WEBVTT - 'Under the Bridge', 'Presumed Innocent' and our obsession with crime shows 0:00:07.550 --> 0:00:10.640 Hey, I'm Melanie Kembrey and this is the drop a 0:00:10.640 --> 0:00:13.100 culture show from the Sydney Morning Herald and The Age, 0:00:13.100 --> 0:00:15.260 where we dive into the latest in the world of 0:00:15.260 --> 0:00:19.369 pop culture and entertainment. Osman Farooqi is sadly on leave 0:00:19.370 --> 0:00:22.009 just for this week, but I am joined by Thomas 0:00:22.010 --> 0:00:25.550 Mitchell and Meg Watson. Thomas, you've been off jet setting 0:00:25.550 --> 0:00:29.150 again from the Northern Territory to New York. What have 0:00:29.150 --> 0:00:31.460 some of the highlights been from the Big Apple? 0:00:31.490 --> 0:00:33.440 Yes, it makes it sound like I went from the 0:00:33.440 --> 0:00:34.790 Northern Territory to New York, but. 0:00:34.790 --> 0:00:36.470 I pretty much did. You've not worked since. 0:00:36.470 --> 0:00:39.320 Yeah, that's actually quite true. Yes, it was very nice. 0:00:39.320 --> 0:00:43.310 I went for a week for work for something TBC, 0:00:43.430 --> 0:00:46.670 but yeah, actually it was, it was very fun. It's 0:00:46.760 --> 0:00:50.300 obviously a great place to walk around in. Um, I 0:00:50.300 --> 0:00:52.580 really thought I would see someone famous because every time 0:00:52.580 --> 0:00:55.550 I've previously been, I've seen at least one famous person. Um, 0:00:55.550 --> 0:00:59.959 but sadly. Have you seen. Yeah. See, like, I my 0:00:59.960 --> 0:01:02.910 colleagues that I was with saw Sarah Paulson like ten 0:01:02.910 --> 0:01:05.150 minutes after I left them. Okay, so that was about 0:01:05.150 --> 0:01:07.340 as close as I got to, you know, a famous 0:01:07.340 --> 0:01:09.920 person experience, but otherwise it was. It was very fun. Um. 0:01:09.920 --> 0:01:11.000 And now I'm back. 0:01:11.030 --> 0:01:11.870 Eat good food. 0:01:11.870 --> 0:01:15.170 Yeah. Lots of pizza. Lots of bagels. Um, I really 0:01:15.170 --> 0:01:18.740 feel like the bagel culture. It's surprising to me that 0:01:18.740 --> 0:01:20.420 hasn't taken off here, given how much we love, like, 0:01:20.420 --> 0:01:22.850 breakfast foods and sandwiches and stuff. And everyone over there 0:01:22.850 --> 0:01:23.660 just eats them. 0:01:23.660 --> 0:01:26.119 It's taken off in Melbourne. We've got a lot of 0:01:26.120 --> 0:01:27.980 specialty shops which are hardcore. 0:01:27.980 --> 0:01:29.750 And do people like, get around it? 0:01:29.750 --> 0:01:32.480 Yeah, yeah, yeah, like like lines out the door every weekend. 0:01:32.480 --> 0:01:33.530 Really? Yeah. That's weird. 0:01:33.530 --> 0:01:35.570 I'm surprised Sydney doesn't have that. Yeah, that's weird, I know. 0:01:35.569 --> 0:01:37.910 And then I was kind of thinking, like, you always 0:01:37.910 --> 0:01:40.100 got to be thinking about potential businesses. I was like, 0:01:40.100 --> 0:01:43.070 maybe that can be a thing that I do in 0:01:43.069 --> 0:01:43.670 the future. Like, I. 0:01:43.670 --> 0:01:44.569 Can open a bagel. 0:01:44.569 --> 0:01:46.819 Business. Well, like, you know, there's a gap in the market, 0:01:46.819 --> 0:01:48.380 a gap with a hole in the middle, and I'm 0:01:48.380 --> 0:01:48.890 going to fill it. 0:01:48.890 --> 0:01:50.390 I don't think there is a gap. I think you've 0:01:50.390 --> 0:01:52.430 just not had bagels before. 0:01:52.430 --> 0:01:54.830 No, I've had them before. But like when you you 0:01:54.830 --> 0:01:57.560 guys have both been to New York, I'm assuming. Yes. 0:01:57.560 --> 0:02:00.140 You know how, like, there's this cafe chain called bluestone. 0:02:00.140 --> 0:02:03.080 It's like Australian started it. It's really popular and everyone's like, oh, 0:02:03.080 --> 0:02:05.029 go to bluestone if you want a good coffee. And 0:02:05.030 --> 0:02:08.360 I'm like that. You could do that same thing in reverse. Um, anyway, 0:02:08.360 --> 0:02:09.590 this is all the stuff I thought about when I 0:02:09.590 --> 0:02:10.100 was in New York. 0:02:10.250 --> 0:02:13.010 When you were working for your actual job. Meg, what 0:02:13.010 --> 0:02:13.520 about you? 0:02:13.520 --> 0:02:17.570 My week has been pretty crap by comparison. I have 0:02:17.570 --> 0:02:20.630 not been in New York. I've been sick in my house, 0:02:20.630 --> 0:02:26.240 thanks to my twins bringing home every illness from daycare. Um, 0:02:26.240 --> 0:02:28.730 and it's also been made worse by the fact that 0:02:28.730 --> 0:02:32.540 I'm currently writing the story for the SMH and the 0:02:32.540 --> 0:02:35.420 age about watching only ten play for a week, and 0:02:35.419 --> 0:02:38.600 so we've been doing a whole series of them. People 0:02:38.600 --> 0:02:40.700 have just watched iview for a week, SBS On Demand, 0:02:40.700 --> 0:02:42.740 and I put my hand up for Tenplay, which is 0:02:42.740 --> 0:02:46.309 like all well and good until you're stuck in your house, um, 0:02:46.310 --> 0:02:48.770 all day with only ten play to go on. So 0:02:48.770 --> 0:02:52.070 I've watched a lot of Taskmaster recently, and I was 0:02:52.070 --> 0:02:53.390 so thrilled when you asked me to be on this 0:02:53.389 --> 0:02:55.370 week's show, because I got to watch something else. Yeah. 0:02:55.520 --> 0:02:57.170 So how strict have you been? I've been. 0:02:57.169 --> 0:03:00.320 Pretty good. I've been pretty good. Um, if anything, though, 0:03:00.320 --> 0:03:03.440 it's made me watch less TV overall because I knew 0:03:03.440 --> 0:03:06.500 there wasn't much good stuff going. So it's maybe healthier actually. 0:03:06.500 --> 0:03:08.810 Is your partner like, does it hedeland fall into the 0:03:08.810 --> 0:03:09.470 remit of this? 0:03:09.470 --> 0:03:12.440 Like, that's been that was a real topic of discussion. Um, 0:03:12.440 --> 0:03:17.840 he was not stoked about the story. Um, but definitely 0:03:17.840 --> 0:03:21.050 a few nights he was just watching other stuff and 0:03:21.050 --> 0:03:24.620 I was, you know, cooking and not paying attention or like, 0:03:24.620 --> 0:03:28.280 went into my room to watch a much less fun show. 0:03:28.310 --> 0:03:31.430 Have you had any other discoveries apart from Taskmaster, which 0:03:31.430 --> 0:03:34.040 is very popular here? Anything else deep in the archives 0:03:34.040 --> 0:03:34.820 of Tenplay? 0:03:35.780 --> 0:03:38.720 Um, I mean, it's pretty good for reality TV if 0:03:38.720 --> 0:03:41.510 you're after reality TV, it's a decent place to be. 0:03:41.510 --> 0:03:44.210 And that includes not just Australian series, but UK and 0:03:44.210 --> 0:03:47.870 New Zealand, South Africa, they've got like full seasons of survivor, 0:03:47.870 --> 0:03:50.090 of things like the Traders, which I know Aussies talked 0:03:50.090 --> 0:03:51.500 about on the show a lot and is a really 0:03:51.500 --> 0:03:55.550 decent show. The UK version especially is great. Um, beyond 0:03:55.550 --> 0:03:59.690 that it is pretty bleak. There's no real scripted, um, 0:03:59.690 --> 0:04:02.990 comedy or drama, which is a real hole unless you 0:04:02.990 --> 0:04:05.510 want to watch The Secret Life of Us. Great. 0:04:05.660 --> 0:04:08.120 I was gonna say surely that. And, like, offspring would 0:04:08.120 --> 0:04:08.510 be on there. 0:04:08.900 --> 0:04:10.070 Yep, yep. 0:04:10.070 --> 0:04:13.160 Yes, they have all that. Um. So. Yeah. You'll love it, 0:04:13.160 --> 0:04:13.790 I guess. 0:04:13.790 --> 0:04:15.980 Yeah. Well, I'm looking forward to Thomas no doubt doing 0:04:15.980 --> 0:04:17.810 the nine, the nine play. 0:04:17.810 --> 0:04:20.510 One might do that anyway. Only watch either nine now 0:04:20.570 --> 0:04:24.080 or Stan and they just got such premium. 0:04:24.500 --> 0:04:29.570 Keep trying to fund your bagel business. Correct. All right. Well, 0:04:29.570 --> 0:04:32.359 speaking about good TV shows this week we're going to 0:04:32.360 --> 0:04:35.750 look into the art of television crime, the popularity of 0:04:35.750 --> 0:04:38.540 the genre, the ethics and exploitations. When it's done well, 0:04:38.540 --> 0:04:40.460 when it's done poorly. And we're going to look at 0:04:40.460 --> 0:04:43.820 two big shows which were released recently Under the Bridge, 0:04:43.820 --> 0:04:47.120 which is on Disney+, and Presumed Innocent, which is on 0:04:47.120 --> 0:04:49.790 Apple TV, to kick us off, I feel like there 0:04:49.790 --> 0:04:55.580 are a never ending stream of crime shows, documentaries, mini series. 0:04:55.580 --> 0:04:58.400 Are you guys big crime heads? Meg, when you're not 0:04:58.400 --> 0:05:02.210 watching Taskmaster, is it crime that you're hungering for? 0:05:02.960 --> 0:05:06.950 I don't think I would classify myself as someone who. 0:05:07.190 --> 0:05:09.890 Is a full true crime fan or anything like that. 0:05:09.890 --> 0:05:12.919 I'm not chasing those really gory Dockers or anything, but 0:05:12.920 --> 0:05:14.990 it's definitely part of my diet. I think I lean 0:05:14.990 --> 0:05:19.430 towards the kind of funnier fictional takes in the genre, 0:05:19.430 --> 0:05:24.739 the kind of Fargo, you know, Russian Doll was great. 0:05:24.740 --> 0:05:27.620 Even deadlock in the past year or so from, um, 0:05:27.830 --> 0:05:31.190 Kate McCartney and Kate McLennan was really a really fun 0:05:31.250 --> 0:05:34.760 comedy spin on the genre. Um, but I mean, I'm 0:05:34.760 --> 0:05:38.090 not above it either. Uh, during lockdowns, I binged every 0:05:38.089 --> 0:05:41.870 single episode of Law and Order SVU. Um, and if 0:05:41.870 --> 0:05:44.240 you have any idea of the back catalogue of that show, 0:05:44.240 --> 0:05:47.060 that is a lot, a lot of time and pretty, 0:05:47.060 --> 0:05:50.120 pretty bleak viewing as well. So it's part of the mix. 0:05:50.120 --> 0:05:51.830 But I'm not a die hard, I think. How about. 0:05:51.830 --> 0:05:53.720 You? I feel like there has been a real rise 0:05:53.720 --> 0:05:56.179 of that kind of funny crime. Only murders in the 0:05:56.180 --> 0:05:59.570 building is another one where it's less about the crime itself, 0:05:59.570 --> 0:06:03.529 as much about the jokes that are made solving the crime. Thomas, 0:06:03.529 --> 0:06:05.240 I know you like a bit of crime, I think. 0:06:05.240 --> 0:06:07.700 Yeah, actually, like, I actually am a bit of a 0:06:07.700 --> 0:06:11.479 crime head, even though I don't classify myself that way. 0:06:11.480 --> 0:06:13.700 But when I was, like, thinking about this, I do 0:06:13.700 --> 0:06:16.220 often feel like now one of the first things I 0:06:16.220 --> 0:06:17.450 go to when I'm looking for a new show, like 0:06:17.450 --> 0:06:21.290 I'll just naturally drift towards, like the really dark crimes like. 0:06:21.290 --> 0:06:23.180 And I do feel like in the last few years, 0:06:23.180 --> 0:06:25.910 there's been like a kind of, like big shift in 0:06:25.910 --> 0:06:28.279 the level of quality. Like, I don't know why. Maybe 0:06:28.279 --> 0:06:29.300 this is just in my own head, but I feel 0:06:29.300 --> 0:06:32.510 like Mare of Easttown was one that, like, really like 0:06:32.510 --> 0:06:34.640 people got buzzed about it in a way that often 0:06:34.640 --> 0:06:37.400 these genre shows like Don't Demand. And I think, you know, 0:06:37.400 --> 0:06:39.080 obviously it had Kate Winslet and it was like really 0:06:39.080 --> 0:06:41.450 dark and gritty and stuff. And like that to me 0:06:41.450 --> 0:06:45.260 is the perfect type of crime show. And yeah, I guess, 0:06:45.260 --> 0:06:47.539 like since then I've found myself on a drifting towards 0:06:47.540 --> 0:06:50.420 more and more of those, like really, I don't know, 0:06:50.420 --> 0:06:53.510 I do like to be like disturbed when viewing. I 0:06:53.510 --> 0:06:55.190 think it's like a comfort thing. In a weird way. 0:06:55.190 --> 0:06:56.330 This is the same thing I have. Like I have 0:06:56.330 --> 0:06:57.799 a discussion with my friends all the time. Whenever I'm 0:06:57.800 --> 0:07:00.740 like quite hungover. I like watching horror films because it's like, 0:07:00.740 --> 0:07:03.620 maybe it's the the forced, like emotion. And so I 0:07:03.620 --> 0:07:05.930 think it's the same kind of appeal when I go 0:07:05.930 --> 0:07:07.460 to look for like a true crime show or just 0:07:07.460 --> 0:07:08.539 a crime show in general. 0:07:08.540 --> 0:07:10.370 And many people would say that the BBC kind of 0:07:10.370 --> 0:07:15.320 pioneered the classic crime drama with detectives that you follow 0:07:15.320 --> 0:07:18.260 for series after series. I quite like those ones. Like 0:07:18.260 --> 0:07:22.640 I recently discovered Shetland and watched all seven series, and 0:07:22.640 --> 0:07:25.880 there's something so comforting in the formula of it. You 0:07:25.880 --> 0:07:28.220 kind of put it on nice landscape shots. You know 0:07:28.220 --> 0:07:30.290 what you're getting. It's not too surprising. It's not too 0:07:30.290 --> 0:07:32.930 hard to follow. Um, Meg, do you like those kind 0:07:32.930 --> 0:07:35.690 of classic BBC crime dramas? 0:07:36.290 --> 0:07:39.440 I've never got into those, really. I mean, I know 0:07:39.440 --> 0:07:43.550 there's always a channel on TV pumping, just like non-stop 0:07:43.850 --> 0:07:48.140 summer murder mysteries of some British description. Um, I never 0:07:48.140 --> 0:07:50.690 got into those, but I feel like over the past 0:07:50.690 --> 0:07:52.880 little while, there's such a deviation in how we talk 0:07:52.880 --> 0:07:56.120 about these crime shows because like you said, there's like 0:07:56.120 --> 0:07:59.810 these prestige offerings. There's Kate Winslet doing Mare of Easttown. 0:07:59.810 --> 0:08:01.670 And then on the other hand, Netflix are just like 0:08:01.670 --> 0:08:07.130 slapping out one every week of kind of increasingly disturbing content. 0:08:07.130 --> 0:08:11.300 I mean, I watched that, um, Dahmer show. It was 0:08:11.300 --> 0:08:13.580 like the show with ten names. It's like monster, Jeffrey 0:08:13.610 --> 0:08:17.600 Dahmer Story's Jeffrey Dahmer Chronicle. But that was, um, really 0:08:17.600 --> 0:08:19.640 off putting. And I feel like in the past few years, 0:08:19.640 --> 0:08:24.260 I've really leaned away from anything that's actually based on 0:08:24.260 --> 0:08:28.370 true stories. Um, just because there's such a hunger with 0:08:28.370 --> 0:08:30.650 these big streaming companies, especially to juice them for all 0:08:30.650 --> 0:08:35.330 they're worth. And, um, that made me a little tentative, actually, 0:08:35.330 --> 0:08:37.010 for one of the shows that was coming out at 0:08:37.010 --> 0:08:38.630 the moment, which we're going to talk about. 0:08:38.630 --> 0:08:40.609 Yes. And we'll get to Under the Bridge, which is 0:08:40.610 --> 0:08:44.240 based on a real life story soon. And it's interesting 0:08:44.240 --> 0:08:46.610 what you were saying, Meg, because the rise of the 0:08:46.610 --> 0:08:50.420 crime drama and the true crime drama has happened parallel 0:08:50.420 --> 0:08:53.060 also to the rise of the true crime documentary, both 0:08:53.059 --> 0:08:56.059 on screen and when it comes to podcasts, shows like 0:08:56.059 --> 0:09:00.349 The Staircase, which really kind of capitalized on that appetite 0:09:00.350 --> 0:09:04.820 for true crime. Thomas, why do you think people love 0:09:04.820 --> 0:09:07.550 watching crime? You hinted that for some reason you find 0:09:07.550 --> 0:09:11.030 it quite cathartic to watch people being brutally killed on television. 0:09:11.750 --> 0:09:13.670 Okay, you've stitched me up there now, I think. I mean, 0:09:13.670 --> 0:09:16.100 I do think in a way that, well, the format 0:09:16.100 --> 0:09:18.350 is like, in a strange way, comforting because it's always like, 0:09:18.350 --> 0:09:21.439 you know, classic story structure of like beginning, middle, end. 0:09:21.440 --> 0:09:24.230 There's like good guys, bad guys. It's like familiar to us. 0:09:24.230 --> 0:09:26.900 And so that is appealing in a way. But I mean, 0:09:26.900 --> 0:09:28.550 I don't know if you've heard of a little thing 0:09:28.550 --> 0:09:31.250 called In Cold Blood by Truman Capote. No. But like, 0:09:31.250 --> 0:09:34.550 you know, the genre is obviously, like, really old. Um, 0:09:34.550 --> 0:09:37.670 as as we know we've discussed this previously, but I 0:09:37.670 --> 0:09:39.770 feel like crime as a genre used to be, like, 0:09:39.770 --> 0:09:41.600 especially even in Capote's day, it was like a bit 0:09:41.600 --> 0:09:44.030 low brow and stuff, whereas that has really shifted. And 0:09:44.030 --> 0:09:46.280 we've been talking about like the popularity of like crime 0:09:46.280 --> 0:09:49.220 or true crime for like years now. But I think 0:09:49.220 --> 0:09:53.030 especially in this era of like, you know, the armchair 0:09:53.030 --> 0:09:55.160 detective thing that we talk about so much, like there 0:09:55.160 --> 0:09:57.500 is that element of like, people love to, you know, 0:09:57.500 --> 0:09:59.839 the rise of, like, serial and making a murderer like 0:09:59.840 --> 0:10:02.600 that thing of being involved in the story in real 0:10:02.600 --> 0:10:04.370 time as, like a big part of, I think, the 0:10:04.370 --> 0:10:06.970 current obsession with true crime. And then. I guess the 0:10:06.970 --> 0:10:09.670 fact that it is like always that voyeuristic thing of like, oh, 0:10:10.390 --> 0:10:14.740 getting to like, see the icky parts of real life is, 0:10:14.740 --> 0:10:17.380 is appealing. Like it's just human nature. I think we 0:10:17.380 --> 0:10:19.480 do like to look at that kind of car crash 0:10:19.480 --> 0:10:21.490 effect where you like, can't look away. And I think 0:10:21.490 --> 0:10:24.640 all of that stuff has been like, true forever. But 0:10:24.640 --> 0:10:27.069 now in this era of streaming, it's like, you know, 0:10:27.070 --> 0:10:29.589 they're just like constantly like, I think both of these 0:10:29.590 --> 0:10:31.270 shows we're going to talk about today, Under the Bridge 0:10:31.270 --> 0:10:33.729 and Presumed Innocent are based on books like, it's like 0:10:33.730 --> 0:10:36.940 all the streamers have realized there's so much like, material 0:10:36.940 --> 0:10:39.520 existing now that they can, you know, adapt and stuff. 0:10:39.520 --> 0:10:42.370 And so it's really like it's all come together to this, 0:10:42.370 --> 0:10:44.650 like perfect marriage of, like, all this stuff exists. We're 0:10:44.650 --> 0:10:47.050 already kind of conditioned to be interested in it. And 0:10:47.050 --> 0:10:49.270 now it's just like, how much can you handle? Yeah. 0:10:49.270 --> 0:10:50.949 And Meg, you hinted at kind of you feel a 0:10:50.950 --> 0:10:54.790 bit of discomfort about kind of that, that the rise 0:10:54.790 --> 0:10:57.400 of this genre and how readily we are to consume 0:10:57.400 --> 0:11:00.040 it and make it. And, you know, when things, when 0:11:00.040 --> 0:11:03.189 industries do see a big boom and true crime documentaries 0:11:03.190 --> 0:11:05.140 and true crime is one of those, it's kind of 0:11:05.140 --> 0:11:08.740 churned out so fast and people are wanting to capitalize 0:11:08.740 --> 0:11:12.550 on the interest so much that sometimes the ethics of 0:11:12.550 --> 0:11:15.010 it aren't given time to be considered. So you see 0:11:15.040 --> 0:11:19.359 documentary makers making shows about people without really kind of 0:11:19.360 --> 0:11:23.200 giving moral consideration to what they're doing. When did you 0:11:23.200 --> 0:11:25.300 kind of start to feel a bit icky about some 0:11:25.300 --> 0:11:28.000 of these crime shows, particularly the ones based on real life? 0:11:28.000 --> 0:11:30.790 Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I think to pinpoint 0:11:30.790 --> 0:11:34.000 a moment, I think something happened in 2014 that collectively 0:11:34.000 --> 0:11:37.720 broke our brains around that first season of serial. Um, 0:11:37.720 --> 0:11:42.370 we all became obsessed with Sarah Koenig and Adnan Saeed. And, 0:11:42.850 --> 0:11:46.090 you know, that was the first kind of popular moment, 0:11:46.090 --> 0:11:49.270 I think, where everyone was hitting Reddit, doing their own 0:11:49.270 --> 0:11:52.359 kind of investigations into something that this professional journalist was 0:11:52.360 --> 0:11:56.170 already looking into. And from there it kind of spiraled 0:11:56.170 --> 0:11:57.910 out of control. Then we got, you know, the making 0:11:57.910 --> 0:12:00.730 a murderer, we got the jinx, we got the staircase, 0:12:00.730 --> 0:12:03.670 we got all these run ons that, you know, are 0:12:03.670 --> 0:12:05.890 great objects in their own right and really interesting and 0:12:05.890 --> 0:12:09.430 worthwhile investigations in many ways, but at the same time 0:12:09.429 --> 0:12:12.940 spiraled into this online chaos, which I was very much 0:12:12.940 --> 0:12:15.250 a part of. You know, I really enjoyed that as 0:12:15.250 --> 0:12:18.340 a moment. But as the years wear on, we're past 0:12:18.340 --> 0:12:22.150 a decade since that first came out. Now it's just tiring. 0:12:22.150 --> 0:12:26.140 I think the idea of true crime being this participatory 0:12:26.140 --> 0:12:29.110 sport is just, you know, there's good ways to do 0:12:29.110 --> 0:12:31.660 it and bad, and it's an ethical quagmire all the time. 0:12:31.660 --> 0:12:33.730 But I'm just tired of it, frankly. Yeah. 0:12:33.730 --> 0:12:35.350 And we saw it all come to a head, of course, 0:12:35.350 --> 0:12:38.290 with baby reindeer, which was kind of the extreme of 0:12:38.290 --> 0:12:42.190 that armchair detective. Um, but you were talking about journalists 0:12:42.190 --> 0:12:45.910 being involved in, in these crime stories, and he. 0:12:45.910 --> 0:12:46.540 Was a journalist. 0:12:46.540 --> 0:12:52.030 Nick Cafferty, um, of course, was very involved in Cold Blood, 0:12:52.030 --> 0:12:54.580 and it's very much a part of that story. And 0:12:54.580 --> 0:12:58.450 in Under the Bridge, uh, as well, there's a journalist character. 0:12:58.450 --> 0:13:00.790 So why don't we move on to talking about that one? 0:13:01.330 --> 0:13:02.890 There's danger everywhere. 0:13:07.150 --> 0:13:11.020 But danger had never looked quite like this before. 0:13:13.340 --> 0:13:14.809 This girl, Reena Virk. 0:13:16.040 --> 0:13:20.630 She's been missing for three days. That night I saw something. 0:13:21.650 --> 0:13:22.850 What happened under the bridge? 0:13:24.150 --> 0:13:26.400 It's an eight part mini series which is now on 0:13:26.400 --> 0:13:29.160 Disney via Hulu, and it's about the real life murder 0:13:29.160 --> 0:13:31.350 of 14 year old Reena Virk by a group of 0:13:31.350 --> 0:13:35.730 teenagers in British Columbia, Canada, in 1997. It's based on 0:13:35.730 --> 0:13:39.990 the 2005 book of the same name by journalist Rebecca Godfrey, 0:13:39.990 --> 0:13:42.719 who in this series is played by Riley Keough, who 0:13:42.720 --> 0:13:46.020 is also an EP on the show. She returns to 0:13:46.020 --> 0:13:48.510 her home in Victoria to work on a book, but 0:13:48.510 --> 0:13:51.930 finds herself, like Truman, part of the story. When the 0:13:51.929 --> 0:13:57.030 body of a Indian-canadian teen, Reena, is discovered. She's played 0:13:57.030 --> 0:14:01.200 by Ritika Gupta, and the focus turns on a group 0:14:01.200 --> 0:14:05.730 of teenagers Josephine Bell, played by Chloe Guidry, Warren Glatkowski, 0:14:05.730 --> 0:14:08.849 played by Javon Wanna Walton, and Kelly Ellard, played by 0:14:08.850 --> 0:14:13.709 Izzy G. Lily Gladstone plays Detective Kam Benchland, who has 0:14:13.710 --> 0:14:18.390 a complicated relationship with Rebecca. Meg, what did you make 0:14:18.390 --> 0:14:20.220 of Under the Bridge? Did you like watching it? 0:14:21.210 --> 0:14:23.880 Yeah, I was pretty skeptical going in for these same reasons. 0:14:23.880 --> 0:14:27.720 I'm not super into the true stories these days. I'm 0:14:27.720 --> 0:14:29.760 a bit skeptical of these shows, which are always based 0:14:29.760 --> 0:14:32.850 around a dead girl in a small town. The mystery 0:14:32.850 --> 0:14:37.350 surrounding it. Um, but I was pleasantly surprised, I think 0:14:37.350 --> 0:14:40.830 just because of the the depth of the story, I 0:14:40.830 --> 0:14:44.400 suppose there was real compassion for Rena and her family, 0:14:44.400 --> 0:14:46.680 and she gets a lot more screen time than most 0:14:46.680 --> 0:14:48.690 victims do when they kind of dispersed. Of in the 0:14:48.690 --> 0:14:52.230 opening EP. Um, her story is a really interesting one. 0:14:52.230 --> 0:14:54.960 You know, growing up in this small Canadian town from 0:14:54.960 --> 0:14:57.780 an Indian family, her mother is a strict Jehovah's Witness, 0:14:57.780 --> 0:15:01.620 puts her in a pretty tough position with these, you know, 0:15:01.620 --> 0:15:05.520 tough girls of the 90s. Um, I thought particularly the 0:15:05.520 --> 0:15:10.950 dynamic of girls kind of young girl violence on young 0:15:10.950 --> 0:15:13.109 girls is an interesting one. Usually when it's a dead 0:15:13.110 --> 0:15:14.640 girl in a small town, it's like, which of these 0:15:14.640 --> 0:15:18.600 12 men did it? They all have reasons. Whereas now 0:15:18.600 --> 0:15:21.630 it's much more about like, we kind of know who 0:15:21.630 --> 0:15:24.780 the culprits are. But why would that happen? How could 0:15:24.780 --> 0:15:27.480 it happen? What does this particular type of violence that 0:15:27.480 --> 0:15:29.250 young girls inflict on each other and why? I found 0:15:29.250 --> 0:15:31.800 that really interesting. There's a few caveats there. I found 0:15:31.800 --> 0:15:34.710 Riley Keoughs character a bit strange. And, you know, I've 0:15:34.710 --> 0:15:36.600 seen three episodes at this point, and I don't fully 0:15:36.600 --> 0:15:39.990 understand her backstory and some of her motivations, but all 0:15:39.990 --> 0:15:41.280 in all, I'm having a good time. 0:15:41.280 --> 0:15:43.530 And what about you, Thomas? I know you've watched it all, 0:15:43.530 --> 0:15:45.600 and you were you were kind of hyping this up 0:15:45.600 --> 0:15:47.460 before it got to Australia, because it had quite a 0:15:47.460 --> 0:15:50.700 prominent release overseas before it landed on Disney here. Yeah. 0:15:51.060 --> 0:15:53.820 Did it live up to your expectations? Yeah, I think so. 0:15:53.820 --> 0:15:56.220 I actually weirdly like didn't realize it was a true 0:15:56.250 --> 0:15:57.450 story going into it. 0:15:57.540 --> 0:15:59.880 Um, even though it says at the start of every 0:15:59.880 --> 0:16:03.300 episode this is based on a true story. Yeah. 0:16:04.080 --> 0:16:07.200 This is like a indictment of my, like, short attention span. 0:16:07.290 --> 0:16:09.450 It's okay. Maybe you thought it was a Fargo situation. Exactly. 0:16:09.900 --> 0:16:12.780 You can never tell anymore. Uh, yeah. I think it's 0:16:12.780 --> 0:16:15.030 like it's funny talking about these two, like, Presumed Innocent, 0:16:15.030 --> 0:16:19.020 which obviously get onto in such close succession. I feel 0:16:19.020 --> 0:16:22.470 like I really enjoyed this, but it probably felt more 0:16:22.470 --> 0:16:26.070 like a show that kind of, on the surface, ticked 0:16:26.070 --> 0:16:29.220 all the boxes of like what constitutes a good, you know, 0:16:29.220 --> 0:16:31.590 true crime show these days. Like it had all the 0:16:31.590 --> 0:16:33.960 elements in place. But I think like by the end 0:16:33.960 --> 0:16:36.240 of it I was just a little bit like, ah, 0:16:36.240 --> 0:16:40.590 it it's a slightly unsatisfying, I think, um, even though 0:16:40.590 --> 0:16:43.170 it did feel like it had the framework to be 0:16:43.170 --> 0:16:45.630 like a really good show. I thought Riley Keough was good, 0:16:45.630 --> 0:16:48.090 and I was especially interested, I think, in Lily Gladstone, 0:16:48.090 --> 0:16:51.360 because she's had this massive year, you know, she basically 0:16:51.360 --> 0:16:53.070 lots of people thought she was like robbed for an Oscar. 0:16:53.070 --> 0:16:54.720 It was like a breakout year. And I always find 0:16:54.720 --> 0:16:56.940 it interesting to see, like what someone like that does next. 0:16:56.940 --> 0:17:00.090 I thought this was like a funny project for her, like, 0:17:00.090 --> 0:17:02.010 because I don't think you know her character. They have 0:17:02.010 --> 0:17:04.679 an interesting relationship. Her character is good, but it was 0:17:04.680 --> 0:17:09.030 a strange one I didn't like quite understand why she 0:17:09.030 --> 0:17:10.800 would decide to do like this particular TV show where 0:17:10.800 --> 0:17:13.830 she was kind of like third lead, really, like after 0:17:13.830 --> 0:17:16.739 Rina and Riley, Kira's character. But yeah, I guess like 0:17:16.740 --> 0:17:19.200 generally I had an interesting time and I do think 0:17:19.200 --> 0:17:21.870 there were, you know, like you said, Meg, the way 0:17:21.869 --> 0:17:24.419 that crime specifically was treated, like at first you're like, 0:17:24.420 --> 0:17:26.159 oh God, here we go again, like a brutal murder. 0:17:26.160 --> 0:17:28.440 But then it does kind of like delve into more 0:17:28.440 --> 0:17:30.630 and especially that's probably my favorite part, I think, like 0:17:30.630 --> 0:17:33.750 learning about the, you know, the three girls who, uh, 0:17:33.750 --> 0:17:36.780 kind of in the midst of it, um, and you know, 0:17:36.780 --> 0:17:39.660 that they're obviously from impoverished backgrounds and like, their friendship, 0:17:39.660 --> 0:17:42.600 I thought was like really at times hard but interesting 0:17:42.630 --> 0:17:46.110 to watch because, you know, like, they're really up against 0:17:46.109 --> 0:17:47.550 it and they're really awful to each other. But then 0:17:47.550 --> 0:17:49.470 there are like moments of tenderness. So that was really interesting. 0:17:49.470 --> 0:17:51.330 But yeah, I think a little bit by the end 0:17:51.330 --> 0:17:53.970 I was like, okay, it felt paint by numbers. 0:17:54.090 --> 0:17:57.210 Yeah. And I think as you're hinting at, there's a 0:17:57.210 --> 0:18:01.080 lot going on in this show. There's a journalist character 0:18:01.080 --> 0:18:04.080 that's the Riley Keefe character, there's the detective cam. They've 0:18:04.080 --> 0:18:07.200 got a relationship going on. There's flashbacks to the past. 0:18:07.200 --> 0:18:11.340 There are troubled youth. There's elements of race that's coming 0:18:11.340 --> 0:18:15.480 into this to, um, I almost thought it was trying 0:18:15.480 --> 0:18:18.690 to do too much and tick too many boxes. Um, 0:18:18.810 --> 0:18:22.080 I know the directors and makers have spoken about how 0:18:22.080 --> 0:18:24.840 they wanted to approach the crime with radical empathy, giving 0:18:24.840 --> 0:18:28.230 it given it is based on a real story. But 0:18:28.230 --> 0:18:30.750 I did feel that maybe it held them back from 0:18:30.750 --> 0:18:33.840 going as into some of these dynamics as they would have, 0:18:33.840 --> 0:18:35.790 and they kind of skimmed the surface of a lot 0:18:35.790 --> 0:18:40.020 of these issues, kind of issues of socioeconomic backgrounds, issues 0:18:40.020 --> 0:18:42.870 of race. They kind of glided along the surface. And 0:18:42.869 --> 0:18:46.139 to me, it almost felt a bit bland, and maybe 0:18:46.140 --> 0:18:48.480 it could have gone more in depth on some of 0:18:48.480 --> 0:18:50.910 these things. Why don't we talk about it is set 0:18:50.910 --> 0:18:53.220 in the 90s and the 90s. Element is actually quite 0:18:53.220 --> 0:18:56.670 a big part of this show in particular. Um, Biggs. 0:18:57.390 --> 0:18:59.489 I was waiting for you. You're gonna go biggie or 0:18:59.490 --> 0:19:00.510 you would spell it out. I knew you. 0:19:00.510 --> 0:19:03.660 Would look at me for this 1997 opus, Life After Death, 0:19:03.660 --> 0:19:06.389 which is a huge part of the show. How well, Meg, 0:19:06.390 --> 0:19:08.250 did you enjoy that setting of the 90s and how 0:19:08.250 --> 0:19:10.710 well do you think they captured that time? 0:19:10.710 --> 0:19:14.040 Yeah, I mean, look, I was six and 1997, so 0:19:14.040 --> 0:19:16.919 my perception of the moment is probably a little different 0:19:16.920 --> 0:19:20.430 to some other people, but I think that they captured the. 0:19:20.580 --> 0:19:23.189 You're really well, and I think that specific point in 0:19:23.190 --> 0:19:26.070 time is a really interesting one to tell this story. 0:19:26.070 --> 0:19:28.290 I mean, it was a time where a lot of 0:19:28.290 --> 0:19:32.010 young girls were reclaiming power in lots of ways. I mean, 0:19:32.010 --> 0:19:35.970 97 is one year after the craft came out, which, 0:19:35.970 --> 0:19:38.459 you know, had teenage girls acting a bit witchy and 0:19:38.460 --> 0:19:41.100 feeling like they had supernatural powers. You saw a scene 0:19:41.100 --> 0:19:43.080 in one of the early episodes the girls are doing, 0:19:43.080 --> 0:19:47.609 like a seance at a party. Um, you know, they 0:19:47.609 --> 0:19:51.210 were feeling like they could have a more masculine style. 0:19:51.210 --> 0:19:53.820 She's got the Steve Madden kind of combat boots. This 0:19:53.820 --> 0:19:57.330 was the era of, like, No Doubt's just a girl. Um, 0:19:57.330 --> 0:19:59.940 you know, 97 is the year that Spiceworld came out. 0:19:59.940 --> 0:20:03.180 These are not Spice World girls. Um, they're much more 0:20:03.180 --> 0:20:06.180 about Tupac and Biggie, but I think it's a really 0:20:06.180 --> 0:20:09.390 great exploration of, you know, what power young women had 0:20:09.390 --> 0:20:12.510 at this time and what whether that power was dispersed 0:20:12.510 --> 0:20:16.379 equally because, as you said, the girls featured are pretty 0:20:16.380 --> 0:20:19.290 disadvantaged in a lot of ways, and feeling a lot 0:20:19.290 --> 0:20:22.740 of their anger comes from that disadvantage, whether that's socioeconomic 0:20:22.740 --> 0:20:27.300 or racial or religious in some respects. And it really 0:20:27.300 --> 0:20:29.790 butts heads against one another. So I felt it was 0:20:29.790 --> 0:20:32.700 such an interesting exploration of who gets what power and why, 0:20:32.700 --> 0:20:34.500 and how do they use it against each other. I mean, 0:20:34.500 --> 0:20:39.090 the white girls in this little gang, the Crip, Crip 0:20:39.090 --> 0:20:43.080 mafia cartel, Chelsea, they, um, they seem pretty keen on 0:20:43.080 --> 0:20:47.010 a particular type of culture that they're weaponizing. Uh, pretty, uh, 0:20:47.010 --> 0:20:51.150 appallingly against the black and non-white people in their group. 0:20:51.150 --> 0:20:54.240 Yeah, that's really well put, because part of the thing 0:20:54.240 --> 0:20:56.910 this show does is walk a really fine line between 0:20:56.910 --> 0:21:01.050 capturing the savagery of the crime, um, that is committed, 0:21:01.050 --> 0:21:04.800 but also placing the perpetrators in the context of their 0:21:05.220 --> 0:21:09.600 troubled lives. Um, do you think it did that successfully, Thomas? 0:21:10.020 --> 0:21:12.119 Uh, yeah, I think so. Just one second. I'm going 0:21:12.119 --> 0:21:13.560 back to the 90s. I did. 0:21:13.560 --> 0:21:14.369 Think your favorite. 0:21:14.369 --> 0:21:19.500 Era, it was nice to see like, people smoking on screen, because. 0:21:20.190 --> 0:21:21.869 That was not what I thought you were gonna say. 0:21:21.869 --> 0:21:22.680 Wow, what a takeaway. 0:21:22.800 --> 0:21:24.990 But Riley here, she TV, she smokes. 0:21:24.990 --> 0:21:26.910 No, but, like, she smokes all the time. And then, like, 0:21:26.910 --> 0:21:30.930 in famously in Mare of Easttown, obviously my favorite crime show, 0:21:31.050 --> 0:21:32.669 She Vapes, which I remember was like one of the 0:21:32.670 --> 0:21:34.949 first times I saw someone vaping, like, on screen in 0:21:34.950 --> 0:21:37.410 like a modern crime drama. And whereas, like, there's so 0:21:37.410 --> 0:21:39.210 much smoking in this show and I know obviously smoking 0:21:39.210 --> 0:21:42.330 is bad, etc., etc. but it felt like it really 0:21:42.330 --> 0:21:44.190 like placed it in the 90s when it was just 0:21:44.190 --> 0:21:46.050 like people did it without thought rather than like a 0:21:46.050 --> 0:21:48.660 fucking BlackBerry ice or whatever. She was just like, you know, 0:21:48.780 --> 0:21:51.660 handing out cigarettes. They were like probably $5 for a packet. 0:21:51.930 --> 0:21:53.610 So I quite enjoyed that. And so. 0:21:53.609 --> 0:21:54.270 Nostalgic. 0:21:54.270 --> 0:21:55.800 Yeah. Also the fact that there was just like, I 0:21:55.800 --> 0:21:58.980 think you take this for granted, but no phones, like. 0:21:58.980 --> 0:21:59.790 Yes, you. 0:21:59.790 --> 0:22:01.920 Know, like Reno at one point runs to a payphone 0:22:01.920 --> 0:22:04.350 at one point. Yeah. But like just that, you know, 0:22:04.350 --> 0:22:06.659 obviously we take it for granted now. But when you 0:22:06.660 --> 0:22:08.700 think about telling a story like this and this is 0:22:08.700 --> 0:22:11.400 something I often think about generally it's so much easier 0:22:11.400 --> 0:22:14.280 to commit a crime in the 90s because, like, it's 0:22:14.280 --> 0:22:15.870 so hard now to get. I mean, I know because 0:22:15.869 --> 0:22:17.910 I've been trying it's so hard to like get away 0:22:17.910 --> 0:22:20.700 with the crime now because everything is like, whereas in 0:22:20.730 --> 0:22:23.580 that era, like even, you know, obviously Reena, like, kind 0:22:23.580 --> 0:22:25.109 of goes missing for all this time and there's like 0:22:25.109 --> 0:22:27.750 a little tiny bit of CCTV, but like, whereas now 0:22:27.750 --> 0:22:29.820 every so much of that would be captured, like you 0:22:29.820 --> 0:22:33.180 can so easily trace back because of technology, whereas back then, 0:22:33.180 --> 0:22:35.040 you know, you were just smoking and in the dark. 0:22:35.040 --> 0:22:36.750 I think that's a good point. And a lot of 0:22:36.750 --> 0:22:40.830 authors and, um, film directors and TV makers are setting 0:22:40.830 --> 0:22:44.670 their shows just slightly before technology really takes hold for 0:22:44.670 --> 0:22:48.000 that very reason, because the logistics of trying to commit 0:22:48.000 --> 0:22:50.609 a crime and solve it when there is internet. Yeah, 0:22:50.730 --> 0:22:53.879 like changes everything. Well, we were talking about, um, we 0:22:53.880 --> 0:22:57.480 were talking about Riley Coffee's character, Rebecca Godfrey, who is 0:22:57.480 --> 0:23:00.060 this journalist who comes back to write her book, and 0:23:00.060 --> 0:23:05.040 then she gets entangled. Really entangled with these children. Thomas, 0:23:05.040 --> 0:23:06.780 have you ever covered a story like that? 0:23:07.619 --> 0:23:12.420 Uh, yes. Actually, uh, no. Look, I've never really done. Sadly. 0:23:12.420 --> 0:23:15.149 I know we'll get on to your crime career, Mel. Uh, 0:23:15.150 --> 0:23:18.090 for the listeners. Spent a lot of time working in 0:23:18.090 --> 0:23:20.280 as a court reporter. She likes to mention it. Probably 0:23:20.280 --> 0:23:21.629 twice a day. I reckon. 0:23:22.020 --> 0:23:24.750 Some of us have to do real journalism here. Uh. 0:23:26.160 --> 0:23:28.500 But. Yes. No. Sadly, I haven't had to go to 0:23:28.500 --> 0:23:30.209 a small town and look at a murder yet. Um, 0:23:30.210 --> 0:23:32.129 perhaps one day. But, yeah, I don't know. Does it 0:23:32.130 --> 0:23:34.050 speak to your time as a court reporter? 0:23:34.050 --> 0:23:37.109 Look, no, not really, because I think and I think 0:23:37.109 --> 0:23:39.750 Riley Keefe is good at this, but her character, which 0:23:39.750 --> 0:23:41.970 is based on the real author of the book, gets 0:23:41.970 --> 0:23:43.800 away with so much in this. And I think she's 0:23:43.800 --> 0:23:47.760 ever held ethically or morally culpable for what she does, 0:23:47.760 --> 0:23:51.119 which is hanging out with teenagers kind of really get 0:23:51.119 --> 0:23:53.190 involved in a police case, and. 0:23:53.730 --> 0:23:55.530 She does acid with a 14 year old boy. 0:23:55.560 --> 0:23:58.800 She drops acid, which I sleeping over with him? Uh, yeah. 0:23:58.920 --> 0:24:04.409 She's sleeping over with him. Um, she's kind of misleading 0:24:04.410 --> 0:24:07.410 the cops, um, influencing the kids to kind of what 0:24:07.410 --> 0:24:11.640 testimony they give. And to me, the show just really 0:24:11.640 --> 0:24:14.640 let her off and didn't really examine the role she 0:24:14.640 --> 0:24:17.010 was playing, which I thought she was completely out of 0:24:17.010 --> 0:24:18.540 line in a lot of the way she did. And 0:24:18.540 --> 0:24:19.860 what was she getting out of this? She was getting 0:24:19.859 --> 0:24:22.199 a book. She was working on. And the show at 0:24:22.200 --> 0:24:24.359 one point shows the New York Times ad for the 0:24:24.359 --> 0:24:26.490 book that's coming out, and you can't help but feel 0:24:26.490 --> 0:24:29.939 that she's capitalizing on this crime so much. But the 0:24:29.940 --> 0:24:32.700 show doesn't really hold her to account for for this. Meg, 0:24:32.700 --> 0:24:33.930 what did you like her character? 0:24:34.350 --> 0:24:37.620 I'm not sure how I was supposed to feel about her, 0:24:37.619 --> 0:24:41.970 because everything that was presented to me, like she seemed 0:24:41.970 --> 0:24:46.050 like a bad writer. Even when she's entering the town, 0:24:46.050 --> 0:24:49.470 she's got this, like, book full of notes saying like, 0:24:49.470 --> 0:24:52.649 it's a terrible story. She's jumping on this thing without 0:24:52.650 --> 0:24:55.949 any real direction or ethical guidance or sense of what 0:24:55.950 --> 0:25:01.020 she's doing. She's ruining this actual like, police case of murder. 0:25:01.020 --> 0:25:04.380 It all seems really critical in a way that it 0:25:04.380 --> 0:25:07.919 didn't ever seem to really like. It felt like I 0:25:07.920 --> 0:25:09.990 was supposed to be rooting for her when she's just, 0:25:09.990 --> 0:25:12.540 you know, making a mess of the situation and for 0:25:12.540 --> 0:25:15.030 pretty poor results. I mean, the stuff that she says 0:25:15.030 --> 0:25:16.950 into her voice recorder that's supposed to be these, like, 0:25:16.950 --> 0:25:20.280 very insightful notes. It's terrible. It's so terrible. 0:25:20.280 --> 0:25:22.140 The whole idea of the voice recorder when she's sitting 0:25:22.140 --> 0:25:24.840 at the cafe speaking to it, I mean, can you 0:25:24.840 --> 0:25:26.400 imagine doing that? I know that. 0:25:26.400 --> 0:25:29.070 That felt like a bit cringe. I thought Riley was 0:25:29.070 --> 0:25:31.050 pretty good, though. I like Riley. I mean, we love 0:25:31.050 --> 0:25:32.160 Elvis's family. 0:25:32.460 --> 0:25:34.920 Yeah, I think she did what she could with a 0:25:34.920 --> 0:25:39.330 script that we love Elvis's family, but I think she 0:25:39.330 --> 0:25:42.300 did what she could with a script that probably made 0:25:42.300 --> 0:25:43.169 her character pretty. 0:25:43.170 --> 0:25:46.139 Two D it kind of feels it feels like what 0:25:46.140 --> 0:25:47.909 you were saying before. I agree that the show is 0:25:47.910 --> 0:25:50.760 really spread thin across a lot of people, and what 0:25:50.760 --> 0:25:53.640 the most interesting part is, is actually these young girls, 0:25:53.640 --> 0:25:55.680 and it needed more time to focus on them. But 0:25:55.680 --> 0:25:57.780 the show was kind of sold by its big stars. 0:25:57.780 --> 0:26:00.000 You've got Lily Gladstone, you've got Riley Keough, so you 0:26:00.000 --> 0:26:02.129 want to make the most of them. But that feels 0:26:02.130 --> 0:26:05.250 really not ideal for the story. That is the most 0:26:05.250 --> 0:26:06.869 interesting in the plot, which I think makes it a 0:26:06.869 --> 0:26:07.590 bit scattered. 0:26:07.590 --> 0:26:10.440 Yeah, totally. And there is this relationship between Riley and 0:26:10.440 --> 0:26:13.320 Lily Thomas. You mentioned that you like seeing Lily Gladstone 0:26:13.320 --> 0:26:16.859 in her first role since, um, killers of the Flower Moon, 0:26:16.859 --> 0:26:19.410 which we probably all think Osman is sitting at home 0:26:19.410 --> 0:26:22.020 watching on repeat right now, as she is really good 0:26:22.020 --> 0:26:24.689 playing Molly, and I think we all agree, deserved to 0:26:24.690 --> 0:26:26.280 win the Oscar for that role, but lost out to 0:26:26.280 --> 0:26:28.350 Emma Stone. I thought she was really good in this. 0:26:28.350 --> 0:26:32.070 I thought again, I think she plays understated really well. 0:26:32.070 --> 0:26:34.500 I think she I think Riley can overact in a 0:26:34.500 --> 0:26:37.290 way with the emotions, but Lily has this pared back 0:26:37.290 --> 0:26:40.320 kind of thing where she can give a lot, but 0:26:40.320 --> 0:26:42.719 not in an obvious way. I really liked her as 0:26:42.720 --> 0:26:45.300 this detective, and I wanted more of her and could 0:26:45.300 --> 0:26:47.400 have almost done with less Riley and cut off some 0:26:47.400 --> 0:26:49.740 of the other issues, and had her as a real 0:26:49.740 --> 0:26:52.350 kind of more of a lead character in this. Did 0:26:52.350 --> 0:26:53.400 you think she did good? 0:26:53.400 --> 0:26:55.020 Yeah, I think no, I think she was good. Like, 0:26:55.020 --> 0:26:58.199 she's obviously a good actress. Um, obviously, in case she's listening. 0:26:58.200 --> 0:27:00.419 Well done, Lily, but no, I think it's more just like, 0:27:00.420 --> 0:27:03.360 I think I'm just personally curious, like, about. I just 0:27:03.359 --> 0:27:05.580 find it interesting about, like, the decision making process for 0:27:05.580 --> 0:27:07.649 someone like Lily Gladstone when you've, like, come off a 0:27:07.650 --> 0:27:10.200 massive movie where also that that movie was, like, really 0:27:10.200 --> 0:27:12.570 about her killers of the Flower Moon. She's like, she 0:27:12.570 --> 0:27:14.430 dominates it. It goes for like seven hours and she's 0:27:14.430 --> 0:27:16.830 like on screen for six hours and 50 minutes, whereas 0:27:16.830 --> 0:27:19.290 then like this, I just found it interesting because it's 0:27:19.290 --> 0:27:22.050 not a really like maybe on on the page she 0:27:22.050 --> 0:27:23.850 was like, this is going to be like a super 0:27:23.850 --> 0:27:26.340 buzzy project. I don't know, like it has got buzz, 0:27:26.340 --> 0:27:28.260 but I don't know if for her it was like 0:27:28.260 --> 0:27:30.480 such a great showcase of her talents, even though she 0:27:30.480 --> 0:27:32.520 is good in it. Um, so I just thought that 0:27:32.520 --> 0:27:34.920 was kind of an interesting, like sideways move for her 0:27:35.040 --> 0:27:37.139 career wise. And I wonder if she's kind of like 0:27:37.140 --> 0:27:39.990 sitting somewhere with her agents being like, hmm, well, like, 0:27:39.990 --> 0:27:42.510 we did that and like, probably like won't rush into another, 0:27:42.510 --> 0:27:45.689 you know, like TV project. But I thought generally, you know, 0:27:45.900 --> 0:27:48.270 they were good together. I actually thought, like, there were 0:27:48.270 --> 0:27:51.570 some things this show did which were at least interesting, like, um, 0:27:51.570 --> 0:27:54.030 you know, there is a obviously we spoke about Rina being, 0:27:54.030 --> 0:27:56.129 you know, like the children of these Indian immigrants and 0:27:56.130 --> 0:27:57.930 Jehovah's Witnesses, and we do get like a kind of 0:27:57.930 --> 0:28:00.420 sandwiched in the middle, like a bottle episode that tells 0:28:00.420 --> 0:28:02.550 the story of her parents meeting. And it's basically a 0:28:02.550 --> 0:28:05.490 complete flashback episode, um, watching her dad, you know, like, 0:28:05.490 --> 0:28:08.640 migrate to Canada and being kind of like, uh, he's 0:28:08.640 --> 0:28:11.280 not a Jehovah's Witness, but he gets like, sucked into, 0:28:11.280 --> 0:28:13.859 you know, the community there. And then he meets Rina's mother, 0:28:13.859 --> 0:28:15.540 and it's like a full flashback episode, which I thought 0:28:15.540 --> 0:28:18.330 was interesting. Like, again, that part of that was like, 0:28:18.330 --> 0:28:20.160 I can see what the show is doing. Like it's 0:28:20.160 --> 0:28:23.280 it's like taking a format that has been done successfully 0:28:23.280 --> 0:28:25.320 elsewhere and just kind of like transplanting it. I don't 0:28:25.320 --> 0:28:27.330 know if it works, but I was like, oh, props 0:28:27.330 --> 0:28:28.590 for trying. Yeah. 0:28:28.590 --> 0:28:31.320 What did you think about Lili Meg? Because in some 0:28:31.320 --> 0:28:34.590 ways this isn't a whodunit, because you do know whodunit 0:28:34.590 --> 0:28:37.020 pretty early on. So the role of the detective is 0:28:37.020 --> 0:28:40.230 a bit of a different one to your conventional crime drama. 0:28:40.230 --> 0:28:42.210 Were you happy with the amount of Lily you got 0:28:42.210 --> 0:28:42.810 in this show? 0:28:42.810 --> 0:28:44.640 Yeah, I suppose it would have been nice to see 0:28:44.640 --> 0:28:47.100 a little more. And I agree that she was a 0:28:47.100 --> 0:28:53.070 stronger character than Riley Keough's journalist. I suppose a comparison 0:28:53.070 --> 0:28:54.900 is Kate Winslet in Mare of Easttown, and that was 0:28:54.900 --> 0:28:57.360 kind of seen her. That was seen as her stepping 0:28:57.360 --> 0:29:00.209 out onto the small screen, having a big role in 0:29:00.210 --> 0:29:03.180 a different way. So it could have been that Lily 0:29:03.180 --> 0:29:04.650 was shooting for that kind of thing. It also could 0:29:04.650 --> 0:29:06.570 have been that she shot this before killers, or at 0:29:06.570 --> 0:29:08.550 the same time as killers, like, yeah, who knows how 0:29:08.550 --> 0:29:10.740 these things work? Um, I don't think it was a 0:29:10.770 --> 0:29:13.170 poor use of her talent, though. I think she does 0:29:13.170 --> 0:29:18.240 this kind of silent stoicism quite well. She's got a 0:29:18.240 --> 0:29:21.800 real sense of righteousness and. Doing the right thing. It 0:29:21.800 --> 0:29:24.650 would be nice to see her in different kinds of roles, 0:29:24.650 --> 0:29:27.290 because obviously those are qualities that are pretty similar to 0:29:27.290 --> 0:29:30.140 her character in killers of the Flower Moon. And I 0:29:30.140 --> 0:29:36.110 think it's often easy to cast this, you know, such 0:29:36.110 --> 0:29:39.380 talented indigenous actress with the same kind of thing over 0:29:39.380 --> 0:29:41.780 and over again, because she does it well. But, you know, 0:29:41.780 --> 0:29:43.550 she's a very talented actress. I'm sure she can do 0:29:43.550 --> 0:29:45.080 loads of different things. It would have been nice to 0:29:45.080 --> 0:29:46.310 see a bit more range as well. 0:29:46.310 --> 0:29:48.200 And did you guys go down the rabbit hole of 0:29:48.200 --> 0:29:50.810 this one into. Because I did find myself on this 0:29:50.810 --> 0:29:54.740 case looking up where the real life killers were at. Um, 0:29:54.740 --> 0:29:57.500 did you guys do the research before you watched it 0:29:57.500 --> 0:29:59.240 or after you watched it? Or have you gone down 0:29:59.240 --> 0:29:59.990 that rabbit hole? 0:29:59.990 --> 0:30:03.020 I have gone down that rabbit hole. Um, obviously, like, 0:30:03.020 --> 0:30:05.690 you know, an official spoiler alert for anyone listening who 0:30:05.690 --> 0:30:08.090 is in the middle of watching the show, but particularly 0:30:08.090 --> 0:30:11.959 the kind of one the main young guy in it, 0:30:11.990 --> 0:30:15.020 Warren Gorlitsky, who I think the actors from euphoria, um, 0:30:15.020 --> 0:30:17.630 his character kind of like looking at he had a 0:30:17.630 --> 0:30:21.700 really interesting, like post crime journey. Um, in terms of 0:30:21.700 --> 0:30:24.580 becoming like an advocate for justice. He became quite close 0:30:24.580 --> 0:30:27.460 with Marina Burke's family. Um, and that's, you know, it 0:30:27.460 --> 0:30:29.260 was interesting. And then also, I watched like a I 0:30:29.260 --> 0:30:32.320 must have been like, I don't know, today USA interview 0:30:32.320 --> 0:30:36.370 with Joe. Um, and she, she is kind of exactly 0:30:36.370 --> 0:30:38.290 what you would imagine her to be. But yeah, I 0:30:38.290 --> 0:30:40.270 guess and you know, back to, I guess, the original 0:30:40.270 --> 0:30:42.730 point of what is the appeal of these types of 0:30:42.730 --> 0:30:45.430 projects that also I think is like big for me, 0:30:45.430 --> 0:30:49.420 getting to do the post show like Wikipedia and Google 0:30:49.420 --> 0:30:51.790 until you like, read every single piece of like information 0:30:51.790 --> 0:30:53.530 out there about what happened to these people. I do 0:30:53.530 --> 0:30:55.090 think that's like always fun. 0:30:55.270 --> 0:30:57.670 Yeah, it kind of troubled me a bit. These kids 0:30:57.670 --> 0:31:00.760 were so young. As the show makes a real point 0:31:00.760 --> 0:31:04.810 of expressing when when this incident happened, that then to 0:31:04.810 --> 0:31:08.800 fictionalize it. You do wonder about the real life consequences 0:31:08.800 --> 0:31:11.590 on their life going forward. I mean, we have seen 0:31:11.590 --> 0:31:14.410 how some people like Anna Delphi, of course, has capitalized 0:31:14.410 --> 0:31:17.080 on the fame that a Netflix series did, but hers 0:31:17.080 --> 0:31:19.600 was obviously a very different case, and people had a 0:31:19.600 --> 0:31:24.100 different relationship to what she did to to these kids. Um, Meg, 0:31:24.100 --> 0:31:26.050 I know earlier you were saying that was part of 0:31:26.050 --> 0:31:29.590 your concern about these shows that are based on real events. 0:31:29.590 --> 0:31:31.690 Have you gone and done all your research on on 0:31:31.690 --> 0:31:33.310 what happened to the real characters? 0:31:33.940 --> 0:31:35.770 Um, I wouldn't say I've gone and done my research. 0:31:35.770 --> 0:31:38.830 I've done just enough research to have this conversation because 0:31:38.830 --> 0:31:41.410 I only watched the first three episodes, which don't really 0:31:41.410 --> 0:31:45.580 give you a full understanding of whodunit. Exactly. Um, so 0:31:45.580 --> 0:31:48.970 I know the outlines of what happened, but not, you know, 0:31:48.970 --> 0:31:51.940 the full characterizations or interviews they did after or their 0:31:51.940 --> 0:31:53.170 whole life. Are you going to keep. 0:31:53.170 --> 0:31:53.920 Going with it? 0:31:54.520 --> 0:31:57.880 Yeah, I think I will. Um, yeah, I definitely will. 0:31:57.880 --> 0:31:59.740 I don't know if I'll then do all the research, 0:31:59.740 --> 0:32:02.950 but I think it's a worthwhile show to jump into 0:32:02.950 --> 0:32:03.790 and see all the way through. 0:32:03.790 --> 0:32:07.060 Yeah. Good mix. After you've watched like 15 episodes of Taskmaster. 0:32:07.120 --> 0:32:09.550 Yeah, maybe. The comparison is quite harsh for me as well. 0:32:09.550 --> 0:32:11.890 I'm like, what a show. Prestige television. 0:32:20.140 --> 0:32:22.960 From a real life story to a fictional one. Let's 0:32:22.960 --> 0:32:24.850 move on to Presumed Innocent. 0:32:25.660 --> 0:32:27.100 I just want to make sure that we have everything 0:32:27.100 --> 0:32:28.030 exactly right. 0:32:28.210 --> 0:32:29.260 Let's get started. 0:32:29.680 --> 0:32:33.520 You aware that Carolyn Palamas was murdered? When was the 0:32:33.520 --> 0:32:35.080 last time you were in Carolyn's apartment? 0:32:35.530 --> 0:32:38.590 Uh, we had cases together. Sometimes we would work after 0:32:38.590 --> 0:32:39.730 hours at her apartment. 0:32:40.420 --> 0:32:43.900 Your fingerprints were found in her bedroom. Were you and 0:32:43.900 --> 0:32:47.980 Karolina romantically involved? 0:32:53.070 --> 0:32:54.180 My suspect. 0:32:54.870 --> 0:32:56.490 Because I did not kill her. 0:32:57.540 --> 0:33:00.180 Three apps are out now on Apple TV. This is 0:33:00.180 --> 0:33:03.720 based on Scott Turlough's best selling 1986 legal whodunit of 0:33:03.720 --> 0:33:06.270 the same name, which has already been adapted for screen 0:33:06.270 --> 0:33:11.790 in 1990. Wow, starring Harrison Ford and our own Greta. Sacha. 0:33:11.820 --> 0:33:14.550 Had you guys seen this movie? I had not seen it. 0:33:14.550 --> 0:33:17.220 So I went into the TV show knowing nothing about 0:33:17.220 --> 0:33:20.459 the plot. But I know the many people adored the film. 0:33:20.610 --> 0:33:21.209 Had you watched it? 0:33:21.210 --> 0:33:24.480 I've never said no. I hadn't seen it. And I'm like, yeah, 0:33:24.480 --> 0:33:27.690 I'm curious because I'm so into this show now. So 0:33:27.690 --> 0:33:29.640 I like don't want any spoilers from anybody. 0:33:29.670 --> 0:33:30.330 What about you, Meg? 0:33:30.360 --> 0:33:33.540 I, I hadn't seen it. I'd heard of it, obviously. 0:33:33.540 --> 0:33:35.640 And I know that, yeah, people really hold it in 0:33:35.640 --> 0:33:38.700 high respect. After I watched the first couple of episodes 0:33:38.700 --> 0:33:42.959 of the TV show, I went and watched the movie. Um, 0:33:42.960 --> 0:33:44.790 I've watched three quarters of the movie and googled the 0:33:44.790 --> 0:33:47.940 last bit of the plot, which is very important. And look, 0:33:47.940 --> 0:33:50.969 I had to go to sleep. I'm sick. But, um, 0:33:50.970 --> 0:33:53.430 it was really interesting to compare the two and compare 0:33:53.430 --> 0:33:56.880 the performances with Jake Gyllenhaal and Harrison Ford, which are 0:33:56.880 --> 0:34:00.120 very different. Compare the story, different treatments of the story, 0:34:00.120 --> 0:34:04.830 particularly its treatment of women, which it is. Um, yeah, 0:34:04.830 --> 0:34:05.730 we can talk about. 0:34:05.730 --> 0:34:08.430 Yes, I would love to. Well, that is really interesting. Um, 0:34:08.430 --> 0:34:11.370 so the miniseries is created by David E Kelley, who 0:34:11.370 --> 0:34:14.219 we know loves legal shows. He was behind Big Little Lies, 0:34:14.219 --> 0:34:17.820 Boston Legal, ally McBeal, my favorite. Um. The miniseries stars 0:34:17.820 --> 0:34:21.420 Jake Gyllenhaal as a prosecutor who becomes the prime suspect 0:34:21.420 --> 0:34:23.640 in the murder of one of his colleagues. Carolyn. There's 0:34:23.640 --> 0:34:27.660 some really great, um, uh, supporting roles here Bill camp 0:34:27.660 --> 0:34:32.129 and Peter Sarsgaard, um, who are in the prosecutor's office, 0:34:32.130 --> 0:34:35.609 Peter Sarsgaard in real life, Jake Gyllenhaal's brother in law. 0:34:35.610 --> 0:34:39.600 So there you go. Fun little fun little addition. Um, Meg, 0:34:39.600 --> 0:34:42.480 what did you make of the show? And having also 0:34:42.480 --> 0:34:46.140 gone back and watched the movie, which one do you prefer? 0:34:46.440 --> 0:34:50.759 Um, I really prefer the TV show a lot. Um, 0:34:50.760 --> 0:34:56.820 it's so juicy and pulpy. You know, sometimes I kind 0:34:56.820 --> 0:35:00.209 of catch myself feeling bad for enjoying it so much. 0:35:00.210 --> 0:35:03.719 There's quite a lot of explicit, leering shots of, you know, 0:35:03.719 --> 0:35:07.950 Carolyn's dead body and these throwback scenes of when they 0:35:07.950 --> 0:35:11.040 were having sex. And it's just like it's made to 0:35:11.040 --> 0:35:13.290 be quite deliberately juicy in that way, but it really 0:35:13.290 --> 0:35:16.980 hooks you as well. Like Jake Gyllenhaal's performance is out 0:35:16.980 --> 0:35:21.239 of control. He is sweating, he is manic. Um, love 0:35:21.239 --> 0:35:24.180 that for him. He's such a good actor when he's 0:35:24.180 --> 0:35:27.419 allowed to just go full crazy, like, I mean, anyone 0:35:27.420 --> 0:35:29.580 who's seen him in that role in October knows just 0:35:29.580 --> 0:35:33.959 how crazy he can go. Um, I loved that. It's just. Yeah, 0:35:33.960 --> 0:35:36.330 there's great political intrigue with him in the kind of 0:35:36.330 --> 0:35:39.029 district attorney's office, which doesn't sound interesting, but is in 0:35:39.030 --> 0:35:42.839 the context. Um, and I particularly love that this TV 0:35:42.840 --> 0:35:46.800 version allows for a lot more scope of what's happening 0:35:46.800 --> 0:35:50.160 in his home life. So, I mean, he's had this 0:35:50.160 --> 0:35:53.219 affair with his co-worker. She's then died. It goes on 0:35:53.219 --> 0:35:56.669 from there. But in the movie, there's not much scope 0:35:56.670 --> 0:36:00.600 given to his wife to have much direct input on 0:36:00.600 --> 0:36:02.610 how that's affected their home life, or how this ongoing 0:36:02.640 --> 0:36:05.430 court case will kind of explode their lives. And that's 0:36:05.430 --> 0:36:08.100 such a big part of the show and causes so 0:36:08.100 --> 0:36:09.810 much anguish in Gyllenhaal's character. 0:36:09.810 --> 0:36:12.390 Yeah, I've only watched, so there's only three apps out 0:36:12.390 --> 0:36:14.280 at the moment on Apple TV, and they're releasing it 0:36:14.280 --> 0:36:17.490 week by week. I really like this show. I don't 0:36:17.489 --> 0:36:19.500 think it's gonna like, is it the best show that's 0:36:19.500 --> 0:36:21.569 ever made? I don't think so, but it is so 0:36:21.570 --> 0:36:25.800 enjoyable to watch. I think the episodes all have amazing, like, 0:36:25.800 --> 0:36:30.629 cliffhanger notes. I think it's so like polished and sleek. Um, 0:36:30.630 --> 0:36:32.460 it reminds me a bit of anatomy of a scandal. 0:36:32.460 --> 0:36:34.770 It's got a Big Little Lies vibe, like you're in 0:36:34.770 --> 0:36:38.700 the circle of the rich and the powerful here, and 0:36:38.700 --> 0:36:42.360 you're watching how that powers wielded by everyone, um, there's 0:36:42.360 --> 0:36:47.310 personal politics, there's office politics. There's obviously a brutal crime. Um, 0:36:47.310 --> 0:36:49.620 given I haven't watched the movie, I do find, like, 0:36:49.620 --> 0:36:52.650 I don't know which way the show is going to go, 0:36:52.650 --> 0:36:55.049 which is keeping me on the edge of my seat. 0:36:55.050 --> 0:36:56.700 Whereas I feel like if you'd watch the movie and 0:36:56.700 --> 0:36:57.840 you kind of know how it's going to play out, 0:36:57.840 --> 0:37:00.900 you'd have a very different experience watching this. But, um, 0:37:00.900 --> 0:37:04.590 I think it's really a watchable, enjoyable show. Thomas, have 0:37:04.590 --> 0:37:05.550 you binged this? 0:37:05.550 --> 0:37:08.790 Uh, I, I've seen all the episodes that are out. Um, 0:37:09.060 --> 0:37:12.420 the supporting cast is really good and like. Yeah, it's 0:37:12.420 --> 0:37:15.420 like it's a very uncomfortable watch, like made kind of 0:37:15.420 --> 0:37:17.850 touched on it. The family element is such a big 0:37:17.850 --> 0:37:20.219 part of this. Like obviously, you know, this isn't really 0:37:20.219 --> 0:37:22.440 a spoiler, but you know, he's had this explicit affair 0:37:22.440 --> 0:37:24.930 with his colleague and, and we kind of pick up 0:37:24.930 --> 0:37:27.840 in the first episode when his wife there in the 0:37:27.840 --> 0:37:29.460 aftermath of it and they're kind of patching their lives 0:37:29.460 --> 0:37:31.710 back together. And then all of this stuff gets dropped in, 0:37:31.710 --> 0:37:33.660 which makes it very clear that, in fact, you know, 0:37:33.660 --> 0:37:36.330 the affair is not over and has been continuing. And 0:37:36.330 --> 0:37:40.410 and it's almost like that element, too, is so difficult 0:37:40.410 --> 0:37:44.549 to watch because you're watching this guy, he's like almost 0:37:44.550 --> 0:37:46.740 playing whack a mole, trying to like, patch the different 0:37:46.739 --> 0:37:48.900 holes in his life. And then you add into that, 0:37:48.900 --> 0:37:50.969 like when when things start to unfold and he becomes, 0:37:50.969 --> 0:37:53.550 you know, the center of this crime. It is it's 0:37:53.550 --> 0:37:56.280 an anxious watch. Um, which often doesn't sound like a 0:37:56.280 --> 0:37:58.529 fun time, but it still makes for a gripping kind 0:37:58.530 --> 0:38:01.950 of viewing. Yeah, I again, this to me feels like 0:38:01.950 --> 0:38:04.649 a show that is very considered in terms of like, okay, 0:38:04.650 --> 0:38:07.590 what does it take to be a crime drama that 0:38:07.590 --> 0:38:09.750 is going to elevate you above, you know, the rest 0:38:09.750 --> 0:38:11.760 of the many, many crime dramas? And I feel like 0:38:11.760 --> 0:38:14.670 this really has it, like particularly with the politics of 0:38:14.670 --> 0:38:17.969 the DA's office. Again, we join, I guess, the show 0:38:17.969 --> 0:38:20.370 when there's like a political race to be head of 0:38:20.370 --> 0:38:23.219 the Da. And, um, you know, Jake Gyllenhaal's character is 0:38:23.219 --> 0:38:26.730 kind of wedded to the outgoing Da. And so there's 0:38:26.730 --> 0:38:28.529 like a political element there. And yeah, I just feel 0:38:28.530 --> 0:38:31.830 like it's it's very much a well-rounded show. And it is, 0:38:31.830 --> 0:38:35.760 of course like a crime drama. But that's not exactly 0:38:35.760 --> 0:38:37.919 all it's offering, even though, you know, it does get 0:38:37.920 --> 0:38:39.510 very graphic and it. 0:38:39.510 --> 0:38:41.759 Is quite a graphic show. And this is Jake's first 0:38:41.760 --> 0:38:45.989 small screen leading role. I thought he was very good. 0:38:46.080 --> 0:38:49.080 I thought he was. He stole the show in all 0:38:49.080 --> 0:38:52.560 the ways. Um, I, he brings and my heart, of 0:38:52.560 --> 0:38:55.770 course he brings what? Um, he's so good at doing 0:38:55.770 --> 0:38:59.969 that kind of dark, mysterious, broody, kind of slightly unhinged 0:38:59.969 --> 0:39:04.530 character that stole Taylor's scarf, um, from movies. He brings 0:39:04.530 --> 0:39:08.430 that to this role so perfectly. Did. What did you 0:39:08.430 --> 0:39:09.450 make of Jake? Meg? 0:39:09.450 --> 0:39:13.380 Yeah. I thought he was incredible. I mean, he's got that. Yeah, really. 0:39:13.380 --> 0:39:16.890 Manic face is bulging eyes. I love a really beautiful 0:39:16.890 --> 0:39:20.040 pretty boy who's not afraid to be ugly in every way. 0:39:20.040 --> 0:39:22.770 It makes the best viewing. Like this is a man 0:39:22.770 --> 0:39:25.170 who could have just been doing rom coms his entire career, 0:39:25.170 --> 0:39:27.360 but he is doing the weirdest stuff in film. I 0:39:27.360 --> 0:39:29.100 can't wait to see what he does on TV. Yeah, yeah. 0:39:29.100 --> 0:39:33.330 He really does that slightly kinda unhinged thing, so. Well, yeah. 0:39:33.330 --> 0:39:34.890 Although that being said, I don't know if either of 0:39:34.890 --> 0:39:38.010 you guys watch Roadhouse. He's like most recent film, which. 0:39:38.010 --> 0:39:40.020 Was I've been meaning to I've been meaning, oh my God, 0:39:40.050 --> 0:39:40.230 is it. 0:39:40.230 --> 0:39:43.200 Good? It's so bad. Like it's like it's a remake 0:39:43.200 --> 0:39:44.970 of the Patrick Swayze film. It's like. I think it's 0:39:44.969 --> 0:39:47.040 an Amazon film. I watched it mostly because, like, Conor 0:39:47.040 --> 0:39:49.200 McGregor is in it. I was curious to see like 0:39:49.200 --> 0:39:51.420 him acting. It was it was bad as I imagined. 0:39:51.420 --> 0:39:53.430 But Roadhouse again, like, I don't know why I'm so 0:39:53.430 --> 0:39:56.549 obsessed with people's IMDb profiles today, but like, such a 0:39:56.550 --> 0:39:58.890 bad movie. Yeah. It's like, yeah. 0:39:58.890 --> 0:40:00.570 Oh, that's a shame I didn't. I watched that one 0:40:00.570 --> 0:40:03.270 on Netflix where he plays the ambulance responder and it's 0:40:03.270 --> 0:40:06.000 so intense. It's just like an hour of him kind 0:40:06.000 --> 0:40:08.700 of making big eye faces. Um, it was kind of 0:40:08.700 --> 0:40:09.989 quite claustrophobic. 0:40:09.989 --> 0:40:12.000 Yeah. He's actually got, like, a really good body of work. 0:40:12.000 --> 0:40:13.590 Have you guys seen prisoners? Like, that's like one of 0:40:13.590 --> 0:40:14.670 my all time favorite films. 0:40:14.670 --> 0:40:15.660 Zodiac. Yeah. 0:40:15.660 --> 0:40:16.170 Zodiac. 0:40:16.170 --> 0:40:19.560 Great. David Fincher film. Yeah. Um, well, hopefully we'll be 0:40:19.560 --> 0:40:23.129 seeing a lot more of him. Um. You bet. Thomas, 0:40:23.130 --> 0:40:26.460 you kind of mentioned, um, a bit earlier that, you know, 0:40:26.460 --> 0:40:29.339 we're seeing these crime dramas aspire to be more kind 0:40:29.340 --> 0:40:32.940 of like high art, whereas in the 90s and 2000 0:40:32.940 --> 0:40:34.830 and Meg's still watching them, we had the kind of 0:40:34.830 --> 0:40:38.820 CSIS and the Law and Orders and procedural series. Do 0:40:38.820 --> 0:40:42.120 you think that, you know, the kind of talking about 0:40:42.120 --> 0:40:45.570 David E Kelley, the Boston Legal era of crime drama 0:40:45.570 --> 0:40:46.380 is over? 0:40:46.590 --> 0:40:49.469 Well, I guess like yes and no. It's funny because 0:40:49.469 --> 0:40:52.500 David E Kelley, like, he both did like the Boston Legal, 0:40:52.500 --> 0:40:54.390 which is, you know, that kind of I mean, that 0:40:54.390 --> 0:40:57.630 was more of a comedy ish, but that serial show. 0:40:57.630 --> 0:40:59.220 And then he also did Big Little Lies and pretty 0:40:59.219 --> 0:41:01.230 sure he wrote that. So I mean, he's kind of 0:41:01.230 --> 0:41:03.060 got a foot in both camps, but I do think, 0:41:03.060 --> 0:41:06.870 you know, we had last year NCIS Sydney premiered. So like, 0:41:06.870 --> 0:41:09.839 that level still exists. And there are people like, I 0:41:09.840 --> 0:41:10.830 just got back from New York. I don't know if 0:41:10.830 --> 0:41:12.989 you guys know, but, um, like, there, you know, you 0:41:12.989 --> 0:41:14.640 see so many billboards for shows over there and it's 0:41:14.640 --> 0:41:18.089 still like CSI season 5000 or whatever. Like it's still 0:41:18.090 --> 0:41:21.180 kind of going on, but it's just like there has 0:41:21.180 --> 0:41:23.700 been this massive division now where it's like those shows 0:41:23.700 --> 0:41:25.950 exist for some people and whatever, and we'll keep making them. 0:41:25.950 --> 0:41:27.270 And if you want to keep watching them, like they'll 0:41:27.270 --> 0:41:30.779 always be there. But now it is like this kind 0:41:30.780 --> 0:41:32.730 of elevation. It's like we've got the, you know, top 0:41:32.730 --> 0:41:36.150 subscriber tier of crime TV shows. And that's what these, 0:41:36.150 --> 0:41:39.030 I think definitely play into. And I do think that 0:41:39.030 --> 0:41:41.460 that's a format that's been kind of like molded by 0:41:41.460 --> 0:41:44.279 like the mayors of East Sound the night of what 0:41:44.280 --> 0:41:46.799 was the other HBO one rerun, This city or whatever. Like, 0:41:46.800 --> 0:41:49.830 like it's become a genre, like an offshoot of the 0:41:49.830 --> 0:41:52.410 original genre where, you know, you got to have like, 0:41:52.410 --> 0:41:55.560 probably like a really small town. You've got to explore 0:41:55.560 --> 0:41:57.390 the politics of that small town. There's got to be 0:41:57.390 --> 0:42:00.180 like racial and gender issues explored, like it's got it. 0:42:00.180 --> 0:42:01.950 You've got cast members. Yeah. 0:42:01.950 --> 0:42:04.140 And it's like and a similar thing with like, you know, 0:42:04.140 --> 0:42:06.930 we talk about so much how True Detective like redefined 0:42:06.930 --> 0:42:08.850 TV and stuff. I do think all of those have 0:42:08.850 --> 0:42:12.060 kind of come together to like, give us this new 0:42:12.060 --> 0:42:14.520 version of crime drama. And if you really, you know, 0:42:14.520 --> 0:42:16.110 want to get the big names and stuff, you have 0:42:16.110 --> 0:42:18.480 to deliver a product that ticks all those boxes. 0:42:18.480 --> 0:42:21.719 Yeah, yeah, that's a good point. Do you think crime 0:42:21.840 --> 0:42:24.870 is to prestige these days, Meg? Do you miss the 0:42:24.870 --> 0:42:26.700 kind of old school pay? Meg. Yeah. 0:42:27.239 --> 0:42:30.480 Well, it's interesting because shows like, you know, CSI and 0:42:30.480 --> 0:42:33.120 Law and Order, these are still incredibly popular. Like, I 0:42:33.120 --> 0:42:35.760 think the audience numbers would well outweigh these kind of 0:42:35.760 --> 0:42:38.430 prestige offerings. There's a reason they're still getting pumped out 0:42:38.430 --> 0:42:41.760 at such great pace. But I feel like this show 0:42:41.760 --> 0:42:44.460 in particular is such a nice melding of both those worlds, 0:42:44.460 --> 0:42:47.730 because in many ways it is just a legal procedural, 0:42:47.730 --> 0:42:49.500 and I think eventually will be once they're kind of 0:42:49.500 --> 0:42:53.819 in the courtroom deciding the case. And that has that tasty. 0:42:53.960 --> 0:42:56.810 Kind of hokey way of drawing you in that these 0:42:56.810 --> 0:42:58.760 other shows, do you know what's coming? You know, the 0:42:58.760 --> 0:43:02.150 structure of the courtroom drama. But in the other way, 0:43:02.150 --> 0:43:03.770 you know, it is a prestige show and that it's 0:43:03.770 --> 0:43:06.410 got Jake Gyllenhaal's first role. It's got, you know, this 0:43:06.410 --> 0:43:09.410 back story with the text that it's based on, which 0:43:09.410 --> 0:43:11.330 is also big name roles. I mean, Harrison Ford in 0:43:11.330 --> 0:43:14.540 the original, and then even then it does, you know, 0:43:14.540 --> 0:43:16.879 the discourse that surrounds a show like this will have 0:43:16.880 --> 0:43:20.060 those kind of broader social concerns. There's a lot of 0:43:20.060 --> 0:43:23.540 discussion around the different ways they treat women. And, you know, 0:43:23.540 --> 0:43:25.130 this one's not perfect as well. I feel like so 0:43:25.130 --> 0:43:27.109 many of the old shots of Caroline, you see from 0:43:27.110 --> 0:43:30.319 Jake Gyllenhaal's perspective is like a dead wife shot. It's like, oh, 0:43:30.320 --> 0:43:32.930 she's so beautiful and perfect. Like, look at her in 0:43:32.930 --> 0:43:36.410 slow motion in this bar. Yeah. Um, but compared to 0:43:36.410 --> 0:43:40.460 the film, it's so much better. That was very much, um, 0:43:40.460 --> 0:43:45.110 you know, you hear that this, this hard core prosecutors 0:43:45.110 --> 0:43:47.390 being killed, and her boss finds out in the office, 0:43:47.390 --> 0:43:51.620 and he's like a beautiful, sexy gal like that. No way. Um, 0:43:51.620 --> 0:43:55.100 it's like, wow, you knew this woman. You're really shaken up. Um, 0:43:55.100 --> 0:43:58.550 and particularly the way that her relationships are brought up 0:43:58.550 --> 0:44:02.660 in the original film, she, you know, these erotic thrillers 0:44:02.660 --> 0:44:04.850 of the 80s and 90s when any woman had any 0:44:04.850 --> 0:44:07.280 kind of active sexual life, it was like deviant in 0:44:07.280 --> 0:44:11.509 some way and usually ended in violence in some way. 0:44:11.510 --> 0:44:14.240 So Caroline, in the, in the original had a lot 0:44:14.239 --> 0:44:17.360 of sexual partners and that was kind of painted her 0:44:17.360 --> 0:44:19.340 in a particular light. And so when people find out 0:44:19.340 --> 0:44:22.400 about her murder, it's like, well, I suppose that's what happens. 0:44:22.610 --> 0:44:22.880 She had. 0:44:22.880 --> 0:44:23.480 It coming. 0:44:23.480 --> 0:44:26.150 It's really, really bad. Yeah. So at least in this retelling, 0:44:26.150 --> 0:44:29.390 you know, she's a human being, um, she's allowed to 0:44:29.390 --> 0:44:32.810 have sex and not be murdered. Um, it's an interesting 0:44:32.810 --> 0:44:37.940 retelling on that respect. But also, I'd say it's, you know, 0:44:37.940 --> 0:44:40.100 I've heard a lot of people who've read the book 0:44:40.100 --> 0:44:41.960 and seen the film and are now watching the TV 0:44:41.960 --> 0:44:44.600 show and say that it actually has deviations from the 0:44:44.600 --> 0:44:46.730 original texts in some ways, and I don't know all 0:44:46.730 --> 0:44:49.760 of them because I haven't read the book. Um, but. 0:44:50.260 --> 0:44:53.020 I think it's still a really interesting watch if you 0:44:53.020 --> 0:44:55.150 have seen those things, because they're really playing with the 0:44:55.150 --> 0:44:59.020 text and what twists you think are coming and don't come. Um, 0:44:59.320 --> 0:45:02.260 and it may, yeah, it may surprise you. I suppose 0:45:02.260 --> 0:45:04.750 even reviewers in the US who have seen everything but 0:45:04.750 --> 0:45:07.450 the final episode, they don't know, you know, who actually 0:45:07.450 --> 0:45:09.969 did the crime. So we could all be surprised. Yeah. 0:45:09.969 --> 0:45:13.480 That's good. We'll keep you watching. Um, yeah. The even 0:45:13.480 --> 0:45:15.549 I haven't seen the original, but it is a bit 0:45:15.550 --> 0:45:19.660 of a weird representation still of Carolyn, the colleague who 0:45:19.660 --> 0:45:21.819 is dead. There are some quite a lot of graphic 0:45:21.820 --> 0:45:24.939 shots of her body and the violence against her. And 0:45:24.940 --> 0:45:27.520 then there are a lot of kind of flashbacks to 0:45:27.520 --> 0:45:31.390 sex scenes. Um, and then I won't say what it is, 0:45:31.390 --> 0:45:34.989 but Jake makes a discovery about her, which also then 0:45:34.989 --> 0:45:38.529 feeds into a different shaping of her discovery after she's 0:45:38.530 --> 0:45:42.070 dead that affects him, that feeds into the shaping of her, um, 0:45:42.070 --> 0:45:45.130 maybe in a way that is a bit uneasy, um, 0:45:45.130 --> 0:45:47.770 with what they're trying to do with that discovery. But, 0:45:47.770 --> 0:45:49.870 I mean, watching both of these shows under the bridge 0:45:49.870 --> 0:45:52.600 and presumed innocent back to back, obviously, one is a 0:45:52.600 --> 0:45:55.690 true story. One is a fictional. But, you know, it 0:45:55.690 --> 0:45:58.660 is hard to ignore that so many of these shows 0:45:58.660 --> 0:46:03.130 hinge on really awful things happening to women. 0:46:03.160 --> 0:46:06.250 Mhm. Yeah I know it's like it's a, it's a 0:46:06.250 --> 0:46:10.089 strange thing because it's like this kind of self-fulfilling problem 0:46:10.090 --> 0:46:13.540 of the genre that everyone especially nowadays knows is like 0:46:13.810 --> 0:46:16.960 not okay. And yet we can't seem to like break 0:46:16.960 --> 0:46:18.460 the like, you look at so many of these shows 0:46:18.460 --> 0:46:21.460 and it's just like it's always the same thing. Even like, 0:46:21.460 --> 0:46:23.830 you know, thinking about like lots of Australian shows. The 12, 0:46:23.950 --> 0:46:27.010 that was a really horrible crime. Like to a young girl. 0:46:27.010 --> 0:46:29.770 Like it's it's like we we're all so self aware 0:46:29.770 --> 0:46:32.950 that this is the formula and like the pitfalls of 0:46:32.950 --> 0:46:35.650 that formula and yet like consistently a new show will 0:46:35.650 --> 0:46:37.780 come out and it'll be like a young girl missing 0:46:37.780 --> 0:46:39.730 in a small town. Everyone's like, fuck, that looks pretty good. 0:46:39.730 --> 0:46:42.130 I might watch it like, I don't know. It's just like, 0:46:42.280 --> 0:46:45.100 how do you change that hardwiring of the genre? 0:46:45.100 --> 0:46:48.160 Like, yeah, make beyond these two shows. Is it kind 0:46:48.160 --> 0:46:50.710 of lazy plotting or is it also kind of a 0:46:50.710 --> 0:46:54.040 reflection of the world in which violent crimes are more 0:46:54.040 --> 0:46:55.870 likely to be committed against women? 0:46:55.870 --> 0:46:58.120 Yeah, I think that's the difficult truth. That's hard to 0:46:58.120 --> 0:47:01.569 avoid when you're telling these crime stories and particularly true crime, 0:47:01.570 --> 0:47:04.330 in that, you know, it usually is women who are 0:47:04.330 --> 0:47:07.930 subject to this kind of violence, and it's usually from men. Um, 0:47:07.930 --> 0:47:10.390 so that is hard to get away from in many respects. 0:47:10.390 --> 0:47:13.600 I will also shout out deadlock again, though, because that 0:47:13.600 --> 0:47:16.600 is based around, uh, men being murdered in a small 0:47:16.600 --> 0:47:20.739 town in Tasmania. So a fun spin on the genre. 0:47:22.210 --> 0:47:25.509 Yeah. That's, uh. Yeah, that's very true. And I mean, 0:47:25.510 --> 0:47:27.730 I think what is interesting about these shows, as opposed 0:47:27.730 --> 0:47:31.629 to other, other crime series, is that they do, to 0:47:31.630 --> 0:47:34.450 varying levels of success, try to hold space for the 0:47:34.450 --> 0:47:38.170 victims as well rounded characters. So they're not just explicitly 0:47:38.170 --> 0:47:40.000 a way to move the plot forward or to give 0:47:40.000 --> 0:47:42.910 other characters an arc. They do try to hold room 0:47:42.910 --> 0:47:43.540 for them. And I think. 0:47:43.540 --> 0:47:46.300 Especially with Under the Bridge, that even that kind of 0:47:46.300 --> 0:47:49.090 like very meta narrative takes place in the story where, 0:47:49.090 --> 0:47:52.150 like Riley Keoughs character is writing this book and she's 0:47:52.150 --> 0:47:54.669 kind of like more focused on the salacious details. And 0:47:54.670 --> 0:47:57.609 she has these, like, dealings with Rina's family, and that 0:47:57.610 --> 0:48:00.070 kind of then begins to shape her, I guess, like 0:48:00.070 --> 0:48:02.170 consideration of how much weight she needs to actually give 0:48:02.170 --> 0:48:04.030 to the victim. And like, you know, I think that 0:48:04.030 --> 0:48:06.340 that show does a pretty good job of it. But yeah, 0:48:06.340 --> 0:48:08.350 I mean, like you said, it is probably a sad 0:48:08.350 --> 0:48:10.630 reflection of the fact that this is typically how it 0:48:10.630 --> 0:48:13.630 tends to go. And so it's hard to like drift 0:48:13.630 --> 0:48:15.580 away from that source material too much, which is why 0:48:15.580 --> 0:48:18.310 I might just keep watching Vera on ABC, because she's 0:48:18.310 --> 0:48:21.430 got that funny little hat. It's always cute. Like, kind 0:48:21.430 --> 0:48:23.440 of like county crimes. 0:48:23.440 --> 0:48:25.900 You should try Father Brown to nothing like a detective 0:48:25.900 --> 0:48:27.040 in a in a collar. 0:48:27.070 --> 0:48:28.600 I see. I still, I think for me like one 0:48:28.600 --> 0:48:30.790 of the. And lots of people name check this. But 0:48:30.790 --> 0:48:34.180 have you guys seen Broadchurch? Like Broadchurch to me is like, 0:48:34.180 --> 0:48:36.520 you know, that's a great crime show that doesn't feel 0:48:36.520 --> 0:48:39.730 too like, you know, icky. 0:48:39.730 --> 0:48:44.290 But how do British filmmakers and TV makers make murder 0:48:44.290 --> 0:48:46.239 seem so cute? How does that happen? I'm not really 0:48:46.239 --> 0:48:47.410 well-versed in the genre. 0:48:47.410 --> 0:48:49.360 Yeah, I think they don't really. 0:48:49.420 --> 0:48:50.920 Spend a lot of time watching ABC at night. 0:48:51.070 --> 0:48:56.080 They they don't really show a lot of too much 0:48:56.080 --> 0:48:58.660 of the graphicness of the crime. And I think it's 0:48:58.660 --> 0:49:02.350 just the English way they're repressed, kind of their repression. 0:49:02.350 --> 0:49:04.960 They don't really leave room for emotion. You know, they've 0:49:04.960 --> 0:49:08.770 got a job to do and and they get it done. Um, also, 0:49:08.770 --> 0:49:11.230 I think there's something about because there's so many episodes 0:49:11.230 --> 0:49:13.210 in some of those BBC ones that have gone on 0:49:13.210 --> 0:49:15.640 for so many years, like they don't really have to 0:49:15.640 --> 0:49:17.290 give any emotion because, you know, it's going to be 0:49:17.290 --> 0:49:19.630 solved by the end of the episode. And is it. 0:49:19.630 --> 0:49:21.219 Happy Valley, another one that's been going on for like 0:49:21.219 --> 0:49:21.940 500 years? Yeah, that's. 0:49:21.940 --> 0:49:25.690 Actually a really good show. I'm in shock. I can't 0:49:25.690 --> 0:49:29.200 believe I'm here defending British crime. Um, which that does 0:49:29.200 --> 0:49:31.660 kind of bring me. Uh, as I was saying, you 0:49:31.660 --> 0:49:34.750 can go back and watch all of those episodes. Under 0:49:34.750 --> 0:49:37.390 the bridge came out all at once in Australia. Presumed 0:49:37.390 --> 0:49:39.820 innocent coming out. Two episodes to start and then week 0:49:39.820 --> 0:49:43.450 by week. Do you prefer your crime served up to 0:49:43.450 --> 0:49:45.250 you in one sitting, or do you? How do you 0:49:45.250 --> 0:49:46.719 feel about the week by week? 0:49:46.810 --> 0:49:49.930 Uh, no, actually, I think particularly with a presumed innocence. 0:49:50.050 --> 0:49:52.180 Even though I was like really into it. I think 0:49:52.180 --> 0:49:55.900 that suits perfectly a weekly drop. I just like it's 0:49:55.900 --> 0:49:57.729 a bit too much to take in and you can't 0:49:57.730 --> 0:50:00.370 really like. I think the episodes are like close to 0:50:00.370 --> 0:50:03.100 an hour. Um, you probably need to like, marinate on 0:50:03.100 --> 0:50:05.049 it a little bit under the bridge, I thought wasn't 0:50:05.050 --> 0:50:07.810 as like probably like suited. You could just, like, go 0:50:07.810 --> 0:50:09.879 at your own pace. But I think generally with these 0:50:09.880 --> 0:50:12.640 crime shows, it's better to have them like teased out 0:50:12.640 --> 0:50:14.200 week over week. You don't want to be like, it's 0:50:14.200 --> 0:50:14.800 a lot. 0:50:14.800 --> 0:50:18.219 Yeah. I also feel like because Presumed Innocent, the concept 0:50:18.219 --> 0:50:21.520 is quite simple. You don't. It's okay to wait a week. 0:50:21.520 --> 0:50:23.440 Like you're not going to forget. Who was that character? 0:50:23.440 --> 0:50:26.080 What were they doing? What is this plot? Whereas Under 0:50:26.080 --> 0:50:27.940 the Bridge has so much going on that I think 0:50:27.940 --> 0:50:30.820 watching it week by week, you could very easily forget 0:50:30.820 --> 0:50:32.800 where you're up to and lose your way in that 0:50:32.800 --> 0:50:33.520 story and. 0:50:33.520 --> 0:50:35.050 Multiple timelines and stuff as well. 0:50:35.050 --> 0:50:37.360 Yeah, yeah, it becomes a bit more confusing. It is a. 0:50:37.360 --> 0:50:39.129 Bit a shame though, because I mean, you know, I've 0:50:39.130 --> 0:50:40.900 seen three episodes of Under the Bridge now and you've 0:50:40.900 --> 0:50:42.969 seen the full series and you don't get to discuss 0:50:42.969 --> 0:50:45.160 it in the same way. There's not that kind of, 0:50:45.190 --> 0:50:47.319 you know, what do you think is happening here? What 0:50:47.320 --> 0:50:48.760 do you think's happening with this person? Who do you 0:50:48.760 --> 0:50:51.670 think did it? Because everyone's experiencing it at different times, 0:50:51.670 --> 0:50:52.989 which is a bit of a shame. 0:50:52.989 --> 0:50:55.930 Yeah. You kind of miss the watercooler moment. Um, which 0:50:55.930 --> 0:50:59.380 I feel presumed innocent has, particularly if it has for sure. Yeah. 0:50:59.380 --> 0:51:00.940 A generation of those episodes. 0:51:00.940 --> 0:51:02.080 All. Boy, they get you. 0:51:02.080 --> 0:51:07.840 Yeah. Good. All right. Let's move on to impressing our friends. 0:51:07.840 --> 0:51:10.390 Or as you wrote in the script, recommendations for friends, 0:51:10.390 --> 0:51:12.609 even though the segment is called Impress Your Friends every 0:51:12.610 --> 0:51:13.270 single week. 0:51:13.270 --> 0:51:13.989 That's like. 0:51:13.989 --> 0:51:16.210 Um, she's putting her own stamp on it. Okay. Yeah, that's. 0:51:16.210 --> 0:51:18.280 Like a more austere one. Like this. 0:51:18.280 --> 0:51:19.810 Recommendations for friends by Melanie. 0:51:19.810 --> 0:51:22.899 Kimmy. Friends you may have. All right. Recommend to us 0:51:22.900 --> 0:51:23.799 your friends. Thomas. 0:51:24.250 --> 0:51:26.020 Uh, well, my one is a bit of a strange 0:51:26.020 --> 0:51:29.410 one this week. Um, it's actually the new David Sedaris 0:51:29.410 --> 0:51:31.090 longread in the New Yorker. I don't know if you 0:51:31.090 --> 0:51:32.500 guys know, but I was recently in New York. 0:51:32.500 --> 0:51:35.140 You also love David Sedaris. 0:51:35.140 --> 0:51:35.710 I do love I. 0:51:35.710 --> 0:51:37.150 Mean, that's not, like, a weird. 0:51:37.150 --> 0:51:37.750 Thing. 0:51:37.750 --> 0:51:41.650 No, I know, but I think you are, like, a 0:51:41.650 --> 0:51:42.580 true fanboy. 0:51:42.580 --> 0:51:44.650 Yeah, I love Sedaris, and I think, you. 0:51:44.650 --> 0:51:45.460 Know, which I like. 0:51:45.580 --> 0:51:46.960 Meg. Do you like Sedaris? 0:51:47.500 --> 0:51:50.860 I do the idea of you reading, uh, Sedaris article 0:51:50.860 --> 0:51:52.570 in the New Yorker in New York while eating a 0:51:52.570 --> 0:51:55.300 bagel and thinking about your bagel business is extremely funny, but. 0:51:55.300 --> 0:51:56.890 Like, it's like, fucking not far off, to. 0:51:56.890 --> 0:51:59.049 Be honest. Uh, no, but. 0:51:59.050 --> 0:52:02.260 I bought I actually bought a bunch of magazines while 0:52:02.260 --> 0:52:03.279 I was there because I was like, that's kind of 0:52:03.280 --> 0:52:05.109 what you do when you're overseas. I don't buy magazines 0:52:05.110 --> 0:52:07.360 any other times. But I bought, like it's kind of 0:52:07.360 --> 0:52:09.280 a novelty too, because I got like Vanity Fair, The 0:52:09.280 --> 0:52:12.760 New Yorker and, um, some other fucking magazine anyway. 0:52:13.120 --> 0:52:15.220 But like, shout out print media. 0:52:15.820 --> 0:52:18.489 But I just bought it because I was in a bookshop. 0:52:18.489 --> 0:52:20.230 And then I opened it up and I was like, oh, 0:52:20.230 --> 0:52:22.450 there's actually a Sedaris story in here. And he doesn't 0:52:22.450 --> 0:52:24.549 write for them that often anymore. And yes, I do 0:52:24.550 --> 0:52:27.310 really like him. Um, saw him last time he came 0:52:27.310 --> 0:52:29.350 out at the opera house. Did you actually kind of 0:52:29.350 --> 0:52:32.140 a weird show, to be honest. He's he's going drifting 0:52:32.140 --> 0:52:33.850 a little bit into, like, the kind of weird older 0:52:33.850 --> 0:52:38.170 man woke like weird older man. Like, I hate cancel 0:52:38.170 --> 0:52:40.270 culture territory, but that's a story for another day. 0:52:40.600 --> 0:52:41.290 So it's fun. 0:52:41.290 --> 0:52:43.870 Anyway, impress your friends with this David Sedaris longread because 0:52:43.870 --> 0:52:47.020 it actually is really funny. Um, it's called notes on 0:52:47.020 --> 0:52:49.510 a Last Minute Safari, and it's basically as many of 0:52:49.510 --> 0:52:51.640 his stories are. It's just about a trip he and 0:52:51.640 --> 0:52:54.760 his husband, Hugh, took to Kenya a last minute safari. 0:52:54.760 --> 0:52:57.340 And it's very, very funny. He talks about kind of 0:52:57.340 --> 0:52:59.800 the strange dichotomy of being like on these, like, you know, 0:52:59.800 --> 0:53:03.310 made for tourists tours, but then also staying in what 0:53:03.520 --> 0:53:06.339 he calls the most glamorous tent that he's ever been in. 0:53:06.340 --> 0:53:08.830 It's like better than most apartments he's ever owned. So yeah, 0:53:08.830 --> 0:53:11.680 it is classic Sedaris. Very funny, I enjoyed it. Um, 0:53:11.680 --> 0:53:16.600 can recommend specifically eating a bagel while enjoying it in, uh, 0:53:16.600 --> 0:53:17.050 the Lower. 0:53:17.050 --> 0:53:17.740 East Side, a bagel. 0:53:17.739 --> 0:53:19.480 From Thomas Mitchell's new bagel. 0:53:19.480 --> 0:53:19.750 Business. 0:53:19.930 --> 0:53:22.330 Yeah, yeah. Watch this space for the bagel business coming soon. 0:53:22.330 --> 0:53:25.180 Can I ask? I used to be very into David Sedaris. 0:53:25.480 --> 0:53:28.989 And. And did you grow out of it? No. 0:53:29.350 --> 0:53:32.049 But I did. He's very obviously very good at what 0:53:32.050 --> 0:53:34.779 he does. But is he still. I feel like once 0:53:34.780 --> 0:53:37.270 you've read, like, a lot of David Sedaris, you kind 0:53:37.270 --> 0:53:40.600 of get his thing. And I kind of grew out 0:53:40.600 --> 0:53:41.020 of it. 0:53:41.020 --> 0:53:42.700 Oh my God, you're kidding. 0:53:42.969 --> 0:53:44.469 I'm kidding. But, um. 0:53:44.920 --> 0:53:46.960 I mean, you're not kidding his style. 0:53:46.960 --> 0:53:48.460 I mean, I haven't read his stuff for, like, a 0:53:48.460 --> 0:53:50.379 long time. I mean, has he changed his style or 0:53:50.380 --> 0:53:52.000 he's still doing what he does really well? 0:53:52.000 --> 0:53:53.080 Yeah, I think, like. 0:53:53.080 --> 0:53:57.129 I mean, yeah, sadly for my simple tastes, Melanie, uh, I, 0:53:57.130 --> 0:53:59.530 I enjoy what he does. I think he's funny. Like. Yeah, 0:53:59.530 --> 0:54:01.420 I agree, like, I've read I've read all of his books. 0:54:01.420 --> 0:54:02.859 They all give you the same thing. You probably don't 0:54:02.860 --> 0:54:04.240 want to like you can't read them back to back 0:54:04.239 --> 0:54:07.480 to back. But yeah, I think he's a really funny writer. And, um, 0:54:07.480 --> 0:54:09.879 sometimes I just want to have a laugh while I 0:54:09.880 --> 0:54:10.510 am reading. 0:54:10.510 --> 0:54:11.469 Thank you for your recommended. 0:54:11.469 --> 0:54:13.839 For me, for me and the other. Like people who 0:54:13.840 --> 0:54:17.560 like the low hanging fruit, um, read, read, read notes 0:54:17.560 --> 0:54:19.390 on a last minute safari by David Sedaris. 0:54:19.390 --> 0:54:21.190 And then, I don't know, I love the. 0:54:21.190 --> 0:54:23.530 The segment's called Impress Your Friends, and you've only been 0:54:23.530 --> 0:54:24.280 roasted by a. 0:54:24.280 --> 0:54:26.140 Friend. Yeah, exactly. 0:54:26.620 --> 0:54:28.210 Well, that's why we rebranded. 0:54:28.360 --> 0:54:28.690 It as a. 0:54:28.690 --> 0:54:29.739 Recommendation for. 0:54:29.739 --> 0:54:31.810 Your friend. It'll impress my dumb friends. 0:54:32.020 --> 0:54:34.300 Um, if you're friends with Melanie, then obviously, uh, check 0:54:34.300 --> 0:54:38.469 out parade, the new Cusk. Um, it's completely fucking incomprehensible, but. 0:54:40.090 --> 0:54:43.780 All right. Meg, what? Are you okay? Yeah, like. I'm sorry. 0:54:43.780 --> 0:54:46.630 I've made this a very antagonistic section. 0:54:46.660 --> 0:54:48.310 All right, all right. Meg, what have you got? 0:54:49.360 --> 0:54:52.399 Sorry. It's happened. Um, Meg, what have you got for us? 0:54:52.969 --> 0:54:56.630 Um, I have got an album because I don't have 0:54:56.630 --> 0:55:00.410 much TV to recommend on Tenplay. Unfortunately, um, it's Jessica 0:55:00.410 --> 0:55:03.680 Pratt's new album here in the pitch, which came out 0:55:03.680 --> 0:55:07.700 last month, but I'm slow to getting getting to this week. Um, 0:55:07.700 --> 0:55:09.650 and also her music generally. I mean, this is her 0:55:09.650 --> 0:55:11.720 fourth album. She's been around for a while. The kind 0:55:11.719 --> 0:55:14.509 of person who her songs pop up in Spotify playlists 0:55:14.510 --> 0:55:16.850 all the time when I'm just like, oh, songs for 0:55:16.850 --> 0:55:20.030 a Rainy walk. And it's like, oh, so dreamy, so nice. Um, 0:55:20.030 --> 0:55:22.640 but this album in particular is really great for people 0:55:22.640 --> 0:55:25.520 who don't know her. She's a singer songwriter from the 0:55:25.520 --> 0:55:28.190 US who's been compared to Joni Mitchell a lot. She 0:55:28.190 --> 0:55:32.150 does folk music, but kind of like ethereal, psychedelic folk 0:55:32.180 --> 0:55:36.860 type stuff. This album in particular was, um, inspired by 0:55:36.860 --> 0:55:39.259 LA and like the late 60s, so it's got deep 0:55:39.260 --> 0:55:42.560 Manson vibes for all those motorheads out there. Um, this 0:55:42.560 --> 0:55:46.610 kind of sunny and sinister mix, which, uh, is really 0:55:46.610 --> 0:55:49.489 nice listening at the moment when you know you're in 0:55:49.489 --> 0:55:52.700 a cold, wintry Melbourne morning and want to feel like 0:55:52.700 --> 0:55:54.530 you're in sunny 60s L.A.. 0:55:54.650 --> 0:55:56.810 I think that is so true. Meg, I really agree 0:55:56.810 --> 0:55:59.180 with this recommendation, mainly because I. 0:55:59.180 --> 0:56:02.870 Made it a few weeks ago. Did I missed it? 0:56:02.870 --> 0:56:05.000 I think this album is so good that I reckon 0:56:05.000 --> 0:56:07.580 we can have it twice on there just for, uh, 0:56:07.580 --> 0:56:10.580 people who haven't listened to it because it's quite it's 0:56:10.580 --> 0:56:12.650 it's a short album too, but you just feel like I. 0:56:12.650 --> 0:56:15.200 Was just going to say it's nice. It's like nine songs. 0:56:15.200 --> 0:56:18.740 It's so digestible. You don't feel overwhelmed by the content 0:56:18.739 --> 0:56:20.870 of some other creators. Um, would. 0:56:20.870 --> 0:56:21.500 I get it. 0:56:21.500 --> 0:56:22.340 Or would I? 0:56:22.430 --> 0:56:23.930 I reckon I could see you with your. 0:56:23.930 --> 0:56:24.770 New Yorker and. 0:56:24.770 --> 0:56:26.210 Your bagel and listening to. 0:56:26.210 --> 0:56:29.180 These kind of folky sounds. I think you'd love. 0:56:29.180 --> 0:56:30.800 It as long as you could be there to explain. 0:56:30.800 --> 0:56:35.090 It to me. Oh, here we go. What's yours? Okay. 0:56:35.180 --> 0:56:39.560 Mine is, um, is Queenie, which is on Disney Plus. 0:56:39.560 --> 0:56:43.700 It's based on the book, um, Candice Carty-williams book. Uh, 0:56:43.700 --> 0:56:47.120 it's a eight episode series. It's kind of a coming 0:56:47.120 --> 0:56:50.240 of age. It's set in south London. It follows the 0:56:50.239 --> 0:56:52.969 main characters. Queenie's kind of. She has a break up 0:56:52.969 --> 0:56:55.400 and then recovering from that. But it's got a lot 0:56:55.400 --> 0:56:59.330 about her family dynamic as well. Look, it's a really 0:56:59.330 --> 0:57:02.180 watchable show that's getting better with every episode. I'm about 0:57:02.180 --> 0:57:06.200 four episodes in, um, but it's a really good depiction of, um, 0:57:06.200 --> 0:57:10.700 South London Gen Z. Um, there's lots going on in it, 0:57:10.700 --> 0:57:13.879 but it's also very funny. Um, so if you're looking 0:57:13.880 --> 0:57:15.950 for a kind of nice show, um, change. 0:57:15.950 --> 0:57:16.640 Of pace from the. 0:57:16.640 --> 0:57:17.510 Many murders. 0:57:17.510 --> 0:57:18.860 From the many murders. 0:57:18.860 --> 0:57:20.840 This is a good one. It's got a lot of heart. Um, 0:57:20.840 --> 0:57:22.670 at the same time as. It's very funny. And I 0:57:22.670 --> 0:57:24.919 like all the shots of, um, London as well. 0:57:24.920 --> 0:57:26.330 Did you say it was on Disney+? It's on. 0:57:26.330 --> 0:57:26.990 Disney+. 0:57:26.990 --> 0:57:29.510 Yeah. So you can't watch Meg, unfortunately. Well, yeah. 0:57:30.020 --> 0:57:33.170 One more day. One more day. Um, I feel I 0:57:33.170 --> 0:57:34.610 feel like there's a lot of good stuff going under 0:57:34.610 --> 0:57:36.140 the radar on Disney at the moment. I mean, that 0:57:36.140 --> 0:57:39.890 was clipped as on Disney. We talked about that last week. Yeah. 0:57:39.890 --> 0:57:40.669 Worth checking out when. 0:57:40.670 --> 0:57:42.950 They're coming soon and then everything will. 0:57:42.950 --> 0:57:43.970 Be as it should be. 0:57:44.120 --> 0:57:46.490 And then everyone discovers all the shows that they've missed. 0:57:46.490 --> 0:57:48.110 Yeah, yeah. It is like that, isn't it? When you 0:57:48.110 --> 0:57:49.520 go onto a stream you haven't looked at in a 0:57:49.520 --> 0:57:51.200 while and you're like, oh, there's I'll sit with this 0:57:51.200 --> 0:57:53.030 for the next day or two. Do you have a. 0:57:53.030 --> 0:57:56.720 Little countdown timer, Thomas, for the season drop of the bear? 0:57:56.720 --> 0:58:00.470 Uh, no, I don't I'm obviously very excited. And look, 0:58:00.470 --> 0:58:03.050 in one of the I think it was the Vanity 0:58:03.050 --> 0:58:07.010 Fair that I read. Ayo Edebiri was on the cover. Um, 0:58:07.280 --> 0:58:09.680 actually really interesting interview, blah, blah, blah, but she I 0:58:09.680 --> 0:58:10.460 didn't realize. 0:58:10.460 --> 0:58:12.560 Um, are you trying to do a second recommendation because 0:58:12.560 --> 0:58:13.490 your first flopped? Yeah. 0:58:13.850 --> 0:58:16.520 I stand by it. Me and all the Sedaris heads 0:58:16.820 --> 0:58:19.880 just getting confused by left and right. But the she 0:58:19.880 --> 0:58:23.510 basically worked as a barista at this, uh, restaurant in 0:58:23.510 --> 0:58:25.970 New York called ABC kitchen. And the day I read 0:58:25.970 --> 0:58:27.950 the story, I went there for dinner. Wow. 0:58:28.250 --> 0:58:29.540 Because of that? No, no, no. 0:58:29.540 --> 0:58:31.340 No, like before, like when she, like, lived in New 0:58:31.340 --> 0:58:33.470 York and was like, just studying acting or whatever and 0:58:33.470 --> 0:58:35.570 was like a barista there and then. Yeah. So that 0:58:35.570 --> 0:58:36.920 was a fun tie in. 0:58:36.920 --> 0:58:39.050 Wow. That's great. There you go. You didn't see any 0:58:39.080 --> 0:58:40.850 anyone famous? But you got to go. 0:58:40.850 --> 0:58:43.070 Yes, I got to have person at work. Yes. 0:58:43.070 --> 0:58:46.760 Close proximity to where I once worked, which is good 0:58:46.760 --> 0:58:47.390 enough for me. 0:58:47.630 --> 0:58:51.800 What a highlight. Well, thank you so much, guys. We'll 0:58:51.800 --> 0:58:54.830 be back next week to No Doubt. Talk about the bear. 0:58:54.860 --> 0:58:56.840 Yes thanks guys Joe. 0:58:57.020 --> 0:58:58.070 Thank you. Bye. 0:59:00.130 --> 0:59:03.040 This episode of The Drop was produced by Kai Wong. 0:59:03.070 --> 0:59:05.320 If you enjoyed listening to today's episode of The Drop, 0:59:05.320 --> 0:59:07.900 make sure to follow us on your favorite podcast app. 0:59:07.900 --> 0:59:09.970 Leave us a review or better yet, share it with 0:59:09.970 --> 0:59:13.390 a friend. I'm Melanie Kimbrough and we'll see you next week.