1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:03,280 S1: Hi, it's Samantha Selinger Morris here, and I am the 2 00:00:03,279 --> 00:00:06,280 S1: host of the Morning Edition. We're bringing you the best 3 00:00:06,280 --> 00:00:11,080 S1: episodes of 2025 before your Morning Edition team returns. Mid January. 4 00:00:12,640 --> 00:00:15,520 S1: A tax on tobacco seemed like a great idea to 5 00:00:15,560 --> 00:00:19,000 S1: deter smokers and raise revenue. But as the price of 6 00:00:19,000 --> 00:00:24,320 S1: cigarettes soared, major criminal organizations saw an opening and began 7 00:00:24,320 --> 00:00:29,480 S1: to pump cheap, illegal cigarettes into Australia, and violence came 8 00:00:29,480 --> 00:00:32,559 S1: along with it as warring gangs fought for control of 9 00:00:32,560 --> 00:00:36,479 S1: the trade in our major cities. Today, we returned to 10 00:00:36,520 --> 00:00:40,440 S1: an episode with senior economics correspondent Shane Wright on the 11 00:00:40,479 --> 00:00:45,760 S1: tobacco tax problem. So, Shane, we have seen a record 12 00:00:45,760 --> 00:00:48,519 S1: number of firebombings in recent years and we're going to 13 00:00:48,520 --> 00:00:50,400 S1: get into that. But first, I would love it if 14 00:00:50,400 --> 00:00:52,960 S1: you could just briefly take us back to the beginning. 15 00:00:53,240 --> 00:00:57,200 S1: When did tobacco control measures really start ramping up in Australia? 16 00:00:57,640 --> 00:01:02,660 S2: Well, there's been excise on tobacco since federation like so. 17 00:01:02,700 --> 00:01:04,380 S2: It's a long time ago, but it was seen just 18 00:01:04,380 --> 00:01:05,940 S2: as a way to raise a bit of money for 19 00:01:05,940 --> 00:01:10,100 S2: a government that didn't have an income tax. There are 20 00:01:10,100 --> 00:01:14,459 S2: different ways that you can tax things or raise revenue 21 00:01:14,860 --> 00:01:18,619 S2: when it comes to tobacco. We usually call it an excise. 22 00:01:18,620 --> 00:01:21,300 S2: So there is a real legal definition of what an 23 00:01:21,300 --> 00:01:24,660 S2: excise is, as opposed to, say, an income tax or 24 00:01:24,700 --> 00:01:28,700 S2: a duty. In this country, we call the impost that 25 00:01:28,700 --> 00:01:33,660 S2: we put on a cigarette as it's sold as an excise. 26 00:01:34,459 --> 00:01:38,620 S2: Once you get into the early 1970s when people start going, 27 00:01:38,620 --> 00:01:41,940 S2: hold on, smoking cigarettes is not good for your health. 28 00:01:42,300 --> 00:01:45,580 S2: That's where you see the federal government and the states 29 00:01:45,620 --> 00:01:48,100 S2: started to really lift these. 30 00:01:48,780 --> 00:01:53,380 S3: I owe everything I have to cigarettes, my cough stained fingers, 31 00:01:53,380 --> 00:01:57,420 S3: yellow teeth and incurable lung cancer. 32 00:01:58,220 --> 00:02:01,620 S2: Then you get into the early 90s where there's a 33 00:02:01,740 --> 00:02:06,120 S2: like we're talking 50% increase in excise year on year. 34 00:02:06,520 --> 00:02:08,919 S2: So there used to be an old joke about, uh, 35 00:02:08,919 --> 00:02:13,399 S2: federal budgets with the headline was always beer and cigs up. Um, 36 00:02:14,040 --> 00:02:18,720 S2: these were real hefty increases because people were starting to 37 00:02:18,760 --> 00:02:22,359 S2: realize just how dangerous cigarettes were. Australia was a real 38 00:02:22,360 --> 00:02:26,320 S2: leader globally in terms of trying to reduce smoking rates. 39 00:02:26,320 --> 00:02:30,200 S2: So and then you get into about 2010, Kevin Rudd 40 00:02:30,480 --> 00:02:35,000 S2: starts going bang will go some really sizable increases again 41 00:02:35,000 --> 00:02:35,880 S2: in excise. 42 00:02:36,040 --> 00:02:41,359 S4: Around 30% of cancer is caused by tobacco consumption. This 43 00:02:41,360 --> 00:02:44,880 S4: will kill 15,000 Australians each year. Is that going to 44 00:02:44,880 --> 00:02:45,639 S4: stop you smoking? 45 00:02:45,680 --> 00:02:46,760 S5: Oh probably not. 46 00:02:46,800 --> 00:02:49,640 S6: I don't think it's really fair. It shouldn't be that far. 47 00:02:49,800 --> 00:02:50,639 S7: It's ridiculous. 48 00:02:50,840 --> 00:02:53,520 S8: Shopkeepers have just tonight to change the prices. 49 00:02:53,840 --> 00:02:57,799 S2: Kevin Rudd's interesting because his government led the global charge 50 00:02:57,800 --> 00:02:59,320 S2: on plain packaging. 51 00:02:59,480 --> 00:03:03,840 S4: Tobacco companies are going to die in a ditch. Opposing 52 00:03:03,880 --> 00:03:06,710 S4: this sort of packaging. 53 00:03:07,150 --> 00:03:11,950 S2: But then you get to 2018, 2019, big changes not 54 00:03:11,950 --> 00:03:18,230 S2: around excise but around when excise is determined. And this delivered, 55 00:03:18,230 --> 00:03:22,550 S2: it was about $3.5 billion extra in a single year 56 00:03:23,150 --> 00:03:27,269 S2: for Josh Frydenberg. And this year we're supposed to raise 57 00:03:27,270 --> 00:03:32,470 S2: about $8.9 billion of the excise that we have on tobacco. 58 00:03:34,070 --> 00:03:37,550 S1: How much did this impact smoking rates, all of these 59 00:03:37,550 --> 00:03:41,150 S1: increased taxes on cigarettes over the years, sort of really 60 00:03:41,150 --> 00:03:44,350 S1: ramping up, I guess most recently with the Rudd years. 61 00:03:44,630 --> 00:03:45,470 S1: What happened? 62 00:03:45,670 --> 00:03:48,990 S2: Well, Australia officially has some of the lowest smoking rates 63 00:03:48,990 --> 00:03:52,910 S2: in the developed world by like we are talking 10 64 00:03:52,910 --> 00:03:56,870 S2: to 15%. It's really hard to untangle everything because you've got, say, 65 00:03:56,870 --> 00:04:00,030 S2: the excise increase. You've got the end of advertising. Like 66 00:04:00,070 --> 00:04:05,110 S2: Paul Hogan famously advertised for a cigarette company on prime 67 00:04:05,150 --> 00:04:09,290 S2: time TV. We don't see anything like that. You don't? 68 00:04:09,290 --> 00:04:12,530 S2: You don't see smoking in films. Um, we were actually 69 00:04:12,530 --> 00:04:15,010 S2: talking in the office the other day just about how 70 00:04:15,410 --> 00:04:18,050 S2: rugby league, New South Wales used to used to play 71 00:04:18,050 --> 00:04:22,170 S2: for the Winfield Cup or the Australian cricket team played 72 00:04:22,170 --> 00:04:25,170 S2: in the Benson and Hedges Cup. That cultural aspect of 73 00:04:25,170 --> 00:04:29,810 S2: it has really changed. There's the pricing impact as well. 74 00:04:29,970 --> 00:04:34,690 S2: Then there's also the health awareness, like the days of, uh, 75 00:04:34,690 --> 00:04:39,609 S2: seeing advertisements from a doctor saying, these are the cigarettes 76 00:04:39,610 --> 00:04:43,610 S2: I smoke. You don't get the even the weirder ends 77 00:04:43,610 --> 00:04:47,170 S2: of the health industry or the health lobby saying smoking 78 00:04:47,170 --> 00:04:50,010 S2: is good for you. So yeah, that trying to pull 79 00:04:50,010 --> 00:04:55,010 S2: apart how each one, what part they've played is really 80 00:04:55,010 --> 00:04:58,650 S2: difficult to tell, but the Bureau of Stats actually tracks 81 00:04:59,130 --> 00:05:05,050 S2: household consumption of tobacco, and that has like that has 82 00:05:05,050 --> 00:05:09,469 S2: just utterly collapsed, Utterly collapsed. It's easy. You walk around 83 00:05:09,470 --> 00:05:11,950 S2: the streets, you don't see a lot of people smoking. 84 00:05:11,950 --> 00:05:14,310 S2: That's that's one of the giveaways of what's going on. 85 00:05:14,510 --> 00:05:17,070 S1: Okay, so that sounds good, right? It sounds like people 86 00:05:17,070 --> 00:05:20,910 S1: are smoking less, but that's actually not the full picture, 87 00:05:20,910 --> 00:05:22,830 S1: is it, Shane? So tell us what's going on. 88 00:05:23,190 --> 00:05:25,750 S2: Well, this is where we get to the budget. So 89 00:05:25,790 --> 00:05:28,630 S2: the current budget just in the mid-year update that was 90 00:05:28,630 --> 00:05:32,870 S2: released by Jim Chalmers in December, they've had the Treasury 91 00:05:32,910 --> 00:05:34,429 S2: has had a look at what's gone on and went, 92 00:05:34,430 --> 00:05:37,350 S2: oh my God, we are not getting close. We are 93 00:05:37,350 --> 00:05:39,550 S2: not getting close to what we'd actually thought we were 94 00:05:39,550 --> 00:05:43,790 S2: going to get. So they sliced their forecast by 25%. 95 00:05:44,070 --> 00:05:47,190 S2: So this year, their best guess is the government will 96 00:05:47,190 --> 00:05:52,470 S2: collect $8.9 billion in tobacco excise in a budget where 97 00:05:52,470 --> 00:05:58,230 S2: there's $550 billion worth of tax and revenue. So it's 98 00:05:58,230 --> 00:06:04,830 S2: just collapsed unexpectedly. And cumulatively, there are about $31 billion 99 00:06:04,830 --> 00:06:08,510 S2: short of where they thought they'd be. So while we've 100 00:06:08,570 --> 00:06:12,170 S2: seen a drop in smoking, it's not that large of 101 00:06:12,170 --> 00:06:15,969 S2: a drop, as the budget figures would suggest. The discrepancy 102 00:06:16,010 --> 00:06:19,410 S2: points us in one direction people are flocking to the 103 00:06:19,410 --> 00:06:20,450 S2: black market. 104 00:06:21,089 --> 00:06:22,930 S1: Okay, well, let's get into this because it's one thing 105 00:06:22,930 --> 00:06:25,730 S1: that the government's losing all kinds of money in tax. 106 00:06:25,770 --> 00:06:27,570 S1: You know, the average punter might not be so worried 107 00:06:27,570 --> 00:06:29,969 S1: about that. And of course, there has been a black 108 00:06:30,010 --> 00:06:33,010 S1: market for cigarettes for a long time. But of course, 109 00:06:33,010 --> 00:06:37,250 S1: now we're seeing a really rapidly increasing level of violence 110 00:06:37,250 --> 00:06:39,210 S1: that's going hand in hand with this black market. So 111 00:06:39,250 --> 00:06:40,490 S1: tell us what's been happening. 112 00:06:41,570 --> 00:06:44,250 S2: We've actually seen it played out, particularly in Melbourne where 113 00:06:44,250 --> 00:06:49,529 S2: you've got organised crime syndicates realising, yep, we can fill 114 00:06:49,529 --> 00:06:54,650 S2: that space. And they're taking out their opponents by firebombing 115 00:06:55,089 --> 00:06:59,810 S2: legal tobacco places or places that outwardly are legal but 116 00:06:59,810 --> 00:07:03,570 S2: are thought to be maybe supplying cheaper cigarettes as well. 117 00:07:03,770 --> 00:07:07,930 S9: Melbourne's tobacco war has exploded again and Oakley store firebombed 118 00:07:07,930 --> 00:07:10,830 S9: for the second time in a fortnight. police are trying to. 119 00:07:11,030 --> 00:07:15,510 S10: Tobacco shop has been firebombed, the 16th consecutive arson attack 120 00:07:15,510 --> 00:07:17,630 S10: in a black market war that is escalating. 121 00:07:17,670 --> 00:07:22,350 S11: Dedicated task force investigating more than 100 fires dating back 122 00:07:22,350 --> 00:07:26,110 S11: to March last year, leading to 95 arrests. 123 00:07:26,550 --> 00:07:29,350 S2: That seems the most obvious that if you push something 124 00:07:29,390 --> 00:07:34,030 S2: up in price 40, 50, $60 a pack or even more, 125 00:07:34,550 --> 00:07:37,790 S2: you've just given people a financial incentive to go to 126 00:07:38,470 --> 00:07:41,750 S2: a dodgy place to buy cheap cigarettes. Organized crime will 127 00:07:41,750 --> 00:07:46,070 S2: find a way to make it profitable for themselves. Like 128 00:07:46,150 --> 00:07:49,590 S2: we sent, uh, my partner in crime here in Canberra 129 00:07:49,630 --> 00:07:55,030 S2: merely moroi out to find illegal cigarettes. Within a kilometer 130 00:07:55,030 --> 00:07:57,350 S2: and a half of the federal parliament, she was able 131 00:07:57,350 --> 00:08:00,150 S2: to find a place where you could buy them. So 132 00:08:00,190 --> 00:08:05,710 S2: they are everywhere. And that's really clearly eating in to 133 00:08:05,750 --> 00:08:09,310 S2: this aspect. This is like the history of organized crime 134 00:08:09,550 --> 00:08:14,740 S2: back from New York fighting prohibition and, uh, and dodgy 135 00:08:14,780 --> 00:08:18,060 S2: sellers of Canadian whiskey. This is how it plays out. 136 00:08:18,100 --> 00:08:21,020 S2: And that's what's going on. Just last week, the tax 137 00:08:21,020 --> 00:08:24,540 S2: office and Border Force had a raid in north central 138 00:08:24,540 --> 00:08:28,500 S2: Victoria and seized, I think it was a several tonne 139 00:08:28,700 --> 00:08:33,380 S2: of illicit tobacco worth $35 million in terms of excise. 140 00:08:34,059 --> 00:08:37,420 S2: They are having to ramp up their activities because they 141 00:08:37,740 --> 00:08:41,579 S2: are seeing how much illegal tobacco is being grown locally, 142 00:08:41,580 --> 00:08:44,860 S2: not just cigarettes being smuggled into the country, which is 143 00:08:44,860 --> 00:08:49,260 S2: another part of the organised crime trail of cigarette led 144 00:08:49,260 --> 00:08:50,420 S2: destruction going on. 145 00:08:53,580 --> 00:08:58,980 S1: We'll be right back. Okay, so how much pressure then, 146 00:08:59,020 --> 00:09:02,620 S1: is the government under to perhaps rethink these increasing taxes 147 00:09:02,620 --> 00:09:05,260 S1: on cigarettes? Because not only, of course, are there all 148 00:09:05,260 --> 00:09:08,860 S1: these gangland wars, but, you know, just in February, completely 149 00:09:08,860 --> 00:09:11,740 S1: innocent woman was killed when she was trapped in a 150 00:09:11,740 --> 00:09:13,559 S1: house that was set alight by gangs. 151 00:09:13,600 --> 00:09:16,640 S12: Kate Tanguay was house sitting for her brother in Truganina 152 00:09:16,640 --> 00:09:19,800 S12: when two strangers firebombed the home in a case of 153 00:09:19,800 --> 00:09:21,160 S12: mistaken identity. 154 00:09:21,200 --> 00:09:23,040 S1: Crime reporter so what are you hearing? 155 00:09:23,400 --> 00:09:25,600 S2: Yeah, this is it. Neither side of politics wants to 156 00:09:25,640 --> 00:09:29,280 S2: go near it because the options are terrible. They really are. 157 00:09:29,320 --> 00:09:31,680 S2: Do you would you be able to have a treasurer 158 00:09:31,679 --> 00:09:33,800 S2: stand up on budget night and say, right, we're going 159 00:09:33,800 --> 00:09:38,079 S2: to reduce the tax on cigarettes. And you can see 160 00:09:38,080 --> 00:09:43,120 S2: the public health lobby would absolutely go off because we 161 00:09:43,120 --> 00:09:48,000 S2: have used higher priced cigarettes to curb smoking, and it 162 00:09:48,000 --> 00:09:53,600 S2: has definitely affected it. People most affected by smoking are 163 00:09:53,880 --> 00:10:00,000 S2: low income, rural indigenous people, those three separate groups, they 164 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:03,080 S2: have the highest smoking rates in the country. Smoking will 165 00:10:03,080 --> 00:10:07,959 S2: make you poor. It will kill you. But like any addiction, 166 00:10:08,280 --> 00:10:12,160 S2: it's hard to break the budget is is similarly addicted 167 00:10:12,160 --> 00:10:17,580 S2: to having the these higher taxes on cigarettes, even though 168 00:10:17,580 --> 00:10:21,420 S2: it is clear. And to his credit, the Jim Chalmers 169 00:10:21,420 --> 00:10:25,180 S2: has conceded just by the numbers, saying we can't we 170 00:10:25,220 --> 00:10:27,700 S2: can't fool ourselves into thinking we're going to get ever 171 00:10:27,700 --> 00:10:30,780 S2: increasing amounts of tobacco excise. 172 00:10:30,820 --> 00:10:33,740 S1: Okay, so governments since federation, you know, you've walked us 173 00:10:33,740 --> 00:10:36,260 S1: through this. They've they've been taxing tobacco. But it sounds 174 00:10:36,260 --> 00:10:39,380 S1: like we're sort of past a tipping point now because 175 00:10:39,420 --> 00:10:43,260 S1: there's all these unintended consequences. And just last week, the 176 00:10:43,260 --> 00:10:46,660 S1: Minister for health, Mark Butler, announced millions more in funding 177 00:10:46,660 --> 00:10:48,500 S1: for Border Force crackdowns. 178 00:10:48,500 --> 00:10:51,380 S13: We're sending a very clear message to organised criminal gangs 179 00:10:51,380 --> 00:10:53,700 S13: who are operating in this market. We're going to track 180 00:10:53,700 --> 00:10:55,740 S13: you down, we're going to put you in the dock 181 00:10:55,740 --> 00:10:58,500 S13: and we're going to confiscate your criminal profits. 182 00:10:58,900 --> 00:11:02,580 S1: So tell us about this and what the likelihood is, 183 00:11:02,620 --> 00:11:05,100 S1: I guess, that the government is, is ready for this challenge, 184 00:11:05,100 --> 00:11:09,100 S1: that it can actually combat what's happening through, you know, 185 00:11:09,179 --> 00:11:10,500 S1: stronger enforcement. 186 00:11:10,540 --> 00:11:12,980 S2: Well, this is it. Like you can police something to 187 00:11:13,020 --> 00:11:18,200 S2: the nth degree. And we have seen this story. We have. 188 00:11:18,240 --> 00:11:23,080 S2: We've seen the movies about about prohibition. Like, look, I'm 189 00:11:23,080 --> 00:11:27,400 S2: waiting for someone to swagger out in a 1930s suit saying, look, 190 00:11:27,440 --> 00:11:30,680 S2: we've found all these dodgy cigarettes. We are saying that. 191 00:11:30,720 --> 00:11:34,280 S13: Behind us we have just 4 million of those 1.3 192 00:11:34,280 --> 00:11:38,960 S13: billion cigarettes seized in the last six months. That's a 50% 193 00:11:38,960 --> 00:11:41,920 S13: increase in seizures on the year before. 194 00:11:42,559 --> 00:11:45,040 S2: Like Border Force and the Tax office put up lovely 195 00:11:45,040 --> 00:11:48,559 S2: photos of their these large crops. I must admit I 196 00:11:48,600 --> 00:11:51,160 S2: lived in north east Victoria. I knew some of the 197 00:11:51,160 --> 00:11:55,480 S2: last tobacco legal tobacco growers and tobacco is a beautiful 198 00:11:55,480 --> 00:12:00,080 S2: looking crop, let me tell you. Uh, but trying to 199 00:12:00,640 --> 00:12:07,360 S2: stop something an addictive measure like smoking is exceedingly difficult. So. Yep, 200 00:12:07,360 --> 00:12:11,280 S2: you can throw up more money at policing, which has 201 00:12:11,880 --> 00:12:16,000 S2: like at the, at the border level actually has costs 202 00:12:16,000 --> 00:12:18,660 S2: to it to economic costs because you were having to 203 00:12:18,700 --> 00:12:22,740 S2: slow down how much stuff that's coming through a particular 204 00:12:22,740 --> 00:12:25,179 S2: port that has a cost that the rest of the 205 00:12:25,179 --> 00:12:26,900 S2: economy has to bear. 206 00:12:26,940 --> 00:12:29,860 S1: And so not to end on a down note here, Shane, 207 00:12:29,860 --> 00:12:33,179 S1: but if if we've seen the movies, we've seen the headlines, 208 00:12:33,179 --> 00:12:36,300 S1: we've seen, you know, attempts by governments around the world 209 00:12:36,300 --> 00:12:41,540 S1: to combat addictive substances, not very successfully. And then on 210 00:12:41,540 --> 00:12:44,100 S1: top of that, we know that the Albanese government is 211 00:12:44,100 --> 00:12:47,900 S1: just midway through a three year plan to to increase 212 00:12:47,900 --> 00:12:52,219 S1: tobacco tax by 5% a year for three years. So 213 00:12:52,220 --> 00:12:55,100 S1: does that mean we're actually just likely to see the 214 00:12:55,100 --> 00:12:57,020 S1: gangland warfare get worse? 215 00:12:57,540 --> 00:13:01,300 S2: Probably like just think this is where you and I, 216 00:13:01,580 --> 00:13:04,900 S2: we're taking a boat to go see The Untouchables, and 217 00:13:04,940 --> 00:13:07,380 S2: there's a there's a hole in that boat, and you 218 00:13:07,380 --> 00:13:10,860 S2: and I keep bailing it out, bailing it out. But 219 00:13:10,860 --> 00:13:13,660 S2: we're going nowhere. I think we've got to that point 220 00:13:13,660 --> 00:13:18,330 S2: where you. You really need some brand new thought process 221 00:13:18,330 --> 00:13:22,330 S2: around what's going on. But neither side of politics can 222 00:13:22,330 --> 00:13:25,209 S2: admit that there's such a big problem, because to do so, 223 00:13:25,250 --> 00:13:28,209 S2: we'd be going, oh my God, how do we fix it? 224 00:13:28,210 --> 00:13:30,490 S2: And no one's got a real proper answer right at 225 00:13:30,490 --> 00:13:32,490 S2: the moment. And it's it goes to the fact that 226 00:13:32,490 --> 00:13:36,650 S2: we've allowed the budget as a way from avoiding having 227 00:13:36,650 --> 00:13:41,050 S2: to make a tough decision in other areas. We've got cigarettes. 228 00:13:41,330 --> 00:13:45,329 S2: That's easy. We can just hike that. Both sides of 229 00:13:45,330 --> 00:13:47,850 S2: politics have done it. It'll give us revenue and revenue 230 00:13:47,850 --> 00:13:48,570 S2: until it doesn't. 231 00:13:48,610 --> 00:13:50,690 S1: I mean, it does make you wonder what sort of 232 00:13:50,730 --> 00:13:54,370 S1: carnage in the streets it will take for for someone 233 00:13:54,370 --> 00:13:56,290 S1: to take the political hit to tackle this. 234 00:13:56,610 --> 00:13:59,850 S2: Yeah. And making that argument again, saying, right, we've got 235 00:13:59,850 --> 00:14:03,570 S2: to draw a connection between the taxing regime of cigarettes 236 00:14:04,050 --> 00:14:08,970 S2: with arson in suburban Melbourne, like most people would struggle 237 00:14:08,970 --> 00:14:12,689 S2: to connect those two, but they are directly connected. 238 00:14:12,970 --> 00:14:16,689 S1: Well, Shane, who knew that tax could be so exciting? 239 00:14:16,690 --> 00:14:19,390 S2: Well, I did, and you do also know No, Sam. 240 00:14:19,390 --> 00:14:22,070 S1: It's something I do, I do, and I'm so happy 241 00:14:22,070 --> 00:14:24,670 S1: to have you here to to share it with our listeners. 242 00:14:24,950 --> 00:14:26,990 S1: So thank you so much, Shane, for your time. 243 00:14:26,990 --> 00:14:28,470 S2: It's always a pleasure, Sam. 244 00:14:35,830 --> 00:14:39,670 S1: Today's episode of The Morning Edition was produced by Julia Carcasole. 245 00:14:39,710 --> 00:14:43,230 S1: Our executive producer is Tami Mills. Our head of audio 246 00:14:43,230 --> 00:14:46,070 S1: is Tom McKendrick. The Morning Edition is a production of 247 00:14:46,070 --> 00:14:48,710 S1: The Age and The Sydney Morning Herald. If you enjoy 248 00:14:48,710 --> 00:14:51,230 S1: the show and want more of our journalism, subscribe to 249 00:14:51,270 --> 00:14:54,350 S1: our newspapers today. It's the best way to support what 250 00:14:54,350 --> 00:15:00,390 S1: we do. Search The Age or Smh.com.au to subscribe and 251 00:15:00,390 --> 00:15:03,110 S1: sign up for our Morning Edition newsletter. To receive a 252 00:15:03,110 --> 00:15:06,510 S1: comprehensive summary of the day's most important news, analysis and 253 00:15:06,510 --> 00:15:10,350 S1: insights in your inbox every day. Links are in the show. Notes. 254 00:15:10,990 --> 00:15:14,830 S1: I'm Samantha Selinger. Morris. This is the morning edition. Thanks 255 00:15:14,830 --> 00:15:15,590 S1: for listening.