WEBVTT - What really happened to Epstein victim Virginia Giuffre 0:00:04.240 --> 0:00:07.760 Virginia Giuffre was fearless in taking down some of the 0:00:07.760 --> 0:00:12.560 world's most powerful people as Jeffrey Epstein's most prominent victim. 0:00:12.760 --> 0:00:16.680 She helped expose his crimes and hold his friends to account, 0:00:16.880 --> 0:00:21.400 including the man formerly known as Prince Andrew. But despite 0:00:21.400 --> 0:00:25.040 her heroic battle in the most notorious sex trafficking case 0:00:25.040 --> 0:00:28.440 of the 21st century, few know about one of her 0:00:28.440 --> 0:00:32.040 toughest fights. It was one she fought privately at home 0:00:32.040 --> 0:00:36.360 in Australia. I'm Samantha Selinger Morris, and you're listening to 0:00:36.360 --> 0:00:40.400 Morning Edition. From The Age and The Sydney Morning Herald today, 0:00:40.440 --> 0:00:44.480 Good Weekend magazine's senior writer Melissa Fyfe and a today 0:00:44.479 --> 0:00:49.400 reporter Carla Hildebrandt on their four part investigative podcast Virginia. 0:00:50.520 --> 0:00:54.360 And just a warning. This episode contains mentions of suicide, 0:00:54.360 --> 0:00:58.800 domestic violence, and other content that may be distressing to listeners. 0:00:59.830 --> 0:01:02.190 Mel and Carla, welcome to the podcast. 0:01:02.230 --> 0:01:03.870 Hi, Sam. Hi, Sam. 0:01:04.110 --> 0:01:06.869 I'm so looking forward to speaking to you because many people, 0:01:06.870 --> 0:01:09.710 when they think of the late Virginia Giuffre, they think 0:01:09.709 --> 0:01:12.470 of that infamous picture of her about the age of 0:01:12.470 --> 0:01:15.910 17 with Prince Andrew. He's got his arm around her waist. 0:01:16.230 --> 0:01:18.350 That's what comes to mind for many. The two were 0:01:18.350 --> 0:01:22.030 introduced by Jeffrey Epstein, but Mel, is that what initially 0:01:22.030 --> 0:01:24.310 drew you to her story or was it something else? 0:01:24.590 --> 0:01:28.630 Actually, the thing that I was first attracted to was 0:01:28.630 --> 0:01:31.509 the fact that there had been this battle happening over 0:01:31.510 --> 0:01:34.870 her estate and that had been going through the WA 0:01:34.910 --> 0:01:39.710 Supreme Court. And I thought that was really interesting. And 0:01:39.750 --> 0:01:42.070 one of our editors said, well, why don't you look 0:01:42.069 --> 0:01:46.470 into her Australian life? Because people don't realize that Virginia 0:01:46.510 --> 0:01:49.790 lived half of her life in Australia after marrying an 0:01:49.790 --> 0:01:53.390 Australian man. So when I started to look into it, 0:01:53.390 --> 0:01:56.190 that was the basis. But then I kind of realized 0:01:56.190 --> 0:02:01.390 very quickly that Virginia had been the subject of a 0:02:01.510 --> 0:02:06.309 violent restraining order in Perth, and she had had her 0:02:06.310 --> 0:02:10.389 two children taken away. And that is not on you know, 0:02:10.430 --> 0:02:12.710 it's not unheard of for a mother to have her 0:02:12.710 --> 0:02:15.910 children taken away. But it's quite unusual. And I was thinking, well, 0:02:15.910 --> 0:02:19.389 what are those circumstances? How did it get to that? 0:02:19.630 --> 0:02:21.750 And then I knew that I would need some help 0:02:21.750 --> 0:02:25.190 with this. So I reached out to Carla, who's a 0:02:25.230 --> 0:02:29.030 fantastic reporter at WA today, and Carla's been doing a 0:02:29.030 --> 0:02:31.030 lot of the on the ground reporting over there. 0:02:31.150 --> 0:02:33.669 And Carla, you know, as you've said in the feature 0:02:33.669 --> 0:02:35.830 that you wrote with Melissa and also in the podcast 0:02:35.830 --> 0:02:38.430 that you both have made the story, it's not about 0:02:38.430 --> 0:02:41.470 Jeffrey Epstein or the Epstein files, but a battle that 0:02:41.470 --> 0:02:45.550 Virginia was fighting in private for much of her life. So, Carla, 0:02:45.550 --> 0:02:46.630 tell us a bit about that. 0:02:47.110 --> 0:02:51.430 Yeah. So Virginia credits one man with her escape from Epstein, 0:02:51.430 --> 0:02:58.340 and that's Robbie Jeffrey. She met Robbie in Thailand, and 0:02:58.340 --> 0:03:02.139 that's when she had just left Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell. 0:03:02.380 --> 0:03:05.299 So she goes to Thailand, and when she's there, she 0:03:05.300 --> 0:03:08.900 meets Robbie, who's doing a martial arts course at the time. 0:03:09.100 --> 0:03:13.620 And within ten days they are married. And he's, you know, 0:03:13.780 --> 0:03:16.860 he's seen as the savior, the person who saved her 0:03:16.860 --> 0:03:19.740 from that horrible life with Epstein. 0:03:22.100 --> 0:03:26.180 I met this amazing person. And long story short, we 0:03:26.180 --> 0:03:29.940 got married in a Buddhist temple in Chiang Mai, and 0:03:29.940 --> 0:03:34.340 he took me home to move to Australia, where Australia 0:03:34.380 --> 0:03:35.340 became my home. 0:03:36.500 --> 0:03:39.340 So she moves back to Australia with him. And so 0:03:39.340 --> 0:03:41.660 what Mel and I were looking into was, were the 0:03:41.660 --> 0:03:45.980 instances of domestic violence throughout their relationship. So our earliest 0:03:45.980 --> 0:03:50.700 understanding of domestic abuse is around 2010. And then later 0:03:50.700 --> 0:03:53.860 on we found evidence that she was assaulted. We actually 0:03:53.900 --> 0:03:56.500 found the documents that came up in the Epstein files 0:03:56.500 --> 0:04:00.900 of all places in 2015 in Colorado. Then we end 0:04:00.940 --> 0:04:03.540 up examining the last four months of her life after 0:04:03.540 --> 0:04:05.740 another alleged assault in Perth. 0:04:05.940 --> 0:04:07.540 Well, Mel, this is what I wanted to go to 0:04:07.540 --> 0:04:10.140 you to ask because you both have chosen to investigate, 0:04:10.140 --> 0:04:14.300 in particular, these last four months of Virginia's life. Virginia, 0:04:14.340 --> 0:04:16.820 as many of us know, tragically took her own life 0:04:16.820 --> 0:04:20.620 in April last year. So why? Why are those months 0:04:20.620 --> 0:04:22.100 of her life so important? 0:04:22.339 --> 0:04:25.419 I think what we see with Virginia's last four months 0:04:25.779 --> 0:04:30.020 is a woman that falls outside the legal systems and 0:04:30.060 --> 0:04:37.180 also other systems. Really, after this alleged incident in January 0:04:37.180 --> 0:04:42.820 the 9th, 2025, where both she and Robbie allege violence. 0:04:43.339 --> 0:04:47.539 She basically is hotel hopping and in fear of him, 0:04:47.540 --> 0:04:53.010 she says. And the police investigate, but they don't press 0:04:53.010 --> 0:04:56.050 any charges, despite the fact that. And we've published these 0:04:56.050 --> 0:04:58.930 in the good weekend. Peace. She took many photos of 0:04:58.930 --> 0:05:02.210 her injuries at the time, and part of our investigation 0:05:02.210 --> 0:05:07.810 was trying to understand why that was why, why nothing 0:05:08.170 --> 0:05:13.890 eventuated from that particular alleged assault. But the second thing, 0:05:13.890 --> 0:05:16.210 which was really interesting, going back to this question of 0:05:16.210 --> 0:05:21.690 why Virginia lost her children, is that after this incident 0:05:21.690 --> 0:05:26.770 in January, where Robbie Giuffre was given a 72 hour 0:05:26.770 --> 0:05:29.289 police restraining order, so he was the one that was 0:05:29.490 --> 0:05:33.930 told to go away from Virginia as soon as that expired. Within, 0:05:34.089 --> 0:05:36.370 you know, half a day, we think he was the 0:05:36.370 --> 0:05:39.330 one that went up to the Perth Magistrates Court and 0:05:39.330 --> 0:05:43.729 successfully applied for a temporary restraining order against Virginia, which 0:05:43.730 --> 0:05:47.330 was although interim, it was six months. And it named 0:05:47.330 --> 0:05:50.050 two of her youngest children as well as him. So 0:05:50.050 --> 0:05:53.770 she couldn't go home. She couldn't get any of her possessions. 0:05:53.770 --> 0:05:55.810 And then she couldn't at all, you know, talk to 0:05:55.810 --> 0:05:59.969 her children and contact Robbie. And that's a very serious thing. And, 0:06:00.010 --> 0:06:02.730 you know, of course, we know that these things are 0:06:02.730 --> 0:06:05.089 put in place for a good reason. There's a whole 0:06:05.089 --> 0:06:09.210 system in Australia and not just WA, but around Australia, 0:06:09.450 --> 0:06:13.969 where these interim orders are available to people who are 0:06:14.370 --> 0:06:18.010 really in emergency situations and they feel like they are 0:06:18.010 --> 0:06:21.610 unsafe and they need to be protected from a potentially 0:06:21.610 --> 0:06:25.050 violent partner. And part of the issue here that we 0:06:25.050 --> 0:06:28.570 discovered with Virginia was that the bar is set very 0:06:28.570 --> 0:06:31.490 low for these orders. You know, the evidence that you 0:06:31.490 --> 0:06:35.409 need is not like a normal court proceeding. And also 0:06:35.650 --> 0:06:38.890 you can get them held ex parte, which means that 0:06:39.210 --> 0:06:42.370 the other person doesn't even know or needs to be 0:06:42.370 --> 0:06:47.010 notified or attend that court hearing. And so they can 0:06:47.010 --> 0:06:50.600 be done very quickly and with a lower level of evidence. 0:06:50.600 --> 0:06:53.520 And now we spoke to many domestic violence experts who 0:06:53.839 --> 0:06:56.320 said that this is really good. This system is is 0:06:56.360 --> 0:07:00.600 good because women in particular, and they mostly are women 0:07:00.600 --> 0:07:05.440 need it. However, what these experts also said was that 0:07:05.440 --> 0:07:10.080 we are seeing rising rates of a thing that's called misidentification, 0:07:10.080 --> 0:07:15.000 which is where the victim gets misidentified as the perpetrator. Now, 0:07:15.000 --> 0:07:18.720 obviously in this situation, Robbie had every right to go 0:07:18.840 --> 0:07:23.880 to the court if he was felt in fear of Virginia. However, 0:07:23.880 --> 0:07:27.400 it did raise questions about what are the kind of 0:07:27.400 --> 0:07:31.400 things that magistrates need to look for when people are 0:07:31.400 --> 0:07:36.480 applying for these orders. And we've basically found that that 0:07:36.480 --> 0:07:39.680 was a real issue and that has a cascading effect. 0:07:39.840 --> 0:07:43.320 So once you're got that order against you and you're 0:07:43.320 --> 0:07:46.800 treated as the perpetrator, anything that you do from there 0:07:46.840 --> 0:07:50.040 on in life is made very difficult. And we saw 0:07:50.040 --> 0:07:52.840 that with Virginia in the last four months. She became 0:07:52.840 --> 0:07:56.360 very isolated, and there was very little she could do 0:07:56.600 --> 0:07:59.280 about that, because when she objected to the order, it 0:07:59.280 --> 0:08:02.000 was going to take her six months to actually come 0:08:02.000 --> 0:08:05.640 back into the court to hear that objection. And over 0:08:05.640 --> 0:08:09.680 these four months, we were able to piece together what 0:08:09.680 --> 0:08:16.960 she was doing through access to diaries, photos, text messages 0:08:17.400 --> 0:08:21.200 and a lot of exclusive access to her US based family. 0:08:21.520 --> 0:08:24.040 All of these things meant that we could reveal what 0:08:24.080 --> 0:08:27.360 really happened to Virginia in those last four months, before 0:08:27.600 --> 0:08:31.480 she sadly took her life on the 25th of April 2025. 0:08:35.720 --> 0:08:36.600 We'll be right back. 0:08:39.559 --> 0:08:43.079 Virginia Giuffre helped vanquish a prince and a millionaire. 0:08:43.440 --> 0:08:45.989 And I won't stop fighting. I will never be silenced. 0:08:46.550 --> 0:08:49.429 But one of her toughest battles was a very private one. 0:08:50.110 --> 0:08:52.550 It was the worst thing that could have happened to her. 0:08:52.590 --> 0:08:55.670 Her children were her life. 0:08:56.830 --> 0:09:00.630 Virginia, a podcast from the newsrooms of the age, the 0:09:00.630 --> 0:09:04.070 Sydney Morning Herald and WA today, out now. 0:09:08.309 --> 0:09:10.750 And so Carla and Mel, we've spoken about how there 0:09:10.750 --> 0:09:14.830 was domestic abuse that had occurred between Virginia Giuffre and 0:09:14.830 --> 0:09:17.590 her then husband, Robby Giuffre, in the lead up to 0:09:17.590 --> 0:09:21.150 her death. But let's just zero in on this critical moment. 0:09:21.150 --> 0:09:25.469 When a magistrate issued an interim restraining order against Virginia, 0:09:25.790 --> 0:09:28.270 which then prevented her from seeing two of her children. 0:09:28.670 --> 0:09:31.150 Is it the case that the magistrate and the police 0:09:31.150 --> 0:09:35.430 involved didn't know, or perhaps weren't told, that years earlier, 0:09:35.429 --> 0:09:38.670 Robby had been actually arrested for assaulting Virginia back in 0:09:38.670 --> 0:09:42.829 the US? And so Carla and Mel, we've spoken about 0:09:42.830 --> 0:09:46.100 how there was domestic abuse that had occurred between Virginia 0:09:46.100 --> 0:09:49.220 Giuffre and her then husband, Robby Giuffre, in the lead 0:09:49.260 --> 0:09:51.860 up to her death. But let's just zero in on 0:09:51.860 --> 0:09:55.500 this critical moment. When a magistrate issued an interim restraining 0:09:55.500 --> 0:09:58.700 order against Virginia, which prevented her from seeing two of 0:09:58.700 --> 0:10:01.580 her children. Is it the case that the magistrate and 0:10:01.580 --> 0:10:04.500 the police who were involved in this didn't know or 0:10:04.540 --> 0:10:08.380 weren't told that years earlier, Robby had been actually arrested 0:10:08.380 --> 0:10:10.580 for assaulting Virginia back in the US? 0:10:10.900 --> 0:10:13.780 Yeah. So he had been charged, but he had been 0:10:13.780 --> 0:10:19.220 charged in 2015 in Colorado. So we're not sure about 0:10:19.260 --> 0:10:23.380 the information sharing between Colorado and Australia. 0:10:23.500 --> 0:10:26.420 And the other complicating factor, Carla, of course, was that 0:10:26.420 --> 0:10:30.459 Virginia had suppressed that report herself. You know, when back 0:10:30.460 --> 0:10:32.860 in the day when she wanted to keep all of 0:10:32.860 --> 0:10:35.660 the secrets of her marriage, she had suppressed the report. 0:10:35.660 --> 0:10:38.500 So we're not sure whether even if the Australian police 0:10:38.500 --> 0:10:41.340 were trying to find it, whether they would have found it. 0:10:41.340 --> 0:10:43.100 And do we know why she was trying to keep 0:10:43.100 --> 0:10:44.540 the secrets about her marriage? 0:10:44.580 --> 0:10:47.900 We think maybe so they could enter and leave the US. 0:10:47.900 --> 0:10:50.179 But also it could have been to avoid. We thought 0:10:50.179 --> 0:10:51.500 it might have been, could have, could have been to 0:10:51.540 --> 0:10:53.340 avoid media attention as well. 0:10:53.380 --> 0:10:56.339 Yeah, definitely. She wanted to avoid media attention because she 0:10:56.340 --> 0:11:00.340 was gearing up in this battle against Epstein, Ghislaine Maxwell, 0:11:00.340 --> 0:11:02.860 and she wanted to have no other distractions. I think 0:11:02.860 --> 0:11:05.660 she didn't want the media to be reporting on this 0:11:05.660 --> 0:11:08.260 part of her life that she didn't really want to 0:11:08.260 --> 0:11:10.699 have in the public, and she also wanted to protect 0:11:10.700 --> 0:11:12.060 her children, I think. 0:11:12.100 --> 0:11:14.620 And just a note here that Robbie Giuffre did issue 0:11:14.620 --> 0:11:16.700 a statement through his lawyer. So just tell us, what 0:11:16.700 --> 0:11:17.300 did he say? 0:11:17.740 --> 0:11:21.020 Basically, we put every allegation in the podcast and in 0:11:21.020 --> 0:11:24.900 the Good Weekend piece to Robbie and through his lawyers, 0:11:25.140 --> 0:11:30.460 he responded that Virginia had suffered significant mental health issues 0:11:30.620 --> 0:11:35.220 and an overreliance on prescription medication due to the pressure 0:11:35.220 --> 0:11:38.140 of being in the public eye. And he said, quote, 0:11:38.179 --> 0:11:41.850 this may have led to Virginia's change of perspective. He 0:11:41.850 --> 0:11:44.650 also had what we interpreted as a bit of a 0:11:44.690 --> 0:11:48.410 go at Virginia's US family, and he said that he 0:11:48.410 --> 0:11:52.890 was limited in responding to, quote, various unfounded allegations for 0:11:52.890 --> 0:11:56.770 legal reasons, because there is the ongoing estate case and 0:11:56.809 --> 0:11:59.170 that he and the children are just wanted to remember 0:11:59.170 --> 0:12:01.489 Virginia as a loving wife and mother. 0:12:02.090 --> 0:12:04.650 And Mel, I wanted to ask you something further. I mean, 0:12:04.730 --> 0:12:07.449 what does it say to you that someone, as public 0:12:07.450 --> 0:12:10.810 and high profile, as wealthy as Virginia, could be failed 0:12:10.809 --> 0:12:12.410 by so many of our systems? 0:12:13.250 --> 0:12:15.809 Well, the thing about the issue that we were talking 0:12:15.809 --> 0:12:20.770 about before, which is misidentification and also perhaps being on 0:12:20.770 --> 0:12:25.770 the wrong end of a police investigation, particularly misidentification, we 0:12:25.770 --> 0:12:32.370 know affects indigenous women particularly, and also women who come 0:12:32.370 --> 0:12:36.610 from more diverse backgrounds. So I think it really says 0:12:36.610 --> 0:12:41.170 something that someone like Virginia, who is a white woman. 0:12:41.170 --> 0:12:44.090 And also at the time, you have to remember Sam. 0:12:44.090 --> 0:12:49.100 She was very wealthy. Her estate is worth around 30 0:12:49.100 --> 0:12:53.010 million AUD. So she did not lack the funds for 0:12:53.010 --> 0:12:57.130 the fight. But still she found herself outside the system. 0:12:57.130 --> 0:13:00.050 So I think that speaks to the problems, the more 0:13:00.050 --> 0:13:02.050 systemic problems that we're looking at here. 0:13:02.330 --> 0:13:04.329 And, Carla, I just wanted to go to you because 0:13:04.330 --> 0:13:08.089 you've been interviewing Virginia's family for months. They've called for 0:13:08.090 --> 0:13:12.850 a police review, a public inquest, among other interventions. So 0:13:12.890 --> 0:13:15.850 what are they hoping comes from these investigations? Should they 0:13:15.850 --> 0:13:16.490 take place? 0:13:16.850 --> 0:13:20.650 So in June, the WA police announced an internal review 0:13:20.650 --> 0:13:24.449 into their dealings with Virginia. Um so we had written 0:13:24.450 --> 0:13:28.610 to them. What month was that. I don't know, earlier 0:13:28.610 --> 0:13:31.010 this year we had written to them asking for an 0:13:31.010 --> 0:13:35.050 internal investigation. Cole Blanche, the commissioner, got back to us 0:13:35.050 --> 0:13:37.760 and said, you put it to the Ombudsman. So then 0:13:37.760 --> 0:13:40.720 we didn't hear back. And then Virginia's family wrote to them, 0:13:40.720 --> 0:13:43.960 and then they didn't hear back. But then we heard 0:13:43.960 --> 0:13:46.640 some chitter chatter that there was going to be, you know, 0:13:46.679 --> 0:13:48.840 something was going to happen. And then in Parliament, he 0:13:48.840 --> 0:13:52.280 did confirm that they were doing this internal investigation. So 0:13:52.280 --> 0:13:55.720 they're going to review their own interactions with Virginia. But 0:13:55.720 --> 0:13:59.440 that doesn't cover her interactions in the courts or with 0:13:59.440 --> 0:14:02.880 other agencies, with her health providers, anything like that. So 0:14:03.000 --> 0:14:07.440 the families also requesting for an inquest into her death, 0:14:07.480 --> 0:14:09.840 a public inquest. So, you know, the inquest system in 0:14:09.840 --> 0:14:12.440 WA is different to other states as well. And there's 0:14:12.440 --> 0:14:17.559 not very many public inquests, especially into suicide. So that's 0:14:17.559 --> 0:14:20.040 a public inquest will be able to see exactly who 0:14:20.080 --> 0:14:23.720 interacted with her and what failings or what things could 0:14:23.720 --> 0:14:26.720 be changed for future victims. So that's what her family 0:14:26.760 --> 0:14:27.640 is calling for. 0:14:27.680 --> 0:14:31.240 We're also reporting today that the WA Ombudsman is going 0:14:31.240 --> 0:14:36.120 to be reviewing the police's interactions with Virginia as well. 0:14:36.120 --> 0:14:38.040 So that's a significant development. 0:14:38.040 --> 0:14:39.880 And a question for the both of you. I mean, 0:14:39.920 --> 0:14:42.160 what are you hoping that people will take away from 0:14:42.160 --> 0:14:44.840 both your podcast and the investigation as a whole? 0:14:45.040 --> 0:14:48.160 So I think one of the things that we, you know, 0:14:48.200 --> 0:14:50.640 we hope people take away, we were both really struck 0:14:50.640 --> 0:14:56.120 by Virginia's notes on domestic violence, particularly controlling behavior and 0:14:56.120 --> 0:15:01.680 those coercive control tendencies like controlling behavior, jealousy. She wrote 0:15:01.680 --> 0:15:06.040 so articulately and just incredible. Like she just put it 0:15:06.040 --> 0:15:10.880 so concisely about her experience into these notes, almost like 0:15:10.880 --> 0:15:15.400 she was writing to in the future, like advocate on 0:15:15.400 --> 0:15:17.920 this issue. Like it felt like she was writing like, 0:15:18.400 --> 0:15:23.200 you know, controlling behavior is abuse. Recognize warning signs. It 0:15:23.200 --> 0:15:25.520 was these things like that. She would be either telling 0:15:25.520 --> 0:15:28.040 someone else or, you know, talking about in the future. 0:15:28.040 --> 0:15:29.960 So it was just incredible. 0:15:30.480 --> 0:15:34.830 Yeah. She said we must challenge traditional notions that confuse 0:15:34.830 --> 0:15:39.230 love with control, and also that DV does not discriminate. 0:15:39.230 --> 0:15:41.550 And just to explain the notes, they were sort of 0:15:41.590 --> 0:15:44.030 diary notes, sort of like things that were written down 0:15:44.030 --> 0:15:46.750 in a kind of a notebook. We think that they 0:15:46.750 --> 0:15:49.870 were mostly from January, February, in those early months of 0:15:49.870 --> 0:15:53.190 2025 after the separation, and they were given to us 0:15:53.190 --> 0:15:56.470 by Virginia's family in the US. And it really did 0:15:56.470 --> 0:15:59.150 seem that, like at the very sort of end of 0:15:59.150 --> 0:16:02.030 her life. This is a woman who had gone through 0:16:02.230 --> 0:16:05.790 child abuse, two lots of trafficking. I mean, even before 0:16:05.790 --> 0:16:09.630 Jeffrey Epstein, she was trafficked. And then this marriage, which 0:16:09.630 --> 0:16:12.990 had its difficulties as well as its highs. And here 0:16:12.990 --> 0:16:16.030 she was in the Perth wheat belt on her farm, 0:16:16.310 --> 0:16:19.870 just thinking about what a healthy relationship was. And we 0:16:19.870 --> 0:16:22.830 were really struck by that. It almost seemed like Carla said, 0:16:22.830 --> 0:16:26.070 like she was thinking about advocacy in that area. She 0:16:26.070 --> 0:16:30.390 was really engaged in what domestic violence kind of constitutes, 0:16:30.390 --> 0:16:33.150 and very much the coercive control debate that we see 0:16:33.190 --> 0:16:34.750 going on in Australia right now. 0:16:39.710 --> 0:16:42.630 Well, it's an absolutely heartbreaking story, but we're so lucky 0:16:42.630 --> 0:16:44.430 that we've had both of you reporting on it. So 0:16:44.430 --> 0:16:47.350 thank you so much, Mel and Carla for your time. 0:16:47.470 --> 0:16:48.270 Thanks, Sam. 0:16:48.270 --> 0:16:49.510 Thanks for having us, Sam. 0:16:51.070 --> 0:16:52.270 You can listen to all four. 0:16:52.310 --> 0:16:56.190 Episodes of the podcast, Virginia on your favorite podcast app, 0:16:56.430 --> 0:16:58.950 and make sure to check out Melissa Fyfe and Carla 0:16:58.950 --> 0:17:05.630 Hildebrandt's feature at the age.com.au and smh.com.au. In the meantime, 0:17:05.630 --> 0:17:06.590 here's a preview. 0:17:08.790 --> 0:17:12.270 Virginia Giuffre helped vanquish a prince and a millionaire. 0:17:12.510 --> 0:17:15.109 Prince Andrew's accuser Virginia Giuffre. 0:17:15.350 --> 0:17:17.910 One of the most prominent and vocal accusers of sex 0:17:17.910 --> 0:17:19.189 trafficker Jeffrey Epstein. 0:17:19.430 --> 0:17:21.229 Outspoken survivors of their abuse. 0:17:21.270 --> 0:17:23.710 I won't stop fighting. I will never be silenced until 0:17:23.710 --> 0:17:25.070 these people are brought to justice. 0:17:26.430 --> 0:17:29.310 But one of her toughest battles was a very private one. 0:17:29.790 --> 0:17:34.260 I was really shocked that she hadn't broken something in 0:17:34.260 --> 0:17:34.900 her face. 0:17:36.020 --> 0:17:37.699 You're going to go there to protect her? That's funny. 0:17:37.740 --> 0:17:39.660 I mean, hell, you're her biggest threat right now. 0:17:40.700 --> 0:17:43.179 In Australia, our systems failed her. 0:17:44.500 --> 0:17:46.900 It was the worst thing that could have happened to her. 0:17:46.940 --> 0:17:50.700 Her children were her life. 0:17:50.900 --> 0:17:53.020 I don't think any of us really understand what she 0:17:53.060 --> 0:17:54.340 carried every day. 0:17:54.740 --> 0:17:57.179 She was a fierce advocate for so long, and it 0:17:57.180 --> 0:18:00.340 shouldn't have been on her to be advocating for herself. 0:18:02.140 --> 0:18:04.980 Even in death, the conspiracies persisted. 0:18:05.100 --> 0:18:09.100 Virginia Giuffre. That she was involved in a serious crash, 0:18:09.300 --> 0:18:11.580 which has left her with just days to live. 0:18:11.700 --> 0:18:14.419 Where she writes, quote, I am making it publicly known 0:18:14.420 --> 0:18:17.619 that in no way, shape or form am I suicidal. 0:18:17.980 --> 0:18:20.300 The story just doesn't add up for me. I believe 0:18:20.340 --> 0:18:22.180 a shred of it at this point. I've seen too much. 0:18:24.540 --> 0:18:28.340 Virginia. A podcast from the newsrooms of the age, the 0:18:28.340 --> 0:18:31.699 Sydney Morning Herald and WA today out now. 0:18:40.740 --> 0:18:43.780 If you or anyone you know needs support, you can 0:18:43.780 --> 0:18:48.340 contact the National Sexual Assault Domestic and Family Violence Counselling 0:18:48.340 --> 0:18:58.220 Service on one 800 respect 1800 737 732. Lifeline on 1311114 or 0:18:58.220 --> 0:19:09.780 Beyondblue on 1300 224 636. Today's episode was produced by Josh towers. 0:19:09.940 --> 0:19:13.580 Our executive producer is Tammy Mills, and our podcasts are 0:19:13.580 --> 0:19:17.380 overseen by Lisa Muxworthy and Tom McKendrick. If you like 0:19:17.420 --> 0:19:20.379 our show, follow the Morning Edition and leave a review 0:19:20.380 --> 0:19:23.820 for us on Apple or Spotify. Thanks for listening.