S1: Hey there. I'm Osman Farooqui and this is The Drop,
S1: a culture show from the Sydney Morning Herald and The Age,
S1: where we dive into the latest in the world of
S1: pop culture and entertainment. Camp Cope have been one of
S1: the most important Australian bands over the past decade since
S1: their debut album in 2015. They've changed the sound of
S1: local indie rock and they forced the music industry to
S1: reckon with its treatment of women. The music is critically
S1: acclaimed and adored by fans all over the world, so
S1: it was pretty devastating when the band announced earlier this
S1: year that they were breaking up. I caught up with
S1: the group to discuss the origins of Camp Cope, what
S1: they hope to achieve, the important conversations they started, why
S1: they broke up and what's coming next.
UU: Starving. And he was so sick that you are dying.
UU: If I was hungry, then you. Stop. Now tell the
UU: dead man. I mean, you're the white.
S1: So here with Georgia Kelly and Tomo from Camp Cope
S1: ahead of what will be your guys final ever performance
S1: together as a band at the Sydney Opera House in October? Gang,
S1: it's been a few months since you announced things were ending.
S1: How are we feeling?
S2: It's weird, isn't it?
S1: It's weird for me. I mean, it's really nice to
S1: be here with all of you, but. I felt odd.
S3: I think it was always going to be weird and like,
S3: we love each other so much and this isn't because
S3: of like, personal issues. It's just that, like, Camp Cope
S3: was like started eight years ago and we were all
S3: completely different people and completely different parts of our life.
S3: And now we're not like, Kelly's a mom. I live
S3: in Los Angeles. Thomas stayed exactly the same.
S4: And looks and looks.
S3: Exactly the.
S4: Same.
S2: It's funny, you look at pictures from from when we
S2: started and because I guess, well, I'm ten years older
S2: than these two, so it's like you see them and
S2: they're like 22 or something. And I'm like these two
S2: tiny children and then me. And then in ten years
S2: they look like adults and I look like I haven't grown,
S2: like I still look like a child and an old child.
S1: Kelly's beautiful coda in the background, weakening. I mean, even
S1: this this call that we're all on is, I guess,
S1: a signifier of the times. Like you're still here in
S1: Melbourne with me, Tomo Kelly's in Sydney with Coda and
S1: a in a cut and some sort of funny screensaver
S1: on a television.
S5: It's a baby dale and baby sensory videos trying to
S5: distract him and he'll still yell the entire time. He's fiery.
S1: Jojo was bragging about being in sunny Silverlake, 29 degrees.
S1: Not a cloud in the sky.
S3: Gorgeous.
S1: I'm going to get to what led to this big
S1: decision and kind of what's next for you guys. But
S1: there's a lot I want to talk about before we
S1: get there. I think it's really hard to overstate the
S1: impact you guys have had on Australian music and not
S1: just in a musical sense, but I also think culturally
S1: and socially and politically, since you started releasing music together
S1: and I want to go back to 2015, you guys
S1: had all been in different bands. George You doing solo stuff?
S1: I think at the time when you decided to form
S1: Camp Cope and write and release songs together, can you
S1: remember like were you hoping to achieve something where you're like,
S1: We want to make one great record, We want to
S1: do this for a long time. We are setting out
S1: to completely transform Australian music. Would you have any of
S1: those conversations?
S2: No.
S3: Oh yeah, totally. Before we even started playing together, we're like, Right,
S3: all right. With our powers combined, we're going to change
S3: the music industry, We're going to make three albums and
S3: one a.
S1: Very specific set of goals. You hear We're going to.
S3: Get in a lot of trouble. We're going to get
S3: a couple of cease and desist letters.
S2: You know what's funny, though? Because, no, we didn't. But
S2: it was funny because back in 2015, Georgia did say
S2: to me once before I think before we did any interviews,
S2: obviously that came became a thing. But before we did
S2: any interviews whatsoever, George is like, I can't be the
S2: one to talk. I'm going to Dixie Chicks Us. And then,
S2: you know, a few years later with Dixie. No, I did.
S2: But no, there was there was definitely no I'd quit
S2: music already for seven years, so I was perfectly happy
S2: in my beautiful life outside of playing music and then
S2: slowly got tricked back into it. How did you get tricked?
S1: What was the what was the thing that convinced you
S1: to jump back on?
S2: Well, not well. I didn't even really agree to do it,
S2: to be honest. I still haven't. But now Georgia was
S2: playing solo, obviously, and was like, Do you know any drummers?
S2: And I'm like, No, no. But if I hear of one,
S2: like I'll let you know kind of thing. And she's like, Oh, well,
S2: I just don't know anyone. Oh, no worries. Well, yep,
S2: As I said, I'll keep my ears out. And then
S2: one day Georgia came to my house and saw a
S2: drum kit and was like, Whose is that? And I
S2: was like, God, fine, they're mine. Okay, I'll come over
S2: on Saturday and I'll bring a guitar and we can
S2: we can play the songs through. And I was like,
S2: God damn it! And next. Then next minute there was
S2: a show. Yeah. And here we are today.
S3: Oh, and the story of how I met Kelly, we've
S3: talked about a billion times. I don't think we need
S3: to talk about it.
S1: I want to hear it.
S3: I just kidding. I'm going to tell the story of
S3: how we met Kelly So I was getting a tattoo
S3: on my ankle by this fucking idiot. Am I allowed
S3: to sweat?
S1: You can Absolutely.
S3: Okay. I'm in a really bad house in Footscray and
S3: Kelly walks in. She's about to, like, hang out with
S3: this dude in a platonic way, by the way.
S1: Okay, good.
S3: And she's like, talking. And there's some, like, people hanging
S3: around and then, like, some something said something about Kelly
S3: being in a band. And I was like, what do
S3: you play? And she was like, bass. And then in
S3: my head I had this like, I was like, This
S3: is the bass player of the band. This is who's
S3: going to play bass? And then I was too scared
S3: because I was too scared to ask her. So I
S3: had to ask our friend to ask her.
S5: I saw Georgia, so I was living. My first Melbourne
S5: house was in Collingwood at this place called Like Rock
S5: and Roll High School, the Milk Bar, which had been
S5: a venue since like the 80s. And Georgia had come
S5: and played a show in our lounge room. And I
S5: remember sitting there being like, Oh, she's done really good
S5: with the band. And that was the first time I
S5: ever heard Georgia say not. I had zero interest in
S5: being in a band ever again. But, um, yeah, so
S5: I saw her before she kind of started asking about
S5: what I played and things like that too. So I
S5: don't know. We were connecting and weird brainwaves, I think.
S3: Even though remember that she said she played the bass.
S3: I was like, This is the bass player of the band.
S1: Oh, what are you saying, Kelly? You heard Georgia play
S1: and you're like, She'd sound great with a band that's
S1: kind of almost a neg. It's like you nearly there.
S1: You just need some more noise around you.
S5: When I saw her play, she was playing with the
S5: electric guitar and she just had that presence. Like I
S5: was like, This girl needs to be fronting a band.
S5: She sounds. Her voice is so powerful. She's like the
S5: electric guitar. Like it would sound so sick with the band.
S2: And that first day in my lounge room when it
S2: was just me and Georgia, obviously it was the first
S2: time Georgia had played with drums before. And obviously I'm
S2: quite loud and just your face. It's like start playing
S2: along to whatever song it was, stove lighter or something,
S2: and you're just like, Oh my God, perfect. Move on.
S2: Next song I'm we haven't even finished. Like we haven't
S2: even done.
S3: Yeah, we got like 10s into each and I was like, Oh,
S3: this is perfect. This is going to work. I just
S3: know it Next.
S1: I remember when your first record, that self-titled Camco was released.
S1: I was hosting a show on FBI radio in Sydney
S1: and I remember getting it and it was playlists and
S1: it was the first time I ever heard it was
S1: like I wasn't cool enough to like see the record
S1: and listen to like, Damn, we should play this. Some
S1: very smart music director had been like us. You're going
S1: to have to play songs from this record. So I'm like, okay, okay,
S1: I'll get familiar with it. And I remember looking at
S1: the tracklist and I'm like, Oh my God, these guys
S1: have a song about Lost, and they have a song
S1: called Jet Fuel Can't Melt Steel Beams. They're insane. What
S1: is going on.
S2: Then? You met us. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then they.
S5: Are.
S1: Then I got to know you guys. I was like,
S1: You are insane.
S3: You figured it out before anyone. Everyone thought we were cool,
S3: but you knew us. You know, we were insane.
S1: I did also think when I finally listened to it,
S1: I was like, Damn, this is amazing. And it doesn't
S1: sound like anything else in Australia right now. I mean,
S1: can you guys remember the reaction to that first record
S1: and why you think it sort of landed as massively
S1: as it did?
S2: It's weird because we just had the songs, right? We
S2: had like we just had we just did enough songs
S2: that were like, okay, we've got eight songs. That's enough
S2: for an album, so let's just go quickly, record them all.
S2: So we did that in like a day, so it's like.
S1: Recorded the whole thing in a.
S2: Day. Yeah, like live two days, two days, sorry, two days.
S2: Including the mixing, of course. So just played it all live.
S2: That was all the songs we had. So that's the album.
S2: It's not like we were like, these ones are going
S2: to be great. It was like and so I kind
S2: of guess it was weird when we put sort of
S2: gave the songs to Andy from Poison City and said, Oh,
S2: I don't know, what do you think? And he's like.
S2: Which one do you think should be the single kind
S2: of thing? And he said, lost him like, okay, whatever,
S2: you know? And then, yeah, people liked it and was like, Oh, okay, cool.
S2: That's nice.
S1: How did you feel about the reaction in Georgia? Were
S1: you just writing these songs? You have lots of different
S1: interesting takes about the world and television. Were you expecting
S1: people to connect with it the way that they did?
S3: I'm not really. I feel like I live on a
S3: different planet to everyone else.
S1: I think we all feel that.
S3: I feel like I feel like I. I find it
S3: really hard to connect with people like and people really
S3: connected with the music. And that still kind of blows
S3: my mind. And I wish I could feel like a
S3: connection to people, but I don't. But it's nice that
S3: people feel a connection through the music. But yeah, it
S3: was like, of course it was unexpected. Imagine if I
S3: was to be like, Oh yeah, I expected people to
S3: react like really well to it and to really love it.
S3: That's what I.
S4: Expected.
S3: Like, imagine.
S1: Yeah, no, that's true.
S3: It'd be honestly, you're a journalist. Start to set me
S3: up for questions that you know I'm going to.
S1: I just hope out of anyone here, George, you might
S1: be someone who would say something like that, and that
S1: would be very funny. And then we could make fun
S1: of you.
S2: Well, we were on tour, like when we were always
S2: on tour. We sort of started and then we just
S2: played shows for like seven straight or basically until Covid.
S2: We were on tour with Jeff Rosenstock when the singles
S2: came out and when the album Preorders went up and stuff.
S2: So we were kind of just with them being like,
S2: I don't know. And they were like, we sort of
S2: sent gave them the link to the album before it
S2: came out, and they're like, This is a great album.
S2: We're like, Oh, okay. I don't know. This is play
S2: a show. So it was quite nice.
S3: I listen to it now and I'm like.
S4: This sucks a little bit.
S3: I mean, it doesn't suck, but. It's just like. Like,
S3: what was I doing? Why was I. Why was I
S3: sounding so Australian?
S1: You were sending very Australian.
S3: Yeah, I know. I was just like. I wasn't like singing.
S3: I was just like yelling.
S2: Georgia, you're from Australia.
S3: I know, I know.
S1: I mean, I go back and I read things I
S1: wrote a week ago and I hate them, but I
S1: was listening to that first record a lot this week,
S1: building up to this interview. And without, you know, without me,
S1: you know, that I'm not just trying to, like, suck
S1: up to you guys for the sake of it. If anything,
S1: I'd want to do the opposite because of all the
S1: shit you give me. But what was amazing was how
S1: much Thatrillionecord still stood out, right? Even though it is
S1: eight years old, it still feels exciting and fresh. And
S1: there is this sense of something really new and boundary
S1: pushing that I know that maybe you, Georgia, you feel
S1: like you've progressed and developed as an artist and you
S1: sing differently and you sing about different things. But I
S1: think it is really interesting how that record still feels
S1: like it could have come out last week. In a
S1: lot of ways.
S2: It's like, you know, it's a good song, It's a
S2: good song. It doesn't matter how it's recorded or how
S2: it's like whether it's just recorded on a phone, you know, or,
S2: you know, spend $20,000 in a studio. It's like, I
S2: think people liked the songs for what they were, and
S2: they're like, you know, there was no bullshit. It was like,
S2: This is just what it is, and here it is.
S2: And it wasn't trying to be anything else, you know?
S2: And I think people can see through fake sort of stuff.
S2: And it was just like Georgia wrote the songs when
S2: she was, what, 1920. So it's like, you know, it's
S2: like this is just what it is and people get that.
S1: Kelly You said before that you decided that you didn't
S1: really want to be in another band, and then this
S1: record blows up and you're touring pretty much nonstop for
S1: nearly a decade, and you were pretty young as well
S1: in your early 20s. What was that like?
S5: I feel very fortunate for getting the opportunity to travel
S5: to the places that we did and meet the people
S5: that we did, but I really struggled with touring and performing.
S5: I had a lot of anxiety and when really when
S5: world touring and when we're even in the studio, like
S5: I did struggle, I don't think I was ever built
S5: for that sort of life. There was aspects that I really,
S5: really enjoyed. And I when we first went to the States,
S5: I didn't even own a passport because I didn't I
S5: never anticipated that I would ever go overseas, you know,
S5: And it was a lot of kind of getting used
S5: to that lifestyle and then learning along the way kind
S5: of what people expected it to look like or what
S5: people told you it should look like. And then following
S5: your kind of group with not just with you.
S3: But I feel like Camp Cap's always kind of done
S3: what people hadn't expected us to do. Like, you know,
S3: we made our first album and then the second album
S3: there was even less production. There was no harmonies. It
S3: was like even Filthier. And now by breaking up, it's
S3: like we're still doing things that people kind of wouldn't
S3: expect us to do. And I think that's very cool.
S1: A big part of the narrative of the band. We're
S1: talking about this earlier and I am, you know, slightly
S1: loath to have to go here. Georgia, before you said, Oh, great,
S1: we're going to talk heaps about Falls Festival and, you know,
S1: being women in music. But I want to ask you
S1: more about the reaction to that kind of moment, because
S1: you guys took these stances that were, at the time,
S1: probably like ten years too late compared to the rest
S1: of all at the time were pretty radical in terms
S1: of actually saying, hey, women should be on more lineups
S1: and hey, women should feel safe when they go to
S1: music festivals. And in some ways for a period that
S1: discourse and those stances became what you were more known for,
S1: for a lot of people than than your actual music,
S1: where you were all frustrated that that burden fell entirely
S1: on women artists, non-binary artists, and kind of basically you
S1: guys in that era.
S2: Well, still to this day, like people will send through,
S2: you know, interview requests to like our publicist or something saying,
S2: you know, someone's done something, a man has done something bad,
S2: can you give your take? And I'm like, literally go
S2: and ask a man. We've said that for so many years.
S2: And you won't you simply will not ask them. You
S2: know what our take is? Google it. It was definitely
S2: a common sense. It wasn't a planned like, Hey, we're
S2: going to do this thing. It was like I remember
S2: somebody asking me quite soon after falls, like, what made
S2: you do this? And I was like, What? Do what
S2: I was like, Can you can you count? And they're like, Yeah.
S2: And I was like, Well, the post is there for
S2: everyone to see. I could count how many men are
S2: on there. Like it wasn't hidden. It's like this is
S2: public knowledge. You just didn't look at it. And we
S2: counted it and said it out loud. And now you're
S2: all yelling at us like, Yell at Foles. I don't know.
S3: What we got sent the line up. When we accepted
S3: the Falls offer, we wrote back to them and we
S3: were like, Where? Where are all the women? And then
S3: they came back at us and well, like and like
S3: we didn't sign it. Fucking NDA. I can talk about this.
S3: They were like, Oh, well if you know any bands
S3: and blah blah blah. And then we sent them bands
S3: and they like put them on as like special little
S3: guests in every like state or whatever. But it's like
S3: that's still the work that we had to do. We
S3: didn't get paid for that.
S1: Like, Yeah, you're doing extra work as like a curator.
S3: The jobs that they should have done. And then one
S3: of them going on about the diversity bandwagon, a big sound,
S3: like acting like that's like a bad thing. Like it's
S3: still like it's still bothers me that, like, we had
S3: to we had to be the ones to say that again.
S3: It's like women's work, though. We don't get paid for.
S3: And we got heaps of backlash, even though we were
S3: literally just like, Hey, there's nine women, but we make
S3: up three of. So there was six other women aside
S3: from us on the line up and we just put
S3: that information out there. We just said it and people
S3: did with that what they wanted to do.
S5: I think we came from like a music community where
S5: there was heaps of diversity. So like, you know, I
S5: was going to shows and I lived upstairs at Black
S5: Wire and there was there was a bunch of women
S5: and people of color and non-binary and trans people making music.
S5: And then same I think in the local Melbourne scene
S5: as well, there was more diversity than that was being
S5: shot at, like the big commercial festivals and radio stations.
S5: So it was a bit jarring to know that these
S5: bands existed and really good quality bands of people that
S5: aren't just the same type of person existed. And then
S5: trying to explain to that and then being told that
S5: you're wrong.
S3: I kind of came out playing in a scene with
S3: lots of bands with like Four White Men, right? And
S3: I came in and I started playing. And at first
S3: they all loved me because they could add a girl
S3: to the lineup as like the acoustic opener. And then
S3: I started talking about it, and then I became the
S3: enemy to that scene. Stilt like to this day, and
S3: I started, like, calling things out, like being like, Hey, man,
S3: in your 30s maybe it's kind of weird that you're
S3: singing about a girl who's 16. Like, it's inappropriate. And
S3: it's really problematic and questionable. And yet no one else
S3: said anything. And like I put like, you know, we
S3: put our necks out for it and yeah, I still
S3: get a bit worked up about it.
S2: I think the upsetting thing as well as I think
S2: we got branded as these angry people and like people like,
S2: you know, we'd do interviews and stuff and the journalists
S2: would always be like, Are you guys are just idiots?
S2: Or like, Yeah, like we're not angry. Like, the thing
S2: with the like, we've never really spoken about the false
S2: thing because it's like it doesn't need attention brought to it.
S2: They don't need any attention brought to them. But it's like,
S2: you know, all the emails I sent them were very nice.
S2: Like I could print them out and show anybody if
S2: anyone ever wanted them. I would never though, because who cares?
S2: But it's like then it was like your reaction was
S2: so bad that it made us look bad. I never
S2: yelled at you. I was quite nice. I was. But
S2: I think that was the more upsetting thing that we
S2: got tarnished as these bad people when, you know, they
S2: were just reacting in a. Bad way to something that
S2: they'd done.
S3: Being in camp in the earliest stages. Like I feel
S3: like some of that, like some of that, like angry
S3: stuff was true because I was like, I was angry
S3: because it's like I'm like a fiery Greek woman and
S3: out like, dinner's just people yelling at each other, you know?
S3: And so I get, like, fired up about things. But
S3: it was like being like, Hey, the sky is blue. Look. Oh,
S3: my God, the sky is blue. And people not believing you.
S3: It's like there's so much frustration in not being believed
S3: that I like anger was like my immediate reaction.
S1: There's such an inherent defensiveness to pointing out a problem exists,
S1: let alone actually suggesting how to rectify it. I feel
S1: like Australia is. I want to ask you guys this
S1: because you've got so much experience touring around the world.
S1: From my perspective, it's always felt like Australia is uniquely
S1: bad at acknowledging the existence of issues around like structural sexism, misogyny, racism.
S1: Azealia Banks, you know, famously in the last few months
S1: has been extremely vocal about saying what is wrong and
S1: toxic about the Australian industry, not just from the level
S1: of like labels and promoters, but audiences, she says. A
S1: really bad you guys have toured all over the world.
S1: Like how do you think Australians kind of compare Australia compares?
S2: I mean, think about how many tours we've done in
S2: Australia in the last six years. We do one like
S2: we probably do five shows. On every album tour, and
S2: I think that speaks for itself, really. I mean, if
S2: you've got a country that can't acknowledge, you know, its history,
S2: you know, indigenous history, everything like that, it's like, how
S2: is it going to. Of course, if it can't deal
S2: with that, it can't deal with. Something as stupid as music, obviously.
S3: Australia absolutely has a long, long way to go. And yeah,
S3: it's a lot to do with toxic masculinity. So I
S3: feel like it's a term that's mainly just, you know,
S3: boys love being like toxic masculinity and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But, like,
S3: it's a real thing. And men need to men, they
S3: just need to do something about it. Go to therapy.
S2: The thing is, it's like if you go back to
S2: the start of music in Australia, popular music in Australia,
S2: like I can't think of a single person like, you know,
S2: who's not a man, a white man who's stayed like anyone,
S2: you know, huge like Kylie Minogue gone, Tina Arena gone.
S2: Like I think it's like from the beginning. Like it's
S2: like you're gone. Like, you know, people like Courtney and Julia. Angie,
S2: they all play overseas. Like, it's like it's an unspoken thing.
S2: But if, like, it's not like anyone stands up and goes,
S2: I'm not playing here. It's kind of everyone just leaves
S2: because it's like, look, it's just easier to leave than
S2: be here. Even we've had men friends in Canada and
S2: the US, like who are four white men in a
S2: band who play to large audiences of men. And I
S2: don't know if you guys remember this when we were
S2: staying with them one time in Canada and they're like,
S2: What is with Australia? I was like, What do you mean? Like,
S2: obviously there's problems, obviously, but what do you mean in
S2: this instance? Like.
S4: The crowds.
S2: Are insane. Like, it's horrible. What is wrong with them?
S2: I'm like, worse than your crowds because your crowds are
S2: pretty bad and they're like, so much worse. It's like
S2: so you can see it. So obviously we can see.
S1: It's so interesting to hear because I feel like I
S1: kind of grew up in the hip hop scene and
S1: it's a very similar story. You hear from international acts
S1: when they come to Australia. They say there's it's so weird,
S1: like the energy from these crowds as it toxicity. There's
S1: a violence of masculinity there. And I don't know how
S1: many Australians know that. They just think that this is
S1: what's normal and they don't know that. Even America, which
S1: obviously has so many of its own issues actually bands
S1: like playing that more than they like playing in Australia.
S2: Yeah, yeah.
S1: The kind of the last thing I want to ask
S1: you guys about this kind of broad topic when you
S1: think about the Australian music landscape now, I mean, this
S1: is maybe a kind of a tricky question because I
S1: don't want to undermine the activism that so many people
S1: like you in the music industry did, but like, how
S1: much do you think it's actually changed the Australian music
S1: landscape in the last eight years? We were talking just
S1: before this interview about how, you know, Jenny, who who
S1: plays with you on tour, she's been pointing out on
S1: Instagram line ups have gone back to being 90%. I
S1: can't remember. It was Georgia. You made a gag about
S1: old camp cops gone. Now it's time to just roll
S1: out the old male lineups again. Do you think we've
S1: progressed at all or are things at risk of getting
S1: pretty grim?
S3: I feel like it was like maybe like two step forwards,
S3: one step back or like one step forward, two steps back.
S3: And I think that I don't know, maybe it is
S3: just a coincidence that we decided to call it a
S3: day and now line up so regressing.
S1: One thing I will say, though, is you guys have
S1: outlasted false festival like your your last gig will be
S1: in October and falls is not playing this year. And
S1: from what I hear, it might not ever come back.
S1: So I don't know if that's a good thing or
S1: a bad thing. But you lasted longer.
S2: Upsetting to.
S4: Me.
S2: I don't know. It's yeah, I think what Georgia said
S2: is true. It's like, you know, when it's like everything
S2: in the world, not just this. It's like anything. Any
S2: small change it happens is going to be pushed back
S2: and it goes back backwards a bit and then forwards
S2: a bit. I wouldn't say that it's worse. Some some
S2: aspects of it are definitely better, but there's definitely people
S2: that are actively don't like it. So I guess it
S2: goes both ways.
S1: Oh, we haven't made maybe as much progress as we
S1: probably should have.
S2: No, I feel like we've made a tiny bit, but it's,
S2: you know, people are more aware of it. Maybe, definitely.
S2: Since like, you know, when when I think I've said
S2: this before, when we started how I'd quit music for
S2: however long, when I came back, it was like when
S2: we first started, I was like, This is literally the
S2: same as when I left. So nothing had changed in
S2: that period of time. So I feel like the difference
S2: between then and now is a small bit of changes happen.
S2: Not enough, but a little bit.
S5: I feel like things were kind of moving forward before
S5: Covid and then people can really show their true colors
S5: when money's involved. So as money fans started to get
S5: less and less available, that's when people kind of put
S5: the progress on the backburner and just focused on making
S5: money again, because I don't think a lot.
S1: Of people talked to kind of diversity in lineups was
S1: seen as an extra. A luxury. Yeah. And when we
S1: don't have time for luxuries, let's just go back to
S1: the bread and butter.
S2: And it was used as a it was used as
S2: a weapon, too. It was like, well, I don't know.
S2: We haven't worked for two years, so we can't have
S2: a diverse lineup. It's like, well, you kind of can.
S1: But it also seems bizarre to me that conversation because
S1: looking at what Australia looks like now in terms of
S1: diversity across so many different facets, you if you are
S1: a venue or a promoter or a festival that just
S1: wants to play for white dudes with guitars, you will
S1: go bankrupt because that is not what people want to
S1: see anymore.
S2: Yeah, it's.
S3: Boring.
S2: Yeah, it is very boring.
S1: Your guys last album, Running With the Hurricane, it came
S1: in in March last year. I never asked you this
S1: at the time, but. But did you know when you
S1: were recording and releasing that, that it would be the
S1: last one?
S6: No.
S2: I don't think we've ever really planned that far ahead. What?
S2: I think people think that we're smarter than we are.
S2: We just know. It's like, I don't know. I haven't
S2: planned what I'm doing next week, let alone the next album.
S2: Once you're in the studio, it's like, I don't want
S2: to do this for ages, but it's you don't go anyway.
S2: The End.
S3: But I knew that after running with the hurricane that
S3: I wanted to have a break and I wanted to
S3: like do the solo thing for a bit.
S1: So talk me through that decision. I feel like when
S1: bands break up, people always want to think that there's
S1: some sort of like, Oh, you know, talking about having
S1: a tour and we all really hated each other and
S1: blah blah blah. The sense I get is more you
S1: guys had put out three records, you're really happy with
S1: them all. Your toured so many times. People were in
S1: different phases of life than when you started and you
S1: just wanted to pursue different things for a while. Was
S1: there one of you who was the first one to
S1: sort of bring it up and say, Hey guys, what
S1: if we didn't?
S4: Kelly's putting her hand up.
S1: Tell us about that conversation, Kelly.
S5: I feel like I'm often the most direct. Um, and
S5: I can't I'm often kind of like not the mediator,
S5: but it's, you know, just different personalities and Georgia and Tomo.
S5: And we often try and bring to pick out a
S5: lot of things very delicate.
S4: Like if anyone.
S5: Knew all three of us, you'd know that.
S2: The two fiery ones and the and the one he
S2: tries to on fire.
S5: And I could see that we're all getting all these
S5: different directions. And I just feel like, hey, I think
S5: my direction is pulling me away from the band.
S1: And did it feel natural? Like when Kelly said that,
S1: it was like, okay, that actually does make sense. We
S1: just needed someone to say it.
S4: Yeah, yeah.
S2: Everyone is like, Yeah, cool. I agree. I think as well,
S2: like a lot of people have asked about, you know.
S2: It's like, Oh, you're going to miss Turing, you're going
S2: to miss this. It's like, I don't know. I personally
S2: I can't speak for everyone, but it's like I grieved
S2: the loss of live music in 2020, like it's gone
S2: and it's never, ever going to be the same. Like touring,
S2: you know, here last year and touring in the States
S2: last year. It's like, this is a different world. This
S2: is not the same. It's like we're never going to
S2: go back to what it was. Crowds are different. It's
S2: like it's not safe. It's like, you know, the money,
S2: it's the expenses are insane. Like, it's like it's not
S2: it's not the same. So it's like I'm happy to
S2: remember touring as it was and happy that we got
S2: to do what we did because it's certainly not going
S2: to go back to that. I don't think, at least
S2: for a really long time, if ever.
S3: Yeah, I'm very grateful for all the tours that we did.
S3: We had so much fun.
S2: Yeah, we got to do way more than we ever thought,
S2: I think.
S3: But I think. I think that we needed to break
S3: up because, yeah, we're all different people who want different things.
S3: Like all our goals are completely different now than they
S3: were eight years ago, and like, we love each other
S3: enough to respect that in each other and to want,
S3: you know, like, I want the best for Kelly and Tomoe. Absolutely.
S3: And yeah, being in the band wasn't conducive to that.
S1: It's bad that I'm going to cry hearing that.
S7: Really?
S1: It's very sweet. Yeah. Yeah. I just think it's very,
S1: very nice to hear that in any kind of context
S1: about a long term relationship where you're making decisions that
S1: are about respecting each other's, you know, thoughts, feelings, futures,
S1: ideas and giving each other space.
S4: And going.
S2: Out when you want to go out. You know, it's
S2: not like we're not being forced to. It's kind of like, well,
S2: we've made the decision and it's time. All things must
S2: come to an end at some point.
S3: Yeah, because like, my parents split up when I was
S3: 11 and it was the best thing that they ever
S3: did for their relationship. And they remained best friends who
S3: lived three houses apart until my dad died. And it's
S3: it's like Camp Carpe, like we're ending the band, but
S3: our relationships are all going to probably like still keep
S3: growing into like even more like even stronger friendships.
S1: Yeah. Nice. When you guys catch up, you're just there
S1: to catch up and have a good time and sob
S1: stories and look at how big Koda has gotten rather
S1: than talk about logistics.
S2: And not being like exhausted and, you know, stuck in
S2: a moving vehicle together for.
S4: 12.
S2: Hours a day. Yeah.
S1: George, you're working on solo stuff and you've released a
S1: bunch of amazing solo work in the last couple of years.
S1: Your music that you're working on now, do you see
S1: it as an iteration of of what the band released,
S1: or are you just seeing it as a completely different
S1: project because you're you've had enough of the camp space
S1: for a while.
S3: I think it's completely different because in camp, like I
S3: would write all the songs just at home on my
S3: guitar and then like bring them to the band. And
S3: then we'd kind of like flesh it out together. And
S3: now I'm doing songwriting in a completely different way by
S3: like going into songwriting sessions and like making songs with
S3: like producers and stuff like that and like, just. I
S3: know there's a bit a bit more like wiggle room
S3: and what I'm doing now, like if I want like
S3: a thousand instruments on it, that can be a thousand instruments.
S3: Whereas like in Camp Carpe, it was like, Well, this
S3: band is us three, and that's what it's always been.
S3: And it's about what we create together, you know? And
S3: my solo thing is just completely different to that. Like,
S3: it's not going to sound like it's not like nothing
S3: will ever be Camp Cope. I'm always going to be
S3: Jorja Mack from Camp Cope and Camp Camp was like the,
S3: like the best thing I ever did. Like, I love
S3: camp so much. We fucking rocked. We were so good and.
S3: Where you did so much good and we were the best.
S3: But now I'm going to do something different and it's
S3: going to be the best in my own, you know,
S3: in a different way. You know.
S1: Tom and Kelly, you both have been here before where
S1: you've finished band and you said never again. I mean,
S1: would you guys think about getting back in the game
S1: for for another project? I mean, you might already be.
S1: I actually don't know if you're already cooking something else up.
S2: There's about five drummers in Melbourne, so you can imagine
S2: three minutes after we announced the breakup, it was like, Oh, interesting. Um,
S2: do you want to give me a minute? I'm going
S2: to say for now, I need a rest. Yeah, I
S2: need to watch the TV for a little while.
S4: Yeah.
S1: A lot of reality TV and footy and beers to sink.
S4: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
S2: I've got a cat to deal with. No time for
S2: this rocking.
S1: How about you, Kelly?
S5: Uh, I can't imagine it. Like, people are constantly asking,
S5: but it's never say never. But yeah, my focus is
S5: just really off by right now. And not just with
S5: a baby. Just with. And because and Cameron, I've built
S5: something different than than what I found. I think it's. Uh,
S5: nice and left to kind of do a bunch of
S5: different things and see what works best for you. And
S5: I don't know if being a musician was the best
S5: thing for me, so I want to explore some other
S5: things before I think about going back to it.
S1: Hey, Kelly Thomas and Georgia, thanks so much for talking
S1: to me. I'm really excited about October, but I'm also
S1: really sad.
S3: It will just be one last hurrah and the goddamn
S3: concert hall.
S1: Thank you again, guys.
S8: Thanks for having us all.
S3: Thank you, Osman.
S1: This episode of The Drop was produced by Wong. If
S1: you enjoyed listening to today's episode of The drop, make
S1: sure to follow us in your favorite podcast app. Leave
S1: us a review or better yet, share it with a friend.
S1: I'm Osman Farooqui. See you next week.