S1: Let's get into it.
S2: Hey there. I'm Osman Farooqui and this is The Drop,
S2: a culture show from the Sydney Morning Herald and The Age,
S2: where we dive into the latest in the world of
S2: pop culture and entertainment. I'm here with Thomas Mitchell and
S2: Mel Cambrai. It's been a week since the cultural event
S2: of the year. The decade, The century. How you guys
S2: feeling seven days after we've had a chance to process,
S2: to think, reflect. How do we feel about these two
S2: big movies, Barbie and Oppenheimer?
S3: I am still obsessed with both of them, and I
S3: really want to go back to see them again so
S3: I can kind of keep thinking about them and pick
S3: up the details that you miss when you only watch
S3: them once. Because I've just been so enthralled by all
S3: the discussion and debate around them, and particularly Oppenheimer. And
S3: I know you guys are kind of the same. I've
S3: gone down a real deep dive into the history of that.
S2: We've all been reading the Wikipedia pages of every single
S2: character in that movie. Well, I.
S4: Was actually on Charles Oppenheimer, who is Oppenheimer's grandson. I
S4: was on his website last night. So that's where I'm at.
S4: And he was in the.
S3: He was in the documentary that was there was the
S3: there's an Oppenheimer documentary that's on Binge. I just got
S3: American Prometheus, which is the book Christopher Nolan based the
S3: film on Delivered. So I am I'm well into it.
S4: Look at Oseman. You can't obviously this is a podcast,
S4: but he is beaming like a proud father. He's never
S4: been so excited that we're all so.
S2: Oppenheimer I went back to the movies on Saturday to
S2: see Oppenheimer for a second time and I was still
S2: blown away. I thought, like, you know, for such a
S2: long movie, quite incredible that I did not feel bored
S2: at all. Seeing it for the second time. The pacing
S2: was great. Definitely picked up on a couple of things.
S2: A couple of things made sense to me that that
S2: I sort of missed the first time around. But the
S2: most interesting part of going to the movies again, and
S2: I'm really interested to talk to you guys about what
S2: your kind of immediate social group, family friends have been
S2: saying about these films. It was an amazing experience. It
S2: was like 10:00 in the morning at the Imax, maybe
S2: like 100 of the 600 people there were dressed in pink.
S2: So they were clearly ready to do the Oppenheimer Barbie double.
S2: And we'd sort of flagged that that's the wrong order
S2: to do these movies in because of the intensity of Oppenheimer.
S2: I actually ducked out of the cinema like two minutes
S2: before the movie ended just so I could stand at
S2: the exit and watch everyone's faces as they left. And
S2: let me tell you, that was a sight. That was
S2: a sight. There was like mascara running.
S4: Especially for the people coming out.
S2: Yes.
S4: Just you standing there watching them.
S2: That was.
S3: Very disconcerting.
S4: I stood there just to watch people.
S2: Well, I wanted to see how the Bobbie crew would,
S2: like handle it, because I think everyone was so excited
S2: and preppy. And I think, like our instincts were vindicated
S2: that people walked out of that cinema, not quite ready
S2: to go watch a fun film like Barbie.
S3: It kind of sounds like you watch too much Oppenheimer
S3: And then you're like, Oh, let me do my own
S3: experiment here. Let me put my experiment hat on.
S4: Are you wearing a pork by hat?
S2: I should have actually dressed up as him and just
S2: stared really grimly, ashen faced. We destroyed the world. These films.
S2: I mean, a lot has been written and said about
S2: them already, but the amount of money that particularly Bobbie
S2: made in its opening weekend is absolutely phenomenal. I remember
S2: saying last week's episode that I think could make like
S2: half $1 billion worldwide across its run. It made half
S2: 1 billion AUD worldwide in its opening four days. That
S2: that is completely phenomenal. It made $20 million in Australia,
S2: over $20 million, which, you know, without needing to rattle
S2: off a bunch of numbers for other movies, it's a
S2: lot of money. This is a big, big, big film.
S2: And Oppenheimer as well cracked just over 9 million in Australia.
S2: I don't remember a time where basically everyone I know
S2: was going to the movies in one week and to
S2: see all of these things. I imagine that's similar for
S2: you guys. Your friends, family are all seeing these films.
S4: Yeah, like very few people I know saw both on
S4: the weekend, but almost everyone I know saw one of them.
S4: My wife went and saw Barbie on the weekend with
S4: her mum and sister. We did have a long chat
S4: as she was getting ready to leave. I was like,
S4: I think your mom's going to hate Barbie. I don't
S4: think she thinks because they're all like Girls Day and
S4: they all wore pink. And then she was like, It was.
S4: It was very much that vibe. And I was like,
S4: Just prep your mum that it's not like, you know,
S4: like and Girls Day out.
S3: What was Mama Kate's take on it?
S4: Well, then it kind of turned into an argument where
S4: she was like, No, I should like it. Like, you're
S4: being so like. And now I'm.
S3: Single and we're divorced. Yeah.
S4: And then I haven't seen her since. No, no. But
S4: then I. So as soon as she came out of
S4: the movie, she was like, That was great. I was like,
S4: What did your mum think? And I suspect that she
S4: wasn't telling me the truth because she was like, Oh,
S4: she really liked it full stop. And I was like,
S4: Now you don't want to concede that I was right.
S4: I love that.
S2: We've progressed from talking about your wife to now you
S2: just accusing her of being a liar.
S4: I mean, she gets pretty character assassinated on this part. Anyway.
S2: We sort of were flagging that the discourse for these movies,
S2: particularly Barbie, was going to be kind of unhinged. And it.
S2: Has been like. I don't know if you guys have
S2: seen the clips on Fox News and others were conservatives
S2: are like, I thought Bobby was just as great all
S2: American gal and this is some sort of like men
S2: hating like super woke film that has been like a
S2: part of their action tour. But I think what is
S2: more interesting in a way is despite being kind of
S2: politically divisive, the sheer joy that the film has brought
S2: kind of everyone, it's just, you know, been so popular
S2: and so, so highly watched. I think that says a
S2: lot about the film and the merits of the film.
S2: I was probably a little bit cooler on both of
S2: you last week, but the more I've thought about it,
S2: the more I have come to really, really appreciate and
S2: respect what Greta and Margot did by creating a big,
S2: massive blockbuster success that will be watched by everyone that
S2: talks about like interesting and complicated issues.
S3: But you didn't respect it enough to go and say
S3: the second time I.
S2: I was just trying to boost my guy Nolan's box
S2: office numbers.
S4: He's just an IP boy living.
S2: In an IP world.
S3: Through and through.
S2: So there's been this other set of takes where people like, Well,
S2: this isn't the first time two movies have come out
S2: at the cinema at the same time, and people point
S2: to the double billing of Mamma mia and The Dark
S2: Knight Returns, like about a decade ago. And while that's true,
S2: I think what is interesting and why these two movies
S2: have caught so much attention is that since the pandemic,
S2: since we really stopped going as a society to the theaters,
S2: thanks to streaming, events like this have really been restricted
S2: to superhero kind of blockbuster movies like that, basically. So
S2: I think, sure, things were different ten, 20 years ago,
S2: but in this modern, contemporary kind of film landscape, it
S2: is rare for there to be big releases like this
S2: on the same weekend. It's brought a lot of people
S2: into the movies from the people I've been speaking to
S2: who normally don't go to the movies, and a lot
S2: of them have been saying what's next is like, what
S2: do I go and see? After I've seen Bobby and Oppenheimer?
S2: And I'm like, Well, go see them both again. I
S2: guess I'm interested as to whether you guys think this
S2: could lead to a bit of a revival, a resurgence
S2: of going to the theaters and what you guys think
S2: the next big hits could be over the next few
S2: weeks and months?
S3: Yeah, I think it will. And to the point about
S3: apparently Christopher Nolan really likes this one weekend in July
S3: to release his films, but to Dark Knight and Mamma mia,
S3: I don't think that had the same level of excitement.
S3: And I loved the footage around Australia of like queues
S3: out the door of cinemas. I don't know if you
S3: saw those images of people dying to get in there
S3: and sessions being sold out and I just can't really
S3: remember that kind of excitement or interest in a film
S3: for a long time. And I do think for people
S3: who for many people this might be their first time
S3: back into a cinema because they didn't want to wait
S3: for it to go on streaming, they want it to
S3: be part of the cultural conversation. Now, I think it
S3: might remind them about why they do like going to
S3: the cinema and how seeing a film can be a
S3: part of a can be part of a great day
S3: and a great night out.
S4: Yeah, I think so. I love seeing all that footage
S4: of like people kind of lining up and stuff, I reckon.
S4: I mean, it'd be smart and I'm sure like distributors
S4: around the world are looking at this. Bob and Haim
S4: are phenomenal and being like, okay, maybe we should talk
S4: to some of you guys and like, let's line up
S4: some very different films and try and recreate the magic
S4: of this, like, weird dual release date. I mean, I
S4: had a look at what's coming up at the like
S4: the rest of the year. I think the only thing
S4: we can get close to is like the big release
S4: of the Willy Wonka film starring Timothee Chalamet, being directed
S4: by Paul King, Asteroid City.
S3: Wes Anderson is coming out next month. I think that
S3: will be big again. He seems to divide people more
S3: and people seem to know a bit more what they're
S3: getting with Wes Anderson Yeah, but I think that will
S3: be another big release to look forward to. If you're like,
S3: I want to go and see something.
S4: Now, I think the and with like because I think
S4: with the Wonka one, there's like Napoleon coming out very
S4: near to it. So those two kind of similar thing
S4: to Barbie Oppenheimer you've got like Napoleon for the serious,
S4: you know, like Nolan has. Yeah, yeah. We're standing outside
S4: of cinema waiting for everyone to come out. And then
S4: you've got like Willy Wonka, which is kind of like
S4: the surreal, crazy, you know, type of film. So that'll
S4: be interesting to see if people get around that. But
S4: I think, yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if we start
S4: to see more of this, like playing off two different
S4: kind of like tastes and like audiences against each other
S4: and trying to create a bit of a buzz around films. Yeah.
S3: And I reckon Bobby set the benchmark as well for
S3: marketing and advertising. Even today. This morning I was seeing
S3: that they've kind of put a giant 3D Barbie that's
S3: stepping out of its box overseas. You know, they're still
S3: going with this campaign. I think it's really shown film
S3: producers and companies how important the campaigns can be and
S3: making that kind of momentous event that everyone can gather around.
S3: So I hope we'll see more interesting advertising and promotion
S3: from this.
S2: Yeah, the big asterisks over all of this is that
S2: just at the time where everyone is getting really excited
S2: about going to the movies, Hollywood is on strike and
S2: that is leading to some films being pulled from release.
S2: We were talking, Mel, earlier this week about challenges, the new.
S2: Film starring Zendaya, directed by Luca Guadagnino from. Call Me
S2: By Your Name. That was supposed to come out in
S2: the next few weeks. That's been pushed back to May
S2: next year. Is that right?
S3: Yeah, yeah, yeah. April, I think. And also the dry sequel,
S3: which was going to be the big Australian film, and
S3: it was really important for Australian cinema, I think it was.
S3: We've had a bad year in terms of Australian films
S3: at the box office and this was meant to kind
S3: of be be a good moment. That's been also delayed
S3: because some of the cast and crew are part of
S3: the SAG Guild.
S2: Okay, So fingers crossed that we still managed to get Napoleon.
S2: I mean, I'm not that hype about Wonka. I'm getting
S2: real Cats energy from the trailer.
S4: I'm surprised. I thought you would have been about that.
S4: I'm mostly keen to say Hugh Grant.
S2: As that is what was so weird about it. I mean,
S2: if it leans into how weird and wacky it seems,
S2: but I just feel that it might pull its punches
S2: and end up falling a little bit flat. But there's
S2: a fair bit to look forward to. Hopefully those big
S2: releases is also Scorseses Killers of the Flower Moon, starring
S2: basically everyone who wasn't in Oppenheimer that's coming out and
S2: June 2nd as well. So there's a lot more to
S2: look forward to. If you've recently become a fan of
S2: the cinema and we'll be talking about them in the
S2: next few weeks and months. But let's Pivot to the Bear,
S2: The main focus of today's episode, season two of the
S2: restaurant focused drama to created and written by Christopher Storer
S2: and starring Jeremy Alan White. It's finally out here. We're
S2: not going to complain about the delay again. We've done
S2: that on enough podcasts. We're going to talk about the
S2: first half of the second season episodes 1 to 5.
S2: Thomas The Bear is basically your Oppenheimer. Talk us through this, this,
S2: this return of the show. Where are we picking up from?
S2: What's driving this season and how do you think it
S2: sort of measuring up?
S4: Yeah, obviously the bear season two was phenomenal. Let me
S4: just put that out there. So essentially, season two very
S4: much picks up where season one left off. So at
S4: the end of season one, Carmy and the crew find
S4: basically $300,000 hidden in tomato cans from commies older brother.
S4: And then they use that money to essentially the final
S4: closing shot we see in season one is Carmy, putting
S4: a closed sign on the original beef land of Chicago,
S4: and he puts up a sign that says The bear
S4: coming soon. And that's basically where season two picks up.
S4: The plan is to use that money to expand the
S4: business and open a fine dining restaurant called The Bear,
S4: named after Carmy Bizzaro and his brother. It was kind
S4: of their original idea to do this together. And I
S4: guess like that frame Season two, we get a very
S4: early speech from Richie about purpose, and the season very
S4: much is about purpose and self-improvement and not in a
S4: saccharine way, but we'll get to that because I know
S4: Mel thinks it's too saccharine, but it's very much a,
S4: you know, a season driven by wanting to improve yourself
S4: and and trying, I guess, against the odds to work
S4: together and do something great. Even if you don't come
S4: from somewhere great, maybe. And essentially, that's where we see
S4: all the characters. Everyone has their own kind of journey.
S4: So Carmy and said are working together to start the bear.
S4: Marcus He goes on a journey of self-improvement to Tina
S4: and Ibrahim, go to culinary school. Richie is also doing
S4: his thing. And then you've also got Natalie, which is
S4: Carmy sister. She becomes part of the business. So it's
S4: an expanded show both in terms of the roles for
S4: the ensemble cast, but also in terms of the actual episodes.
S4: We go from 8 to 10. And yeah, that's, that's
S4: kind of where the first five episodes place us. Essentially
S4: the team is back together. The original plan of Chicago
S4: is no more, and the plan is to start the
S4: bear in a very, very tight timeline. They go they
S4: give themselves three months to open.
S2: Mel Thomas and I had been talking earlier in the
S2: year about our anxiety, about the return of the show
S2: because the first season was so tight and complete, it
S2: had this really specific story I wanted to tell. It
S2: came out of nowhere. It blew us all away. We
S2: were really happy and then the like. And the Bear
S2: gang is going to be back and it's like, Oh no,
S2: what will happen here? We're all a bit nervous. How
S2: do you feel about the second season of the show?
S3: Look, and I am a bit nervous about speaking my
S3: truth here because when I came in yesterday and I
S3: told Thomas my reaction to Thomas, the.
S2: Head shaking immediately, very quickly, he was.
S3: Like, I've never seen Thomas look so genuinely hurt. And
S3: he was like, to use a cooking metaphor, he was
S3: bit like an apple crumble that had folded in on himself.
S2: He's wearing his white shirt. I've got to say, every
S2: time I watch that show, I can't see Alan Watt anymore.
S2: I just see Thomas and I see Thomas watching him
S2: and getting excited and smiling when, like, commies doing things. Yeah,
S2: I know.
S3: He's like, gaslit us into thinking they're the same person.
S4: Oh, my God. This is totally driven by you to
S4: this car.
S2: You're wearing a white shirt right now and.
S3: You have talked about this show consistently, but when are
S3: you not talking about the show? It's more significant when
S3: you're not discussing it.
S2: Okay.
S4: Let's just get to the like crux of it. You
S4: called it the new Ted lasso.
S2: Okay.
S3: Okay. That's and I want to disclaim we are only
S3: discussing the first five episodes and I know there are
S3: some pretty stellar episodes to come, so my position next
S3: week might change. I'll also disclaimer this by saying I
S3: think it's a great show, probably the best show on
S3: TV at the moment.
S2: Don't let him bully you, Mel. You're allowed to speak
S2: your truth. You don't have to preface everything you say.
S3: Yeah, he's got very short temper like Kami.
S4: Thank God. No, the real issue here is that you
S4: don't like it because there's so many working class people
S4: in the show.
S2: Okay, okay. Not a single book being, right? Actually, that's
S2: not true. There is a book being read.
S3: Yeah, that is true. And I'm ready to talk about
S3: Coach K. Like we can go into that, but. Right, great.
S2: All right. We'll let you actually say what you don't like.
S3: Look, my overall feeling is that it's just become a
S3: bit too kind of a show. And I do think
S3: it's not Ted Lasso and it's Ted. Lasso is a
S3: different show. But if you really look at it, it's
S3: the same mission. It's about a group of underdogs all
S3: trying to do this impossible task together, and they're all
S3: on their individual journeys of discovery, as well as a
S3: group journey of discovery. So it's really is the same
S3: journey they're on. And I don't know, I missed the
S3: clatter and clanging of the first season. I missed being
S3: in the kitchen. I missed the tempers. I missed the
S3: kind of everything falling apart of that. And it's just
S3: become too sweet and too earnest. And I hate shows
S3: that moralize like I hate shows that spell out a
S3: message like, Everyone's got this. Really, Tina? Tina just needs
S3: to be built up by going to this culinary school.
S3: Everyone can do everything. Sydney needs to learn to stand
S3: on her own and find her own kind of confidence
S3: in cooking. Like, I don't know, it's just give me
S3: Oppenheimer every day. That's the real world. Give me like
S3: the world turning on you when you gave it what
S3: it wanted. I don't know. It's just too sweet.
S2: So I've been keeping my powder dry. Neither of you
S2: guys know how I feel about this. Isn't really.
S4: Yes, but if you don't like it, I'm on strike.
S2: I'm going to say. Yeah, Mel, I think you're wrong.
S2: Like I'm.
S4: Yes, Come.
S2: On. I'm a lot closer to Thomas on this one.
S2: I don't think. I don't think your description of the
S2: show is wrong at all. And, you know, I think
S2: that is what this show is. But I also think
S2: there's a reason why the first season of Ted Lasso
S2: landed and why it felt different to so much other heavy,
S2: grim prestige stuff out there. I think the bear is
S2: much better than Ted lasso on my view, but it
S2: has what you've got. But it also is more complicated.
S2: Like the characters aren't quite as saccharine as Ted Lasso.
S2: The writing isn't quite as sort of like, Oh gee,
S2: willikers everyone, you know, there's a little bit more going
S2: on there. And I think what I like about this
S2: season is the broadening out. As Tom has put it,
S2: the ensemble is like much more, you know, part of
S2: the show. Like there's an episode that we'll talk about
S2: a bit later where Connie is not in it at all.
S2: In fact, it's just Marcus's character. And there are so
S2: many extended periods where you don't see carmy. You just
S2: see these other characters. So I think a really interesting,
S2: really complex we find out more about their inner lives.
S2: It reminds me of like shows in the olden days,
S2: like network TV shows where you just have a concept,
S2: like there's a restaurant or they all live together or whatever,
S2: but that's really just an excuse to get to know
S2: these half a dozen people, throw them in different situations
S2: and see how they react. And I think the bears
S2: closer to that than a lot of TV we've had lately.
S2: And I kind of think it's one of these shows
S2: where I would love like 20 episodes a year of
S2: this to just go deep and have different episodes like
S2: a Marcus episode, a ten episode, whatever, and go through
S2: some like funny moments, some darker moments. I think the
S2: structure of the show is there, but because of the
S2: streaming era we kind of live in, it's still contained
S2: to first date, then ten apps. I do have some
S2: mainly kind of like food related gripes to like what
S2: is going on, But we'll get to that in a minute.
S2: But but Thomas, I feel like you are itching for
S2: a chance to return serve to.
S4: Uh, no. I mean, look, if you really look.
S5: At the little apple crumble.
S4: If you listen to what I said, I mean, listen
S4: to what you said, it kind of is the same thing.
S4: But I just don't see that as an issue because
S4: I don't think I'm as jaded or whatever.
S3: Yeah. And to be fair, I don't think like it's
S3: a much, much, much better show than Ted Lasso. And
S3: I do think it's a good show and one of
S3: the best shows on TV at the moment, but I'm
S3: just not quite in your camp. If this is the
S3: best thing culture has ever produced and will ever produce.
S4: Yeah, I guess. I think what I like though is
S4: because I think it's fine to have a show that
S4: is a little bit sweet or it is about like
S4: a bunch of people trying to do better or trying
S4: to improve themselves. But I think like the way it's
S4: handled in the Bear is so much real. And what
S4: I really liked is like, you know, season one was
S4: very much about the cooking and like saving this restaurant
S4: and it was amazing and we all loved it and
S4: we loved the chaos of it. But then season two is,
S4: which I think if you're in the creative industry, you
S4: can appreciate it very much, is it shifts from like
S4: being in the kitchen and cooking to then actually like
S4: what it's like to try and create something from scratch.
S4: And I love that idea and I love, you know,
S4: like the anxiety I get watching them talk about like
S4: the bills that need to be paid, like the constant,
S4: like updating the calendar with like this and this and
S4: everything's falling apart and but like, they're all just like,
S4: doing this, like, horrific grind because they really want to.
S4: Come out of the other end with something that they've made.
S4: And I think that really appeals to a lot of people.
S4: And on top of that, I also really think it's
S4: impressive that they have The Bear was kind of famous
S4: for its like chaotic speed and everything was always happening
S4: all at once. Whereas this season they've mixed two different
S4: speeds and tones, like, you know, the Marcus episode or
S4: a few other moments in the show, like when Sydney
S4: kind of does her food tour of Chicago and she's
S4: trying to get inspiration, that's like it's almost like slow TV,
S4: like it's like meditative and the music matches it and
S4: it's like very just like it kind of pours over you.
S4: And then at the same time, we still have the
S4: chaos of them trying to get the bear up and running.
S4: You know?
S2: Richie Basically every scene with Richie where he just screams
S2: like my heart races.
S4: Richie and fake talking to each other is just like
S4: anxiety inducing. So yeah, I just I think also what
S4: has impressed me so much and a lot of other
S4: people in my echo chamber, which is where I get
S4: all of my views from, is that the bear has like,
S4: you know, second season syndrome is real and the bear
S4: has like taken a swing for something different and kind
S4: of pulled it off.
S3: But doesn't it doesn't annoy you like you don't feel
S3: that they are forcing a learning down your throat and
S3: the learning is really obvious. Like they all have to
S3: do a little something to discover a little something about themselves.
S3: I think that's what drives me mad that it's so unsubtle.
S2: Yeah, I've got some questions about some of that stuff,
S2: but I think what pulls me back in is character like.
S2: Tina right, who we've seen her arc over the course
S2: of the first season and then the first half of
S2: this season where she was really skeptical. And then she
S2: started to realize that actually this could work and she's
S2: going to use her natural talent and like listen and become,
S2: I guess, a more professional, serious chef. Like, that's a
S2: cool story. And there's a moment where, like, carmy, like,
S2: gives her his knife and she's like, Oh, chef, this
S2: is your knife. I just wanted another knife. He's like,
S2: It's yours now. And her face lights up. And that's
S2: a beautiful thing to say. And like, maybe it is
S2: like obvious or whatever, but that's a character I'm invested in.
S2: I've been invested in for like over a year right now,
S2: and she is experiencing something really amazing and we're seeing
S2: that growth being shown rather than than told. And I'm like,
S2: What else do I want from TV? Really?
S4: Yeah, me too. Like, I think, I mean, you and
S4: I probably differ in that I'm probably happier to suspend
S4: disbelief for certain things. Like this is not succession, you know,
S4: and that's fine. As much as I love succession, still
S4: processing the trauma from that show. But you know, I'm
S4: okay to be like this. This can be a little bit,
S4: you know, unbelievable. And even I don't really think it is.
S4: But like the fact that there is maybe like a
S4: message in each episode that doesn't really like faze me.
S4: I also don't I don't think that there is as
S4: much learning as it may be. Seems to be like
S4: Carmy is making all the same mistakes as far as
S4: we can see that he made in season one. Like
S4: the big kind of like is he he's.
S3: Having a journey of self-discovery with his new girlfriend.
S4: No, we'll get to her. But no, but like at
S4: the end of season one, he has a big fight
S4: with Sydney and she leaves. And then, you know, the
S4: end of season one, she. She comes back, he apologizes,
S4: and then they make this decision to go all in
S4: together as partners on the bear. And then, you know,
S4: we've seen the first five episodes and it's very obvious that.
S2: A lot of tension.
S4: So much tension and he's not really it's like is
S4: not a bad guy in the way of other kind
S4: of like anti-heroes that we get in TV as a.
S3: Representative of Carmy and he's kind speaking.
S4: Speaking for me and and the calm cool No but
S4: like he's he's almost like too much of a, like,
S4: insular genius chef guy that he can't like he doesn't
S4: realize what he's doing to people around. Yeah, his.
S2: Flaws are really obvious. And they let him make them
S2: again and again. And we're supposed to be a bit
S2: annoyed at him. I think, throughout a lot of the
S2: first half of this season.
S4: Yeah. And I really enjoying the Syd and Carmy kind
S4: of dynamic so far.
S3: Yeah, I will agree that that relationship I think is
S3: really interesting and they've done a great job in developing
S3: that from the first season.
S2: I want to ask about a couple of things that
S2: I think make absolutely no sense in this show, and
S2: I think it normally wouldn't annoy me that much, but
S2: I thought the first show was so good at being
S2: so visceral and so gritty and really recreating that sense
S2: of chaos in a kitchen like that. And it was
S2: praised by people from the hospice scene around the world.
S2: And then this one, it's a little bit more ambitious
S2: because they're building their own restaurant. Two things here that
S2: make no sense to me. The first is, so they're
S2: on this tight budget. They're really stressed. They're in debt
S2: to the uncle, but they've got the money to send
S2: two of their chefs to like cooking school. And then
S2: Marcus just goes to Copenhagen for an and it's like
S2: that meme of like, please, my expenses $100 for electricity,
S2: $200 for water, $1 million for Copenhagen. Like pastry chef,
S2: like no wonder your restaurant is like, maybe you worry
S2: about the walls and the plastering before sending him to learn, like,
S2: delicious pastry cooking in Copenhagen.
S3: And they just gloss over it, don't they? They just say,
S3: oh yes, we've factored this into the budget.
S2: Yeah. And then my second one, so you've got this
S2: great idea to make a fine dining restaurant, but you
S2: have no idea what food you want to cook. That's
S2: like Raoul putting the cart before the horse. It's like,
S2: we want a restaurant. We want it to be great.
S2: We have no idea what the hell we will serve
S2: to people. Kind of keeps talking about chaos. Menu. Chaos
S2: Menu like that is made up term. What does that mean?
S2: And they still don't seem to know what they're doing there.
S2: Maybe it's because I. Think about this stuff too much.
S2: But did either of those things stick out to you guys?
S2: Are we just supposed to roll with it as the
S2: plot point for this season?
S3: Yeah, I agreed in that description of the menu when
S3: when they're like, we don't really when Sidney was trying
S3: to explain it to her dad, it's a bit high.
S3: It's a bit low. It's chaos, but it's ordered. I
S3: kind of think both of them wouldn't they have real
S3: clear visions of chefs about the kind of food they
S3: want to create? As I was going to ask you,
S3: obviously one of the big plot points is Sydney really
S3: wants to get a star. Do you care much about
S3: stars as a restauranteur yourself?
S2: Well, there is. I think there's a moment of conversation
S2: with her and another chef that I found so interesting
S2: and so smart is getting a star or what? We're
S2: in Australia with the good food guide here called Hats
S2: is almost like a blessing and a curse because obviously
S2: it says that you as a chef and as a restaurant,
S2: front of house team, all of that have created something
S2: really special that deserves to be highlighted and people should come.
S2: But once you have that, you can only lose it, right?
S2: You either keep it or you lose it. And so
S2: the pressure and stress you get, I think it's actually
S2: carmy maybe that talks to Syd about this, about the
S2: tension of, well, now it's not just can we get it,
S2: it's how do we not lose it? And that can
S2: really change the dynamic. And you hear a lot of
S2: chefs talk about the pressure and the stress that that
S2: leads to. So it's like a poisoned chalice in a way.
S2: And I think the show is really smart at grappling
S2: with with that part of chef.
S4: I would say I think you're right in terms of
S4: the menu thing. Like, you know, Carmy is a essentially
S4: like a bit of a hotshot in the fine dining scene.
S4: He would have an idea of the food he wants
S4: to cook. But I guess that would again, you know,
S4: I'm obviously somehow I found myself the defender of the bear.
S4: I guess for the sake of good TV, it makes
S4: for a better storyline that they are creating the menu
S4: while also doing all this other stuff. I do think
S4: that I didn't have as much of an issue with
S4: like them sending the guys to school and Marcus going
S4: to Copenhagen because I think it's pretty clear like that
S4: Uncle Jimmy has a fair bit of cash and they're
S4: obviously just like, okay, we're going to borrow as much.
S4: And they set themselves as crazy. Deadline to pay it
S4: back like 18 months. But I don't think like necessarily
S4: the cash flow, like actually getting the money is an
S4: issue like he seems to have a fair bit of money. Also,
S4: I think the Marcus thing like he's he's going there
S4: to work for free. He's staying where Carmy stay. It
S4: seems like there's a lot of favors being called in
S4: and so I don't think that would be crazy expensive.
S2: That is also another really that's a really real thing.
S2: Like a lot of like really great fun dining chefs
S2: who've done stints in Copenhagen. Like, that's what they do.
S2: They find the next upcoming talent and they send them
S2: there to a guy they learnt from. It's a really
S2: cool thing to see. Are your guy directed that episode?
S2: Thomas You want to talk a bit about how you
S2: found that fourth EP?
S4: Yeah, so that's kind of one of the ones that's
S4: had a lot of attention so far. Probably the biggest,
S4: most talked about episode so far is Episode six Fishers,
S4: but we'll talk about that next week. But this is
S4: probably the next one that's created the most buzz. It's
S4: called Honeydew, and it's kind of Marcus's episode. It's a
S4: bottle episode. So essentially we just spend time with him. Yeah,
S4: I think Lionel Boyce, who plays Marcus, is like a
S4: bit of a fan favorite. And, you know, the series
S4: actually opens with him. His mother is in hospital passing away.
S4: And you get the sense that this is a guy
S4: that spent his whole life in Chicago and we slowly
S4: learn about him throughout this episode. But I just think
S4: it's a really beautiful episode. It's directed by Rami Yusuf,
S4: who we all kind of love, his his work and
S4: his show. Rami And it's just like this. He like,
S4: goes out into the world for the first time, essentially.
S4: Like this is a guy who only started making bread
S4: 18 months ago, and now he's really found, I guess,
S4: his purpose passing out from the sickly sweetness of it all. And,
S4: you know, he goes and learns from this chef who
S4: is played by English actor Will Poulter. He plays this chef,
S4: Luca and and their.
S2: Guy from where the Millers. Great film.
S4: It's really sad.
S2: A real glow. A huge glow up this guy.
S4: Yeah, he's kind of like euro carmy like same Patrick
S4: cats and and you know, same kind of like is
S4: he a bad guy? Is he a good guy? He
S4: turns out to be a really great guy. And, you know,
S4: it's a beautiful episode. But one thing I really love
S4: was Luca and Marcus have this conversation about excellence, I think,
S4: which is a fixation in hospitality, and especially if you're
S4: a chef, is this search for excellence and and Luca
S4: kind of talks to him and he's like, look, you know,
S4: I gave up trying to be the best. And that's
S4: when I became the best version of myself or the
S4: best chef I can be. And he actually talks about,
S4: you know, there was this other guy that I was
S4: cooking with in Copenhagen who we assume is probably Carmy,
S4: who worked at at Nomad in the Shows universe. And
S4: basically they talk about, you know, to to try and
S4: be the best as something is a guaranteed way to
S4: drive yourself mad because it's impossible to achieve that. But
S4: what Luca says is that I just tried to be
S4: as close to him as I could be, and that
S4: was a way to improve.
S3: I think it is so good that they got Brené
S3: Brown on the writing team for this.
S2: I love that. Yeah, I was going to say, I
S2: love that Thomas was like taking notes during this and
S2: it was really heartfelt. This is great stuff. How to
S2: be better at meals, just like dry retching into a bucket.
S3: He's like, he's printed them all out around his desk
S3: for when he writes his column. I will say, though,
S3: I did. I really did enjoy all the food shots in.
S3: I like the.
S6: Food.
S2: And they'll just want to watch Chef's Table.
S3: I think so, maybe. And to the point of like
S3: why Cydney had to go on her own arc as
S3: well as Marcus. I do think that did give them
S3: a chance to show different styles of cooking and food
S3: being made and their connection with food, which I thought
S3: was quite good.
S2: One of the few kind of new characters added to
S2: the cast for season two is Molly Gordon, who plays
S2: this character, Claire, who is, I guess, Comey's love interest.
S2: At least that's what we've seen from the first five apps.
S2: I have a feeling that on this one, Mel, you
S2: and I are in more agreement about this character. I
S2: do not like Claire at all as a character. Like
S2: not a knock on Molly Gordon. She's great in Booksmart.
S2: She's doing the best, but she kind of is just
S2: there to like be a girl. For Kami to help
S2: Kami discover life outside of the kitchen, it's very unclear,
S2: like what her motivations are. It's the return to the
S2: manic Pixie dream Girl thing that I think we thought
S2: we left behind in the 2000. Maybe like it gets
S2: a little bit more complicated in the second half of
S2: this season. But just the whole like, I will whisk
S2: you away into this party. That's an episode five and
S2: you'll have this great experience and then you'll open your
S2: eyes and like you'll be a more rounded human being.
S2: Like if she sort of just like, shimmied away and
S2: like went into the background or turned into a bunch
S2: of stars, like, I wouldn't be surprised. I don't think
S2: she's a real person. How do you feel about her?
S3: Yeah, I agree completely with you. And also there were
S3: so many like shots of them or particularly Kami looking
S3: at her.
S4: Like she's very.
S6: Attractive. I was like.
S3: How many more do we need? Like, do you need
S3: to make the male gaze any clearer?
S2: And if they really they really have close ups on
S2: her face when they do that, it's like she's this big, beautiful,
S2: like sunlight in his life and we get it. But
S2: that's also what annoys me about it.
S3: Yeah, agree.
S2: Thomas. I feel like you're, you're just champing at the
S2: bit to say how wrong we are.
S4: Well, I mean, you guys have been wrong the whole episode. So.
S4: Especially you male.
S2: I said, I agree with you.
S4: I think it's a great show. Okay. Firstly, no, I'll
S4: hand up on this one because I, as you know, Mel,
S4: love a manic pixie dream girl both on screen and
S4: in my.
S2: Surprising thing I've ever heard.
S4: Have you guys ever seen Garden State? It's actually pretty groovy.
S6: Yeah.
S4: So, no, Look, I'm here for.
S2: The cop guy.
S4: I do. I do see what you're saying. I was, like,
S4: not surprised. They decided to introduce a love interest for
S4: Kami because it was such a big thing in the
S4: first season that they did it, and everyone was so, like,
S4: thirsty for Kami anyway. And I think it would have
S4: been no, but like, you know, the whole yes, chef thing, blah, blah, blah.
S4: The internet was like, Oh, it's so sexy, even though
S4: there was like no sex. But I had a feeling
S4: they would not do that again. And I like it.
S4: I mean, like, what you're saying is all probably valid,
S4: but I'm never going to complain about two really good
S4: looking people staring at each other at a party for ages. Like,
S4: I'm cool with that and I enjoy the vibe. Like
S4: Kami is a fucking weirdo. Like he gives her the
S4: wrong number. He's obviously he needs some coaxing out and
S4: I think they do. Like they probably don't do a
S4: good enough job, but they do try and set up that.
S4: There is a backstory and this comes in like later
S4: as well, that there is a backstory to Kami and
S4: Claire that extends beyond their meeting up at the fridge
S4: and bumping into each other or whatever. So yeah, like
S4: I don't have an issue with it.
S2: I do like when she interacts with like his sister
S2: and with cousin, and that sort of speaks to this
S2: broader world. I think that's what the show is. One
S2: of the best things about the show really, is when
S2: you see these like bits connecting together and it really
S2: makes you feel like this world is real. And these
S2: characters have been around for decades and know each other.
S2: And I think that's to go back to our earlier
S2: point about why I think it could be like a
S2: 20 episode sort of show each season is I just
S2: love feeling like comfortable in that sort of environment. I
S2: want to watch something where I'm like, Great, this is real.
S2: This is fun. Low stakes Chicago food. I love the
S2: family history. I love the romance stuff. That's what brings
S2: me the most joy.
S3: And in terms of like plot development, it's probably quite
S3: handy to have a doctor on the cast as well
S3: because there are a lot of injuries going on in
S3: the restaurant.
S2: Yeah, Richie is going to kill himself and everyone else
S2: involved by the time the restaurant is built. Okay, so
S2: we've been talking about episodes 1 to 5. There's five
S2: more after that. And the very next episode, Episode six
S2: is the one that's got the most hype, I think
S2: because of the guest cast, because of the way it's
S2: sort of been kind of shot and told Thomas, Give
S2: us a bit of a preview of like what's in
S2: store for the rest of this season.
S4: Yes, well, firstly, I fucking lost my mind watching episode six.
S4: It's so good. It's so good.
S3: Do you think it will change? Do you think it
S3: will change my mind? I'll come back next week with them. Yeah,
S3: because I.
S4: Think you're kind of like. You're like, let me use
S4: a few genealogy. You're like a really well done steak.
S4: You're beyond taste now.
S6: Yeah.
S4: No, I think.
S3: I'm going to have to sit with that.
S6: One.
S2: Now, if you want to make a calendar, invite with
S2: me to talk about that comment. I'm more than.
S6: Happy to.
S4: Put it on the giant calendar next to like opening soon.
S4: And no episode six really is amazing though. And I
S4: think lot of people are talking about that. That is
S4: essentially where we will see all these incredible guest stars
S4: that have been hyped. So we've got Jamie Lee Curtis,
S4: Gillian Jacobs, John Mulaney, Sarah Paulson.
S2: Everyone who isn't in Killers of the Flower Moon or
S2: an Oppenheimer six of the Bear.
S6: Season two, like.
S4: The WhatsApp thread, will light up as soon as.
S6: Right. Guaranteed. Yeah.
S4: And then and of course, we'll be covering the other
S4: four episodes on the end of the series. Yeah. So
S4: I'm very excited for that. Naturally, as, as the only
S4: person allowed to do bear PR right now because the
S4: rest of the cast is on strike. Yeah, that's what's
S4: coming next week.
S2: All right. So we'll be back next week with our
S2: second kind of deep dive on the show. And who knows,
S2: probably still some more. Bobby and Oppenheimer wash up just
S2: because I have a feeling they'll be takes coming thick
S2: and fast and there'll be a lot more to be
S2: said about how many people are watching these films. Thomas Michel,
S2: as usual, thank you both so much.
S3: Thank you, chef. Let it rip.
S2: This episode of The Drop was produced by Kai Wong.
S2: If you enjoyed listening to today's episode of The Drop,
S2: make sure to follow us in your favorite podcast app.
S2: Leave us a review or better yet, share it with
S2: a friend. I'm Osman Farooqui. See you next week.