S1: From the newsrooms of the Sydney Morning Herald and The Age.
S1: This is the morning edition. I'm Samantha Cylinder Morris. It's Monday,
S1: March 3rd. The world is full of doom and gloom.
S1: So today we're bringing you something a little bit different
S1: for your Monday. It's a conversation with David Wenham, the
S1: Australian actor who has starred in blockbusters like Lord of
S1: the rings, Pirates of the Caribbean and the spartan epic 300.
S1: But those aren't the rules that prompt people to stop
S1: him on the street. No, they want to talk about
S1: his character, John Francis Spitieri, a two bit criminal and
S1: ex-junkie who first made his debut 22 years ago in
S1: the Aussie indie classic Gettin Square. So beloved was this
S1: character that he's now the star of a spin off spit,
S1: which debuts on Thursday today. David Wenham on Why here
S1: in Australia, and unlike in North America or the United Kingdom,
S1: we celebrate the downtrodden, the criminal and the devastated rather
S1: than classic success stories. So, David, let's start off with
S1: your latest role. This is, of course, the infamous John
S1: Francis Battery. Just briefly tell me, who is he?
S2: Well, John Francis battery, he's a he's an ex, small
S2: time crim who now is also an ex-junkie. And some
S2: people may have met him more than 20 years, 22
S2: years ago in a film called Gettin Square.
S3: I'm gonna get square and I'm gonna stay fuckin square. Yeah,
S3: you do it, mate.
S2: And at the end of that film, he left the
S2: shores to get clean. So we've made a spin off,
S2: not a sequel, a spin off whereby we focus literally
S2: on John Francis battery. It's called spit. And the film
S2: starts with. With spit returning to Australia after 22 years,
S2: and he doesn't get very far, and he gets pulled
S2: up by the authorities and he gets thrown into immigration detention.
S4: Lock him up. This is Australia. It's still a free country,
S4: isn't it?
S5: Why are you in this place? Oh, my. This is
S5: a tragic case of mistaken identity.
S6: International fugitive. Money launderer. Criminal mastermind John Francis Spitieri.
S1: Do you want to ask you why this character is
S1: so revered? Because, like you said, we are talking about
S1: an ex-con. An ex-junkie. But you recently told the Weekend
S1: Australian magazine that more than any other role, it's become
S1: the character that people still come up to me about
S1: almost on a daily basis. You said some people who
S1: approach you say they've seen it dozens of times. So
S1: why are people so drawn to him?
S2: Yeah, there's a guy that I met. He said that
S2: he's watched it probably about 50 times. Him and his wife.
S2: It's a really it's a really curious one. And if
S2: I put my thinking cap on to actually have a
S2: little think about it, I think it's because at his heart,
S2: he is a good man for all his flaws and
S2: idiosyncrasies and and faults and quirks, he's genuinely a good man.
S2: And he's also, as we find out in this film,
S2: he's also the least judgmental person you could ever wish
S2: to come across. Doesn't matter what religion you are, what
S2: the color of your skin, how much money you've got,
S2: what job you you do or don't do. He doesn't care.
S2: He's just going to treat you exactly as you come.
S2: And this film, essentially, if you ask me what it's about,
S2: it's about mateship. And at the end of the film,
S2: I think people leave the cinema not only feeling, you know,
S2: pretty happy and, you know, uplifted, but they I think
S2: they feel as though, wow, I'd really love to be
S2: a mate of Spitzer's. He's a genuinely good man, and
S2: he endears. Yeah. And he endears himself to to people.
S2: I think they. Yeah, they feel for him. Well, I.
S1: Really wanted to ask you about one scene in particular,
S1: which I think really is possibly the most endearing scene.
S1: And I mean, of course, this is a comedy. I
S1: have to be very clear to the listeners about that.
S1: But there was one scene in spit which absolutely made
S1: tears spring to my eyes. It's the scene in which
S1: spit visits his sister in hospital. She's in a bad way.
S1: She's also a member of a different outsider community. I'm
S1: going to leave it for the moviegoers to discover. But
S1: she is in a bad way. And just the way you,
S1: you know, the absolutely distraught, you know, the destitute look
S1: on your face. I'm just wondering if there was a
S1: particular person or experience or relationship that, that you drew
S1: upon to help you to elicit that feeling?
S2: Look, I suppose in short, the answer is yes, but
S2: I think it's a feeling, you know, not to give
S2: terribly much away about about the film, but it's, you know,
S2: it's grief. And we all, we all suffer that throughout
S2: our lives, you know. You know, that's part of being human.
S2: People are going to, you know, hideous things are going
S2: to happen to people. And some people, we all die.
S2: So it's not something that is unfamiliar to any of us.
S2: And yeah, it's it's it was something that I could
S2: easily access.
S1: But I did wonder if you are comfortable to give
S1: me any details of what you drew upon, because I
S1: was with both my parents when they died. And just
S1: your reaction was very it really rang true to me.
S1: And I just think that the way someone responds when
S1: someone is in a very bad way, is perhaps different
S1: in reality than you might think if you hadn't experienced it.
S2: Yeah, both my parents have have passed away. I got
S2: to see my mother just before she she passed away
S2: and and with my mother, when she was laying there,
S2: about to take her last breath, she was surrounded by
S2: her children. I'm the last of seven. And it was
S2: literally nearly her last breath when the screen sort of
S2: slid open and a lady put her head around the
S2: curtain and just asked what my mother might like to eat,
S2: whether it be the I think it was the chicken
S2: soup or something else. And I was like, oh my God,
S2: I couldn't script this any better. You can't. It was like,
S2: you know, comedy and tragedy in right at exactly the. Yeah,
S2: the same second. But in terms of, in terms of,
S2: you know, having we've all had hideous experiences happen to us.
S2: I remember years ago I got a phone call, a
S2: very good friend of mine, his partner was giving birth,
S2: and the child died as she was giving birth, and
S2: he asked me to come in and. And for want
S2: of a better word, help with the situation. And they
S2: wanted me to. I took footprints of that child. Um,
S2: so they had a record of her, you know. Their
S2: little child. I was the person who, um, dealt with the,
S2: the situation from then for the next few days. And
S2: it was. Yeah. And I never would have thought that
S2: I'd find myself in that situation. It was. Yeah, it
S2: was a very unique human experience.
S1: I guess just to bring it back to the film,
S1: I wanted to ask whether you agreed with the director,
S1: Jonathan Teplitzky, because he has said that he thinks spit
S1: is the kind of mythological character, an ordinary man doing
S1: his best that Australians like to believe they are. So
S1: does that ring true to you?
S2: Sort of. Yes. That's how Chris Knight, who's a very
S2: successful criminal lawyer on the Gold Coast, would also describe
S2: Johnny Spiteri, the little man trying to do his best.
S2: And he's got an interesting take as well on it.
S2: Being a criminal lawyer, he's the belief that everybody, everybody
S2: is a good person. It's only that along the way
S2: some people events may occur or things may happen which
S2: will alter them in such a way that they they
S2: go down another path. But he believes at their core,
S2: everybody is a good person, which is a fascinating way
S2: to to look at people in the world, really.
S1: Now, David, I really want to zoom out a little
S1: bit and ask you your take on why Australians broadly
S1: reveal underdogs so much, and in particular those with a
S1: criminal bent like John Spitieri. And just to give you
S1: a bit of context, I'm obsessed with this because I
S1: grew up in Canada. Yeah, I've lived here 27 years,
S1: but I grew up in Canada, and there we revered
S1: classic success stories, you know, hockey stars Jim Carrey, John Candy.
S1: And here, though, we've got Ned Kelly, you know, the
S1: Gallipoli soldiers who were slaughtered in what has to be
S1: one of Australia's worst losses, characters like Alan Bond, you know,
S1: a convicted criminal. I imagine he's less revered today.
S7: But his.
S2: Name is.
S7: Still on.
S1: A.
S7: University. Yeah.
S2: No, that's really weird, isn't it? Yeah. Money can buy anything, really,
S2: can't they?
S1: I'd love your take, because I've always been obsessed with it.
S1: To me, it's very unique about Australia. It is.
S2: It is odd. You know, we made the first the
S2: first feature length film in the world. No. 124 years ago.
S7: What was that?
S2: And it was the story of the Kelly Gang.
S7: See, there you go.
S2: There you go. The very first feature film in the
S2: world ever made. And it was about. Yeah. A gangster essentially. Exactly.
S2: And then we have, you know, chopper obviously did so
S2: well as well. Like. Yeah. Pretty hideous man, in all honesty.
S2: It is a fascinating one. And I've got to say,
S2: as I get older, I, I really question why we
S2: do actually Revere these characters. Yeah, we embrace them. Why
S2: we do it? I don't know, maybe it's because I
S2: don't know. Maybe it's it has to do with the
S2: way this country was settled or taken, you know, over
S2: 200 years ago. I don't know, but I think it's
S2: worth having a bit of a rethink about it, because
S2: you're right. I think we should celebrate, celebrate different forms
S2: of people. Yes. Yeah. We should celebrate. Yeah. Let's look
S2: to the light, I think. Yeah. And I think that's
S2: why spit. Yeah. He is. He's not, you know, he's
S2: an ex-junkie. Yeah. He's not a he's not a you know,
S2: he's not a sophisticated criminal at all. He's, you know,
S2: a bit of five finger discount here and there. And
S2: that's about the extent of it really. But he it's
S2: a it's an uplifting. It is um story. And it's,
S2: it's a, it's a unifying story. We had a lady
S2: in the audience the other night in Brisbane. And after
S2: the screening she said, I tell you at the end,
S2: at the end of the film, she said, I just
S2: wanted to hug the person next to me. Yes. Which
S2: is a pretty amazing thing.
S1: We'll be right back. Okay. So David, on this point
S1: of why we celebrate underdogs here, I did a bit
S1: of digging, so I interviewed.
S7: What did you find? Well, here.
S1: I interviewed your mate John Casimir. He was your producer
S1: on an ABC.
S7: TV series, the.
S1: ABC of. When you were in my position interviewing iconic Australians.
S1: And he told me that he he does think it's
S1: our penal colony background here that you know, that the
S1: heroes then were those who rebelled against authority because the
S1: authority was pretty awful. So do you think that's what
S1: he was saying?
S2: Well, that's a really interesting thing, because when we look
S2: at this film, Spiteri and yeah, there is a bit
S2: of anti-authoritarianism there or, you know, he is anti-authority he
S2: does sort of win against all odds, against the system
S2: in many ways. It's. Yeah. Look, I think I'd agree
S2: with John. I'd. Yeah, I'd have to because he's far
S2: brighter than I am.
S1: I want to ask you now about whether there's something
S1: in your own family background that perhaps plays into your
S1: history of playing outsiders or underdogs, because you have played
S1: a lot of them. You know, I'm thinking of Doug
S1: and Cozy. I'm thinking about, I mean, there's heaps of them.
S1: There's spit. There's even, I guess the Spartan you played
S1: in 300. I mean, they're all underdogs, right? Of various
S1: varieties and also Damian, Father Damian and Malachi. But because
S1: your parents were steeped in social justice, Catholicism, as I
S1: understand it, your father was a volunteer with Saint Vincent
S1: de Paul, I believe for 50 years. You've gone on
S1: to do your own volunteer work, you know, Wayside Chapel,
S1: Leprosy Mission Australia. So I'm just wondering whether you think
S1: that family background has something to do with what seems
S1: to me to be a great empathy for people who
S1: are perhaps forgotten by society, or certainly not celebrated.
S2: Well, yeah. Look, I'm certainly the product of my upbringing,
S2: and my parents have had a huge influence on on
S2: shaping the person of who I am. What my father did. Yeah,
S2: was truly remarkable. When I, when I look back on it, he. Yeah,
S2: he devoted so much of his life to selflessly, selflessly
S2: going out at night and basically dealing with, with, um,
S2: people who have, you know, far less privileged than we were.
S2: We weren't privileged, though. We were a very we were
S2: a working class family that didn't have terribly much money,
S2: but there were people far worse off than us. And
S2: my father. Yeah. Spent a lot of time trying to
S2: assist them as best he could. The underdog thing is
S2: really interesting, and I think that actually is an Australian
S2: characteristic as well. We do root for the underdog, and
S2: that is different to North American culture where you actually
S2: celebrate success. Totally. We don't. And we have, you know,
S2: something that is not exactly the most attractive part of
S2: our culture is, you know, the tall poppy syndrome. You
S2: don't want people to get, you know, too big for
S2: their boots. We just chop them down pretty quickly. But
S2: rooting for the underdog is yeah, it's a big one.
S2: I've got to say I do. If there's a sporting
S2: event that, you know, I just come come across, I
S2: will instinctively. Yeah. Root for, root for the underdog.
S1: And I did want to ask you about your mother, though.
S1: We've spoken about your father, but I was wondering whether
S1: your mother, Kathleen, was something of a direct line into
S1: feeling empathy for people who, you know, perhaps aren't lucky
S1: enough to be born into the circumstances to achieve their dreams.
S1: Because I did read that you once told our mastheads
S1: that she was, quote, an extraordinary woman who didn't really
S1: get the opportunities she deserved. She was born during World
S1: War one. She was bright. She could have gone to university,
S1: but that wasn't her lot in life back then.
S2: Yeah, my mother was. She was she was an extraordinary woman. Yeah.
S2: Seven kids. And now, you know, I've got two kids
S2: and I honestly can't work out how she actually did it.
S2: The time management that my mother put in place was
S2: just extraordinary. Not only did she, you know, she feed
S2: and clothe? Clothe us. But she made clothes for us
S2: all kids, all of us. She'd sew stuff every winter.
S2: All of us would get a hand-knitted jumper for the winter.
S2: Every winter when I had five sisters, four of them
S2: got married. She made all the wedding dresses. She made
S2: the bridal dress. I have to ask. She made all.
S7: A seamstress.
S2: Know which is something, a skill she had. It was like,
S2: you know, back in those days, you just did it all.
S2: And she made the wedding cake for each of them. Like,
S2: I just don't know how she'd manage the time.
S1: I thought. This other anecdote I have to ask you about,
S1: because I read that she also studied ancient Greek, and
S1: there was a time where you were at a butcher
S1: with your mother, and he was swearing in Greek, because
S1: this was in Marrickville, where you grew up in the
S1: inner west of Sydney, and a lot of people spoke Greek.
S1: And your mother spoke back to him in Greek, and
S1: he dropped the sausages on the sawdust.
S7: Yeah. He did.
S2: Yeah. Yeah. He was absolutely floored that. Yeah. Somebody of
S2: her age, Anglo-Saxon, was actually speaking Greek with him.
S7: Exactly.
S2: Yeah. She was amazing. And then she. Then later in life,
S2: she hadn't gone overseas. Neither of my parents had actually
S2: got on a plane until probably well after they were 60.
S2: And then. Yeah. Never. Yeah. Not not even on one plane.
S2: Not even domestically? Yes. Um, and then my mother took
S2: it up and she would go on these incredible adventures
S2: through an adult literacy group she went away with and,
S2: you know, followed female writers throughout.
S7: Um, so she got her opportunities.
S2: Yeah, she did, but it's like, in a way, you think, oh,
S2: my God, if she she was around these days, would
S2: the what she may have achieved other than, you know,
S2: she would loved being a mother and an incredible parent.
S2: But the opportunities in terms of other things for herself.
S7: Yeah.
S1: Well, I want to wrap up and it's a bit
S1: of a tack to lift because and I guess it
S1: does touch on empathy for others and compassion because there
S1: is one element of this film which is a very
S1: strong element, and we haven't touched on it yet. And
S1: it is of course, that spit ends up in a
S1: detention center. He's been away overseas. He's been on the
S1: run for 20 years, comes back to Australia with a
S1: false passport. He's in detention with people who you know.
S1: Refugees from countries where some of them, some of them,
S1: we learn, have had just horrific experiences, suffering and murder,
S1: that they have fled. And I was just wanting to
S1: find out if this is something that you felt strongly about. And,
S1: you know, perhaps they the forgotten underdogs in Australia that
S1: maybe we should turn our sights to.
S2: Oh, undoubtedly. That was the as I mentioned to you,
S2: the very first time I read the draft of this script,
S2: I thought the reason for bringing spit back was inspired.
S2: And it has to do with, um, with where he
S2: ends up as soon as he lands in, in Australia.
S2: And the idea for that came many years ago. Chris
S2: just couldn't understand the huge hullabaloo in this country about migration.
S2: He just thought it was. He just couldn't understand it.
S2: He said, look, he said, I'm a migrant. He said,
S2: we're all migrants or we're products of migrants. He just
S2: didn't get it. So he thought, thought about it for
S2: a while and he thought, I know I'll just drop
S2: Johnny Spiteri into the middle of this and see what
S2: comes from it. And that was the that was the
S2: impetus to, to to bring spit back. And as I
S2: mentioned before, we find out that Johnny's battery, for all his,
S2: you know, quirks and flaws, you find out that that
S2: guy is is the least judgmental person and he will
S2: take anybody just, you know, for who they are. And
S2: in the film, the characters who play, um, the refugees
S2: in the film, most of them are actually refugees themselves
S2: or they are the offspring of refugees. And we held
S2: like a casting session and we met these people who
S2: literally the session began with them basically telling us their stories,
S2: which were, as you can imagine, you know, some of
S2: them quite horrific. And then we just had them improvising
S2: with each other. Every person in that film who is
S2: a refugee loved the fact that this was a comedy,
S2: which is really, really interesting. That's interesting. They said for
S2: the first time ever, they said, look, they said it
S2: humanizes us. And they were annoyed, not annoyed. But they
S2: said previous depictions of us on screen were always painted
S2: with a very broad brush stroke and nearly often sometimes
S2: deified as well. And they said, that's not the case.
S2: They said, we are the same as everybody else. We
S2: just happen to be refugees. And they love the fact that,
S2: you know, some of us are really smart, some of
S2: us are intelligence, some of us aren't, some of us
S2: are absolute idiots. And it's like, and, you know, they
S2: fought about, you know, who was going to be the
S2: biggest idiot on the screen. And they loved that. And
S2: that's been one of the great joys of the of
S2: the of seeing audiences watch this film and laugh with them.
S2: There's no there's no punching down at all in this,
S2: this film. It's not it's, you know, and there's no
S2: political message in it. We haven't made a political film.
S2: It is a comedy that actually is a unifying thing
S2: that makes us celebrate the best of humanity.
S1: Well, I think I can speak for a lot of
S1: listeners when I say we're so grateful that you do
S1: take on these roles because they help us understand humanity better.
S1: Hopefully they enable people to have a bit more compassion.
S1: So thank you so much, David, for your time.
S2: I've loved talking with you. Thank you so much.
S1: Today's episode of The Morning Edition was produced by myself
S1: and Josh towers. Our executive producer is Tammy Mills. Tom
S1: McKendrick is our head of audio. The Morning Edition is
S1: a production of The Age and The Sydney Morning Herald.
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S1: in the show. Notes. I'm Samantha Selinger. Morris. This is
S1: the morning edition. Thanks for listening.