1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:03,400 S1: Hi, it's Samantha Selinger Morris here. And I'm the host 2 00:00:03,400 --> 00:00:06,880 S1: of the Morning Edition. We're bringing you the best episodes 3 00:00:06,880 --> 00:00:11,039 S1: of 2025 before your Morning Edition team returns next week. 4 00:00:12,119 --> 00:00:15,840 S1: Last May, the incumbent labor government swept to power while 5 00:00:15,840 --> 00:00:19,880 S1: the Liberal Party suffered an election wipeout, with women voters 6 00:00:19,880 --> 00:00:24,520 S1: in particular shunning the party. In this episode, recorded just 7 00:00:24,520 --> 00:00:28,880 S1: after the election result, political and international editor Peter Hartcher 8 00:00:28,920 --> 00:00:33,240 S1: traces the liberals surprising history of embracing the female vote 9 00:00:33,240 --> 00:00:38,960 S1: and how that crucial vote was lost in 2025. Okay, Peter, 10 00:00:38,960 --> 00:00:40,920 S1: I was hoping you could take us back to when 11 00:00:40,920 --> 00:00:44,520 S1: this problem between the Liberal Party and Australian women began, 12 00:00:44,560 --> 00:00:46,839 S1: because we know that the party itself was formed in 13 00:00:46,840 --> 00:00:49,680 S1: part through the efforts of highly organised and powerful women's groups, 14 00:00:49,680 --> 00:00:53,559 S1: and the party's founder, Robert Menzies, directed that specific leadership 15 00:00:53,560 --> 00:00:56,400 S1: roles be reserved for women. So I guess maybe start 16 00:00:56,400 --> 00:00:59,360 S1: there before we then get into what happened. 17 00:00:59,400 --> 00:01:02,560 S2: What's gone wrong? Yeah. Menzies designed the Liberal Party to 18 00:01:02,600 --> 00:01:06,559 S2: be a party big enough for everyone, including women and women, 19 00:01:06,560 --> 00:01:08,840 S2: were an essential part. He thought a vital part of 20 00:01:08,840 --> 00:01:12,720 S2: the Liberal Party from the very beginning. The first woman 21 00:01:12,720 --> 00:01:15,480 S2: to enter the House of Representatives was for the Liberal Party, 22 00:01:15,680 --> 00:01:20,600 S2: Enid Lyons. The first Labour woman was Dorothy Tangney, who 23 00:01:20,600 --> 00:01:23,320 S2: entered the Senate at the same election as Enid Lyons 24 00:01:23,319 --> 00:01:28,800 S2: in 1943. But the two parties diverge there because when 25 00:01:28,800 --> 00:01:33,399 S2: Dorothy Tangney eventually retired from Parliament in 1968, she was 26 00:01:33,400 --> 00:01:36,720 S2: still the only Labour woman in the parliament, but there 27 00:01:36,720 --> 00:01:40,200 S2: were five Liberal women in the parliament by then, and 28 00:01:40,240 --> 00:01:42,840 S2: there was a reason that the Liberal Party put a 29 00:01:42,840 --> 00:01:45,120 S2: huge emphasis on women. Apart from wanting to be a 30 00:01:45,120 --> 00:01:48,840 S2: successful political party and wanting to appeal to half the country. Yeah, 31 00:01:48,880 --> 00:01:50,640 S2: that's a small detail. Yeah. 32 00:01:50,680 --> 00:01:51,240 S1: No biggie. 33 00:01:51,280 --> 00:01:54,920 S2: That's right. And they didn't have to rediscover the existence 34 00:01:54,920 --> 00:01:57,480 S2: of this exotic species called women. That's right. They knew 35 00:01:57,480 --> 00:02:00,510 S2: it from the from the outset. Uh, One of the 36 00:02:00,510 --> 00:02:03,070 S2: big philosophical reasons is that this was the era when 37 00:02:03,110 --> 00:02:07,910 S2: communism was the big threat, and Menzies was the anti-communist, 38 00:02:07,950 --> 00:02:11,790 S2: the staunch anti-communist campaigner against what he saw as labour 39 00:02:11,790 --> 00:02:16,430 S2: and its pernicious subjugation to to socialism and communism. And 40 00:02:16,430 --> 00:02:20,790 S2: women were seen to be a more conservative, socially conservative 41 00:02:21,070 --> 00:02:25,109 S2: force and therefore politically conservative than Labour. So that's why 42 00:02:25,110 --> 00:02:27,990 S2: it was so important to the early Liberal Party to 43 00:02:28,030 --> 00:02:32,350 S2: make sure women were on side and they were, uh, 44 00:02:32,550 --> 00:02:35,389 S2: the Labor Party really only caught up on the whole 45 00:02:35,389 --> 00:02:39,910 S2: women thing in the 1990s. So it's a recent phenomenon 46 00:02:40,070 --> 00:02:44,510 S2: that the Liberal Party has failed to appeal to women 47 00:02:44,910 --> 00:02:46,590 S2: and Labour Party has succeeded. 48 00:02:46,630 --> 00:02:48,630 S1: Okay. So I'm going to get into what happened at 49 00:02:48,630 --> 00:02:51,310 S1: the election. But when did it start to go wrong? 50 00:02:51,350 --> 00:02:53,870 S1: The Liberal Party obviously had that incredible beginning, I guess 51 00:02:53,870 --> 00:02:56,669 S1: with regards to women. So when did it start to 52 00:02:56,830 --> 00:02:57,950 S1: go seriously wrong? 53 00:02:58,110 --> 00:03:02,709 S2: The peak of the Liberal women's vote, where the Liberal 54 00:03:02,710 --> 00:03:05,350 S2: Party had its greatest share of women voting for it 55 00:03:05,350 --> 00:03:12,549 S2: was in 1996. Uh Howard era. And as recently as 2001. 56 00:03:12,910 --> 00:03:17,190 S2: I suppose that's recent. Uh, most women still voted liberal, 57 00:03:18,430 --> 00:03:22,910 S2: and it's just continued to decline from 1996 onwards. It's 58 00:03:22,910 --> 00:03:27,270 S2: been gradual, but it's accelerated. So at the last election, um, 59 00:03:27,590 --> 00:03:31,230 S2: we know from the Australian Electoral Study, uh, produced out 60 00:03:31,230 --> 00:03:35,670 S2: of the Anu, that only about a third of Australian 61 00:03:35,670 --> 00:03:40,510 S2: women voted for the Liberal Party. Yet women make up 62 00:03:40,510 --> 00:03:43,110 S2: by a slim margin the majority of the country. So 63 00:03:43,150 --> 00:03:46,070 S2: how can the Liberal Party hope to win office again? 64 00:03:46,070 --> 00:03:48,950 S2: And then at this latest election? We don't know for sure, 65 00:03:49,150 --> 00:03:52,710 S2: but indications are it was around the same and perhaps 66 00:03:52,710 --> 00:03:56,430 S2: a little less. And once again, two consecutive elections now 67 00:03:56,670 --> 00:04:02,220 S2: where women of every age group voted in majority Labour 68 00:04:02,580 --> 00:04:05,580 S2: and not Liberal. The liberals, in other words, can't get 69 00:04:05,580 --> 00:04:09,300 S2: women of any age to vote for them in majority anymore. 70 00:04:09,580 --> 00:04:11,820 S1: And just before we move on, was there anything that 71 00:04:11,820 --> 00:04:15,020 S1: happened around 96, 2001? Was there any sort of major 72 00:04:15,020 --> 00:04:18,020 S1: scandal or anything that sort of sparked the women's turn 73 00:04:18,020 --> 00:04:20,620 S1: away from the Liberal Party or not really? 74 00:04:20,860 --> 00:04:24,860 S2: Not really. It was, um, it was a gradual transformation 75 00:04:24,860 --> 00:04:29,539 S2: of the Liberal Party. One of the big debates you'll remember, uh, 76 00:04:29,540 --> 00:04:35,460 S2: in in Howard and the transition then to Rudd was, um, 77 00:04:35,700 --> 00:04:41,060 S2: climate change, where Howard initially resisted recognizing the problem or 78 00:04:41,060 --> 00:04:45,539 S2: doing anything about it, whereas labor campaigned on it. Uh, 79 00:04:45,779 --> 00:04:48,419 S2: and ultimately it was a big vote winner for labor 80 00:04:48,420 --> 00:04:53,020 S2: for Rudd. And it was such a compelling case politically, 81 00:04:53,020 --> 00:04:55,020 S2: to do something about it that Howard changed his position 82 00:04:55,020 --> 00:04:57,060 S2: and came on board at the last minute before the 83 00:04:57,140 --> 00:05:01,020 S2: 2007 election, women are seen to be more concerned about 84 00:05:01,020 --> 00:05:06,700 S2: the environment than men, and so that was a big 85 00:05:06,740 --> 00:05:11,820 S2: and enduring influence. Can I just point out that in 2018, 86 00:05:12,820 --> 00:05:17,660 S2: Kelly O'Dwyer, who was a cabinet minister in in successive 87 00:05:17,660 --> 00:05:22,660 S2: Liberal governments, she famously told the Liberal Party room that 88 00:05:22,660 --> 00:05:24,580 S2: they were seen. The liberals were seen in the general 89 00:05:24,580 --> 00:05:34,020 S2: public as being homophobic, anti-women, climate deniers. That's devastating. Now, 90 00:05:34,020 --> 00:05:36,540 S2: if if she were to update that today about the 91 00:05:36,540 --> 00:05:39,900 S2: Liberal Party's image, I think we can probably assume that 92 00:05:39,900 --> 00:05:43,340 S2: she would say the Liberal Party today is seen as 93 00:05:43,339 --> 00:05:50,420 S2: being transphobic, anti-women, climate deniers. Now that is a deadly 94 00:05:50,420 --> 00:05:54,420 S2: cocktail and the party has completely failed to deal with 95 00:05:54,460 --> 00:05:58,300 S2: with the problem that their own cabinet minister pointed out 96 00:05:58,300 --> 00:05:59,979 S2: to them seven years ago. 97 00:06:00,220 --> 00:06:02,339 S1: Okay, so tell us, just how bad is the result 98 00:06:02,339 --> 00:06:06,100 S1: then with regards to female Liberal MPs in Parliament now 99 00:06:06,140 --> 00:06:07,339 S1: compared to, say, Labour? 100 00:06:07,660 --> 00:06:12,339 S2: Well, although they had an internal review and recommendation ten 101 00:06:12,339 --> 00:06:17,820 S2: years ago recommending that they put up 50% of women candidates, 102 00:06:18,300 --> 00:06:21,940 S2: preselect 50% of women candidates for federal parliament. They went 103 00:06:21,940 --> 00:06:26,900 S2: to this latest election with only a third. So it 104 00:06:26,900 --> 00:06:31,339 S2: was already destined to fail. And of that third, only 105 00:06:31,339 --> 00:06:36,940 S2: a few were actually preselected for or had winnable so-called 106 00:06:36,940 --> 00:06:41,979 S2: winnable seats. And now, as the vote count is coming in, 107 00:06:42,020 --> 00:06:44,300 S2: it's still unfolding. We don't have the full results, but 108 00:06:44,339 --> 00:06:48,500 S2: it looks like there'll be 40 or so Liberal MPs 109 00:06:48,500 --> 00:06:52,060 S2: in the House. Of those there. It's shaping up that 110 00:06:52,060 --> 00:06:56,300 S2: there will be maybe five women. Wow. Five out of 40. 111 00:06:56,339 --> 00:06:58,890 S1: And then in comparison, you've got, you know, Labour. All 112 00:06:58,890 --> 00:07:02,250 S1: seven newly minted Labour MPs in Queensland are women. 113 00:07:02,610 --> 00:07:05,050 S2: Yes, it could be a bit of a clue there. 114 00:07:05,210 --> 00:07:07,210 S2: The other clue that the Liberal Party might pick up 115 00:07:07,210 --> 00:07:11,210 S2: is that in the last, in the last two elections, 116 00:07:11,210 --> 00:07:16,290 S2: excluding Saturdays, they lost seven Liberal heartland formerly Liberal heartland 117 00:07:16,330 --> 00:07:19,250 S2: seats to teal. So-called teal independents. Every one of them 118 00:07:19,250 --> 00:07:22,170 S2: was a woman. Every one of them. Another little clue 119 00:07:22,210 --> 00:07:27,410 S2: there that the liberal heartland was electing women who cared 120 00:07:27,410 --> 00:07:31,210 S2: about guess what their number one priority was? Women. Number two, 121 00:07:31,250 --> 00:07:36,490 S2: climate change. Number three, integrity and the Liberal Party are ignored, 122 00:07:37,010 --> 00:07:41,770 S2: just ignored. All of these signs, their own internal recommendations 123 00:07:42,010 --> 00:07:46,170 S2: for year after year. And now we've reached the culmination point. 124 00:07:46,170 --> 00:07:48,730 S2: Or maybe, maybe it hasn't yet culminated. Maybe if they 125 00:07:48,730 --> 00:07:51,850 S2: fail to act on this problem, it could get worse. 126 00:07:51,890 --> 00:07:56,130 S2: They could become an extinct party like the Australian Democrats 127 00:07:56,130 --> 00:08:00,730 S2: or the Communist Party or the DLP. It's possible this 128 00:08:00,730 --> 00:08:02,490 S2: is how political change happens. 129 00:08:02,530 --> 00:08:04,810 S1: Wow. That's incredible. And you know, you pointed out in 130 00:08:04,810 --> 00:08:08,330 S1: your column that Peter Dutton's campaign specifically was very male centric. 131 00:08:08,370 --> 00:08:11,770 S1: You know, he was constantly photographed driving trucks, pumping petrol 132 00:08:11,770 --> 00:08:13,890 S1: in cars, wearing high vis. You know, it was sort 133 00:08:13,890 --> 00:08:16,690 S1: of like the fast and the furious minus the muscles 134 00:08:16,690 --> 00:08:18,690 S1: and the bikini clad women and. 135 00:08:18,730 --> 00:08:20,170 S2: Well, it was furious without the fast. 136 00:08:20,210 --> 00:08:21,610 S3: Yeah, exactly, exactly. 137 00:08:22,290 --> 00:08:24,530 S1: So was it really his policies that did him in 138 00:08:24,530 --> 00:08:27,130 S1: specifically at this election? You know, as opposed to the optics, 139 00:08:27,170 --> 00:08:29,850 S1: obviously weren't great in terms of appealing to women, perhaps. 140 00:08:29,890 --> 00:08:32,490 S2: Well, it was both. So it was the party organisation 141 00:08:32,490 --> 00:08:36,290 S2: only putting up pre-selecting a third of their candidates as women. 142 00:08:36,290 --> 00:08:40,849 S2: It was the policy offering and the single most powerful 143 00:08:41,490 --> 00:08:44,850 S2: signal to women that the Liberal Party weren't interested in 144 00:08:44,890 --> 00:08:48,330 S2: them was the working from home policy, which the liberals 145 00:08:48,330 --> 00:08:51,250 S2: announced a bit over a month before the campaign proper 146 00:08:51,250 --> 00:08:54,290 S2: kicked in. And that it was it was very deliberate. 147 00:08:54,809 --> 00:08:57,370 S2: Jane Hume launched it with a speech where she set 148 00:08:57,410 --> 00:09:00,370 S2: up the whole argument for it, in which, by the way, 149 00:09:01,370 --> 00:09:04,890 S2: there was no evidence that the policy was to require 150 00:09:04,890 --> 00:09:08,090 S2: all federal public servants based in Canberra to come to 151 00:09:08,130 --> 00:09:10,650 S2: the office five days a week. And it was a 152 00:09:10,650 --> 00:09:13,170 S2: great long speech she gave about it. The only evidence 153 00:09:13,170 --> 00:09:17,370 S2: was a one research paper from Stanford University in the 154 00:09:17,370 --> 00:09:20,609 S2: US talking about a different country in a different system, 155 00:09:21,130 --> 00:09:24,330 S2: not the Australian public service. And based on that, they 156 00:09:24,330 --> 00:09:27,290 S2: announced this policy. It sent a huge signal that the 157 00:09:27,290 --> 00:09:31,850 S2: party was anti-women, of course, because women have benefited so 158 00:09:31,850 --> 00:09:34,370 S2: much from working from home. And although the policy itself 159 00:09:34,370 --> 00:09:37,490 S2: only applied to the federal public service, it just sent 160 00:09:37,490 --> 00:09:39,890 S2: the signal that the Liberal Party is against working from home. 161 00:09:39,890 --> 00:09:42,170 S2: And if they're going to start with the federal public service, 162 00:09:42,210 --> 00:09:45,810 S2: where does it end? So that was a huge problem. 163 00:09:45,809 --> 00:09:49,210 S2: And then that just kept rolling through into the campaign 164 00:09:49,210 --> 00:09:53,570 S2: and the optics and the whole the whole whole disaster. 165 00:09:54,010 --> 00:09:57,079 S1: And it's safe to say that women really did revolt. 166 00:09:57,080 --> 00:09:59,720 S1: I think I saw some research put out by Redbridge 167 00:09:59,720 --> 00:10:02,880 S1: which said that in February they polled people in 20 168 00:10:02,920 --> 00:10:05,520 S1: key marginal seats. The first wave found that Dutton had 169 00:10:05,520 --> 00:10:08,400 S1: a net approval rating of -11 among women, and then 170 00:10:08,400 --> 00:10:11,880 S1: by late April it was down to -28 among women. 171 00:10:11,880 --> 00:10:14,000 S1: And it wasn't nearly as bad among the men. 172 00:10:14,160 --> 00:10:15,480 S2: Yeah, that's absolutely right. 173 00:10:15,480 --> 00:10:19,160 S1: So they just really turned against him, I guess, in response. Okay. 174 00:10:19,200 --> 00:10:23,000 S2: And so isn't it interesting that even in spite of that, 175 00:10:23,480 --> 00:10:26,920 S2: the debate this week about who to replace Peter Dutton 176 00:10:26,920 --> 00:10:32,480 S2: with two of the three leading names are men. I mean, 177 00:10:32,520 --> 00:10:34,280 S2: that would be crazy. We'll see what they do. 178 00:10:34,360 --> 00:10:35,760 S1: Well, this is what I kind of wanted to ask 179 00:10:35,760 --> 00:10:37,640 S1: you about, because we know that five out of seven 180 00:10:37,640 --> 00:10:40,319 S1: leadership positions in the coalition are women, and I think 181 00:10:40,320 --> 00:10:42,000 S1: it's safe to say most of them were pretty much 182 00:10:42,000 --> 00:10:44,080 S1: invisible during the campaign. Like, do you reckon that's a 183 00:10:44,080 --> 00:10:46,800 S1: directive that came from Peter Dutton? What was that about? 184 00:10:46,840 --> 00:10:50,920 S2: Well, Susan Lee, the deputy leader, she she was pretty visible, 185 00:10:51,200 --> 00:10:54,840 S2: but that's very much the exception, right? 186 00:10:54,880 --> 00:10:55,120 S1: Yeah. 187 00:10:55,160 --> 00:10:57,040 S2: The story. Yeah. And so she is, because she was 188 00:10:57,040 --> 00:10:59,920 S2: the deputy leader. Yeah. She is now being talked about 189 00:10:59,920 --> 00:11:04,840 S2: as the only woman possibility to lead the Liberal Party. Um, 190 00:11:05,000 --> 00:11:09,280 S2: they could do worse. They could do worse. But, um, uh, 191 00:11:09,280 --> 00:11:12,160 S2: whoever is the first to take the leadership after this 192 00:11:12,160 --> 00:11:16,880 S2: devastating wipeout will have to be prepared to be sacrificed 193 00:11:16,920 --> 00:11:20,320 S2: on the altar of, um, of a party that's lost 194 00:11:20,320 --> 00:11:23,599 S2: its way. It's going to be full of angry recriminations. 195 00:11:23,600 --> 00:11:28,440 S2: So if whoever is anointed initially is unlikely to get 196 00:11:28,440 --> 00:11:30,920 S2: through to the next election. So if they put Susan 197 00:11:30,920 --> 00:11:33,120 S2: Lee up, she might not make it that far. But 198 00:11:33,120 --> 00:11:33,680 S2: we'll see. 199 00:11:34,280 --> 00:11:36,720 S1: Okay, so why did all of this happen? I'm just 200 00:11:36,720 --> 00:11:39,400 S1: wondering because, you know, we know that the party had 201 00:11:39,400 --> 00:11:43,199 S1: its own internal review after the 2022 election, and it 202 00:11:43,200 --> 00:11:45,000 S1: revealed much of what we've already talked about. You know, 203 00:11:45,040 --> 00:11:47,560 S1: that the Liberal Party was failing to appeal to female 204 00:11:47,559 --> 00:11:50,960 S1: voters and that, yes, it should preselect women in 50% 205 00:11:50,960 --> 00:11:53,710 S1: of seats. So did they just ignore it? 206 00:11:53,870 --> 00:11:54,750 S2: Yes they did. 207 00:11:55,070 --> 00:11:55,630 S1: Why though? 208 00:11:55,790 --> 00:11:59,470 S2: They'd rather be comfortable with their existing boys club and 209 00:11:59,470 --> 00:12:01,750 S2: the factional system that has produced that. It's a lot. 210 00:12:01,790 --> 00:12:03,910 S2: A lot of the blame for this falls on the 211 00:12:03,910 --> 00:12:08,310 S2: factional system which reproduces more of its own right. It's 212 00:12:08,350 --> 00:12:09,709 S2: reproducing itself. 213 00:12:09,750 --> 00:12:10,309 S1: Yes. 214 00:12:10,350 --> 00:12:14,710 S2: They'd rather do that than succeed. They would rather become 215 00:12:14,710 --> 00:12:19,670 S2: extinct than change their behaviour to actively include women. 216 00:12:19,910 --> 00:12:22,230 S1: Okay, now that would seem, on the face of it, 217 00:12:22,230 --> 00:12:24,870 S1: to be so irrational. It is. So why do you 218 00:12:24,870 --> 00:12:27,350 S1: have any insight into why? Why? I mean, I understand, 219 00:12:27,390 --> 00:12:28,990 S1: you know, human nature. We can all be a bit 220 00:12:28,990 --> 00:12:31,070 S1: resistant to change. It can be a bit painful. But 221 00:12:31,070 --> 00:12:35,189 S1: if you're constantly getting information that this is and, you know, obviously, 222 00:12:35,190 --> 00:12:37,230 S1: like you say, this has been a slow dying, I guess, 223 00:12:37,230 --> 00:12:40,590 S1: for the party. And they've been indicated for so long. 224 00:12:40,630 --> 00:12:44,030 S1: This is the problem. Yes. Why would you avoid it? 225 00:12:44,710 --> 00:12:51,710 S2: It's a simple fact of people, networks of allies and 226 00:12:51,710 --> 00:12:59,230 S2: influence seeking to reward itself and therefore reproduce itself. So 227 00:12:59,270 --> 00:13:03,309 S2: it requires a drastic intervention. And remember, the state divisions 228 00:13:03,710 --> 00:13:07,910 S2: are responsible for the Pre-selections and the state division, especially 229 00:13:07,910 --> 00:13:10,990 S2: New South Wales and Victoria, have been in a state 230 00:13:10,990 --> 00:13:16,190 S2: of total disarray. Factional war, you'll remember in New South Wales, 231 00:13:16,230 --> 00:13:20,790 S2: the Liberal Party state division couldn't even do the paperwork 232 00:13:21,150 --> 00:13:25,150 S2: to nominate candidates for local local government elections across the 233 00:13:25,150 --> 00:13:27,510 S2: entire state. There was not a single Liberal candidate for 234 00:13:27,510 --> 00:13:29,030 S2: any local council. 235 00:13:29,710 --> 00:13:31,870 S1: Okay, so here's my question then. Because like you say, 236 00:13:31,870 --> 00:13:34,950 S1: there's been this very long term resistance to change. You know, 237 00:13:34,950 --> 00:13:37,030 S1: obviously people don't want to lose their power. Well, I 238 00:13:37,030 --> 00:13:39,390 S1: guess the question is, is gender quotas going to be 239 00:13:39,390 --> 00:13:40,990 S1: a real answer for them? Because we know that labor 240 00:13:40,990 --> 00:13:44,110 S1: introduced gender quotas some 30 years ago. So I guess 241 00:13:44,110 --> 00:13:45,589 S1: tell me a bit about what that process was like 242 00:13:45,590 --> 00:13:49,030 S1: for labor. And, you know, whether you think quotas are 243 00:13:49,070 --> 00:13:51,990 S1: what really might change the fortunes for the coalition, I, 244 00:13:51,990 --> 00:13:52,590 S1: I guess. 245 00:13:52,630 --> 00:13:55,630 S2: Well, there was a lot of resistance in the Labor Party, uh, 246 00:13:55,870 --> 00:14:00,949 S2: because the whole concept was seen as being anti merit. 247 00:14:01,350 --> 00:14:05,429 S2: We just do our preselections on merit. And but again, 248 00:14:05,470 --> 00:14:08,030 S2: it was the real argument was the factions just wanted 249 00:14:08,030 --> 00:14:11,469 S2: to continue doing what they'd always been doing and they 250 00:14:11,470 --> 00:14:14,070 S2: had to be forced to change their ways. And that's 251 00:14:14,070 --> 00:14:17,829 S2: what labor did. They imposed the quota and it's worked. 252 00:14:18,070 --> 00:14:22,710 S2: So at the last federal election, there were just under 50% 253 00:14:22,710 --> 00:14:27,750 S2: of the successful MPs that went into the Parliament were 254 00:14:27,910 --> 00:14:30,590 S2: for labor, were women. And at this election, it's going 255 00:14:30,590 --> 00:14:33,510 S2: to be a little over. It looks like about 54% 256 00:14:33,790 --> 00:14:38,350 S2: of the labor caucus in the House this time is 257 00:14:38,350 --> 00:14:41,550 S2: going to be women. So it's really worked. Now, as 258 00:14:41,550 --> 00:14:44,350 S2: you know, Samantha, the liberal argument is we're not going 259 00:14:44,350 --> 00:14:47,310 S2: to do that because we're the party of freedom, of 260 00:14:47,310 --> 00:14:51,150 S2: individual responsibility, of merit and of choice. We're not going 261 00:14:51,190 --> 00:14:55,300 S2: to put a quota on ourselves. This is a pretext. 262 00:14:55,340 --> 00:14:59,340 S2: This is nonsense because the coalition imposes a quota at 263 00:14:59,340 --> 00:15:03,260 S2: the core of its existence, which is with the National Party. 264 00:15:03,620 --> 00:15:07,940 S2: They have a rigid formula about how many nationals will 265 00:15:07,940 --> 00:15:12,540 S2: be in the frontbench in the cabinet of a coalition government. 266 00:15:12,700 --> 00:15:15,380 S2: So this is a this is a group of people 267 00:15:15,740 --> 00:15:19,820 S2: who work very happily and successfully. Well, let me rephrase that. 268 00:15:19,820 --> 00:15:22,700 S2: They work very happily with a quota at the core 269 00:15:22,700 --> 00:15:27,220 S2: of their organisation. So it's a straw man argument. 270 00:15:27,260 --> 00:15:28,220 S4: So do you think there is. 271 00:15:28,220 --> 00:15:32,060 S1: Fundamentally some sort of anti-woman attitude or belief system then 272 00:15:32,100 --> 00:15:32,660 S1: at work? 273 00:15:32,700 --> 00:15:39,220 S2: I thought it was really revealing that the party, when 274 00:15:39,260 --> 00:15:43,740 S2: it was faced with a choice of leader between Julie 275 00:15:43,740 --> 00:15:46,980 S2: Bishop and Scott Morrison, chose Scott Morrison. 276 00:15:47,460 --> 00:15:49,380 S1: And not only did they choose Scott Morrison, but in 277 00:15:49,380 --> 00:15:52,020 S1: the most humiliating of ways. I think Julie Bishop got 278 00:15:52,020 --> 00:15:54,500 S1: something like 11 votes in her favor or something. I mean, 279 00:15:54,540 --> 00:15:57,580 S1: it was it was horrible, right? 280 00:15:57,620 --> 00:16:01,020 S2: It was it's bizarre because she was by far the 281 00:16:01,020 --> 00:16:06,300 S2: most popular. Her approval rating among coalition MPs was head 282 00:16:06,300 --> 00:16:09,420 S2: and shoulders above any of the others. She had a 283 00:16:09,420 --> 00:16:13,820 S2: high profile. She was actually competent. Maybe that's why they 284 00:16:13,820 --> 00:16:17,980 S2: found her so threatening. So that was as the teal 285 00:16:17,980 --> 00:16:20,340 S2: independent from the West Australian seat of Curtin, which was 286 00:16:20,340 --> 00:16:24,940 S2: Julie Bishop's former seat. Kate Cheney has said that was 287 00:16:24,980 --> 00:16:28,940 S2: a sliding doors moment that showed her and many, many 288 00:16:28,980 --> 00:16:32,900 S2: women that this was a party that was basically, as 289 00:16:32,900 --> 00:16:37,540 S2: you've just suggested, Samantha, at its core, is sexist. They 290 00:16:37,580 --> 00:16:40,180 S2: simply did not want a woman leader and they got 291 00:16:40,180 --> 00:16:41,820 S2: Scott Morrison. Get what you deserve. 292 00:16:44,780 --> 00:16:46,700 S1: Never a dull moment with you, Peter Hartcher. 293 00:16:46,820 --> 00:16:50,450 S2: Well, we've been given this rich fodder To buy, buy 294 00:16:50,450 --> 00:16:53,570 S2: the electoral outcome. To work with. And it's a it's 295 00:16:53,570 --> 00:16:54,490 S2: a remarkable one. 296 00:16:54,610 --> 00:16:57,850 S1: Well, thank you so much as always, Peter, for your time. 297 00:16:57,890 --> 00:16:58,930 S2: It's a pleasure, Samantha. 298 00:17:01,330 --> 00:17:05,850 S1: Today's episode was produced by myself, Josh Towers and Julia Carcasole, 299 00:17:05,850 --> 00:17:09,410 S1: with technical assistance by Taylor Dent. Our executive producer is 300 00:17:09,410 --> 00:17:13,090 S1: Tammy Mills. Tom Mackendrick is our head of audio. To 301 00:17:13,130 --> 00:17:15,970 S1: listen to our episodes as soon as they drop, follow 302 00:17:15,970 --> 00:17:19,330 S1: the Morning Edition on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you listen 303 00:17:19,330 --> 00:17:23,530 S1: to podcasts. Our newsrooms are powered by subscriptions, so to 304 00:17:23,570 --> 00:17:30,209 S1: support independent journalism, visit the page or smh.com.au. Subscribe. And 305 00:17:30,210 --> 00:17:32,170 S1: to stay up to date, sign up to our Morning 306 00:17:32,170 --> 00:17:34,730 S1: Edition newsletter to receive a summary of the day's most 307 00:17:34,730 --> 00:17:38,850 S1: important news in your inbox every morning. Links are in 308 00:17:38,850 --> 00:17:43,130 S1: the show. Notes. I'm Samantha Selinger. Morris, thanks for listening.