S1: From the newsrooms of the Sydney Morning Herald and The Age.
S1: This is the morning edition. I'm Samantha Selinger Morris. It's Tuesday,
S1: May 20th. From afar, many of us saw the odd
S1: agitator pop up on the federal election campaign trail, where
S1: they yelled at politicians or others like an indigenous elder
S1: on Anzac Day. And we thought they were just the
S1: actions of random ratbags. But watching on was crime reporter
S1: Sharon Crock, who discovered something unusual. A small but sophisticated
S1: group of people involved in many of these incidents had
S1: links to neo-Nazis. Today, Sharon Rocks joins me to discuss
S1: the rise of neo-Nazis in Australia and the steps they're
S1: taking to form a political party. So, Sharon, can you
S1: please take us back to the run up to the
S1: federal election, which is when you noticed some agitators, I guess,
S1: popping up at various press stops doing various stunts. What
S1: were they doing?
S2: Yeah. So you probably noticed this election got pretty wild.
S2: And something that happened, which we hadn't really seen as
S2: much of before, were these coordinated confrontations with politicians. It
S2: started on the very first day of the campaign. The
S2: Prime Minister and the treasurer were heckled by a guy
S2: asking questions about immigration.
S3: 1.8 million immigrants in five years is going to increase
S3: demand on the medical system.
S2: They also held a rally outside a liberal senator's office
S2: in their full, you know, black masks earlier in the campaign.
S4: Is swamping us with Third World populations. And the Labor
S4: Party is dragging us into third world conditions.
S2: Then they actually ambushed the prime minister in his hotel lobby.
S4: Elbow.
S5: How do you feel about the rise in immigration, mate?
S5: Do you think it's fair? Yep. Thank you. Do you
S5: think it's fair?
S2: And a white supremacist crashed a forum in Kooyong that
S2: went a bit nuts when an older woman actually threw
S2: a punch at him.
S4: Relation between immigration and immigration. Back off, back off. When
S4: will you address it? Are you also scared to address it?
S4: You say that you don't have any problem with political donations.
S2: I realized you sort of all of a sudden that
S2: the men behind these stunts had personal connections to known neo-Nazis.
S2: So either they were friends. They'd been photographed with Nazis
S2: at their events recently, or they were part of the
S2: Lads Society, which was the early club run by the
S2: main neo-Nazi leader in Australia, Thomas Sewell. So look, I
S2: knew the Nazis had done well at pushing deeper into
S2: the far right during Covid and all the anti-vax, anti-lockdown
S2: stuff that really sprung up then. But it wasn't until
S2: the election that I saw just how central they'd become.
S2: And then, of course, A group of neo-Nazis booed during
S2: the Anzac Day dawn service. And they kind of came
S2: out into the open, so we were able to kind
S2: of pick them out as Nazis pretty quickly then. But
S2: in the last week of the campaign, things got even
S2: wilder because these known neo-Nazis started impersonating the Liberal Party
S2: at early voting centres. One guy was handing out anti-Semitic
S2: flyers in a blue T-shirt.
S6: Liberal party, great policies.
S2: It looks like the Liberal Party branding. But when you
S2: looked closer, you could see a Star of David and
S2: the flag on the logo. And there were guys there
S2: in costume beards and fake Jewish Orthodox clothing. It was
S2: really offensive. And the Flyers were claiming the liberals wanted
S2: to give Jewish people free money.
S6: We need to give Jews free money because we know
S6: the Jews are a little short on cash. Right? So
S6: Liberal Party website, these are our policies and not our
S6: policies from Liberal Party. I'm just a big fan. I'm
S6: a dumb goy. I'm a convert.
S2: And they did the same thing with the Labor Party.
S2: Actually they Actually, they handed out these fake red flyers
S2: making racist claims about Indian migration. So look, Nazis doing
S2: stunts isn't new, but this sneakier strategy of teaming up
S2: with others in the far right who were more like
S2: Nazi adjacent, let's say, than open neo-Nazis, seemed like a
S2: shift in tactics to me. So I decided to take
S2: a closer look.
S7: Okay, so can you just take a step.
S1: Back for a moment and just explain to us who
S1: are these neo-Nazis?
S2: So neo-Nazis have been active in Australia for a while,
S2: recruiting young men like training in combat and weapons and plotting,
S2: building their own white order from their sort of homes
S2: and gyms. But experts who tracked them online say they're
S2: more organized than ever. This group are called the National
S2: Socialist Network or the NSN, and they're the biggest Nazi
S2: group in Australia. So when we talk about neo-Nazis, we're
S2: mostly talking about them. They're based in Melbourne, but they
S2: have chapters around the country and they're one of the
S2: most high profile neo-Nazi groups in the world, really, which
S2: I hate to mention because they love the publicity. But,
S2: you know, their numbers aren't actually even that huge. It's
S2: just that they're dedicated. They'll bus members into a rally
S2: in their black bucket hats and boots. They'll hold up
S2: their racist signs. Sometimes they'll do a Nazi salute. They're
S2: successful here because they run what's called an active club model. Basically,
S2: they get young men in by offering a boxing and
S2: fitness club camping trips, and members actually pay a fee
S2: every month to be part of this group. And that's
S2: when they start indoctrinating them in their Nazi ideologies and
S2: Hitler worship. And it is full on worship. I mean,
S2: they recently celebrated Adolf Hitler's birthday. Tom Sewell, he's the
S2: most well known. He runs the group. He's already been
S2: convicted for a string of violent offenses. But back in
S2: sort of the earlier days, he and the group were
S2: less open about what they were. So Saul would be
S2: telling recruits, you know, let's build our own white neighborhood
S2: so that one day we can overthrow the rest of
S2: society and start mass deportations of people of color. And
S2: then he brought in people like Jacob Hassan, who was
S2: running around with his own little anti-Semitic graffiti and stunts
S2: like that. And that's the guy that booed on Anzac Day.
S2: So they were kind of less keen on politics up
S2: until now. Um, they thought the only way to achieve
S2: their goals was to speed up this coming collapse of
S2: society and seize power. And these guys are serious people.
S2: I mean, some of their members have been part of
S2: terror groups like the base combat 18 or bikie clubs,
S2: prison gangs. But now we're kind of seeing in this
S2: new generation of Nazi, they're getting better at recruiting, and
S2: their problem is they keep getting nabbed more and more
S2: by the cops. You know, the cops are actually starting
S2: to take them pretty seriously. And we're seeing these new
S2: laws come in. So now they're sort of turning back
S2: to this idea of playing the sneaky Nazis. Tom Sewell
S2: has put it to his followers so they can break
S2: into the mainstream. And that was kind of the point
S2: of the Anzac Day stunt. And some of the stuff
S2: we saw on the election trail this morning.
S8: I'm here to welcome everybody to my father's country. Beautiful
S8: boomerang country. But before we do that, we pay our
S8: acknowledgments and we pay our respects.
S2: So the shrine stunt was planned for a while on
S2: Anzac Day. There were about 40 neo-Nazis there. It turns out,
S2: along with their wives, they were all spread out throughout
S2: the crowd. They didn't want the media to realise it
S2: was them and one of the main Nazis, Joel Davis.
S2: He's since spoken about this online. He said they'd expected
S2: it would just be reported as Australians fed up and
S2: spontaneously booing the Welcome to Country and, of course Peter Dutton.
S2: He condemned the stunt, but he also seized on it
S2: to criticise welcome to country ceremonies. And Joel Davis has
S2: been joking for a while that, say Clive Palmer's trumpet
S2: for Patriots Party stole their idea with all his ads about,
S2: you know, railing against Welcome to Country, which the major
S2: media outlets ran, including us, I should say. So to
S2: some extent, the Nazis succeeded in hijacking the national debate
S2: in those final weeks of the campaign. Since we outed them,
S2: they've actually since kind of run with it. And they've
S2: declared war on both the major parties. Now they've actually
S2: planning to go after the liberals in particular, as traitors
S2: for backing recent anti-vilification laws which have been passed in
S2: states like Victoria. So they really want to tear down
S2: the libs so they can kind of create this new
S2: coalition of far right micro-parties who were more sympathetic to
S2: their ideas, and it turns out they're actually making a
S2: run at politics themselves.
S1: We'll be right back. Well, I really want to ask
S1: you this, because this is sort of at the crux of,
S1: I guess, where this could go next. And really about
S1: your reporting, which is that the NSN, the National Socialist Network,
S1: this group you're talking about, they are actually trying to
S1: form a political party. So I guess, how far into
S1: this process are they?
S2: Yes. So they have this kind of sneaky plan where
S2: they want to register with the Australian Electoral Commission to
S2: stand candidates for the next federal election. And they've already
S2: got a slick propaganda wing set up. They actually just
S2: dropped like a couple of days ago. This kind of
S2: self-styled documentary, which features a lot of boxing and clips
S2: of them facing off with the cops in a very
S2: strange rants about needing to be a militant force to
S2: take back Australia for the white man. The experts are
S2: saying to me, even if they don't get anyone up
S2: at the ballot box, the tactic could help them in
S2: a couple of ways. They could gain more of this
S2: false legitimacy as they push further into right wing politics.
S2: You know, popping up as just everyday citizens asking reasonable questions.
S2: Or it could actually help them evade a crackdown by authorities.
S2: So Sule can't meet with the group technically, but he
S2: does these kind of little lonely live streams where he
S2: talks about his plans to followers. So Sule has spoken
S2: about how lucky they are so far not to have
S2: been designated a terror group like the bass and other
S2: groups they know have overseas. So Sule argues they have
S2: to outmaneuver the cops, and he wants to kind of
S2: do it by forming a political party without the overt
S2: National Socialist Nazi branding as a way to kind of,
S2: you know, call it all political expression.
S7: And tell us, though, I mean, how do you think
S7: this group.
S1: Will actually go with regards to getting a political party
S1: off the ground?
S2: Well, I mean, it's hard to imagine Australians actually electing
S2: an out and proud Nazi. I mean, but they might
S2: be successful in elevating, say, a far right candidate who
S2: shares their radical views on immigration. And and again, is
S2: part of that more sneaky Nazi adjacent cohort. neo-Nazi groups
S2: around the world have sort of taken the polarisation of
S2: politics that we've seen of late, particularly under Donald Trump.
S2: And the US is a bit of a, you know,
S2: open season for recruiting. And I know the Nazis here
S2: do talk about the return of the far right in Germany,
S2: for example, as a bit of a guiding light for them.
S2: But when you talk to other extremism experts, like Josh Roose,
S2: for example, he said to me, look, you know, in
S2: in Australia at least, we've seen massive backlash to Trump.
S2: And that hurt Peter Dutton in the Liberal Party. So
S2: that could also hurt their political plans. Also their criminal
S2: convictions could start to pile up enough that their main
S2: leaders can't actually serve anymore. Or what you might see,
S2: which is what often happens with far right parties, is
S2: they might all just sort of turn on each other.
S2: I mean, these other little micro parties like the libertarians,
S2: one nation, they might not like sharing the stage with
S2: the Nazis or, you know, everyone wants to be Führer,
S2: so the group itself might tear itself apart trying to
S2: actually find a leader and find someone to stand. So
S2: none of this is inevitable just because they get up
S2: it or they they register a party. It doesn't mean
S2: that they're about to take power in Australia like they
S2: love to talk about, but it does mean we should
S2: take them seriously. And on face value, you might look
S2: at these plants. It's just ridiculous. Like as if this
S2: is ever going to happen. But all the experts, they
S2: say to me, look, these guys are serious and they're dangerous.
S2: So we need to be really alert.
S7: And I'm just.
S1: Wondering, I have to ask, you know, given all the
S1: scrutiny on so many of these members, why have they
S1: not been banned? You know, by ASIO or by our
S1: government or by anybody really?
S2: That's the million dollar question. What I hear is that
S2: unless the group are sort of caught in the act
S2: of planning a violent event, it is very hard to
S2: designate them as an all out terror group. And certainly
S2: with this new round of anti-vilification laws, which is still
S2: to come in in Victoria, and the new round of
S2: actually banning Nazi symbols, that has cracked down and started
S2: to narrow what they can get away with, and they
S2: are starting to be pinged more and more. There's been
S2: raids on their houses more and more. So they know
S2: they're in a more tenuous landscape now with what they
S2: can get away with. But yes, they are yet to
S2: be designated, and that would really change the game. And
S2: it's what they fear the most.
S1: Well, Sharon, we're lucky you're reporting in this space. So
S1: thank you so much for your time.
S2: Thanks, Samantha.
S1: Today's episode of The Morning Edition was produced by myself,
S1: Julia Katzel, and Margaret Gordon, with technical assistance by Josh towers.
S1: Our executive producer is Tammy Mills. Tom McKendrick is our
S1: head of audio. The Morning Edition is a production of
S1: The Age and The Sydney Morning Herald. To support our journalism,
S1: subscribe to us by visiting The Age or smh.com.au. Subscribe
S1: and sign up for our Morning Edition newsletter to receive
S1: a comprehensive summary of the day's most important news, analysis
S1: and insights in your inbox every day. Links are in
S1: the show. Notes. I'm Samantha Selinger. Morris. This is the
S1: morning edition. Thanks for listening.