1 00:00:02,240 --> 00:00:03,520 Speaker 1: Nine podcasts. 2 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:07,160 Speaker 2: During the accused killer's second week of evidence, it's put 3 00:00:07,200 --> 00:00:09,600 Speaker 2: to her whether a clinic she says she had an 4 00:00:09,640 --> 00:00:14,480 Speaker 2: appointment booked at actually offered gastric bypass surgery. She's also 5 00:00:14,600 --> 00:00:17,440 Speaker 2: pressed by the prosecutor on if she really loved her 6 00:00:17,480 --> 00:00:18,000 Speaker 2: in laws. 7 00:00:18,920 --> 00:00:23,439 Speaker 3: Victoria's mushroom mystery, the mushroom lunch that claimed three lives. 8 00:00:23,200 --> 00:00:26,239 Speaker 4: An Australian family's meal is now the center of a 9 00:00:26,280 --> 00:00:27,480 Speaker 4: homicide investigation. 10 00:00:27,560 --> 00:00:30,400 Speaker 3: The bizarre tragedy now grabbing global headlines. 11 00:00:30,480 --> 00:00:34,200 Speaker 5: Aaron Patterson's alleged victims died after eating a family lunch 12 00:00:34,240 --> 00:00:35,840 Speaker 5: she'd serve them at her home. 13 00:00:36,000 --> 00:00:39,599 Speaker 2: I cannot think of another investigation that has generated this 14 00:00:39,800 --> 00:00:43,440 Speaker 2: level of media and public interest. Four of the guests 15 00:00:43,479 --> 00:00:46,320 Speaker 2: of that lunch were much loved members of this church. 16 00:00:46,720 --> 00:00:48,320 Speaker 6: Only one will ever return. 17 00:00:48,479 --> 00:00:53,680 Speaker 1: People are feeling very heavy with having lost such wonderful people. 18 00:00:53,840 --> 00:00:57,320 Speaker 2: Today, Aaron Pattison remained here inside her home. 19 00:00:57,640 --> 00:00:59,040 Speaker 6: She's continued to plead. 20 00:00:58,840 --> 00:00:59,920 Speaker 4: Her innocence. 21 00:01:01,920 --> 00:01:04,880 Speaker 2: In a court room in Country Victoria, Aaron Patterson is 22 00:01:04,920 --> 00:01:08,360 Speaker 2: on trial accused of using death cap mushrooms to kill. 23 00:01:08,520 --> 00:01:11,360 Speaker 2: She's pleaded not guilty to murdering three of her former 24 00:01:11,400 --> 00:01:14,200 Speaker 2: in laws and attempting to kill a fourth the town's 25 00:01:14,280 --> 00:01:17,280 Speaker 2: church pastor. It's up to the jurors to decide what 26 00:01:17,400 --> 00:01:21,839 Speaker 2: happened when Pattison's loved ones sat down to eat. Aaron 27 00:01:21,880 --> 00:01:25,240 Speaker 2: Patterson is into her second week giving evidence and she's 28 00:01:25,280 --> 00:01:29,960 Speaker 2: still being cross examined by Crown Prosecutor Nnette Rodgers sc Now, 29 00:01:30,360 --> 00:01:34,520 Speaker 2: she has been asked quite a bit about gastric bypass surgery. 30 00:01:34,800 --> 00:01:38,160 Speaker 2: She's previously said in her evidence that she when she 31 00:01:38,240 --> 00:01:42,600 Speaker 2: was referring to potentially needing some support from various members 32 00:01:42,600 --> 00:01:44,600 Speaker 2: of the family around the time of the lunch, including 33 00:01:44,640 --> 00:01:48,000 Speaker 2: her estranged husband, that the medical procedure that she was 34 00:01:48,000 --> 00:01:50,360 Speaker 2: sort of referring to, she says, was the fact that 35 00:01:50,400 --> 00:01:52,520 Speaker 2: she was planning to undergo weight loss surgery. 36 00:01:53,400 --> 00:01:55,440 Speaker 5: Yeah, and that was a question that she was really 37 00:01:55,520 --> 00:01:59,880 Speaker 5: pressed on during her evidence by the Crown Prosecutor Annette Rodgers. 38 00:02:00,320 --> 00:02:03,920 Speaker 5: She was asked whether or not this is the particular 39 00:02:04,360 --> 00:02:06,960 Speaker 5: clinic that she went to or had plans to go to, 40 00:02:07,440 --> 00:02:10,760 Speaker 5: and that was an appointment on September thirteen, twenty twenty three, 41 00:02:11,080 --> 00:02:14,240 Speaker 5: the accused woman said, But she also reiterated that that 42 00:02:14,360 --> 00:02:17,560 Speaker 5: was canceled two days earlier on September eleven, twenty twenty three. 43 00:02:17,600 --> 00:02:21,880 Speaker 5: But she maintained in her evidence throughout the trial that 44 00:02:22,040 --> 00:02:24,160 Speaker 5: she wanted to have this gashik band surgery and she 45 00:02:24,200 --> 00:02:25,679 Speaker 5: wanted to keep it a secret. And that's part of 46 00:02:25,680 --> 00:02:28,000 Speaker 5: the reason why she let her family members believe that 47 00:02:28,040 --> 00:02:31,440 Speaker 5: she was ill and potentially needing surgery in the months 48 00:02:31,440 --> 00:02:34,080 Speaker 5: that followed the fatal lunch, because she was hoping that 49 00:02:34,080 --> 00:02:35,760 Speaker 5: that was something that she could keep private because she 50 00:02:35,800 --> 00:02:38,120 Speaker 5: was embarrassed about. And that's when we heard a little 51 00:02:38,120 --> 00:02:40,400 Speaker 5: bit more about this particular clinic that she mentioned in 52 00:02:40,440 --> 00:02:41,000 Speaker 5: her evidence. 53 00:02:41,280 --> 00:02:43,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, and the way that the name of this clinic 54 00:02:43,240 --> 00:02:46,640 Speaker 2: has come out is through Aaron Patterson's own evidence with 55 00:02:46,720 --> 00:02:49,160 Speaker 2: the prosecution. Let's hear a little bit more about those 56 00:02:49,280 --> 00:02:53,720 Speaker 2: questions as Nannette Rodgers really pressed her about this particular appointment. 57 00:02:53,960 --> 00:02:55,080 Speaker 4: This is voiced by actors. 58 00:02:55,440 --> 00:02:59,120 Speaker 1: You had an appointment scheduled for eleven am on the 59 00:02:59,200 --> 00:03:03,360 Speaker 1: thirteenth of September twenty twenty three at that clinic in 60 00:03:03,480 --> 00:03:05,519 Speaker 1: South Yarra agree or disagree. 61 00:03:05,720 --> 00:03:06,960 Speaker 4: I thought it was a different suburb. 62 00:03:07,240 --> 00:03:10,520 Speaker 1: Did you have an appointment scheduled for eleven am on 63 00:03:10,680 --> 00:03:14,440 Speaker 1: thirteenth of September twenty twenty three. Leaving aside the location 64 00:03:14,560 --> 00:03:15,120 Speaker 1: of the clinic. 65 00:03:15,880 --> 00:03:16,760 Speaker 4: That sounds about right. 66 00:03:16,960 --> 00:03:20,760 Speaker 1: You canceled that appointment on eleventh September twenty twenty three. 67 00:03:21,040 --> 00:03:23,320 Speaker 4: Agree or disagree that'd be about right. 68 00:03:23,400 --> 00:03:28,720 Speaker 1: Yes, that appointment was with Miss Isabella eng a registered nurse. 69 00:03:28,840 --> 00:03:32,520 Speaker 1: Agree or disagree, I don't know. The Enrich Clinic does 70 00:03:32,560 --> 00:03:37,680 Speaker 1: not offer gastric bypass surgery or gastric sleeve surgery. Agree 71 00:03:37,760 --> 00:03:38,440 Speaker 1: or disagree. 72 00:03:38,600 --> 00:03:39,000 Speaker 4: I don't know. 73 00:03:39,240 --> 00:03:43,720 Speaker 1: The Enrich Clinic does not conduct assessments relating to gastric 74 00:03:43,760 --> 00:03:48,120 Speaker 1: bypass surgery or gastric sleeve surgery. Agree or disagree. 75 00:03:48,320 --> 00:03:50,880 Speaker 4: I don't know. But I'm a bit puzzled in what way. 76 00:03:51,520 --> 00:03:55,000 Speaker 7: Well that was I had an appointment with them, and 77 00:03:55,000 --> 00:03:57,480 Speaker 7: that's what my memory is that the appointment was for. 78 00:03:57,840 --> 00:03:59,080 Speaker 4: So that's why I'm puzzled. 79 00:03:59,240 --> 00:04:02,880 Speaker 1: Your appointment at the Enriched Clinic, the appointment that you 80 00:04:02,960 --> 00:04:06,640 Speaker 1: have told this jury about on Friday, had nothing to 81 00:04:06,720 --> 00:04:08,800 Speaker 1: do with gastric bypass surgery. 82 00:04:09,080 --> 00:04:12,040 Speaker 7: Agree or disagree, Well, it would have been related to 83 00:04:12,080 --> 00:04:14,720 Speaker 7: weight loss surgery. Perhaps it was a different procedure I 84 00:04:14,800 --> 00:04:17,280 Speaker 7: was doing through them, and I was looking into lipersuction 85 00:04:17,400 --> 00:04:18,040 Speaker 7: as well. 86 00:04:18,120 --> 00:04:21,840 Speaker 1: When you gave sworn evidence to this jury last Friday 87 00:04:22,000 --> 00:04:25,840 Speaker 1: that you had a pre surgery appointment for gastric bypass 88 00:04:25,880 --> 00:04:29,880 Speaker 1: surgery booked in for early September with the Enriched Clinic 89 00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:34,600 Speaker 1: in Melbourne, that was a lie. Agree or disagree, No, 90 00:04:34,680 --> 00:04:35,560 Speaker 1: it wasn't a lie. 91 00:04:35,600 --> 00:04:36,880 Speaker 4: That's what my memory was. 92 00:04:37,520 --> 00:04:37,760 Speaker 3: Now. 93 00:04:38,120 --> 00:04:41,560 Speaker 2: As well as this gastric bypass surgery, the accused woman's 94 00:04:41,600 --> 00:04:44,479 Speaker 2: also been asked quite a bit around the purpose for 95 00:04:44,520 --> 00:04:48,760 Speaker 2: this particular lunch. Yes, and she's been questioned around why 96 00:04:48,839 --> 00:04:51,320 Speaker 2: is it that she invited these family members. We've heard 97 00:04:51,320 --> 00:04:54,039 Speaker 2: her say through her evidence that she just really wanted 98 00:04:54,040 --> 00:04:56,039 Speaker 2: to have the family over to her house, that she 99 00:04:56,080 --> 00:04:58,280 Speaker 2: wanted Heather Wilkinson to see her garden because of a 100 00:04:58,360 --> 00:05:02,120 Speaker 2: comment Gail Patt and her mother in law had said previously, 101 00:05:02,600 --> 00:05:05,200 Speaker 2: and that she just wanted to connect again with the family. 102 00:05:05,240 --> 00:05:08,560 Speaker 2: And we have seen her become quite emotional during parts 103 00:05:08,560 --> 00:05:11,080 Speaker 2: of her evidence when she was giving the reasons, particularly 104 00:05:11,120 --> 00:05:13,360 Speaker 2: for the Wilkinsons being invited to her home. She said 105 00:05:13,560 --> 00:05:16,279 Speaker 2: they'd never both been there before, certainly not for lunch. 106 00:05:16,240 --> 00:05:18,240 Speaker 3: But she really wanted to show her gratitude. 107 00:05:18,720 --> 00:05:21,600 Speaker 5: Was the type of phrasing she was using in her 108 00:05:21,640 --> 00:05:24,240 Speaker 5: answer that they had always been there for her. 109 00:05:24,360 --> 00:05:26,719 Speaker 3: She remembered that Heather Wilkinson had. 110 00:05:26,600 --> 00:05:29,039 Speaker 5: Been a real support to her, particularly when her daughter 111 00:05:29,320 --> 00:05:32,039 Speaker 5: was quite young, and she said that, yeah, she felt 112 00:05:32,040 --> 00:05:34,320 Speaker 5: like it was a good time to show some support 113 00:05:34,360 --> 00:05:36,520 Speaker 5: to them, and she also felt like the family was 114 00:05:36,680 --> 00:05:38,640 Speaker 5: sort of shifting away from her a little bit, and 115 00:05:38,640 --> 00:05:40,839 Speaker 5: she saw this as a really good opportunity, in her words, 116 00:05:40,880 --> 00:05:43,920 Speaker 5: to bring everybody back together. This was something that she said, 117 00:05:43,960 --> 00:05:46,119 Speaker 5: she really enjoyed that last lunch and this was another 118 00:05:46,200 --> 00:05:48,960 Speaker 5: lunch that she wanted to have again. But she was 119 00:05:49,000 --> 00:05:52,479 Speaker 5: asked many many questions during her evidence as well about 120 00:05:52,480 --> 00:05:54,839 Speaker 5: why the kids weren't present, if that was a deliberate 121 00:05:54,880 --> 00:05:57,640 Speaker 5: decision or not. It was put to her that some 122 00:05:57,680 --> 00:05:59,920 Speaker 5: of the other witnesses had said that the kids deliberately 123 00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:02,960 Speaker 5: weren't there, but in her evidence she said, no, no, no, 124 00:06:03,080 --> 00:06:05,080 Speaker 5: it was her children that wanted to go to the movies, 125 00:06:05,120 --> 00:06:06,760 Speaker 5: and it didn't matter if they were going to be 126 00:06:06,800 --> 00:06:07,200 Speaker 5: there or not. 127 00:06:07,240 --> 00:06:09,279 Speaker 3: In her mind, if they wanted to go to the film, 128 00:06:09,320 --> 00:06:10,360 Speaker 3: that was perfectly fine. 129 00:06:10,440 --> 00:06:12,599 Speaker 2: When she was asked, is the reason that they weren't 130 00:06:12,600 --> 00:06:14,960 Speaker 2: there that you wanted to discuss this medical issue. 131 00:06:15,000 --> 00:06:17,039 Speaker 6: She said no in regards to that, and she was 132 00:06:17,080 --> 00:06:18,360 Speaker 6: taken through. 133 00:06:18,160 --> 00:06:20,359 Speaker 2: As well as this relationship that she said she had 134 00:06:20,400 --> 00:06:23,120 Speaker 2: with the different family members and wanting to, in her words, 135 00:06:23,160 --> 00:06:26,080 Speaker 2: thank them by having them over for this lunch, about 136 00:06:26,120 --> 00:06:28,960 Speaker 2: her relationship, particularly with Don and Gail Patterson, and she's 137 00:06:28,960 --> 00:06:31,080 Speaker 2: said in her evidence that she didn't need to give 138 00:06:31,120 --> 00:06:32,960 Speaker 2: them a reason to come to the lunch. She was 139 00:06:33,040 --> 00:06:36,080 Speaker 2: questioned on whether she'd invited the Wilkinsons as a way 140 00:06:36,120 --> 00:06:38,719 Speaker 2: to encourage either Don and Gail or Simon to come 141 00:06:38,720 --> 00:06:41,080 Speaker 2: to her home, and she said no, that wasn't the case. 142 00:06:41,360 --> 00:06:43,960 Speaker 2: In terms of Don and Gail, she said she didn't 143 00:06:43,960 --> 00:06:45,680 Speaker 2: need a reason, that they loved her and. 144 00:06:45,600 --> 00:06:48,160 Speaker 6: That they would have come just from getting an invitation. 145 00:06:48,240 --> 00:06:51,560 Speaker 2: But she's been taken through a lot of these Facebook messages, 146 00:06:51,800 --> 00:06:54,800 Speaker 2: messages with online friends that the listeners and the jury 147 00:06:54,800 --> 00:06:57,080 Speaker 2: have heard a lot about now, these messages in early 148 00:06:57,200 --> 00:07:02,440 Speaker 2: December twenty twenty two, where she's speaking particularly around financial issues, 149 00:07:02,440 --> 00:07:04,080 Speaker 2: and she was questioned a lot about whether that was 150 00:07:04,120 --> 00:07:07,359 Speaker 2: to do with Don and Gail's role regarding the children's 151 00:07:07,400 --> 00:07:08,000 Speaker 2: school fees. 152 00:07:08,240 --> 00:07:10,520 Speaker 5: And this came out because her evidence, as you just mentioned, 153 00:07:10,520 --> 00:07:13,520 Speaker 5: Penny was that she was loved by her in laws 154 00:07:13,600 --> 00:07:15,640 Speaker 5: and that she had a great relationship with them. 155 00:07:15,640 --> 00:07:17,920 Speaker 3: She found that they were really, really supportive. 156 00:07:17,400 --> 00:07:19,640 Speaker 5: And she wanted to spend time with them, hence why 157 00:07:19,680 --> 00:07:23,080 Speaker 5: she invited them in and Heather over for lunch. But 158 00:07:23,120 --> 00:07:25,280 Speaker 5: then we heard as well a lot about these Facebook 159 00:07:25,320 --> 00:07:29,520 Speaker 5: messages where there was expletive written messages read out to 160 00:07:29,640 --> 00:07:32,840 Speaker 5: the jury, and Aaron Patterson was asked whether or not 161 00:07:32,840 --> 00:07:35,480 Speaker 5: they were her true feelings about her family. She maintained 162 00:07:35,520 --> 00:07:40,160 Speaker 5: know that she was just frustrated at that time. But 163 00:07:40,360 --> 00:07:42,800 Speaker 5: again and again we heard from Nannette Rogers whether or 164 00:07:42,840 --> 00:07:45,720 Speaker 5: not that was correct or did you have two faces? 165 00:07:46,040 --> 00:07:48,080 Speaker 6: Yeah, we'll hear a little bit more of this evidence now. 166 00:07:48,160 --> 00:07:50,800 Speaker 2: Now, this follows Aaron Patterson being asked a number of 167 00:07:50,880 --> 00:07:53,920 Speaker 2: times about what she said to other witnesses, including in 168 00:07:53,960 --> 00:07:57,120 Speaker 2: her police interview, about loving Don and Gail Patterson. 169 00:07:57,400 --> 00:08:01,080 Speaker 1: I suggest that you didn't love them, correct or incorrect. 170 00:08:01,480 --> 00:08:02,400 Speaker 4: That's not true. 171 00:08:02,640 --> 00:08:06,040 Speaker 1: I suggest that you were angry that they took Simon's 172 00:08:06,080 --> 00:08:08,720 Speaker 1: side in your argument with him in twenty twenty two 173 00:08:09,080 --> 00:08:13,080 Speaker 1: about the child allowance. That's not true, and that feeling 174 00:08:13,200 --> 00:08:18,680 Speaker 1: towards them continued correct or incorrect incorrect. In fact, you 175 00:08:18,760 --> 00:08:22,240 Speaker 1: had two faces, a public face of appearing to have 176 00:08:22,280 --> 00:08:25,600 Speaker 1: a good relationship with Don and Gail as shown to 177 00:08:25,640 --> 00:08:30,560 Speaker 1: people like Simon, Anna, Tanya, Matt, Ruth Dubois, Professor Stewart 178 00:08:30,560 --> 00:08:34,359 Speaker 1: and police in your record of interview. Agree or disagree? 179 00:08:34,640 --> 00:08:37,320 Speaker 4: Are you asking me to agree if I had two faces? 180 00:08:38,120 --> 00:08:41,080 Speaker 1: I'm asking you, do you agree that you had a 181 00:08:41,080 --> 00:08:44,280 Speaker 1: public face of appearing to have a good relationship with 182 00:08:44,360 --> 00:08:45,400 Speaker 1: Don and Gail. 183 00:08:46,160 --> 00:08:48,160 Speaker 4: I had a good relationship with Don and Gail. 184 00:08:48,679 --> 00:08:51,880 Speaker 1: I suggest that your private face was the one you 185 00:08:51,960 --> 00:08:56,520 Speaker 1: showed in your Facebook messenger use correct or incorrect incorrect, 186 00:08:56,640 --> 00:08:59,520 Speaker 1: And how you truly felt about Don and Gail was 187 00:08:59,760 --> 00:09:02,920 Speaker 1: at as you expressed it in your Facebook messages correct 188 00:09:03,000 --> 00:09:06,760 Speaker 1: or incorrect, incorrect, And that is how you really felt 189 00:09:06,760 --> 00:09:11,120 Speaker 1: about Simon Patterson as expressed to your Facebook friends correct 190 00:09:11,240 --> 00:09:13,080 Speaker 1: or incorrect, incorrect. 191 00:09:13,559 --> 00:09:16,480 Speaker 2: Now, another part that the jury has been taken through 192 00:09:16,640 --> 00:09:19,360 Speaker 2: a sort of at different times of the evidence is 193 00:09:19,360 --> 00:09:23,560 Speaker 2: this alleged conversation that Aaron Patterson says Simon Patterson had 194 00:09:23,600 --> 00:09:26,160 Speaker 2: with her at the hospital at Monash Hospital in the 195 00:09:26,240 --> 00:09:27,600 Speaker 2: days after the lunch while she. 196 00:09:27,600 --> 00:09:28,400 Speaker 6: Was being treated. 197 00:09:28,679 --> 00:09:31,840 Speaker 2: Now, she says that her estranged husband asked her, is 198 00:09:31,880 --> 00:09:35,480 Speaker 2: that how you poisoned my parents? Referring to a dehydrateor 199 00:09:35,520 --> 00:09:38,440 Speaker 2: following a discussion about dried mushrooms. Now, it has been 200 00:09:38,480 --> 00:09:42,960 Speaker 2: mentioned during her cross examination that she says, this is 201 00:09:43,000 --> 00:09:45,320 Speaker 2: the first time the thought crossed her mind that there 202 00:09:45,360 --> 00:09:48,360 Speaker 2: was a possibility there were foraged mushrooms in the meal 203 00:09:48,400 --> 00:09:49,680 Speaker 2: that she had served her guests. 204 00:09:49,800 --> 00:09:52,320 Speaker 5: Yeah, Nedette Roger said, this is why she was pressing 205 00:09:52,360 --> 00:09:55,520 Speaker 5: the accused woman on the order of events that then 206 00:09:55,640 --> 00:09:59,560 Speaker 5: followed this conversation with Simon Patterson in the hospital room, 207 00:09:59,559 --> 00:10:02,600 Speaker 5: and this is in her evidence. Aaron Patterson said her 208 00:10:02,679 --> 00:10:04,520 Speaker 5: estrange husband was only in the room with her for 209 00:10:04,559 --> 00:10:06,559 Speaker 5: about five minutes. In fact, she said that she was 210 00:10:06,640 --> 00:10:08,640 Speaker 5: largely there with the two kids in the room, and 211 00:10:08,800 --> 00:10:10,720 Speaker 5: when he was there, he was on his phone or 212 00:10:10,800 --> 00:10:13,040 Speaker 5: out in the hallway on his phone. And this was 213 00:10:13,360 --> 00:10:15,720 Speaker 5: this conversation occurred during a five minute window when they 214 00:10:15,760 --> 00:10:18,600 Speaker 5: were left alone. And as I said, that's why the 215 00:10:18,640 --> 00:10:21,800 Speaker 5: questioning was about the timeframe. What happened next? And Aaron 216 00:10:21,800 --> 00:10:24,719 Speaker 5: Patterson said, yes, after I left hospital, this is what 217 00:10:24,760 --> 00:10:27,439 Speaker 5: I did. This is I got rid of the dehydrator 218 00:10:27,520 --> 00:10:29,800 Speaker 5: and I was worried, and in her evidence she was 219 00:10:29,800 --> 00:10:31,480 Speaker 5: worried that the kids could be taken away if there 220 00:10:31,520 --> 00:10:33,600 Speaker 5: was any sort of connection there. But as you said, Penny, 221 00:10:33,640 --> 00:10:35,520 Speaker 5: she maintained that that was the first time in that 222 00:10:35,600 --> 00:10:38,240 Speaker 5: hospital that she really started to think maybe there was 223 00:10:38,280 --> 00:10:40,800 Speaker 5: another type of mushrooms that made their way into her meal. 224 00:10:41,120 --> 00:10:41,320 Speaker 7: Yeah. 225 00:10:41,320 --> 00:10:44,400 Speaker 2: And she was asked on whether so she had this 226 00:10:44,440 --> 00:10:47,199 Speaker 2: conversation and then in after she's got out of hospital 227 00:10:47,240 --> 00:10:49,760 Speaker 2: that next day she's driven her children to school, she says, 228 00:10:49,840 --> 00:10:52,200 Speaker 2: then she's got rid of the dehydrator. She was asked, 229 00:10:52,520 --> 00:10:56,120 Speaker 2: at any point did she ever tell any medical professionals 230 00:10:56,160 --> 00:10:58,080 Speaker 2: that there was a chance that there could have been 231 00:10:58,400 --> 00:11:01,680 Speaker 2: any sort of foraged mushrooms in this and she said no, never, 232 00:11:01,880 --> 00:11:04,640 Speaker 2: And her evidence is that she's never told anyone through 233 00:11:04,640 --> 00:11:06,679 Speaker 2: this whole process that there was a chance that there 234 00:11:06,720 --> 00:11:10,880 Speaker 2: were these foraged mushrooms that potentially in that meal. Now 235 00:11:11,200 --> 00:11:13,880 Speaker 2: she's been asked quite a bit about I naturalist, and 236 00:11:13,920 --> 00:11:16,160 Speaker 2: the jury and the listeners have heard this word a lot. 237 00:11:16,240 --> 00:11:18,400 Speaker 6: This citizen science website, as it's been. 238 00:11:18,280 --> 00:11:22,920 Speaker 2: Referred to, where people record different sightings of different flaora 239 00:11:23,160 --> 00:11:26,280 Speaker 2: and some of those being mushrooms now, she was asked 240 00:11:26,320 --> 00:11:31,640 Speaker 2: about whether she remembered visiting certain Eye Naturalists posts and 241 00:11:31,760 --> 00:11:34,040 Speaker 2: different parts of the website, and she's said through her 242 00:11:34,040 --> 00:11:37,520 Speaker 2: evidence that she doesn't remember ever going on I Naturalists. 243 00:11:37,120 --> 00:11:39,360 Speaker 5: But she does a dispute that she may have penny. 244 00:11:39,520 --> 00:11:42,400 Speaker 5: And this is at a time where the prosecution alleged 245 00:11:42,440 --> 00:11:46,880 Speaker 5: that Aaron Patterson was also ordering dinner online from a 246 00:11:47,000 --> 00:11:50,160 Speaker 5: nearby pub, and she said she also doesn't remember making 247 00:11:50,200 --> 00:11:52,240 Speaker 5: that order, but it was made under her name, with 248 00:11:52,280 --> 00:11:55,040 Speaker 5: her address and her phone number, and she said that. 249 00:11:55,000 --> 00:11:56,320 Speaker 3: It could possibly have been her. 250 00:11:56,400 --> 00:11:59,080 Speaker 5: She's not saying it wasn't her, but in both of 251 00:11:59,080 --> 00:12:01,360 Speaker 5: those instances she just said she doesn't have a memory of. 252 00:12:01,320 --> 00:12:01,760 Speaker 3: It at all. 253 00:12:02,080 --> 00:12:04,559 Speaker 2: Yeah, And the prosecution, as you'll hear through this bit 254 00:12:04,600 --> 00:12:07,720 Speaker 2: of evidence, is talking about the I Naturalist post being 255 00:12:07,800 --> 00:12:10,880 Speaker 2: viewed on a computer that was seized from Aaron Patterson's 256 00:12:10,880 --> 00:12:13,880 Speaker 2: home and also that pub order being made a sort 257 00:12:13,920 --> 00:12:16,880 Speaker 2: of the same time, and they're putting this to the 258 00:12:17,040 --> 00:12:20,040 Speaker 2: witness in Aaron Patterson, the accused woman. So this is 259 00:12:20,120 --> 00:12:22,200 Speaker 2: quite lengthy, but we want you to hear the way 260 00:12:22,240 --> 00:12:24,360 Speaker 2: this went back and forth in court as part of 261 00:12:24,400 --> 00:12:27,360 Speaker 2: the cross examination. This is the words of Nannette Rogers 262 00:12:27,400 --> 00:12:29,320 Speaker 2: and Aaron Patterson. It's voiced by actors. 263 00:12:29,880 --> 00:12:33,840 Speaker 1: You knew how to use the map function on I Naturalist. 264 00:12:33,960 --> 00:12:37,439 Speaker 1: Correct Or is it your evidence that you don't remember? 265 00:12:38,000 --> 00:12:41,360 Speaker 7: I don't remember ever using the site, so questions like 266 00:12:41,400 --> 00:12:42,880 Speaker 7: that are difficult to answer. 267 00:12:43,520 --> 00:12:46,320 Speaker 1: Or did you use the site to utilize the map function? 268 00:12:46,679 --> 00:12:48,240 Speaker 4: I don't remember using the site. 269 00:12:48,320 --> 00:12:50,880 Speaker 1: I suggest you knew how to click on the little 270 00:12:51,080 --> 00:12:53,640 Speaker 1: icons on the map to bring up the relevant post. 271 00:12:53,840 --> 00:12:57,120 Speaker 1: Correct or incorrect. I don't know you did that for 272 00:12:57,200 --> 00:13:01,120 Speaker 1: this I Naturalist post about deathcap mushrooms in Morabin correct 273 00:13:01,240 --> 00:13:01,840 Speaker 1: or incorrect? 274 00:13:02,200 --> 00:13:04,640 Speaker 4: Well, somebody did, and that somebody could have been me. 275 00:13:05,240 --> 00:13:07,320 Speaker 1: Now I want to take you to another part of 276 00:13:07,320 --> 00:13:11,200 Speaker 1: the exhibit. I've asked you questions about this previously, but 277 00:13:11,320 --> 00:13:14,840 Speaker 1: my specific question in terms of this is that against 278 00:13:14,840 --> 00:13:17,880 Speaker 1: the visit count on the left hand side, there's the 279 00:13:18,000 --> 00:13:20,120 Speaker 1: number two. Do you see that? 280 00:13:20,760 --> 00:13:21,000 Speaker 4: Yes? 281 00:13:21,040 --> 00:13:21,240 Speaker 2: I do? 282 00:13:21,840 --> 00:13:25,720 Speaker 1: You had visited the URL once before on this device? Correct? 283 00:13:26,559 --> 00:13:29,280 Speaker 4: Yes, correct, and I believe it was two seconds earlier. 284 00:13:29,520 --> 00:13:31,920 Speaker 1: I suggest you're wrong about that. Correct or incorrect? 285 00:13:32,320 --> 00:13:33,319 Speaker 4: Ah, I'm correct. 286 00:13:33,679 --> 00:13:38,720 Speaker 1: Can you go please to page eleven record two, so 287 00:13:38,840 --> 00:13:41,600 Speaker 1: on the same date that we've been talking about. Twenty 288 00:13:41,679 --> 00:13:45,840 Speaker 1: eighth of May twenty three, at seven twenty three pm, 289 00:13:46,160 --> 00:13:49,240 Speaker 1: you navigated to the web address of the current Borough 290 00:13:49,320 --> 00:13:52,320 Speaker 1: Middle Hotel or Middle Pub. Correct. 291 00:13:52,679 --> 00:13:54,520 Speaker 4: It looks like somebody did, yes. 292 00:13:54,920 --> 00:13:58,080 Speaker 1: Three minutes after you had accessed the I Naturalist page 293 00:13:58,080 --> 00:14:00,880 Speaker 1: at seven twenty pm correct or correct. 294 00:14:01,080 --> 00:14:02,719 Speaker 4: Three minutes after somebody did. 295 00:14:02,880 --> 00:14:05,120 Speaker 1: Are you suggesting that it might have been your son? 296 00:14:05,320 --> 00:14:06,560 Speaker 4: I'm not suggesting anything. 297 00:14:07,040 --> 00:14:08,720 Speaker 1: Are you suggesting it was your daughter? 298 00:14:08,840 --> 00:14:10,000 Speaker 4: I'm not suggesting anything. 299 00:14:10,000 --> 00:14:11,960 Speaker 1: Who lived in your house on the twenty eighth of 300 00:14:11,960 --> 00:14:13,199 Speaker 1: May twenty twenty. 301 00:14:12,880 --> 00:14:14,880 Speaker 4: Two, myself and my two children. 302 00:14:15,040 --> 00:14:18,360 Speaker 1: In terms of the evidence, there's been evidence that there 303 00:14:18,400 --> 00:14:21,240 Speaker 1: was a purchase confirmed by the curran Borough Middle Hotel, 304 00:14:21,480 --> 00:14:24,840 Speaker 1: a receipt provided in your name for the purchase of 305 00:14:24,920 --> 00:14:28,359 Speaker 1: meals and the bottle of soft drink utilizing the hotel's 306 00:14:28,440 --> 00:14:32,680 Speaker 1: online ordering provider. Your phone number was ending in seven 307 00:14:32,800 --> 00:14:37,560 Speaker 1: eighty three correct. Correct, and the name. The evidence has 308 00:14:37,600 --> 00:14:41,320 Speaker 1: been that the name entered into the website was yours. 309 00:14:41,520 --> 00:14:41,960 Speaker 4: Correct. 310 00:14:42,160 --> 00:14:46,120 Speaker 1: You heard that evidence? Yes, I suggest that it was 311 00:14:46,200 --> 00:14:48,960 Speaker 1: you who placed the order correct or incorrect? 312 00:14:49,560 --> 00:14:50,800 Speaker 4: I don't know now. 313 00:14:50,800 --> 00:14:54,560 Speaker 2: Aaron Patterson has also been taken to the circumstances again 314 00:14:54,720 --> 00:14:57,680 Speaker 2: of this particular lunch by the prosecution, and she was 315 00:14:57,720 --> 00:15:01,120 Speaker 2: asked a bit about the play that this meal was 316 00:15:01,160 --> 00:15:03,600 Speaker 2: served on in her kitchen and her dining room on 317 00:15:03,680 --> 00:15:04,080 Speaker 2: that day. 318 00:15:04,680 --> 00:15:08,360 Speaker 5: Yeah, and that was over multiple days of her evidence 319 00:15:08,480 --> 00:15:11,160 Speaker 5: that the prosecution went back to the plates and how 320 00:15:11,240 --> 00:15:12,640 Speaker 5: many did you own and what do they look like 321 00:15:12,680 --> 00:15:15,040 Speaker 5: and what color were they and here's the evidence of 322 00:15:15,320 --> 00:15:19,000 Speaker 5: Ian Wilkinson and is this something you agree or disagree with? 323 00:15:19,200 --> 00:15:22,160 Speaker 5: And Aaron Patterson said, I disagree. Her memory of the 324 00:15:22,160 --> 00:15:25,200 Speaker 5: plates that she owned, she told the jury was that 325 00:15:25,240 --> 00:15:26,160 Speaker 5: she actually didn't. 326 00:15:25,960 --> 00:15:28,280 Speaker 3: Have a full set of plates. She did think that 327 00:15:28,320 --> 00:15:28,880 Speaker 3: she might have. 328 00:15:28,920 --> 00:15:33,400 Speaker 5: Some smaller black sort of side plates, but largely, she 329 00:15:33,840 --> 00:15:35,560 Speaker 5: said that was a little bit sort of ad hoc. 330 00:15:36,200 --> 00:15:37,520 Speaker 5: She did have some of that were red on the 331 00:15:37,560 --> 00:15:40,960 Speaker 5: top and darker on the bottom, but she didn't remember 332 00:15:41,320 --> 00:15:45,840 Speaker 5: deliberately in any way, shape or form selecting certain plates. 333 00:15:45,840 --> 00:15:50,160 Speaker 5: She didn't remember plating up plates for different people. In fact, 334 00:15:50,200 --> 00:15:53,120 Speaker 5: her memory was when she went to grab her plate 335 00:15:53,160 --> 00:15:54,960 Speaker 5: to sit down, it was the only plate left and 336 00:15:54,960 --> 00:15:56,320 Speaker 5: that's the reason she took it. 337 00:15:56,680 --> 00:15:58,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, And through her evidence, she's been brought back to 338 00:15:58,840 --> 00:16:00,800 Speaker 2: this moment as well through the tree script as well, 339 00:16:00,840 --> 00:16:03,400 Speaker 2: that she says she was making the gravy, that she 340 00:16:03,520 --> 00:16:06,480 Speaker 2: turned away. When she turned back, four of the plates 341 00:16:06,480 --> 00:16:08,680 Speaker 2: were gone, and she'd sort of said, grab a plate, guys, 342 00:16:09,120 --> 00:16:11,600 Speaker 2: But that then she took her plate over to that 343 00:16:12,400 --> 00:16:15,320 Speaker 2: to that seating area, and that there were no assigned 344 00:16:15,360 --> 00:16:17,920 Speaker 2: seats or assigned plates. Now it was put to the 345 00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:22,360 Speaker 2: accused by the prosecution an allegation of did you serve 346 00:16:22,440 --> 00:16:24,760 Speaker 2: your food on a particular colored plate? And was that 347 00:16:24,840 --> 00:16:28,080 Speaker 2: a non poisoned meal? Was the words that Thenette Rogers used, 348 00:16:28,080 --> 00:16:29,200 Speaker 2: and she denied that. 349 00:16:29,320 --> 00:16:31,240 Speaker 6: She said that all of these meals were the. 350 00:16:31,200 --> 00:16:34,360 Speaker 2: Same, and she was asked quite a bit about what 351 00:16:34,480 --> 00:16:37,200 Speaker 2: had happened after this meal. Now she's given evidence that 352 00:16:37,720 --> 00:16:40,160 Speaker 2: after the meal she ate quite a bit of orange cake, 353 00:16:40,320 --> 00:16:43,240 Speaker 2: and Aaron Patterson's account is that she then made herself 354 00:16:43,280 --> 00:16:47,240 Speaker 2: ill after that. Now she was asked about that incident, 355 00:16:47,320 --> 00:16:49,920 Speaker 2: but also how much she had eaten of the particular 356 00:16:49,960 --> 00:16:52,400 Speaker 2: beef Wellington, and she's gone back and forth with saying 357 00:16:52,760 --> 00:16:55,000 Speaker 2: it was around half, it was around a quarter, around 358 00:16:55,000 --> 00:16:56,520 Speaker 2: a third. She used the words I didn't have a 359 00:16:56,560 --> 00:16:59,320 Speaker 2: measuring tape, so she doesn't know exactly she says how 360 00:16:59,400 --> 00:17:02,880 Speaker 2: much beef Welling she ate. She also says she couldn't 361 00:17:02,880 --> 00:17:05,240 Speaker 2: be sure whether or not that beef Wellington came up 362 00:17:05,359 --> 00:17:07,760 Speaker 2: when she was sick after the cake, and when she 363 00:17:07,840 --> 00:17:11,480 Speaker 2: was pressed on that and to whether she had said 364 00:17:11,520 --> 00:17:15,399 Speaker 2: these things in her evidence as a way to basically 365 00:17:15,800 --> 00:17:18,560 Speaker 2: explain why she wasn't as sick as these other guests, 366 00:17:18,840 --> 00:17:22,240 Speaker 2: Aaron Patterson again disputed that allegation from the prosecution, and 367 00:17:22,280 --> 00:17:24,880 Speaker 2: she said, no, that's not the case, that she genuinely 368 00:17:24,960 --> 00:17:27,040 Speaker 2: was sick, but she hadn't told anyone about that. 369 00:17:27,119 --> 00:17:29,480 Speaker 5: She told the jury that yes, I told you all 370 00:17:29,480 --> 00:17:32,359 Speaker 5: that I vomited, but I never told the jury in 371 00:17:32,400 --> 00:17:34,920 Speaker 5: my mind what I vomited up. And she was asked 372 00:17:34,960 --> 00:17:37,320 Speaker 5: a lot about the time of day potentially this happened, 373 00:17:37,760 --> 00:17:41,240 Speaker 5: and she said, you couldn't put a pinpoint a time, 374 00:17:41,520 --> 00:17:42,119 Speaker 5: but it was sort of. 375 00:17:42,160 --> 00:17:44,280 Speaker 3: Late afternoon before evening. 376 00:17:44,680 --> 00:17:47,280 Speaker 5: And it got a little bit tense in the room 377 00:17:47,480 --> 00:17:50,560 Speaker 5: with a bit of questioning back and forth between Aaron 378 00:17:50,600 --> 00:17:54,160 Speaker 5: Patterson and Annette Rodgers at this point when Aaron was like, well, 379 00:17:54,400 --> 00:17:56,960 Speaker 5: I can't tell you what I vomited up. I don't 380 00:17:57,000 --> 00:18:00,400 Speaker 5: know if it was beef Wellington it's vomit. I can't 381 00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:02,520 Speaker 5: tell you what's in it. And she said, look, it 382 00:18:02,520 --> 00:18:05,320 Speaker 5: could have been beans or corn. Maybe then i'd be 383 00:18:05,359 --> 00:18:06,640 Speaker 5: able to tell you what was in it. And Nett 384 00:18:06,720 --> 00:18:09,760 Speaker 5: Rogers turned around quite quickly and said, well, I never 385 00:18:09,760 --> 00:18:12,800 Speaker 5: said that there was corn in the meal. And at 386 00:18:12,800 --> 00:18:14,720 Speaker 5: that point there was I see a lot of heads 387 00:18:14,760 --> 00:18:18,000 Speaker 5: turning and looking around in the courtroom as at exchange 388 00:18:18,000 --> 00:18:19,320 Speaker 5: got a little bit uncomfortable. 389 00:18:19,880 --> 00:18:21,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, and we'll talk a little bit more in a 390 00:18:21,880 --> 00:18:24,480 Speaker 2: moment about Aaron Patterson and the symptoms and the illness 391 00:18:24,480 --> 00:18:27,360 Speaker 2: that she said she then suffered as a result of 392 00:18:27,400 --> 00:18:30,600 Speaker 2: this meal. But first we'll take you through again some 393 00:18:30,720 --> 00:18:32,879 Speaker 2: of the medical evidence. But this is in relation to 394 00:18:33,359 --> 00:18:36,600 Speaker 2: what the prosecution has been putting to Aaron Patterson about 395 00:18:36,880 --> 00:18:40,040 Speaker 2: what she did after the meal and why she did 396 00:18:40,440 --> 00:18:43,080 Speaker 2: what she did at that time. Now, Aaron Patterson presented 397 00:18:43,119 --> 00:18:45,840 Speaker 2: two days after the fatal lunch tu Lee and Gatha Hospital. 398 00:18:46,119 --> 00:18:49,199 Speaker 2: That morning, after dropping her children at a bus to 399 00:18:49,240 --> 00:18:51,919 Speaker 2: go to school, she says that she arrived at the 400 00:18:51,920 --> 00:18:54,240 Speaker 2: hospital and it's been agreed through the evidence around eight 401 00:18:54,240 --> 00:18:56,520 Speaker 2: oh five in the morning that she's then left the 402 00:18:56,560 --> 00:18:59,840 Speaker 2: hospital and then she's returned again around an hour and 403 00:19:00,040 --> 00:19:02,240 Speaker 2: forty minutes, just over an hour and a half later 404 00:19:02,320 --> 00:19:05,240 Speaker 2: and represented at Lee and Gatha Hospital. Now it was 405 00:19:05,280 --> 00:19:07,639 Speaker 2: put to Aaron Patterson was the reason that she had 406 00:19:07,720 --> 00:19:11,480 Speaker 2: left this particular hospital because she wanted to get away 407 00:19:11,520 --> 00:19:13,520 Speaker 2: from there and try and cover her tracks. 408 00:19:13,720 --> 00:19:15,680 Speaker 5: Yeah, we had there was an hour and thirty eight minutes, 409 00:19:15,760 --> 00:19:19,119 Speaker 5: was my recollection, Penny of how long the other witnesses 410 00:19:19,160 --> 00:19:22,440 Speaker 5: believe that Aaron Patterson was gone from the hospital. For 411 00:19:23,400 --> 00:19:26,600 Speaker 5: her evidence is that she arrived not really prepared to 412 00:19:26,600 --> 00:19:28,560 Speaker 5: be admitted to hospital. She thought she might have some 413 00:19:28,600 --> 00:19:31,760 Speaker 5: IV fluids and then you know, be sent home with 414 00:19:31,840 --> 00:19:35,680 Speaker 5: some gashtro But her account was when she found out 415 00:19:35,720 --> 00:19:37,920 Speaker 5: that she was potentially going to be sent to Melbourne, 416 00:19:37,960 --> 00:19:41,000 Speaker 5: she needed to do some things first, so she said 417 00:19:41,040 --> 00:19:42,879 Speaker 5: she went home, she looked after the animals, got some 418 00:19:42,920 --> 00:19:45,560 Speaker 5: stuff organized for her daughter, and then was asked if 419 00:19:45,560 --> 00:19:47,359 Speaker 5: perhaps she had a bit of a lay down during 420 00:19:47,440 --> 00:19:50,880 Speaker 5: that time, and she maintained that no, she wasn't trying 421 00:19:50,880 --> 00:19:53,800 Speaker 5: to cover her tracks in this period. She denied that 422 00:19:53,880 --> 00:19:57,240 Speaker 5: she was leaving the hospital to make plans and was 423 00:19:57,920 --> 00:20:00,560 Speaker 5: you know, fearful to learn that maybe medical stuff were 424 00:20:01,119 --> 00:20:03,000 Speaker 5: cottoning on to the fact that there was death cap 425 00:20:03,040 --> 00:20:05,600 Speaker 5: mushrooms in the meal earlier than expected. These were things 426 00:20:05,640 --> 00:20:08,639 Speaker 5: she really denied, again and again and again she said, no, no, no, 427 00:20:08,680 --> 00:20:10,720 Speaker 5: this is not the case at all, as the questions 428 00:20:10,720 --> 00:20:12,080 Speaker 5: came thick and fast, and. 429 00:20:12,040 --> 00:20:15,240 Speaker 2: Will take you through this in the evidence that you're hearing, 430 00:20:15,320 --> 00:20:18,840 Speaker 2: voiced by actors, in the context, and also in the 431 00:20:18,880 --> 00:20:20,639 Speaker 2: timing that it's been heard by the court. 432 00:20:20,680 --> 00:20:22,520 Speaker 6: So this first little. 433 00:20:22,320 --> 00:20:25,480 Speaker 2: Exchange that you're hearing is in regards to how Aaron 434 00:20:25,480 --> 00:20:27,719 Speaker 2: Patterson was feeling at the time that she first presented 435 00:20:27,720 --> 00:20:29,000 Speaker 2: at the Lee and Gatha Hospital. 436 00:20:29,359 --> 00:20:31,600 Speaker 1: I want to suggest to you that you were stressed 437 00:20:31,920 --> 00:20:34,520 Speaker 1: when you were at the hospital on this first presentation 438 00:20:35,160 --> 00:20:36,280 Speaker 1: correct or incorrect. 439 00:20:36,480 --> 00:20:38,600 Speaker 4: I probably was very stressed, yes. 440 00:20:38,600 --> 00:20:41,920 Speaker 1: And I suggest that the reason you were stressed was 441 00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:46,640 Speaker 1: because doctors suspected death cap mushroom poisoning for the lunch 442 00:20:46,680 --> 00:20:48,760 Speaker 1: guests correct or incorrect. 443 00:20:49,200 --> 00:20:51,159 Speaker 4: That definitely was a cause of anxiety. Yeah. 444 00:20:51,680 --> 00:20:54,760 Speaker 1: I suggest that you were shocked that the doctors were 445 00:20:54,760 --> 00:20:56,760 Speaker 1: on to death cap mushrooms so quickly. 446 00:20:57,000 --> 00:20:58,040 Speaker 4: I wouldn't put it like that. 447 00:20:58,320 --> 00:20:59,680 Speaker 1: Well, how would you put it. 448 00:21:00,359 --> 00:21:02,639 Speaker 4: At the idea that we might have eaten those things? 449 00:21:03,280 --> 00:21:06,600 Speaker 1: I'm suggesting that you were shocked that the doctors were 450 00:21:06,600 --> 00:21:11,400 Speaker 1: on to death cat mushrooms so quickly correct or incorrect, incorrect, 451 00:21:11,920 --> 00:21:14,160 Speaker 1: and you were worried that you were going to get 452 00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:18,879 Speaker 1: caught correct or incorrect, incorrect, and further that you weren't 453 00:21:18,880 --> 00:21:22,440 Speaker 1: prepared to answer questions about why death cat mushrooms were 454 00:21:22,440 --> 00:21:24,600 Speaker 1: in the meal correct or incorrect. 455 00:21:24,920 --> 00:21:27,840 Speaker 7: I don't think anyone ever tried to ask me that question, 456 00:21:27,880 --> 00:21:29,800 Speaker 7: so I'm not sure what you're referring to. 457 00:21:30,040 --> 00:21:30,200 Speaker 6: Now. 458 00:21:30,240 --> 00:21:32,480 Speaker 2: She's told the court, as you mentioned, that she needed 459 00:21:32,520 --> 00:21:34,880 Speaker 2: to get some things for her children, including. 460 00:21:34,480 --> 00:21:36,960 Speaker 6: A ballet bag. She says that she had to pack 461 00:21:37,080 --> 00:21:38,280 Speaker 6: for her daughter. 462 00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:38,560 Speaker 3: Now. 463 00:21:38,600 --> 00:21:40,720 Speaker 2: She noted in her evidence she was pushed on whether 464 00:21:40,800 --> 00:21:43,200 Speaker 2: her daughter had ballet that Daynette Rodgers said it was 465 00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:45,480 Speaker 2: a Monday and that she didn't have ballet usually on 466 00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:48,440 Speaker 2: a Monday, but Aaron Patterson insisted that this ballet bag 467 00:21:48,480 --> 00:21:49,399 Speaker 2: was something that she packed. 468 00:21:49,560 --> 00:21:52,520 Speaker 5: Yeah, she recalled that there was a concert rehearsal of sorts. 469 00:21:52,520 --> 00:21:55,320 Speaker 5: She couldn't remember exactly where it was, but she was 470 00:21:55,480 --> 00:21:57,800 Speaker 5: very very specific of her on her memory that this 471 00:21:58,160 --> 00:21:59,480 Speaker 5: is one of the things that I needed to do. 472 00:21:59,560 --> 00:22:02,040 Speaker 5: I needed to a home and pack this bag and 473 00:22:02,080 --> 00:22:04,159 Speaker 5: get it ready for her daughter's ballet. And it was 474 00:22:04,520 --> 00:22:07,520 Speaker 5: later mentioned that Simon Patterson, her strange husband, had to 475 00:22:07,520 --> 00:22:10,199 Speaker 5: go and cancel that appointment. But this was part of 476 00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:12,680 Speaker 5: the questioning around whether or not she panicked and needed 477 00:22:12,680 --> 00:22:15,800 Speaker 5: to go and make plans because you know, she was 478 00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:18,680 Speaker 5: being found out for these alleged crimes. But as I 479 00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:21,720 Speaker 5: said earlier, she denied every single suggestion that that was 480 00:22:21,760 --> 00:22:22,200 Speaker 5: the case. 481 00:22:22,359 --> 00:22:24,200 Speaker 2: And we'll hear a little bit more of the evidence now. 482 00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:26,959 Speaker 2: This is again regarding Simon Patterson and the evidence that 483 00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:30,160 Speaker 2: he's given before this element that you're about to hear. 484 00:22:30,320 --> 00:22:34,520 Speaker 2: Aaron Patterson was disputing his evidence where he told the 485 00:22:34,520 --> 00:22:36,440 Speaker 2: court that she told him on a phone call she'd 486 00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:38,879 Speaker 2: gone home and laid down for around forty five minutes. 487 00:22:38,920 --> 00:22:40,760 Speaker 2: She said she didn't think it would be that long 488 00:22:40,800 --> 00:22:43,520 Speaker 2: that she laid down for, but she had already by 489 00:22:43,520 --> 00:22:45,159 Speaker 2: the time you hear what you're about to hear, been 490 00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:48,480 Speaker 2: going back quite a few times with the prosecutor about 491 00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:50,480 Speaker 2: how long that laid down was. 492 00:22:51,119 --> 00:22:54,320 Speaker 1: Surely that's the last thing you would do in these circumstances. 493 00:22:54,720 --> 00:22:56,639 Speaker 4: It might be the last thing you'd do, but it 494 00:22:56,680 --> 00:22:57,400 Speaker 4: was something I. 495 00:22:57,359 --> 00:23:00,679 Speaker 1: Did after you'd been told by medical staff that you 496 00:23:00,760 --> 00:23:05,359 Speaker 1: had potentially ingested a life threatening poison, isn't it. The 497 00:23:05,440 --> 00:23:08,960 Speaker 1: last thing that you would do is to lie down 498 00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:10,760 Speaker 1: in those circumstances. 499 00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:13,200 Speaker 4: They didn't tell me it was life threatening. 500 00:23:13,680 --> 00:23:16,600 Speaker 1: They didn't tell you your life was at risk. 501 00:23:16,960 --> 00:23:19,919 Speaker 4: No at all, not in that first conversation. 502 00:23:20,080 --> 00:23:23,919 Speaker 1: No, No one told you. No medical witness told you, 503 00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:26,680 Speaker 1: No medical member of staff told you that you were 504 00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:30,280 Speaker 1: at risk, that your life was at risk in that 505 00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:32,520 Speaker 1: first presentation at Leanngatha Hospital. 506 00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:35,760 Speaker 7: No excuse me, Nobody between eight oh five and eight 507 00:23:35,840 --> 00:23:37,680 Speaker 7: ten told me my life was at risk. 508 00:23:37,840 --> 00:23:41,000 Speaker 1: No, but they told you that they suspected death cap 509 00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:42,119 Speaker 1: mushroom poisoning. 510 00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:43,320 Speaker 4: Correct, they did. 511 00:23:43,800 --> 00:23:47,280 Speaker 1: You left Leanngatha Hospital under your own steam, walked out. 512 00:23:47,880 --> 00:23:50,879 Speaker 1: I did walk out, And from the CCTV footage of 513 00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:54,080 Speaker 1: you leaving the hospital, there's no indication that you're in pain. 514 00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:56,840 Speaker 1: Would you agree with that? No outward sign? 515 00:23:57,240 --> 00:23:58,200 Speaker 4: I have no idea. 516 00:23:58,320 --> 00:24:02,040 Speaker 2: We'll be back with more of Aaron Patterson evidence after this. Now, 517 00:24:02,119 --> 00:24:05,080 Speaker 2: the next thing Aaron Patterson was taken through in detail 518 00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:08,040 Speaker 2: was as well as what she was doing in this 519 00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:11,520 Speaker 2: time frame between presenting and then representing a lean Gatha 520 00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:14,480 Speaker 2: Hospital was what her mobile phone might have been doing, 521 00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:17,480 Speaker 2: and she was asked about what doctor Cerel, a phone 522 00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:20,760 Speaker 2: tower expert, has said in his evidence regarding the movements 523 00:24:20,760 --> 00:24:21,760 Speaker 2: of her mobile phone. 524 00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:25,679 Speaker 5: Yeah, in the about hour after or thereabouts that she 525 00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:29,199 Speaker 5: left the hospital for the first time, we were told 526 00:24:29,359 --> 00:24:33,600 Speaker 5: that Sirel's evidence was the phone connected to Aaron Patterson 527 00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:36,119 Speaker 5: was pinging on a cell tower or a base station 528 00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:39,200 Speaker 5: in the lean Gatha area, which is where she lives 529 00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:41,120 Speaker 5: and also where the hospital is that she. 530 00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:42,159 Speaker 3: Had just left. 531 00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:45,359 Speaker 5: But yeah, and then the phone allegedly started to move. 532 00:24:45,960 --> 00:24:51,000 Speaker 5: Sirel's evidence was it later pinned off the Outreum base 533 00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:54,480 Speaker 5: station which is southwest of Lean Gathera And Aaron Patterson 534 00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:57,720 Speaker 5: was shown a map again today that circled Colin Burrough, 535 00:24:57,800 --> 00:25:01,320 Speaker 5: Lean Gatha, Outram Lock these airs that came out as 536 00:25:01,359 --> 00:25:04,800 Speaker 5: part of Cerel's evidence, and she was also pointed to 537 00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:07,400 Speaker 5: a major road and this is something she really questioned 538 00:25:07,400 --> 00:25:10,159 Speaker 5: the prosecution on and Neett Rodgers was saying, is it 539 00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:13,240 Speaker 5: possible that you took the main road out of town 540 00:25:13,359 --> 00:25:16,119 Speaker 5: to get to Outram And Aaron Patterson's evidence was, no, 541 00:25:16,600 --> 00:25:20,120 Speaker 5: it's the Beast Highway. It doesn't go to outram and 542 00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:22,520 Speaker 5: then the subject started to change a little bit, but 543 00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:24,960 Speaker 5: that map was up on the screen for quite a while. Penny, 544 00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:27,440 Speaker 5: as there's the line of questioning continued. 545 00:25:27,119 --> 00:25:30,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, And Aaron Patterson continued to insist through her evidence 546 00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:32,440 Speaker 2: that in that time that she left the hospital on 547 00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:35,119 Speaker 2: this Monday morning, two days after the lunch, that she 548 00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:37,720 Speaker 2: had simply gone to her home and lean Gatha made 549 00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:39,840 Speaker 2: the preparations that she needed to make, and that she 550 00:25:39,880 --> 00:25:42,880 Speaker 2: didn't leave, that she left the hospital to go home, 551 00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:44,560 Speaker 2: and she left home to go back to the hospital, 552 00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:45,840 Speaker 2: that she didn't go anywhere else. 553 00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:47,440 Speaker 6: That was her evidence. 554 00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:49,840 Speaker 2: But we'll hear a little bit more as the court 555 00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:53,320 Speaker 2: heard this regarding what Aaron Patterson was doing in this 556 00:25:53,600 --> 00:25:55,359 Speaker 2: just over an hour and a half, an hour and 557 00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:58,800 Speaker 2: thirty eight minutes, you thought it would be treated, I suggest, 558 00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:03,800 Speaker 2: as just a case of food poisoning correct or incorrect incorrect. 559 00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:06,800 Speaker 2: Once you were told that the medical staff had detected 560 00:26:06,840 --> 00:26:09,959 Speaker 2: deathcat mushrooms all suspected it, you had to think quickly 561 00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:14,679 Speaker 2: correct or incorrect incorrect to try and explain why you 562 00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:17,640 Speaker 2: were not sick correct incorrect, to try and cover your 563 00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:21,920 Speaker 2: tracks correct or incorrect incorrect, and that's what you spent 564 00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:24,159 Speaker 2: the one hour and forty minutes doing while you were 565 00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:26,640 Speaker 2: away from the hospital. Agree or disagree? 566 00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:28,280 Speaker 4: What are you saying I was doing. 567 00:26:28,280 --> 00:26:30,159 Speaker 1: Thinking about waste to cover your tracks? 568 00:26:30,359 --> 00:26:33,000 Speaker 7: Oh okay, you're saying I spent an hour and a 569 00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:33,760 Speaker 7: half thinking. 570 00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:35,040 Speaker 4: Is that what you're suggesting? 571 00:26:35,240 --> 00:26:38,280 Speaker 7: Yes, I'm sure I did some thinking in that time, 572 00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:40,080 Speaker 7: but it was not about covering my tracks. 573 00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:43,440 Speaker 5: So we heard as well Aaron Patterson explain to the 574 00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:46,000 Speaker 5: jury that when she returned to hospital that was because 575 00:26:46,040 --> 00:26:49,080 Speaker 5: she wanted to get treatment. There was no denying that 576 00:26:49,119 --> 00:26:51,200 Speaker 5: she wanted to get treatment at all them. It was 577 00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:53,320 Speaker 5: put to her that other witnesses said that she appeared 578 00:26:53,359 --> 00:26:56,920 Speaker 5: that she didn't really want to receive treatment. She was stressed, 579 00:26:56,920 --> 00:26:58,040 Speaker 5: and this is at a point when one of the 580 00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:00,760 Speaker 5: nurses was trying to canulate her and that so there 581 00:27:00,800 --> 00:27:03,360 Speaker 5: were sort of questions allegedly from. 582 00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:04,880 Speaker 3: The accuse saying, you know, do I need this? This 583 00:27:04,880 --> 00:27:05,720 Speaker 3: is necessary? 584 00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:09,159 Speaker 5: But Aaron Patterson's memory of those conversations were really different. 585 00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:11,760 Speaker 5: She maintained that she was feeling unwell and she really 586 00:27:11,800 --> 00:27:13,840 Speaker 5: wanted to get treatment and that's why she went to hospital. 587 00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:18,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, she's disputed a few accounts of the medical personnel's evidence, 588 00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:20,800 Speaker 2: and it was put to her Kylie Ashton, a nurse 589 00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:24,679 Speaker 2: at the Leanngatha Hospital, whether before she had left initially 590 00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:27,760 Speaker 2: left the hospital after that first presentation, if she had 591 00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:29,679 Speaker 2: had a discussion with her about her children, and she 592 00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:32,399 Speaker 2: says no, She said she was she must be confused 593 00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:34,600 Speaker 2: as in that nurse in her evidence that there was 594 00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:38,200 Speaker 2: no conversations about her children until the second time she returned, 595 00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:39,720 Speaker 2: and then she began having. 596 00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:40,680 Speaker 6: Some of this treatment. 597 00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:44,080 Speaker 2: Now she also, as people have just heard through the 598 00:27:44,520 --> 00:27:47,840 Speaker 2: laying down and a couple of other elements of Simon 599 00:27:47,840 --> 00:27:51,119 Speaker 2: Patterson's evidence, she's questioned and disputed that. 600 00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:52,560 Speaker 1: He called her. 601 00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:55,520 Speaker 2: She says he called her to ask whether she was 602 00:27:55,520 --> 00:27:58,480 Speaker 2: at church on the Sunday following the lunch on the Saturday. 603 00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:00,800 Speaker 2: It was put to her many times by the prosecution 604 00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:02,520 Speaker 2: as to whether that was the reason that he called, 605 00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:04,000 Speaker 2: and she said, well, the first thing he said to 606 00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:06,199 Speaker 2: me was are you at church? So to her she 607 00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:08,359 Speaker 2: said through her evidence that was the reason of the call. 608 00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:10,240 Speaker 2: And she was asked a number of times about the 609 00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:13,200 Speaker 2: evidence of her teenage son and what happened the day 610 00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:15,439 Speaker 2: after this lunch when he was going to a flying 611 00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:17,240 Speaker 2: lesson in tai Abb in Gippsland. 612 00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:19,040 Speaker 5: Yeah, there was a bit of back and forth at 613 00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:21,679 Speaker 5: that point over whether or not he needed to go 614 00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:23,399 Speaker 5: to the flying lesson, which of the two of them 615 00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:26,280 Speaker 5: said that they should go or shouldn't go, and which 616 00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:29,840 Speaker 5: of them had an unwell bally. Aaron Patterson's evidence was 617 00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:31,760 Speaker 5: that her son had had said that he had a 618 00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:35,080 Speaker 5: saw bally around that time, and it was her evidence 619 00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:37,280 Speaker 5: that she maybe hadn't mentioned it to them, so that 620 00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:38,960 Speaker 5: there was a little bit of back and forth then 621 00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:42,080 Speaker 5: about that flying lesson and questions about how long it 622 00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:44,360 Speaker 5: would have got would have taken penny for them to 623 00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:45,280 Speaker 5: get there and back. 624 00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:48,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, and she sort of mentioned through her evidence that 625 00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:51,200 Speaker 2: she agreed that this flying instructor who's had his evidence 626 00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:54,240 Speaker 2: read into the record, that she was quite annoyed and 627 00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:56,040 Speaker 2: a bit grumpy with him, which is what he said 628 00:28:56,040 --> 00:28:58,640 Speaker 2: in his evidence, because she had sort of taken this 629 00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:01,120 Speaker 2: drive that's around an hour and a half to get 630 00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:04,320 Speaker 2: to this particular airport, and that when she was very 631 00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:06,880 Speaker 2: close to there, she got this call saying we're not 632 00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:08,200 Speaker 2: going to be able to do the lesson because of 633 00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:10,440 Speaker 2: the weather and she gave evidence that this had happened 634 00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:13,440 Speaker 2: a number of times, or that at least she had 635 00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:16,040 Speaker 2: said a number of times to the flying school, it's 636 00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:17,760 Speaker 2: quite a long drive for me. I know you can't 637 00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:19,719 Speaker 2: predict the weather, but if you think about an hour out, 638 00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:21,800 Speaker 2: there's going to be a problem, could you please let 639 00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:22,040 Speaker 2: me know. 640 00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:24,960 Speaker 5: Yeah, And that didn't happen on this occasion, was her evidence. 641 00:29:25,160 --> 00:29:27,320 Speaker 5: She recalled that they were about ten minutes away when 642 00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:29,160 Speaker 5: she got the call to say, and this is after 643 00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:33,280 Speaker 5: they'd already changed the time that they would need to 644 00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:35,200 Speaker 5: cancel because of the weather. So she said, yes, you 645 00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:38,200 Speaker 5: was quite frustrated at that time, and she explained that 646 00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:40,560 Speaker 5: they didn't actually stop, they just turned around and headed 647 00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:41,120 Speaker 5: on back home. 648 00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:44,120 Speaker 2: As part of her son's evidence that's also been mentioned 649 00:29:44,160 --> 00:29:47,320 Speaker 2: to her in some of her cross examination, she says 650 00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:50,160 Speaker 2: that the morning that Sunday morning, when he said she 651 00:29:50,320 --> 00:29:52,280 Speaker 2: seems to be having a coffee at the table, that 652 00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:55,560 Speaker 2: she was actually having a herbal tea. And she also 653 00:29:55,760 --> 00:29:58,880 Speaker 2: has given evidence around the sort of the stops for 654 00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:02,920 Speaker 2: them stopping on the way back from this particular flying lesson. 655 00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:05,240 Speaker 2: The son's given evidence that they stopped for a coffee 656 00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:07,400 Speaker 2: and to get a few other things from a donut van, 657 00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:10,320 Speaker 2: and she says that she agrees with his evidence that 658 00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:12,760 Speaker 2: she didn't stop to go to the toilet, but that 659 00:30:12,840 --> 00:30:15,600 Speaker 2: she can't really remember exactly what happened at that other 660 00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:19,200 Speaker 2: stop on the way back. Now, in terms of what 661 00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:22,800 Speaker 2: she's been taken to from the parts of other people's 662 00:30:22,840 --> 00:30:25,520 Speaker 2: evidence quite a few times, she's also had the evidence 663 00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:28,560 Speaker 2: of Katrina Cripps, a child protection worker, mentioned to her, 664 00:30:29,080 --> 00:30:32,440 Speaker 2: and that includes things about when she says she became ill. Now, 665 00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:34,040 Speaker 2: this has been touched on a number of times as 666 00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:37,560 Speaker 2: to whether Aaron Patterson was ill on the Saturday night 667 00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:40,920 Speaker 2: or not and when that exactly happened. She was questioned 668 00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:43,360 Speaker 2: quite a bit about that in regards to taking her 669 00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:44,200 Speaker 2: son's friend home. 670 00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:48,160 Speaker 5: Yeah, and the essence of that questioning was around, were 671 00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:53,000 Speaker 5: you feigning your symptoms essentially to make it look worse 672 00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:56,200 Speaker 5: than it really was. Did you appear sick? What time 673 00:30:56,240 --> 00:30:59,600 Speaker 5: did you begin having diarrhea? How frequent was it? When 674 00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:02,160 Speaker 5: did its art? This witness remembered it was this time. 675 00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:05,440 Speaker 5: Another witness member it was another time. But Aaron Patterson 676 00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:08,960 Speaker 5: was really firm in her response as to when those 677 00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:12,640 Speaker 5: symptoms started. She maintained that it was later in that Saturday, 678 00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:15,480 Speaker 5: but when she had to drop her son's friend home, 679 00:31:15,560 --> 00:31:18,080 Speaker 5: she felt that she was okay to drive, and that 680 00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:21,720 Speaker 5: was again raised about the drive to the the air 681 00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:24,200 Speaker 5: school as well, and at what point did she sort 682 00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:27,720 Speaker 5: of get worse or better and things like that. But yeah, 683 00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:30,840 Speaker 5: we heard from a number of other witnesses during this 684 00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:35,400 Speaker 5: trial what their memories were, and Aaron Patterson challenged a 685 00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:36,200 Speaker 5: few of those today. 686 00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:40,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, and she has again really disputed that she ever 687 00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:42,320 Speaker 2: was pretending to be ill. 688 00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:45,000 Speaker 6: She says she absolutely she was sick. 689 00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:47,360 Speaker 2: And when it's been put to her that she was 690 00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:51,200 Speaker 2: showing symptoms or telling people about symptoms, particularly a number 691 00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:54,600 Speaker 2: of different people speaking about them, that she was speaking 692 00:31:54,600 --> 00:31:56,840 Speaker 2: about them because she didn't want it to look suspicious 693 00:31:57,280 --> 00:32:00,720 Speaker 2: that she maybe wasn't as ill as other guests, and 694 00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:02,440 Speaker 2: she says that's absolutely not the case. 695 00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:04,640 Speaker 5: She was shaking her head back and forth side to 696 00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:09,000 Speaker 5: side when she was saying no, incorrect, that's not true 697 00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:11,959 Speaker 5: to those responses. She had a whole sort of body 698 00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:15,000 Speaker 5: language reaction to those, as she maintained, No, no, no, 699 00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:17,000 Speaker 5: I was not feigning any. 700 00:32:16,840 --> 00:32:17,600 Speaker 3: Symptoms at all. 701 00:32:17,680 --> 00:32:19,520 Speaker 5: This is how I was feeling and this is why 702 00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:21,560 Speaker 5: I did what I did, as in go to the 703 00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:24,880 Speaker 5: hospital and get treatment and end up in Melbourne under observation. 704 00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:27,000 Speaker 6: Let's hear a little bit more of the evidence. 705 00:32:27,040 --> 00:32:29,440 Speaker 2: This is where Aaron Patterson is speaking with the Crown 706 00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:34,600 Speaker 2: Prosecutor Nannette Rodgers, specifically about Katrina Cripps, the child protection 707 00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:38,440 Speaker 2: worker's evidence and what she remembers compared to what Katrina 708 00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:41,680 Speaker 2: Cripps told the court regarding when she first began to 709 00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:44,800 Speaker 2: feel sick. She says that was on the Saturday night, 710 00:32:44,840 --> 00:32:47,240 Speaker 2: but after she had taken the son's friend home. 711 00:32:47,640 --> 00:32:49,200 Speaker 1: What is your evidence about that? 712 00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:52,120 Speaker 7: My evidence is that I may have said that, but 713 00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:56,320 Speaker 7: if I did, I was getting confused with the next day. 714 00:32:56,600 --> 00:32:58,920 Speaker 1: So you might have told it to Ms Crips. I 715 00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:01,360 Speaker 1: may have about the sat Today night. I may have, 716 00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:03,800 Speaker 1: or you might have been referring to how you were 717 00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:06,280 Speaker 1: feeling on the Sunday. Is that your evidence. 718 00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:08,680 Speaker 7: I don't know if I said it or not, but 719 00:33:08,760 --> 00:33:11,000 Speaker 7: I may have, and I may have been confused with 720 00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:13,560 Speaker 7: how I felt on Sunday. I've had a lot of 721 00:33:13,560 --> 00:33:16,480 Speaker 7: people ask me the same questions over and over, and 722 00:33:16,520 --> 00:33:18,280 Speaker 7: I'd felt unwell and i felt. 723 00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:20,080 Speaker 4: Anxious, and I was feeling confused and stressed. 724 00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:23,320 Speaker 7: I was doing my best to answer everyone's questions, but 725 00:33:24,080 --> 00:33:26,480 Speaker 7: I may have got things wrong a little bit along 726 00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:26,840 Speaker 7: the way. 727 00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:31,320 Speaker 2: Now, Aaron Patterson, when she was asked about wanting it 728 00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:33,680 Speaker 2: to appear that she was sick, which she disputes, she 729 00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:35,560 Speaker 2: said she was actually sick. 730 00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:37,720 Speaker 6: And whether she was seriously unwell. 731 00:33:37,760 --> 00:33:40,360 Speaker 2: The words that she used when being questioned by the 732 00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:44,360 Speaker 2: prosecutor was that she thinks seriously unwell is subjective, and 733 00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:46,000 Speaker 2: that she said what she said. 734 00:33:46,120 --> 00:33:49,640 Speaker 5: Yeah, And she was really at pains to explain that 735 00:33:50,080 --> 00:33:52,480 Speaker 5: there was a lot of questions coming a lot of 736 00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:54,720 Speaker 5: people that she'd spoken to on lots of dates and 737 00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:57,840 Speaker 5: times and alike, and she was really firm in a 738 00:33:57,840 --> 00:33:59,320 Speaker 5: lot of her answers. But it was at this point 739 00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:01,480 Speaker 5: that she was like, oh, yes, I'm doing my best 740 00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:04,400 Speaker 5: to answer everybody's questions. I'm doing my best to sort 741 00:34:04,440 --> 00:34:09,799 Speaker 5: of understand what you're wanting from me as the Crown prosecutor. 742 00:34:09,880 --> 00:34:13,200 Speaker 5: But then the questioning really went a little bit further 743 00:34:13,239 --> 00:34:17,360 Speaker 5: to Okay, well, if you were unwell, why were you unwell? 744 00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:19,479 Speaker 5: Were you pretending to be more unwell? And that question 745 00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:22,520 Speaker 5: you just said Penny, what does seriously unwell really mean? 746 00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:26,520 Speaker 2: And it was also put to the accused woman that, 747 00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:29,880 Speaker 2: in the words of Nannette Rodgers, that she didn't consume 748 00:34:30,040 --> 00:34:32,840 Speaker 2: even a minute amount of death cat mushrooms at the lunch. 749 00:34:32,880 --> 00:34:35,640 Speaker 6: Now, Aaron Patterson said, I have no idea if. 750 00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:38,120 Speaker 2: I did or not, but she disputed that at any 751 00:34:38,160 --> 00:34:40,680 Speaker 2: point she'd been trying to make it appear that she 752 00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:43,040 Speaker 2: was sick. It was also mentioned to her, which she 753 00:34:43,160 --> 00:34:46,600 Speaker 2: doesn't dispute, that her liver function tests were normal, Yes, 754 00:34:46,640 --> 00:34:48,399 Speaker 2: And she was spoken to about a number of other 755 00:34:48,680 --> 00:34:51,120 Speaker 2: results that she had through this medical journey of a 756 00:34:51,160 --> 00:34:53,160 Speaker 2: few days in the hospital system. Yeah. 757 00:34:53,200 --> 00:34:55,839 Speaker 5: One of the last topics that we heard for this 758 00:34:55,920 --> 00:35:00,239 Speaker 5: part of Aaron Patterson's evidence was the leftovers and how 759 00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:03,279 Speaker 5: they got where and why they were there. And we 760 00:35:03,360 --> 00:35:06,319 Speaker 5: know from another witness and Aaron Patterson was taken through 761 00:35:06,360 --> 00:35:08,200 Speaker 5: this and it was put to her as part of 762 00:35:08,239 --> 00:35:11,840 Speaker 5: her examination as well that one of the other police 763 00:35:11,880 --> 00:35:14,560 Speaker 5: officers who had attended a property while speaking to her 764 00:35:14,560 --> 00:35:16,720 Speaker 5: on the phone when she was in hospital, had found 765 00:35:16,920 --> 00:35:20,480 Speaker 5: leftovers of the lunch in and outdoor bin. And Aaron 766 00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:24,279 Speaker 5: Patterson was asked what was in those leftovers and how 767 00:35:24,360 --> 00:35:27,600 Speaker 5: much was there and what was it from? And this 768 00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:30,200 Speaker 5: is a point in time where she was also asked 769 00:35:30,560 --> 00:35:33,200 Speaker 5: about the beef Wellingtons that she made. She told the 770 00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:35,000 Speaker 5: jury that she made six, and it was at this 771 00:35:35,040 --> 00:35:38,799 Speaker 5: point where His Honor actually interrupted the evidence and said, well, 772 00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:42,279 Speaker 5: what happened to the six Why did you make a 773 00:35:42,360 --> 00:35:43,520 Speaker 5: sixth beef Wellington? 774 00:35:43,719 --> 00:35:44,960 Speaker 3: Was that for Simon Patterson? 775 00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:47,560 Speaker 5: And she said no, it was just made as a spare, 776 00:35:47,960 --> 00:35:49,839 Speaker 5: And then the questioning turned back to okay, well what 777 00:35:49,880 --> 00:35:50,399 Speaker 5: was in the bin? 778 00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:53,120 Speaker 3: Who'se beef Wellington was it? And how much penny? 779 00:35:53,560 --> 00:35:56,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, And in that clarification with Justice Biel, he was 780 00:35:56,880 --> 00:36:00,560 Speaker 2: really asking when it was put to her by the prosecutor, 781 00:36:00,719 --> 00:36:04,000 Speaker 2: was that sixth Wellington specifically for Simon Patterson? Should he 782 00:36:04,040 --> 00:36:06,479 Speaker 2: have suddenly arrived at the lunch that he had said 783 00:36:06,560 --> 00:36:09,239 Speaker 2: previously he wasn't going to be coming to. And she 784 00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:11,440 Speaker 2: said no, no, it was just an extra one that 785 00:36:11,480 --> 00:36:12,440 Speaker 2: she'd made. 786 00:36:12,600 --> 00:36:14,800 Speaker 6: But she noted through. 787 00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:17,040 Speaker 2: Her evidence as well, this has come up a number 788 00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:21,120 Speaker 2: of times whether she had made a specifically a beef 789 00:36:21,160 --> 00:36:23,960 Speaker 2: Wellington for Simon Patterson, and she's been asked by the 790 00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:27,800 Speaker 2: prosecutor whether that intentionally contained deathcap mushrooms and that she 791 00:36:27,840 --> 00:36:29,600 Speaker 2: would have given that to him if he arrived. And 792 00:36:29,600 --> 00:36:32,440 Speaker 2: she's said through her evidence, no, she wouldn't have intentionally 793 00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:35,239 Speaker 2: given him deathcap mushrooms, but that if he'd come to 794 00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:37,719 Speaker 2: the lunch, she would have given him a beef Wellington. 795 00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:40,640 Speaker 2: As to what was left in the bin, she described 796 00:36:40,640 --> 00:36:43,920 Speaker 2: it as being part of a beef Wellington, and that 797 00:36:44,239 --> 00:36:48,240 Speaker 2: she says the pastries and the mushrooms that she'd taken 798 00:36:48,280 --> 00:36:50,560 Speaker 2: off the kid's food and she was asked a bit 799 00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:52,799 Speaker 2: about well, where the meat from that had gone, and 800 00:36:52,840 --> 00:36:54,719 Speaker 2: she said, that went into my kid's stomachs. 801 00:36:54,880 --> 00:36:55,719 Speaker 6: That's right now. 802 00:36:55,719 --> 00:36:58,239 Speaker 2: Aaron Patterson is still being cross examined. Will bring you 803 00:36:58,280 --> 00:37:00,399 Speaker 2: more evidence from the trial as the jury he here's 804 00:37:00,440 --> 00:37:00,919 Speaker 2: it soon. 805 00:37:02,520 --> 00:37:04,920 Speaker 6: Thank you for listening to this episode of Say Grace. 806 00:37:05,080 --> 00:37:07,000 Speaker 2: Please press the follow button in your app to get 807 00:37:07,040 --> 00:37:09,359 Speaker 2: our next episodes as soon as we publish. 808 00:37:09,560 --> 00:37:11,760 Speaker 5: For more reporting on the case, check out the Age 809 00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:13,760 Speaker 5: and nine News in your browser or app store. 810 00:37:13,880 --> 00:37:16,160 Speaker 2: We'd like to acknowledge the traditional owners of the land 811 00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:19,080 Speaker 2: that this podcast was reported on and wherever you're listening 812 00:37:19,160 --> 00:37:19,640 Speaker 2: to it now. 813 00:37:20,000 --> 00:37:22,960 Speaker 6: Say Grace is created and hosted by me Penelope Leash, 814 00:37:23,160 --> 00:37:27,000 Speaker 6: and me Erin Percon. This podcast is produced by Genevieve Rule.