1 00:00:07,870 --> 00:00:11,110 S1: Hey there. I'm Osman Farooqui and this is The Drop, 2 00:00:11,140 --> 00:00:13,840 S1: a culture show from the Sydney Morning Herald in The Age, 3 00:00:13,840 --> 00:00:16,329 S1: where we dive into the latest in the world of 4 00:00:16,329 --> 00:00:20,380 S1: pop culture and entertainment. I'm here with Thomas Mitchell and 5 00:00:20,380 --> 00:00:22,600 S1: Rob Moran, folks. How are you going? 6 00:00:22,750 --> 00:00:24,130 S2: Yeah, pretty good. I thought you maybe you'd go with 7 00:00:24,130 --> 00:00:25,570 S2: the Rob Thomas intro. 8 00:00:25,810 --> 00:00:28,630 S1: Wow. I didn't really even put that together. That's kind 9 00:00:28,630 --> 00:00:30,980 S1: of got the Rob Thomas special missed opportunity there. 10 00:00:31,000 --> 00:00:34,840 S2: We can do a separate Matchbox 20 on how you. 11 00:00:34,840 --> 00:00:35,739 S1: Rob thanks for jumping on. 12 00:00:35,800 --> 00:00:37,030 S3: Good. Thanks for having me on. 13 00:00:37,060 --> 00:00:39,940 S1: The wonderful Mel Kimbra is away but kind of convenient 14 00:00:39,940 --> 00:00:43,720 S1: in a way because when we're talking about music, Kylie 15 00:00:43,720 --> 00:00:46,660 S1: Minogue Rob as one of our best music, I is 16 00:00:46,659 --> 00:00:48,760 S1: one of the best music writers in the country. Very 17 00:00:48,760 --> 00:00:50,020 S1: glad to have you on the show. 18 00:00:50,170 --> 00:00:52,449 S3: The nice singer, Thanks. 19 00:00:53,560 --> 00:00:56,140 S1: We're going to touch on a few different topics on 20 00:00:56,140 --> 00:01:00,070 S1: today's episode. We're mainly here to focus on Kylie Minogue, 21 00:01:00,070 --> 00:01:03,490 S1: but we're also going to mention episode two of The Idol, 22 00:01:03,490 --> 00:01:06,550 S1: which we went into much more depth last week on 23 00:01:06,640 --> 00:01:08,679 S1: the show. And I'm also going to shout out one 24 00:01:08,680 --> 00:01:11,200 S1: of the best films I've seen this year at the 25 00:01:11,200 --> 00:01:15,310 S1: end of today's episode. But right now let's talk. Kylie. 26 00:01:24,670 --> 00:01:29,290 UU: You look like fun to me. You look a little 27 00:01:29,290 --> 00:01:35,790 UU: like somebody. No. And I can tell you how this ends. 28 00:01:36,270 --> 00:01:37,710 UU: I'll be in your head. 29 00:01:37,920 --> 00:01:41,420 S1: She's re-entered the charts with her new song, Padam Padam. 30 00:01:41,459 --> 00:01:44,789 S1: It's the first single from her upcoming new album, Tension, 31 00:01:44,790 --> 00:01:48,000 S1: which is due out in September but is a dancey 32 00:01:48,000 --> 00:01:52,560 S1: synthy pop song. And it's charting pretty well across the UK, 33 00:01:52,560 --> 00:01:55,560 S1: Australia and the US. It's one of her biggest hits 34 00:01:55,560 --> 00:01:58,500 S1: in a decade really, and I think that's largely thanks 35 00:01:58,500 --> 00:02:01,230 S1: to the fact that Kylie has managed to bridge her 36 00:02:01,230 --> 00:02:05,370 S1: legion of loyal older fans with an entirely new demographic, 37 00:02:05,390 --> 00:02:09,380 S1: younger cohort who are loving this song. On TikTok in particular, 38 00:02:09,389 --> 00:02:11,850 S1: the title of Padam Padam is supposed to be a 39 00:02:11,850 --> 00:02:15,480 S1: reference to the sound of a heartbeat, and it's borrowed 40 00:02:15,480 --> 00:02:18,870 S1: from a 1951 Edith Piaf song. She kind of came 41 00:02:18,870 --> 00:02:22,139 S1: up with Padam Padam as the as the way to 42 00:02:22,139 --> 00:02:24,630 S1: sing about how a heart sounds. 43 00:02:24,660 --> 00:02:28,240 S3: Nice modern reference there from Kylie. I mean, 50. 44 00:02:28,240 --> 00:02:29,970 S1: Or 72 years. It's a long time. 45 00:02:29,970 --> 00:02:30,280 S3: Yeah. 46 00:02:30,330 --> 00:02:32,010 S1: There's a lot to dig into, I think, because I'm 47 00:02:32,010 --> 00:02:34,350 S1: keen to talk to you guys both about the phenomenon 48 00:02:34,350 --> 00:02:37,919 S1: of this song, which has become such a viral hit really, 49 00:02:37,919 --> 00:02:40,260 S1: but also use that as an opportunity to talk about 50 00:02:40,260 --> 00:02:44,040 S1: Kylie's career more generally. I say with you, Thomas, this 51 00:02:44,040 --> 00:02:46,950 S1: song in particular, Padam Padam Why do you think it's 52 00:02:46,950 --> 00:02:48,870 S1: become so infectious? 53 00:02:48,900 --> 00:02:50,970 S2: Kind of like you said. I reckon it's purpose built 54 00:02:50,970 --> 00:02:54,480 S2: for this, like viral internet age. Like, you know, obviously 55 00:02:54,480 --> 00:02:56,970 S2: on TikTok people are embracing it because like the choreography 56 00:02:56,970 --> 00:02:59,370 S2: is really good. It's such a little snippet, like the 57 00:02:59,370 --> 00:03:00,720 S2: bottom bottom. 58 00:03:02,280 --> 00:03:06,810 UU: I hear it. I know that, But I know you 59 00:03:06,810 --> 00:03:08,609 UU: want to take me home. 60 00:03:10,110 --> 00:03:12,180 S2: And then, like you say, the dances and stuff, it 61 00:03:12,180 --> 00:03:14,790 S2: is really strange that, you know, Kylie's kind of like 62 00:03:14,790 --> 00:03:17,790 S2: the rusted on Kylie fan. You kind of picture in 63 00:03:17,790 --> 00:03:19,350 S2: your head is like, she's so big in the gay 64 00:03:19,350 --> 00:03:22,470 S2: community and, you know, half of them probably don't even 65 00:03:22,470 --> 00:03:25,260 S2: know what TikTok is like, these older demographic. And then 66 00:03:25,380 --> 00:03:26,880 S2: you watch a lot. You go on TikTok. I think 67 00:03:26,880 --> 00:03:30,359 S2: it's got the damn hashtag has like 15 million views now. 68 00:03:30,360 --> 00:03:33,300 S2: And the dances that people are just like loving it. 69 00:03:33,300 --> 00:03:35,340 S2: And the funny thing is, the song came out like 70 00:03:35,340 --> 00:03:36,750 S2: a little while ago. It's been. 71 00:03:36,750 --> 00:03:37,470 S1: About six weeks, I. 72 00:03:37,470 --> 00:03:39,870 S2: Think. Yeah. But then and I remember getting like an 73 00:03:39,870 --> 00:03:41,910 S2: email about it, I was like, okay, another Kylie Minogue 74 00:03:41,910 --> 00:03:44,670 S2: dance track. Like maybe we'll just like trash that one 75 00:03:44,670 --> 00:03:46,530 S2: for the minute. And then in the last like maybe 76 00:03:46,530 --> 00:03:49,020 S2: two weeks, it's like just like seeing it all over 77 00:03:49,020 --> 00:03:51,420 S2: social media. So I think it's, it is, it's very 78 00:03:51,420 --> 00:03:52,500 S2: Internet friendly. 79 00:03:54,030 --> 00:04:05,500 UU: And getting really close. When your heart goes. I know 80 00:04:05,710 --> 00:04:06,690 UU: you want to take. 81 00:04:09,140 --> 00:04:12,110 S1: Yeah. And Kylie has been she jumped on TikTok, I 82 00:04:12,110 --> 00:04:14,660 S1: think actually a year or two ago. But with the 83 00:04:14,660 --> 00:04:17,029 S1: release of this album, she's done what so many big 84 00:04:17,029 --> 00:04:19,609 S1: artists have done, which is Embrace TikTok, make the song 85 00:04:19,610 --> 00:04:22,430 S1: available for others to use. But also she's posted a 86 00:04:22,430 --> 00:04:25,280 S1: lot of behind the scenes footage of it. She's engaged 87 00:04:25,279 --> 00:04:27,620 S1: with people who make viral videos. I think just on 88 00:04:27,620 --> 00:04:30,110 S1: a UK radio station this week, she shouted out a 89 00:04:30,110 --> 00:04:33,350 S1: particularly viral. I think these two guys who work in 90 00:04:33,350 --> 00:04:36,800 S1: a haberdashery in the UK, so they're sort of referencing 91 00:04:36,800 --> 00:04:39,710 S1: the music video, the red kind of cloth of the 92 00:04:40,130 --> 00:04:42,650 S1: music video. So she's engaging it. It's a very good 93 00:04:42,650 --> 00:04:46,219 S1: and smart rollout from her. But Rob, I mean, like 94 00:04:46,220 --> 00:04:48,230 S1: we've talked a bunch, you and I, about TikTok and 95 00:04:48,230 --> 00:04:50,690 S1: the impact that it's had on the music industry for 96 00:04:50,690 --> 00:04:52,280 S1: a song to go viral. Even if you've got an 97 00:04:52,279 --> 00:04:54,740 S1: artist willing to play ball on TikTok, it still needs 98 00:04:54,740 --> 00:04:57,140 S1: to be good, right? There needs to be like the 99 00:04:57,140 --> 00:04:59,690 S1: bones of a song that are catching interesting. 100 00:04:59,690 --> 00:05:02,870 S3: Yeah, definitely. This song is so it's strange that it 101 00:05:02,870 --> 00:05:06,530 S3: gets more kind of catchy each time you listen to it. 102 00:05:06,529 --> 00:05:08,540 S3: I've had it on repeat like the past couple of 103 00:05:08,540 --> 00:05:11,359 S3: days and it's gotten stuck in my head so much 104 00:05:11,360 --> 00:05:16,280 S3: that I'm pretty sure I heard my fridge humming this morning. 105 00:05:16,880 --> 00:05:20,450 S3: To me, the the kind of tone of it and 106 00:05:20,450 --> 00:05:23,510 S3: the the the beats on it reminded me of can't 107 00:05:23,510 --> 00:05:25,730 S3: get you out of my head. So it's like a 108 00:05:25,730 --> 00:05:28,910 S3: throwback to like probably peak catchiest. 109 00:05:28,910 --> 00:05:33,380 S1: Kylie It also feels like it's riffing off artists who 110 00:05:33,380 --> 00:05:36,680 S1: themselves have openly admitted that they are inspired by Kylie Minogue, 111 00:05:36,680 --> 00:05:40,190 S1: like Jessie Ware, Dua Lipa, who leaned into the kind 112 00:05:40,190 --> 00:05:44,960 S1: of going from disco to this Cynthia electro techno sound, 113 00:05:45,050 --> 00:05:47,780 S1: and she's now writing that wave. It's kind of like 114 00:05:47,779 --> 00:05:50,390 S1: she seems to be very good and has been. We'll 115 00:05:50,390 --> 00:05:53,240 S1: talk about this later at always knowing where the moment 116 00:05:53,240 --> 00:05:57,050 S1: is and creating a song for that kind of era. 117 00:05:57,050 --> 00:05:59,210 S1: Like this feels like this is part of, I don't know. 118 00:05:59,210 --> 00:06:01,130 S1: Thomas You go to the clubs as much as anyone. 119 00:06:01,190 --> 00:06:03,140 S1: Is this what is this the kind of music they're bumping? 120 00:06:03,140 --> 00:06:05,599 S2: It very much is. And like, you're right, what you said, 121 00:06:05,600 --> 00:06:08,779 S2: like listening to and seeing the reaction, it's like you 122 00:06:08,779 --> 00:06:12,830 S2: can almost hear the music execs who had a meeting 123 00:06:12,830 --> 00:06:17,480 S2: about like social media planning for Kylie 2022, 2023, just 124 00:06:17,480 --> 00:06:20,090 S2: like slapping themselves on the back and like we fucking 125 00:06:20,089 --> 00:06:22,370 S2: nailed it because it is, it is like it is 126 00:06:22,370 --> 00:06:23,989 S2: what everyone wants to do. They're like, Hey, we've got 127 00:06:23,990 --> 00:06:25,760 S2: this new product we've got. We're got to like leverage 128 00:06:25,760 --> 00:06:28,489 S2: off TikTok and make it viral. And like 99% of 129 00:06:28,490 --> 00:06:30,589 S2: the time that doesn't work. And they've just like, fully 130 00:06:30,589 --> 00:06:33,890 S2: nailed it. And it almost reminds me this weird comparison. 131 00:06:33,890 --> 00:06:36,560 S2: But like, remember earlier this year when, like, everyone was 132 00:06:36,560 --> 00:06:39,070 S2: absolutely fizzing over the White Lotus theme song? Yeah, yeah. 133 00:06:39,080 --> 00:06:41,600 S2: And then suddenly that like, kind of pop culture and 134 00:06:41,600 --> 00:06:43,789 S2: mainstream interests like then crossed over into like you were 135 00:06:43,790 --> 00:06:45,650 S2: hearing it in clubs and stuff. People like remix it. 136 00:06:45,650 --> 00:06:47,570 S1: But Golden Plains this year. 137 00:06:47,570 --> 00:06:49,729 S2: Yeah, yeah. It's like having that moment now. I've heard 138 00:06:49,730 --> 00:06:51,620 S2: like 3 or 4 different remixes that when you're out 139 00:06:51,620 --> 00:06:55,760 S2: and stuff like it's the level of saturation now is crazy. 140 00:06:55,850 --> 00:06:58,940 S1: Do you think there's an element of any kind of 141 00:06:58,940 --> 00:07:04,190 S1: irony to this? Like we've talked Rob before about the 142 00:07:04,190 --> 00:07:08,510 S1: generation of like pop artist who are very self-aware and 143 00:07:08,510 --> 00:07:11,300 S1: ironic in terms of their references and stuff. There's a 144 00:07:11,300 --> 00:07:14,090 S1: part of me that's like, I guess Kylie's got this 145 00:07:14,090 --> 00:07:16,130 S1: fan base that I count myself as part of. Like, 146 00:07:16,130 --> 00:07:18,320 S1: I really love Kylie Minogue and I will listen to 147 00:07:18,320 --> 00:07:20,720 S1: anything that she puts out, but for a younger generation 148 00:07:20,720 --> 00:07:22,910 S1: of people is kind of like, Oh, this is funny. This, 149 00:07:22,910 --> 00:07:25,250 S1: this lady who was a big pop star in the 150 00:07:25,250 --> 00:07:27,860 S1: 90s and 2000 is trying to do this techno thing. 151 00:07:27,860 --> 00:07:30,020 S1: Let's just like encourage her with it. 152 00:07:30,020 --> 00:07:32,150 S3: Yeah, it could be. But from like most of the 153 00:07:32,150 --> 00:07:37,640 S3: tiktoks I've seen, it seems very reverential. Like there's everyone's 154 00:07:37,640 --> 00:07:40,070 S3: like going a bit over the top with it, like 155 00:07:40,070 --> 00:07:42,470 S3: before Padam and to put up, Yeah. 156 00:07:42,740 --> 00:07:43,820 S2: Those memes are amazing. 157 00:07:43,970 --> 00:07:47,150 S3: They're pretty good. Yeah, they're funny. Yeah. I think, you know, 158 00:07:47,150 --> 00:07:49,400 S3: the music video is kind of campy, so I guess 159 00:07:49,400 --> 00:07:52,570 S3: she understands her audience and there's a nod to her 160 00:07:52,610 --> 00:07:55,760 S3: huge gay following that's been with her for so long. And, 161 00:07:55,760 --> 00:07:57,980 S3: you know, most of the tiktoks that kind of riffing 162 00:07:57,980 --> 00:08:01,460 S3: off the music video. So there's some playfulness there, I 163 00:08:01,460 --> 00:08:02,150 S3: think as well. 164 00:08:02,150 --> 00:08:04,340 S2: I don't know. I don't feel like this might be 165 00:08:04,340 --> 00:08:07,970 S2: really unfair, but just like a gut feeling, having followed 166 00:08:07,970 --> 00:08:09,890 S2: college career, I've never really got like a big tongue 167 00:08:09,890 --> 00:08:12,440 S2: in cheek vibe with her. She seems very earnest as 168 00:08:12,440 --> 00:08:16,460 S2: an artist. Like she seems, you know, she's the probably 169 00:08:16,460 --> 00:08:19,880 S2: the ideal like artist for a label because she just says, Yes, yeah, yeah. 170 00:08:19,970 --> 00:08:21,800 S2: I think like she's like, Yeah, I'll do that. Like 171 00:08:21,800 --> 00:08:23,990 S2: I don't reckon there's much like, Oh, this is so funny. 172 00:08:23,990 --> 00:08:25,790 S2: I'm being so like, you know, the scene in the 173 00:08:25,790 --> 00:08:28,520 S2: diner of this film clip where she's like slides the 174 00:08:28,520 --> 00:08:31,430 S2: coffee cup and she's like dressing this outrageous red thing, 175 00:08:31,430 --> 00:08:32,780 S2: like drinking a cup of coffee. Like, it's just. It's 176 00:08:32,780 --> 00:08:36,350 S2: all so, like, serious, but not I think it's Super 177 00:08:36,350 --> 00:08:38,360 S2: cam being ridiculous, but she doesn't seem to be having 178 00:08:38,360 --> 00:08:39,380 S2: as much fun with it. 179 00:08:39,380 --> 00:08:42,470 S3: Right. She does seem genuinely surprised that it's become such 180 00:08:42,470 --> 00:08:44,420 S3: a big hit as well. So it doesn't feel like 181 00:08:44,420 --> 00:08:47,630 S3: she's played or like maneuvered her way to. Yeah, it's. 182 00:08:47,630 --> 00:08:50,840 S1: Definitely landed, I think as well as a Kylie song 183 00:08:50,840 --> 00:08:54,560 S1: could have in the year 2023. Like I think the 184 00:08:54,559 --> 00:08:56,540 S1: reason why I was asking you guys these questions about 185 00:08:56,540 --> 00:08:59,599 S1: is there this level of irony? Like is it because 186 00:08:59,600 --> 00:09:03,080 S1: it's been so strategically marketed and pushed is because I'm 187 00:09:03,230 --> 00:09:05,450 S1: maybe about to get like shot or I've been accused 188 00:09:05,450 --> 00:09:07,730 S1: of homophobia by many of my friends of mistake. I don't. 189 00:09:07,730 --> 00:09:10,270 S1: I don't. Love this song like I do think like 190 00:09:10,270 --> 00:09:11,890 S1: you listen to it a bunch and it becomes catchy. 191 00:09:11,890 --> 00:09:14,290 S1: And I walked into the office this morning being like, Yeah, 192 00:09:14,290 --> 00:09:16,360 S1: I still don't love the song guys. But then I 193 00:09:16,360 --> 00:09:18,880 S1: started humming Padam Padam. So it works its way into 194 00:09:18,880 --> 00:09:20,709 S1: your brain and I think it's very good at that. 195 00:09:20,710 --> 00:09:25,840 S1: But something about the song that feels not intimacy is 196 00:09:25,840 --> 00:09:28,929 S1: not the right word because Kylie's giving this her all, 197 00:09:28,929 --> 00:09:32,500 S1: but it just does feel a little bit overly focused group. 198 00:09:32,500 --> 00:09:35,470 S1: It's like Kylie wants a new song for this new album. 199 00:09:35,470 --> 00:09:37,420 S1: What is the vibe of the moment? It needs to 200 00:09:37,420 --> 00:09:40,270 S1: be 2.5 minutes long. It needs to have the catchy 201 00:09:40,270 --> 00:09:42,130 S1: kind of bit that we can put on TikTok. It 202 00:09:42,130 --> 00:09:44,979 S1: needs to have this outrageous kind of music video. And 203 00:09:44,980 --> 00:09:48,280 S1: it I think the what I've loved about Kylie throughout 204 00:09:48,280 --> 00:09:53,020 S1: her career is her ability to make super fun, Neolithic 205 00:09:53,020 --> 00:09:56,410 S1: dance disco songs. But they have heart to them. Like 206 00:09:56,410 --> 00:09:59,020 S1: the music really does make you think about love and 207 00:09:59,020 --> 00:10:01,090 S1: life and whatever. Whereas this doesn't really make me think 208 00:10:01,090 --> 00:10:03,520 S1: about anything. And maybe that's me being out of sync 209 00:10:03,520 --> 00:10:05,350 S1: with the guys. Like, maybe people want to just go 210 00:10:05,350 --> 00:10:07,329 S1: to the clubs, do a bunch of drugs and like 211 00:10:07,330 --> 00:10:07,870 S1: dance to this. 212 00:10:07,960 --> 00:10:09,969 S2: You've aged out, man. Yeah, totally. Yeah. 213 00:10:10,420 --> 00:10:13,480 S1: It could totally be that. It's funny that Kylie's totally in. 214 00:10:13,480 --> 00:10:15,579 S1: She's got 20 years on me and I've aged out. Yeah. 215 00:10:15,760 --> 00:10:17,709 S1: All power to her. Yeah. So I put up this 216 00:10:17,710 --> 00:10:19,809 S1: thing on Instagram last night being like, I'm not really 217 00:10:19,809 --> 00:10:23,140 S1: vibing with this song. And to quote our friend Jennifer Coolidge, 218 00:10:23,230 --> 00:10:25,450 S1: the gays are trying to kill me now. They are 219 00:10:25,450 --> 00:10:28,540 S1: not impressed with that take. And the most consistent message 220 00:10:28,540 --> 00:10:32,080 S1: I got was just go to the club, do some amole, 221 00:10:32,080 --> 00:10:34,480 S1: and like you figure this out. Yeah, that seems to 222 00:10:34,480 --> 00:10:35,800 S1: be the vibe. 223 00:10:35,800 --> 00:10:38,260 S2: Well, I was going to say, I love the song. 224 00:10:38,260 --> 00:10:42,040 S2: I'm a man now. I'm here for the pandemic. But 225 00:10:42,160 --> 00:10:45,340 S2: I do think it's worth, like, I guess, a disclaimer 226 00:10:45,340 --> 00:10:47,740 S2: that we are three straight men sitting here talking about 227 00:10:47,740 --> 00:10:49,839 S2: Kylie Minogue. And like even a lot of the memes 228 00:10:49,840 --> 00:10:52,329 S2: do talk to this exact like kind of phenomenon like 229 00:10:52,330 --> 00:10:53,890 S2: I saw on this one, it was like me, a 230 00:10:53,890 --> 00:10:56,320 S2: gay man trying to explain to a straight man, and 231 00:10:56,530 --> 00:10:58,000 S2: the guy's just like holding his head in his hands. 232 00:10:58,150 --> 00:11:00,280 S2: So I think that is worth mentioning. But yeah, I 233 00:11:00,280 --> 00:11:02,740 S2: love the song. Like, I do agree with what you say. 234 00:11:02,740 --> 00:11:04,780 S2: I totally like listen to it, watch it. I'm like, 235 00:11:04,780 --> 00:11:08,620 S2: Everything's manufactured, but whatever. Like, who cares like that? People 236 00:11:08,620 --> 00:11:10,180 S2: do that and it doesn't work. And it has worked 237 00:11:10,179 --> 00:11:13,240 S2: for Kylie. I appreciate that. Maybe her like the beautiful 238 00:11:13,240 --> 00:11:15,220 S2: thing about Kylie's like kind of back catalogue is that 239 00:11:15,220 --> 00:11:16,720 S2: that wasn't as much of a thing. But fuck man, 240 00:11:16,720 --> 00:11:19,090 S2: she's like, she's been around forever. She's still doing it 241 00:11:19,090 --> 00:11:21,010 S2: and now it's working. Like, in this way, I'm happy 242 00:11:21,010 --> 00:11:21,400 S2: for her. 243 00:11:21,400 --> 00:11:24,609 S1: Yeah. And also, I mean, it's pretty extraordinary given her 244 00:11:24,610 --> 00:11:27,460 S1: age and longevity. Right? And I don't want to reduce. 245 00:11:28,059 --> 00:11:30,490 S1: There's a tendency that every time there's a woman pop 246 00:11:30,490 --> 00:11:33,430 S1: artist who reaches her 50s and has a successful song, 247 00:11:33,429 --> 00:11:35,890 S1: the entire discourse becomes around the fact that she's in 248 00:11:35,890 --> 00:11:37,900 S1: her 50s. And I don't think that should be the 249 00:11:37,900 --> 00:11:40,480 S1: focus of the convo. But it is worth acknowledging that 250 00:11:40,480 --> 00:11:43,180 S1: it's rare for a woman in her mid 50s to 251 00:11:43,179 --> 00:11:46,030 S1: release a big pop song and for it to really 252 00:11:46,030 --> 00:11:49,900 S1: land like even Madonna had her kind of dancey comeback. 253 00:11:49,900 --> 00:11:53,020 S1: She was in her 40s. This is quite unusual. And yeah, 254 00:11:53,020 --> 00:11:55,179 S1: to be clear, I'm rooting for Kylie. Like, I love 255 00:11:55,179 --> 00:11:56,920 S1: that people love this song. And I'm not trying to 256 00:11:56,920 --> 00:11:58,930 S1: tell people this song is bad and you're bad for 257 00:11:58,929 --> 00:12:02,620 S1: liking it. I think I'm just more surprised at myself normally, 258 00:12:02,620 --> 00:12:04,569 S1: Like when you like a song. Thomas When you like 259 00:12:04,570 --> 00:12:06,370 S1: a song. Rob When, like everyone in my life likes 260 00:12:06,370 --> 00:12:08,980 S1: a song, women, the gays, everyone. I'm like, Great, let's 261 00:12:08,980 --> 00:12:12,040 S1: do this. But this just hasn't landed for me and 262 00:12:12,040 --> 00:12:13,510 S1: I feel a bit weird about it. I feel kind 263 00:12:13,510 --> 00:12:14,650 S1: of disappointed in myself. 264 00:12:14,860 --> 00:12:18,970 S3: Was there a point where Kylie turned like the following? 265 00:12:18,970 --> 00:12:21,250 S3: I know she's always had like a dedicated kind of 266 00:12:21,250 --> 00:12:24,280 S3: queer following, but was there a point where the rest 267 00:12:24,280 --> 00:12:27,310 S3: of us went against the kind of cultural cringe and 268 00:12:27,309 --> 00:12:29,140 S3: kind of accepted her? Well, maybe. 269 00:12:29,140 --> 00:12:31,929 S1: That's a good opportunity to talk about like how Kylie 270 00:12:31,929 --> 00:12:35,590 S1: got from the start of her career to to Padam Padam. 271 00:12:35,590 --> 00:12:36,880 S2: Because Locomotion bro. 272 00:12:38,920 --> 00:12:41,439 S1: You mentioned like cultural cringe. I think the really interesting 273 00:12:41,440 --> 00:12:44,920 S1: thing about Kylie is as much as Australians are quite 274 00:12:44,920 --> 00:12:48,220 S1: proud of her now and desperate to own her, she 275 00:12:48,220 --> 00:12:50,860 S1: was one of these classic examples where we didn't take 276 00:12:50,860 --> 00:12:53,740 S1: her as seriously until she started to blow up, particularly 277 00:12:53,740 --> 00:12:56,350 S1: in the United Kingdom. It's really interesting looking through her 278 00:12:56,350 --> 00:13:00,820 S1: record sales over her career, her first two albums, Kylie 279 00:13:00,820 --> 00:13:03,069 S1: the self-titled, the first one, and Enjoy Yourself. That went 280 00:13:03,070 --> 00:13:04,959 S1: to number one in the UK, but they didn't go 281 00:13:04,960 --> 00:13:07,330 S1: to number one in Australia. Yeah, I think even Enjoy 282 00:13:07,330 --> 00:13:09,550 S1: Yourself was barely cracked the top ten. 283 00:13:09,580 --> 00:13:13,240 S3: Australia's kind of response to pop music. We like guitars 284 00:13:13,240 --> 00:13:13,870 S3: here right? 285 00:13:13,870 --> 00:13:17,560 S1: Exactly. And even now that we we are so people 286 00:13:17,559 --> 00:13:20,440 S1: like the Veronicas Delta, all these other artists that clearly 287 00:13:20,440 --> 00:13:24,040 S1: have been following in that kind of Kylie Mould. It 288 00:13:24,040 --> 00:13:27,220 S1: took an overseas audience to tell us, You guys did it. 289 00:13:27,220 --> 00:13:29,500 S1: You found a cool pop star for us to really 290 00:13:29,500 --> 00:13:31,719 S1: vibe with it. And she didn't get her first number 291 00:13:31,720 --> 00:13:35,199 S1: one until 2000, right when she'd been releasing music like 292 00:13:35,200 --> 00:13:39,070 S1: 13 or 14 years. She had this record, the one 293 00:13:39,070 --> 00:13:42,490 S1: just before Light Years in 2000, which went to number one, 1997. 294 00:13:42,490 --> 00:13:45,070 S1: It's called Impossible Princess. I don't know if you saw 295 00:13:45,070 --> 00:13:47,740 S1: this clip. It went viral last week. I think Keanu 296 00:13:47,740 --> 00:13:50,800 S1: Reeves and Kylie Minogue were both on the Graham Norton Show, 297 00:13:50,800 --> 00:13:53,140 S1: like talking about their lives and careers or whatever. And 298 00:13:53,140 --> 00:13:56,080 S1: I think Kylie was promoting this. Keanu was like in 299 00:13:56,080 --> 00:13:59,349 S1: Australia in the late 90s filming The Matrix, and he 300 00:13:59,350 --> 00:14:01,630 S1: talks to Kylie. He's like, Yeah, I remember listening to 301 00:14:01,630 --> 00:14:03,189 S1: your record the whole time I was here because you're 302 00:14:03,190 --> 00:14:07,450 S1: Australian and it came out like Impossible Princess and crazy. 303 00:14:07,850 --> 00:14:10,460 S1: On the idea of Keanu on the set of The Matrix. Bumping. 304 00:14:10,460 --> 00:14:14,750 S1: Bumping Impossible Princess. That album is is such an interesting 305 00:14:14,750 --> 00:14:16,610 S1: album to go back, to listen to because it was 306 00:14:16,610 --> 00:14:19,160 S1: really experimental. It was the first album I think that 307 00:14:19,160 --> 00:14:23,270 S1: Kylie co-wrote every song on, and she was really personal. 308 00:14:23,270 --> 00:14:25,610 S1: She kind of raps in some bits, she whispers in 309 00:14:25,610 --> 00:14:28,610 S1: some bits. There's like sitars and Beatle references on it. 310 00:14:44,910 --> 00:14:45,930 S4: Clever girl. 311 00:14:50,190 --> 00:14:54,150 S1: But it was this commercial and critical flop. And she 312 00:14:54,150 --> 00:14:56,820 S1: basically vowed to never do anything like that again. And 313 00:14:56,820 --> 00:14:59,250 S1: I think we're talking before, just before Thomas, about the 314 00:14:59,250 --> 00:15:01,830 S1: manufacturing or whatever. From that point on, I think she's 315 00:15:01,830 --> 00:15:04,290 S1: just like, oh, work with fun, dance, disco produces, and 316 00:15:04,290 --> 00:15:06,780 S1: I'll make great hits. And so she bounced back from 317 00:15:06,780 --> 00:15:10,260 S1: Impossible Princess with Light years and then follow that up 318 00:15:10,260 --> 00:15:12,510 S1: with Fever, which is my favorite album. And I was. 319 00:15:12,510 --> 00:15:15,780 S2: Going to say, like, they're my two favorite albums and like, absolutely, 320 00:15:15,780 --> 00:15:18,870 S2: like heaving with bangers, but like, what? What a two 321 00:15:18,870 --> 00:15:20,070 S2: year period for Kylie. Seriously? 322 00:15:20,070 --> 00:15:22,800 S1: 2000. So 2000 light years you've got spinning around. And 323 00:15:22,800 --> 00:15:25,110 S1: on a night like this, two of the best pop 324 00:15:25,110 --> 00:15:25,860 S1: songs ever. 325 00:15:26,520 --> 00:15:33,300 UU: Known You for my life is I Want to Stay Forever. 326 00:15:38,140 --> 00:15:42,910 UU: To sort of be together on a night like this. 327 00:15:44,680 --> 00:15:46,630 S1: A year later, she releases fever. Both of these are 328 00:15:46,630 --> 00:15:48,760 S1: kind of very disco heavy records. Let me tell you, 329 00:15:48,760 --> 00:15:50,920 S1: the songs that are on Fever on this one record, 330 00:15:50,920 --> 00:15:53,320 S1: Love at First Sight Can't Get You Out of My Head. 331 00:15:53,320 --> 00:15:55,900 S1: Fever Come into my world in your eyes. 332 00:15:56,230 --> 00:16:01,560 UU: To see my shoes can't be good What you do 333 00:16:01,570 --> 00:16:09,740 UU: a fever take home. Can help me to start to feel. 334 00:16:14,450 --> 00:16:16,340 S1: That's like half a dozen of the best pop songs 335 00:16:16,340 --> 00:16:16,780 S1: ever written. 336 00:16:16,790 --> 00:16:18,440 S3: Was this the album that kind of broke her in 337 00:16:18,440 --> 00:16:19,060 S3: the US? 338 00:16:19,260 --> 00:16:21,920 S1: She got like five Grammy nominations. Biggest album. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 339 00:16:21,980 --> 00:16:24,620 S2: The whole thing is just like so fresh summer vibes 340 00:16:24,620 --> 00:16:27,680 S2: for 2000. All of those songs should have been on there. 341 00:16:27,680 --> 00:16:29,420 S2: I'm sure half of them were. But yeah, like it's 342 00:16:29,420 --> 00:16:31,940 S2: an incredible two year period. And like and also, I 343 00:16:31,940 --> 00:16:33,690 S2: think it was kids in the mix as well. Kids 344 00:16:33,690 --> 00:16:34,310 S2: was on Kittles. 345 00:16:34,310 --> 00:16:34,970 S1: On Favre, I think. 346 00:16:35,240 --> 00:16:38,270 S2: Yeah, that's a, you know, that's a huge song and 347 00:16:38,570 --> 00:16:40,489 S2: I always find it funny how, you know, like I 348 00:16:40,490 --> 00:16:42,860 S2: even think with Padam Padam, it's like number 12 in 349 00:16:42,860 --> 00:16:44,600 S2: the UK right now on the charts, whereas what is 350 00:16:44,600 --> 00:16:46,160 S2: it in Australia like in the 30s in the. 351 00:16:46,160 --> 00:16:46,940 S1: 30s Yeah, yeah. 352 00:16:46,940 --> 00:16:49,310 S2: Yeah, yeah. Like obviously, you know, and then it's always 353 00:16:49,310 --> 00:16:52,280 S2: been like the UK champions who we kind of respond 354 00:16:52,280 --> 00:16:54,050 S2: to that. And then the US is like never really 355 00:16:54,050 --> 00:16:55,430 S2: known what to do with Kylie. 356 00:16:55,430 --> 00:16:57,380 S1: Yeah, this is one of the first times she's charted 357 00:16:57,380 --> 00:17:00,290 S1: significantly in the US on the, on the dance charts. 358 00:17:00,290 --> 00:17:02,810 S1: Like she's, I think maybe even in the top ten 359 00:17:02,810 --> 00:17:05,690 S1: for the, the Billboard dance charts, which is, I think, 360 00:17:05,690 --> 00:17:08,240 S1: the TikTok effect. I think that's how Americans are really 361 00:17:08,240 --> 00:17:08,860 S1: finding her. 362 00:17:08,869 --> 00:17:11,959 S3: Yeah, well, I saw she performed at she performed on 363 00:17:11,960 --> 00:17:14,630 S3: American Idol or something. So I don't know if there's 364 00:17:14,630 --> 00:17:17,900 S3: a strategic push for the US market with this one or. 365 00:17:17,900 --> 00:17:19,550 S1: I think so. And I think that's part of this 366 00:17:19,550 --> 00:17:22,940 S1: as well. Like the song is good and it's clearly 367 00:17:22,940 --> 00:17:25,340 S1: of the now in terms of how it sounds, but 368 00:17:25,340 --> 00:17:27,590 S1: the marketing has been excellent and I'm not trying to 369 00:17:27,590 --> 00:17:29,540 S1: say that to detract from her. I think it's just 370 00:17:29,540 --> 00:17:33,020 S1: always worth talking about how a hit is made and 371 00:17:33,020 --> 00:17:35,690 S1: it does rely on the actual product being good. But 372 00:17:35,690 --> 00:17:39,770 S1: this song single rollout I think is like a masterclass 373 00:17:39,770 --> 00:17:42,590 S1: in how you do it and how you have mainstream 374 00:17:42,590 --> 00:17:45,379 S1: TV channels plugging you. You do the radio tour in 375 00:17:45,380 --> 00:17:47,419 S1: the UK, which is still such a big factor there, 376 00:17:47,420 --> 00:17:50,690 S1: and you are engaged with TikTok and I think her 377 00:17:50,690 --> 00:17:52,790 S1: work on it like she's working hard on all of 378 00:17:52,790 --> 00:17:55,520 S1: these channels. It's a really interesting anatomy of like how 379 00:17:55,520 --> 00:17:58,219 S1: to make a song really successful. Yeah. And I was 380 00:17:58,220 --> 00:18:00,950 S1: going to say, just going back to the discussion of 381 00:18:00,950 --> 00:18:05,090 S1: her earlier career, we're talking about is this reinvention of 382 00:18:05,090 --> 00:18:07,580 S1: Kylie and how she's found a new sound. But she's 383 00:18:07,580 --> 00:18:11,840 S1: done this like consistently, like those disco records were a reinvention. Again, 384 00:18:11,840 --> 00:18:14,300 S1: we take it for granted now because that's the Kylie sound. 385 00:18:14,300 --> 00:18:16,700 S1: Those are the biggest hits. But she found that that 386 00:18:16,700 --> 00:18:20,240 S1: wasn't what she'd done before. And then after that kind 387 00:18:20,240 --> 00:18:22,310 S1: of like fever era, she had a lot of, I 388 00:18:22,310 --> 00:18:25,370 S1: think mid albums, body language and X, not that good. 389 00:18:25,859 --> 00:18:29,310 S1: But in 2018, she released Golden, which is like a 390 00:18:29,310 --> 00:18:32,609 S1: country record. And that was really at the peak of 391 00:18:32,609 --> 00:18:36,660 S1: the kind of country renaissance that has a song dancing, 392 00:18:36,660 --> 00:18:38,010 S1: which is the lead single of that, which I think 393 00:18:38,010 --> 00:18:39,240 S1: is an absolute banger. 394 00:18:39,869 --> 00:18:50,790 UU: When I go. Go out. I want to go up. 395 00:18:53,250 --> 00:18:57,030 S1: And I wonder whether some of my pushback to Padam 396 00:18:57,030 --> 00:18:59,489 S1: padam is all these people being like Kylie's back and 397 00:18:59,490 --> 00:19:01,830 S1: she's found her sound and, you know, she's she's she's 398 00:19:01,830 --> 00:19:04,840 S1: figured out what the kids like. I'm like, she did 399 00:19:04,840 --> 00:19:06,340 S1: that with she did that with dancing, you know, like 400 00:19:06,340 --> 00:19:08,230 S1: she's been doing this stuff. And I guess it didn't 401 00:19:08,230 --> 00:19:11,379 S1: quite connect. It didn't shot the way that has. But 402 00:19:11,380 --> 00:19:14,199 S1: I think she deserves her dues as someone who for 403 00:19:14,200 --> 00:19:17,470 S1: her entire career she's released 14 albums and has tried 404 00:19:17,470 --> 00:19:20,290 S1: so hard to meet the zeitgeist, which each of them 405 00:19:20,470 --> 00:19:23,170 S1: and maybe other than Madonna and even Madonna, I don't 406 00:19:23,170 --> 00:19:25,449 S1: think has really had the success colleagues had lately. Rob, 407 00:19:25,450 --> 00:19:26,919 S1: You kind of know more of this stuff than me. 408 00:19:26,920 --> 00:19:29,680 S1: Is there anyone who's done this as effectively as Kylie? 409 00:19:29,680 --> 00:19:31,930 S3: No, and I think Madonna is an interesting kind of 410 00:19:31,930 --> 00:19:37,800 S3: comparison because. Young people seem to hate Madonna for some reason. Yeah, 411 00:19:37,800 --> 00:19:41,820 S3: that's interesting. Where is Kylie is somehow kind of, you know, 412 00:19:42,420 --> 00:19:46,740 S3: scraped through with a bit of affection. Yeah, I don't. 413 00:19:46,740 --> 00:19:48,119 S3: I don't know what the reason is for that. I 414 00:19:48,119 --> 00:19:52,679 S3: guess Madonna hasn't really been releasing music either, but there's 415 00:19:52,680 --> 00:19:56,770 S3: a bit of maybe sympathy for Kylie or like, people 416 00:19:56,820 --> 00:20:00,090 S3: do want to see her, you know, succeed and do well. 417 00:20:00,180 --> 00:20:02,280 S1: Yeah, she's more relatable. Like, what do you think? Why 418 00:20:02,280 --> 00:20:04,300 S1: do younger people seem to vibe with Kylie? 419 00:20:04,320 --> 00:20:06,300 S2: Yeah, I think I think there is something to be 420 00:20:06,300 --> 00:20:10,260 S2: said that, like Madonna, just generally as a celebrity, is 421 00:20:10,260 --> 00:20:14,879 S2: that more polarizing? Kylie It sounds like so cliche and 422 00:20:14,880 --> 00:20:17,250 S2: to take it all the way back. But like, you know, 423 00:20:17,250 --> 00:20:19,320 S2: she's always been framed as like the girl next door, 424 00:20:19,320 --> 00:20:21,899 S2: like from, you know, she was Charlene from Neighbours. She 425 00:20:21,900 --> 00:20:24,450 S2: was like, you know, the ultimate, like, kind of like 426 00:20:24,450 --> 00:20:27,870 S2: global idea of a cute Australian, you know, your next 427 00:20:27,869 --> 00:20:30,990 S2: door neighbour who's just like this little pocket rocket type thing. 428 00:20:30,990 --> 00:20:32,850 S2: And like that does feel reductive, but I think that 429 00:20:32,850 --> 00:20:34,890 S2: is an element of that. Like she's so. 430 00:20:34,890 --> 00:20:38,639 S1: But Madonna was this completely like created spectacle that you 431 00:20:38,640 --> 00:20:39,389 S1: couldn't get close. 432 00:20:39,390 --> 00:20:42,060 S2: To. Yeah. And almost like, you know, this like mythical 433 00:20:42,060 --> 00:20:44,790 S2: thing and she is polarizing and you can really love 434 00:20:44,790 --> 00:20:46,199 S2: her or you can really hate it. Whereas like Kylie, 435 00:20:46,200 --> 00:20:49,320 S2: everyone just feels like, oh, about like, people obviously really 436 00:20:49,320 --> 00:20:51,840 S2: love Kylie, but like, no one really hates her. And 437 00:20:51,840 --> 00:20:54,780 S2: that's like an important thing, I think, in staying power. 438 00:20:54,780 --> 00:20:56,340 S2: And then in terms of, yeah, like in terms of, 439 00:20:56,340 --> 00:20:58,920 S2: I guess relating to people like I do think that, 440 00:20:58,920 --> 00:21:03,240 S2: you know, it's important that she's had this kind of global, 441 00:21:03,240 --> 00:21:06,480 S2: you know, beloved queer fan base who have, you know, 442 00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:09,030 S2: like just embrace her so much and, you know, like 443 00:21:09,030 --> 00:21:11,460 S2: she plays, you know, she played Mardi Gras this year. 444 00:21:11,460 --> 00:21:14,250 S2: She's done loads of times before. Like she's been so 445 00:21:14,250 --> 00:21:17,220 S2: involved in Pride month. And then I guess that has 446 00:21:17,220 --> 00:21:20,730 S2: like the Venn diagram crossover of like that audience. And 447 00:21:20,730 --> 00:21:23,730 S2: then like viral TikTok users is probably pretty big and 448 00:21:23,730 --> 00:21:25,560 S2: it's all kind of like fed into this weird moment. 449 00:21:25,560 --> 00:21:27,510 S2: And like every interview, like I saw her talking to 450 00:21:27,540 --> 00:21:29,389 S2: hits radio and she was kind of like, Oh, I 451 00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:31,770 S2: just like she is so surprised, which again, I think 452 00:21:31,770 --> 00:21:34,290 S2: adds to her likability. Like none of this is feels 453 00:21:34,290 --> 00:21:36,330 S2: like Kylie is part of her grand plan, even though 454 00:21:36,330 --> 00:21:37,500 S2: it probably really is. Yeah. 455 00:21:37,500 --> 00:21:39,150 S1: Yeah. The likability is a big factor. 456 00:21:39,180 --> 00:21:43,500 S3: Yeah. She performed at World Pride this year, right? Like, right. 457 00:21:43,500 --> 00:21:43,860 S3: I know. 458 00:21:43,859 --> 00:21:46,810 S2: She Instagram was just like everyone was there. Like, you played. 459 00:21:46,830 --> 00:21:47,520 S1: Like two songs. 460 00:21:47,520 --> 00:21:50,910 S3: Right? She was right after Charli. Right. Who has shown, like, 461 00:21:50,910 --> 00:21:54,840 S3: kind of reverence for Kylie as a pop figurehead. And 462 00:21:54,840 --> 00:21:59,310 S3: I remember feeling like I'm not really a huge Kylie fan. Like, 463 00:21:59,310 --> 00:22:01,650 S3: I don't I don't remember the last album I listened 464 00:22:01,650 --> 00:22:05,790 S3: to completely from like through from Kylie. But when she 465 00:22:05,790 --> 00:22:09,540 S3: came on off to colleagues like you felt like pride, right? Like, 466 00:22:09,660 --> 00:22:11,639 S3: this is one of this is our popstar, this is 467 00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:12,270 S3: our Madonna. 468 00:22:12,270 --> 00:22:15,660 S1: Absolutely. And people who I didn't know loved Kylie Minogue, like, 469 00:22:15,660 --> 00:22:18,149 S1: went there and like bought tickets. They just felt like 470 00:22:18,150 --> 00:22:21,149 S1: this is incredible. I and Australia, I guess is a 471 00:22:21,150 --> 00:22:23,670 S1: unique kind of ownership and pride. And even if it 472 00:22:23,670 --> 00:22:27,210 S1: took a while for boring Australians in the 80s to respect, 473 00:22:27,210 --> 00:22:29,760 S1: you know, how good she was for our generation, I 474 00:22:29,760 --> 00:22:33,300 S1: think like growing up with those albums, like the Fever era, 475 00:22:33,540 --> 00:22:36,300 S1: she's just we have respected her. Like I remember watching 476 00:22:36,300 --> 00:22:39,270 S1: video hits, right, and like spinning around and slow and stuff. 477 00:22:39,270 --> 00:22:40,889 S2: But I think that was the era for me. Like, 478 00:22:40,890 --> 00:22:42,869 S2: obviously it's all, you know, relatable to when you're growing up. 479 00:22:42,869 --> 00:22:45,000 S2: But like, that was when she went from being like, Oh, 480 00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:48,270 S2: Kylie Minogue, famous in Australia, kind of famous overseas to 481 00:22:48,270 --> 00:22:50,550 S2: being like, Oh my God, Kylie Minogue is like a genuine, 482 00:22:50,550 --> 00:22:54,060 S2: like global pop star like that, that 2000, 2001, 2003 483 00:22:54,060 --> 00:22:57,180 S2: era she really like cemented herself. We were talking about before, 484 00:22:57,180 --> 00:22:59,159 S2: just like off air, like the Brit Awards when she 485 00:22:59,160 --> 00:23:01,500 S2: performed with Justin Timberlake. And she like she was the 486 00:23:01,500 --> 00:23:03,960 S2: special guest, she blew him out of the water and like, yeah, 487 00:23:03,960 --> 00:23:06,300 S2: she she really kind of like crossed over in that 488 00:23:06,300 --> 00:23:09,419 S2: era and then has continued to reinvent herself. But yeah, 489 00:23:09,420 --> 00:23:11,609 S2: I guess I guess I'm kind of surprised at the 490 00:23:11,609 --> 00:23:15,480 S2: fact that she still manages to draw attention like this. 491 00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:18,180 S2: Like you've got, you know, like the cut in New 492 00:23:18,180 --> 00:23:20,040 S2: York writing about her and Vulture and like I'm like 493 00:23:20,040 --> 00:23:21,810 S2: it still kind of does like shock me a bit 494 00:23:21,810 --> 00:23:23,179 S2: when I see them writing my column tonight. 495 00:23:23,550 --> 00:23:25,830 S1: Yeah. And I got to say again, like, I don't 496 00:23:25,830 --> 00:23:28,020 S1: people got really mad at me for saying I didn't 497 00:23:28,020 --> 00:23:29,850 S1: like this song. And they're like, How can you, like, 498 00:23:29,850 --> 00:23:32,250 S1: not support Kylie? She's so great and America's getting around her. 499 00:23:32,820 --> 00:23:35,220 S1: I love her. I love her more than almost anyone else. 500 00:23:35,220 --> 00:23:38,730 S1: Like I promise you, I am interested to see what 501 00:23:38,730 --> 00:23:40,300 S1: the rest of the album is like. Like, I think 502 00:23:40,590 --> 00:23:44,100 S1: this track has gotten me interested for it. And sometimes, 503 00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:47,040 S1: you know, she sometimes released late singles that sound nothing 504 00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:49,530 S1: like the album, and sometimes the album. Like this album 505 00:23:49,530 --> 00:23:52,830 S1: could be a techno electro synth thing. It could be 506 00:23:52,830 --> 00:23:55,470 S1: a bunch of different stuff, like Rob, do you have 507 00:23:55,619 --> 00:23:58,350 S1: a sense of what you're hoping from this album after 508 00:23:58,350 --> 00:23:59,670 S1: hearing this, this lead single? 509 00:23:59,820 --> 00:24:03,210 S3: I mean, the first single, and it's like a proper hard, 510 00:24:03,210 --> 00:24:06,959 S3: like electro thump to it. So I'm expecting like a 511 00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:09,330 S3: kind of dance record, but like, I'm a bit older 512 00:24:09,330 --> 00:24:13,470 S3: than you guys. A little bit. I remember like, her 513 00:24:13,470 --> 00:24:17,670 S3: weird era, like kind of confiding me like mid 90s. 514 00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:21,900 S3: I think it was like self-titled. Yeah. 1994 or something. Yeah. 515 00:24:22,260 --> 00:24:25,409 S3: Put yourself in my place. Like, these are like great 516 00:24:25,410 --> 00:24:28,590 S3: songs that don't have that kind of dance aspect to it. 517 00:24:28,590 --> 00:24:31,590 S3: That she did quite well too, but it was her, 518 00:24:31,590 --> 00:24:34,900 S3: maybe her period of reaction. In against that kind of 519 00:24:34,900 --> 00:24:38,530 S3: pop machine. And I think you mentioned that they didn't 520 00:24:38,530 --> 00:24:41,679 S3: really do that well, like globally. So she kind of 521 00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:46,119 S3: went back to pop phase. But like, I'm interested to 522 00:24:46,119 --> 00:24:48,040 S3: see what this new album goes. Like I said, I 523 00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:50,590 S3: haven't really listened to a Kylie album in the meantime, 524 00:24:50,800 --> 00:24:51,540 S3: that country. 525 00:24:51,550 --> 00:24:52,230 S1: Are you interested now? 526 00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:54,880 S3: Do you think I'm interested after the the reaction that 527 00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:58,359 S3: this song has got, if it can carry through to the, the, 528 00:24:58,390 --> 00:24:59,709 S3: you know, the full release? 529 00:24:59,710 --> 00:25:02,439 S1: Yeah. I'd be curious if she dabbles in house. You 530 00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:05,080 S1: know we've been talking about the house revival. Yeah Beyonce 531 00:25:05,109 --> 00:25:05,800 S1: Drake Well I was. 532 00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:07,990 S2: Going to say like do you reckon like obviously there 533 00:25:07,990 --> 00:25:09,880 S2: was that big era where Beyonce and Drake released like, 534 00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:11,919 S2: you know, last year, their two records, and everyone was like, 535 00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:13,690 S2: Oh my God. It's like heralding the return of house 536 00:25:13,690 --> 00:25:15,820 S2: and stuff. Like, do you reckon Kylie was holed up 537 00:25:15,820 --> 00:25:20,379 S2: in like errands or whatever, banging those albums, being like, okay, 538 00:25:20,380 --> 00:25:22,060 S2: this is like, this is it for me. This is 539 00:25:22,060 --> 00:25:23,740 S2: my next like, this is the new Gen. 540 00:25:23,740 --> 00:25:26,540 S3: Kylie She'd be like, I've done this sound. This is me. Yeah, 541 00:25:26,650 --> 00:25:28,240 S3: it's my turn again. Well, I. 542 00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:30,489 S1: Am interested to hear it for that exact reason. Like, 543 00:25:30,490 --> 00:25:33,130 S1: I love to listen to what artists have been listening 544 00:25:33,130 --> 00:25:35,229 S1: to themselves, and I think it'd be so interesting to 545 00:25:35,230 --> 00:25:38,710 S1: see if there are any references or nods to that way. 546 00:25:38,710 --> 00:25:41,560 S3: Well, I was talking about her weird period. That 1994 547 00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:45,250 S3: album had like a Frankie Knuckles kind of proper Chicago 548 00:25:45,250 --> 00:25:47,170 S3: House song on it. And she had like, Pet Shop 549 00:25:47,170 --> 00:25:49,120 S3: Boys writing songs for her. Yeah, Yeah, that's right. So 550 00:25:49,119 --> 00:25:49,810 S3: it's like she. 551 00:25:49,810 --> 00:25:50,290 S1: Also released. 552 00:25:50,650 --> 00:25:52,480 S3: That thread, I guess, throughout her career. 553 00:25:52,690 --> 00:25:55,930 S1: She also released two EP's collaborating with Giorgio Moroder, who's 554 00:25:55,930 --> 00:25:58,330 S1: like one of my favorite artists of all time, Italian 555 00:25:58,330 --> 00:26:02,350 S1: disco guy. Yeah, and they're really good. So her range 556 00:26:02,350 --> 00:26:05,530 S1: is amazing and the fact that she's willing to just 557 00:26:05,530 --> 00:26:08,530 S1: dabble in every genre I think is pretty extraordinary. 558 00:26:09,070 --> 00:26:10,750 S2: Have you guys both watched the video? 559 00:26:10,780 --> 00:26:11,650 S3: Yeah. Yeah. 560 00:26:11,650 --> 00:26:12,430 S2: Did you like it? 561 00:26:12,580 --> 00:26:14,500 S1: I liked it. It made me feel more excited and 562 00:26:14,500 --> 00:26:16,300 S1: energized about the song than just listening to it on 563 00:26:16,300 --> 00:26:16,660 S1: a song. 564 00:26:16,660 --> 00:26:19,120 S3: Yeah, When she was in the diner, I was like, Hey, 565 00:26:19,119 --> 00:26:22,000 S3: that's Pop's Diner from Riverdale. Yeah, that was my little 566 00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:23,139 S3: Riverdale reference. 567 00:26:23,530 --> 00:26:25,540 S2: There's a fun fact for this week. Yeah, I agree. 568 00:26:25,540 --> 00:26:26,949 S2: Maybe like that song more. And again, I don't know 569 00:26:26,950 --> 00:26:28,990 S2: if it's because it's like just a moment in time 570 00:26:28,990 --> 00:26:31,360 S2: frozen in my mind, but like, you know, she kind 571 00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:32,740 S2: of came up in that era when you would watch 572 00:26:32,740 --> 00:26:34,959 S2: like rage and video hits and the video clip was 573 00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:38,440 S2: a massive part of like the kind of release landscape. 574 00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:40,239 S2: And it felt like one of those things, like it's 575 00:26:40,240 --> 00:26:43,070 S2: got all the choreography. It's got like three different, like 576 00:26:43,090 --> 00:26:45,940 S2: kind of plot points in the video. And yeah, like 577 00:26:45,940 --> 00:26:47,420 S2: it got me more. I've watched it like 3 or 578 00:26:47,420 --> 00:26:48,400 S2: 4 times now. 579 00:26:48,520 --> 00:26:50,320 S1: It really did feel like a throwback to that era. 580 00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:50,800 S2: Yeah. 581 00:26:51,220 --> 00:26:54,700 S1: Speaking of music videos, Tom, it's actually a great opportunity 582 00:26:54,700 --> 00:26:57,520 S1: to segue into the other thing I want to talk 583 00:26:57,520 --> 00:27:01,030 S1: to you guys about, which is episode two of The Idol, 584 00:27:01,030 --> 00:27:03,400 S1: which aired this week. And in fact, Kylie on TikTok 585 00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:07,030 S1: did release this behind the scenes clip of her filming 586 00:27:07,030 --> 00:27:08,530 S1: the music video where she's on a stage with a 587 00:27:08,530 --> 00:27:11,350 S1: bunch of backup dancers and she's in the middle, kind 588 00:27:11,350 --> 00:27:14,250 S1: of counting down one, two, three, four. And the backup dancers, 589 00:27:14,270 --> 00:27:15,939 S1: she's doing a bunch of different takes. And I'm like, 590 00:27:15,940 --> 00:27:18,970 S1: this is almost like shot for shot. The first half 591 00:27:18,970 --> 00:27:19,750 S1: of this episode of The. 592 00:27:19,930 --> 00:27:21,280 S3: Nervous Breakdown in the middle of it. 593 00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:22,330 S1: Kylie's a pro. 594 00:27:22,330 --> 00:27:22,840 S5: She's no joke. 595 00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:25,750 S1: And I was like, What's so interesting that we're going 596 00:27:25,750 --> 00:27:28,600 S1: to be talking about Kylie and the manufacturing of pop 597 00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:32,199 S1: music and reinventing herself and putting out music videos. And 598 00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:35,469 S1: that was the focus for at least the good part 599 00:27:35,650 --> 00:27:38,530 S1: of the episode that we just watched of the Idol. 600 00:27:40,970 --> 00:27:42,230 S6: So last night. 601 00:27:43,560 --> 00:27:44,370 S7: I took World. 602 00:27:44,369 --> 00:27:46,590 S6: Class Center and redid it. 603 00:27:49,060 --> 00:27:50,410 S8: I mean, it's not happening. 604 00:27:50,530 --> 00:27:53,440 S9: It's not. You know, it was awful. I think it's cool. 605 00:27:53,500 --> 00:27:56,020 S9: It's I like all the breathing in it. I don't. 606 00:27:56,020 --> 00:27:56,950 S10: Like it. 607 00:27:57,070 --> 00:27:59,830 S1: Thomas Last week we spoke about this show and we 608 00:27:59,830 --> 00:28:02,020 S1: said two things. I think one thing we agreed on 609 00:28:02,020 --> 00:28:04,659 S1: was we didn't love the show, but he also said 610 00:28:04,660 --> 00:28:07,330 S1: that there is like a there's something interesting here. Like 611 00:28:07,330 --> 00:28:10,030 S1: there is half the show that is trying to burst 612 00:28:10,030 --> 00:28:14,919 S1: free from the weekends dominating weird sex stuff. And that 613 00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:17,710 S1: is pretty interesting. That is the interrogation of pop music 614 00:28:17,710 --> 00:28:21,100 S1: and particularly what a young woman artist who's going through 615 00:28:21,100 --> 00:28:24,940 S1: some trauma is being expected to do. I found that 616 00:28:24,940 --> 00:28:27,790 S1: to be a pretty interesting part of this episode and 617 00:28:27,790 --> 00:28:29,350 S1: would have loved more of it. How did you feel 618 00:28:29,350 --> 00:28:30,189 S1: about episode two? 619 00:28:30,220 --> 00:28:33,250 S2: Yeah, it was similar to last week. Like it's it's 620 00:28:33,250 --> 00:28:36,040 S2: like there's still the soul of a good show getting 621 00:28:36,040 --> 00:28:38,709 S2: kind of like drowned out by the weekend's like corniness 622 00:28:38,710 --> 00:28:41,320 S2: or whatever. And each episode we're getting like less and 623 00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:43,000 S2: less of the good show as he just gets like 624 00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:45,820 S2: hornier and horny or something. But yeah, it was like that, 625 00:28:45,970 --> 00:28:48,340 S2: you know, this week kind of focused on her. The 626 00:28:48,340 --> 00:28:50,200 S2: first part anyway, on Jocelyn, kind of like filming this 627 00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:53,230 S2: video clip, and she is rallying against the song. She's, 628 00:28:53,230 --> 00:28:55,990 S2: you know, reworked the big, you know, hit that they've 629 00:28:55,990 --> 00:28:58,480 S2: made for her. The label has spent millions of dollars 630 00:28:58,480 --> 00:29:01,150 S2: bringing the best songwriters in the world. And she starts 631 00:29:01,150 --> 00:29:03,520 S2: to think, oh, no, this is not really me. And 632 00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:05,320 S2: she kind of abandons that anyway and then decides to 633 00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:08,320 S2: film the video clip and kind of has a breakdown, which, 634 00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:10,240 S2: you know, we kind of spoke about off air again, like, 635 00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:12,880 S2: you know, it is interesting to watch because it's something 636 00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:15,460 S2: Kylie would never have done because she is such a pro. Like, 637 00:29:15,460 --> 00:29:16,810 S2: you know, she seems like the type of person that 638 00:29:16,810 --> 00:29:19,040 S2: the label would love because she just is, you know, 639 00:29:19,090 --> 00:29:19,719 S2: happy for it all. 640 00:29:19,900 --> 00:29:22,090 S1: Yeah. And these like these gen-z millennials, they don't have 641 00:29:22,090 --> 00:29:22,840 S1: a work ethic. 642 00:29:22,840 --> 00:29:23,530 S5: That's right, man. 643 00:29:23,530 --> 00:29:25,480 S1: Yeah. Oh, my feet are bleeding in my heels. I 644 00:29:25,490 --> 00:29:26,140 S1: got to stop. 645 00:29:26,140 --> 00:29:27,810 S2: You're really just waiting for those DMS to get you. 646 00:29:27,860 --> 00:29:28,720 S5: You're taking on everybody. 647 00:29:29,380 --> 00:29:31,720 S2: But yeah, that was really interesting because you've got this 648 00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:34,990 S2: artist who is, you know, the center of this entire 649 00:29:34,990 --> 00:29:38,920 S2: economic landscape and ecosystem for this label, and she's going 650 00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:41,770 S2: through a moment and everyone is stressing about her. And 651 00:29:41,770 --> 00:29:43,330 S2: that was real interesting like the back and forth that 652 00:29:43,330 --> 00:29:45,340 S2: she's doing take after take to get it right. The 653 00:29:45,340 --> 00:29:48,370 S2: director slowly, you know, dropping her cool and calm facade 654 00:29:48,370 --> 00:29:50,650 S2: and getting more frustrated. And the label had played by 655 00:29:50,650 --> 00:29:53,230 S2: Jane Adams, who's probably the best thing about the show 656 00:29:53,770 --> 00:29:57,340 S2: is essentially like in real time, almost like shutting down 657 00:29:57,340 --> 00:30:00,430 S2: the Jocelyn income stream and shifting gears to someone else. 658 00:30:00,430 --> 00:30:03,070 S2: That was all really interesting. And you know, you end 659 00:30:03,070 --> 00:30:05,410 S2: up with Jocelyn like basically having a bit of a 660 00:30:05,410 --> 00:30:07,990 S2: breakdown and you know, we see the literal effects of 661 00:30:07,990 --> 00:30:10,360 S2: that like a bleeding feet and it's, you know, I 662 00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:12,270 S2: was like, oh, this is the, this is the like 663 00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:16,150 S2: nugget of good show in the idol. And then like 664 00:30:16,150 --> 00:30:19,900 S2: we go back to Tedros, the world's most unsexy man, 665 00:30:20,830 --> 00:30:22,570 S2: and everything kind of goes to shit. 666 00:30:22,570 --> 00:30:25,180 S1: Yeah, yeah. Rob I haven't had the chance to talk 667 00:30:25,180 --> 00:30:27,070 S1: to you on this podcast about the idol. You've seen 668 00:30:27,070 --> 00:30:29,979 S1: the first two episodes. Yeah. What's your, what's your overall 669 00:30:29,980 --> 00:30:31,990 S1: take on the show and how did you feel about 670 00:30:31,990 --> 00:30:32,530 S1: the second episode? 671 00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:35,920 S3: What Thomas said is exactly right. This second episode, first 672 00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:40,540 S3: ten minutes of it, weird ice masturbation, that kind of scene. 673 00:30:40,540 --> 00:30:41,740 S3: You're like, All right. Yeah, straight. 674 00:30:41,740 --> 00:30:43,660 S1: Away. You ever heard your own music and gotten so 675 00:30:43,660 --> 00:30:45,400 S1: excited I had to reach for a whiskey. 676 00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:48,700 S3: Glass straight away. You kind of roll your eyes, then 677 00:30:48,700 --> 00:30:50,920 S3: you had like 20 solid minutes of that behind the 678 00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:53,770 S3: scenes kind of industry machine thing, which is it's almost 679 00:30:53,770 --> 00:30:56,440 S3: like watching Veep or The Thick of It, one of 680 00:30:56,440 --> 00:30:59,410 S3: those shows. But about the pop industry, it's like it's 681 00:30:59,410 --> 00:31:02,500 S3: super interesting and the kind of, you know, the interplay 682 00:31:02,500 --> 00:31:05,830 S3: between all the kind of peripheral characters is probably the 683 00:31:05,830 --> 00:31:09,040 S3: best part of the show. So you had that 20 minutes, 684 00:31:09,040 --> 00:31:12,850 S3: last 15 minutes of the show. Horrible. Horrible. Some of 685 00:31:12,850 --> 00:31:16,330 S3: the worst TV that you could ever imagine. Like, it's 686 00:31:16,330 --> 00:31:18,160 S3: literally it was literally like porn, right? 687 00:31:18,190 --> 00:31:21,040 S1: Yeah, It felt like a like a music video style. 688 00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:23,590 S1: Like it's all very, like stylish in terms of the 689 00:31:23,590 --> 00:31:28,370 S1: shots and the lighting and the edits. And then just like. Porn. 690 00:31:28,780 --> 00:31:32,020 S3: A lot of nods to kind of 90s erotic thrillers 691 00:31:32,020 --> 00:31:34,780 S3: Like whenever whenever Tedros pops up you get kind of 692 00:31:34,780 --> 00:31:38,860 S3: that Drini soundtrack like score in the background. 693 00:31:38,860 --> 00:31:41,620 S1: And we know that because they literally showed us Basic 694 00:31:41,620 --> 00:31:43,840 S1: Instinct in episode one. It's like they are not being 695 00:31:43,840 --> 00:31:46,360 S1: subtle about what they're doing. In case you weren't sure, 696 00:31:46,360 --> 00:31:49,960 S1: this is a erotic thriller inspired by Basic Instinct. Let's 697 00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:52,090 S1: just talk about Basic Instinct for a bit. 698 00:31:52,090 --> 00:31:53,260 S3: This is what we're doing, guys. 699 00:31:53,410 --> 00:31:55,690 S1: I thought also that in that sort of 20 minute 700 00:31:55,690 --> 00:32:00,160 S1: stretch you're talking about, those interactions were both insightful and 701 00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:02,500 S1: I think kind of funny. Like I think Rachel Sennett, 702 00:32:02,500 --> 00:32:05,140 S1: who plays her kind of best friend and assistant, is 703 00:32:05,140 --> 00:32:07,930 S1: really funny. Like, she's great in bodies, bodies, bodies in 704 00:32:07,930 --> 00:32:10,570 S1: this movie Shiva Baby, she's really funny. Actress And the 705 00:32:10,570 --> 00:32:14,110 S1: interaction between her and Hank Azaria's character, Hime, who's like 706 00:32:14,110 --> 00:32:14,920 S1: her manager. 707 00:32:15,130 --> 00:32:18,060 S3: Hank Azaria, doing accents again. Yeah. Yeah. 708 00:32:18,340 --> 00:32:19,330 S2: Learn your lesson, man. Yeah. 709 00:32:20,860 --> 00:32:23,350 S1: When he's sort of asking her what she knows about Tedros. 710 00:32:23,350 --> 00:32:28,630 S1: Tedros and she's like, he's a person of color. Holy shit. 711 00:32:28,630 --> 00:32:30,910 S1: He was, like, really funny. Yeah. And it just made 712 00:32:30,910 --> 00:32:32,950 S1: me a little bit more sad when we got away 713 00:32:32,950 --> 00:32:34,000 S1: from that dynamic. 714 00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:34,990 S3: Yeah, exactly. 715 00:32:35,260 --> 00:32:39,969 S1: Do you think I mean, anyone enjoying that stuff in 716 00:32:39,970 --> 00:32:41,170 S1: the show from the weekend? 717 00:32:42,310 --> 00:32:42,850 S5: Sam Levinson. 718 00:32:43,210 --> 00:32:46,300 S3: Say? Levinson Definitely. All right. The first episode came in 719 00:32:46,300 --> 00:32:49,720 S3: with so much baggage out of the kind of Cannes screening. 720 00:32:50,620 --> 00:32:53,200 S3: So like, as soon as it aired, I went on 721 00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:56,680 S3: Twitter like, what's the response? So much hate, like like 722 00:32:56,680 --> 00:32:59,290 S3: over the top, hate Like there wasn't that much in 723 00:32:59,290 --> 00:33:02,830 S3: the episode. But like, you notice from these scenes, it 724 00:33:02,830 --> 00:33:06,370 S3: just gets annoying. Like, it's like you're getting prodded by 725 00:33:06,370 --> 00:33:07,780 S3: the director. Totally. Yeah. 726 00:33:07,780 --> 00:33:10,360 S1: That was an amazing GQ. I think out of the 727 00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:12,459 S1: States review where they just sort of I think we 728 00:33:12,460 --> 00:33:14,380 S1: talked about it on the episode last week. I sort 729 00:33:14,380 --> 00:33:15,910 S1: of made the point that it doesn't sound like anyone 730 00:33:15,910 --> 00:33:18,850 S1: involved in this has any concept of what sex is 731 00:33:18,850 --> 00:33:22,660 S1: or how it operates. And this review was just so 732 00:33:22,660 --> 00:33:27,010 S1: eviscerating in terms of like the weekend's chat is like 733 00:33:27,100 --> 00:33:29,890 S1: a 14 year old boy, you know, who just discovered 734 00:33:29,890 --> 00:33:31,660 S1: the concept of sex. 735 00:33:31,780 --> 00:33:33,790 S2: That whole I mean, we have to talk about obviously 736 00:33:33,790 --> 00:33:37,450 S2: the whole sequence where he basically directs her to orgasm 737 00:33:37,450 --> 00:33:40,660 S2: and like it's seriously, man, like, do we have to 738 00:33:40,660 --> 00:33:41,030 S2: talk about. 739 00:33:41,050 --> 00:33:42,940 S5: Yes. Yes, I do. Yes. 740 00:33:42,940 --> 00:33:44,560 S2: Because it's the it was you know, I guess it 741 00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:46,420 S2: was the shock moment of the episode. And that's what 742 00:33:46,420 --> 00:33:48,280 S2: the whole show is essentially about. And that's what everyone 743 00:33:48,280 --> 00:33:50,320 S2: is talking about online because and I texted you yesterday, 744 00:33:50,320 --> 00:33:52,360 S2: I'm like, man, it was seriously it was like the 745 00:33:52,360 --> 00:33:56,290 S2: worst sexting of my early 20s. Like I say that. 746 00:33:56,290 --> 00:33:57,790 S2: I mean, I never talked about my fat tongue. 747 00:33:57,790 --> 00:33:58,660 S5: My tongue is. 748 00:33:58,660 --> 00:34:01,959 S2: Normal. But like, seriously, man, like these are firstly, the 749 00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:03,670 S2: weekend is like put himself in the center of the show. 750 00:34:03,670 --> 00:34:05,800 S2: Like literally go out and hire the best writers money 751 00:34:05,800 --> 00:34:08,290 S2: can buy if you're going to He's dialogue. He's so 752 00:34:08,290 --> 00:34:10,540 S2: bad and the sexting is so bad. I've never been 753 00:34:10,540 --> 00:34:11,890 S2: less turned on in my entire life. 754 00:34:12,010 --> 00:34:14,859 S3: He's coming right off like the Super Bowl halftime show 755 00:34:14,860 --> 00:34:17,200 S3: a couple of years ago. Everyone was kind of on 756 00:34:17,200 --> 00:34:19,660 S3: his side. He had like a lot of kind of 757 00:34:19,660 --> 00:34:22,120 S3: sleazy songs early in his career. Yeah. And kind of 758 00:34:22,120 --> 00:34:23,290 S3: segue into, you know. 759 00:34:24,250 --> 00:34:26,799 S1: A lot of funny things online about how people feel. 760 00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:28,420 S1: Sorry for Bella Hadid, you know, what. 761 00:34:28,480 --> 00:34:29,149 S5: You have to put up with? 762 00:34:29,230 --> 00:34:30,880 S1: And I was talking to someone about this. I'm like, oh, 763 00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:33,400 S1: but you know, he's it's a character. It's not like 764 00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:35,620 S1: his chat. But yeah, they point out what he's a 765 00:34:35,620 --> 00:34:39,190 S1: producer on the show. And like, the point is, I 766 00:34:39,190 --> 00:34:41,500 S1: think the point is that he's supposed to be sexy 767 00:34:41,500 --> 00:34:43,930 S1: and like, in control. And if that's the point, it 768 00:34:43,930 --> 00:34:47,080 S1: just doesn't land unless unless the whole thing is supposed 769 00:34:47,080 --> 00:34:47,980 S1: to be a joke or something. 770 00:34:47,980 --> 00:34:51,340 S3: It's hard to tell. But the fact is that he yeah, 771 00:34:51,340 --> 00:34:53,950 S3: he's a producer. He's gone into it with I'm going 772 00:34:53,950 --> 00:34:57,850 S3: in as this character and it's a horrible, slimy, greasy 773 00:34:57,850 --> 00:35:01,810 S3: character and you're like, That's gonna do something to the 774 00:35:01,810 --> 00:35:03,910 S3: weekend's kind of image in the pop world. 775 00:35:04,030 --> 00:35:04,509 S1: Exactly right. 776 00:35:04,750 --> 00:35:05,049 S3: I do. 777 00:35:05,710 --> 00:35:08,230 S1: I want to ask you guys this. I do think 778 00:35:08,230 --> 00:35:12,100 S1: that the weekend emerges from this show like pretty badly, 779 00:35:12,340 --> 00:35:13,750 S1: not just in terms of not being a good actor, 780 00:35:13,750 --> 00:35:16,810 S1: but it kind of is tainted his overall aura. Right? 781 00:35:16,900 --> 00:35:17,200 S1: That's my. 782 00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:20,020 S2: Sense. Yeah. Yeah, I think you're right. But then that 783 00:35:20,020 --> 00:35:22,060 S2: being said, I listen to like when you listen to 784 00:35:22,060 --> 00:35:25,000 S2: world class Sinner, like I'm a Freak. The Jocelyn song 785 00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:27,279 S2: from the show, which they have released on Spotify. 786 00:35:30,110 --> 00:35:38,170 UU: Here. No, I want to. And we can meet you. 787 00:35:38,489 --> 00:35:48,170 UU: I don't need to know your name. It's me and 788 00:35:48,170 --> 00:35:50,360 UU: you like. 789 00:35:50,360 --> 00:35:53,000 S2: It's got such the weekend vibe and it's a fucking great. 790 00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:53,630 S5: Song. I really like. 791 00:35:53,900 --> 00:35:54,070 S2: It. 792 00:35:54,110 --> 00:35:56,779 S3: So I want to ask all is Padam Padam or 793 00:35:56,780 --> 00:35:59,780 S3: Freak by Jocelyn. Which one do you prefer? 794 00:35:59,780 --> 00:36:00,420 S5: The Jocelyn song. 795 00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:01,990 S1: I think it's a great song. I've been bumping it. 796 00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:05,420 S1: I mean, I think it could do with like better vocals. Like, 797 00:36:05,420 --> 00:36:07,970 S1: I kind of wish someone else had recorded it, but 798 00:36:07,969 --> 00:36:09,350 S1: I think it's a really fun song. 799 00:36:09,350 --> 00:36:10,100 S3: Yeah, I agree. 800 00:36:10,100 --> 00:36:12,350 S2: But it'd be interesting to say because we already know 801 00:36:12,350 --> 00:36:15,320 S2: that The Weeknd has like responded to, I guess the 802 00:36:15,320 --> 00:36:18,470 S2: criticisms of this show. Rolling Stone did a big expose 803 00:36:18,830 --> 00:36:20,720 S2: and he posted on Instagram being like Rolling Stone. Did 804 00:36:20,719 --> 00:36:24,380 S2: we make you mad? So so we're episode two now. 805 00:36:24,380 --> 00:36:27,049 S2: There's five episodes. Both have been kind of trashed. There's 806 00:36:27,050 --> 00:36:29,930 S2: not a chance he's not reading and listening and aware 807 00:36:29,930 --> 00:36:32,060 S2: of this. So it'd be so interesting to see what 808 00:36:32,060 --> 00:36:33,690 S2: he does after this show. Like, is he going to 809 00:36:33,690 --> 00:36:35,600 S2: just go underground for a bit and then like, I 810 00:36:35,600 --> 00:36:37,130 S2: don't know, go to fucking Toronto and hang out with 811 00:36:37,130 --> 00:36:37,580 S2: Drake for a bit. 812 00:36:37,580 --> 00:36:38,390 S5: And then release an amazing. 813 00:36:38,390 --> 00:36:41,960 S2: Album? Like I hope so. But you know, it's the 814 00:36:41,960 --> 00:36:44,480 S2: optics and the damage to the weekend's brand I think 815 00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:45,560 S2: are so. 816 00:36:45,560 --> 00:36:48,800 S3: Bad and it's nuts that he he has orchestrated this 817 00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:49,739 S3: on himself himself. 818 00:36:49,870 --> 00:36:50,270 S5: Yeah. 819 00:36:50,480 --> 00:36:52,190 S1: Yeah. I think the last thing I want to say 820 00:36:52,190 --> 00:36:54,710 S1: about this, and we touched on it last week as well, 821 00:36:54,710 --> 00:36:58,910 S1: some of the criticism is that there's so much sex. Right. 822 00:36:58,910 --> 00:37:02,750 S1: And like Jocelyn's character played by Lily-Rose Depp, you know, 823 00:37:02,750 --> 00:37:04,549 S1: she needs protecting or it's like we've got to worry 824 00:37:04,550 --> 00:37:08,270 S1: about her. I'm not that into that analysis. I think 825 00:37:08,270 --> 00:37:11,089 S1: it's fine for there to be like eroticism and sex 826 00:37:11,090 --> 00:37:14,839 S1: in shows, but it's like with action scenes, right? Fight scenes, 827 00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:18,560 S1: they're the best when they reveal something about the characters 828 00:37:18,560 --> 00:37:21,290 S1: and that they tell you something about the narrative of 829 00:37:21,290 --> 00:37:23,960 S1: where the show is going. And a really good action 830 00:37:23,960 --> 00:37:26,630 S1: scene can do that in terms of how the characters 831 00:37:26,630 --> 00:37:28,610 S1: play off against each other and and the way they 832 00:37:28,610 --> 00:37:31,580 S1: end up. And a really good erotic or sex scene 833 00:37:31,580 --> 00:37:34,700 S1: can do the same thing, but we're not really getting 834 00:37:34,700 --> 00:37:37,520 S1: any of that. Or at least what we established very 835 00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:39,799 S1: quickly in the first episode is that the weekend is 836 00:37:39,800 --> 00:37:43,489 S1: into like dominating Jocelyn and she's into being whatever, But 837 00:37:43,489 --> 00:37:45,710 S1: just playing that out for another 20 minutes in the 838 00:37:45,710 --> 00:37:47,489 S1: second episode is not revealing anything. 839 00:37:47,510 --> 00:37:50,120 S3: Yeah, this is the thing. The thing that feels annoying 840 00:37:50,120 --> 00:37:54,290 S3: is it does feel like Sam Levinson is kind of 841 00:37:54,290 --> 00:37:58,730 S3: pushing against everything good that came out of, you know, 842 00:37:58,850 --> 00:38:03,890 S3: MeToo and in Hollywood and like post. Weinstein Right. And 843 00:38:03,890 --> 00:38:09,170 S3: it's like the first episode mocking intimacy coordinators. You know, 844 00:38:09,530 --> 00:38:11,420 S3: he's going very hard on the male gaze with some 845 00:38:11,420 --> 00:38:15,770 S3: of these lingering shots on Lily-Rose. Depp Yeah, but like 846 00:38:16,340 --> 00:38:21,319 S3: the fact that that stuff has completely disappeared from pop culture, 847 00:38:21,320 --> 00:38:24,410 S3: like makes the show a bit fascinating and that he's 848 00:38:24,410 --> 00:38:25,009 S3: doing it. 849 00:38:25,010 --> 00:38:27,530 S1: Because it's so rare these days to see that sort 850 00:38:27,530 --> 00:38:28,399 S1: of stuff. Yeah, but. 851 00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:29,029 S3: It also reminds. 852 00:38:29,030 --> 00:38:30,560 S1: You there's a reason why we don't. 853 00:38:30,790 --> 00:38:31,160 S5: Reckon. 854 00:38:31,640 --> 00:38:34,790 S3: We got past this. Yeah. What's the use of going 855 00:38:34,790 --> 00:38:35,690 S3: back to it? Right. 856 00:38:35,690 --> 00:38:35,960 S5: Yeah. 857 00:38:36,110 --> 00:38:38,900 S2: I think just it's purely just for the reaction, I think. 858 00:38:38,900 --> 00:38:40,640 S2: And I guess, you know, he's getting that. We're sitting 859 00:38:40,640 --> 00:38:42,710 S2: here talking about it on a podcast and we're not 860 00:38:42,710 --> 00:38:43,700 S2: the only ones, but. 861 00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:46,100 S3: I think he sees it as brave, like he's doing 862 00:38:46,100 --> 00:38:48,860 S3: something brave and it's like, No, no, you're just being like, 863 00:38:48,860 --> 00:38:51,020 S3: provocative and kind of obnoxious. 864 00:38:51,020 --> 00:38:53,390 S2: Yeah, it's funny. Like, I know we're going to be 865 00:38:53,390 --> 00:38:55,820 S2: on with two things I want to add. Firstly, I 866 00:38:56,210 --> 00:38:58,790 S2: female friend of mine who's watching this, she texted me 867 00:38:58,790 --> 00:39:00,950 S2: about this and she was like talking about this particular scene, 868 00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:02,450 S2: the scene where they have sex and he kind of 869 00:39:02,450 --> 00:39:04,490 S2: directs her at the first. And she was like, at 870 00:39:04,489 --> 00:39:07,640 S2: first I put it on mute just to watch because 871 00:39:07,640 --> 00:39:10,910 S2: she I find Tedros so unnerving and like unsexy that 872 00:39:10,910 --> 00:39:12,860 S2: maybe that was that. And to watch to see if 873 00:39:12,860 --> 00:39:15,710 S2: it was a vibe. And she's like, it wasn't still 874 00:39:15,710 --> 00:39:18,140 S2: even with the subtitles because the writing is so bad. 875 00:39:18,140 --> 00:39:20,299 S2: So I think I agree. Like if you're going to 876 00:39:20,300 --> 00:39:23,029 S2: make sex the entire show and centrepiece and and it 877 00:39:23,030 --> 00:39:26,210 S2: is your tool to engage people and shock people, you've 878 00:39:26,210 --> 00:39:28,610 S2: got to like at least make the sex stuff really good. 879 00:39:28,610 --> 00:39:30,050 S2: And right now it does. It just feels like it 880 00:39:30,050 --> 00:39:33,919 S2: was written by like one of my moronic mates in you, right? So, yeah, 881 00:39:33,920 --> 00:39:35,390 S2: but the one thing I did really enjoy about this episode, 882 00:39:35,390 --> 00:39:37,610 S2: aside from the, the film clip stuff, I thought I 883 00:39:37,610 --> 00:39:39,290 S2: liked that end scene where the weird kind of like 884 00:39:39,290 --> 00:39:41,330 S2: Cult was coming together and that girl's playing piano in 885 00:39:41,330 --> 00:39:43,490 S2: the nude and they're seeing that family song. 886 00:39:43,610 --> 00:39:44,390 S3: Horrible song. 887 00:39:44,390 --> 00:39:44,690 S5: Yeah. 888 00:39:45,330 --> 00:39:46,350 S2: That was like a phenomenal movie. 889 00:39:46,430 --> 00:39:47,450 S5: I couldn't get that song out of my head for 890 00:39:47,450 --> 00:39:48,030 S5: like 20. 891 00:39:48,030 --> 00:39:49,010 S2: Minutes after the show. 892 00:39:49,010 --> 00:39:53,030 S3: So, yeah, like, I'm questioning Jocelyn's like, you know. Yeah, 893 00:39:53,030 --> 00:39:55,969 S3: musical sense. Yeah. Is like, this is the song you 894 00:39:55,969 --> 00:39:58,160 S3: like and you don't like that awesome pop song that 895 00:39:58,160 --> 00:39:59,120 S3: you're being forced to sing. 896 00:39:59,120 --> 00:40:01,340 S1: Yeah, totally. Well, if you wanted to listen to three 897 00:40:01,340 --> 00:40:02,120 S1: straight guys talk. 898 00:40:02,120 --> 00:40:03,260 S5: About Kylie. 899 00:40:03,260 --> 00:40:06,740 S1: Kylie Minogue and Buddhism on screen, I hope this delivered. 900 00:40:06,739 --> 00:40:07,330 S5: Via. 901 00:40:08,090 --> 00:40:11,030 S1: The last thing I wanted to mention before we wrap 902 00:40:11,030 --> 00:40:14,330 S1: up a movie that I saw last week. Didn't expect 903 00:40:14,330 --> 00:40:16,550 S1: it to be one of the best films I've not 904 00:40:16,550 --> 00:40:18,770 S1: only seen this year, but maybe in like the last 905 00:40:18,890 --> 00:40:23,780 S1: five years, Spider-Man across the Spider-verse Neither of you guys 906 00:40:23,780 --> 00:40:26,719 S1: have seen this yet. No real miss opportunity. Like go 907 00:40:26,719 --> 00:40:28,940 S1: to a cinema and check it out. It is. It's 908 00:40:28,940 --> 00:40:31,460 S1: a weird one to describe because it is like it's 909 00:40:31,460 --> 00:40:36,140 S1: the second in a particular Spider-Man franchise. And this is 910 00:40:36,140 --> 00:40:39,710 S1: a very complicated world because there's like seven different active 911 00:40:39,710 --> 00:40:44,120 S1: Spider-Man franchises around. But this one is it's not technically 912 00:40:44,120 --> 00:40:47,779 S1: part of like the Marvel Cinematic Universe. It's a Sony production. 913 00:40:47,780 --> 00:40:51,320 S1: It's an animated production. The first one, Spider-Man into the 914 00:40:51,320 --> 00:40:54,860 S1: Spider-verse came out in 2018. I think it's streaming. Check 915 00:40:54,860 --> 00:40:57,860 S1: that out. The sequel to it. The reason why I 916 00:40:57,860 --> 00:41:00,200 S1: think it's so interesting and worth watching, even if you're 917 00:41:00,200 --> 00:41:03,350 S1: not a big Marvel or Spider-Man guy. It is a 918 00:41:03,350 --> 00:41:05,750 S1: beautifully made film. Like this film took a long time 919 00:41:05,750 --> 00:41:08,060 S1: to make. It's been five years since the last one, 920 00:41:08,060 --> 00:41:10,879 S1: and that's pretty rare for sequels in this day and age. 921 00:41:10,880 --> 00:41:16,310 S1: The animation is so incredible, like like there are so 922 00:41:16,310 --> 00:41:19,400 S1: many different worlds and characters in this that are animated differently. 923 00:41:19,400 --> 00:41:22,340 S1: There are nods to different kind of comic styles. There's 924 00:41:22,340 --> 00:41:24,980 S1: a certain character who wears a jacket and the frame 925 00:41:24,980 --> 00:41:27,260 S1: rate of his jacket is different to the frame rate 926 00:41:27,260 --> 00:41:29,030 S1: of the rest of the movie, and you don't really 927 00:41:29,030 --> 00:41:31,160 S1: know that. You just see that something weird is going 928 00:41:31,160 --> 00:41:34,190 S1: on and it just really catches your eye. The storyline 929 00:41:34,190 --> 00:41:38,360 S1: is is really poignant and beautiful about family and loss. 930 00:41:38,360 --> 00:41:41,570 S1: The voice actors in this give it their all, like 931 00:41:41,600 --> 00:41:45,050 S1: the lead actor who plays Spider-Man, who in this universe 932 00:41:45,050 --> 00:41:48,110 S1: is a character called Miles Morales, who is a Latino 933 00:41:48,110 --> 00:41:51,890 S1: and black Shameik Moore He's wonderful. Jason Schwartzman is like 934 00:41:51,890 --> 00:41:54,230 S1: the bad guy. It's a Ray is in this movie. 935 00:41:54,230 --> 00:41:57,049 S1: Daniel Kaluuya is in this movie. Oscar Isaac is in 936 00:41:57,050 --> 00:42:00,020 S1: this movie. And they're not just doing it for like money. 937 00:42:00,020 --> 00:42:02,810 S1: You can tell that they really, really, really care. It's 938 00:42:02,810 --> 00:42:06,589 S1: just really, really, really good. And I think. I would 939 00:42:06,590 --> 00:42:09,500 S1: happily leave aside every other superhero franchise and movie if 940 00:42:09,500 --> 00:42:11,250 S1: we just got films like this. 941 00:42:11,290 --> 00:42:13,790 S2: Well, see, that's interesting because I I've kind of had to, 942 00:42:13,790 --> 00:42:16,580 S2: like take a step away from Spider-Man. I was such 943 00:42:16,580 --> 00:42:19,819 S2: a like Tobey Maguire fan. The original ones, even though 944 00:42:19,820 --> 00:42:22,730 S2: looking back, they're ridiculous. But then I couldn't get around 945 00:42:22,730 --> 00:42:24,680 S2: Garfield and I couldn't get around Holland and I just 946 00:42:24,680 --> 00:42:26,660 S2: kind of fell off as they started to expand the 947 00:42:26,660 --> 00:42:28,580 S2: Spider-Man world out. So maybe this would be the one 948 00:42:28,580 --> 00:42:30,680 S2: to like. Like hook me back in. 949 00:42:30,680 --> 00:42:32,600 S3: Yeah, I've been meaning to watch it. I loved the 950 00:42:32,600 --> 00:42:35,150 S3: first one because it did have like that kind of 951 00:42:35,150 --> 00:42:38,660 S3: distinct animation style. And, you know, even though I didn't 952 00:42:38,660 --> 00:42:40,310 S3: get all the multiverse stuff, there. 953 00:42:40,310 --> 00:42:42,800 S1: Is an element of like complexity to it because it 954 00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:46,580 S1: is doing multiverse stuff. But I think like they don't, 955 00:42:46,580 --> 00:42:49,790 S1: they don't sort of make the entire movie about that. Well, 956 00:42:49,790 --> 00:42:51,770 S1: the plot is kind of very heavily about that, but 957 00:42:51,770 --> 00:42:53,900 S1: it's not like dense with exposition. Like so many of 958 00:42:53,900 --> 00:42:56,090 S1: these Marvel movies, there's not a guy being like, okay, 959 00:42:56,090 --> 00:42:58,100 S1: let me explain to you how all of this works. 960 00:42:58,100 --> 00:43:01,549 S3: Yeah, right. And the first one did produce one of 961 00:43:01,550 --> 00:43:04,549 S3: the best pop songs of the past decade Sunflower, Sunflowers. 962 00:43:05,989 --> 00:43:10,330 UU: Then you're left in the dust. Unless I stuck by you. 963 00:43:11,160 --> 00:43:15,330 UU: You're a sunflower. I think you love a bit too 964 00:43:15,330 --> 00:43:19,650 UU: much or you'll be left in the dust. Unless I 965 00:43:19,650 --> 00:43:22,630 UU: stuck by. Get it done. 966 00:43:23,140 --> 00:43:25,480 S1: There's a great soundtrack on this one as well. Yeah, Yeah. 967 00:43:25,480 --> 00:43:28,150 S1: So if you like good music, you like good story, 968 00:43:28,150 --> 00:43:31,590 S1: you like interesting animation. I could not recommend this for more. 969 00:43:31,600 --> 00:43:33,490 S2: Excellent. Looking forward to the third film with Padam Padam 970 00:43:33,489 --> 00:43:33,730 S2: and the. 971 00:43:33,730 --> 00:43:34,240 S5: Official. 972 00:43:34,840 --> 00:43:35,590 S2: Soundtrack. 973 00:43:36,340 --> 00:43:39,339 S1: Thomas and Rob, thank you so much for your time today. 974 00:43:39,370 --> 00:43:40,540 S3: Always a pleasure. Thank you. 975 00:43:43,960 --> 00:43:46,960 S1: This episode of The Drop was produced by Che Wong. 976 00:43:47,290 --> 00:43:49,480 S1: If you enjoyed listening to today's episode of The Drop, 977 00:43:49,480 --> 00:43:51,950 S1: make sure to follow us in your favorite podcast app. 978 00:43:51,969 --> 00:43:55,520 S1: Better yet, share it with a friend. I'm Osman Farooqui. 979 00:43:55,540 --> 00:43:56,530 S1: See you next week.