2: But when asked if Atkinson had been told at any

564
00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:48,760
Speaker 2: point of what the purpose of the lunch was she

565
00:27:48,800 --> 00:27:50,320
Speaker 2: said at that point, no, she wasn't.

566
00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:52,720
Speaker 1: And she followed up this part of her evidence where

567
00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:55,000
Speaker 1: she was talking about that text messaging before onto the

568
00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:57,680
Speaker 1: next morning, so this is now the second of August.

569
00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:00,280
Speaker 1: She said that she called Aaron Patterson and she hadn't

570
00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:03,040
Speaker 1: got an answer, so she'd left her a voice mail,

571
00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:05,239
Speaker 1: and that she said she said in that message that

572
00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:08,280
Speaker 1: followed another text message following up about half an hour later,

573
00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:11,440
Speaker 1: that she really needed to get the investigation under way,

574
00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:13,760
Speaker 1: and that she was going to send Aaron Patterson some

575
00:28:13,880 --> 00:28:16,600
Speaker 1: questions or if she wanted to send her her email address,

576
00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:18,159
Speaker 1: she could do it that way as well, but that

577
00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:20,760
Speaker 1: she really needed to start to get this information. It

578
00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:23,840
Speaker 1: was becoming quite urgent. And she then sent Aaron Patterson

579
00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:26,840
Speaker 1: a list of seven questions via this text message and

580
00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:29,320
Speaker 1: she was taken through them. She's basically reading them out

581
00:28:29,359 --> 00:28:31,520
Speaker 1: as they were being shown up on the screens in

582
00:28:31,560 --> 00:28:34,040
Speaker 1: the courtroom as well through her evidence. So let's hear

583
00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:37,400
Speaker 1: a little bit more of Sally Anne Atkinson explaining this

584
00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:40,320
Speaker 1: element of the text messages. It's while she's been questioned

585
00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:44,160
Speaker 1: by Jane Warren from the prosecution. I understand you probably

586
00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:47,360
Speaker 1: have a lot going on, so I thought i'd message

587
00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:50,000
Speaker 1: with my questions so you can respond with what you

588
00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:53,680
Speaker 1: do know and work on the rest. Alternatively, I am

589
00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:56,800
Speaker 1: also happy to email you if you provide me with

590
00:28:56,840 --> 00:28:59,640
Speaker 1: your email address, if that is an easier way to

591
00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:04,959
Speaker 1: type your responses. One can you please confirm that it

592
00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:08,400
Speaker 1: was definitely only the one other time you cooked with

593
00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:12,160
Speaker 1: the dried mushrooms when you first opened them. No one

594
00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:14,960
Speaker 1: else reported symptoms or issues when consumed.

595
00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:15,120
Speaker 4: Then.

596
00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:23,120
Speaker 3: Two, please advise what drinks were served at lunch. Three

597
00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:26,440
Speaker 3: please confirm what kind of charlots were used in the

598
00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:31,120
Speaker 3: beef Wellington. Were they spring onions or the small individual

599
00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:32,880
Speaker 3: Charlotte type onions? Please?

600
00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:34,720
Speaker 7: Four?

601
00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:38,880
Speaker 3: Did you possibly use your card to purchase the mushrooms?

602
00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:42,640
Speaker 3: And can you please check your bank statements for the shop?

603
00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:49,120
Speaker 3: That would be amazingly helpful. Five could there possibly be

604
00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:53,360
Speaker 3: any other food left over still in the fridge? We

605
00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:56,120
Speaker 3: could get counsel to meet your children on site and

606
00:29:56,160 --> 00:30:01,320
Speaker 3: collect for testing. Six can you look at the maps

607
00:30:01,760 --> 00:30:04,840
Speaker 3: and think of the streets you parked on or near?

608
00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:08,200
Speaker 3: That would be helpful for the shops in Oakley, Mount

609
00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:13,400
Speaker 3: Waverley or Clayton. We are urgently organizing sampling to get

610
00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:18,320
Speaker 3: started today. Seven. Can you recall the size and type

611
00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:22,080
Speaker 3: of packaging including color? What made you pick that brand

612
00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:26,640
Speaker 3: over any others? Thanks again for your assistance and please

613
00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:28,959
Speaker 3: feel free to call me back if you prefer.

614
00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:31,720
Speaker 6: And then if we go to the next page, you

615
00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:32,520
Speaker 6: finished it all.

616
00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:36,800
Speaker 3: Off, yeah, I said, regards Sally Department of Health.

617
00:30:37,360 --> 00:30:41,280
Speaker 6: Okay, now just to remind ourselves that was sent at

618
00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:45,280
Speaker 6: nine twenty nine am on Wednesday to August. Is that

619
00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:49,600
Speaker 6: right correct? Did you receive any response from Aaron Patterson

620
00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:49,800
Speaker 6: to that?

621
00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:50,640
Speaker 3: I did not.

622
00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:51,280
Speaker 6: Yeah.

623
00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:53,800
Speaker 2: The witness actually struggled to get hold of Aaron Patterson

624
00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:56,840
Speaker 2: on the phone, making phone calls on and off for

625
00:30:56,880 --> 00:30:59,640
Speaker 2: a number of days and continue to send her text messages.

626
00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:01,640
Speaker 2: And this is when she said she learned that there

627
00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:04,960
Speaker 2: was a child protection worker, a Katrina Crips, who was

628
00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:07,480
Speaker 2: visiting the family home after the accused and her kids

629
00:31:07,480 --> 00:31:10,080
Speaker 2: had been released from hospital, and she asked between her

630
00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:11,640
Speaker 2: cryps if she could put them in touch.

631
00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:14,520
Speaker 1: Yeah. So, as you mentioned, the number of days, this

632
00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:18,080
Speaker 1: sort of evidence from Sally ane Atkinson did span quite

633
00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:20,200
Speaker 1: a period and it was brought up a number of

634
00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:22,480
Speaker 1: times to her that she would send these texts often,

635
00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:26,120
Speaker 1: especially if she hadn't been able to reach Erin on

636
00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:28,200
Speaker 1: the phone immediately, or sometimes that she was then sending

637
00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:30,240
Speaker 1: text saying can I call you now, just to try

638
00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:32,400
Speaker 1: and touch base. But this was on the second of

639
00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:35,880
Speaker 1: August again as well. She noted after Aaron Patterson and

640
00:31:35,920 --> 00:31:38,560
Speaker 1: the children had been discharged from hospital, that this child

641
00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:40,680
Speaker 1: protection worker was going to visit the home, and she

642
00:31:40,760 --> 00:31:44,120
Speaker 1: said that she asked if she would basically facilitate a

643
00:31:44,120 --> 00:31:45,960
Speaker 1: phone call because she needed to get some more of

644
00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:49,240
Speaker 1: these questions answered. And it was in her evidence to

645
00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:51,360
Speaker 1: the jury that this phone call was made at one

646
00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:54,560
Speaker 1: fourteen pm of that day, the second of August, and

647
00:31:54,600 --> 00:31:58,000
Speaker 1: she told the court that, yes, while this sort of

648
00:31:58,040 --> 00:32:00,520
Speaker 1: colleague was there, she handed the phone to Aaron, that

649
00:32:00,560 --> 00:32:03,120
Speaker 1: Aaron was with her and that they had this discussion,

650
00:32:03,200 --> 00:32:06,160
Speaker 1: and she went through a number of points of that discussion.

651
00:32:06,200 --> 00:32:07,960
Speaker 1: Let's hear a little bit more of the evidence. As

652
00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:09,400
Speaker 1: the court was told.

653
00:32:09,680 --> 00:32:12,120
Speaker 6: You had asked her in the text messages to confirm

654
00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:15,120
Speaker 6: that it was definitely only the one other time that

655
00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:17,960
Speaker 6: she cooked with the dried mushrooms. What did she say

656
00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:18,800
Speaker 6: in relation to that?

657
00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:22,520
Speaker 3: She stated they had not the mushrooms had not been

658
00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:23,800
Speaker 3: used in any other.

659
00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:25,640
Speaker 6: Meal, okay? Did she say why?

660
00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:30,360
Speaker 3: She said that they smelt funny when she'd originally opened them,

661
00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:33,600
Speaker 3: so she decided not to use them. She felt they

662
00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:36,440
Speaker 3: smelt strong and funny, so thought they might be too

663
00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:39,880
Speaker 3: overpowering for the meal she'd originally planned for them, and

664
00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:42,960
Speaker 3: so just put them in a tupperware container to decide

665
00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:45,920
Speaker 3: what to do with them and not use them.

666
00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:49,800
Speaker 6: And that meal she originally planned before, is that the

667
00:32:49,800 --> 00:32:52,400
Speaker 6: meal you described earlier, the pasta dish.

668
00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:54,800
Speaker 3: The pasta type dish, yes, okay.

669
00:32:55,320 --> 00:32:58,840
Speaker 6: Was this information consistent or different to what she had

670
00:32:58,840 --> 00:33:00,680
Speaker 6: told you in the first commas about that?

671
00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:05,640
Speaker 3: Different in what way? The initial conversation seemed to indicate

672
00:33:05,720 --> 00:33:08,240
Speaker 3: she'd use some of them in the first dish, and

673
00:33:08,280 --> 00:33:11,000
Speaker 3: then saying, you know, she was saying that she had not,

674
00:33:11,520 --> 00:33:12,960
Speaker 3: but she wasn't very clear.

675
00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:16,600
Speaker 1: So there was quite a few questions at different times

676
00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:19,520
Speaker 1: through Sali Anne Atkinson's evidence that she said she was

677
00:33:19,560 --> 00:33:22,600
Speaker 1: asking Aaron Patterson any detail you can remember about where

678
00:33:22,600 --> 00:33:25,160
Speaker 1: these mushrooms came from. So here's some more of the

679
00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:28,000
Speaker 1: evidence as the court heard it from Sally Ane Atkinson.

680
00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:31,160
Speaker 6: Did you ask her another question about any other possible

681
00:33:31,240 --> 00:33:32,400
Speaker 6: sources for the mushrooms.

682
00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:36,200
Speaker 3: I did ask her if she had foraged for mushrooms and.

683
00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:38,880
Speaker 6: Picked them herself, and what was her response.

684
00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:42,200
Speaker 3: And she said no, she had bought them all right.

685
00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:45,640
Speaker 6: And in relation to the beef Wellington that was served

686
00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:48,880
Speaker 6: for lunch, did you ask some further questions about that?

687
00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:52,440
Speaker 3: During the conversation, we had a discussion, yes, about the

688
00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:55,960
Speaker 3: beef Wellington, and she made it clear that they the

689
00:33:56,000 --> 00:33:59,160
Speaker 3: meat she had purchased. She'd made the beef Wellington's as

690
00:33:59,280 --> 00:34:01,360
Speaker 3: individual beef Wellington serves.

691
00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:05,240
Speaker 1: And she also mentioned that Troy Shanick, who previously has

692
00:34:05,320 --> 00:34:07,680
Speaker 1: given evidence that he was involved on a council level

693
00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:10,560
Speaker 1: as an environmental officer, and that she could send through

694
00:34:10,719 --> 00:34:13,920
Speaker 1: some different some photos that have come from him to

695
00:34:14,040 --> 00:34:17,440
Speaker 1: try and establish if she recognized any of the mushrooms

696
00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:19,680
Speaker 1: he'd been out looking at in different shops.

697
00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:23,040
Speaker 2: And we heard from the witness that know that the

698
00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:26,440
Speaker 2: mushrooms that were in the photographs were of a different coloring.

699
00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:29,839
Speaker 2: And she continued to explain that they kept texting back

700
00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:34,560
Speaker 2: and forth trying to locate this Asian grocery store, and

701
00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:37,719
Speaker 2: then the conversation switched a little bit to more about

702
00:34:37,719 --> 00:34:41,480
Speaker 2: the cooking process of the beef Wellington Penny and Atkinson

703
00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:44,760
Speaker 2: said she was asking about the mushroom paste, the pace

704
00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:48,520
Speaker 2: that Aaron Patterson said was used to coat this tenderloin steak,

705
00:34:48,560 --> 00:34:50,840
Speaker 2: and there was questions about when it was cooked and

706
00:34:50,880 --> 00:34:53,520
Speaker 2: how many batches of the mushroom pace did you make,

707
00:34:53,600 --> 00:34:57,320
Speaker 2: and she recalled that Aaron said, no, only one batch

708
00:34:57,360 --> 00:35:00,080
Speaker 2: of this mushroom paste was cooked. And then the there

709
00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:03,800
Speaker 2: was more information back and forth in another phone conversation,

710
00:35:03,880 --> 00:35:06,960
Speaker 2: and this was at about eleven twenty Ampenny the next day,

711
00:35:07,239 --> 00:35:10,320
Speaker 2: moving to August three, twenty twenty three, and the witness

712
00:35:10,320 --> 00:35:12,279
Speaker 2: said that Peter had another phone call at this at

713
00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:15,360
Speaker 2: this point and it went for about fourteen or so minutes.

714
00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:18,600
Speaker 2: Atkinson said this was the first time she really recalled

715
00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:22,280
Speaker 2: one of the suburbs of interest changing. She was explaining

716
00:35:22,320 --> 00:35:25,719
Speaker 2: that it was Clayton, Mount Waverly. These areas were where

717
00:35:25,719 --> 00:35:27,680
Speaker 2: they wore, Cly and Oakley where they were they had

718
00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:30,160
Speaker 2: their search going at the time and they were trying

719
00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:32,320
Speaker 2: to get in touch with other investigators to sort of

720
00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:34,080
Speaker 2: help on the ground, and she was explaining to Aaron

721
00:35:34,120 --> 00:35:36,640
Speaker 2: Patterson that we have people ready to go out onto

722
00:35:36,640 --> 00:35:39,160
Speaker 2: the streets. Is there any street names you remember, any

723
00:35:39,160 --> 00:35:41,520
Speaker 2: places you remember, any street corners, things.

724
00:35:41,320 --> 00:35:42,200
Speaker 4: Like this to help.

725
00:35:43,400 --> 00:35:46,520
Speaker 2: But Atkinson said this was different, and at this point

726
00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:49,800
Speaker 2: she believed that Aaron Patterson had not mentioned Glenn Waverley

727
00:35:49,880 --> 00:35:52,200
Speaker 2: to her before, and it was in this fourteen minute

728
00:35:52,239 --> 00:35:54,840
Speaker 2: phone conversation on the third of August that she said

729
00:35:55,040 --> 00:35:58,200
Speaker 2: glen Waverley, not Mount Waverley, was mentioned for the first time.

730
00:35:58,440 --> 00:36:00,520
Speaker 1: And let's hear a little bit more from Sally An

731
00:36:00,560 --> 00:36:04,480
Speaker 1: Atkinson's evidence about that particular phone call again, talking about

732
00:36:04,520 --> 00:36:07,879
Speaker 1: what she says Aaron Patterson relayed to her about how

733
00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:12,680
Speaker 1: she'd cooked this particular meal, what sort of amounts she'd

734
00:36:12,680 --> 00:36:14,399
Speaker 1: cooked it in, whether it was all in one batch

735
00:36:14,560 --> 00:36:16,440
Speaker 1: or not, and why it was that she'd been asking

736
00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:17,719
Speaker 1: those particular questions.

737
00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:21,560
Speaker 6: In respect to the paste, did she say anything about

738
00:36:21,560 --> 00:36:22,600
Speaker 6: how much was used?

739
00:36:23,280 --> 00:36:25,600
Speaker 3: She said that she used up all of the paste

740
00:36:25,719 --> 00:36:28,640
Speaker 3: to coat all of the tenderloin steaks that she had used,

741
00:36:28,680 --> 00:36:30,200
Speaker 3: and all of it was used up.

742
00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:33,600
Speaker 6: Did she describe how she coated them, what did she

743
00:36:33,960 --> 00:36:37,120
Speaker 6: do to coat them? She didn't explain that. She just

744
00:36:37,200 --> 00:36:40,440
Speaker 6: said that they were She just used it to cover.

745
00:36:40,280 --> 00:36:41,400
Speaker 3: Them, okay?

746
00:36:41,960 --> 00:36:44,160
Speaker 6: And then what was done with the steaks once they

747
00:36:44,160 --> 00:36:47,200
Speaker 6: were covered in the mushroom paste? Then they were wrapped

748
00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:51,040
Speaker 6: in pastry okay. Did she say if there was any

749
00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:52,360
Speaker 6: of the paste leftover?

750
00:36:52,800 --> 00:36:55,280
Speaker 3: No, she said she'd used up all the paste.

751
00:36:55,960 --> 00:36:59,160
Speaker 6: Did you ask her about how many batches of paste

752
00:36:59,320 --> 00:36:59,880
Speaker 6: she cooked?

753
00:37:00,239 --> 00:37:00,640
Speaker 4: I did.

754
00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:02,839
Speaker 3: I asked her if she'd cooked.

755
00:37:02,480 --> 00:37:05,120
Speaker 6: More than one batch, and her answer was.

756
00:37:05,160 --> 00:37:07,280
Speaker 3: No, she only cooked one batch.

757
00:37:07,719 --> 00:37:10,640
Speaker 6: Was there a particular reason why you asked that question?

758
00:37:11,040 --> 00:37:13,040
Speaker 3: In case there had been some which had had the

759
00:37:13,120 --> 00:37:16,080
Speaker 3: mushrooms in from the dried mushrooms that might have been

760
00:37:16,120 --> 00:37:19,239
Speaker 3: causing illness and others not, and so would explain why

761
00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:22,120
Speaker 3: some people were sick and some were not. Or did

762
00:37:22,160 --> 00:37:25,719
Speaker 3: she just not factor in enough mushrooms so she purchased more?

763
00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:28,320
Speaker 3: Just to make sure I covered everything.

764
00:37:28,840 --> 00:37:31,239
Speaker 1: Sally at Atkinson finished the evidence of what the jury

765
00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:34,200
Speaker 1: has heard so far by mentioning and being asked a

766
00:37:34,239 --> 00:37:35,480
Speaker 1: little bit about pastry.

767
00:37:35,520 --> 00:37:35,680
Speaker 7: Now.

768
00:37:35,719 --> 00:37:38,680
Speaker 1: She said that after she'd asked all of these questions

769
00:37:38,680 --> 00:37:41,040
Speaker 1: over various days and gone back and forth with text

770
00:37:41,120 --> 00:37:44,560
Speaker 1: messages covering things from not only what was the main

771
00:37:44,640 --> 00:37:46,480
Speaker 1: meal at the lunch and how it was served, but

772
00:37:46,880 --> 00:37:49,520
Speaker 1: the cake that had been eaten, the fruit, the drinks,

773
00:37:49,600 --> 00:37:52,239
Speaker 1: all of these different elements that she realized that she

774
00:37:52,360 --> 00:37:56,600
Speaker 1: hadn't actually confirmed the pastry where that had come from,

775
00:37:56,640 --> 00:37:58,640
Speaker 1: how it was used, And she said she spoke to

776
00:37:58,719 --> 00:38:02,239
Speaker 1: Aaron Patterson to confirm that what type of pastry was it?

777
00:38:02,320 --> 00:38:05,160
Speaker 1: Had you also bought this from the shops or had

778
00:38:05,160 --> 00:38:07,600
Speaker 1: you got it from from your freezer? And she said

779
00:38:07,600 --> 00:38:10,560
Speaker 1: Aaron Patterson said it was Pampus puff pastry, that she

780
00:38:10,640 --> 00:38:12,759
Speaker 1: had some in the freezer, but then she'd also bought more.

781
00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:15,360
Speaker 1: And then she also added in a follow up exchange

782
00:38:15,520 --> 00:38:18,279
Speaker 1: that she'd also used a roll of Philo pastry that

783
00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:20,839
Speaker 1: was sort of in a round cylinder shape. So that's

784
00:38:20,840 --> 00:38:23,239
Speaker 1: what the jury's sort of heard so far, going back

785
00:38:23,320 --> 00:38:26,279
Speaker 1: and forth over these what Sally Anne Atkinson recalls as

786
00:38:26,320 --> 00:38:29,160
Speaker 1: being Aaron Patterson's shopping habits of the times that she'd

787
00:38:29,200 --> 00:38:33,680
Speaker 1: gone not only the source of the Asian grosser mushrooms

788
00:38:33,680 --> 00:38:35,800
Speaker 1: they were trying to find, but also how often and

789
00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:38,120
Speaker 1: not she might have gone to the local Woolworths and

790
00:38:38,160 --> 00:38:41,759
Speaker 1: when exactly different ingredients had been purchased. That's what the

791
00:38:41,840 --> 00:38:44,319
Speaker 1: jury has heard so far from her evidence. But we

792
00:38:44,400 --> 00:38:47,719
Speaker 1: expect that we more to come. Thank you for listening

793
00:38:47,800 --> 00:38:50,480
Speaker 1: to this episode of Say Grace. Please press the follow

794
00:38:50,520 --> 00:38:52,600
Speaker 1: button in your app to get our next episodes as

795
00:38:52,640 --> 00:38:53,480
Speaker 1: soon as we publish.

796
00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:56,200
Speaker 2: For more reporting on the case, check out the Age

797
00:38:56,200 --> 00:38:58,240
Speaker 2: of nine News in your browser or app store.

798
00:38:58,320 --> 00:39:00,640
Speaker 1: We'd like to acknowledge the traditional owner of the land

799
00:39:00,719 --> 00:39:03,600
Speaker 1: that this podcast was recorded on and wherever you're listening

800
00:39:03,600 --> 00:39:06,319
Speaker 1: to it now. Say Grace is created and hosted by

801
00:39:06,360 --> 00:39:10,040
Speaker 1: me Penelope Lish and me Erin Piercing. This podcast is

802
00:39:10,080 --> 00:39:11,439
Speaker 1: produced by Genevieve Rule