1 00:00:07,550 --> 00:00:10,640 S1: Hey, I'm Melanie Kembrey and this is the drop a 2 00:00:10,640 --> 00:00:13,100 S1: culture show from the Sydney Morning Herald and The Age, 3 00:00:13,100 --> 00:00:15,260 S1: where we dive into the latest in the world of 4 00:00:15,260 --> 00:00:19,369 S1: pop culture and entertainment. Osman Farooqi is sadly on leave 5 00:00:19,370 --> 00:00:22,009 S1: just for this week, but I am joined by Thomas 6 00:00:22,010 --> 00:00:25,550 S1: Mitchell and Meg Watson. Thomas, you've been off jet setting 7 00:00:25,550 --> 00:00:29,150 S1: again from the Northern Territory to New York. What have 8 00:00:29,150 --> 00:00:31,460 S1: some of the highlights been from the Big Apple? 9 00:00:31,490 --> 00:00:33,440 S2: Yes, it makes it sound like I went from the 10 00:00:33,440 --> 00:00:34,790 S2: Northern Territory to New York, but. 11 00:00:34,790 --> 00:00:36,470 S1: I pretty much did. You've not worked since. 12 00:00:36,470 --> 00:00:39,320 S2: Yeah, that's actually quite true. Yes, it was very nice. 13 00:00:39,320 --> 00:00:43,310 S2: I went for a week for work for something TBC, 14 00:00:43,430 --> 00:00:46,670 S2: but yeah, actually it was, it was very fun. It's 15 00:00:46,760 --> 00:00:50,300 S2: obviously a great place to walk around in. Um, I 16 00:00:50,300 --> 00:00:52,580 S2: really thought I would see someone famous because every time 17 00:00:52,580 --> 00:00:55,550 S2: I've previously been, I've seen at least one famous person. Um, 18 00:00:55,550 --> 00:00:59,959 S2: but sadly. Have you seen. Yeah. See, like, I my 19 00:00:59,960 --> 00:01:02,910 S2: colleagues that I was with saw Sarah Paulson like ten 20 00:01:02,910 --> 00:01:05,150 S2: minutes after I left them. Okay, so that was about 21 00:01:05,150 --> 00:01:07,340 S2: as close as I got to, you know, a famous 22 00:01:07,340 --> 00:01:09,920 S2: person experience, but otherwise it was. It was very fun. Um. 23 00:01:09,920 --> 00:01:11,000 S2: And now I'm back. 24 00:01:11,030 --> 00:01:11,870 S1: Eat good food. 25 00:01:11,870 --> 00:01:15,170 S2: Yeah. Lots of pizza. Lots of bagels. Um, I really 26 00:01:15,170 --> 00:01:18,740 S2: feel like the bagel culture. It's surprising to me that 27 00:01:18,740 --> 00:01:20,420 S2: hasn't taken off here, given how much we love, like, 28 00:01:20,420 --> 00:01:22,850 S2: breakfast foods and sandwiches and stuff. And everyone over there 29 00:01:22,850 --> 00:01:23,660 S2: just eats them. 30 00:01:23,660 --> 00:01:26,119 S3: It's taken off in Melbourne. We've got a lot of 31 00:01:26,120 --> 00:01:27,980 S3: specialty shops which are hardcore. 32 00:01:27,980 --> 00:01:29,750 S2: And do people like, get around it? 33 00:01:29,750 --> 00:01:32,480 S3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, like like lines out the door every weekend. 34 00:01:32,480 --> 00:01:33,530 S2: Really? Yeah. That's weird. 35 00:01:33,530 --> 00:01:35,570 S3: I'm surprised Sydney doesn't have that. Yeah, that's weird, I know. 36 00:01:35,569 --> 00:01:37,910 S2: And then I was kind of thinking, like, you always 37 00:01:37,910 --> 00:01:40,100 S2: got to be thinking about potential businesses. I was like, 38 00:01:40,100 --> 00:01:43,070 S2: maybe that can be a thing that I do in 39 00:01:43,069 --> 00:01:43,670 S2: the future. Like, I. 40 00:01:43,670 --> 00:01:44,569 S1: Can open a bagel. 41 00:01:44,569 --> 00:01:46,819 S2: Business. Well, like, you know, there's a gap in the market, 42 00:01:46,819 --> 00:01:48,380 S2: a gap with a hole in the middle, and I'm 43 00:01:48,380 --> 00:01:48,890 S2: going to fill it. 44 00:01:48,890 --> 00:01:50,390 S1: I don't think there is a gap. I think you've 45 00:01:50,390 --> 00:01:52,430 S1: just not had bagels before. 46 00:01:52,430 --> 00:01:54,830 S2: No, I've had them before. But like when you you 47 00:01:54,830 --> 00:01:57,560 S2: guys have both been to New York, I'm assuming. Yes. 48 00:01:57,560 --> 00:02:00,140 S2: You know how, like, there's this cafe chain called bluestone. 49 00:02:00,140 --> 00:02:03,080 S2: It's like Australian started it. It's really popular and everyone's like, oh, 50 00:02:03,080 --> 00:02:05,029 S2: go to bluestone if you want a good coffee. And 51 00:02:05,030 --> 00:02:08,360 S2: I'm like that. You could do that same thing in reverse. Um, anyway, 52 00:02:08,360 --> 00:02:09,590 S2: this is all the stuff I thought about when I 53 00:02:09,590 --> 00:02:10,100 S2: was in New York. 54 00:02:10,250 --> 00:02:13,010 S1: When you were working for your actual job. Meg, what 55 00:02:13,010 --> 00:02:13,520 S1: about you? 56 00:02:13,520 --> 00:02:17,570 S3: My week has been pretty crap by comparison. I have 57 00:02:17,570 --> 00:02:20,630 S3: not been in New York. I've been sick in my house, 58 00:02:20,630 --> 00:02:26,240 S3: thanks to my twins bringing home every illness from daycare. Um, 59 00:02:26,240 --> 00:02:28,730 S3: and it's also been made worse by the fact that 60 00:02:28,730 --> 00:02:32,540 S3: I'm currently writing the story for the SMH and the 61 00:02:32,540 --> 00:02:35,420 S3: age about watching only ten play for a week, and 62 00:02:35,419 --> 00:02:38,600 S3: so we've been doing a whole series of them. People 63 00:02:38,600 --> 00:02:40,700 S3: have just watched iview for a week, SBS On Demand, 64 00:02:40,700 --> 00:02:42,740 S3: and I put my hand up for Tenplay, which is 65 00:02:42,740 --> 00:02:46,309 S3: like all well and good until you're stuck in your house, um, 66 00:02:46,310 --> 00:02:48,770 S3: all day with only ten play to go on. So 67 00:02:48,770 --> 00:02:52,070 S3: I've watched a lot of Taskmaster recently, and I was 68 00:02:52,070 --> 00:02:53,390 S3: so thrilled when you asked me to be on this 69 00:02:53,389 --> 00:02:55,370 S3: week's show, because I got to watch something else. Yeah. 70 00:02:55,520 --> 00:02:57,170 S2: So how strict have you been? I've been. 71 00:02:57,169 --> 00:03:00,320 S3: Pretty good. I've been pretty good. Um, if anything, though, 72 00:03:00,320 --> 00:03:03,440 S3: it's made me watch less TV overall because I knew 73 00:03:03,440 --> 00:03:06,500 S3: there wasn't much good stuff going. So it's maybe healthier actually. 74 00:03:06,500 --> 00:03:08,810 S2: Is your partner like, does it hedeland fall into the 75 00:03:08,810 --> 00:03:09,470 S2: remit of this? 76 00:03:09,470 --> 00:03:12,440 S3: Like, that's been that was a real topic of discussion. Um, 77 00:03:12,440 --> 00:03:17,840 S3: he was not stoked about the story. Um, but definitely 78 00:03:17,840 --> 00:03:21,050 S3: a few nights he was just watching other stuff and 79 00:03:21,050 --> 00:03:24,620 S3: I was, you know, cooking and not paying attention or like, 80 00:03:24,620 --> 00:03:28,280 S3: went into my room to watch a much less fun show. 81 00:03:28,310 --> 00:03:31,430 S1: Have you had any other discoveries apart from Taskmaster, which 82 00:03:31,430 --> 00:03:34,040 S1: is very popular here? Anything else deep in the archives 83 00:03:34,040 --> 00:03:34,820 S1: of Tenplay? 84 00:03:35,780 --> 00:03:38,720 S3: Um, I mean, it's pretty good for reality TV if 85 00:03:38,720 --> 00:03:41,510 S3: you're after reality TV, it's a decent place to be. 86 00:03:41,510 --> 00:03:44,210 S3: And that includes not just Australian series, but UK and 87 00:03:44,210 --> 00:03:47,870 S3: New Zealand, South Africa, they've got like full seasons of survivor, 88 00:03:47,870 --> 00:03:50,090 S3: of things like the Traders, which I know Aussies talked 89 00:03:50,090 --> 00:03:51,500 S3: about on the show a lot and is a really 90 00:03:51,500 --> 00:03:55,550 S3: decent show. The UK version especially is great. Um, beyond 91 00:03:55,550 --> 00:03:59,690 S3: that it is pretty bleak. There's no real scripted, um, 92 00:03:59,690 --> 00:04:02,990 S3: comedy or drama, which is a real hole unless you 93 00:04:02,990 --> 00:04:05,510 S3: want to watch The Secret Life of Us. Great. 94 00:04:05,660 --> 00:04:08,120 S2: I was gonna say surely that. And, like, offspring would 95 00:04:08,120 --> 00:04:08,510 S2: be on there. 96 00:04:08,900 --> 00:04:10,070 S1: Yep, yep. 97 00:04:10,070 --> 00:04:13,160 S3: Yes, they have all that. Um. So. Yeah. You'll love it, 98 00:04:13,160 --> 00:04:13,790 S3: I guess. 99 00:04:13,790 --> 00:04:15,980 S1: Yeah. Well, I'm looking forward to Thomas no doubt doing 100 00:04:15,980 --> 00:04:17,810 S1: the nine, the nine play. 101 00:04:17,810 --> 00:04:20,510 S2: One might do that anyway. Only watch either nine now 102 00:04:20,570 --> 00:04:24,080 S2: or Stan and they just got such premium. 103 00:04:24,500 --> 00:04:29,570 S1: Keep trying to fund your bagel business. Correct. All right. Well, 104 00:04:29,570 --> 00:04:32,359 S1: speaking about good TV shows this week we're going to 105 00:04:32,360 --> 00:04:35,750 S1: look into the art of television crime, the popularity of 106 00:04:35,750 --> 00:04:38,540 S1: the genre, the ethics and exploitations. When it's done well, 107 00:04:38,540 --> 00:04:40,460 S1: when it's done poorly. And we're going to look at 108 00:04:40,460 --> 00:04:43,820 S1: two big shows which were released recently Under the Bridge, 109 00:04:43,820 --> 00:04:47,120 S1: which is on Disney+, and Presumed Innocent, which is on 110 00:04:47,120 --> 00:04:49,790 S1: Apple TV, to kick us off, I feel like there 111 00:04:49,790 --> 00:04:55,580 S1: are a never ending stream of crime shows, documentaries, mini series. 112 00:04:55,580 --> 00:04:58,400 S1: Are you guys big crime heads? Meg, when you're not 113 00:04:58,400 --> 00:05:02,210 S1: watching Taskmaster, is it crime that you're hungering for? 114 00:05:02,960 --> 00:05:06,950 S3: I don't think I would classify myself as someone who. 115 00:05:07,190 --> 00:05:09,890 S3: Is a full true crime fan or anything like that. 116 00:05:09,890 --> 00:05:12,919 S3: I'm not chasing those really gory Dockers or anything, but 117 00:05:12,920 --> 00:05:14,990 S3: it's definitely part of my diet. I think I lean 118 00:05:14,990 --> 00:05:19,430 S3: towards the kind of funnier fictional takes in the genre, 119 00:05:19,430 --> 00:05:24,739 S3: the kind of Fargo, you know, Russian Doll was great. 120 00:05:24,740 --> 00:05:27,620 S3: Even deadlock in the past year or so from, um, 121 00:05:27,830 --> 00:05:31,190 S3: Kate McCartney and Kate McLennan was really a really fun 122 00:05:31,250 --> 00:05:34,760 S3: comedy spin on the genre. Um, but I mean, I'm 123 00:05:34,760 --> 00:05:38,090 S3: not above it either. Uh, during lockdowns, I binged every 124 00:05:38,089 --> 00:05:41,870 S3: single episode of Law and Order SVU. Um, and if 125 00:05:41,870 --> 00:05:44,240 S3: you have any idea of the back catalogue of that show, 126 00:05:44,240 --> 00:05:47,060 S3: that is a lot, a lot of time and pretty, 127 00:05:47,060 --> 00:05:50,120 S3: pretty bleak viewing as well. So it's part of the mix. 128 00:05:50,120 --> 00:05:51,830 S3: But I'm not a die hard, I think. How about. 129 00:05:51,830 --> 00:05:53,720 S1: You? I feel like there has been a real rise 130 00:05:53,720 --> 00:05:56,179 S1: of that kind of funny crime. Only murders in the 131 00:05:56,180 --> 00:05:59,570 S1: building is another one where it's less about the crime itself, 132 00:05:59,570 --> 00:06:03,529 S1: as much about the jokes that are made solving the crime. Thomas, 133 00:06:03,529 --> 00:06:05,240 S1: I know you like a bit of crime, I think. 134 00:06:05,240 --> 00:06:07,700 S2: Yeah, actually, like, I actually am a bit of a 135 00:06:07,700 --> 00:06:11,479 S2: crime head, even though I don't classify myself that way. 136 00:06:11,480 --> 00:06:13,700 S2: But when I was, like, thinking about this, I do 137 00:06:13,700 --> 00:06:16,220 S2: often feel like now one of the first things I 138 00:06:16,220 --> 00:06:17,450 S2: go to when I'm looking for a new show, like 139 00:06:17,450 --> 00:06:21,290 S2: I'll just naturally drift towards, like the really dark crimes like. 140 00:06:21,290 --> 00:06:23,180 S2: And I do feel like in the last few years, 141 00:06:23,180 --> 00:06:25,910 S2: there's been like a kind of, like big shift in 142 00:06:25,910 --> 00:06:28,279 S2: the level of quality. Like, I don't know why. Maybe 143 00:06:28,279 --> 00:06:29,300 S2: this is just in my own head, but I feel 144 00:06:29,300 --> 00:06:32,510 S2: like Mare of Easttown was one that, like, really like 145 00:06:32,510 --> 00:06:34,640 S2: people got buzzed about it in a way that often 146 00:06:34,640 --> 00:06:37,400 S2: these genre shows like Don't Demand. And I think, you know, 147 00:06:37,400 --> 00:06:39,080 S2: obviously it had Kate Winslet and it was like really 148 00:06:39,080 --> 00:06:41,450 S2: dark and gritty and stuff. And like that to me 149 00:06:41,450 --> 00:06:45,260 S2: is the perfect type of crime show. And yeah, I guess, 150 00:06:45,260 --> 00:06:47,539 S2: like since then I've found myself on a drifting towards 151 00:06:47,540 --> 00:06:50,420 S2: more and more of those, like really, I don't know, 152 00:06:50,420 --> 00:06:53,510 S2: I do like to be like disturbed when viewing. I 153 00:06:53,510 --> 00:06:55,190 S2: think it's like a comfort thing. In a weird way. 154 00:06:55,190 --> 00:06:56,330 S2: This is the same thing I have. Like I have 155 00:06:56,330 --> 00:06:57,799 S2: a discussion with my friends all the time. Whenever I'm 156 00:06:57,800 --> 00:07:00,740 S2: like quite hungover. I like watching horror films because it's like, 157 00:07:00,740 --> 00:07:03,620 S2: maybe it's the the forced, like emotion. And so I 158 00:07:03,620 --> 00:07:05,930 S2: think it's the same kind of appeal when I go 159 00:07:05,930 --> 00:07:07,460 S2: to look for like a true crime show or just 160 00:07:07,460 --> 00:07:08,539 S2: a crime show in general. 161 00:07:08,540 --> 00:07:10,370 S1: And many people would say that the BBC kind of 162 00:07:10,370 --> 00:07:15,320 S1: pioneered the classic crime drama with detectives that you follow 163 00:07:15,320 --> 00:07:18,260 S1: for series after series. I quite like those ones. Like 164 00:07:18,260 --> 00:07:22,640 S1: I recently discovered Shetland and watched all seven series, and 165 00:07:22,640 --> 00:07:25,880 S1: there's something so comforting in the formula of it. You 166 00:07:25,880 --> 00:07:28,220 S1: kind of put it on nice landscape shots. You know 167 00:07:28,220 --> 00:07:30,290 S1: what you're getting. It's not too surprising. It's not too 168 00:07:30,290 --> 00:07:32,930 S1: hard to follow. Um, Meg, do you like those kind 169 00:07:32,930 --> 00:07:35,690 S1: of classic BBC crime dramas? 170 00:07:36,290 --> 00:07:39,440 S3: I've never got into those, really. I mean, I know 171 00:07:39,440 --> 00:07:43,550 S3: there's always a channel on TV pumping, just like non-stop 172 00:07:43,850 --> 00:07:48,140 S3: summer murder mysteries of some British description. Um, I never 173 00:07:48,140 --> 00:07:50,690 S3: got into those, but I feel like over the past 174 00:07:50,690 --> 00:07:52,880 S3: little while, there's such a deviation in how we talk 175 00:07:52,880 --> 00:07:56,120 S3: about these crime shows because like you said, there's like 176 00:07:56,120 --> 00:07:59,810 S3: these prestige offerings. There's Kate Winslet doing Mare of Easttown. 177 00:07:59,810 --> 00:08:01,670 S3: And then on the other hand, Netflix are just like 178 00:08:01,670 --> 00:08:07,130 S3: slapping out one every week of kind of increasingly disturbing content. 179 00:08:07,130 --> 00:08:11,300 S3: I mean, I watched that, um, Dahmer show. It was 180 00:08:11,300 --> 00:08:13,580 S3: like the show with ten names. It's like monster, Jeffrey 181 00:08:13,610 --> 00:08:17,600 S3: Dahmer Story's Jeffrey Dahmer Chronicle. But that was, um, really 182 00:08:17,600 --> 00:08:19,640 S3: off putting. And I feel like in the past few years, 183 00:08:19,640 --> 00:08:24,260 S3: I've really leaned away from anything that's actually based on 184 00:08:24,260 --> 00:08:28,370 S3: true stories. Um, just because there's such a hunger with 185 00:08:28,370 --> 00:08:30,650 S3: these big streaming companies, especially to juice them for all 186 00:08:30,650 --> 00:08:35,330 S3: they're worth. And, um, that made me a little tentative, actually, 187 00:08:35,330 --> 00:08:37,010 S3: for one of the shows that was coming out at 188 00:08:37,010 --> 00:08:38,630 S3: the moment, which we're going to talk about. 189 00:08:38,630 --> 00:08:40,609 S1: Yes. And we'll get to Under the Bridge, which is 190 00:08:40,610 --> 00:08:44,240 S1: based on a real life story soon. And it's interesting 191 00:08:44,240 --> 00:08:46,610 S1: what you were saying, Meg, because the rise of the 192 00:08:46,610 --> 00:08:50,420 S1: crime drama and the true crime drama has happened parallel 193 00:08:50,420 --> 00:08:53,060 S1: also to the rise of the true crime documentary, both 194 00:08:53,059 --> 00:08:56,059 S1: on screen and when it comes to podcasts, shows like 195 00:08:56,059 --> 00:09:00,349 S1: The Staircase, which really kind of capitalized on that appetite 196 00:09:00,350 --> 00:09:04,820 S1: for true crime. Thomas, why do you think people love 197 00:09:04,820 --> 00:09:07,550 S1: watching crime? You hinted that for some reason you find 198 00:09:07,550 --> 00:09:11,030 S1: it quite cathartic to watch people being brutally killed on television. 199 00:09:11,750 --> 00:09:13,670 S2: Okay, you've stitched me up there now, I think. I mean, 200 00:09:13,670 --> 00:09:16,100 S2: I do think in a way that, well, the format 201 00:09:16,100 --> 00:09:18,350 S2: is like, in a strange way, comforting because it's always like, 202 00:09:18,350 --> 00:09:21,439 S2: you know, classic story structure of like beginning, middle, end. 203 00:09:21,440 --> 00:09:24,230 S2: There's like good guys, bad guys. It's like familiar to us. 204 00:09:24,230 --> 00:09:26,900 S2: And so that is appealing in a way. But I mean, 205 00:09:26,900 --> 00:09:28,550 S2: I don't know if you've heard of a little thing 206 00:09:28,550 --> 00:09:31,250 S2: called In Cold Blood by Truman Capote. No. But like, 207 00:09:31,250 --> 00:09:34,550 S2: you know, the genre is obviously, like, really old. Um, 208 00:09:34,550 --> 00:09:37,670 S2: as as we know we've discussed this previously, but I 209 00:09:37,670 --> 00:09:39,770 S2: feel like crime as a genre used to be, like, 210 00:09:39,770 --> 00:09:41,600 S2: especially even in Capote's day, it was like a bit 211 00:09:41,600 --> 00:09:44,030 S2: low brow and stuff, whereas that has really shifted. And 212 00:09:44,030 --> 00:09:46,280 S2: we've been talking about like the popularity of like crime 213 00:09:46,280 --> 00:09:49,220 S2: or true crime for like years now. But I think 214 00:09:49,220 --> 00:09:53,030 S2: especially in this era of like, you know, the armchair 215 00:09:53,030 --> 00:09:55,160 S2: detective thing that we talk about so much, like there 216 00:09:55,160 --> 00:09:57,500 S2: is that element of like, people love to, you know, 217 00:09:57,500 --> 00:09:59,839 S2: the rise of, like, serial and making a murderer like 218 00:09:59,840 --> 00:10:02,600 S2: that thing of being involved in the story in real 219 00:10:02,600 --> 00:10:04,370 S2: time as, like a big part of, I think, the 220 00:10:04,370 --> 00:10:06,970 S2: current obsession with true crime. And then. I guess the 221 00:10:06,970 --> 00:10:09,670 S2: fact that it is like always that voyeuristic thing of like, oh, 222 00:10:10,390 --> 00:10:14,740 S2: getting to like, see the icky parts of real life is, 223 00:10:14,740 --> 00:10:17,380 S2: is appealing. Like it's just human nature. I think we 224 00:10:17,380 --> 00:10:19,480 S2: do like to look at that kind of car crash 225 00:10:19,480 --> 00:10:21,490 S2: effect where you like, can't look away. And I think 226 00:10:21,490 --> 00:10:24,640 S2: all of that stuff has been like, true forever. But 227 00:10:24,640 --> 00:10:27,069 S2: now in this era of streaming, it's like, you know, 228 00:10:27,070 --> 00:10:29,589 S2: they're just like constantly like, I think both of these 229 00:10:29,590 --> 00:10:31,270 S2: shows we're going to talk about today, Under the Bridge 230 00:10:31,270 --> 00:10:33,729 S2: and Presumed Innocent are based on books like, it's like 231 00:10:33,730 --> 00:10:36,940 S2: all the streamers have realized there's so much like, material 232 00:10:36,940 --> 00:10:39,520 S2: existing now that they can, you know, adapt and stuff. 233 00:10:39,520 --> 00:10:42,370 S2: And so it's really like it's all come together to this, 234 00:10:42,370 --> 00:10:44,650 S2: like perfect marriage of, like, all this stuff exists. We're 235 00:10:44,650 --> 00:10:47,050 S2: already kind of conditioned to be interested in it. And 236 00:10:47,050 --> 00:10:49,270 S2: now it's just like, how much can you handle? Yeah. 237 00:10:49,270 --> 00:10:50,949 S1: And Meg, you hinted at kind of you feel a 238 00:10:50,950 --> 00:10:54,790 S1: bit of discomfort about kind of that, that the rise 239 00:10:54,790 --> 00:10:57,400 S1: of this genre and how readily we are to consume 240 00:10:57,400 --> 00:11:00,040 S1: it and make it. And, you know, when things, when 241 00:11:00,040 --> 00:11:03,189 S1: industries do see a big boom and true crime documentaries 242 00:11:03,190 --> 00:11:05,140 S1: and true crime is one of those, it's kind of 243 00:11:05,140 --> 00:11:08,740 S1: churned out so fast and people are wanting to capitalize 244 00:11:08,740 --> 00:11:12,550 S1: on the interest so much that sometimes the ethics of 245 00:11:12,550 --> 00:11:15,010 S1: it aren't given time to be considered. So you see 246 00:11:15,040 --> 00:11:19,359 S1: documentary makers making shows about people without really kind of 247 00:11:19,360 --> 00:11:23,200 S1: giving moral consideration to what they're doing. When did you 248 00:11:23,200 --> 00:11:25,300 S1: kind of start to feel a bit icky about some 249 00:11:25,300 --> 00:11:28,000 S1: of these crime shows, particularly the ones based on real life? 250 00:11:28,000 --> 00:11:30,790 S3: Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I think to pinpoint 251 00:11:30,790 --> 00:11:34,000 S3: a moment, I think something happened in 2014 that collectively 252 00:11:34,000 --> 00:11:37,720 S3: broke our brains around that first season of serial. Um, 253 00:11:37,720 --> 00:11:42,370 S3: we all became obsessed with Sarah Koenig and Adnan Saeed. And, 254 00:11:42,850 --> 00:11:46,090 S3: you know, that was the first kind of popular moment, 255 00:11:46,090 --> 00:11:49,270 S3: I think, where everyone was hitting Reddit, doing their own 256 00:11:49,270 --> 00:11:52,359 S3: kind of investigations into something that this professional journalist was 257 00:11:52,360 --> 00:11:56,170 S3: already looking into. And from there it kind of spiraled 258 00:11:56,170 --> 00:11:57,910 S3: out of control. Then we got, you know, the making 259 00:11:57,910 --> 00:12:00,730 S3: a murderer, we got the jinx, we got the staircase, 260 00:12:00,730 --> 00:12:03,670 S3: we got all these run ons that, you know, are 261 00:12:03,670 --> 00:12:05,890 S3: great objects in their own right and really interesting and 262 00:12:05,890 --> 00:12:09,430 S3: worthwhile investigations in many ways, but at the same time 263 00:12:09,429 --> 00:12:12,940 S3: spiraled into this online chaos, which I was very much 264 00:12:12,940 --> 00:12:15,250 S3: a part of. You know, I really enjoyed that as 265 00:12:15,250 --> 00:12:18,340 S3: a moment. But as the years wear on, we're past 266 00:12:18,340 --> 00:12:22,150 S3: a decade since that first came out. Now it's just tiring. 267 00:12:22,150 --> 00:12:26,140 S3: I think the idea of true crime being this participatory 268 00:12:26,140 --> 00:12:29,110 S3: sport is just, you know, there's good ways to do 269 00:12:29,110 --> 00:12:31,660 S3: it and bad, and it's an ethical quagmire all the time. 270 00:12:31,660 --> 00:12:33,730 S3: But I'm just tired of it, frankly. Yeah. 271 00:12:33,730 --> 00:12:35,350 S1: And we saw it all come to a head, of course, 272 00:12:35,350 --> 00:12:38,290 S1: with baby reindeer, which was kind of the extreme of 273 00:12:38,290 --> 00:12:42,190 S1: that armchair detective. Um, but you were talking about journalists 274 00:12:42,190 --> 00:12:45,910 S1: being involved in, in these crime stories, and he. 275 00:12:45,910 --> 00:12:46,540 S2: Was a journalist. 276 00:12:46,540 --> 00:12:52,030 S1: Nick Cafferty, um, of course, was very involved in Cold Blood, 277 00:12:52,030 --> 00:12:54,580 S1: and it's very much a part of that story. And 278 00:12:54,580 --> 00:12:58,450 S1: in Under the Bridge, uh, as well, there's a journalist character. 279 00:12:58,450 --> 00:13:00,790 S1: So why don't we move on to talking about that one? 280 00:13:01,330 --> 00:13:02,890 UU: There's danger everywhere. 281 00:13:07,150 --> 00:13:11,020 S4: But danger had never looked quite like this before. 282 00:13:13,340 --> 00:13:14,809 S5: This girl, Reena Virk. 283 00:13:16,040 --> 00:13:20,630 S6: She's been missing for three days. That night I saw something. 284 00:13:21,650 --> 00:13:22,850 S6: What happened under the bridge? 285 00:13:24,150 --> 00:13:26,400 S1: It's an eight part mini series which is now on 286 00:13:26,400 --> 00:13:29,160 S1: Disney via Hulu, and it's about the real life murder 287 00:13:29,160 --> 00:13:31,350 S1: of 14 year old Reena Virk by a group of 288 00:13:31,350 --> 00:13:35,730 S1: teenagers in British Columbia, Canada, in 1997. It's based on 289 00:13:35,730 --> 00:13:39,990 S1: the 2005 book of the same name by journalist Rebecca Godfrey, 290 00:13:39,990 --> 00:13:42,719 S1: who in this series is played by Riley Keough, who 291 00:13:42,720 --> 00:13:46,020 S1: is also an EP on the show. She returns to 292 00:13:46,020 --> 00:13:48,510 S1: her home in Victoria to work on a book, but 293 00:13:48,510 --> 00:13:51,930 S1: finds herself, like Truman, part of the story. When the 294 00:13:51,929 --> 00:13:57,030 S1: body of a Indian-canadian teen, Reena, is discovered. She's played 295 00:13:57,030 --> 00:14:01,200 S1: by Ritika Gupta, and the focus turns on a group 296 00:14:01,200 --> 00:14:05,730 S1: of teenagers Josephine Bell, played by Chloe Guidry, Warren Glatkowski, 297 00:14:05,730 --> 00:14:08,849 S1: played by Javon Wanna Walton, and Kelly Ellard, played by 298 00:14:08,850 --> 00:14:13,709 S1: Izzy G. Lily Gladstone plays Detective Kam Benchland, who has 299 00:14:13,710 --> 00:14:18,390 S1: a complicated relationship with Rebecca. Meg, what did you make 300 00:14:18,390 --> 00:14:20,220 S1: of Under the Bridge? Did you like watching it? 301 00:14:21,210 --> 00:14:23,880 S3: Yeah, I was pretty skeptical going in for these same reasons. 302 00:14:23,880 --> 00:14:27,720 S3: I'm not super into the true stories these days. I'm 303 00:14:27,720 --> 00:14:29,760 S3: a bit skeptical of these shows, which are always based 304 00:14:29,760 --> 00:14:32,850 S3: around a dead girl in a small town. The mystery 305 00:14:32,850 --> 00:14:37,350 S3: surrounding it. Um, but I was pleasantly surprised, I think 306 00:14:37,350 --> 00:14:40,830 S3: just because of the the depth of the story, I 307 00:14:40,830 --> 00:14:44,400 S3: suppose there was real compassion for Rena and her family, 308 00:14:44,400 --> 00:14:46,680 S3: and she gets a lot more screen time than most 309 00:14:46,680 --> 00:14:48,690 S3: victims do when they kind of dispersed. Of in the 310 00:14:48,690 --> 00:14:52,230 S3: opening EP. Um, her story is a really interesting one. 311 00:14:52,230 --> 00:14:54,960 S3: You know, growing up in this small Canadian town from 312 00:14:54,960 --> 00:14:57,780 S3: an Indian family, her mother is a strict Jehovah's Witness, 313 00:14:57,780 --> 00:15:01,620 S3: puts her in a pretty tough position with these, you know, 314 00:15:01,620 --> 00:15:05,520 S3: tough girls of the 90s. Um, I thought particularly the 315 00:15:05,520 --> 00:15:10,950 S3: dynamic of girls kind of young girl violence on young 316 00:15:10,950 --> 00:15:13,109 S3: girls is an interesting one. Usually when it's a dead 317 00:15:13,110 --> 00:15:14,640 S3: girl in a small town, it's like, which of these 318 00:15:14,640 --> 00:15:18,600 S3: 12 men did it? They all have reasons. Whereas now 319 00:15:18,600 --> 00:15:21,630 S3: it's much more about like, we kind of know who 320 00:15:21,630 --> 00:15:24,780 S3: the culprits are. But why would that happen? How could 321 00:15:24,780 --> 00:15:27,480 S3: it happen? What does this particular type of violence that 322 00:15:27,480 --> 00:15:29,250 S3: young girls inflict on each other and why? I found 323 00:15:29,250 --> 00:15:31,800 S3: that really interesting. There's a few caveats there. I found 324 00:15:31,800 --> 00:15:34,710 S3: Riley Keoughs character a bit strange. And, you know, I've 325 00:15:34,710 --> 00:15:36,600 S3: seen three episodes at this point, and I don't fully 326 00:15:36,600 --> 00:15:39,990 S3: understand her backstory and some of her motivations, but all 327 00:15:39,990 --> 00:15:41,280 S3: in all, I'm having a good time. 328 00:15:41,280 --> 00:15:43,530 S1: And what about you, Thomas? I know you've watched it all, 329 00:15:43,530 --> 00:15:45,600 S1: and you were you were kind of hyping this up 330 00:15:45,600 --> 00:15:47,460 S1: before it got to Australia, because it had quite a 331 00:15:47,460 --> 00:15:50,700 S1: prominent release overseas before it landed on Disney here. Yeah. 332 00:15:51,060 --> 00:15:53,820 S1: Did it live up to your expectations? Yeah, I think so. 333 00:15:53,820 --> 00:15:56,220 S2: I actually weirdly like didn't realize it was a true 334 00:15:56,250 --> 00:15:57,450 S2: story going into it. 335 00:15:57,540 --> 00:15:59,880 S1: Um, even though it says at the start of every 336 00:15:59,880 --> 00:16:03,300 S1: episode this is based on a true story. Yeah. 337 00:16:04,080 --> 00:16:07,200 S2: This is like a indictment of my, like, short attention span. 338 00:16:07,290 --> 00:16:09,450 S3: It's okay. Maybe you thought it was a Fargo situation. Exactly. 339 00:16:09,900 --> 00:16:12,780 S2: You can never tell anymore. Uh, yeah. I think it's 340 00:16:12,780 --> 00:16:15,030 S2: like it's funny talking about these two, like, Presumed Innocent, 341 00:16:15,030 --> 00:16:19,020 S2: which obviously get onto in such close succession. I feel 342 00:16:19,020 --> 00:16:22,470 S2: like I really enjoyed this, but it probably felt more 343 00:16:22,470 --> 00:16:26,070 S2: like a show that kind of, on the surface, ticked 344 00:16:26,070 --> 00:16:29,220 S2: all the boxes of like what constitutes a good, you know, 345 00:16:29,220 --> 00:16:31,590 S2: true crime show these days. Like it had all the 346 00:16:31,590 --> 00:16:33,960 S2: elements in place. But I think like by the end 347 00:16:33,960 --> 00:16:36,240 S2: of it I was just a little bit like, ah, 348 00:16:36,240 --> 00:16:40,590 S2: it it's a slightly unsatisfying, I think, um, even though 349 00:16:40,590 --> 00:16:43,170 S2: it did feel like it had the framework to be 350 00:16:43,170 --> 00:16:45,630 S2: like a really good show. I thought Riley Keough was good, 351 00:16:45,630 --> 00:16:48,090 S2: and I was especially interested, I think, in Lily Gladstone, 352 00:16:48,090 --> 00:16:51,360 S2: because she's had this massive year, you know, she basically 353 00:16:51,360 --> 00:16:53,070 S2: lots of people thought she was like robbed for an Oscar. 354 00:16:53,070 --> 00:16:54,720 S2: It was like a breakout year. And I always find 355 00:16:54,720 --> 00:16:56,940 S2: it interesting to see, like what someone like that does next. 356 00:16:56,940 --> 00:17:00,090 S2: I thought this was like a funny project for her, like, 357 00:17:00,090 --> 00:17:02,010 S2: because I don't think you know her character. They have 358 00:17:02,010 --> 00:17:04,679 S2: an interesting relationship. Her character is good, but it was 359 00:17:04,680 --> 00:17:09,030 S2: a strange one I didn't like quite understand why she 360 00:17:09,030 --> 00:17:10,800 S2: would decide to do like this particular TV show where 361 00:17:10,800 --> 00:17:13,830 S2: she was kind of like third lead, really, like after 362 00:17:13,830 --> 00:17:16,739 S2: Rina and Riley, Kira's character. But yeah, I guess like 363 00:17:16,740 --> 00:17:19,200 S2: generally I had an interesting time and I do think 364 00:17:19,200 --> 00:17:21,870 S2: there were, you know, like you said, Meg, the way 365 00:17:21,869 --> 00:17:24,419 S2: that crime specifically was treated, like at first you're like, 366 00:17:24,420 --> 00:17:26,159 S2: oh God, here we go again, like a brutal murder. 367 00:17:26,160 --> 00:17:28,440 S2: But then it does kind of like delve into more 368 00:17:28,440 --> 00:17:30,630 S2: and especially that's probably my favorite part, I think, like 369 00:17:30,630 --> 00:17:33,750 S2: learning about the, you know, the three girls who, uh, 370 00:17:33,750 --> 00:17:36,780 S2: kind of in the midst of it, um, and you know, 371 00:17:36,780 --> 00:17:39,660 S2: that they're obviously from impoverished backgrounds and like, their friendship, 372 00:17:39,660 --> 00:17:42,600 S2: I thought was like really at times hard but interesting 373 00:17:42,630 --> 00:17:46,110 S2: to watch because, you know, like, they're really up against 374 00:17:46,109 --> 00:17:47,550 S2: it and they're really awful to each other. But then 375 00:17:47,550 --> 00:17:49,470 S2: there are like moments of tenderness. So that was really interesting. 376 00:17:49,470 --> 00:17:51,330 S2: But yeah, I think a little bit by the end 377 00:17:51,330 --> 00:17:53,970 S2: I was like, okay, it felt paint by numbers. 378 00:17:54,090 --> 00:17:57,210 S1: Yeah. And I think as you're hinting at, there's a 379 00:17:57,210 --> 00:18:01,080 S1: lot going on in this show. There's a journalist character 380 00:18:01,080 --> 00:18:04,080 S1: that's the Riley Keefe character, there's the detective cam. They've 381 00:18:04,080 --> 00:18:07,200 S1: got a relationship going on. There's flashbacks to the past. 382 00:18:07,200 --> 00:18:11,340 S1: There are troubled youth. There's elements of race that's coming 383 00:18:11,340 --> 00:18:15,480 S1: into this to, um, I almost thought it was trying 384 00:18:15,480 --> 00:18:18,690 S1: to do too much and tick too many boxes. Um, 385 00:18:18,810 --> 00:18:22,080 S1: I know the directors and makers have spoken about how 386 00:18:22,080 --> 00:18:24,840 S1: they wanted to approach the crime with radical empathy, giving 387 00:18:24,840 --> 00:18:28,230 S1: it given it is based on a real story. But 388 00:18:28,230 --> 00:18:30,750 S1: I did feel that maybe it held them back from 389 00:18:30,750 --> 00:18:33,840 S1: going as into some of these dynamics as they would have, 390 00:18:33,840 --> 00:18:35,790 S1: and they kind of skimmed the surface of a lot 391 00:18:35,790 --> 00:18:40,020 S1: of these issues, kind of issues of socioeconomic backgrounds, issues 392 00:18:40,020 --> 00:18:42,870 S1: of race. They kind of glided along the surface. And 393 00:18:42,869 --> 00:18:46,139 S1: to me, it almost felt a bit bland, and maybe 394 00:18:46,140 --> 00:18:48,480 S1: it could have gone more in depth on some of 395 00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:50,910 S1: these things. Why don't we talk about it is set 396 00:18:50,910 --> 00:18:53,220 S1: in the 90s and the 90s. Element is actually quite 397 00:18:53,220 --> 00:18:56,670 S1: a big part of this show in particular. Um, Biggs. 398 00:18:57,390 --> 00:18:59,489 S2: I was waiting for you. You're gonna go biggie or 399 00:18:59,490 --> 00:19:00,510 S2: you would spell it out. I knew you. 400 00:19:00,510 --> 00:19:03,660 S1: Would look at me for this 1997 opus, Life After Death, 401 00:19:03,660 --> 00:19:06,389 S1: which is a huge part of the show. How well, Meg, 402 00:19:06,390 --> 00:19:08,250 S1: did you enjoy that setting of the 90s and how 403 00:19:08,250 --> 00:19:10,710 S1: well do you think they captured that time? 404 00:19:10,710 --> 00:19:14,040 S3: Yeah, I mean, look, I was six and 1997, so 405 00:19:14,040 --> 00:19:16,919 S3: my perception of the moment is probably a little different 406 00:19:16,920 --> 00:19:20,430 S3: to some other people, but I think that they captured the. 407 00:19:20,580 --> 00:19:23,189 S3: You're really well, and I think that specific point in 408 00:19:23,190 --> 00:19:26,070 S3: time is a really interesting one to tell this story. 409 00:19:26,070 --> 00:19:28,290 S3: I mean, it was a time where a lot of 410 00:19:28,290 --> 00:19:32,010 S3: young girls were reclaiming power in lots of ways. I mean, 411 00:19:32,010 --> 00:19:35,970 S3: 97 is one year after the craft came out, which, 412 00:19:35,970 --> 00:19:38,459 S3: you know, had teenage girls acting a bit witchy and 413 00:19:38,460 --> 00:19:41,100 S3: feeling like they had supernatural powers. You saw a scene 414 00:19:41,100 --> 00:19:43,080 S3: in one of the early episodes the girls are doing, 415 00:19:43,080 --> 00:19:47,609 S3: like a seance at a party. Um, you know, they 416 00:19:47,609 --> 00:19:51,210 S3: were feeling like they could have a more masculine style. 417 00:19:51,210 --> 00:19:53,820 S3: She's got the Steve Madden kind of combat boots. This 418 00:19:53,820 --> 00:19:57,330 S3: was the era of, like, No Doubt's just a girl. Um, 419 00:19:57,330 --> 00:19:59,940 S3: you know, 97 is the year that Spiceworld came out. 420 00:19:59,940 --> 00:20:03,180 S3: These are not Spice World girls. Um, they're much more 421 00:20:03,180 --> 00:20:06,180 S3: about Tupac and Biggie, but I think it's a really 422 00:20:06,180 --> 00:20:09,390 S3: great exploration of, you know, what power young women had 423 00:20:09,390 --> 00:20:12,510 S3: at this time and what whether that power was dispersed 424 00:20:12,510 --> 00:20:16,379 S3: equally because, as you said, the girls featured are pretty 425 00:20:16,380 --> 00:20:19,290 S3: disadvantaged in a lot of ways, and feeling a lot 426 00:20:19,290 --> 00:20:22,740 S3: of their anger comes from that disadvantage, whether that's socioeconomic 427 00:20:22,740 --> 00:20:27,300 S3: or racial or religious in some respects. And it really 428 00:20:27,300 --> 00:20:29,790 S3: butts heads against one another. So I felt it was 429 00:20:29,790 --> 00:20:32,700 S3: such an interesting exploration of who gets what power and why, 430 00:20:32,700 --> 00:20:34,500 S3: and how do they use it against each other. I mean, 431 00:20:34,500 --> 00:20:39,090 S3: the white girls in this little gang, the Crip, Crip 432 00:20:39,090 --> 00:20:43,080 S3: mafia cartel, Chelsea, they, um, they seem pretty keen on 433 00:20:43,080 --> 00:20:47,010 S3: a particular type of culture that they're weaponizing. Uh, pretty, uh, 434 00:20:47,010 --> 00:20:51,150 S3: appallingly against the black and non-white people in their group. 435 00:20:51,150 --> 00:20:54,240 S1: Yeah, that's really well put, because part of the thing 436 00:20:54,240 --> 00:20:56,910 S1: this show does is walk a really fine line between 437 00:20:56,910 --> 00:21:01,050 S1: capturing the savagery of the crime, um, that is committed, 438 00:21:01,050 --> 00:21:04,800 S1: but also placing the perpetrators in the context of their 439 00:21:05,220 --> 00:21:09,600 S1: troubled lives. Um, do you think it did that successfully, Thomas? 440 00:21:10,020 --> 00:21:12,119 S2: Uh, yeah, I think so. Just one second. I'm going 441 00:21:12,119 --> 00:21:13,560 S2: back to the 90s. I did. 442 00:21:13,560 --> 00:21:14,369 S1: Think your favorite. 443 00:21:14,369 --> 00:21:19,500 S2: Era, it was nice to see like, people smoking on screen, because. 444 00:21:20,190 --> 00:21:21,869 S1: That was not what I thought you were gonna say. 445 00:21:21,869 --> 00:21:22,680 S3: Wow, what a takeaway. 446 00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:24,990 S1: But Riley here, she TV, she smokes. 447 00:21:24,990 --> 00:21:26,910 S2: No, but, like, she smokes all the time. And then, like, 448 00:21:26,910 --> 00:21:30,930 S2: in famously in Mare of Easttown, obviously my favorite crime show, 449 00:21:31,050 --> 00:21:32,669 S2: She Vapes, which I remember was like one of the 450 00:21:32,670 --> 00:21:34,949 S2: first times I saw someone vaping, like, on screen in 451 00:21:34,950 --> 00:21:37,410 S2: like a modern crime drama. And whereas, like, there's so 452 00:21:37,410 --> 00:21:39,210 S2: much smoking in this show and I know obviously smoking 453 00:21:39,210 --> 00:21:42,330 S2: is bad, etc., etc. but it felt like it really 454 00:21:42,330 --> 00:21:44,190 S2: like placed it in the 90s when it was just 455 00:21:44,190 --> 00:21:46,050 S2: like people did it without thought rather than like a 456 00:21:46,050 --> 00:21:48,660 S2: fucking BlackBerry ice or whatever. She was just like, you know, 457 00:21:48,780 --> 00:21:51,660 S2: handing out cigarettes. They were like probably $5 for a packet. 458 00:21:51,930 --> 00:21:53,610 S2: So I quite enjoyed that. And so. 459 00:21:53,609 --> 00:21:54,270 S3: Nostalgic. 460 00:21:54,270 --> 00:21:55,800 S2: Yeah. Also the fact that there was just like, I 461 00:21:55,800 --> 00:21:58,980 S2: think you take this for granted, but no phones, like. 462 00:21:58,980 --> 00:21:59,790 S1: Yes, you. 463 00:21:59,790 --> 00:22:01,920 S2: Know, like Reno at one point runs to a payphone 464 00:22:01,920 --> 00:22:04,350 S2: at one point. Yeah. But like just that, you know, 465 00:22:04,350 --> 00:22:06,659 S2: obviously we take it for granted now. But when you 466 00:22:06,660 --> 00:22:08,700 S2: think about telling a story like this and this is 467 00:22:08,700 --> 00:22:11,400 S2: something I often think about generally it's so much easier 468 00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:14,280 S2: to commit a crime in the 90s because, like, it's 469 00:22:14,280 --> 00:22:15,870 S2: so hard now to get. I mean, I know because 470 00:22:15,869 --> 00:22:17,910 S2: I've been trying it's so hard to like get away 471 00:22:17,910 --> 00:22:20,700 S2: with the crime now because everything is like, whereas in 472 00:22:20,730 --> 00:22:23,580 S2: that era, like even, you know, obviously Reena, like, kind 473 00:22:23,580 --> 00:22:25,109 S2: of goes missing for all this time and there's like 474 00:22:25,109 --> 00:22:27,750 S2: a little tiny bit of CCTV, but like, whereas now 475 00:22:27,750 --> 00:22:29,820 S2: every so much of that would be captured, like you 476 00:22:29,820 --> 00:22:33,180 S2: can so easily trace back because of technology, whereas back then, 477 00:22:33,180 --> 00:22:35,040 S2: you know, you were just smoking and in the dark. 478 00:22:35,040 --> 00:22:36,750 S1: I think that's a good point. And a lot of 479 00:22:36,750 --> 00:22:40,830 S1: authors and, um, film directors and TV makers are setting 480 00:22:40,830 --> 00:22:44,670 S1: their shows just slightly before technology really takes hold for 481 00:22:44,670 --> 00:22:48,000 S1: that very reason, because the logistics of trying to commit 482 00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:50,609 S1: a crime and solve it when there is internet. Yeah, 483 00:22:50,730 --> 00:22:53,879 S1: like changes everything. Well, we were talking about, um, we 484 00:22:53,880 --> 00:22:57,480 S1: were talking about Riley Coffee's character, Rebecca Godfrey, who is 485 00:22:57,480 --> 00:23:00,060 S1: this journalist who comes back to write her book, and 486 00:23:00,060 --> 00:23:05,040 S1: then she gets entangled. Really entangled with these children. Thomas, 487 00:23:05,040 --> 00:23:06,780 S1: have you ever covered a story like that? 488 00:23:07,619 --> 00:23:12,420 S2: Uh, yes. Actually, uh, no. Look, I've never really done. Sadly. 489 00:23:12,420 --> 00:23:15,149 S2: I know we'll get on to your crime career, Mel. Uh, 490 00:23:15,150 --> 00:23:18,090 S2: for the listeners. Spent a lot of time working in 491 00:23:18,090 --> 00:23:20,280 S2: as a court reporter. She likes to mention it. Probably 492 00:23:20,280 --> 00:23:21,629 S2: twice a day. I reckon. 493 00:23:22,020 --> 00:23:24,750 S1: Some of us have to do real journalism here. Uh. 494 00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:28,500 S2: But. Yes. No. Sadly, I haven't had to go to 495 00:23:28,500 --> 00:23:30,209 S2: a small town and look at a murder yet. Um, 496 00:23:30,210 --> 00:23:32,129 S2: perhaps one day. But, yeah, I don't know. Does it 497 00:23:32,130 --> 00:23:34,050 S2: speak to your time as a court reporter? 498 00:23:34,050 --> 00:23:37,109 S1: Look, no, not really, because I think and I think 499 00:23:37,109 --> 00:23:39,750 S1: Riley Keefe is good at this, but her character, which 500 00:23:39,750 --> 00:23:41,970 S1: is based on the real author of the book, gets 501 00:23:41,970 --> 00:23:43,800 S1: away with so much in this. And I think she's 502 00:23:43,800 --> 00:23:47,760 S1: ever held ethically or morally culpable for what she does, 503 00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:51,119 S1: which is hanging out with teenagers kind of really get 504 00:23:51,119 --> 00:23:53,190 S1: involved in a police case, and. 505 00:23:53,730 --> 00:23:55,530 S2: She does acid with a 14 year old boy. 506 00:23:55,560 --> 00:23:58,800 S1: She drops acid, which I sleeping over with him? Uh, yeah. 507 00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:04,409 S1: She's sleeping over with him. Um, she's kind of misleading 508 00:24:04,410 --> 00:24:07,410 S1: the cops, um, influencing the kids to kind of what 509 00:24:07,410 --> 00:24:11,640 S1: testimony they give. And to me, the show just really 510 00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:14,640 S1: let her off and didn't really examine the role she 511 00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:17,010 S1: was playing, which I thought she was completely out of 512 00:24:17,010 --> 00:24:18,540 S1: line in a lot of the way she did. And 513 00:24:18,540 --> 00:24:19,860 S1: what was she getting out of this? She was getting 514 00:24:19,859 --> 00:24:22,199 S1: a book. She was working on. And the show at 515 00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:24,359 S1: one point shows the New York Times ad for the 516 00:24:24,359 --> 00:24:26,490 S1: book that's coming out, and you can't help but feel 517 00:24:26,490 --> 00:24:29,939 S1: that she's capitalizing on this crime so much. But the 518 00:24:29,940 --> 00:24:32,700 S1: show doesn't really hold her to account for for this. Meg, 519 00:24:32,700 --> 00:24:33,930 S1: what did you like her character? 520 00:24:34,350 --> 00:24:37,620 S3: I'm not sure how I was supposed to feel about her, 521 00:24:37,619 --> 00:24:41,970 S3: because everything that was presented to me, like she seemed 522 00:24:41,970 --> 00:24:46,050 S3: like a bad writer. Even when she's entering the town, 523 00:24:46,050 --> 00:24:49,470 S3: she's got this, like, book full of notes saying like, 524 00:24:49,470 --> 00:24:52,649 S3: it's a terrible story. She's jumping on this thing without 525 00:24:52,650 --> 00:24:55,949 S3: any real direction or ethical guidance or sense of what 526 00:24:55,950 --> 00:25:01,020 S3: she's doing. She's ruining this actual like, police case of murder. 527 00:25:01,020 --> 00:25:04,380 S3: It all seems really critical in a way that it 528 00:25:04,380 --> 00:25:07,919 S3: didn't ever seem to really like. It felt like I 529 00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:09,990 S3: was supposed to be rooting for her when she's just, 530 00:25:09,990 --> 00:25:12,540 S3: you know, making a mess of the situation and for 531 00:25:12,540 --> 00:25:15,030 S3: pretty poor results. I mean, the stuff that she says 532 00:25:15,030 --> 00:25:16,950 S3: into her voice recorder that's supposed to be these, like, 533 00:25:16,950 --> 00:25:20,280 S3: very insightful notes. It's terrible. It's so terrible. 534 00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:22,140 S1: The whole idea of the voice recorder when she's sitting 535 00:25:22,140 --> 00:25:24,840 S1: at the cafe speaking to it, I mean, can you 536 00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:26,400 S1: imagine doing that? I know that. 537 00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:29,070 S2: That felt like a bit cringe. I thought Riley was 538 00:25:29,070 --> 00:25:31,050 S2: pretty good, though. I like Riley. I mean, we love 539 00:25:31,050 --> 00:25:32,160 S2: Elvis's family. 540 00:25:32,460 --> 00:25:34,920 S1: Yeah, I think she did what she could with a 541 00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:39,330 S1: script that we love Elvis's family, but I think she 542 00:25:39,330 --> 00:25:42,300 S1: did what she could with a script that probably made 543 00:25:42,300 --> 00:25:43,169 S1: her character pretty. 544 00:25:43,170 --> 00:25:46,139 S3: Two D it kind of feels it feels like what 545 00:25:46,140 --> 00:25:47,909 S3: you were saying before. I agree that the show is 546 00:25:47,910 --> 00:25:50,760 S3: really spread thin across a lot of people, and what 547 00:25:50,760 --> 00:25:53,640 S3: the most interesting part is, is actually these young girls, 548 00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:55,680 S3: and it needed more time to focus on them. But 549 00:25:55,680 --> 00:25:57,780 S3: the show was kind of sold by its big stars. 550 00:25:57,780 --> 00:26:00,000 S3: You've got Lily Gladstone, you've got Riley Keough, so you 551 00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:02,129 S3: want to make the most of them. But that feels 552 00:26:02,130 --> 00:26:05,250 S3: really not ideal for the story. That is the most 553 00:26:05,250 --> 00:26:06,869 S3: interesting in the plot, which I think makes it a 554 00:26:06,869 --> 00:26:07,590 S3: bit scattered. 555 00:26:07,590 --> 00:26:10,440 S1: Yeah, totally. And there is this relationship between Riley and 556 00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:13,320 S1: Lily Thomas. You mentioned that you like seeing Lily Gladstone 557 00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:16,859 S1: in her first role since, um, killers of the Flower Moon, 558 00:26:16,859 --> 00:26:19,410 S1: which we probably all think Osman is sitting at home 559 00:26:19,410 --> 00:26:22,020 S1: watching on repeat right now, as she is really good 560 00:26:22,020 --> 00:26:24,689 S1: playing Molly, and I think we all agree, deserved to 561 00:26:24,690 --> 00:26:26,280 S1: win the Oscar for that role, but lost out to 562 00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:28,350 S1: Emma Stone. I thought she was really good in this. 563 00:26:28,350 --> 00:26:32,070 S1: I thought again, I think she plays understated really well. 564 00:26:32,070 --> 00:26:34,500 S1: I think she I think Riley can overact in a 565 00:26:34,500 --> 00:26:37,290 S1: way with the emotions, but Lily has this pared back 566 00:26:37,290 --> 00:26:40,320 S1: kind of thing where she can give a lot, but 567 00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:42,719 S1: not in an obvious way. I really liked her as 568 00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:45,300 S1: this detective, and I wanted more of her and could 569 00:26:45,300 --> 00:26:47,400 S1: have almost done with less Riley and cut off some 570 00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:49,740 S1: of the other issues, and had her as a real 571 00:26:49,740 --> 00:26:52,350 S1: kind of more of a lead character in this. Did 572 00:26:52,350 --> 00:26:53,400 S1: you think she did good? 573 00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:55,020 S2: Yeah, I think no, I think she was good. Like, 574 00:26:55,020 --> 00:26:58,199 S2: she's obviously a good actress. Um, obviously, in case she's listening. 575 00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:00,419 S2: Well done, Lily, but no, I think it's more just like, 576 00:27:00,420 --> 00:27:03,360 S2: I think I'm just personally curious, like, about. I just 577 00:27:03,359 --> 00:27:05,580 S2: find it interesting about, like, the decision making process for 578 00:27:05,580 --> 00:27:07,649 S2: someone like Lily Gladstone when you've, like, come off a 579 00:27:07,650 --> 00:27:10,200 S2: massive movie where also that that movie was, like, really 580 00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:12,570 S2: about her killers of the Flower Moon. She's like, she 581 00:27:12,570 --> 00:27:14,430 S2: dominates it. It goes for like seven hours and she's 582 00:27:14,430 --> 00:27:16,830 S2: like on screen for six hours and 50 minutes, whereas 583 00:27:16,830 --> 00:27:19,290 S2: then like this, I just found it interesting because it's 584 00:27:19,290 --> 00:27:22,050 S2: not a really like maybe on on the page she 585 00:27:22,050 --> 00:27:23,850 S2: was like, this is going to be like a super 586 00:27:23,850 --> 00:27:26,340 S2: buzzy project. I don't know, like it has got buzz, 587 00:27:26,340 --> 00:27:28,260 S2: but I don't know if for her it was like 588 00:27:28,260 --> 00:27:30,480 S2: such a great showcase of her talents, even though she 589 00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:32,520 S2: is good in it. Um, so I just thought that 590 00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:34,920 S2: was kind of an interesting, like sideways move for her 591 00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:37,139 S2: career wise. And I wonder if she's kind of like 592 00:27:37,140 --> 00:27:39,990 S2: sitting somewhere with her agents being like, hmm, well, like, 593 00:27:39,990 --> 00:27:42,510 S2: we did that and like, probably like won't rush into another, 594 00:27:42,510 --> 00:27:45,689 S2: you know, like TV project. But I thought generally, you know, 595 00:27:45,900 --> 00:27:48,270 S2: they were good together. I actually thought, like, there were 596 00:27:48,270 --> 00:27:51,570 S2: some things this show did which were at least interesting, like, um, 597 00:27:51,570 --> 00:27:54,030 S2: you know, there is a obviously we spoke about Rina being, 598 00:27:54,030 --> 00:27:56,129 S2: you know, like the children of these Indian immigrants and 599 00:27:56,130 --> 00:27:57,930 S2: Jehovah's Witnesses, and we do get like a kind of 600 00:27:57,930 --> 00:28:00,420 S2: sandwiched in the middle, like a bottle episode that tells 601 00:28:00,420 --> 00:28:02,550 S2: the story of her parents meeting. And it's basically a 602 00:28:02,550 --> 00:28:05,490 S2: complete flashback episode, um, watching her dad, you know, like, 603 00:28:05,490 --> 00:28:08,640 S2: migrate to Canada and being kind of like, uh, he's 604 00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:11,280 S2: not a Jehovah's Witness, but he gets like, sucked into, 605 00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:13,859 S2: you know, the community there. And then he meets Rina's mother, 606 00:28:13,859 --> 00:28:15,540 S2: and it's like a full flashback episode, which I thought 607 00:28:15,540 --> 00:28:18,330 S2: was interesting. Like, again, that part of that was like, 608 00:28:18,330 --> 00:28:20,160 S2: I can see what the show is doing. Like it's 609 00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:23,280 S2: it's like taking a format that has been done successfully 610 00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:25,320 S2: elsewhere and just kind of like transplanting it. I don't 611 00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:27,330 S2: know if it works, but I was like, oh, props 612 00:28:27,330 --> 00:28:28,590 S2: for trying. Yeah. 613 00:28:28,590 --> 00:28:31,320 S1: What did you think about Lili Meg? Because in some 614 00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:34,590 S1: ways this isn't a whodunit, because you do know whodunit 615 00:28:34,590 --> 00:28:37,020 S1: pretty early on. So the role of the detective is 616 00:28:37,020 --> 00:28:40,230 S1: a bit of a different one to your conventional crime drama. 617 00:28:40,230 --> 00:28:42,210 S1: Were you happy with the amount of Lily you got 618 00:28:42,210 --> 00:28:42,810 S1: in this show? 619 00:28:42,810 --> 00:28:44,640 S3: Yeah, I suppose it would have been nice to see 620 00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:47,100 S3: a little more. And I agree that she was a 621 00:28:47,100 --> 00:28:53,070 S3: stronger character than Riley Keough's journalist. I suppose a comparison 622 00:28:53,070 --> 00:28:54,900 S3: is Kate Winslet in Mare of Easttown, and that was 623 00:28:54,900 --> 00:28:57,360 S3: kind of seen her. That was seen as her stepping 624 00:28:57,360 --> 00:29:00,209 S3: out onto the small screen, having a big role in 625 00:29:00,210 --> 00:29:03,180 S3: a different way. So it could have been that Lily 626 00:29:03,180 --> 00:29:04,650 S3: was shooting for that kind of thing. It also could 627 00:29:04,650 --> 00:29:06,570 S3: have been that she shot this before killers, or at 628 00:29:06,570 --> 00:29:08,550 S3: the same time as killers, like, yeah, who knows how 629 00:29:08,550 --> 00:29:10,740 S3: these things work? Um, I don't think it was a 630 00:29:10,770 --> 00:29:13,170 S3: poor use of her talent, though. I think she does 631 00:29:13,170 --> 00:29:18,240 S3: this kind of silent stoicism quite well. She's got a 632 00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:21,800 S3: real sense of righteousness and. Doing the right thing. It 633 00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:24,650 S3: would be nice to see her in different kinds of roles, 634 00:29:24,650 --> 00:29:27,290 S3: because obviously those are qualities that are pretty similar to 635 00:29:27,290 --> 00:29:30,140 S3: her character in killers of the Flower Moon. And I 636 00:29:30,140 --> 00:29:36,110 S3: think it's often easy to cast this, you know, such 637 00:29:36,110 --> 00:29:39,380 S3: talented indigenous actress with the same kind of thing over 638 00:29:39,380 --> 00:29:41,780 S3: and over again, because she does it well. But, you know, 639 00:29:41,780 --> 00:29:43,550 S3: she's a very talented actress. I'm sure she can do 640 00:29:43,550 --> 00:29:45,080 S3: loads of different things. It would have been nice to 641 00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:46,310 S3: see a bit more range as well. 642 00:29:46,310 --> 00:29:48,200 S1: And did you guys go down the rabbit hole of 643 00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:50,810 S1: this one into. Because I did find myself on this 644 00:29:50,810 --> 00:29:54,740 S1: case looking up where the real life killers were at. Um, 645 00:29:54,740 --> 00:29:57,500 S1: did you guys do the research before you watched it 646 00:29:57,500 --> 00:29:59,240 S1: or after you watched it? Or have you gone down 647 00:29:59,240 --> 00:29:59,990 S1: that rabbit hole? 648 00:29:59,990 --> 00:30:03,020 S2: I have gone down that rabbit hole. Um, obviously, like, 649 00:30:03,020 --> 00:30:05,690 S2: you know, an official spoiler alert for anyone listening who 650 00:30:05,690 --> 00:30:08,090 S2: is in the middle of watching the show, but particularly 651 00:30:08,090 --> 00:30:11,959 S2: the kind of one the main young guy in it, 652 00:30:11,990 --> 00:30:15,020 S2: Warren Gorlitsky, who I think the actors from euphoria, um, 653 00:30:15,020 --> 00:30:17,630 S2: his character kind of like looking at he had a 654 00:30:17,630 --> 00:30:21,700 S2: really interesting, like post crime journey. Um, in terms of 655 00:30:21,700 --> 00:30:24,580 S2: becoming like an advocate for justice. He became quite close 656 00:30:24,580 --> 00:30:27,460 S2: with Marina Burke's family. Um, and that's, you know, it 657 00:30:27,460 --> 00:30:29,260 S2: was interesting. And then also, I watched like a I 658 00:30:29,260 --> 00:30:32,320 S2: must have been like, I don't know, today USA interview 659 00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:36,370 S2: with Joe. Um, and she, she is kind of exactly 660 00:30:36,370 --> 00:30:38,290 S2: what you would imagine her to be. But yeah, I 661 00:30:38,290 --> 00:30:40,270 S2: guess and you know, back to, I guess, the original 662 00:30:40,270 --> 00:30:42,730 S2: point of what is the appeal of these types of 663 00:30:42,730 --> 00:30:45,430 S2: projects that also I think is like big for me, 664 00:30:45,430 --> 00:30:49,420 S2: getting to do the post show like Wikipedia and Google 665 00:30:49,420 --> 00:30:51,790 S2: until you like, read every single piece of like information 666 00:30:51,790 --> 00:30:53,530 S2: out there about what happened to these people. I do 667 00:30:53,530 --> 00:30:55,090 S2: think that's like always fun. 668 00:30:55,270 --> 00:30:57,670 S1: Yeah, it kind of troubled me a bit. These kids 669 00:30:57,670 --> 00:31:00,760 S1: were so young. As the show makes a real point 670 00:31:00,760 --> 00:31:04,810 S1: of expressing when when this incident happened, that then to 671 00:31:04,810 --> 00:31:08,800 S1: fictionalize it. You do wonder about the real life consequences 672 00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:11,590 S1: on their life going forward. I mean, we have seen 673 00:31:11,590 --> 00:31:14,410 S1: how some people like Anna Delphi, of course, has capitalized 674 00:31:14,410 --> 00:31:17,080 S1: on the fame that a Netflix series did, but hers 675 00:31:17,080 --> 00:31:19,600 S1: was obviously a very different case, and people had a 676 00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:24,100 S1: different relationship to what she did to to these kids. Um, Meg, 677 00:31:24,100 --> 00:31:26,050 S1: I know earlier you were saying that was part of 678 00:31:26,050 --> 00:31:29,590 S1: your concern about these shows that are based on real events. 679 00:31:29,590 --> 00:31:31,690 S1: Have you gone and done all your research on on 680 00:31:31,690 --> 00:31:33,310 S1: what happened to the real characters? 681 00:31:33,940 --> 00:31:35,770 S3: Um, I wouldn't say I've gone and done my research. 682 00:31:35,770 --> 00:31:38,830 S3: I've done just enough research to have this conversation because 683 00:31:38,830 --> 00:31:41,410 S3: I only watched the first three episodes, which don't really 684 00:31:41,410 --> 00:31:45,580 S3: give you a full understanding of whodunit. Exactly. Um, so 685 00:31:45,580 --> 00:31:48,970 S3: I know the outlines of what happened, but not, you know, 686 00:31:48,970 --> 00:31:51,940 S3: the full characterizations or interviews they did after or their 687 00:31:51,940 --> 00:31:53,170 S3: whole life. Are you going to keep. 688 00:31:53,170 --> 00:31:53,920 S1: Going with it? 689 00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:57,880 S3: Yeah, I think I will. Um, yeah, I definitely will. 690 00:31:57,880 --> 00:31:59,740 S3: I don't know if I'll then do all the research, 691 00:31:59,740 --> 00:32:02,950 S3: but I think it's a worthwhile show to jump into 692 00:32:02,950 --> 00:32:03,790 S3: and see all the way through. 693 00:32:03,790 --> 00:32:07,060 S1: Yeah. Good mix. After you've watched like 15 episodes of Taskmaster. 694 00:32:07,120 --> 00:32:09,550 S3: Yeah, maybe. The comparison is quite harsh for me as well. 695 00:32:09,550 --> 00:32:11,890 S3: I'm like, what a show. Prestige television. 696 00:32:20,140 --> 00:32:22,960 S1: From a real life story to a fictional one. Let's 697 00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:24,850 S1: move on to Presumed Innocent. 698 00:32:25,660 --> 00:32:27,100 S7: I just want to make sure that we have everything 699 00:32:27,100 --> 00:32:28,030 S7: exactly right. 700 00:32:28,210 --> 00:32:29,260 S8: Let's get started. 701 00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:33,520 S7: You aware that Carolyn Palamas was murdered? When was the 702 00:32:33,520 --> 00:32:35,080 S7: last time you were in Carolyn's apartment? 703 00:32:35,530 --> 00:32:38,590 S9: Uh, we had cases together. Sometimes we would work after 704 00:32:38,590 --> 00:32:39,730 S9: hours at her apartment. 705 00:32:40,420 --> 00:32:43,900 S7: Your fingerprints were found in her bedroom. Were you and 706 00:32:43,900 --> 00:32:47,980 S7: Karolina romantically involved? 707 00:32:53,070 --> 00:32:54,180 S8: My suspect. 708 00:32:54,870 --> 00:32:56,490 S9: Because I did not kill her. 709 00:32:57,540 --> 00:33:00,180 S1: Three apps are out now on Apple TV. This is 710 00:33:00,180 --> 00:33:03,720 S1: based on Scott Turlough's best selling 1986 legal whodunit of 711 00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:06,270 S1: the same name, which has already been adapted for screen 712 00:33:06,270 --> 00:33:11,790 S1: in 1990. Wow, starring Harrison Ford and our own Greta. Sacha. 713 00:33:11,820 --> 00:33:14,550 S1: Had you guys seen this movie? I had not seen it. 714 00:33:14,550 --> 00:33:17,220 S1: So I went into the TV show knowing nothing about 715 00:33:17,220 --> 00:33:20,459 S1: the plot. But I know the many people adored the film. 716 00:33:20,610 --> 00:33:21,209 S1: Had you watched it? 717 00:33:21,210 --> 00:33:24,480 S2: I've never said no. I hadn't seen it. And I'm like, yeah, 718 00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:27,690 S2: I'm curious because I'm so into this show now. So 719 00:33:27,690 --> 00:33:29,640 S2: I like don't want any spoilers from anybody. 720 00:33:29,670 --> 00:33:30,330 S1: What about you, Meg? 721 00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:33,540 S3: I, I hadn't seen it. I'd heard of it, obviously. 722 00:33:33,540 --> 00:33:35,640 S3: And I know that, yeah, people really hold it in 723 00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:38,700 S3: high respect. After I watched the first couple of episodes 724 00:33:38,700 --> 00:33:42,959 S3: of the TV show, I went and watched the movie. Um, 725 00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:44,790 S3: I've watched three quarters of the movie and googled the 726 00:33:44,790 --> 00:33:47,940 S3: last bit of the plot, which is very important. And look, 727 00:33:47,940 --> 00:33:50,969 S3: I had to go to sleep. I'm sick. But, um, 728 00:33:50,970 --> 00:33:53,430 S3: it was really interesting to compare the two and compare 729 00:33:53,430 --> 00:33:56,880 S3: the performances with Jake Gyllenhaal and Harrison Ford, which are 730 00:33:56,880 --> 00:34:00,120 S3: very different. Compare the story, different treatments of the story, 731 00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:04,830 S3: particularly its treatment of women, which it is. Um, yeah, 732 00:34:04,830 --> 00:34:05,730 S3: we can talk about. 733 00:34:05,730 --> 00:34:08,430 S1: Yes, I would love to. Well, that is really interesting. Um, 734 00:34:08,430 --> 00:34:11,370 S1: so the miniseries is created by David E Kelley, who 735 00:34:11,370 --> 00:34:14,219 S1: we know loves legal shows. He was behind Big Little Lies, 736 00:34:14,219 --> 00:34:17,820 S1: Boston Legal, ally McBeal, my favorite. Um. The miniseries stars 737 00:34:17,820 --> 00:34:21,420 S1: Jake Gyllenhaal as a prosecutor who becomes the prime suspect 738 00:34:21,420 --> 00:34:23,640 S1: in the murder of one of his colleagues. Carolyn. There's 739 00:34:23,640 --> 00:34:27,660 S1: some really great, um, uh, supporting roles here Bill camp 740 00:34:27,660 --> 00:34:32,129 S1: and Peter Sarsgaard, um, who are in the prosecutor's office, 741 00:34:32,130 --> 00:34:35,609 S1: Peter Sarsgaard in real life, Jake Gyllenhaal's brother in law. 742 00:34:35,610 --> 00:34:39,600 S1: So there you go. Fun little fun little addition. Um, Meg, 743 00:34:39,600 --> 00:34:42,480 S1: what did you make of the show? And having also 744 00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:46,140 S1: gone back and watched the movie, which one do you prefer? 745 00:34:46,440 --> 00:34:50,759 S3: Um, I really prefer the TV show a lot. Um, 746 00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:56,820 S3: it's so juicy and pulpy. You know, sometimes I kind 747 00:34:56,820 --> 00:35:00,209 S3: of catch myself feeling bad for enjoying it so much. 748 00:35:00,210 --> 00:35:03,719 S3: There's quite a lot of explicit, leering shots of, you know, 749 00:35:03,719 --> 00:35:07,950 S3: Carolyn's dead body and these throwback scenes of when they 750 00:35:07,950 --> 00:35:11,040 S3: were having sex. And it's just like it's made to 751 00:35:11,040 --> 00:35:13,290 S3: be quite deliberately juicy in that way, but it really 752 00:35:13,290 --> 00:35:16,980 S3: hooks you as well. Like Jake Gyllenhaal's performance is out 753 00:35:16,980 --> 00:35:21,239 S3: of control. He is sweating, he is manic. Um, love 754 00:35:21,239 --> 00:35:24,180 S3: that for him. He's such a good actor when he's 755 00:35:24,180 --> 00:35:27,419 S3: allowed to just go full crazy, like, I mean, anyone 756 00:35:27,420 --> 00:35:29,580 S3: who's seen him in that role in October knows just 757 00:35:29,580 --> 00:35:33,959 S3: how crazy he can go. Um, I loved that. It's just. Yeah, 758 00:35:33,960 --> 00:35:36,330 S3: there's great political intrigue with him in the kind of 759 00:35:36,330 --> 00:35:39,029 S3: district attorney's office, which doesn't sound interesting, but is in 760 00:35:39,030 --> 00:35:42,839 S3: the context. Um, and I particularly love that this TV 761 00:35:42,840 --> 00:35:46,800 S3: version allows for a lot more scope of what's happening 762 00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:50,160 S3: in his home life. So, I mean, he's had this 763 00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:53,219 S3: affair with his co-worker. She's then died. It goes on 764 00:35:53,219 --> 00:35:56,669 S3: from there. But in the movie, there's not much scope 765 00:35:56,670 --> 00:36:00,600 S3: given to his wife to have much direct input on 766 00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:02,610 S3: how that's affected their home life, or how this ongoing 767 00:36:02,640 --> 00:36:05,430 S3: court case will kind of explode their lives. And that's 768 00:36:05,430 --> 00:36:08,100 S3: such a big part of the show and causes so 769 00:36:08,100 --> 00:36:09,810 S3: much anguish in Gyllenhaal's character. 770 00:36:09,810 --> 00:36:12,390 S1: Yeah, I've only watched, so there's only three apps out 771 00:36:12,390 --> 00:36:14,280 S1: at the moment on Apple TV, and they're releasing it 772 00:36:14,280 --> 00:36:17,490 S1: week by week. I really like this show. I don't 773 00:36:17,489 --> 00:36:19,500 S1: think it's gonna like, is it the best show that's 774 00:36:19,500 --> 00:36:21,569 S1: ever made? I don't think so, but it is so 775 00:36:21,570 --> 00:36:25,800 S1: enjoyable to watch. I think the episodes all have amazing, like, 776 00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:30,629 S1: cliffhanger notes. I think it's so like polished and sleek. Um, 777 00:36:30,630 --> 00:36:32,460 S1: it reminds me a bit of anatomy of a scandal. 778 00:36:32,460 --> 00:36:34,770 S1: It's got a Big Little Lies vibe, like you're in 779 00:36:34,770 --> 00:36:38,700 S1: the circle of the rich and the powerful here, and 780 00:36:38,700 --> 00:36:42,360 S1: you're watching how that powers wielded by everyone, um, there's 781 00:36:42,360 --> 00:36:47,310 S1: personal politics, there's office politics. There's obviously a brutal crime. Um, 782 00:36:47,310 --> 00:36:49,620 S1: given I haven't watched the movie, I do find, like, 783 00:36:49,620 --> 00:36:52,650 S1: I don't know which way the show is going to go, 784 00:36:52,650 --> 00:36:55,049 S1: which is keeping me on the edge of my seat. 785 00:36:55,050 --> 00:36:56,700 S1: Whereas I feel like if you'd watch the movie and 786 00:36:56,700 --> 00:36:57,840 S1: you kind of know how it's going to play out, 787 00:36:57,840 --> 00:37:00,900 S1: you'd have a very different experience watching this. But, um, 788 00:37:00,900 --> 00:37:04,590 S1: I think it's really a watchable, enjoyable show. Thomas, have 789 00:37:04,590 --> 00:37:05,550 S1: you binged this? 790 00:37:05,550 --> 00:37:08,790 S2: Uh, I, I've seen all the episodes that are out. Um, 791 00:37:09,060 --> 00:37:12,420 S2: the supporting cast is really good and like. Yeah, it's 792 00:37:12,420 --> 00:37:15,420 S2: like it's a very uncomfortable watch, like made kind of 793 00:37:15,420 --> 00:37:17,850 S2: touched on it. The family element is such a big 794 00:37:17,850 --> 00:37:20,219 S2: part of this. Like obviously, you know, this isn't really 795 00:37:20,219 --> 00:37:22,440 S2: a spoiler, but you know, he's had this explicit affair 796 00:37:22,440 --> 00:37:24,930 S2: with his colleague and, and we kind of pick up 797 00:37:24,930 --> 00:37:27,840 S2: in the first episode when his wife there in the 798 00:37:27,840 --> 00:37:29,460 S2: aftermath of it and they're kind of patching their lives 799 00:37:29,460 --> 00:37:31,710 S2: back together. And then all of this stuff gets dropped in, 800 00:37:31,710 --> 00:37:33,660 S2: which makes it very clear that, in fact, you know, 801 00:37:33,660 --> 00:37:36,330 S2: the affair is not over and has been continuing. And 802 00:37:36,330 --> 00:37:40,410 S2: and it's almost like that element, too, is so difficult 803 00:37:40,410 --> 00:37:44,549 S2: to watch because you're watching this guy, he's like almost 804 00:37:44,550 --> 00:37:46,740 S2: playing whack a mole, trying to like, patch the different 805 00:37:46,739 --> 00:37:48,900 S2: holes in his life. And then you add into that, 806 00:37:48,900 --> 00:37:50,969 S2: like when when things start to unfold and he becomes, 807 00:37:50,969 --> 00:37:53,550 S2: you know, the center of this crime. It is it's 808 00:37:53,550 --> 00:37:56,280 S2: an anxious watch. Um, which often doesn't sound like a 809 00:37:56,280 --> 00:37:58,529 S2: fun time, but it still makes for a gripping kind 810 00:37:58,530 --> 00:38:01,950 S2: of viewing. Yeah, I again, this to me feels like 811 00:38:01,950 --> 00:38:04,649 S2: a show that is very considered in terms of like, okay, 812 00:38:04,650 --> 00:38:07,590 S2: what does it take to be a crime drama that 813 00:38:07,590 --> 00:38:09,750 S2: is going to elevate you above, you know, the rest 814 00:38:09,750 --> 00:38:11,760 S2: of the many, many crime dramas? And I feel like 815 00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:14,670 S2: this really has it, like particularly with the politics of 816 00:38:14,670 --> 00:38:17,969 S2: the DA's office. Again, we join, I guess, the show 817 00:38:17,969 --> 00:38:20,370 S2: when there's like a political race to be head of 818 00:38:20,370 --> 00:38:23,219 S2: the Da. And, um, you know, Jake Gyllenhaal's character is 819 00:38:23,219 --> 00:38:26,730 S2: kind of wedded to the outgoing Da. And so there's 820 00:38:26,730 --> 00:38:28,529 S2: like a political element there. And yeah, I just feel 821 00:38:28,530 --> 00:38:31,830 S2: like it's it's very much a well-rounded show. And it is, 822 00:38:31,830 --> 00:38:35,760 S2: of course like a crime drama. But that's not exactly 823 00:38:35,760 --> 00:38:37,919 S2: all it's offering, even though, you know, it does get 824 00:38:37,920 --> 00:38:39,510 S2: very graphic and it. 825 00:38:39,510 --> 00:38:41,759 S1: Is quite a graphic show. And this is Jake's first 826 00:38:41,760 --> 00:38:45,989 S1: small screen leading role. I thought he was very good. 827 00:38:46,080 --> 00:38:49,080 S1: I thought he was. He stole the show in all 828 00:38:49,080 --> 00:38:52,560 S1: the ways. Um, I, he brings and my heart, of 829 00:38:52,560 --> 00:38:55,770 S1: course he brings what? Um, he's so good at doing 830 00:38:55,770 --> 00:38:59,969 S1: that kind of dark, mysterious, broody, kind of slightly unhinged 831 00:38:59,969 --> 00:39:04,530 S1: character that stole Taylor's scarf, um, from movies. He brings 832 00:39:04,530 --> 00:39:08,430 S1: that to this role so perfectly. Did. What did you 833 00:39:08,430 --> 00:39:09,450 S1: make of Jake? Meg? 834 00:39:09,450 --> 00:39:13,380 S3: Yeah. I thought he was incredible. I mean, he's got that. Yeah, really. 835 00:39:13,380 --> 00:39:16,890 S3: Manic face is bulging eyes. I love a really beautiful 836 00:39:16,890 --> 00:39:20,040 S3: pretty boy who's not afraid to be ugly in every way. 837 00:39:20,040 --> 00:39:22,770 S3: It makes the best viewing. Like this is a man 838 00:39:22,770 --> 00:39:25,170 S3: who could have just been doing rom coms his entire career, 839 00:39:25,170 --> 00:39:27,360 S3: but he is doing the weirdest stuff in film. I 840 00:39:27,360 --> 00:39:29,100 S3: can't wait to see what he does on TV. Yeah, yeah. 841 00:39:29,100 --> 00:39:33,330 S1: He really does that slightly kinda unhinged thing, so. Well, yeah. 842 00:39:33,330 --> 00:39:34,890 S2: Although that being said, I don't know if either of 843 00:39:34,890 --> 00:39:38,010 S2: you guys watch Roadhouse. He's like most recent film, which. 844 00:39:38,010 --> 00:39:40,020 S3: Was I've been meaning to I've been meaning, oh my God, 845 00:39:40,050 --> 00:39:40,230 S3: is it. 846 00:39:40,230 --> 00:39:43,200 S2: Good? It's so bad. Like it's like it's a remake 847 00:39:43,200 --> 00:39:44,970 S2: of the Patrick Swayze film. It's like. I think it's 848 00:39:44,969 --> 00:39:47,040 S2: an Amazon film. I watched it mostly because, like, Conor 849 00:39:47,040 --> 00:39:49,200 S2: McGregor is in it. I was curious to see like 850 00:39:49,200 --> 00:39:51,420 S2: him acting. It was it was bad as I imagined. 851 00:39:51,420 --> 00:39:53,430 S2: But Roadhouse again, like, I don't know why I'm so 852 00:39:53,430 --> 00:39:56,549 S2: obsessed with people's IMDb profiles today, but like, such a 853 00:39:56,550 --> 00:39:58,890 S2: bad movie. Yeah. It's like, yeah. 854 00:39:58,890 --> 00:40:00,570 S1: Oh, that's a shame I didn't. I watched that one 855 00:40:00,570 --> 00:40:03,270 S1: on Netflix where he plays the ambulance responder and it's 856 00:40:03,270 --> 00:40:06,000 S1: so intense. It's just like an hour of him kind 857 00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:08,700 S1: of making big eye faces. Um, it was kind of 858 00:40:08,700 --> 00:40:09,989 S1: quite claustrophobic. 859 00:40:09,989 --> 00:40:12,000 S2: Yeah. He's actually got, like, a really good body of work. 860 00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:13,590 S2: Have you guys seen prisoners? Like, that's like one of 861 00:40:13,590 --> 00:40:14,670 S2: my all time favorite films. 862 00:40:14,670 --> 00:40:15,660 S1: Zodiac. Yeah. 863 00:40:15,660 --> 00:40:16,170 S2: Zodiac. 864 00:40:16,170 --> 00:40:19,560 S1: Great. David Fincher film. Yeah. Um, well, hopefully we'll be 865 00:40:19,560 --> 00:40:23,129 S1: seeing a lot more of him. Um. You bet. Thomas, 866 00:40:23,130 --> 00:40:26,460 S1: you kind of mentioned, um, a bit earlier that, you know, 867 00:40:26,460 --> 00:40:29,339 S1: we're seeing these crime dramas aspire to be more kind 868 00:40:29,340 --> 00:40:32,940 S1: of like high art, whereas in the 90s and 2000 869 00:40:32,940 --> 00:40:34,830 S1: and Meg's still watching them, we had the kind of 870 00:40:34,830 --> 00:40:38,820 S1: CSIS and the Law and Orders and procedural series. Do 871 00:40:38,820 --> 00:40:42,120 S1: you think that, you know, the kind of talking about 872 00:40:42,120 --> 00:40:45,570 S1: David E Kelley, the Boston Legal era of crime drama 873 00:40:45,570 --> 00:40:46,380 S1: is over? 874 00:40:46,590 --> 00:40:49,469 S2: Well, I guess like yes and no. It's funny because 875 00:40:49,469 --> 00:40:52,500 S2: David E Kelley, like, he both did like the Boston Legal, 876 00:40:52,500 --> 00:40:54,390 S2: which is, you know, that kind of I mean, that 877 00:40:54,390 --> 00:40:57,630 S2: was more of a comedy ish, but that serial show. 878 00:40:57,630 --> 00:40:59,220 S2: And then he also did Big Little Lies and pretty 879 00:40:59,219 --> 00:41:01,230 S2: sure he wrote that. So I mean, he's kind of 880 00:41:01,230 --> 00:41:03,060 S2: got a foot in both camps, but I do think, 881 00:41:03,060 --> 00:41:06,870 S2: you know, we had last year NCIS Sydney premiered. So like, 882 00:41:06,870 --> 00:41:09,839 S2: that level still exists. And there are people like, I 883 00:41:09,840 --> 00:41:10,830 S2: just got back from New York. I don't know if 884 00:41:10,830 --> 00:41:12,989 S2: you guys know, but, um, like, there, you know, you 885 00:41:12,989 --> 00:41:14,640 S2: see so many billboards for shows over there and it's 886 00:41:14,640 --> 00:41:18,089 S2: still like CSI season 5000 or whatever. Like it's still 887 00:41:18,090 --> 00:41:21,180 S2: kind of going on, but it's just like there has 888 00:41:21,180 --> 00:41:23,700 S2: been this massive division now where it's like those shows 889 00:41:23,700 --> 00:41:25,950 S2: exist for some people and whatever, and we'll keep making them. 890 00:41:25,950 --> 00:41:27,270 S2: And if you want to keep watching them, like they'll 891 00:41:27,270 --> 00:41:30,779 S2: always be there. But now it is like this kind 892 00:41:30,780 --> 00:41:32,730 S2: of elevation. It's like we've got the, you know, top 893 00:41:32,730 --> 00:41:36,150 S2: subscriber tier of crime TV shows. And that's what these, 894 00:41:36,150 --> 00:41:39,030 S2: I think definitely play into. And I do think that 895 00:41:39,030 --> 00:41:41,460 S2: that's a format that's been kind of like molded by 896 00:41:41,460 --> 00:41:44,279 S2: like the mayors of East Sound the night of what 897 00:41:44,280 --> 00:41:46,799 S2: was the other HBO one rerun, This city or whatever. Like, 898 00:41:46,800 --> 00:41:49,830 S2: like it's become a genre, like an offshoot of the 899 00:41:49,830 --> 00:41:52,410 S2: original genre where, you know, you got to have like, 900 00:41:52,410 --> 00:41:55,560 S2: probably like a really small town. You've got to explore 901 00:41:55,560 --> 00:41:57,390 S2: the politics of that small town. There's got to be 902 00:41:57,390 --> 00:42:00,180 S2: like racial and gender issues explored, like it's got it. 903 00:42:00,180 --> 00:42:01,950 S1: You've got cast members. Yeah. 904 00:42:01,950 --> 00:42:04,140 S2: And it's like and a similar thing with like, you know, 905 00:42:04,140 --> 00:42:06,930 S2: we talk about so much how True Detective like redefined 906 00:42:06,930 --> 00:42:08,850 S2: TV and stuff. I do think all of those have 907 00:42:08,850 --> 00:42:12,060 S2: kind of come together to like, give us this new 908 00:42:12,060 --> 00:42:14,520 S2: version of crime drama. And if you really, you know, 909 00:42:14,520 --> 00:42:16,110 S2: want to get the big names and stuff, you have 910 00:42:16,110 --> 00:42:18,480 S2: to deliver a product that ticks all those boxes. 911 00:42:18,480 --> 00:42:21,719 S1: Yeah, yeah, that's a good point. Do you think crime 912 00:42:21,840 --> 00:42:24,870 S1: is to prestige these days, Meg? Do you miss the 913 00:42:24,870 --> 00:42:26,700 S1: kind of old school pay? Meg. Yeah. 914 00:42:27,239 --> 00:42:30,480 S3: Well, it's interesting because shows like, you know, CSI and 915 00:42:30,480 --> 00:42:33,120 S3: Law and Order, these are still incredibly popular. Like, I 916 00:42:33,120 --> 00:42:35,760 S3: think the audience numbers would well outweigh these kind of 917 00:42:35,760 --> 00:42:38,430 S3: prestige offerings. There's a reason they're still getting pumped out 918 00:42:38,430 --> 00:42:41,760 S3: at such great pace. But I feel like this show 919 00:42:41,760 --> 00:42:44,460 S3: in particular is such a nice melding of both those worlds, 920 00:42:44,460 --> 00:42:47,730 S3: because in many ways it is just a legal procedural, 921 00:42:47,730 --> 00:42:49,500 S3: and I think eventually will be once they're kind of 922 00:42:49,500 --> 00:42:53,819 S3: in the courtroom deciding the case. And that has that tasty. 923 00:42:53,960 --> 00:42:56,810 S3: Kind of hokey way of drawing you in that these 924 00:42:56,810 --> 00:42:58,760 S3: other shows, do you know what's coming? You know, the 925 00:42:58,760 --> 00:43:02,150 S3: structure of the courtroom drama. But in the other way, 926 00:43:02,150 --> 00:43:03,770 S3: you know, it is a prestige show and that it's 927 00:43:03,770 --> 00:43:06,410 S3: got Jake Gyllenhaal's first role. It's got, you know, this 928 00:43:06,410 --> 00:43:09,410 S3: back story with the text that it's based on, which 929 00:43:09,410 --> 00:43:11,330 S3: is also big name roles. I mean, Harrison Ford in 930 00:43:11,330 --> 00:43:14,540 S3: the original, and then even then it does, you know, 931 00:43:14,540 --> 00:43:16,879 S3: the discourse that surrounds a show like this will have 932 00:43:16,880 --> 00:43:20,060 S3: those kind of broader social concerns. There's a lot of 933 00:43:20,060 --> 00:43:23,540 S3: discussion around the different ways they treat women. And, you know, 934 00:43:23,540 --> 00:43:25,130 S3: this one's not perfect as well. I feel like so 935 00:43:25,130 --> 00:43:27,109 S3: many of the old shots of Caroline, you see from 936 00:43:27,110 --> 00:43:30,319 S3: Jake Gyllenhaal's perspective is like a dead wife shot. It's like, oh, 937 00:43:30,320 --> 00:43:32,930 S3: she's so beautiful and perfect. Like, look at her in 938 00:43:32,930 --> 00:43:36,410 S3: slow motion in this bar. Yeah. Um, but compared to 939 00:43:36,410 --> 00:43:40,460 S3: the film, it's so much better. That was very much, um, 940 00:43:40,460 --> 00:43:45,110 S3: you know, you hear that this, this hard core prosecutors 941 00:43:45,110 --> 00:43:47,390 S3: being killed, and her boss finds out in the office, 942 00:43:47,390 --> 00:43:51,620 S3: and he's like a beautiful, sexy gal like that. No way. Um, 943 00:43:51,620 --> 00:43:55,100 S3: it's like, wow, you knew this woman. You're really shaken up. Um, 944 00:43:55,100 --> 00:43:58,550 S3: and particularly the way that her relationships are brought up 945 00:43:58,550 --> 00:44:02,660 S3: in the original film, she, you know, these erotic thrillers 946 00:44:02,660 --> 00:44:04,850 S3: of the 80s and 90s when any woman had any 947 00:44:04,850 --> 00:44:07,280 S3: kind of active sexual life, it was like deviant in 948 00:44:07,280 --> 00:44:11,509 S3: some way and usually ended in violence in some way. 949 00:44:11,510 --> 00:44:14,240 S3: So Caroline, in the, in the original had a lot 950 00:44:14,239 --> 00:44:17,360 S3: of sexual partners and that was kind of painted her 951 00:44:17,360 --> 00:44:19,340 S3: in a particular light. And so when people find out 952 00:44:19,340 --> 00:44:22,400 S3: about her murder, it's like, well, I suppose that's what happens. 953 00:44:22,610 --> 00:44:22,880 S3: She had. 954 00:44:22,880 --> 00:44:23,480 S1: It coming. 955 00:44:23,480 --> 00:44:26,150 S3: It's really, really bad. Yeah. So at least in this retelling, 956 00:44:26,150 --> 00:44:29,390 S3: you know, she's a human being, um, she's allowed to 957 00:44:29,390 --> 00:44:32,810 S3: have sex and not be murdered. Um, it's an interesting 958 00:44:32,810 --> 00:44:37,940 S3: retelling on that respect. But also, I'd say it's, you know, 959 00:44:37,940 --> 00:44:40,100 S3: I've heard a lot of people who've read the book 960 00:44:40,100 --> 00:44:41,960 S3: and seen the film and are now watching the TV 961 00:44:41,960 --> 00:44:44,600 S3: show and say that it actually has deviations from the 962 00:44:44,600 --> 00:44:46,730 S3: original texts in some ways, and I don't know all 963 00:44:46,730 --> 00:44:49,760 S3: of them because I haven't read the book. Um, but. 964 00:44:50,260 --> 00:44:53,020 S3: I think it's still a really interesting watch if you 965 00:44:53,020 --> 00:44:55,150 S3: have seen those things, because they're really playing with the 966 00:44:55,150 --> 00:44:59,020 S3: text and what twists you think are coming and don't come. Um, 967 00:44:59,320 --> 00:45:02,260 S3: and it may, yeah, it may surprise you. I suppose 968 00:45:02,260 --> 00:45:04,750 S3: even reviewers in the US who have seen everything but 969 00:45:04,750 --> 00:45:07,450 S3: the final episode, they don't know, you know, who actually 970 00:45:07,450 --> 00:45:09,969 S3: did the crime. So we could all be surprised. Yeah. 971 00:45:09,969 --> 00:45:13,480 S1: That's good. We'll keep you watching. Um, yeah. The even 972 00:45:13,480 --> 00:45:15,549 S1: I haven't seen the original, but it is a bit 973 00:45:15,550 --> 00:45:19,660 S1: of a weird representation still of Carolyn, the colleague who 974 00:45:19,660 --> 00:45:21,819 S1: is dead. There are some quite a lot of graphic 975 00:45:21,820 --> 00:45:24,939 S1: shots of her body and the violence against her. And 976 00:45:24,940 --> 00:45:27,520 S1: then there are a lot of kind of flashbacks to 977 00:45:27,520 --> 00:45:31,390 S1: sex scenes. Um, and then I won't say what it is, 978 00:45:31,390 --> 00:45:34,989 S1: but Jake makes a discovery about her, which also then 979 00:45:34,989 --> 00:45:38,529 S1: feeds into a different shaping of her discovery after she's 980 00:45:38,530 --> 00:45:42,070 S1: dead that affects him, that feeds into the shaping of her, um, 981 00:45:42,070 --> 00:45:45,130 S1: maybe in a way that is a bit uneasy, um, 982 00:45:45,130 --> 00:45:47,770 S1: with what they're trying to do with that discovery. But, 983 00:45:47,770 --> 00:45:49,870 S1: I mean, watching both of these shows under the bridge 984 00:45:49,870 --> 00:45:52,600 S1: and presumed innocent back to back, obviously, one is a 985 00:45:52,600 --> 00:45:55,690 S1: true story. One is a fictional. But, you know, it 986 00:45:55,690 --> 00:45:58,660 S1: is hard to ignore that so many of these shows 987 00:45:58,660 --> 00:46:03,130 S1: hinge on really awful things happening to women. 988 00:46:03,160 --> 00:46:06,250 S2: Mhm. Yeah I know it's like it's a, it's a 989 00:46:06,250 --> 00:46:10,089 S2: strange thing because it's like this kind of self-fulfilling problem 990 00:46:10,090 --> 00:46:13,540 S2: of the genre that everyone especially nowadays knows is like 991 00:46:13,810 --> 00:46:16,960 S2: not okay. And yet we can't seem to like break 992 00:46:16,960 --> 00:46:18,460 S2: the like, you look at so many of these shows 993 00:46:18,460 --> 00:46:21,460 S2: and it's just like it's always the same thing. Even like, 994 00:46:21,460 --> 00:46:23,830 S2: you know, thinking about like lots of Australian shows. The 12, 995 00:46:23,950 --> 00:46:27,010 S2: that was a really horrible crime. Like to a young girl. 996 00:46:27,010 --> 00:46:29,770 S2: Like it's it's like we we're all so self aware 997 00:46:29,770 --> 00:46:32,950 S2: that this is the formula and like the pitfalls of 998 00:46:32,950 --> 00:46:35,650 S2: that formula and yet like consistently a new show will 999 00:46:35,650 --> 00:46:37,780 S2: come out and it'll be like a young girl missing 1000 00:46:37,780 --> 00:46:39,730 S2: in a small town. Everyone's like, fuck, that looks pretty good. 1001 00:46:39,730 --> 00:46:42,130 S2: I might watch it like, I don't know. It's just like, 1002 00:46:42,280 --> 00:46:45,100 S2: how do you change that hardwiring of the genre? 1003 00:46:45,100 --> 00:46:48,160 S1: Like, yeah, make beyond these two shows. Is it kind 1004 00:46:48,160 --> 00:46:50,710 S1: of lazy plotting or is it also kind of a 1005 00:46:50,710 --> 00:46:54,040 S1: reflection of the world in which violent crimes are more 1006 00:46:54,040 --> 00:46:55,870 S1: likely to be committed against women? 1007 00:46:55,870 --> 00:46:58,120 S3: Yeah, I think that's the difficult truth. That's hard to 1008 00:46:58,120 --> 00:47:01,569 S3: avoid when you're telling these crime stories and particularly true crime, 1009 00:47:01,570 --> 00:47:04,330 S3: in that, you know, it usually is women who are 1010 00:47:04,330 --> 00:47:07,930 S3: subject to this kind of violence, and it's usually from men. Um, 1011 00:47:07,930 --> 00:47:10,390 S3: so that is hard to get away from in many respects. 1012 00:47:10,390 --> 00:47:13,600 S3: I will also shout out deadlock again, though, because that 1013 00:47:13,600 --> 00:47:16,600 S3: is based around, uh, men being murdered in a small 1014 00:47:16,600 --> 00:47:20,739 S3: town in Tasmania. So a fun spin on the genre. 1015 00:47:22,210 --> 00:47:25,509 S1: Yeah. That's, uh. Yeah, that's very true. And I mean, 1016 00:47:25,510 --> 00:47:27,730 S1: I think what is interesting about these shows, as opposed 1017 00:47:27,730 --> 00:47:31,629 S1: to other, other crime series, is that they do, to 1018 00:47:31,630 --> 00:47:34,450 S1: varying levels of success, try to hold space for the 1019 00:47:34,450 --> 00:47:38,170 S1: victims as well rounded characters. So they're not just explicitly 1020 00:47:38,170 --> 00:47:40,000 S1: a way to move the plot forward or to give 1021 00:47:40,000 --> 00:47:42,910 S1: other characters an arc. They do try to hold room 1022 00:47:42,910 --> 00:47:43,540 S1: for them. And I think. 1023 00:47:43,540 --> 00:47:46,300 S2: Especially with Under the Bridge, that even that kind of 1024 00:47:46,300 --> 00:47:49,090 S2: like very meta narrative takes place in the story where, 1025 00:47:49,090 --> 00:47:52,150 S2: like Riley Keoughs character is writing this book and she's 1026 00:47:52,150 --> 00:47:54,669 S2: kind of like more focused on the salacious details. And 1027 00:47:54,670 --> 00:47:57,609 S2: she has these, like, dealings with Rina's family, and that 1028 00:47:57,610 --> 00:48:00,070 S2: kind of then begins to shape her, I guess, like 1029 00:48:00,070 --> 00:48:02,170 S2: consideration of how much weight she needs to actually give 1030 00:48:02,170 --> 00:48:04,030 S2: to the victim. And like, you know, I think that 1031 00:48:04,030 --> 00:48:06,340 S2: that show does a pretty good job of it. But yeah, 1032 00:48:06,340 --> 00:48:08,350 S2: I mean, like you said, it is probably a sad 1033 00:48:08,350 --> 00:48:10,630 S2: reflection of the fact that this is typically how it 1034 00:48:10,630 --> 00:48:13,630 S2: tends to go. And so it's hard to like drift 1035 00:48:13,630 --> 00:48:15,580 S2: away from that source material too much, which is why 1036 00:48:15,580 --> 00:48:18,310 S2: I might just keep watching Vera on ABC, because she's 1037 00:48:18,310 --> 00:48:21,430 S2: got that funny little hat. It's always cute. Like, kind 1038 00:48:21,430 --> 00:48:23,440 S2: of like county crimes. 1039 00:48:23,440 --> 00:48:25,900 S1: You should try Father Brown to nothing like a detective 1040 00:48:25,900 --> 00:48:27,040 S1: in a in a collar. 1041 00:48:27,070 --> 00:48:28,600 S2: I see. I still, I think for me like one 1042 00:48:28,600 --> 00:48:30,790 S2: of the. And lots of people name check this. But 1043 00:48:30,790 --> 00:48:34,180 S2: have you guys seen Broadchurch? Like Broadchurch to me is like, 1044 00:48:34,180 --> 00:48:36,520 S2: you know, that's a great crime show that doesn't feel 1045 00:48:36,520 --> 00:48:39,730 S2: too like, you know, icky. 1046 00:48:39,730 --> 00:48:44,290 S3: But how do British filmmakers and TV makers make murder 1047 00:48:44,290 --> 00:48:46,239 S3: seem so cute? How does that happen? I'm not really 1048 00:48:46,239 --> 00:48:47,410 S3: well-versed in the genre. 1049 00:48:47,410 --> 00:48:49,360 S1: Yeah, I think they don't really. 1050 00:48:49,420 --> 00:48:50,920 S2: Spend a lot of time watching ABC at night. 1051 00:48:51,070 --> 00:48:56,080 S1: They they don't really show a lot of too much 1052 00:48:56,080 --> 00:48:58,660 S1: of the graphicness of the crime. And I think it's 1053 00:48:58,660 --> 00:49:02,350 S1: just the English way they're repressed, kind of their repression. 1054 00:49:02,350 --> 00:49:04,960 S1: They don't really leave room for emotion. You know, they've 1055 00:49:04,960 --> 00:49:08,770 S1: got a job to do and and they get it done. Um, also, 1056 00:49:08,770 --> 00:49:11,230 S1: I think there's something about because there's so many episodes 1057 00:49:11,230 --> 00:49:13,210 S1: in some of those BBC ones that have gone on 1058 00:49:13,210 --> 00:49:15,640 S1: for so many years, like they don't really have to 1059 00:49:15,640 --> 00:49:17,290 S1: give any emotion because, you know, it's going to be 1060 00:49:17,290 --> 00:49:19,630 S1: solved by the end of the episode. And is it. 1061 00:49:19,630 --> 00:49:21,219 S2: Happy Valley, another one that's been going on for like 1062 00:49:21,219 --> 00:49:21,940 S2: 500 years? Yeah, that's. 1063 00:49:21,940 --> 00:49:25,690 S1: Actually a really good show. I'm in shock. I can't 1064 00:49:25,690 --> 00:49:29,200 S1: believe I'm here defending British crime. Um, which that does 1065 00:49:29,200 --> 00:49:31,660 S1: kind of bring me. Uh, as I was saying, you 1066 00:49:31,660 --> 00:49:34,750 S1: can go back and watch all of those episodes. Under 1067 00:49:34,750 --> 00:49:37,390 S1: the bridge came out all at once in Australia. Presumed 1068 00:49:37,390 --> 00:49:39,820 S1: innocent coming out. Two episodes to start and then week 1069 00:49:39,820 --> 00:49:43,450 S1: by week. Do you prefer your crime served up to 1070 00:49:43,450 --> 00:49:45,250 S1: you in one sitting, or do you? How do you 1071 00:49:45,250 --> 00:49:46,719 S1: feel about the week by week? 1072 00:49:46,810 --> 00:49:49,930 S2: Uh, no, actually, I think particularly with a presumed innocence. 1073 00:49:50,050 --> 00:49:52,180 S2: Even though I was like really into it. I think 1074 00:49:52,180 --> 00:49:55,900 S2: that suits perfectly a weekly drop. I just like it's 1075 00:49:55,900 --> 00:49:57,729 S2: a bit too much to take in and you can't 1076 00:49:57,730 --> 00:50:00,370 S2: really like. I think the episodes are like close to 1077 00:50:00,370 --> 00:50:03,100 S2: an hour. Um, you probably need to like, marinate on 1078 00:50:03,100 --> 00:50:05,049 S2: it a little bit under the bridge, I thought wasn't 1079 00:50:05,050 --> 00:50:07,810 S2: as like probably like suited. You could just, like, go 1080 00:50:07,810 --> 00:50:09,879 S2: at your own pace. But I think generally with these 1081 00:50:09,880 --> 00:50:12,640 S2: crime shows, it's better to have them like teased out 1082 00:50:12,640 --> 00:50:14,200 S2: week over week. You don't want to be like, it's 1083 00:50:14,200 --> 00:50:14,800 S2: a lot. 1084 00:50:14,800 --> 00:50:18,219 S1: Yeah. I also feel like because Presumed Innocent, the concept 1085 00:50:18,219 --> 00:50:21,520 S1: is quite simple. You don't. It's okay to wait a week. 1086 00:50:21,520 --> 00:50:23,440 S1: Like you're not going to forget. Who was that character? 1087 00:50:23,440 --> 00:50:26,080 S1: What were they doing? What is this plot? Whereas Under 1088 00:50:26,080 --> 00:50:27,940 S1: the Bridge has so much going on that I think 1089 00:50:27,940 --> 00:50:30,820 S1: watching it week by week, you could very easily forget 1090 00:50:30,820 --> 00:50:32,800 S1: where you're up to and lose your way in that 1091 00:50:32,800 --> 00:50:33,520 S1: story and. 1092 00:50:33,520 --> 00:50:35,050 S2: Multiple timelines and stuff as well. 1093 00:50:35,050 --> 00:50:37,360 S1: Yeah, yeah, it becomes a bit more confusing. It is a. 1094 00:50:37,360 --> 00:50:39,129 S3: Bit a shame though, because I mean, you know, I've 1095 00:50:39,130 --> 00:50:40,900 S3: seen three episodes of Under the Bridge now and you've 1096 00:50:40,900 --> 00:50:42,969 S3: seen the full series and you don't get to discuss 1097 00:50:42,969 --> 00:50:45,160 S3: it in the same way. There's not that kind of, 1098 00:50:45,190 --> 00:50:47,319 S3: you know, what do you think is happening here? What 1099 00:50:47,320 --> 00:50:48,760 S3: do you think's happening with this person? Who do you 1100 00:50:48,760 --> 00:50:51,670 S3: think did it? Because everyone's experiencing it at different times, 1101 00:50:51,670 --> 00:50:52,989 S3: which is a bit of a shame. 1102 00:50:52,989 --> 00:50:55,930 S1: Yeah. You kind of miss the watercooler moment. Um, which 1103 00:50:55,930 --> 00:50:59,380 S1: I feel presumed innocent has, particularly if it has for sure. Yeah. 1104 00:50:59,380 --> 00:51:00,940 S1: A generation of those episodes. 1105 00:51:00,940 --> 00:51:02,080 S3: All. Boy, they get you. 1106 00:51:02,080 --> 00:51:07,840 S1: Yeah. Good. All right. Let's move on to impressing our friends. 1107 00:51:07,840 --> 00:51:10,390 S2: Or as you wrote in the script, recommendations for friends, 1108 00:51:10,390 --> 00:51:12,609 S2: even though the segment is called Impress Your Friends every 1109 00:51:12,610 --> 00:51:13,270 S2: single week. 1110 00:51:13,270 --> 00:51:13,989 S10: That's like. 1111 00:51:13,989 --> 00:51:16,210 S3: Um, she's putting her own stamp on it. Okay. Yeah, that's. 1112 00:51:16,210 --> 00:51:18,280 S1: Like a more austere one. Like this. 1113 00:51:18,280 --> 00:51:19,810 S10: Recommendations for friends by Melanie. 1114 00:51:19,810 --> 00:51:22,899 S1: Kimmy. Friends you may have. All right. Recommend to us 1115 00:51:22,900 --> 00:51:23,799 S1: your friends. Thomas. 1116 00:51:24,250 --> 00:51:26,020 S2: Uh, well, my one is a bit of a strange 1117 00:51:26,020 --> 00:51:29,410 S2: one this week. Um, it's actually the new David Sedaris 1118 00:51:29,410 --> 00:51:31,090 S2: longread in the New Yorker. I don't know if you 1119 00:51:31,090 --> 00:51:32,500 S2: guys know, but I was recently in New York. 1120 00:51:32,500 --> 00:51:35,140 S1: You also love David Sedaris. 1121 00:51:35,140 --> 00:51:35,710 S10: I do love I. 1122 00:51:35,710 --> 00:51:37,150 S2: Mean, that's not, like, a weird. 1123 00:51:37,150 --> 00:51:37,750 S10: Thing. 1124 00:51:37,750 --> 00:51:41,650 S1: No, I know, but I think you are, like, a 1125 00:51:41,650 --> 00:51:42,580 S1: true fanboy. 1126 00:51:42,580 --> 00:51:44,650 S2: Yeah, I love Sedaris, and I think, you. 1127 00:51:44,650 --> 00:51:45,460 S10: Know, which I like. 1128 00:51:45,580 --> 00:51:46,960 S2: Meg. Do you like Sedaris? 1129 00:51:47,500 --> 00:51:50,860 S3: I do the idea of you reading, uh, Sedaris article 1130 00:51:50,860 --> 00:51:52,570 S3: in the New Yorker in New York while eating a 1131 00:51:52,570 --> 00:51:55,300 S3: bagel and thinking about your bagel business is extremely funny, but. 1132 00:51:55,300 --> 00:51:56,890 S2: Like, it's like, fucking not far off, to. 1133 00:51:56,890 --> 00:51:59,049 S10: Be honest. Uh, no, but. 1134 00:51:59,050 --> 00:52:02,260 S2: I bought I actually bought a bunch of magazines while 1135 00:52:02,260 --> 00:52:03,279 S2: I was there because I was like, that's kind of 1136 00:52:03,280 --> 00:52:05,109 S2: what you do when you're overseas. I don't buy magazines 1137 00:52:05,110 --> 00:52:07,360 S2: any other times. But I bought, like it's kind of 1138 00:52:07,360 --> 00:52:09,280 S2: a novelty too, because I got like Vanity Fair, The 1139 00:52:09,280 --> 00:52:12,760 S2: New Yorker and, um, some other fucking magazine anyway. 1140 00:52:13,120 --> 00:52:15,220 S3: But like, shout out print media. 1141 00:52:15,820 --> 00:52:18,489 S2: But I just bought it because I was in a bookshop. 1142 00:52:18,489 --> 00:52:20,230 S2: And then I opened it up and I was like, oh, 1143 00:52:20,230 --> 00:52:22,450 S2: there's actually a Sedaris story in here. And he doesn't 1144 00:52:22,450 --> 00:52:24,549 S2: write for them that often anymore. And yes, I do 1145 00:52:24,550 --> 00:52:27,310 S2: really like him. Um, saw him last time he came 1146 00:52:27,310 --> 00:52:29,350 S2: out at the opera house. Did you actually kind of 1147 00:52:29,350 --> 00:52:32,140 S2: a weird show, to be honest. He's he's going drifting 1148 00:52:32,140 --> 00:52:33,850 S2: a little bit into, like, the kind of weird older 1149 00:52:33,850 --> 00:52:38,170 S2: man woke like weird older man. Like, I hate cancel 1150 00:52:38,170 --> 00:52:40,270 S2: culture territory, but that's a story for another day. 1151 00:52:40,600 --> 00:52:41,290 S10: So it's fun. 1152 00:52:41,290 --> 00:52:43,870 S2: Anyway, impress your friends with this David Sedaris longread because 1153 00:52:43,870 --> 00:52:47,020 S2: it actually is really funny. Um, it's called notes on 1154 00:52:47,020 --> 00:52:49,510 S2: a Last Minute Safari, and it's basically as many of 1155 00:52:49,510 --> 00:52:51,640 S2: his stories are. It's just about a trip he and 1156 00:52:51,640 --> 00:52:54,760 S2: his husband, Hugh, took to Kenya a last minute safari. 1157 00:52:54,760 --> 00:52:57,340 S2: And it's very, very funny. He talks about kind of 1158 00:52:57,340 --> 00:52:59,800 S2: the strange dichotomy of being like on these, like, you know, 1159 00:52:59,800 --> 00:53:03,310 S2: made for tourists tours, but then also staying in what 1160 00:53:03,520 --> 00:53:06,339 S2: he calls the most glamorous tent that he's ever been in. 1161 00:53:06,340 --> 00:53:08,830 S2: It's like better than most apartments he's ever owned. So yeah, 1162 00:53:08,830 --> 00:53:11,680 S2: it is classic Sedaris. Very funny, I enjoyed it. Um, 1163 00:53:11,680 --> 00:53:16,600 S2: can recommend specifically eating a bagel while enjoying it in, uh, 1164 00:53:16,600 --> 00:53:17,050 S2: the Lower. 1165 00:53:17,050 --> 00:53:17,740 S10: East Side, a bagel. 1166 00:53:17,739 --> 00:53:19,480 S1: From Thomas Mitchell's new bagel. 1167 00:53:19,480 --> 00:53:19,750 S10: Business. 1168 00:53:19,930 --> 00:53:22,330 S2: Yeah, yeah. Watch this space for the bagel business coming soon. 1169 00:53:22,330 --> 00:53:25,180 S1: Can I ask? I used to be very into David Sedaris. 1170 00:53:25,480 --> 00:53:28,989 S10: And. And did you grow out of it? No. 1171 00:53:29,350 --> 00:53:32,049 S1: But I did. He's very obviously very good at what 1172 00:53:32,050 --> 00:53:34,779 S1: he does. But is he still. I feel like once 1173 00:53:34,780 --> 00:53:37,270 S1: you've read, like, a lot of David Sedaris, you kind 1174 00:53:37,270 --> 00:53:40,600 S1: of get his thing. And I kind of grew out 1175 00:53:40,600 --> 00:53:41,020 S1: of it. 1176 00:53:41,020 --> 00:53:42,700 S10: Oh my God, you're kidding. 1177 00:53:42,969 --> 00:53:44,469 S1: I'm kidding. But, um. 1178 00:53:44,920 --> 00:53:46,960 S10: I mean, you're not kidding his style. 1179 00:53:46,960 --> 00:53:48,460 S1: I mean, I haven't read his stuff for, like, a 1180 00:53:48,460 --> 00:53:50,379 S1: long time. I mean, has he changed his style or 1181 00:53:50,380 --> 00:53:52,000 S1: he's still doing what he does really well? 1182 00:53:52,000 --> 00:53:53,080 S10: Yeah, I think, like. 1183 00:53:53,080 --> 00:53:57,129 S2: I mean, yeah, sadly for my simple tastes, Melanie, uh, I, 1184 00:53:57,130 --> 00:53:59,530 S2: I enjoy what he does. I think he's funny. Like. Yeah, 1185 00:53:59,530 --> 00:54:01,420 S2: I agree, like, I've read I've read all of his books. 1186 00:54:01,420 --> 00:54:02,859 S2: They all give you the same thing. You probably don't 1187 00:54:02,860 --> 00:54:04,240 S2: want to like you can't read them back to back 1188 00:54:04,239 --> 00:54:07,480 S2: to back. But yeah, I think he's a really funny writer. And, um, 1189 00:54:07,480 --> 00:54:09,879 S2: sometimes I just want to have a laugh while I 1190 00:54:09,880 --> 00:54:10,510 S2: am reading. 1191 00:54:10,510 --> 00:54:11,469 S10: Thank you for your recommended. 1192 00:54:11,469 --> 00:54:13,839 S2: For me, for me and the other. Like people who 1193 00:54:13,840 --> 00:54:17,560 S2: like the low hanging fruit, um, read, read, read notes 1194 00:54:17,560 --> 00:54:19,390 S2: on a last minute safari by David Sedaris. 1195 00:54:19,390 --> 00:54:21,190 S10: And then, I don't know, I love the. 1196 00:54:21,190 --> 00:54:23,530 S3: The segment's called Impress Your Friends, and you've only been 1197 00:54:23,530 --> 00:54:24,280 S3: roasted by a. 1198 00:54:24,280 --> 00:54:26,140 S10: Friend. Yeah, exactly. 1199 00:54:26,620 --> 00:54:28,210 S1: Well, that's why we rebranded. 1200 00:54:28,360 --> 00:54:28,690 S10: It as a. 1201 00:54:28,690 --> 00:54:29,739 S1: Recommendation for. 1202 00:54:29,739 --> 00:54:31,810 S10: Your friend. It'll impress my dumb friends. 1203 00:54:32,020 --> 00:54:34,300 S2: Um, if you're friends with Melanie, then obviously, uh, check 1204 00:54:34,300 --> 00:54:38,469 S2: out parade, the new Cusk. Um, it's completely fucking incomprehensible, but. 1205 00:54:40,090 --> 00:54:43,780 S1: All right. Meg, what? Are you okay? Yeah, like. I'm sorry. 1206 00:54:43,780 --> 00:54:46,630 S1: I've made this a very antagonistic section. 1207 00:54:46,660 --> 00:54:48,310 S10: All right, all right. Meg, what have you got? 1208 00:54:49,360 --> 00:54:52,399 S1: Sorry. It's happened. Um, Meg, what have you got for us? 1209 00:54:52,969 --> 00:54:56,630 S3: Um, I have got an album because I don't have 1210 00:54:56,630 --> 00:55:00,410 S3: much TV to recommend on Tenplay. Unfortunately, um, it's Jessica 1211 00:55:00,410 --> 00:55:03,680 S3: Pratt's new album here in the pitch, which came out 1212 00:55:03,680 --> 00:55:07,700 S3: last month, but I'm slow to getting getting to this week. Um, 1213 00:55:07,700 --> 00:55:09,650 S3: and also her music generally. I mean, this is her 1214 00:55:09,650 --> 00:55:11,720 S3: fourth album. She's been around for a while. The kind 1215 00:55:11,719 --> 00:55:14,509 S3: of person who her songs pop up in Spotify playlists 1216 00:55:14,510 --> 00:55:16,850 S3: all the time when I'm just like, oh, songs for 1217 00:55:16,850 --> 00:55:20,030 S3: a Rainy walk. And it's like, oh, so dreamy, so nice. Um, 1218 00:55:20,030 --> 00:55:22,640 S3: but this album in particular is really great for people 1219 00:55:22,640 --> 00:55:25,520 S3: who don't know her. She's a singer songwriter from the 1220 00:55:25,520 --> 00:55:28,190 S3: US who's been compared to Joni Mitchell a lot. She 1221 00:55:28,190 --> 00:55:32,150 S3: does folk music, but kind of like ethereal, psychedelic folk 1222 00:55:32,180 --> 00:55:36,860 S3: type stuff. This album in particular was, um, inspired by 1223 00:55:36,860 --> 00:55:39,259 S3: LA and like the late 60s, so it's got deep 1224 00:55:39,260 --> 00:55:42,560 S3: Manson vibes for all those motorheads out there. Um, this 1225 00:55:42,560 --> 00:55:46,610 S3: kind of sunny and sinister mix, which, uh, is really 1226 00:55:46,610 --> 00:55:49,489 S3: nice listening at the moment when you know you're in 1227 00:55:49,489 --> 00:55:52,700 S3: a cold, wintry Melbourne morning and want to feel like 1228 00:55:52,700 --> 00:55:54,530 S3: you're in sunny 60s L.A.. 1229 00:55:54,650 --> 00:55:56,810 S1: I think that is so true. Meg, I really agree 1230 00:55:56,810 --> 00:55:59,180 S1: with this recommendation, mainly because I. 1231 00:55:59,180 --> 00:56:02,870 S10: Made it a few weeks ago. Did I missed it? 1232 00:56:02,870 --> 00:56:05,000 S1: I think this album is so good that I reckon 1233 00:56:05,000 --> 00:56:07,580 S1: we can have it twice on there just for, uh, 1234 00:56:07,580 --> 00:56:10,580 S1: people who haven't listened to it because it's quite it's 1235 00:56:10,580 --> 00:56:12,650 S1: it's a short album too, but you just feel like I. 1236 00:56:12,650 --> 00:56:15,200 S3: Was just going to say it's nice. It's like nine songs. 1237 00:56:15,200 --> 00:56:18,740 S3: It's so digestible. You don't feel overwhelmed by the content 1238 00:56:18,739 --> 00:56:20,870 S3: of some other creators. Um, would. 1239 00:56:20,870 --> 00:56:21,500 S10: I get it. 1240 00:56:21,500 --> 00:56:22,340 S2: Or would I? 1241 00:56:22,430 --> 00:56:23,930 S10: I reckon I could see you with your. 1242 00:56:23,930 --> 00:56:24,770 S1: New Yorker and. 1243 00:56:24,770 --> 00:56:26,210 S10: Your bagel and listening to. 1244 00:56:26,210 --> 00:56:29,180 S1: These kind of folky sounds. I think you'd love. 1245 00:56:29,180 --> 00:56:30,800 S2: It as long as you could be there to explain. 1246 00:56:30,800 --> 00:56:35,090 S10: It to me. Oh, here we go. What's yours? Okay. 1247 00:56:35,180 --> 00:56:39,560 S1: Mine is, um, is Queenie, which is on Disney Plus. 1248 00:56:39,560 --> 00:56:43,700 S1: It's based on the book, um, Candice Carty-williams book. Uh, 1249 00:56:43,700 --> 00:56:47,120 S1: it's a eight episode series. It's kind of a coming 1250 00:56:47,120 --> 00:56:50,240 S1: of age. It's set in south London. It follows the 1251 00:56:50,239 --> 00:56:52,969 S1: main characters. Queenie's kind of. She has a break up 1252 00:56:52,969 --> 00:56:55,400 S1: and then recovering from that. But it's got a lot 1253 00:56:55,400 --> 00:56:59,330 S1: about her family dynamic as well. Look, it's a really 1254 00:56:59,330 --> 00:57:02,180 S1: watchable show that's getting better with every episode. I'm about 1255 00:57:02,180 --> 00:57:06,200 S1: four episodes in, um, but it's a really good depiction of, um, 1256 00:57:06,200 --> 00:57:10,700 S1: South London Gen Z. Um, there's lots going on in it, 1257 00:57:10,700 --> 00:57:13,879 S1: but it's also very funny. Um, so if you're looking 1258 00:57:13,880 --> 00:57:15,950 S1: for a kind of nice show, um, change. 1259 00:57:15,950 --> 00:57:16,640 S10: Of pace from the. 1260 00:57:16,640 --> 00:57:17,510 S2: Many murders. 1261 00:57:17,510 --> 00:57:18,860 S10: From the many murders. 1262 00:57:18,860 --> 00:57:20,840 S1: This is a good one. It's got a lot of heart. Um, 1263 00:57:20,840 --> 00:57:22,670 S1: at the same time as. It's very funny. And I 1264 00:57:22,670 --> 00:57:24,919 S1: like all the shots of, um, London as well. 1265 00:57:24,920 --> 00:57:26,330 S3: Did you say it was on Disney+? It's on. 1266 00:57:26,330 --> 00:57:26,990 S1: Disney+. 1267 00:57:26,990 --> 00:57:29,510 S10: Yeah. So you can't watch Meg, unfortunately. Well, yeah. 1268 00:57:30,020 --> 00:57:33,170 S3: One more day. One more day. Um, I feel I 1269 00:57:33,170 --> 00:57:34,610 S3: feel like there's a lot of good stuff going under 1270 00:57:34,610 --> 00:57:36,140 S3: the radar on Disney at the moment. I mean, that 1271 00:57:36,140 --> 00:57:39,890 S3: was clipped as on Disney. We talked about that last week. Yeah. 1272 00:57:39,890 --> 00:57:40,669 S3: Worth checking out when. 1273 00:57:40,670 --> 00:57:42,950 S2: They're coming soon and then everything will. 1274 00:57:42,950 --> 00:57:43,970 S10: Be as it should be. 1275 00:57:44,120 --> 00:57:46,490 S3: And then everyone discovers all the shows that they've missed. 1276 00:57:46,490 --> 00:57:48,110 S1: Yeah, yeah. It is like that, isn't it? When you 1277 00:57:48,110 --> 00:57:49,520 S1: go onto a stream you haven't looked at in a 1278 00:57:49,520 --> 00:57:51,200 S1: while and you're like, oh, there's I'll sit with this 1279 00:57:51,200 --> 00:57:53,030 S1: for the next day or two. Do you have a. 1280 00:57:53,030 --> 00:57:56,720 S3: Little countdown timer, Thomas, for the season drop of the bear? 1281 00:57:56,720 --> 00:58:00,470 S2: Uh, no, I don't I'm obviously very excited. And look, 1282 00:58:00,470 --> 00:58:03,050 S2: in one of the I think it was the Vanity 1283 00:58:03,050 --> 00:58:07,010 S2: Fair that I read. Ayo Edebiri was on the cover. Um, 1284 00:58:07,280 --> 00:58:09,680 S2: actually really interesting interview, blah, blah, blah, but she I 1285 00:58:09,680 --> 00:58:10,460 S2: didn't realize. 1286 00:58:10,460 --> 00:58:12,560 S3: Um, are you trying to do a second recommendation because 1287 00:58:12,560 --> 00:58:13,490 S3: your first flopped? Yeah. 1288 00:58:13,850 --> 00:58:16,520 S2: I stand by it. Me and all the Sedaris heads 1289 00:58:16,820 --> 00:58:19,880 S2: just getting confused by left and right. But the she 1290 00:58:19,880 --> 00:58:23,510 S2: basically worked as a barista at this, uh, restaurant in 1291 00:58:23,510 --> 00:58:25,970 S2: New York called ABC kitchen. And the day I read 1292 00:58:25,970 --> 00:58:27,950 S2: the story, I went there for dinner. Wow. 1293 00:58:28,250 --> 00:58:29,540 S10: Because of that? No, no, no. 1294 00:58:29,540 --> 00:58:31,340 S2: No, like before, like when she, like, lived in New 1295 00:58:31,340 --> 00:58:33,470 S2: York and was like, just studying acting or whatever and 1296 00:58:33,470 --> 00:58:35,570 S2: was like a barista there and then. Yeah. So that 1297 00:58:35,570 --> 00:58:36,920 S2: was a fun tie in. 1298 00:58:36,920 --> 00:58:39,050 S1: Wow. That's great. There you go. You didn't see any 1299 00:58:39,080 --> 00:58:40,850 S1: anyone famous? But you got to go. 1300 00:58:40,850 --> 00:58:43,070 S10: Yes, I got to have person at work. Yes. 1301 00:58:43,070 --> 00:58:46,760 S2: Close proximity to where I once worked, which is good 1302 00:58:46,760 --> 00:58:47,390 S2: enough for me. 1303 00:58:47,630 --> 00:58:51,800 S1: What a highlight. Well, thank you so much, guys. We'll 1304 00:58:51,800 --> 00:58:54,830 S1: be back next week to No Doubt. Talk about the bear. 1305 00:58:54,860 --> 00:58:56,840 S10: Yes thanks guys Joe. 1306 00:58:57,020 --> 00:58:58,070 S3: Thank you. Bye. 1307 00:59:00,130 --> 00:59:03,040 S1: This episode of The Drop was produced by Kai Wong. 1308 00:59:03,070 --> 00:59:05,320 S1: If you enjoyed listening to today's episode of The Drop, 1309 00:59:05,320 --> 00:59:07,900 S1: make sure to follow us on your favorite podcast app. 1310 00:59:07,900 --> 00:59:09,970 S1: Leave us a review or better yet, share it with 1311 00:59:09,970 --> 00:59:13,390 S1: a friend. I'm Melanie Kimbrough and we'll see you next week.