WEBVTT - 3. Pirate Attack! 🏴‍☠️ - Slippery Slope 0:00:02.279 --> 0:00:08.039 Slippery Slope, a true crime podcast about Mount Io and 0:00:08.080 --> 0:00:14.680 the Missing water Slide with Dave O'Neill and Brad Oaks. 0:00:18.720 --> 0:00:22.120 Hello, it's Dave O'Neill and Bradford os and. 0:00:22.000 --> 0:00:26.759 It's episode three of our podcast, Slippery Slope. Now let's 0:00:26.760 --> 0:00:28.520 get you one up to speak. They're just tuned in 0:00:29.240 --> 0:00:32.080 Mount Eyes. Are wanted the water slide. They got it 0:00:32.120 --> 0:00:34.519 made in Turkey and at the end of the last episode, 0:00:34.520 --> 0:00:36.000 what happened Bradford. 0:00:35.800 --> 0:00:38.320 Well, the slide didn't turn up. 0:00:38.520 --> 0:00:39.080 No. 0:00:39.080 --> 0:00:42.479 No, it's a pretty big thing to go missing, isn't it. 0:00:42.680 --> 0:00:45.600 Yes, So it's on a ship. It's on its way 0:00:45.840 --> 0:00:49.559 through the Sewer's Canal and there's some kind of pirate incident. 0:00:50.120 --> 0:00:53.680 Just for geography, Yes, it's Sewers Canal. Then it becomes 0:00:53.680 --> 0:00:56.880 the Red Sea and then I believe it goes into 0:00:56.920 --> 0:01:00.440 the Gulf of Oman, Yeah, and then into the Indian 0:01:00.480 --> 0:01:01.319 Ocean and on. 0:01:01.280 --> 0:01:03.560 The other side it's the Mediterranean. 0:01:02.960 --> 0:01:04.399 And Mediterranean exactly. 0:01:04.440 --> 0:01:08.640 If you're coming from Turkey, you're coming through the Red 0:01:08.640 --> 0:01:10.600 Sea into the Sewers Canal into the Mediterraneans. 0:01:10.680 --> 0:01:13.000 Correct, it's a shortcut. It's a shortcut so that you 0:01:13.000 --> 0:01:17.200 have to go all the way around down past All Africa. 0:01:17.319 --> 0:01:19.560 I think it's quite a devilish as well to. 0:01:19.520 --> 0:01:21.960 Go past and South Africa's on the bottom, and then 0:01:21.959 --> 0:01:24.200 you've got to go up and it's another week or 0:01:24.240 --> 0:01:26.240 two weeks or something. Yeah, well, let's get a bit 0:01:26.280 --> 0:01:29.640 more information from Mark Miller, the project manager. 0:01:29.800 --> 0:01:33.240 Turkey's I suppose that's where the one of the main 0:01:33.360 --> 0:01:36.560 manufacturers for the water slides are and cost of fishient 0:01:37.120 --> 0:01:41.760 time efficient's questionable, but definitely cost efficient. So originally it 0:01:41.800 --> 0:01:45.759 was a sixteen week procurement lead time which turned into 0:01:46.440 --> 0:01:49.760 I think just over twenty four weeks up. 0:01:50.200 --> 0:01:52.720 What were the delays? There were rumors of pirate. 0:01:53.440 --> 0:01:58.280 The pirate rumors are pretty much true. There was. There 0:01:58.440 --> 0:02:01.880 was a bit of an issue the Sew's Canal where 0:02:02.000 --> 0:02:06.200 one of the continents got herld up and pirates seemed 0:02:06.280 --> 0:02:09.200 to take a bit of a lake into the slides 0:02:09.240 --> 0:02:10.480 and off off that went. 0:02:11.400 --> 0:02:13.280 Where did it go? Maybe? 0:02:13.360 --> 0:02:15.520 Yeah, the pirates love slides. Maybe they've got their own 0:02:15.520 --> 0:02:19.120 little water parks somewhere. Pirates of the Caribbean, you know, 0:02:19.200 --> 0:02:19.760 they love it. 0:02:21.240 --> 0:02:23.120 So what did it go missing? Or did you find it? 0:02:23.280 --> 0:02:24.519 Or they went missing? 0:02:24.639 --> 0:02:27.760 So they then to re manufacture and we send out 0:02:27.800 --> 0:02:31.400 more doc in hence the heavy delay to the project. 0:02:31.800 --> 0:02:33.519 The original water slide actually went. 0:02:33.400 --> 0:02:35.960 Missing parts, parts of it in parts. 0:02:36.400 --> 0:02:39.000 Was this in the Sewer's Canal after the Sewers Canals? 0:02:39.040 --> 0:02:41.200 I believe it's in the siouxse Canal. 0:02:41.720 --> 0:02:45.200 Well, that's interesting he believes it happened in the Sewers Canal. 0:02:45.280 --> 0:02:47.280 But what is the history of the Sewers Canal. 0:02:47.480 --> 0:02:49.640 I think the French started to build it. 0:02:49.840 --> 0:02:52.440 I remember seeing photos of it being dug out by shovels. 0:02:52.600 --> 0:02:56.119 In seventeen ninety eight, Napoleon tried to find the remnants 0:02:56.120 --> 0:03:00.840 of an ancient waterway. Oh, which just started this conversation 0:03:01.000 --> 0:03:03.679 about this was canw A bit like the trains of 0:03:03.720 --> 0:03:06.160 an Olburne Airport gets talked about a lot. 0:03:06.240 --> 0:03:08.920 Yeah, people get their photo taken, but nothing much happens. 0:03:09.080 --> 0:03:10.720 I remember when it was built because of the Crown. 0:03:10.760 --> 0:03:12.960 I saw it in the Crown. NASA controlled it. 0:03:12.960 --> 0:03:17.840 It opened in under French control in eighteen sixty nine, right, 0:03:18.000 --> 0:03:21.200 I think people kind of squabble over it for years, 0:03:21.240 --> 0:03:25.200 but then NASA, the Egyptian president. 0:03:24.880 --> 0:03:26.160 Well, I can read this here. 0:03:26.200 --> 0:03:29.840 In nineteen fifty one, Egypt repudiated the nineteen thirty six 0:03:29.960 --> 0:03:32.840 Treaty with Great Britain. Britain had to remove their troops 0:03:32.919 --> 0:03:36.600 nineteen fifty six. NASA responded by nationalizing the canal on 0:03:36.640 --> 0:03:38.400 twenty sixth July nineteen fifty six. 0:03:38.480 --> 0:03:40.120 There was a bit of a hooha about that because 0:03:40.120 --> 0:03:42.280 that's in the crown, so NASA president of Egypt. Yeah, 0:03:42.280 --> 0:03:43.200 he was one that controlled it. 0:03:43.200 --> 0:03:45.760 In the end, it became an enormous source of revenue 0:03:45.840 --> 0:03:47.520 for them because how much does. 0:03:47.400 --> 0:03:49.440 It go through? I think it's six hundred grand, isn't 0:03:49.480 --> 0:03:51.880 it for a ship? Six hundred grand? 0:03:52.080 --> 0:03:55.720 Yeah, that's there's your city link, as you're told. 0:03:56.160 --> 0:03:58.920 But importantly it's a US dollars as a great source 0:03:58.960 --> 0:04:01.920 of US dollars. Everybody has to pay and use of dollars, 0:04:02.080 --> 0:04:05.720 which leads me to think that it's gold mine and 0:04:05.760 --> 0:04:06.280 for Egypt. 0:04:06.360 --> 0:04:08.240 Yeah, and it's not that white. I know, it's not 0:04:08.240 --> 0:04:11.000 that wide, so it would be easy to attack in it, 0:04:11.040 --> 0:04:13.400 but it'd be hard to get out anyway. We need 0:04:13.400 --> 0:04:16.400 a bit more information about the actual attack, like what 0:04:16.520 --> 0:04:20.520 happened was eating stolen. Let's go to Daniel from Simplex, 0:04:20.560 --> 0:04:24.240 who was involved in making the slide and delivering the slide. 0:04:24.040 --> 0:04:26.640 It goes into production and yeah, it all comes in 0:04:27.120 --> 0:04:29.440 forty four containers with the steel work and all the 0:04:29.480 --> 0:04:32.320 bolts like a package sort of kit, and with drawings. 0:04:32.320 --> 0:04:34.000 It don't make sense. And then you try and put 0:04:34.040 --> 0:04:35.600 it all together over here. 0:04:35.480 --> 0:04:37.800 Now, what happened with the Mountay as a water slide. 0:04:37.880 --> 0:04:39.760 It's a little bit hard to get an extension of 0:04:39.839 --> 0:04:42.960 time when you approach the council and say pirates were. 0:04:42.800 --> 0:04:46.640 Involved, right, so pirates were involved. 0:04:46.680 --> 0:04:49.719 Pirates were involved. I think the pirates actually boarded the ship. 0:04:50.400 --> 0:04:52.479 I don't know if it was Jack Sparrow or not. 0:04:53.200 --> 0:04:54.160 That's unconfirmed. 0:04:54.480 --> 0:04:59.520 Okay, so pirates were definitely involved. I don't really understand 0:04:59.520 --> 0:05:02.240 how they got actually got the stuff, because when we 0:05:02.279 --> 0:05:04.960 think of containers on a ship, they're closed off, you know, 0:05:05.000 --> 0:05:08.120 the big classic metal containers that we see on trucks, 0:05:08.160 --> 0:05:10.960 on trains, et cetera. But apparently these were something called 0:05:10.960 --> 0:05:13.760 I think open top containers. Well, let Daniel explain. 0:05:14.120 --> 0:05:17.320 The steel work comes with no lids. They're open top containers. 0:05:17.360 --> 0:05:19.159 All the steel works they loaded in from the top. 0:05:19.360 --> 0:05:21.160 When it turns up the site, you unloaded with a 0:05:21.200 --> 0:05:23.040 crane or a front and rip it out from the 0:05:23.080 --> 0:05:26.159 top at all fiberglasses in what we call high kids, 0:05:26.200 --> 0:05:28.839 which are a little bit higher than normal containers, and 0:05:28.920 --> 0:05:32.919 they pack all the fiberglass pieces in sections like that. 0:05:33.040 --> 0:05:36.640 It's actually quite a skillful process to pack a forty 0:05:36.640 --> 0:05:40.320 foot container tightly with fiberglass. If customs end up getting 0:05:40.360 --> 0:05:41.760 it and rip it all out, they can never get 0:05:41.760 --> 0:05:43.719 it back in, which is normally one of our issues 0:05:43.760 --> 0:05:44.159 we can have. 0:05:44.720 --> 0:05:47.640 Right So, now understand that the containers are open, you 0:05:47.680 --> 0:05:49.359 can actually get in there and have a look and 0:05:49.360 --> 0:05:53.440 get stuff out. Interesting that both the guys have mentioned 0:05:53.520 --> 0:05:54.480 Jack Sparrow a. 0:05:54.400 --> 0:05:55.400 Bit of sadness for me. 0:05:55.480 --> 0:05:58.320 There's so many other pirates, I know, you know, why 0:05:58.360 --> 0:05:59.400 would Jack Sparrow be. 0:06:00.839 --> 0:06:04.040 Captain Kid. You've got black Beard captain more than you've 0:06:04.040 --> 0:06:08.320 got Captain Pugwash captain. I don't know if his I 0:06:08.400 --> 0:06:10.520 don't think he was. I think it was. I think 0:06:10.520 --> 0:06:11.360 it was Jack Sparrow. 0:06:11.560 --> 0:06:15.520 He's everyone mentions Jack Sparrow, Captain Hook, Captain Hook from 0:06:16.920 --> 0:06:19.320 just you know, and don't reckon that story was just 0:06:19.360 --> 0:06:20.359 made up as they went along. 0:06:20.560 --> 0:06:23.360 How he lose his hand on crocodile? Come on, mate, Yes, 0:06:24.200 --> 0:06:25.200 he's got the ball. 0:06:26.120 --> 0:06:30.320 Well, because we all think of pirates are something cute, 0:06:30.520 --> 0:06:33.039 a parrot on their shoulder, a wooden leg, But of 0:06:33.040 --> 0:06:35.200 course these are like Somali pirates. 0:06:35.360 --> 0:06:38.479 I have a pirate joke. Well, everybody knows the joke. 0:06:38.560 --> 0:06:42.719 What's the pirate's favorite leader? Well, no, in fact, it's 0:06:42.760 --> 0:06:45.440 the seas all. 0:06:44.680 --> 0:06:48.279 Right, But have you seen that Tom Hanks movie Mister 0:06:48.360 --> 0:06:51.520 Roberts where he's it's it's just it's like he's on 0:06:51.560 --> 0:06:54.840 a big cargo ship and Somali pirates board and capture 0:06:54.880 --> 0:06:57.760 the vessel. So it's those kinds of pirates. Yeah, I 0:06:57.839 --> 0:06:59.600 believe it's not the cute pirates. 0:06:59.800 --> 0:07:02.160 Not a few pirates, and it's not the people who 0:07:02.320 --> 0:07:03.880 back in the nineties were. 0:07:03.680 --> 0:07:06.360 Just copying videos. They were pirates. 0:07:06.360 --> 0:07:07.640 Oh yes, video pirates. 0:07:07.880 --> 0:07:12.080 The number one conserned the FBI at one stage. 0:07:10.600 --> 0:07:13.080 Yeah, it's a crime. 0:07:13.320 --> 0:07:15.840 Well, you know, Fast and Furious was about copying DVDs. 0:07:16.000 --> 0:07:18.080 The first movie was about DVD theft. 0:07:18.280 --> 0:07:21.000 I had no idea. Yeah, I've never seen any of them. 0:07:21.040 --> 0:07:23.720 Are there any other mentions of Jack Sparrow from anyone 0:07:23.720 --> 0:07:27.400 on this podcast. Let's go to Cogo, the deputy mayor 0:07:27.560 --> 0:07:28.239 of Mount iSER. 0:07:28.560 --> 0:07:31.360 Yeah, someone probably in Somalia has got half a slide, 0:07:31.400 --> 0:07:32.880 so I don't know what they're doing with it. And 0:07:32.920 --> 0:07:36.360 when they said pirates, I'm like, oh, Jack Sparrow, So 0:07:37.760 --> 0:07:39.640 Jack Sparrot's the only pirate I'd like to meet. 0:07:41.120 --> 0:07:43.720 There we go another. Jack Sparrow mentioned you've got to 0:07:43.800 --> 0:07:46.760 imagine though, so the pirates of the board of the ship, 0:07:46.800 --> 0:07:49.520 they've got part of the water slide or something's happening. 0:07:49.880 --> 0:07:52.040 But what's happening in Mount iSER. I mean, that's a 0:07:52.160 --> 0:07:53.840 long way from the Sewers Canal, isn't it. 0:07:54.080 --> 0:07:55.760 It's a long way from any water. It really does. 0:07:55.960 --> 0:07:58.760 Yeah, exactly. Here's Danny l the former mayor. 0:07:59.240 --> 0:08:02.240 So when they said to me that the ship had 0:08:02.280 --> 0:08:05.600 been taken over by pirates, and to me, it was 0:08:05.680 --> 0:08:08.559 like the dogs ate my homework. You know, they haven't 0:08:08.640 --> 0:08:12.240 ordered it. They're delaying and on purpose, and they're just 0:08:12.280 --> 0:08:14.840 trying to get it after the elections. So it's not 0:08:14.880 --> 0:08:16.960 something I could point and say to see, look what I've. 0:08:16.840 --> 0:08:18.960 Done, you know, Yeah, Daniel the former me, well, I 0:08:19.000 --> 0:08:22.280 suppose with local politics, people could be thinking this is 0:08:22.360 --> 0:08:25.800 just something's made up, pirates in the Sewers Canal. 0:08:25.840 --> 0:08:28.720 You're like, what it sounds like something Buiolchie Peterson would 0:08:28.720 --> 0:08:30.960 have said in the seventies or eighties. 0:08:31.160 --> 0:08:32.480 You know, well, you know. 0:08:34.280 --> 0:08:39.080 Pirates, Jack, get out, bloody Jacks Barro or Bob Catter 0:08:39.280 --> 0:08:42.280 would say, So let's cross the Shae Donovan, she actually 0:08:42.360 --> 0:08:44.800 runs the aquatic center of the pull Man is where 0:08:44.840 --> 0:08:47.040 the water slide is meant to be, So she's waiting 0:08:47.080 --> 0:08:47.960 for the water slide. 0:08:48.120 --> 0:08:49.439 This is what she had to say when she heard 0:08:49.440 --> 0:08:50.200 about the pirates. 0:08:50.280 --> 0:08:53.160 So I wasn't too sure what was going on because Mark, 0:08:53.480 --> 0:08:55.760 the project manager, is a bit of a joker and 0:08:55.800 --> 0:08:59.160 if there's something delayed in a contractor might be a 0:08:59.200 --> 0:09:01.000 day late delivering something, he'll make a bit of a 0:09:01.080 --> 0:09:05.200 joke about it. So I didn't really believe what he 0:09:05.360 --> 0:09:07.720 was telling us. I thought it was just some gimmick 0:09:07.800 --> 0:09:10.080 he was coming up with something. But then when we 0:09:10.120 --> 0:09:13.320 found out for real it was a pirate attack on 0:09:13.360 --> 0:09:16.560 the ship that was carrying the containers, Yeah, it was 0:09:16.600 --> 0:09:19.959 a little bit like, oh, okay, of course this has 0:09:19.960 --> 0:09:22.360 happened to us in Mount Eysa. What else would happen? 0:09:23.240 --> 0:09:25.679 Shay, who runs a pool in man eyes hats off 0:09:25.720 --> 0:09:29.240 to her. She didn't mention Jack Sparrow When talking about pirates, 0:09:29.240 --> 0:09:33.640 she's been the first not to mention Jack Sparrow. So okay, 0:09:33.920 --> 0:09:36.920 there seems to be disagreement about where the attack actually happened. 0:09:37.000 --> 0:09:38.840 Let's got to Mark Miller, the project manager. 0:09:39.000 --> 0:09:42.840 I believe it's in the Sioux's Canal, and then the 0:09:42.880 --> 0:09:45.480 rest of it got diversed. So then the diversion that 0:09:45.520 --> 0:09:46.640 didn't have to go run. 0:09:46.559 --> 0:09:47.720 The coast of Africa. 0:09:47.760 --> 0:09:50.760 Then, but the pirates attacked in the Siouxs Canal. 0:09:51.000 --> 0:09:52.960 Then of course that takes a lot longer to go 0:09:53.000 --> 0:09:54.559 around the bottom of Africa. 0:09:54.640 --> 0:09:57.280 Of course, of course, And he's the twenty four week delay. 0:09:57.880 --> 0:09:59.720 No, I wasn't in the canal. Yeah, it was in 0:09:59.760 --> 0:10:02.640 the ocean bits around there. Have you ever seen that 0:10:02.679 --> 0:10:05.000 Tom Hanks movie where he's at the end he's going 0:10:05.120 --> 0:10:07.760 like oh yeah, Like yeah, I'm pretty sure it was 0:10:07.800 --> 0:10:08.600 those type of guys. 0:10:08.600 --> 0:10:09.440 No, I don't really know. 0:10:10.320 --> 0:10:12.360 We've had a bit of pirate activity, but none that 0:10:12.400 --> 0:10:15.480 have ever boarded the actual ship. Last year especially, there 0:10:15.480 --> 0:10:18.400 was constant pirate doos and like I said, that's hard 0:10:18.400 --> 0:10:20.360 to get it over along with the client pirates again, 0:10:20.440 --> 0:10:22.800 sorry you water slide I can installed in time. 0:10:22.600 --> 0:10:25.599 But right, So this seems to be a bit of disagreement. 0:10:25.640 --> 0:10:29.360 That's Daniel there from Swimplex about where the attack actually happened. 0:10:29.400 --> 0:10:32.240 What's your thinking, Bradford. You've become an expert on sewers 0:10:32.280 --> 0:10:35.040 Canal via the internet piracy. 0:10:35.120 --> 0:10:37.640 Well also I tracked down expert. 0:10:37.960 --> 0:10:40.000 This is what we need. We need a piracy expert. 0:10:40.240 --> 0:10:42.920 Yeah, but you know, look, I was dubious in the 0:10:42.960 --> 0:10:46.600 first place that anything would take part in a sewers canal, 0:10:47.120 --> 0:10:51.520 just because of how much the Egyptian government would guard it. 0:10:51.640 --> 0:10:53.000 And it's so narrow. 0:10:52.840 --> 0:10:54.280 Least, yeah, yeah, narrow. 0:10:54.360 --> 0:10:57.640 Yeah, And as we'll discover, there's also a definition of 0:10:57.679 --> 0:11:00.000 piracy that's going to come into play. 0:11:00.080 --> 0:11:01.400 Really, and there's a HOOTI rebels. 0:11:01.679 --> 0:11:02.760 Well there's HOOTI rebels. 0:11:02.760 --> 0:11:05.959 And then so when people say Somali pirates, I looked 0:11:06.000 --> 0:11:09.520 on the map and Somalia was like about well two 0:11:09.559 --> 0:11:12.880 and a half thousand kilometers from the sewers Canal. 0:11:13.559 --> 0:11:15.360 So that's a long way to go to work. 0:11:15.440 --> 0:11:17.280 I mean, if you were a pirate, I mean it's 0:11:17.320 --> 0:11:19.720 like sort of being in the nightclub or being outside 0:11:19.960 --> 0:11:22.600 there's people lining up for the sewers Canal. Right, yeah, 0:11:22.640 --> 0:11:24.520 now you could it's like lining up for a nightclub. 0:11:24.720 --> 0:11:26.920 You wouldn't go into the nightclub, you'd I don't want 0:11:26.920 --> 0:11:28.840 to talk about attacking people, but if you were going 0:11:28.920 --> 0:11:31.520 to do something, surely you do it outside. Sure you 0:11:31.559 --> 0:11:33.920 do it in the bit before the Sewers Canal. 0:11:34.080 --> 0:11:36.560 Well, it depends if they're going the way they were coming. 0:11:36.720 --> 0:11:38.960 Don't coming from Turkey. So they're coming down. 0:11:39.400 --> 0:11:41.040 Yeah, right, so they're coming down. 0:11:41.200 --> 0:11:43.520 I think you turn left at Israel or something like that, 0:11:44.640 --> 0:11:48.199 and then you come to the Sewers Canal and get 0:11:48.280 --> 0:11:48.680 in the canal. 0:11:48.760 --> 0:11:51.679 Then you go into I think the Red Sea, and 0:11:51.720 --> 0:11:54.120 then like I said, I think it's the Gulf. 0:11:54.320 --> 0:11:56.320 I'm learning that I don't know anything about geography. 0:11:56.320 --> 0:11:59.839 And then well, because what you've got coming from Turkey's 0:12:00.400 --> 0:12:01.600 basically that's the. 0:12:01.600 --> 0:12:02.240 End of Europe. 0:12:02.400 --> 0:12:05.439 Yes, to me, it was dubius. Although we should cut 0:12:05.480 --> 0:12:08.400 to the expert. Yes, find out a bit about piracy. 0:12:08.520 --> 0:12:11.800 Tamson Page is We'll let her introduce herself, but she's 0:12:11.840 --> 0:12:16.840 an academic with many qualifications in this area. 0:12:16.960 --> 0:12:17.280 Hello. 0:12:18.679 --> 0:12:21.400 So I'm doctor Tamson Philip A. Page. I am an 0:12:21.440 --> 0:12:26.040 associate professor at Deacon Law School. I did my m 0:12:26.080 --> 0:12:30.160 phil at A and U studying the application of piracy 0:12:30.280 --> 0:12:34.080 law in Somali counter piracy operations. And I did that 0:12:34.120 --> 0:12:37.800 while also working with the UN Office on Drugs and Crime. 0:12:38.080 --> 0:12:41.320 That about Somali piracy would have been in twenty twelve 0:12:41.360 --> 0:12:45.600 and twenty thirteen. I've also got a PhD in International 0:12:45.640 --> 0:12:49.760 security law, and I teach and research in international law 0:12:49.840 --> 0:12:50.920 and legal ethics. 0:12:51.480 --> 0:12:55.959 That's impressive. That's impressive. Is there piracy in the sewers Canal? 0:12:56.280 --> 0:13:00.400 The question that becomes if it's piracy or something else, 0:13:00.480 --> 0:13:04.920 because legally it actually wouldn't be piracy at a pure 0:13:05.040 --> 0:13:09.040 legal level, which is really quite interesting in that regard 0:13:09.120 --> 0:13:11.480 because of some quirks of jurisdiction. 0:13:11.960 --> 0:13:13.440 Right, well, because of the sewers Canal. 0:13:13.960 --> 0:13:16.679 Yeah, because the sewers Canal forms essentially they're straight for 0:13:16.920 --> 0:13:21.920 international navigation. Piracy by legal definition can only occur in 0:13:22.000 --> 0:13:25.680 international waters or the high seeds legally refer. 0:13:25.559 --> 0:13:29.719 To it, right, And so I mean, but are there 0:13:29.800 --> 0:13:32.480 Somali pirates active in the sewers Canal? 0:13:32.840 --> 0:13:35.280 Not? In the sewers They're active mostly through the Red 0:13:35.320 --> 0:13:37.800 Sea and the Horn of Africa, so down kind of 0:13:37.840 --> 0:13:40.520 at the point where you have the Red Sea going 0:13:40.559 --> 0:13:43.920 out into the Indian Ocean through the Gulf of Aden 0:13:44.120 --> 0:13:47.240 and all of those areas kind of with Somalia and 0:13:47.320 --> 0:13:52.040 Yemen on either side of that exit from the Red Sea. 0:13:52.240 --> 0:13:57.360 So if they're avowed pirates of declared pirates, but then 0:13:57.440 --> 0:14:02.480 they actually committed crime in what is in international waters, 0:14:02.679 --> 0:14:04.120 what do you designate them as. 0:14:04.400 --> 0:14:08.800 Su as canal? My understanding is Egyptian territory. So essentially 0:14:08.880 --> 0:14:12.679 they are just engaging in theft or larceny or whatever 0:14:12.840 --> 0:14:18.600 under Egyptian law. Because they're committing it in Egyptian internal waters. 0:14:18.640 --> 0:14:22.680 It seemed unlikely because the Egyptians seem to police it 0:14:22.840 --> 0:14:26.400 so well, there wouldn't be a lot of crime going 0:14:26.440 --> 0:14:29.400 on there, you know of that overt nature. 0:14:29.920 --> 0:14:33.280 Well, I wouldn't expect so, but it is a major waterway, 0:14:33.360 --> 0:14:36.400 as we all found out when the ever given ran 0:14:36.480 --> 0:14:40.240 aground at all. Global trade stopped for a few weeks 0:14:40.280 --> 0:14:43.920 while they dug it out. The designation of pirate versus 0:14:44.480 --> 0:14:48.760 just theft is literally one of did it happen more 0:14:48.800 --> 0:14:52.760 than twelve nautical miles from the coast of a state? 0:14:52.920 --> 0:14:56.240 If yes, it's piracy, If no, it's just armed robbery. 0:14:56.280 --> 0:15:02.200 At c right National Maritime Organation, when keeping statistics on 0:15:02.840 --> 0:15:05.440 this treat them as the one set of crime. But 0:15:05.640 --> 0:15:08.680 legally you're only a pirate if you're doing this on 0:15:09.160 --> 0:15:11.920 the high seas. And there's a whole bunch of really 0:15:11.960 --> 0:15:16.760 interesting international political reasons for that, But generally speaking, yeah, 0:15:16.760 --> 0:15:19.280 if it's not happening on the high seas, you're not 0:15:19.360 --> 0:15:22.080 doing piracy. You're just engaging in theft. 0:15:22.400 --> 0:15:25.280 So it's a bit of a champagne versus sparkling wine thing, 0:15:25.400 --> 0:15:26.080 isn't it? 0:15:26.080 --> 0:15:28.880 It is? But the reasons for it are less because 0:15:28.920 --> 0:15:34.000 the French are snotting and weird, and more because countries 0:15:34.040 --> 0:15:37.840 like Philippines and Indonesia and things like that have vast 0:15:38.120 --> 0:15:40.880 amounts of what we call archipelagic waters where they have 0:15:41.000 --> 0:15:46.480 exclusive jurisdiction and they don't want Chinese and US militaries 0:15:46.680 --> 0:15:50.240 just sending their navy patrolling through all of these waters 0:15:50.720 --> 0:15:53.640 under the guise of counter piracy operations. 0:15:53.840 --> 0:15:54.360 Wow. 0:15:54.600 --> 0:15:57.680 And also in the Suits Canal recently there's been they're 0:15:57.680 --> 0:16:00.960 not called pirates, are called rebels, the Hooti rebels, which 0:16:01.400 --> 0:16:04.760 they seem to have a different aim than say, the 0:16:04.800 --> 0:16:07.120 normal standard Somali pirate. Is that correct? 0:16:07.280 --> 0:16:10.640 I mean, I'm reluctant to call them rebels because actually 0:16:10.720 --> 0:16:14.480 they control seventy five percent of the populations in Yemen, 0:16:14.640 --> 0:16:17.160 so calling them rebels seems to be a denial of 0:16:17.200 --> 0:16:20.400 the fact that they are just the government of Yemen. Functionally. 0:16:20.480 --> 0:16:24.480 These days, they're engaging in attacks on merchant shipping, they 0:16:24.480 --> 0:16:30.320 claim out of solidarity and part of actions against Israel's 0:16:30.360 --> 0:16:34.880 activities in Gaza. However, they're attacking merchant shipping, which is 0:16:35.040 --> 0:16:38.080 just either a war crime or a crime against humanity. 0:16:38.120 --> 0:16:41.600 It's either it's unlawful, regardless of the reasons for doing it. 0:16:41.920 --> 0:16:45.440 But again, the question about whether or not that's piracy 0:16:46.000 --> 0:16:47.880 comes down to whether or not you accept that the 0:16:47.960 --> 0:16:51.400 Hohothies are just the government of Yemen or if they 0:16:51.400 --> 0:16:58.080 are an independent belligerent organization that doesn't have governmental powers. 0:16:58.600 --> 0:17:00.560 And they're not stealing stuff, are they? They just seemed 0:17:00.600 --> 0:17:03.280 to get on boats and hold hostages and stuff. 0:17:03.440 --> 0:17:05.879 They're not really stealing stuff. That doesn't mean Somali pirates 0:17:05.920 --> 0:17:10.200 didn't really steal much either. Somali pirates were generally taking 0:17:11.320 --> 0:17:14.800 ships hostage and holding them for ransom and then releasing 0:17:14.840 --> 0:17:17.479 them with all the cargo and crew after ransoms had 0:17:17.520 --> 0:17:20.720 been paid. But the Huthi are often doing a lot 0:17:20.760 --> 0:17:26.000 of attacks with drones and things like that and sinking 0:17:26.119 --> 0:17:29.440 motion shipping as well as hostage taking, etc. Their goal 0:17:29.560 --> 0:17:34.720 is not economic, whereas Somali pirates goal was purely economic. 0:17:35.280 --> 0:17:38.240 So with this case that we're looking into, people are 0:17:38.240 --> 0:17:42.000 in disagree about where the actual attack happened, but they 0:17:42.040 --> 0:17:45.000 do believe that the so called pirates boarded the ship 0:17:45.800 --> 0:17:48.840 and stole stuff. But I'm pretty sure now that we 0:17:48.920 --> 0:17:51.359 talked to you and other accounts that it was in 0:17:51.400 --> 0:17:53.280 the Red Sea. So they all seem to think it 0:17:53.280 --> 0:17:56.199 was Somali pirates. Why would they take bits of a 0:17:56.280 --> 0:17:58.840 water slide? They wouldn't know what that was, surely, I. 0:17:58.760 --> 0:18:01.520 Don't know whether they know it was. I mean that said, 0:18:01.520 --> 0:18:04.119 they'd probably be able to tell what a water slide 0:18:04.160 --> 0:18:06.840 is in Somalia just as well as anywhere else. However, 0:18:08.359 --> 0:18:11.480 it all comes down to economics. Like pirates are driven 0:18:11.600 --> 0:18:14.320 by what can we sell or in the case of 0:18:14.359 --> 0:18:17.680 hostage shaking, how can we make a profit to make 0:18:17.840 --> 0:18:22.159 ends meet in an area that has been destroyed by 0:18:22.960 --> 0:18:26.800 civil war since nineteen ninety two. But the northern regions 0:18:26.800 --> 0:18:30.160 are fairly stable with autonomous governments, but those governments aren't 0:18:30.200 --> 0:18:34.480 recognized internationally, so they have no trade or anything else 0:18:34.520 --> 0:18:40.200 that sustains an economy, so enter piracy as an economic alternative. 0:18:40.840 --> 0:18:43.919 So they do have that range then to travel all 0:18:43.960 --> 0:18:45.480 the way up into the Red Sea. 0:18:45.520 --> 0:18:48.760 They have been attacked from Somali pirates up to four 0:18:48.800 --> 0:18:51.679 hundred nautical miles off into the Indian Ocean off the 0:18:51.680 --> 0:18:56.040 coast of Somalia. They have significant range, usually because they 0:18:56.160 --> 0:19:01.560 usually use ocean going fishing vessels as motherships to then 0:19:01.720 --> 0:19:05.920 launch boarding skiffs to board ships. They will kind of 0:19:05.960 --> 0:19:08.879 then have ladders with hooks that they'll attached to the 0:19:08.920 --> 0:19:11.800 side of the cargo vessel and climb up with their 0:19:11.800 --> 0:19:14.520 assault rifles to take control of it, take control of 0:19:14.520 --> 0:19:18.320 a ship, and quite frequently they'll fire rocket propelled grenades 0:19:18.400 --> 0:19:21.800 from these boarding skiffs at the cargo vessels in an 0:19:21.800 --> 0:19:23.920 attempt to get them to surrender before boarding. 0:19:24.520 --> 0:19:27.960 Well, and I read somewhere that they're mainly ex fishermen. 0:19:28.119 --> 0:19:30.680 Is that right because they're fishing was ruined or is 0:19:30.720 --> 0:19:31.840 that just like an over myth. 0:19:32.200 --> 0:19:37.160 Originally there was some veracity to that because with the 0:19:37.320 --> 0:19:41.320 entire lack of government in Somalia, what you had is 0:19:41.359 --> 0:19:45.680 an inability to enforce fishing rights licensing, so a lot 0:19:45.720 --> 0:19:49.480 of foreign fishing fleets were coming in and effectively poaching 0:19:49.640 --> 0:19:53.640 Somali in the Somali Exclusive Economic Zone of what would 0:19:53.720 --> 0:19:58.720 be Somali fish stocks. So you did have that element 0:19:58.840 --> 0:20:01.400 going on when kind of we started seeing the rise 0:20:01.440 --> 0:20:06.440 of Somali piracy in two thousand and seven, but mostly 0:20:06.720 --> 0:20:10.399 that's kind of abated as a reason, and it became 0:20:10.560 --> 0:20:16.040 very swiftly an organized crime organization rather than rogue former fishermen. 0:20:16.320 --> 0:20:20.439 Right, excellent in terms of heists, if you like, I 0:20:20.440 --> 0:20:24.720 would consider that the slides are fairly exotic thing to 0:20:24.800 --> 0:20:29.639 steal as opposed to weapons and things for resale. Have 0:20:29.760 --> 0:20:34.320