WEBVTT - Who really won the Kendrick-Drake feud? Plus, The Fall Guy debate 0:00:07.880 --> 0:00:11.090 Hey, I'm Osman Faruqi and this is the drop a 0:00:11.090 --> 0:00:13.340 culture show from the Sydney Morning Herald and The Age, 0:00:13.340 --> 0:00:15.530 where we dive into the latest in the world of 0:00:15.530 --> 0:00:19.310 pop culture and entertainment. I'm here with Thomas Mitchell and 0:00:19.310 --> 0:00:22.610 Mel Schembri. Tough week for you guys, Thomas. Your boy 0:00:22.610 --> 0:00:26.660 Drake took a pretty big L. Mel, your girl Dua 0:00:26.690 --> 0:00:30.320 Lipa released a deeply mid album. You guys holding up 0:00:30.320 --> 0:00:31.340 all right? 0:00:31.370 --> 0:00:34.490 Yeah. Holding up okay. I mean, I think Dua's probably 0:00:34.490 --> 0:00:36.740 come off a little better than Drake, but I'm sure 0:00:36.740 --> 0:00:38.600 we'll get into that in a bit. 0:00:38.720 --> 0:00:41.750 Yeah, I've always been excited to go on the record 0:00:41.750 --> 0:00:45.740 defending possible predators. So yeah, it's just another week in 0:00:45.740 --> 0:00:46.490 my life. 0:00:47.540 --> 0:00:51.169 Uh, we'll be talking a lot more, perhaps unsurprisingly, about 0:00:51.170 --> 0:00:54.860 the feud between Kendrick Lamar and Drake, its origins, how 0:00:54.860 --> 0:00:57.860 it's played out and what kinds of consequences it could 0:00:57.860 --> 0:01:00.529 have for the pair, the wider rap scene and the 0:01:00.530 --> 0:01:03.050 music industry more broadly. We're also going to be talking 0:01:03.050 --> 0:01:06.410 about the Dua album and some other big pop releases 0:01:06.410 --> 0:01:09.350 that we're into at the moment, and finally, we'll be 0:01:09.350 --> 0:01:13.640 discussing The Fall Guy, the Australian shot action comedy starring 0:01:13.640 --> 0:01:17.060 Ryan Gosling and Emily Blunt. But first, this week it 0:01:17.060 --> 0:01:20.780 was the first Tuesday in May, which means the Met 0:01:20.780 --> 0:01:21.620 Gala was on. 0:01:23.680 --> 0:01:25.780 It's fashion's biggest night. 0:01:27.760 --> 0:01:31.480 Sydney the Met Gala is the party of the year. 0:01:31.480 --> 0:01:35.200 The Met Gala, the annual celeb studded fundraiser held to 0:01:35.200 --> 0:01:38.050 benefit New York City's Metropolitan Museum of Art. 0:01:38.050 --> 0:01:39.069 Finally I'm here. 0:01:39.069 --> 0:01:41.410 I was moving house on Tuesday, so I did not 0:01:41.410 --> 0:01:44.320 pay very close attention to this one. Though I did 0:01:44.319 --> 0:01:47.230 get the sense from social media that it seems to 0:01:47.230 --> 0:01:50.110 be taking up more and more attention every year. It's 0:01:50.110 --> 0:01:53.560 kind of gone from a fashion focused fundraiser thing to 0:01:53.560 --> 0:01:56.680 just being like a key part of the pop cultural 0:01:56.680 --> 0:02:00.490 calendar every year. Does that ring true to you guys? 0:02:00.490 --> 0:02:02.740 What kind of stood out from this year's Met Gala? 0:02:03.070 --> 0:02:05.020 Yeah, I reckon that's totally true. And I think it 0:02:05.020 --> 0:02:07.690 makes sense because the Met Gala feels so right for 0:02:07.690 --> 0:02:11.440 our online generation. It's all spectacle and no substance. It's 0:02:11.440 --> 0:02:14.830 all about conscious illusion and artifice. And it's also unlike 0:02:14.860 --> 0:02:17.950 other big events, red carpet events. It's just purely based 0:02:17.950 --> 0:02:20.739 on celebrity. You have to get the invite from Anna Wintour. 0:02:20.770 --> 0:02:23.230 You can be anyone. You don't necessarily have to be 0:02:23.230 --> 0:02:25.450 there because you know, you've been nominated for a film. 0:02:25.450 --> 0:02:28.000 So you also get quite a broad and interesting sweep 0:02:28.000 --> 0:02:30.370 of people, which sets it up for real kind of 0:02:30.370 --> 0:02:32.860 viral moments that are perfect for the internet. What stood 0:02:32.860 --> 0:02:34.840 out from this one? I actually think maybe it was 0:02:34.840 --> 0:02:37.630 the kind of lack of those big moments, those big 0:02:37.630 --> 0:02:40.060 talking points, like when I think back to some of 0:02:40.060 --> 0:02:43.389 the outfits in the past, Jared Leto in that cat, 0:02:43.389 --> 0:02:46.120 Doja Cat as a cat, Lil NAS X room when 0:02:46.120 --> 0:02:48.790 he wore that all silver outfit, Kim K had that 0:02:48.790 --> 0:02:51.640 big stocking thing. There's been some really big moments, and 0:02:51.639 --> 0:02:53.649 I don't really think there were any huge talking points 0:02:53.650 --> 0:02:55.690 from this Met Gala. In a way, people seem to 0:02:55.690 --> 0:02:57.700 play it really safe. And I also think the other 0:02:57.700 --> 0:03:00.310 thing that stood out was the theme. Clearly confused a 0:03:00.310 --> 0:03:02.650 lot of people. There was not like a lot of 0:03:02.650 --> 0:03:05.200 cohesion in what people were wearing. And I think Anna 0:03:05.200 --> 0:03:08.140 Wintour has actually apologized. She kind of potentially saw this 0:03:08.139 --> 0:03:10.930 coming because she apologized in advance that maybe the theme 0:03:10.930 --> 0:03:12.970 had been a bit confusing. Well, the thing was like. 0:03:12.970 --> 0:03:15.640 Garden of something, but people just took the garden bit 0:03:15.639 --> 0:03:16.690 more literally. 0:03:16.690 --> 0:03:18.250 Yeah, well, the theme was Sleeping. 0:03:18.250 --> 0:03:21.820 Beauty's Reawakening fashion, but then the dress code was the 0:03:21.820 --> 0:03:24.310 Garden of Time. Um, which are. 0:03:24.310 --> 0:03:25.299 The Garden of Time? 0:03:25.419 --> 0:03:30.430 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which, um, Anna Wintour obviously now realizes 0:03:30.430 --> 0:03:33.130 was too complex for people. Um, so I think it 0:03:33.130 --> 0:03:35.230 did come through on the carpet a lot, like it 0:03:35.230 --> 0:03:37.810 was not really clear what people were dressing up. And 0:03:37.810 --> 0:03:39.610 everyone had quite a different take on the theme. 0:03:39.610 --> 0:03:42.100 Yeah, I just saw lots of photos of like, it 0:03:42.100 --> 0:03:44.290 was like Hugh Jackman in a tux, Chris Hemsworth in 0:03:44.290 --> 0:03:46.990 a tux. Like the Australian guys just doing what Australian 0:03:46.990 --> 0:03:50.260 guys do and disappointing everybody. But like, I guess Zendaya 0:03:50.260 --> 0:03:52.240 was the big one that everyone was talking about. I 0:03:52.240 --> 0:03:55.360 guess generally though, it felt like this was set up 0:03:55.360 --> 0:03:58.480 to be a big kind of flashpoint because, I mean, 0:03:58.480 --> 0:04:01.360 it's hard to avoid the optics of something like that, uh, 0:04:01.360 --> 0:04:04.090 difficult right now with everything that's going on in the world. 0:04:04.090 --> 0:04:06.880 People love to kind of have that conversation around big 0:04:06.880 --> 0:04:10.420 celebrity events when there are these huge, you know, global 0:04:10.420 --> 0:04:13.090 events also happening at the same time, and especially with 0:04:13.090 --> 0:04:14.830 something like the Met Gala that isn't, you know, like 0:04:14.830 --> 0:04:16.929 an award ceremony or at least something broader. People are 0:04:16.930 --> 0:04:18.490 always going to be like, well, do we need to 0:04:18.490 --> 0:04:20.229 be doing this right now while you know everything that's 0:04:20.230 --> 0:04:21.400 going on in the Middle East? 0:04:21.820 --> 0:04:23.560 Yeah, when we talk, we talk about the Met Gala, 0:04:23.560 --> 0:04:26.290 but really the way that we consume it publicly is 0:04:26.290 --> 0:04:30.160 the celebrities outside the Met Gala being photographed as they enter. 0:04:30.160 --> 0:04:33.010 We don't really get a lot from what goes on inside. 0:04:33.010 --> 0:04:35.109 I saw someone on social media being like, so what? 0:04:35.110 --> 0:04:38.680 What happens in the Met Gala? And it's just what. 0:04:38.680 --> 0:04:39.460 Does happen in the it's. 0:04:39.460 --> 0:04:41.260 Like a fundraising dinner. I think there were some speeches 0:04:41.260 --> 0:04:44.320 and people sort of eat food and wander around. They 0:04:44.320 --> 0:04:47.710 take selfies. There's occasionally like videos that emerge of Jennifer 0:04:47.710 --> 0:04:50.589 Lopez running into other celebrities in the bathroom. There's an 0:04:50.589 --> 0:04:53.500 episode of Dave, the Show that you still refuse to watch, Thomas, 0:04:53.500 --> 0:04:55.990 which is set inside the Met Gala in an episode. 0:04:55.990 --> 0:04:58.330 That's the closest I've come to understanding what the Met 0:04:58.330 --> 0:04:59.890 Gala is like inside. 0:04:59.890 --> 0:05:02.680 Yeah, an ocean's. There's an ocean set in in the 0:05:02.680 --> 0:05:05.710 Met Gala as well. That's entirely what I'm basing it on. Oh, yeah, 0:05:05.710 --> 0:05:06.340 that's right. 0:05:06.339 --> 0:05:09.310 Oh, the Ocean's eight. Um, yeah. They're not very good. 0:05:09.310 --> 0:05:12.520 Ocean's not because of, you know, the fact that they're 0:05:12.520 --> 0:05:14.380 gender flipped. It just wasn't that good. Of course not 0:05:14.380 --> 0:05:16.930 as a movie. Yeah. To your point, Thomas, about the 0:05:16.930 --> 0:05:20.049 incongruous nature of it this year, Marina Hyde, who I 0:05:20.080 --> 0:05:23.020 normally really enjoy reading, she's a Guardian UK columnist, had 0:05:23.020 --> 0:05:26.200 a piece this week arguing that during times when the 0:05:26.200 --> 0:05:28.930 news is very heavy and grim, an event like the 0:05:28.930 --> 0:05:32.380 Met Gala serves as a distraction to it. Just something 0:05:32.380 --> 0:05:34.690 we can sort of zone out and watch these people 0:05:34.690 --> 0:05:37.120 wear their their outfits. But I mean, I think there's 0:05:37.120 --> 0:05:40.029 an argument that in some instances, like the opposite can 0:05:40.029 --> 0:05:43.810 also be true. It felt, particularly this year, I think, 0:05:43.810 --> 0:05:46.210 to do with the timing of it. Just very odd 0:05:46.210 --> 0:05:50.140 where every second post was a celebrity being photographed, and 0:05:50.140 --> 0:05:52.570 then the posts after that were like clips or news 0:05:52.570 --> 0:05:56.469 stories of Israel's invasion of Gaza. The Met Gala is 0:05:56.470 --> 0:06:00.460 deeply a political and like always has been, and it's 0:06:00.460 --> 0:06:02.650 another contrast to events like the Oscars. It's not just 0:06:02.650 --> 0:06:05.920 about it not being an awards ceremony, but you do see, 0:06:05.920 --> 0:06:10.150 even if most celebrities aren't embracing a political message we 0:06:10.150 --> 0:06:12.700 have seen in this awards in the last kind of 0:06:12.700 --> 0:06:15.550 12 months of awards season, at least, people wearing pins 0:06:15.550 --> 0:06:18.520 making speeches. None of that happens at the Met Gala. 0:06:18.520 --> 0:06:22.480 Anna Wintour keeps a pretty tight leash on that. There 0:06:22.480 --> 0:06:25.870 was this. Quote from Suzanne Collins that I saw doing 0:06:25.870 --> 0:06:28.330 the rounds yesterday. She's the author of The Hunger Games, 0:06:28.330 --> 0:06:31.900 and she said that she was inspired to write that 0:06:31.900 --> 0:06:35.530 series because in the early 2000, she was watching TV 0:06:35.529 --> 0:06:39.219 and it was reality TV being interspersed with clips of 0:06:39.220 --> 0:06:42.280 the invasion of Iraq and sort of that, that I think, quote, 0:06:42.279 --> 0:06:45.070 has been finding a lot of resonance this week because 0:06:45.070 --> 0:06:47.620 people are saying, well, the Met Gala and the invasion 0:06:47.620 --> 0:06:49.840 of Rafah happening at the exact same time. It's sort 0:06:49.839 --> 0:06:53.560 of hard to to disconnect those two things. It's a 0:06:53.560 --> 0:06:56.679 big question, but I mean, is this is this escapism 0:06:56.680 --> 0:06:59.470 that we all need? Is it a distraction? How do 0:06:59.470 --> 0:07:01.900 you think people should be feeling about this? 0:07:01.930 --> 0:07:03.940 Yeah. Like I think I can kind of see both 0:07:03.940 --> 0:07:06.490 sides because, I mean, it's easy to say something like 0:07:06.490 --> 0:07:09.250 the Met Gala is completely unnecessary and like in bad 0:07:09.279 --> 0:07:11.710 taste right now. But then it becomes, for me a 0:07:11.710 --> 0:07:13.690 question of like, well, where do you draw the line? 0:07:13.690 --> 0:07:16.929 Like we're about to spend however long discussing Drake and 0:07:16.930 --> 0:07:19.840 Kendrick arguing over the internet, and you could so easily 0:07:19.840 --> 0:07:21.880 make the same argument that, like, that's so ridiculous that 0:07:21.880 --> 0:07:23.650 you would even give that air time right now with 0:07:23.650 --> 0:07:26.500 everything that's going on. And like, I think it does 0:07:26.500 --> 0:07:29.260 become this thing where at some point I guess you 0:07:29.260 --> 0:07:31.540 have to decide that you can. I don't know that 0:07:31.540 --> 0:07:34.420 these two things can coexist and and it's okay to 0:07:34.420 --> 0:07:36.820 talk about both or have both, like it's really tricky 0:07:36.820 --> 0:07:39.820 because you don't want to be seen to be like, oh, well, 0:07:39.820 --> 0:07:42.220 I'm just putting that out of sight and, you know, whatever. Like, 0:07:42.220 --> 0:07:44.770 unfortunately it's not impacting me. So I can just enjoy 0:07:44.770 --> 0:07:47.410 the Met Gala. But I do think sometimes there is this, 0:07:47.410 --> 0:07:51.430 like inclination to just then call everything shallow and all 0:07:51.430 --> 0:07:53.350 we can all be talking about and focusing on 24 0:07:53.350 --> 0:07:55.240 over seven is like, what's going on in the Middle East? 0:07:55.240 --> 0:07:57.850 And yeah, I think it creates this like lose lose 0:07:57.850 --> 0:07:59.110 situation a little bit. 0:07:59.110 --> 0:08:01.660 Yeah. I think it's funny that the, the dress code, 0:08:01.660 --> 0:08:03.610 The Garden of Time is based on the name of 0:08:03.610 --> 0:08:06.670 a short story by J.G. Ballard, who wrote the story 0:08:06.670 --> 0:08:08.980 in 1962. Okay, this is a bit fun fact from 0:08:08.980 --> 0:08:11.650 your resident reader, but it is kind of funny. The 0:08:11.650 --> 0:08:14.620 short story is about this kind of rich couple who 0:08:14.620 --> 0:08:17.440 live in an estate where the air is bright and 0:08:17.440 --> 0:08:19.840 the the weather is warm. They live in this beautiful 0:08:19.840 --> 0:08:22.120 kind of fantasy land. And then one day they look 0:08:22.120 --> 0:08:24.670 out onto the dry and barren plains and they see, 0:08:24.670 --> 0:08:28.540 like people labored with heavy loads kind of around their neck, 0:08:28.540 --> 0:08:31.180 and the kind of rabble sets up on the horizon, 0:08:31.180 --> 0:08:35.050 encroaching on their fantasy land. And I mean, that's where 0:08:35.050 --> 0:08:38.020 the rabble of the met is. The met is this 0:08:38.020 --> 0:08:41.439 garden of illusion and artifice that can't last. But like 0:08:41.440 --> 0:08:44.080 this couple that have to kind of keep picking flowers, 0:08:44.080 --> 0:08:46.390 you know, it's not going to last. And I mean, 0:08:46.390 --> 0:08:49.300 I don't think the met is trying to be self-referential, 0:08:49.300 --> 0:08:51.940 but that kind of is it. We're on the horizon, 0:08:51.940 --> 0:08:55.090 kind of enjoying the beauty of this estate even as 0:08:55.090 --> 0:08:56.140 we know it's fake. 0:08:56.140 --> 0:08:59.650 Yeah, it's a kind of perfect accidental metaphor. Yeah. Look, 0:08:59.650 --> 0:09:03.370 I don't expect anything dramatic or political from the Mecca. 0:09:03.370 --> 0:09:05.590 I think it does what it does, and that's what 0:09:05.590 --> 0:09:07.240 it's always done. And that's what it always will do. 0:09:07.240 --> 0:09:10.719 I think there's probably just certain times in which the 0:09:10.720 --> 0:09:14.199 ability for some of the wealthiest people on the planet 0:09:14.200 --> 0:09:17.860 to insulate themselves and pretend nothing else is going on 0:09:17.860 --> 0:09:21.010 can sometimes feel like a little bit too absurd. I 0:09:21.010 --> 0:09:23.260 think it's a fair point about the rap stuff. Thomas. 0:09:23.260 --> 0:09:26.080 I think we'll mention a bit about some of the 0:09:26.080 --> 0:09:29.200 criticisms of Drake and Kendrick just talking about themselves when 0:09:29.200 --> 0:09:31.660 there's a lot else going on. One of the things 0:09:31.660 --> 0:09:35.050 that I just found bewildering, like the the appearance of 0:09:35.050 --> 0:09:39.099 Anthony Pratt, the Australian cardboard billionaire dressed in sort of 0:09:39.100 --> 0:09:41.230 a pink Willy Wonka suit. And I know that this 0:09:41.230 --> 0:09:43.090 is a fundraiser, and I know that all sorts of 0:09:43.090 --> 0:09:45.580 just like rich people go to it, but maybe it's 0:09:45.580 --> 0:09:48.820 because he's Australian. It's like cultural cringe or something. But 0:09:48.820 --> 0:09:52.480 I'm like, this feels like less exciting than it's felt 0:09:52.480 --> 0:09:54.010 before seeing him there. 0:09:54.010 --> 0:09:56.320 Yeah. And you know how like, color analysis is like 0:09:56.320 --> 0:09:58.660 having a real moment at the moment and everyone's getting 0:09:58.660 --> 0:10:00.310 it done and getting AI to do it. When I 0:10:00.309 --> 0:10:02.319 saw him in that pink suit and his face just 0:10:02.320 --> 0:10:04.479 looked so pink, I was like, that is a case 0:10:04.480 --> 0:10:07.569 for why color analysis matters. But I also the other Aussie, 0:10:07.600 --> 0:10:11.020 you mentioned it earlier, Chris Hemsworth, very bland. Wasn't it? 0:10:11.020 --> 0:10:14.559 Just like a classic three piece suit? Like just beige? 0:10:14.559 --> 0:10:16.540 So yeah, I don't know if the Australians had a 0:10:16.540 --> 0:10:18.280 great showing at the met this year. 0:10:18.280 --> 0:10:19.510 Except for Kylie. Obviously. 0:10:19.840 --> 0:10:21.760 I didn't see Kylie's outfit. She looked pretty. 0:10:21.760 --> 0:10:24.939 Good. Troye Sivan as well. Our our pop princesses did great. 0:10:25.570 --> 0:10:28.630 Okay, so from pop princesses to two people who had 0:10:28.630 --> 0:10:31.090 nothing to do with the Met Gala at all, it's 0:10:31.090 --> 0:10:33.820 time to talk about the biggest cultural moment of the week, 0:10:33.820 --> 0:10:38.440 and arguably even the last few years. The incredibly personal, 0:10:38.440 --> 0:10:43.209 vicious and deeply fascinating feud between two of the biggest 0:10:43.210 --> 0:10:47.500 rappers the past decade, Drake and Kendrick Lamar. I guess 0:10:47.500 --> 0:10:49.750 the freshest development in this saga is the news that 0:10:49.750 --> 0:10:53.020 one of Drake's security guards was shot inside his house 0:10:53.020 --> 0:10:57.010 in Toronto on Wednesday morning. The assailant escaped. We have 0:10:57.010 --> 0:10:59.890 no further details about the shooting or the background or 0:10:59.890 --> 0:11:02.380 motivations of the shooter, but I mean, it is pretty 0:11:02.380 --> 0:11:07.690 wild timing considering everything going on before that incident. It's 0:11:07.690 --> 0:11:10.390 worth laying out, I guess. Basically where we were at 0:11:10.390 --> 0:11:13.960 after spending a couple of weeks releasing tracks that were 0:11:13.960 --> 0:11:18.340 getting increasingly more personal, aimed at each other, allegations of 0:11:18.340 --> 0:11:23.470 domestic abuse, sex trafficking, and underage grooming. Kendrick. Was widely 0:11:23.470 --> 0:11:28.720 considered to have pretty thoroughly demolished Drake's reputation and outranked him. 0:11:28.720 --> 0:11:31.840 Kind of culminated in the most recent track that's been released, 0:11:31.900 --> 0:11:34.690 a track from Drake five minutes long, where he basically 0:11:34.690 --> 0:11:38.470 spent most of it denying being a pedophile. It's kind 0:11:38.470 --> 0:11:42.729 of been interpreted as a quiet, strategic retreat from this 0:11:42.730 --> 0:11:48.280 whole episode. This was melanomas, particularly over the weekend when 0:11:48.280 --> 0:11:52.510 we had multiple tracks being dropped every day. I think, 0:11:52.510 --> 0:11:54.670 safe to say, one of the biggest moments in in 0:11:54.670 --> 0:11:57.250 pop culture in recent times, it felt like everyone had 0:11:57.250 --> 0:11:59.679 sort of stopped to plug in and see what was 0:11:59.679 --> 0:12:03.130 going on. Sure, you were getting text messages either from 0:12:03.130 --> 0:12:05.230 people being like, have you seen it? Or friends asking 0:12:05.230 --> 0:12:08.350 you to explain what was going on felt particularly interesting. 0:12:08.350 --> 0:12:11.260 In the era of media fragmentation, where we don't tend 0:12:11.260 --> 0:12:14.410 to all like, gather on to one big thing. It 0:12:14.410 --> 0:12:17.229 definitely felt like the biggest rap beef in years, potentially 0:12:17.230 --> 0:12:19.989 bigger than the infamous feud between Jay-Z NAS in the 0:12:19.990 --> 0:12:22.780 early 2000. There's going to be ramifications for both of 0:12:22.780 --> 0:12:25.630 these guys and the direction of hip hop. There's plenty 0:12:25.630 --> 0:12:28.330 to discuss, but maybe we'll start with with kind of 0:12:28.330 --> 0:12:32.170 where this starts. And maybe before we do that, it 0:12:32.170 --> 0:12:35.050 could be interesting to discuss the respective positions of each 0:12:35.050 --> 0:12:38.320 of these rappers before they got into this feud. Thomas, 0:12:38.320 --> 0:12:39.520 I'm wondering if you can give us a kind of 0:12:39.520 --> 0:12:42.370 TLDR on kind of Drake as a rapper. Where does 0:12:42.370 --> 0:12:45.040 he sit and how does that compare to to Kendrick's 0:12:45.040 --> 0:12:47.500 profile and position in the hip hop world? 0:12:47.500 --> 0:12:51.130 Yeah for sure Mel. So TLDR is too long. Don't worry. 0:12:51.250 --> 0:12:53.350 I know nothing's ever too long for me to read. 0:12:53.440 --> 0:12:57.190 Um, so basically I guess like the scene is that 0:12:57.190 --> 0:13:00.969 you've got Drake, arguably the biggest kind of name in 0:13:00.970 --> 0:13:04.479 rap pop. He he's a hip hop guy, but really 0:13:04.480 --> 0:13:07.840 he's seen as the pop star of rap. Um, obviously, 0:13:07.840 --> 0:13:12.370 you know, enormously successful. Signed a $400 million complete global 0:13:12.370 --> 0:13:14.380 publishing deal with universal a few years ago, one of 0:13:14.380 --> 0:13:17.199 the biggest deals of all time called the LeBron deal 0:13:17.200 --> 0:13:20.920 of music. Um, you know, obviously we all know Drake songs. 0:13:20.920 --> 0:13:24.190 He feels clubs, he tops the Billboard 100 all the time. 0:13:24.190 --> 0:13:26.860 He wins lots of Grammys. He is kind of like 0:13:26.860 --> 0:13:30.460 the palatable hip hop star, but really, he's a pop star. 0:13:30.460 --> 0:13:34.059 Then you have Kendrick Lamar seen as many as, I guess, 0:13:34.059 --> 0:13:37.810 like the icon of pure hip hop, he is kind 0:13:37.809 --> 0:13:40.719 of the incumbent to Tupac Shakur. He's seen by purists 0:13:40.720 --> 0:13:43.150 as the true face of hip hop. Um, he's from 0:13:43.150 --> 0:13:46.360 Compton in Los Angeles, often seen as the spiritual heartland 0:13:46.360 --> 0:13:49.689 of hip hop. And, you know, he releases albums that are, 0:13:49.690 --> 0:13:51.579 you know, really kind of viewed in a more critical 0:13:51.580 --> 0:13:54.880 lens than anything Drake ever does. He's won a Pulitzer Prize, Mel, 0:13:54.880 --> 0:13:57.730 which is like a really important prize, basically. And yeah, 0:13:57.730 --> 0:14:00.250 so that kind of sets the scene in, in what 0:14:00.250 --> 0:14:04.059 I mean, does even though the feud has gone beyond ridiculous, 0:14:04.059 --> 0:14:06.430 it set the scene for a really perfect match up 0:14:06.429 --> 0:14:09.910 because it was like kind of like this good versus evil. 0:14:09.910 --> 0:14:13.000 You know, the good guy being Kendrick, who represents the 0:14:13.000 --> 0:14:15.550 pure art of hip hop, and then Drake being the 0:14:15.550 --> 0:14:18.010 sellout who represents, I guess, the problems of modern hip 0:14:18.010 --> 0:14:19.930 hop according to a lot of fans. So, yeah, that 0:14:19.930 --> 0:14:22.600 was kind of the state of things. But yeah, very 0:14:22.600 --> 0:14:24.970 much it was these two guys who represented two different 0:14:24.970 --> 0:14:27.640 schools of thought of where hip hop is at right now. 0:14:27.640 --> 0:14:29.470 And I think fair to say, Thomas, like you and 0:14:29.470 --> 0:14:32.140 I have listened to probably every record that either Drake 0:14:32.140 --> 0:14:34.930 or Kendrick have made and have a lot of time 0:14:34.930 --> 0:14:37.360 and respect for what they do. 0:14:38.060 --> 0:14:40.430 Yeah for sure. Like, I love both guys. I get 0:14:40.430 --> 0:14:42.560 a lot of enjoyment out of both of their work, um, 0:14:42.560 --> 0:14:44.930 for different, very different reasons. And, and that's why I 0:14:44.930 --> 0:14:47.540 think it was such a curious thing at the start 0:14:47.540 --> 0:14:49.910 to see these two guys go at it, who, you know, 0:14:49.910 --> 0:14:52.730 because in the early 20 tens, they were, you know, 0:14:52.730 --> 0:14:55.010 very friendly and they appeared on each other's tracks. Um, 0:14:55.010 --> 0:14:57.770 Poetic Justice, the Kendrick song and Kendrick also appeared on 0:14:57.770 --> 0:15:00.410 Drake's Take Care album. They toured together, so they were 0:15:00.410 --> 0:15:02.720 very much like friendly. But then as they both kind 0:15:02.720 --> 0:15:04.700 of went on their own trajectory and became very big 0:15:04.700 --> 0:15:08.600 in different kind of crowds, they've drifted further apart. And 0:15:08.600 --> 0:15:10.190 then now here we are now. 0:15:10.220 --> 0:15:12.050 Before we really dive into it all. I mean, where 0:15:12.050 --> 0:15:14.030 do you sit with each of these guys? Do you 0:15:14.030 --> 0:15:18.530 have a preference for the sounds of either Drake or Kendrick? 0:15:18.650 --> 0:15:20.750 No, I think I've always kind of taken the El 0:15:20.750 --> 0:15:24.800 Paso approach to it. I think both have both have 0:15:24.800 --> 0:15:26.810 like both can exist and we can be happy with 0:15:26.810 --> 0:15:29.330 both and grateful to have both. I've never really nailed 0:15:29.330 --> 0:15:32.450 my colours to any of their masks, and to be honest, 0:15:32.450 --> 0:15:35.330 I'm very glad I didn't and I haven't because I 0:15:35.330 --> 0:15:38.870 think this whole episode has been shameful and they are 0:15:38.870 --> 0:15:43.729 both shameful. And I mean, I am disappointed I oh, 0:15:43.910 --> 0:15:46.430 all right, there's the first one. Yeah, that's the wisest. 0:15:46.430 --> 0:15:47.990 Thing I've heard. Um, yeah. 0:15:47.990 --> 0:15:52.400 I mean, I know I'm, I'm trying hard not to 0:15:52.400 --> 0:15:54.590 think of this as a battle for relevancy. And I'm 0:15:54.590 --> 0:15:56.720 listening to you, Oz, and I'm hearing that you're telling 0:15:56.720 --> 0:15:58.400 me this is about the future of hip hop. But 0:15:58.400 --> 0:16:00.290 part of me is like, is this about the end 0:16:00.290 --> 0:16:01.190 of hip hop? 0:16:01.190 --> 0:16:03.620 Well, I mean, look, that is not a terrible question 0:16:03.620 --> 0:16:06.410 to to raise, because certainly that is one that a 0:16:06.410 --> 0:16:07.940 lot of critics, a lot of hip hop critics have 0:16:07.940 --> 0:16:10.940 been discussing, like this is maybe in some ways, you know, 0:16:10.940 --> 0:16:13.790 these two, two titans that reflect an era that doesn't 0:16:13.790 --> 0:16:17.570 really exist anymore, having one final throwdown, and we probably 0:16:17.570 --> 0:16:19.820 will never see anything like this again. I think I 0:16:19.820 --> 0:16:22.280 think there's a question there that that is worth discussing, 0:16:22.280 --> 0:16:25.130 but let's, um, let's sort of delve into how we 0:16:25.130 --> 0:16:27.650 got here for a minute. So as some have said, 0:16:27.650 --> 0:16:30.500 these guys, they were friends, they collaborated a few times. 0:16:30.500 --> 0:16:33.710 They sort of went into different lanes for the past 0:16:33.710 --> 0:16:37.940 nearly decade now, I'd say. But in October they came 0:16:37.940 --> 0:16:41.840 back into each other's orbits. Drake released a song called 0:16:41.840 --> 0:16:46.220 First Person Shooter, which included a verse from another big rapper, J. Cole. 0:16:46.370 --> 0:16:49.580 Uh J Cole referred to himself, Drake and Kendrick as 0:16:49.580 --> 0:16:51.260 the big three of rap. 0:16:51.980 --> 0:16:54.290 Me we the big three. Like we started the league. 0:16:54.290 --> 0:16:56.210 But right now I feel like Muhammad Ali. 0:16:57.380 --> 0:17:01.040 Didn't kind of feel that controversial at the time. It was, 0:17:01.040 --> 0:17:03.830 I guess, intended to be respectful and say, hey, we're 0:17:03.830 --> 0:17:06.080 all pretty cool. I like hanging out with you guys. 0:17:06.080 --> 0:17:08.960 Hip hop is great. Look at us here at the top. Uh, 0:17:08.960 --> 0:17:11.840 in March though, this year things got a bit more hectic, 0:17:11.840 --> 0:17:13.550 and we discussed this briefly a few weeks ago on 0:17:13.550 --> 0:17:17.180 the show when Atlanta rapper future dropped an album with 0:17:17.180 --> 0:17:20.060 producer Metro Boomin. Uh, I thought that album was like, fine. 0:17:20.060 --> 0:17:21.050 There was like a bit of a blow up at 0:17:21.050 --> 0:17:23.960 the time, but it didn't feel as dramatic as as 0:17:23.960 --> 0:17:25.909 it has since gotten. There was a track on that 0:17:25.910 --> 0:17:29.959 album called Like That featured Kendrick, where he took aim 0:17:29.960 --> 0:17:33.710 at Drake and J. Cole, explicitly referencing that line about 0:17:33.710 --> 0:17:34.970 them being the big three. 0:17:35.540 --> 0:17:39.380 Motherfuck the big three. It's just big me, nigga. Boom. 0:17:40.160 --> 0:17:42.949 Well, that was like definitely a dig at Drake and Cole. 0:17:42.950 --> 0:17:45.650 It didn't feel like crazy. This is like a big 0:17:45.650 --> 0:17:47.689 part of hip hop where people are just saying they're 0:17:47.690 --> 0:17:50.119 better than the others. It's part of the braggadocio culture 0:17:50.119 --> 0:17:53.840 of hip hop. Didn't really expect things to take the 0:17:53.840 --> 0:17:57.170 turn that they did, but, um, yeah, we'll get there. 0:17:57.170 --> 0:17:58.910 Probably the funniest twist, I think, in all of this 0:17:58.910 --> 0:18:02.750 is J. Cole took that very personally and released a 0:18:02.750 --> 0:18:06.140 seven minute long track criticizing Kendrick and then very, very 0:18:06.140 --> 0:18:08.300 quickly deleted it and said, I'm sorry, I want nothing 0:18:08.300 --> 0:18:10.040 to do with this. I don't know if he, like 0:18:10.310 --> 0:18:13.520 someone from the future, went back in time and told him, dude, 0:18:13.520 --> 0:18:14.960 you're just going to want to tap out of this 0:18:14.960 --> 0:18:17.060 one and just go stay at home and have a 0:18:17.060 --> 0:18:19.370 nice time. Watch um Shogun on Disney+. 0:18:19.369 --> 0:18:20.659 If anything, though, that has given us one of the 0:18:20.660 --> 0:18:22.550 best parts of this beef in that like the internet 0:18:22.550 --> 0:18:24.680 has had a field day with like, well, things have 0:18:24.680 --> 0:18:27.619 gotten increasingly vicious between Drake and Kendrick. There's all these 0:18:27.619 --> 0:18:29.780 memes of like, J. Cole right now, and it's someone 0:18:29.780 --> 0:18:31.970 like walking through a field of grass, like having the 0:18:31.970 --> 0:18:34.190 time of their lives. So yeah, I do wonder if J. 0:18:34.190 --> 0:18:36.649 Cole is a bit like, well, I'm so glad I 0:18:36.650 --> 0:18:39.650 tapped out and deleted my song. Or I personally, um, 0:18:39.650 --> 0:18:42.350 kind of think it's a little bit embarrassing for him. 0:18:42.350 --> 0:18:43.520 Oh, you think he should have stepped up? 0:18:43.520 --> 0:18:45.950 Well, I mean, like, he he he basically like he 0:18:45.950 --> 0:18:48.650 went in, he involved himself first and then like, he 0:18:48.650 --> 0:18:52.040 really like whatever you think of Drake, I think at 0:18:52.040 --> 0:18:54.920 least he like he committed. He committed, he committed. Whereas J. 0:18:54.920 --> 0:18:57.350 Cole like you know, sure he hasn't then had like 0:18:57.350 --> 0:18:59.840 all this dirty laundry of his aired. But I feel 0:18:59.840 --> 0:19:01.639 like that will stick with him forever in hip hop, 0:19:01.640 --> 0:19:04.310 which is famously like a reputation game. You know, he 0:19:04.310 --> 0:19:05.780 may have made a smart decision, but it's still a 0:19:05.780 --> 0:19:07.639 decision that paints him as someone who was not prepared 0:19:07.640 --> 0:19:08.180 to throw it out. 0:19:08.180 --> 0:19:09.679 It's so good. I love that he, like, lit the 0:19:09.680 --> 0:19:12.050 fire and then kind of spider monkey it out of there. 0:19:12.920 --> 0:19:16.160 Um, so Drake, uh, Drake decided to involve himself in this. 0:19:16.160 --> 0:19:18.800 In the middle of April, he released his first diss 0:19:18.800 --> 0:19:21.770 track aimed at Kendrick, push ups and tailor made freestyle. 0:19:21.770 --> 0:19:24.229 At this stage, I think, like fair to say that 0:19:24.230 --> 0:19:28.399 the disses were relatively tame. They mainly focused on. On 0:19:28.400 --> 0:19:31.670 Drake criticizing Kendrick's music. Drake listed a bunch of rappers. 0:19:31.670 --> 0:19:35.030 He thought that, uh, were better than Kendrick. He had 0:19:35.030 --> 0:19:39.160 a go at Kendrick for collaborating with. Taylorswift and other 0:19:39.160 --> 0:19:41.290 pop acts, which felt a bit dumb, like out of 0:19:41.290 --> 0:19:42.940 all the people in the hip hop world who can 0:19:42.940 --> 0:19:47.890 say you've gone too mainstream? Drake saying that to Kendrick. Uh, 0:19:48.160 --> 0:19:50.649 I don't think really, really stacked up, but it's what 0:19:50.650 --> 0:19:54.639 he did. And from there, things got way more personal. 0:19:54.640 --> 0:19:59.050 Kendrick releases a track called euphoria and 616 in LA, 0:19:59.050 --> 0:20:04.180 which accused Drake of having plastic surgery and most significantly, 0:20:04.180 --> 0:20:08.440 at this stage, uh, Kendrick called Drake a bad father. 0:20:08.440 --> 0:20:10.240 And we'll get back to why that's such a big deal. 0:20:10.240 --> 0:20:13.780 But that was probably the first real escalation in terms 0:20:13.780 --> 0:20:17.800 of this taking a vicious personal turn. The same day, uh, 0:20:17.800 --> 0:20:21.010 Drake drops a track called Family Matters where he's like, okay, 0:20:21.010 --> 0:20:23.439 you brought my son into this shit is going to 0:20:23.440 --> 0:20:26.260 get real now, uh, he says that one of Kendrick's 0:20:26.260 --> 0:20:30.460 children was actually fathered by his friend and colleague, Dave Frye, 0:20:30.580 --> 0:20:36.400 and he accused Lamar of being physically abusive towards his wife, Whitney. 0:20:36.400 --> 0:20:40.510 20 minutes after that track came out, Kendrick releases Meet 0:20:40.510 --> 0:20:44.200 the Grimes. Probably like the darkest track in this whole beef. 0:20:44.200 --> 0:20:46.750 And I say that because even though it really set 0:20:46.750 --> 0:20:48.370 things to another level, no one really wants to talk 0:20:48.369 --> 0:20:50.920 about this one too much because of just how brutal 0:20:50.920 --> 0:20:55.750 it got. Kendrick directly addresses Drake's son, Adonis. He accuses 0:20:55.750 --> 0:20:59.020 Drake of hiding a second child, this time a daughter. 0:20:59.140 --> 0:21:03.369 He suggests that Drake is attracted to underage children and 0:21:03.369 --> 0:21:06.909 accuses him of running a sex trafficking ring out of 0:21:06.910 --> 0:21:10.870 his Toronto mansion. Yeah, as you can tell, quite, quite 0:21:10.869 --> 0:21:14.140 a severe escalation in all of this. Um, from where 0:21:14.140 --> 0:21:15.910 it started, from the big three. 0:21:15.910 --> 0:21:18.340 To very different to I'm better than you. Like it's 0:21:18.340 --> 0:21:20.050 a big jump to then. Like, also you're running a 0:21:20.320 --> 0:21:21.610 sex trafficking ring. 0:21:21.820 --> 0:21:25.120 The the next day, Kendrick follows up with another track, 0:21:25.119 --> 0:21:28.090 Not Like Us. And this is maybe the best song 0:21:28.090 --> 0:21:29.830 in the whole thing in terms of Just Like as 0:21:29.830 --> 0:21:31.090 a standalone track. 0:21:32.720 --> 0:21:35.869 Oh, I must have heard the beat. Ho de bo. 0:21:35.869 --> 0:21:38.450 Any rap nigga. He a free throw, man. Damn. Call 0:21:38.450 --> 0:21:38.840 the amber. 0:21:38.840 --> 0:21:41.210 Lamps. Tell em pre-pro nella nigga to the cross. He 0:21:41.210 --> 0:21:43.580 walk around like teaser. What's up with these jabroni ass 0:21:43.580 --> 0:21:46.190 niggas tryna see Compton. The industry can hate me. Fuck 0:21:46.190 --> 0:21:48.230 em all they momma. How many apps you really got? 0:21:48.260 --> 0:21:50.570 How many is too many options I'm finna pass on 0:21:50.570 --> 0:21:52.100 this body I'm John Stockton. 0:21:52.340 --> 0:21:54.500 There's sort of early numbers out on streaming that this 0:21:54.500 --> 0:21:57.230 could actually replace Taylor Swift as the number one track 0:21:57.230 --> 0:22:00.230 on Billboard this week has a really catchy beat by 0:22:00.230 --> 0:22:03.500 DJ mustard, and on it, Kendrick doubles down on calling 0:22:03.500 --> 0:22:05.510 Drake a pedophile who he literally this time says the 0:22:05.510 --> 0:22:10.430 word pedophile. He parodies Drake's music style, and it's kind 0:22:10.430 --> 0:22:13.700 of considered at this stage that this is the point 0:22:13.700 --> 0:22:17.659 where Kendrick has successfully shredded Drake's reputation. He's kind of 0:22:17.660 --> 0:22:21.080 releasing two tracks for every one track Drake is dropping, 0:22:21.080 --> 0:22:24.650 and he's also demonstrated his storytelling and his lyrical prowess, 0:22:24.650 --> 0:22:26.899 which is the kind of level that he's on compared 0:22:26.900 --> 0:22:31.160 to a more pop commercial pop star like Drake. The 0:22:31.160 --> 0:22:33.110 kind of brief code and all of this is a 0:22:33.109 --> 0:22:35.780 track called The Heart Part six, which is the final 0:22:35.780 --> 0:22:39.710 track so far from Drake. He denies the pedophile allegations, 0:22:39.710 --> 0:22:43.160 but doesn't really land any new blows on Kendrick. So 0:22:43.160 --> 0:22:44.660 kind of takes us to where we are now, which 0:22:44.660 --> 0:22:48.740 is a lot of personal, vicious rumors aimed at each other, 0:22:48.740 --> 0:22:51.680 a lot of collateral damage for the people around them 0:22:51.680 --> 0:22:57.230 in their lives, and a feeling that Kendrick has essentially won, 0:22:57.230 --> 0:23:01.429 quote unquote, whatever that means. This feud. There's a lot 0:23:01.430 --> 0:23:04.250 of stuff going on, a lot of stuff to talk about. 0:23:04.280 --> 0:23:07.070 I think maybe where we can start is like, why 0:23:07.070 --> 0:23:10.370 this drew so much attention? I think aside from how 0:23:10.369 --> 0:23:13.940 big and successful and popular both of these guys are, 0:23:14.330 --> 0:23:16.730 the rapid fire way these songs are being released, like 0:23:16.730 --> 0:23:19.040 having 4 or 5 tracks released over the course of 0:23:19.040 --> 0:23:21.470 a weekend. Like Thomas, you and I were messaging at 0:23:21.470 --> 0:23:24.170 certain points about a track and then you're like, another 0:23:24.170 --> 0:23:27.830 track has just been released. And then also how dark 0:23:27.859 --> 0:23:30.650 a turn these allegations took. It feels like those two 0:23:30.650 --> 0:23:33.169 things just sort of brought so many more people in 0:23:33.170 --> 0:23:36.020 the periphery of hip hop into this feud over the 0:23:36.020 --> 0:23:40.520 past week. Just talk me through why this became so big. Thomas. 0:23:41.030 --> 0:23:43.340 Well, yeah, I think it really was the frequency. You know, 0:23:43.340 --> 0:23:46.369 like in previous hip hop feuds, you would wait, like, 0:23:46.369 --> 0:23:49.399 you know, whether it's NAS and Jay-Z or Tupac and 0:23:49.400 --> 0:23:51.050 Biggie and like the 90s, you'd have to wait like 0:23:51.050 --> 0:23:52.940 ages for them to go off and like, film a video. 0:23:52.940 --> 0:23:55.760 And it'd be like months between, you know, like hit 0:23:55.760 --> 0:23:58.369 him up versus who shot you. Whereas this was basically 0:23:58.369 --> 0:24:01.160 contained to like a 48 hour period across the weekend. 0:24:01.160 --> 0:24:03.380 And so I do think for a little while, you know, 0:24:03.380 --> 0:24:05.719 this feud was kind of existing on the fringes, like 0:24:05.720 --> 0:24:07.909 people who were really into hip hop were following it. 0:24:07.910 --> 0:24:10.790 But when it kind of like seized the momentum across 0:24:10.790 --> 0:24:12.890 the weekend and it was just like track after track 0:24:12.890 --> 0:24:15.350 after track, I think it did kind of bleed into 0:24:15.350 --> 0:24:17.000 the mainstream and suddenly people were like, well, hold on, 0:24:17.000 --> 0:24:19.129 why are these two guys like, what is going on here? 0:24:19.130 --> 0:24:21.650 And then and then like that, coinciding with the fact 0:24:21.650 --> 0:24:25.160 it became so personal and these like really intense, you know, 0:24:25.160 --> 0:24:27.800 allegations were being traded back and forth. And you know, 0:24:27.800 --> 0:24:29.780 there's been so much chat and I think this really 0:24:29.780 --> 0:24:32.359 plays into it, you know, of all these people saying like, oh, 0:24:32.359 --> 0:24:34.310 this is why hip hop fans finally get why the 0:24:34.310 --> 0:24:37.490 Swifties are so excited. Because like, this Easter egg culture 0:24:37.490 --> 0:24:39.950 that we're in now, where all of these songs featured 0:24:39.950 --> 0:24:42.560 like allegations or kind of like winks and nods about 0:24:42.560 --> 0:24:44.600 things going on. And so you kind of like, tapped 0:24:44.600 --> 0:24:47.090 into people's desire to go on the internet and be like, what? 0:24:47.090 --> 0:24:48.680 What are they talking about? What is going on here? 0:24:48.680 --> 0:24:51.680 So suddenly you had this, like volume of content being like, 0:24:51.680 --> 0:24:54.290 flooded into the internet. At the same time, people are 0:24:54.290 --> 0:24:57.200 like investigating to try and figure out what is going 0:24:57.200 --> 0:25:00.199 on and who's really like, you know, got the right 0:25:00.200 --> 0:25:02.359 Intel and everything. So it just kind of like this 0:25:02.359 --> 0:25:06.020 confluence of factors, I think, seize people's imagination. I don't know, 0:25:06.020 --> 0:25:08.359 that was my experience. I don't know, Mel, as someone 0:25:08.359 --> 0:25:11.570 who may not be as typically tapped in to, you know, 0:25:11.570 --> 0:25:15.169 this space, were you across it across the weekend? 0:25:15.170 --> 0:25:18.560 I was across it. Um, I mean, I think people 0:25:18.560 --> 0:25:21.739 also like a train wreck, like, I don't know, I 0:25:21.740 --> 0:25:24.410 think what we're seeing here is just both of these 0:25:24.410 --> 0:25:27.169 people going off the rails, particularly, as you mentioned, the 0:25:27.170 --> 0:25:30.680 claims got more and more intense. And I don't know, 0:25:30.680 --> 0:25:33.260 like I was interested in it. And obviously, if you 0:25:33.260 --> 0:25:35.630 recognize all the Easter eggs, you get something different out 0:25:35.630 --> 0:25:38.659 of this because you're understanding a lot more of the references. 0:25:38.660 --> 0:25:41.300 But I don't know, I just think it became really gross. 0:25:41.300 --> 0:25:43.669 And I do think, at least in some parts of 0:25:43.670 --> 0:25:46.070 the internet, maybe among people who aren't as rusted on 0:25:46.070 --> 0:25:48.650 hip hop fans, there's like a feeling that this is 0:25:48.650 --> 0:25:52.520 kind of gross and disgusting to watch. Um, I don't know. 0:25:52.520 --> 0:25:54.140 Do you guys feel that at all? Like, I know 0:25:54.140 --> 0:25:57.440 you're excited by the the songs and the music and, like, 0:25:57.440 --> 0:25:59.690 I get the lyrics, the kind of funny and interesting 0:25:59.690 --> 0:26:02.090 and clever at times. And the songs are legit songs 0:26:02.090 --> 0:26:03.980 on their own. But do you think there's a level 0:26:03.980 --> 0:26:06.020 of grossness to this? And yeah. 0:26:06.020 --> 0:26:07.340 Look, I want to I do want to get into that. 0:26:07.340 --> 0:26:09.080 I think if it's okay, we'll put a pin in 0:26:09.080 --> 0:26:10.850 that element of it for a second, because I do 0:26:10.850 --> 0:26:14.630 think there's a bit around the context to this before 0:26:14.630 --> 0:26:17.239 we sort of unpack when things may be spun out 0:26:17.240 --> 0:26:20.060 of control a little bit, I think. I think, Thomas, 0:26:20.060 --> 0:26:22.970 your point about Taylor Swift is, is really interesting because 0:26:22.970 --> 0:26:25.730 in some ways, this is the first feud in a 0:26:25.730 --> 0:26:30.200 kind of post Taylor Swift social media Reddit true crime 0:26:30.200 --> 0:26:33.859 era where like, you know, rap genius now just called genius. 0:26:33.859 --> 0:26:35.720 The website's been around for a long time where you can, like, 0:26:35.720 --> 0:26:38.120 look up hip hop songs and people can provide annotations 0:26:38.119 --> 0:26:40.639 and things, but the level of analysis people were doing 0:26:40.640 --> 0:26:43.790 seemed out of control. Like the tracks 616 in LA, 0:26:43.820 --> 0:26:47.240 people are like oh 616. That's a reference to Father's 0:26:47.240 --> 0:26:49.820 Day in Canada. That's a reference to the date. The 0:26:49.820 --> 0:26:52.760 first season of euphoria, the TV show about high schoolers 0:26:52.760 --> 0:26:55.760 having sex that Drake executive produced, came out. That's also 0:26:55.760 --> 0:26:57.800 a reference to a biblical verse. It's also a reference 0:26:57.800 --> 0:26:59.570 to like. It could be a reference to one of 0:26:59.570 --> 0:27:02.000 these things. It could be a reference to three of 0:27:02.000 --> 0:27:04.129 them or none of them. I think there's an element 0:27:04.130 --> 0:27:06.889 of just people creating their own lore around this stuff 0:27:06.890 --> 0:27:09.830 that just grows and grows and grows and snowballs, and 0:27:09.830 --> 0:27:12.080 I think it's a really smart comparison to sort of 0:27:12.080 --> 0:27:15.800 put that in the frame. And as ludicrous as it sounds, 0:27:15.800 --> 0:27:18.409 the way that Swift has sort of trained music fans 0:27:18.410 --> 0:27:21.980 and others to think about music and lyrics. But one 0:27:21.980 --> 0:27:23.720 of the things I want to ask you, Thomas, is 0:27:23.720 --> 0:27:28.580 whether you think this was ever a real or fair 0:27:28.580 --> 0:27:34.340 rap battle feud. These are two very different kinds of rappers. 0:27:34.340 --> 0:27:36.260 You laid it out very well at the start. Drake 0:27:36.260 --> 0:27:38.689 is much more poppy, much more commercial. Kendrick is more 0:27:38.690 --> 0:27:42.530 known for his incredibly complex rhymes, his storytelling. That's the 0:27:42.530 --> 0:27:45.650 kind of thing that generally wins you a rap beef. 0:27:45.650 --> 0:27:47.389 Do you think he was always going to come out 0:27:47.390 --> 0:27:49.220 on top? Were there moments in which you thought Drake 0:27:49.220 --> 0:27:50.420 had the upper hand here? 0:27:51.530 --> 0:27:55.700 Uh, I mean, it's hard because there's so many quantifiers. 0:27:56.030 --> 0:28:01.399 I love Drake, as you know, obviously pre potentially. Sex offender. Drake, I. 0:28:01.400 --> 0:28:03.889 Believe you said to me that you're the Drake of journalism. 0:28:03.890 --> 0:28:05.600 I know you said that to about me. 0:28:06.080 --> 0:28:08.060 You were raised. You were raised in the clubs of 0:28:08.060 --> 0:28:11.330 Sydney in the late 20 tens. It makes sense. It 0:28:11.330 --> 0:28:12.080 makes sense. Exactly. 0:28:12.080 --> 0:28:13.970 Take care is a special album. No. But like, I 0:28:13.970 --> 0:28:19.360 think I did think that generally there was a. Consensus 0:28:19.359 --> 0:28:23.020 that Kendrick was winning from the start and he was 0:28:23.020 --> 0:28:26.109 always going to win. But when Drake dropped Family Matters 0:28:26.109 --> 0:28:30.850 on Saturday morning, I think people saw a slight momentum 0:28:30.850 --> 0:28:32.590 shift and I say slight because it lasted all of 0:28:32.590 --> 0:28:35.800 20 minutes because it was it was a I think 0:28:35.800 --> 0:28:37.270 it was a pretty like hard hitting song. And he 0:28:37.270 --> 0:28:40.420 also recorded a video with it like, you know, really impressive, 0:28:40.420 --> 0:28:43.420 like production values. He kind of went all out, probably 0:28:43.420 --> 0:28:46.300 not anticipating that Kendrick would like, cut his legs out 0:28:46.300 --> 0:28:46.810 for two more. 0:28:46.810 --> 0:28:48.970 In the chamber, ready to go straight away. 0:28:48.970 --> 0:28:52.000 But I mean, my personal take is that obviously before 0:28:52.000 --> 0:28:54.280 things did get really problematic and weird and I was 0:28:54.280 --> 0:28:56.920 kind of like enjoying the drama of this beef for 0:28:56.920 --> 0:29:00.250 what it was like. There is this mentality in the 0:29:00.250 --> 0:29:03.250 hip hop world that, you know, the critical bar for 0:29:03.250 --> 0:29:05.500 someone like Drake is so much higher than what people 0:29:05.500 --> 0:29:08.620 expect for Kendrick. Like, you know, Drake literally raps in 0:29:08.620 --> 0:29:11.110 Family Matters. Like Kendrick just opened his mouth. Somebody hand 0:29:11.110 --> 0:29:13.270 him a Grammy right now. And that is like, there's 0:29:13.270 --> 0:29:15.160 a lot of truth in that joke. I think Kendrick 0:29:15.160 --> 0:29:18.130 can kind of like, do something or say anything that 0:29:18.130 --> 0:29:20.440 and people will just fall over themselves to say how 0:29:20.440 --> 0:29:23.770 amazing and smart he is. And so I again, before 0:29:23.770 --> 0:29:26.110 things got really weird, I was kind of impressed that 0:29:26.110 --> 0:29:28.660 Drake did decide to take this on, and I thought 0:29:28.660 --> 0:29:30.130 he was doing pretty well. And I thought when Family 0:29:30.130 --> 0:29:32.050 Matters came out, he kind of took the lead. You know, 0:29:32.050 --> 0:29:35.230 you've got Kendrick as this really earnest rapper who is 0:29:35.230 --> 0:29:38.770 so serious, and Drake is the absolute embodiment of internet culture. 0:29:38.770 --> 0:29:40.900 He responded to most of the tracks with just like 0:29:40.900 --> 0:29:43.840 funny memes on the internet that people thought were really good, 0:29:43.840 --> 0:29:45.940 and he was like, needling Kendrick. And and I said 0:29:45.940 --> 0:29:48.370 to you over the weekend, I was like, stepping out 0:29:48.370 --> 0:29:50.170 of this. It really is a funny thing to watch 0:29:50.170 --> 0:29:52.960 because Drake is the perfect foil for someone like Kendrick. 0:29:52.960 --> 0:29:56.650 He he's mean, he's gossipy, he's funny. He's just like, 0:29:56.650 --> 0:29:59.560 you know, snide remarks. Whereas Kendrick is like really, you know, 0:29:59.560 --> 0:30:02.530 self-serving and really serious. And so it made for a 0:30:02.530 --> 0:30:05.050 great feud. And I personally thought when Family Matters came out, 0:30:05.050 --> 0:30:06.790 I was like, oh, Drake actually is holding his own 0:30:06.790 --> 0:30:08.680 here against someone who people are going to be really 0:30:08.680 --> 0:30:11.950 quick to give the win anyway. Obviously. Kendrick then released 0:30:11.950 --> 0:30:14.290 two more tracks, especially Not Like Us. I think really 0:30:14.290 --> 0:30:16.540 like killed the feud off, and also took it into 0:30:16.540 --> 0:30:19.360 an area where even the kind of casual observers or 0:30:19.360 --> 0:30:21.340 the people really invested, like you and I, who were 0:30:21.340 --> 0:30:23.410 enjoying it for what it kind of was, it started 0:30:23.410 --> 0:30:26.080 to become harder to get hyped about it because it 0:30:26.080 --> 0:30:26.710 felt just like. 0:30:26.710 --> 0:30:29.140 It's like The Simpsons meme like, stop, he's already dead, 0:30:29.140 --> 0:30:29.380 you know? 0:30:29.380 --> 0:30:32.110 Yeah, exactly. But yeah, I generally think it was an 0:30:32.110 --> 0:30:35.080 interesting reflection for a while, at least that, you know, 0:30:35.170 --> 0:30:38.140 Drake was up against it from the get go. He 0:30:38.140 --> 0:30:40.210 was behind the eight ball. He is seen as this 0:30:40.210 --> 0:30:43.120 dumb pop rapper. And I was like, ah, I think 0:30:43.120 --> 0:30:45.340 he gets points for like going into this and holding 0:30:45.340 --> 0:30:46.120 his own. Yeah. 0:30:46.120 --> 0:30:48.250 I think that's why Mel and like, I promise you, 0:30:48.250 --> 0:30:49.990 we will talk about when things got weird, but I 0:30:49.990 --> 0:30:52.720 think I just wanted to set a little bit on 0:30:52.720 --> 0:30:54.970 the bits of the feud that sort of, you know, 0:30:54.970 --> 0:30:57.790 felt more reminiscent of, of rap feuds of old because 0:30:57.790 --> 0:30:59.950 this has been a part of hip hop for so long, 0:30:59.950 --> 0:31:02.470 and maybe for people really outside of the culture, watching 0:31:02.500 --> 0:31:06.400 two men in their like, late 30s trade barbs seems weird, 0:31:06.400 --> 0:31:09.160 but this has been in hip hop's DNA from day one, 0:31:09.160 --> 0:31:11.470 whether it is the East Coast, West Coast stuff, whether 0:31:11.470 --> 0:31:14.290 it was the gangsta rap versus conscious rap stuff in 0:31:14.290 --> 0:31:17.590 the 2000, the postcode wars in the drill scene in 0:31:17.590 --> 0:31:20.620 UK and Australia, a large part of rap has been 0:31:20.620 --> 0:31:22.510 people sort of like taking shots at one another, and 0:31:22.510 --> 0:31:26.440 it's always strayed a bit into like weird territory. Like 0:31:26.440 --> 0:31:28.960 in the 90s and 2000, there was a lot of homophobia, 0:31:28.960 --> 0:31:30.970 there was a lot of accusations of people sleeping with 0:31:30.970 --> 0:31:34.150 one another's wives. That's always been part of it. A 0:31:34.150 --> 0:31:35.530 lot of it, you know, that I think is the 0:31:35.530 --> 0:31:37.930 most interesting for for people like Thomas Knight probably is 0:31:37.930 --> 0:31:40.120 when they make fun of each other or take shots 0:31:40.120 --> 0:31:41.560 at each other for the music that they make. Like 0:31:41.560 --> 0:31:44.230 the other Drake line I thought was interesting was, you know, 0:31:44.230 --> 0:31:46.510 Drake said, Kendrick's always rapping like he's about to get 0:31:46.510 --> 0:31:49.120 the slaves freed. Kendrick hit back hard on that, but 0:31:49.120 --> 0:31:53.200 it's like, that's funny, memorable sort of lines that reflect 0:31:53.200 --> 0:31:54.729 where each other are. And it's sort of, if you 0:31:54.730 --> 0:32:00.130 take it in, uh, spirit of competition, it doesn't feel crazy. Like, 0:32:00.130 --> 0:32:03.220 you know, we had Scribble Jam, like hip hop tournaments. 0:32:03.220 --> 0:32:06.670 Rap battles were a place where rappers emerged and established 0:32:06.670 --> 0:32:09.580 their credentials. So evaluating it on that level for a bit, 0:32:09.580 --> 0:32:12.310 I think is is interesting. And then, yes, I think 0:32:12.310 --> 0:32:14.380 we do need to talk about whether it went a 0:32:14.380 --> 0:32:19.100 little bit kind of unhinged. But there's there's it feels 0:32:19.100 --> 0:32:21.080 like Thomas says more going on here as well. Like 0:32:21.080 --> 0:32:24.800 there is this long term animosity that a lot of 0:32:24.800 --> 0:32:28.220 rappers seem to have towards Drake, and a lot of 0:32:28.220 --> 0:32:31.790 that really came to the fore with some pretty explicit stuff, 0:32:31.790 --> 0:32:34.400 Kendrick was saying. No need to get into like all 0:32:34.400 --> 0:32:36.110 the details. There are some people who say that this 0:32:36.110 --> 0:32:39.680 goes back to 2002, when a rapper called Birdman didn't 0:32:39.680 --> 0:32:42.470 pay Pharrell for a beat. Believe it or not, there 0:32:42.470 --> 0:32:44.570 is like a family tree that shows how you go 0:32:44.570 --> 0:32:48.050 from Birdman on one hand to Drake and Pharrell to 0:32:48.050 --> 0:32:49.520 push a T and all this sort of stuff. So 0:32:49.520 --> 0:32:53.360 there's like lots of history here as well. But Drake 0:32:53.360 --> 0:32:56.840 has been the subject of big disses from big rappers 0:32:56.840 --> 0:32:59.660 for a while, like Meek Mill. Uh, Philly rapper had 0:32:59.660 --> 0:33:02.180 a go at him for using ghostwriters. Probably the biggest 0:33:02.180 --> 0:33:06.290 thing that happened before this feud was Pusha T revealing 0:33:06.290 --> 0:33:08.510 on his diss track Story of Adidon that Drake had 0:33:08.510 --> 0:33:11.120 a kid like that is how the world found out 0:33:11.120 --> 0:33:14.090 that Drake had a secret son. And for a rapper 0:33:14.090 --> 0:33:18.020 that really projected this sort of soft boy image, and 0:33:18.170 --> 0:33:20.479 always at the clubs waiting for a text back that 0:33:20.480 --> 0:33:24.830 seemed to really shift the narrative around him. I think 0:33:24.830 --> 0:33:26.959 the other part of this, and Kendrick addresses this head on, 0:33:26.960 --> 0:33:29.300 and I think probably not, none of us are the 0:33:29.300 --> 0:33:31.520 right people to talk about this in detail, but it 0:33:31.520 --> 0:33:35.060 is worth mentioning that Drake, unlike Kendrick, has a mixed 0:33:35.060 --> 0:33:39.290 race background. He has faced accusations of being like a 0:33:39.290 --> 0:33:42.920 culture vulture of leaning into blackness when it suits him 0:33:42.920 --> 0:33:46.850 without paying proper respect. Kendrick mentions that a number of 0:33:46.850 --> 0:33:49.310 times in these disses, he talks about the way Drake 0:33:49.310 --> 0:33:50.780 says the N word. He doesn't like the way he 0:33:50.780 --> 0:33:52.610 says the N word. He talks about when Drake goes 0:33:52.610 --> 0:33:56.930 to Atlanta, kind of like a modern capital of current 0:33:56.930 --> 0:34:01.220 southern hip hop, and goes there to get credibility and 0:34:01.220 --> 0:34:04.610 cultural clout by working with artists like Migos. There is 0:34:04.610 --> 0:34:07.760 a pretty intense racial dynamic to this as well. And 0:34:07.760 --> 0:34:10.100 people point out, well, J. Cole is also mixed race, 0:34:10.100 --> 0:34:12.589 but the response there is, well, J Cole doesn't seem 0:34:12.590 --> 0:34:14.540 to pick and choose as much like Drake has done 0:34:14.540 --> 0:34:16.520 this for a long time. When he went to London 0:34:16.520 --> 0:34:19.340 and started borrowing that sort of south London sound, and 0:34:19.340 --> 0:34:21.470 it's one of the first times someone's just laid it 0:34:21.469 --> 0:34:24.890 out super, super explicitly. So it does feel like there's 0:34:24.890 --> 0:34:27.560 this pent up anger from a lot of the hip 0:34:27.560 --> 0:34:29.810 hop scene to someone like Drake, who has become so 0:34:29.810 --> 0:34:32.930 commercial by being able to pick and choose what his 0:34:32.930 --> 0:34:35.810 kind of racial context is at different times. Is that 0:34:35.810 --> 0:34:36.560 fair to say? 0:34:36.920 --> 0:34:38.780 Yeah, I think so, because it's always been this thing, 0:34:38.780 --> 0:34:40.940 especially in the last like probably 20 years of these 0:34:40.940 --> 0:34:43.040 like fans who feel like they need to like, safeguard 0:34:43.040 --> 0:34:45.859 the true honor of hip hop and what it really 0:34:45.860 --> 0:34:48.230 means and what it's really supposed to be. But at 0:34:48.230 --> 0:34:51.320 the same time, that mentality has had to deal with 0:34:51.320 --> 0:34:53.750 the fact that hip hop and I guess, like the 0:34:53.750 --> 0:34:56.149 wider black culture, has become one of the most popular 0:34:56.150 --> 0:34:58.910 like genres of music in the whole world. And, you know, 0:34:58.910 --> 0:35:01.700 we've had so many conversations on this podcast about like, 0:35:01.700 --> 0:35:03.919 for instance, the rise of country music and how you 0:35:03.920 --> 0:35:06.799 know what, who gets to own, you know, a genre. 0:35:06.800 --> 0:35:08.990 And I think a lot of like, purist hip hop 0:35:08.989 --> 0:35:11.450 fans have struggled with the likes of Drake, who are 0:35:11.450 --> 0:35:14.330 kind of like bonafide pop stars, but also like rappers 0:35:14.330 --> 0:35:17.750 and hip hop. And and there has always been this, like, simmering, 0:35:17.750 --> 0:35:20.330 you know, tension around Drake. I feel like he spent 0:35:20.330 --> 0:35:22.520 a really long time at the start of his career 0:35:22.520 --> 0:35:24.950 battling it, and kind of like trying to prove to 0:35:24.950 --> 0:35:27.020 people that he wasn't just like this punchline rapper who 0:35:27.020 --> 0:35:29.000 could be made fun of. And for a long time 0:35:29.000 --> 0:35:31.430 he was like that sensitive, soft boy. And I feel 0:35:31.430 --> 0:35:34.040 like despite, you know, the constant accusations around that, he 0:35:34.040 --> 0:35:36.620 kind of just because of the sheer volume of his hits, 0:35:36.620 --> 0:35:38.779 he kind of, I guess, like managed to hold on 0:35:38.780 --> 0:35:41.360 to some kind of cred. But there was always that 0:35:41.360 --> 0:35:43.969 feeling around him that he wasn't legit. Um, you know, 0:35:43.969 --> 0:35:46.009 in the, in the true hip hop sense. And I 0:35:46.010 --> 0:35:48.980 still don't really know how I feel about like that 0:35:48.980 --> 0:35:51.469 mentality for the genre. Is it a good thing that 0:35:51.469 --> 0:35:54.200 we still, you know, in this day and age, believe 0:35:54.200 --> 0:35:56.780 that you should try and hold on to like, what 0:35:56.780 --> 0:35:59.330 the genre used to be 20, 30 years ago. Like 0:35:59.330 --> 0:36:02.030 things change, things develop. And, you know, we just have 0:36:02.030 --> 0:36:04.250 to accept that. But I do think this whole thing 0:36:04.250 --> 0:36:06.830 has been a flashpoint then for Kendrick to kind of like, 0:36:06.830 --> 0:36:09.080 speak into the echo chamber of all these people who 0:36:09.080 --> 0:36:10.850 already thought all this about Drake and be like, you know, 0:36:10.850 --> 0:36:13.460 you're mixed race. You say the N word when you shouldn't. 0:36:13.460 --> 0:36:16.489 You're basically a pop star who likes to rap occasionally, 0:36:16.489 --> 0:36:19.310 you know? And also you take a pic. Hahaha. But 0:36:19.310 --> 0:36:22.070 but yeah, like, it just kind of like lit a 0:36:22.070 --> 0:36:23.960 fuse that was already waiting to blow. 0:36:23.960 --> 0:36:25.670 I mean, I think as, as mentioned, those questions of 0:36:25.670 --> 0:36:28.640 authenticity have always been built into hip hop, and I 0:36:28.640 --> 0:36:31.730 think those questions always come to the fore when you 0:36:31.730 --> 0:36:35.180 see art that starts as quote unquote outsider art outside 0:36:35.180 --> 0:36:38.000 of the mainstream become part of the mainstream. So when 0:36:38.000 --> 0:36:41.629 you have kids who grew up, you know, on the streets, 0:36:41.630 --> 0:36:46.190 suddenly become billionaires, those questions of authenticity kind of are 0:36:46.190 --> 0:36:49.399 inherently going to arise, because what made the art form, 0:36:49.400 --> 0:36:51.560 what it is, is no longer there. So I think 0:36:51.560 --> 0:36:55.190 like the change is inevitable in many ways, but those 0:36:55.190 --> 0:36:58.070 questions have still kind of lingered. I don't know if 0:36:58.070 --> 0:37:00.620 there is, like you said, you don't know what you 0:37:00.620 --> 0:37:03.590 think is right or wrong, but maybe everyone's authentic is 0:37:03.590 --> 0:37:05.510 very different. You know what I mean? 0:37:05.510 --> 0:37:07.219 Yeah, I feel like I feel like the issue here 0:37:07.219 --> 0:37:10.040 is like, obviously there's space in this world for a 0:37:10.040 --> 0:37:12.260 Drake and a Kendrick to exist. And I kind of 0:37:12.260 --> 0:37:14.930 think Drake, I think it was a weird move for 0:37:14.930 --> 0:37:18.370 Drake to involve himself in a rap feud, like. Because. 0:37:19.210 --> 0:37:22.240 When you go like hip hop has evolved, it's changed. 0:37:22.239 --> 0:37:24.430 There's all these different forms of it now as well. 0:37:24.430 --> 0:37:27.969 But the format of a rap beef is like stripping 0:37:27.969 --> 0:37:29.770 all of that away and you're just going toe to 0:37:29.770 --> 0:37:32.830 toe bar for bar. Two people trying to prove how 0:37:32.830 --> 0:37:35.470 real and authentic and brutal they can be to one another. 0:37:35.469 --> 0:37:37.840 And in that context, a guy who grew up in 0:37:37.840 --> 0:37:41.020 the suburbs of Toronto became famous for being a child 0:37:41.020 --> 0:37:45.010 star on Degrassi Junior High, was never going to beat 0:37:45.010 --> 0:37:47.950 someone who grew up in Compton, who raps about seeing 0:37:47.950 --> 0:37:50.230 his first execution on the street when he was nine 0:37:50.230 --> 0:37:53.260 years old. Like that just there's no format of a 0:37:53.260 --> 0:37:55.989 rap feud where Drake would have won from that, and 0:37:55.989 --> 0:37:58.089 maybe it's like good on him for at least trying. 0:37:58.090 --> 0:38:01.480 But it's like you're in a different world. Be happy 0:38:01.480 --> 0:38:04.690 in that world like no one asks you to. To 0:38:04.690 --> 0:38:09.279 respond to the pretty soft initial Drake diss saying that 0:38:09.280 --> 0:38:11.620 he was, you know, it was big me, not big three. 0:38:11.620 --> 0:38:14.739 I find that to be a strange decision for Drake. 0:38:14.739 --> 0:38:16.899 Maybe he thought the payoff is I'll get a bunch 0:38:16.900 --> 0:38:20.320 of streams, but then the risk is, well, actually, you're 0:38:20.320 --> 0:38:22.810 in a weaker position than you were before you entered it. 0:38:22.810 --> 0:38:27.580 Because now everyone thinks you're an alleged sex criminal. It 0:38:27.580 --> 0:38:28.990 just doesn't seem to have worked out. 0:38:28.989 --> 0:38:31.630 Yeah, but, like, how hard is it to, you know, 0:38:31.630 --> 0:38:33.100 it's easy for us to sit here and say that. 0:38:33.100 --> 0:38:35.470 But this is a guy who, you know, is like, 0:38:35.469 --> 0:38:37.300 basically on top of the music world. As I said before, 0:38:37.300 --> 0:38:39.640 signed the largest publishing deal in history like a few 0:38:39.640 --> 0:38:42.640 years ago with universal. Everything and everyone around him is 0:38:42.640 --> 0:38:45.489 telling him he's probably the greatest rapper to have ever lived. Like, 0:38:45.489 --> 0:38:48.670 do you think he's got any perspective left to not 0:38:48.790 --> 0:38:51.100 have the ego to involve himself in this? Like, of 0:38:51.100 --> 0:38:54.129 course he doesn't like, you know, and again, I think, 0:38:54.130 --> 0:38:56.170 you know, probably he saw this as an opportunity to 0:38:56.170 --> 0:38:59.049 be like, wow, all the things I haven't conquered. Maybe 0:38:59.050 --> 0:39:02.080 I could take on the one guy that people really 0:39:02.080 --> 0:39:04.840 see as like above me right now in terms of 0:39:04.840 --> 0:39:08.259 credibility or, you know, just like bankability like Kendrick has 0:39:08.260 --> 0:39:10.360 always had that kind of mystique. And, you know, like 0:39:10.360 --> 0:39:13.930 I said, that almost like the Tupac Shakur thing around 0:39:13.930 --> 0:39:16.330 him where like, everyone just universally is like, well, Kendrick 0:39:16.330 --> 0:39:19.149 is the man. And, you know, yeah, I definitely see 0:39:19.150 --> 0:39:22.000 a reality where Drake is so high on his own 0:39:22.000 --> 0:39:24.759 success that, you know, there was never a world where 0:39:24.760 --> 0:39:26.560 he could have, like, not touched this. 0:39:36.630 --> 0:39:38.730 Let's talk about where things got really dark. And I 0:39:38.730 --> 0:39:41.700 think this is probably where a lot of people either 0:39:41.700 --> 0:39:45.480 switched off or really switched in, just because of how crazy, 0:39:45.480 --> 0:39:50.070 outlandish things were getting. Lots of women as collateral damage. 0:39:50.070 --> 0:39:52.440 Like that's that seems to be one of the clear, 0:39:52.440 --> 0:39:55.890 like big criticisms of this feud, even from hip hop 0:39:55.890 --> 0:40:01.920 writers in the States. Drake accusing Kendrick of abusing his wife. 0:40:02.070 --> 0:40:05.400 Kendrick saying that Drake has a daughter. Kendrick saying that 0:40:05.400 --> 0:40:09.660 he sleeps with underage children. Bizarrely, he didn't mention anyone 0:40:09.660 --> 0:40:11.550 by name, and then Drake went out of his way 0:40:11.550 --> 0:40:15.180 to mention Millie Bobby Brown, who is a she's obviously 0:40:15.180 --> 0:40:17.040 the actress from Stranger Things, and there's been all sorts 0:40:17.040 --> 0:40:19.680 of weird rumors around that after she, I think she 0:40:19.680 --> 0:40:22.500 was 15, said that she was texting Drake and he 0:40:22.500 --> 0:40:25.290 was giving her advice on dating. That was all very odd. 0:40:25.290 --> 0:40:27.719 That wasn't mentioned by name by Kendrick, but then Drake 0:40:27.719 --> 0:40:30.210 sort of brought her into it like this, did, then 0:40:30.210 --> 0:40:33.480 bring in a lot of people who clearly weren't choosing 0:40:33.480 --> 0:40:36.390 to be a part of it. I'll admit that, like 0:40:36.390 --> 0:40:38.580 while it was going on, I wasn't saying this is 0:40:38.580 --> 0:40:40.200 out of control. This is crazy. I just thought it 0:40:40.200 --> 0:40:43.020 was astonishing to see two of the biggest stars on 0:40:43.020 --> 0:40:46.980 the planet just say stuff and be willing to say 0:40:46.980 --> 0:40:50.040 it and double down and go after one another. And 0:40:50.040 --> 0:40:52.920 in some ways, I thought it was if you accept 0:40:52.920 --> 0:40:55.169 that a lot of rap and a lot of rap 0:40:55.170 --> 0:40:57.930 beefs are kind of fictionalized, they're heightened and you just 0:40:57.930 --> 0:41:01.020 sort of say exaggerated things to get attention. Didn't think 0:41:01.020 --> 0:41:03.150 in the moment it was that out of control. But 0:41:03.150 --> 0:41:04.830 when you look at it in the cold light of 0:41:04.860 --> 0:41:06.779 day and you're like, oh, the body count is piled 0:41:06.780 --> 0:41:09.390 up here, there's a lot of innocent parties to this 0:41:09.390 --> 0:41:13.920 who just, like, would feel really shit about being used 0:41:13.920 --> 0:41:18.399 in this particular way. I guess that's how you feel, Mel. 0:41:18.430 --> 0:41:20.980 Judging by what you were saying before, I really. 0:41:20.980 --> 0:41:23.890 I was invested and enjoyed this when the attacks were 0:41:23.890 --> 0:41:28.000 about each other's art, creativity, authenticity. But then all of 0:41:28.000 --> 0:41:31.000 a sudden, when these kind of wild claims got brought 0:41:31.000 --> 0:41:34.210 into it, it took a very dark turn. And on 0:41:34.210 --> 0:41:36.969 one part, on one hand, I'm like, it's good that 0:41:36.969 --> 0:41:40.060 being a kind of beating up your wife or having 0:41:40.060 --> 0:41:43.420 sex with underage girls is considered bad, and that they're 0:41:43.420 --> 0:41:45.940 saying it's a diss, like that's that's good on one level. 0:41:45.940 --> 0:41:50.620 But there is something that feels quite wrong in weaponizing these, 0:41:50.620 --> 0:41:55.480 these very serious kind of issues in, in a battle 0:41:55.480 --> 0:41:58.570 of this format. Like it's not really paying attention to 0:41:58.570 --> 0:42:01.150 the victims in any way, and it's just using these 0:42:01.150 --> 0:42:03.130 claims to kind of one up each other. I think 0:42:03.130 --> 0:42:06.670 that's what is uncomfortable about it reducing these kind of 0:42:06.670 --> 0:42:09.250 quite serious things to a disk, quote unquote. 0:42:09.250 --> 0:42:10.780 And a lot of people have pointed out, you know, 0:42:10.780 --> 0:42:15.190 for all of Drake's allegations about Kendrick being abusive, he 0:42:15.190 --> 0:42:18.040 is a very public supporter of Tory Lanez, who was 0:42:18.040 --> 0:42:20.589 convicted of shooting Megan Thee Stallion. Like, it's not like 0:42:20.590 --> 0:42:23.500 Drake has moral high ground here necessarily. I wonder whether 0:42:23.500 --> 0:42:26.170 part of it is also, you know, in an era 0:42:26.170 --> 0:42:28.450 without the internet where people just sort of say vague 0:42:28.450 --> 0:42:31.360 things about like, you're an abuser, you're this, you're that. 0:42:31.360 --> 0:42:33.550 It's sort of like it floats away and you don't 0:42:33.550 --> 0:42:35.830 really know who they're talking about. If it's a specific thing, 0:42:35.830 --> 0:42:38.680 is it a current thing? But as Thomas was saying earlier, 0:42:38.680 --> 0:42:41.830 now it's like this land of Easter eggs where you like, okay, 0:42:41.830 --> 0:42:45.130 this is a reference to this particular individual. I've resurfaced 0:42:45.130 --> 0:42:47.170 the TikTok video from 12 years ago. That's what this 0:42:47.170 --> 0:42:51.310 is about. So you can actually name specific people who 0:42:51.310 --> 0:42:54.760 rappers are maybe just intending to be metaphors or punchlines 0:42:54.760 --> 0:42:55.990 for a bigger point. 0:42:56.730 --> 0:43:00.030 Yeah. I mean I am interested to about I guess 0:43:00.030 --> 0:43:01.710 none of them are going to to the courts to 0:43:01.710 --> 0:43:04.080 sue for libel, but it is kind of incredible the 0:43:04.080 --> 0:43:06.660 things you can, um, you can put inverse. 0:43:06.660 --> 0:43:09.089 Yeah. I mean, it's it's gotten to a weird place. 0:43:09.090 --> 0:43:10.680 And I think, you know, one of the big criticisms 0:43:10.680 --> 0:43:13.709 has been like, you know, if if Kendrick has long 0:43:13.710 --> 0:43:16.140 suspected it or has information that Drake is running a 0:43:16.140 --> 0:43:18.540 sex trafficking ring in his Toronto mansion, like, why hasn't 0:43:18.540 --> 0:43:20.460 he brought this up earlier with the authorities and not 0:43:20.460 --> 0:43:23.040 saved it for a rap beef? And like, similar with Drake, 0:43:23.040 --> 0:43:25.169 you know, like if he has proof that Kendrick like 0:43:25.170 --> 0:43:27.390 it's obviously these things would never happen. But it's just 0:43:27.390 --> 0:43:31.049 like when you think about the seriousness of these allegations 0:43:31.050 --> 0:43:32.370 and they're only ever being brought up for the. 0:43:32.370 --> 0:43:33.780 Snitches get stitches. Tom. 0:43:33.780 --> 0:43:35.610 Yeah, it's interesting. I mean, like I think that's part 0:43:35.610 --> 0:43:37.650 of it. Also, it's like they wouldn't go to the police, 0:43:37.650 --> 0:43:39.239 but they want to sort of prove that they know 0:43:39.239 --> 0:43:41.940 these things and that they're better than the other person. 0:43:41.940 --> 0:43:44.190 But yeah, okay. Maybe for like a sex trafficking ring, 0:43:44.190 --> 0:43:47.670 if Kendrick really thinks there's like 114 year olds in 0:43:47.670 --> 0:43:52.080 Drake's mansion, maybe don't sit on that until 2024. You know, until. 0:43:52.170 --> 0:43:53.819 You happen to find yourself in a rap beef where 0:43:53.820 --> 0:43:55.980 it would make for a really convenient punchline. So I 0:43:55.980 --> 0:43:58.260 think that can, combined with the fact that it all 0:43:58.260 --> 0:44:02.700 just got so dark, like, I'm not like us, you know? Yeah, 0:44:02.700 --> 0:44:05.160 as I said, I think we've both been very, you know, 0:44:05.160 --> 0:44:08.310 keen observers and enjoying this for what it was. But 0:44:08.310 --> 0:44:11.010 everyone I know that was really into it found themselves 0:44:11.010 --> 0:44:12.719 increasingly like, it's like, how do you how are you 0:44:12.719 --> 0:44:15.149 supposed to respond to this? Like, I was genuinely really 0:44:15.150 --> 0:44:17.819 interested to hear each new track, but as they got 0:44:17.820 --> 0:44:19.830 more and more like, you know, there was more and 0:44:19.830 --> 0:44:22.260 more collateral damage piling up, I was like, oh, I 0:44:22.260 --> 0:44:24.989 don't know quite how to feel. At the end of 0:44:24.989 --> 0:44:28.049 the day, when you look at the reality of this feud, like, 0:44:28.050 --> 0:44:32.040 as I've said earlier, Drake belongs to Universal Music, and 0:44:32.040 --> 0:44:35.790 Kendrick in 2020 signed a publishing deal with Universal Music, 0:44:35.790 --> 0:44:38.160 so his music is distributed by them. So at the 0:44:38.160 --> 0:44:40.410 end of the day, both of these guys are making 0:44:40.410 --> 0:44:42.660 money for the same company, which renders the whole thing 0:44:42.660 --> 0:44:45.720 a little bit crazy. Like if you check the stream count, 0:44:45.719 --> 0:44:48.150 these songs are like rocketing up. These guys are making 0:44:48.150 --> 0:44:50.850 bank off this, even as all these people who didn't 0:44:50.850 --> 0:44:53.730 ask to be involved are now dragged into it. But really, 0:44:53.730 --> 0:44:57.660 it's universal music, this enormous conglomeration that's like the only 0:44:57.660 --> 0:44:58.620 one winning well. 0:44:58.620 --> 0:45:00.360 And both of them, and like we've talked about it 0:45:00.360 --> 0:45:03.060 quite a bit on the pod about hip hop's kind 0:45:03.060 --> 0:45:05.250 of how you often speak about how there's not much 0:45:05.250 --> 0:45:07.020 going on in hip hop that you find exciting, and 0:45:07.020 --> 0:45:08.549 all of a sudden, look at us, we're talking about 0:45:08.550 --> 0:45:10.410 hip hop. It's exciting. So yeah, I'm sorry. 0:45:10.410 --> 0:45:12.060 To all my country friends, I'm out. 0:45:12.060 --> 0:45:15.870 I'm out until Morgan Wallen, like, smashes Luke Combs in 0:45:15.870 --> 0:45:16.739 the head with a guitar. 0:45:17.520 --> 0:45:19.470 Well, the other the other rapper that's weighed in on 0:45:19.469 --> 0:45:21.990 this one who's also signed to universal is Vince Staples, 0:45:21.989 --> 0:45:24.779 who is sort of like the conscience of of our 0:45:24.780 --> 0:45:27.390 times right now. He he sort of made the point. Look, 0:45:27.390 --> 0:45:29.549 universal is making coin of all of this. Universal has 0:45:29.550 --> 0:45:31.800 collapsed all these labels that brought up that really cared 0:45:31.800 --> 0:45:35.190 about black music, black communities, they don't care about that anymore. 0:45:35.190 --> 0:45:37.469 Hip hop is struggling like this is a real thing. 0:45:37.469 --> 0:45:39.660 I think the other part of this, I think you're right, Mel, that, 0:45:39.660 --> 0:45:41.940 you know, hip hop is in a not very strong 0:45:41.940 --> 0:45:44.969 position in, in the US, at least right now. And 0:45:44.969 --> 0:45:46.860 a large part of that or a significant part of 0:45:46.860 --> 0:45:49.140 that has to do with the way that music labels 0:45:49.140 --> 0:45:52.469 are just not nurturing or supporting or encouraging talent in 0:45:52.469 --> 0:45:54.210 the way that they used to, partly because there aren't 0:45:54.210 --> 0:45:57.690 that many specific hip hop labels left. And Vince is saying, 0:45:57.690 --> 0:46:00.000 you know, hey, Taylor Swift's got clout. You know what 0:46:00.000 --> 0:46:02.730 she talks about? She talks about the plight of artists 0:46:02.730 --> 0:46:05.250 and how to get more money for artists. These guys 0:46:05.250 --> 0:46:09.510 have enormous power and money and profile, and they are 0:46:09.510 --> 0:46:12.180 not talking about any of these issues that impact the 0:46:12.180 --> 0:46:14.460 wider hip hop scene, which I thought was a really 0:46:14.460 --> 0:46:17.310 interesting and really sharp observation from a guy also signed 0:46:17.310 --> 0:46:19.620 to universal who sort of willing to call it out. 0:46:19.620 --> 0:46:21.870 Yeah, I mean, Vince, one of me, and maybe that 0:46:21.870 --> 0:46:24.810 will be the rapper I nail my colours to. Um, 0:46:24.810 --> 0:46:27.390 can I ask if you had someone from out like 0:46:27.390 --> 0:46:30.150 someone left field was to join this feud? It can 0:46:30.150 --> 0:46:32.279 be anyone. Who would you like to see kind of 0:46:32.280 --> 0:46:33.509 weigh in now at this stage? 0:46:33.510 --> 0:46:36.000 Well, one of the other funniest bits, as well as J. 0:46:36.000 --> 0:46:38.609 Cole sort of tapping out, was like the 48 hours 0:46:38.610 --> 0:46:41.640 that Kanye West was involved, where he released a remix 0:46:41.640 --> 0:46:43.200 of Like That and it opened with like, you know, 0:46:43.200 --> 0:46:45.750 k-dot I Got You. And it just was terrible. And 0:46:45.750 --> 0:46:47.700 I think it got deleted because he didn't. It wasn't 0:46:47.700 --> 0:46:50.549 a proper remix and future, and everyone was like, get 0:46:50.550 --> 0:46:52.770 out of this, dude, we don't need you involved in 0:46:52.770 --> 0:46:53.790 this right now. 0:46:53.820 --> 0:46:56.670 I already know my answer. And he actually did involve 0:46:56.670 --> 0:46:59.310 himself last night. Does anyone here remember your boy bangs? 0:46:59.310 --> 0:46:59.790 Yeah. 0:46:59.790 --> 0:47:02.640 Of course. Yeah. I then take you to the movie. Yeah, yeah. 0:47:02.640 --> 0:47:06.540 He released a diss track to Drake last night. Uh, so, 0:47:06.540 --> 0:47:09.120 I mean, if you remember bangs and his very odd 0:47:09.120 --> 0:47:12.180 viral hit take you to the movies, Shorty, uh, then 0:47:12.180 --> 0:47:14.370 the the diss track to Drake is in much the 0:47:14.370 --> 0:47:18.060 same nature. It's, uh, very hard to read and follow, but, yeah, 0:47:18.060 --> 0:47:20.700 I mean, it's it's bringing in everyone from all corners 0:47:20.700 --> 0:47:24.060 of hip hop. But perhaps most surprisingly, this artist actually 0:47:24.060 --> 0:47:26.520 did involve himself. Someone I never would have thought been 0:47:26.520 --> 0:47:28.500 mentioned in the same breath. But Macklemore. 0:47:28.500 --> 0:47:32.100 Yeah, this was so interesting because Macklemore has already sort 0:47:32.100 --> 0:47:34.950 of been weirdly involved in Drake Kendrick's life. He won 0:47:34.950 --> 0:47:37.950 the Grammy like ten years ago. He beat good kid 0:47:37.950 --> 0:47:40.020 Mad City, he beat a Drake record as well, and 0:47:40.020 --> 0:47:41.850 he famously shared a screenshot of a text he sent 0:47:41.850 --> 0:47:44.910 to Kendrick saying, I'm sorry, you deserve to win. And 0:47:44.910 --> 0:47:50.880 he released this really intense song, uh, this week about the, uh, 0:47:50.880 --> 0:47:54.600 not just Israel's invasion of Gaza and the amount of, 0:47:54.600 --> 0:47:59.319 you know, death and destruction. In Gaza, but also really 0:47:59.320 --> 0:48:01.540 blew up at the US government, told everyone he wasn't 0:48:01.540 --> 0:48:04.540 going to vote for Biden, defended the student protests, discussed 0:48:04.540 --> 0:48:07.509 Israel being an apartheid state. He went really, really hard 0:48:07.510 --> 0:48:11.380 on this issue and also kind of took a pretty, 0:48:11.380 --> 0:48:13.060 you know, it was a quick shot, but it was 0:48:13.060 --> 0:48:15.100 a shot at both Drake and Kendrick, essentially. Like, you 0:48:15.100 --> 0:48:19.390 guys are wasting time arguing with each other over nothing real. Meanwhile, 0:48:19.390 --> 0:48:23.170 there's people dying and there's student protests happening in America 0:48:23.170 --> 0:48:25.690 right now where police are, you know, cracking down on 0:48:25.690 --> 0:48:26.410 freedom of speech. 0:48:26.590 --> 0:48:28.990 What happens to the artists, what you gotta say, if 0:48:28.989 --> 0:48:31.270 I was on a label, you could drop me today. 0:48:31.270 --> 0:48:33.820 I'd be fine with it. Cause the heart fed my page. 0:48:33.820 --> 0:48:36.520 I want a cease fire. A response from Drake. 0:48:36.520 --> 0:48:39.670 What you're willing to risk felt like a pretty hard 0:48:39.670 --> 0:48:43.540 pivot from Macklemore. Not necessarily what I expected, but people 0:48:43.540 --> 0:48:46.090 have pointed out that he's done this for a while. 0:48:46.090 --> 0:48:48.910 This is kind of what modern Macklemore does. He talks 0:48:48.910 --> 0:48:51.460 about white privilege and politics. I was sort of out 0:48:51.460 --> 0:48:54.489 of the loop on his pivot, but he really injected 0:48:54.489 --> 0:48:55.810 himself into this one. 0:48:55.810 --> 0:48:57.940 Yeah, I mean, the Macklemore thing was a really weird 0:48:57.940 --> 0:49:00.759 addition to an increasingly strange story. But yeah, I think 0:49:00.760 --> 0:49:03.250 what's most curious now is that basically, I guess this 0:49:03.250 --> 0:49:06.580 is the longest amount of breath we've had since the weekend. 0:49:06.580 --> 0:49:09.250 Like Drake released The Heart Part six on Monday morning, 0:49:09.250 --> 0:49:11.890 and I think pretty much everyone saw it as a, 0:49:11.890 --> 0:49:14.470 you know, quiet retreat. Um, he kind of tried to 0:49:14.469 --> 0:49:16.600 be like, okay, whatever, man, I'm not doing this with 0:49:16.600 --> 0:49:18.819 you anymore. And then since then, we haven't heard anything 0:49:18.820 --> 0:49:21.850 from either artist outside of, you know, this alleged shooting 0:49:21.850 --> 0:49:24.400 at Drake's house on Wednesday morning. So I guess most 0:49:24.400 --> 0:49:27.460 people are, I think, accepting and kind of secretly hoping 0:49:27.460 --> 0:49:30.160 that the feud is over. I don't know if it 0:49:30.160 --> 0:49:32.830 needs any more chapters. And I think, you know, knowing 0:49:32.830 --> 0:49:35.710 Kendrick as I do, that I can't imagine him needing 0:49:35.710 --> 0:49:38.530 to weigh back in now. Like it seems pretty obvious 0:49:38.530 --> 0:49:42.940 that he, you know, like, rapped and exposed Drake into submission. 0:49:42.940 --> 0:49:45.430 And I think it's for the best for everyone involved, 0:49:45.430 --> 0:49:48.850 including the audience. And everyone mentioned that this feud is 0:49:48.850 --> 0:49:52.090 over now. It was definitely a bizarre and interesting and 0:49:52.090 --> 0:49:55.480 revealing moment in hip hop history, and no doubt we'll 0:49:55.480 --> 0:49:57.820 continue to kind of like dissect it. But yeah, I 0:49:57.820 --> 0:50:00.580 personally would be so shocked if, you know, like in 0:50:00.580 --> 0:50:02.200 two days time you text me and you're like, oh 0:50:02.200 --> 0:50:03.759 my God. Kendrick just dropped again. 0:50:03.760 --> 0:50:06.640 I agree, and I actually think that maybe Macklemore has helped. 0:50:06.640 --> 0:50:08.440 Just like put the nail in the coffin on this 0:50:08.440 --> 0:50:10.030 one as well. I think, you know, he sort of 0:50:10.030 --> 0:50:13.120 just said, look, guys, this thing's going on. He's sort of, 0:50:13.390 --> 0:50:16.090 you know, I think mainstream commercial hip hop in America 0:50:16.090 --> 0:50:19.270 has been missing that political edge for a while. I mean, 0:50:19.270 --> 0:50:22.900 Tupac was so good at being able to throw shots 0:50:22.900 --> 0:50:25.299 at East Coast rappers and then also talk about what 0:50:25.300 --> 0:50:27.820 was going on in the world and, and American imperialism 0:50:27.820 --> 0:50:31.210 and whatever. And, and Macklemore of all people saying, all right, guys, 0:50:31.210 --> 0:50:34.390 let's talk about real shit again. Could be the coda 0:50:34.390 --> 0:50:36.880 on this one and kind of just usher in a 0:50:36.880 --> 0:50:42.279 new conversation about many different and perhaps less personal, uh, 0:50:42.280 --> 0:50:45.580 topics that these guys were trading shots on. It's a 0:50:45.580 --> 0:50:48.550 bit of a heel turn. This next topic. Not really 0:50:48.550 --> 0:50:52.569 an easy way to segue from Kendrick, Drake and Macklemore 0:50:52.570 --> 0:50:54.819 to Dua Lipa. I guess it's music related, but on 0:50:54.820 --> 0:50:56.440 the other end of the spectrum was one of the 0:50:56.440 --> 0:51:01.660 most highly anticipated releases this year. Dua Lipa's Radical Optimism, 0:51:01.660 --> 0:51:04.330 the follow up to her very fun and critically acclaimed 0:51:04.330 --> 0:51:08.080 2020 album Future Nostalgia. The first single on Radical Optimism 0:51:08.080 --> 0:51:08.920 was Houdini. 0:51:13.360 --> 0:51:15.820 Tell me all the ways you need me. I'm not 0:51:15.820 --> 0:51:19.640 here for long. Catch me or I go, Whodini, I 0:51:19.640 --> 0:51:22.950 come and I go. Prove you've got the right to 0:51:22.950 --> 0:51:27.590 please me. Everybody knows. Catch me or I go Whodini 0:51:27.950 --> 0:51:30.170 time is passing like a solid. 0:51:30.170 --> 0:51:34.370 Produced by Australia's own Kevin Parker, Tame Impala. I didn't 0:51:34.370 --> 0:51:37.430 love this track, but then when the album came out 0:51:37.430 --> 0:51:39.740 last week and I listened to it a few times, 0:51:39.739 --> 0:51:42.469 it's maybe the best song on it, which I think 0:51:42.469 --> 0:51:46.160 sums up how I feel about this album. Very flat 0:51:46.160 --> 0:51:48.950 record to me. I think, especially following the kind of 0:51:48.950 --> 0:51:52.009 disco club vibes of Future Nostalgia had so many bangers 0:51:52.010 --> 0:51:55.070 levitating physical, I don't even know if this one like 0:51:55.070 --> 0:51:58.040 is a full, proper pop album. There's a couple of 0:51:58.040 --> 0:52:00.920 pop songs, but do you guys remember adult contemporary where 0:52:00.920 --> 0:52:03.890 you're just like, this is a person making noise, and 0:52:03.890 --> 0:52:05.480 it's sort of nice to have in the background, but 0:52:05.480 --> 0:52:08.600 it's not doing or saying much. Well, I know that 0:52:08.600 --> 0:52:10.040 you were hyped for this one, but how do you 0:52:10.040 --> 0:52:10.940 feel about it? 0:52:10.940 --> 0:52:13.100 I was so hyped for this, and there was a 0:52:13.100 --> 0:52:15.440 lot of kind of chat around it because from, um, 0:52:15.440 --> 0:52:18.500 Dance the Night Dua's song for Barbie, there was the 0:52:18.500 --> 0:52:21.739 very symbolic shattering of the disco ball at the end 0:52:21.739 --> 0:52:24.350 of that, which was meant to represent the end of 0:52:24.350 --> 0:52:27.049 Dua's disco era. And in the lead up to the 0:52:27.050 --> 0:52:29.060 release of this album, she'd kind of been making all 0:52:29.060 --> 0:52:33.620 these claims about what had inspired the album Primal Scream, 0:52:33.620 --> 0:52:36.770 Brit pop. Um, it was kind of low slung British 0:52:36.770 --> 0:52:40.160 source material. So it kind of she was flagging that 0:52:40.160 --> 0:52:42.950 this was going to be a reinvention. And then when 0:52:42.950 --> 0:52:45.739 I listened to to this album, I just don't think 0:52:45.739 --> 0:52:47.510 it's a reinvention at all. There is a lot of 0:52:47.510 --> 0:52:50.239 classic Dua on there, but without the kind of sparkle 0:52:50.239 --> 0:52:53.870 of future nostalgia. But it's not a complete pivot. I 0:52:53.870 --> 0:52:55.850 don't think for her and I agree with you. I 0:52:55.850 --> 0:52:58.670 was like, actually, really like the first three songs of 0:52:58.670 --> 0:53:01.220 this album, end of an era, Whodini, you mentioned, and 0:53:01.219 --> 0:53:04.430 Training Season, and then it kind of goes into this 0:53:04.610 --> 0:53:08.299 pivot to a more muffled sound, a very kind of 0:53:08.300 --> 0:53:12.049 Tame Impala. Kevin Parker, who produced this record, sound in 0:53:12.050 --> 0:53:15.590 songs like Kind of French Exit and These Walls. They're 0:53:15.590 --> 0:53:17.510 shades of Dua again in all of them, but they're 0:53:17.510 --> 0:53:19.760 a lot more kind of drawn back. And then at 0:53:19.760 --> 0:53:21.440 the end of this album, there are these real like 0:53:21.440 --> 0:53:26.180 Eurovision bangers, these like kind of really big ballady sounds, 0:53:26.180 --> 0:53:28.880 which some people love. But I much prefer Dua when 0:53:28.880 --> 0:53:30.740 she's like kind of when it's all in the vocals 0:53:30.739 --> 0:53:34.129 and it's all in that, that really vibrant dance beat. 0:53:34.130 --> 0:53:35.720 So yeah, I thought there were highs and lows on 0:53:35.719 --> 0:53:37.759 this album, but kind of agree with you that it 0:53:37.760 --> 0:53:41.420 wasn't the it wasn't the amazing sparkly record that I 0:53:41.420 --> 0:53:43.100 kind of thought might be coming our way. 0:53:43.810 --> 0:53:46.540 Yeah, I didn't really vibe at all. Um, our colleague 0:53:46.540 --> 0:53:48.730 Rob Moran was so excited for this one, and he 0:53:48.730 --> 0:53:52.239 just looked so crestfallen after having listened to it, because, 0:53:52.239 --> 0:53:54.100 I mean, this is this was the big year for like, 0:53:54.100 --> 0:53:56.800 all these, like, massive pop albums that were previewed it. 0:53:56.800 --> 0:53:57.670 I think at the start of the. 0:53:57.670 --> 0:53:59.770 Year, I know, and this just feels like such a 0:53:59.770 --> 0:54:03.430 limp like addition to that, you know, list. Yeah, like 0:54:03.430 --> 0:54:05.080 I feel like Dua Lipa has been kind of untouchable 0:54:05.080 --> 0:54:07.090 for a while, and then it just makes you wonder, 0:54:07.090 --> 0:54:10.090 like when you when you like in the studio, all 0:54:10.090 --> 0:54:11.860 these different people and you listen through this album, how 0:54:11.860 --> 0:54:13.960 is no one sitting there being like, I don't know, 0:54:13.960 --> 0:54:15.700 maybe they must think it's all really good, I don't know. 0:54:15.820 --> 0:54:18.100 Yeah, there's some chat that, like her dad who's taken 0:54:18.100 --> 0:54:21.310 over her management, maybe isn't sort of playing the the 0:54:21.310 --> 0:54:23.770 best role he should be. I agree 100% on this. 0:54:23.770 --> 0:54:26.560 Like there should be some label ainars in here being like, okay, 0:54:26.560 --> 0:54:27.850 you want to do some of this? That's cool. But like, 0:54:27.850 --> 0:54:29.620 where are the hits? Like the point of a pop 0:54:29.620 --> 0:54:32.110 record is you need some hits and this just doesn't have. 0:54:32.960 --> 0:54:34.550 Yeah. And that's why you need to bring in Tedros. 0:54:34.580 --> 0:54:38.120 Tedros and that hit factory. 0:54:38.420 --> 0:54:40.580 Um, talking about hits though, there is like a hit 0:54:40.580 --> 0:54:43.730 I'm really enjoying right now. Uh, Sabrina Carpenter, who we 0:54:43.730 --> 0:54:47.359 all saw when she opened for Taylor Swift, her song espresso. 0:54:48.170 --> 0:54:51.980 Now, here's the thing about me every night. Oh, is 0:54:51.980 --> 0:54:55.220 it that sweet? Like a song. So you can't sleep, 0:54:55.219 --> 0:55:03.580 baby I know that's that means so. Nintendo. So you 0:55:03.580 --> 0:55:04.120 can see. 0:55:06.360 --> 0:55:09.330 This feels like the song of northern Hemisphere summer. People 0:55:09.330 --> 0:55:13.710 are loving this song. I'm loving this song. Uh, it's 0:55:13.710 --> 0:55:15.569 very fun. It feels like it should be on on 0:55:15.570 --> 0:55:18.569 a duo record. You guys, you guys that that me 0:55:18.570 --> 0:55:19.950 espresso your vibe in it. 0:55:19.950 --> 0:55:22.200 Man, I love it. I've listened to that song though, 0:55:22.200 --> 0:55:25.260 so many times. And still I can only be like, no, no, no. 0:55:25.260 --> 0:55:28.140 Espresso like that is the only line. I can still 0:55:28.380 --> 0:55:29.009 switch it up like. 0:55:29.010 --> 0:55:29.790 Nintendo. 0:55:29.940 --> 0:55:31.710 You know, I mean, Nintendo Switch. 0:55:31.980 --> 0:55:35.370 Yeah. There's also like, I was staying out late because 0:55:35.370 --> 0:55:37.740 I'm a singer or something like that. It's very funny. 0:55:37.739 --> 0:55:40.650 It's like very self-aware, funny lyrics and very catchy at 0:55:40.650 --> 0:55:41.040 the same time. 0:55:41.040 --> 0:55:43.560 You know, like, don't give a fuck era. I really, 0:55:43.560 --> 0:55:46.110 I love Sabrina Carpenter. I liked nonsense too. I know 0:55:46.110 --> 0:55:47.940 a lot of people don't didn't really get her vibe, 0:55:47.940 --> 0:55:50.760 but I think she's very funny and interesting and is 0:55:50.760 --> 0:55:53.070 kind of more edgy and risky in her lyrics and 0:55:53.070 --> 0:55:56.100 her performance. Um, than probably Taylor is. 0:55:56.100 --> 0:55:57.840 Yeah, I think she could. She could be on the 0:55:57.840 --> 0:55:59.880 cusp of blowing up. She does this really fun thing 0:55:59.880 --> 0:56:02.489 on her tour where she sort of adds an extra 0:56:02.489 --> 0:56:04.620 verse at the end of her set to reference where 0:56:04.620 --> 0:56:07.410 she's at, and sometimes it's pretty saucy. It's cool. I 0:56:07.410 --> 0:56:10.440 think she's fun and interesting and the song is really catchy. 0:56:10.620 --> 0:56:13.290 Are you are you bumping this one time itch? 0:56:13.290 --> 0:56:15.299 Yeah, I really like it. I like Sabrina too. I 0:56:15.300 --> 0:56:17.670 feel like she's like having a bit of a moment. Um, 0:56:17.670 --> 0:56:19.589 so she was also at the Met Gala yesterday along 0:56:19.590 --> 0:56:21.570 with Barry? Um, yeah. Barry. 0:56:21.930 --> 0:56:22.739 Partner, if. 0:56:22.739 --> 0:56:25.470 People don't know. Yes. Correct. Um, yeah, I think she's 0:56:25.469 --> 0:56:28.379 she's good. You can just see like, the trajectory she's on. 0:56:28.469 --> 0:56:31.560 Obviously she toured here with Taylor Swift recently. Um, sadly, 0:56:31.560 --> 0:56:33.390 I did not get to see her because her set 0:56:33.390 --> 0:56:34.350 was rained out. 0:56:34.590 --> 0:56:35.850 Oh, true. 0:56:35.850 --> 0:56:38.580 Electrical storm. But everyone, everyone that I had spoken to, 0:56:38.580 --> 0:56:40.080 all the Swifties who had gone, you know, like, every 0:56:40.080 --> 0:56:43.380 single night were like, you know, raving about Sabrina Carpenter, um, 0:56:43.380 --> 0:56:44.910 as much as they were Taylor. So I feel like 0:56:44.910 --> 0:56:47.280 she's she's really on one. She's about to or just 0:56:47.520 --> 0:56:49.350 is the musical act on SNL. 0:56:49.350 --> 0:56:51.510 And her Coachella set went kind of off as well. 0:56:51.510 --> 0:56:54.180 People raved about it. Barry was there watching. Yeah, she's. 0:56:54.180 --> 0:56:56.339 Collecting like all the pop culture rings you need when 0:56:56.340 --> 0:56:58.710 you're on the way to being like, the next big thing. Um, 0:56:58.710 --> 0:57:01.200 and then obviously she will enter into a feud with 0:57:01.200 --> 0:57:03.870 Olivia Rodrigo that we will then talk about. Um, I 0:57:03.870 --> 0:57:06.420 think she has, hasn't she? Yeah. But like a proper 0:57:06.420 --> 0:57:08.819 public one where Olivia Rodrigo is like, I don't know, 0:57:08.820 --> 0:57:11.160 revealed to be. Oh, I see you were alien or Drake. 0:57:11.160 --> 0:57:13.319 Kendrick thing, and I stepped on it. I'm sorry, I'm sorry, 0:57:13.560 --> 0:57:15.900 but I think they sort of threw, um, barbs at 0:57:15.900 --> 0:57:19.290 each other over driver's license. Is that is that what happened? 0:57:19.290 --> 0:57:21.360 Yeah. They did. Um, because I think there was also 0:57:21.360 --> 0:57:23.970 an accusation of a shared boyfriend, uh, or something. 0:57:23.970 --> 0:57:26.880 That's pretty hectic. That is. We're talking Drake. Kendrick level. Mel, 0:57:26.880 --> 0:57:28.650 where were you when that was going on? Not complaining 0:57:28.650 --> 0:57:29.430 about collateral damage. 0:57:29.550 --> 0:57:30.570 Exactly. You guys. 0:57:31.050 --> 0:57:33.360 It really is the winter of discontent. 0:57:33.360 --> 0:57:36.120 Oh, nice. Thank you. I'm glad you've stooped to my request. 0:57:36.750 --> 0:57:38.730 All right, movie time. Guys. There's been a lot of 0:57:38.730 --> 0:57:42.330 discourse in entertainment news around the release of the new 0:57:42.330 --> 0:57:45.420 Ryan Gosling Emily Blunt action comedy, The Fall Guy, which 0:57:45.420 --> 0:57:48.060 was filmed in Sydney, Australia. 0:57:49.650 --> 0:57:53.850 That's me. Colt Seavers. And this is my hero's journey. 0:57:58.690 --> 0:58:00.190 Can we just start from the top? 0:58:02.890 --> 0:58:04.959 What do you want it? Okay. I'm not the hero 0:58:04.960 --> 0:58:10.450 of this story. I'm just a stunt guy trying to 0:58:10.450 --> 0:58:12.700 look cool in front of the director of this movie. 0:58:12.970 --> 0:58:13.810 That's her. 0:58:13.840 --> 0:58:15.430 It's been a slow start to the year in terms 0:58:15.430 --> 0:58:19.000 of box office numbers. And I think after the massive 0:58:19.000 --> 0:58:23.080 Bodenheimer induced high of 2023, studios and cinema chains are 0:58:23.080 --> 0:58:26.470 kind of really desperately craving some big releases to get 0:58:26.470 --> 0:58:29.920 people back into the movies. This was an expensive film. 0:58:29.920 --> 0:58:33.430 It cost 150 million USD to make. It's got big stars, 0:58:33.430 --> 0:58:36.220 big action set pieces in it, so there's a bit 0:58:36.220 --> 0:58:39.640 riding on it. We'll talk about its performance and what 0:58:39.640 --> 0:58:41.560 that might mean for Hollywood in a minute, but let's 0:58:41.560 --> 0:58:43.420 talk about the film and kind of interested to get 0:58:43.420 --> 0:58:46.630 your takes on it as well. It's a loose adaptation 0:58:46.630 --> 0:58:49.210 of the 1980s TV series of the same name starring 0:58:49.210 --> 0:58:51.280 Lee majors. I never watched it. I just know Lee 0:58:51.280 --> 0:58:53.290 majors because he was in a Simpsons episode. I think 0:58:53.290 --> 0:58:55.960 Marge had a big crush on him. Um, the movie's 0:58:55.960 --> 0:58:59.350 directed by David Leitch. He's a former stuntman himself. He 0:58:59.350 --> 0:59:02.620 co-directed the first John Wick film, directed Deadpool two, the 0:59:02.620 --> 0:59:05.140 Fast and Furious spin off Hobbs and Shaw, and most recently, 0:59:05.140 --> 0:59:08.290 the Brad Pitt starring Bullet Train. This film really is 0:59:08.290 --> 0:59:11.590 a love letter to stunt performers. It stars Ryan Gosling 0:59:11.590 --> 0:59:14.650 as a stuntman who, after quitting his job after getting 0:59:14.650 --> 0:59:17.800 into an accident on set, is convinced to get back 0:59:17.800 --> 0:59:21.760 in the game, working on his ex-girlfriend's directorial debut action 0:59:21.760 --> 0:59:26.020 film that's played by Emily Blunt. The movie's filming in Australia. 0:59:26.020 --> 0:59:28.720 When he gets there, he finds himself involved in a 0:59:28.720 --> 0:59:34.150 conspiracy surrounding the disappearance of the film's lead actor, Aaron Taylor-Johnson. 0:59:34.150 --> 0:59:38.260 The film also stars Hannah Waddingham from Ted Lasso, Teresa Palmer, 0:59:38.260 --> 0:59:41.350 Stephanie Sue and Winston Duke. The movie is basically a 0:59:41.350 --> 0:59:44.170 love story between Gosling and Blunt, with a lot of action, 0:59:44.170 --> 0:59:46.870 a lot of stunts, a lot of fun references to 0:59:46.870 --> 0:59:49.330 cinema and pop culture in there. I would describe it 0:59:49.330 --> 0:59:53.050 as like, thoroughly entertaining, pretty fun, but not like a 0:59:53.050 --> 0:59:56.800 transcendent movie. I thought Gosling in particular was really great, 0:59:56.800 --> 0:59:59.890 and Emily Blunt was good, but her character does not 0:59:59.890 --> 1:00:04.090 have a lot to do or much depth in this film. 1:00:04.600 --> 1:00:06.190 I had a good time in the cinema, but I 1:00:06.190 --> 1:00:08.410 don't know if I describe it as a must watch. Uh, 1:00:08.410 --> 1:00:10.420 what did you guys make of The Fall Guy? 1:00:10.870 --> 1:00:13.180 I did not have a good time in the cinema. Oh, really? 1:00:13.210 --> 1:00:15.130 I didn't I really wanted to like it. In fact, 1:00:15.130 --> 1:00:17.440 I sat down next to Thomas and I said to him, 1:00:17.440 --> 1:00:19.810 I'm really happy. Like I was in the right headspace 1:00:19.810 --> 1:00:22.000 to watch it. And I kept thinking about this. This 1:00:22.000 --> 1:00:23.440 one time I was going to my friend's house and 1:00:23.440 --> 1:00:25.480 we all had to bring a dessert, and I decided 1:00:25.480 --> 1:00:28.060 I would make an Eton mess, which is just like 1:00:28.060 --> 1:00:30.580 a strategically, it looks like a mess, but it isn't 1:00:30.580 --> 1:00:32.800 a mess and it tastes delicious. And when I ended 1:00:32.800 --> 1:00:34.780 up making it, it turned out just a mess. Like, 1:00:34.780 --> 1:00:37.540 look like something that someone had eaten and then regurgitated. 1:00:37.540 --> 1:00:40.660 And I kind of felt like watching this. I was like, 1:00:40.660 --> 1:00:43.090 someone thought this would be a good idea, but it 1:00:43.090 --> 1:00:45.970 just turned out to be a bit of a mess. I, 1:00:45.970 --> 1:00:48.910 I didn't enjoy it. There was too much action. Like, 1:00:48.910 --> 1:00:52.060 I understand it's a love letter to to to stunts, 1:00:52.060 --> 1:00:56.320 but there was so much spectacle and no story. Gosling's 1:00:56.320 --> 1:01:00.760 character was confusing and seemed undercooked. Um, to be honest, 1:01:00.760 --> 1:01:03.730 I was probably most alert during the credits when they 1:01:03.730 --> 1:01:06.310 were showing the real footage of the stunts being made, 1:01:06.310 --> 1:01:08.530 and I and I actually thought, wow, I think I 1:01:08.530 --> 1:01:11.350 would actually prefer to watch a documentary about making this 1:01:11.350 --> 1:01:14.590 film than this film. I just did not enjoy it. 1:01:14.590 --> 1:01:17.590 I kind of feel the same. I actually think, like, 1:01:17.590 --> 1:01:19.750 I'm really surprised you said you thought Gosling was good. 1:01:19.750 --> 1:01:22.750 I thought he was bad, like, I love I mean, 1:01:22.750 --> 1:01:24.520 we all love the Gosling, and he's kind of like 1:01:24.520 --> 1:01:26.290 on a bit of a heater off the back of 1:01:26.290 --> 1:01:29.020 Barbie and this kind of comedy era. And I just 1:01:29.020 --> 1:01:31.780 thought he was like the first 15 minutes especially. I 1:01:31.780 --> 1:01:34.510 was like, wow. He is like not making me laugh. 1:01:34.510 --> 1:01:36.370 And this is someone who I think normally can take 1:01:36.370 --> 1:01:39.010 a really poor script. And just with his like Gosling 1:01:39.010 --> 1:01:41.740 delivery can make it funny. And so I don't know 1:01:41.740 --> 1:01:43.330 if it's an indictment on the script, but I thought 1:01:43.330 --> 1:01:45.640 both he my biggest issue with the film was that 1:01:45.640 --> 1:01:48.580 the chemistry between the two leads, Ryan Gosling and Emily Blunt, was, like, 1:01:48.580 --> 1:01:51.340 near non-existent for me. I thought he was in the 1:01:51.340 --> 1:01:53.890 scene doing his Gosling schtick, and she was doing her 1:01:53.890 --> 1:01:56.920 Emily Blunt schtick of like, talking really fast and seeming distracted. 1:01:56.920 --> 1:01:59.680 But they weren't like, that's like two people acting in 1:01:59.680 --> 1:02:02.890 a scene, like of their own, not together. And I 1:02:02.890 --> 1:02:05.470 just thought they didn't gel. And then on top of that, 1:02:05.470 --> 1:02:08.380 I thought that the story was like a little bit flimsy. 1:02:08.380 --> 1:02:10.660 It was hard to kind of like, get involved. I 1:02:10.660 --> 1:02:12.520 really went into this being like, this will be a fun, 1:02:12.520 --> 1:02:14.710 kind of like Netflix movie, and it'll be like funny 1:02:14.710 --> 1:02:17.920 and a good time. And instead I just, like, found 1:02:17.920 --> 1:02:20.020 myself really drifting. Um, and the. 1:02:20.020 --> 1:02:22.150 Jokes just didn't land in our cinema. Right. Which is 1:02:22.150 --> 1:02:24.340 kind of like, I thought, because David Leitch did Bullet Train, 1:02:24.340 --> 1:02:26.680 which I thought was very funny, but the jokes in 1:02:26.680 --> 1:02:29.320 our cinema didn't land like it was just really quite 1:02:29.320 --> 1:02:32.140 awkward watching one. How busy was another? 1:02:32.590 --> 1:02:34.390 Not very busy. There's only a few people. 1:02:34.390 --> 1:02:35.350 None of us laughed. 1:02:35.380 --> 1:02:37.000 Yeah, I would say though, and like, you know, I 1:02:37.000 --> 1:02:39.070 do have to caveat all this with like a friend 1:02:39.070 --> 1:02:40.450 of mine is in the film and I actually thought 1:02:40.450 --> 1:02:42.820 he was great. Uh, his name is Adam Dunn, Australian actor, 1:02:42.820 --> 1:02:45.670 played Nigel, uh, who was singing, you know, Genie in 1:02:45.670 --> 1:02:46.720 a bottle during the karaoke. 1:02:46.840 --> 1:02:48.070 He's great in the movie. 1:02:48.070 --> 1:02:50.500 Yeah, he was really good. And, you know, like I'm 1:02:50.500 --> 1:02:52.150 saying all this, I know he listens to the podcast. 1:02:52.150 --> 1:02:54.400 We had a, you know, very honest chat on text. 1:02:54.570 --> 1:02:56.280 After the movie where he asked me what I thought. 1:02:56.280 --> 1:02:58.110 He asked me to send a thumbs up or thumbs down, 1:02:58.110 --> 1:03:00.630 which is a reference from the film. And I said 1:03:00.630 --> 1:03:01.980 all of this to him, and, you know, he had 1:03:01.980 --> 1:03:04.290 his own thoughts and we had a really interesting chat. 1:03:04.290 --> 1:03:05.850 And I said to him that I didn't believe the 1:03:05.850 --> 1:03:08.370 chemistry between the two leads, and he was really surprised 1:03:08.370 --> 1:03:10.530 by that because he saw how hard they were working 1:03:10.530 --> 1:03:13.500 on the film. So, you know, it's an interesting, I guess, 1:03:13.500 --> 1:03:16.950 perspective to have. But yeah, I went in so prepared 1:03:16.950 --> 1:03:18.510 to love this film because it had so many elements 1:03:18.510 --> 1:03:20.910 that I was excited for, including the fact it was 1:03:20.910 --> 1:03:23.430 shot here in beautiful Sydney. And yeah, I just for 1:03:23.430 --> 1:03:26.040 some reason, like it didn't work for me. Like, I 1:03:26.040 --> 1:03:28.320 loved The Gray Man. Like I'm so here for these 1:03:28.320 --> 1:03:31.020 kind of like dumb Netflix films. And this one just felt, 1:03:31.020 --> 1:03:32.760 aside from the fact it was 45 minutes too long, 1:03:32.760 --> 1:03:35.520 it just didn't seem to work. It was having discussed 1:03:35.520 --> 1:03:37.620 so much about the mid era, this was like mid 1:03:37.620 --> 1:03:38.640 to a tee for me. 1:03:38.640 --> 1:03:40.410 I reckon you guys are in the wrong cinema with 1:03:40.410 --> 1:03:42.720 the wrong people like I thought. I thought that the 1:03:42.720 --> 1:03:45.090 jokes were funny. I thought Ryan Gosling was funny. I 1:03:45.090 --> 1:03:48.510 thought the chemistry was great. I thought that when Ryan 1:03:48.510 --> 1:03:51.750 Gosling is crying to Taylor Swift's All Too Well, uh, 1:03:51.750 --> 1:03:54.240 that that was great. It was very moving. 1:03:54.240 --> 1:03:56.610 But even that for me felt like such a, like, 1:03:56.610 --> 1:03:59.160 heavy handed, like, oh, there's been so many funny, like, 1:03:59.160 --> 1:04:01.440 let's have a, you know, like guy listening to Taylor 1:04:01.440 --> 1:04:03.600 Swift and being emotional, seeing let's just like wedge it 1:04:03.600 --> 1:04:05.640 in there. It felt so forced to me. Yeah. 1:04:05.640 --> 1:04:07.800 I thought that was ironic. I thought they were making 1:04:07.800 --> 1:04:09.479 fun of scenes of men. 1:04:09.480 --> 1:04:11.100 I reckon you were in the Taylor Swift movie. 1:04:11.100 --> 1:04:12.360 You're in the wrong gear for this movie. 1:04:12.360 --> 1:04:15.510 We were in the wrong. We're gonna be. We were happy. 1:04:16.470 --> 1:04:18.660 No. Had a, uh, like a what did you have, like, 1:04:18.660 --> 1:04:19.530 some kind of rap? 1:04:19.590 --> 1:04:20.520 Yeah, I had. 1:04:20.520 --> 1:04:22.410 Like, I had food for once in the cinema, we. 1:04:22.410 --> 1:04:25.290 I cannot tell you how ready we were to love 1:04:25.290 --> 1:04:26.070 this film. 1:04:26.280 --> 1:04:28.260 All right, let's agree to disagree on this one. And 1:04:28.260 --> 1:04:30.600 maybe you have more in common with the regular folk 1:04:30.600 --> 1:04:33.510 who don't seem to be rushing to see this, which 1:04:33.510 --> 1:04:37.260 is freaking, uh, some distributors and studios and movie chains out. 1:04:37.260 --> 1:04:39.720 I think they were expecting this movie, which generally has 1:04:39.720 --> 1:04:42.120 gotten pretty good reviews, like, it's sort of like three 1:04:42.120 --> 1:04:44.100 and a half to four stars around the place. It's 1:04:44.100 --> 1:04:46.170 doing pretty well on Rotten Tomatoes. People think it's the 1:04:46.170 --> 1:04:49.080 kind of movie that should be bringing people to cinemas, 1:04:49.080 --> 1:04:52.050 and it's not. And I wonder whether that's because, like 1:04:52.050 --> 1:04:53.880 I said at the start, I had a fun time, 1:04:53.880 --> 1:04:55.560 but I'm not racing out of the cinema and saying, 1:04:55.560 --> 1:04:57.360 you've all got to go see the fall guy. I 1:04:57.360 --> 1:05:01.680 think sometimes it's the problem with Rotten Tomatoes, where it's 90% positive, 1:05:01.680 --> 1:05:05.190 but if every positive review is like three stars, that 1:05:05.190 --> 1:05:09.150 doesn't get you excited enough to actually be an enthused 1:05:09.150 --> 1:05:12.840 ambassador for this film. I also wonder, and Thomas, you 1:05:12.840 --> 1:05:16.110 mentioned the Gray Man. My friend Amy messaged me and 1:05:16.110 --> 1:05:17.790 was like, oh, you saw the fall guy? I didn't, 1:05:17.790 --> 1:05:19.380 I see that isn't that free guy? I've seen that 1:05:19.380 --> 1:05:22.290 one before, which is a different movie with Ryan Reynolds. 1:05:22.290 --> 1:05:25.260 And there's also The Nice Guys. There's a lot of 1:05:25.260 --> 1:05:31.500 Guy films around featuring Ryan's, and I wonder whether that 1:05:31.500 --> 1:05:34.410 is just confusing people. As dumb as that sounds, or 1:05:34.410 --> 1:05:36.690 whether people are like, cool, I'll wait for this movie 1:05:36.690 --> 1:05:38.850 to come out on streaming. It looks like mid tier entertainment. 1:05:38.850 --> 1:05:39.990 If I don't have to go out to the movies 1:05:39.990 --> 1:05:42.660 and pay $25 for it, I'll have a good time. 1:05:42.990 --> 1:05:44.400 Well, Mel, you did say to me, I wonder if 1:05:44.400 --> 1:05:46.080 I would have liked this film better if I watched 1:05:46.080 --> 1:05:47.970 it on a Saturday night when it popped up on 1:05:47.970 --> 1:05:49.800 Netflix and I'd had, like, a couple of glasses of 1:05:49.800 --> 1:05:52.890 wine and like, I just popped it on and this, like, 1:05:52.890 --> 1:05:54.420 it was just a Saturday night, like. 1:05:54.420 --> 1:05:56.900 Yeah, if I could talk all the way through it. Yeah, yeah. 1:05:57.560 --> 1:05:58.700 Like potentially I think. 1:05:58.700 --> 1:06:00.170 I think potentially, I think maybe it will have a 1:06:00.170 --> 1:06:03.110 big streaming run as well. But yeah, I wonder what 1:06:03.110 --> 1:06:05.390 it means if it doesn't make its box office money back. 1:06:05.390 --> 1:06:08.420 That's that's not a great result for this film or 1:06:08.420 --> 1:06:10.910 for Hollywood making big movies. Uh, can I ask you 1:06:10.910 --> 1:06:13.970 guys about, um, Sidney on film? 1:06:13.970 --> 1:06:14.689 Sweeney. 1:06:15.950 --> 1:06:18.860 Kind of. So we had anyone but you, which was 1:06:18.860 --> 1:06:21.020 obviously filmed and set in Sydney and a lot of 1:06:21.020 --> 1:06:24.320 gratuitous shots of Sydney Harbour Bridge and the opera House 1:06:24.320 --> 1:06:27.050 and Sydney Harbour. And then this movie was filmed basically 1:06:27.050 --> 1:06:30.200 the same place. Like, I was wondering if when Ryan 1:06:30.470 --> 1:06:32.630 Gosling is on a boat in Sydney Harbour, he was 1:06:32.630 --> 1:06:34.880 going to run into Glen Powell and Sydney Sweeney on 1:06:34.880 --> 1:06:37.520 their boat. Maybe it's just because the proximity of these 1:06:37.520 --> 1:06:40.190 two movies are really close together and they've both, you know, 1:06:40.190 --> 1:06:43.070 gotten a lot of media attention. I love Sydney, I 1:06:43.070 --> 1:06:46.160 love seeing Sydney on film. I feel like they could 1:06:46.160 --> 1:06:48.590 do a bit more than just show us the opera 1:06:48.590 --> 1:06:51.110 House and the Harbour Bridge and 2 or 3 blocks 1:06:51.110 --> 1:06:56.660 in the city around Martin Place. So this is a big, beautiful, interesting, diverse, 1:06:56.660 --> 1:07:00.260 fun city when you're in New York, not everything needs 1:07:00.260 --> 1:07:03.050 to be in Manhattan. The Empire State Building can go 1:07:03.050 --> 1:07:05.330 to Brooklyn. Not everything in London needs to be around 1:07:05.330 --> 1:07:07.610 the Big Ben, you know? Like, is there a bit 1:07:07.610 --> 1:07:11.300 of cringe here with the way that Sydney is just 1:07:11.300 --> 1:07:12.740 the city and the harbour? 1:07:13.100 --> 1:07:15.200 Yeah, I think so. It was like, I know everyone 1:07:15.200 --> 1:07:17.510 was excited to see the, you know, the Harbour Bridge 1:07:17.510 --> 1:07:19.250 stunt with Ryan Gosling. And we'd all had a bit 1:07:19.250 --> 1:07:21.470 of context because like, you know, all the news cameras 1:07:21.470 --> 1:07:23.840 were hovering above the Harbour Bridge while he filmed it. 1:07:23.840 --> 1:07:26.120 And but I do find it a bit boring. And 1:07:26.120 --> 1:07:28.010 like Sydney, it may as well have been any other 1:07:28.010 --> 1:07:30.140 city aside from the set piece on the Harbour Bridge, 1:07:30.140 --> 1:07:32.510 and seeing the opera house like it just felt like, 1:07:32.510 --> 1:07:34.970 you know, it could have been Toronto or New York 1:07:34.970 --> 1:07:38.630 or Chicago or wherever, like, I don't know. Yeah, I agree, 1:07:38.630 --> 1:07:40.910 I'm like, it'd be so nice to see them like 1:07:40.910 --> 1:07:43.760 in like a national park or like in the western 1:07:43.760 --> 1:07:47.270 suburbs or somewhere that was like still Sydney and recognizable 1:07:47.270 --> 1:07:49.220 as Sydney, but just not, you know, the two biggest 1:07:49.220 --> 1:07:50.750 icons that we're known for. Like, I'm surprised they didn't 1:07:50.750 --> 1:07:51.860 go down to Bondi Beach. 1:07:51.860 --> 1:07:53.630 Yeah. I mean, I'd be yeah. I mean, that's a 1:07:53.630 --> 1:07:56.070 good point. I'd. Be curious to see when the New 1:07:56.070 --> 1:07:58.140 South Wales Government and Federal government cough up the funding 1:07:58.170 --> 1:08:00.960 to help bring these international films here. What the terms 1:08:00.960 --> 1:08:01.440 and conditions? 1:08:01.500 --> 1:08:02.040 I'm sure I'm. 1:08:02.040 --> 1:08:04.350 100% sure that the only reason there are so many 1:08:04.350 --> 1:08:06.180 shots of the opera house is because the state government, 1:08:06.180 --> 1:08:07.980 which gives a lot of money for these movies, have 1:08:07.980 --> 1:08:10.290 said that's what we want. And I kind of think 1:08:10.290 --> 1:08:12.180 maybe it's not the director's fault as much as it's 1:08:12.180 --> 1:08:14.940 like the government being like, let's just turn every movie 1:08:14.940 --> 1:08:19.559 into an ad for Sydney. But we're so, I guess, 1:08:19.560 --> 1:08:22.140 scared of telling people that Sydney is more than the 1:08:22.140 --> 1:08:25.229 bridge or the opera House. We don't want them to 1:08:25.229 --> 1:08:27.540 go west or south or wherever. 1:08:28.290 --> 1:08:30.930 That's why, again, thanks to Taylor Swift for bringing us 1:08:30.930 --> 1:08:33.960 to the attention of Sydney Zoo in the western suburbs. 1:08:35.340 --> 1:08:37.679 I mean, Taylor, like, the more we talk about it, 1:08:37.680 --> 1:08:40.050 the more I'm impressed. She's a she's a trailblazer. 1:08:40.439 --> 1:08:42.269 Oh, they could go to that. What's that sandwich shop. 1:08:42.270 --> 1:08:43.890 You like Thomas in your part of town? 1:08:43.920 --> 1:08:47.160 Costas? Yeah. They could have gone to Costas. They not have. 1:08:47.160 --> 1:08:48.389 Had a sandwich at Costas. 1:08:48.390 --> 1:08:51.300 That's iconic. I mean, even like the like, there's, like, 1:08:51.300 --> 1:08:54.299 Chifley Tower was in it, but yeah, otherwise it was like, it's, 1:08:54.300 --> 1:08:58.620 you know, hardly even worth, like, getting excited about Sydney 1:08:58.620 --> 1:09:01.350 being in the film. Yeah, I don't know. Uh, I 1:09:01.350 --> 1:09:03.390 think there are lots of other better Sydney films, if 1:09:03.390 --> 1:09:04.380 that's what you're after. 1:09:05.430 --> 1:09:08.220 All right, let's wrap up with Impress Your Friends. When 1:09:08.220 --> 1:09:10.979 we share something we watched, read, listened to, or just 1:09:10.979 --> 1:09:13.440 enjoyed consuming in the past week, do you want to 1:09:13.439 --> 1:09:14.250 go first summer's. 1:09:14.460 --> 1:09:16.830 Uh, my one is TV series just to mix things up. Uh, 1:09:16.830 --> 1:09:20.519 it's out today on Netflix. Uh, it's called Bodkin. Um, 1:09:20.520 --> 1:09:22.680 actually a weird kind of fall guy tie in in 1:09:22.710 --> 1:09:25.380 that the series is produced and directed by Nash Edgerton, 1:09:25.380 --> 1:09:27.930 who is a stuntman, uh, as well as being Joel 1:09:27.930 --> 1:09:30.990 Edgerton's brother, who also makes a cameo in The Fall Guy. Uh, 1:09:30.990 --> 1:09:33.330 but he's also a director. He directs this series. Uh, 1:09:33.330 --> 1:09:36.210 it's very funny. It's a dark comedy, um, in the 1:09:36.210 --> 1:09:37.950 kind of that vein of Irish TV that we all 1:09:37.950 --> 1:09:40.260 know and love. And, uh, you guys will enjoy this. 1:09:40.260 --> 1:09:41.970 It's about a group of three podcasters. 1:09:42.360 --> 1:09:43.260 Is it really? 1:09:43.260 --> 1:09:45.960 It really is, uh, who come together. They work at 1:09:45.960 --> 1:09:50.820 the Guardian. Bu but, um, they, they come together and, uh, 1:09:50.820 --> 1:09:53.370 basically one of the, the, you know, lead journalists, uh, 1:09:53.370 --> 1:09:55.830 she's been, you know, working on a big story in 1:09:55.830 --> 1:09:58.830 London and she gets exiled to her hometown in Ireland, um, 1:09:58.830 --> 1:10:02.700 to work on this series with two other podcasters. Um, about, like, 1:10:02.700 --> 1:10:04.290 you know, a group of people that went missing 20 1:10:04.290 --> 1:10:06.689 years ago. They slowly find themselves kind of, like, wrapped 1:10:06.689 --> 1:10:09.840 up in, you know, the intricacies and feuds of the 1:10:09.840 --> 1:10:12.570 small town. So it's that type of setup, but very funny. 1:10:12.570 --> 1:10:14.849 And I think, you know, lots of people buy into 1:10:14.850 --> 1:10:17.400 the podcast culture. And this has lots of like, uh, 1:10:17.400 --> 1:10:19.650 moments they will enjoy about how serious, you know, true 1:10:19.650 --> 1:10:21.990 crime podcasters take themselves. So yeah, I thought it was 1:10:21.990 --> 1:10:24.660 really funny. Um, each episode is 45 minutes. It's a 1:10:24.660 --> 1:10:27.090 Netflix drop, so everything's there available for you to watch. 1:10:27.090 --> 1:10:29.070 That one's out today. And yeah, worth your time. 1:10:29.070 --> 1:10:31.830 The amount of movies and TV shows that are like 1:10:31.830 --> 1:10:35.760 featuring podcasters as characters in the new Godzilla movie. Again, 1:10:35.760 --> 1:10:39.240 Brian Tyree Henry is a podcaster. It's very strange. I 1:10:39.240 --> 1:10:40.800 really wonder why that. 1:10:41.130 --> 1:10:42.960 I mean, it's a sexy medium, right? Well, podcast. 1:10:42.960 --> 1:10:45.840 Is the new like hard nosed journalists of like 90s films. 1:10:45.870 --> 1:10:48.240 Agreed. Um, Mel, what have you got? 1:10:48.330 --> 1:10:52.050 Well, after everyone has listened to Kendrick and Drake and 1:10:52.050 --> 1:10:54.599 you've kind of been through their whole kind of feud, 1:10:54.600 --> 1:10:57.360 this is a nice one to put in your earphones. 1:10:57.360 --> 1:11:00.270 I've been really vibing Jessica Pratt's here in the Pitch, 1:11:00.270 --> 1:11:04.320 which is her new album. It's only nine songs, 27 minutes. 1:11:04.320 --> 1:11:07.410 There's something light and sunny to them and almost airless, 1:11:07.410 --> 1:11:10.800 as well as this kind of sense of sadness on them. 1:11:10.800 --> 1:11:12.870 I mean, it does kind of feel like maybe stepping 1:11:12.870 --> 1:11:16.140 into the garden, there's this kind of fantasy sound. I 1:11:16.140 --> 1:11:17.490 don't know, it's just one of those albums that I 1:11:17.490 --> 1:11:20.490 keep finding myself listening to. Some albums. I'm kind of like, 1:11:20.490 --> 1:11:22.559 you've got to be in the right mood, and you've 1:11:22.560 --> 1:11:23.820 got to kind of be in the right state of mind. 1:11:23.820 --> 1:11:25.530 I've found that a lot with the Beyonce album, like 1:11:25.530 --> 1:11:28.650 I'm not necessarily gravitating towards putting it on, but this 1:11:28.650 --> 1:11:30.510 one just seems to be one that I keep returning to. 1:11:30.510 --> 1:11:33.450 So it's, um, a really nice kind of folk, retro 1:11:33.450 --> 1:11:37.559 pop classic sound that I would, um, highly recommend if 1:11:37.560 --> 1:11:38.940 you need to come down from all the kind of 1:11:38.939 --> 1:11:40.469 highs of the rap battle. 1:11:40.590 --> 1:11:43.050 You put me onto this one. Uh, yesterday, Mel and 1:11:43.050 --> 1:11:44.939 I have been listening to it. I really like it. 1:11:44.939 --> 1:11:47.550 It's a great recommendation. Very, very good album. 1:11:47.729 --> 1:11:49.950 Oh, good. I can imagine you in your new home 1:11:49.950 --> 1:11:50.879 putting it on. 1:11:51.870 --> 1:11:54.809 Um, I got one that I'm surprised neither of you mentioned. 1:11:54.810 --> 1:11:56.610 Hack season three is back. 1:11:56.820 --> 1:11:57.600 Yes, Jane. 1:11:57.600 --> 1:12:00.750 Smart is back. It's on Stan, owned by nine. The 1:12:00.750 --> 1:12:03.480 people who pay us to make this podcast, the Sydney 1:12:03.479 --> 1:12:05.309 Morning Herald and The Age is probably more convoluted than 1:12:05.310 --> 1:12:07.500 it needed to be. Um. It's great. There's not much 1:12:07.500 --> 1:12:08.880 more I need to say about this show. I really, 1:12:08.880 --> 1:12:11.340 really love hacks. I've been waiting for the new season 1:12:11.340 --> 1:12:13.559 for a while. Go watch it. Very fun. 1:12:14.450 --> 1:12:16.430 It is very funny, very excited. But I did text 1:12:16.430 --> 1:12:18.530 you last night. That should not be a weekly drop. 1:12:18.530 --> 1:12:21.019 That show like the first two episodes were. They dropped 1:12:21.020 --> 1:12:23.300 two at the start and now it's weekly from like 1:12:23.479 --> 1:12:26.180 moving forward. Annoying. Doesn't need to be weekly. Drop the 1:12:26.180 --> 1:12:28.790 episodes like 30 minutes. It's a comedy that could be 1:12:28.790 --> 1:12:30.380 like bang! Just like, give us it, all of it. 1:12:30.380 --> 1:12:31.730 And you can watch it at your own leisure like 1:12:31.729 --> 1:12:34.010 no one is. Is anyone really, like, hyped on a 1:12:34.010 --> 1:12:35.660 Tuesday night to get the new hacks and then watch 1:12:35.660 --> 1:12:37.200 it for 30 minutes that you want to watch 3 1:12:37.200 --> 1:12:37.640 or 4? 1:12:37.640 --> 1:12:40.130 It does feel like the binge is reverse things that 1:12:40.130 --> 1:12:42.320 should not be. Binges are. And the other way around, 1:12:42.320 --> 1:12:43.820 someone's got to sort this out. They should put us 1:12:43.820 --> 1:12:46.130 in charge of just every TV show we come in 1:12:46.130 --> 1:12:48.110 and we're like, doesn't matter what platform it's on. We'll 1:12:48.110 --> 1:12:50.030 tell you the release format for this one. 1:12:50.030 --> 1:12:53.240 Yeah. Once we finished solving crimes in a tiny Irish town. 1:12:53.810 --> 1:12:57.019 Guys. Great chat. Take care. See you next week. Bye. 1:12:59.670 --> 1:13:02.820 This episode of The Drop was produced by Kai Wong. 1:13:02.850 --> 1:13:05.130 If you enjoyed listening to today's episode of The Drop, 1:13:05.130 --> 1:13:07.710 make sure to follow us in your favorite podcast app. 1:13:07.710 --> 1:13:10.020 Leave us a review or better yet, share it with 1:13:10.020 --> 1:13:12.870 a friend! I'm Usman Farooqi, see you next week.