WEBVTT - Subway CCTV and police expenses 0:00:02.240 --> 0:00:07.160 Nine podcasts. The lead investigator continues his evidence, questioned on 0:00:07.240 --> 0:00:10.440 exactly what security footage from the evening of the fatal 0:00:10.520 --> 0:00:14.240 lunch shows. He also tells the jury pulling all of 0:00:14.280 --> 0:00:19.079 the accused killer's phone records was too expensive for police. 0:00:19.239 --> 0:00:23.400 Victoria's mushroom mystery, the mushroom lunch that claimed three lives 0:00:23.520 --> 0:00:26.560 an Australian family's meal is now the center of a 0:00:26.600 --> 0:00:31.080 homicide investigation. For bizarre tragedy now grabbing global headlines, Aaron 0:00:31.120 --> 0:00:34.800 Patterson's alleged victims died after eating a family lunch she'd 0:00:34.840 --> 0:00:36.160 serve them at her home. 0:00:36.320 --> 0:00:39.959 I cannot think of another investigation that has generated this 0:00:40.120 --> 0:00:42.800 level of media and public interest. 0:00:43.000 --> 0:00:45.320 Four of the guests of that lunch were much loved 0:00:45.400 --> 0:00:48.680 members of this church. Only one will ever return. 0:00:48.800 --> 0:00:54.000 People are feeling very heavy with having lost such wonderful people. 0:00:54.160 --> 0:00:58.720 Today, Aaron Pattison remained here inside her home. She's continued 0:00:58.760 --> 0:00:59.360 to plead. 0:00:59.160 --> 0:01:00.240 Her innocence. 0:01:02.240 --> 0:01:05.200 In a court room in Country Victoria. Aaron Patterson is 0:01:05.240 --> 0:01:09.040 on trial accused of using deathcap mushrooms to kill. She's 0:01:09.080 --> 0:01:11.800 pleaded not guilty to murdering three of her former in 0:01:11.880 --> 0:01:15.360 laws and attempting to kill a fourth the town's church pastor. 0:01:15.959 --> 0:01:18.520 It's up to the jurors to decide what happened when 0:01:18.560 --> 0:01:22.759 Pattison's loved ones sat down to eat now. The lead detective, 0:01:22.920 --> 0:01:26.959 Stephen Eppingstall, has been giving evidence over a number of days, 0:01:27.000 --> 0:01:29.880 and during his cross examination with Colin Mandy that our 0:01:29.880 --> 0:01:31.520 listeners will have heard a little bit about in the 0:01:31.600 --> 0:01:35.280 last episode, he's been taken through a number of other 0:01:35.560 --> 0:01:40.039 specific topics and really questioned on particular parts of the investigation. 0:01:40.680 --> 0:01:43.000 There was a lot of questioning today that went through 0:01:43.120 --> 0:01:45.160 multiple topics, but a lot of it was to do 0:01:45.240 --> 0:01:50.520 with data, CCTV, mobile phone tower pings, this sort of thing, 0:01:50.560 --> 0:01:53.040 and one of the ones that they spend a little 0:01:53.040 --> 0:01:56.240 bit of time on today with Colin Mandy asking epping 0:01:56.280 --> 0:01:59.720 Stall about why certain mobile phone DOTA log records weren't 0:01:59.760 --> 0:02:03.440 gab for the entirety of the investigation or for about 0:02:03.640 --> 0:02:06.040 a year period. That was a twelve month period they 0:02:06.040 --> 0:02:08.359 were really talking about today and we heard and said 0:02:08.400 --> 0:02:11.840 that they focused their investigation on collecting this specific type 0:02:11.840 --> 0:02:14.720 of data analysis for dates that were closer to the 0:02:14.800 --> 0:02:18.160 lunch and not that twelve month period. And yeah, the 0:02:18.200 --> 0:02:20.560 detective was quiz on, well, why is that the case? 0:02:20.560 --> 0:02:23.000 Why don't we have more of this? And he explained 0:02:23.040 --> 0:02:25.240 that seeking data for that amount of time would be 0:02:25.320 --> 0:02:28.520 far too costly. He gave some figures, Penny, saying that 0:02:28.600 --> 0:02:32.519 when the technology first came available, it was about seventeen 0:02:32.600 --> 0:02:36.079 hundred dollars for two hours of data, and that if 0:02:36.080 --> 0:02:38.480 they were to seek a year's worth of mobile phone 0:02:38.560 --> 0:02:41.600 location tracking data, it would have probably left the homicide 0:02:41.639 --> 0:02:45.119 squad in with a bill that they needed to pay 0:02:45.120 --> 0:02:48.520 that would have been in six figures, so very cost prohibitive, 0:02:48.720 --> 0:02:51.160 is the way that he explained it. And he said, quote, 0:02:51.160 --> 0:02:54.200 my boss isn't really keen on spending that much for getting. 0:02:54.160 --> 0:02:56.200 And he mentioned as part of this evidence as he 0:02:56.280 --> 0:02:59.200 was going through it that basically, as the lead investigator, 0:02:59.400 --> 0:03:01.519 he wants every he wants to throw everything. 0:03:01.200 --> 0:03:03.120 At it, said he was greedy Penny, yeah, but. 0:03:03.080 --> 0:03:05.440 He said, you know, you don't always get everything. That 0:03:05.919 --> 0:03:07.800 was how he explained it, and then sort of with 0:03:07.880 --> 0:03:10.799 that very specific cost as well. But he was asked 0:03:10.840 --> 0:03:13.520 a lot about the search of Aaron Patterson's home. Now 0:03:13.919 --> 0:03:16.000 the jury has been told there were two searches, one 0:03:16.000 --> 0:03:18.600 on the fifth of August twenty twenty three, which is 0:03:19.000 --> 0:03:21.200 sort of in the week following the lunch and then 0:03:21.320 --> 0:03:24.800 also another search that was on the second of November 0:03:24.840 --> 0:03:28.239 twenty twenty three. Now, when he was the detective being 0:03:28.280 --> 0:03:31.680 taken through this evidence by Colin Mandy sc he was 0:03:32.040 --> 0:03:35.000 spoken to about, well, we know that I believe Colin 0:03:35.000 --> 0:03:38.960 Mandy's words were many many electronic devices were seized, but basically, 0:03:39.360 --> 0:03:41.880 what about some others that have been shown in some 0:03:42.000 --> 0:03:44.840 images that the jury has seen up on the screens 0:03:44.840 --> 0:03:47.240 and these images they've been told were taken from these 0:03:47.320 --> 0:03:51.240 search videos that were made and still images from that 0:03:51.360 --> 0:03:53.840 search on the fifth of August, and the detective confirmed, yes, 0:03:53.880 --> 0:03:56.360 he did believe that particularly one of these images had 0:03:56.400 --> 0:03:58.600 come from there, and he didn't dispute that in any way. 0:03:58.640 --> 0:04:01.920 And he was taken to a particular room in the 0:04:02.000 --> 0:04:05.040 house and shown what appeared to be and what Colin 0:04:05.120 --> 0:04:08.160 Mandy described as a phone box in a basket of 0:04:08.360 --> 0:04:11.880 sort of in an area where we'd seen other electronics 0:04:11.880 --> 0:04:14.080 earlier in the house and we'd seen also a sort 0:04:14.080 --> 0:04:16.599 of a lot of cords and asked asked about that, 0:04:16.720 --> 0:04:18.520 and that's when the detective sort of said, well, we 0:04:18.960 --> 0:04:22.080 seized everything we saw our goal was to get every 0:04:22.160 --> 0:04:26.839 electronic device we could. But he was then taken into 0:04:26.880 --> 0:04:29.359 what was being described as the Lego room, and this 0:04:29.520 --> 0:04:31.640 was a room. In the photos we could see it 0:04:31.680 --> 0:04:33.839 was shelves sort of built in floor to ceiling, and 0:04:33.839 --> 0:04:35.800 there was a lot of different items on those shelves. 0:04:36.000 --> 0:04:38.760 They were open shelves, and it was a picture that 0:04:38.800 --> 0:04:41.480 the jury hadn't seen before. We know that the search 0:04:41.520 --> 0:04:44.440 of the house on both occasions was filmed and then 0:04:44.440 --> 0:04:47.480 there was these steal images taken from that and that's 0:04:47.480 --> 0:04:48.919 what was shown to the jury. But this was a 0:04:48.920 --> 0:04:51.920 new one that was shown to the court today and 0:04:52.160 --> 0:04:54.200 the informant was asked to look at what was in 0:04:54.200 --> 0:04:56.880 that particularly on a couple of bottom shelves on the 0:04:56.920 --> 0:04:59.000 right hand side of the room he was directed to, 0:04:59.080 --> 0:05:02.000 and they even zoomed on the image at that time, 0:05:02.080 --> 0:05:06.320 and there was two particular shelves where Colin Mandy sc 0:05:06.960 --> 0:05:10.080 was suggesting that whether or not the informant agreed that 0:05:10.120 --> 0:05:12.719 they could be computers, perhaps these were computers that were 0:05:12.720 --> 0:05:15.520 missed or weren't picked up or weren't found during the 0:05:15.560 --> 0:05:18.359 search warrants. And we know the search warrants had a 0:05:18.400 --> 0:05:21.559 description on them to search for electronic devices, and epping 0:05:21.600 --> 0:05:23.200 Stare was looking at them and he spent a bit 0:05:23.240 --> 0:05:26.200 of time. He zoomed in himself, Penny, and he was 0:05:26.240 --> 0:05:28.000 asked to look at the way he described them was 0:05:28.040 --> 0:05:30.719 sort of two boxes, and one of them, he said, yes, 0:05:30.880 --> 0:05:33.719 was kind of consistent with what could be a laptop. 0:05:34.000 --> 0:05:35.719 But the other one, he said, appeared to have a 0:05:35.760 --> 0:05:38.320 microphone over the top, and he really couldn't agree with 0:05:38.360 --> 0:05:41.440 the suggestion that Colin Mandy was making that that was 0:05:41.480 --> 0:05:42.320 also a laptop. 0:05:42.400 --> 0:05:43.800 Let's have a little bit of a listen to what 0:05:43.839 --> 0:05:46.120 the detective said as part of his evidence. This is 0:05:46.160 --> 0:05:49.240 where he was being asked about one of these particular 0:05:49.320 --> 0:05:52.200 dark shapes that we could see in the photo in 0:05:52.520 --> 0:05:54.279 that shelf, it's voiced by actors. 0:05:54.520 --> 0:05:57.080 On the shelf on the right hand side, there was 0:05:57.120 --> 0:05:59.120 a keyboard sitting on top of a laptop. 0:05:59.320 --> 0:06:00.960 From that photos, I couldn't And in. 0:06:00.880 --> 0:06:03.359 The shelf below that you can see the black case 0:06:03.520 --> 0:06:04.520 on the left hand side. 0:06:04.680 --> 0:06:07.200 Yeah, the black one has a similarity to a laptop, 0:06:07.240 --> 0:06:10.040 I'll grant that, But that top right one, I couldn't say, sir, 0:06:10.160 --> 0:06:10.680 what that is. 0:06:11.080 --> 0:06:13.880 And these items were not seized by police. 0:06:14.000 --> 0:06:16.799 Okay, if they're laptops. This is the first I'm learning 0:06:16.800 --> 0:06:17.640 of these items. 0:06:17.839 --> 0:06:21.040 Okay, all right, thank you. There are other items as 0:06:21.040 --> 0:06:24.320 well in the premises that weren't seized. For instance, in 0:06:24.360 --> 0:06:28.400 the pantry there was a USB storage device. You recall that. 0:06:28.880 --> 0:06:31.320 I wasn't searching, sir, I was with miss Patterson. 0:06:31.360 --> 0:06:34.880 Now, as part of what the detective was also taken 0:06:34.920 --> 0:06:37.800 through by the defense, he was asked about the seizing 0:06:37.880 --> 0:06:41.239 of phones from the Pattersons. So the court was told 0:06:41.279 --> 0:06:44.520 as part of this through what Colin Mandy was speaking about, 0:06:44.520 --> 0:06:47.440 that there were three phones that were handed over by 0:06:47.760 --> 0:06:51.080 Simon Patterson, Aaron Patterson's a strange husband, those being his 0:06:51.200 --> 0:06:54.240 parents done and Gail's devices, and then also his own 0:06:54.279 --> 0:06:58.240 mobile phone. Now, he confirmed in his evidence, the detective 0:06:58.240 --> 0:07:00.919 that he'd initially got these phones on the sixth of 0:07:00.960 --> 0:07:05.560 August when he spoke with Simon Patterson. But he clarified 0:07:05.560 --> 0:07:07.800 as part of his evidence that while he had this 0:07:07.920 --> 0:07:10.760 phone from Simon Patterson on the sixth, that he had 0:07:10.800 --> 0:07:12.840 taken it back to the office and he hadn't actually 0:07:12.840 --> 0:07:15.320 been able to download that particular phone at the time. 0:07:15.640 --> 0:07:18.560 So because particularly Simon's parents had passed away on what 0:07:18.640 --> 0:07:20.240 was going on at the time he gave that phone 0:07:20.280 --> 0:07:22.680 back to him, and then it was on the twelfth 0:07:22.680 --> 0:07:25.679 of September that it was returned to him via Simon 0:07:25.720 --> 0:07:30.040 Patterson and passed on to specialist investigators to download that data. Now, 0:07:30.080 --> 0:07:32.760 as part of this, Colin Mandy sc sort of pressed 0:07:32.800 --> 0:07:35.280 him on this in a few different ways, and it 0:07:35.360 --> 0:07:38.120 was then that Justice Biale actually sort of hopped in 0:07:38.160 --> 0:07:41.600 and clarified what was being said by the informant or 0:07:41.640 --> 0:07:45.160 the lead detective, and Stephen Eppingstall gave evidence that yes, 0:07:45.960 --> 0:07:48.640 he had been told by Simon Patterson that he'd essentially 0:07:48.680 --> 0:07:50.920 changed phones, he'd got a new handset, but that his 0:07:51.080 --> 0:07:53.640 understanding was that the phone that he received back on 0:07:53.680 --> 0:07:56.720 the twelfth that was then downloaded, that that phone wasn't 0:07:56.760 --> 0:07:58.920 actually a different one to the one he was given 0:07:58.920 --> 0:08:00.360 on the sixth, just that they'd had I had this 0:08:00.400 --> 0:08:03.360 discussion about him getting a new handset, and that he 0:08:03.440 --> 0:08:06.840 also spoke briefly about Donald Pattison's phone too, and he 0:08:06.880 --> 0:08:09.680 said he didn't uncover much on that particular phone. It 0:08:09.720 --> 0:08:11.560 was fairly empty and there was a bit of reaction 0:08:11.640 --> 0:08:12.240 to that in the court. 0:08:12.480 --> 0:08:14.880 There is a lot of laughter in the courtroom at 0:08:14.920 --> 0:08:17.440 that time. I was sitting in the back row and 0:08:17.560 --> 0:08:19.880 had a pretty good view of everybody that was in 0:08:19.920 --> 0:08:24.000 there today, and from all of the jury members, from 0:08:24.480 --> 0:08:26.960 all of the family members, from the Pattisons and Wilkinson's, 0:08:27.000 --> 0:08:29.920 they were all having a bit of a chuckle as 0:08:29.920 --> 0:08:32.959 that was mentioned. The suggestion made that Don really didn't 0:08:33.080 --> 0:08:35.400 use his phone that much. Even looking at the judge, 0:08:35.440 --> 0:08:37.240 there was a bit of a smile on his face. 0:08:37.280 --> 0:08:40.160 It was one of those softer moments during this trial. 0:08:40.600 --> 0:08:44.760 And the jury's also been shown some CCTV. Now they've 0:08:44.760 --> 0:08:47.640 been shown this a number of times throughout the detective's evidence, 0:08:47.679 --> 0:08:50.640 and this is CCTV that they've been told came from 0:08:50.880 --> 0:08:53.520 near a subway store in Lee and Gatha, and it 0:08:53.559 --> 0:08:55.720 showed a red car and a couple of other things. 0:08:55.720 --> 0:08:58.960 But when the detective was taken back to this by 0:08:59.080 --> 0:09:03.600 the defense, there's asked some really quite specific questions regarding 0:09:03.640 --> 0:09:04.680 that particular video. 0:09:04.880 --> 0:09:08.560 Yeah, he was challenged on who it was that the 0:09:08.600 --> 0:09:11.880 prosecution alleged got out of that car and walked into 0:09:11.920 --> 0:09:15.200 the subway's store making a purchase. As the person they 0:09:15.200 --> 0:09:17.920 allege was Aaron Patterson drove away for eleven minutes in 0:09:17.960 --> 0:09:21.360 that vehicle, which they've been unable to ascertain details about 0:09:21.360 --> 0:09:25.640 before returning. So the prosecution cases and Stephen eppings Stall 0:09:25.760 --> 0:09:29.240 maintained that Aaron Patterson had dropped her son off at 0:09:29.240 --> 0:09:32.240 that subway store. He'd walked in the dark through some 0:09:32.240 --> 0:09:36.440 sort of dimly lit concrete walkway into the store, and 0:09:36.480 --> 0:09:38.440 then she'd come back and picked him back up. But 0:09:38.559 --> 0:09:43.640 Colin Mandy suggested today Penny, was this really the accused 0:09:43.679 --> 0:09:46.040 woman's son or was this a different boy? And they 0:09:46.160 --> 0:09:51.000 used photographs that had been taken of the accused of 0:09:51.040 --> 0:09:54.280 the accused woman's son during his video evidence and during 0:09:54.320 --> 0:09:57.680 an earlier exhibit we heard a rocket video he'd been 0:09:58.280 --> 0:10:01.520 doing with his grandfather Don that we're using that to 0:10:01.559 --> 0:10:06.120 try and compare. The defense was to Stephen Eppingstall, is 0:10:06.200 --> 0:10:08.400 this really him or is this somebody else's. 0:10:08.280 --> 0:10:10.760 Let's hear a little bit about what Stephen Eppingstall said 0:10:10.880 --> 0:10:11.680 in his evidence. 0:10:12.240 --> 0:10:14.560 Can I suggest that this is a still from the 0:10:14.600 --> 0:10:16.800 CCTV footage inside the subway? 0:10:17.200 --> 0:10:17.440 Yep? 0:10:17.720 --> 0:10:19.840 And that is not the sun. 0:10:20.360 --> 0:10:22.480 I believe it to be him, but it's obviously a 0:10:22.520 --> 0:10:23.320 matter for the jury. 0:10:23.559 --> 0:10:28.240 All Right, Well, let's just compare that image then with well, 0:10:28.360 --> 0:10:30.920 so we all know that you agree that the first 0:10:30.960 --> 0:10:35.040 photo is the sun. Yes, yes, we'll just show you 0:10:35.120 --> 0:10:38.080 a still from the video interview now that we know 0:10:38.160 --> 0:10:40.920 to be him. Yes, two weeks later on the sixteenth 0:10:40.920 --> 0:10:41.640 of August. 0:10:41.480 --> 0:10:45.520 Yeah, the two and a half. Yes, yes, sir, yep. 0:10:45.760 --> 0:10:47.600 And do you agree with me that that's not the 0:10:47.640 --> 0:10:50.240 same person as is depicted in the subway footage. 0:10:50.400 --> 0:10:52.600 Oh, to me, he looks more like the subway guy 0:10:52.679 --> 0:10:53.839 than that first photo, sir. 0:10:53.960 --> 0:10:56.240 Yes, Well, that might be right, but it's still not 0:10:56.480 --> 0:10:57.200 the same person. 0:10:57.440 --> 0:10:59.680 Okay, And again that's a matter for the jury, sir. 0:11:00.000 --> 0:11:02.240 I'm not suggesting that there wasn't a visit to Subway. 0:11:02.640 --> 0:11:05.440 No, I understand that. Yeah, I understand. 0:11:04.960 --> 0:11:07.120 That we're saying the path I've got the wrong one, 0:11:07.400 --> 0:11:08.160 is what you're saying. 0:11:08.280 --> 0:11:11.480 Yes, I don't think so, But that's a matter for you, sir. 0:11:12.080 --> 0:11:13.800 Just to come back to that, the jury has been 0:11:13.800 --> 0:11:17.960 told that this particular CCTV came from the night of 0:11:18.000 --> 0:11:20.800 the twenty ninth of July, that that on that night, 0:11:20.840 --> 0:11:23.520 there's been other evidence given that Aaron Patterson had been 0:11:23.600 --> 0:11:27.080 dropping this boy's friend off to his home, and that 0:11:27.160 --> 0:11:30.319 then the prosecution had alleged they'd gone to Subway and 0:11:30.360 --> 0:11:33.480 as part of this sort of lead into trying to 0:11:33.520 --> 0:11:36.240 work out who was the boy being shown in the 0:11:36.280 --> 0:11:39.520 footage in these very close up screen grabs from the 0:11:39.520 --> 0:11:41.240 footage that were being zoomed in, and that you could 0:11:41.240 --> 0:11:43.640 hear the detective just speaking about. Then in that voiced 0:11:43.640 --> 0:11:48.040 evidence he spoke to the defense about when they asked, well, 0:11:48.040 --> 0:11:51.160 how did you you know confirm this? He says Simon 0:11:51.240 --> 0:11:55.560 Patterson had told him that there had been a subway 0:11:55.559 --> 0:11:58.680 dinner that night for his son, and he said that 0:11:58.720 --> 0:12:00.320 it was then when they went to look for this 0:12:00.360 --> 0:12:03.840 CCTV to try and find the right time code because 0:12:03.880 --> 0:12:07.760 CCTV sometimes is out with the times, that he actually 0:12:08.160 --> 0:12:10.760 asked Simon Patterson to go through the son's bank account 0:12:10.760 --> 0:12:13.600 looking for a transaction and that it was a transaction 0:12:13.720 --> 0:12:16.800 from that bank account for about seven twenty five PM 0:12:17.120 --> 0:12:20.319 that he relied on to then try and find this CCTV. 0:12:20.400 --> 0:12:22.880 And as you just heard, then he certainly maintains that 0:12:22.960 --> 0:12:25.880 this was Aaron Patterson's son in the particular vision. But 0:12:25.920 --> 0:12:29.240 when he was questioned by the defense, Colin Mandy mentioned, well, 0:12:29.480 --> 0:12:32.119 how did you know basically that the bank records had 0:12:32.160 --> 0:12:33.840 the correct time on that too, So there was a 0:12:33.840 --> 0:12:36.240 bit of back and forth around a few elements of 0:12:36.240 --> 0:12:37.120 this CCTV. 0:12:37.360 --> 0:12:39.680 Yeah, and when Eppingstaal was asked, how do you explain 0:12:39.800 --> 0:12:42.080 these discrepancies that may have occurred, he said, I've got 0:12:42.080 --> 0:12:44.839 no idea, and then they moved on quickly to another topic. 0:12:44.880 --> 0:12:46.520 As we said, there was quite a few today, but 0:12:46.800 --> 0:12:48.240 that was one of the ones that he was really 0:12:48.320 --> 0:12:50.760 pressed quite heavily on of his memory of it. And 0:12:51.040 --> 0:12:54.400 when the different photographs of who the prosecution say Zick's 0:12:54.440 --> 0:12:56.600 son was shown on the screen, you could see a 0:12:56.600 --> 0:12:58.920 lot of members of the jury staring at the big screen. 0:12:58.960 --> 0:13:00.960 You could also see many members of the public in 0:13:01.000 --> 0:13:03.160 the courtroom sort of turning and looking at one another. 0:13:03.200 --> 0:13:06.000 And we know it was a really really packed courtroom 0:13:06.360 --> 0:13:09.400 again today. There was about six members of the homicide 0:13:09.440 --> 0:13:12.360 squad attended today alongside Eppingstall who was sitting in the 0:13:12.400 --> 0:13:14.679 public gallery. There was a number of press and there 0:13:14.720 --> 0:13:17.160 was also a lot of members of the public as well. 0:13:17.760 --> 0:13:20.079 Yeah, and one of the other things that was mentioned 0:13:20.120 --> 0:13:23.280 regarding Aaron Patterson's children in some of the things that 0:13:23.920 --> 0:13:26.640 the cross examination has focused on was sort of the 0:13:27.040 --> 0:13:29.560 memories of the children and the evidence that they'd given 0:13:29.600 --> 0:13:32.040 in these pre recorded videos that the jury was played 0:13:32.360 --> 0:13:36.040 earlier in the trial. Now, Colin Mandy took the detective 0:13:36.120 --> 0:13:39.640 today to those two videos and in it he was 0:13:40.360 --> 0:13:43.040 asking about, you know, the sun had given evidence in 0:13:43.040 --> 0:13:46.119 that video that they'd stopped at an outback jack donut 0:13:46.760 --> 0:13:49.640 stop at Cooi Rup in Gippsland sort of as part 0:13:49.679 --> 0:13:53.280 of their trip on the way back from Taiab. Now 0:13:53.600 --> 0:13:56.920 it was mentioned that yes, that seemed to be correct 0:13:56.920 --> 0:13:58.720 and that seemed to be consistent with what the jury 0:13:58.720 --> 0:14:01.440 has then been shown in bang records. But then there 0:14:01.480 --> 0:14:04.719 was a question from the defense regarding a stop at 0:14:04.720 --> 0:14:08.120 the Caldermeaede service station the BP that the jury has 0:14:08.160 --> 0:14:11.640 been shown CCTV of and a receipt in regards to 0:14:11.679 --> 0:14:14.520 the transaction made there and what was ordered with a 0:14:14.600 --> 0:14:17.840 ham sandwich, a sweet chili chicken wrap and a packet 0:14:17.840 --> 0:14:20.800 of gum shown as part of the evidence of this 0:14:20.960 --> 0:14:24.360 detective on a receipt that the prosecution alleged was what 0:14:24.400 --> 0:14:28.160 Aaron Patterson had purchased in the CCTV that has been 0:14:28.200 --> 0:14:30.400 shown to the court of a woman entering that service 0:14:30.440 --> 0:14:33.520 station on that day. But it was mentioned by the 0:14:33.560 --> 0:14:37.280 defense basically that this wasn't mentioned by the child when 0:14:37.400 --> 0:14:40.240 he gave his evidence when it was pre recorded and 0:14:40.320 --> 0:14:41.200 then played to the court. 0:14:41.280 --> 0:14:43.080 It wasn't part of his memory. Is the way that 0:14:43.120 --> 0:14:46.600 the jury was told that when he gave his video 0:14:46.680 --> 0:14:49.240 recorded evidence, that he only recalled that there was one 0:14:49.280 --> 0:14:51.160 stop on the way back, and that was at the 0:14:51.160 --> 0:14:53.680 stop where they stopped at the Doughnut Fan And there 0:14:53.720 --> 0:14:57.680 wasn't a memory in his video recording of them stopping 0:14:57.720 --> 0:14:59.200 at the BP at Colder Meade. 0:14:59.200 --> 0:15:01.520 And the detective read with that as well, we'll be 0:15:01.560 --> 0:15:06.800 back with more evidence after this. The defense, continuing with 0:15:06.880 --> 0:15:12.080 the cross examination, also asked about again bank records, phone records, 0:15:12.360 --> 0:15:14.680 phone numbers, things like that, and what was put to 0:15:14.720 --> 0:15:18.040 the detective was that on the fourth of August, when 0:15:18.040 --> 0:15:20.720 the homicide squad already had carriage of this investigation, and 0:15:20.760 --> 0:15:23.240 before the search of Aaron Patterson's home on the fifth, 0:15:23.480 --> 0:15:26.120 which later that day there was this record of interview 0:15:26.120 --> 0:15:28.960 that's been played to the jury, that there had been 0:15:29.000 --> 0:15:33.200 an email sent that this detective was aware of regarding 0:15:33.200 --> 0:15:37.440 Aaron Patterson's different bank records, And the defense pressed the 0:15:37.480 --> 0:15:40.520 detective on whether or not they looked at the bank 0:15:40.560 --> 0:15:43.720 records all the way back to April of twenty twenty three, 0:15:43.760 --> 0:15:46.400 and he said that they hadn't. Here's a little bit 0:15:46.440 --> 0:15:48.800 of the detective's evidence while he was being questioned by 0:15:48.880 --> 0:15:52.000 Colin Mandy from the defense. It's voiced by actors, and 0:15:52.040 --> 0:15:55.440 it also includes, as well as the bank records, questions 0:15:55.480 --> 0:15:57.280 around particular phone numbers. 0:15:58.080 --> 0:16:01.680 You knew that Aaron Patterson was utilizing the phone number 0:16:02.280 --> 0:16:06.000 ending in seven eighty three prior to the execution of 0:16:06.120 --> 0:16:06.880 the search warrant. 0:16:06.960 --> 0:16:07.880 Yes, that is correct. 0:16:08.200 --> 0:16:10.280 And you knew that she'd been in the Mount Waverley 0:16:10.400 --> 0:16:13.720 area in April of twenty twenty three, Yes, sir. And 0:16:13.760 --> 0:16:15.840 you didn't ask her about that the last of those 0:16:15.880 --> 0:16:18.560 things in the record of the interview. Yeah, the Mount 0:16:18.560 --> 0:16:20.880 Waverley the fact that she'd been spending time there in 0:16:20.920 --> 0:16:22.080 April of twenty twenty three. 0:16:22.360 --> 0:16:22.960 No. 0:16:22.960 --> 0:16:24.920 No, And you didn't ask her about the fact of 0:16:25.000 --> 0:16:27.160 the seven eight three mobile number in the record of 0:16:27.200 --> 0:16:27.920 the interview. No. 0:16:28.080 --> 0:16:30.240 I asked her for her phone number in the record 0:16:30.240 --> 0:16:32.840 of interview, and I didn't realize that she hadn't given 0:16:32.920 --> 0:16:35.280 me that number. I just wrote it down and just 0:16:35.360 --> 0:16:36.120 moved past it. 0:16:36.320 --> 0:16:39.040 Okay, but she gave you the phone number of the phone. 0:16:38.760 --> 0:16:41.000 That she she gave me an eight three five number. 0:16:40.800 --> 0:16:42.640 Sir, Did she surrender to the police earlier? 0:16:42.760 --> 0:16:45.400 Yeah? Correct, Yeah, I just wrote it down and didn't 0:16:45.400 --> 0:16:47.160 give it any more thought until later on. 0:16:47.480 --> 0:16:50.640 Now, the jury was also shown again a number of 0:16:50.680 --> 0:16:54.040 Facebook messages and a number of signal messages or text 0:16:54.040 --> 0:16:56.160 messages that will go through in a moment as part 0:16:56.160 --> 0:16:58.760 of the cross examination of the detective. Some of the 0:16:58.800 --> 0:17:01.320 Facebook messages that were they were part of an exhibit 0:17:01.360 --> 0:17:03.400 that has already been shown to the jury what's been 0:17:03.440 --> 0:17:07.199 called the online Friends' Facebook chat with a number of 0:17:07.240 --> 0:17:10.760 different women as well as who the defense said today 0:17:10.920 --> 0:17:13.639 was Aaron Patterson also sending these sort of replies to 0:17:13.680 --> 0:17:16.800 these messages. But today what was shown was a number 0:17:16.800 --> 0:17:20.000 of other pages between essentially the messages that have already 0:17:20.000 --> 0:17:21.960 been shown to the jury. And it was mentioned by 0:17:22.320 --> 0:17:25.040 Colin man dysc that there was around one hundred and 0:17:25.119 --> 0:17:28.960 eighty six pages of these messages that spanned this time 0:17:29.040 --> 0:17:31.480 frame that the other messages sort of have come from 0:17:31.480 --> 0:17:32.640 that the jury's already seen. 0:17:32.640 --> 0:17:34.720 And yeah, he said there was context. He wanted to 0:17:34.840 --> 0:17:37.800 He was saying to the informant that, yes, you've selected 0:17:37.800 --> 0:17:39.720 a few of these messages and you've told these to 0:17:39.760 --> 0:17:41.520 the jury, you've read these to the juries part of 0:17:41.560 --> 0:17:45.119 the prosecution case. But I want you jury explained to 0:17:45.160 --> 0:17:46.879 you that there's more context here, and I want to 0:17:46.880 --> 0:17:49.480 put to you, as the lead investigator, that you haven't 0:17:49.480 --> 0:17:51.320 included all of the messages in the evidence that the 0:17:51.400 --> 0:17:54.640 jury's heard thus far. And here there's other women one 0:17:54.720 --> 0:17:58.240 name redacted, one was another woman who have replied, and 0:17:58.280 --> 0:18:00.680 then a lot of Eron's messages then follow those. 0:18:00.520 --> 0:18:02.640 Replies, and as we said, some of those are messages 0:18:02.680 --> 0:18:04.919 that the jury has already seen and you may have 0:18:05.240 --> 0:18:08.359 heard in our previous episodes where this was sort of 0:18:08.400 --> 0:18:11.880 first covered with the prosecution, But those messages were all 0:18:11.920 --> 0:18:17.160 sort of centering around how Erin was feeling and sort 0:18:17.200 --> 0:18:20.800 of coping at the time with Simon and with his family, 0:18:21.119 --> 0:18:25.760 especially regarding issues around the children and financial issues. And 0:18:25.280 --> 0:18:28.160 what was read to the jury today by Colin Mandy 0:18:28.200 --> 0:18:30.720 while he was doing this cross examination with the detective 0:18:30.840 --> 0:18:33.400 was a number of these different messages and we'll let 0:18:33.400 --> 0:18:34.600 you hear a little bit of that now. 0:18:34.680 --> 0:18:36.919 It's voiced by actors. Now, I'm not going to go 0:18:36.960 --> 0:18:39.439 through every one of these messages unless someone wants me to, 0:18:40.000 --> 0:18:41.520 but I am going to give you some examples of 0:18:41.520 --> 0:18:45.720 the context. So the first message that's extracted by the 0:18:45.760 --> 0:18:49.400 prosecution is the third one on that page. So Simon's 0:18:49.480 --> 0:18:52.160 dad contacted me this morning, et cetera, et cetera, Yes, sir, 0:18:52.280 --> 0:18:54.800 And then the following messages have been left out by 0:18:54.840 --> 0:18:58.600 the prosecution's exhibit, which is the discussion that flows from 0:18:58.680 --> 0:19:03.160 these propositions. A friend says, what morons at the time 0:19:03.240 --> 0:19:05.640 ten twenty three thirty six? Is that right? Yes, sir, 0:19:05.880 --> 0:19:08.960 Scroll down a bit, and then the same woman says 0:19:09.000 --> 0:19:13.359