WEBVTT - Gastric sleeve and “two faces” 0:00:02.240 --> 0:00:03.520 Nine podcasts. 0:00:04.360 --> 0:00:07.160 During the accused killer's second week of evidence, it's put 0:00:07.200 --> 0:00:09.600 to her whether a clinic she says she had an 0:00:09.640 --> 0:00:14.480 appointment booked at actually offered gastric bypass surgery. She's also 0:00:14.600 --> 0:00:17.440 pressed by the prosecutor on if she really loved her 0:00:17.480 --> 0:00:18.000 in laws. 0:00:18.920 --> 0:00:23.439 Victoria's mushroom mystery, the mushroom lunch that claimed three lives. 0:00:23.200 --> 0:00:26.239 An Australian family's meal is now the center of a 0:00:26.280 --> 0:00:27.480 homicide investigation. 0:00:27.560 --> 0:00:30.400 The bizarre tragedy now grabbing global headlines. 0:00:30.480 --> 0:00:34.200 Aaron Patterson's alleged victims died after eating a family lunch 0:00:34.240 --> 0:00:35.840 she'd serve them at her home. 0:00:36.000 --> 0:00:39.599 I cannot think of another investigation that has generated this 0:00:39.800 --> 0:00:43.440 level of media and public interest. Four of the guests 0:00:43.479 --> 0:00:46.320 of that lunch were much loved members of this church. 0:00:46.720 --> 0:00:48.320 Only one will ever return. 0:00:48.479 --> 0:00:53.680 People are feeling very heavy with having lost such wonderful people. 0:00:53.840 --> 0:00:57.320 Today, Aaron Pattison remained here inside her home. 0:00:57.640 --> 0:00:59.040 She's continued to plead. 0:00:58.840 --> 0:00:59.920 Her innocence. 0:01:01.920 --> 0:01:04.880 In a court room in Country Victoria, Aaron Patterson is 0:01:04.920 --> 0:01:08.360 on trial accused of using death cap mushrooms to kill. 0:01:08.520 --> 0:01:11.360 She's pleaded not guilty to murdering three of her former 0:01:11.400 --> 0:01:14.200 in laws and attempting to kill a fourth the town's 0:01:14.280 --> 0:01:17.280 church pastor. It's up to the jurors to decide what 0:01:17.400 --> 0:01:21.839 happened when Pattison's loved ones sat down to eat. Aaron 0:01:21.880 --> 0:01:25.240 Patterson is into her second week giving evidence and she's 0:01:25.280 --> 0:01:29.960 still being cross examined by Crown Prosecutor Nnette Rodgers sc Now, 0:01:30.360 --> 0:01:34.520 she has been asked quite a bit about gastric bypass surgery. 0:01:34.800 --> 0:01:38.160 She's previously said in her evidence that she when she 0:01:38.240 --> 0:01:42.600 was referring to potentially needing some support from various members 0:01:42.600 --> 0:01:44.600 of the family around the time of the lunch, including 0:01:44.640 --> 0:01:48.000 her estranged husband, that the medical procedure that she was 0:01:48.000 --> 0:01:50.360 sort of referring to, she says, was the fact that 0:01:50.400 --> 0:01:52.520 she was planning to undergo weight loss surgery. 0:01:53.400 --> 0:01:55.440 Yeah, and that was a question that she was really 0:01:55.520 --> 0:01:59.880 pressed on during her evidence by the Crown Prosecutor Annette Rodgers. 0:02:00.320 --> 0:02:03.920 She was asked whether or not this is the particular 0:02:04.360 --> 0:02:06.960 clinic that she went to or had plans to go to, 0:02:07.440 --> 0:02:10.760 and that was an appointment on September thirteen, twenty twenty three, 0:02:11.080 --> 0:02:14.240 the accused woman said, But she also reiterated that that 0:02:14.360 --> 0:02:17.560 was canceled two days earlier on September eleven, twenty twenty three. 0:02:17.600 --> 0:02:21.880 But she maintained in her evidence throughout the trial that 0:02:22.040 --> 0:02:24.160 she wanted to have this gashik band surgery and she 0:02:24.200 --> 0:02:25.679 wanted to keep it a secret. And that's part of 0:02:25.680 --> 0:02:28.000 the reason why she let her family members believe that 0:02:28.040 --> 0:02:31.440 she was ill and potentially needing surgery in the months 0:02:31.440 --> 0:02:34.080 that followed the fatal lunch, because she was hoping that 0:02:34.080 --> 0:02:35.760 that was something that she could keep private because she 0:02:35.800 --> 0:02:38.120 was embarrassed about. And that's when we heard a little 0:02:38.120 --> 0:02:40.400 bit more about this particular clinic that she mentioned in 0:02:40.440 --> 0:02:41.000 her evidence. 0:02:41.280 --> 0:02:43.200 Yeah, and the way that the name of this clinic 0:02:43.240 --> 0:02:46.640 has come out is through Aaron Patterson's own evidence with 0:02:46.720 --> 0:02:49.160 the prosecution. Let's hear a little bit more about those 0:02:49.280 --> 0:02:53.720 questions as Nannette Rodgers really pressed her about this particular appointment. 0:02:53.960 --> 0:02:55.080 This is voiced by actors. 0:02:55.440 --> 0:02:59.120 You had an appointment scheduled for eleven am on the 0:02:59.200 --> 0:03:03.360 thirteenth of September twenty twenty three at that clinic in 0:03:03.480 --> 0:03:05.519 South Yarra agree or disagree. 0:03:05.720 --> 0:03:06.960 I thought it was a different suburb. 0:03:07.240 --> 0:03:10.520 Did you have an appointment scheduled for eleven am on 0:03:10.680 --> 0:03:14.440 thirteenth of September twenty twenty three. Leaving aside the location 0:03:14.560 --> 0:03:15.120 of the clinic. 0:03:15.880 --> 0:03:16.760 That sounds about right. 0:03:16.960 --> 0:03:20.760 You canceled that appointment on eleventh September twenty twenty three. 0:03:21.040 --> 0:03:23.320 Agree or disagree that'd be about right. 0:03:23.400 --> 0:03:28.720 Yes, that appointment was with Miss Isabella eng a registered nurse. 0:03:28.840 --> 0:03:32.520 Agree or disagree, I don't know. The Enrich Clinic does 0:03:32.560 --> 0:03:37.680 not offer gastric bypass surgery or gastric sleeve surgery. Agree 0:03:37.760 --> 0:03:38.440 or disagree. 0:03:38.600 --> 0:03:39.000 I don't know. 0:03:39.240 --> 0:03:43.720 The Enrich Clinic does not conduct assessments relating to gastric 0:03:43.760 --> 0:03:48.120 bypass surgery or gastric sleeve surgery. Agree or disagree. 0:03:48.320 --> 0:03:50.880 I don't know. But I'm a bit puzzled in what way. 0:03:51.520 --> 0:03:55.000 Well that was I had an appointment with them, and 0:03:55.000 --> 0:03:57.480 that's what my memory is that the appointment was for. 0:03:57.840 --> 0:03:59.080 So that's why I'm puzzled. 0:03:59.240 --> 0:04:02.880 Your appointment at the Enriched Clinic, the appointment that you 0:04:02.960 --> 0:04:06.640 have told this jury about on Friday, had nothing to 0:04:06.720 --> 0:04:08.800 do with gastric bypass surgery. 0:04:09.080 --> 0:04:12.040 Agree or disagree, Well, it would have been related to 0:04:12.080 --> 0:04:14.720 weight loss surgery. Perhaps it was a different procedure I 0:04:14.800 --> 0:04:17.280 was doing through them, and I was looking into lipersuction 0:04:17.400 --> 0:04:18.040 as well. 0:04:18.120 --> 0:04:21.840 When you gave sworn evidence to this jury last Friday 0:04:22.000 --> 0:04:25.840 that you had a pre surgery appointment for gastric bypass 0:04:25.880 --> 0:04:29.880 surgery booked in for early September with the Enriched Clinic 0:04:30.000 --> 0:04:34.600 in Melbourne, that was a lie. Agree or disagree, No, 0:04:34.680 --> 0:04:35.560 it wasn't a lie. 0:04:35.600 --> 0:04:36.880 That's what my memory was. 0:04:37.520 --> 0:04:37.760 Now. 0:04:38.120 --> 0:04:41.560 As well as this gastric bypass surgery, the accused woman's 0:04:41.600 --> 0:04:44.479 also been asked quite a bit around the purpose for 0:04:44.520 --> 0:04:48.760 this particular lunch. Yes, and she's been questioned around why 0:04:48.839 --> 0:04:51.320 is it that she invited these family members. We've heard 0:04:51.320 --> 0:04:54.039 her say through her evidence that she just really wanted 0:04:54.040 --> 0:04:56.039 to have the family over to her house, that she 0:04:56.080 --> 0:04:58.280 wanted Heather Wilkinson to see her garden because of a 0:04:58.360 --> 0:05:02.120 comment Gail Patt and her mother in law had said previously, 0:05:02.600 --> 0:05:05.200 and that she just wanted to connect again with the family. 0:05:05.240 --> 0:05:08.560 And we have seen her become quite emotional during parts 0:05:08.560 --> 0:05:11.080 of her evidence when she was giving the reasons, particularly 0:05:11.120 --> 0:05:13.360 for the Wilkinsons being invited to her home. She said 0:05:13.560 --> 0:05:16.279 they'd never both been there before, certainly not for lunch. 0:05:16.240 --> 0:05:18.240 But she really wanted to show her gratitude. 0:05:18.720 --> 0:05:21.600 Was the type of phrasing she was using in her 0:05:21.640 --> 0:05:24.240 answer that they had always been there for her. 0:05:24.360 --> 0:05:26.719 She remembered that Heather Wilkinson had. 0:05:26.600 --> 0:05:29.039 Been a real support to her, particularly when her daughter 0:05:29.320 --> 0:05:32.039 was quite young, and she said that, yeah, she felt 0:05:32.040 --> 0:05:34.320 like it was a good time to show some support 0:05:34.360 --> 0:05:36.520 to them, and she also felt like the family was 0:05:36.680 --> 0:05:38.640 sort of shifting away from her a little bit, and 0:05:38.640 --> 0:05:40.839 she saw this as a really good opportunity, in her words, 0:05:40.880 --> 0:05:43.920 to bring everybody back together. This was something that she said, 0:05:43.960 --> 0:05:46.119 she really enjoyed that last lunch and this was another 0:05:46.200 --> 0:05:48.960 lunch that she wanted to have again. But she was 0:05:49.000 --> 0:05:52.479 asked many many questions during her evidence as well about 0:05:52.480 --> 0:05:54.839 why the kids weren't present, if that was a deliberate 0:05:54.880 --> 0:05:57.640 decision or not. It was put to her that some 0:05:57.680 --> 0:05:59.920 of the other witnesses had said that the kids deliberately 0:06:00.000 --> 0:06:02.960 weren't there, but in her evidence she said, no, no, no, 0:06:03.080 --> 0:06:05.080 it was her children that wanted to go to the movies, 0:06:05.120 --> 0:06:06.760 and it didn't matter if they were going to be 0:06:06.800 --> 0:06:07.200 there or not. 0:06:07.240 --> 0:06:09.279 In her mind, if they wanted to go to the film, 0:06:09.320 --> 0:06:10.360 that was perfectly fine. 0:06:10.440 --> 0:06:12.599 When she was asked, is the reason that they weren't 0:06:12.600 --> 0:06:14.960 there that you wanted to discuss this medical issue. 0:06:15.000 --> 0:06:17.039 She said no in regards to that, and she was 0:06:17.080 --> 0:06:18.360 taken through. 0:06:18.160 --> 0:06:20.359 As well as this relationship that she said she had 0:06:20.400 --> 0:06:23.120 with the different family members and wanting to, in her words, 0:06:23.160 --> 0:06:26.080 thank them by having them over for this lunch, about 0:06:26.120 --> 0:06:28.960 her relationship, particularly with Don and Gail Patterson, and she's 0:06:28.960 --> 0:06:31.080 said in her evidence that she didn't need to give 0:06:31.120 --> 0:06:32.960 them a reason to come to the lunch. She was 0:06:33.040 --> 0:06:36.080 questioned on whether she'd invited the Wilkinsons as a way 0:06:36.120 --> 0:06:38.719 to encourage either Don and Gail or Simon to come 0:06:38.720 --> 0:06:41.080 to her home, and she said no, that wasn't the case. 0:06:41.360 --> 0:06:43.960 In terms of Don and Gail, she said she didn't 0:06:43.960 --> 0:06:45.680 need a reason, that they loved her and. 0:06:45.600 --> 0:06:48.160 That they would have come just from getting an invitation. 0:06:48.240 --> 0:06:51.560 But she's been taken through a lot of these Facebook messages, 0:06:51.800 --> 0:06:54.800 messages with online friends that the listeners and the jury 0:06:54.800 --> 0:06:57.080 have heard a lot about now, these messages in early 0:06:57.200 --> 0:07:02.440 December twenty twenty two, where she's speaking particularly around financial issues, 0:07:02.440 --> 0:07:04.080 and she was questioned a lot about whether that was 0:07:04.120 --> 0:07:07.359 to do with Don and Gail's role regarding the children's 0:07:07.400 --> 0:07:08.000 school fees. 0:07:08.240 --> 0:07:10.520 And this came out because her evidence, as you just mentioned, 0:07:10.520 --> 0:07:13.520 Penny was that she was loved by her in laws 0:07:13.600 --> 0:07:15.640 and that she had a great relationship with them. 0:07:15.640 --> 0:07:17.920 She found that they were really, really supportive. 0:07:17.400 --> 0:07:19.640 And she wanted to spend time with them, hence why 0:07:19.680 --> 0:07:23.080 she invited them in and Heather over for lunch. But 0:07:23.120 --> 0:07:25.280 then we heard as well a lot about these Facebook 0:07:25.320 --> 0:07:29.520 messages where there was expletive written messages read out to 0:07:29.640 --> 0:07:32.840 the jury, and Aaron Patterson was asked whether or not 0:07:32.840 --> 0:07:35.480 they were her true feelings about her family. She maintained 0:07:35.520 --> 0:07:40.160 know that she was just frustrated at that time. But 0:07:40.360 --> 0:07:42.800 again and again we heard from Nannette Rogers whether or 0:07:42.840 --> 0:07:45.720 not that was correct or did you have two faces? 0:07:46.040 --> 0:07:48.080 Yeah, we'll hear a little bit more of this evidence now. 0:07:48.160 --> 0:07:50.800 Now, this follows Aaron Patterson being asked a number of 0:07:50.880 --> 0:07:53.920 times about what she said to other witnesses, including in 0:07:53.960 --> 0:07:57.120 her police interview, about loving Don and Gail Patterson. 0:07:57.400 --> 0:08:01.080 I suggest that you didn't love them, correct or incorrect. 0:08:01.480 --> 0:08:02.400 That's not true. 0:08:02.640 --> 0:08:06.040 I suggest that you were angry that they took Simon's 0:08:06.080 --> 0:08:08.720 side in your argument with him in twenty twenty two 0:08:09.080 --> 0:08:13.080 about the child allowance. That's not true, and that feeling 0:08:13.200 --> 0:08:18.680 towards them continued correct or incorrect incorrect. In fact, you 0:08:18.760 --> 0:08:22.240 had two faces, a public face of appearing to have 0:08:22.280 --> 0:08:25.600 a good relationship with Don and Gail as shown to 0:08:25.640 --> 0:08:30.560 people like Simon, Anna, Tanya, Matt, Ruth Dubois, Professor Stewart 0:08:30.560 --> 0:08:34.359 and police in your record of interview. Agree or disagree? 0:08:34.640 --> 0:08:37.320 Are you asking me to agree if I had two faces? 0:08:38.120 --> 0:08:41.080 I'm asking you, do you agree that you had a 0:08:41.080 --> 0:08:44.280 public face of appearing to have a good relationship with 0:08:44.360 --> 0:08:45.400 Don and Gail. 0:08:46.160 --> 0:08:48.160 I had a good relationship with Don and Gail. 0:08:48.679 --> 0:08:51.880 I suggest that your private face was the one you 0:08:51.960 --> 0:08:56.520 showed in your Facebook messenger use correct or incorrect incorrect, 0:08:56.640 --> 0:08:59.520 And how you truly felt about Don and Gail was 0:08:59.760 --> 0:09:02.920 at as you expressed it in your Facebook messages correct 0:09:03.000 --> 0:09:06.760 or incorrect, incorrect, And that is how you really felt 0:09:06.760 --> 0:09:11.120 about Simon Patterson as expressed to your Facebook friends correct 0:09:11.240 --> 0:09:13.080 or incorrect, incorrect. 0:09:13.559 --> 0:09:16.480 Now, another part that the jury has been taken through 0:09:16.640 --> 0:09:19.360 a sort of at different times of the evidence is 0:09:19.360 --> 0:09:23.560 this alleged conversation that Aaron Patterson says Simon Patterson had 0:09:23.600 --> 0:09:26.160 with her at the hospital at Monash Hospital in the 0:09:26.240 --> 0:09:27.600 days after the lunch while she. 0:09:27.600 --> 0:09:28.400 Was being treated. 0:09:28.679 --> 0:09:31.840 Now, she says that her estranged husband asked her, is 0:09:31.880 --> 0:09:35.480 that how you poisoned my parents? Referring to a dehydrateor 0:09:35.520 --> 0:09:38.440 following a discussion about dried mushrooms. Now, it has been 0:09:38.480 --> 0:09:42.960 mentioned during her cross examination that she says, this is 0:09:43.000 --> 0:09:45.320 the first time the thought crossed her mind that there 0:09:45.360 --> 0:09:48.360 was a possibility there were foraged mushrooms in the meal 0:09:48.400 --> 0:09:49.680 that she had served her guests. 0:09:49.800 --> 0:09:52.320 Yeah, Nedette Roger said, this is why she was pressing 0:09:52.360 --> 0:09:55.520 the accused woman on the order of events that then 0:09:55.640 --> 0:09:59.560 followed this conversation with Simon Patterson in the hospital room, 0:09:59.559 --> 0:10:02.600 and this is in her evidence. Aaron Patterson said her 0:10:02.679 --> 0:10:04.520 estrange husband was only in the room with her for 0:10:04.559 --> 0:10:06.559 about five minutes. In fact, she said that she was 0:10:06.640 --> 0:10:08.640 largely there with the two kids in the room, and 0:10:08.800 --> 0:10:10.720 when he was there, he was on his phone or 0:10:10.800 --> 0:10:13.040 out in the hallway on his phone. And this was 0:10:13.360 --> 0:10:15.720 this conversation occurred during a five minute window when they 0:10:15.760 --> 0:10:18.600 were left alone. And as I said, that's why the 0:10:18.640 --> 0:10:21.800 questioning was about the timeframe. What happened next? And Aaron 0:10:21.800 --> 0:10:24.719 Patterson said, yes, after I left hospital, this is what 0:10:24.760 --> 0:10:27.439 I did. This is I got rid of the dehydrator 0:10:27.520 --> 0:10:29.800 and I was worried, and in her evidence she was 0:10:29.800 --> 0:10:31.480 worried that the kids could be taken away if there 0:10:31.520 --> 0:10:33.600 was any sort of connection there. But as you said, Penny, 0:10:33.640 --> 0:10:35.520 she maintained that that was the first time in that 0:10:35.600 --> 0:10:38.240 hospital that she really started to think maybe there was 0:10:38.280 --> 0:10:40.800 another type of mushrooms that made their way into her meal. 0:10:41.120 --> 0:10:41.320 Yeah. 0:10:41.320 --> 0:10:44.400 And she was asked on whether so she had this 0:10:44.440 --> 0:10:47.199 conversation and then in after she's got out of hospital 0:10:47.240 --> 0:10:49.760 that next day she's driven her children to school, she says, 0:10:49.840 --> 0:10:52.200 then she's got rid of the dehydrator. She was asked, 0:10:52.520 --> 0:10:56.120 at any point did she ever tell any medical professionals 0:10:56.160 --> 0:10:58.080 that there was a chance that there could have been 0:10:58.400 --> 0:11:01.680 any sort of foraged mushrooms in this and she said no, never, 0:11:01.880 --> 0:11:04.640 And her evidence is that she's never told anyone through 0:11:04.640 --> 0:11:06.679 this whole process that there was a chance that there 0:11:06.720 --> 0:11:10.880 were these foraged mushrooms that potentially in that meal. Now 0:11:11.200 --> 0:11:13.880 she's been asked quite a bit about I naturalist, and 0:11:13.920 --> 0:11:16.160 the jury and the listeners have heard this word a lot. 0:11:16.240 --> 0:11:18.400 This citizen science website, as it's been. 0:11:18.280 --> 0:11:22.920 Referred to, where people record different sightings of different flaora 0:11:23.160 --> 0:11:26.280 and some of those being mushrooms now, she was asked 0:11:26.320 --> 0:11:31.640 about whether she remembered visiting certain Eye Naturalists posts and 0:11:31.760 --> 0:11:34.040 different parts of the website, and she's said through her 0:11:34.040 --> 0:11:37.520 evidence that she doesn't remember ever going on I Naturalists. 0:11:37.120 --> 0:11:39.360 But she does a dispute that she may have penny. 0:11:39.520 --> 0:11:42.400 And this is at a time where the prosecution alleged 0:11:42.440 --> 0:11:46.880 that Aaron Patterson was also ordering dinner online from a 0:11:47.000 --> 0:11:50.160 nearby pub, and she said she also doesn't remember making 0:11:50.200 --> 0:11:52.240 that order, but it was made under her name, with 0:11:52.280 --> 0:11:55.040 her address and her phone number, and she said that. 0:11:55.000 --> 0:11:56.320 It could possibly have been her. 0:11:56.400 --> 0:11:59.080 She's not saying it wasn't her, but in both of 0:11:59.080 --> 0:12:01.360 those instances she just said she doesn't have a memory of. 0:12:01.320 --> 0:12:01.760 It at all. 0:12:02.080 --> 0:12:04.559 Yeah, And the prosecution, as you'll hear through this bit 0:12:04.600 --> 0:12:07.720 of evidence, is talking about the I Naturalist post being 0:12:07.800 --> 0:12:10.880 viewed on a computer that was seized from Aaron Patterson's 0:12:10.880 --> 0:12:13.880 home and also that pub order being made a sort 0:12:13.920 --> 0:12:16.880 of the same time, and they're putting this to the 0:12:17.040 --> 0:12:20.040 witness in Aaron Patterson, the accused woman. So this is 0:12:20.120 --> 0:12:22.200 quite lengthy, but we want you to hear the way 0:12:22.240 --> 0:12:24.360 this went back and forth in court as part of 0:12:24.400 --> 0:12:27.360 the cross examination. This is the words of Nannette Rogers 0:12:27.400 --> 0:12:29.320 and Aaron Patterson. It's voiced by actors. 0:12:29.880 --> 0:12:33.840 You knew how to use the map function on I Naturalist. 0:12:33.960 --> 0:12:37.439 Correct Or is it your evidence that you don't remember? 0:12:38.000 --> 0:12:41.360 I don't remember ever using the site, so questions like 0:12:41.400 --> 0:12:42.880 that are difficult to answer. 0:12:43.520 --> 0:12:46.320 Or did you use the site to utilize the map function? 0:12:46.679 --> 0:12:48.240 I don't remember using the site. 0:12:48.320 --> 0:12:50.880 I suggest you knew how to click on the little 0:12:51.080 --> 0:12:53.640 icons on the map to bring up the relevant post. 0:12:53.840 --> 0:12:57.120 Correct or incorrect. I don't know you did that for 0:12:57.200 --> 0:13:01.120 this I Naturalist post about deathcap mushrooms in Morabin correct 0:13:01.240 --> 0:13:01.840 or incorrect? 0:13:02.200 --> 0:13:04.640 Well, somebody did, and that somebody could have been me. 0:13:05.240 --> 0:13:07.320 Now I want to take you to another part of 0:13:07.320 --> 0:13:11.200 the exhibit. I've asked you questions about this previously, but 0:13:11.320 --> 0:13:14.840 my specific question in terms of this is that against 0:13:14.840 --> 0:13:17.880 the visit count on the left hand side, there's the 0:13:18.000 --> 0:13:20.120 number two. Do you see that? 0:13:20.760 --> 0:13:21.000 Yes? 0:13:21.040 --> 0:13:21.240 I do? 0:13:21.840 --> 0:13:25.720 You had visited the URL once before on this device? Correct? 0:13:26.559 --> 0:13:29.280 Yes, correct, and I believe it was two seconds earlier. 0:13:29.520 --> 0:13:31.920 I suggest you're wrong about that. Correct or incorrect? 0:13:32.320 --> 0:13:33.319 Ah, I'm correct. 0:13:33.679 --> 0:13:38.720 Can you go please to page eleven record two, so 0:13:38.840 --> 0:13:41.600 on the same date that we've been talking about. Twenty 0:13:41.679 --> 0:13:45.840 eighth of May twenty three, at seven twenty three pm, 0:13:46.160 --> 0:13:49.240 you navigated to the web address of the current Borough 0:13:49.320 --> 0:13:52.320 Middle Hotel or Middle Pub. Correct. 0:13:52.679 --> 0:13:54.520 It looks like somebody did, yes. 0:13:54.920 --> 0:13:58.080 Three minutes after you had accessed the I Naturalist page 0:13:58.080 --> 0:14:00.880 at seven twenty pm correct or correct. 0:14:01.080 --> 0:14:02.719 Three minutes after somebody did. 0:14:02.880 --> 0:14:05.120 Are you suggesting that it might have been your son? 0:14:05.320 --> 0:14:06.560 I'm not suggesting anything. 0:14:07.040 --> 0:14:08.720 Are you suggesting it was your daughter? 0:14:08.840 --> 0:14:10.000 I'm not suggesting anything. 0:14:10.000 --> 0:14:11.960 Who lived in your house on the twenty eighth of 0:14:11.960 --> 0:14:13.199 May twenty twenty. 0:14:12.880 --> 0:14:14.880 Two, myself and my two children. 0:14:15.040 --> 0:14:18.360 In terms of the evidence, there's been evidence that there 0:14:18.400 --> 0:14:21.240 was a purchase confirmed by the curran Borough Middle Hotel, 0:14:21.480 --> 0:14:24.840 a receipt provided in your name for the purchase of 0:14:24.920 --> 0:14:28.359 meals and the bottle of soft drink utilizing the hotel's 0:14:28.440 --> 0:14:32.680 online ordering provider. Your phone number was ending in seven 0:14:32.800 --> 0:14:37.560 eighty three correct. Correct, and the name. The evidence has 0:14:37.600 --> 0:14:41.320 been that the name entered into the website was yours. 0:14:41.520 --> 0:14:41.960 Correct. 0:14:42.160 --> 0:14:46.120 You heard that evidence? Yes, I suggest that it was 0:14:46.200 --> 0:14:48.960 you who placed the order correct or incorrect? 0:14:49.560 --> 0:14:50.800 I don't know now. 0:14:50.800 --> 0:14:54.560 Aaron Patterson has also been taken to the circumstances again 0:14:54.720 --> 0:14:57.680 of this particular lunch by the prosecution, and she was 0:14:57.720 --> 0:15:01.120 asked a bit about the play that this meal was 0:15:01.160 --> 0:15:03.600 served on in her kitchen and her dining room on 0:15:03.680 --> 0:15:04.080 that day. 0:15:04.680 --> 0:15:08.360 Yeah, and that was over multiple days of her evidence 0:15:08.480 --> 0:15:11.160 that the prosecution went back to the plates and how 0:15:11.240 --> 0:15:12.640 many did you own and what do they look like 0:15:12.680 --> 0:15:15.040 and what color were they and here's the evidence of 0:15:15.320 --> 0:15:19.000 Ian Wilkinson and is this something you agree or disagree with? 0:15:19.200 --> 0:15:22.160 And Aaron Patterson said, I disagree. Her memory of the 0:15:22.160 --> 0:15:25.200 plates that she owned, she told the jury was that 0:15:25.240 --> 0:15:26.160 she actually didn't. 0:15:25.960 --> 0:15:28.280 Have a full set of plates. She did think that 0:15:28.320 --> 0:15:28.880 she might have. 0:15:28.920 --> 0:15:33.400 Some smaller black sort of side plates, but largely, she 0:15:33.840 --> 0:15:35.560 said that was a little bit sort of ad hoc. 0:15:36.200 --> 0:15:37.520 She did have some of that were red on the 0:15:37.560 --> 0:15:40.960 top and darker on the bottom, but she didn't remember 0:15:41.320 --> 0:15:45.840 deliberately in any way, shape or form selecting certain plates. 0:15:45.840 --> 0:15:50.160 She didn't remember plating up plates for different people. In fact, 0:15:50.200 --> 0:15:53.120 her memory was when she went to grab her plate 0:15:53.160 --> 0:15:54.960 to sit down, it was the only plate left and 0:15:54.960 --> 0:15:56.320 that's the reason she took it. 0:15:56.680 --> 0:15:58.800 Yeah, And through her evidence, she's been brought back to 0:15:58.840 --> 0:16:00.800 this moment as well through the tree script as well, 0:16:00.840 --> 0:16:03.400 that she says she was making the gravy, that she 0:16:03.520 --> 0:16:06.480 turned away. When she turned back, four of the plates 0:16:06.480 --> 0:16:08.680 were gone, and she'd sort of said, grab a plate, guys, 0:16:09.120 --> 0:16:11.600 But that then she took her plate over to that 0:16:12.400 --> 0:16:15.320 to that seating area, and that there were no assigned 0:16:15.360 --> 0:16:17.920 seats or assigned plates. Now it was put to the 0:16:18.000 --> 0:16:22.360 accused by the prosecution an allegation of did you serve 0:16:22.440 --> 0:16:24.760 your food on a particular colored plate? And was that 0:16:24.840 --> 0:16:28.080 a non poisoned meal? Was the words that Thenette Rogers used, 0:16:28.080 --> 0:16:29.200 and she denied that. 0:16:29.320 --> 0:16:31.240 She said that all of these meals were the. 0:16:31.200 --> 0:16:34.360 Same, and she was asked quite a bit about what 0:16:34.480 --> 0:16:37.200 had happened after this meal. Now she's given evidence that 0:16:37.720 --> 0:16:40.160 after the meal she ate quite a bit of orange cake, 0:16:40.320 --> 0:16:43.240 and Aaron Patterson's account is that she then made herself 0:16:43.280 --> 0:16:47.240 ill after that. Now she was asked about that incident, 0:16:47.320 --> 0:16:49.920 but also how much she had eaten of the particular 0:16:49.960 --> 0:16:52.400 beef Wellington, and she's gone back and forth with saying 0:16:52.760 --> 0:16:55.000 it was around half, it was around a quarter, around 0:16:55.000 --> 0:16:56.520 a third. She used the words I didn't have a 0:16:56.560 --> 0:16:59.320 measuring tape, so she doesn't know exactly she says how 0:16:59.400 --> 0:17:02.880 much beef Welling she ate. She also says she couldn't 0:17:02.880 --> 0:17:05.240 be sure whether or not that beef Wellington came up 0:17:05.359 --> 0:17:07.760 when she was sick after the cake, and when she 0:17:07.840 --> 0:17:11.480 was pressed on that and to whether she had said 0:17:11.520 --> 0:17:15.399 these things in her evidence as a way to basically 0:17:15.800 --> 0:17:18.560 explain why she wasn't as sick as these other guests, 0:17:18.840 --> 0:17:22.240 Aaron Patterson again disputed that allegation from the prosecution, and 0:17:22.280 --> 0:17:24.880 she said, no, that's not the case, that she genuinely 0:17:24.960 --> 0:17:27.040 was sick, but she hadn't told anyone about that. 0:17:27.119 --> 0:17:29.480 She told the jury that yes, I told you all 0:17:29.480 --> 0:17:32.359 that I vomited, but I never told the jury in 0:17:32.400 --> 0:17:34.920 my mind what I vomited up. And she was asked 0:17:34.960 --> 0:17:37.320 a lot about the time of day potentially this happened, 0:17:37.760 --> 0:17:41.240 and she said, you couldn't put a pinpoint a time, 0:17:41.520 --> 0:17:42.119 but it was sort of. 0:17:42.160 --> 0:17:44.280 Late afternoon before evening. 0:17:44.680 --> 0:17:47.280 And it got a little bit tense in the room 0:17:47.480 --> 0:17:50.560 with a bit of questioning back and forth between Aaron 0:17:50.600 --> 0:17:54.160 Patterson and Annette Rodgers at this point when Aaron was like, well, 0:17:54.400 --> 0:17:56.960 I can't tell you what I vomited up. I don't 0:17:57.000 --> 0:18:00.400 know if it was beef Wellington it's vomit. I can't 0:18:00.400 --> 0:18:02.520 tell you what's in it. And she said, look, it 0:18:02.520 --> 0:18:05.320 could have been beans or corn. Maybe then i'd be 0:18:05.359 --> 0:18:06.640 able to tell you what was in it. And Nett 0:18:06.720 --> 0:18:09.760 Rogers turned around quite quickly and said, well, I never 0:18:09.760 --> 0:18:12.800 said that there was corn in the meal. And at 0:18:12.800 --> 0:18:14.720 that point there was I see a lot of heads 0:18:14.760 --> 0:18:18.000 turning and looking around in the courtroom as at exchange 0:18:18.000 --> 0:18:19.320 got a little bit uncomfortable. 0:18:19.880 --> 0:18:21.840 Yeah, and we'll talk a little bit more in a 0:18:21.880 --> 0:18:24.480 moment about Aaron Patterson and the symptoms and the illness 0:18:24.480 --> 0:18:27.360 that she said she then suffered as a result of 0:18:27.400 --> 0:18:30.600 this meal. But first we'll take you through again some 0:18:30.720 --> 0:18:32.879 of the medical evidence. But this is in relation to 0:18:33.359 --> 0:18:36.600 what the prosecution has been putting to Aaron Patterson about 0:18:36.880 --> 0:18:40.040 what she did after the meal and why she did 0:18:40.440 --> 0:18:43.080 what she did at that time. Now, Aaron Patterson presented 0:18:43.119 --> 0:18:45.840 two days after the fatal lunch tu Lee and Gatha Hospital. 0:18:46.119 --> 0:18:49.199 That morning, after dropping her children at a bus to 0:18:49.240 --> 0:18:51.919 go to school, she says that she arrived at the 0:18:51.920 --> 0:18:54.240 hospital and it's been agreed through the evidence around eight 0:18:54.240 --> 0:18:56.520