S1: Hey, I'm Osman Faruqi and this is the drop a
S1: culture show from the Sydney Morning Herald and The Age,
S1: where we dive into the latest in the world of
S1: pop culture and entertainment. I'm here with Thomas Mitchell and
S1: Mel Schembri. Tough week for you guys, Thomas. Your boy
S1: Drake took a pretty big L. Mel, your girl Dua
S1: Lipa released a deeply mid album. You guys holding up
S1: all right?
S2: Yeah. Holding up okay. I mean, I think Dua's probably
S2: come off a little better than Drake, but I'm sure
S2: we'll get into that in a bit.
S3: Yeah, I've always been excited to go on the record
S3: defending possible predators. So yeah, it's just another week in
S3: my life.
S1: Uh, we'll be talking a lot more, perhaps unsurprisingly, about
S1: the feud between Kendrick Lamar and Drake, its origins, how
S1: it's played out and what kinds of consequences it could
S1: have for the pair, the wider rap scene and the
S1: music industry more broadly. We're also going to be talking
S1: about the Dua album and some other big pop releases
S1: that we're into at the moment, and finally, we'll be
S1: discussing The Fall Guy, the Australian shot action comedy starring
S1: Ryan Gosling and Emily Blunt. But first, this week it
S1: was the first Tuesday in May, which means the Met
S1: Gala was on.
S4: It's fashion's biggest night.
S5: Sydney the Met Gala is the party of the year.
S4: The Met Gala, the annual celeb studded fundraiser held to
S4: benefit New York City's Metropolitan Museum of Art.
S6: Finally I'm here.
S1: I was moving house on Tuesday, so I did not
S1: pay very close attention to this one. Though I did
S1: get the sense from social media that it seems to
S1: be taking up more and more attention every year. It's
S1: kind of gone from a fashion focused fundraiser thing to
S1: just being like a key part of the pop cultural
S1: calendar every year. Does that ring true to you guys?
S1: What kind of stood out from this year's Met Gala?
S2: Yeah, I reckon that's totally true. And I think it
S2: makes sense because the Met Gala feels so right for
S2: our online generation. It's all spectacle and no substance. It's
S2: all about conscious illusion and artifice. And it's also unlike
S2: other big events, red carpet events. It's just purely based
S2: on celebrity. You have to get the invite from Anna Wintour.
S2: You can be anyone. You don't necessarily have to be
S2: there because you know, you've been nominated for a film.
S2: So you also get quite a broad and interesting sweep
S2: of people, which sets it up for real kind of
S2: viral moments that are perfect for the internet. What stood
S2: out from this one? I actually think maybe it was
S2: the kind of lack of those big moments, those big
S2: talking points, like when I think back to some of
S2: the outfits in the past, Jared Leto in that cat,
S2: Doja Cat as a cat, Lil NAS X room when
S2: he wore that all silver outfit, Kim K had that
S2: big stocking thing. There's been some really big moments, and
S2: I don't really think there were any huge talking points
S2: from this Met Gala. In a way, people seem to
S2: play it really safe. And I also think the other
S2: thing that stood out was the theme. Clearly confused a
S2: lot of people. There was not like a lot of
S2: cohesion in what people were wearing. And I think Anna
S2: Wintour has actually apologized. She kind of potentially saw this
S2: coming because she apologized in advance that maybe the theme
S2: had been a bit confusing. Well, the thing was like.
S1: Garden of something, but people just took the garden bit
S1: more literally.
S7: Yeah, well, the theme was Sleeping.
S2: Beauty's Reawakening fashion, but then the dress code was the
S2: Garden of Time. Um, which are.
S1: The Garden of Time?
S2: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which, um, Anna Wintour obviously now realizes
S2: was too complex for people. Um, so I think it
S2: did come through on the carpet a lot, like it
S2: was not really clear what people were dressing up. And
S2: everyone had quite a different take on the theme.
S3: Yeah, I just saw lots of photos of like, it
S3: was like Hugh Jackman in a tux, Chris Hemsworth in
S3: a tux. Like the Australian guys just doing what Australian
S3: guys do and disappointing everybody. But like, I guess Zendaya
S3: was the big one that everyone was talking about. I
S3: guess generally though, it felt like this was set up
S3: to be a big kind of flashpoint because, I mean,
S3: it's hard to avoid the optics of something like that, uh,
S3: difficult right now with everything that's going on in the world.
S3: People love to kind of have that conversation around big
S3: celebrity events when there are these huge, you know, global
S3: events also happening at the same time, and especially with
S3: something like the Met Gala that isn't, you know, like
S3: an award ceremony or at least something broader. People are
S3: always going to be like, well, do we need to
S3: be doing this right now while you know everything that's
S3: going on in the Middle East?
S1: Yeah, when we talk, we talk about the Met Gala,
S1: but really the way that we consume it publicly is
S1: the celebrities outside the Met Gala being photographed as they enter.
S1: We don't really get a lot from what goes on inside.
S1: I saw someone on social media being like, so what?
S1: What happens in the Met Gala? And it's just what.
S3: Does happen in the it's.
S1: Like a fundraising dinner. I think there were some speeches
S1: and people sort of eat food and wander around. They
S1: take selfies. There's occasionally like videos that emerge of Jennifer
S1: Lopez running into other celebrities in the bathroom. There's an
S1: episode of Dave, the Show that you still refuse to watch, Thomas,
S1: which is set inside the Met Gala in an episode.
S1: That's the closest I've come to understanding what the Met
S1: Gala is like inside.
S2: Yeah, an ocean's. There's an ocean set in in the
S2: Met Gala as well. That's entirely what I'm basing it on. Oh, yeah,
S2: that's right.
S1: Oh, the Ocean's eight. Um, yeah. They're not very good.
S1: Ocean's not because of, you know, the fact that they're
S1: gender flipped. It just wasn't that good. Of course not
S1: as a movie. Yeah. To your point, Thomas, about the
S1: incongruous nature of it this year, Marina Hyde, who I
S1: normally really enjoy reading, she's a Guardian UK columnist, had
S1: a piece this week arguing that during times when the
S1: news is very heavy and grim, an event like the
S1: Met Gala serves as a distraction to it. Just something
S1: we can sort of zone out and watch these people
S1: wear their their outfits. But I mean, I think there's
S1: an argument that in some instances, like the opposite can
S1: also be true. It felt, particularly this year, I think,
S1: to do with the timing of it. Just very odd
S1: where every second post was a celebrity being photographed, and
S1: then the posts after that were like clips or news
S1: stories of Israel's invasion of Gaza. The Met Gala is
S1: deeply a political and like always has been, and it's
S1: another contrast to events like the Oscars. It's not just
S1: about it not being an awards ceremony, but you do see,
S1: even if most celebrities aren't embracing a political message we
S1: have seen in this awards in the last kind of
S1: 12 months of awards season, at least, people wearing pins
S1: making speeches. None of that happens at the Met Gala.
S1: Anna Wintour keeps a pretty tight leash on that. There
S1: was this. Quote from Suzanne Collins that I saw doing
S1: the rounds yesterday. She's the author of The Hunger Games,
S1: and she said that she was inspired to write that
S1: series because in the early 2000, she was watching TV
S1: and it was reality TV being interspersed with clips of
S1: the invasion of Iraq and sort of that, that I think, quote,
S1: has been finding a lot of resonance this week because
S1: people are saying, well, the Met Gala and the invasion
S1: of Rafah happening at the exact same time. It's sort
S1: of hard to to disconnect those two things. It's a
S1: big question, but I mean, is this is this escapism
S1: that we all need? Is it a distraction? How do
S1: you think people should be feeling about this?
S3: Yeah. Like I think I can kind of see both
S3: sides because, I mean, it's easy to say something like
S3: the Met Gala is completely unnecessary and like in bad
S3: taste right now. But then it becomes, for me a
S3: question of like, well, where do you draw the line?
S3: Like we're about to spend however long discussing Drake and
S3: Kendrick arguing over the internet, and you could so easily
S3: make the same argument that, like, that's so ridiculous that
S3: you would even give that air time right now with
S3: everything that's going on. And like, I think it does
S3: become this thing where at some point I guess you
S3: have to decide that you can. I don't know that
S3: these two things can coexist and and it's okay to
S3: talk about both or have both, like it's really tricky
S3: because you don't want to be seen to be like, oh, well,
S3: I'm just putting that out of sight and, you know, whatever. Like,
S3: unfortunately it's not impacting me. So I can just enjoy
S3: the Met Gala. But I do think sometimes there is this,
S3: like inclination to just then call everything shallow and all
S3: we can all be talking about and focusing on 24
S3: over seven is like, what's going on in the Middle East?
S3: And yeah, I think it creates this like lose lose
S3: situation a little bit.
S2: Yeah. I think it's funny that the, the dress code,
S2: The Garden of Time is based on the name of
S2: a short story by J.G. Ballard, who wrote the story
S2: in 1962. Okay, this is a bit fun fact from
S2: your resident reader, but it is kind of funny. The
S2: short story is about this kind of rich couple who
S2: live in an estate where the air is bright and
S2: the the weather is warm. They live in this beautiful
S2: kind of fantasy land. And then one day they look
S2: out onto the dry and barren plains and they see,
S2: like people labored with heavy loads kind of around their neck,
S2: and the kind of rabble sets up on the horizon,
S2: encroaching on their fantasy land. And I mean, that's where
S2: the rabble of the met is. The met is this
S2: garden of illusion and artifice that can't last. But like
S2: this couple that have to kind of keep picking flowers,
S2: you know, it's not going to last. And I mean,
S2: I don't think the met is trying to be self-referential,
S2: but that kind of is it. We're on the horizon,
S2: kind of enjoying the beauty of this estate even as
S2: we know it's fake.
S1: Yeah, it's a kind of perfect accidental metaphor. Yeah. Look,
S1: I don't expect anything dramatic or political from the Mecca.
S1: I think it does what it does, and that's what
S1: it's always done. And that's what it always will do.
S1: I think there's probably just certain times in which the
S1: ability for some of the wealthiest people on the planet
S1: to insulate themselves and pretend nothing else is going on
S1: can sometimes feel like a little bit too absurd. I
S1: think it's a fair point about the rap stuff. Thomas.
S1: I think we'll mention a bit about some of the
S1: criticisms of Drake and Kendrick just talking about themselves when
S1: there's a lot else going on. One of the things
S1: that I just found bewildering, like the the appearance of
S1: Anthony Pratt, the Australian cardboard billionaire dressed in sort of
S1: a pink Willy Wonka suit. And I know that this
S1: is a fundraiser, and I know that all sorts of
S1: just like rich people go to it, but maybe it's
S1: because he's Australian. It's like cultural cringe or something. But
S1: I'm like, this feels like less exciting than it's felt
S1: before seeing him there.
S2: Yeah. And you know how like, color analysis is like
S2: having a real moment at the moment and everyone's getting
S2: it done and getting AI to do it. When I
S2: saw him in that pink suit and his face just
S2: looked so pink, I was like, that is a case
S2: for why color analysis matters. But I also the other Aussie,
S2: you mentioned it earlier, Chris Hemsworth, very bland. Wasn't it?
S2: Just like a classic three piece suit? Like just beige?
S2: So yeah, I don't know if the Australians had a
S2: great showing at the met this year.
S3: Except for Kylie. Obviously.
S1: I didn't see Kylie's outfit. She looked pretty.
S2: Good. Troye Sivan as well. Our our pop princesses did great.
S1: Okay, so from pop princesses to two people who had
S1: nothing to do with the Met Gala at all, it's
S1: time to talk about the biggest cultural moment of the week,
S1: and arguably even the last few years. The incredibly personal,
S1: vicious and deeply fascinating feud between two of the biggest
S1: rappers the past decade, Drake and Kendrick Lamar. I guess
S1: the freshest development in this saga is the news that
S1: one of Drake's security guards was shot inside his house
S1: in Toronto on Wednesday morning. The assailant escaped. We have
S1: no further details about the shooting or the background or
S1: motivations of the shooter, but I mean, it is pretty
S1: wild timing considering everything going on before that incident. It's
S1: worth laying out, I guess. Basically where we were at
S1: after spending a couple of weeks releasing tracks that were
S1: getting increasingly more personal, aimed at each other, allegations of
S1: domestic abuse, sex trafficking, and underage grooming. Kendrick. Was widely
S1: considered to have pretty thoroughly demolished Drake's reputation and outranked him.
S1: Kind of culminated in the most recent track that's been released,
S1: a track from Drake five minutes long, where he basically
S1: spent most of it denying being a pedophile. It's kind
S1: of been interpreted as a quiet, strategic retreat from this
S1: whole episode. This was melanomas, particularly over the weekend when
S1: we had multiple tracks being dropped every day. I think,
S1: safe to say, one of the biggest moments in in
S1: pop culture in recent times, it felt like everyone had
S1: sort of stopped to plug in and see what was
S1: going on. Sure, you were getting text messages either from
S1: people being like, have you seen it? Or friends asking
S1: you to explain what was going on felt particularly interesting.
S1: In the era of media fragmentation, where we don't tend
S1: to all like, gather on to one big thing. It
S1: definitely felt like the biggest rap beef in years, potentially
S1: bigger than the infamous feud between Jay-Z NAS in the
S1: early 2000. There's going to be ramifications for both of
S1: these guys and the direction of hip hop. There's plenty
S1: to discuss, but maybe we'll start with with kind of
S1: where this starts. And maybe before we do that, it
S1: could be interesting to discuss the respective positions of each
S1: of these rappers before they got into this feud. Thomas,
S1: I'm wondering if you can give us a kind of
S1: TLDR on kind of Drake as a rapper. Where does
S1: he sit and how does that compare to to Kendrick's
S1: profile and position in the hip hop world?
S3: Yeah for sure Mel. So TLDR is too long. Don't worry.
S2: I know nothing's ever too long for me to read.
S3: Um, so basically I guess like the scene is that
S3: you've got Drake, arguably the biggest kind of name in
S3: rap pop. He he's a hip hop guy, but really
S3: he's seen as the pop star of rap. Um, obviously,
S3: you know, enormously successful. Signed a $400 million complete global
S3: publishing deal with universal a few years ago, one of
S3: the biggest deals of all time called the LeBron deal
S3: of music. Um, you know, obviously we all know Drake songs.
S3: He feels clubs, he tops the Billboard 100 all the time.
S3: He wins lots of Grammys. He is kind of like
S3: the palatable hip hop star, but really, he's a pop star.
S3: Then you have Kendrick Lamar seen as many as, I guess,
S3: like the icon of pure hip hop, he is kind
S3: of the incumbent to Tupac Shakur. He's seen by purists
S3: as the true face of hip hop. Um, he's from
S3: Compton in Los Angeles, often seen as the spiritual heartland
S3: of hip hop. And, you know, he releases albums that are,
S3: you know, really kind of viewed in a more critical
S3: lens than anything Drake ever does. He's won a Pulitzer Prize, Mel,
S3: which is like a really important prize, basically. And yeah,
S3: so that kind of sets the scene in, in what
S3: I mean, does even though the feud has gone beyond ridiculous,
S3: it set the scene for a really perfect match up
S3: because it was like kind of like this good versus evil.
S3: You know, the good guy being Kendrick, who represents the
S3: pure art of hip hop, and then Drake being the
S3: sellout who represents, I guess, the problems of modern hip
S3: hop according to a lot of fans. So, yeah, that
S3: was kind of the state of things. But yeah, very
S3: much it was these two guys who represented two different
S3: schools of thought of where hip hop is at right now.
S1: And I think fair to say, Thomas, like you and
S1: I have listened to probably every record that either Drake
S1: or Kendrick have made and have a lot of time
S1: and respect for what they do.
S3: Yeah for sure. Like, I love both guys. I get
S3: a lot of enjoyment out of both of their work, um,
S3: for different, very different reasons. And, and that's why I
S3: think it was such a curious thing at the start
S3: to see these two guys go at it, who, you know,
S3: because in the early 20 tens, they were, you know,
S3: very friendly and they appeared on each other's tracks. Um,
S3: Poetic Justice, the Kendrick song and Kendrick also appeared on
S3: Drake's Take Care album. They toured together, so they were
S3: very much like friendly. But then as they both kind
S3: of went on their own trajectory and became very big
S3: in different kind of crowds, they've drifted further apart. And
S3: then now here we are now.
S1: Before we really dive into it all. I mean, where
S1: do you sit with each of these guys? Do you
S1: have a preference for the sounds of either Drake or Kendrick?
S2: No, I think I've always kind of taken the El
S2: Paso approach to it. I think both have both have
S2: like both can exist and we can be happy with
S2: both and grateful to have both. I've never really nailed
S2: my colours to any of their masks, and to be honest,
S2: I'm very glad I didn't and I haven't because I
S2: think this whole episode has been shameful and they are
S2: both shameful. And I mean, I am disappointed I oh,
S2: all right, there's the first one. Yeah, that's the wisest.
S1: Thing I've heard. Um, yeah.
S2: I mean, I know I'm, I'm trying hard not to
S2: think of this as a battle for relevancy. And I'm
S2: listening to you, Oz, and I'm hearing that you're telling
S2: me this is about the future of hip hop. But
S2: part of me is like, is this about the end
S2: of hip hop?
S1: Well, I mean, look, that is not a terrible question
S1: to to raise, because certainly that is one that a
S1: lot of critics, a lot of hip hop critics have
S1: been discussing, like this is maybe in some ways, you know,
S1: these two, two titans that reflect an era that doesn't
S1: really exist anymore, having one final throwdown, and we probably
S1: will never see anything like this again. I think I
S1: think there's a question there that that is worth discussing,
S1: but let's, um, let's sort of delve into how we
S1: got here for a minute. So as some have said,
S1: these guys, they were friends, they collaborated a few times.
S1: They sort of went into different lanes for the past
S1: nearly decade now, I'd say. But in October they came
S1: back into each other's orbits. Drake released a song called
S1: First Person Shooter, which included a verse from another big rapper, J. Cole.
S1: Uh J Cole referred to himself, Drake and Kendrick as
S1: the big three of rap.
UU: Me we the big three. Like we started the league.
UU: But right now I feel like Muhammad Ali.
S1: Didn't kind of feel that controversial at the time. It was,
S1: I guess, intended to be respectful and say, hey, we're
S1: all pretty cool. I like hanging out with you guys.
S1: Hip hop is great. Look at us here at the top. Uh,
S1: in March though, this year things got a bit more hectic,
S1: and we discussed this briefly a few weeks ago on
S1: the show when Atlanta rapper future dropped an album with
S1: producer Metro Boomin. Uh, I thought that album was like, fine.
S1: There was like a bit of a blow up at
S1: the time, but it didn't feel as dramatic as as
S1: it has since gotten. There was a track on that
S1: album called Like That featured Kendrick, where he took aim
S1: at Drake and J. Cole, explicitly referencing that line about
S1: them being the big three.
S8: Motherfuck the big three. It's just big me, nigga. Boom.
S1: Well, that was like definitely a dig at Drake and Cole.
S1: It didn't feel like crazy. This is like a big
S1: part of hip hop where people are just saying they're
S1: better than the others. It's part of the braggadocio culture
S1: of hip hop. Didn't really expect things to take the
S1: turn that they did, but, um, yeah, we'll get there.
S1: Probably the funniest twist, I think, in all of this
S1: is J. Cole took that very personally and released a
S1: seven minute long track criticizing Kendrick and then very, very
S1: quickly deleted it and said, I'm sorry, I want nothing
S1: to do with this. I don't know if he, like
S1: someone from the future, went back in time and told him, dude,
S1: you're just going to want to tap out of this
S1: one and just go stay at home and have a
S1: nice time. Watch um Shogun on Disney+.
S3: If anything, though, that has given us one of the
S3: best parts of this beef in that like the internet
S3: has had a field day with like, well, things have
S3: gotten increasingly vicious between Drake and Kendrick. There's all these
S3: memes of like, J. Cole right now, and it's someone
S3: like walking through a field of grass, like having the
S3: time of their lives. So yeah, I do wonder if J.
S3: Cole is a bit like, well, I'm so glad I
S3: tapped out and deleted my song. Or I personally, um,
S3: kind of think it's a little bit embarrassing for him.
S2: Oh, you think he should have stepped up?
S3: Well, I mean, like, he he he basically like he
S3: went in, he involved himself first and then like, he
S3: really like whatever you think of Drake, I think at
S3: least he like he committed. He committed, he committed. Whereas J.
S3: Cole like you know, sure he hasn't then had like
S3: all this dirty laundry of his aired. But I feel
S3: like that will stick with him forever in hip hop,
S3: which is famously like a reputation game. You know, he
S3: may have made a smart decision, but it's still a
S3: decision that paints him as someone who was not prepared
S3: to throw it out.
S2: It's so good. I love that he, like, lit the
S2: fire and then kind of spider monkey it out of there.
S1: Um, so Drake, uh, Drake decided to involve himself in this.
S1: In the middle of April, he released his first diss
S1: track aimed at Kendrick, push ups and tailor made freestyle.
S1: At this stage, I think, like fair to say that
S1: the disses were relatively tame. They mainly focused on. On
S1: Drake criticizing Kendrick's music. Drake listed a bunch of rappers.
S1: He thought that, uh, were better than Kendrick. He had
S1: a go at Kendrick for collaborating with. Taylorswift and other
S1: pop acts, which felt a bit dumb, like out of
S1: all the people in the hip hop world who can
S1: say you've gone too mainstream? Drake saying that to Kendrick. Uh,
S1: I don't think really, really stacked up, but it's what
S1: he did. And from there, things got way more personal.
S1: Kendrick releases a track called euphoria and 616 in LA,
S1: which accused Drake of having plastic surgery and most significantly,
S1: at this stage, uh, Kendrick called Drake a bad father.
S1: And we'll get back to why that's such a big deal.
S1: But that was probably the first real escalation in terms
S1: of this taking a vicious personal turn. The same day, uh,
S1: Drake drops a track called Family Matters where he's like, okay,
S1: you brought my son into this shit is going to
S1: get real now, uh, he says that one of Kendrick's
S1: children was actually fathered by his friend and colleague, Dave Frye,
S1: and he accused Lamar of being physically abusive towards his wife, Whitney.
S1: 20 minutes after that track came out, Kendrick releases Meet
S1: the Grimes. Probably like the darkest track in this whole beef.
S1: And I say that because even though it really set
S1: things to another level, no one really wants to talk
S1: about this one too much because of just how brutal
S1: it got. Kendrick directly addresses Drake's son, Adonis. He accuses
S1: Drake of hiding a second child, this time a daughter.
S1: He suggests that Drake is attracted to underage children and
S1: accuses him of running a sex trafficking ring out of
S1: his Toronto mansion. Yeah, as you can tell, quite, quite
S1: a severe escalation in all of this. Um, from where
S1: it started, from the big three.
S3: To very different to I'm better than you. Like it's
S3: a big jump to then. Like, also you're running a
S3: sex trafficking ring.
S1: The the next day, Kendrick follows up with another track,
S1: Not Like Us. And this is maybe the best song
S1: in the whole thing in terms of Just Like as
S1: a standalone track.
UU: Oh, I must have heard the beat. Ho de bo.
UU: Any rap nigga. He a free throw, man. Damn. Call
UU: the amber.
S8: Lamps. Tell em pre-pro nella nigga to the cross. He
S8: walk around like teaser. What's up with these jabroni ass
S8: niggas tryna see Compton. The industry can hate me. Fuck
S8: em all they momma. How many apps you really got?
S8: How many is too many options I'm finna pass on
S8: this body I'm John Stockton.
S1: There's sort of early numbers out on streaming that this
S1: could actually replace Taylor Swift as the number one track
S1: on Billboard this week has a really catchy beat by
S1: DJ mustard, and on it, Kendrick doubles down on calling
S1: Drake a pedophile who he literally this time says the
S1: word pedophile. He parodies Drake's music style, and it's kind
S1: of considered at this stage that this is the point
S1: where Kendrick has successfully shredded Drake's reputation. He's kind of
S1: releasing two tracks for every one track Drake is dropping,
S1: and he's also demonstrated his storytelling and his lyrical prowess,
S1: which is the kind of level that he's on compared
S1: to a more pop commercial pop star like Drake. The
S1: kind of brief code and all of this is a
S1: track called The Heart Part six, which is the final
S1: track so far from Drake. He denies the pedophile allegations,
S1: but doesn't really land any new blows on Kendrick. So
S1: kind of takes us to where we are now, which
S1: is a lot of personal, vicious rumors aimed at each other,
S1: a lot of collateral damage for the people around them
S1: in their lives, and a feeling that Kendrick has essentially won,
S1: quote unquote, whatever that means. This feud. There's a lot
S1: of stuff going on, a lot of stuff to talk about.
S1: I think maybe where we can start is like, why
S1: this drew so much attention? I think aside from how
S1: big and successful and popular both of these guys are,
S1: the rapid fire way these songs are being released, like
S1: having 4 or 5 tracks released over the course of
S1: a weekend. Like Thomas, you and I were messaging at
S1: certain points about a track and then you're like, another
S1: track has just been released. And then also how dark
S1: a turn these allegations took. It feels like those two
S1: things just sort of brought so many more people in
S1: the periphery of hip hop into this feud over the
S1: past week. Just talk me through why this became so big. Thomas.
S3: Well, yeah, I think it really was the frequency. You know,
S3: like in previous hip hop feuds, you would wait, like,
S3: you know, whether it's NAS and Jay-Z or Tupac and
S3: Biggie and like the 90s, you'd have to wait like
S3: ages for them to go off and like, film a video.
S3: And it'd be like months between, you know, like hit
S3: him up versus who shot you. Whereas this was basically
S3: contained to like a 48 hour period across the weekend.
S3: And so I do think for a little while, you know,
S3: this feud was kind of existing on the fringes, like
S3: people who were really into hip hop were following it.
S3: But when it kind of like seized the momentum across
S3: the weekend and it was just like track after track
S3: after track, I think it did kind of bleed into
S3: the mainstream and suddenly people were like, well, hold on,
S3: why are these two guys like, what is going on here?
S3: And then and then like that, coinciding with the fact
S3: it became so personal and these like really intense, you know,
S3: allegations were being traded back and forth. And you know,
S3: there's been so much chat and I think this really
S3: plays into it, you know, of all these people saying like, oh,
S3: this is why hip hop fans finally get why the
S3: Swifties are so excited. Because like, this Easter egg culture
S3: that we're in now, where all of these songs featured
S3: like allegations or kind of like winks and nods about
S3: things going on. And so you kind of like, tapped
S3: into people's desire to go on the internet and be like, what?
S3: What are they talking about? What is going on here?
S3: So suddenly you had this, like volume of content being like,
S3: flooded into the internet. At the same time, people are
S3: like investigating to try and figure out what is going
S3: on and who's really like, you know, got the right
S3: Intel and everything. So it just kind of like this
S3: confluence of factors, I think, seize people's imagination. I don't know,
S3: that was my experience. I don't know, Mel, as someone
S3: who may not be as typically tapped in to, you know,
S3: this space, were you across it across the weekend?
S2: I was across it. Um, I mean, I think people
S2: also like a train wreck, like, I don't know, I
S2: think what we're seeing here is just both of these
S2: people going off the rails, particularly, as you mentioned, the
S2: claims got more and more intense. And I don't know,
S2: like I was interested in it. And obviously, if you
S2: recognize all the Easter eggs, you get something different out
S2: of this because you're understanding a lot more of the references.
S2: But I don't know, I just think it became really gross.
S2: And I do think, at least in some parts of
S2: the internet, maybe among people who aren't as rusted on
S2: hip hop fans, there's like a feeling that this is
S2: kind of gross and disgusting to watch. Um, I don't know.
S2: Do you guys feel that at all? Like, I know
S2: you're excited by the the songs and the music and, like,
S2: I get the lyrics, the kind of funny and interesting
S2: and clever at times. And the songs are legit songs
S2: on their own. But do you think there's a level
S2: of grossness to this? And yeah.
S1: Look, I want to I do want to get into that.
S1: I think if it's okay, we'll put a pin in
S1: that element of it for a second, because I do
S1: think there's a bit around the context to this before
S1: we sort of unpack when things may be spun out
S1: of control a little bit, I think. I think, Thomas,
S1: your point about Taylor Swift is, is really interesting because
S1: in some ways, this is the first feud in a
S1: kind of post Taylor Swift social media Reddit true crime
S1: era where like, you know, rap genius now just called genius.
S1: The website's been around for a long time where you can, like,
S1: look up hip hop songs and people can provide annotations
S1: and things, but the level of analysis people were doing
S1: seemed out of control. Like the tracks 616 in LA,
S1: people are like oh 616. That's a reference to Father's
S1: Day in Canada. That's a reference to the date. The
S1: first season of euphoria, the TV show about high schoolers
S1: having sex that Drake executive produced, came out. That's also
S1: a reference to a biblical verse. It's also a reference
S1: to like. It could be a reference to one of
S1: these things. It could be a reference to three of
S1: them or none of them. I think there's an element
S1: of just people creating their own lore around this stuff
S1: that just grows and grows and grows and snowballs, and
S1: I think it's a really smart comparison to sort of
S1: put that in the frame. And as ludicrous as it sounds,
S1: the way that Swift has sort of trained music fans
S1: and others to think about music and lyrics. But one
S1: of the things I want to ask you, Thomas, is
S1: whether you think this was ever a real or fair
S1: rap battle feud. These are two very different kinds of rappers.
S1: You laid it out very well at the start. Drake
S1: is much more poppy, much more commercial. Kendrick is more
S1: known for his incredibly complex rhymes, his storytelling. That's the
S1: kind of thing that generally wins you a rap beef.
S1: Do you think he was always going to come out
S1: on top? Were there moments in which you thought Drake
S1: had the upper hand here?
S3: Uh, I mean, it's hard because there's so many quantifiers.
S3: I love Drake, as you know, obviously pre potentially. Sex offender. Drake, I.
S2: Believe you said to me that you're the Drake of journalism.
S3: I know you said that to about me.
S1: You were raised. You were raised in the clubs of
S1: Sydney in the late 20 tens. It makes sense. It
S1: makes sense. Exactly.
S3: Take care is a special album. No. But like, I
S3: think I did think that generally there was a. Consensus
S3: that Kendrick was winning from the start and he was
S3: always going to win. But when Drake dropped Family Matters
S3: on Saturday morning, I think people saw a slight momentum
S3: shift and I say slight because it lasted all of
S3: 20 minutes because it was it was a I think
S3: it was a pretty like hard hitting song. And he
S3: also recorded a video with it like, you know, really impressive,
S3: like production values. He kind of went all out, probably
S3: not anticipating that Kendrick would like, cut his legs out
S3: for two more.
S1: In the chamber, ready to go straight away.
S3: But I mean, my personal take is that obviously before
S3: things did get really problematic and weird and I was
S3: kind of like enjoying the drama of this beef for
S3: what it was like. There is this mentality in the
S3: hip hop world that, you know, the critical bar for
S3: someone like Drake is so much higher than what people
S3: expect for Kendrick. Like, you know, Drake literally raps in
S3: Family Matters. Like Kendrick just opened his mouth. Somebody hand
S3: him a Grammy right now. And that is like, there's
S3: a lot of truth in that joke. I think Kendrick
S3: can kind of like, do something or say anything that
S3: and people will just fall over themselves to say how
S3: amazing and smart he is. And so I again, before
S3: things got really weird, I was kind of impressed that
S3: Drake did decide to take this on, and I thought
S3: he was doing pretty well. And I thought when Family
S3: Matters came out, he kind of took the lead. You know,
S3: you've got Kendrick as this really earnest rapper who is
S3: so serious, and Drake is the absolute embodiment of internet culture.
S3: He responded to most of the tracks with just like
S3: funny memes on the internet that people thought were really good,
S3: and he was like, needling Kendrick. And and I said
S3: to you over the weekend, I was like, stepping out
S3: of this. It really is a funny thing to watch
S3: because Drake is the perfect foil for someone like Kendrick.
S3: He he's mean, he's gossipy, he's funny. He's just like,
S3: you know, snide remarks. Whereas Kendrick is like really, you know,
S3: self-serving and really serious. And so it made for a
S3: great feud. And I personally thought when Family Matters came out,
S3: I was like, oh, Drake actually is holding his own
S3: here against someone who people are going to be really
S3: quick to give the win anyway. Obviously. Kendrick then released
S3: two more tracks, especially Not Like Us. I think really
S3: like killed the feud off, and also took it into
S3: an area where even the kind of casual observers or
S3: the people really invested, like you and I, who were
S3: enjoying it for what it kind of was, it started
S3: to become harder to get hyped about it because it
S3: felt just like.
S1: It's like The Simpsons meme like, stop, he's already dead,
S1: you know?
S3: Yeah, exactly. But yeah, I generally think it was an
S3: interesting reflection for a while, at least that, you know,
S3: Drake was up against it from the get go. He
S3: was behind the eight ball. He is seen as this
S3: dumb pop rapper. And I was like, ah, I think
S3: he gets points for like going into this and holding
S3: his own. Yeah.
S1: I think that's why Mel and like, I promise you,
S1: we will talk about when things got weird, but I
S1: think I just wanted to set a little bit on
S1: the bits of the feud that sort of, you know,
S1: felt more reminiscent of, of rap feuds of old because
S1: this has been a part of hip hop for so long,
S1: and maybe for people really outside of the culture, watching
S1: two men in their like, late 30s trade barbs seems weird,
S1: but this has been in hip hop's DNA from day one,
S1: whether it is the East Coast, West Coast stuff, whether
S1: it was the gangsta rap versus conscious rap stuff in
S1: the 2000, the postcode wars in the drill scene in
S1: UK and Australia, a large part of rap has been
S1: people sort of like taking shots at one another, and
S1: it's always strayed a bit into like weird territory. Like
S1: in the 90s and 2000, there was a lot of homophobia,
S1: there was a lot of accusations of people sleeping with
S1: one another's wives. That's always been part of it. A
S1: lot of it, you know, that I think is the
S1: most interesting for for people like Thomas Knight probably is
S1: when they make fun of each other or take shots
S1: at each other for the music that they make. Like
S1: the other Drake line I thought was interesting was, you know,
S1: Drake said, Kendrick's always rapping like he's about to get
S1: the slaves freed. Kendrick hit back hard on that, but
S1: it's like, that's funny, memorable sort of lines that reflect
S1: where each other are. And it's sort of, if you
S1: take it in, uh, spirit of competition, it doesn't feel crazy. Like,
S1: you know, we had Scribble Jam, like hip hop tournaments.
S1: Rap battles were a place where rappers emerged and established
S1: their credentials. So evaluating it on that level for a bit,
S1: I think is is interesting. And then, yes, I think
S1: we do need to talk about whether it went a
S1: little bit kind of unhinged. But there's there's it feels
S1: like Thomas says more going on here as well. Like
S1: there is this long term animosity that a lot of
S1: rappers seem to have towards Drake, and a lot of
S1: that really came to the fore with some pretty explicit stuff,
S1: Kendrick was saying. No need to get into like all
S1: the details. There are some people who say that this
S1: goes back to 2002, when a rapper called Birdman didn't
S1: pay Pharrell for a beat. Believe it or not, there
S1: is like a family tree that shows how you go
S1: from Birdman on one hand to Drake and Pharrell to
S1: push a T and all this sort of stuff. So
S1: there's like lots of history here as well. But Drake
S1: has been the subject of big disses from big rappers
S1: for a while, like Meek Mill. Uh, Philly rapper had
S1: a go at him for using ghostwriters. Probably the biggest
S1: thing that happened before this feud was Pusha T revealing
S1: on his diss track Story of Adidon that Drake had
S1: a kid like that is how the world found out
S1: that Drake had a secret son. And for a rapper
S1: that really projected this sort of soft boy image, and
S1: always at the clubs waiting for a text back that
S1: seemed to really shift the narrative around him. I think
S1: the other part of this, and Kendrick addresses this head on,
S1: and I think probably not, none of us are the
S1: right people to talk about this in detail, but it
S1: is worth mentioning that Drake, unlike Kendrick, has a mixed
S1: race background. He has faced accusations of being like a
S1: culture vulture of leaning into blackness when it suits him
S1: without paying proper respect. Kendrick mentions that a number of
S1: times in these disses, he talks about the way Drake
S1: says the N word. He doesn't like the way he
S1: says the N word. He talks about when Drake goes
S1: to Atlanta, kind of like a modern capital of current
S1: southern hip hop, and goes there to get credibility and
S1: cultural clout by working with artists like Migos. There is
S1: a pretty intense racial dynamic to this as well. And
S1: people point out, well, J. Cole is also mixed race,
S1: but the response there is, well, J Cole doesn't seem
S1: to pick and choose as much like Drake has done
S1: this for a long time. When he went to London
S1: and started borrowing that sort of south London sound, and
S1: it's one of the first times someone's just laid it
S1: out super, super explicitly. So it does feel like there's
S1: this pent up anger from a lot of the hip
S1: hop scene to someone like Drake, who has become so
S1: commercial by being able to pick and choose what his
S1: kind of racial context is at different times. Is that
S1: fair to say?
S3: Yeah, I think so, because it's always been this thing,
S3: especially in the last like probably 20 years of these
S3: like fans who feel like they need to like, safeguard
S3: the true honor of hip hop and what it really
S3: means and what it's really supposed to be. But at
S3: the same time, that mentality has had to deal with
S3: the fact that hip hop and I guess, like the
S3: wider black culture, has become one of the most popular
S3: like genres of music in the whole world. And, you know,
S3: we've had so many conversations on this podcast about like,
S3: for instance, the rise of country music and how you
S3: know what, who gets to own, you know, a genre.
S3: And I think a lot of like, purist hip hop
S3: fans have struggled with the likes of Drake, who are
S3: kind of like bonafide pop stars, but also like rappers
S3: and hip hop. And and there has always been this, like, simmering,
S3: you know, tension around Drake. I feel like he spent
S3: a really long time at the start of his career
S3: battling it, and kind of like trying to prove to
S3: people that he wasn't just like this punchline rapper who
S3: could be made fun of. And for a long time
S3: he was like that sensitive, soft boy. And I feel
S3: like despite, you know, the constant accusations around that, he
S3: kind of just because of the sheer volume of his hits,
S3: he kind of, I guess, like managed to hold on
S3: to some kind of cred. But there was always that
S3: feeling around him that he wasn't legit. Um, you know,
S3: in the, in the true hip hop sense. And I
S3: still don't really know how I feel about like that
S3: mentality for the genre. Is it a good thing that
S3: we still, you know, in this day and age, believe
S3: that you should try and hold on to like, what
S3: the genre used to be 20, 30 years ago. Like
S3: things change, things develop. And, you know, we just have
S3: to accept that. But I do think this whole thing
S3: has been a flashpoint then for Kendrick to kind of like,
S3: speak into the echo chamber of all these people who
S3: already thought all this about Drake and be like, you know,
S3: you're mixed race. You say the N word when you shouldn't.
S3: You're basically a pop star who likes to rap occasionally,
S3: you know? And also you take a pic. Hahaha. But
S3: but yeah, like, it just kind of like lit a
S3: fuse that was already waiting to blow.
S2: I mean, I think as, as mentioned, those questions of
S2: authenticity have always been built into hip hop, and I
S2: think those questions always come to the fore when you
S2: see art that starts as quote unquote outsider art outside
S2: of the mainstream become part of the mainstream. So when
S2: you have kids who grew up, you know, on the streets,
S2: suddenly become billionaires, those questions of authenticity kind of are
S2: inherently going to arise, because what made the art form,
S2: what it is, is no longer there. So I think
S2: like the change is inevitable in many ways, but those
S2: questions have still kind of lingered. I don't know if
S2: there is, like you said, you don't know what you
S2: think is right or wrong, but maybe everyone's authentic is
S2: very different. You know what I mean?
S1: Yeah, I feel like I feel like the issue here
S1: is like, obviously there's space in this world for a
S1: Drake and a Kendrick to exist. And I kind of
S1: think Drake, I think it was a weird move for
S1: Drake to involve himself in a rap feud, like. Because.
S1: When you go like hip hop has evolved, it's changed.
S1: There's all these different forms of it now as well.
S1: But the format of a rap beef is like stripping
S1: all of that away and you're just going toe to
S1: toe bar for bar. Two people trying to prove how
S1: real and authentic and brutal they can be to one another.
S1: And in that context, a guy who grew up in
S1: the suburbs of Toronto became famous for being a child
S1: star on Degrassi Junior High, was never going to beat
S1: someone who grew up in Compton, who raps about seeing
S1: his first execution on the street when he was nine
S1: years old. Like that just there's no format of a
S1: rap feud where Drake would have won from that, and
S1: maybe it's like good on him for at least trying.
S1: But it's like you're in a different world. Be happy
S1: in that world like no one asks you to. To
S1: respond to the pretty soft initial Drake diss saying that
S1: he was, you know, it was big me, not big three.
S1: I find that to be a strange decision for Drake.
S1: Maybe he thought the payoff is I'll get a bunch
S1: of streams, but then the risk is, well, actually, you're
S1: in a weaker position than you were before you entered it.
S1: Because now everyone thinks you're an alleged sex criminal. It
S1: just doesn't seem to have worked out.
S3: Yeah, but, like, how hard is it to, you know,
S3: it's easy for us to sit here and say that.
S3: But this is a guy who, you know, is like,
S3: basically on top of the music world. As I said before,
S3: signed the largest publishing deal in history like a few
S3: years ago with universal. Everything and everyone around him is
S3: telling him he's probably the greatest rapper to have ever lived. Like,
S3: do you think he's got any perspective left to not
S3: have the ego to involve himself in this? Like, of
S3: course he doesn't like, you know, and again, I think,
S3: you know, probably he saw this as an opportunity to
S3: be like, wow, all the things I haven't conquered. Maybe
S3: I could take on the one guy that people really
S3: see as like above me right now in terms of
S3: credibility or, you know, just like bankability like Kendrick has
S3: always had that kind of mystique. And, you know, like
S3: I said, that almost like the Tupac Shakur thing around
S3: him where like, everyone just universally is like, well, Kendrick
S3: is the man. And, you know, yeah, I definitely see
S3: a reality where Drake is so high on his own
S3: success that, you know, there was never a world where
S3: he could have, like, not touched this.
S1: Let's talk about where things got really dark. And I
S1: think this is probably where a lot of people either
S1: switched off or really switched in, just because of how crazy,
S1: outlandish things were getting. Lots of women as collateral damage.
S1: Like that's that seems to be one of the clear,
S1: like big criticisms of this feud, even from hip hop
S1: writers in the States. Drake accusing Kendrick of abusing his wife.
S1: Kendrick saying that Drake has a daughter. Kendrick saying that
S1: he sleeps with underage children. Bizarrely, he didn't mention anyone
S1: by name, and then Drake went out of his way
S1: to mention Millie Bobby Brown, who is a she's obviously
S1: the actress from Stranger Things, and there's been all sorts
S1: of weird rumors around that after she, I think she
S1: was 15, said that she was texting Drake and he
S1: was giving her advice on dating. That was all very odd.
S1: That wasn't mentioned by name by Kendrick, but then Drake
S1: sort of brought her into it like this, did, then
S1: bring in a lot of people who clearly weren't choosing
S1: to be a part of it. I'll admit that, like
S1: while it was going on, I wasn't saying this is
S1: out of control. This is crazy. I just thought it
S1: was astonishing to see two of the biggest stars on
S1: the planet just say stuff and be willing to say
S1: it and double down and go after one another. And
S1: in some ways, I thought it was if you accept
S1: that a lot of rap and a lot of rap
S1: beefs are kind of fictionalized, they're heightened and you just
S1: sort of say exaggerated things to get attention. Didn't think
S1: in the moment it was that out of control. But
S1: when you look at it in the cold light of
S1: day and you're like, oh, the body count is piled
S1: up here, there's a lot of innocent parties to this
S1: who just, like, would feel really shit about being used
S1: in this particular way. I guess that's how you feel, Mel.
S1: Judging by what you were saying before, I really.
S2: I was invested and enjoyed this when the attacks were
S2: about each other's art, creativity, authenticity. But then all of
S2: a sudden, when these kind of wild claims got brought
S2: into it, it took a very dark turn. And on
S2: one part, on one hand, I'm like, it's good that
S2: being a kind of beating up your wife or having
S2: sex with underage girls is considered bad, and that they're
S2: saying it's a diss, like that's that's good on one level.
S2: But there is something that feels quite wrong in weaponizing these,
S2: these very serious kind of issues in, in a battle
S2: of this format. Like it's not really paying attention to
S2: the victims in any way, and it's just using these
S2: claims to kind of one up each other. I think
S2: that's what is uncomfortable about it reducing these kind of
S2: quite serious things to a disk, quote unquote.
S1: And a lot of people have pointed out, you know,
S1: for all of Drake's allegations about Kendrick being abusive, he
S1: is a very public supporter of Tory Lanez, who was
S1: convicted of shooting Megan Thee Stallion. Like, it's not like
S1: Drake has moral high ground here necessarily. I wonder whether
S1: part of it is also, you know, in an era
S1: without the internet where people just sort of say vague
S1: things about like, you're an abuser, you're this, you're that.
S1: It's sort of like it floats away and you don't
S1: really know who they're talking about. If it's a specific thing,
S1: is it a current thing? But as Thomas was saying earlier,
S1: now it's like this land of Easter eggs where you like, okay,
S1: this is a reference to this particular individual. I've resurfaced
S1: the TikTok video from 12 years ago. That's what this
S1: is about. So you can actually name specific people who
S1: rappers are maybe just intending to be metaphors or punchlines
S1: for a bigger point.
S2: Yeah. I mean I am interested to about I guess
S2: none of them are going to to the courts to
S2: sue for libel, but it is kind of incredible the
S2: things you can, um, you can put inverse.
S3: Yeah. I mean, it's it's gotten to a weird place.
S3: And I think, you know, one of the big criticisms
S3: has been like, you know, if if Kendrick has long
S3: suspected it or has information that Drake is running a
S3: sex trafficking ring in his Toronto mansion, like, why hasn't
S3: he brought this up earlier with the authorities and not
S3: saved it for a rap beef? And like, similar with Drake,
S3: you know, like if he has proof that Kendrick like
S3: it's obviously these things would never happen. But it's just
S3: like when you think about the seriousness of these allegations
S3: and they're only ever being brought up for the.
S2: Snitches get stitches. Tom.
S1: Yeah, it's interesting. I mean, like I think that's part
S1: of it. Also, it's like they wouldn't go to the police,
S1: but they want to sort of prove that they know
S1: these things and that they're better than the other person.
S1: But yeah, okay. Maybe for like a sex trafficking ring,
S1: if Kendrick really thinks there's like 114 year olds in
S1: Drake's mansion, maybe don't sit on that until 2024. You know, until.
S3: You happen to find yourself in a rap beef where
S3: it would make for a really convenient punchline. So I
S3: think that can, combined with the fact that it all
S3: just got so dark, like, I'm not like us, you know? Yeah,
S3: as I said, I think we've both been very, you know,
S3: keen observers and enjoying this for what it was. But
S3: everyone I know that was really into it found themselves
S3: increasingly like, it's like, how do you how are you
S3: supposed to respond to this? Like, I was genuinely really
S3: interested to hear each new track, but as they got
S3: more and more like, you know, there was more and
S3: more collateral damage piling up, I was like, oh, I
S3: don't know quite how to feel. At the end of
S3: the day, when you look at the reality of this feud, like,
S3: as I've said earlier, Drake belongs to Universal Music, and
S3: Kendrick in 2020 signed a publishing deal with Universal Music,
S3: so his music is distributed by them. So at the
S3: end of the day, both of these guys are making
S3: money for the same company, which renders the whole thing
S3: a little bit crazy. Like if you check the stream count,
S3: these songs are like rocketing up. These guys are making
S3: bank off this, even as all these people who didn't
S3: ask to be involved are now dragged into it. But really,
S3: it's universal music, this enormous conglomeration that's like the only
S3: one winning well.
S2: And both of them, and like we've talked about it
S2: quite a bit on the pod about hip hop's kind
S2: of how you often speak about how there's not much
S2: going on in hip hop that you find exciting, and
S2: all of a sudden, look at us, we're talking about
S2: hip hop. It's exciting. So yeah, I'm sorry.
S1: To all my country friends, I'm out.
S3: I'm out until Morgan Wallen, like, smashes Luke Combs in
S3: the head with a guitar.
S1: Well, the other the other rapper that's weighed in on
S1: this one who's also signed to universal is Vince Staples,
S1: who is sort of like the conscience of of our
S1: times right now. He he sort of made the point. Look,
S1: universal is making coin of all of this. Universal has
S1: collapsed all these labels that brought up that really cared
S1: about black music, black communities, they don't care about that anymore.
S1: Hip hop is struggling like this is a real thing.
S1: I think the other part of this, I think you're right, Mel, that,
S1: you know, hip hop is in a not very strong
S1: position in, in the US, at least right now. And
S1: a large part of that or a significant part of
S1: that has to do with the way that music labels
S1: are just not nurturing or supporting or encouraging talent in
S1: the way that they used to, partly because there aren't
S1: that many specific hip hop labels left. And Vince is saying,
S1: you know, hey, Taylor Swift's got clout. You know what
S1: she talks about? She talks about the plight of artists
S1: and how to get more money for artists. These guys
S1: have enormous power and money and profile, and they are
S1: not talking about any of these issues that impact the
S1: wider hip hop scene, which I thought was a really
S1: interesting and really sharp observation from a guy also signed
S1: to universal who sort of willing to call it out.
S2: Yeah, I mean, Vince, one of me, and maybe that
S2: will be the rapper I nail my colours to. Um,
S2: can I ask if you had someone from out like
S2: someone left field was to join this feud? It can
S2: be anyone. Who would you like to see kind of
S2: weigh in now at this stage?
S1: Well, one of the other funniest bits, as well as J.
S1: Cole sort of tapping out, was like the 48 hours
S1: that Kanye West was involved, where he released a remix
S1: of Like That and it opened with like, you know,
S1: k-dot I Got You. And it just was terrible. And
S1: I think it got deleted because he didn't. It wasn't
S1: a proper remix and future, and everyone was like, get
S1: out of this, dude, we don't need you involved in
S1: this right now.
S3: I already know my answer. And he actually did involve
S3: himself last night. Does anyone here remember your boy bangs?
S1: Yeah.
S3: Of course. Yeah. I then take you to the movie. Yeah, yeah.
S3: He released a diss track to Drake last night. Uh, so,
S3: I mean, if you remember bangs and his very odd
S3: viral hit take you to the movies, Shorty, uh, then
S3: the the diss track to Drake is in much the
S3: same nature. It's, uh, very hard to read and follow, but, yeah,
S3: I mean, it's it's bringing in everyone from all corners
S3: of hip hop. But perhaps most surprisingly, this artist actually
S3: did involve himself. Someone I never would have thought been
S3: mentioned in the same breath. But Macklemore.
S1: Yeah, this was so interesting because Macklemore has already sort
S1: of been weirdly involved in Drake Kendrick's life. He won
S1: the Grammy like ten years ago. He beat good kid
S1: Mad City, he beat a Drake record as well, and
S1: he famously shared a screenshot of a text he sent
S1: to Kendrick saying, I'm sorry, you deserve to win. And
S1: he released this really intense song, uh, this week about the, uh,
S1: not just Israel's invasion of Gaza and the amount of,
S1: you know, death and destruction. In Gaza, but also really
S1: blew up at the US government, told everyone he wasn't
S1: going to vote for Biden, defended the student protests, discussed
S1: Israel being an apartheid state. He went really, really hard
S1: on this issue and also kind of took a pretty,
S1: you know, it was a quick shot, but it was
S1: a shot at both Drake and Kendrick, essentially. Like, you
S1: guys are wasting time arguing with each other over nothing real. Meanwhile,
S1: there's people dying and there's student protests happening in America
S1: right now where police are, you know, cracking down on
S1: freedom of speech.
S9: What happens to the artists, what you gotta say, if
S9: I was on a label, you could drop me today.
S9: I'd be fine with it. Cause the heart fed my page.
S9: I want a cease fire. A response from Drake.
S1: What you're willing to risk felt like a pretty hard
S1: pivot from Macklemore. Not necessarily what I expected, but people
S1: have pointed out that he's done this for a while.
S1: This is kind of what modern Macklemore does. He talks
S1: about white privilege and politics. I was sort of out
S1: of the loop on his pivot, but he really injected
S1: himself into this one.
S3: Yeah, I mean, the Macklemore thing was a really weird
S3: addition to an increasingly strange story. But yeah, I think
S3: what's most curious now is that basically, I guess this
S3: is the longest amount of breath we've had since the weekend.
S3: Like Drake released The Heart Part six on Monday morning,
S3: and I think pretty much everyone saw it as a,
S3: you know, quiet retreat. Um, he kind of tried to
S3: be like, okay, whatever, man, I'm not doing this with
S3: you anymore. And then since then, we haven't heard anything
S3: from either artist outside of, you know, this alleged shooting
S3: at Drake's house on Wednesday morning. So I guess most
S3: people are, I think, accepting and kind of secretly hoping
S3: that the feud is over. I don't know if it
S3: needs any more chapters. And I think, you know, knowing
S3: Kendrick as I do, that I can't imagine him needing
S3: to weigh back in now. Like it seems pretty obvious
S3: that he, you know, like, rapped and exposed Drake into submission.
S3: And I think it's for the best for everyone involved,
S3: including the audience. And everyone mentioned that this feud is
S3: over now. It was definitely a bizarre and interesting and
S3: revealing moment in hip hop history, and no doubt we'll
S3: continue to kind of like dissect it. But yeah, I
S3: personally would be so shocked if, you know, like in
S3: two days time you text me and you're like, oh
S3: my God. Kendrick just dropped again.
S1: I agree, and I actually think that maybe Macklemore has helped.
S1: Just like put the nail in the coffin on this
S1: one as well. I think, you know, he sort of
S1: just said, look, guys, this thing's going on. He's sort of,
S1: you know, I think mainstream commercial hip hop in America
S1: has been missing that political edge for a while. I mean,
S1: Tupac was so good at being able to throw shots
S1: at East Coast rappers and then also talk about what
S1: was going on in the world and, and American imperialism
S1: and whatever. And, and Macklemore of all people saying, all right, guys,
S1: let's talk about real shit again. Could be the coda
S1: on this one and kind of just usher in a
S1: new conversation about many different and perhaps less personal, uh,
S1: topics that these guys were trading shots on. It's a
S1: bit of a heel turn. This next topic. Not really
S1: an easy way to segue from Kendrick, Drake and Macklemore
S1: to Dua Lipa. I guess it's music related, but on
S1: the other end of the spectrum was one of the
S1: most highly anticipated releases this year. Dua Lipa's Radical Optimism,
S1: the follow up to her very fun and critically acclaimed
S1: 2020 album Future Nostalgia. The first single on Radical Optimism
S1: was Houdini.
UU: Tell me all the ways you need me. I'm not
UU: here for long. Catch me or I go, Whodini, I
UU: come and I go. Prove you've got the right to
UU: please me. Everybody knows. Catch me or I go Whodini
UU: time is passing like a solid.
S1: Produced by Australia's own Kevin Parker, Tame Impala. I didn't
S1: love this track, but then when the album came out
S1: last week and I listened to it a few times,
S1: it's maybe the best song on it, which I think
S1: sums up how I feel about this album. Very flat
S1: record to me. I think, especially following the kind of
S1: disco club vibes of Future Nostalgia had so many bangers
S1: levitating physical, I don't even know if this one like
S1: is a full, proper pop album. There's a couple of
S1: pop songs, but do you guys remember adult contemporary where
S1: you're just like, this is a person making noise, and
S1: it's sort of nice to have in the background, but
S1: it's not doing or saying much. Well, I know that
S1: you were hyped for this one, but how do you
S1: feel about it?
S2: I was so hyped for this, and there was a
S2: lot of kind of chat around it because from, um,
S2: Dance the Night Dua's song for Barbie, there was the
S2: very symbolic shattering of the disco ball at the end
S2: of that, which was meant to represent the end of
S2: Dua's disco era. And in the lead up to the
S2: release of this album, she'd kind of been making all
S2: these claims about what had inspired the album Primal Scream,
S2: Brit pop. Um, it was kind of low slung British
S2: source material. So it kind of she was flagging that
S2: this was going to be a reinvention. And then when
S2: I listened to to this album, I just don't think
S2: it's a reinvention at all. There is a lot of
S2: classic Dua on there, but without the kind of sparkle
S2: of future nostalgia. But it's not a complete pivot. I
S2: don't think for her and I agree with you. I
S2: was like, actually, really like the first three songs of
S2: this album, end of an era, Whodini, you mentioned, and
S2: Training Season, and then it kind of goes into this
S2: pivot to a more muffled sound, a very kind of
S2: Tame Impala. Kevin Parker, who produced this record, sound in
S2: songs like Kind of French Exit and These Walls. They're
S2: shades of Dua again in all of them, but they're
S2: a lot more kind of drawn back. And then at
S2: the end of this album, there are these real like
S2: Eurovision bangers, these like kind of really big ballady sounds,
S2: which some people love. But I much prefer Dua when
S2: she's like kind of when it's all in the vocals
S2: and it's all in that, that really vibrant dance beat.
S2: So yeah, I thought there were highs and lows on
S2: this album, but kind of agree with you that it
S2: wasn't the it wasn't the amazing sparkly record that I
S2: kind of thought might be coming our way.
S3: Yeah, I didn't really vibe at all. Um, our colleague
S3: Rob Moran was so excited for this one, and he
S3: just looked so crestfallen after having listened to it, because,
S3: I mean, this is this was the big year for like,
S3: all these, like, massive pop albums that were previewed it.
S1: I think at the start of the.
S3: Year, I know, and this just feels like such a
S3: limp like addition to that, you know, list. Yeah, like
S3: I feel like Dua Lipa has been kind of untouchable
S3: for a while, and then it just makes you wonder,
S3: like when you when you like in the studio, all
S3: these different people and you listen through this album, how
S3: is no one sitting there being like, I don't know,
S3: maybe they must think it's all really good, I don't know.
S1: Yeah, there's some chat that, like her dad who's taken
S1: over her management, maybe isn't sort of playing the the
S1: best role he should be. I agree 100% on this.
S1: Like there should be some label ainars in here being like, okay,
S1: you want to do some of this? That's cool. But like,
S1: where are the hits? Like the point of a pop
S1: record is you need some hits and this just doesn't have.
S3: Yeah. And that's why you need to bring in Tedros.
S2: Tedros and that hit factory.
S1: Um, talking about hits though, there is like a hit
S1: I'm really enjoying right now. Uh, Sabrina Carpenter, who we
S1: all saw when she opened for Taylor Swift, her song espresso.
UU: Now, here's the thing about me every night. Oh, is
UU: it that sweet? Like a song. So you can't sleep,
UU: baby I know that's that means so. Nintendo. So you
UU: can see.
S1: This feels like the song of northern Hemisphere summer. People
S1: are loving this song. I'm loving this song. Uh, it's
S1: very fun. It feels like it should be on on
S1: a duo record. You guys, you guys that that me
S1: espresso your vibe in it.
S2: Man, I love it. I've listened to that song though,
S2: so many times. And still I can only be like, no, no, no.
S2: Espresso like that is the only line. I can still
S2: switch it up like.
S1: Nintendo.
S2: You know, I mean, Nintendo Switch.
S1: Yeah. There's also like, I was staying out late because
S1: I'm a singer or something like that. It's very funny.
S1: It's like very self-aware, funny lyrics and very catchy at
S1: the same time.
S2: You know, like, don't give a fuck era. I really,
S2: I love Sabrina Carpenter. I liked nonsense too. I know
S2: a lot of people don't didn't really get her vibe,
S2: but I think she's very funny and interesting and is
S2: kind of more edgy and risky in her lyrics and
S2: her performance. Um, than probably Taylor is.
S1: Yeah, I think she could. She could be on the
S1: cusp of blowing up. She does this really fun thing
S1: on her tour where she sort of adds an extra
S1: verse at the end of her set to reference where
S1: she's at, and sometimes it's pretty saucy. It's cool. I
S1: think she's fun and interesting and the song is really catchy.
S1: Are you are you bumping this one time itch?
S3: Yeah, I really like it. I like Sabrina too. I
S3: feel like she's like having a bit of a moment. Um,
S3: so she was also at the Met Gala yesterday along
S3: with Barry? Um, yeah. Barry.
S1: Partner, if.
S3: People don't know. Yes. Correct. Um, yeah, I think she's
S3: she's good. You can just see like, the trajectory she's on.
S3: Obviously she toured here with Taylor Swift recently. Um, sadly,
S3: I did not get to see her because her set
S3: was rained out.
S1: Oh, true.
S3: Electrical storm. But everyone, everyone that I had spoken to,
S3: all the Swifties who had gone, you know, like, every
S3: single night were like, you know, raving about Sabrina Carpenter, um,
S3: as much as they were Taylor. So I feel like
S3: she's she's really on one. She's about to or just
S3: is the musical act on SNL.
S2: And her Coachella set went kind of off as well.
S2: People raved about it. Barry was there watching. Yeah, she's.
S3: Collecting like all the pop culture rings you need when
S3: you're on the way to being like, the next big thing. Um,
S3: and then obviously she will enter into a feud with
S3: Olivia Rodrigo that we will then talk about. Um, I
S3: think she has, hasn't she? Yeah. But like a proper
S3: public one where Olivia Rodrigo is like, I don't know,
S3: revealed to be. Oh, I see you were alien or Drake.
S1: Kendrick thing, and I stepped on it. I'm sorry, I'm sorry,
S1: but I think they sort of threw, um, barbs at
S1: each other over driver's license. Is that is that what happened?
S3: Yeah. They did. Um, because I think there was also
S3: an accusation of a shared boyfriend, uh, or something.
S1: That's pretty hectic. That is. We're talking Drake. Kendrick level. Mel,
S1: where were you when that was going on? Not complaining
S1: about collateral damage.
S2: Exactly. You guys.
S3: It really is the winter of discontent.
S2: Oh, nice. Thank you. I'm glad you've stooped to my request.
S1: All right, movie time. Guys. There's been a lot of
S1: discourse in entertainment news around the release of the new
S1: Ryan Gosling Emily Blunt action comedy, The Fall Guy, which
S1: was filmed in Sydney, Australia.
S10: That's me. Colt Seavers. And this is my hero's journey.
S11: Can we just start from the top?
S10: What do you want it? Okay. I'm not the hero
S10: of this story. I'm just a stunt guy trying to
S10: look cool in front of the director of this movie.
S10: That's her.
S1: It's been a slow start to the year in terms
S1: of box office numbers. And I think after the massive
S1: Bodenheimer induced high of 2023, studios and cinema chains are
S1: kind of really desperately craving some big releases to get
S1: people back into the movies. This was an expensive film.
S1: It cost 150 million USD to make. It's got big stars,
S1: big action set pieces in it, so there's a bit
S1: riding on it. We'll talk about its performance and what
S1: that might mean for Hollywood in a minute, but let's
S1: talk about the film and kind of interested to get
S1: your takes on it as well. It's a loose adaptation
S1: of the 1980s TV series of the same name starring
S1: Lee majors. I never watched it. I just know Lee
S1: majors because he was in a Simpsons episode. I think
S1: Marge had a big crush on him. Um, the movie's
S1: directed by David Leitch. He's a former stuntman himself. He
S1: co-directed the first John Wick film, directed Deadpool two, the
S1: Fast and Furious spin off Hobbs and Shaw, and most recently,
S1: the Brad Pitt starring Bullet Train. This film really is
S1: a love letter to stunt performers. It stars Ryan Gosling
S1: as a stuntman who, after quitting his job after getting
S1: into an accident on set, is convinced to get back
S1: in the game, working on his ex-girlfriend's directorial debut action
S1: film that's played by Emily Blunt. The movie's filming in Australia.
S1: When he gets there, he finds himself involved in a
S1: conspiracy surrounding the disappearance of the film's lead actor, Aaron Taylor-Johnson.
S1: The film also stars Hannah Waddingham from Ted Lasso, Teresa Palmer,
S1: Stephanie Sue and Winston Duke. The movie is basically a
S1: love story between Gosling and Blunt, with a lot of action,
S1: a lot of stunts, a lot of fun references to
S1: cinema and pop culture in there. I would describe it
S1: as like, thoroughly entertaining, pretty fun, but not like a
S1: transcendent movie. I thought Gosling in particular was really great,
S1: and Emily Blunt was good, but her character does not
S1: have a lot to do or much depth in this film.
S1: I had a good time in the cinema, but I
S1: don't know if I describe it as a must watch. Uh,
S1: what did you guys make of The Fall Guy?
S2: I did not have a good time in the cinema. Oh, really?
S2: I didn't I really wanted to like it. In fact,
S2: I sat down next to Thomas and I said to him,
S2: I'm really happy. Like I was in the right headspace
S2: to watch it. And I kept thinking about this. This
S2: one time I was going to my friend's house and
S2: we all had to bring a dessert, and I decided
S2: I would make an Eton mess, which is just like
S2: a strategically, it looks like a mess, but it isn't
S2: a mess and it tastes delicious. And when I ended
S2: up making it, it turned out just a mess. Like,
S2: look like something that someone had eaten and then regurgitated.
S2: And I kind of felt like watching this. I was like,
S2: someone thought this would be a good idea, but it
S2: just turned out to be a bit of a mess. I,
S2: I didn't enjoy it. There was too much action. Like,
S2: I understand it's a love letter to to to stunts,
S2: but there was so much spectacle and no story. Gosling's
S2: character was confusing and seemed undercooked. Um, to be honest,
S2: I was probably most alert during the credits when they
S2: were showing the real footage of the stunts being made,
S2: and I and I actually thought, wow, I think I
S2: would actually prefer to watch a documentary about making this
S2: film than this film. I just did not enjoy it.
S3: I kind of feel the same. I actually think, like,
S3: I'm really surprised you said you thought Gosling was good.
S3: I thought he was bad, like, I love I mean,
S3: we all love the Gosling, and he's kind of like
S3: on a bit of a heater off the back of
S3: Barbie and this kind of comedy era. And I just
S3: thought he was like the first 15 minutes especially. I
S3: was like, wow. He is like not making me laugh.
S3: And this is someone who I think normally can take
S3: a really poor script. And just with his like Gosling
S3: delivery can make it funny. And so I don't know
S3: if it's an indictment on the script, but I thought
S3: both he my biggest issue with the film was that
S3: the chemistry between the two leads, Ryan Gosling and Emily Blunt, was, like,
S3: near non-existent for me. I thought he was in the
S3: scene doing his Gosling schtick, and she was doing her
S3: Emily Blunt schtick of like, talking really fast and seeming distracted.
S3: But they weren't like, that's like two people acting in
S3: a scene, like of their own, not together. And I
S3: just thought they didn't gel. And then on top of that,
S3: I thought that the story was like a little bit flimsy.
S3: It was hard to kind of like, get involved. I
S3: really went into this being like, this will be a fun,
S3: kind of like Netflix movie, and it'll be like funny
S3: and a good time. And instead I just, like, found
S3: myself really drifting. Um, and the.
S2: Jokes just didn't land in our cinema. Right. Which is
S2: kind of like, I thought, because David Leitch did Bullet Train,
S2: which I thought was very funny, but the jokes in
S2: our cinema didn't land like it was just really quite
S2: awkward watching one. How busy was another?
S3: Not very busy. There's only a few people.
S2: None of us laughed.
S3: Yeah, I would say though, and like, you know, I
S3: do have to caveat all this with like a friend
S3: of mine is in the film and I actually thought
S3: he was great. Uh, his name is Adam Dunn, Australian actor,
S3: played Nigel, uh, who was singing, you know, Genie in
S3: a bottle during the karaoke.
S1: He's great in the movie.
S3: Yeah, he was really good. And, you know, like I'm
S3: saying all this, I know he listens to the podcast.
S3: We had a, you know, very honest chat on text.
S3: After the movie where he asked me what I thought.
S3: He asked me to send a thumbs up or thumbs down,
S3: which is a reference from the film. And I said
S3: all of this to him, and, you know, he had
S3: his own thoughts and we had a really interesting chat.
S3: And I said to him that I didn't believe the
S3: chemistry between the two leads, and he was really surprised
S3: by that because he saw how hard they were working
S3: on the film. So, you know, it's an interesting, I guess,
S3: perspective to have. But yeah, I went in so prepared
S3: to love this film because it had so many elements
S3: that I was excited for, including the fact it was
S3: shot here in beautiful Sydney. And yeah, I just for
S3: some reason, like it didn't work for me. Like, I
S3: loved The Gray Man. Like I'm so here for these
S3: kind of like dumb Netflix films. And this one just felt,
S3: aside from the fact it was 45 minutes too long,
S3: it just didn't seem to work. It was having discussed
S3: so much about the mid era, this was like mid
S3: to a tee for me.
S1: I reckon you guys are in the wrong cinema with
S1: the wrong people like I thought. I thought that the
S1: jokes were funny. I thought Ryan Gosling was funny. I
S1: thought the chemistry was great. I thought that when Ryan
S1: Gosling is crying to Taylor Swift's All Too Well, uh,
S1: that that was great. It was very moving.
S3: But even that for me felt like such a, like,
S3: heavy handed, like, oh, there's been so many funny, like,
S3: let's have a, you know, like guy listening to Taylor
S3: Swift and being emotional, seeing let's just like wedge it
S3: in there. It felt so forced to me. Yeah.
S2: I thought that was ironic. I thought they were making
S2: fun of scenes of men.
S7: I reckon you were in the Taylor Swift movie.
S1: You're in the wrong gear for this movie.
S7: We were in the wrong. We're gonna be. We were happy.
S3: No. Had a, uh, like a what did you have, like,
S3: some kind of rap?
S7: Yeah, I had.
S2: Like, I had food for once in the cinema, we.
S2: I cannot tell you how ready we were to love
S2: this film.
S1: All right, let's agree to disagree on this one. And
S1: maybe you have more in common with the regular folk
S1: who don't seem to be rushing to see this, which
S1: is freaking, uh, some distributors and studios and movie chains out.
S1: I think they were expecting this movie, which generally has
S1: gotten pretty good reviews, like, it's sort of like three
S1: and a half to four stars around the place. It's
S1: doing pretty well on Rotten Tomatoes. People think it's the
S1: kind of movie that should be bringing people to cinemas,
S1: and it's not. And I wonder whether that's because, like
S1: I said at the start, I had a fun time,
S1: but I'm not racing out of the cinema and saying,
S1: you've all got to go see the fall guy. I
S1: think sometimes it's the problem with Rotten Tomatoes, where it's 90% positive,
S1: but if every positive review is like three stars, that
S1: doesn't get you excited enough to actually be an enthused
S1: ambassador for this film. I also wonder, and Thomas, you
S1: mentioned the Gray Man. My friend Amy messaged me and
S1: was like, oh, you saw the fall guy? I didn't,
S1: I see that isn't that free guy? I've seen that
S1: one before, which is a different movie with Ryan Reynolds.
S1: And there's also The Nice Guys. There's a lot of
S1: Guy films around featuring Ryan's, and I wonder whether that
S1: is just confusing people. As dumb as that sounds, or
S1: whether people are like, cool, I'll wait for this movie
S1: to come out on streaming. It looks like mid tier entertainment.
S1: If I don't have to go out to the movies
S1: and pay $25 for it, I'll have a good time.
S3: Well, Mel, you did say to me, I wonder if
S3: I would have liked this film better if I watched
S3: it on a Saturday night when it popped up on
S3: Netflix and I'd had, like, a couple of glasses of
S3: wine and like, I just popped it on and this, like,
S3: it was just a Saturday night, like.
S2: Yeah, if I could talk all the way through it. Yeah, yeah.
S2: Like potentially I think.
S1: I think potentially, I think maybe it will have a
S1: big streaming run as well. But yeah, I wonder what
S1: it means if it doesn't make its box office money back.
S1: That's that's not a great result for this film or
S1: for Hollywood making big movies. Uh, can I ask you
S1: guys about, um, Sidney on film?
S3: Sweeney.
S1: Kind of. So we had anyone but you, which was
S1: obviously filmed and set in Sydney and a lot of
S1: gratuitous shots of Sydney Harbour Bridge and the opera House
S1: and Sydney Harbour. And then this movie was filmed basically
S1: the same place. Like, I was wondering if when Ryan
S1: Gosling is on a boat in Sydney Harbour, he was
S1: going to run into Glen Powell and Sydney Sweeney on
S1: their boat. Maybe it's just because the proximity of these
S1: two movies are really close together and they've both, you know,
S1: gotten a lot of media attention. I love Sydney, I
S1: love seeing Sydney on film. I feel like they could
S1: do a bit more than just show us the opera
S1: House and the Harbour Bridge and 2 or 3 blocks
S1: in the city around Martin Place. So this is a big, beautiful, interesting, diverse,
S1: fun city when you're in New York, not everything needs
S1: to be in Manhattan. The Empire State Building can go
S1: to Brooklyn. Not everything in London needs to be around
S1: the Big Ben, you know? Like, is there a bit
S1: of cringe here with the way that Sydney is just
S1: the city and the harbour?
S3: Yeah, I think so. It was like, I know everyone
S3: was excited to see the, you know, the Harbour Bridge
S3: stunt with Ryan Gosling. And we'd all had a bit
S3: of context because like, you know, all the news cameras
S3: were hovering above the Harbour Bridge while he filmed it.
S3: And but I do find it a bit boring. And
S3: like Sydney, it may as well have been any other
S3: city aside from the set piece on the Harbour Bridge,
S3: and seeing the opera house like it just felt like,
S3: you know, it could have been Toronto or New York
S3: or Chicago or wherever, like, I don't know. Yeah, I agree,
S3: I'm like, it'd be so nice to see them like
S3: in like a national park or like in the western
S3: suburbs or somewhere that was like still Sydney and recognizable
S3: as Sydney, but just not, you know, the two biggest
S3: icons that we're known for. Like, I'm surprised they didn't
S3: go down to Bondi Beach.
S2: Yeah. I mean, I'd be yeah. I mean, that's a
S2: good point. I'd. Be curious to see when the New
S2: South Wales Government and Federal government cough up the funding
S2: to help bring these international films here. What the terms
S2: and conditions?
S7: I'm sure I'm.
S1: 100% sure that the only reason there are so many
S1: shots of the opera house is because the state government,
S1: which gives a lot of money for these movies, have
S1: said that's what we want. And I kind of think
S1: maybe it's not the director's fault as much as it's
S1: like the government being like, let's just turn every movie
S1: into an ad for Sydney. But we're so, I guess,
S1: scared of telling people that Sydney is more than the
S1: bridge or the opera House. We don't want them to
S1: go west or south or wherever.
S3: That's why, again, thanks to Taylor Swift for bringing us
S3: to the attention of Sydney Zoo in the western suburbs.
S3: I mean, Taylor, like, the more we talk about it,
S3: the more I'm impressed. She's a she's a trailblazer.
S1: Oh, they could go to that. What's that sandwich shop.
S1: You like Thomas in your part of town?
S3: Costas? Yeah. They could have gone to Costas. They not have.
S1: Had a sandwich at Costas.
S3: That's iconic. I mean, even like the like, there's, like,
S3: Chifley Tower was in it, but yeah, otherwise it was like, it's,
S3: you know, hardly even worth, like, getting excited about Sydney
S3: being in the film. Yeah, I don't know. Uh, I
S3: think there are lots of other better Sydney films, if
S3: that's what you're after.
S1: All right, let's wrap up with Impress Your Friends. When
S1: we share something we watched, read, listened to, or just
S1: enjoyed consuming in the past week, do you want to
S1: go first summer's.
S3: Uh, my one is TV series just to mix things up. Uh,
S3: it's out today on Netflix. Uh, it's called Bodkin. Um,
S3: actually a weird kind of fall guy tie in in
S3: that the series is produced and directed by Nash Edgerton,
S3: who is a stuntman, uh, as well as being Joel
S3: Edgerton's brother, who also makes a cameo in The Fall Guy. Uh,
S3: but he's also a director. He directs this series. Uh,
S3: it's very funny. It's a dark comedy, um, in the
S3: kind of that vein of Irish TV that we all
S3: know and love. And, uh, you guys will enjoy this.
S3: It's about a group of three podcasters.
S1: Is it really?
S3: It really is, uh, who come together. They work at
S3: the Guardian. Bu but, um, they, they come together and, uh,
S3: basically one of the, the, you know, lead journalists, uh,
S3: she's been, you know, working on a big story in
S3: London and she gets exiled to her hometown in Ireland, um,
S3: to work on this series with two other podcasters. Um, about, like,
S3: you know, a group of people that went missing 20
S3: years ago. They slowly find themselves kind of, like, wrapped
S3: up in, you know, the intricacies and feuds of the
S3: small town. So it's that type of setup, but very funny.
S3: And I think, you know, lots of people buy into
S3: the podcast culture. And this has lots of like, uh,
S3: moments they will enjoy about how serious, you know, true
S3: crime podcasters take themselves. So yeah, I thought it was
S3: really funny. Um, each episode is 45 minutes. It's a
S3: Netflix drop, so everything's there available for you to watch.
S3: That one's out today. And yeah, worth your time.
S1: The amount of movies and TV shows that are like
S1: featuring podcasters as characters in the new Godzilla movie. Again,
S1: Brian Tyree Henry is a podcaster. It's very strange. I
S1: really wonder why that.
S7: I mean, it's a sexy medium, right? Well, podcast.
S3: Is the new like hard nosed journalists of like 90s films.
S1: Agreed. Um, Mel, what have you got?
S2: Well, after everyone has listened to Kendrick and Drake and
S2: you've kind of been through their whole kind of feud,
S2: this is a nice one to put in your earphones.
S2: I've been really vibing Jessica Pratt's here in the Pitch,
S2: which is her new album. It's only nine songs, 27 minutes.
S2: There's something light and sunny to them and almost airless,
S2: as well as this kind of sense of sadness on them.
S2: I mean, it does kind of feel like maybe stepping
S2: into the garden, there's this kind of fantasy sound. I
S2: don't know, it's just one of those albums that I
S2: keep finding myself listening to. Some albums. I'm kind of like,
S2: you've got to be in the right mood, and you've
S2: got to kind of be in the right state of mind.
S2: I've found that a lot with the Beyonce album, like
S2: I'm not necessarily gravitating towards putting it on, but this
S2: one just seems to be one that I keep returning to.
S2: So it's, um, a really nice kind of folk, retro
S2: pop classic sound that I would, um, highly recommend if
S2: you need to come down from all the kind of
S2: highs of the rap battle.
S1: You put me onto this one. Uh, yesterday, Mel and
S1: I have been listening to it. I really like it.
S1: It's a great recommendation. Very, very good album.
S2: Oh, good. I can imagine you in your new home
S2: putting it on.
S1: Um, I got one that I'm surprised neither of you mentioned.
S1: Hack season three is back.
S7: Yes, Jane.
S1: Smart is back. It's on Stan, owned by nine. The
S1: people who pay us to make this podcast, the Sydney
S1: Morning Herald and The Age is probably more convoluted than
S1: it needed to be. Um. It's great. There's not much
S1: more I need to say about this show. I really,
S1: really love hacks. I've been waiting for the new season
S1: for a while. Go watch it. Very fun.
S3: It is very funny, very excited. But I did text
S3: you last night. That should not be a weekly drop.
S3: That show like the first two episodes were. They dropped
S3: two at the start and now it's weekly from like
S3: moving forward. Annoying. Doesn't need to be weekly. Drop the
S3: episodes like 30 minutes. It's a comedy that could be
S3: like bang! Just like, give us it, all of it.
S3: And you can watch it at your own leisure like
S3: no one is. Is anyone really, like, hyped on a
S3: Tuesday night to get the new hacks and then watch
S3: it for 30 minutes that you want to watch 3
S3: or 4?
S1: It does feel like the binge is reverse things that
S1: should not be. Binges are. And the other way around,
S1: someone's got to sort this out. They should put us
S1: in charge of just every TV show we come in
S1: and we're like, doesn't matter what platform it's on. We'll
S1: tell you the release format for this one.
S3: Yeah. Once we finished solving crimes in a tiny Irish town.
S1: Guys. Great chat. Take care. See you next week. Bye.
S1: This episode of The Drop was produced by Kai Wong.
S1: If you enjoyed listening to today's episode of The Drop,
S1: make sure to follow us in your favorite podcast app.
S1: Leave us a review or better yet, share it with
S1: a friend! I'm Usman Farooqi, see you next week.